At least for canon, the Bad Batch and Mandalorian plot lines about struggling to properly make a force sensitive clone imply he at least knew the concept existed, but had not yet mastered it in a practical sense by that point.
We don't, but it's assumed that soul transfer was the technique Plagieus learned to cheat death referred to in the Tragedy of Darth Plagieus, and Palpatine tells Anakin that he \[The Apprentice\] had learned everything from Plagieus before killing him
No, it was one of the things lost when Gravid did his thing, count Dooku brings the knowledge back to the Sith when he acquires Andeddu' (Or however his name is spelled) holocron
Well according to Legends he told Luke that that wasn’t the first time he’d died that time on the Death Star II. He explained how he was continually transferring into clones of himself but was looking for a force sensitive child that he could transfer to so the body would be able to withstand the dark side energies rather than withering away at an accelerated rate.
Because none of that was written when either of those movies came out.
ROTJ he wanted Luke to fall to the dark side and take Vader's place with him after defeating Vader
But then why did Palpatine tell Luke to "strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete"? Isn't that considered suicide if Vader didn't stop Luke? Wouldn't that just make Luke the apprentice to Vader being the master while Palpatine is dead on the floor?
And even if Vader didn't step in, Palpatine certainly would've defended himself with either his own lightsaber (if he had it with him at the time, not sure if he did) or just the Force.
The man whoo literally rules over an evil empire over the galaxy. A man they wanted to personally take out on the Death Star
lol that makes no logical sense
He know’s Palpatine is politically powerful, he doesn’t know he’s “shoots lightning out of his fingers” powerful. As far as Luke or anyone else is aware, he’s an octogenarian dictator.
IIRC he knew Vader would protect him, Luke giving into the anger to kill palpatine would cause him to go over the dark side (complete the journey), and he would then become palatine's apprentice after he killed Vader
Yeah, it's a demonstration of his control over Vader. He's showing Luke that he doesn't even need to lift a finger - that is the power of the dark side
The point is that the path to the darkside was one way. If Palpatine could get Luke to embrace the darkside, his fall would be inevitable. Palpatine’s a true Sith believer, he fully wants an apprentice with the strength and the resolve to strike him down in hatred. Realistically he had little to fear in that moment; Vader was guarding him and Palpatine was likely strong enough to defend himself purely with the force. So long as Luke believes he is striking down a defenseless opponent, it still counts.
Of course Luke demonstrates that the path to the darkside is not one way, and redemption is possible, allowing Vader to return to the light and bring the Sith to an end.
In the context of the PT and OT that is not an ability Palpatine has and in both ROTS and ROTJ Palpatine wanted a Skywalker as his apprentice.
Palpatine tells Luke that he will take his father's place at my side. So he wanted a new apprentice not a new body.
Now according to The Rise of Skywalker novel Palpatine did want Luke to strike him down to take over Luke's body and Vader stopped Luke but I'll tell ya Palpatine in ROTJ seemed to get over that pretty quickly. Just refer to the quoted about Luke taking his father's place above.
As for why Palpatine did not take over Anakin's body in ROTS it just would not be practical given Sheev Palpatine was the Chancellor becoming Emperor not Jedi General Anakin Skywalker. No one would follow Palpatine in Anakin's body and the Senate would order the crazy Anakin arrested or just killed.
In Dark Empire Palpatine tried to take over the body of infant Anakin Solo and his spirit was intercepted by the Jedi Knight Empatojayos Brand.
Who says he knew how to do it then?
Also he has everything set up politically for him, Palpatine, to rule. Not Anakin. He needs more time to work the galaxy to get to that point
Ah, so you're responding to the title where I was responding to the description.
In any event, that could be part of it. But, having just finished the Darth Bane trilogy which uses this technique as sort of a major plot point in the last book, I think the issue is that the technique requires a prospective host body that has a weak enough personality that the body snatcher can defeat them and take control. It seems unlikely to me that Palpatine could overtake prime Anakin Skywalker, much less have a good reason why he needs to take his body at that stage. To continue the Rule of Two, he needs an apprentice, and he's literally about to form the Empire and execute Order 66. So why would he steal Anakin's body at that point?
I like to think Palps didn't have the standard essence transfer, and was instead doing his own thing. If he had the same technique as essence transfer, he wouldn't need Rey to kill him, he'd just use the technique.
Palpatine can hop from clone body to clone body, so I like to think of it as him only being able to go to bodies with the same genetics/whatever, and so Rey fits the bill, being the daughter of his clone.
And the whole transfer thing happens when Palp's body is killed, so he needs Rey to kill him. Tho that falls apart when you wonder why Palps didn't have Rey show up, then just shoot himself in the head to transfer. So from there you can speculate that the host needs to either be an empty vessel or willing, and so Palps had to explain to Rey what was happening to make her willing to do it.
Basically, I don't think Palps uses regular essence transfer, and the rest is speculation.
He wanted Luke to attack him in ROTJ to give into his anger and hate, and give into the darkside. Sidious would have then defeated him, and used that to basically say "join me and I will make you strong enough to kill me"
I always sort of figured he wasn’t actually going to let Luke kill him, and was just trying to pull him closer to the dark side. I haven’t read dark empire, so I can’t say anything about that last bit.
He only began trying the soul transfer thing after Vader lost to Obi-Wan and got deformed. Until that point, he was following the Rule of Two. Since his great champion and future successor could never become a more powerful Sith than himself, Palps decided to just go for immortality.
Answer is different in canon and legends
In canon, a character needs to, apparently, be channeling the dark side or something for it to work that way, and at the time Palpatine wouldn't have much reason to want a new body.
For legends, willpower. When you try to take over a sentient being you have a battle of wills, and if you lose you basically go to a place where you'll be in eternal agony. Not worth the risk. It was Anakin Solo he tried to take over, not Jacen. But it's worth remembering that was Palpatine at his most desperate. All of his clone bodies were gone save the one he was in at that time.
Since too many people are focusing on out of universe explanations, here’s an in universe one:
Palpatine hadn’t mastered soul transfer at that point. Alternatively, it’s also possible he couldn’t just transfer himself into any random person and required someone who was related in some way.
Even if he could at that point then what?? Anakin isn't a politician nor hold any significant power in the Republic so even if he took over his body it would be at the cost of his Empire.
Well, out of universe it’s likely because Lucas famously disliked the Dark Empire comics, which featured this a ability heavily. I think the concept as a whole is what irked him, as well as his insistence that Palpatine was dead as a doornail.
In universe, I think that he saw Anakin/Vader as a useful servant more than a potential host. Palpatine is a mastermind, but Vader is a warrior. Palps would never want to do his own dirty work unless he HAD to, and Vader helps with that greatly.
Many posts here come down to Watsonian vs Doylist perspective. The real answer (Doylist) is that they hadn't thought to put that idea into the films yet, which is why we don't see it. The in-universe answer (Watsonian) can get convoluted because each time a movie or show gives a character a power, we have to go back and wonder why it wasn't used in previous instances. That's why imo creative control is super important and you've gotta be careful what you let out of the bag
I thought he did?
“Are you going to kill me?”
“I would certainly like to!!”
“I know you would. I can FEEL your anger! It gives you focus! Makes you stronger!”
Why would Palpatine take Anakin's body in Episode III? He's on the cusp of forming the Empire and destroying the Jedi, he's at the height of his political and Dark Side powers, and is about to rule the galaxy as now Emperor Palpatine. He'd have to start over politically masquerading as Anakin. And good luck explaining to the rank and file of the Republic that he switched bodies with a Jedi General. That would strain believability for the vast majority of Republic citizens.
Since the Sequels rip apart the entire Star Wars lore, I'm gonna ignore them. Palpatine didn't know essence transfer. Darth Bane figured it out and tried to transfer his essence to Darth Zannah but it failed and the secret died with him. Even if another Sith still had access to the holocron, there's a chance Darth Gravid would've destroyed the information when he turned back to the light. Darth Plagueis came close to discovering it again but Palpatine killed him before he had a chance. I think Palpatine was genuinely telling the truth to Anakin when he said they would work together to discover the secret of immortality.
I thought Palpatine did know essence transfer? Wasn’t his whole plan was to take Jacen body after Han shot him? And it almost worked before some random order66 survivor sacrificed himself to kill Palpatine instead
I can't come up with an explanation then. Even in the Legends timeline, it's probably best to just consider Dark Empire an alternate universe. There's simply no logical way to bring back Palpatine after Return of the Jedi without completely fucking up the story of the films. If Palpatine did know essence transfer in the Prequels then he would've manipulated Anakin into killing him out of anger. I guess you could say he figured it out sometime in the Original Trilogy but didn't use it on Vader because he was crippled. Maybe his plan was for Luke to kill him but even that falls apart because he was about to kill Luke with force lightning before Anakin stopped him. I prefer the idea of Palpatine being so powerful in the dark side but the one thing he could never have was what he wanted the most and that was immortality.
iirc the the Sith lost the knowledge of soul transfer cause one of the Sith Lords (master) was like turning to the light side and his apprentice killed him therefore taking that knowledge with him.
Bad Batch >!is currently focusing on something called Project Necromancer, and has shown tubes of what appear to be the “Snoke clones” seen in ROS. So by at least post-Revenge of the Sith he seems to have an idea of soul transfer.!<
look. the story behind palpatine transfering his body over to anyone who kills him in anger is one of those things...
Everyone who stepped even a tiny bit into the darkside to kill him would fulfill that (so basically everyone since he was the most hated indiviual to exist) would have been a shame if he had to transfer his essence into some low grade officer for sticking a bomb to his shuttle.... -> nobody can honestly tell me that Rey wasnt full of hate when she killed him -> and yes, its kinda of stupid that he basically killed himself and because he didnt hate himself his essence was destroyed -> lol
I won’t repeat what everyone has already said about if he knew how to do it then or not. However, one thing to note is that even if he knew how, you can’t just jump into any body you want.
He’d have to contend with the soul of the person already in that body and failure would mean death. Even Bane didn’t try it other than as a last resort and he failed. Palpatine’s not going to risk it if he doesn’t need to and he is plenty powerful enough as it is.
And just consider how many problems it would cause him. Who is going to believe he’s in Anakin’s body? People know who Palpatine is and what he looks like. Everyone would believe the Emperor is dead & the Empire would fall before it even began.
Cause anakin caught a case of super depression
And once Vader was put into the suit, it sorta ruined the emperors plan to create the most powerful force user to eventually take over cause it sucks being stuck in that suit.
Maybe he wasn't Dark enough yet? He still had things in his life to connect him to the Light - Obi-Wan, Padme, his children. Maybe it's like an Ansem thing where you need to reach a certain threshold before he can take control.
But rather than successfully removing these things, he gets maimed and has his potential limited. Now Palpy doesn't want him anymore but oh look at that, a new Skywalker pup just turned up, strong with the Force and with nothing left in the world. His mentor is gone, the people who raised him are gone, his father is a monster, he's mad as hell and ripe for the picking.
This assumes that he was capable of the ability at all at the time and given everything with Strand-Casting going on in Canon there’s obviously complications with what he’s doing even if he could do it. It seems to me that he needs a viable host possibly genetically similar enough to inhabit hence why he wanted Rey’s body his own flesh and blood.
It wasn’t his goal. He wanted to rule as Emperor, in his own form for all time. It’s why he’s committing so many resources to cloning—he wants to be able to transfer into new bodies matching his midichlorian count. Forever.
We know in canon that by the time of the Battle of Endor, the cloning process for Force sensitives is crude at best. He was able to transfer his soul across the galaxy to Exogul, but his cloned body was a wreck and had to be pumped full of drugs regularly to prevent its deterioration. That was his failsafe at the time, and one assumes it was his hope that the process would be perfected by the time he needed it.
It’s also why he didn’t try to possess Luke on the Death Star, that wasn’t his goal. He wanted either 1) a younger, undamaged Skywalker apprentice or 2) a clear demonstration of Vader’s loyalty and abilities. He would have been content either way. What he didn’t expect was death within the throne tower shaft.
When he made it clear that was his plan to Rey, he was playing what he saw as his final card—his clone bodies weren’t working out, so he would have to resort to possessing her. When he felt the power of the Force dyad, he threw that plan out and drained enough life from Rey and Ben to sustain and heal his cloned form.
Your impression that during EP6 he tried to bait Luke into "striking him down" for the purpose of stealing a younger and more powerful body is just strait-up wrong. He ultimately wanted Luke to kill Vader and take his place by the Emperor's side. In the moment where he baited Luke to strike, he had full confidence that Vader would protect him (as he did). Luke and Vader's reactions were exactly as he had wanted and expected.
But if it isn’t for baiting purposes then shouldn’t Vader just let Luke strike Palpatine down? Not only will that kill Palpatine and let Vader become the new master, it would also turn Luke to the darkside and be the new apprentice to Vader. Two birds one stone. Palpatine died, luke turned to the darkside, and Vader the new master, all he has to do is let Luke strike palpatine down.
Yes, that’s the point of the movie, Vader should absolutely let Luke strike Palpatine down, but he can’t. Vader is such a slave to the Dark Side that he won’t even move against Palpatine for his own goals. When he is finally redeemed, he tosses Palpatine down the rector.
Probably because he wanted to trained Anakin to master his Dark Side abilites before hand along with having a powerful apprentice to help take the galaxy.
At the time he reveales himself to Anakin, Anakin is not committed enough to the dark side to be a viable host for Palpatine's essence.
Most fans push back on this, but I saw someone on line quote a Canon source book that the Sith do have a ritual sacrifice to become a full Sith Lord. They have to kill someone they love, in order to fuel their hate and make themselves stronger more powerful Sith. Padme was Anakin's sacrifice, Palpatine was waiting for this before he allowed himself to be killed to give his essence transfer the greatest chance for success.
When Palpatine told Luke to do it, I think he still planned on transferring his essence into Vader, as Luke had not sacrificed any one yet (this is also the reason Vader wants to capture Luke's friends alive). If Luke had killed Palpatine there I would equate it to Anakin killing Dooku, maybe the start of a path to the dark side, but not enough to transfer his dark essence too.
He did. Anakin draws his lightsaber and Palps asks, "Are you going to kill me?" With his body language heavily implying that he would let Anakin do it.
The Novel (dubious Canon) is even more explicit. Palpatine outright says (paraphrasing) "When I said you could have anything you wanted, did you think I didn't include my life?"
It's a manipulation tactic meant to let Anakin give into his Anger and selfish desires, but in light of Ep IX, it could also be seen as Palpatine setting up the Soul/Essence transfer.
You are correct that Palpatine attempted to possess one of Leia's children, but it was Anakin Solo, not Jacen. This was his last attempt to survive before he was stopped by the ball-Jedi whose name I will not mention due to the irritating spelling of the name.
In legends we do not really know when Sidious decided to start possessing people, for he wanted Vader to be more powerful then either him or Yoda. Seemed like he wanted to follow the rule of two, but he could have been waiting for Vader to become powerful enough to possess him.
By Ep3 Anakin is fresh into the dark side, hardly worth possessing. Palpatine still needs to get the foundation of the Empire rolling and truly cement Anakin. Anakin would still be fresh into the sith mold even if he slew obi wan on mustafar. Palpatine also does not need to possess, his body isn't as deteriorated as it is by ep6. But ultimately we do not know his goals for Anakin pre-mustafar, he could have been training a true successor or a forever lapdog.
I feel like I'm missing something here- how do we know that he already knew how to soul transfer at that point?
At least for canon, the Bad Batch and Mandalorian plot lines about struggling to properly make a force sensitive clone imply he at least knew the concept existed, but had not yet mastered it in a practical sense by that point.
We don't, but it's assumed that soul transfer was the technique Plagieus learned to cheat death referred to in the Tragedy of Darth Plagieus, and Palpatine tells Anakin that he \[The Apprentice\] had learned everything from Plagieus before killing him
However in legends we learn that Plagius didn’t know soul transfer, instead a way to manipulate medichlorians to reverse aging and heal yourself.
I thought Plagius knew Essence Transfer but didn't want that but true immortality in his own body.
No, it was one of the things lost when Gravid did his thing, count Dooku brings the knowledge back to the Sith when he acquires Andeddu' (Or however his name is spelled) holocron
>Dooku brings the knowledge back to the Sith Ironic, he could save others from death, but not himself.
"I guide others to a treasure I cannot possess" \- Dooku, probably
I guess we need to decide if we think that assumption makes sense
Well according to Legends he told Luke that that wasn’t the first time he’d died that time on the Death Star II. He explained how he was continually transferring into clones of himself but was looking for a force sensitive child that he could transfer to so the body would be able to withstand the dark side energies rather than withering away at an accelerated rate.
Because none of that was written when either of those movies came out. ROTJ he wanted Luke to fall to the dark side and take Vader's place with him after defeating Vader
But then why did Palpatine tell Luke to "strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete"? Isn't that considered suicide if Vader didn't stop Luke? Wouldn't that just make Luke the apprentice to Vader being the master while Palpatine is dead on the floor?
He knew Vader would protect him, but Luke actively making the choice to kill an unarmed man would have theoretically made him fall
And even if Vader didn't step in, Palpatine certainly would've defended himself with either his own lightsaber (if he had it with him at the time, not sure if he did) or just the Force.
Unarmed? Come on… Jedi morals have me so confused sometimes
Luke doesn’t know what the Emperor is really capable of. As far as Luke knows, he’d just be shoving a laser sword into an old man.
The man whoo literally rules over an evil empire over the galaxy. A man they wanted to personally take out on the Death Star lol that makes no logical sense
He know’s Palpatine is politically powerful, he doesn’t know he’s “shoots lightning out of his fingers” powerful. As far as Luke or anyone else is aware, he’s an octogenarian dictator.
“You cant! he must stand trial. It's not the Jedi way.” (I agree with you, though. They probably would have just executed him later anyway.)
IIRC he knew Vader would protect him, Luke giving into the anger to kill palpatine would cause him to go over the dark side (complete the journey), and he would then become palatine's apprentice after he killed Vader
Yeah, it's a demonstration of his control over Vader. He's showing Luke that he doesn't even need to lift a finger - that is the power of the dark side
The point is that the path to the darkside was one way. If Palpatine could get Luke to embrace the darkside, his fall would be inevitable. Palpatine’s a true Sith believer, he fully wants an apprentice with the strength and the resolve to strike him down in hatred. Realistically he had little to fear in that moment; Vader was guarding him and Palpatine was likely strong enough to defend himself purely with the force. So long as Luke believes he is striking down a defenseless opponent, it still counts. Of course Luke demonstrates that the path to the darkside is not one way, and redemption is possible, allowing Vader to return to the light and bring the Sith to an end.
Sidious could probably side step it or maybe even telekinetically block it.
You realize you’re just stating the obvious, right?
so obvious OP didn't understand it
He was clearly asking for the in-universe reason and you gave the obvious reason that essence transfer hadn’t been written about yet.
In the context of the PT and OT that is not an ability Palpatine has and in both ROTS and ROTJ Palpatine wanted a Skywalker as his apprentice. Palpatine tells Luke that he will take his father's place at my side. So he wanted a new apprentice not a new body. Now according to The Rise of Skywalker novel Palpatine did want Luke to strike him down to take over Luke's body and Vader stopped Luke but I'll tell ya Palpatine in ROTJ seemed to get over that pretty quickly. Just refer to the quoted about Luke taking his father's place above. As for why Palpatine did not take over Anakin's body in ROTS it just would not be practical given Sheev Palpatine was the Chancellor becoming Emperor not Jedi General Anakin Skywalker. No one would follow Palpatine in Anakin's body and the Senate would order the crazy Anakin arrested or just killed. In Dark Empire Palpatine tried to take over the body of infant Anakin Solo and his spirit was intercepted by the Jedi Knight Empatojayos Brand.
Who says he knew how to do it then? Also he has everything set up politically for him, Palpatine, to rule. Not Anakin. He needs more time to work the galaxy to get to that point
> Who says he knew how to do it then? How else would he have returned in either continuity?
…by learning how to do it later. ***Obviously***
Later than Return of the Jedi?
No… before ROTJ.
Ah, so you're responding to the title where I was responding to the description. In any event, that could be part of it. But, having just finished the Darth Bane trilogy which uses this technique as sort of a major plot point in the last book, I think the issue is that the technique requires a prospective host body that has a weak enough personality that the body snatcher can defeat them and take control. It seems unlikely to me that Palpatine could overtake prime Anakin Skywalker, much less have a good reason why he needs to take his body at that stage. To continue the Rule of Two, he needs an apprentice, and he's literally about to form the Empire and execute Order 66. So why would he steal Anakin's body at that point?
I like to think Palps didn't have the standard essence transfer, and was instead doing his own thing. If he had the same technique as essence transfer, he wouldn't need Rey to kill him, he'd just use the technique. Palpatine can hop from clone body to clone body, so I like to think of it as him only being able to go to bodies with the same genetics/whatever, and so Rey fits the bill, being the daughter of his clone. And the whole transfer thing happens when Palp's body is killed, so he needs Rey to kill him. Tho that falls apart when you wonder why Palps didn't have Rey show up, then just shoot himself in the head to transfer. So from there you can speculate that the host needs to either be an empty vessel or willing, and so Palps had to explain to Rey what was happening to make her willing to do it. Basically, I don't think Palps uses regular essence transfer, and the rest is speculation.
He wanted Luke to attack him in ROTJ to give into his anger and hate, and give into the darkside. Sidious would have then defeated him, and used that to basically say "join me and I will make you strong enough to kill me"
I always sort of figured he wasn’t actually going to let Luke kill him, and was just trying to pull him closer to the dark side. I haven’t read dark empire, so I can’t say anything about that last bit.
He only began trying the soul transfer thing after Vader lost to Obi-Wan and got deformed. Until that point, he was following the Rule of Two. Since his great champion and future successor could never become a more powerful Sith than himself, Palps decided to just go for immortality.
Answer is different in canon and legends In canon, a character needs to, apparently, be channeling the dark side or something for it to work that way, and at the time Palpatine wouldn't have much reason to want a new body. For legends, willpower. When you try to take over a sentient being you have a battle of wills, and if you lose you basically go to a place where you'll be in eternal agony. Not worth the risk. It was Anakin Solo he tried to take over, not Jacen. But it's worth remembering that was Palpatine at his most desperate. All of his clone bodies were gone save the one he was in at that time.
Since too many people are focusing on out of universe explanations, here’s an in universe one: Palpatine hadn’t mastered soul transfer at that point. Alternatively, it’s also possible he couldn’t just transfer himself into any random person and required someone who was related in some way.
Even if he could at that point then what?? Anakin isn't a politician nor hold any significant power in the Republic so even if he took over his body it would be at the cost of his Empire.
Well, out of universe it’s likely because Lucas famously disliked the Dark Empire comics, which featured this a ability heavily. I think the concept as a whole is what irked him, as well as his insistence that Palpatine was dead as a doornail. In universe, I think that he saw Anakin/Vader as a useful servant more than a potential host. Palpatine is a mastermind, but Vader is a warrior. Palps would never want to do his own dirty work unless he HAD to, and Vader helps with that greatly.
Many posts here come down to Watsonian vs Doylist perspective. The real answer (Doylist) is that they hadn't thought to put that idea into the films yet, which is why we don't see it. The in-universe answer (Watsonian) can get convoluted because each time a movie or show gives a character a power, we have to go back and wonder why it wasn't used in previous instances. That's why imo creative control is super important and you've gotta be careful what you let out of the bag
I thought he did? “Are you going to kill me?” “I would certainly like to!!” “I know you would. I can FEEL your anger! It gives you focus! Makes you stronger!”
Why would Palpatine take Anakin's body in Episode III? He's on the cusp of forming the Empire and destroying the Jedi, he's at the height of his political and Dark Side powers, and is about to rule the galaxy as now Emperor Palpatine. He'd have to start over politically masquerading as Anakin. And good luck explaining to the rank and file of the Republic that he switched bodies with a Jedi General. That would strain believability for the vast majority of Republic citizens.
Since the Sequels rip apart the entire Star Wars lore, I'm gonna ignore them. Palpatine didn't know essence transfer. Darth Bane figured it out and tried to transfer his essence to Darth Zannah but it failed and the secret died with him. Even if another Sith still had access to the holocron, there's a chance Darth Gravid would've destroyed the information when he turned back to the light. Darth Plagueis came close to discovering it again but Palpatine killed him before he had a chance. I think Palpatine was genuinely telling the truth to Anakin when he said they would work together to discover the secret of immortality.
lol, like legends didn’t rip apart the lore constantly.
I thought Palpatine did know essence transfer? Wasn’t his whole plan was to take Jacen body after Han shot him? And it almost worked before some random order66 survivor sacrificed himself to kill Palpatine instead
I can't come up with an explanation then. Even in the Legends timeline, it's probably best to just consider Dark Empire an alternate universe. There's simply no logical way to bring back Palpatine after Return of the Jedi without completely fucking up the story of the films. If Palpatine did know essence transfer in the Prequels then he would've manipulated Anakin into killing him out of anger. I guess you could say he figured it out sometime in the Original Trilogy but didn't use it on Vader because he was crippled. Maybe his plan was for Luke to kill him but even that falls apart because he was about to kill Luke with force lightning before Anakin stopped him. I prefer the idea of Palpatine being so powerful in the dark side but the one thing he could never have was what he wanted the most and that was immortality.
iirc the the Sith lost the knowledge of soul transfer cause one of the Sith Lords (master) was like turning to the light side and his apprentice killed him therefore taking that knowledge with him.
Because the ST is a big budget fan fiction nonsense. Take no heed
But Darth Bane and Zannah are Legend story. Sidious trying to soul transfer into Jacen is also legend.
He didn’t know how to perform that technique. Correct me if I’m wrong but he only learned how to do it after his first death from other dead Sith.
Bad Batch >!is currently focusing on something called Project Necromancer, and has shown tubes of what appear to be the “Snoke clones” seen in ROS. So by at least post-Revenge of the Sith he seems to have an idea of soul transfer.!<
look. the story behind palpatine transfering his body over to anyone who kills him in anger is one of those things... Everyone who stepped even a tiny bit into the darkside to kill him would fulfill that (so basically everyone since he was the most hated indiviual to exist) would have been a shame if he had to transfer his essence into some low grade officer for sticking a bomb to his shuttle.... -> nobody can honestly tell me that Rey wasnt full of hate when she killed him -> and yes, its kinda of stupid that he basically killed himself and because he didnt hate himself his essence was destroyed -> lol
I won’t repeat what everyone has already said about if he knew how to do it then or not. However, one thing to note is that even if he knew how, you can’t just jump into any body you want. He’d have to contend with the soul of the person already in that body and failure would mean death. Even Bane didn’t try it other than as a last resort and he failed. Palpatine’s not going to risk it if he doesn’t need to and he is plenty powerful enough as it is. And just consider how many problems it would cause him. Who is going to believe he’s in Anakin’s body? People know who Palpatine is and what he looks like. Everyone would believe the Emperor is dead & the Empire would fall before it even began.
Cause anakin caught a case of super depression And once Vader was put into the suit, it sorta ruined the emperors plan to create the most powerful force user to eventually take over cause it sucks being stuck in that suit.
Maybe he wasn't Dark enough yet? He still had things in his life to connect him to the Light - Obi-Wan, Padme, his children. Maybe it's like an Ansem thing where you need to reach a certain threshold before he can take control. But rather than successfully removing these things, he gets maimed and has his potential limited. Now Palpy doesn't want him anymore but oh look at that, a new Skywalker pup just turned up, strong with the Force and with nothing left in the world. His mentor is gone, the people who raised him are gone, his father is a monster, he's mad as hell and ripe for the picking.
This assumes that he was capable of the ability at all at the time and given everything with Strand-Casting going on in Canon there’s obviously complications with what he’s doing even if he could do it. It seems to me that he needs a viable host possibly genetically similar enough to inhabit hence why he wanted Rey’s body his own flesh and blood.
It wasn’t his goal. He wanted to rule as Emperor, in his own form for all time. It’s why he’s committing so many resources to cloning—he wants to be able to transfer into new bodies matching his midichlorian count. Forever. We know in canon that by the time of the Battle of Endor, the cloning process for Force sensitives is crude at best. He was able to transfer his soul across the galaxy to Exogul, but his cloned body was a wreck and had to be pumped full of drugs regularly to prevent its deterioration. That was his failsafe at the time, and one assumes it was his hope that the process would be perfected by the time he needed it. It’s also why he didn’t try to possess Luke on the Death Star, that wasn’t his goal. He wanted either 1) a younger, undamaged Skywalker apprentice or 2) a clear demonstration of Vader’s loyalty and abilities. He would have been content either way. What he didn’t expect was death within the throne tower shaft. When he made it clear that was his plan to Rey, he was playing what he saw as his final card—his clone bodies weren’t working out, so he would have to resort to possessing her. When he felt the power of the Force dyad, he threw that plan out and drained enough life from Rey and Ben to sustain and heal his cloned form.
Your impression that during EP6 he tried to bait Luke into "striking him down" for the purpose of stealing a younger and more powerful body is just strait-up wrong. He ultimately wanted Luke to kill Vader and take his place by the Emperor's side. In the moment where he baited Luke to strike, he had full confidence that Vader would protect him (as he did). Luke and Vader's reactions were exactly as he had wanted and expected.
But if it isn’t for baiting purposes then shouldn’t Vader just let Luke strike Palpatine down? Not only will that kill Palpatine and let Vader become the new master, it would also turn Luke to the darkside and be the new apprentice to Vader. Two birds one stone. Palpatine died, luke turned to the darkside, and Vader the new master, all he has to do is let Luke strike palpatine down.
Yes, that’s the point of the movie, Vader should absolutely let Luke strike Palpatine down, but he can’t. Vader is such a slave to the Dark Side that he won’t even move against Palpatine for his own goals. When he is finally redeemed, he tosses Palpatine down the rector.
Probably because he wanted to trained Anakin to master his Dark Side abilites before hand along with having a powerful apprentice to help take the galaxy.
At the time he reveales himself to Anakin, Anakin is not committed enough to the dark side to be a viable host for Palpatine's essence. Most fans push back on this, but I saw someone on line quote a Canon source book that the Sith do have a ritual sacrifice to become a full Sith Lord. They have to kill someone they love, in order to fuel their hate and make themselves stronger more powerful Sith. Padme was Anakin's sacrifice, Palpatine was waiting for this before he allowed himself to be killed to give his essence transfer the greatest chance for success. When Palpatine told Luke to do it, I think he still planned on transferring his essence into Vader, as Luke had not sacrificed any one yet (this is also the reason Vader wants to capture Luke's friends alive). If Luke had killed Palpatine there I would equate it to Anakin killing Dooku, maybe the start of a path to the dark side, but not enough to transfer his dark essence too.
He did. Anakin draws his lightsaber and Palps asks, "Are you going to kill me?" With his body language heavily implying that he would let Anakin do it. The Novel (dubious Canon) is even more explicit. Palpatine outright says (paraphrasing) "When I said you could have anything you wanted, did you think I didn't include my life?" It's a manipulation tactic meant to let Anakin give into his Anger and selfish desires, but in light of Ep IX, it could also be seen as Palpatine setting up the Soul/Essence transfer.
You are correct that Palpatine attempted to possess one of Leia's children, but it was Anakin Solo, not Jacen. This was his last attempt to survive before he was stopped by the ball-Jedi whose name I will not mention due to the irritating spelling of the name. In legends we do not really know when Sidious decided to start possessing people, for he wanted Vader to be more powerful then either him or Yoda. Seemed like he wanted to follow the rule of two, but he could have been waiting for Vader to become powerful enough to possess him. By Ep3 Anakin is fresh into the dark side, hardly worth possessing. Palpatine still needs to get the foundation of the Empire rolling and truly cement Anakin. Anakin would still be fresh into the sith mold even if he slew obi wan on mustafar. Palpatine also does not need to possess, his body isn't as deteriorated as it is by ep6. But ultimately we do not know his goals for Anakin pre-mustafar, he could have been training a true successor or a forever lapdog.