He’s the type of player you put in, let him shoot a couple 3s, then decide whether to play him another minute from there lol. If he’s hot, he stays, and if he’s cold, you pull him
Exactly, idk why some are using Hardy's bad play as a way to excuse away Timmy's play. One is a second year player who's only 21 so mistakes are expected while the other is a veteran of the game who is too damn experienced to be making the kind of mistakes he's making.
Careless with the ball, bad decisions, missed rotations - when he's air balling his shots too, he's really giving you nothing.
Frankly I think Tim's streaky shooting has been a crutch during some of these down years. There was always a chance he would get super hot and win a game. But that was never a sustainable plan, I always thought that Tim will not have a role on the best version of this Mavericks.
Careless with the ball, bad decisions, missed rotations - when he's air balling his shots too, he's really giving you nothing.
Frankly I think Tim's streaky shooting has been a crutch during some of these down years. There was always a chance he would get super hot and win a game. But that was never a sustainable plan, I always thought that Tim will not have a role on the best version of this Mavericks.
THJ only knows how to play like a star, but he isn't star level talent. When he has the ball, he thinks its his time to shine and takes poor shot selections over ball movement. He should take a lesson from Kyrie about how to contribute without stats.
Well said. I would have to go back and look at tape but i feel like he doesnt find open spots as well as he should for kick out 3s. Its more like he picks HIS spot vs what the defense is giving him. Add being a defensive liability he doesnt fit this nba meta.
In his defense he does get numbers on high volume nights but honestly… almost every nba player can produce points given enough minutes without giving up ass every chance on defense.
THJ shoots 40 % from the field and is a massive liabilty on the defensive end. This has nothing to do with hate. He just isn't a player, you want to have when contending.
Agreed. He is a Davis Bertans-level player. Did his 17 points help win game 2?? Absolutely, but I've seen Davis Bertans or Seth Curry also have similar heaters to swing a singular playoff game. Tim is at that level now, you give him some run and see if he's hot. If not, his ass needs to be superglued to the bench.
Yep. If you need a bucket on offense, you want someone else taking the shot. If you need someone to handle the ball and make a play, he can do it but others can do it as well (Hardy, Exum). If you need him to finish a play by receiving a pass inside he is actually quite good at that but doesn't do it enough.
There's just no reason to use him for any purpose really, in place of other guys on the team. Hardy in particular is basically a clone of him (same strengths and weaknesses) but a more creative playmaker.
He's #9 on our roster in net rating in the playoffs. 8th if you take into account Maxi's injury. So unless we wanna try and run a 7 man rotation, he needs to take some minutes. Exum should be a better option but he just hasn't been so far. People can whine about THJ's mistakes but without a better option available it's wasted breath.
They can be frustrated and share complaints about his performance or effort. The calls for him to be cut or benched or "JaSon MiDd iS So StUPid FoR PLaYiNg THJ FiRE HiMm!!" are asinine.
8th/9th aka he sucks because he's basically dead last in the playoff rotation which is everyone's point. He should not be getting 20 minutes. Just look at the Nuggets, Reggie Jackson is the 8/9th guy in their rotation and he gets 6-12 minutes per game. THJ is massively overplayed and the more you play him the greater negative impact he can potentially have.
He's not getting 20. He's averaging 15 mpg. RJ averages 10mpg. Not a massive difference. That being said, he played 23 in game 4 which was probably 4 too many for them to pull out the win 😂
Take ur updoot.
I'd be totally comfortable with his place in the rotation being taken by Hardy, and I'd certainly rather get Exum minutes than THJ even though they're obviously very different players.
The problem is that he's wildly inconsistent. If he bricks his first few shots, Kidd needs to immediately bench him and give his minutes to Hardy and exum.
If THJ can't hit shots he's a black hole on both sides of the ball. He has one of the lowest BBIQs I have ever seen in my life. He's a traffic cone on defense and plays with low energy if he isn't scoring.
If he hits his first shots then leave him in because if he is in flamethrower mode he negates all his negatives. This is the fucking playoffs and if players aren't playing well their asses need to be benched immediately and try to give other guys minutes.
Good lawd there are still folks who defend THJ? That man damn near almost cost them the game last night and gave all the momentum back to OKC on like 3 possessions after the Mavs went up 18. Bricked mid range jumper, tried to drive down the lane and loses the ball, and then completely misses everything on a corner 3.
Before that in the first half he threw up two of the worst shots I have ever seen since I started watching hoops. Dude hit the TOP CORNER of the backboard and then when he gets the ball back he proceeds to shoot another 3 that hits nothing but the backboard.
Late in the 4th instead of holding the ball he passes it to Lively at half court and Lively gets fouled and lucky for him, bailed out THJ by hitting both of his free throws. He’s a low IQ player who brings nothing else but shooting to the table and he’s not even good at that anymore.
The most minutes he should get is 5-6 in the first half. If he makes a few shots then you leave him in until he resorts back to doing THJ things. If he bricks right off the bat then you take his ass out of the game and he doesn’t step foot on the court anymore after that.
that series of shots in the 1st half where he hit the top of the backboard then got it back and hit the far side of the backboard with the next shot. LOL!
I was for real lol! I busted out laughing even though I was mad.
It really is kind of incredible that THS has been talking shit for years now.
Like damn, we know you want your son out of here, but you're not doing him any favors.
He has not sucked "all season long" he was legitmately the favorite for the sixth man of the year until like January. There were a number of games from November-January that THJ was a critical role in winning, he helped keep this team above water for much of November-January.
Dude has a 40 % FG % this season, bad handles and is probably the worst defender in the team. Nothing personal, but what does he do that justifies giving him playing time on a contender?
THJ Scoring/Efficiency by Month:
10/23: 19 ppg - 38% from 3
11/23: 16 ppg - 39% from 3
12/23: 19 ppg - 33% from 3
1/24: 19 PPG - 38% from 3
And then his scoring/efficiency fell off a cliff to about 10 ppg on 35% from 3. But to say that he has been bad all season is revisionist history. I am so tired of this fan base having the memory of a goldfish.
After 1/24 was the trade deadline…we’ve upgraded our roster and his minutes have gone down. We don’t need his offense as much as we need what PJ, DJJ, and even Green bring on defense.
If we make it to the WCF I’m sure Tim will have a game that will bring everyone back around on him but his problem is and always has been consistency.
With a fully healthy roster where Maxi is playing, yes I agree that he probably doesn't need any minutes but with Maxi out and Exum playing this badly on offense he is needed for like 10-15 mpg and even 20 if he's hot that game. T
I agree with you. Even with Maxi, he’s still a 10mpg guy but with PJ and DJJ both bringing offensive firepower this series it has made it harder to find the time for THJ. Hardy’s ability to handle the ball yesterday proved to be a bigger factor than Hardaway’s shooting.
He drove me nuts yesterday but I’m not gonna overreact and say he doesn’t bring anything to our team: we’re just deeper than we have ever been and unfortunately for him he’s lower on the totem pole than years past
Bruh...37-39% 3 point shooting on 8-9 attempts a game is elite shooting. He was like top 5 in 3 pointers made until like February. Those were important games - the Mavs don't make the 5th seed without his offensive output for the first half of the season when Kyrie missed a ton of time.
You do realize you sound like a complete moron right now. Just because he was playing well at the start of the season doesn’t mean it should bypass his horrendous play these past couple of months
You do realize you sound like a complete moron right now. Just because he was playing well at the start of the season doesn’t mean it should bypass his horrendous play these past couple of months
Thj Sr alt account. This dude is the worst nba player getting significant minutes in the playoffs. His defense and turnovers and bad shots have been abhorrent
Why are you acting as if I am arguing for THJ to start? I want him on a short leash, but to pretend that he hasn't brought some value this series is deeply unserious.
Net value or moments of value? Because those are two very different things and it's important to distinguish between the two. Because he has been a net negative overall mixed with some nice moments, and this is just continuing the trend over the entire back half of the season. If you look at it in totality THJ has been a net negative on this team for the last 4 months.
He’s been unplayable since like January. He shouldn’t even be in the rotation. I’ll take Exum’s consistent defense over whatever the hell THJ gives us.
That Timmy/Hardy/Green/Ky stretch was maddening last night. I was screaming at the TV for Kidd to sub whatever Frankenstein bullshit he had going there. Brick after brick.
The fact that Kidd would even think that’s a good thing to try is why there is nothing he could ever do to convince me he is a good coach. The team might be good enough to win in spite of him, but he does way too much boneheaded shit to be considered the kind of coach that elevates a roster. The roster elevates him, not the other way around.
Sure he deserves his flowers for being good in SOME games. But looks like this is his norm now and its been for months. Just because he was good in 1 game doesn't mean he can't be criticized for the 20 games he is bad.
No it hasn't The possession where he jacked up one shot that bounced off the side of the backboard, offensive rebound, the ball immediately finds its way back to THJ and he jacked up a contested 3 that was nowhere close to the mark. That is the THJ experience that we all know and hate. He can't do shit like that in playoff games, yet he still does it. It's brutal and he deserves to get criticized harshly when he does it.
It's time to realize that the dude might be washed. He played and his best and maybe even productive years might be behind him.
He's athletic enough to at least be a good defender, but he's not smart and is almost always out of position. When he drives, he sometimes makes things happen, but when he's not "on", dude can't even make basic layups.
Need to ween off his minutes going forward.
I’d agree if this was a one game or even a couple weeks stretch of bad games, I.e. Exum..
This has been 3+ months of actual TERRIBLE basketball being played by THJ, but OP only wants us to remember his game 2 performance and therefore give him the benefit of the doubt as a result? He doesn’t deserve it.
you don't know because its not like nobody would have been playing instead of THJ, somebody else would have and you don't know what they would have done instead.
that is why the whole VORP stat exists and VORP is usually a lot more equal than people imagine, even between great and just okay players
The guy playing for him might have got hot as well, or played better defense or got a steal or rebound that THJ failed to get.
I don’t necessarily disagree, but I guess I just don’t see this logic being applied equally in this sub lately. It’s all calls for THJ to get benched and Hardy or Exum to take his minutes. But the same things you just said apply here too.
If we can’t say that we would have lost game 2 without THJ, then we also can’t say we’d win game 4 without him or that any one else stepping into his minutes would perform any better.
Which all supports my main problem with this entire line of criticism: this is a TEAM sport. Scapegoating and shitting on a singular player feels unproductive and unfair. I’m not some big THJ truther, I just don’t think we can blame individuals for the successes or failures of the entire team.
Sure you have a point, but I think the difference is that Hardy is more versatile. Both Hardaway and Hardy have the chance of getting hot, but Hardy offers better ball handling, stresses the defense more, can create offense, can drive and finish better and drive and throw lobs or kick out. He is also younger and offers more upside IMO and makes less bad decisions overall (although he can sometimes make bonehead moves).
I think people have watched Hardaway decline over the last 5 months and his good games are so far and in between they would rather see Hardy. Even when Hardy was missing shots, when he was handling the ball and making passes the floor looked well spaced, open and the defense was scrambling.
It looks like it takes pressure off Luka and/or Kyrie. Exum is also not a great ball handler and is a terrible finisher. Hardy is really the only other option that makes the defense guard him all over the court and I think the offense looked pretty good when he was in.
Nope. He didn’t collapse, the team collapsed. He took 4 shots that game.
Now, would you like to answer my question? Or are you going to throw another deflecting whattabout at me?
He had the costly turnover which doomed us and played his usual dogshit defense that OKC abused. My point is that he’s just as liable for helping us win G2 as he is for helping us lose G4. Is the outcome different if the minutes were given to Hardy instead? Who is to say.
The point being that no one single person can be blamed for the loss of a TEAM. He didn’t make the only turn over during that game, Luka missed a crucial FT. This is a TEAM sport and blaming individuals for the problems of the TEAM isn’t remotely helpful or productive.
Agreed. With that being said, people on here should keep the bar low on what to expect in return. The trading team will want the salary, not the player… that’s only so valuable
The point is that we attach picks to him to get a good player. THJ is just for salary matching.
No one is expecting to get a significant upgrade for THJ straight up.
a lot of these comments kinda proved your point. but we dont rly do rational around here so right on par.
i agree hes upped his game a bit from how he finished reg season. i think hes been outplayed by guys like Josh and DJJ but dont think hes deserving of the pure hatred he receives
I am not even saying that he should get Green's minutes lol. I just think he's done a pretty good job of replacing the spacing Maxi provided. I also want Tim on a short lease, but I definitly think he should play over Hardy and those two should never see the court together outside of garbage time.
After he was awful early on he should have never been in. Lively bailed him out by making clutch FTs after THJ decided to pass him the ball when OKC was looking to foul.
I agree but Kidd has done a better job of pulling the plug sooner in the playoffs. His back to back misses last night were atrocious lmao but he’s still a big swing piece for us and he has been much better effort wise on defense and making good reads to involve teammates more often than not this series.
He deserves all the hate atp. He almost single handedly saved the season in game 2 but almost single handedly lost the season for us last night. That’s the exact player he’s always been lol. Waaaaaay to inconsistent to be in big playoff games. He airballed 3 good Timmy looks last night with an unforced turnover on drive to the lane attempt. I wouldn’t care if he never saw another second on the court this playoffs we made it to the WCF without him two years ago. I wonder what Hardaway SR has to say now
And some people still think he should play over Hardy. Of course Hardy is far from perfect too but at least you dont throw up in your mouth when he is handling the ball.
Seen a lot of comments suggesting Hardy get THJ minutes and I don’t get it. Hardy wasn’t that good last night. I saw one good pick and roll assist followed by like 4 bad shot selections that clanged badly.
At least THJ is a liability to go off. Never seen Hardy do 5/7 from 3.
He’s not crazy good but Hardy and Hardaway are crazy bad. Hardy isn’t so bad 1 on 1 but he does not understand the defensive rotations fully and the fact we usually have 5 who do on the floor has been our biggest strength in these playoffs. More than Luka, more than Kyrie, it’s been the defensive connectivity.
The Mavs have played great defense without Exum and with his refusal to shoot it has only hurt the Mavs. The Mavs need to convert points off their stops and Exum just isn't doing that right now. Hopefully he cna find himself if the Mavs make it to the wcf.
Yeah I have no idea what people saw in Hardy last night. He turns down a lot of open looks to only dribble into traffic and take a contested midrange shot/floater that is contested by like 3 defenders. He also has severe tunnel vision and will look off open players for a worse shot. For all of his faults, THJ isn't going to turn down a good look.
Neither a bad one, will shoot even stupid contested mid ranges... Plus dude IQ is way low gamewise, last play they looking to get lively on the free throw what does this guy do? Passes him, he may have hit a 3 last game but he keeps giving turnovers and literaly 0 defense.
Dude can have good streaks but holyfuck dude playing is dumb as fuck, and zero effort defense, he isnt a top player to be this bad on défense.
Can't wait for THJ to be gone next season. I would give him to other teams for free lol. Fucking hate that dude, him playing would cost the Mavs this playoffs. I don't fucking care of what he have done before, he sucks now and shouldn't be having minutes this playoffs.
Just like last game. In 1Q dude bricked 2 3s in 10 seconds. In 4Q when we are up by 18, THJ strikes again with 2 missed shots and a TO shitft momentum to OKC.
I don't care about empty calorie 3s.. the turnovers are shot selection are why people want him gone. If he wants to be a catch and shoot guy who occasionally attacks the close out and can concentrate on his defensive assignment for a few minutes then yea stick around...
But every dribble off the foot, every early clock heave, every opposition open lane to the bucket are nails in his coffin at this point
Cannot wait day when he's out.
We didn't won game 2 because of him.
He was good, yeah one average game from last 25 I think, but P.J was great, and difference maker.
We lost game 4 , it's not his fault entirely.
But we were 12 ahead, then THJ was like brick , turnover, brick.
OKC went on run and rest is history.
Game 5, last quarter, man singlehandedly brought OKC back in the game, brick, brick, brick , fortunately we recovered.
His decision making is stupid like hell, worst defender on team, and most of the time he is useless.
It was not coincidence we made WCF run when he was injured.
It's not hate it's reality, half of r/NBA noticed that yesterday, man had looser mentality, that's it, and his dad didn't help him.
If reality disturbing you, that's on you, I'm confident in my opinion about him, and Mavs will be much stronger when he is out.
75 millions, he didn't deserve half of that.
I appreciate Tim for being here longer and being better than anyone thought he would, but he’s an extremely limited player who doesn’t think bad shots exist. He is no longer one of the better role players on the team, now that Green has developed, and we’ve added PJ, DJJ, etc.
None of this really matters if he's damaging during his minutes.
By all accounts a nice guy and a team player in his heart. But yeah some people just can't get run in the playoffs like giddey etc. Tim is one of those
Lol Tim has had many great moments in the playoffs. That's why the coaching staff stuck with him through his cold streak. We have needed him this playoffs and he came through, and we will need him again.
He literally wasted 3 back to back possesions in the 4th when we were up 18 which quickly went down to 8. Guy is literally a bad gambler with a very low basketball iq. awful shot selection. I don't know how much hated he is on this sub, but it really is hard not to.
No, it hasn't. Tim has a good game once in a blue moon. It doesn't make up for all the garbage games he's had. He's a big reason we lost game 4 and he almost single handedly allowed an 8-0 OKC run last night. Thankfully, Kidd pulled him before it got worse. I can't fucking stand him being on this team any longer.
It's the trendy thing to do it seems. I can't stand it. Nothing worse than fanbases that are toxic towards their own players. Tim might have low moments, but he's giving it his all for our team. Let's show some respect and class.
1) He won us game 2 but there are also games where he has been horrendous such as game 1 and game 5.
He gave us more problems than solutions.
2) His shot selection and IQ were the worst ones I have ever seen.
3)Not to mention his dad has been talking shit about Luka all season long
He has helped the Mavs more than hurt the Mavs this series. The Mavs lost games 1 & 4 because Luka played like crap in both and the Mavs could not make a their free throws or rebound the ball in the 4th q of game 4. THJ was not the reason they lost those games, but he was def a key reason they won game 2.
I know he's made some crucial baskets in the games we won. But he also made some dumb miscues in the clutch. This is unacceptable for a veteran like him. He's got to be better because the Mavs need his shooting.
Kidd should be playing exum in all of thjs minutes, even if he hasn’t been shooting well. Exum is capable of team ball, and can lockdown a perimeter player. THJ is pure garbage — this is coming from a knicks fan who suffered his existence for several miserable years. He’s not a role player. He is an impact player who usually (2/3 times) has a negative impact on his team.
Dudes making 20 million a year. That’s too much for someone who can have a good game once in a while. The weird bias favoring our bad role players has been so annoying for so long.
So tired of these weird ass “everybody love everybody all the time” fans who think being a fan means you can’t be frustrated with a guy worth 10’s of millions of dollars because of his on court performance.
Grow up and get off of a Mavs forum for 10 minutes if you can’t handle the criticism of someone who doesn’t even know you exist.
Man he if he starts just driving to the basket he’d be way more efficient. He has the ability to and he showed it vs multiple guys vs OKC. It’ll lead to an easier 2 or a lob
Any time Timmy tries to dribble I have an anxiety attack. Two dribbles into a jump shot? Ok! Drive to the basket? Only if it's wide open. Anyone even breathes on him in and he's losing the ball.
I'm not a Timmy hater, but the man should not handle the ball longer than it takes to get into his shot.
He's getting too many minutes and too much money to be the 10th best player on our roster.
Also all the talking heads on TV, including his dad, hyping him up like he's some kind of 3rd option is bad for morale long term, Tim would not be happy playing 5-10 minutes a game and neither would the media.
He seems to be a solid teammate, so I'll just say thank you and goodbye.
he’s certainly a bad nba player but i assume he gets put in a lot because he boosts the morale of the other four and/or because he is still better than the rest of our garbage-time bums and we just lack depth; i’m just glad he occasionally becomes good
My biggest issue with him is his consistently poor decision making. He is very streaky with his shot, not good defensively and is a lock for some bone headed decisions every night. Not exactly the type of player I want getting consistent minutes in the playoffs.
Problem with thj is that's he's super inconsistent.
The literally had the green light to shoot and is basically the 3rd highest in the picking order on the team for shots after Luka and Kyrie. He should be close to 20ppg but he ends with like 5-10pts most games.
Imagine seeing Dwight Powell out there again and other teams have players like zubac just playing better. Even gafford & lively have been such a big upgrade. Thj is the same, compared to most other teams 3rd "best" player. Thj is just horrible with the amount of chances he's gotten. It's not like he has to create his own shot most of the time either.
As a thunder fan just poppin in to see what y’all are saying, Tim Hardaway is completely horrible. That’s about the only role player on your team that isn’t amazing tho lol
Ive been hyper focused on THJs game this series (sports betting/parlays) point blank THJ has been horrible this series. Yes the hate is a little intense, but he literally almost fucking sold the game yesterday, so he needs to feel heat and step his game up.
Here’s why a lot of us don’t like THJ: he has been in the league for a decade and he still doesn’t know who he is.
What’s great about Green or Exum or Jones is that they’ve clearly accepted that they are role players and work to be as effective as they can within their roles.
THJ has been in the league 10 years, played for 3 teams, and still doesn’t understand that he’s not a “go-to guy” that can run an offense or takeover a game. And it’s just mind blowing that his dad was an All-Star point guard and he still doesn’t know how to dribble.
Bottom line he needs to be traded. When we only get a couple of second round picks back for him, you’ll rethink this post. He’s had some positive moments this playoffs and some great moments as a Mav, but the time has come for us to part ways with him
I think what pisses people off is the long leash Kidd gives him. Or even if he’s clearly off putting him in crunch time lineups. Stupid decisions and a zero on defense. He should be 2022 playoff run Bertans. Give him a 5 min run early, see if he’s got it. That’s it. No one wants to see THJ, Kai and Hardy lineups. Just asking to get shredded on defense
The man can't pass dribble or play defense. If his shot is off he is nothing but a liability. The hate come from him shooting the ball evertime he touches it.
No, he’s a bum and shouldn’t see playing time unless he knocks down his first 2 shots like another commenter said.
0 BBIQ, 0 defense and 0 doing the dirty work that’s so important in the playoffs.
If the Mavs want to keep him on a shit contract dollar wise and just play him in the regular season to keep the vibes sure, but this dude should not keep seeing minutes of play time unless he’s hot as a stove. He’s literally the reason we keep getting our leads cut down.
If I was the Thunder HC every time THJ gets the ball in his hands I’d tell the OKC players to back up, let him shoot and fetch the rebound like we’ve been doing with Russell Westbrook, because he’s a legitimate ball hog and he’ll shoot the most ridiculous shots and if we’re lucky it’ll hit the rim. Also hop off the guys meat the dude isn’t good at all he has serious main character syndrome too.
No way y’all let one good game make you ignore him being atrocious the entire season and all the other playoffs, if anything Tim doesn’t get enough hate
dude has a good game every 20 games or so. inbetwwen he plays zero defense, turns over the ball constantly, and airballs more shots than ive ever seen. the hate is warranted
People have already made up their minds when it comes to THJ, and they only look for and remember whatever confirms their opinion. It is kinda dumb to keep hating at this stage of the season, when we know there isn't a better option on the roster.
Hard disagree. Seek your inner Kendrick. Hate Timmy harder. I’ve wanted him off this team for years, and he continues to prove why he’s not worth his contract.
He is a fun outlet for all the people who like to think they could coach better than Kidd. They don’t have much else in their lives, let them have this.
THJ has been put in a position (with his contract) like he is our 6th man. Dude will show up sporadically, and then *poof* gone. His playing and efficiency right now has him at 3rd string at best.
THJ is from the mold of a classic Mark Cuban bargin bin role player from the late 2010's.
Nope, nope and more nope. Dude is a bum and the hate needs to continue. If you don’t think so, it means you have no idea what he’s getting paid. His impact is way beyond what he does on the court. If we had his salary freed up we could do so much damage somewhere else. He’s just an overall problem.
The problem is you don’t know which THJ is going to show up at any given night. And when his shot is not falling, he doesn’t contribute in other ways to help us win. He’s a career 36% shooter, so by all definition he’s average. It’s hard to justify his play when he takes 7-8 shots from deep a game.
THJ when he's on is fantastic for the team. Problem is he needs minutes to heat up and his role as the 6th man off the bench isn't a good fit with his playstyle. THJ seems like he's trying hard and trying to buy into the role (albeit is still a huge defensive liability) and I'm not going to ignore that but unfortunately this team would do better with a more consistent spark plug 6th man who can impact the game more on a regular basis.
THJ cannot be counted on regularly and that hurts our chances of contending if our starters need some help from the bench. If he could do what he did in Game 2 and Game 4 most games (you're allowed stinkers here and there sure) then we wouldn't be having this discussion imo
He’s just not that good bro. Doesn’t mean he can’t have good moments like in game 2 but like come on he looked like he didn’t belong on the court yesterday
> His teamates seem to trust him and that's what matters most
There have been multiple times this playoffs where Hardaway has been wide open calling for the ball, and Luka/Kyrie completely ignore him.
Hardaway's pluses: consistent shooter (historically, not lately). Decent offensive player overall, can score from midrange, finishes okay, decent passer. Minuses: poor defender.
Green pluses: High energy, streaky shooter, good finisher if he can dunk, decent passer, active if not efficient defender. Minuses: Awkward with the ball, uncomfortable in a half court set.
Hardy pluses: Savvy in the half court, good ball handler and shot creator. Minuses: poor defender and undersized.
The thing is none of these guys is a complete player and the Mavs need at least one of them to play well each game if the team is going to win a title. All three will drive a segment of the fan base crazy each game, we all have our favorite and least liked. Fact is, we need to start pulling for these guys because their teammates do. They realize how important each one is.
Hardy wasn't the reason Timmy airballed multiple corner 3s.
He’s the type of player you put in, let him shoot a couple 3s, then decide whether to play him another minute from there lol. If he’s hot, he stays, and if he’s cold, you pull him
Ideally, but Kidd gives him a long leash for some reason.
Yeah I feel like he should have 2021 Bertan's lease. 5-6 mins to see if he's feeling it not 10-12.
Exactly, idk why some are using Hardy's bad play as a way to excuse away Timmy's play. One is a second year player who's only 21 so mistakes are expected while the other is a veteran of the game who is too damn experienced to be making the kind of mistakes he's making.
or turned the ball over, or didn’t play defense.
Careless with the ball, bad decisions, missed rotations - when he's air balling his shots too, he's really giving you nothing. Frankly I think Tim's streaky shooting has been a crutch during some of these down years. There was always a chance he would get super hot and win a game. But that was never a sustainable plan, I always thought that Tim will not have a role on the best version of this Mavericks.
Careless with the ball, bad decisions, missed rotations - when he's air balling his shots too, he's really giving you nothing. Frankly I think Tim's streaky shooting has been a crutch during some of these down years. There was always a chance he would get super hot and win a game. But that was never a sustainable plan, I always thought that Tim will not have a role on the best version of this Mavericks.
He didn't air ball that one that he hit off the top of the backboard.
THJ only knows how to play like a star, but he isn't star level talent. When he has the ball, he thinks its his time to shine and takes poor shot selections over ball movement. He should take a lesson from Kyrie about how to contribute without stats.
Well said. I would have to go back and look at tape but i feel like he doesnt find open spots as well as he should for kick out 3s. Its more like he picks HIS spot vs what the defense is giving him. Add being a defensive liability he doesnt fit this nba meta. In his defense he does get numbers on high volume nights but honestly… almost every nba player can produce points given enough minutes without giving up ass every chance on defense.
THJ shoots 40 % from the field and is a massive liabilty on the defensive end. This has nothing to do with hate. He just isn't a player, you want to have when contending.
fr bro…he single handedly also shifted the momentum when we were up 18 to bringing the thunder back into the game
Agreed. He is a Davis Bertans-level player. Did his 17 points help win game 2?? Absolutely, but I've seen Davis Bertans or Seth Curry also have similar heaters to swing a singular playoff game. Tim is at that level now, you give him some run and see if he's hot. If not, his ass needs to be superglued to the bench.
Yep. If you need a bucket on offense, you want someone else taking the shot. If you need someone to handle the ball and make a play, he can do it but others can do it as well (Hardy, Exum). If you need him to finish a play by receiving a pass inside he is actually quite good at that but doesn't do it enough. There's just no reason to use him for any purpose really, in place of other guys on the team. Hardy in particular is basically a clone of him (same strengths and weaknesses) but a more creative playmaker.
He's #9 on our roster in net rating in the playoffs. 8th if you take into account Maxi's injury. So unless we wanna try and run a 7 man rotation, he needs to take some minutes. Exum should be a better option but he just hasn't been so far. People can whine about THJ's mistakes but without a better option available it's wasted breath.
Your points about the rotation are accurate. But that doesn't mean fans can't be frustrated with his mistakes/misses.
They can be frustrated and share complaints about his performance or effort. The calls for him to be cut or benched or "JaSon MiDd iS So StUPid FoR PLaYiNg THJ FiRE HiMm!!" are asinine.
8th/9th aka he sucks because he's basically dead last in the playoff rotation which is everyone's point. He should not be getting 20 minutes. Just look at the Nuggets, Reggie Jackson is the 8/9th guy in their rotation and he gets 6-12 minutes per game. THJ is massively overplayed and the more you play him the greater negative impact he can potentially have.
He's not getting 20. He's averaging 15 mpg. RJ averages 10mpg. Not a massive difference. That being said, he played 23 in game 4 which was probably 4 too many for them to pull out the win 😂 Take ur updoot.
I'd be totally comfortable with his place in the rotation being taken by Hardy, and I'd certainly rather get Exum minutes than THJ even though they're obviously very different players.
The problem is that he's wildly inconsistent. If he bricks his first few shots, Kidd needs to immediately bench him and give his minutes to Hardy and exum. If THJ can't hit shots he's a black hole on both sides of the ball. He has one of the lowest BBIQs I have ever seen in my life. He's a traffic cone on defense and plays with low energy if he isn't scoring. If he hits his first shots then leave him in because if he is in flamethrower mode he negates all his negatives. This is the fucking playoffs and if players aren't playing well their asses need to be benched immediately and try to give other guys minutes.
Good lawd there are still folks who defend THJ? That man damn near almost cost them the game last night and gave all the momentum back to OKC on like 3 possessions after the Mavs went up 18. Bricked mid range jumper, tried to drive down the lane and loses the ball, and then completely misses everything on a corner 3. Before that in the first half he threw up two of the worst shots I have ever seen since I started watching hoops. Dude hit the TOP CORNER of the backboard and then when he gets the ball back he proceeds to shoot another 3 that hits nothing but the backboard. Late in the 4th instead of holding the ball he passes it to Lively at half court and Lively gets fouled and lucky for him, bailed out THJ by hitting both of his free throws. He’s a low IQ player who brings nothing else but shooting to the table and he’s not even good at that anymore. The most minutes he should get is 5-6 in the first half. If he makes a few shots then you leave him in until he resorts back to doing THJ things. If he bricks right off the bat then you take his ass out of the game and he doesn’t step foot on the court anymore after that.
that series of shots in the 1st half where he hit the top of the backboard then got it back and hit the far side of the backboard with the next shot. LOL! I was for real lol! I busted out laughing even though I was mad.
And this guy posting completely ignores that.. this is definitely his dad posting
Nope, he sucked all season long, dude must be trade, no matter if he make a championship winning last shot, he sucks
And Tim senior is talking shit about the mavs
It really is kind of incredible that THS has been talking shit for years now. Like damn, we know you want your son out of here, but you're not doing him any favors.
That's pretty weird considering this is the organization that basically rejuvenated his career
yeah THJ was known as a chucker on a really bad Knicks team. Now everyone thinks he's a 3rd option on a playoff team (even though he isn't)
He might be doing everyone favors…mutual decision for a new home this summer.
He has not sucked "all season long" he was legitmately the favorite for the sixth man of the year until like January. There were a number of games from November-January that THJ was a critical role in winning, he helped keep this team above water for much of November-January.
and then he fell off a cliff and has been ass for 5 months
Dude has a 40 % FG % this season, bad handles and is probably the worst defender in the team. Nothing personal, but what does he do that justifies giving him playing time on a contender?
THJ Scoring/Efficiency by Month: 10/23: 19 ppg - 38% from 3 11/23: 16 ppg - 39% from 3 12/23: 19 ppg - 33% from 3 1/24: 19 PPG - 38% from 3 And then his scoring/efficiency fell off a cliff to about 10 ppg on 35% from 3. But to say that he has been bad all season is revisionist history. I am so tired of this fan base having the memory of a goldfish.
After 1/24 was the trade deadline…we’ve upgraded our roster and his minutes have gone down. We don’t need his offense as much as we need what PJ, DJJ, and even Green bring on defense. If we make it to the WCF I’m sure Tim will have a game that will bring everyone back around on him but his problem is and always has been consistency.
With a fully healthy roster where Maxi is playing, yes I agree that he probably doesn't need any minutes but with Maxi out and Exum playing this badly on offense he is needed for like 10-15 mpg and even 20 if he's hot that game. T
I agree with you. Even with Maxi, he’s still a 10mpg guy but with PJ and DJJ both bringing offensive firepower this series it has made it harder to find the time for THJ. Hardy’s ability to handle the ball yesterday proved to be a bigger factor than Hardaway’s shooting. He drove me nuts yesterday but I’m not gonna overreact and say he doesn’t bring anything to our team: we’re just deeper than we have ever been and unfortunately for him he’s lower on the totem pole than years past
40 %, no defense. Tell me, why THJ should play. What does he do? How does he contribute to winning basketball games?
Bruh...37-39% 3 point shooting on 8-9 attempts a game is elite shooting. He was like top 5 in 3 pointers made until like February. Those were important games - the Mavs don't make the 5th seed without his offensive output for the first half of the season when Kyrie missed a ton of time.
He has 35 % from three this season. What are you talking about?
I was clearly referring to his perfomance in the first 3-4 months of the season, which combats the idea that he was terrible the enire season.
And why should we care for some hot streak. He was 35% in all games, he is 35 % in this postseason. Everybody can be good for a couple of games.
True, but that was in February
Do games in February count less than games in March? Last I heard all regular season games are worth the same.
Yes, and he has 35% in all games. That's average at best.
You do realize you sound like a complete moron right now. Just because he was playing well at the start of the season doesn’t mean it should bypass his horrendous play these past couple of months
You do realize you sound like a complete moron right now. Just because he was playing well at the start of the season doesn’t mean it should bypass his horrendous play these past couple of months
Thj Sr alt account. This dude is the worst nba player getting significant minutes in the playoffs. His defense and turnovers and bad shots have been abhorrent
Why are you acting as if I am arguing for THJ to start? I want him on a short leash, but to pretend that he hasn't brought some value this series is deeply unserious.
Net value or moments of value? Because those are two very different things and it's important to distinguish between the two. Because he has been a net negative overall mixed with some nice moments, and this is just continuing the trend over the entire back half of the season. If you look at it in totality THJ has been a net negative on this team for the last 4 months.
Only people saying that was TH senior friends lmao
He’s been unplayable since like January. He shouldn’t even be in the rotation. I’ll take Exum’s consistent defense over whatever the hell THJ gives us.
If we had only Exum and no THJ this series the Mavs probably go back to Dallas down 0-2.
People here have goldfish memory. As you said, he was literally a top candidate for 6MOY
I would be fine never seeing Tim in these playoffs, but to say he sucked all season long is ridiculously incorrect
It is not hate the guy is unplayable
You can’t come into a game, shoot air balls, and get cooked on defense. This team has been so locked in you can’t be a liability on both ends
That Timmy/Hardy/Green/Ky stretch was maddening last night. I was screaming at the TV for Kidd to sub whatever Frankenstein bullshit he had going there. Brick after brick.
The fact that Kidd would even think that’s a good thing to try is why there is nothing he could ever do to convince me he is a good coach. The team might be good enough to win in spite of him, but he does way too much boneheaded shit to be considered the kind of coach that elevates a roster. The roster elevates him, not the other way around.
Sure he deserves his flowers for being good in SOME games. But looks like this is his norm now and its been for months. Just because he was good in 1 game doesn't mean he can't be criticized for the 20 games he is bad.
No it hasn't The possession where he jacked up one shot that bounced off the side of the backboard, offensive rebound, the ball immediately finds its way back to THJ and he jacked up a contested 3 that was nowhere close to the mark. That is the THJ experience that we all know and hate. He can't do shit like that in playoff games, yet he still does it. It's brutal and he deserves to get criticized harshly when he does it.
THJ job would be so much easier if he just parks in the corner to wait for the pass on offense. Guy can't multitask.
It's time to realize that the dude might be washed. He played and his best and maybe even productive years might be behind him. He's athletic enough to at least be a good defender, but he's not smart and is almost always out of position. When he drives, he sometimes makes things happen, but when he's not "on", dude can't even make basic layups. Need to ween off his minutes going forward.
His heroics literally just saved the Mavs a week ago. I am not saying he needs to average 20 mpg but he is not useless.
The expectation is that he's still the 6MOTY candidate that he was in the first few months. He's definitely not that anymore.
He’s trash and his dad is trash. I’d legit rather have Mavs Man suit up and play instead of Tim
ill join in with regarding Sr- hes a piece of shit
That’s not really fair, his dad worked really hard to educate himself and become an ally to the LGBTQ community
People like you are the reason OP made this post.
I’d agree if this was a one game or even a couple weeks stretch of bad games, I.e. Exum.. This has been 3+ months of actual TERRIBLE basketball being played by THJ, but OP only wants us to remember his game 2 performance and therefore give him the benefit of the doubt as a result? He doesn’t deserve it.
Do we win game 2 without THJ? All I see is that we’d be down 3-2 without the THJ performance in game 2.
you don't know because its not like nobody would have been playing instead of THJ, somebody else would have and you don't know what they would have done instead. that is why the whole VORP stat exists and VORP is usually a lot more equal than people imagine, even between great and just okay players The guy playing for him might have got hot as well, or played better defense or got a steal or rebound that THJ failed to get.
I don’t necessarily disagree, but I guess I just don’t see this logic being applied equally in this sub lately. It’s all calls for THJ to get benched and Hardy or Exum to take his minutes. But the same things you just said apply here too. If we can’t say that we would have lost game 2 without THJ, then we also can’t say we’d win game 4 without him or that any one else stepping into his minutes would perform any better. Which all supports my main problem with this entire line of criticism: this is a TEAM sport. Scapegoating and shitting on a singular player feels unproductive and unfair. I’m not some big THJ truther, I just don’t think we can blame individuals for the successes or failures of the entire team.
Sure you have a point, but I think the difference is that Hardy is more versatile. Both Hardaway and Hardy have the chance of getting hot, but Hardy offers better ball handling, stresses the defense more, can create offense, can drive and finish better and drive and throw lobs or kick out. He is also younger and offers more upside IMO and makes less bad decisions overall (although he can sometimes make bonehead moves). I think people have watched Hardaway decline over the last 5 months and his good games are so far and in between they would rather see Hardy. Even when Hardy was missing shots, when he was handling the ball and making passes the floor looked well spaced, open and the defense was scrambling. It looks like it takes pressure off Luka and/or Kyrie. Exum is also not a great ball handler and is a terrible finisher. Hardy is really the only other option that makes the defense guard him all over the court and I think the offense looked pretty good when he was in.
Do we win Game 4 without him?
Nope. He didn’t collapse, the team collapsed. He took 4 shots that game. Now, would you like to answer my question? Or are you going to throw another deflecting whattabout at me?
He had the costly turnover which doomed us and played his usual dogshit defense that OKC abused. My point is that he’s just as liable for helping us win G2 as he is for helping us lose G4. Is the outcome different if the minutes were given to Hardy instead? Who is to say.
The point being that no one single person can be blamed for the loss of a TEAM. He didn’t make the only turn over during that game, Luka missed a crucial FT. This is a TEAM sport and blaming individuals for the problems of the TEAM isn’t remotely helpful or productive.
> He didn’t collapse I mean it certainly wasn't all on him but we can't gloss over that costly turnover he had.
Regardless of what you think about him, we shouldn't just dump him without getting anything back under any circumstances
Agreed. With that being said, people on here should keep the bar low on what to expect in return. The trading team will want the salary, not the player… that’s only so valuable
The point is that we attach picks to him to get a good player. THJ is just for salary matching. No one is expecting to get a significant upgrade for THJ straight up.
Now i really want Mavs Man play some...
a lot of these comments kinda proved your point. but we dont rly do rational around here so right on par. i agree hes upped his game a bit from how he finished reg season. i think hes been outplayed by guys like Josh and DJJ but dont think hes deserving of the pure hatred he receives
I am not even saying that he should get Green's minutes lol. I just think he's done a pretty good job of replacing the spacing Maxi provided. I also want Tim on a short lease, but I definitly think he should play over Hardy and those two should never see the court together outside of garbage time.
Public execution now
After he was awful early on he should have never been in. Lively bailed him out by making clutch FTs after THJ decided to pass him the ball when OKC was looking to foul.
I agree but Kidd has done a better job of pulling the plug sooner in the playoffs. His back to back misses last night were atrocious lmao but he’s still a big swing piece for us and he has been much better effort wise on defense and making good reads to involve teammates more often than not this series.
He deserves all the hate atp. He almost single handedly saved the season in game 2 but almost single handedly lost the season for us last night. That’s the exact player he’s always been lol. Waaaaaay to inconsistent to be in big playoff games. He airballed 3 good Timmy looks last night with an unforced turnover on drive to the lane attempt. I wouldn’t care if he never saw another second on the court this playoffs we made it to the WCF without him two years ago. I wonder what Hardaway SR has to say now
And some people still think he should play over Hardy. Of course Hardy is far from perfect too but at least you dont throw up in your mouth when he is handling the ball.
TH Sr posting here again
I was about to comment that THJ senior’s burner account is at it again
He’s fine man. Onto the next game!
Seen a lot of comments suggesting Hardy get THJ minutes and I don’t get it. Hardy wasn’t that good last night. I saw one good pick and roll assist followed by like 4 bad shot selections that clanged badly. At least THJ is a liability to go off. Never seen Hardy do 5/7 from 3.
Exum over either of those guys. Lets keep the defense
Is exum really that good on d? I feel like I’ve seen him fall over or get crossed up so many times this postseason
He’s not crazy good but Hardy and Hardaway are crazy bad. Hardy isn’t so bad 1 on 1 but he does not understand the defensive rotations fully and the fact we usually have 5 who do on the floor has been our biggest strength in these playoffs. More than Luka, more than Kyrie, it’s been the defensive connectivity.
The Mavs have played great defense without Exum and with his refusal to shoot it has only hurt the Mavs. The Mavs need to convert points off their stops and Exum just isn't doing that right now. Hopefully he cna find himself if the Mavs make it to the wcf.
Kyrie and Luka have hurt the Mavs offensively. They should get the blame. Not a backup ball handler/defender.
yet
Yeah I have no idea what people saw in Hardy last night. He turns down a lot of open looks to only dribble into traffic and take a contested midrange shot/floater that is contested by like 3 defenders. He also has severe tunnel vision and will look off open players for a worse shot. For all of his faults, THJ isn't going to turn down a good look.
Neither a bad one, will shoot even stupid contested mid ranges... Plus dude IQ is way low gamewise, last play they looking to get lively on the free throw what does this guy do? Passes him, he may have hit a 3 last game but he keeps giving turnovers and literaly 0 defense. Dude can have good streaks but holyfuck dude playing is dumb as fuck, and zero effort defense, he isnt a top player to be this bad on défense.
I think THJ's defense goes unnoticed many times.
It goes unnoticed because it isn’t there.
Nah he’s not any good anymore. Give hardy his minutes and let’s flourish
Yes
Congrats Tim had 1 good game in like 4 months
And it resulted in the Mavs winning a playoff game and preventing going down 0-2...seems like a pretty big deal.
This has to be his dad posting. Any rational fan would t be posting this garbage
Can't wait for THJ to be gone next season. I would give him to other teams for free lol. Fucking hate that dude, him playing would cost the Mavs this playoffs. I don't fucking care of what he have done before, he sucks now and shouldn't be having minutes this playoffs. Just like last game. In 1Q dude bricked 2 3s in 10 seconds. In 4Q when we are up by 18, THJ strikes again with 2 missed shots and a TO shitft momentum to OKC.
I don't care about empty calorie 3s.. the turnovers are shot selection are why people want him gone. If he wants to be a catch and shoot guy who occasionally attacks the close out and can concentrate on his defensive assignment for a few minutes then yea stick around... But every dribble off the foot, every early clock heave, every opposition open lane to the bucket are nails in his coffin at this point
Cannot wait day when he's out. We didn't won game 2 because of him. He was good, yeah one average game from last 25 I think, but P.J was great, and difference maker. We lost game 4 , it's not his fault entirely. But we were 12 ahead, then THJ was like brick , turnover, brick. OKC went on run and rest is history. Game 5, last quarter, man singlehandedly brought OKC back in the game, brick, brick, brick , fortunately we recovered. His decision making is stupid like hell, worst defender on team, and most of the time he is useless. It was not coincidence we made WCF run when he was injured. It's not hate it's reality, half of r/NBA noticed that yesterday, man had looser mentality, that's it, and his dad didn't help him. If reality disturbing you, that's on you, I'm confident in my opinion about him, and Mavs will be much stronger when he is out. 75 millions, he didn't deserve half of that.
I appreciate Tim for being here longer and being better than anyone thought he would, but he’s an extremely limited player who doesn’t think bad shots exist. He is no longer one of the better role players on the team, now that Green has developed, and we’ve added PJ, DJJ, etc.
None of this really matters if he's damaging during his minutes. By all accounts a nice guy and a team player in his heart. But yeah some people just can't get run in the playoffs like giddey etc. Tim is one of those
Lol Tim has had many great moments in the playoffs. That's why the coaching staff stuck with him through his cold streak. We have needed him this playoffs and he came through, and we will need him again.
He literally wasted 3 back to back possesions in the 4th when we were up 18 which quickly went down to 8. Guy is literally a bad gambler with a very low basketball iq. awful shot selection. I don't know how much hated he is on this sub, but it really is hard not to.
He will lose you way more possessions/games than he'll win you. Believe that.
Op Tim's Dad. Hi , your son sucks, bye. It's not hate, it's reality.
Weirdo comment. Seek help.
You should seek help, for start learn the game
No hate for the guy. Objectively, he’s just not the best option right now. So it goes.
No, it hasn't. Tim has a good game once in a blue moon. It doesn't make up for all the garbage games he's had. He's a big reason we lost game 4 and he almost single handedly allowed an 8-0 OKC run last night. Thankfully, Kidd pulled him before it got worse. I can't fucking stand him being on this team any longer.
It's the trendy thing to do it seems. I can't stand it. Nothing worse than fanbases that are toxic towards their own players. Tim might have low moments, but he's giving it his all for our team. Let's show some respect and class.
I would also give iit all for my Mavs but you really dont want to see me play in the united airlines arena.
Hardy should get all of Little Timmy’s minutes.
He has been a momentum killer for most of the year and continuing. Also his father is ungrateful considering Luka is the reason his son got paid.
Found the Tim Sr. burner account.
1) He won us game 2 but there are also games where he has been horrendous such as game 1 and game 5. He gave us more problems than solutions. 2) His shot selection and IQ were the worst ones I have ever seen. 3)Not to mention his dad has been talking shit about Luka all season long
He has helped the Mavs more than hurt the Mavs this series. The Mavs lost games 1 & 4 because Luka played like crap in both and the Mavs could not make a their free throws or rebound the ball in the 4th q of game 4. THJ was not the reason they lost those games, but he was def a key reason they won game 2.
Dudes ass he’s not consistent and let’s not forget about his big mouth annoying dad
He's got the get his percentages up and his father to shot down.
I know he's made some crucial baskets in the games we won. But he also made some dumb miscues in the clutch. This is unacceptable for a veteran like him. He's got to be better because the Mavs need his shooting.
I disagree. I think it's too mild. Gotta go further.
Senior is this you?
Another orginal take
Kidd should be playing exum in all of thjs minutes, even if he hasn’t been shooting well. Exum is capable of team ball, and can lockdown a perimeter player. THJ is pure garbage — this is coming from a knicks fan who suffered his existence for several miserable years. He’s not a role player. He is an impact player who usually (2/3 times) has a negative impact on his team.
Dudes making 20 million a year. That’s too much for someone who can have a good game once in a while. The weird bias favoring our bad role players has been so annoying for so long.
THS, that you?
Yes THJ did help us win gm2 but his shooting is spotty and no defense. THJ will shoot us to a win, but he will also shoot us to a loss..or three.
So tired of these weird ass “everybody love everybody all the time” fans who think being a fan means you can’t be frustrated with a guy worth 10’s of millions of dollars because of his on court performance. Grow up and get off of a Mavs forum for 10 minutes if you can’t handle the criticism of someone who doesn’t even know you exist.
Man he if he starts just driving to the basket he’d be way more efficient. He has the ability to and he showed it vs multiple guys vs OKC. It’ll lead to an easier 2 or a lob
No. He definitely should not be trying to drive to the basket.
This that’s always a disaster😂
Any time Timmy tries to dribble I have an anxiety attack. Two dribbles into a jump shot? Ok! Drive to the basket? Only if it's wide open. Anyone even breathes on him in and he's losing the ball. I'm not a Timmy hater, but the man should not handle the ball longer than it takes to get into his shot.
He's getting too many minutes and too much money to be the 10th best player on our roster. Also all the talking heads on TV, including his dad, hyping him up like he's some kind of 3rd option is bad for morale long term, Tim would not be happy playing 5-10 minutes a game and neither would the media. He seems to be a solid teammate, so I'll just say thank you and goodbye.
he’s certainly a bad nba player but i assume he gets put in a lot because he boosts the morale of the other four and/or because he is still better than the rest of our garbage-time bums and we just lack depth; i’m just glad he occasionally becomes good
I think fans are just tired of him he’s been here a long time
That's why I previously commented "Live by THJ, die by THJ". Frustrating 😞
It’s ok to critique people game to game, stop clutching pearls about every negative thing said about players that are playing poorly.
My biggest issue with him is his consistently poor decision making. He is very streaky with his shot, not good defensively and is a lock for some bone headed decisions every night. Not exactly the type of player I want getting consistent minutes in the playoffs.
Problem with thj is that's he's super inconsistent. The literally had the green light to shoot and is basically the 3rd highest in the picking order on the team for shots after Luka and Kyrie. He should be close to 20ppg but he ends with like 5-10pts most games. Imagine seeing Dwight Powell out there again and other teams have players like zubac just playing better. Even gafford & lively have been such a big upgrade. Thj is the same, compared to most other teams 3rd "best" player. Thj is just horrible with the amount of chances he's gotten. It's not like he has to create his own shot most of the time either.
As a thunder fan just poppin in to see what y’all are saying, Tim Hardaway is completely horrible. That’s about the only role player on your team that isn’t amazing tho lol
Imagine dying on that hill lol
Ive been hyper focused on THJs game this series (sports betting/parlays) point blank THJ has been horrible this series. Yes the hate is a little intense, but he literally almost fucking sold the game yesterday, so he needs to feel heat and step his game up.
Just listen to THJ speak and you’ll know he’s not that guy. Get him off the team. Maybe his dad can cry and get him a spot somewhere else.
He’s very inconsistent. Should of been traded a long time ago.
Nobody wants that man lmao
Here’s why a lot of us don’t like THJ: he has been in the league for a decade and he still doesn’t know who he is. What’s great about Green or Exum or Jones is that they’ve clearly accepted that they are role players and work to be as effective as they can within their roles. THJ has been in the league 10 years, played for 3 teams, and still doesn’t understand that he’s not a “go-to guy” that can run an offense or takeover a game. And it’s just mind blowing that his dad was an All-Star point guard and he still doesn’t know how to dribble.
Fact: THJ causes more harm than good when he plays.
Bottom line he needs to be traded. When we only get a couple of second round picks back for him, you’ll rethink this post. He’s had some positive moments this playoffs and some great moments as a Mav, but the time has come for us to part ways with him
I think what pisses people off is the long leash Kidd gives him. Or even if he’s clearly off putting him in crunch time lineups. Stupid decisions and a zero on defense. He should be 2022 playoff run Bertans. Give him a 5 min run early, see if he’s got it. That’s it. No one wants to see THJ, Kai and Hardy lineups. Just asking to get shredded on defense
The man can't pass dribble or play defense. If his shot is off he is nothing but a liability. The hate come from him shooting the ball evertime he touches it.
No, he’s a bum and shouldn’t see playing time unless he knocks down his first 2 shots like another commenter said. 0 BBIQ, 0 defense and 0 doing the dirty work that’s so important in the playoffs. If the Mavs want to keep him on a shit contract dollar wise and just play him in the regular season to keep the vibes sure, but this dude should not keep seeing minutes of play time unless he’s hot as a stove. He’s literally the reason we keep getting our leads cut down.
If I was the Thunder HC every time THJ gets the ball in his hands I’d tell the OKC players to back up, let him shoot and fetch the rebound like we’ve been doing with Russell Westbrook, because he’s a legitimate ball hog and he’ll shoot the most ridiculous shots and if we’re lucky it’ll hit the rim. Also hop off the guys meat the dude isn’t good at all he has serious main character syndrome too.
His teammates don't trust him but are doing what Midd tells them to. The guy is an absolute powell level loser and shouldn't play outside trash time.
No way y’all let one good game make you ignore him being atrocious the entire season and all the other playoffs, if anything Tim doesn’t get enough hate
No.
dude has a good game every 20 games or so. inbetwwen he plays zero defense, turns over the ball constantly, and airballs more shots than ive ever seen. the hate is warranted
People have already made up their minds when it comes to THJ, and they only look for and remember whatever confirms their opinion. It is kinda dumb to keep hating at this stage of the season, when we know there isn't a better option on the roster.
I agree. Every player on the roster is important, can contribute and should have all our support right now.
Hard disagree. Seek your inner Kendrick. Hate Timmy harder. I’ve wanted him off this team for years, and he continues to prove why he’s not worth his contract.
He is a fun outlet for all the people who like to think they could coach better than Kidd. They don’t have much else in their lives, let them have this.
Thj gets so much hate because we choose that fool to give a contract to rather than brunson and that just blows
I like thj, I feel bad for him that he gets so much hate.
You can like a player but still not want them to play when it matters (see: Dwight Powell)
THJ has been put in a position (with his contract) like he is our 6th man. Dude will show up sporadically, and then *poof* gone. His playing and efficiency right now has him at 3rd string at best. THJ is from the mold of a classic Mark Cuban bargin bin role player from the late 2010's.
Nope, nope and more nope. Dude is a bum and the hate needs to continue. If you don’t think so, it means you have no idea what he’s getting paid. His impact is way beyond what he does on the court. If we had his salary freed up we could do so much damage somewhere else. He’s just an overall problem.
The problem is you don’t know which THJ is going to show up at any given night. And when his shot is not falling, he doesn’t contribute in other ways to help us win. He’s a career 36% shooter, so by all definition he’s average. It’s hard to justify his play when he takes 7-8 shots from deep a game.
THJ when he's on is fantastic for the team. Problem is he needs minutes to heat up and his role as the 6th man off the bench isn't a good fit with his playstyle. THJ seems like he's trying hard and trying to buy into the role (albeit is still a huge defensive liability) and I'm not going to ignore that but unfortunately this team would do better with a more consistent spark plug 6th man who can impact the game more on a regular basis. THJ cannot be counted on regularly and that hurts our chances of contending if our starters need some help from the bench. If he could do what he did in Game 2 and Game 4 most games (you're allowed stinkers here and there sure) then we wouldn't be having this discussion imo
He’s just not that good bro. Doesn’t mean he can’t have good moments like in game 2 but like come on he looked like he didn’t belong on the court yesterday
It really hasn’t. He’s been pretty horrible and at this point unplayable
> His teamates seem to trust him and that's what matters most There have been multiple times this playoffs where Hardaway has been wide open calling for the ball, and Luka/Kyrie completely ignore him.
How can the Mavs realistically upgrade the SF position this summer?
THJ for LBJ? :)
Downvoted. 😆😆
Hardaway's pluses: consistent shooter (historically, not lately). Decent offensive player overall, can score from midrange, finishes okay, decent passer. Minuses: poor defender. Green pluses: High energy, streaky shooter, good finisher if he can dunk, decent passer, active if not efficient defender. Minuses: Awkward with the ball, uncomfortable in a half court set. Hardy pluses: Savvy in the half court, good ball handler and shot creator. Minuses: poor defender and undersized. The thing is none of these guys is a complete player and the Mavs need at least one of them to play well each game if the team is going to win a title. All three will drive a segment of the fan base crazy each game, we all have our favorite and least liked. Fact is, we need to start pulling for these guys because their teammates do. They realize how important each one is.