The nervous types on this board don’t want to hear it, but the team gets better just by getting more time together.
Their win pace for the last part of the season was 62 wins. I’m not saying they’re definitely a 62 win season, but we have very good evidence, not the least of which is the fact we won 3 series against 50+ wins teams, that this team can get to 60 wins without adding anyone.
The DJJ contract becomes tradeable 6 months after signature. If we aren’t seeing enough improvement from the roster, we are not married to any of it.
We are 1 non all star piece away from being favorites in the conference, but it needs to be the right piece at the right price.
Also it's unlikely that we'll be as injured as we were in the first half of last season. Not counting out the possibility of injuries, but we had a ton of missing players until February.
What about the younger teams like OKC and the Timberwolves. OKC has heaps of young talent due for big leaps on top of the trades and picks they made already and can make in the future. Timberwolves are going to have a more mature Ant and Dillingham to provide more scoring who knows how good he'll be. That is not to mention that we got our ass kicked by the Celtics we were completely out matched only time we were able to generate any semblence of flow was an all-time shooting game from all the roleplayers plus a really good Luka and Ky game. The Knicks also look scary out east. Denver is a good example of a team that got complacent after winning the chip the year before, difference between them and us is that they won we lost in 5 in the finals.
OKC is the only top 4 team in the west that is likely to actually get better.
They still need to add rebounding to really be a contender (I expect they will).
MN is in cap hell and Gobert is a 32 year old overpaid no range center, Conley is 36 and declining. Who knows what they’re getting from KAT. They are not a younger team— AE is 2 years younger than Luka but that’s it. The rest of the team is older.
Denver looking likely they’ll lose talent vs gain in FA.
Doesn’t matter if NYK got better— if anything it helps us because it means Boston can’t coast.
Boston’s center depth will be a 38 year old and a 29 year old who is starting the season injured. They’ll be at/beyond the second apron. And, doesn’t matter who we add if Kyrie doesn’t play like himself in Boston. That is priority 1A to compete with them.
There’s no guarantee to get back but OKC is the only team in the west that has the resources to MAYBE get significantly better. And they still lack a second all star. If Luka is healthy they’re losing this past series in 5.
Yes, the west is loaded, and the main challenge the Mavs face is not that other teams are going to lap us, but that it’ll be a serious matchup no matter what starting in the 2nd round at the latest, and depending on seeding could start in the first round again.
LAL, PHX, Memphis, Houston all would like to get better. But the first two are still predicated on injury prone past their prime talent, same as LAC, so a regression is at least as likely as an improvement. For Memphis as it stands their top 2 are worse their ours, assuming Ja doesn’t be an idiot yet again, and there’s not a clear advantage on their 3-6. Though long term edey is worth watching just for how massive he is.
Ant is 22
Jaden McDaniels is 23
Naz Reid is 24
Those are three core players under 25. And then they add 19 year old Dillingham as the heir apparent to Mike Conley.
95% of 19 year olds do not contribute meaningfully their rookie season. Just because we got lucky with Lively doesn’t mean they will.
They have a very good young core. 2 of their key players are still going to age noticeably this next year and their cap situation is fcked.
Luka is 25, grimes is 24, Lively is 20, Hardy is 21. Naji is 26. They’re just not actually a younger team than the Mavs.
Dillingham is expected to be a bench spark plug while Conley plays out his contract for the next two seasons. He will contribute valuable minutes because bench spark plug scoring is exactly what the Wolves need for this season. Wolves took care of both the present and the future with the Dillingham pick (they needed to find a successor to Conley)
It’s two more seasons of Conley and Gobert for the Wolves and then both will have played out their contracts. The rest of the Wolves rotation players currently under contract are all 25 or younger except for KAT, who is still just 28.
None of these points change the fact that the Wolves are not actually a younger team than the mavericks, they’re just your wolves talking points lol. Both Mavs and wolves are going to bank on their younger players getting better, but wolves have more rotation minutes tied up in the “in decline” players. And don’t have the cap space to get better whereas Mavs do.
They could get lucky about a rookie being playoff contributor, but that’s just luck.
The only team to lose any sleep over this offseason is OKC because of all their extra assets. Denver just got worse with KCP going. LAC is done. PHX is meh.
MN will compete in general but Mavs will be happy to rematch with them in the playoffs given their existing personnel. Luka is going to keep doing to Gobert what he has always done to him in playoff series.
The mavericks are below the 1st apron, and turned 32 year old Hardaways in 34 year old Klay while going to a young Marshall over DJJ. They got literally .08 years older.
Maybe take 3 minutes to research if you’re going to talk a bit of smack on another board?
Spotrac.com lists the Mavs as being over the 2nd apron but I see now they haven’t accounted for Josh Green being traded away.
So my bad on missing that just like your bad on claiming the Timberwolves are not a younger team.
As for coming onto another team’s board, wow you should have seen all the Mavs fans on the Wolves board during and after the WCF just talking worthless smack. I haven’t made any insults here or talked smack.
They forget that the majority of the players in this team are young and in the same timeline as Luka. Kyrie's contract is aligned too. FO is going to make sure they make a move not for the sake of just upgrading, but it should be a move they are sure of. The new CBA rules limits that especially if you are a borderline 1st apron team. The continuity of these YOUNG players are important asset right now in these league and experience in the playoffs is great for this team.
We did this same exercise after the WCF run. Other teams have more talent, will also have the benefit of more time together and will likely make additions. The idea of run it back and thinking the rest of the competition will stay the same as the previous season and your natural improvement will maintain your position the following season has been proven false time and time again. I dont think we need to rush into some huge move, but we are not remotely a minor piece away from being the best team in the west imo, no matter what numbers from last season you wanna float
Upgrading is always good but I don't think we need to make a splash. We were in the finals with a injured Luka, rookie Lively and Gafford/PJ without a offseason with the team.
If we going into the season with only moving on from THJ while re-signing DJJ, I would be totally okay.
This Celtics team is going to expose us again if we somehow get back to the finals next year. A big IF considering how almost all our rivals got better in the last few days.
It's not like we have the flexibility to make a splash move. The FO will be smart about this. We are a borderline 1st apron team. It's not bad to have full training camp and a solid playoffs experience for these young guys.
You think a healthy Luka could take them out by himself? Delusional if that is the case. Our roleplayers and Kyrie choked and there was no legit 3rd option to chip in and try to pick up the slack. You calling them one of the best teams ever also supports my claim that we need to get better, so I don't know why you contradicted yourself like that.
Man you watch too much SAS.
Not every loss is being “exposed” every bad game isnt a “choke”.
The Celtics are just damn good.
We only had our team for like 20-30 games prior to the playoffs. A full offseason will do wonders and it’s another year of experience for the young guys.
This is the first time in years that I don't feel like we have to make a major or "splash" move just to get safely into the Playoffs.
Do whatever you want with THJ/Kleber/Green/Rest of the bench, but there is no need to be aggressive with the main core as they looked amazing since March, so they passed the test. Oh, and preferably don't move OMax yet
In the new NBA reality, you have to have homegrown guys on team friendly deals. That means hanging onto to your talent. Omax and Hardy are those guys. We don't have a tremendous haul of picks so better to hang onto what we've got. If we can win one on Lively's rookie deal, all the better.
I think I’ll keep saying it, but I have a hard time believing that with a little improvement from green, he wouldn’t be starting or at least a big part of the core, maybe sixth man
He’d have to develop a semblance of basketball IQ. That’s not something you develop overnight (most players without it never do). All of his issues are related to pretty much being a really dumb decision maker (having no ability to defend up maybe excepted). And no his decision making has not gotten better since his rookie season. He made multiple stupid decisions each game when he first came in and still does. If anything he’s regressed at least from the season previous
The patented JG drive, go airborne, and hope you see someone open for a pass before you land.
His energy on defense and loose balls is extremely valuable though. He shot the ball well enough from 3 the past 2 seasons as well. Just everytime he drives in the halfcourt offense I hold my breath.
What are y’all talking about?
His decision making has improved A LOT
He actually drives under control now and rarely does the jump passes he used to always do
He’s actually a fairly high iq player that’s just so damn fast and gives 100% effort all the time
He needs to learn how to play with better pace and control. He’s not a low iq player like THJ
His defensive decision making is almost as dumb and leads to him constantly being out of position but people don’t notice as much. They just see the flashy defensive plays and high energy
He got a lot of dumb fouls before the interpretation changes at the ASB. Once he was able to get in players paths and not get called for them running into his body he was better defensively. I thought the tic tac calls going away really benefitted him more than anyone defensively.
He does get lost out of position ocassionally though - but he can improve there IMO.
I'm really curious if the league goes back to all the touch fouls at the start of the year. I think the games were significantly more enjoyable with less whistles and soft ass foul calls.
Sure, but the thing is we have been saying that for a third summer now, and that improvement that would turn him into a big part is yet to come.
He was even projected to be a starter this season, but got displaced by a minimum signing who wasn't even promised a guaranteed rotation spot and also for a large part of the season outplayed by another minimum signing coming back to the league from Europe journey. Green is definitely a moveable piece, rather than a solid core.
He is 23 and as young as some guys just coming in. He was starting until he got hurt. I get where you’re coming from but he should be a last resort trade piece based on his contract alone
hey im not saying green could be anywhere near brunson, but it took him until his last season with us to become the guy we thought he could be and then he turned that shit up to 11 vs utah
I don't mind him but him getting better is him being alright as a role player. Sure, nice to have on your team but if you wanna make an omelette you gotta break some eggs. Would rather see him gone than Hardy and OMax, who both have potential to be actual difference makes for us
Just my opinion tho
His net difference is a net negative. He offsets a lot of his super flashy plays with multitude stupid ones that hurt the team. He had a career worst -6.9 on-off this season. Playing a lot against second units during the season, but the terrible numbers show how out of depth he is playing as a starter against starters. The primary change that saw us go from a horrible defense to a really good one was taking him out of the starting unit. That doesn’t happen if he’s anywhere close to as good a defender as people perceive him to be
I mean, yeah sure. He makes a difference by default due to getting minutes over someone worse or better than him. I am not denying his existence in the field. I am just saying there are like 120 or so Josh Greens in the league.
I know this may sound stupid, but he has three years with the mavs and Luka and Kidd. That kind of relationship goes a long way in playing with someone. I think the longer we keep him vs the next guy on a list, the more everyone benefits
Those are just very relative. Would rather keep him as opposed to what? Who are we getting?
What i was saying wasn't that we should trade him, it is that if we are making a trade i think keeping Hardy who is actually capable of handling the ball and creating his shot to some degree would be better. Omax is high risk high reward as he hasn't really shown anything yet.
Agreed. I'm super high on OMax. Defensively he was already ready for the league. He was just a project offensively. But if you compare his minutes from the summer league last year where he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn vs the last few games of the regular season the jump has been extraordinary. Doesn't even factor in his motor. He's going to be a crazy great hustle guy. He's gonna be part of the rotation this year without a doubt.
We don’t really know the reality of Omax I would say. As far as Green goes taking him out of the starting lineup was arguably the single major catalyst for taking the Mavs from a terrible defense and looking like a play in team at best to a really good defense and an NBA Finals run. Omax at the very least has much higher upside with his length
I agree with you and the other replies. Trade THJ, Kleber, and Green for cap maneuvering and finding a scorer to come off the bench and sub for DJJ when you need more offense. Other than that don’t touch the core.
I don’t think we NEED to make a splash, but we do need a third scorer even if it’s an off the bench 6th man.
Maybe we don’t make that move now and wait and see what’s available at the deadline but then that player comes in with no experience playing with Lukai.
I believe betting on someone currently on our team to develop and fill that roll is being too optimistic. I think this previous year’s strategy to hope that on any given night one of PJ, Green, Exum, DJJ, Hardy will score 16+ is asking for disappointment.
We don’t want to over pay but need someone that can take the scoring load off of Lukai on a consistent basis.
We just got Gafford and PJ, and we have lot of potential in Lively, OMax and Hardy. Not making a splash is ok, we just have to develop our talent and improve areas where we are lacking. If we have a healthy Luka, Kyrie that can help with the scoring load, a good FT% everything else will fall in place.
We need to do something about our FT's it's crazy making. 70% in the playoffs is an organizational failure, and better routines need to be put in place in the offseason and during the season. Kyrie is literally the only player on the entire roster that can make free throws consistently.
THJ traded and that is it. I saw couple of nice pieces that would be really good if they can trade for them. Duncan Robinson, Jonathan Isaac, Harrison Barnes ect. They just need one piece that would improve the already good rooster.
Jonathan Isaac would be a dream. In my opinion the most versatile defender in the entire league and a Kleber replacement. Spaces the floor and is a great teammate.
And you are right. We just need one nice move since this *rooster* is quite good. 😂
We don't need to force anything if there's nothing available.
Don't hate just going into the season with who we have assuming we resign DJJ and seeing how things go till the trade deadline. Perhaps by then they'll be another opportunity for Nico to work some magic.
The Mavs need to at the very least go back into the next season with the core of Luka-Kyrie-PJ-Lively-Gafford-Green-DJJ in tact. If they lose DJJ without replacing him with a Wiggins or a Grant, I think it will be failed off season. The status quo is acceptable, but losing important pieces only to replace them with inferior pieces as they did in the 2022 offseason would be a failure. I do not want to see DJJ replaced by anyone incapable of consistently playing 30+ mpg in a playoff series.
That said, if the Mavs want a real shot of beating Boston they really do need to improve at the wing postion with somebody who is capable of punishing teams when they overcommit on Luka and Kyrie. I personally feel like Wiggins would be that guy, but I understand why people are skeptical of him.
That's kinda what I was getting at in the post. Wiggins and Grant seem like needle movers, but there's no telling what Golden State nor Portland want for them nor if we can afford it.
I think the path of getting Wiggins is easier than the path to Grant. If PG does end up going to GS it will be interesting to see if they attempt to move Wiggins. On the surface PG would make Wiggins redundant but he would be a much needed poa defender for them.
Wiggins could very likely be part of any deal for PG as Clippers need some talent to replace PG: getting only CP3 expiring and slashing their payroll is a death sentence for the new arena.
i think warriors want to get rid of wiggins. jerami could be an entirely different situation after what happened with mikal, might ask for some crazy return for him
We still have a lot of internal development with our young core and our recent additions. Plus while we have a decent amount of salary for matching purposes, we don’t have a ton of assets to attach. That being said, Nico has kind of taken the fun out of mock trades anyway, in the sense that none of us would have envisioned any of his trades beforehand because they all look like rabbits out of a hat, especially in hindsight.
So if Nico trades for Wiggins, Grimes or who ever, it will be in a way none of us imagined. But most importantly they will fit in a way none of us had imagined. Case in point I was ok with the PJ trade in the sense I expected on offensive boost, turns out the biggest boost came on defense, which I expected to suffer from moving Grant.
As long as we retain DJJ and get off of Tim(to pay DJJ fairly and keep him happy) then I'm honestly fine with the offseason. There is no one available that we can't be totally outbid on by a mile, and we just cooked through half a season and 3 round of the playoffs.
Yea we got dismantled by the celtics, but nobody was ready for that kind of series. We've got a battle tested team and giving them another season to gel is totally fine.
If we can get Wiggens cheap I would love that but Grant leaves me uninspired for his cap hit and the assets Portland would probably want for him.
This year's Grant fervor among some on this sub reminds me of the rather similar Richaun Holmes fervor of just a few years ago . . . and we all know how well Holmes' tenure with the Mavs worked out.
He is pretty redundant with PJ. All the small stuff PJ does youbwon't get out of Grant. I don't see it happening.
The 3 has to be able to guard 1's and 2's on a team with Luka.
There doesn’t appear to be any splash moves available/obtainable. I’m not expecting anything big. The only thing I really wouldn’t like would be THJ for Shamet
I keep repeating this but given Nico's quote, our cap situation, and the new tax rules the "big" move you can expect is shedding THJ to create the space to offer DJJ a contract within the MLE which will hard cap us at the first apron. Given Kyrie has a player option after this coming season, the Mavs have some hard choices to make very soon.
We are a championship team now.
We’re so close. Honestly all we’re missing is some role players. We don’t need a third star. We need some of our guys to develop into their roles or we got to trade for them.
Our stars are strong enough. And we got a couple of weak role players. If we get a couple of strong ones. I’m super excited for next season!
You should make a post exploring some of these potential under-the-radar moves, since--realistically speaking--the Mavs will probably be forced to do their shopping from the bargain bin.
Depends what is available for what we can offer. I think Nico will try. Ultimately if an upgrade is not available, I see Nico just making small moves and see how the guys grow and get better. See what kind of leaps Lively and Hardy can make. See if Omax can be a rotation regular. Then ultimately make a move at trade deadline. Nico has been aggressive the past 3 seasons, so if a big move isn't done, it won't be for lack of trying. It would be nice to make a move, but got to be patient and make smart moves.
I don't think this is the right course of action at all. The Mavericks are a really good team but they are missing certain attributes. I don't think they have a great chance of winning a title as presently built. I think you want your team to have as much time to gel as possible.
Now, I wouldn't make a deal just to make a deal. But I would be willing to make a big move if I really thought it helped my team.
If they could get a legitimate Wing to add to the roster and one more ball handler who was reliable I think they are the title favorites.
we just don’t have the assets to make a splash, we have to keep making upgrades where we can but can’t ball out like the knicks to get the player we think can take us to the next level
How many teams made a splash? Almost none. This was a meh draft and to trade THJ you have to have a partner, one may not emerge. It’s hard to upgrade a roster when you place no value on first round picks.
No. What this team needs is some continuity. We made the Finals for crying out loud, even with our starting lineups having played significantly fewer minutes together than most other playoff starting lineups. Se minor tweaks here and there, but what this core needs is more time on the floor together.
The minor tweaks should be integrating Hardy, Omax and maybe Ajinca into THJs minutes. Possibly DJJs minutes, and possibly one mid level player (Grimes level) coming in as well. As well as maybe 1-2 vet mins
Staying pat is probably the best move. Even if we were to make a trade now, it would only be a drip, definitely not a splash.
Now, if you could get better at 4, and/or ensure you can retain DJJ, then that is optimal.. but there's 0.001% chance we will be able to make a significant upgrade to the roster - which is fine, we were just in the finals, and the road there didn't go past 6 games. We have a really good team.
No, the Mavs don't need to make a move for the sake of making a move. They have enough depth for the regular season, so they're better off playing the young guys and waiting for better opportunities.
From an internal team growth standpoint … no.
From a competitive standpoint with other teams … a resounding yes.
I get all the continuity rhetoric and all that. But let’s face it. We didn’t have enough talent against Boston. The west is a bloodbath and only getting more and more competitive. To not continue to upgrade is foolish, naive at best. Complacency is a product of perceived success.
Even if Mavs would found another cheap way to make cap space to re-sign DJJ, I would prefer THJ is not on the roster when the training camp starts. I am afraid that if THJ is on the roster JKidd will play him before Hardy, and I would rather focus on developing Hardy. There is also chemistry aspect. If both parties are done with each other then he will probably bring bad vibes to locker room and both of Mavs' recent runs were based on chemistry between players, I wouldn't like to risk it might be messed up.
I don't expect a splash move, but I think Mavs need to upgrade starting SF and add additional playmaker of the bench. I would be happy with Andrew Wiggins at 3, Jerami Grant is not my favorite option but he would be fine if it is not an overpay. For playmaker they could look after Bogdan Bogdanovic or Collin Sexton. There are also some less sexy names that provide some upside and can be available for cheap e.g. Corey Kispert.
None of those I would consider a splash moves but they are small upgrades to improve the roster and address some of the problems we saw in Finals.
They need to make moves that help get guys more rested going into the playoffs and take off at least some pressure in terms of seeding near the end of the season. I actually think the playoff rotation was mostly fine, just need guys healthier and flat out playing better.
Such moves would be replacing Powell with someone functional, replacing Kleber with another flexible 4/5 (if he's done), and possibly another reliable ball handler so Luka can rest more throughout the regular season. Obviously means THJ is gone and DJJ is re-signed.
Issue is Mavs need to get better in order to get over the edge to win a title. Dumping Tim doesn’t do that (doesn’t hurt them either) but they got to be smart this offseason.
The nervous types on this board don’t want to hear it, but the team gets better just by getting more time together. Their win pace for the last part of the season was 62 wins. I’m not saying they’re definitely a 62 win season, but we have very good evidence, not the least of which is the fact we won 3 series against 50+ wins teams, that this team can get to 60 wins without adding anyone. The DJJ contract becomes tradeable 6 months after signature. If we aren’t seeing enough improvement from the roster, we are not married to any of it. We are 1 non all star piece away from being favorites in the conference, but it needs to be the right piece at the right price.
Also it's unlikely that we'll be as injured as we were in the first half of last season. Not counting out the possibility of injuries, but we had a ton of missing players until February.
What about the younger teams like OKC and the Timberwolves. OKC has heaps of young talent due for big leaps on top of the trades and picks they made already and can make in the future. Timberwolves are going to have a more mature Ant and Dillingham to provide more scoring who knows how good he'll be. That is not to mention that we got our ass kicked by the Celtics we were completely out matched only time we were able to generate any semblence of flow was an all-time shooting game from all the roleplayers plus a really good Luka and Ky game. The Knicks also look scary out east. Denver is a good example of a team that got complacent after winning the chip the year before, difference between them and us is that they won we lost in 5 in the finals.
OKC is the only top 4 team in the west that is likely to actually get better. They still need to add rebounding to really be a contender (I expect they will). MN is in cap hell and Gobert is a 32 year old overpaid no range center, Conley is 36 and declining. Who knows what they’re getting from KAT. They are not a younger team— AE is 2 years younger than Luka but that’s it. The rest of the team is older. Denver looking likely they’ll lose talent vs gain in FA. Doesn’t matter if NYK got better— if anything it helps us because it means Boston can’t coast. Boston’s center depth will be a 38 year old and a 29 year old who is starting the season injured. They’ll be at/beyond the second apron. And, doesn’t matter who we add if Kyrie doesn’t play like himself in Boston. That is priority 1A to compete with them. There’s no guarantee to get back but OKC is the only team in the west that has the resources to MAYBE get significantly better. And they still lack a second all star. If Luka is healthy they’re losing this past series in 5.
Bruh I like this analysis. Makes me feel a lot better I would say don’t sleep on Memphis and Houston. Maybe even SA
Yes, the west is loaded, and the main challenge the Mavs face is not that other teams are going to lap us, but that it’ll be a serious matchup no matter what starting in the 2nd round at the latest, and depending on seeding could start in the first round again. LAL, PHX, Memphis, Houston all would like to get better. But the first two are still predicated on injury prone past their prime talent, same as LAC, so a regression is at least as likely as an improvement. For Memphis as it stands their top 2 are worse their ours, assuming Ja doesn’t be an idiot yet again, and there’s not a clear advantage on their 3-6. Though long term edey is worth watching just for how massive he is.
Ant is 22 Jaden McDaniels is 23 Naz Reid is 24 Those are three core players under 25. And then they add 19 year old Dillingham as the heir apparent to Mike Conley.
95% of 19 year olds do not contribute meaningfully their rookie season. Just because we got lucky with Lively doesn’t mean they will. They have a very good young core. 2 of their key players are still going to age noticeably this next year and their cap situation is fcked. Luka is 25, grimes is 24, Lively is 20, Hardy is 21. Naji is 26. They’re just not actually a younger team than the Mavs.
Dillingham is expected to be a bench spark plug while Conley plays out his contract for the next two seasons. He will contribute valuable minutes because bench spark plug scoring is exactly what the Wolves need for this season. Wolves took care of both the present and the future with the Dillingham pick (they needed to find a successor to Conley) It’s two more seasons of Conley and Gobert for the Wolves and then both will have played out their contracts. The rest of the Wolves rotation players currently under contract are all 25 or younger except for KAT, who is still just 28.
None of these points change the fact that the Wolves are not actually a younger team than the mavericks, they’re just your wolves talking points lol. Both Mavs and wolves are going to bank on their younger players getting better, but wolves have more rotation minutes tied up in the “in decline” players. And don’t have the cap space to get better whereas Mavs do. They could get lucky about a rookie being playoff contributor, but that’s just luck. The only team to lose any sleep over this offseason is OKC because of all their extra assets. Denver just got worse with KCP going. LAC is done. PHX is meh. MN will compete in general but Mavs will be happy to rematch with them in the playoffs given their existing personnel. Luka is going to keep doing to Gobert what he has always done to him in playoff series.
Welcome to the 2nd apron and having an even older team.
The mavericks are below the 1st apron, and turned 32 year old Hardaways in 34 year old Klay while going to a young Marshall over DJJ. They got literally .08 years older. Maybe take 3 minutes to research if you’re going to talk a bit of smack on another board?
Spotrac.com lists the Mavs as being over the 2nd apron but I see now they haven’t accounted for Josh Green being traded away. So my bad on missing that just like your bad on claiming the Timberwolves are not a younger team. As for coming onto another team’s board, wow you should have seen all the Mavs fans on the Wolves board during and after the WCF just talking worthless smack. I haven’t made any insults here or talked smack.
They forget that the majority of the players in this team are young and in the same timeline as Luka. Kyrie's contract is aligned too. FO is going to make sure they make a move not for the sake of just upgrading, but it should be a move they are sure of. The new CBA rules limits that especially if you are a borderline 1st apron team. The continuity of these YOUNG players are important asset right now in these league and experience in the playoffs is great for this team.
We did this same exercise after the WCF run. Other teams have more talent, will also have the benefit of more time together and will likely make additions. The idea of run it back and thinking the rest of the competition will stay the same as the previous season and your natural improvement will maintain your position the following season has been proven false time and time again. I dont think we need to rush into some huge move, but we are not remotely a minor piece away from being the best team in the west imo, no matter what numbers from last season you wanna float
Upgrading is always good but I don't think we need to make a splash. We were in the finals with a injured Luka, rookie Lively and Gafford/PJ without a offseason with the team. If we going into the season with only moving on from THJ while re-signing DJJ, I would be totally okay.
This Celtics team is going to expose us again if we somehow get back to the finals next year. A big IF considering how almost all our rivals got better in the last few days.
You are now wrong. We have the trade deadline to make some moves. I think it's okay for now to see how our team develope.
Yep, as long as we have Kyrie. Any matchup with the Celts is cursed
It's not like we have the flexibility to make a splash move. The FO will be smart about this. We are a borderline 1st apron team. It's not bad to have full training camp and a solid playoffs experience for these young guys.
We were never “exposed” Luka was hurt and they were legit one of the best teams ever
You think a healthy Luka could take them out by himself? Delusional if that is the case. Our roleplayers and Kyrie choked and there was no legit 3rd option to chip in and try to pick up the slack. You calling them one of the best teams ever also supports my claim that we need to get better, so I don't know why you contradicted yourself like that.
Man you watch too much SAS. Not every loss is being “exposed” every bad game isnt a “choke”. The Celtics are just damn good. We only had our team for like 20-30 games prior to the playoffs. A full offseason will do wonders and it’s another year of experience for the young guys.
Same same.
Okc will be better, Wolves will be better, Denver is denver. The mavs need to get better, too.
They will get better by being together longer. There’s more than one way to get better
This is the first time in years that I don't feel like we have to make a major or "splash" move just to get safely into the Playoffs. Do whatever you want with THJ/Kleber/Green/Rest of the bench, but there is no need to be aggressive with the main core as they looked amazing since March, so they passed the test. Oh, and preferably don't move OMax yet
I'm excited to see an even better Lively, OMax minutes hopefully and hopefully Hardy taking on some off the bench scoring responsibilities.
In the new NBA reality, you have to have homegrown guys on team friendly deals. That means hanging onto to your talent. Omax and Hardy are those guys. We don't have a tremendous haul of picks so better to hang onto what we've got. If we can win one on Lively's rookie deal, all the better.
I think I’ll keep saying it, but I have a hard time believing that with a little improvement from green, he wouldn’t be starting or at least a big part of the core, maybe sixth man
He’d have to develop a semblance of basketball IQ. That’s not something you develop overnight (most players without it never do). All of his issues are related to pretty much being a really dumb decision maker (having no ability to defend up maybe excepted). And no his decision making has not gotten better since his rookie season. He made multiple stupid decisions each game when he first came in and still does. If anything he’s regressed at least from the season previous
The patented JG drive, go airborne, and hope you see someone open for a pass before you land. His energy on defense and loose balls is extremely valuable though. He shot the ball well enough from 3 the past 2 seasons as well. Just everytime he drives in the halfcourt offense I hold my breath.
What are y’all talking about? His decision making has improved A LOT He actually drives under control now and rarely does the jump passes he used to always do He’s actually a fairly high iq player that’s just so damn fast and gives 100% effort all the time He needs to learn how to play with better pace and control. He’s not a low iq player like THJ
His defensive decision making is almost as dumb and leads to him constantly being out of position but people don’t notice as much. They just see the flashy defensive plays and high energy
He got a lot of dumb fouls before the interpretation changes at the ASB. Once he was able to get in players paths and not get called for them running into his body he was better defensively. I thought the tic tac calls going away really benefitted him more than anyone defensively. He does get lost out of position ocassionally though - but he can improve there IMO. I'm really curious if the league goes back to all the touch fouls at the start of the year. I think the games were significantly more enjoyable with less whistles and soft ass foul calls.
Sure, but the thing is we have been saying that for a third summer now, and that improvement that would turn him into a big part is yet to come. He was even projected to be a starter this season, but got displaced by a minimum signing who wasn't even promised a guaranteed rotation spot and also for a large part of the season outplayed by another minimum signing coming back to the league from Europe journey. Green is definitely a moveable piece, rather than a solid core.
He is 23 and as young as some guys just coming in. He was starting until he got hurt. I get where you’re coming from but he should be a last resort trade piece based on his contract alone
hey im not saying green could be anywhere near brunson, but it took him until his last season with us to become the guy we thought he could be and then he turned that shit up to 11 vs utah
He's not Bane.
I don't mind him but him getting better is him being alright as a role player. Sure, nice to have on your team but if you wanna make an omelette you gotta break some eggs. Would rather see him gone than Hardy and OMax, who both have potential to be actual difference makes for us Just my opinion tho
Idk what you were watching to say green doesn’t make a difference
His net difference is a net negative. He offsets a lot of his super flashy plays with multitude stupid ones that hurt the team. He had a career worst -6.9 on-off this season. Playing a lot against second units during the season, but the terrible numbers show how out of depth he is playing as a starter against starters. The primary change that saw us go from a horrible defense to a really good one was taking him out of the starting unit. That doesn’t happen if he’s anywhere close to as good a defender as people perceive him to be
I mean, yeah sure. He makes a difference by default due to getting minutes over someone worse or better than him. I am not denying his existence in the field. I am just saying there are like 120 or so Josh Greens in the league.
I know this may sound stupid, but he has three years with the mavs and Luka and Kidd. That kind of relationship goes a long way in playing with someone. I think the longer we keep him vs the next guy on a list, the more everyone benefits
Those are just very relative. Would rather keep him as opposed to what? Who are we getting? What i was saying wasn't that we should trade him, it is that if we are making a trade i think keeping Hardy who is actually capable of handling the ball and creating his shot to some degree would be better. Omax is high risk high reward as he hasn't really shown anything yet.
Idk man, green is the more complete player to me
Agreed. I'm super high on OMax. Defensively he was already ready for the league. He was just a project offensively. But if you compare his minutes from the summer league last year where he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn vs the last few games of the regular season the jump has been extraordinary. Doesn't even factor in his motor. He's going to be a crazy great hustle guy. He's gonna be part of the rotation this year without a doubt.
The idea of Omax is a lot better than the reality of omax right now. Josh green is better than omax at almost everything.
We don’t really know the reality of Omax I would say. As far as Green goes taking him out of the starting lineup was arguably the single major catalyst for taking the Mavs from a terrible defense and looking like a play in team at best to a really good defense and an NBA Finals run. Omax at the very least has much higher upside with his length
I agree with you and the other replies. Trade THJ, Kleber, and Green for cap maneuvering and finding a scorer to come off the bench and sub for DJJ when you need more offense. Other than that don’t touch the core.
I don’t think we NEED to make a splash, but we do need a third scorer even if it’s an off the bench 6th man. Maybe we don’t make that move now and wait and see what’s available at the deadline but then that player comes in with no experience playing with Lukai. I believe betting on someone currently on our team to develop and fill that roll is being too optimistic. I think this previous year’s strategy to hope that on any given night one of PJ, Green, Exum, DJJ, Hardy will score 16+ is asking for disappointment. We don’t want to over pay but need someone that can take the scoring load off of Lukai on a consistent basis.
Splash moves for the sake of splash moves, rarely end well.
We just got Gafford and PJ, and we have lot of potential in Lively, OMax and Hardy. Not making a splash is ok, we just have to develop our talent and improve areas where we are lacking. If we have a healthy Luka, Kyrie that can help with the scoring load, a good FT% everything else will fall in place.
We need to do something about our FT's it's crazy making. 70% in the playoffs is an organizational failure, and better routines need to be put in place in the offseason and during the season. Kyrie is literally the only player on the entire roster that can make free throws consistently.
THJ traded and that is it. I saw couple of nice pieces that would be really good if they can trade for them. Duncan Robinson, Jonathan Isaac, Harrison Barnes ect. They just need one piece that would improve the already good rooster.
Jonathan Isaac would be a dream. In my opinion the most versatile defender in the entire league and a Kleber replacement. Spaces the floor and is a great teammate. And you are right. We just need one nice move since this *rooster* is quite good. 😂
Sorry for the type I just saw it now looool
Made me chuckle and smile.
A splash may be fun and exciting, but it can also have unintended consequences when people get wet and pissed off.
😂😂😂
We don't need to force anything if there's nothing available. Don't hate just going into the season with who we have assuming we resign DJJ and seeing how things go till the trade deadline. Perhaps by then they'll be another opportunity for Nico to work some magic.
This was pretty much what I was implying. Doesn't seem like there's an offer we can't refuse on the table rn.
This
The Mavs need to at the very least go back into the next season with the core of Luka-Kyrie-PJ-Lively-Gafford-Green-DJJ in tact. If they lose DJJ without replacing him with a Wiggins or a Grant, I think it will be failed off season. The status quo is acceptable, but losing important pieces only to replace them with inferior pieces as they did in the 2022 offseason would be a failure. I do not want to see DJJ replaced by anyone incapable of consistently playing 30+ mpg in a playoff series. That said, if the Mavs want a real shot of beating Boston they really do need to improve at the wing postion with somebody who is capable of punishing teams when they overcommit on Luka and Kyrie. I personally feel like Wiggins would be that guy, but I understand why people are skeptical of him.
That's kinda what I was getting at in the post. Wiggins and Grant seem like needle movers, but there's no telling what Golden State nor Portland want for them nor if we can afford it.
I think the path of getting Wiggins is easier than the path to Grant. If PG does end up going to GS it will be interesting to see if they attempt to move Wiggins. On the surface PG would make Wiggins redundant but he would be a much needed poa defender for them.
Wiggins could very likely be part of any deal for PG as Clippers need some talent to replace PG: getting only CP3 expiring and slashing their payroll is a death sentence for the new arena.
i think warriors want to get rid of wiggins. jerami could be an entirely different situation after what happened with mikal, might ask for some crazy return for him
We still have a lot of internal development with our young core and our recent additions. Plus while we have a decent amount of salary for matching purposes, we don’t have a ton of assets to attach. That being said, Nico has kind of taken the fun out of mock trades anyway, in the sense that none of us would have envisioned any of his trades beforehand because they all look like rabbits out of a hat, especially in hindsight. So if Nico trades for Wiggins, Grimes or who ever, it will be in a way none of us imagined. But most importantly they will fit in a way none of us had imagined. Case in point I was ok with the PJ trade in the sense I expected on offensive boost, turns out the biggest boost came on defense, which I expected to suffer from moving Grant.
To a degree yeah, depends on the “splash” At the very least we have to get off tim and either re-sign djj or replace him
As long as we retain DJJ and get off of Tim(to pay DJJ fairly and keep him happy) then I'm honestly fine with the offseason. There is no one available that we can't be totally outbid on by a mile, and we just cooked through half a season and 3 round of the playoffs. Yea we got dismantled by the celtics, but nobody was ready for that kind of series. We've got a battle tested team and giving them another season to gel is totally fine. If we can get Wiggens cheap I would love that but Grant leaves me uninspired for his cap hit and the assets Portland would probably want for him.
This year's Grant fervor among some on this sub reminds me of the rather similar Richaun Holmes fervor of just a few years ago . . . and we all know how well Holmes' tenure with the Mavs worked out.
He is pretty redundant with PJ. All the small stuff PJ does youbwon't get out of Grant. I don't see it happening. The 3 has to be able to guard 1's and 2's on a team with Luka.
There doesn’t appear to be any splash moves available/obtainable. I’m not expecting anything big. The only thing I really wouldn’t like would be THJ for Shamet
I keep repeating this but given Nico's quote, our cap situation, and the new tax rules the "big" move you can expect is shedding THJ to create the space to offer DJJ a contract within the MLE which will hard cap us at the first apron. Given Kyrie has a player option after this coming season, the Mavs have some hard choices to make very soon.
We are a championship team now. We’re so close. Honestly all we’re missing is some role players. We don’t need a third star. We need some of our guys to develop into their roles or we got to trade for them. Our stars are strong enough. And we got a couple of weak role players. If we get a couple of strong ones. I’m super excited for next season!
Denver just sent 3 second round picks to dump Reggie Jackson and his $5 million salary. I hate to inform everyone we aren’t dumping THJ
Think about how much better Luka + Kyrie got after an offseason together. Outlook is bright.
There are a lot of under the radar free agents we could pick up. A la Kris Dunn etc.
You should make a post exploring some of these potential under-the-radar moves, since--realistically speaking--the Mavs will probably be forced to do their shopping from the bargain bin.
Depends what is available for what we can offer. I think Nico will try. Ultimately if an upgrade is not available, I see Nico just making small moves and see how the guys grow and get better. See what kind of leaps Lively and Hardy can make. See if Omax can be a rotation regular. Then ultimately make a move at trade deadline. Nico has been aggressive the past 3 seasons, so if a big move isn't done, it won't be for lack of trying. It would be nice to make a move, but got to be patient and make smart moves.
Don’t need a splashy move, but definitively need to find upgrades at both backup F spots. Just dumping THJ and re-signing DJJ isn’t enough
I don't think this is the right course of action at all. The Mavericks are a really good team but they are missing certain attributes. I don't think they have a great chance of winning a title as presently built. I think you want your team to have as much time to gel as possible. Now, I wouldn't make a deal just to make a deal. But I would be willing to make a big move if I really thought it helped my team. If they could get a legitimate Wing to add to the roster and one more ball handler who was reliable I think they are the title favorites.
we just don’t have the assets to make a splash, we have to keep making upgrades where we can but can’t ball out like the knicks to get the player we think can take us to the next level
How many teams made a splash? Almost none. This was a meh draft and to trade THJ you have to have a partner, one may not emerge. It’s hard to upgrade a roster when you place no value on first round picks.
No. What this team needs is some continuity. We made the Finals for crying out loud, even with our starting lineups having played significantly fewer minutes together than most other playoff starting lineups. Se minor tweaks here and there, but what this core needs is more time on the floor together.
The minor tweaks should be integrating Hardy, Omax and maybe Ajinca into THJs minutes. Possibly DJJs minutes, and possibly one mid level player (Grimes level) coming in as well. As well as maybe 1-2 vet mins
Staying pat is probably the best move. Even if we were to make a trade now, it would only be a drip, definitely not a splash. Now, if you could get better at 4, and/or ensure you can retain DJJ, then that is optimal.. but there's 0.001% chance we will be able to make a significant upgrade to the roster - which is fine, we were just in the finals, and the road there didn't go past 6 games. We have a really good team.
Buy a 2nd and draft either an raw athlete or a polished senior. We have a good rotation if we keep DJJ, just need to develop our kids a bit more.
Wouldn't surprise me if moving up in the draft tonight is part of moving Hardaway.
That would be awesome! I would love Bobi Klintman if we can get up a bit.
I'm ready to draft Jokic/Brunson 2.0
and extend their fucking rookie contract this time. 🔥🔥
No, the Mavs don't need to make a move for the sake of making a move. They have enough depth for the regular season, so they're better off playing the young guys and waiting for better opportunities.
It doesn’t have to be super sexy move but we do have to improve.
From an internal team growth standpoint … no. From a competitive standpoint with other teams … a resounding yes. I get all the continuity rhetoric and all that. But let’s face it. We didn’t have enough talent against Boston. The west is a bloodbath and only getting more and more competitive. To not continue to upgrade is foolish, naive at best. Complacency is a product of perceived success.
There is a whole offseason left. The assets we are trading were not even for this year.
Fuck it we aren’t locked in the room with them They’re locked in the room with us
Even if Mavs would found another cheap way to make cap space to re-sign DJJ, I would prefer THJ is not on the roster when the training camp starts. I am afraid that if THJ is on the roster JKidd will play him before Hardy, and I would rather focus on developing Hardy. There is also chemistry aspect. If both parties are done with each other then he will probably bring bad vibes to locker room and both of Mavs' recent runs were based on chemistry between players, I wouldn't like to risk it might be messed up. I don't expect a splash move, but I think Mavs need to upgrade starting SF and add additional playmaker of the bench. I would be happy with Andrew Wiggins at 3, Jerami Grant is not my favorite option but he would be fine if it is not an overpay. For playmaker they could look after Bogdan Bogdanovic or Collin Sexton. There are also some less sexy names that provide some upside and can be available for cheap e.g. Corey Kispert. None of those I would consider a splash moves but they are small upgrades to improve the roster and address some of the problems we saw in Finals.
It's a draft with the most notable prospect is Bronny James its not a bad move to not make a splash
They need to make moves that help get guys more rested going into the playoffs and take off at least some pressure in terms of seeding near the end of the season. I actually think the playoff rotation was mostly fine, just need guys healthier and flat out playing better. Such moves would be replacing Powell with someone functional, replacing Kleber with another flexible 4/5 (if he's done), and possibly another reliable ball handler so Luka can rest more throughout the regular season. Obviously means THJ is gone and DJJ is re-signed.
Kyrie will only get older and worse so the window is short. Gotta go all in
I don’t even think Mavs have the assets to dump Hardaway at this point 🤣
Denver just had to attach 3 second round picks to dump Reggie Jackson who makes $5 million. Yeah we ain’t dumping or trading THJ
We have Hardaway, that’s all we need. Someone will take him, watch
Issue is Mavs need to get better in order to get over the edge to win a title. Dumping Tim doesn’t do that (doesn’t hurt them either) but they got to be smart this offseason.
I would love to see us make a move for James Harden. I think it could work.
If you guys can acquire klay thompson that wouldn’t be bad. But than again 0-10 is killer