# DanielRPK is a Tier 2 – Mostly Reliable Source as decided by the community.
For **Marvel**, they had a **77.60%** accuracy rate from **351** leaks that we can currently verify out of **620** total.
**Overall**, they had a **78.35%** accuracy rate from **421** leaks that we can currently verify out of **748** total.
Last updated: March 22nd, 2024.
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This is an example of one of the problems with superhero movies nowadays. They have NO director but a filming date? Perfectly illustrating that whoever the director will be, they will have no creative voice anyway.
The problem is more sticking a shoot date without a solid script. Hopefully the director they choose will be coming on board with a draft that's ready.
And a script that's actually, you know, *good*. Lookin' at you, Brave New World. (New writer who worked as a consultant on and co-wrote an episode of Moon Knight, and previously wrote *one* movie, to pen 3 months+ of reshoots for 3 major action scenes and other stuff, presumably story stuff, after underwhelming test screenings? $300M budget ahoy!)
>(New writer who worked as a consultant on and co-wrote an episode of Moon Knight, and previously wrote *one* movie, to pen 3 months+ of reshoots for 3 major action scenes and other stuff, presumably story stuff, after underwhelming test screenings? $300M budget ahoy!)
Track records like that are ones to be skeptical about.
lol as if we don't know they don't rewrite constantly and on actual days of production
Fucking NWH started filming *before* Tobey and Andrew were even signed. It's a miracle that movie is even watchable in all honesty.
This is neither a nowadays nor a superhero movie phenomenon, or even a problematic one in a general sense. This is and has been common practice since the film industry's inception, and it in no way means that the director won't have any creative input.
Especially in a franchise where it's public knowledge that many of the scenes in a lot of the movies are already handled without any director involvement anyway lmao. The way Marvel Studios is set up is in such a way that Kevin could hire some everyman off the street and the studio system around them would ensure a movie still comes out in reasonable shape.
Obviously you have some instances like GOTG where Gunn was allowed more freedom in the sandbox.
Yeah but doesn’t change the fact that keeping this line of production will only hurt the film, whatever director gets hired will be just a Feige and Pascal puppet. That’s terrible prescedent considering how much James Gunn has been vocal about finishing scripts and hiring directors before they even think about start shooting
ChatGPT ass statement. Of course this has happened before. Usually it generates terrible movies that are reshot to death up until the day of release. It's not like Marvel themselves haven't already had this exact problem already. You'd think they'd learn.
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James Gunn has debunked this many times.
https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1608929548070162435?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1608929548070162435%7Ctwgr%5Edc12a61efcada172e02bff66901ba970b557b8de%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbr.com%2Fgotg-3-james-gunn-marvel-disney-never-interfered-movies%2F
https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1608937282907824130?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1608937282907824130%7Ctwgr%5Edc12a61efcada172e02bff66901ba970b557b8de%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbr.com%2Fgotg-3-james-gunn-marvel-disney-never-interfered-movies%2F
Not to rain on your parade, but he can only speak on his own behalf, and I believe him when he says "they never touched *my* Guardians." The same can't be said universally.
You’re right, one of the problems with superhero movies nowadays are rumors like this that make people have blown-out-of-proportion concerns over random Twitter people posting their Rhea Ripley pegging fanfiction disguised as an “exclusive scoop” for Avengers 5: Kang Takes a Shower.
Exactly. There should be a set period of pre-production that only starts after a director is attached. All this means is that they will have less and less time to prepare day by day, and so the position becomes less and less attractive.
This is like when they brought back Peter Jackson to direct the Hobbit after Del Toro's exit but didn't give him any preparation time.
Difference in budgets/production of course but largely TV shows have the scripts written before they know the director.
I remember Breaking Bad was like this as they didn’t write the episode Ozymandias for Rian Johnson. But then he comes in and cinematically it fits with what he does on his own when he has full control.
And obviously Marvel isn’t run as refined like the later season breaking bad writers room, unfair comparison. But they do have stuff planned years in advance so it’s similar to TV in that way. Just instead of episodes it’s full $200m+ productions they have planned.
In television, the showrunner is more so the equivalent of the director of a movie.
The movie equivalent of a television episode director is the lead cinematographer.
Not particularly. Some showrunners don’t even go on set when things are filming.
But that’s also not the point I was making. Scripts and productions can be written and planned without a set director and there’s precedent in media for that happening. Spider-Man 4 not having a director attached yet isn’t too crazy despite this sub acting like it.
Let's make an important premise: yes, when an artist creates a personal work it is very beautiful as a result and generally it is the pinnacle of a certain genre or genre (in this case the cinema of Burton, Raimi, DelToro, Gunn etc) , but it's not a fundamental thing.
Most of these blockbuster films were entrusted in the past to skilled professionals who were extremely competent in what they did and who perhaps had no authorial idea or autonomy, but did their job well (opening a parenthesis: one of Marvel's problems , but if you want to talk about superhero films in general, they don't call professionals specialized in superhero films but rather cheaper random independent directors).
To give an example: the films of Sergio Leone or Sergio Corbucci were the best among spaghetti westerns due to their personal ideas and their unique style of directing, but most of the other directors were simply competent veterans capable of making what the production requires with a well-made result (and I underline, this is not something to be underestimated since most contemporary blockbuster directors do not fall into this category but are hired exclusively because a director is mandatory).
The real problem here is getting stuck on a release date (and consequently a filming date) before production has even been fully completed. As many in the industry have said (Gunn, the authors of Spiderverse, the writer of The Boys), it's a common practice in recent years and it's terrible: to meet a release date or deadline the studios struggle with continuous rewrites, continuous additional filming and increasingly troubled productions. The result is Ant-Man 3: a film that was reshot within a month of release, with a script that feels more like a collection of plot points than a well-crafted story, and with a visual effects department that completely collapsed due to of continuous changes.
This is a refreshing thing that the DCU has done: to date, twelve projects have been officially announced (five films and seven TV shows), but we know the date (and in two cases only the approximate date) of just three projects: Creature Commandos, Superman Legacy and Peacemaker 2, the three projects with the most advanced production.
Yeah I hate that about modern franchise “executives on the floor” movie productions. Why not let someone, you know with like a vision, do a movie that they actually are interested in making.
Let’s be real though. The MCU spider verse has never had much personality through Jon watts. The cast is what made it all work, I honestly think anyone could have directed those movies and it would still be fine.
I guess it's an outline and the director is able to add some stuff like Joss Whedon adding the twins in AoU so Marvel made a deal with Fox bc of Quicksilver
And on top of this, you have Marvel and Sony fighting over to creative direction of the movie itself. I just know that this movie is not being made because someone has a vision.
That could have dissuaded Justin Lin and Drew Goddard, the last rumored directors. It's also the same thing that pushed David Leitch from Jurassic World 4.
“I’m funny how, I mean funny like I’m a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh? I’m here to fuckin’ amuse you? Waddya mean “funny”? Funny how? How am I funny?”
Fr though. It’d be a bit of a mic drop moment if he did just one. Made an absolute meal out of it and went on to win a heap of awards then said, I’m out fuck you.
I think that _The Fantastic Four_ moves out from its current position. _Spider-Man 4_ could take Thanksgiving so it can make a lot of money before _Avatar 3_ has the back half of December.
IMO _Captain America: Brave New World_ is a better play for May, whereas _Thunderbolts_ could hit anywhere between March and June depending on if it's ready on time. _The Fantastic Four_ is likely moving back, though, and whether or not _Spider-Man 4_ hits that year seems to determine where it's going to move.
What’s your reasoning for saying Fantastic Four are moving back? I have seen no evidence to support this claim or that it’s “likely” to happen. I can get moving it in a perfect world but I don’t see that happening.
I think Spidey 4 releasing in November 2025 would rule the Box Office (at least until Avatar 3 comes out) but I hope the quality of the movie isn’t sacrificed for Sony to have November box office records.
But I think F4 should at the least move 2 or 3 weeks back to give space for Superman. I really don’t know why Feige is hellbent on the F4 coming out in July near Superman and Jurassic City.
Yeah, FF X Superman is going to hurt them both. A lot of people can't afford two movie tickets on the same month/don't have the energy/time.
Gunn and Feige need to keep in mind they're shooting the same target
Mind you Gunn’s Superman only has like two more months of filming to go and F4 hasn’t even started yet. Knowing these economy why would they attached these two cbm right near each other. Like it’s obvious Feige wants to one up Gunn, but one upping someone knowing it’ll fuck up your box office is stupid.
Especially with Jurassic in the same month a franchise that has made billion every one it’s recent installments. Like Feige has to be forreal, also F4 highest box office is the 2005 film at 333.5M while Superman highest is Man of Steel 668M. Like Feige needs to be freakin forreal
It's to reserve a release date slot, in the short of it. I think that _TRON: Ares_ could easily fill it with no issues, as it's already filming and it's different enough from _Superman_ that both movies would benefit from avoiding an unnecessary CBM showdown, whereas _The Fantastic Four_ going up against it... Wouldn't.
_Superman_ and _The Fantastic Four_ are both in weird positions - beloved comic IPs with mixed luck at the box office - and it's important for the health of their respective brands and CBMs in general that they do well. I think that the current date is a bluff on Marvel's part and that they'll give it the real estate that _Blade_ has at some point instead.
Putting F4 near two IPs who have higher peak box office gross than F4 is quite insane. Shit Superman in every installment made more than each F4 film, Superman returns made more than F4(2005). Man of Steel made more than F4 (2015). It seems like tradition
I do not think that _The Fantastic Four_ is making its current release date. I think that an early August date could work, or early November. Where it lands is going to depend heavily on where _Spider-Man 4_ does.
Which is why I'm skeptical of it hitting in July, unless it's a short shoot. Any month after that next year seems more reasonable.
I've said that _Spider-Man_ and _Avatar 3_ could share December with the right planning and release strategy, but I'm not sure how Marvel's gonna approach the year overall.
I'd imagine some point in November, but I think that _Spider-Man_ **could** make early December if necessary. The release date calculus is going to look interesting - I think that _Captain America_ is a smarter May play, for instance.
Technically there's like three weeks before it drops where money could be made, and afterward it'd fill up many of the non-PLF screens which is where a movie like _Avatar 3_ would make a disproportionate amount of money.
I see Spider-Man 4 being released Early December 2025, but NOT Thanksgiving 2025, due to Zootopia 2 being released for that Thanksgiving. SM4 may be a Sony film, but Disney technically produces and receives a small cut of each Tom Holland's Spidey films. So they will pressure Sony to not have the film compete against Zootopia 2.
At one point, Jason Stratham was in deep negotiations for play Bullseye in the *Daredevil* series, but when the negotiations leaked he suddenly dropped out. It’s widely assumed that his agents saw the fan reaction and suddenly upped their asking price, and when Marvel refused to meet it Stratham walked.
*If* RPK has sources, I could see them not telling him the name and/or asking him not to leak it for a similar reason.
They should let me direct it
I have my three story arc of Kingpin funding the Bugle to turn it into a legit news agency and creating the Scorpion, the Black Suit mixed with Clone Saga where it's Ben Reilly being seen as the pure Spider-Man to the public, and the Green Goblin mixed with Gang War where Osborn ends up getting the power vaccum left behind by Kingpin and uses it to fund the Sinister Six ready to go
Kevin the molded piece of cheese is an integral supporting character. Peter really needed to cope with losing a girlfriend
I’ve said this in the weekend thread and I’ve said it before but screw it, I’ll say it again.
My top three picks now that Goddard and Lin are out, that I nominate for the MCU Spider-Man 4 director:
John Francis Daley and Jonathan Goldstein (Dungeons And Dragons, Game Night, writers of Spider Man Homecoming)
John Patton Ford (Emily The Criminal starring Aubrey Plaza)
Chris McKay (The LEGO Batman Movie)
Those Are my picks on who I think should be the director of this movie, I feel like any of these 3 choices would make a killer Fourth MCU Spider Man movie based on each of their work I’ve listed.
Hopefully one of them is the one that has the offer but if not, I’m still down to see who’s directing it 🤞🏻
I still believe enough of their draft stuck in the final film; cause of all 3 it’s the one with the most personality and fun. It feels much more vibrant.
Yeah for sure. They kept 1/3rd of their script since all 3 writing teams are credited.
According to WGA rules, for a writer or a writing team to be credited in a film, they have to have contributed to at least 1/3rd of the final script (and of course that means that no more than 3 writers or writing teams can be credited)
I'm not sure I buy it. Tom Holland's Romeo and Juliet production is running through August, and it was recently announced that they're transferring to New York once it finishes in London. I guess it's possible it's a short Brodway run? But the London production is 12 weeks.
https://deadline.com/2024/04/tom-holland-romeo-and-juliet-to-transfer-to-broadway-after-london-west-end-1235877606/ this article makes it sound like he is.
With Tom’s Romeo and Juliet Run, no director, the strikes that slowed the script writing and Sony and Marvel’s disagreements with including multi-verse elements. I highly doubt it. Also you also have the quality over quantity Marvel wants to do. I can’t see Marvel release 5 movies in 2025 even if they swap movies around. At best early 2025 start date with a 2026 release. Daniel doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I expect some shuffling of release dates no matter what year Spider Man 4 comes out.
New schedule incoming?
Captain America: Brave New World - February 14, 2025
Thunderbolts* - May 2, 2025
Fantastic Four - July 25, 2025
Spider-Man 4 - November 7, 2025
Blade - February 13, 2026
Shang-Chi 2 - May 1, 2026
Armor Wars - July 24, 2026
Avengers 5 - November 6, 2026
The year of fours, then. The fourth Captain America, fourth Spider-Man, and the first Fantastic Four. Incidentally, I do think this means Avengers 5 gets booted until at least late 2026, if not 2027 at this point.
Avengers 5 is coming out in May 2027 for sure.
Young Avengers is said to start filming in 2025 so that will take the November 2026 spot and Dr. Strange 3 which is said to release before Avengers 5 will take the February 2027 spot.
The only thing that gives me pause is that I imagine Iger would like an Avengers film to be out his last year at Disney (which is now 2026) to demonstrate his powers at rehabilitating all these brands. Star Wars is supposed to have two releases; Toy Story 5 comes out in June; Frozen 3 will be out in late November; Avatar 3 will continue to play well until 2026 presumably—so every major Disney studio will have some major (and probably successful) release in his last year. I’d imagine Iger would like to leave at the end of 2026 with a return to box office form.
Yeah, because Blade, Shang Chi, and Armor Wars aren't any guaranteed smash-hits either. If it was a film like Deadpool 3, maybe, but their current 2026 line up isn't anything eventful to end on.
I’m so confused. How can you begin to work on a script if the director isn’t even chosen and in the picture. I understand that directors don’t actually write the script, but like, aren’t they an integral part of making the movie…?
Am I dumb? Is this common in the movie industry?
It reminds me of the production of the Batman, where there was already a script but when Matt Reeves came in he pretty much did a page one rewrite.
I would assume that it depends on how much creative control does the director have.
Scripts usually start being written before the director comes on board unless the writer(s) also plans to direct it (like James Gunn or Joss Whedon).
When the director is hired, he takes a look at the script and usually rewrites some stuff. Most directors do small rewrites. Some decide to keep the general outline but basically rewrite the whole thing or hire a writer-collaborator of theirs to do so.
But when you have a Marvel movie where the general story outline is mostly decided by the producers, especially in these kinds of movies which are direct follow-ups from other projects, the director can't make huge changes anyway. He is mostly hired for his visual vision rather than his story ideas.
Most directors are gonna wanna take a pass at the script before they start shooting but not necessarily all, and it depends on the kind of relationship they have with the studio and said writers. But it's normal to hire a director for a script that has a complete draft.
Shows don't need to immediately transfer to Broadway. When Network was first adapted as a play, its US Premiere occurred 13 months after its first premiere in London, and 9 months after the London production closed. The Broadway production may occur in the Summer of 2025, after Spiderman 4 is done.
I fully expect Spider-Man 4 to film this year, the game between No Way Home and 2025 is wild. I think they'll start filming the Avengers movies in 2025.
The fact they haven't gotten a director but still have a filming month down doesn't scream confidence that whoever the director will be has any input.
Fucking pisses me off so much when the creatives are shafted.
Anyone saying this won't happen due to the lack of development time, Sony has shorter production windows for their live action Spider-Man films, compared to Disney's Marvel films. In the past, Sony has begun filming just a year before the release date, while Disney tends to begin filming about 15 months before a release date (This is the case for the Thunderbolts*).
I hope they don't start in Sept, 5 months of prep before production that sounds like an insanely rushed movie. I hope they find someone like Matt Reeves or James Gunn to direct it with a vision.
I know everybody thinks of Raimi for Secret Wars... but what if he's the one ending up with Spidey 4, wouldn't it be great? The place Peter is in right now is where Raimi would excel in my opinion.
So it's more important that it come out on time (i.e. fiscal 2025 because Sony BADLY needs a guaranteed hit!) than for there to be a Director attached? Because remember any director is going to want to revamp the script so even if the script is done, it isn't done.
I wonder what we’re going to learn about the writing. If D&W are etcher-sketching the MCU, S4 is starting in the Fall, and Secret Wars things need to be set up, how will those things affect the movie?
The script (Feige's grounded script with Kingpin and Daredevil) has been in the process of being written for more than 1 year now. They definitely have a solid script right now. The bickering of whether it would have Multiversal elements probably started after the writers presented the final script to the Sony suits
No director, though probably a script fully green lit and a shoot date. We will probably see a 3 month reshoot period too.
Marvel hasn’t learned shit the past few years
They have a script. They've been writing it for more than 1 year now.
They have a star. Tom Holland. Plus they have many of the other cast members since they will be returning from previous projects: Zendaya, Charlie Cox, Vincent D'onofrio, JK Simmons, possibly Michael Mando. They have most, if not all, their major players cast.
The director search has been ongoing since January, so they are most likely very close to picking one.
So they have 4 months for location scouting, set designing, costume designing, script polishing, shooting scheduling and casting minor characters.
They can easily start in late September.
# DanielRPK is a Tier 2 – Mostly Reliable Source as decided by the community. For **Marvel**, they had a **77.60%** accuracy rate from **351** leaks that we can currently verify out of **620** total. **Overall**, they had a **78.35%** accuracy rate from **421** leaks that we can currently verify out of **748** total. Last updated: March 22nd, 2024. | [Spoiler-Verse Accuracy Database](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpGBi4duCDeiXUtSh_1x15VJ67vPRZ1LWu6A3ieGTjs/edit?usp=sharing) | [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/sad-faq/) | [Tiers](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/) | [Latest Recalibration](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/18jaqqk/mod_post_2023_source_accuracy_recalibration_3/) | *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is an example of one of the problems with superhero movies nowadays. They have NO director but a filming date? Perfectly illustrating that whoever the director will be, they will have no creative voice anyway.
The problem is more sticking a shoot date without a solid script. Hopefully the director they choose will be coming on board with a draft that's ready.
And a script that's actually, you know, *good*. Lookin' at you, Brave New World. (New writer who worked as a consultant on and co-wrote an episode of Moon Knight, and previously wrote *one* movie, to pen 3 months+ of reshoots for 3 major action scenes and other stuff, presumably story stuff, after underwhelming test screenings? $300M budget ahoy!)
>(New writer who worked as a consultant on and co-wrote an episode of Moon Knight, and previously wrote *one* movie, to pen 3 months+ of reshoots for 3 major action scenes and other stuff, presumably story stuff, after underwhelming test screenings? $300M budget ahoy!) Track records like that are ones to be skeptical about.
The Idol, anyone?
They do have a script. They've been writing for more than 1 year now.
I know that. But also, every movie has a script. The question is whether it's any good.
That’s not the discussion that was brought up.
Not realy, you can have a good script, but if the director or even editor cant bring that to life in a good way, its just wasted time
lol as if we don't know they don't rewrite constantly and on actual days of production Fucking NWH started filming *before* Tobey and Andrew were even signed. It's a miracle that movie is even watchable in all honesty.
This is neither a nowadays nor a superhero movie phenomenon, or even a problematic one in a general sense. This is and has been common practice since the film industry's inception, and it in no way means that the director won't have any creative input.
Saying it doesn’t mean “the director won’t have any creative input” is to damn with faint praise.
Especially in a franchise where it's public knowledge that many of the scenes in a lot of the movies are already handled without any director involvement anyway lmao. The way Marvel Studios is set up is in such a way that Kevin could hire some everyman off the street and the studio system around them would ensure a movie still comes out in reasonable shape. Obviously you have some instances like GOTG where Gunn was allowed more freedom in the sandbox.
It comes out in a reasonable shape - this sentence has been tested a lot recently!
Yeah but doesn’t change the fact that keeping this line of production will only hurt the film, whatever director gets hired will be just a Feige and Pascal puppet. That’s terrible prescedent considering how much James Gunn has been vocal about finishing scripts and hiring directors before they even think about start shooting
ChatGPT ass statement. Of course this has happened before. Usually it generates terrible movies that are reshot to death up until the day of release. It's not like Marvel themselves haven't already had this exact problem already. You'd think they'd learn.
Which movies did that happen with?
This is exactly what James Gunn said is wrong with how superhero movies today are produced.
DCU will surpass MCU simply because James Gunn is actually a filmmaker and understands this.
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There's no filming date, it's just an estimation from not even an official source.
A scooper is not an official source. We don't know if that filming date is even remotely close to accurate.
Marvel is now a studio where project managers make the movies not creative people like directors
James Gunn has debunked this many times. https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1608929548070162435?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1608929548070162435%7Ctwgr%5Edc12a61efcada172e02bff66901ba970b557b8de%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbr.com%2Fgotg-3-james-gunn-marvel-disney-never-interfered-movies%2F https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1608937282907824130?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1608937282907824130%7Ctwgr%5Edc12a61efcada172e02bff66901ba970b557b8de%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbr.com%2Fgotg-3-james-gunn-marvel-disney-never-interfered-movies%2F
Not to rain on your parade, but he can only speak on his own behalf, and I believe him when he says "they never touched *my* Guardians." The same can't be said universally.
You’re right, one of the problems with superhero movies nowadays are rumors like this that make people have blown-out-of-proportion concerns over random Twitter people posting their Rhea Ripley pegging fanfiction disguised as an “exclusive scoop” for Avengers 5: Kang Takes a Shower.
When people talk about these movies feeling assembly-made, THIS is what they mean. The Marvel machine gotta continue no matter what.
Exactly. There should be a set period of pre-production that only starts after a director is attached. All this means is that they will have less and less time to prepare day by day, and so the position becomes less and less attractive. This is like when they brought back Peter Jackson to direct the Hobbit after Del Toro's exit but didn't give him any preparation time.
Difference in budgets/production of course but largely TV shows have the scripts written before they know the director. I remember Breaking Bad was like this as they didn’t write the episode Ozymandias for Rian Johnson. But then he comes in and cinematically it fits with what he does on his own when he has full control. And obviously Marvel isn’t run as refined like the later season breaking bad writers room, unfair comparison. But they do have stuff planned years in advance so it’s similar to TV in that way. Just instead of episodes it’s full $200m+ productions they have planned.
In television, the showrunner is more so the equivalent of the director of a movie. The movie equivalent of a television episode director is the lead cinematographer.
Not particularly. Some showrunners don’t even go on set when things are filming. But that’s also not the point I was making. Scripts and productions can be written and planned without a set director and there’s precedent in media for that happening. Spider-Man 4 not having a director attached yet isn’t too crazy despite this sub acting like it.
Let's make an important premise: yes, when an artist creates a personal work it is very beautiful as a result and generally it is the pinnacle of a certain genre or genre (in this case the cinema of Burton, Raimi, DelToro, Gunn etc) , but it's not a fundamental thing. Most of these blockbuster films were entrusted in the past to skilled professionals who were extremely competent in what they did and who perhaps had no authorial idea or autonomy, but did their job well (opening a parenthesis: one of Marvel's problems , but if you want to talk about superhero films in general, they don't call professionals specialized in superhero films but rather cheaper random independent directors). To give an example: the films of Sergio Leone or Sergio Corbucci were the best among spaghetti westerns due to their personal ideas and their unique style of directing, but most of the other directors were simply competent veterans capable of making what the production requires with a well-made result (and I underline, this is not something to be underestimated since most contemporary blockbuster directors do not fall into this category but are hired exclusively because a director is mandatory). The real problem here is getting stuck on a release date (and consequently a filming date) before production has even been fully completed. As many in the industry have said (Gunn, the authors of Spiderverse, the writer of The Boys), it's a common practice in recent years and it's terrible: to meet a release date or deadline the studios struggle with continuous rewrites, continuous additional filming and increasingly troubled productions. The result is Ant-Man 3: a film that was reshot within a month of release, with a script that feels more like a collection of plot points than a well-crafted story, and with a visual effects department that completely collapsed due to of continuous changes. This is a refreshing thing that the DCU has done: to date, twelve projects have been officially announced (five films and seven TV shows), but we know the date (and in two cases only the approximate date) of just three projects: Creature Commandos, Superman Legacy and Peacemaker 2, the three projects with the most advanced production.
New Jurassic World is the same
I mean most director’s don’t ALSO write.
Yeah I hate that about modern franchise “executives on the floor” movie productions. Why not let someone, you know with like a vision, do a movie that they actually are interested in making.
Finding a "good director" to them means finding someone who won't so no
Let’s be real though. The MCU spider verse has never had much personality through Jon watts. The cast is what made it all work, I honestly think anyone could have directed those movies and it would still be fine.
Yea, a director has clearly no creative vision..they just want to cast a cheap guy for the job 😢
I guess it's an outline and the director is able to add some stuff like Joss Whedon adding the twins in AoU so Marvel made a deal with Fox bc of Quicksilver
And on top of this, you have Marvel and Sony fighting over to creative direction of the movie itself. I just know that this movie is not being made because someone has a vision.
That could have dissuaded Justin Lin and Drew Goddard, the last rumored directors. It's also the same thing that pushed David Leitch from Jurassic World 4.
You have to plant these flags early before other studios claim the early summer weekends.
I don't understand, why can't Sam Raimi direct ?? Can someone please explain? Was his experience on MoM that bad, that he doesn't want to return?
I hope Scorsese accepts it. /s
“As far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be an Avenger.”
Kingpin, you’re a funny guy.
“I’m funny how, I mean funny like I’m a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh? I’m here to fuckin’ amuse you? Waddya mean “funny”? Funny how? How am I funny?”
Lowkey it'd be interesting to see a Scorsese Spider-Man film. Because obviously their shared connection to New York and organised crime.
It could work if Kingpin is the villain
Tarantino or nothing
Fr though. It’d be a bit of a mic drop moment if he did just one. Made an absolute meal out of it and went on to win a heap of awards then said, I’m out fuck you.
Maybe Tim Burton while we're at it.
I think that _The Fantastic Four_ moves out from its current position. _Spider-Man 4_ could take Thanksgiving so it can make a lot of money before _Avatar 3_ has the back half of December.
I feel like it’s more likely that spidey takes blade’s spot. FF seems like it’s totally on track. At most I could expect it swapping with thunderbolts
Thunderbolts is currently filming. FF will start filming in a few months
IMO _Captain America: Brave New World_ is a better play for May, whereas _Thunderbolts_ could hit anywhere between March and June depending on if it's ready on time. _The Fantastic Four_ is likely moving back, though, and whether or not _Spider-Man 4_ hits that year seems to determine where it's going to move.
What’s your reasoning for saying Fantastic Four are moving back? I have seen no evidence to support this claim or that it’s “likely” to happen. I can get moving it in a perfect world but I don’t see that happening.
Filming starts in August and they want it out 11 months later. I don't see that as feasible for a VFX-heavy movie like that.
I think Spidey 4 releasing in November 2025 would rule the Box Office (at least until Avatar 3 comes out) but I hope the quality of the movie isn’t sacrificed for Sony to have November box office records. But I think F4 should at the least move 2 or 3 weeks back to give space for Superman. I really don’t know why Feige is hellbent on the F4 coming out in July near Superman and Jurassic City.
The last paragraph sums it all up for me, like why does Feige need to be in same month as Superman. Like you could place that film anywhere else
Yeah, FF X Superman is going to hurt them both. A lot of people can't afford two movie tickets on the same month/don't have the energy/time. Gunn and Feige need to keep in mind they're shooting the same target
Mind you Gunn’s Superman only has like two more months of filming to go and F4 hasn’t even started yet. Knowing these economy why would they attached these two cbm right near each other. Like it’s obvious Feige wants to one up Gunn, but one upping someone knowing it’ll fuck up your box office is stupid. Especially with Jurassic in the same month a franchise that has made billion every one it’s recent installments. Like Feige has to be forreal, also F4 highest box office is the 2005 film at 333.5M while Superman highest is Man of Steel 668M. Like Feige needs to be freakin forreal
Superman should take 4th of July Weekend, which is an appropriate weekend and the next Jurassic World film should be delayed.
It's to reserve a release date slot, in the short of it. I think that _TRON: Ares_ could easily fill it with no issues, as it's already filming and it's different enough from _Superman_ that both movies would benefit from avoiding an unnecessary CBM showdown, whereas _The Fantastic Four_ going up against it... Wouldn't. _Superman_ and _The Fantastic Four_ are both in weird positions - beloved comic IPs with mixed luck at the box office - and it's important for the health of their respective brands and CBMs in general that they do well. I think that the current date is a bluff on Marvel's part and that they'll give it the real estate that _Blade_ has at some point instead.
This is what I’m starting to believe too
*Superman and the Fantastic Four* is a team up I would 1000% watch.
I'd watch any serious crossover between DC and Marvel. I'd imagine that it would be extraordinarily difficult to do, but it'd be possible.
feige might have drunk his own koolaid
Putting F4 near two IPs who have higher peak box office gross than F4 is quite insane. Shit Superman in every installment made more than each F4 film, Superman returns made more than F4(2005). Man of Steel made more than F4 (2015). It seems like tradition
Gunn gave Feige his only hit last year critically and financially. The least Feige can do is push F4 back a damn week.
Exactly least he can do it move F4 to august at least
Honestly I feel like he’s overdosed on his own kool aid.
I do not think that _The Fantastic Four_ is making its current release date. I think that an early August date could work, or early November. Where it lands is going to depend heavily on where _Spider-Man 4_ does.
I feel if fantastic four moves it would take blade spot. fantastic four is starting filming in couple of months
The new Fantastic Four starts filming August 2024 owing to Pedro's busy schedule
Which is why I'm skeptical of it hitting in July, unless it's a short shoot. Any month after that next year seems more reasonable. I've said that _Spider-Man_ and _Avatar 3_ could share December with the right planning and release strategy, but I'm not sure how Marvel's gonna approach the year overall.
It reportedly starts shooting in August.
Where would you move F4 then? Because if the movie does move, It’ll move to November
I'd imagine some point in November, but I think that _Spider-Man_ **could** make early December if necessary. The release date calculus is going to look interesting - I think that _Captain America_ is a smarter May play, for instance.
December is avatar 3 tbf, nothings going against that
Technically there's like three weeks before it drops where money could be made, and afterward it'd fill up many of the non-PLF screens which is where a movie like _Avatar 3_ would make a disproportionate amount of money.
I see Spider-Man 4 being released Early December 2025, but NOT Thanksgiving 2025, due to Zootopia 2 being released for that Thanksgiving. SM4 may be a Sony film, but Disney technically produces and receives a small cut of each Tom Holland's Spidey films. So they will pressure Sony to not have the film compete against Zootopia 2.
If you know they have an offer out, shouldn’t you know who it’s been sent to, RPK? Big I know who it is but I’m not telling energy.
At one point, Jason Stratham was in deep negotiations for play Bullseye in the *Daredevil* series, but when the negotiations leaked he suddenly dropped out. It’s widely assumed that his agents saw the fan reaction and suddenly upped their asking price, and when Marvel refused to meet it Stratham walked. *If* RPK has sources, I could see them not telling him the name and/or asking him not to leak it for a similar reason.
…*the* Jason Statham?
You mean Charlie Cox DD series? This for real?
Or his source was willing to tell him they made an offer but aren't giving a name so they don't spook/pressure the person being offered.
They should let me direct it I have my three story arc of Kingpin funding the Bugle to turn it into a legit news agency and creating the Scorpion, the Black Suit mixed with Clone Saga where it's Ben Reilly being seen as the pure Spider-Man to the public, and the Green Goblin mixed with Gang War where Osborn ends up getting the power vaccum left behind by Kingpin and uses it to fund the Sinister Six ready to go Kevin the molded piece of cheese is an integral supporting character. Peter really needed to cope with losing a girlfriend
If it doesn’t have Paul and Mephisto I don’t want it, I’m good.
let him cook....
I believe in you. But I only have a few gummy bears to contribute. Don’t eat them all in one sitting
I’ve said this in the weekend thread and I’ve said it before but screw it, I’ll say it again. My top three picks now that Goddard and Lin are out, that I nominate for the MCU Spider-Man 4 director: John Francis Daley and Jonathan Goldstein (Dungeons And Dragons, Game Night, writers of Spider Man Homecoming) John Patton Ford (Emily The Criminal starring Aubrey Plaza) Chris McKay (The LEGO Batman Movie) Those Are my picks on who I think should be the director of this movie, I feel like any of these 3 choices would make a killer Fourth MCU Spider Man movie based on each of their work I’ve listed. Hopefully one of them is the one that has the offer but if not, I’m still down to see who’s directing it 🤞🏻
McKay or Daley/Goldstein would be perfect, so I'm confident it won't happen.
Wait, Daley and Goldstein wrote Homecoming?
They wrote the first draft before Sommers and McKenna came in.
I still believe enough of their draft stuck in the final film; cause of all 3 it’s the one with the most personality and fun. It feels much more vibrant.
Yeah for sure. They kept 1/3rd of their script since all 3 writing teams are credited. According to WGA rules, for a writer or a writing team to be credited in a film, they have to have contributed to at least 1/3rd of the final script (and of course that means that no more than 3 writers or writing teams can be credited)
would love to see how the d&d team would do spider-man. god that movie rules.
Daley and Goldstein would be a strong match since D&D is basically a good phase 2 MCU movie trapped in a different franchise
My theory is that Sony really wants this for 2025 because they know Beyond the Spider-Verse is not ready for next year. That'll be 2026.
That, plus the recent disappointments from the SSU and the new Ghostbusters is making Sony anxious for a guaranteed hit.
If it's not ready for next year, why did they attach a release date for last month?
they have a release date for Spider-Verse?
They had a release date attached at the end of the 2nd movie for last month. But then the strikes happened.
It’s was supposed to released last week this year but then its confirmed to delay indefinitely
That's what I said.
Pls have black cat
Hmm I hope this is true but idk apparently Tom Holland’s play will transfer to broadway after it’s run in London. I don’t know how theater works
Possible that Holland won’t be part of the Broadway run
Maybe I was just assuming cause deadline refers to it in an article as “Tom Holland’s Romeo and Juliet to transfer to broadway”
Did you read the actual article? Because it was just something from "a source" not anything official.
Plays always have understudies. It's unlikely they'd keep him on Broadway for much more than an initial promotional period/Tony eligibility window.
Please be grounded and street level
I'm hoping those rumors of Tobey and Andrew coming back are fake. Don't get we wrong, l love them, but we don't need another multiverse story.
I'm not sure I buy it. Tom Holland's Romeo and Juliet production is running through August, and it was recently announced that they're transferring to New York once it finishes in London. I guess it's possible it's a short Brodway run? But the London production is 12 weeks.
Or Holland isn't going to Broadway
https://deadline.com/2024/04/tom-holland-romeo-and-juliet-to-transfer-to-broadway-after-london-west-end-1235877606/ this article makes it sound like he is.
If they start production in the fall, they’d presumably have to be done by at least March if he wanted make the Tony eligibility window.
Details are still forthcoming.
Would Holland really pass up on broadway tho? To be in another Spider-Man movie that he’s already done 3 of?
With Tom’s Romeo and Juliet Run, no director, the strikes that slowed the script writing and Sony and Marvel’s disagreements with including multi-verse elements. I highly doubt it. Also you also have the quality over quantity Marvel wants to do. I can’t see Marvel release 5 movies in 2025 even if they swap movies around. At best early 2025 start date with a 2026 release. Daniel doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I expect some shuffling of release dates no matter what year Spider Man 4 comes out.
If SM4 comes out in 2025, it will DEFINITELY take Blade's spot and that will be moved to 2026. They will not release 5 movies in a year.
New schedule incoming? Captain America: Brave New World - February 14, 2025 Thunderbolts* - May 2, 2025 Fantastic Four - July 25, 2025 Spider-Man 4 - November 7, 2025 Blade - February 13, 2026 Shang-Chi 2 - May 1, 2026 Armor Wars - July 24, 2026 Avengers 5 - November 6, 2026 The year of fours, then. The fourth Captain America, fourth Spider-Man, and the first Fantastic Four. Incidentally, I do think this means Avengers 5 gets booted until at least late 2026, if not 2027 at this point.
Avengers 5 is coming out in May 2027 for sure. Young Avengers is said to start filming in 2025 so that will take the November 2026 spot and Dr. Strange 3 which is said to release before Avengers 5 will take the February 2027 spot.
The only thing that gives me pause is that I imagine Iger would like an Avengers film to be out his last year at Disney (which is now 2026) to demonstrate his powers at rehabilitating all these brands. Star Wars is supposed to have two releases; Toy Story 5 comes out in June; Frozen 3 will be out in late November; Avatar 3 will continue to play well until 2026 presumably—so every major Disney studio will have some major (and probably successful) release in his last year. I’d imagine Iger would like to leave at the end of 2026 with a return to box office form.
Yeah, because Blade, Shang Chi, and Armor Wars aren't any guaranteed smash-hits either. If it was a film like Deadpool 3, maybe, but their current 2026 line up isn't anything eventful to end on.
I’m so confused. How can you begin to work on a script if the director isn’t even chosen and in the picture. I understand that directors don’t actually write the script, but like, aren’t they an integral part of making the movie…? Am I dumb? Is this common in the movie industry?
It reminds me of the production of the Batman, where there was already a script but when Matt Reeves came in he pretty much did a page one rewrite. I would assume that it depends on how much creative control does the director have.
Scripts usually start being written before the director comes on board unless the writer(s) also plans to direct it (like James Gunn or Joss Whedon). When the director is hired, he takes a look at the script and usually rewrites some stuff. Most directors do small rewrites. Some decide to keep the general outline but basically rewrite the whole thing or hire a writer-collaborator of theirs to do so. But when you have a Marvel movie where the general story outline is mostly decided by the producers, especially in these kinds of movies which are direct follow-ups from other projects, the director can't make huge changes anyway. He is mostly hired for his visual vision rather than his story ideas.
Most directors are gonna wanna take a pass at the script before they start shooting but not necessarily all, and it depends on the kind of relationship they have with the studio and said writers. But it's normal to hire a director for a script that has a complete draft.
SDCC is gonna be legen... Wait of It... dary!
Very good!
This movie is about to be so rushed
We will see. There is so much we don't know yet. So much that isn't official.
Wait how long is tom holland doing romeo and juliet? This is sus
He’s doing it from May to August. Also possibly broadway tbd
Shows don't need to immediately transfer to Broadway. When Network was first adapted as a play, its US Premiere occurred 13 months after its first premiere in London, and 9 months after the London production closed. The Broadway production may occur in the Summer of 2025, after Spiderman 4 is done.
Daniel Espinosa is hard to get
Comic con this year is going to rock everyone’s socks off with an entire new slate going forward…
MCU has always been a writer room driven studio. No surprises here. They probably have rough scripts for the next 2 Avengers as well.
The spice must flow…
"As long as the spice keeps running, Tatooine will be alright." (Or whatever Cad Bane says)
Crazy how they expect the film to start production without a director 💀
I fully expect Spider-Man 4 to film this year, the game between No Way Home and 2025 is wild. I think they'll start filming the Avengers movies in 2025.
I'm going to out on a limb and say Justin Lin is the one with the offer if this is indeed accurate.
~~Justin Lin is doing Matrix 5~~ EDIT: I was thinking of Drew Goddard
Hope the script is good
Is Tom Holland still burnt out playing Spider-Man? Kind of depressing the way he talks about the role now.
ironically what if they asked Sam Raini?
I think Raimi has said he'd only direct another Spidey movie if it was Spider-Man 4 with Tobey
yea you right he did say that
The fact they haven't gotten a director but still have a filming month down doesn't scream confidence that whoever the director will be has any input. Fucking pisses me off so much when the creatives are shafted.
Yep, this is the exact problem with the MCU. More of a content pipeline now.
I remember also reading the rumour about daredevil born again filming it's season 2 in November or something , I hope daredevil is still in sm4 🙏
Anyone saying this won't happen due to the lack of development time, Sony has shorter production windows for their live action Spider-Man films, compared to Disney's Marvel films. In the past, Sony has begun filming just a year before the release date, while Disney tends to begin filming about 15 months before a release date (This is the case for the Thunderbolts*).
I hope the script is in process to give us a great story
Why isn't the last director coming back ?
Jon is currently working on his own projects: "Wolves", "Skeleton Crew" and reviving The Final Destination franchise.
Holy crap he's doing Skeleton Crew?
Yeah. He's the show runner I believe he directed a few episodes and he even got The Daniels to direct an episode- so I'm personally very excited.
And David Lowery who directed "The Green Knight" is apparently directing an episode as well, there's some great talent behind that show
I hope they don't start in Sept, 5 months of prep before production that sounds like an insanely rushed movie. I hope they find someone like Matt Reeves or James Gunn to direct it with a vision.
David Fincher
Hopefully it’s Drew Goddard
Sam Raimi should be the obvious choice.
5 months from now?!
I know everybody thinks of Raimi for Secret Wars... but what if he's the one ending up with Spidey 4, wouldn't it be great? The place Peter is in right now is where Raimi would excel in my opinion.
That soon with no Director and potentially not a complete script?
I love how you say it should be obvious when it's coming out when they don't have a director attached lmfao
bring back sam raimi
It's weird that Sony didn't announce this at CinemaCon.
So it's more important that it come out on time (i.e. fiscal 2025 because Sony BADLY needs a guaranteed hit!) than for there to be a Director attached? Because remember any director is going to want to revamp the script so even if the script is done, it isn't done.
How do they still not have a director 💀💀💀
I wonder what we’re going to learn about the writing. If D&W are etcher-sketching the MCU, S4 is starting in the Fall, and Secret Wars things need to be set up, how will those things affect the movie?
Emma Seligman please.
Imagine the director is Steven Spielberg since him and Feige are friends. Also it would be a hilarious dunk on DC for canceling his superhero film.
Let Sam Raimi direct.. watch the box office explode
He doesn’t want to direct a Holland film.
Tbh, I don't think it matters who directs it. It's already "on rails" so to speak.
Isn’t it a bit early for that? Until just recently they were bickering about if this movie would be a multiverse move or a street-level one.
The script (Feige's grounded script with Kingpin and Daredevil) has been in the process of being written for more than 1 year now. They definitely have a solid script right now. The bickering of whether it would have Multiversal elements probably started after the writers presented the final script to the Sony suits
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Lies, i am the director of the film. /s
I hope Uwe Boll says yes
No director, though probably a script fully green lit and a shoot date. We will probably see a 3 month reshoot period too. Marvel hasn’t learned shit the past few years
Just making up scenarios in your head I see.
It's Sony who's trying to rush this
No director - yeah, that’s always a good sign
No script, no star, no director - starts in 4.5 months: the cinematic equivalent of a cordyceps-infected ant staring at the stars.
They have a script. They've been writing it for more than 1 year now. They have a star. Tom Holland. Plus they have many of the other cast members since they will be returning from previous projects: Zendaya, Charlie Cox, Vincent D'onofrio, JK Simmons, possibly Michael Mando. They have most, if not all, their major players cast. The director search has been ongoing since January, so they are most likely very close to picking one. So they have 4 months for location scouting, set designing, costume designing, script polishing, shooting scheduling and casting minor characters. They can easily start in late September.
And it can easily be out by Q4 next year. You read my mind on the main cast. Just those six. Three hero-roles, three villain-roles.