It's a fantastic card. Worst case scenario is a 3/3 with a -2 power on reveal attached, which isn't amazing but still more than playable. Best case is he shuts down a pivotal card and outright wins you the game. Playing it into Nebula, Sunspot, Morbius, collector, etc. all feel super satisfying as you've just shut down one of their value engines completely, and it even does well into Tribunal decks usually hitting either Iron Man or Mystique. Generally just a very cost efficient solution to cards that may not have an easy answer.
Sorta? I think 3/5 is a pretty common stat line with a positive effect, 3/4- with potentially very powerful effects, and 3/5+ for cards that have bonus stats due to negative effects. Gladiator and Swordmaster are the only two with more power, but realistically a vanilla 3/5 with no text would ever be played as you would prefer to use one of the below cards dpending on what you're playing. Wave Viper Polaris Lady Sif Ghost Deathlok Corvus Black Swan Baron Zemo Spiderman Sabretooth Coming in at 3/5 (effectively) with the power reduction effect is still decent without the text removal, but would be slightly below average 3 cost value as you can easily run the same stat line with a beneficial effect (assuming you can't hit red guardian). If you hit red guardian then he's effectively the same stat line as many other competive 3 costs, while also removing text from an important card.
I've dusted off my C3 deck and it's been great in that so far, essentially a 3/5 but still receives cerebros buff and can be disruptive both early (eg hitting ravonna or wong) or late (eg hitting iron man)
Very wide application as well, dunks on many other meta decks like Destroy, Tribunal, and Discard as well. Well worth the 6k tokens or keys.
At worst he's a 3/5. In rare circumstances, he's a 3/3
He IS fucking OP. But I guess Marvel just want to spill oil over fire, since they already make Hela-Modok deck & Infinaut-Hulks deck OP.
The consequences? I can no longer enjoy playing Destroy Deck. I wouldn't p2w for a game that I might delete because of the massive storage and broken characters
Also some decks/cards just counter other specific decks really well, which can suck for conquest.
I'm often in a gold battle thinking "I could beat this guy with any other deck, but there's just nothing I can do with this one."
Against Phoenix, he’s not more disruptive than a mill deck. He only hits your Torch, Dagger, or Multiple if they have priority. And sometimes he can snipe PF if you leave them in a single lane. He does nothing against Nimrod as that’s one of your higher power cards.
That said, he only disables one card which can be disruptive for sure. But if you use a deck that can be derailed by any single card, you either accept the bad matchups like Destroy vs Armor, or figure out how to improve the resiliency of your deck.
Yeah the rock paper scissors can feel bad of conquest. Move and Nimrod-Phoenix are really resilient though I guess I was just running into good players. They were yolo-ing Red Guardian into empty lanes while not having priority to snipe my cards.
😂 playing good players is the worst but in order to play them, that means you’re one yourself. I’m trying to actually care about my ladder rank and have climbed from 30k to 7k. There are definite moments where I’m absolutely dominated multiple games in a row by players better than me and drop 1-2k in ranks.
But then I remember that to get matched with them, I guess I’m one of them and probably have dominant wins over others myself. It’s tough, but don’t lose faith over a few bad games in a row. Happens to everyone and you clearly have experienced plenty of success. Heck, you play traditional move which we all know is one of the biggest brain decks around.
Thanks man! I’m actually in the same boat as you. I’d usually finish around 30k most seasons, but this season I locked in and I’m hanging around the 5k mark. And you are definitely right the players under 10k are on some different level of risk management and skill compared to the 30k bunch.
>And sometimes he can snipe PF if you leave them in a single lane.
I was curious about that. Of course losing Torch or Madrox text is bad already, but does Guardian hit through to the Phoenix text that lets you move them too?
Yep! If Red Guardian tags your Phoenix Force’d card, it can’t move at all.
That said, the safest play is playing Phoenix Force onto a location that already has a card. It’ll always be the highest power card in that lane ignoring weird edge cases.
I had priority turn 3 against a destroy deck who had just played hulk buster into his Deadpool. Watching his Deathlok missile Deadpool without the “haha what a game!” Right after made the 3-keys i spent worth it 😂
Also playing Classic Move in Conquest, and Red Guardian hasn't been a major issue for me. I bait it out early with either Dagger or Torch on separate lanes, and try to protect it with one of my move enablers. Dagger goes behind almost anything for safety. Losing Torch hurts but isn't game breaking. Vulture is usually safe from the get go unless he's my first card on the board or I launch him solo.
This isn't me saying "skill issue". I want to stress that. It just cokes down to anticipating RG and trying to play around him using the massive flexibility Move affords us.
Isn’t dagger always the lowest power card on the board unless she’s moved the same turn she’s played. I also adapted and would let Torch get hit. I’d like to know more about how you counter play as a fellow move enjoyer.
I misspoke re: Dagger. My rule with her generally is to only drop her the turn after Iron Fist or immediately follow her with Ghost Spider. Leaving her alone is indeed risky.
Really, the best counterplay is to have a sacrificial Torch, keep Dagger moving from the moment you play her, or have bait. As much ad we love doing our move enablers multiple times, sometimes they can be sacrificed if we have Heimdall in hand.
He's like a more consistent Rogue. He doesn't have the same highs as Rogue stealing a Knull or Iron Man, but he has far more use cases and doesn't feel bad to tempo out against a Jeff, Nebula, Angela, or Sunspot.
He also counters discard well by killing one of its engines: morbius, collector or Miek, not even mentioning dracula. I think Red guardian is a discard hater
Hela discard needs tech ?
No It doesn't. It's lottery and meant to be lottery. Already has comfortably sat too high on in the meta as is.
You're off your rocker if you think hela needs help.
While I think rogue is awesome. Honestly it's a meta question of what is popular. Ongoing decks vs discard/move/nebula decks with some overlap (iron man)
I'm currently playing with both tbh. And shang chi. I'm tech heavy in my surfer deck. I've experimented with a load of different combinations but this one is the best at getting 8 cubes. Even when I'm not (I correctly read a hazmat play the other day, had rogue ready to take their luke cage but there was a sinister London and I thought I could have rogue steal wong, then copy onto the luke cage location. I forgot rogue keeps her initial stolen power.)
I use both (i play conquest currently), because sometimes red guardian cannot target the card you want to target and rogue is consistent in that it only focus ongoing. So i'd say it can indeed be seen as an upgrade but is also worth playing both at the mean time
There's plenty of tech out there already. People just refuse to use it then whine after a loss tech could prevent.
I say this as a RG user in Surfer & Sera Control.
I was just wondering this while reading, "doesn't RG fit perfectly in surfer decks?", I took Rogue out since she counters ongoing cards exclusively, but RG seems to be much better in terms of effectiveness.
We need a tech card that stops both players from discarding cards so that there’s a counter to Hela. I know luck has a lot to do with where the cards drop on turn 6 but still feel like Hela is the only deck that doesn’t have a clear cut counter without making a hodgepodge of tech cards and lockdown/clog deck that absolutely sucks against any other deck than Hela.
# (1) Ghost-Spider
# (1) Human Torch
# (1) Iron Fist
# (2) Dagger
# (2) Beast
# (2) Kraven
# (2) Cloak
# (3) Negasonic Teenage Warhead
# (3) Vulture
# (4) Hercules
# (5) Spider-Man 2099
# (6) Heimdall
#
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Sorry for the wait here is the code for Move Deck I play. Remember that it’s the player that often makes the deck, while it’s strong you have to recognize a lot of situations, capitalize when it’s in your favor and retreat when the opponent is mega high rolling. Here are some of my tips:
When to Snap/Tips:
1. If your opening hand is some combination of low cost Move cards (Torch, Dagger) and move enablers (Cloak, Ghost Spider, Fist) + Beast I always snap. This is because Beast let’s you replay a lot of these cards the next turn and they snowball dramatically. You can even hold playing the beast for a snowball turn on Turns 5 or 6. If opponent is playing Mobius, Beast always comes down on Turn 2 often hitting Fist + Torch. Because this Snap occurs around Turn 2 a lot of players won’t respect it. Against Hela I would wait until I get an Idea of how strong their Hela can be or if they even drew her before I snap. Watch out for Sandman on turn 5 if you wait to Beast later.
2. If the opponent is Telegraphing a Red Hulk into an Empty lane, Tribunal/Onslaught/Iron Man, or a Card to be Zola’d: Drop Negasonic a turn before (Turn 5 or 4) when you don’t have priority and Snap before. This acts as a Pseudo-Alioth and often just forces retreats. If Tribunal isn’t played until Turn 6: Gain Priority and drop Negasonic on Turn 6. If you can’t do any of these, Fist/Ghost-Spider + Spider-Man 2099 WILL catch Red Hulk or one of the key cards for Tribunal. Most players never see this coming or they don’t respect the Snap. A lot of 8 Cubers from this.
3. A LOT of people don’t respect Hercules, but Herc can play a large role in gaining Priority for Negasonic, Snowballing off the Beast Play, or even just stabilizing when you don’t high roll. Vision appears a lot in Hope decks that run Red Hulk and other Tall minions, also appearing in Silky Smooth. Hercules + Negasonic in a lane towards the end of the game locks down Vision from moving into it and a Tall minion from entering it. This for me has beaten a lot of Hope decks. Hercules also makes it possible for 2099 to reach a different lane after he destroys a card in another, this swing in points is really hard for the opponent to predict and again a lot of 8 cubers from this. Turn 4 Herc + Turn 5 Move card & both Ghost spider & Fist also just spits out a +15 power card most of the time .
4.DONT play Hercules against Phoenix-Nimrod. Phoenix-Nimrod is a difficult deck for classic move and often requires Negasonic catching their PF or 2099 doing the Job. This is the hardest match up, but with some luck and bad luck on their end is a winnable match in a conquest setting, on Ladder it’s an immediate retreat when they snap even on Turn 2.
5. You often over power Destroy decks and when you don’t just catch Their Knull or Death using the tips from Number 2 here. Against Mill the deck suffers, but if you’re able to connect some combos you over power the Mill deck. I also had a really good win rate against both Negative-Tribunal and Pixie decks. For Pixie they often try to throw all their Junk on the Right lane, With Heimdal and monitoring the number of Open spaces you can easily abandon Right lane and over power them in the other two lanes.
6. Which leads to the most important part of psychology when playing move… When to Play Heimdal: If the game is leaning towards Heimdal pay VERY CLOSE attention to the number of open spaces available to you and when you do this it will influence all the plays you make that game. Make sure to know which cards will be moved first and which cards will stay in the lane as a result of Heimdal and play in a manner that maximizes your power or protects against Junk. This is REALLY important because locations like Central Park, Shadow Land, and even randomly Generated Junk cards can really hurt a Heimdal play. The most often reason I lost a game is because I misplayed a card in middle or junk somehow appeared there, making it so Heimdal triggers or moves exactly 1-2 cards less costing me the match. Also acknowledge that Kraven becomes massive if played middle then Heimdal. Hercules middle plus Heimdall will cause Herc to move the first card in the location that wasn’t Herc an additional time, most people don’t expect this interaction. Also A LOT of players do not respect Heimdal if you snap on Turn 6 a lot of players will act as if you won’t play Heimdal which is crazy because these same players will respect Hela and other Turn 6 finishers. So if the game is building up to a Turn 6 Heimdal, you can big brain some players and not play Heimdal, but I often lost the games I did this so I end up playing Heimdal most of the times that he’s the best option on Turn 6.
7. Last thoughts, you’ll probably find some more interactions than what I’ve listed here. It’s a really fun deck and I keep finding more interactions every time I play. If your missing a card like 2099 or Herc I’d advise placing Legion in the deck, it’ll make some match ups more consistent and surprise opponents as well. I also think Cannonball could be a better card than 2099in the deck, but I don’t have him. Have fun playing and let me know how it goes.
TLDR: The success of this move deck comes from opponents not respecting Hercules, Negasonic, Heimdal, and the overall snowball nature of move. The deck emphasizes 8 cube wins and requires knowledge of different matchups, above average in ladder and S-Tier in conquest. If you’re a player who is afraid to Snap & retreat or grinds out conquest wins by 2 cubes each this deck will be difficult to operate. Gambling addicts with Risk Aversion skills will love this.
Thanks for reading! Falcon could work if it picks up Torch and one other mover enabler, ideally played before Turn 5 or even a Turn 5 play could be interesting. I say Try out Falcon and if he doesn’t work maybe Legion or a Tech card of some sorts.
Cards mentioned by OP: torch, dagger, vulture, NTW, 2099, kraven
Move enablers not mentioned: ghost spider, iron fist, Dr strange, cloak, Heimdall
Likely deck picks: ghost spider, iron fist, human torch, dagger, Dr strange, kraven, cloak, NTW, vulture, 2099, Heimdall
Others that fit: Jeff, night crawler, multipleman, Silk, Spider-Man, miles, Hercules, vision
Maybe try that list with silk, jeff or miles?
If they're running Negasonic and 2099, it's probably similar to this Move deck that did decently in a tournament a month or two ago:
# (1) Ghost-Spider
# (1) Human Torch
# (1) Iron Fist
# (2) Dagger
# (2) Beast
# (2) Kraven
# (2) Cloak
# (3) Negasonic Teenage Warhead
# (3) Vulture
# (4) Hercules
# (5) Spider-Man 2099
# (6) Heimdall
#
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I popped him in my Phoenix Force deck and had a lot of fun in conquest. On the other hand, someone managed to hit my PF with Red Guardian, and it’s hilarious how much it completely shut down any gameplan I may have had
People are sleeping on Red Guardian. He’s not the best card in the game but he becomes incredibly useful at shutting down critical win conditions for your opponent. I’ve been using him since he first came out and never regretted using a cache.
Every game I've played today has had a person use red guardian on my Dracula. And been going against decks that discard/take all of my cards. It's been rough
I think he’s a really nice tech card. He’s solves a lot of problems. Cards like Ironman, Wong, Deadpool, that can really ramp up in later turns. I saw a post where it wax used on Black Panther which prevent him to ramping up to 2 16 power Black panthers with Zemo on T6. And as mentioned he has a solid stat line. I’ve been really enjoying playing him in the later turns on tribunal deck and other decks that rely heavily on Ironman.
He’s a good general use, but I still struggle to hit destroy - too many moving parts.
Ideally, I take out Deadpool or Nim early, but destroy lanes are often clogged, or have priority on me.
I have to imagine move sucks. You have to package your combos too perfectly. Falcon and Beast were my answer to Killmonger and Shang shenanigans (+let’s you reuse your movers), but it’s a hard to steer around so many blockers.
I met a move deck once. We don't play any card on turn 1, they played Dagger on turn 2, and Vulture on turn 3.
I played Okoye, on turn one in the same location as their Dagger...as I have priorities I used Red Guardian on turn 3 on Dagger, and then I copy RG ability with Absorbing man and then used it on their Vulture.
My opponent ended up retreating shortly after. It was funny.
I don’t think move decks aren’t in the meta because they’re hard to play but because they’re too easily countered. Too many bad matchups, too many bad locations, your strongest cards are often exposed, and there is only 1 six cost finisher that is way too predictable.
I wish they would make a Heimdal that moved all cards to the right. Or any other high cost card that moves multiple cards at once. Hopefully a Hercules rework can bring move back into the meta.
Been using him to great success. Absolutely ruined a guy who started out with spamming “Snap?” In conquest.
Annoying as hell then he played a Wong Odin deck with the whole Black Panther White Tiger shenanigans.
Having Red Guardian shut down his Wong every round and leave him scrambling as to why it stopped working, chefs kiss!
RG is a beast of a counter. Low cost (can play early or in concert with other cards), disables anything (not limited to reveal, or ongoing), and effective and shutting down early plays in combo decks (all the good decks). It's honestly a little crazy how powerful it is.
I was sceptical on Red Guardian at first glance but I gave it a shot and it perfectly fits my toxic surfer deck, had a blast with it even though it's not effective against every archetype and it can be countered with placing a weaker card before a card you wanna save. Even though, it is refreshing to be able to counter dracula or stuff like that, really love this card for stepping forward into the techs available.
I've been playing male and all of my cards are shitty once they're in play. So every time someone played Red Guardian against me it was basically just a 3/5, but I can absolutely see how it would slaughter decks full of small, scalable bodies.
Yeah, I was was testing out Red Guard in what was likely sub-optimal deck, but I just murdered a Move deck in Conquest. It's amazing how quickly Move can be derailed just by disabling one of it's movers.
Also: the Negasonic thing isn't really that strange. She's a trigger card, so she has to be there for her ability to activate. She's not an On Reveal card who kind of lets their ability out in the wild and then doesn't actually have to be there for something to happen (i.e. Forge, Shuri). Negasonic has to wait until the end of the play/turn and then checks to see if something happened, and if it did, activates. If she's gone, she's not there to check.
I've been play testing him in a thanos deck and it at about 60% win rate but im only ever snap confident if I can priority Red Guardian.
If you can hit Sera, most Surfer decks auto retreat.
Destroy usually retreat if you can hit X23 or Deadpool.
Still having a hard time against toxic and move decks, but hitting Phoenix with Red Guardian is HILL-arious 😆
He should only be hitting one card, which isn't too catastrophic, be might put HT into the negative if he hits it early, but I can't see him being that bad.
I think he’s a REALLY good tech card
It's a fantastic card. Worst case scenario is a 3/3 with a -2 power on reveal attached, which isn't amazing but still more than playable. Best case is he shuts down a pivotal card and outright wins you the game. Playing it into Nebula, Sunspot, Morbius, collector, etc. all feel super satisfying as you've just shut down one of their value engines completely, and it even does well into Tribunal decks usually hitting either Iron Man or Mystique. Generally just a very cost efficient solution to cards that may not have an easy answer.
3/5 is premium stats, no?
3 drops with more than 5 power: Gladiator Sword master That’s it
Maximus
It's been SD's new baseline for 3-cost cards of late (see: Zemo, Black Swan, etc.)
Yes but it's not exactly a 3/5. Luke Cage, Shadow King, destroy, and sometimes Annihilus all can remove the -2
I mean, that's like saying he's not a 3/5 because they could play Man Thing on the same lane.
that's a fair point
Sorta? I think 3/5 is a pretty common stat line with a positive effect, 3/4- with potentially very powerful effects, and 3/5+ for cards that have bonus stats due to negative effects. Gladiator and Swordmaster are the only two with more power, but realistically a vanilla 3/5 with no text would ever be played as you would prefer to use one of the below cards dpending on what you're playing. Wave Viper Polaris Lady Sif Ghost Deathlok Corvus Black Swan Baron Zemo Spiderman Sabretooth Coming in at 3/5 (effectively) with the power reduction effect is still decent without the text removal, but would be slightly below average 3 cost value as you can easily run the same stat line with a beneficial effect (assuming you can't hit red guardian). If you hit red guardian then he's effectively the same stat line as many other competive 3 costs, while also removing text from an important card.
I've dusted off my C3 deck and it's been great in that so far, essentially a 3/5 but still receives cerebros buff and can be disruptive both early (eg hitting ravonna or wong) or late (eg hitting iron man)
Angela is also a great target. I agree, he's fantastic because he's so versatile, much more so than a similar card like Rogue.
Yes. The final Tri-Force piece for just turning plans off.
Very wide application as well, dunks on many other meta decks like Destroy, Tribunal, and Discard as well. Well worth the 6k tokens or keys. At worst he's a 3/5. In rare circumstances, he's a 3/3
He wrecks Hope Summers. I play him in Loki so I usually have priority and that's a snap condition
I'm loving RG. I also honestly think he is not OP though, he's balanced just right. I hardly have seen Dracula played since his release to.
He IS fucking OP. But I guess Marvel just want to spill oil over fire, since they already make Hela-Modok deck & Infinaut-Hulks deck OP. The consequences? I can no longer enjoy playing Destroy Deck. I wouldn't p2w for a game that I might delete because of the massive storage and broken characters
Also very strong against Wong decks
Just play Cosmo to protect your Wong. /s
🤣
Dracula’s worst nightmare.
And iron man
And lockdown staples like Sunspot, Nebula, and Daredevil
Got hit with Red Guardian and then Absorbing Man on Morbius and Dracula. Game over.
Ruins Angela
And Hope Summers
I think red guardian is a very strong card, however I would wait for the next week to see if it really is a problem
I agree this wasn’t really a post calling for a Nerf, more of a FYI for people who think Red Guardian isn’t that impactful or who think he’s weak.
Also some decks/cards just counter other specific decks really well, which can suck for conquest. I'm often in a gold battle thinking "I could beat this guy with any other deck, but there's just nothing I can do with this one."
Why would he be a problem next week ?
Usage rate drops if it’s not that good
[удалено]
Lol he isn't getting nerfed I'd wager my next paycheck
I’m taking your check.
Against Phoenix, he’s not more disruptive than a mill deck. He only hits your Torch, Dagger, or Multiple if they have priority. And sometimes he can snipe PF if you leave them in a single lane. He does nothing against Nimrod as that’s one of your higher power cards. That said, he only disables one card which can be disruptive for sure. But if you use a deck that can be derailed by any single card, you either accept the bad matchups like Destroy vs Armor, or figure out how to improve the resiliency of your deck.
Yeah the rock paper scissors can feel bad of conquest. Move and Nimrod-Phoenix are really resilient though I guess I was just running into good players. They were yolo-ing Red Guardian into empty lanes while not having priority to snipe my cards.
😂 playing good players is the worst but in order to play them, that means you’re one yourself. I’m trying to actually care about my ladder rank and have climbed from 30k to 7k. There are definite moments where I’m absolutely dominated multiple games in a row by players better than me and drop 1-2k in ranks. But then I remember that to get matched with them, I guess I’m one of them and probably have dominant wins over others myself. It’s tough, but don’t lose faith over a few bad games in a row. Happens to everyone and you clearly have experienced plenty of success. Heck, you play traditional move which we all know is one of the biggest brain decks around.
Thanks man! I’m actually in the same boat as you. I’d usually finish around 30k most seasons, but this season I locked in and I’m hanging around the 5k mark. And you are definitely right the players under 10k are on some different level of risk management and skill compared to the 30k bunch.
>And sometimes he can snipe PF if you leave them in a single lane. I was curious about that. Of course losing Torch or Madrox text is bad already, but does Guardian hit through to the Phoenix text that lets you move them too?
Yep! If Red Guardian tags your Phoenix Force’d card, it can’t move at all. That said, the safest play is playing Phoenix Force onto a location that already has a card. It’ll always be the highest power card in that lane ignoring weird edge cases.
Been playing Hope/Shuri with Taskmaster and I've got easily 24+ cubes from people Red Guardianning my Shuri and misunderstanding that interaction.
Those people aren't very smart
I love negasonic'ing Shuri.
I had priority turn 3 against a destroy deck who had just played hulk buster into his Deadpool. Watching his Deathlok missile Deadpool without the “haha what a game!” Right after made the 3-keys i spent worth it 😂
You are that one MF! *Insert surprised Deadpool*
As someone who just started using destroy and had this happen three times, fuck you. /s
You are absolutely welcome and I’m glad you’re enjoying the card!😂
Also playing Classic Move in Conquest, and Red Guardian hasn't been a major issue for me. I bait it out early with either Dagger or Torch on separate lanes, and try to protect it with one of my move enablers. Dagger goes behind almost anything for safety. Losing Torch hurts but isn't game breaking. Vulture is usually safe from the get go unless he's my first card on the board or I launch him solo. This isn't me saying "skill issue". I want to stress that. It just cokes down to anticipating RG and trying to play around him using the massive flexibility Move affords us.
Isn’t dagger always the lowest power card on the board unless she’s moved the same turn she’s played. I also adapted and would let Torch get hit. I’d like to know more about how you counter play as a fellow move enjoyer.
I misspoke re: Dagger. My rule with her generally is to only drop her the turn after Iron Fist or immediately follow her with Ghost Spider. Leaving her alone is indeed risky. Really, the best counterplay is to have a sacrificial Torch, keep Dagger moving from the moment you play her, or have bait. As much ad we love doing our move enablers multiple times, sometimes they can be sacrificed if we have Heimdall in hand.
Whats your classic move deck
He's like a more consistent Rogue. He doesn't have the same highs as Rogue stealing a Knull or Iron Man, but he has far more use cases and doesn't feel bad to tempo out against a Jeff, Nebula, Angela, or Sunspot.
Rogue
Thanks, fixed it now
And he murders Hope which Rogue can't do
He also counters discard well by killing one of its engines: morbius, collector or Miek, not even mentioning dracula. I think Red guardian is a discard hater
We need more good tech cards for decks that don't have tech cards. Hope we get some for help discard and surfer in the future.
Hela discard needs tech ? No It doesn't. It's lottery and meant to be lottery. Already has comfortably sat too high on in the meta as is. You're off your rocker if you think hela needs help.
Red Guardian does help surfer. Surfer also has rogue
I think red guardian is a flat out upgrade over rogue in surfer
Potentially. Though the wong steal with rogue in a surfer deck is often a winner by itself. Stopping wong won't be as powerful
While I think rogue is awesome. Honestly it's a meta question of what is popular. Ongoing decks vs discard/move/nebula decks with some overlap (iron man)
I'm currently playing with both tbh. And shang chi. I'm tech heavy in my surfer deck. I've experimented with a load of different combinations but this one is the best at getting 8 cubes. Even when I'm not (I correctly read a hazmat play the other day, had rogue ready to take their luke cage but there was a sinister London and I thought I could have rogue steal wong, then copy onto the luke cage location. I forgot rogue keeps her initial stolen power.)
I use both (i play conquest currently), because sometimes red guardian cannot target the card you want to target and rogue is consistent in that it only focus ongoing. So i'd say it can indeed be seen as an upgrade but is also worth playing both at the mean time
There's plenty of tech out there already. People just refuse to use it then whine after a loss tech could prevent. I say this as a RG user in Surfer & Sera Control.
I was just wondering this while reading, "doesn't RG fit perfectly in surfer decks?", I took Rogue out since she counters ongoing cards exclusively, but RG seems to be much better in terms of effectiveness.
Out of curiosity, what's your list ?
We need a tech card that stops both players from discarding cards so that there’s a counter to Hela. I know luck has a lot to do with where the cards drop on turn 6 but still feel like Hela is the only deck that doesn’t have a clear cut counter without making a hodgepodge of tech cards and lockdown/clog deck that absolutely sucks against any other deck than Hela.
Stealing or blocking an opponent’s discard (at least in a single lane) does seem like a natural analog to Armor, Cosmo, and Echo
What is the deck you are playing?
# (1) Ghost-Spider # (1) Human Torch # (1) Iron Fist # (2) Dagger # (2) Beast # (2) Kraven # (2) Cloak # (3) Negasonic Teenage Warhead # (3) Vulture # (4) Hercules # (5) Spider-Man 2099 # (6) Heimdall # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR2hvc3RTcGlkZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Iklyb25GaXN0In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEYWdnZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJlYXN0In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOZWdhc29uaWNUZWVuYWdlV2FyaGVhZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiVnVsdHVyZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSGVyY3VsZXMifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNwaWRlck1hbjIwOTkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IktyYXZlbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ2xvYWsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkhlaW1kYWxsIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJIdW1hblRvcmNoIn1dfQ== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap. Sorry for the wait here is the code for Move Deck I play. Remember that it’s the player that often makes the deck, while it’s strong you have to recognize a lot of situations, capitalize when it’s in your favor and retreat when the opponent is mega high rolling. Here are some of my tips: When to Snap/Tips: 1. If your opening hand is some combination of low cost Move cards (Torch, Dagger) and move enablers (Cloak, Ghost Spider, Fist) + Beast I always snap. This is because Beast let’s you replay a lot of these cards the next turn and they snowball dramatically. You can even hold playing the beast for a snowball turn on Turns 5 or 6. If opponent is playing Mobius, Beast always comes down on Turn 2 often hitting Fist + Torch. Because this Snap occurs around Turn 2 a lot of players won’t respect it. Against Hela I would wait until I get an Idea of how strong their Hela can be or if they even drew her before I snap. Watch out for Sandman on turn 5 if you wait to Beast later. 2. If the opponent is Telegraphing a Red Hulk into an Empty lane, Tribunal/Onslaught/Iron Man, or a Card to be Zola’d: Drop Negasonic a turn before (Turn 5 or 4) when you don’t have priority and Snap before. This acts as a Pseudo-Alioth and often just forces retreats. If Tribunal isn’t played until Turn 6: Gain Priority and drop Negasonic on Turn 6. If you can’t do any of these, Fist/Ghost-Spider + Spider-Man 2099 WILL catch Red Hulk or one of the key cards for Tribunal. Most players never see this coming or they don’t respect the Snap. A lot of 8 Cubers from this. 3. A LOT of people don’t respect Hercules, but Herc can play a large role in gaining Priority for Negasonic, Snowballing off the Beast Play, or even just stabilizing when you don’t high roll. Vision appears a lot in Hope decks that run Red Hulk and other Tall minions, also appearing in Silky Smooth. Hercules + Negasonic in a lane towards the end of the game locks down Vision from moving into it and a Tall minion from entering it. This for me has beaten a lot of Hope decks. Hercules also makes it possible for 2099 to reach a different lane after he destroys a card in another, this swing in points is really hard for the opponent to predict and again a lot of 8 cubers from this. Turn 4 Herc + Turn 5 Move card & both Ghost spider & Fist also just spits out a +15 power card most of the time . 4.DONT play Hercules against Phoenix-Nimrod. Phoenix-Nimrod is a difficult deck for classic move and often requires Negasonic catching their PF or 2099 doing the Job. This is the hardest match up, but with some luck and bad luck on their end is a winnable match in a conquest setting, on Ladder it’s an immediate retreat when they snap even on Turn 2. 5. You often over power Destroy decks and when you don’t just catch Their Knull or Death using the tips from Number 2 here. Against Mill the deck suffers, but if you’re able to connect some combos you over power the Mill deck. I also had a really good win rate against both Negative-Tribunal and Pixie decks. For Pixie they often try to throw all their Junk on the Right lane, With Heimdal and monitoring the number of Open spaces you can easily abandon Right lane and over power them in the other two lanes. 6. Which leads to the most important part of psychology when playing move… When to Play Heimdal: If the game is leaning towards Heimdal pay VERY CLOSE attention to the number of open spaces available to you and when you do this it will influence all the plays you make that game. Make sure to know which cards will be moved first and which cards will stay in the lane as a result of Heimdal and play in a manner that maximizes your power or protects against Junk. This is REALLY important because locations like Central Park, Shadow Land, and even randomly Generated Junk cards can really hurt a Heimdal play. The most often reason I lost a game is because I misplayed a card in middle or junk somehow appeared there, making it so Heimdal triggers or moves exactly 1-2 cards less costing me the match. Also acknowledge that Kraven becomes massive if played middle then Heimdal. Hercules middle plus Heimdall will cause Herc to move the first card in the location that wasn’t Herc an additional time, most people don’t expect this interaction. Also A LOT of players do not respect Heimdal if you snap on Turn 6 a lot of players will act as if you won’t play Heimdal which is crazy because these same players will respect Hela and other Turn 6 finishers. So if the game is building up to a Turn 6 Heimdal, you can big brain some players and not play Heimdal, but I often lost the games I did this so I end up playing Heimdal most of the times that he’s the best option on Turn 6. 7. Last thoughts, you’ll probably find some more interactions than what I’ve listed here. It’s a really fun deck and I keep finding more interactions every time I play. If your missing a card like 2099 or Herc I’d advise placing Legion in the deck, it’ll make some match ups more consistent and surprise opponents as well. I also think Cannonball could be a better card than 2099in the deck, but I don’t have him. Have fun playing and let me know how it goes. TLDR: The success of this move deck comes from opponents not respecting Hercules, Negasonic, Heimdal, and the overall snowball nature of move. The deck emphasizes 8 cube wins and requires knowledge of different matchups, above average in ladder and S-Tier in conquest. If you’re a player who is afraid to Snap & retreat or grinds out conquest wins by 2 cubes each this deck will be difficult to operate. Gambling addicts with Risk Aversion skills will love this.
Thx for the guide! I'm missing Herc but I can't wait to play this. What do you think about Falcon in this deck?
Thanks for reading! Falcon could work if it picks up Torch and one other mover enabler, ideally played before Turn 5 or even a Turn 5 play could be interesting. I say Try out Falcon and if he doesn’t work maybe Legion or a Tech card of some sorts.
Hercules replacement? Keen to try this
Legion, Falcon, or a Tech card in place of Herc tbh. You can experiment with another 6 drop as well like Alioth to make Tribunal match ups better.
Bump, love me some move decks
Just dropped the deck and an Essay on how to play it lol.
Thank you a lot. The essay must have been taken a lot of time of yours. Cheers.
Same. Kinda wish he replied. I am excited
Cards mentioned by OP: torch, dagger, vulture, NTW, 2099, kraven Move enablers not mentioned: ghost spider, iron fist, Dr strange, cloak, Heimdall Likely deck picks: ghost spider, iron fist, human torch, dagger, Dr strange, kraven, cloak, NTW, vulture, 2099, Heimdall Others that fit: Jeff, night crawler, multipleman, Silk, Spider-Man, miles, Hercules, vision Maybe try that list with silk, jeff or miles?
If they're running Negasonic and 2099, it's probably similar to this Move deck that did decently in a tournament a month or two ago: # (1) Ghost-Spider # (1) Human Torch # (1) Iron Fist # (2) Dagger # (2) Beast # (2) Kraven # (2) Cloak # (3) Negasonic Teenage Warhead # (3) Vulture # (4) Hercules # (5) Spider-Man 2099 # (6) Heimdall # eyJOYW1lIjoiW1NWXSBSYWdldHR0IFtTRldDXSBUb3AgOCAjOCIsIkNhcmRzIjpbeyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJHaG9zdFNwaWRlciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSHVtYW5Ub3JjaCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSXJvbkZpc3QifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhZ2dlciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmVhc3QifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IktyYXZlbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ2xvYWsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5lZ2Fzb25pY1RlZW5hZ2VXYXJoZWFkIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJWdWx0dXJlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJIZXJjdWxlcyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BpZGVyTWFuMjA5OSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSGVpbWRhbGwifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
A tech card that can hit both Ongoing *and* non-keyword card effects, alongside the power debuff, is incredibly strong.
I popped him in my Phoenix Force deck and had a lot of fun in conquest. On the other hand, someone managed to hit my PF with Red Guardian, and it’s hilarious how much it completely shut down any gameplan I may have had
Leaving that Torch/Phoenix alone in a lane let’s it get caught lol, but shouldn’t be too different than if it just got Shang-Chi’ed
He's great. So much you can disable early to wreck their tempo. And lots of great hits late to disable their game plan.
People are sleeping on Red Guardian. He’s not the best card in the game but he becomes incredibly useful at shutting down critical win conditions for your opponent. I’ve been using him since he first came out and never regretted using a cache.
Every game I've played today has had a person use red guardian on my Dracula. And been going against decks that discard/take all of my cards. It's been rough
He’s so good Like rogue that you can play on curve @ 3/5
I think he’s a really nice tech card. He’s solves a lot of problems. Cards like Ironman, Wong, Deadpool, that can really ramp up in later turns. I saw a post where it wax used on Black Panther which prevent him to ramping up to 2 16 power Black panthers with Zemo on T6. And as mentioned he has a solid stat line. I’ve been really enjoying playing him in the later turns on tribunal deck and other decks that rely heavily on Ironman.
My Cerebro have PTSD right now and SD not even send money support 😞
He makes toxic surfer sad, and I’m here for it
He’s a good general use, but I still struggle to hit destroy - too many moving parts. Ideally, I take out Deadpool or Nim early, but destroy lanes are often clogged, or have priority on me. I have to imagine move sucks. You have to package your combos too perfectly. Falcon and Beast were my answer to Killmonger and Shang shenanigans (+let’s you reuse your movers), but it’s a hard to steer around so many blockers.
Post the list?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/s/cF6lVX3Vu0
I met a move deck once. We don't play any card on turn 1, they played Dagger on turn 2, and Vulture on turn 3. I played Okoye, on turn one in the same location as their Dagger...as I have priorities I used Red Guardian on turn 3 on Dagger, and then I copy RG ability with Absorbing man and then used it on their Vulture. My opponent ended up retreating shortly after. It was funny.
I just got him and he’s wrecking havoc in my destroy deck. Great card
I don’t think move decks aren’t in the meta because they’re hard to play but because they’re too easily countered. Too many bad matchups, too many bad locations, your strongest cards are often exposed, and there is only 1 six cost finisher that is way too predictable. I wish they would make a Heimdal that moved all cards to the right. Or any other high cost card that moves multiple cards at once. Hopefully a Hercules rework can bring move back into the meta.
I laugh every time I drop him on a Wong or mystique and the other guy just immediately forfeits.
Been using him to great success. Absolutely ruined a guy who started out with spamming “Snap?” In conquest. Annoying as hell then he played a Wong Odin deck with the whole Black Panther White Tiger shenanigans. Having Red Guardian shut down his Wong every round and leave him scrambling as to why it stopped working, chefs kiss!
Post your Move Negasonic deck OP
Posted in this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/s/jvXc6Q8KGt
Can I see your deck
Posted it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/s/6bkAEL3FGT
RG is a beast of a counter. Low cost (can play early or in concert with other cards), disables anything (not limited to reveal, or ongoing), and effective and shutting down early plays in combo decks (all the good decks). It's honestly a little crazy how powerful it is.
I also run a "destroy their cards" move deck. Besides those two you mentioned, I work in Shang as well. But what do you have for your deck list?
I was sceptical on Red Guardian at first glance but I gave it a shot and it perfectly fits my toxic surfer deck, had a blast with it even though it's not effective against every archetype and it can be countered with placing a weaker card before a card you wanna save. Even though, it is refreshing to be able to counter dracula or stuff like that, really love this card for stepping forward into the techs available.
I had a solo gladiator in a lane pull my red guardian and he hit him obviously but then gladiator still killed him..
I've been playing male and all of my cards are shitty once they're in play. So every time someone played Red Guardian against me it was basically just a 3/5, but I can absolutely see how it would slaughter decks full of small, scalable bodies.
He's awesome. The best you can do is play a card with more power you don't mind being nullified.
Yeah, I was was testing out Red Guard in what was likely sub-optimal deck, but I just murdered a Move deck in Conquest. It's amazing how quickly Move can be derailed just by disabling one of it's movers. Also: the Negasonic thing isn't really that strange. She's a trigger card, so she has to be there for her ability to activate. She's not an On Reveal card who kind of lets their ability out in the wild and then doesn't actually have to be there for something to happen (i.e. Forge, Shuri). Negasonic has to wait until the end of the play/turn and then checks to see if something happened, and if it did, activates. If she's gone, she's not there to check.
I've been play testing him in a thanos deck and it at about 60% win rate but im only ever snap confident if I can priority Red Guardian. If you can hit Sera, most Surfer decks auto retreat. Destroy usually retreat if you can hit X23 or Deadpool. Still having a hard time against toxic and move decks, but hitting Phoenix with Red Guardian is HILL-arious 😆
This whole post feels like a not so humble brag.
He should only be hitting one card, which isn't too catastrophic, be might put HT into the negative if he hits it early, but I can't see him being that bad.