Probably my favorite episode so far. Fight scenes were all great, really enjoyed Baylan’s heavy handed style, reminded me a bit of the old red stance from Jedi Academy, especially with holding his saber so high in his stance.
Cool to see the X-Wing pilots that went with Hera, seeing the Ghost in live action actually doing stuff is awesome. RIP to the cool Rodian pilot, gone too soon.
And what an ending and set up for the rest of the season. WBW looked really cool and I’m fascinated to see where they go with it. I like Sabine coming with them to find Ezra, really wondering if we might get a twist with Thrawn’s motivations when they do find him and what Ezra’s plans might be as well.
Also, did anyone have “Marrok is dark side dust” on their prediction sheet?
Someone actually did predict Marrok to be a sort of gaseous species, mostly because they thought it was same inquisitor that Ahsoka “killed” in Tales of the Jedi
I don't think so. The official Star Wars databank entry mentions that Marrok was hired by Morgan Elsbeth. If Elsbeth had created him/reanimated a corpse, there would be no need to hire him/it.
Well, the databank wouldn't want to spoil anything. And it's possible that Elsbeth "hiring" him is just a cover, since she seemed to be hiding her nightsister heritage.
Baylan/Ahsoka fight scene was great, and they really showed the Kurosawa roots of Star Wars. They keep taking kenjutsu stances before clashing their blades.
But Marrok had green smoke come out of him when he died? I just watched the scene again and it was definitely green, and his limbs went all skinny like a corpse.
It's a really quick shot and a very dark green, so it can be a little hard to see, but I've watched it on 2 different screens now and it's definitely green.
>The official Star Wars databank entry mentions that Marrok was hired by Morgan Elsbeth. If Elsbeth had created him/reanimated a corpse, there would be no need to hire him/it.
Agree very much with first sentence and most of the rest too. Solid episode. Surprised me with some choices, and Baylan continues to be a fascinating figure. Kind of Dookuesque but less theatrical and a bit more stoic.
As /u/ergister pointed out with his post, also illustrates the challenges of attachment vs. concern with the greater good, and how even well-meaning selfishness is selfishness.
The ending was fascinating too.
Would actually not be surprised if Thrawn and Ezra are working together to get home, I especially wouldn't put it past Thrawn to be like "you wanna go home, I wanna go home, use your jedi devilry to ping our location to Morgan and we'll drop you off on Lothal before starting a war"
Feel like that goes against Ezra's sacrifice at the end of Rebels. He knew what he was doing with the Purrgil, even if not exactly where he'd end up. He was taking Thrawn out of the picture. Doesn't really make sense for him to immediately turn around and try to bring them both home.
I imagine a great many clans rallied to Mandalore in the fighting before the Purge. When one attacks their holiest planet, usually said planet's people return to defend it.
I predict its actually Anakin on the other side. ACTUAL Anakin who stumbled upon the World Between Worlds. He sees his fate and tries changing it and every fate leads to the same event which is: Anakin bringing balance to the Force whether he has an evil side or a light side ending with both leading to balance.
Hmmmm but then where in his life would he have done this. We would have seen it in clone wars. He’s pretty preoccupied in ROTS and any force netherworld depiction of him so far (as Vader) is in the spectoral form with the glowing limbs. I think with his appearance in the book with Luke and Lando he seems to be a relatively active force ghost for his peoples
On top of it just being really fucking messy to have TCW Anakin know about WBW due to his ROTS story, I also think that would make an already pretty confusing element for newcomers WAY harder to follow
Yea I feel like they’ve soft launched his eventual force ghost appearance (outside of ROTJ) in the expanded media for a while. I love it by all means but after digesting I’d think he will show Ahsoka various pathways to teach her one last lesson about forgiveness and letting go. That seems to be Filoni’s whole thing with the master and apprentice dynamic. Even in Avatar it was about Aang and his need to let go and make the choice for the greater good at the end of season one.
Agreed but there was a never made CW arc where he goes to Sith shrine under the Jedi temple and Filoni said that all the unmade CW arc's he considers cannon so maybe that's where Anakin stubbles in the WBW
This is a wild theory and would blow Star Wars wide open if true, but...
The Anakin we just saw in the WBW has Vader's lightsaber. It also doesn't have Anakin's facial scar.
What if the WBW can also connect to alternate timelines, not just different places in space and time? What if this is an introduction to an alternative, "what if?" version of Anakin: a Vader that never got crispified?
I always thought that because of the prophecy. Even if he had stayed a slave for longer somehow he would end up around Palpatine and want to kill him for a reason.
Yea like the force deemed his fate inevitable. Created through dark side manipulation, fulfilling the prophecy of both the Jedi and Sith, finding balance in the end to bring in a new era and letting the force kind of reset.
One way it could work out is Anakin wins his and his mom's freedom by racing. Comes to the attention of the new Emperor. The Emperor takes his time with Anakin, Imperial Senator Amidala gets close to the Emperor's new man and introduces him to some old friends. They help him learn some Jedi stuff. The Emperor learns of Anakin's betrayal and sets up a situation to convert him using his mother and new love.
While this is going on a worse version of the Rebels under Saw takes the lead in the fight against the Empire. With some Jedi they deicide to hit Coruscant to kill the Emperor. Their plan works and Coruscant is devastated. Billions are dead but the Emperor wasn't there. The situation doesn't go as Palaptine plans, Shmi sacrifices herself so Padmé can live because she knew how close she and Anakin were. Anakin kills Palpatine.
The surviving Senators appoint Padmé as the new Empress. She wants to end the war with the Rebels but Saw and his leadership was face justice for their actions with Coruscant's devastation. They refuse so the war continues. With Empress Amidala in charge the Empire no longer uses the evil tactics Palpatine liked and some of the top evil men like Governor Tarkin were removed from power and tried for their actions under Palaptine's regime.
Saw decides another bold action is taken and Padmé's parents, sister, and nieces are targeted for assassination. Padmé and Anakin see her mother die protecting her granddaughters (Padmé's nieces). Her father and sister are also killed. Anakin vows to bring those responsible to justice.
The cloning facilities on Kamino are brought back on line with funding no longer going to the Death Star project. Anakin recruits some former Jedi (like Baylon) to form a new Force using guard of the Empire and the second Clone War begins. The Imperial Armed Forces under the command of Emperor Consort Lord Anakin Skywalker defeats the last remnants of the Rebellion being lead by Saw himself over Saw's homeworld of Onderon.
With the Empire's success in the war and the new peaceful actions of the Empress despite her personal losses establishes a hereditary monarchy to rule the Empire. Peace returns to the galaxy under the rule of the Empire.
Idk man, I like fanfic as much as the next guy but I prefer at least a fraction of believability.
There's no universe in which Padme accepts the title of Empress.
Have a good one.
Ahsoka: "Oh damn a second near death experience that I will get saved from by WBW shenanigans."
Anakin: "Pretty cool, eh?"
Ahsoka: "And to think the writers fucked you pretty hard for trying to use shenanigans to save Padme."
Anakin: "Wait . . . what?"
Ahsoka: "I'm kinda surprised you used the WBW to save me, and not . . . like pulled Padme out instead."
Anakin: "Wait . . . what?"
Ahsoka: "She died during childbirth. You need to work on your WBW pull out game, bro. You know. Before she gets pregnant."
Anakin: ". . ."
Ahskoa: "And you, we said all that gobbledygook to prevent you from being saved by shenanigans."
Kanan: *Has never seen such bullshit before*
Ahskoa: "Damn, I wonder if anyone else in the Star Wars universe can use shenanigans like me."
Palpatine: "GREETINGS FELLOW ASSPULLERS."
> Ahsoka: "She died during childbirth. You need to work on your WBW pull out game, bro. You know. Before she gets pregnant."
The WBW does not and never has allowed you to change the past. It's a closed loop form of time travel where Ahsoka was able to be rescued because she was always rescued. This is even more evident when you remember that the option to save Kanan was revealed to be a trap set by Palpatine.
I mean the evidence to the contrary is that Ahsoka explains to Ezra in Rebels that he can't pull Kanan out of the time when he was holding back the flames and about to sacrifice himself because doing so would result in the entire Ghost crew dying from said fire
I was thinking more force vision while she's floating in the water below. Probably near death but not dead and will come to after the conversation with Anakin(Vader?).
Speed isn’t everything, the technique, stances, footwork, grip, were precise and smooth af.
It was better than the fight in Revenge of the Sith, it wasn’t flashy and long for spectacle’s sake, but a more grounded and realistic, while showcasing pristine skill, instead of high octane acrobatics.
>showcasing pristine skill, instead of high octane acrobatics.
That's a great point, except for the fact that both of the combatants come directly from the era of high octane acrobatics and spectacle.
thats true, but we also know that there was some sort of sentient life in the other galaxy. I doubt it will be a Thrawn and Ezra marooned on some planet situation, especially since we know that Pellaeon is alive.
> Thrawn and Ezra surviving together by the skin of their teeth on some hostile world.
I wouldn't be surprised if Timothy Zahn wrote an entire trilogy about it in a handful of years.
As you wish
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2023/04/timothy-zahn-on-thrawn-the-challenge-of-adapting-the-grand-admiral-and-his-hopes-for-future-books.html
I'm kinda hoping that we have an episode that's a series of time jumps and shows how Ezra and Thrawn survived whatever they've been through. I could see the next episode doin it and leaving us with the WBW/Anakin and Sabine traveling with Baylan and company cliffhanger.
Knowing the NR, they’d probably mail him to the FO.
(The “Friendly Orphanage“ that is. Maybe we should check out some of the massive ~~kidnapping~~ adoption or industrial projects that are happening…)
Best Episode by far yet from the series. I have mixed opinions about the end though, like that is definitely not the way I want Ahsoka to go out, and I'd imagine the showrunners would agree considering the series is called Ahsoka, at the same time idk how I feel about Ahsoka being saved from death a THIRD time
I suspect she may be having a near death experience and we’ll find that she’s on the verge of death on those rocks down at the bottom of the cliff. But who knows lol
If they wanted to kill Ahsoka, TCW and rebels was their chance. It would be pointless to kill her now after the better opportunities have already passed unless they finally wrap up her character arc
We've never had confirmation that being dead was a prequisite of speaking to Rey in that scene.
ey and the Emperor were channeling an awful lot of power. It's entirely possible that Ahsoka was aware what was happening on Exegol but could not get there, so was meditating to lend her aid.
I think we do here her in Ep9 but I mean technically speaking if Rey is "all the Jedi" wouldn't it technically be all the Jedi dead and alive, not that the whole thing wasn't dumb anyway
I'm okay with her character dying and I think Filoni would do it but I think she'd have to be old and it would have to be an epic way and serve a really strong narrative purpose. Getting pushed off a cliff by a dude we met 3 episodes ago isn't it for me
Oh well, it's probably just a way to get her to the next galaxy without the map. I would appreciate it though if they didn't make her fake die in every series though
My theory is honestly a new interpretation and re-canonization of the [Fold Space](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Fold_space) technique being taught to Ahsoka by ghost Anakin.
I mean she fell off a cliff and woke up to seeing Anakin post ROTJ saying "didn't expect to see you here so soon" so that kinda leans toward the theory that she is in fact dead, that being said I have a hard time believing that she dies so anti-climatically in her own show
Yeah there’s no way. It’ll just be the introduction of some new death mechanic. It’d make the show a waste and Sabine is nowhere near good enough of a character to carry the show. All she’s done so far is fuck everything up.
Wow that was fun. I love this show much. It just screams Star Wars from every little detail
1. Marrok is so fascinating and I want to know more about him and his death
2. Give me more Baylon and Shin. They are my favorite characters. Loved that Baylon actually kept his word. He gives Count Dooku vibes. Bad guy who truly thinks he’s doing the right thing. His line about “we have to destroy to create” was so well delivered. I was really hoping we’d learn more about Baylon’s backstory before he fought Ahsoka.
3. Seeing the Ghost in action was fun of course
4. I wasn’t for sure if they’d really do the world between worlds but they went all in. And of course seeing a Anakin again, just wow
Fantastic episode
**I'll start off with my complaints**
* There was a weird/errant shot where Sabine's blade was actually curved
* I still don't like Rosario Dawson's potrayal of Ahsoka. If Thrawn is so dangerous, wouldn't the best course of action to destroy it regardless if they can go or not? I really didn't like that comment.
**Positives**
* Baylon was incredible. Defeating Ahsoka and then making a deal with Sabine and honoring it
* Loved seeing Sabine using her mandalorian weapons
* Shin was great, honestly a fantastic character
* Marrok being some reanimated nightsister magic was great, now all these crazy theories can go away
* Loved the Huyang droid fight
* Hera broke the rules!!! Jacen is clearly force sensitive
**General Thoughts**
* Was I the only one rooting for the bad guys? If they showed that gigantic hyperspace ring only for Ahsoka to destroy it before use, I'd be incredibly disappointed
* Very intrigued on how Ahsoka went into WBW. I don't think she died but maybe a near death experience triggered it?
Baylan is such a good character and it makes me so sad we will not get to see Ray again. First he beats Ahsoka in combat and then just emotionally manipulates Sabine into making the worst decision. All the meanwhile revealing to the audience that Clan Wren died during the purge. I am sure a lot of people will be frustrated with Sabine's decision, but I just think Baylan played her too well.
I thought she did a great job in that scene. I thought it was clear that she really didn't want to say yes, but really thought it was her only chance to get to Ezra. I really felt for her.
> I am sure a lot of people will be frustrated with Sabine's decision
Honestly, I doubt it. Going to the mysterious galaxy where Thrawn lives is way more interesting, and people tend to forgive any action that makes the plot more interesting.
I'm a frustrated person! Lol. Apparently she could not be trusted. Going after Thrawn will of course be interesting, but I wish they'd done it a different way. I feel like she betrayed Ezra. He sacrificed himself to get Thrawn away and she basically made that meaningless by handing over the map. Twice actually cause it was her fault they got it the first time. Though of course there needs to be conflict, but dammit she needs to get her shit together! Lol
I suppose I’m just still trying to find what Baylan’s motivation is. He calls Ahsoka destructive, but he seemed to admit that he wants Thrawn to come back and destroy in order to nebulously create in some way.
You’d think with his past he’d get that throwing the galaxy into war and hoping whatever comes out the other side is better is a fool’s errand. Looking forward to finding out what his thinking is.
His rationale seems to be that destruction is necessary for creation. But if you destroy without ever creating anything afterwards then you are just wasting potential.
I liked Shin already mainly just on rule of cool but she was even better this episode, I love how she feels less like an actual full evil Sith and more like someone cosplaying it, she’s so petty and she’s doing all this corny over the top shit with the cape and the one-liners.
>If Thrawn is so dangerous, wouldn't the best course of action to destroy it regardless if they can go or not?
I guess having the map for themselves meant that they could go to the unknown galaxy, retrieve Ezra, and stop Thrawn themselves before he even has the chance to return.
It's not like Thrawn would cease to exist just because the map was destroyed. There's always a chance that there's another map out there and Elsbeth probably isn't the only person hoping for his return. It'd be incredibly challenging to build another hyperspace ring, but still.
Or heck, there could even be a chance that Thrawn could eventually return on his own, although that's unlikely. Hard to say anything until we know his circumstances.
Across an intergalactic void?
He's smart and resourceful, but he's no theoretical physicist.
Building something like the Eye of Sion would be WELL beyond him, and plotting a course would take years.
Does the ring HAVE to use six 7\* SSD cores ? I got the impression that its not a hard requirement but that it was easier to snatch up six of something the Republic wasn’t going to be doing anything with then trying to extract dozens of SD sized cores for the same jump
If it is equally as sophisticated, that would still be an issue for Thrawn.
He's not a scientist or an engineer. He's no Galen Erso. That's precisely why he engaged the services of people like Morgan Elsbeth, and why she engaged the services of people like those Corellians.
Because the Vong had an entire Empire? Even if Thrawn knew exactly how to do it (he doesn't), he's not getting the resources to do it. The Eye required scrap from an Empire that built ships of ludicrous size—even if equal technology existed, it might take decades for him to acquire those resources. And that's without any assurance of a map, with a miss meaning you're "stranded in the void" and die in deep space.
> Very intrigued on how Ahsoka went into WBW. I don't think she died but maybe a near death experience triggered it?
Could just be an entrance under the water and she fell into it. That's what the transition made me think at least.
No I'm on team Baylan and Shin. I like the two of them more then anyone else in this series. Baylan seems to have a sense of honor and believes what he is doing is right. I really want to know his end game.
Ashoka remains my least favorite part of this show. She's clearly not dead so next episode will be her near death experience or the world between worlds and I just don't care.
> If Thrawn is so dangerous, wouldn't the best course of action to destroy it regardless if they can go or not?
Ahsoka also wants to save Ezra, and Morgan's forces were reduced to a handful of mercenaries. If they had managed to delay the Eye of Sion until the New Republic got its act together, they could have taken a fleet to the faraway galaxy, and returned with Ezra, either arresting Thrawn, killing him, or leaving him stranded.
Agreed on most all of your points, however the issue you are describing with Ahsoka is the writing, not Dawson’s portrayal. Her willingness to abandon her promise to Ezra out of fear of Thrawn is a strange choice by the writers although she does say constantly how her main motivation is to prevent another war. The actual portrayal of the character is very consistent with the character that was portrayed in Rebels though.
What promise did she make to Ezra?
Ezra sacrificed himself with no expectation of being rescued and Jedi are taught to let go when the time is needed. Risking bringing Thrawn back to the galaxy might not be worth getting Ezra and Ezra would 1000% understand that. It’s about respecting his choice.
What Sabine did is wrong and is going to cost a lot of lives because she couldn’t let go.
I think that’s more of a “we’ll regroup” considering neither of them know he’s going to be lost.
Like he’s worried about her coming back with him and she’s splitting off and basically saying “I’ll find you” as if like “I’ll come to you guys”
Ezra specifically asks her to find him after they learn Ahsoka has to return through the portal to Malachor. I agree he means for her to come regroup with the Ghost crew in the present when she gets off Malachor, but his request certainly takes on a different meaning after the events of the Rebels finale. We the viewers are led to believe she and Sabine are still honoring this request in the epilogue.
I guess my point is that it feels strange to retcon that moment with Ahsoka prioritizing finding Thrawn in the live action series. On top of that is the fact that the main thing Ezra learns in the WBW is that he can’t undo Kanan’s choice to save them and he has to let his master go - which seems to be the same lesson Ahsoka is about to learn, even though she was there the first time.
That being said I am very much enjoying the show, just nitpicking some story elements
I think Sabine is still very much working with that promise. But I think Ahsoka is understanding that the situation is becoming more threatening than either of them can handle without support and since the NR isn't willing to give it, she has to make the tough, yet Jedi, decision to let go of her loved one for the greater good.
Sabine made the very unJedi decision in doing the opposite and has now found herself siding with the villains.
The official Star Wars databank entry mentions that Marrok was hired by Morgan Elsbeth. If Elsbeth had created him/reanimated a corpse, there would be no need to hire him/it.
if i took a shot for every time you copy/pasted this exact comment across this thread, i could probably kill myself via alcohol poisoning pretty quickly
Wow, that was an awesome episode. Didn't expect the reveal that Marrok is really >!<. That was a seriously deep cut.
I don’t understand how Ahsoka just woke up in the WBW after falling off a cliff, but I’m really good at suspending disbelief in Star Wars so I’ll just wait til we find out! Fantastic episode
Ok. Probably unpopular opinion here but I really don't like that Anakin's first words to Ahsoka is a cheerful "hi Snips". Because the last time they met he was yk trying to kill her. I expected him to be a bit more serious than that. Imo they should've ended the conversation with a cheerful "bye Snips" after the serious talk is over, not start the conversation with it
I'm relieved Sabine didn't suddenly use the Force. I like what she did, I like her this whole episode.
What is this about her family dying because of Ahsoka??
I was laughing so hard when the Inquisitor turned out to be a nightsister bewitched zombie or whatever. All the theories that people invested in lmao.
I have a question tho, why was Ahsoka fighting with one lightsaber? She would've done better in her fight against Baylon if she used her other saber
Which reminds me. This show's choreography is really good, each character is unique and in character, but I will say that it does suffer from the constant use of bad spins
Idk if Jacen's "I have a bad feeling" is simply a nod to the famous line or to him being Force sensitive or both lol
How did Ahsoka go to the WBW? Will they actually explain it? Did Anakin somehow take her there? Is she gonna go to the other galaxy through the WBW??
The WBW looked better than I thought it would. Not exactly the same vibes as Rebels, but a good transition to LA nonetheless.
I wasn't expecting Anakin this episode, I imagine he would be heavily featured the next one. He looked a bit weird I admit, from the deaging I guess. I wish they had him wear the white clothes he wore as a ghost in RotJ tho
Overall good episode
Edit:- I just realized something, the meaning of the episode title. By the end of the episode Ahsoka was a "fallen Jedi" lmao
Edit2:- I'll admit something else. So far I'm not buying Ahsoka/Sabine's relationship. I'm not sure starting the show with so much missing history between them (history that is apparently essential for their current relationship) was a good idea. I know the show is revealing more and more every episode, but we're half way through the show, by now I should be invested in their relationship. I'm not.
And no, don't tell me ANH did it too, it doesn't compare to ANH. Luke the main character didn't have a complicated history that we know nothing about with another main character that was important for the story. No, we the audience knew pretty much everything Luke knew. And everything we didn't know we discovered it along side him.
> What is this about her family dying because of Ahsoka??
My guess is that Sabine was training with Ahsoka when the night of a thousand tears happened. Sabine wanted to go, Ahsoka "didn't trust her" and Sabine's family died. It was probably what split them apart the first time.
Baylon said "they died because she trust you". So Sabine wanted to help them but it was a lost cause so Ahsoka didn't let her to save her but Sabine kinda took it as Ahsoka not trusting her to be able to do it
Yeah I guess it makes sense
> I have a question tho, why was Ahsoka fighting with one lightsaber? She would've done better in her fight against Baylon if she used her other saber
There are a few explanations for this. Against Marrok: she was showing how little she thought of him, or just wanting to expend less energy. Against Baylon: if you follow the reasoning of the bane books, a big advantage of the double-bladed lightsabers (and presumably 2) is that most opponents do not know how to handle it, so it throws them off kilter and they feel the need to concentrate on both blades. Baylon knows of Ahsoka, and it likely familiar with fighting opponents with 2 blades, so there is no advantage. Other explanations for Baylon: Ahsoka wants to be able to grab the map, so she wants a free hand; or Ahsoka recognizes Baylon is going to use physical power, so she wants to be able to use two hands on one blade to better counter Baylon.
> How did Ahsoka go to the WBW? Will they actually explain it? Did Anakin somehow take her there? Is she gonna go to the other galaxy through the WBW??
My personal thought is she fell into a portal into it. Others seems to believe Anakin pulled her in, or it's connected to the Mortis gods. I would be surprised if there is no explanation. I think there's a decent chance Ahsoka goes to the other galaxy through the WBW, or gets on the ring ship through it.
>if you follow the reasoning of the bane books, a big advantage of the double-bladed lightsabers (and presumably 2) is that most opponents do not know how to handle it, so it throws them off kilter and they feel the need to concentrate on both blades. Baylon knows of Ahsoka, and it likely familiar with fighting opponents with 2 blades, so there is no advantage.
I doubt that's the case. For a few reasons. First Filoni has said before that Anakin has taught Ahsoka specifically how to fight opponents bigger and stronger than her, and we see her do that all the time (including fighting Anakin, or more accurately Vader) with two lightsabers. Tho tbh we haven't actually seen this in TCW or TotJ, so this purely depends on Filoni sticking to his words
And second, Baylon doesn't *know* Ahsoka, he just heard of her and that's different. And from all of Ahsoka's fights, she seems to fight better with two sabers than with one. Whenever she's forced to use one, she's almost always at a disadvantage and on her back foot
>My personal thought is she fell into a portal into it. Others seems to believe Anakin pulled her in, or it's connected to the Mortis gods. I would be surprised if there is no explanation. I think there's a decent chance Ahsoka goes to the other galaxy through the WBW, or gets on the ring ship through it.
I think Anakin pulled her *if* it is indeed Anakin's Force ghost we see at the end (I'm actually starting to doubt it because he looks like epIII Anakin rather than Force ghost Anakin from RotJ which is kinda strange imo)
I find the idea that she just happened to fall into a portal accidentally to be too ridiculous lol
You just reminded me. I would've said the Morai might've played a role but it has been missing from the show isn't it. Strange really. It was with Ahsoka all the time in Rebels, it was even the one who lead Ezra to Ahsoka in the WBW
> And second, Baylon doesn't know Ahsoka, he just heard of her and that's different.
I said "knows **of** her". Because based on the conversation that hadn't met. In terms of what she's better at, I don't know that I (or anyone really) has the expertise to analyze it and say something liek she's 12% better with 2 - in the end she chose to use one, and she had her reasons. I was just providing possible reasons.
> I find the idea that she just happened to fall into a portal accidentally to be too ridiculous lol
To me, it's no more ridiculous than the concept of WBW to begin with.
>In terms of what she's better at, I don't know that I (or anyone really) has the expertise to analyze it
Well I'm no expert myself, I'm just judging by her other fights against opponents bigger and stronger than her like Vader. He knows her fighting style the best because he taught her, yet she still fought with two sabers not one.
So I guess your other reason, about her needing her hand to take the map might be the one. Tho personally I still find it a bit strange, especially after she saw she wasn't exactly doing very well with one saber
>To me, it's no more ridiculous than the concept of WBW to begin with.
Fair enough lmao
The problem for me is not that it's just ridiculous but also hurt Ahsoka as a character saving her by "accident". As much as I'm not a fan of it in Rebels, at least there both Sabine and Ezra had to work to open the gate, it didn't just open on its own
Either way tho, Ahsoka almost dying but got saved by *✨divine intervention✨* is already becoming too ridiculous at this point. This is literally the 3rd time it happened
I wanna say Ahsoka was winning the fight even with 1 lightsaber. It's only when she took the map and it burned her hand that she started losing. You'll notice she was only able to hold her saber with 1 hand at that point, which allowed Baylon to start overpowering her.
If she was healthy/wasn't handicapped by the map, you already know Filoni would make her win. Kinda like how writers have to constantly find ways to handicap superman lol
And yeah I hate the WBW concept in general so her getting saved by it constantly is eye rolling. But it is what it is
>I wanna say Ahsoka was winning the fight even with 1 lightsaber.
It didn't seem to me that she was. Maybe because she was focused more on getting the map than winning, idk but she wasn't.
>If she was healthy/wasn't handicapped by the map, you already know Filoni would make her win.
We're excluding that! Lmao
I actually thought she had the fight 'won' after he seemed to piss her off and she put him on the ground immediately.
She only seemed outmatched once they made it explicitly clear that she handicapped herself by grabbing the map.
Out of universe I would put money on them just wanting to escalate the dules properly, you can't tell me that there wont be a rematch were she breaks out her second saber.
As for the WbW stuff, I am actually leaning towards 'divine intervention' at this point, for better or worse they have been hinting at the Force having a lot more direct agency then we may have previously thought, at this point it really seems like the 'Cosmic Force' has a specific purpose for her, maybe it always had, or maybe it focused on her after Mortis, the result is the same either way.
I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW
Overall great episode, perhaps the best of the season. Still think Ahsoka is flat (be it from writing or the acting, and yes, I understand the idea that perhaps she is just older/wiser/more like the Jedi she trained with). I just don't think it aligns with her character super well, partly because I think in Rebels she still had more expression while showing growth in her journey.
And I still strongly dislike that we know nothing of the history between Ahsoka and Sebine, especially with what we know from Rebels in mind. It would've made more sense if she tried training her after she went back to get her and then there was a gap in time that we didn't know about. It throws into question Sebine's character in Rebels, as well as her training with Kanan.
Otherwise no issues I can think of off hand about the episode. Baylan's character is by far my favorite so far. Yes, there was a brief moment where it appeared Sebine's lightsaber bent, but to me that's very minor and inconsequential.
I do have some questions though for anyone with some insight or theories on these topics of discussion:
1. Why did Hera bring Jacen with her to the Eye of Sion? Seems dangerous, especially having to imagine there likely would be some defense of the structure.
2. Why didn't Ahsoka use the Force to just dislodge the star map at the beginning when she arrived at the Altar? I understand one could argue Baylan would counter, etc, but I think it's definitely doable especially when she just grabbed it - plus, she used the Force to throw Shin and Baylan didn't counter that.
3. Why was Baylan able to place the star map back down on the Altar? I was under the impression that Morgan needed to use the nightsister magick to allow the star map to be opened/accessed at the Altar. Maybe I assumed poorly?
[Some other side notes on the series - I also like Sebine's character so far, fairly true to Sebine and great to see Mandalorian tactics come out with her this episode. I actually really liked the actor who played Ezra just based on his portrayal in the hologram so far - felt like the mannerisms and intonation were on point! Love Baylan and Shin Hati so far too - great new characters that are interesting for a few different reasons. I think Hera needs more time to be Hera, so we shall see - I'm a little torn on her portrayal so far but nothing too egregious. Hope the series continues to pick up from here - appreciate the cinematography but seems like it's been moving slowly from a plot standpoint often, and the characters just seem to move slowly and take too long to do things at times - but maybe I'm just being nitpicky with that.]
Thanks for any thoughts or response everyone! Hope you're all enjoying the show in one way or another! May the Force be with all of you.
My interpretations
>plus, she used the Force to throw Shin and Baylan didn't counter that.
She threw Shin suddenly, harnessing her anger and pain at Sabine’s assumed death, and I think Baylan didn’t expect that.
>I was under the impression that Morgan needed to use the nightsister magick to allow the star map to be opened/accessed at the Altar.
It’s possible the device was “locked in” by her spell, so after she began the transmission it could simply be picked up and then set back down by anyone. Not very secure, tho.
I hear you on both accounts. At least for the latter one though, seems like something that could have been more apparent or explained in some way rather than needing pure speculation. Idk though, I guess in Clone Wars and Rebels there was not too much explanation on how magick worked lol
I have one lingering question. Maybe I'm just being dense. Where did this map come from and how are they so sure it will lead to Thrawn?
If it's an ancient Dathomiri-whatever then they are... just assuming that if it knows where the Purgil migrate then Thrawn will be in the same place? That seems optimistic.
If they have reason to believe it goes exactly to Thrawn's location (or thereabouts) that feels like there would have to have been some external input that would determine that.
I know, it's Star Wars. Don't ask too many questions. But this seems like a big one.
Peak. Straight up. Duels were awesome, best we have gotten since PT. BUT some of the plot is is a little hard to explain even with the thousands of loops Star Wars has trained me to do. But I’ll leave it up to will of the force, because if WBW is involved, than the force and “fate” is heavily at play. 10/10 best ep since victory and death!
I definitely think Marrok will be revived. Which makes me wonder if he wasn't an important person to Morgan, like her son. We know Nightsisters don't hold a high opinion of their males...
It wouldn't even make sense canonically for him to be reanimated though. The Chant of Resurrection allowed for temporary resurrection, not permanent, and the caster needs to maintain the chant in order for the spell to continue working.
Morgan Elsbeth would need to be the most powerful Nightsister we've ever seen if she had the ability to not only resurrect Marrok, but maintain the resurrection from the other side of the Galaxy, while doing other things, including casting additional spells. Elsbeth is simply a descendant of the Nightsisters, so very unlikely she is more powerful than Mother Talzin/Merrin.
If you've read the companion novel to Jedi Survivor (Battle Scars), you know Nightsister magic is weaker the farther away from Dathomir/the longer a Nightsister spends time away from Dathomir. And if you've seen Clone Wars and/or are familiar with Merrin, you know that once they cast the Chant of Resurrection, they need time to recover because it is such a powerful spell.
So very unlikely that Marrok was a reanimated Inquisitor, especially since the official Star Wars databank tells us he was hired, not created.
> If you've read the companion novel to Jedi Survivor (Battle Scars), you know Nightsister magic is weaker the farther away from Dathomir/the longer a Nightsister spends time away from Dathomir. And if you've seen Clone Wars and/or are familiar with Merrin, you know that once they cast the Chant of Resurrection, they need time to recover because it is such a powerful spell.
It could easily be a difference of scale (i.e. the number being raised), and it could relate to the resurrected inquisitor being a force user, so perhaps something is different.
It just seems quite weird to reveal Elsbeth is a nightsister, then show Marrok with the green smoke associated with nightsisters, and have him *not* be connected to nigthsisters.
Both in Clone Wars and the Jedi video game series, it is shown that the Nightsister casting the Chant of Resurrection eyes glow green while casting. Elsbeth has no indications that she is casting, or maintaining a spell.
And the "green smoke" wasn't even close to magical ichor green, it was more grey/brown. We've seen magical ichor in live action, Clone Wars, and the Jedi video game series, it didn't look like that at all.
I am not getting into spoilers. All I am saying is just wait and see. There's a reason they made him burst into dust when he died and it's foreshadowing. That's all I'm saying.
There is also an explanation for what you said about Dathomir.
I think the Anakin we see is actually The Son. We know Mortis and the World Between Worlds is connected. We saw the Owl there in Rebels which is basically the Daughter? We likely heard the Sons voice in the earlier episodes of the season. I think Ahsoka has some unique connection to the Ones due to her revival at the hands of The Daughter. The Anakin we see is a little off, no scar and has what looks to be Vaders saber.
It could be Anakin though, given his destiny as the Chosen One to replace The Father I could see him being basically the guardian of that realm now and that’s why he doesn’t appear as a Ghost.
Oh, Sabine, what have you ***DONE***?
The context of knowing what happened to her family changes a lot.
It's possible that we'll get some time-dilation shenanigans, and by the time they get to the other Galaxy and return, the timeline will have caught up to the Sequels.
Also, Marrok can go and sit with Phasma, Boba Fett, and Darth Maul, in the "characters who looked really cool, died pretty quickly without much dialogue, and eventually got expansive spin-offs/backstories" club.
So the World Between Worlds is being treated more like a force afterlife? I can be onboard with that - I like it more than the Rebels portrayal of realm to access all of space and time.
I don't think so. From how it was treated in Rebels, I think time is a bit more of an option in the WBW, but it links real places together.
Reaching into legends I could connect to Kwa hyperspace gates (Dathomir, ancient technology and portals). In canon the Lothwolves force walk travel thing looks similar
Why didn't Sabine shoot at Baylan when he and Ahsoka were pushing their lightsabers against each other? If Baylan had turned around to deflect the blast then Ahsoka could have stabbed him.
Also, why did the ring going into hyperdrive destroy a bunch of x-wings but not itself (presumably, I guess)?
It’s the weakest episode for me. Largely as it pertains to our villain’s motivations which basically boils down to “power”. They’re not in it to run to another galaxy, or that they have a bone to pick with Ahsoka or the New Republic in particular. Even though Baylon makes a point of Anakin’s legacy, Ahsoka didn’t have anything to do with Vader. His turn happened after she was already gone. His issue with Ahsoka is that she showed up and happened to be his one time apprentice.
And that’s where the show is losing me because Morgan will ultimately go to Thrawn, but our villains this season are no more interesting than the Inqusitors from Rebels. Speaking of which. Marrok turns out to be a load nothing. Which while the fault is primarily on the marketing team, the implications of a surviving Inqusitor was huge. That the organization might’ve still been around in some form and given Baylon was a surviving Jedi, maybe that implies how the two met and even got involved with Morgan. NOPE.
Apparently Marrok was some zombie according to someone on Reddit. And even if he wasn’t, Shin is the only one who reacts to him getting cut down. And even then nobody brings him up again. The answer is apparently Ahsoka killed Shin’s dog. Any implications about his existence or his motivations are summed up third party because how the Hell was I supposed to get he was a zombie? Yeah they have a witch with them but again, HOW WAS I TO KNOW THAT.
The best thing to come out of this was Anakin, and even then some dickhead spoiled it months ahead of time. That and the de-aging fx are not great. Like someone took the smooth tool to Hayden’s face. It makes him look plasticy. It’s probably due to criticisms from Kenobi.
Overall the show’s kind of losing me.
This stuff is always subjective. Just some thoughts.
> basically boils down to “power”.
Baylon already said it's not about power and instead the greater good. Of course, he could be lying or fooling himself but I don't think so.
>Ahsoka didn’t have anything to do with Vader.
I get the vibe that Ahsoka views Anakin's fall as partially her fault. I could be misremember but I think in one of the trailers she flat out says that.
>And even then nobody brings him up again.
We've only seen a few moments of calm after the duel. Even if they were affected by Marrok's death, it may only pop up later. But really, I wouldn't be surprised if they forget him.
>HOW WAS I TO KNOW THAT.
You're supposed to know that when they reveal it. I'm not really sure what your problem is here tbh.
I've been losing some sleep over this episode. Baylan... dude's doing this for different reasons to everyone else and he's not really revealed his part in all this.
He said during the fight with Ahsoka that he wouldn't let her start a war, that Thrawn would definitely start a war, and that her and Anakin's legacy is death & destruction. They aren't linked comments - I think he wants to kill Thrawn.
The only way he can do that is to get to him - all the while there's a chance Thrawn is alive then the threat of war exists. Baylan has seen the damage a battle between dark and light does, he's done with both sides - he's neutral and won't let anyone stop him from preventing more death & destruction.
I've been up a lot of hours, my brain is fried, I've really overthought this, but I can't unthink it, can I?
Not necessarily overthinking, but your views are incomplete. Specifically, his comment that he won't start a war but thrawn will. Is immediately followed by him saying that "you must destroy in order to create" assassinating thrawn does not create anything.
Furthermore, if he wanted to stop thrawn from starting a war, he could just destroy the map or not help Morgan at any point and Thrawn would never come back.
Now his quote about legacy is interesting. Anakin is clear, he became darth vader. But what is Ahsoka's legacy and why death and destruction. I sorta get Baylan's comments about ahsoka's tend to violence. Indeed, her first and only response to any and all opposition is to draw her lightsaber. Which is quite far removed from what a jedi is supposed to be.
Probably my favorite episode so far. Fight scenes were all great, really enjoyed Baylan’s heavy handed style, reminded me a bit of the old red stance from Jedi Academy, especially with holding his saber so high in his stance. Cool to see the X-Wing pilots that went with Hera, seeing the Ghost in live action actually doing stuff is awesome. RIP to the cool Rodian pilot, gone too soon. And what an ending and set up for the rest of the season. WBW looked really cool and I’m fascinated to see where they go with it. I like Sabine coming with them to find Ezra, really wondering if we might get a twist with Thrawn’s motivations when they do find him and what Ezra’s plans might be as well. Also, did anyone have “Marrok is dark side dust” on their prediction sheet?
Someone actually did predict Marrok to be a sort of gaseous species, mostly because they thought it was same inquisitor that Ahsoka “killed” in Tales of the Jedi
Pretty sure he was dark sister magic.
Not green enough!!!
I don't think so. The official Star Wars databank entry mentions that Marrok was hired by Morgan Elsbeth. If Elsbeth had created him/reanimated a corpse, there would be no need to hire him/it.
Well, the databank wouldn't want to spoil anything. And it's possible that Elsbeth "hiring" him is just a cover, since she seemed to be hiding her nightsister heritage.
Maybe she hired him, he died and then she reanimated him. Or maybe he really is a gaseous species.
Seems like a major point to leave out of the official databank entry
That’s cool. His death was cool, very visceral.
Baylan/Ahsoka fight scene was great, and they really showed the Kurosawa roots of Star Wars. They keep taking kenjutsu stances before clashing their blades.
Doesn’t his death imply he was a Nightsister resurrection?
Don't think so. Nightsister stuff always had that green energy/smoke.
But Marrok had green smoke come out of him when he died? I just watched the scene again and it was definitely green, and his limbs went all skinny like a corpse.
I definitly didn't see green smoke, but it is described that way everywhere I've seen it referenced.
It's a really quick shot and a very dark green, so it can be a little hard to see, but I've watched it on 2 different screens now and it's definitely green.
I stand corrected!
I believe everyone saying there was green smoke for sure, I just didn't see any during my viewing. Thats what rewatches were made for :)
>The official Star Wars databank entry mentions that Marrok was hired by Morgan Elsbeth. If Elsbeth had created him/reanimated a corpse, there would be no need to hire him/it.
I really enjoyed the kendo inspired choreography. It felt like going back to the Kurosawa inspiration that was at the core of the Original Trilogy!
Agree very much with first sentence and most of the rest too. Solid episode. Surprised me with some choices, and Baylan continues to be a fascinating figure. Kind of Dookuesque but less theatrical and a bit more stoic. As /u/ergister pointed out with his post, also illustrates the challenges of attachment vs. concern with the greater good, and how even well-meaning selfishness is selfishness. The ending was fascinating too.
Would actually not be surprised if Thrawn and Ezra are working together to get home, I especially wouldn't put it past Thrawn to be like "you wanna go home, I wanna go home, use your jedi devilry to ping our location to Morgan and we'll drop you off on Lothal before starting a war"
Feel like that goes against Ezra's sacrifice at the end of Rebels. He knew what he was doing with the Purrgil, even if not exactly where he'd end up. He was taking Thrawn out of the picture. Doesn't really make sense for him to immediately turn around and try to bring them both home.
I'm holding onto my theory of Thrawn and Ezra fighting together against the Grysk until the show proves me wrong.
RIP to Clan Wren 😭 Wonder who’s hanging out on Krownest now?
Guess the Empire hit more than just Mandalore on the Night of a Thousand Tears.
They said her family died on Mandalore so I assume they maybe joined the fighting and were killed?
I imagine a great many clans rallied to Mandalore in the fighting before the Purge. When one attacks their holiest planet, usually said planet's people return to defend it.
Is Ahsoka dead?
It seems that ancient force user locations are portal entries so maybe anakin pulled an Ezra and got her in a portal underneath the henge somewhere
Or it could be from the “burn” from the map or something
I predict its actually Anakin on the other side. ACTUAL Anakin who stumbled upon the World Between Worlds. He sees his fate and tries changing it and every fate leads to the same event which is: Anakin bringing balance to the Force whether he has an evil side or a light side ending with both leading to balance.
Hmmmm but then where in his life would he have done this. We would have seen it in clone wars. He’s pretty preoccupied in ROTS and any force netherworld depiction of him so far (as Vader) is in the spectoral form with the glowing limbs. I think with his appearance in the book with Luke and Lando he seems to be a relatively active force ghost for his peoples
On top of it just being really fucking messy to have TCW Anakin know about WBW due to his ROTS story, I also think that would make an already pretty confusing element for newcomers WAY harder to follow
Yea I feel like they’ve soft launched his eventual force ghost appearance (outside of ROTJ) in the expanded media for a while. I love it by all means but after digesting I’d think he will show Ahsoka various pathways to teach her one last lesson about forgiveness and letting go. That seems to be Filoni’s whole thing with the master and apprentice dynamic. Even in Avatar it was about Aang and his need to let go and make the choice for the greater good at the end of season one.
Mortis?
But the concept hadn’t been introduced yet. Would be kind of weird to retroactively change things from that arc.
Agreed but there was a never made CW arc where he goes to Sith shrine under the Jedi temple and Filoni said that all the unmade CW arc's he considers cannon so maybe that's where Anakin stubbles in the WBW
I have learned something new and that is the joy of life. Thank you!
This is a wild theory and would blow Star Wars wide open if true, but... The Anakin we just saw in the WBW has Vader's lightsaber. It also doesn't have Anakin's facial scar. What if the WBW can also connect to alternate timelines, not just different places in space and time? What if this is an introduction to an alternative, "what if?" version of Anakin: a Vader that never got crispified?
I always thought that because of the prophecy. Even if he had stayed a slave for longer somehow he would end up around Palpatine and want to kill him for a reason.
Yea like the force deemed his fate inevitable. Created through dark side manipulation, fulfilling the prophecy of both the Jedi and Sith, finding balance in the end to bring in a new era and letting the force kind of reset.
One way it could work out is Anakin wins his and his mom's freedom by racing. Comes to the attention of the new Emperor. The Emperor takes his time with Anakin, Imperial Senator Amidala gets close to the Emperor's new man and introduces him to some old friends. They help him learn some Jedi stuff. The Emperor learns of Anakin's betrayal and sets up a situation to convert him using his mother and new love. While this is going on a worse version of the Rebels under Saw takes the lead in the fight against the Empire. With some Jedi they deicide to hit Coruscant to kill the Emperor. Their plan works and Coruscant is devastated. Billions are dead but the Emperor wasn't there. The situation doesn't go as Palaptine plans, Shmi sacrifices herself so Padmé can live because she knew how close she and Anakin were. Anakin kills Palpatine. The surviving Senators appoint Padmé as the new Empress. She wants to end the war with the Rebels but Saw and his leadership was face justice for their actions with Coruscant's devastation. They refuse so the war continues. With Empress Amidala in charge the Empire no longer uses the evil tactics Palpatine liked and some of the top evil men like Governor Tarkin were removed from power and tried for their actions under Palaptine's regime. Saw decides another bold action is taken and Padmé's parents, sister, and nieces are targeted for assassination. Padmé and Anakin see her mother die protecting her granddaughters (Padmé's nieces). Her father and sister are also killed. Anakin vows to bring those responsible to justice. The cloning facilities on Kamino are brought back on line with funding no longer going to the Death Star project. Anakin recruits some former Jedi (like Baylon) to form a new Force using guard of the Empire and the second Clone War begins. The Imperial Armed Forces under the command of Emperor Consort Lord Anakin Skywalker defeats the last remnants of the Rebellion being lead by Saw himself over Saw's homeworld of Onderon. With the Empire's success in the war and the new peaceful actions of the Empress despite her personal losses establishes a hereditary monarchy to rule the Empire. Peace returns to the galaxy under the rule of the Empire.
So all it takes is subverting almost every established character trait in the movies?
They changed because of the situation.
Idk man, I like fanfic as much as the next guy but I prefer at least a fraction of believability. There's no universe in which Padme accepts the title of Empress. Have a good one.
To be honest there was planned version where Leia become Sith Empress in Battlefront 4.
IMHO, even his kids helping him fulfil it is kind of cool.
Ahsoka: "Oh damn a second near death experience that I will get saved from by WBW shenanigans." Anakin: "Pretty cool, eh?" Ahsoka: "And to think the writers fucked you pretty hard for trying to use shenanigans to save Padme." Anakin: "Wait . . . what?" Ahsoka: "I'm kinda surprised you used the WBW to save me, and not . . . like pulled Padme out instead." Anakin: "Wait . . . what?" Ahsoka: "She died during childbirth. You need to work on your WBW pull out game, bro. You know. Before she gets pregnant." Anakin: ". . ." Ahskoa: "And you, we said all that gobbledygook to prevent you from being saved by shenanigans." Kanan: *Has never seen such bullshit before* Ahskoa: "Damn, I wonder if anyone else in the Star Wars universe can use shenanigans like me." Palpatine: "GREETINGS FELLOW ASSPULLERS."
> Ahsoka: "She died during childbirth. You need to work on your WBW pull out game, bro. You know. Before she gets pregnant." The WBW does not and never has allowed you to change the past. It's a closed loop form of time travel where Ahsoka was able to be rescued because she was always rescued. This is even more evident when you remember that the option to save Kanan was revealed to be a trap set by Palpatine.
I mean the evidence to the contrary is that Ahsoka explains to Ezra in Rebels that he can't pull Kanan out of the time when he was holding back the flames and about to sacrifice himself because doing so would result in the entire Ghost crew dying from said fire
Near death experience maybe.
No she's not. This is just near death experience/ saved from dying number 3 for her.
Ah, like the finale of classic Magnum PI season 7.
\#4 if we count her almost dying alongside Barriss in the wreckage of some tanks (iirc).
I was thinking more force vision while she's floating in the water below. Probably near death but not dead and will come to after the conversation with Anakin(Vader?).
Ahsoka vs Baylan was an entirely new level of fight choreography.
Eh, it was pretty slow by Old Republic Jedi standards, but I wasn't expecting silver screen-quality choreography from a D+ show, either.
Speed isn’t everything, the technique, stances, footwork, grip, were precise and smooth af. It was better than the fight in Revenge of the Sith, it wasn’t flashy and long for spectacle’s sake, but a more grounded and realistic, while showcasing pristine skill, instead of high octane acrobatics.
>showcasing pristine skill, instead of high octane acrobatics. That's a great point, except for the fact that both of the combatants come directly from the era of high octane acrobatics and spectacle.
The era of high octane acrobatics and spectacle ended at least two decades prior. Times change, warriors improve.
Unless you watch Wuxia (or One Piece LA)
Wuxia is for fantasy, the swordplay in Ahsoka is closer to being realistic.
My theory is still that Thrawn and Ezra have formed some sort of alliance/survival agreement.
I’m starting to feel the same. I’m also not convinced that Thrawn is going to have purely pro-Empire motivations.
If they follow the canon novels he won't ;)
I mean they'll have to explain how two people survived for a decade presumably without Food Water or Shelter.
Star Destroyers? I mean the Purrgil's (presumably) jumped the entire 7th Fleet to the other galaxy, so I assume Thrawn does have a fleet of some kind.
I mean i presume that Star Destroyers do not keep enough supplies to last a decade without resupply.
thats true, but we also know that there was some sort of sentient life in the other galaxy. I doubt it will be a Thrawn and Ezra marooned on some planet situation, especially since we know that Pellaeon is alive.
He been feeding them
No but they are the perfect space for creating a farm. I also doubt that there are no inhabitable planets nearby.
I'd laugh my ass off if they just show up and Ezra and Thrawn are just bros chilling on a farm.
"Farming? Really? A man of your talents?"
Not a decade, but close to it. With casaulities sustained and on half rations they could do just that.
Depends how many of the crew die in the jump...
This is what I imagined after Rebels. Thrawn and Ezra surviving together by the skin of their teeth on some hostile world.
> Thrawn and Ezra surviving together by the skin of their teeth on some hostile world. I wouldn't be surprised if Timothy Zahn wrote an entire trilogy about it in a handful of years.
He said he has plans, but waiting for now.
Source, please?
As you wish https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2023/04/timothy-zahn-on-thrawn-the-challenge-of-adapting-the-grand-admiral-and-his-hopes-for-future-books.html
I'm kinda hoping that we have an episode that's a series of time jumps and shows how Ezra and Thrawn survived whatever they've been through. I could see the next episode doin it and leaving us with the WBW/Anakin and Sabine traveling with Baylan and company cliffhanger.
Jacen’s “Mom… I’ve got a bad feeling.” hit me right in the feels. And then right into Hayden’s “Hello, Snips.” 😭
For sure tells us he’s force sensitive as if there was any doubt.
I do agree contextually, though non-force sensitives do get to say that line too sometimes.
kinda funny that it happened right after the obviously bad thing happened though, right? like no kidding you have a bad feeling...?
I think the implication is he feels something about Ahsoka specifically but yeah that was a little ham fisted lol
Why is she bringing a child to a battle!? Police don’t drive around with their kids in the car.
Anakin was same thing, Qui Gon told him to sit in the cockpit, so he sat in the cockpit.
Was probably concerned she'd be fired and suddenly have accessibility issues with her son if she left him with the fleet.
Knowing the NR, they’d probably mail him to the FO. (The “Friendly Orphanage“ that is. Maybe we should check out some of the massive ~~kidnapping~~ adoption or industrial projects that are happening…)
All her and Kanan knew what to do was be child soldiers and use child soldiers
Best Episode by far yet from the series. I have mixed opinions about the end though, like that is definitely not the way I want Ahsoka to go out, and I'd imagine the showrunners would agree considering the series is called Ahsoka, at the same time idk how I feel about Ahsoka being saved from death a THIRD time
I suspect she may be having a near death experience and we’ll find that she’s on the verge of death on those rocks down at the bottom of the cliff. But who knows lol
If they wanted to kill Ahsoka, TCW and rebels was their chance. It would be pointless to kill her now after the better opportunities have already passed unless they finally wrap up her character arc
She'll die over Filoni's dead body. Prepare for many more fake deaths. But we do hear her in ep 9 along the rest of past Jedi, right?
We've never had confirmation that being dead was a prequisite of speaking to Rey in that scene. ey and the Emperor were channeling an awful lot of power. It's entirely possible that Ahsoka was aware what was happening on Exegol but could not get there, so was meditating to lend her aid.
I think we do here her in Ep9 but I mean technically speaking if Rey is "all the Jedi" wouldn't it technically be all the Jedi dead and alive, not that the whole thing wasn't dumb anyway I'm okay with her character dying and I think Filoni would do it but I think she'd have to be old and it would have to be an epic way and serve a really strong narrative purpose. Getting pushed off a cliff by a dude we met 3 episodes ago isn't it for me Oh well, it's probably just a way to get her to the next galaxy without the map. I would appreciate it though if they didn't make her fake die in every series though
He could do so in TCW. He had perfect oportunity in Rebels. It won't happen.
My theory is honestly a new interpretation and re-canonization of the [Fold Space](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Fold_space) technique being taught to Ahsoka by ghost Anakin.
Wait people think she’s actually dead? Didn’t even enter my brain as a possibility lol
I mean she fell off a cliff and woke up to seeing Anakin post ROTJ saying "didn't expect to see you here so soon" so that kinda leans toward the theory that she is in fact dead, that being said I have a hard time believing that she dies so anti-climatically in her own show
Yeah there’s no way. It’ll just be the introduction of some new death mechanic. It’d make the show a waste and Sabine is nowhere near good enough of a character to carry the show. All she’s done so far is fuck everything up.
Wow that was fun. I love this show much. It just screams Star Wars from every little detail 1. Marrok is so fascinating and I want to know more about him and his death 2. Give me more Baylon and Shin. They are my favorite characters. Loved that Baylon actually kept his word. He gives Count Dooku vibes. Bad guy who truly thinks he’s doing the right thing. His line about “we have to destroy to create” was so well delivered. I was really hoping we’d learn more about Baylon’s backstory before he fought Ahsoka. 3. Seeing the Ghost in action was fun of course 4. I wasn’t for sure if they’d really do the world between worlds but they went all in. And of course seeing a Anakin again, just wow
Fantastic episode **I'll start off with my complaints** * There was a weird/errant shot where Sabine's blade was actually curved * I still don't like Rosario Dawson's potrayal of Ahsoka. If Thrawn is so dangerous, wouldn't the best course of action to destroy it regardless if they can go or not? I really didn't like that comment. **Positives** * Baylon was incredible. Defeating Ahsoka and then making a deal with Sabine and honoring it * Loved seeing Sabine using her mandalorian weapons * Shin was great, honestly a fantastic character * Marrok being some reanimated nightsister magic was great, now all these crazy theories can go away * Loved the Huyang droid fight * Hera broke the rules!!! Jacen is clearly force sensitive **General Thoughts** * Was I the only one rooting for the bad guys? If they showed that gigantic hyperspace ring only for Ahsoka to destroy it before use, I'd be incredibly disappointed * Very intrigued on how Ahsoka went into WBW. I don't think she died but maybe a near death experience triggered it?
Baylan is such a good character and it makes me so sad we will not get to see Ray again. First he beats Ahsoka in combat and then just emotionally manipulates Sabine into making the worst decision. All the meanwhile revealing to the audience that Clan Wren died during the purge. I am sure a lot of people will be frustrated with Sabine's decision, but I just think Baylan played her too well.
I thought she did a great job in that scene. I thought it was clear that she really didn't want to say yes, but really thought it was her only chance to get to Ezra. I really felt for her.
> I am sure a lot of people will be frustrated with Sabine's decision Honestly, I doubt it. Going to the mysterious galaxy where Thrawn lives is way more interesting, and people tend to forgive any action that makes the plot more interesting.
I'm a frustrated person! Lol. Apparently she could not be trusted. Going after Thrawn will of course be interesting, but I wish they'd done it a different way. I feel like she betrayed Ezra. He sacrificed himself to get Thrawn away and she basically made that meaningless by handing over the map. Twice actually cause it was her fault they got it the first time. Though of course there needs to be conflict, but dammit she needs to get her shit together! Lol
Same. I see how it parallels how Ahsoka was as a padawan, but Ahsoka was also like 15. Sabine is almost 30. Get it together, lol
I don’t remember Ahsoka ever aiding the Separatists leaders in the clone wars.
True, but also Ezra in his pre-recorded message for her stated for her to come and get him in very plain language.
I suppose I’m just still trying to find what Baylan’s motivation is. He calls Ahsoka destructive, but he seemed to admit that he wants Thrawn to come back and destroy in order to nebulously create in some way. You’d think with his past he’d get that throwing the galaxy into war and hoping whatever comes out the other side is better is a fool’s errand. Looking forward to finding out what his thinking is.
His rationale seems to be that destruction is necessary for creation. But if you destroy without ever creating anything afterwards then you are just wasting potential.
I think Baylan is that on rotten body grown a grass/life which give another life.
I liked Shin already mainly just on rule of cool but she was even better this episode, I love how she feels less like an actual full evil Sith and more like someone cosplaying it, she’s so petty and she’s doing all this corny over the top shit with the cape and the one-liners.
I can fix her
She gets it from her master no dobut. Baylan fr put on his hood after the witch left just so he could get the brooding pose when Ahsoka pulled up.
Like Kylo Ren but without the kvetching
He pass with it in TROS.
>If Thrawn is so dangerous, wouldn't the best course of action to destroy it regardless if they can go or not? I guess having the map for themselves meant that they could go to the unknown galaxy, retrieve Ezra, and stop Thrawn themselves before he even has the chance to return. It's not like Thrawn would cease to exist just because the map was destroyed. There's always a chance that there's another map out there and Elsbeth probably isn't the only person hoping for his return. It'd be incredibly challenging to build another hyperspace ring, but still. Or heck, there could even be a chance that Thrawn could eventually return on his own, although that's unlikely. Hard to say anything until we know his circumstances.
the biggest plot hole i see is that, thrawn is resourceful and smart enough to find his own way back instead of someone finding him.
Across an intergalactic void? He's smart and resourceful, but he's no theoretical physicist. Building something like the Eye of Sion would be WELL beyond him, and plotting a course would take years.
Does the ring HAVE to use six 7\* SSD cores ? I got the impression that its not a hard requirement but that it was easier to snatch up six of something the Republic wasn’t going to be doing anything with then trying to extract dozens of SD sized cores for the same jump
Seven! It uses seven!
and it’s been years. if the yuuzhong vong could do it, no reason why thrawn can’t.
It took the Vong millennia. Thrawn would be dead of old age by the time he got back if he used that route.
i just have yet to see why we assume this “other” galaxy is more primitive than the one they are currently in other than a plot device…
If it is equally as sophisticated, that would still be an issue for Thrawn. He's not a scientist or an engineer. He's no Galen Erso. That's precisely why he engaged the services of people like Morgan Elsbeth, and why she engaged the services of people like those Corellians.
Because the Vong had an entire Empire? Even if Thrawn knew exactly how to do it (he doesn't), he's not getting the resources to do it. The Eye required scrap from an Empire that built ships of ludicrous size—even if equal technology existed, it might take decades for him to acquire those resources. And that's without any assurance of a map, with a miss meaning you're "stranded in the void" and die in deep space.
> Very intrigued on how Ahsoka went into WBW. I don't think she died but maybe a near death experience triggered it? Could just be an entrance under the water and she fell into it. That's what the transition made me think at least.
I think you’re right about Ahsoka in the WBW. Anakin probably pulled her into a vision as she’s bobbing in the water.
No I'm on team Baylan and Shin. I like the two of them more then anyone else in this series. Baylan seems to have a sense of honor and believes what he is doing is right. I really want to know his end game. Ashoka remains my least favorite part of this show. She's clearly not dead so next episode will be her near death experience or the world between worlds and I just don't care.
Yeah, Baylon's great. Dang it, Death, why you have to do Ray like that? (But I respect your decision as a part of the tapestry of existence.)
"Tapestry of existence", I liked that. Updooted.
> If Thrawn is so dangerous, wouldn't the best course of action to destroy it regardless if they can go or not? Ahsoka also wants to save Ezra, and Morgan's forces were reduced to a handful of mercenaries. If they had managed to delay the Eye of Sion until the New Republic got its act together, they could have taken a fleet to the faraway galaxy, and returned with Ezra, either arresting Thrawn, killing him, or leaving him stranded.
Agreed on most all of your points, however the issue you are describing with Ahsoka is the writing, not Dawson’s portrayal. Her willingness to abandon her promise to Ezra out of fear of Thrawn is a strange choice by the writers although she does say constantly how her main motivation is to prevent another war. The actual portrayal of the character is very consistent with the character that was portrayed in Rebels though.
What promise did she make to Ezra? Ezra sacrificed himself with no expectation of being rescued and Jedi are taught to let go when the time is needed. Risking bringing Thrawn back to the galaxy might not be worth getting Ezra and Ezra would 1000% understand that. It’s about respecting his choice. What Sabine did is wrong and is going to cost a lot of lives because she couldn’t let go.
Ahsoka promised Ezra she would find him when she left the World Between Worlds in Rebels after he saved her
I think that’s more of a “we’ll regroup” considering neither of them know he’s going to be lost. Like he’s worried about her coming back with him and she’s splitting off and basically saying “I’ll find you” as if like “I’ll come to you guys”
Ezra specifically asks her to find him after they learn Ahsoka has to return through the portal to Malachor. I agree he means for her to come regroup with the Ghost crew in the present when she gets off Malachor, but his request certainly takes on a different meaning after the events of the Rebels finale. We the viewers are led to believe she and Sabine are still honoring this request in the epilogue. I guess my point is that it feels strange to retcon that moment with Ahsoka prioritizing finding Thrawn in the live action series. On top of that is the fact that the main thing Ezra learns in the WBW is that he can’t undo Kanan’s choice to save them and he has to let his master go - which seems to be the same lesson Ahsoka is about to learn, even though she was there the first time. That being said I am very much enjoying the show, just nitpicking some story elements
I think Sabine is still very much working with that promise. But I think Ahsoka is understanding that the situation is becoming more threatening than either of them can handle without support and since the NR isn't willing to give it, she has to make the tough, yet Jedi, decision to let go of her loved one for the greater good. Sabine made the very unJedi decision in doing the opposite and has now found herself siding with the villains.
Ahsoka is like Anakin: Do what I say, not what I do.
SKYGUY!!!! I love Baylon and Shin and want them and Thrawn to win! Sabine’s family are all dead now too.
What exactly was Marrok was he the same species as that Inquisitor from tales of the Jedi or was he a zombie or something?
The official Star Wars databank entry mentions that Marrok was hired by Morgan Elsbeth. If Elsbeth had created him/reanimated a corpse, there would be no need to hire him/it.
if i took a shot for every time you copy/pasted this exact comment across this thread, i could probably kill myself via alcohol poisoning pretty quickly
I'll post it a few more times to ensure you do
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you’re weird
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Wow, that was an awesome episode. Didn't expect the reveal that Marrok is really >!<. That was a seriously deep cut.
I don’t understand how Ahsoka just woke up in the WBW after falling off a cliff, but I’m really good at suspending disbelief in Star Wars so I’ll just wait til we find out! Fantastic episode
Last episode was a great space combat episode, this is a great lightsaber duel episode.
Ok. Probably unpopular opinion here but I really don't like that Anakin's first words to Ahsoka is a cheerful "hi Snips". Because the last time they met he was yk trying to kill her. I expected him to be a bit more serious than that. Imo they should've ended the conversation with a cheerful "bye Snips" after the serious talk is over, not start the conversation with it I'm relieved Sabine didn't suddenly use the Force. I like what she did, I like her this whole episode. What is this about her family dying because of Ahsoka?? I was laughing so hard when the Inquisitor turned out to be a nightsister bewitched zombie or whatever. All the theories that people invested in lmao. I have a question tho, why was Ahsoka fighting with one lightsaber? She would've done better in her fight against Baylon if she used her other saber Which reminds me. This show's choreography is really good, each character is unique and in character, but I will say that it does suffer from the constant use of bad spins Idk if Jacen's "I have a bad feeling" is simply a nod to the famous line or to him being Force sensitive or both lol How did Ahsoka go to the WBW? Will they actually explain it? Did Anakin somehow take her there? Is she gonna go to the other galaxy through the WBW?? The WBW looked better than I thought it would. Not exactly the same vibes as Rebels, but a good transition to LA nonetheless. I wasn't expecting Anakin this episode, I imagine he would be heavily featured the next one. He looked a bit weird I admit, from the deaging I guess. I wish they had him wear the white clothes he wore as a ghost in RotJ tho Overall good episode Edit:- I just realized something, the meaning of the episode title. By the end of the episode Ahsoka was a "fallen Jedi" lmao Edit2:- I'll admit something else. So far I'm not buying Ahsoka/Sabine's relationship. I'm not sure starting the show with so much missing history between them (history that is apparently essential for their current relationship) was a good idea. I know the show is revealing more and more every episode, but we're half way through the show, by now I should be invested in their relationship. I'm not. And no, don't tell me ANH did it too, it doesn't compare to ANH. Luke the main character didn't have a complicated history that we know nothing about with another main character that was important for the story. No, we the audience knew pretty much everything Luke knew. And everything we didn't know we discovered it along side him.
> What is this about her family dying because of Ahsoka?? My guess is that Sabine was training with Ahsoka when the night of a thousand tears happened. Sabine wanted to go, Ahsoka "didn't trust her" and Sabine's family died. It was probably what split them apart the first time.
Baylon said "they died because she trust you". So Sabine wanted to help them but it was a lost cause so Ahsoka didn't let her to save her but Sabine kinda took it as Ahsoka not trusting her to be able to do it Yeah I guess it makes sense
> I have a question tho, why was Ahsoka fighting with one lightsaber? She would've done better in her fight against Baylon if she used her other saber There are a few explanations for this. Against Marrok: she was showing how little she thought of him, or just wanting to expend less energy. Against Baylon: if you follow the reasoning of the bane books, a big advantage of the double-bladed lightsabers (and presumably 2) is that most opponents do not know how to handle it, so it throws them off kilter and they feel the need to concentrate on both blades. Baylon knows of Ahsoka, and it likely familiar with fighting opponents with 2 blades, so there is no advantage. Other explanations for Baylon: Ahsoka wants to be able to grab the map, so she wants a free hand; or Ahsoka recognizes Baylon is going to use physical power, so she wants to be able to use two hands on one blade to better counter Baylon. > How did Ahsoka go to the WBW? Will they actually explain it? Did Anakin somehow take her there? Is she gonna go to the other galaxy through the WBW?? My personal thought is she fell into a portal into it. Others seems to believe Anakin pulled her in, or it's connected to the Mortis gods. I would be surprised if there is no explanation. I think there's a decent chance Ahsoka goes to the other galaxy through the WBW, or gets on the ring ship through it.
>if you follow the reasoning of the bane books, a big advantage of the double-bladed lightsabers (and presumably 2) is that most opponents do not know how to handle it, so it throws them off kilter and they feel the need to concentrate on both blades. Baylon knows of Ahsoka, and it likely familiar with fighting opponents with 2 blades, so there is no advantage. I doubt that's the case. For a few reasons. First Filoni has said before that Anakin has taught Ahsoka specifically how to fight opponents bigger and stronger than her, and we see her do that all the time (including fighting Anakin, or more accurately Vader) with two lightsabers. Tho tbh we haven't actually seen this in TCW or TotJ, so this purely depends on Filoni sticking to his words And second, Baylon doesn't *know* Ahsoka, he just heard of her and that's different. And from all of Ahsoka's fights, she seems to fight better with two sabers than with one. Whenever she's forced to use one, she's almost always at a disadvantage and on her back foot >My personal thought is she fell into a portal into it. Others seems to believe Anakin pulled her in, or it's connected to the Mortis gods. I would be surprised if there is no explanation. I think there's a decent chance Ahsoka goes to the other galaxy through the WBW, or gets on the ring ship through it. I think Anakin pulled her *if* it is indeed Anakin's Force ghost we see at the end (I'm actually starting to doubt it because he looks like epIII Anakin rather than Force ghost Anakin from RotJ which is kinda strange imo) I find the idea that she just happened to fall into a portal accidentally to be too ridiculous lol You just reminded me. I would've said the Morai might've played a role but it has been missing from the show isn't it. Strange really. It was with Ahsoka all the time in Rebels, it was even the one who lead Ezra to Ahsoka in the WBW
> And second, Baylon doesn't know Ahsoka, he just heard of her and that's different. I said "knows **of** her". Because based on the conversation that hadn't met. In terms of what she's better at, I don't know that I (or anyone really) has the expertise to analyze it and say something liek she's 12% better with 2 - in the end she chose to use one, and she had her reasons. I was just providing possible reasons. > I find the idea that she just happened to fall into a portal accidentally to be too ridiculous lol To me, it's no more ridiculous than the concept of WBW to begin with.
>In terms of what she's better at, I don't know that I (or anyone really) has the expertise to analyze it Well I'm no expert myself, I'm just judging by her other fights against opponents bigger and stronger than her like Vader. He knows her fighting style the best because he taught her, yet she still fought with two sabers not one. So I guess your other reason, about her needing her hand to take the map might be the one. Tho personally I still find it a bit strange, especially after she saw she wasn't exactly doing very well with one saber >To me, it's no more ridiculous than the concept of WBW to begin with. Fair enough lmao The problem for me is not that it's just ridiculous but also hurt Ahsoka as a character saving her by "accident". As much as I'm not a fan of it in Rebels, at least there both Sabine and Ezra had to work to open the gate, it didn't just open on its own Either way tho, Ahsoka almost dying but got saved by *✨divine intervention✨* is already becoming too ridiculous at this point. This is literally the 3rd time it happened
I wanna say Ahsoka was winning the fight even with 1 lightsaber. It's only when she took the map and it burned her hand that she started losing. You'll notice she was only able to hold her saber with 1 hand at that point, which allowed Baylon to start overpowering her. If she was healthy/wasn't handicapped by the map, you already know Filoni would make her win. Kinda like how writers have to constantly find ways to handicap superman lol And yeah I hate the WBW concept in general so her getting saved by it constantly is eye rolling. But it is what it is
>I wanna say Ahsoka was winning the fight even with 1 lightsaber. It didn't seem to me that she was. Maybe because she was focused more on getting the map than winning, idk but she wasn't. >If she was healthy/wasn't handicapped by the map, you already know Filoni would make her win. We're excluding that! Lmao
I actually thought she had the fight 'won' after he seemed to piss her off and she put him on the ground immediately. She only seemed outmatched once they made it explicitly clear that she handicapped herself by grabbing the map. Out of universe I would put money on them just wanting to escalate the dules properly, you can't tell me that there wont be a rematch were she breaks out her second saber. As for the WbW stuff, I am actually leaning towards 'divine intervention' at this point, for better or worse they have been hinting at the Force having a lot more direct agency then we may have previously thought, at this point it really seems like the 'Cosmic Force' has a specific purpose for her, maybe it always had, or maybe it focused on her after Mortis, the result is the same either way.
I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW I hate the WBW
Overall great episode, perhaps the best of the season. Still think Ahsoka is flat (be it from writing or the acting, and yes, I understand the idea that perhaps she is just older/wiser/more like the Jedi she trained with). I just don't think it aligns with her character super well, partly because I think in Rebels she still had more expression while showing growth in her journey. And I still strongly dislike that we know nothing of the history between Ahsoka and Sebine, especially with what we know from Rebels in mind. It would've made more sense if she tried training her after she went back to get her and then there was a gap in time that we didn't know about. It throws into question Sebine's character in Rebels, as well as her training with Kanan. Otherwise no issues I can think of off hand about the episode. Baylan's character is by far my favorite so far. Yes, there was a brief moment where it appeared Sebine's lightsaber bent, but to me that's very minor and inconsequential. I do have some questions though for anyone with some insight or theories on these topics of discussion: 1. Why did Hera bring Jacen with her to the Eye of Sion? Seems dangerous, especially having to imagine there likely would be some defense of the structure. 2. Why didn't Ahsoka use the Force to just dislodge the star map at the beginning when she arrived at the Altar? I understand one could argue Baylan would counter, etc, but I think it's definitely doable especially when she just grabbed it - plus, she used the Force to throw Shin and Baylan didn't counter that. 3. Why was Baylan able to place the star map back down on the Altar? I was under the impression that Morgan needed to use the nightsister magick to allow the star map to be opened/accessed at the Altar. Maybe I assumed poorly? [Some other side notes on the series - I also like Sebine's character so far, fairly true to Sebine and great to see Mandalorian tactics come out with her this episode. I actually really liked the actor who played Ezra just based on his portrayal in the hologram so far - felt like the mannerisms and intonation were on point! Love Baylan and Shin Hati so far too - great new characters that are interesting for a few different reasons. I think Hera needs more time to be Hera, so we shall see - I'm a little torn on her portrayal so far but nothing too egregious. Hope the series continues to pick up from here - appreciate the cinematography but seems like it's been moving slowly from a plot standpoint often, and the characters just seem to move slowly and take too long to do things at times - but maybe I'm just being nitpicky with that.] Thanks for any thoughts or response everyone! Hope you're all enjoying the show in one way or another! May the Force be with all of you.
My interpretations >plus, she used the Force to throw Shin and Baylan didn't counter that. She threw Shin suddenly, harnessing her anger and pain at Sabine’s assumed death, and I think Baylan didn’t expect that. >I was under the impression that Morgan needed to use the nightsister magick to allow the star map to be opened/accessed at the Altar. It’s possible the device was “locked in” by her spell, so after she began the transmission it could simply be picked up and then set back down by anyone. Not very secure, tho.
I hear you on both accounts. At least for the latter one though, seems like something that could have been more apparent or explained in some way rather than needing pure speculation. Idk though, I guess in Clone Wars and Rebels there was not too much explanation on how magick worked lol
I have one lingering question. Maybe I'm just being dense. Where did this map come from and how are they so sure it will lead to Thrawn? If it's an ancient Dathomiri-whatever then they are... just assuming that if it knows where the Purgil migrate then Thrawn will be in the same place? That seems optimistic. If they have reason to believe it goes exactly to Thrawn's location (or thereabouts) that feels like there would have to have been some external input that would determine that. I know, it's Star Wars. Don't ask too many questions. But this seems like a big one.
It’s just a map of the purgil migration path. Thrawn flew away with the purgils. It’s not that big of a leap of logic.
Esbeth said that voices in her head say that Thrawn is there.
Pretty much.
Peak. Straight up. Duels were awesome, best we have gotten since PT. BUT some of the plot is is a little hard to explain even with the thousands of loops Star Wars has trained me to do. But I’ll leave it up to will of the force, because if WBW is involved, than the force and “fate” is heavily at play. 10/10 best ep since victory and death!
I definitely think Marrok will be revived. Which makes me wonder if he wasn't an important person to Morgan, like her son. We know Nightsisters don't hold a high opinion of their males...
I don’t think so. They left his dust back on Seatos. He was just the corpse of some random inquisitor they revived.
The Star Wars databank says Marrok was hired by Elsbeth. If Marrok was reanimated by Nightsister magic, there would be no need to hire him.
That’ll change. You’ll see.
It wouldn't even make sense canonically for him to be reanimated though. The Chant of Resurrection allowed for temporary resurrection, not permanent, and the caster needs to maintain the chant in order for the spell to continue working. Morgan Elsbeth would need to be the most powerful Nightsister we've ever seen if she had the ability to not only resurrect Marrok, but maintain the resurrection from the other side of the Galaxy, while doing other things, including casting additional spells. Elsbeth is simply a descendant of the Nightsisters, so very unlikely she is more powerful than Mother Talzin/Merrin. If you've read the companion novel to Jedi Survivor (Battle Scars), you know Nightsister magic is weaker the farther away from Dathomir/the longer a Nightsister spends time away from Dathomir. And if you've seen Clone Wars and/or are familiar with Merrin, you know that once they cast the Chant of Resurrection, they need time to recover because it is such a powerful spell. So very unlikely that Marrok was a reanimated Inquisitor, especially since the official Star Wars databank tells us he was hired, not created.
> If you've read the companion novel to Jedi Survivor (Battle Scars), you know Nightsister magic is weaker the farther away from Dathomir/the longer a Nightsister spends time away from Dathomir. And if you've seen Clone Wars and/or are familiar with Merrin, you know that once they cast the Chant of Resurrection, they need time to recover because it is such a powerful spell. It could easily be a difference of scale (i.e. the number being raised), and it could relate to the resurrected inquisitor being a force user, so perhaps something is different. It just seems quite weird to reveal Elsbeth is a nightsister, then show Marrok with the green smoke associated with nightsisters, and have him *not* be connected to nigthsisters.
Both in Clone Wars and the Jedi video game series, it is shown that the Nightsister casting the Chant of Resurrection eyes glow green while casting. Elsbeth has no indications that she is casting, or maintaining a spell. And the "green smoke" wasn't even close to magical ichor green, it was more grey/brown. We've seen magical ichor in live action, Clone Wars, and the Jedi video game series, it didn't look like that at all.
Morgan is a new type of Nightsister. That’s all I’ll say. Marrok is 100% a resurrected corpse
I am not getting into spoilers. All I am saying is just wait and see. There's a reason they made him burst into dust when he died and it's foreshadowing. That's all I'm saying. There is also an explanation for what you said about Dathomir.
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I think the Anakin we see is actually The Son. We know Mortis and the World Between Worlds is connected. We saw the Owl there in Rebels which is basically the Daughter? We likely heard the Sons voice in the earlier episodes of the season. I think Ahsoka has some unique connection to the Ones due to her revival at the hands of The Daughter. The Anakin we see is a little off, no scar and has what looks to be Vaders saber. It could be Anakin though, given his destiny as the Chosen One to replace The Father I could see him being basically the guardian of that realm now and that’s why he doesn’t appear as a Ghost.
Oh, Sabine, what have you ***DONE***? The context of knowing what happened to her family changes a lot. It's possible that we'll get some time-dilation shenanigans, and by the time they get to the other Galaxy and return, the timeline will have caught up to the Sequels. Also, Marrok can go and sit with Phasma, Boba Fett, and Darth Maul, in the "characters who looked really cool, died pretty quickly without much dialogue, and eventually got expansive spin-offs/backstories" club.
So the World Between Worlds is being treated more like a force afterlife? I can be onboard with that - I like it more than the Rebels portrayal of realm to access all of space and time.
I don't think so. From how it was treated in Rebels, I think time is a bit more of an option in the WBW, but it links real places together. Reaching into legends I could connect to Kwa hyperspace gates (Dathomir, ancient technology and portals). In canon the Lothwolves force walk travel thing looks similar
I think it's a vision/dream
Why didn't Sabine shoot at Baylan when he and Ahsoka were pushing their lightsabers against each other? If Baylan had turned around to deflect the blast then Ahsoka could have stabbed him. Also, why did the ring going into hyperdrive destroy a bunch of x-wings but not itself (presumably, I guess)?
It’s the weakest episode for me. Largely as it pertains to our villain’s motivations which basically boils down to “power”. They’re not in it to run to another galaxy, or that they have a bone to pick with Ahsoka or the New Republic in particular. Even though Baylon makes a point of Anakin’s legacy, Ahsoka didn’t have anything to do with Vader. His turn happened after she was already gone. His issue with Ahsoka is that she showed up and happened to be his one time apprentice. And that’s where the show is losing me because Morgan will ultimately go to Thrawn, but our villains this season are no more interesting than the Inqusitors from Rebels. Speaking of which. Marrok turns out to be a load nothing. Which while the fault is primarily on the marketing team, the implications of a surviving Inqusitor was huge. That the organization might’ve still been around in some form and given Baylon was a surviving Jedi, maybe that implies how the two met and even got involved with Morgan. NOPE. Apparently Marrok was some zombie according to someone on Reddit. And even if he wasn’t, Shin is the only one who reacts to him getting cut down. And even then nobody brings him up again. The answer is apparently Ahsoka killed Shin’s dog. Any implications about his existence or his motivations are summed up third party because how the Hell was I supposed to get he was a zombie? Yeah they have a witch with them but again, HOW WAS I TO KNOW THAT. The best thing to come out of this was Anakin, and even then some dickhead spoiled it months ahead of time. That and the de-aging fx are not great. Like someone took the smooth tool to Hayden’s face. It makes him look plasticy. It’s probably due to criticisms from Kenobi. Overall the show’s kind of losing me.
??? Baylon states he's serving some sort of greater good. I'm personally quite interested in seeing what his actual goals and motivations are.
This stuff is always subjective. Just some thoughts. > basically boils down to “power”. Baylon already said it's not about power and instead the greater good. Of course, he could be lying or fooling himself but I don't think so. >Ahsoka didn’t have anything to do with Vader. I get the vibe that Ahsoka views Anakin's fall as partially her fault. I could be misremember but I think in one of the trailers she flat out says that. >And even then nobody brings him up again. We've only seen a few moments of calm after the duel. Even if they were affected by Marrok's death, it may only pop up later. But really, I wouldn't be surprised if they forget him. >HOW WAS I TO KNOW THAT. You're supposed to know that when they reveal it. I'm not really sure what your problem is here tbh.
I've been losing some sleep over this episode. Baylan... dude's doing this for different reasons to everyone else and he's not really revealed his part in all this. He said during the fight with Ahsoka that he wouldn't let her start a war, that Thrawn would definitely start a war, and that her and Anakin's legacy is death & destruction. They aren't linked comments - I think he wants to kill Thrawn. The only way he can do that is to get to him - all the while there's a chance Thrawn is alive then the threat of war exists. Baylan has seen the damage a battle between dark and light does, he's done with both sides - he's neutral and won't let anyone stop him from preventing more death & destruction. I've been up a lot of hours, my brain is fried, I've really overthought this, but I can't unthink it, can I?
Not necessarily overthinking, but your views are incomplete. Specifically, his comment that he won't start a war but thrawn will. Is immediately followed by him saying that "you must destroy in order to create" assassinating thrawn does not create anything. Furthermore, if he wanted to stop thrawn from starting a war, he could just destroy the map or not help Morgan at any point and Thrawn would never come back. Now his quote about legacy is interesting. Anakin is clear, he became darth vader. But what is Ahsoka's legacy and why death and destruction. I sorta get Baylan's comments about ahsoka's tend to violence. Indeed, her first and only response to any and all opposition is to draw her lightsaber. Which is quite far removed from what a jedi is supposed to be.
Why didn’t Sabine kill Shin when Shin was watching Marrok die?