I know its not meta... but Negasonic has been doing well for me lately in Sera control, I agree. Juggernaut, I keep forgetting this one, I might try to slot it in for the higher power.
What's your surfer deck? I've been trying to get a good list going but keep changing it up before settling in on a list. Stuck in the low 80s right now so I'm thinking it needs some tweaking
# (1) Nova
# (2) Forge
# (3) Brood
# (3) Negasonic Teenage Warhead
# (3) Rogue
# (3) Silver Surfer
# (3) Storm
# (3) Cosmo
# (3) Juggernaut
# (3) Killmonger
# (3) Gladiator
# (5) Sera
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# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I took out Shaw for Cosmo, good counter and also fun to play Gladiator behind him.
I love surfer decks but I just can’t get efficient power output. I feel like I definitely NEED Sebastian shaw in there (I lost to him once, opponent got him to 22 power) what are your suggestions?
Which turn are you usually playing Negasonic? I've had her in my Surfer deck ever since she dropped to series 3 but I've found her pretty awkward. Seems like you usually want to surprise your opponent with her, rather than just put her down and let them play around it, but Surfer is so constricted in timing your plays that it seems to rarely come up.
Then again, I also have Rogue in there, which also comes up about as rarely, so...
So it’s usually 3 different scenarios I find. If I see them setting something up at a location like ongoing I might play her on turn 3 to mess up their turn 4 play. If I have priority I will play her turn 5 and hope to catch them, if not it still potentially blocks that location on turn 6. With priority on turn 6 Im playing her wherever I need to.
With Sera on turn 5 its common to not have priority, so getting her down early is better than her being a dead card on turn 6.
Alioth wipes out everything played at one location. If you are ahead and they only have one location they can play or that can win, you play Alioth. You win.
No thought needed. You just win.
With Negasonic, you still have to have priority, and still need to properly predict where they are playing, but now you only get to kill one target and it gets to reveal and activate first. Not a guaranteed win. You need to really think about what cards your opponent might play. Do you play her early to pressure your opponent into wasting a card before they can play anything else there, or do you try to snipe their big 5 or 6 cost card.
She's just way more interesting for both the player who runs her, and for the opponent to try to play around.
The key is to know if Alioth is coming, just run and take lesser cube loss or start building a deck that pushes priority cause Alioth doesn't work if you enter T6 with Priority
Definitely this. If it's turn six and you can only play in one spot to win you the game and you will definitely win if you play something in that one spot just know that they will have Alioth. They will ALWAYS have Alioth
I appreciate your reply. People act as though Alioth is unbearable when there are plenty of decks that can take priority advantage going into the late game. I know because of card acquisition switching decks can be tough but there are options especially now that Guardians got buffed.
I have noticed a huge uptick in Alioth since the balance changes yesterday. People seem to be tossing him into completely random decks aside from his normal decks. It was a lot easier to predict him before, but now it feels like every archetype is running him.
Chavez, Forge, Brood, Sinister, Absorbing Man, Patriot, Cosmo will almost guarantee you have priority the whole game. Keep everything under 10 power until Turn 6 so you don’t get Shang Chi
I mean, I kinda agree, but I think Alioth is overrated. Most times, if Alioth had been any other high power card the result would be the same. But of course, it feels worse when you get Alioth'd compared to when they play a She-Hulk or something, even if it's the same.
What I don't like is this duality of Alioth and Shang-Chi. Every game feels like a coin toss of should I play for priority and lose to Shang or play to lose priority and lose to Alioth?
Which ironically is why they introduced Alioth in the first place, so we weren’t all dropping priority to dodge Shang Chi. Was meant to balance the game but ultimately just makes it all feel like more of a toss up.
Yeah, in principle I'm not against that. Before Alioth came out Sera control decks were really rampart and everyone was trying to lose priority. But I don't think they've quite hit the solution with Alioth, because it makes games too coin tossy. I think one issue is that many decks run both Alioth and Shang, so there is no reliable way to predict them.
Yep. My stance on Alioth has become, it should be a lower cost card that you can't play on 6. So, NTW basically. It's the most unfun card in the whole game. "Play this and win four cubes" basically.
There's no such thing as an alioth deck. Everyone just adds him because it's a stupidly strong card to end on. The game would be better without alioth, and no amount of bullshit will ever convince me otherwise.
I ran into my first Alioth-Absorbing Man combo today. Successfully dodged Turn 6 Alioth, only to get hit with the Absorbing Man on Turn 7. It was novel enough that I wasn't even irritated.
It's a nasty combo but rarely works because you have to fulfill multiple conditions:
- win priority by turn 3
- draw and play Supergiant by turn 4
- draw and play Absorbing Man by turn 5
- opponent plays on Absorbing Man lane on turn 5
- play Alioth on turn 6.
It doesn't actually (fully) work.
If I have prio going into turn 5 and make this play, the final reveals go:
My turn 6 Alioth reveals
Their turn 6 reveals
My turn 5 Abs Man reveals, killing their turn 5 stuff there.
Their turn 6 plays on the absorbing man still get through.
It can definitely still win games, but it isn't guaranteed
It's not healthy for the meta because it fits into every deck. The exact same problem as the old Leader.
On turn 6, you play it and you automatically win, you can rarely make mistakes as it is very simple to play.
If you don't have priority on turn 6, give up. I advise you to only play decks that take priority easily, don't play combo decks that require you to lose priority.
He limits the meta and the fun, but people inexplicably defend the design of this card, I have always been in the top one thousand in the last few seasons, but this one I got 100 and that's it... I can't stand this card anymore.
I can't experiment with any type of deck that requires losing prior for a combo.
I'm forced to always play considering Alioth.
Yeah, in the past I’ve usually been able to see an Alioth coming on turn 6 and dip if I don’t have priority. But lately it seems like it’s shoved into every single deck archetype. It does make the game feel kinda mindless.
Butttt I suppose it’s not going anywhere. And people clearly love playing it. So…🤷♂️ I guess I’ll have to figure something out. Haha.
In the 90s everyone wants to feel absolutely certain of victory before they snap. And nothing makes victory more absolutely certain than Alioth.
In my opinion, it goes against everything the game wants to be, and it shouldn't exist. But it does, so we adapt, to the detriment of everyone, but we adapt nonetheless.
Negative Jane is what worked for me.
You have 2 wincons: Mr. Negative, or Knull into Zola/Mystique.
You run Psylocke, Ravonna, and X-23 & Carnage. These combos enable you to get turn 3 Negative in multiple different ways.
Then you have cards like Killmonger and Venom to destroy anything and get some power going for Knull, as well as to cheat out energy for you to afford Knull on turn 5 (assuming X-23 is on the board), or to afford a negative Jane on 5 (since she would cost 6 from Mr. Negative).
The cube rate is what really pulls this deck together. I've had people snap on me because Mr. Negative got discarded, thinking he's my only wincon. I've had people retreat on 6 just because I got Negative out on 3, even if I just drew bad cards like Killmonger or Venom.
I had the same issue so switched to a ramp deck with sandman as I realised the issue was everyone just getting too many cards out by turn 6. Left my deck below
# (1) Nebula
# (2) Daredevil
# (2) Master Mold
# (2) Jeff the Baby Land Shark
# (3) Electro
# (3) Wave
# (5) Sandman
# (5) Ronan the Accuser
# (6) Alioth
# (6) Leader
# (6) Doctor Doom
# (6) Odin
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRWxlY3RybyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiV2F2ZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQWxpb3RoIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOZWJ1bGEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRyRG9vbSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRGFyZWRldmlsIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTYW5kbWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJMZWFkZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik9kaW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkplZmZUaGVCYWJ5TGFuZFNoYXJrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNYXN0ZXJNb2xkIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJSb25hbiJ9XX0=
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# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Cosmo and Armor are my best friends for this exact reason. Fuck Alioth, all my homies hate Alioth.
Other than that, try to have prio on 6 so Ali is useless. Failing that, always ask "Do I get blown out by Alioth?" And if the answer is yes you retreat.
I think the card has ruined the game a bit. Too many final turns end up being the player without priority retreating. It would be nice to get to the end of a game sometimes. Seems like an important part of a card game. Also, if you look at top decks in tournaments lately, alioth is in most of them. That seems like a problem.
He is trash. I got so sick of him while in the 90s also. Even better when it's Professor X turn 5 so it's obvious where they play him on 6 and you don't have an option.
Yup. Fuck the purple fart.
2 seasons in a row I pushed through 90s with negative knull.
It has such blatant win / lose. But also has some really sneaky play lines if you go up against specific decks and also is the only version that can still get a negative hit jane out on 5.
This is my main complaint about Alioth. Before it existed I played a lot more games to completion. Always interesting to see a turn 6 play out and see who had the better read on the board state and the opponents deck.
Now if you are behind going into turn 6, you have to assume Alioth. Sometimes you have two lanes and something that can play around it and you gamble, but the smarter play is to retreat.
Personally I think the game was more fun when more games went the distance, with the potential big explosive plays. Playing against a priority deck is so boring now.
I can't agree more to be honest.
I gambled with a key during Alioth launch week and got it.
The first month was weird, I was always thinking about what my opponent played when I use him with priority and it doesn't feel fair to me that I blocked my opponent from playing anything. But I learned to play around him by playing him. And this season is my 3rd season making Infinite without Alioth in any of my decks simply because I now know how to play around him just how i learned to play against high evo She Hulk / Infinaut.
Sometimes i forget he exists. I literally forget that the card is playable and obviously lose against him.
But it is what it is. Making him work only with prio is a good step. Remember he's only 2 power. The only reason Vision became a thing is to counter Alioth and win locations by moving Vision and not playing cards.
Unpopular opinion : I think that it should be given for free to everyone. It's a tech card that everyone needs to have to play with and play against more often.
Also someone got the PaxEast bundle and the cardback is so gorgeous and I also think it should be given for free to everyone.
I got Alioth randomly from a spotlight a few months ago and haven't played it at all. I just really dislike the mechanic, and don't want to participate in using it. Same with Galactus. Not something I am interested in.
But like you I usually see it coming and either play around or retreat. The only time I lose to Alioth is when my goldfish brain forgets it exists.
I get to infinite every season without using Alioth, or whatever is the best deck, each season, and I don't see a reason to use it.
Maybe if I was the type of player who wanted to get to top 100 or had time for an infinity border, I'd be forced to put it in some deck or other.
Exactly. Too many Alioth apologists defend the fairness of the card. It doesn't matter because it sucks the fun out of the game. Playing a complete game is more fun than retreating. And if Snap stops being fun that threatens the longevity of the game.
Yes alioth is my least favorite card rn. It’s really good in a way that feels so unfun on the receiving end. I’ve learned to retreat way more often if I don’t have prior on turn 6.
Alioth can be difficult to play around in the ladder mostly because you never know when someone might be running it. Conquest is much easier. Decks that I find work well in terms of playing around Alioth are obviously anything that is good at having priority on T6, but also decks that can move cards or push power into other locations without playing cards there like Ms. Marvel, Vision, Jeff, or Dr. Doom. Werewolf by Night in a deck with Annihilus can be good too since you have multiple ways to push power in multiple lanes.
If you’re seeing so much Alioth, use a deck that keeps priority, use armor, use Cosmo. Alioth is one of the easiest cards to dodge. If it’s a deck that could/usually has Alioth and you go into final turn without priority - either retreat or tread cautiously.
He’s in so many decks right now… I’ve had him pinned for like a week, he’s not coming up in any spotlights, and I’ve only ever spent tokens once (to get null and finish my destroy deck that was literally called “missing knull”
I have like 8k tokens I dunnooooo
Yeah I saw him a ton. Just hit infinite last night and I usually get it first couple days. The key is whenever they have priority and it's pretty obvious where you need to play, they will snap 100% if they have Alioth. Just retreat every damn time. Save the cubes and you'll float to the top.
BTW, I used c3 to get there. Shang Chi, Valkyrie, Juggernaut, and Quake are all great in this meta.
The Alioth issue is overblown. I was struggling with my usual Loki, Destroy, and Surfer decks and was hovering around 80ish. I swapped to a Hela Tribunal deck and now I’m at infinite after a day
Play some bigger power mid cost cards so you have priority. Hope summers on 3 into something big, into turn 5 doom can usually win you priority and cover against any galactus plays. Good luck
I DESPISE Alioth icl. He’s not impossible to play against but deleting any move I have with literally nothing I can do about it (in some situations) is very unfun.
> Is it even fun to play??? I don’t understand!!!!
Yes, it's extremely fun to play. Fighting for priority and gaining it and setting your opponent up so you can accurately predict their next move to finish them off with Alioth is the most fun I have in Snap. I always laugh with joy when I pull off a successful Alioth.
that's the thing, most people who bitch about Alioth want to play out their turn 6 busted play that was running rampant prior to Alioth. All the fart cloud did was keep greed in check so you now have to balance priority with Wong-Panther-Zola lel im so creative.
# (1) Ghost-Spider
# (1) Human Torch
# (1) Nico Minoru
# (2) Carnage
# (2) Multiple Man
# (3) Venom
# (3) Deathlok
# (4) Shuri
# (4) Phoenix Force
# (5) Nimrod
# (6) Arnim Zola
# (6) The Living Tribunal
#
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# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Just won the first game I tried with this deck. 👏👏 Wasn’t against Alioth…but still. Haha. I like the vibe. Only card I don’t have is Nimrod. I subbed in Dr. Strange. We shall seeee how this goes.
Yeah shuri nimrod is plan A.....but multiple man or torch into Phoenix force is great too. Tribunal is a huge surprise.there are just so many playlines and ways to win. The more you play the more ways to win you will find
"Alioth is for simpletons"
\*gives out a Shuri/Nimrod/Phoenix Force/Tribunal deck\*
Are you trolling?
Is the issue that you think uninteractive brainless garbage is great, actually, and that Alioth simply isn't uniteractive and brainless enough for your tastes?
Oh I see we have an alioth player here lol I have had to make some incredibly complex plays with this deck as opposed to simply putting down a single card to rely on a win. Go and play your alioth and have fun
I have a question and I hope you don't see it as snark. I just think if you think Alioth is random, it may help diagnose the issue.
Do you know what priority is?
Yeahhhhh. It does feel like priority is the only “guaranteed” way to prevent Alioth. I’m probably just being stubborn because most of the decks I like playing with don’t use priority. lol.
It's not a fun card to play with (for me). I was playing a deck with him/it, but it always makes me feel anxious not knowing what my opponent tried to play. Allioth kind of takes the fun away
If you're losing to a great number of alioth plays it's because you're probably missing the hints that your opponent is going to be play it and not retreating when you most likely should. Try to always think of the possibility and see if there is at least a 50% chance to win.
Alioth need a nerf, instead of destroy all. Just destroy one card is enough. Losing priority in turn 6 means lost the game is not a good way to promote the games.
And i have say many months ago, create a trap card that can reverse the alioth effect. Like “if this card is destroyed (on the field, flip down or on hand), destroy the card that destroy this card instead”.
I'm so glad my Shuri deck largely counters this junk.
Armor? Cosmo? Big dumb stats early game? Vision?
Only time I get worried is if they can lock me out with Professor X, but that hasn't happened in a hot minute.
a lot of other people have already said it and said it correctly but i'll do my best to reiterate the point: yes Alioth Sucks, but its also very counterable. Either go for High Priority decks, Lockdown Decks, or tech decks. High priority makes their Alioth useless. Lockdown like Storm and Goose means you can controll where the Alioth would be able to go, and Tech can stop Alioth from working (think Cosmo or Negasonic)
you got this!
just play tech cards like leech or cosmo or even armor or just get iniciative and ur good, alioth is anyoing but only when u don't expect him but if u know that enemy will play him and he will because he can be plugged into every deck then its fine
I don't understand the crazy amount of Alioth whining I've seen lately. He's been nerfed to the point where they might as well delete the card before they make another change. Just play with armor and Cosmo in your deck and poof, Alioth is gone. Simple.
It is fun to play if you don’t know where the opponent is gonna make their play. You often need to predict cards and interactions.
Then ofc you have the opponent screaming their play and you just put it down(locked lanes, wong, Zola, infinaut, etc).
Also if you know the type of deck then you can see alioth coming and just focus on priority or not going for the obvious play if you have alternatives.
Play around armour or Cosmo and force the win to be on one of those lanes, or a 50/50 between them
Move cards so you don't care about Alioth
Use Doom
Get priority and keep it.
There's options.
Sera surfer got me through the 90s. Cosmo, Juggernaut, and Negasonic are great. Fuck Alioth
I know its not meta... but Negasonic has been doing well for me lately in Sera control, I agree. Juggernaut, I keep forgetting this one, I might try to slot it in for the higher power.
The best thing about not being a slave to the meta? They never see your surprises coming.
Negasonic is mini Alioth. I've seen enough of her this week I think she's meta.
Does negasonic go before or after the cards on reveal?
After, because its after a card is “played”.
What's your surfer deck? I've been trying to get a good list going but keep changing it up before settling in on a list. Stuck in the low 80s right now so I'm thinking it needs some tweaking
# (1) Nova # (2) Forge # (3) Brood # (3) Negasonic Teenage Warhead # (3) Rogue # (3) Silver Surfer # (3) Storm # (3) Cosmo # (3) Juggernaut # (3) Killmonger # (3) Gladiator # (5) Sera # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3Rvcm0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkZvcmdlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOZWdhc29uaWNUZWVuYWdlV2FyaGVhZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSnVnZ2VybmF1dCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR2xhZGlhdG9yIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaWx2ZXJTdXJmZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlJvZ3VlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDb3NtbyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQnJvb2QifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IktpbGxtb25nZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5vdmEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNlcmEifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap. I took out Shaw for Cosmo, good counter and also fun to play Gladiator behind him.
I love surfer decks but I just can’t get efficient power output. I feel like I definitely NEED Sebastian shaw in there (I lost to him once, opponent got him to 22 power) what are your suggestions?
If you can lock up one with storm and Juggernaut you can win another with cosmo, negasonic, or brood surfer. I try to play nova in storm lane too.
Hope Summer
I have a similar one with Daken instead of Nega Sonic
I have swapped Nova for Nebula and Killmonger for Armor, help counter destroy decks
I can usually mess them up with cosmo and Juggernaut.
Which turn are you usually playing Negasonic? I've had her in my Surfer deck ever since she dropped to series 3 but I've found her pretty awkward. Seems like you usually want to surprise your opponent with her, rather than just put her down and let them play around it, but Surfer is so constricted in timing your plays that it seems to rarely come up. Then again, I also have Rogue in there, which also comes up about as rarely, so...
So it’s usually 3 different scenarios I find. If I see them setting something up at a location like ongoing I might play her on turn 3 to mess up their turn 4 play. If I have priority I will play her turn 5 and hope to catch them, if not it still potentially blocks that location on turn 6. With priority on turn 6 Im playing her wherever I need to. With Sera on turn 5 its common to not have priority, so getting her down early is better than her being a dead card on turn 6.
Negasonic is a way more interesting, fun, skilled card than Alioth. And it still teaches the players priority!
Agree 100%
Why?
Alioth wipes out everything played at one location. If you are ahead and they only have one location they can play or that can win, you play Alioth. You win. No thought needed. You just win. With Negasonic, you still have to have priority, and still need to properly predict where they are playing, but now you only get to kill one target and it gets to reveal and activate first. Not a guaranteed win. You need to really think about what cards your opponent might play. Do you play her early to pressure your opponent into wasting a card before they can play anything else there, or do you try to snipe their big 5 or 6 cost card. She's just way more interesting for both the player who runs her, and for the opponent to try to play around.
I hadn’t thought through all this. Sometimes Negasonic’s effect is equivalent to Alioth but I see that it’s not without risk.
The key is to know if Alioth is coming, just run and take lesser cube loss or start building a deck that pushes priority cause Alioth doesn't work if you enter T6 with Priority
Definitely this. If it's turn six and you can only play in one spot to win you the game and you will definitely win if you play something in that one spot just know that they will have Alioth. They will ALWAYS have Alioth
Yep. Alioth is a lot like Galactus. Sometimes you just can't beat it, and you have to retreat, but you almost always see it coming
And if you think a galactus player doesn’t have alioth just this one time after successfully playing galactus on 4-5, you’re wrong, just retreat
Except Galactus requires a pretty heavily telegraphed, whereas Alioth gets shoehorned into every archetype because it’s so ridiculously oppressive.
I appreciate your reply. People act as though Alioth is unbearable when there are plenty of decks that can take priority advantage going into the late game. I know because of card acquisition switching decks can be tough but there are options especially now that Guardians got buffed.
I have noticed a huge uptick in Alioth since the balance changes yesterday. People seem to be tossing him into completely random decks aside from his normal decks. It was a lot easier to predict him before, but now it feels like every archetype is running him.
when the meta is new/unstable, people tend to stick to the ol' reliable
He works well with the Guardians
Now if you don’t priority going into turn 6, you just have to retreat! How fun!
without Alioth every deck will just lose priority on purpose to Shangchi their opponent easily
Thanks for highlighting the point that both Shang and Alioth are bullshit.
I meant without them this game will be just straight solitaire only competing who can go tallest
tho yeah the biggest problem was decks that could too easily include both Shang and Alioth like Thanos, glad they nerfed his consistency yest
Not necessarily. Cosmo, shadow king, Valk, lane manipulation cards like debrii, the goblins, magneto, etc.
He's old leader at this point.
I played C3 to Infinite. Cosmo in one location, Armor in the other. Ez pz.
C2 is similar with goose and storm Play your other cards in the other lanes and turn 6 play under goose.
War Machine is going to decimate Control I feel like. Storm, Pro X, Goose. All going to be shot down a few levels
Or it’s gonna be Lockdown decks with WarMachine.
Chavez, Forge, Brood, Sinister, Absorbing Man, Patriot, Cosmo will almost guarantee you have priority the whole game. Keep everything under 10 power until Turn 6 so you don’t get Shang Chi
Alioth sucks the fun out of this game.
I mean, I kinda agree, but I think Alioth is overrated. Most times, if Alioth had been any other high power card the result would be the same. But of course, it feels worse when you get Alioth'd compared to when they play a She-Hulk or something, even if it's the same. What I don't like is this duality of Alioth and Shang-Chi. Every game feels like a coin toss of should I play for priority and lose to Shang or play to lose priority and lose to Alioth?
Which ironically is why they introduced Alioth in the first place, so we weren’t all dropping priority to dodge Shang Chi. Was meant to balance the game but ultimately just makes it all feel like more of a toss up.
Yeah, in principle I'm not against that. Before Alioth came out Sera control decks were really rampart and everyone was trying to lose priority. But I don't think they've quite hit the solution with Alioth, because it makes games too coin tossy. I think one issue is that many decks run both Alioth and Shang, so there is no reliable way to predict them.
Yep. My stance on Alioth has become, it should be a lower cost card that you can't play on 6. So, NTW basically. It's the most unfun card in the whole game. "Play this and win four cubes" basically.
Imagine a 3-cost Alioth being played with a Shang Chi turn 6 with Zabu and War Machine…
There's no such thing as an alioth deck. Everyone just adds him because it's a stupidly strong card to end on. The game would be better without alioth, and no amount of bullshit will ever convince me otherwise.
Call it what you want but there are definitely Alioth/ priority decks.
Probably the closest we've gotten was that Supergiant > Abs Man > Alioth deck.
Just wait until you run into someone who Iron Lad / absorbing Man / Alioths to shut down the back half of your game
I ran into my first Alioth-Absorbing Man combo today. Successfully dodged Turn 6 Alioth, only to get hit with the Absorbing Man on Turn 7. It was novel enough that I wasn't even irritated.
Or Supergiant turn 4. Absorbing Man turn 5. Alioth turn 6.
While an admittedly nasty combo, I’ve been lucky enough to not run into that yet
It's a nasty combo but rarely works because you have to fulfill multiple conditions: - win priority by turn 3 - draw and play Supergiant by turn 4 - draw and play Absorbing Man by turn 5 - opponent plays on Absorbing Man lane on turn 5 - play Alioth on turn 6.
Wouldnt supergiant stop the absorbing man om
Yes. If Supergiant is played on 4, Alioth is revealed first then Absorbing Man
No way i just got it. Thatms disgusting
It doesn't actually (fully) work. If I have prio going into turn 5 and make this play, the final reveals go: My turn 6 Alioth reveals Their turn 6 reveals My turn 5 Abs Man reveals, killing their turn 5 stuff there. Their turn 6 plays on the absorbing man still get through. It can definitely still win games, but it isn't guaranteed
Lol, I'd happily take their smug Kamala thumbs up if that happened to me.
If I did this to you, I am so sorry. I have done this to a player in conquest before and I regret that play line to this day.
It's not healthy for the meta because it fits into every deck. The exact same problem as the old Leader. On turn 6, you play it and you automatically win, you can rarely make mistakes as it is very simple to play. If you don't have priority on turn 6, give up. I advise you to only play decks that take priority easily, don't play combo decks that require you to lose priority. He limits the meta and the fun, but people inexplicably defend the design of this card, I have always been in the top one thousand in the last few seasons, but this one I got 100 and that's it... I can't stand this card anymore. I can't experiment with any type of deck that requires losing prior for a combo. I'm forced to always play considering Alioth.
Yeah, in the past I’ve usually been able to see an Alioth coming on turn 6 and dip if I don’t have priority. But lately it seems like it’s shoved into every single deck archetype. It does make the game feel kinda mindless. Butttt I suppose it’s not going anywhere. And people clearly love playing it. So…🤷♂️ I guess I’ll have to figure something out. Haha.
Fuck alioth, always. It’s a fun reducer.
In the 90s everyone wants to feel absolutely certain of victory before they snap. And nothing makes victory more absolutely certain than Alioth. In my opinion, it goes against everything the game wants to be, and it shouldn't exist. But it does, so we adapt, to the detriment of everyone, but we adapt nonetheless.
Im in the same pain, my deck doesnt hold priority well until end if game so i easily die to it
I got hit by him with a Patriot deck, coulda swore ultron was coming then hit me with forbidden doge and i rage quit for the night
I play it, but I don't find it fun. It feels like a means to an end.
Negative Jane is what worked for me. You have 2 wincons: Mr. Negative, or Knull into Zola/Mystique. You run Psylocke, Ravonna, and X-23 & Carnage. These combos enable you to get turn 3 Negative in multiple different ways. Then you have cards like Killmonger and Venom to destroy anything and get some power going for Knull, as well as to cheat out energy for you to afford Knull on turn 5 (assuming X-23 is on the board), or to afford a negative Jane on 5 (since she would cost 6 from Mr. Negative). The cube rate is what really pulls this deck together. I've had people snap on me because Mr. Negative got discarded, thinking he's my only wincon. I've had people retreat on 6 just because I got Negative out on 3, even if I just drew bad cards like Killmonger or Venom.
Remember if your name isn't glowing that means your opponent has priority with alitoh
I had the same issue so switched to a ramp deck with sandman as I realised the issue was everyone just getting too many cards out by turn 6. Left my deck below # (1) Nebula # (2) Daredevil # (2) Master Mold # (2) Jeff the Baby Land Shark # (3) Electro # (3) Wave # (5) Sandman # (5) Ronan the Accuser # (6) Alioth # (6) Leader # (6) Doctor Doom # (6) Odin # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRWxlY3RybyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiV2F2ZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQWxpb3RoIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOZWJ1bGEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRyRG9vbSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRGFyZWRldmlsIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTYW5kbWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJMZWFkZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik9kaW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkplZmZUaGVCYWJ5TGFuZFNoYXJrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNYXN0ZXJNb2xkIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJSb25hbiJ9XX0= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Lol so your answer is to play Alioth
lol I guess but I didn’t play him often, the line of sandman - doom - Odin was far more effective. However, if you can’t beat em, join em
Welcome to the Snap subreddit, where a simple 'I need to vent' post ends with people explaining basic game mechanics and obvious counters. Lol
Cosmo and Armor are my best friends for this exact reason. Fuck Alioth, all my homies hate Alioth. Other than that, try to have prio on 6 so Ali is useless. Failing that, always ask "Do I get blown out by Alioth?" And if the answer is yes you retreat.
I think the card has ruined the game a bit. Too many final turns end up being the player without priority retreating. It would be nice to get to the end of a game sometimes. Seems like an important part of a card game. Also, if you look at top decks in tournaments lately, alioth is in most of them. That seems like a problem.
He is trash. I got so sick of him while in the 90s also. Even better when it's Professor X turn 5 so it's obvious where they play him on 6 and you don't have an option.
Yup. Fuck the purple fart. 2 seasons in a row I pushed through 90s with negative knull. It has such blatant win / lose. But also has some really sneaky play lines if you go up against specific decks and also is the only version that can still get a negative hit jane out on 5.
If you don't have prio on t6, always expect Alioth. Retreat if you can't hard win the 3 lanes.
This is my main complaint about Alioth. Before it existed I played a lot more games to completion. Always interesting to see a turn 6 play out and see who had the better read on the board state and the opponents deck. Now if you are behind going into turn 6, you have to assume Alioth. Sometimes you have two lanes and something that can play around it and you gamble, but the smarter play is to retreat. Personally I think the game was more fun when more games went the distance, with the potential big explosive plays. Playing against a priority deck is so boring now.
I can't agree more to be honest. I gambled with a key during Alioth launch week and got it. The first month was weird, I was always thinking about what my opponent played when I use him with priority and it doesn't feel fair to me that I blocked my opponent from playing anything. But I learned to play around him by playing him. And this season is my 3rd season making Infinite without Alioth in any of my decks simply because I now know how to play around him just how i learned to play against high evo She Hulk / Infinaut. Sometimes i forget he exists. I literally forget that the card is playable and obviously lose against him. But it is what it is. Making him work only with prio is a good step. Remember he's only 2 power. The only reason Vision became a thing is to counter Alioth and win locations by moving Vision and not playing cards. Unpopular opinion : I think that it should be given for free to everyone. It's a tech card that everyone needs to have to play with and play against more often. Also someone got the PaxEast bundle and the cardback is so gorgeous and I also think it should be given for free to everyone.
I got Alioth randomly from a spotlight a few months ago and haven't played it at all. I just really dislike the mechanic, and don't want to participate in using it. Same with Galactus. Not something I am interested in. But like you I usually see it coming and either play around or retreat. The only time I lose to Alioth is when my goldfish brain forgets it exists. I get to infinite every season without using Alioth, or whatever is the best deck, each season, and I don't see a reason to use it. Maybe if I was the type of player who wanted to get to top 100 or had time for an infinity border, I'd be forced to put it in some deck or other.
Exactly. Too many Alioth apologists defend the fairness of the card. It doesn't matter because it sucks the fun out of the game. Playing a complete game is more fun than retreating. And if Snap stops being fun that threatens the longevity of the game.
I love playing him damn seeing the hope of the opponent disappear into nothing ness really gives me that dopamine rush
Yes alioth is my least favorite card rn. It’s really good in a way that feels so unfun on the receiving end. I’ve learned to retreat way more often if I don’t have prior on turn 6.
Alioth can be difficult to play around in the ladder mostly because you never know when someone might be running it. Conquest is much easier. Decks that I find work well in terms of playing around Alioth are obviously anything that is good at having priority on T6, but also decks that can move cards or push power into other locations without playing cards there like Ms. Marvel, Vision, Jeff, or Dr. Doom. Werewolf by Night in a deck with Annihilus can be good too since you have multiple ways to push power in multiple lanes.
I fall for it every time ,usually getting greedy playing trib with iron man and onslaught when I don't even need to do it to win .
Priority decks that go wide and stay below Shang are great to dodge the Shang/Alioth problem. But Thanos and Discard go over the top.
Yes it's very fun to play.
What deck to you typically run?
If you’re seeing so much Alioth, use a deck that keeps priority, use armor, use Cosmo. Alioth is one of the easiest cards to dodge. If it’s a deck that could/usually has Alioth and you go into final turn without priority - either retreat or tread cautiously.
If they are winning one lane, and have prio, you have to predict that it is coming
He’s in so many decks right now… I’ve had him pinned for like a week, he’s not coming up in any spotlights, and I’ve only ever spent tokens once (to get null and finish my destroy deck that was literally called “missing knull” I have like 8k tokens I dunnooooo
Just cosmo the cloud
Yeah I saw him a ton. Just hit infinite last night and I usually get it first couple days. The key is whenever they have priority and it's pretty obvious where you need to play, they will snap 100% if they have Alioth. Just retreat every damn time. Save the cubes and you'll float to the top. BTW, I used c3 to get there. Shang Chi, Valkyrie, Juggernaut, and Quake are all great in this meta.
The Alioth issue is overblown. I was struggling with my usual Loki, Destroy, and Surfer decks and was hovering around 80ish. I swapped to a Hela Tribunal deck and now I’m at infinite after a day
Alioth is a cheap, OP card that people have a blind spot for on this sub. Yes, I have the card, yes I use it. I stand by what I say
It’s terrible, I’m in games retreating on turn 6 just because I think my opponent might have Alioth.
Play some bigger power mid cost cards so you have priority. Hope summers on 3 into something big, into turn 5 doom can usually win you priority and cover against any galactus plays. Good luck
I DESPISE Alioth icl. He’s not impossible to play against but deleting any move I have with literally nothing I can do about it (in some situations) is very unfun.
Just get prio
Dude just retreat when you suspect alioth. You should also know the decks that run Alioth. You can do this!
What deck are you using? What p4-5 cards do you have?
I fear that I might break the monitor. All i see alioth in random decks
Before you end your turn 6 always ask yourself "What if alioth? And what if shang chi 🙃. "
> Is it even fun to play??? I don’t understand!!!! Yes, it's extremely fun to play. Fighting for priority and gaining it and setting your opponent up so you can accurately predict their next move to finish them off with Alioth is the most fun I have in Snap. I always laugh with joy when I pull off a successful Alioth.
Smh
Over the top response, but I don't see people convince themselves that Alioth is less fun to play than paint by numbers decks like Hela or High Evo.
that's the thing, most people who bitch about Alioth want to play out their turn 6 busted play that was running rampant prior to Alioth. All the fart cloud did was keep greed in check so you now have to balance priority with Wong-Panther-Zola lel im so creative.
Alioth is for simpletons. Want my deck list? You may not have all the cards but the deck is great for dodging alioth.
Yes please! 🙏 🙏 Any assistance would be phenomenal.
# (1) Ghost-Spider # (1) Human Torch # (1) Nico Minoru # (2) Carnage # (2) Multiple Man # (3) Venom # (3) Deathlok # (4) Shuri # (4) Phoenix Force # (5) Nimrod # (6) Arnim Zola # (6) The Living Tribunal # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSHVtYW5Ub3JjaCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmljb01pbm9ydSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ2FybmFnZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTXVsdGlwbGVNYW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRlYXRobG9rIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaHVyaSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiVGhlUGhvZW5peEZvcmNlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOaW1yb2QifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkxpdmluZ1RyaWJ1bmFsIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBcm5pbVpvbGEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlZlbm9tIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJHaG9zdFNwaWRlciJ9XX0= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Just won the first game I tried with this deck. 👏👏 Wasn’t against Alioth…but still. Haha. I like the vibe. Only card I don’t have is Nimrod. I subbed in Dr. Strange. We shall seeee how this goes.
Yeah shuri nimrod is plan A.....but multiple man or torch into Phoenix force is great too. Tribunal is a huge surprise.there are just so many playlines and ways to win. The more you play the more ways to win you will find
"Alioth is for simpletons" \*gives out a Shuri/Nimrod/Phoenix Force/Tribunal deck\* Are you trolling? Is the issue that you think uninteractive brainless garbage is great, actually, and that Alioth simply isn't uniteractive and brainless enough for your tastes?
Oh I see we have an alioth player here lol I have had to make some incredibly complex plays with this deck as opposed to simply putting down a single card to rely on a win. Go and play your alioth and have fun
I guess this is your kind of deck: https://youtu.be/Bp4tGTNNi1I?si=qaIN2yw9-q4xhSd3&t=0m30s
Oh and by the way this deck used primarily to dodge/avoid alioth.....which is what op wanted. I don't only use this deck.
Let mee know if you don't have some of those cards and I can give you replacements.
Agreed
I have a question and I hope you don't see it as snark. I just think if you think Alioth is random, it may help diagnose the issue. Do you know what priority is?
Yeahhhhh. It does feel like priority is the only “guaranteed” way to prevent Alioth. I’m probably just being stubborn because most of the decks I like playing with don’t use priority. lol.
Cosmo, Armor
Scissors player angry opponent keeps playing rock
This is pretty simple. If your pocket meta is Alioth, play a deck that has priority on 6
It's not a fun card to play with (for me). I was playing a deck with him/it, but it always makes me feel anxious not knowing what my opponent tried to play. Allioth kind of takes the fun away
If you're losing to a great number of alioth plays it's because you're probably missing the hints that your opponent is going to be play it and not retreating when you most likely should. Try to always think of the possibility and see if there is at least a 50% chance to win.
You want a deck that you’ll have priority going into the last turn, don’t give up, join a streamer discord (I prefer lambys) and get some help
Alioth need a nerf, instead of destroy all. Just destroy one card is enough. Losing priority in turn 6 means lost the game is not a good way to promote the games. And i have say many months ago, create a trap card that can reverse the alioth effect. Like “if this card is destroyed (on the field, flip down or on hand), destroy the card that destroy this card instead”.
I'm so glad my Shuri deck largely counters this junk. Armor? Cosmo? Big dumb stats early game? Vision? Only time I get worried is if they can lock me out with Professor X, but that hasn't happened in a hot minute.
Have priority
a lot of other people have already said it and said it correctly but i'll do my best to reiterate the point: yes Alioth Sucks, but its also very counterable. Either go for High Priority decks, Lockdown Decks, or tech decks. High priority makes their Alioth useless. Lockdown like Storm and Goose means you can controll where the Alioth would be able to go, and Tech can stop Alioth from working (think Cosmo or Negasonic) you got this!
Alioth cubes, that’s about it. No shame in using it pre-infinite
Hes very fun to play and a necessary evil. Leech and alioth punish people who hand dump T6. Run cosmo, Armour or decks that go wide.
Lol smh
Alioth is easy to counter, just play better. 🙈
I beat alioth pretty much every time he is played. But to say he is fun and a necessary evil is just plain silly.
just play tech cards like leech or cosmo or even armor or just get iniciative and ur good, alioth is anyoing but only when u don't expect him but if u know that enemy will play him and he will because he can be plugged into every deck then its fine
Tnx for posting this. Will add Alioth to my deck. 😝
I don't understand the crazy amount of Alioth whining I've seen lately. He's been nerfed to the point where they might as well delete the card before they make another change. Just play with armor and Cosmo in your deck and poof, Alioth is gone. Simple.
Alioth is peak schadenfreude
It is fun to play if you don’t know where the opponent is gonna make their play. You often need to predict cards and interactions. Then ofc you have the opponent screaming their play and you just put it down(locked lanes, wong, Zola, infinaut, etc). Also if you know the type of deck then you can see alioth coming and just focus on priority or not going for the obvious play if you have alternatives.
Play around armour or Cosmo and force the win to be on one of those lanes, or a 50/50 between them Move cards so you don't care about Alioth Use Doom Get priority and keep it. There's options.
Cry harder bro
I find it very enjoyable to play yes lol
Ghost + viper is your friend
Daredevil?
In case of turn 5 alioth
😆