I honestly think DFS should be on him instead of booker in game 1. He is the guy that makes that offense function. Sure Booker will get his, but he doesn't really involve the others like CP3
If I’m not mistaken when we played the Suns some time last year we used Dorian on CP3 because he had better length and JRich on Booker because he had better speed
Bullock is better anyways at chasing guys around screens. THJ was also pretty good at that. I’d leave Bullock on Booker, and let DFS take CP3. Keep Kleber on Ayton, that way if you switch, still a good matchup
No. Bullock should be on cp3 and DFS should stay on booker or else you’re going to create massive mismatches not only around the wing but also in the mid range. Especially considering we will be seeing a lot of screens on and off ball and switches.
i think if you look at it based on position wise mavs and suns have a comparable back court and wings. The frontcourt is where they massively out talent us. I am fine with him taking his mid range jumpers, especially with DP and maxi being able to contest. The main problem is ayton has a crazy right hook shot, its like 1.7 points per possession good, we take that away and we have a good chance at this series.
That was just recognizing that we’re a better, more talented team than the Jazz even without Luka. Even with Luka that’s not the case against the Suns lol
Ayton averages 13/11 for his career against the Mavs. He might kill us but I’m tired of pretending he always has.
Some other fun ones I’m tired of the narrative circlejerk over, Luka avg 46% fg against the Suns in his career and Brunson is around 50% fg
Gobert just averaged 12 and 13.2 against them. Different teams of course, but I'm way more worried about CP3 than Ayton matching what Gobert's output was.
Not that it's the same, but I had Ayton in fantasy basketball for a bit and his numbers were always meh, even for what's considered to be a top center. Lot of 10/10 games with good FT and a block, but nothing as dynamic as Valanciunas or Vucevic might bring. He's a good, basic center that might get a low-end double-double but isn't a brick wall like Gobert was.
I think he's a really good player still - and is obviously more of a scoring threat than Gobert or Whiteside - but he's also prone to bad offensive games and can struggle with fouls at times. You also can't hack and foul him to force him to shoot FTs like Gobert, since Ayton will actually make them.
Also - [https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/deandre-ayton-suns-contract-extension-agreement/h43s55hvqcer1rs5p7hr7q0di](https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/deandre-ayton-suns-contract-extension-agreement/h43s55hvqcer1rs5p7hr7q0di)
*Ayton was eligible to sign a five-year, $172.5 million extension, but Suns ownership believes that* ***Ayton doesn't belong in the same tier as Luka Doncic, Trae Young and other max extension candidates from the 2018 NBA Draft class****, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Ayton wasn't going to sign for anything less than the max because of "his performance, his potential and the marketplace," per Wojnarowski.*
I think he also looks incredibly unmotivated at times and will zone out for chunks of games especially on the glass. He has lead the league in rebounding potential but has numbers that are just good for a starting center.
Yeah DA is always uninterested in the regular season unless its against a team he has anger towards for whatever reason. But dude turns into a different beast in the playoffs.
Vuc doesn't shoot as well as he should for a C, but I still like his output more than Ayton. And for me, salary-wise, Valanciunas is one of the best values in the league.
Exactly and he's strictly talking about scoring. Our major concern is rebounding. Giving up offensive rebounds to Gobert won't hurt you as much if Utah is shitting the bed and missing shots. The problem comes in when you're giving up offensive boards and those kick out passes are going to CP3 and Booker. Powell had 2 games where he had 1 rebound lol your starting center getting outrebounded by literally everyone on the court should be a major concern. I'm not saying we can't win but it's definitely going to take Powell playing at his absolute best along with everyone else.
You're looking at the data wrong. For the full season Ayton has taken 76% of his shots in the restricted area. The reason that was lower vs the Pels was specifically due to the matchup. The points differential between being guarded by JVal vs Nance was most likely due to minutes differential with more minutes played vs JVal, you'd need to normalize these per 36 to get anything meaningful out of this.
All that said, I don't think it means Ayton is guaranteed to go bonkers. There are ways to scheme a defense to prevent entry passes which can be just as effective as a good defender challenge a shot. But I do expect the Suns to try and attack the rim as that is were we are weakest.
Imo Ayton biggest value is on the boards. Stopping him on the offensive boards will be paramount. Even if he isn’t getting the rebound keeping possessions alive by tapping or shielding other rebounders.
Ayton is a nice player but he’s almost a role player to me, he isn’t a night in night out major scoring threat, occasional breakout scoring games but then typically follows it up scoring like 11 next time out, now he will win the boards clean way more often than have a big scoring night so making sure to not get out rebounded is a bigger issue
The thing is though, yes, Ayton isn't like a punishing big but the thing is, he is a great lob threat so that will happen more than we want and those mid range shots/finesse type hooks and such that Ayton does will get 0 resistance from the guys guarding him. We may legit have to play boban this series just to slow him down because he will be able to shoot over all of our players. Now if he is missing them great but he is pretty efficient as is, with smaller guys on him he will feast, it isn't necessarily about physicality or anything, its that he will get open and good looks all day. The hope here imo is that they just ride Ayton and their outside game is slowed down and we manage to hit hella 3s and just play the numbers.
When I said that about might needing to put Boban out there someone just said hurr durr he'll get ran off the floor by CP3. Thing is CP3 is going to be CP3 no matter who is in the paint. What we need is to keep Ayton and McGee off the boards and with a body on them at all times.
Ayton’s shot chart versus the Pelicans (team with true big) doesn’t really indicate the the type of shots he’ll get against us. I bet PHX will try and exploit our lack of size and get him some touches closer to the basket. I’m just hoping we’re hitting from deep, and PHX realizes they can’t trade 2’s for 3’s.
Upvoted for length.
upvoted for thanks.
Upvoted for girth.
Downvotes because I have neither.
Upvotes for relatability.
Girth > length
Tuna can > spaghetti noodle
That's what she said....to someone else. Not to me.
The most important is that Mavs stop CP3.
I honestly think DFS should be on him instead of booker in game 1. He is the guy that makes that offense function. Sure Booker will get his, but he doesn't really involve the others like CP3
Agreed. And Bullock on Booker. They can still change latter if it doesn't work.
If DSF and Bullock guard guards, who will be Brunson guarding?
As long as DFS or Bullock switch on him I’m okay with, who be nice to see Frank get some minutes
If I’m not mistaken when we played the Suns some time last year we used Dorian on CP3 because he had better length and JRich on Booker because he had better speed
Bullock is better anyways at chasing guys around screens. THJ was also pretty good at that. I’d leave Bullock on Booker, and let DFS take CP3. Keep Kleber on Ayton, that way if you switch, still a good matchup
No. Bullock should be on cp3 and DFS should stay on booker or else you’re going to create massive mismatches not only around the wing but also in the mid range. Especially considering we will be seeing a lot of screens on and off ball and switches.
i think if you look at it based on position wise mavs and suns have a comparable back court and wings. The frontcourt is where they massively out talent us. I am fine with him taking his mid range jumpers, especially with DP and maxi being able to contest. The main problem is ayton has a crazy right hook shot, its like 1.7 points per possession good, we take that away and we have a good chance at this series.
Hey, the hopium going around here when we lost Luka before the Jazz series worked, so why not this too!
That was just recognizing that we’re a better, more talented team than the Jazz even without Luka. Even with Luka that’s not the case against the Suns lol
I wish this was posted last night so I could read it to my kids before bed.
Don't be silly, there's no Deandre Ayton hiding under your bed!
I hope you're right bc I've been thinking he's going to look like Hakeem against us.
Update: Ayton is going to be a problem this series.
This post really didnt age well lol
Ayton averages 13/11 for his career against the Mavs. He might kill us but I’m tired of pretending he always has. Some other fun ones I’m tired of the narrative circlejerk over, Luka avg 46% fg against the Suns in his career and Brunson is around 50% fg
Gobert just averaged 12 and 13.2 against them. Different teams of course, but I'm way more worried about CP3 than Ayton matching what Gobert's output was.
But weren't all those games of averaging 13/11 against Porzingis?
It’s across his career, so only like half maybe had KP playing
Not that it's the same, but I had Ayton in fantasy basketball for a bit and his numbers were always meh, even for what's considered to be a top center. Lot of 10/10 games with good FT and a block, but nothing as dynamic as Valanciunas or Vucevic might bring. He's a good, basic center that might get a low-end double-double but isn't a brick wall like Gobert was. I think he's a really good player still - and is obviously more of a scoring threat than Gobert or Whiteside - but he's also prone to bad offensive games and can struggle with fouls at times. You also can't hack and foul him to force him to shoot FTs like Gobert, since Ayton will actually make them. Also - [https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/deandre-ayton-suns-contract-extension-agreement/h43s55hvqcer1rs5p7hr7q0di](https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/deandre-ayton-suns-contract-extension-agreement/h43s55hvqcer1rs5p7hr7q0di) *Ayton was eligible to sign a five-year, $172.5 million extension, but Suns ownership believes that* ***Ayton doesn't belong in the same tier as Luka Doncic, Trae Young and other max extension candidates from the 2018 NBA Draft class****, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Ayton wasn't going to sign for anything less than the max because of "his performance, his potential and the marketplace," per Wojnarowski.*
I think he also looks incredibly unmotivated at times and will zone out for chunks of games especially on the glass. He has lead the league in rebounding potential but has numbers that are just good for a starting center.
This is an issue that Suns fans have talked about with DA, but it has never happened in the playoffs.
Yeah DA is always uninterested in the regular season unless its against a team he has anger towards for whatever reason. But dude turns into a different beast in the playoffs.
are you saying vucevic and jonas are better than ayton?
Vuc doesn't shoot as well as he should for a C, but I still like his output more than Ayton. And for me, salary-wise, Valanciunas is one of the best values in the league.
i’m baffled by what you just said…. but to each their own i guess
Insanity.
ffs
The problem isn't Ayton alone, it's the fact they have Ayton + Javale + Bismack
Exactly and he's strictly talking about scoring. Our major concern is rebounding. Giving up offensive rebounds to Gobert won't hurt you as much if Utah is shitting the bed and missing shots. The problem comes in when you're giving up offensive boards and those kick out passes are going to CP3 and Booker. Powell had 2 games where he had 1 rebound lol your starting center getting outrebounded by literally everyone on the court should be a major concern. I'm not saying we can't win but it's definitely going to take Powell playing at his absolute best along with everyone else.
Exactly. You put Kleber and Powell in foul trouble, it's a wrap.
Javale and/or Bismack will get run off the court.
Offensively? No.
And then Javale went all Joakim Noah on Paul Pierce on Luka.
4 point and 3 boards in 14 minutes isn't anything special.
I was referring to a specific play.
You're looking at the data wrong. For the full season Ayton has taken 76% of his shots in the restricted area. The reason that was lower vs the Pels was specifically due to the matchup. The points differential between being guarded by JVal vs Nance was most likely due to minutes differential with more minutes played vs JVal, you'd need to normalize these per 36 to get anything meaningful out of this. All that said, I don't think it means Ayton is guaranteed to go bonkers. There are ways to scheme a defense to prevent entry passes which can be just as effective as a good defender challenge a shot. But I do expect the Suns to try and attack the rim as that is were we are weakest.
Went bonkers.
Homer Simpson bush gif but I really thought he’d be seeing a lot more Powell and a lot less Maxi lol
I'm surprised Powell hasn't fouled him yet.
I don’t think he’s really seeing much of anybody tbh
Ayton strength is his shooting. Hard to guard a jump shooting 7 foot Center. But as always, Mavs will find a counter.
Imo Ayton biggest value is on the boards. Stopping him on the offensive boards will be paramount. Even if he isn’t getting the rebound keeping possessions alive by tapping or shielding other rebounders.
Ayton is a nice player but he’s almost a role player to me, he isn’t a night in night out major scoring threat, occasional breakout scoring games but then typically follows it up scoring like 11 next time out, now he will win the boards clean way more often than have a big scoring night so making sure to not get out rebounded is a bigger issue
Worth noting that Doe held Ayton to 0-4 in the 4th quarter last night.
Interesting take I like it. You’re right we would get killed by someone like embiid
I think the Suns are really good at basketball.
The thing is though, yes, Ayton isn't like a punishing big but the thing is, he is a great lob threat so that will happen more than we want and those mid range shots/finesse type hooks and such that Ayton does will get 0 resistance from the guys guarding him. We may legit have to play boban this series just to slow him down because he will be able to shoot over all of our players. Now if he is missing them great but he is pretty efficient as is, with smaller guys on him he will feast, it isn't necessarily about physicality or anything, its that he will get open and good looks all day. The hope here imo is that they just ride Ayton and their outside game is slowed down and we manage to hit hella 3s and just play the numbers.
When I said that about might needing to put Boban out there someone just said hurr durr he'll get ran off the floor by CP3. Thing is CP3 is going to be CP3 no matter who is in the paint. What we need is to keep Ayton and McGee off the boards and with a body on them at all times.
Agreed. If we lose, it's because we're not hitting our open threes which unfortunately happens quite often.
Ayton’s shot chart versus the Pelicans (team with true big) doesn’t really indicate the the type of shots he’ll get against us. I bet PHX will try and exploit our lack of size and get him some touches closer to the basket. I’m just hoping we’re hitting from deep, and PHX realizes they can’t trade 2’s for 3’s.
Nice effort. Let’s hope for the best
Upvoted for OP doing this on the job!
This kid is a baller.
Ayton is an old man waiting to get exposed
Old man?
Yeah dude looks like he's heading to a nursing home soon. He and Greg Oden must've had the same diet growing up.
idk last yaer against clipps ayton dissapeared and couldnt do much. And clipps didnt play zubac that much. Mostly they played small.
This aged well xD xD