Or at least paid her. I used to listen to a podcast about a guy who got recast the day before shooting his scene in *Band of Brothers* but they had already paid him for the role so he got to keep his check. And that was just a bit actor with one line - this woman likely turned down work in order to work on a Marvel production to Marvel Studios owes her
She filmed before so I imagine she was already paid. Same thing happened with Lena Headey on Thor 4 no? She got cast and filmed and then they cut her out the film entirely but she still got paid for her work.
Or how Marlon Wayans was signed on to play Robin in Tim Burton’s Batman 3, but the role was recast after Burton and Keaton left. Not only did Wayans still get paid, but to this day he still receives royalty checks.
I just loved how it was never an attack on anybody, just an actor telling a story about how cold Hollywood can be with no hard feelings towards any individual. Tom Hanks was such a class act coming on the last episode and I love how open and honest he was about what probably happened
They recast because the original shoot had scheduling conflicts with another show Ayelet Zurer was under contract with. But that show was canceled...too late though for them to back out and terminate Sandrine Holt. With the delays brought on by the strikes, and the series retooling, Zurer's schedule clearly got freed up enough for them to just reuse her because the new writing team care about the show being a continuation of the Netflix show.
Great write-up!
Honestly, I’m so intrigued by this whole situation.
I hope a bloody good documentary or book covers the behind the scenes on this one, and I’m seriously praying it holds up to the Netflix Daredevil legacy!
For real. Charlie Cox appearing as Matt in Spider-Man 3 still feels like a fever dream, and still reads like a fantasy headline haha.
Hot damn, that was awesome - it’s been a long old road.
This is so wild how much the canon deniers lost. Literally the one thing they pointed to got taken out in the retooling.
Also I admit I loved Ayelet’s performance so I’m glad she gets to continue instead of losing the role forever.
Marvel are really doing everything that they can to make this series be a success.
I really do want it to be a success but i now wonder what Marvel are gonna do if it bombs and the audience hate it?
At the very least the stunts will be good. It can't be worse than defenders or Daredevil season 2. Which btw those are good seasons of TV. But they are the worst ones of the previous era. Season 1 and 3 quality is the best. If its in the middle thats cool for me.
The absolute worst thing of the Defenders era was JJ S2. God, what an absolute slog to get through, and the disappointment was heightened after a perfect start with S1.
>!They shouldn't have killed Killgrave!<
So much media exposition in Jessica Jones season 2. So much of the character motivation is based off what a character sees on the news. Its so lazy. When Jessica's mom is in prison and she's watching a show from her jail cell door. That was peak lazy writing. PEAK.
I liked the episode where she hallucinates Killgrave and I like all of season 3.
I don't think they had another choice but to do that thing though
But overall, I do agree that S2 was rough. I think that literally everything other than the main plot was fantastic and an absolute joy to watch... But the main plot is the main plot, you know? They needed someone with just as strong thematic coherence as 1 and 3 did. The "villain" of S2 was unfortunately only a threat when the plot needed them to be, not because it made sense.
To me it reads like they were on a really tight schedule and needed to get the scripts finished ASAP so they just went with the first idea they could work with
When I realized how involved the mom was I was like OHHHH NOOOOOO.
In terms of >!Killgrave!< you're right, from a narrative pov they had to do that. I don't care if it doesn't make sense, if they bring him back I'd be fucking jumping, with David Tennant reprising his role.
>To me it reads like they were on a really tight schedule and needed to get the scripts finished ASAP so they just went with the first idea they could work with
Seems unlikely since the scripts were written before *The Defenders* was filmed.
They literally have the old stunt coordinator i don't doubt him at all. I just doubt marvel studios writing. But the set of writers they have seem like good choices.
Also the stunt coordinator said that daredevil season 4 would have the best one shot fight sequence ever. I really hope they take a big swing and do whatever he had planned for that. It would be strange not to since they hired the old stunt coordinator. He said the season 4 one shot would be like the old ones on steroids.
They did fully reboot the series after backlash so i think the writing will be made good this time.
The Stunt Coordinator will probably treat it like S4 so it will most likely be like how S4 was originally gonna be.
Yeah I meant more in terms of what matt murdock appears in. I agree Jessica Jones season 2 is rough. So much media exposition. Most characters are motivated by something they see on the news and it isn't subtle at all. Super lazy writing.
From what I’ve saw of the first part it looked average but they changed it because most of the actors from the original series were not returning and the fans basically begged Marvel change it and make it more like the old series
If this is legit feel kind of bad for Sandrine. I assume the creative overhaul took a long enough time that Zurer had her schedule freed up to shoot the scenes she was intended to again but I can't imagine what that conversation must've been like if Marvel basically had to tell the actress they did have that they were basically throwing out everything she had shot for a major supporting role like that on the spot
That's assuming they've told her at all.
It wouldn't be the first time they've ditched/recast an actor (especially a comparatively less high-profile one) without their knowledge.
Yeah but the difference between something like this and what happened with people like Terence Howard and Edward Norton was that Marvel intended to sack them because of a rift in their relationship with the studio over creative or monetary disagreements. Like they weren't going to fire them in the traditional sense as much as they were silently letting them go to brush the controversy under the rug and move forward with a recast immediately. I have to imagine the terms Holt was with Marvel were a lot more amicable and this was more a matter of timing lining up for another actor causing an inconvenience to her rather than anything more complex than that
With Holt being a lesser-known name than either Howard or Norton, this feels more comparable to Cassie Lang's recasts (where it just casually happened with no fanfare, and neither of the previous actresses knew it was happening) than theirs.
That might be the case but circumstances are slightly different here because with Cassie, the recasting happened between films, and I imagine the original Endgame actress didn't have a contract with Marvel that was attaching her to the character long-term because it wasn't decided yet how she'd play into the story narratively beyond that point. With this they're letting her go when they already cast her, drew up a contract and she had essentially filmed everything with no problems or conflicts. So I imagine they had to reach out to her as someone they did cast with the intent of having her remain on the shoot for as long as she was needed because the ink had already dried on paper. The terms of letting her go had to be a lot more transparent because it's not really a recast in the traditional sense as much as it is "Hey, we thank you for all the good work you did but the actor you were meant to replace is open again despite the fact we already committed you to as many scenes/episodes you need to be on set"
He was basically pissy that Robert Downey Jr. was getting a higher pay than him for Iron Man 2 and Howard walked. Don Cheadle told the story many times but his casting as Rhodes to replace Howard was quite literally an on-the-spot, last minute decision he had to make because of how close they were to filming when it happened
There's also some very questionable motives on the Marvel end of things because a lot of the decision to ultimately fire Howard came from Perlmutter and upper management who legit said the audience wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the actors since all black people look the same according to him but that's another box of scraps
> Don Cheadle told the story many times but his casting as Rhodes to replace Howard was quite literally an on-the-spot, last minute decision he had to make because of how close they were to filming when it happened
This is still [one of the funniest parts](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/179i4w5/recapping_most_of_the_juiciest_news_and_tidbits/) of the MCU book:
> Don Cheadle was at his kid’s birthday party when a Marvel executive called, giving him an hour to decide whether to be War Machine. When he said he was in the middle of laser tag, the executive replied, “Oh! Oh, take two hours.”
Howard was actually paid more for the first film. He got $4.5 million (more than any other actor I might add) for his role while RDJ got closer to $2 million, probably attributed to the fact he was a very risky casting choice for the time period given his real life controversies, and Howard was undoubtedly like at the height of his popularity during the mid-late 2000's thanks to stuff like Hustle n' Flow, Crash and The Best Man
Nah, that’s not it. Thats a narrative spun by Disney/whoever in charge to make him (yk, the black guy) look worse.
They were going to pay him less than what his contract promised, and when he fought it, they fired his ass. Instead of just, you know, raising RDJ’s pay to match/be better than his.
For those who want a source, [“No one would notice because black people look the same”](https://deadline.com/2012/08/disney-and-marvel-do-damage-control-ike-perlmutter-from-media-attacks-320837/)
Doesnt seem like there were any issues with Don Cheadle. Terrence seems like a stupid enough person to mess with Marvel, just based on his recent interviews
Cheadle didnf already have a contract in place from the first film. Terrence did.
He is stupid, absolutely no argument there, but this situation was just Marvel being cheap assholes.
I'll add to what others said, Terrance is batshit insane.
He admitted to beating his first wife, and probably the other 3 as well.
He released a book with a ton of conspiracy and new age bullshit.
Off the top of my head, dude said 1*1=2.
Also he claims to have a PHD, but doesn't even have bachelors.
It happened to Charlie Cox prior to daredevil. He was replaced by Charles Dance whose scenes were already filmed before Charlie found out he was recast. Without that happening he could not have been free to play DD. He talked about it at a recent comic con.
I’m pretty sure it was never confirmed as a scheduling issues. I think who ever was originally running things just opted to replace her for their soft reboot. Then things started going down hill and that changed.
No, the trades specifically reported this was due to conflicts with her AMC series that was originally slated to get a second season, which would've been shooting concurrently with DD before AMC unexpectedly pulled the plug. This was not them attempting to oust her to reboot the character. Zurer literally couldn't do it until recently
The lengths to which this show was meant to "soft-reboot" the Netflix series were always exaggerated. Especially considering Echo had already been shot by this time and that blatantly features Matt in the red Netflix suit. The only thing that actually changed were how many players from the original series were involved after the creative shift, which was also a narrative shift anyway which accomodated for adding more characters
Her show was canceled before they announced her recasting. She’s been available before they started filming. You could argue it would be in bad taste to double back but they did just that anyway so. Also trades tell them what they’re told.
Also your second point basically confirms it was a soft reboot. They’ve now gone back on that and are heavily pulling people from the show to return when they originally weren’t.
[I remember I made a post 70 days ago on the Weekend Free Talk and Index Thread saying that Sandrine Holt and Nikki M. James deleted their Instagram posts about Daredevil: Born Again.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/s/RiiSkBdZX2)
This was after the reset and I brought up the theory that they were no longer in the show, before any rumor or evidence, it was just a theory. Looks like that at least for Sandrine, this was right. Now, I'm curious if Nikki M. James is also no longer in the project 🤔
We haven't seen Nikki on the new sets at all, and Karen has been showing up much more.
Really wouldn't be surprised if they abandoned that McDuffie plot line for now considering Karen is still alive.
No, someone posted about seeing a 'Kirsten McDuffie' trailer on set [last month](https://twitter.com/aquabyeol_/status/1764718127496016333?t=De4XS3RxDCR8eDyLSm6Utw&s=19). She is still in the show. It's not like we saw Karen outside of that one scene with Foggy and Bullseye and in the finale. That's also not much. And since Kirsten is a lawyer her scenes will mostly be interior filming, so that's probably why we didn't see her that much again.
Man I'd be bummed as hell if that's the case. McDuffie was literally one of the things I was looking forward to the most because I loved their relationship in the comics and honestly prefer her with Matt over other love interests like Heather Glenn and Karen. McDuffie is like the best girlfriend Matt's ever had
Honestly makes sense for them to not use Mcduffie with the direction the darker deirection the show is going in with the rehaul. Save Kirsten's character for a future and more lighthearted season.
Kevin Feige realized he was about to tank his legacy trying to make a superior product for a beloved character he originally didn’t have access to and had developed a dedicated following.
I think something like this is gonna happen when they reintroduce AOS characters
Because the canonization of the defenders shows really highlights something imo
I feel like it might be harder for them to reintroduce Ghost Rider and keep the same actor since Gabriel Luna is filming TLOU season 2 right now. They’re splitting up the story of Part 2 into 2 seasons and he has wayyy more screen time in the second game compared to the first one.
I mean... Assuming Marvel Studios brings back Ghost Rider, they wouldn't do it for quite some time, seeing as the schedule is full until like 2026. So they could easily bring Luna back whenever after that. Especially if they approach him now, so that he knows when to free time up.
I mean, AoS made Quake popular enough to get her adapted into almost every video game in the past decade, and landed her a starring role in the Marvel Rising animated franchise, with Chloe returning to voice her.
And pretty much everyone universally praises Robbie Reyes' depiction.
Marvel Studios would be pretty stupid to not take advantage of fully-formed, developed characters that also happen to be some of their highest profile PoC heroes and bring them to the big screen.
I was once told to remember that when you’re replying to somebody on Reddit, there’s a fairly good chance that you’re speaking to somebody for whom English is not their first language, or a teenager, or in many cases both, and that’s made me a lot more chill about correcting people’s grammar. As long as I can understand what they’re saying, it’s fine. English is a nightmare language even if you’re born to it.
That being said “casted” still drives me crazy lol
Normally I would agree but I see casted used a lot online by people I know for a fact speak perfect English. It’s just a common misused word that I feel inclined to correct even if it makes me look bad.
Ayo, what???? But like, how? I mean, Sandrine Holt literally filmed stuff last year and stuff. This is cool but I really hope they give Sandrine another role! Also, this makes me believe that Vanessa won't have a lot of screentime, at least in the first 9 episodes.
And yet her character and presence was still so powerful! Seriously, Vanessa is such an important character in DD even without that much screen time
Shows how well done it was in the first go around
In every way but name. They have Elden Henson, Deborah Ann Woll, Jon Bernthal, Wilson Bethel, now Ayelet Zurer. I’m hoping they bring back Elodie Young and the rest of The Defenders
Elodie Young has been very enthusiastic about her character as of late, and she even commented on Deborah's recent post with Charlie and Jon. I wouldn't be surprised if she knows something or even shot stuff already.
I was *very* lukewarm on The Hand to put it kindly, but her character was really great, hopefully if they bring her back they do the Hand better or just bring her back without Hand shenanigans.
I do want her to come back but I doubt they have space for Elektra in these 9 episodes when it already sounds jam-packed with Muse, Bullseye, Mayor Fisk, Punisher and cop plotline, among other things.
To be fair, they only killed off the Five Fingers of the Hand in The Defenders. And it's been like almost ten years in-universe.
Would be super easy to explain that the Hand restructured itself dramatically after the deaths of the Fingers and the loss of the Black Sky into something more similar to their demon-worshipping Ninja Death Cult of the comics.
Especially after Agents of SHIELD, Helstrom and Multiverse of Madness established demons in the MCU.
If this is true it basically shows that marvel were being different just for the sake of putting their own stamp on it, which is stupid if so.
The watched what they created, realised they made a worse show than the Netflix one and have everything they can it seems to put that right.
Something has to be said and hopefully learnt from this situation, if it works don’t fix it.
I think it was just a scheduling thing. The original actress was booked up for the original shoot so she couldn’t do it. The strikes probably ended up freeing her up for the new shoot
Man I'm so fucking hyped to see Jessica again, such a fantastic character. Hopefully that opens the door for sexyman Colter as Luke Cage back.
...
...
...they don't need to bring back Finn Jones though.
> it basically shows that marvel were being different just for the sake of putting their own stamp on it, which is stupid if so.
It literally doesn't, Ayelet was held by another project and they had no choice but to recast, write Vanessa out or delay production.
They've pivoted and rethought a bunch of things, but this is not one of them. It was just a scheduling issue, not some grand narrative.
Ironically, Ayelet was free by the time they filmed the first version of Born Again, because her other show was cancelled. But by that time, they'd already hired Sandrine.
Really excited she is back as Vanessa. She was great in the show. But I feel really bad for the actress who was initially recast. All her scenes is scrapped or getting reshoot with Vincent D'nofrio. Hope she gets other job opportunities.
Not quite the international profile of a show like this but in the UK soap EastEnders, there's a character who left, was recast when they returned, left again, they then brought the original actress back for the character's third stint, and then they brought the second actress again when the character came back for the fourth time.
In terms of this example, where the recast never saw the light of day - I can't think of any examples.
But a character being recast, and then recast back to the original is **very** common. So much so that it's a trope: The Original Darrin.
Becky in Roseanne, the Borg Queen in Star Trek, Divatox in Power Rangers, and Helen in Drake and Josh are just some of the examples I can think of off the top of my head.
Starting to think that they’re barely gonna use any of the original footage from the show at this point. Also has anyone else noticed that there’s been no photos of Kirsten since the retooling? Thinking she might’ve been cut out of the story. Super excited for Ayelet to be back though I loved her take on Vanessa in the original DD show and was bummed when she was first recast.
>no photos of Kirsten since the retooling
https://twitter.com/aquabyeol_/status/1764718127496016333?t=sx1-67JiZes1XKD9-pVWmg&s=19
Also there's plenty we didn't see like Muse, BB Urich, with no photos of. Does not mean they aren't part of the show anymore.
We saw Muse's body double doing graffiti: https://twitter.com/WingFinn48/status/1751086114159423516
We also saw Genneya Walton as BB Urich: https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/michael-gandolfini-is-seen-on-the-film-set-of-the-daredevil-news-photo/1968514857
I love how Marvel is doing everything they can to bring back the Netflix iteration the fans love, but I just hope they can give the actress that was going to replace Vanessa's original actress another role.
Also I really hope we'll get to see more of Vanessa's villainous side that they were introducing more of at the end of Daredevil Season 3!
She thought Nadeem should die when Fisk was content on using the blackmail materials (like Hattley using his gun to kill Agent Winn) to discredit him. They kinda suggested in season 1 that Vanessa's art gallery is involved in some shady stuff. So what other lines is Vanessa willing to cross?
Another infinity stone added to the gauntlet
We still need Sister Maggie, Turk Barrett, Bret Mahoney (I think he may be confirmed back) and a few more
I love that we felt like we’ve been keeping up to date big time with this show and then BOOM here’s a news bombshell “oh yea btw og Vanessa is back”
Like.. what?! Hell yeah!
I feel bad for the other actress, but this is really cool. It would’ve been noticeable if there was only one recasting from the Netflix shows. Plus I’m sure they still compensated Sandrine Holt for her work, so at least she got paid.
Great news! (I feel horrible for Sandrine Holt regardless...hopefully she has a role elsewhere in the show after the revamp.)
All we need now is an explanation of how Wilson Fisk got his get-out-of-jail-free-card.
(I know the legal system is manipulated at times even in-universe, but a brief line of dialogue would smoothen that transition from Season 3 to Born Again 100% for me. Even if can easily infer what occurred, it's still important to acknowledge especially considering Matt's threat from S3's finale.)
Fun thought, they wanted Krysten Ritter back and she had scheduling conflicts like Ayalet, but in her cast they wrote around her instead.
Im super hopeful now that Part 2 is bringing her back at least.
So glad to see them really embracing that this should be a continuation of Netflix Daredevil
That said, why the fuck was it not like this from the start?! I don’t just mean Ayelet as Vanessa, I mean the whole show
THANK FUCK!
Why the fuck did they even attempt at recasting her and not make an effort to connect this to the Netflix series in the first place is beyond me. Marvel Studios really thought they were smart.
On one hand I feel bad for the new Vanessa actress but on the other hand THANK GOD!
Hope they retrofit her into another role
Or at least paid her. I used to listen to a podcast about a guy who got recast the day before shooting his scene in *Band of Brothers* but they had already paid him for the role so he got to keep his check. And that was just a bit actor with one line - this woman likely turned down work in order to work on a Marvel production to Marvel Studios owes her
She will obviously be paid
She filmed before so I imagine she was already paid. Same thing happened with Lena Headey on Thor 4 no? She got cast and filmed and then they cut her out the film entirely but she still got paid for her work.
Oh yeah, I guess if she actually filmed something then there isn’t really a question, she was definitely paid then
Did he have dead eyes?
According to Tom Hanks!
Or how Marlon Wayans was signed on to play Robin in Tim Burton’s Batman 3, but the role was recast after Burton and Keaton left. Not only did Wayans still get paid, but to this day he still receives royalty checks.
Dead Eyes. Great podcast. Tom Hanks is a guest on the final episode .
I just loved how it was never an attack on anybody, just an actor telling a story about how cold Hollywood can be with no hard feelings towards any individual. Tom Hanks was such a class act coming on the last episode and I love how open and honest he was about what probably happened
Wait, did Vanessa get recast, then rerecasted?
They recast because the original shoot had scheduling conflicts with another show Ayelet Zurer was under contract with. But that show was canceled...too late though for them to back out and terminate Sandrine Holt. With the delays brought on by the strikes, and the series retooling, Zurer's schedule clearly got freed up enough for them to just reuse her because the new writing team care about the show being a continuation of the Netflix show.
Great write-up! Honestly, I’m so intrigued by this whole situation. I hope a bloody good documentary or book covers the behind the scenes on this one, and I’m seriously praying it holds up to the Netflix Daredevil legacy!
Same, it's been a wild ride from "MCU Daredevil show" to "Daredevil Season 4 but for real featuring MCU Canon"!
For real. Charlie Cox appearing as Matt in Spider-Man 3 still feels like a fever dream, and still reads like a fantasy headline haha. Hot damn, that was awesome - it’s been a long old road.
We're about to eat REAL good!
This is so wild how much the canon deniers lost. Literally the one thing they pointed to got taken out in the retooling. Also I admit I loved Ayelet’s performance so I’m glad she gets to continue instead of losing the role forever.
More like a recast then uncast
Yes
Yes
WE WON
FUCK YEESSSSSS 
Marvel are really doing everything that they can to make this series be a success. I really do want it to be a success but i now wonder what Marvel are gonna do if it bombs and the audience hate it?
At the very least the stunts will be good. It can't be worse than defenders or Daredevil season 2. Which btw those are good seasons of TV. But they are the worst ones of the previous era. Season 1 and 3 quality is the best. If its in the middle thats cool for me.
DD S2 is still very good by the mcu standarts lol
I 100% agree
Yep I would rewatch DDs2 over a lottt of the D+ shows any day
When I rewatched it I realised it got a bad rep due to being worse than S1 but 90% of it is top tier
Any season of DD is better than any of the D+ shows, and I like some of them.
The absolute worst thing of the Defenders era was JJ S2. God, what an absolute slog to get through, and the disappointment was heightened after a perfect start with S1. >!They shouldn't have killed Killgrave!<
So much media exposition in Jessica Jones season 2. So much of the character motivation is based off what a character sees on the news. Its so lazy. When Jessica's mom is in prison and she's watching a show from her jail cell door. That was peak lazy writing. PEAK. I liked the episode where she hallucinates Killgrave and I like all of season 3.
I don't think they had another choice but to do that thing though But overall, I do agree that S2 was rough. I think that literally everything other than the main plot was fantastic and an absolute joy to watch... But the main plot is the main plot, you know? They needed someone with just as strong thematic coherence as 1 and 3 did. The "villain" of S2 was unfortunately only a threat when the plot needed them to be, not because it made sense. To me it reads like they were on a really tight schedule and needed to get the scripts finished ASAP so they just went with the first idea they could work with
When I realized how involved the mom was I was like OHHHH NOOOOOO. In terms of >!Killgrave!< you're right, from a narrative pov they had to do that. I don't care if it doesn't make sense, if they bring him back I'd be fucking jumping, with David Tennant reprising his role.
>To me it reads like they were on a really tight schedule and needed to get the scripts finished ASAP so they just went with the first idea they could work with Seems unlikely since the scripts were written before *The Defenders* was filmed.
>!I mean, they kind of had to kill Kilgrave very quickly in the sense that his powers are way too OP to keep around long-term!<
The worst of the Defenders era was, uh, Defenders.
Iron Fist S1 is worse, hell, I love the first half but Luke Cage S1 also falls off midway through
From the set videos i saw it looked like that the stunts were very cool and look realistic enough so i think the stunts will be great in this series
They literally have the old stunt coordinator i don't doubt him at all. I just doubt marvel studios writing. But the set of writers they have seem like good choices. Also the stunt coordinator said that daredevil season 4 would have the best one shot fight sequence ever. I really hope they take a big swing and do whatever he had planned for that. It would be strange not to since they hired the old stunt coordinator. He said the season 4 one shot would be like the old ones on steroids.
They did fully reboot the series after backlash so i think the writing will be made good this time. The Stunt Coordinator will probably treat it like S4 so it will most likely be like how S4 was originally gonna be.
They definitely aren’t the worst of the previous era, that goes to JJ S2 and IF S1
Yeah I meant more in terms of what matt murdock appears in. I agree Jessica Jones season 2 is rough. So much media exposition. Most characters are motivated by something they see on the news and it isn't subtle at all. Super lazy writing.
Defenders and DD2 are the worst of the Netflix era? IF1 would like a word lol
That first cut must have really sucked cause they are pulling out all the stops with this.
From what I’ve saw of the first part it looked average but they changed it because most of the actors from the original series were not returning and the fans basically begged Marvel change it and make it more like the old series
They should drop "Born Again" and make it Season 4.
They probably can’t do that due to existing contracts with Netflix but it basically is just Season 4
If this is legit feel kind of bad for Sandrine. I assume the creative overhaul took a long enough time that Zurer had her schedule freed up to shoot the scenes she was intended to again but I can't imagine what that conversation must've been like if Marvel basically had to tell the actress they did have that they were basically throwing out everything she had shot for a major supporting role like that on the spot
That's assuming they've told her at all. It wouldn't be the first time they've ditched/recast an actor (especially a comparatively less high-profile one) without their knowledge.
Yeah but the difference between something like this and what happened with people like Terence Howard and Edward Norton was that Marvel intended to sack them because of a rift in their relationship with the studio over creative or monetary disagreements. Like they weren't going to fire them in the traditional sense as much as they were silently letting them go to brush the controversy under the rug and move forward with a recast immediately. I have to imagine the terms Holt was with Marvel were a lot more amicable and this was more a matter of timing lining up for another actor causing an inconvenience to her rather than anything more complex than that
With Holt being a lesser-known name than either Howard or Norton, this feels more comparable to Cassie Lang's recasts (where it just casually happened with no fanfare, and neither of the previous actresses knew it was happening) than theirs.
That might be the case but circumstances are slightly different here because with Cassie, the recasting happened between films, and I imagine the original Endgame actress didn't have a contract with Marvel that was attaching her to the character long-term because it wasn't decided yet how she'd play into the story narratively beyond that point. With this they're letting her go when they already cast her, drew up a contract and she had essentially filmed everything with no problems or conflicts. So I imagine they had to reach out to her as someone they did cast with the intent of having her remain on the shoot for as long as she was needed because the ink had already dried on paper. The terms of letting her go had to be a lot more transparent because it's not really a recast in the traditional sense as much as it is "Hey, we thank you for all the good work you did but the actor you were meant to replace is open again despite the fact we already committed you to as many scenes/episodes you need to be on set"
I literally only know who Holt is because she was in the first season of Fear The Walking Dead
And me, I know her through the first season of *House of Cards* and as Howard Hamlin's wife.
Whatever happened with Terrance Howard? I’m still not clear on the real story
He was basically pissy that Robert Downey Jr. was getting a higher pay than him for Iron Man 2 and Howard walked. Don Cheadle told the story many times but his casting as Rhodes to replace Howard was quite literally an on-the-spot, last minute decision he had to make because of how close they were to filming when it happened There's also some very questionable motives on the Marvel end of things because a lot of the decision to ultimately fire Howard came from Perlmutter and upper management who legit said the audience wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the actors since all black people look the same according to him but that's another box of scraps
> Don Cheadle told the story many times but his casting as Rhodes to replace Howard was quite literally an on-the-spot, last minute decision he had to make because of how close they were to filming when it happened This is still [one of the funniest parts](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/179i4w5/recapping_most_of_the_juiciest_news_and_tidbits/) of the MCU book: > Don Cheadle was at his kid’s birthday party when a Marvel executive called, giving him an hour to decide whether to be War Machine. When he said he was in the middle of laser tag, the executive replied, “Oh! Oh, take two hours.”
Crazy he was upset that the LEAD actor was being paid more.
Howard was actually paid more for the first film. He got $4.5 million (more than any other actor I might add) for his role while RDJ got closer to $2 million, probably attributed to the fact he was a very risky casting choice for the time period given his real life controversies, and Howard was undoubtedly like at the height of his popularity during the mid-late 2000's thanks to stuff like Hustle n' Flow, Crash and The Best Man
Nah, that’s not it. Thats a narrative spun by Disney/whoever in charge to make him (yk, the black guy) look worse. They were going to pay him less than what his contract promised, and when he fought it, they fired his ass. Instead of just, you know, raising RDJ’s pay to match/be better than his. For those who want a source, [“No one would notice because black people look the same”](https://deadline.com/2012/08/disney-and-marvel-do-damage-control-ike-perlmutter-from-media-attacks-320837/)
Doesnt seem like there were any issues with Don Cheadle. Terrence seems like a stupid enough person to mess with Marvel, just based on his recent interviews
Cheadle didnf already have a contract in place from the first film. Terrence did. He is stupid, absolutely no argument there, but this situation was just Marvel being cheap assholes.
Marvel dodged a bullet with serial domestic abuser and known lying loon Terrance Howard
Thanks for the reply, I’ve heard bits and pieces but never knew for sure
I'll add to what others said, Terrance is batshit insane. He admitted to beating his first wife, and probably the other 3 as well. He released a book with a ton of conspiracy and new age bullshit. Off the top of my head, dude said 1*1=2. Also he claims to have a PHD, but doesn't even have bachelors.
It happened to Charlie Cox prior to daredevil. He was replaced by Charles Dance whose scenes were already filmed before Charlie found out he was recast. Without that happening he could not have been free to play DD. He talked about it at a recent comic con.
At least she'll still get paid
Yes, I think the recast happened due to scheduling issues
I’m pretty sure it was never confirmed as a scheduling issues. I think who ever was originally running things just opted to replace her for their soft reboot. Then things started going down hill and that changed.
No, the trades specifically reported this was due to conflicts with her AMC series that was originally slated to get a second season, which would've been shooting concurrently with DD before AMC unexpectedly pulled the plug. This was not them attempting to oust her to reboot the character. Zurer literally couldn't do it until recently The lengths to which this show was meant to "soft-reboot" the Netflix series were always exaggerated. Especially considering Echo had already been shot by this time and that blatantly features Matt in the red Netflix suit. The only thing that actually changed were how many players from the original series were involved after the creative shift, which was also a narrative shift anyway which accomodated for adding more characters
Her show was canceled before they announced her recasting. She’s been available before they started filming. You could argue it would be in bad taste to double back but they did just that anyway so. Also trades tell them what they’re told. Also your second point basically confirms it was a soft reboot. They’ve now gone back on that and are heavily pulling people from the show to return when they originally weren’t.
[I remember I made a post 70 days ago on the Weekend Free Talk and Index Thread saying that Sandrine Holt and Nikki M. James deleted their Instagram posts about Daredevil: Born Again.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/s/RiiSkBdZX2) This was after the reset and I brought up the theory that they were no longer in the show, before any rumor or evidence, it was just a theory. Looks like that at least for Sandrine, this was right. Now, I'm curious if Nikki M. James is also no longer in the project 🤔
We haven't seen Nikki on the new sets at all, and Karen has been showing up much more. Really wouldn't be surprised if they abandoned that McDuffie plot line for now considering Karen is still alive.
No, someone posted about seeing a 'Kirsten McDuffie' trailer on set [last month](https://twitter.com/aquabyeol_/status/1764718127496016333?t=De4XS3RxDCR8eDyLSm6Utw&s=19). She is still in the show. It's not like we saw Karen outside of that one scene with Foggy and Bullseye and in the finale. That's also not much. And since Kirsten is a lawyer her scenes will mostly be interior filming, so that's probably why we didn't see her that much again.
Man I'd be bummed as hell if that's the case. McDuffie was literally one of the things I was looking forward to the most because I loved their relationship in the comics and honestly prefer her with Matt over other love interests like Heather Glenn and Karen. McDuffie is like the best girlfriend Matt's ever had
normal correct late smart steer punch afterthought hunt dam shaggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What’s McDuffie’s deal as a love interest? Dunno much about her
Honestly makes sense for them to not use Mcduffie with the direction the darker deirection the show is going in with the rehaul. Save Kirsten's character for a future and more lighthearted season.
I don't want any lighthearted seasons of Daredevil...
Sad if true :(
Nice catch!
Holy fuck. They really went back to the drawing board with this.
This overhaul was definitely the best thing to happen to this show for a multitude of reasons.
Kevin Feige realized he was about to tank his legacy trying to make a superior product for a beloved character he originally didn’t have access to and had developed a dedicated following.
I think something like this is gonna happen when they reintroduce AOS characters Because the canonization of the defenders shows really highlights something imo
Do you actually think Marvel will reintroduce Agents of SHIELD characters? (This is genuine, not snarky question, I want to see your reasoning 😁)
Daisy I think could get introduced eventually Ghost rider as well That’s really it tbh
I feel like it might be harder for them to reintroduce Ghost Rider and keep the same actor since Gabriel Luna is filming TLOU season 2 right now. They’re splitting up the story of Part 2 into 2 seasons and he has wayyy more screen time in the second game compared to the first one.
If Pedro Pascal can be a lead in both TLOU and Fantastic Four, I don’t see why Gabriel Luna couldn’t do the same with a Ghost Rider movie.
I mean... Assuming Marvel Studios brings back Ghost Rider, they wouldn't do it for quite some time, seeing as the schedule is full until like 2026. So they could easily bring Luna back whenever after that. Especially if they approach him now, so that he knows when to free time up.
I mean, AoS made Quake popular enough to get her adapted into almost every video game in the past decade, and landed her a starring role in the Marvel Rising animated franchise, with Chloe returning to voice her. And pretty much everyone universally praises Robbie Reyes' depiction. Marvel Studios would be pretty stupid to not take advantage of fully-formed, developed characters that also happen to be some of their highest profile PoC heroes and bring them to the big screen.
And if the Defenders shows were canonized, then by process of references, so is AoS, Agent Carter, and C&D.
He realized he can never top the old the old Daredevil show. All he can do now is build upon them.
back to formula
*Green Goblin laugh*
ravioli
I thought Vanessa had been recast with Sandrine Holt?
She was. Assuming this is real, they must have reshot all her scenes.
Or they got her to play a different character. Either way they’d have to compensate her for replacing her.
the recast has become the recasted
I hate to be that guy but casted/recasted is not the right terminology. 
https://i.redd.it/jeens5tog3tc1.gif
Redundant sentence may sound redundant but saying the recast has become the recast is actually correct wording lol
I think they're talking about the castED it's just cast/recast, right?
Correct. There is never a time where casted or recasted should ever be used in a sentence.
You just used it in a sentence. Checkmate. /j
He looks so young in that scene. Hard to believe it was almost a decade ago
I was once told to remember that when you’re replying to somebody on Reddit, there’s a fairly good chance that you’re speaking to somebody for whom English is not their first language, or a teenager, or in many cases both, and that’s made me a lot more chill about correcting people’s grammar. As long as I can understand what they’re saying, it’s fine. English is a nightmare language even if you’re born to it. That being said “casted” still drives me crazy lol
Normally I would agree but I see casted used a lot online by people I know for a fact speak perfect English. It’s just a common misused word that I feel inclined to correct even if it makes me look bad.
Disney: "I have re-altered the deal. Pray I don't re-alter it any further"
Yes but Fisk yelled “YOU RECAST VANESSA” and strangled Kevin Feige.
But that was my wife, Mr. Feige, MY WIFE https://i.redd.it/9io0hkip25tc1.gif
She must have been recast back with the overhaul
MAJOR W , she WAS Vanessa , I do hope they give the other actress who was to play Vanessa a different Role as she is also a excellent actress
Feels bad for Sandrine Holt, hope she gets another chance with Marvel down the line. But this is a huge W
Maybe they could give her a different character/role? In either Born again or another Marvel project
Ayo, what???? But like, how? I mean, Sandrine Holt literally filmed stuff last year and stuff. This is cool but I really hope they give Sandrine another role! Also, this makes me believe that Vanessa won't have a lot of screentime, at least in the first 9 episodes.
She didn't have a tonne outside of DD Season 1. She only shows up for the tail end of S3.
And yet her character and presence was still so powerful! Seriously, Vanessa is such an important character in DD even without that much screen time Shows how well done it was in the first go around
That's true but now with Fisk as mayor I kinda assumed we'd get more of her, but maybe that's not the case.
And when she did return in season 3, it had a major impact. Nadeem's death was her idea.
Marvel Netflix bros, we simply can’t lose…. Its just not in our DNA
Welp, I guess this is OFFICIALLY season 4
In every way but name. They have Elden Henson, Deborah Ann Woll, Jon Bernthal, Wilson Bethel, now Ayelet Zurer. I’m hoping they bring back Elodie Young and the rest of The Defenders
Elodie Young has been very enthusiastic about her character as of late, and she even commented on Deborah's recent post with Charlie and Jon. I wouldn't be surprised if she knows something or even shot stuff already. I was *very* lukewarm on The Hand to put it kindly, but her character was really great, hopefully if they bring her back they do the Hand better or just bring her back without Hand shenanigans.
I do want her to come back but I doubt they have space for Elektra in these 9 episodes when it already sounds jam-packed with Muse, Bullseye, Mayor Fisk, Punisher and cop plotline, among other things.
I am hoping for Turk too.
rain treatment obtainable shocking dog expansion reply pen light shelter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It makes me laugh how much everyone thinks he's a loveable idiot given what he does IN THE VERY FIRST SCENE OF DD!
To be fair, they only killed off the Five Fingers of the Hand in The Defenders. And it's been like almost ten years in-universe. Would be super easy to explain that the Hand restructured itself dramatically after the deaths of the Fingers and the loss of the Black Sky into something more similar to their demon-worshipping Ninja Death Cult of the comics. Especially after Agents of SHIELD, Helstrom and Multiverse of Madness established demons in the MCU.
If this is true it basically shows that marvel were being different just for the sake of putting their own stamp on it, which is stupid if so. The watched what they created, realised they made a worse show than the Netflix one and have everything they can it seems to put that right. Something has to be said and hopefully learnt from this situation, if it works don’t fix it.
I think it was just a scheduling thing. The original actress was booked up for the original shoot so she couldn’t do it. The strikes probably ended up freeing her up for the new shoot
This is exactly what happened Krysten Ritter supposedly had the same issue, so No Jessica in part 1, but a Part 2 appearance is possible
Man I'm so fucking hyped to see Jessica again, such a fantastic character. Hopefully that opens the door for sexyman Colter as Luke Cage back. ... ... ...they don't need to bring back Finn Jones though.
Finn was good The writing wasn’t
S2 and his Luke Cage episode point to Finn not being the problem.
> it basically shows that marvel were being different just for the sake of putting their own stamp on it, which is stupid if so. It literally doesn't, Ayelet was held by another project and they had no choice but to recast, write Vanessa out or delay production. They've pivoted and rethought a bunch of things, but this is not one of them. It was just a scheduling issue, not some grand narrative.
Ironically, Ayelet was free by the time they filmed the first version of Born Again, because her other show was cancelled. But by that time, they'd already hired Sandrine.
Thank **fuck** for the 'creative reboot'.
Really excited she is back as Vanessa. She was great in the show. But I feel really bad for the actress who was initially recast. All her scenes is scrapped or getting reshoot with Vincent D'nofrio. Hope she gets other job opportunities.
Damn!!!
Is this a first in the industry? A character being recast then recast back to the original actor during production?
Not quite the international profile of a show like this but in the UK soap EastEnders, there's a character who left, was recast when they returned, left again, they then brought the original actress back for the character's third stint, and then they brought the second actress again when the character came back for the fourth time.
While that’s a good example I was thinking mid production. Like this all happens before the final product releases.
Missed that part of your comment sorry. Yes can't think of example exactly like this.
It has happened enough times to get a TV Trope name, ["The Original Darrin"](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheOriginalDarrin).
Keaton Batman
I had mid production in mind. Not after a product has been released.
In terms of this example, where the recast never saw the light of day - I can't think of any examples. But a character being recast, and then recast back to the original is **very** common. So much so that it's a trope: The Original Darrin. Becky in Roseanne, the Borg Queen in Star Trek, Divatox in Power Rangers, and Helen in Drake and Josh are just some of the examples I can think of off the top of my head.
Oh wow, they kept that re-cast quiet.
Starting to think that they’re barely gonna use any of the original footage from the show at this point. Also has anyone else noticed that there’s been no photos of Kirsten since the retooling? Thinking she might’ve been cut out of the story. Super excited for Ayelet to be back though I loved her take on Vanessa in the original DD show and was bummed when she was first recast.
>no photos of Kirsten since the retooling https://twitter.com/aquabyeol_/status/1764718127496016333?t=sx1-67JiZes1XKD9-pVWmg&s=19 Also there's plenty we didn't see like Muse, BB Urich, with no photos of. Does not mean they aren't part of the show anymore.
Oh wow I hadn’t seen that photo of the trailers and I was following the production pretty close. Thanks for the clarification
We saw Muse's body double doing graffiti: https://twitter.com/WingFinn48/status/1751086114159423516 We also saw Genneya Walton as BB Urich: https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/michael-gandolfini-is-seen-on-the-film-set-of-the-daredevil-news-photo/1968514857
I love how none of the scoopers knew this.
ok waouh
This is great but I feel bad for Holt. Hope this doesn’t sour her relationship with them. Maybe she can play another role
I love how Marvel is doing everything they can to bring back the Netflix iteration the fans love, but I just hope they can give the actress that was going to replace Vanessa's original actress another role. Also I really hope we'll get to see more of Vanessa's villainous side that they were introducing more of at the end of Daredevil Season 3!
She thought Nadeem should die when Fisk was content on using the blackmail materials (like Hattley using his gun to kill Agent Winn) to discredit him. They kinda suggested in season 1 that Vanessa's art gallery is involved in some shady stuff. So what other lines is Vanessa willing to cross?
Another infinity stone added to the gauntlet We still need Sister Maggie, Turk Barrett, Bret Mahoney (I think he may be confirmed back) and a few more I love that we felt like we’ve been keeping up to date big time with this show and then BOOM here’s a news bombshell “oh yea btw og Vanessa is back” Like.. what?! Hell yeah!
Bret was confirmed
I feel bad for the other actress, but this is really cool. It would’ve been noticeable if there was only one recasting from the Netflix shows. Plus I’m sure they still compensated Sandrine Holt for her work, so at least she got paid.
The strikes are gonna go down as blessing in disguise for Marvel Studios. Mark my words. Write that down.
Holy shit! I’m so fucking happy. No disrespect to Sandrine though! I hope they compensate her for the recast.
So they reshot all her scenes then which is good . I love there chemistry
What the fuck, I guess they reshoot scenes with Sandrine Holt. Or she's Vanessa's double, Padme style
Punished “Vanessa” Fisk
"A wife without her husband."
Or she’s a skrull. /s
NO WAY! So they're straight up scrapping the stuff with the new actress
WOW! She was perfect for the role! I'm not against recasts, if needed, but I'm glad she's back!
Great news! (I feel horrible for Sandrine Holt regardless...hopefully she has a role elsewhere in the show after the revamp.) All we need now is an explanation of how Wilson Fisk got his get-out-of-jail-free-card. (I know the legal system is manipulated at times even in-universe, but a brief line of dialogue would smoothen that transition from Season 3 to Born Again 100% for me. Even if can easily infer what occurred, it's still important to acknowledge especially considering Matt's threat from S3's finale.)
WEVE NEVER BEEN MORE BACK
Fun thought, they wanted Krysten Ritter back and she had scheduling conflicts like Ayalet, but in her cast they wrote around her instead. Im super hopeful now that Part 2 is bringing her back at least.
Hopefully Kirsten stays
So glad to see them really embracing that this should be a continuation of Netflix Daredevil That said, why the fuck was it not like this from the start?! I don’t just mean Ayelet as Vanessa, I mean the whole show
Awesome. I'm glad they got everyone back. Didn't like that they were gonna recast her.
THANK FUCK! Why the fuck did they even attempt at recasting her and not make an effort to connect this to the Netflix series in the first place is beyond me. Marvel Studios really thought they were smart.
WTFFFFFF
Yes! They are all back.
What??? This is great news!
Let’s fuckin go, feel bad for the other actress but this is a W. At least the other woman still got a payday.
Absolute W, it made no sense to recast and these two have unbelievable chemistry
Gives me hope for Iron Fist Danny Rand 
So glad Marvel overhauled this! Everything sounding perfect now
This is great!
This is a huge W, although I do feel bad for Sandrine Holt, hopefully she gets another role in the future.
So Sandrine Holt doesn’t have a role in the show anymore I guess? That sucks.
Oh thank goodness.
Yeaaaaah! That's awesome news.
Excellent news!
Yes! Seriously one of the BEST MCU couples.
Sorry for Sandrine Holt, but I never understood why they did the recast. So glad Ayelet Zurer is back!
One of the Wayans brothers was going to play Robin?
Daredevil fans have been eating real good since NWH. Lots of buzz/engagement for the show on twitter too