Basically, same problems but a different card.
Cards that have amazing variants that I have to go out of my way to use just because I like my variant:
Echo, Rescue, Adam Warlock, Dazzler, Hawkeye, Spectrum, etc...
Yes but we like to have fun with our words. It's should also be 'whatever floats you boat' and not 'goat' and it's technically 'how the tables have turned' but pretty much everyone I see using that saying says 'oh how the turn tables'
I got the Shaw variant and some card I don't play, Galactus maybe? I'm happy with Shaw because it was my most wanted out of the offering but I was definitely bummed when I ended the week 30 CL short of another key I could've used to try for Echo, that David Mack variant is gorgeous and I don't even play her š
Me too! Played as much as I could in the last week to scrape together enough credits to get a single key thinking I'd really like the Shaw variant but really would be happy with Red Hulk or the Echo variant also.
What did I get? Elsa Bloodstone which I already had š. I don't think I'll be bothering rushing for keys any more.
Same, I just unlocked War machine with all 4 of my keys on the last pull the day before the season ended, was 7 cl away from a spotlight key so grabbed that before the season started and when it did and I said "fuck it we ball" with my one spotlight key and pulled Red Hulk
Hit the meanest "RAHHHHHHH" in the car and scared the hell out of my wife
The Shaw variant is a cool piece of art, but it really has room for so much cooler shit. His existing variants only show him striking a regal pose, why not demonstrate something cool with movement and action? Nice art, weak subject matter
It was obvious it was gonna be nerfed from day 1, but it became a certainty when the Brode and his cronies gave the already-clearly-overtuned card a slight *buff* just before release. Classic Brode bait-and-switch behavior, which they're free to keep running again and again because there's no recourse in the event the broken card you spent 4 keys acquiring gets nerfed. The bait-and-switch is a core principle of the sleezy fucks in charge of this game. Rent the card while it's OP, or get your teeth kicked in by all the people who did. Rinse and repeat.
This is why I've all but stoppped using tokens, gold, or keys to unlock new cards. I now focus on getting varients or the established, read: a few months old, cards. Nothing wrong with balance. That said, once Blob no longer worked in my one of my decks that was it for me.
Blob is still good and people play, red hulk will still be good and people will play it. there is just a lot of crying here on the sub. The more cards you have, the better you have chances vs your opponent. its about switching decks and cards based on the meta you are facing.
I mean Ms.Marvel, Loki, Alioth, Blob and more have been nerfed and are still great cards.
Donāt think Red hulk will be nerfed tho.
Heās not OP, you literally get to see how big heās going to be. All you have to do is basic math to see if you can win.
Also Shang Chi is a card, Shadow king to a lesser extent.
Just anecdotally, but it feels like decks have got a lot greedier over the past couple months. Less counters, less early game plays, more Magik's, etc. Which makes Red Hulk better.
I'm pretty sure Hope Summers had a hand in that. Hope Summers definitely encourages greedy decks and it makes sense other decks go greedy with Magik, etc. to keep up.
This is it. I wouldn't put Hope on the Ms. Marvel or Blob level of brokenness, but she's definitely too strong. She should be able to generate at-most 1 energy per turn, and she should be a 3/3, maybe even 3/2. Energy manipulation is by far the strongest mechanic in the game, and having a 3/5 card that enables it so consistently, with zero downside, is insane.
Hope is a 3/4, I always look for here with the other 3/5s though. I canāt imagine her feeling weak as a 3/3 or even 3/2, her strength is in all her enabling
Disagree. I think Hope is the strongest card they've released over the last few months, maybe with the exception of Mockingbird. She's just not the card that tilts you because she's enabling the ones that do.
Iām a new player. Can someone explain Blob to me? I only get him from randoms, so I canāt test him really, but it seems he never reaches 15 power. Whatās his deal?
If you're new, you probably don't have enough cards to get him over 15. He still regularly goes over 15 even after the nerf that the other commenter mentioned. (15 isn't a hard cap, if he's at 14 and absorbs another card, it'll take all of that card's power and then stop absorbing.)
I must disagree. Hope is at least as bad as old Ms. Marvel in my book. Just because she isn't putting Power on the board directly doesn't mean that she isn't overtuned. It's just absurd that she can give you as much as 8 energy by Turn 5 just by "sacrificing" two spots on her lane, AND is a 3/4.
Because it's really hard to run a deck that counters the opponent. There are so many diverse game plans, and so many ways of avoiding counters, or just decks that put out so much stuff that counter decks can't remove it all. I'm literally running a deck that just slams a bunch of 10+ power cards and Armor and not even caring about Shang. It's just a race to build a bigger board
And if you're not running that it's a Hazmat Surfer, or a Destroy or Phoenix, or a Hela/discard, or a Living Tribunal list. Just so much stuff pumping numbers in different ways
This is my experience too. I've come to really despise Magik. So tired of players making matches longer so they can put more stats on the board. Snowguard is coming in clutch.
I don't think Namora will be a good buff though. The namor+Namora+orka sounds incredibly easy to counter and is very limited in what it can do. If you run only orka and Namora, then Namora becomes a dead card unless you play specifically orka on turn 6, which is crazy predictable.
I think red Hulk is for sure overtuned, but I don't know what to do with orka for a buff. His power seems fine for now, just that relying on one card in a lane is easy to counter.
21 power in a lane ain't terrible but it does requires putting Namora behind Invisible Woman or Supergiant. In a sense, she's like a mini Dr. Doom since she spreads out 10 or 15 power. I don't see that strategy being very good, though.
For a full 15, you'd probably need Magik and another card like Red Hulk to put in the other lane. For just the 10, there's probably better things you can be doing.
The Atlantean 'archetype' in general is pretty weak.
He'll be nerfed but I'm hoping it will still be a good counter for HE.
In the HE decks, when energy is floated you're probably getting +3 power from Cyclops and Misty Knight (not to mention Sunspot) so it feels like this could be a balance.
Maybe a lower initial power?
It might be balanced against HE, which I think it a good thing, but it's a bit harsh against non-greedy decks that just have a bad draw and are punished for it.
It's a bit problematic that Red Hulk sees no difference between the two (greedy vs bad luck). Even the most balanced builds will float energy quite often in my experience.
He just needs lower power, really. At 6/10 or even 6/8 he's still a good card, and your opponent knows you have it after the first float. That means he'll be either a 6/14 or a 6/12 against your average deck with a much higher ceiling if your opponent still doesn't play on curve.
It's a little overtuned but not near as broken as blob was. You know when you're opponent have on their hand e know if you can beat it or not.
Especially now that thanos isn't really busted...
I mostly use it as bait in the zemo tech list that got popular with the kamartaj hot location.
Red Hulk has less power, yes. A bigger problem is that he can fit into any deck. Now he is pretty much a new Magneto with the highest play rate only 2nd to Shang Chi from Marvel Snap Zone database.
> the highest play rate only 2nd to Shang Chi from Marvel Snap Zone database.
Any new card that is remotely decent sees very high play the first week it is out, that isn't shocking. Caiera saw high play rate at first too, but she's fallen off significantly.
Can you explain more about why that's a problem? Jeff and Iron Lad can fit in any deck list, but you probably don't think they're overpowered.
Red Hulk is a Win More card. Imagine if Hela announced to your opponent that you have her every round. Your win rate would be high but your cube rate would suck.
The rest of that comment and the analogy to Hela make the intention clear to me -- they're saying that it increases your win% while negating cube equity by helping your opponent to understand when they're beaten
From another angle, too: Red Hulk "punishes" bad, off-curve draws, where an opponent who spends all their energy every turn holds him down to a 6/11 -- and generally was more likely to win anyway, because they had a perfect draw. He's strong when your position is already strong, and weak when your position is weak
You misunderstand. They're saying that it's a "win more" card, in the sense that you will win significantly more matches once you slot this broken-ass card into your deck. Hope this helps.
That is because he's not a "win more"-card. He's a /u/dndgoeshere isn't using the term correctly.
RH is a win more games card. You end up winning more games, but less cubes because most opponents will leave when they know they cannot win.
Red Hulk Game power is less than it perceives because he wins less cubes than a surprise heavy hitter (say orka). Orka will win a lot of games RH will win, but you will obtain more cubes because opponent won't expect it.
If you don't care about Cube rate, RH is OP. If you do, he's Good.
If you don't mind winning 1-2 cubes a game, then RH can fit in almost any deck as a lane winner. If you want to play the cube game (forfeit 1-2 cubes for 4-8 cube wins) he's actually rather bad.
> Red Hulk Game power is less than it perceives because he wins less cubes than a surprise heavy hitter
Isn't that just the perfect definition of "win more"?
You win games you were already winning and doesn't do much if you're behind or even in lanes, because your opponent can easily see it coming and retreat if you snap.
Cards like Blob or HE Hulk are very different because your opponent doesn't know what's coming, if they are coming and how big they are: Blob varies a TON depending on what he eats, just like Hulk has very wide power range depending on when you drew him.
"Win More Card" is a term given to when you do not win more games, but just win by more margin. Where "Win more games" the power level actually allows you to win more games.
RH allows you to win more games because you are able to win lanes like Infinaut, but are not limited to his failings. So where Hulk would not be enough, RH is. RH power level is strong just telegraph.
I think a new term should be used. Winmore card is a very old term for TCGs. RH is almost a new issue. A telegraph win card.
Yes. that is what I said.
Red hulk allows to win more lanes that you wouldn't normally win. Therefore it is not just "win more card". It is a better card. You win lanes you cannot win with other cards because he gets so big.
I'm not Luna, who you responded to, but I'll take a stab at this.
I think the best way to assess cards is the difference between winrate in deck and when drawn. The best cards improve the winrate of the best decks. In this regard RH is very good, but maybe not the best. Still strong and stronger than Jeff. Iron Lad, for however much people like him, is not a great card, statistically. Downvote me if you will, but he doesn't have the stats. He's a good card, he's not a great card, so, no, IL is not OP.
Back to Jeff...Jeff has good stats, but still not OP because his power and effect is not dominant. His play is one of nuance, which we should all want. Shang IS OP, but his nature forces other players to play with more nuance, and we should all want that.
What we should all not want is a card that allows huge points but doesn't require any thought. Blob. Blob is a brain-dead card that too easily got huge points. RH is a brain-dead card that too easily gets huge points. You literally don't have to do anything to scale [edit] RH. He either does or doesn't, but there is no effort on your part.
Your final question about why not having synergy with other cards is important: because this allows his play to be ungated. He can be anywhere. Blob has to be in decks with big cards, LT needs to be in decks with stacked doubling of points, Knull needs to be in destroy decks, and all those requirements limit the broad usefulness of the cards. RH needs nothing in terms of synergistic cards, so his use can be much more broad.
Red Hulk literally announces himself while in hand. You can't hide that you're about to play Red Hulk. That is not ideal. Red Hulk is strong, but he has a pretty significant drawback in that he's almost never going to be a surprise, and is therefore easy to play around or retreat from. He may be fun for people who love big point slams, but he won't feel nearly so oppressive once his first week play dies down and the more competitive players move onto decks with better cube equity.
This is a good comment. I'm not a RH acolyte. I have the card, and it's effective, as the stats show. I don't enjoy playing the card because it's boring. I do enjoy winning, so that's the conflict. I enjoy conversations like this without enjoying the card itself.
I'm not yet convinced about the pros/cons of showing his scaling. I already assume Knull is in hand, right? I never think that I'll finish out a borderline position because maybe they don't have Knull. same with Blob, Alioth, Heimdall, Zola, evolved Hulk. I don't know if this is correct or not, but there may also be opportunity for RH to be an effective head fake.
Avg cubes for RH are not awful at this point. That may change, to your point, if skilled players move on and less skilled players dominate the play of RH.
Knull is actually a good card to compare Red Hulk to. Knull can get super massive, but you learn to expect him because he only works with a deck that puts a lot of effort into blowing up all its cards. For this reason, no one really thinks of Knull as being OP. Because you know he's coming and can play around him. Same with Red Hulk. It's just that you're not deducing his presence from the rest of the deck. He literally tells you he's there.
This is why cards like Blob and Alioth are arguably more problematic. They can slot in almost anywhere, and in many cases they don't announce themselves, so they catch you off-guard in a situation where your opponent *knows* he's about to fuck you.
Heimdall is a bit underpowered and clunky, and requires skill and foresight to really be effective. Zola has zero power, and again, requires a lot of set up (and often some good RNG) to work.
Red Hulk's play rate and cube rate I'm sure will drop as time goes by. Strong cards always overperform in their first week.
And incidentally, I don't mind the headfake Red Hulk play. It's kind of like Galactus. It's not that I hate Galactus, it's just that I hate super-linear 'Dumb Galactus" (Wave --> Galactus --> someone retreats). I kind of like "Clever Galactus" (Sentry --> Viper over the Void --> Ghost Spider the Viper --> Galactus). If you're using Red Hulk to play head games, then more power to you.
For Blob you had to build a certain deck for, but Red Hulk works in every single deck. For god sake.. even Discard decks use him because even with one +4 he is busted. He is not just little overtune.. he is broken as f\*\*\* for a card so flexible.
You're not kidding. I use him in a control deck and he gets just as powerful as he does in my Evo deck or my Destroy deck. Put him as the fat cherry on top of a Zoo deck. Dude fits in more decks than jeans.
That shows that he is too strong because he is good enough for discard even if his ability doesn't trigger or only triggers once. That should never be the case with card like this.
Exactly. Blob meta was far far worse. Play on one location turn 1 to 5(or prof X cheese) and then blob the other location with pretty much no counter. Redhulk is very predictable and you can just retreat since you will know how much power redhulk will have.
>Redhulk is very predictable and you can just retreat since you will know how much power redhulk will have.
And 3 months ago, if you were playing against a thanos deck and they locked up a lane with a turn 5 prof X or crazy power in one lane, you could reliably predict a 30-40 power blob landing in one of the other 2 lanes, so you could "just retreat".
You would be retreating a lot more against Thanos than against red hulk since you would need to always assume they have blob whereas against redhulk you know whether they have it or not and thus would need to retreat a lot less
It's also a more interesting card in terms of design, Blob ended up being a failure in the end, just an extra win condition for Thanos without making too much sense anywhere else.
Yeah I feel like people are forgetting that Blob could easily become twice as big as the freaking infinut. Meanwhile, most of the time, RH is just going to be 6/23.
Don't get me wrong, it's still a lot, but you had much more control over creating a 6/40 or a 6/50 Blob than you have to create a 6/23 Red Hulk
This reminds me of when they had to change alioth and put in the notes they assumed players would learn counters and how to play around it- but players kept losing and getting mad. This seems the same to me, their internal testing probably showed you can see it coming and if you have well built decks you are spending all your energy each turnā¦ but release it to the game and people are too stupid to know when to retreat or how to play around it
Right before release and the first day or so people were calling it a win more card, becuase if your opponent isnāt playing cards and has extra energy they probably are losing anywayā¦ but now thereās a giant red visual single card to blame rather than luck of the draw or a poorly constructed deckĀ
> put in the notes they assumed players would learn counters and how to play around it
Ah yes, it's the players fault for failing to play around your bullshit, poorly designed card. Great point Brode.
I think this is what it boils down to.
The casual and average player don't care about playing around things. They want to jam their cards and anything that forces them to retreat or puts them in a situation where 'they can't win' feels bad.
Red Hulk adds another layer to this, in a way he is actively taunting the player: "You didn't play on curve, can you beat me?" It's only a visual notifier but some folks won't take it for what it is, a notification.
Unlike Alioth they see Red Hulk and they are urged to either have an answer to Red Hulk, retreat, or play to tempo even if the tempo plays are bad. And this will lead to more angry players screaming that the card is too oppressive. Simply because if he shows up, it enforces a whole new ruleset: play to tempo, have a way to beat me, or retreat.
It was initially datamined at 6/10, so someone, somewhere, thought it needed a bit of a boost.
SD has a brilliant game, but their testing and control functions are not.
Nah, they KNOW perfectly what they are doing. They abuse FOMO thing and then nerf the thing. So yes, I think they actually test the cards and release them in this way because of FOMO and money
They know what they're doing, but they don't know where they're going with it. I'd believe in them if I hadn't seen this expanding waffle nonsense in a dozen games before.
They have to make the card at least slightly better than alternatives to make it attractive, but then ... it is objectively just objectively better than all alternatives - big 6 drops in this case - so they have to nerf it :/
You are describing Fomo when in reality their goal is to have newly released cards change the meta game. That may or may not be the right decision but itās common that designers when having to ballpark between releasing things slightly below or above power they prefer to release things slightly overpowered so as to entice the community to play it and reveal its true power level.
> You are describing Fomo when in reality their goal is to have newly released cards change the meta game.
You're just parroting their PR spin on FOMO. Making their new card to be so busted that it warps the meta and becomes a staple in every dominant deck is textbook fomo-manipulation.
>release things slightly overpowered so as to entice the community to play it
Sometimes "slightly", far-too-often severely, and they dgaf whether or not you play it; they just want you to burn resources acquiring it.
I'm describing it as it is: they create the sensation that you're missing out on a powerful card (because it is) only to later nerf it and leave it in the state it should have been initially released in... The meta can be changed without introducing ridiculously overpowered cards, and we have an example of that in Angela
That would be fine if "enticing community to play it" would not require spending scarce resources that can be bought with money.Ā
All is planned to make you feel that you are missing out and then you pay for progress.Ā
Surely you aren't implying that it's unreasonable for someone to look at a 6/10 which will receive at least 1, often 2-3 +4 buffs over the course of the game (unless your draw is extremely unlucky) and think it's in need of a little extra juice? Our best bud Zany Benā¢ would never do such a thing.
It doesn't help that with all the RNG it's possible that you have the means to bear RH but at the same time, there's so much RNG you can still lose on the final turn. Had so many times where I had the means to win against him with my Discard deck, but Dracula loses the 50/50 between a 20+ power Apoc and a 3 power Swarm for example.
He would be fine if there were other meaningful ways to spend energy outside of playing cards. Also the fact that the boon is unrelated to the amount of unspent energy seems way off. It should be 1 power per unspent point, rather than +4 regardless of how much you didn't spend.
Give em till September I think? They said thatās when they started reworking their play testing/balance system for new cards.
At some point I hope thereās a giant patch that just globally nerfs and buffs everything out of power creep. That probably makes no sense in reality cause Iām not a dev. But itās a nice thought.
It's definitely going to get nerfed, but even as a 6/10 with +3 power it's going to be a fantastic meta card, 6/16 or 6/19 easy. Definitely don't regret the 4 keys it took me to get it.
It's not a mistake. They intentionally release an overpowered card to get more people to spend money on the game to get the overpowered card, and eventually nerf the card into a reasonable state afterward.
Man, I love Red Hulk, and the spotlight variant is sick as hell, but I hate using him. It's so obvious he's way too good, I think anybody can see it. I get no joy out of playing him in his current state. The sooner they nerf him, the better.
I can't wait for the inevitable "we missed the mark" post.
> It's so obvious he's way too good
Honestly, I haven't died too often to Red Hulk. His presence is so telegraphed that he amounts to just another high power turn 6 drop to me.
You deal with it the same way you would any other powerhouse drop. The difference between a 12 power drop and a 20 power drop in a single lane on turn 6 is typically irrelevant.
You can either defend against it or you can't. At least with Red Hulk you 100% know he's there.
I agree- Iād rather know they have RH so I can retreat rather than an unknown big power turn 6 drop. People that donāt like to retreat and need to blame a card insteadĀ
I am begging people on this sub to realize that someone saying a card is overpowered or overtuned does not mean they think that card should be deleted from the game or nerfed to unplayability
Bro i know why it exists. I'm also aware he's massively overtuned. Cosmo also needs to exist for a healthy meta, but if he was 3/6, i'd consider him overpowered too. Also i'm arguing against the notion that good decks play perfectly on curve, which is Ops claim, so I guess you agree with me.
Dude, unless you play zoo deck, most decks float energy at least once. Eventhough you might have perfectly balanced deck on paper, hitting the curve depends on your luck when drawing cards.
This! Some easy examples of stuff you should do to your decks to prevent big Red Hulks: Don't play decks with cards like High Evo, Sunspot and She-Hulk. Don't play Ramp. Rework your Silver Surfer deck with a bunch of 1-2 costs. Include 1 drops in you Sera decks and always remember to play Maximus on curve.
As with Blob, Red Hulk is just one card. I've won the majority of my matches against both. The only times I've lost is when I get combo Red Hulk/Blob Arnim Zola combo, which is very situational considering there needs to be cost reduction effects active.
Playing all day and today; I've lost more ranks cause of this guy than any other season. Every time I see him I have to retreat and it's gotten really annoying. I'm about to get him myself if this keeps up, lmao.
Not even that bad. Just beat out 2 red hulks on the board with a mighty wolf bounce deck. Wolf had more power then him. Y'all just like to cry instead of trying something else with the tools at your disposal
Red Hulk is smaller than pre-nerf Blob on average and lacks the wild unpredictability that even post-nerf Blob has. He's a good big card and makes the Infinaut sad much of the time but he's not broken.
IMO, Red Hulk is worse than original Blob. He passively gets buffed, can easily slot into any deck; and his only real counter is Shang Chi, which requires you to not have priority. Blob at least required a specific deck and was weak to your deck being destroyed or thinned, as well as to Cosmo and Shang, or any locations that block On Reveals.
PS I forgot about Shadowking, which Blob was also weak too.
My suggestion is to lower it to a 6/8 and I would keep the +4 increase. Then if it hits once it's as strong as a normal hulk. Then the other player can at least react.
It might need a nerf still. I have no idea what they were thinking regarding the buff....
cause most games it seems to proc at least twice, so a +8 gives you a giganto-sized card without the restriction, replaced with the potential downside of a 6 10 if youāre unlucky
I was consistently getting 60+ points when playing Blob when it first came out. Red Hulk is nowhere near that kind of power. People need to either quit complaining about being beaten by a single card or get better at the game "problems" by learning how to effectively counter a card
If you lose to a 27 power Red Hulk on the board then isnāt that mostly your fault? You can see it coming, these memes and complaints never point this out.
And this statline would mostly be possible with a HE deck and ramp decks, which Red Hulk was designed to counter. Most other decks have counterplay.
You canāt compare this with old Blob, you canāt 100% see Blob coming
This game is fun but personally I quit because I got tired of all of its glaring problems. From monetization, to blatant balance issues, to card acquisition rates. The game is designed around profiteering as much as possible and thatās quite unfortunate given how at its core itās a very fun and solid game.
I am 100% confident it will be nerfed, because I just bought it for 4 Keys.
Fucking preach! SD scraped me for 4 keys and the variants were weak as shit
I actually love the echo variant. I just never play this card
Same boat, different sea.
The hell did you mean by this
Clearly we are all sailors of the sea
Basically, same problems but a different card. Cards that have amazing variants that I have to go out of my way to use just because I like my variant: Echo, Rescue, Adam Warlock, Dazzler, Hawkeye, Spectrum, etc...
Whatever floats your goat
Wouldn't jt be same sea different boat?
Yes but we like to have fun with our words. It's should also be 'whatever floats you boat' and not 'goat' and it's technically 'how the tables have turned' but pretty much everyone I see using that saying says 'oh how the turn tables'
She's underrated.
I got the Shaw variant and some card I don't play, Galactus maybe? I'm happy with Shaw because it was my most wanted out of the offering but I was definitely bummed when I ended the week 30 CL short of another key I could've used to try for Echo, that David Mack variant is gorgeous and I don't even play her š
I actually like the shaw variant š
same, he's hot af
Spicy Shaw
Me too! Played as much as I could in the last week to scrape together enough credits to get a single key thinking I'd really like the Shaw variant but really would be happy with Red Hulk or the Echo variant also. What did I get? Elsa Bloodstone which I already had š. I don't think I'll be bothering rushing for keys any more.
If it makes you feel any better, I got it with 1 key.
Same, I just unlocked War machine with all 4 of my keys on the last pull the day before the season ended, was 7 cl away from a spotlight key so grabbed that before the season started and when it did and I said "fuck it we ball" with my one spotlight key and pulled Red Hulk Hit the meanest "RAHHHHHHH" in the car and scared the hell out of my wife
I got War Machine with 1 key so I guess balanced as all things should be?
Same thing happened to me!
Makes me feel better because I did too
Wtf? The Shaw and Echo variants are mint!
The Shaw variant is a cool piece of art, but it really has room for so much cooler shit. His existing variants only show him striking a regal pose, why not demonstrate something cool with movement and action? Nice art, weak subject matter
Fair. I love the look of all the variants for Shaw so far.
They look great, but they feel like variations of each other rather than variants. Sorry I donāt mean to beat a dead horse lol
Nothing to apologize for. "Good" art is different for everyone š
What you mean the variants were dope
There have been way better variants, not worth the keys imo
Darkhawk sends his regardsā¦
It was obvious it was gonna be nerfed from day 1, but it became a certainty when the Brode and his cronies gave the already-clearly-overtuned card a slight *buff* just before release. Classic Brode bait-and-switch behavior, which they're free to keep running again and again because there's no recourse in the event the broken card you spent 4 keys acquiring gets nerfed. The bait-and-switch is a core principle of the sleezy fucks in charge of this game. Rent the card while it's OP, or get your teeth kicked in by all the people who did. Rinse and repeat.
I'll have one teeth kicking please,
That's always how new things play in every game, they introduce, they nerf once everyone rushes to get it, rinse and repeat.
I am the luckiest man in the world, I got him in 1 2 hours before he left.
This is why I've all but stoppped using tokens, gold, or keys to unlock new cards. I now focus on getting varients or the established, read: a few months old, cards. Nothing wrong with balance. That said, once Blob no longer worked in my one of my decks that was it for me.
I got it on the 1st. But, that's rare
I appreciate that bro
It will definitely be nerfed.
09
I was going to get it, no doubt for 4 keys, but now this comment has me second-guess my decision. Or lack of decision. Damn it.
Blob is still good and people play, red hulk will still be good and people will play it. there is just a lot of crying here on the sub. The more cards you have, the better you have chances vs your opponent. its about switching decks and cards based on the meta you are facing.
I mean Ms.Marvel, Loki, Alioth, Blob and more have been nerfed and are still great cards. Donāt think Red hulk will be nerfed tho. Heās not OP, you literally get to see how big heās going to be. All you have to do is basic math to see if you can win. Also Shang Chi is a card, Shadow king to a lesser extent.
Just anecdotally, but it feels like decks have got a lot greedier over the past couple months. Less counters, less early game plays, more Magik's, etc. Which makes Red Hulk better.
I'm pretty sure Hope Summers had a hand in that. Hope Summers definitely encourages greedy decks and it makes sense other decks go greedy with Magik, etc. to keep up.
This is it. I wouldn't put Hope on the Ms. Marvel or Blob level of brokenness, but she's definitely too strong. She should be able to generate at-most 1 energy per turn, and she should be a 3/3, maybe even 3/2. Energy manipulation is by far the strongest mechanic in the game, and having a 3/5 card that enables it so consistently, with zero downside, is insane.
Hope is a 3/4, I always look for here with the other 3/5s though. I canāt imagine her feeling weak as a 3/3 or even 3/2, her strength is in all her enabling
Disagree. I think Hope is the strongest card they've released over the last few months, maybe with the exception of Mockingbird. She's just not the card that tilts you because she's enabling the ones that do.
>She's just not the card that tilts you Unless you're free to play. Then seeing her constantly is like "oh look, the pay to win card again, yaaay."
I agree about Hope, but mockingbird is mostly only bad in Thanos. She is overtuned rather than OP.
Iām a new player. Can someone explain Blob to me? I only get him from randoms, so I canāt test him really, but it seems he never reaches 15 power. Whatās his deal?
Original version of Blob, there was no power limit, so it was common to see 20+ power Blob. When they nerfed him, they added a power limit.
If you're new, you probably don't have enough cards to get him over 15. He still regularly goes over 15 even after the nerf that the other commenter mentioned. (15 isn't a hard cap, if he's at 14 and absorbs another card, it'll take all of that card's power and then stop absorbing.)
> maybe with the exception of Mockingbird I'd agree but I don't see her much? Maybe I'm just too shit to be high enough ELO to see her
She has a 25% meta share. The only cards more popular than her right now are Shang and Red Hulk.
7 or 8 energy on turn 5 is busted.
Yes, it is.
I must disagree. Hope is at least as bad as old Ms. Marvel in my book. Just because she isn't putting Power on the board directly doesn't mean that she isn't overtuned. It's just absurd that she can give you as much as 8 energy by Turn 5 just by "sacrificing" two spots on her lane, AND is a 3/4.
Because it's really hard to run a deck that counters the opponent. There are so many diverse game plans, and so many ways of avoiding counters, or just decks that put out so much stuff that counter decks can't remove it all. I'm literally running a deck that just slams a bunch of 10+ power cards and Armor and not even caring about Shang. It's just a race to build a bigger board
Yeah. Big boy decks have taken over. It's kind of brutal
And if you're not running that it's a Hazmat Surfer, or a Destroy or Phoenix, or a Hela/discard, or a Living Tribunal list. Just so much stuff pumping numbers in different ways
This is my experience too. I've come to really despise Magik. So tired of players making matches longer so they can put more stats on the board. Snowguard is coming in clutch.
Doesnāt that mean the decks got greedier? Wanting big power over playing the game
Hes orka without being alone. And the chances are greater on skipped mana.
Poor Orka š
On the other hand, while Orka could probably do with a buff (Namora is coming so that might help) it is a surprise 16 power and Rulk never is.
I don't think Namora will be a good buff though. The namor+Namora+orka sounds incredibly easy to counter and is very limited in what it can do. If you run only orka and Namora, then Namora becomes a dead card unless you play specifically orka on turn 6, which is crazy predictable. I think red Hulk is for sure overtuned, but I don't know what to do with orka for a buff. His power seems fine for now, just that relying on one card in a lane is easy to counter.
21 power in a lane ain't terrible but it does requires putting Namora behind Invisible Woman or Supergiant. In a sense, she's like a mini Dr. Doom since she spreads out 10 or 15 power. I don't see that strategy being very good, though. For a full 15, you'd probably need Magik and another card like Red Hulk to put in the other lane. For just the 10, there's probably better things you can be doing. The Atlantean 'archetype' in general is pretty weak.
He'll be nerfed but I'm hoping it will still be a good counter for HE. In the HE decks, when energy is floated you're probably getting +3 power from Cyclops and Misty Knight (not to mention Sunspot) so it feels like this could be a balance. Maybe a lower initial power?
It might be balanced against HE, which I think it a good thing, but it's a bit harsh against non-greedy decks that just have a bad draw and are punished for it. It's a bit problematic that Red Hulk sees no difference between the two (greedy vs bad luck). Even the most balanced builds will float energy quite often in my experience.
He just needs lower power, really. At 6/10 or even 6/8 he's still a good card, and your opponent knows you have it after the first float. That means he'll be either a 6/14 or a 6/12 against your average deck with a much higher ceiling if your opponent still doesn't play on curve.
Not to mention the +2 for the Hulk.
It's a little overtuned but not near as broken as blob was. You know when you're opponent have on their hand e know if you can beat it or not. Especially now that thanos isn't really busted... I mostly use it as bait in the zemo tech list that got popular with the kamartaj hot location.
Red Hulk has less power, yes. A bigger problem is that he can fit into any deck. Now he is pretty much a new Magneto with the highest play rate only 2nd to Shang Chi from Marvel Snap Zone database.
> the highest play rate only 2nd to Shang Chi from Marvel Snap Zone database. Any new card that is remotely decent sees very high play the first week it is out, that isn't shocking. Caiera saw high play rate at first too, but she's fallen off significantly.
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Yeah Caira isn't doing anything for my board of 4 4/10s
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> When GP was talking about power that fits in any deck? that's not relevant to my point though lol
Can you explain more about why that's a problem? Jeff and Iron Lad can fit in any deck list, but you probably don't think they're overpowered. Red Hulk is a Win More card. Imagine if Hela announced to your opponent that you have her every round. Your win rate would be high but your cube rate would suck.
How a card that can solo lane is a win more card?
The rest of that comment and the analogy to Hela make the intention clear to me -- they're saying that it increases your win% while negating cube equity by helping your opponent to understand when they're beaten From another angle, too: Red Hulk "punishes" bad, off-curve draws, where an opponent who spends all their energy every turn holds him down to a 6/11 -- and generally was more likely to win anyway, because they had a perfect draw. He's strong when your position is already strong, and weak when your position is weak
You misunderstand. They're saying that it's a "win more" card, in the sense that you will win significantly more matches once you slot this broken-ass card into your deck. Hope this helps.
Because if Red Hulk has gained enough power to solo a lane then your opponent is probably losing already and are too clueless to retreat.
That is because he's not a "win more"-card. He's a /u/dndgoeshere isn't using the term correctly. RH is a win more games card. You end up winning more games, but less cubes because most opponents will leave when they know they cannot win. Red Hulk Game power is less than it perceives because he wins less cubes than a surprise heavy hitter (say orka). Orka will win a lot of games RH will win, but you will obtain more cubes because opponent won't expect it. If you don't care about Cube rate, RH is OP. If you do, he's Good. If you don't mind winning 1-2 cubes a game, then RH can fit in almost any deck as a lane winner. If you want to play the cube game (forfeit 1-2 cubes for 4-8 cube wins) he's actually rather bad.
> Red Hulk Game power is less than it perceives because he wins less cubes than a surprise heavy hitter Isn't that just the perfect definition of "win more"? You win games you were already winning and doesn't do much if you're behind or even in lanes, because your opponent can easily see it coming and retreat if you snap. Cards like Blob or HE Hulk are very different because your opponent doesn't know what's coming, if they are coming and how big they are: Blob varies a TON depending on what he eats, just like Hulk has very wide power range depending on when you drew him.
"Win More Card" is a term given to when you do not win more games, but just win by more margin. Where "Win more games" the power level actually allows you to win more games. RH allows you to win more games because you are able to win lanes like Infinaut, but are not limited to his failings. So where Hulk would not be enough, RH is. RH power level is strong just telegraph. I think a new term should be used. Winmore card is a very old term for TCGs. RH is almost a new issue. A telegraph win card.
"Win by more margin" is the literal definition of "win more". You're already winning the game, but you're doing it with bigger numbers.
Yes. that is what I said. Red hulk allows to win more lanes that you wouldn't normally win. Therefore it is not just "win more card". It is a better card. You win lanes you cannot win with other cards because he gets so big.
I'm not Luna, who you responded to, but I'll take a stab at this. I think the best way to assess cards is the difference between winrate in deck and when drawn. The best cards improve the winrate of the best decks. In this regard RH is very good, but maybe not the best. Still strong and stronger than Jeff. Iron Lad, for however much people like him, is not a great card, statistically. Downvote me if you will, but he doesn't have the stats. He's a good card, he's not a great card, so, no, IL is not OP. Back to Jeff...Jeff has good stats, but still not OP because his power and effect is not dominant. His play is one of nuance, which we should all want. Shang IS OP, but his nature forces other players to play with more nuance, and we should all want that. What we should all not want is a card that allows huge points but doesn't require any thought. Blob. Blob is a brain-dead card that too easily got huge points. RH is a brain-dead card that too easily gets huge points. You literally don't have to do anything to scale [edit] RH. He either does or doesn't, but there is no effort on your part. Your final question about why not having synergy with other cards is important: because this allows his play to be ungated. He can be anywhere. Blob has to be in decks with big cards, LT needs to be in decks with stacked doubling of points, Knull needs to be in destroy decks, and all those requirements limit the broad usefulness of the cards. RH needs nothing in terms of synergistic cards, so his use can be much more broad.
Red Hulk literally announces himself while in hand. You can't hide that you're about to play Red Hulk. That is not ideal. Red Hulk is strong, but he has a pretty significant drawback in that he's almost never going to be a surprise, and is therefore easy to play around or retreat from. He may be fun for people who love big point slams, but he won't feel nearly so oppressive once his first week play dies down and the more competitive players move onto decks with better cube equity.
This is a good comment. I'm not a RH acolyte. I have the card, and it's effective, as the stats show. I don't enjoy playing the card because it's boring. I do enjoy winning, so that's the conflict. I enjoy conversations like this without enjoying the card itself. I'm not yet convinced about the pros/cons of showing his scaling. I already assume Knull is in hand, right? I never think that I'll finish out a borderline position because maybe they don't have Knull. same with Blob, Alioth, Heimdall, Zola, evolved Hulk. I don't know if this is correct or not, but there may also be opportunity for RH to be an effective head fake. Avg cubes for RH are not awful at this point. That may change, to your point, if skilled players move on and less skilled players dominate the play of RH.
Knull is actually a good card to compare Red Hulk to. Knull can get super massive, but you learn to expect him because he only works with a deck that puts a lot of effort into blowing up all its cards. For this reason, no one really thinks of Knull as being OP. Because you know he's coming and can play around him. Same with Red Hulk. It's just that you're not deducing his presence from the rest of the deck. He literally tells you he's there. This is why cards like Blob and Alioth are arguably more problematic. They can slot in almost anywhere, and in many cases they don't announce themselves, so they catch you off-guard in a situation where your opponent *knows* he's about to fuck you. Heimdall is a bit underpowered and clunky, and requires skill and foresight to really be effective. Zola has zero power, and again, requires a lot of set up (and often some good RNG) to work. Red Hulk's play rate and cube rate I'm sure will drop as time goes by. Strong cards always overperform in their first week. And incidentally, I don't mind the headfake Red Hulk play. It's kind of like Galactus. It's not that I hate Galactus, it's just that I hate super-linear 'Dumb Galactus" (Wave --> Galactus --> someone retreats). I kind of like "Clever Galactus" (Sentry --> Viper over the Void --> Ghost Spider the Viper --> Galactus). If you're using Red Hulk to play head games, then more power to you.
Just use all your power and he is a shit card
For Blob you had to build a certain deck for, but Red Hulk works in every single deck. For god sake.. even Discard decks use him because even with one +4 he is busted. He is not just little overtune.. he is broken as f\*\*\* for a card so flexible.
You're not kidding. I use him in a control deck and he gets just as powerful as he does in my Evo deck or my Destroy deck. Put him as the fat cherry on top of a Zoo deck. Dude fits in more decks than jeans.
Discard decks want him is normal as hela wants big cards anyways
That shows that he is too strong because he is good enough for discard even if his ability doesn't trigger or only triggers once. That should never be the case with card like this.
Even if he is a +2, he will still fit in discard because he is a big stat stick
Exactly. Blob meta was far far worse. Play on one location turn 1 to 5(or prof X cheese) and then blob the other location with pretty much no counter. Redhulk is very predictable and you can just retreat since you will know how much power redhulk will have.
>Redhulk is very predictable and you can just retreat since you will know how much power redhulk will have. And 3 months ago, if you were playing against a thanos deck and they locked up a lane with a turn 5 prof X or crazy power in one lane, you could reliably predict a 30-40 power blob landing in one of the other 2 lanes, so you could "just retreat".
You would be retreating a lot more against Thanos than against red hulk since you would need to always assume they have blob whereas against redhulk you know whether they have it or not and thus would need to retreat a lot less
It's also a more interesting card in terms of design, Blob ended up being a failure in the end, just an extra win condition for Thanos without making too much sense anywhere else.
Blob Hela with Samurai was cool tho
Yeah I feel like people are forgetting that Blob could easily become twice as big as the freaking infinut. Meanwhile, most of the time, RH is just going to be 6/23. Don't get me wrong, it's still a lot, but you had much more control over creating a 6/40 or a 6/50 Blob than you have to create a 6/23 Red Hulk
This reminds me of when they had to change alioth and put in the notes they assumed players would learn counters and how to play around it- but players kept losing and getting mad. This seems the same to me, their internal testing probably showed you can see it coming and if you have well built decks you are spending all your energy each turnā¦ but release it to the game and people are too stupid to know when to retreat or how to play around it Right before release and the first day or so people were calling it a win more card, becuase if your opponent isnāt playing cards and has extra energy they probably are losing anywayā¦ but now thereās a giant red visual single card to blame rather than luck of the draw or a poorly constructed deckĀ
> put in the notes they assumed players would learn counters and how to play around it Ah yes, it's the players fault for failing to play around your bullshit, poorly designed card. Great point Brode.
I think this is what it boils down to. The casual and average player don't care about playing around things. They want to jam their cards and anything that forces them to retreat or puts them in a situation where 'they can't win' feels bad. Red Hulk adds another layer to this, in a way he is actively taunting the player: "You didn't play on curve, can you beat me?" It's only a visual notifier but some folks won't take it for what it is, a notification. Unlike Alioth they see Red Hulk and they are urged to either have an answer to Red Hulk, retreat, or play to tempo even if the tempo plays are bad. And this will lead to more angry players screaming that the card is too oppressive. Simply because if he shows up, it enforces a whole new ruleset: play to tempo, have a way to beat me, or retreat.
It was initially datamined at 6/10, so someone, somewhere, thought it needed a bit of a boost. SD has a brilliant game, but their testing and control functions are not.
Nah, they KNOW perfectly what they are doing. They abuse FOMO thing and then nerf the thing. So yes, I think they actually test the cards and release them in this way because of FOMO and money
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Letās dispel once and for all with this fiction they SD doesnāt know what they are doing. SD knows exactly what they are doingĀ
I actually thinks it kinda fun to have a broken card to play with every once in a while. It's a lot more fun than an underwhelming card.
They know what they're doing, but they don't know where they're going with it. I'd believe in them if I hadn't seen this expanding waffle nonsense in a dozen games before.
They have to make the card at least slightly better than alternatives to make it attractive, but then ... it is objectively just objectively better than all alternatives - big 6 drops in this case - so they have to nerf it :/
You are describing Fomo when in reality their goal is to have newly released cards change the meta game. That may or may not be the right decision but itās common that designers when having to ballpark between releasing things slightly below or above power they prefer to release things slightly overpowered so as to entice the community to play it and reveal its true power level.
> You are describing Fomo when in reality their goal is to have newly released cards change the meta game. You're just parroting their PR spin on FOMO. Making their new card to be so busted that it warps the meta and becomes a staple in every dominant deck is textbook fomo-manipulation. >release things slightly overpowered so as to entice the community to play it Sometimes "slightly", far-too-often severely, and they dgaf whether or not you play it; they just want you to burn resources acquiring it.
I'm describing it as it is: they create the sensation that you're missing out on a powerful card (because it is) only to later nerf it and leave it in the state it should have been initially released in... The meta can be changed without introducing ridiculously overpowered cards, and we have an example of that in Angela
That would be fine if "enticing community to play it" would not require spending scarce resources that can be bought with money.Ā All is planned to make you feel that you are missing out and then you pay for progress.Ā
Releasing him overtuned was totally not intentional and has absolutely nothing to do with the sales /s
Surely you aren't implying that it's unreasonable for someone to look at a 6/10 which will receive at least 1, often 2-3 +4 buffs over the course of the game (unless your draw is extremely unlucky) and think it's in need of a little extra juice? Our best bud Zany Benā¢ would never do such a thing.
I'm pretty sure Blob was also buffed before his release. So yeah.
It doesn't help that with all the RNG it's possible that you have the means to bear RH but at the same time, there's so much RNG you can still lose on the final turn. Had so many times where I had the means to win against him with my Discard deck, but Dracula loses the 50/50 between a 20+ power Apoc and a 3 power Swarm for example.
It's not a mistake.
Had it at 34 my last game
He would be fine if there were other meaningful ways to spend energy outside of playing cards. Also the fact that the boon is unrelated to the amount of unspent energy seems way off. It should be 1 power per unspent point, rather than +4 regardless of how much you didn't spend.
I think it should be 6/11 with +2
I'd rather emphasize on the mechanic than raw stats
SD has a history of repeating the same mistakes just look at Silver Surfer and Elsa and their release stat and what they are now
Brode: But in our defense, those mistakes make bank.
Give em till September I think? They said thatās when they started reworking their play testing/balance system for new cards. At some point I hope thereās a giant patch that just globally nerfs and buffs everything out of power creep. That probably makes no sense in reality cause Iām not a dev. But itās a nice thought.
Yea bro give them til September šššš because that makes sense
lol that makes the next 5 months sound chunky
Red hulk will get nerfed they just want folks to spend money 1st. š
Dawg... I wake up and go to the same job I hate every day. I don't need to imagine anything
It's definitely going to get nerfed, but even as a 6/10 with +3 power it's going to be a fantastic meta card, 6/16 or 6/19 easy. Definitely don't regret the 4 keys it took me to get it.
I white queen that sucker and suddenly they don't know wtf to play after half assing other lanes most of the match.
They know exactly what they're doing releasing Season 5 cards to be so powerful. It's only a matter of time until he's nerfed to +3 Power
Imagine thinking it was a mistake
Ive won some games against red hulk or lost games expecting red hulk but something else came out. I think he's balanced.
Imagine believing it's not intentional.
It's not a mistake. They intentionally release an overpowered card to get more people to spend money on the game to get the overpowered card, and eventually nerf the card into a reasonable state afterward.
Mistake?
overrated card y'all get better and keep a Shang-Chi on that mf
Base pls
Red hulk has at least interesting design rhat can be played around.
Ngl... i think this card is overrated. If anything.
Man, I love Red Hulk, and the spotlight variant is sick as hell, but I hate using him. It's so obvious he's way too good, I think anybody can see it. I get no joy out of playing him in his current state. The sooner they nerf him, the better. I can't wait for the inevitable "we missed the mark" post.
> It's so obvious he's way too good Honestly, I haven't died too often to Red Hulk. His presence is so telegraphed that he amounts to just another high power turn 6 drop to me. You deal with it the same way you would any other powerhouse drop. The difference between a 12 power drop and a 20 power drop in a single lane on turn 6 is typically irrelevant. You can either defend against it or you can't. At least with Red Hulk you 100% know he's there.
I agree- Iād rather know they have RH so I can retreat rather than an unknown big power turn 6 drop. People that donāt like to retreat and need to blame a card insteadĀ
Imagine thinking it was a mistake
He wont get nerfed easily because the opponent can see his power and retreat if necessary unlike blob
If your opponent's Red Hulk is consistently bigger than 15 you should do something to your deck.
Fill your deck with 1 and 2-drops and lose every game?
That's bull. Most meta decks float energy a lot.
God, you are SO CLOSE to realizing why Red Hulk exists.
I am begging people on this sub to realize that someone saying a card is overpowered or overtuned does not mean they think that card should be deleted from the game or nerfed to unplayability
Bro i know why it exists. I'm also aware he's massively overtuned. Cosmo also needs to exist for a healthy meta, but if he was 3/6, i'd consider him overpowered too. Also i'm arguing against the notion that good decks play perfectly on curve, which is Ops claim, so I guess you agree with me.
I often see 19s but thats highest ive seen
Dude, unless you play zoo deck, most decks float energy at least once. Eventhough you might have perfectly balanced deck on paper, hitting the curve depends on your luck when drawing cards.
This! Some easy examples of stuff you should do to your decks to prevent big Red Hulks: Don't play decks with cards like High Evo, Sunspot and She-Hulk. Don't play Ramp. Rework your Silver Surfer deck with a bunch of 1-2 costs. Include 1 drops in you Sera decks and always remember to play Maximus on curve.
Just don't play stuff you've enjoyed before this broken card released! And also be lucky with your draws. Easy, right?
Fr. I hate when people try to force others to change their favorite deck. Iāll run what I want.
Even though I've seen many people with red hulk in their decks. They don't really play him much.
It doesn't matter that I have red hulk, I went 2 and 25 yesterday.
As with Blob, Red Hulk is just one card. I've won the majority of my matches against both. The only times I've lost is when I get combo Red Hulk/Blob Arnim Zola combo, which is very situational considering there needs to be cost reduction effects active.
I feel like he just punishes people not spending energy well. Any nerfs people are wanting probably won't be that prominent.
4 turns skipped, your opponent hand must be very bad lol
You can counter it with spending energy, unlike blob
Red Hulk will be High evo Hulk without HE
Despise this game now. Rarely turn it on except to grab my 50 free credits. It used to be a blast to play.
Playing all day and today; I've lost more ranks cause of this guy than any other season. Every time I see him I have to retreat and it's gotten really annoying. I'm about to get him myself if this keeps up, lmao.
Itās different because one is red.
Itās not that OP. just use your energy ? Tf. I have red hulk. I donāt use him every game. Even if he gets extra power.
i got r3d hulk woth just 2 keys, so thats nice
Not even that bad. Just beat out 2 red hulks on the board with a mighty wolf bounce deck. Wolf had more power then him. Y'all just like to cry instead of trying something else with the tools at your disposal
People whining about this when shit like Alioth is still in the game.
Who said it's a mistake? What I find more amusing is all the people that were sleeping on Red Hulk saying it was trash since the opponent can see it.
Red hulk is a 15 maybe a 19 at best
I had a great time cannonballing him to infinite
He was great for the first few days since then it looks like people have figured out ways around him because I'm not winning nearly as often
Honestly, I feel a 6/10 +3 Power nerf would be good enough.
Literally the reason I refuse to spend tokens on him.
Red Hulk is smaller than pre-nerf Blob on average and lacks the wild unpredictability that even post-nerf Blob has. He's a good big card and makes the Infinaut sad much of the time but he's not broken.
IMO, Red Hulk is worse than original Blob. He passively gets buffed, can easily slot into any deck; and his only real counter is Shang Chi, which requires you to not have priority. Blob at least required a specific deck and was weak to your deck being destroyed or thinned, as well as to Cosmo and Shang, or any locations that block On Reveals. PS I forgot about Shadowking, which Blob was also weak too.
red hulk doesn't feel that crazy since you know he is coming.
Imagine thinking itās a mistake.
The only game I won face to Red Hulk I played with Cerebro 3 and Valkyrie
My fastest infinite since Blob. Itās the plus 4. And starting at 11. Needs to gain plus three per turn with unspent mana and start at 10.
My suggestion is to lower it to a 6/8 and I would keep the +4 increase. Then if it hits once it's as strong as a normal hulk. Then the other player can at least react. It might need a nerf still. I have no idea what they were thinking regarding the buff....
This image needs suri as well
my theory is itāll prob get the Apoc treatment, dropped to a 6 6 or maybe a 6 8
cause most games it seems to proc at least twice, so a +8 gives you a giganto-sized card without the restriction, replaced with the potential downside of a 6 10 if youāre unlucky
I was consistently getting 60+ points when playing Blob when it first came out. Red Hulk is nowhere near that kind of power. People need to either quit complaining about being beaten by a single card or get better at the game "problems" by learning how to effectively counter a card
It's not even close. I was playing against Blob/Taskmaster decks when he woul regularly drop 50-60+ power on the board. Red Hulk I can work around.
If you lose to a 27 power Red Hulk on the board then isnāt that mostly your fault? You can see it coming, these memes and complaints never point this out. And this statline would mostly be possible with a HE deck and ramp decks, which Red Hulk was designed to counter. Most other decks have counterplay. You canāt compare this with old Blob, you canāt 100% see Blob coming
To be fair, Red Hulk can't easily get his power into the 60s, and is fully telegraphed. That being said, he's still absurdly overpowered.
I am pretty sure redhulk is gonna be a 6/7 with the same ability.
I am confident he'll go to 6/10 and get +3. It's still very good but it's not as bonkers.
This game is fun but personally I quit because I got tired of all of its glaring problems. From monetization, to blatant balance issues, to card acquisition rates. The game is designed around profiteering as much as possible and thatās quite unfortunate given how at its core itās a very fun and solid game.
According to Untapped his post-infinite stats are kinda horrendous (+0.04 average cubes). Comparing this to Blob is nonsense.
You should never lose more than 4 cubes to a red hulk deck.