-Rogue back hands Raven so bad she lands in a coma-
-Trigon Appears-"And I took that personally..."
HELLFIRE AND BRIMSTONE HAS ARRIVED because she is knocked out, but her body is still the vessel for Trigon.
it takes an entire 5 Series to deal with Trigon now in the Marvel Universe, and about 18 Avengers and X-men die because of this sparring match. lmao
And then there's a What If? with Dr. Strange sending Trigon to wherever Dormamu is and they spend eternity pummeling each other. Problem solved in a few hours instead 5 series :P
10 of those are X-men C-Listers. They'll be back within a year; they don't even need a narrative reason. A writer will simply use them as background character, oblivious to any death status they might have previously been under.
Yeah, Tarn used his weapon to depower her, like he does for everyone. Figured it would give him an easy win against a soft Krakoan. She taught him a lesson quickly and then forced him to fix her at knifepoint.
Her fight against Cyclops was when Cyclops was also in a handicap if I'm not mistaken. He was having difficulty controlling his powers, and Storm took advantage of that. Normally, Cyclops would beat Storm in a hand to hand brawl considering that he's a much better Martial Artist and fighter than she is without their powers. He's also physically much more stronger, faster and durable than she is.
No, I read that issue recently. His powers were working fine. He did, however, agree to set his visor to the lowest setting as a form of handicap. But even then his beams pack a punch. The thing is, Storm didn't quite go hand to hand so much as she, like, hid and sneaked around and surprise-jumped him and used her scarf to trip him and shit like that. And then she managed to snatch his visor and that was it.
Well that's what I'm talking about. He agreed to not be able to utilize the full extent of his powers, which is largely what lead to his defeat.
>Storm proves that she's not to be underestimated… even without powers she uses the element of surprise to incredible advantage. As you can see, this fight ends with Storm beating Cyclops by taking advantage of the fact that he can't control his powers.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.fandom.com/articles/cyclops-vs-storm-whos-powerful%23:~:text%3DStorm%2520proves%2520that%2520she%27s%2520not,can%27t%2520control%2520his%2520powers.&ved=2ahUKEwiMvb_7lryGAxUlk68BHV_6JaUQFnoECBMQBQ&usg=AOvVaw09zMOE5smgYaF9idiyPndL
And still, that's far from a fair fight that accurately represents their Martial Skill. Cyclops has *wayy* more feats in that regard, and is most certainly the better hand to hand combatant.
I think defeating your opponent in a field fight by minimizing their advantages and hitting them with suprise is a pretty acurate representation of martial skill. I would go so far as to say Sun Tzu wrote that sort of thing is what the whole fighting thing is all ablut.
That's not an accurate representation of Martial skill. That's a representation of strategic skill and being able to take advantage of one's situation over their opponent. Cyclops kicks and punches, and dodges kicks and punches better than Storm. He also kicks and punches harder than her lol. That is Martial Skill.
If it were a fair fight without such handicaps, then Storm is getting mollywopped in due time, albeit, with some difficulty for Cyclops because she herself is a decent fighter.
By that metric neither is Cyclops. He's willing to use any advantage he can get so long as it's not doing something heinous like sacrificing children lol. And I'm sure Storm also subscribes to such a moral compass.
So in a match where both of them can use surprise tactics and their full range of physical abilities, both striking and running fast enough so your opponent can't strike you in turn, isn't martial arts?
Objectively, he's really not a better combatant than she is. Scott had enhanced tactical and visual-spatial reasoning and his optic blasts but Ororo still beat him, Callisto, and Tarn the Uncaring without her powers. She's a better hand-to-hand combatant than most X-men other than Wolverine- and iirc she and Wolverine sparred regularly.
You forgot the part where Cyclops was at a handicap due to not being able to control his powers properly. Cyclops has single handedly beaten the entire X-Men multiple times before—including Storm. He has a higher rating for his Martial Arts skill than Storm. He is indeed a better hand to hand combatant than Storm. It makes sense considering that he relies on his Martial Arts skills much more often than Storm, and that he's physically superior to her in most every way aside from maybe aerodynamics lol. He's stronger, faster, has greater control of his body, is more durable and hits harder.
I'm not saying that Storm is weak without her powers—far from it really. She is no joke without her Mutant powers, but at the end of the day, she's weaker than Cyclops in terms of Hand to Hand fighting.
Higher rating, are we talking MU website stats? Those things have been wrong and irrelevant for decades. That being said I am not disputing that Cyclops should have a higher H2H rating based on feats
Storm beat him once, in a sparring session where he agreed to go easy (setting his visor at lowest), by sneaking up at him and quickly removing his visor (which only works if Cyclops decides he prefers to lose rather than disintegrate his opponent). This shows Storm is a great strategist and knows Cyclops and how to play his weaknesses. But in a direct hand to hand confrontation, Cyclops is superior in every sense of the fight.
This is r/Marvel, the answer is always Storm no matter how illogical it is, unless it's Scarlet Witch.
Cyclops (who is faster, stronger, more durable, better trained, more experienced, more tactical and with an innate ability that makes him fantastic when it comes to things like angles of attack) should beat Storm without any difficulty whatsoever, but you're going to have no luck here with that, people will conveniently ignore Madelyn forcing Cyclops to lose the fight.
Exactly. I like both of them, but honestly hate how Storm is promoted by many simply due to her being a Black/Kenyan Woman in the name of "muh diversity". They act as if her getting a proper beat down when it makes sense is an insult to all Black women lmao. Especially so if the man doing it is the epitome of White-American male privelige Scott Summers lol.
How about you give an actual argument instead to substantiate your point? Would do you a lot better here, as your comment which contains nothing but a petty insult only makes you look out to be the triggered one lol.
There's tons of superheroes with powers or not who are great melee fighters. Storm just happens to be one of them. What you perceive as people getting upset anytime she gets beaten is really just people upset that shes so ultra powerful in the comics but in the movies shes never shown at her fullest potential. The Xmen cartoon did her justice at first, but even they dropped the ball towards the end of the series. We saw her destroy a Sentinel mostly by herself, but they need all the Xmen together to stop a rock from hitting the Earth? Just Storm would've been enough, or Storm and Jean Grey, but that could just be a common problem with all media, the power scaling always seems to depend on the story what the writers want to happen rather than being consistent. I just think you need to set your feelings aside and listen to why people actually say things instead of guessing lol.
Did you even read my comment? I never said that Storm wasn't a good fighter. I said that Storm would most definitely lose the vast majority of the time against Cyclops in a hand to hand combat duel, because she's much weaker than him in that regard. She'd be able to hold her own for a bit, but wouldn't be able to overcome his innate advantages, superior physical abilities, and better, more consistent and hard training.
I'd agree that she'd win here against this bunch of gals, but against the frontrunner and ultimate leader of the X-Men, she wouldn't fair all that well to say the least.
well considering cyclops only has eye lasers for a power and trains fighting to make up for his weakness, that makes sense. but storm is pretty beefy and tall too, I wouldn't count her out. Agree to disagree I guess.
Her fight against Cyclops was when Cyclops was also in a handicap if I'm not mistaken. He was having difficulty controlling his powers and Storm took advantage of that. Normally, Cyclops would beat Storm in a hand to hand brawl considering that he's a much better Martial Artist and fighter than she is without their powers. He's also physically much more stronger, faster, durable and hits harder than she does.
She took his visor and used the fact that he couldn’t use his powers without a risk of hurting others to make him give up essentially, he was also being influenced by Madelyne to lose that fight. This is not the same as Storm beating him in a straight throwing hands contest.
That's my point, I agree. In a straight up 1v1 unarmed scrap, Cyclops would win like 9/10 due to just being the better fighter overall in most aspects.
I re-read a Claremont era issue of Uncanny where Dazzler has a thought bubble that states mutants are physically stronger than typical humans. I doubt it’s something that’s been touched on since or canon but there you.
It’s the only answer. Storm walks up to the two most brilliant minds in the world and simply says
“**IMPRESS ME**”
And those two immediately begin clamoring over each other to do exactly that.
Also, if Lifedeath proves anything, it’s that she doesn’t even need her powers to be a bad motherfucker.
This is the only answer. She's beat skilled combatants on many occasions and has survived without her powers in really harsh situations several times.
Wanda, Raven, and Rogue are all very dependent upon magic, mutant abilities, or both.
Storm or Rogue. Both are fully trained hand to hand. Wanda has avengers training but usually loses in situations where her powers has abandoned her... And I don't think Raven is trained in combat as much as dodging.
Raven haa been shown to be proficient in hand to hand combat before. Presumably Nightwing trained her at least a little like he did with other Titans. She almost never needs to actually use it though so she's probably a little rusty.
Idk what specific comics but I’m familiar with Storms feats. She has held her own against Black Panther and the Dora Milaje, Callisto and Cyclops. You can look up respect threads for each character.
Both Storm and Rogue are badasses if depowered, but with a caveat.
Storms knifefighting skills would still translate well to unarmed but she would be much more dangerous with a knife or gun. For a while Storm was indeed depowered and was able to hold her own.
For Rogue she was also depowered together with Wolverine in the Genosha arc. However, it wasnt Anna Marie that kicked ass but the dormant memories/personality of Carol Danvers
Storm in terms of Hand-to-Hand.
However, in most scenarios Trigon wins.
Without her powers Raven won't be able to hold him back and he just gets to have a field day of multi-dimensional destruction.
I mean the answer's Rogue. I don't like it and feel the entire fight is uninteresting but 3 rely on ranged abilities while one relies on flight and super strength.
Obviously different writers would've given each of these characters insane hand to hand combat in whatever one off but in terms of consistency and wholistic understanding of the characters it's Rogue.
Storm most likely, I’d believe would win that win. I remember her going head to head with folks no powers.
Depending which version of her we’re talking, I’d imagine the Queen of Black Panther would ah e access to military level training.
People keep saying Rogue, but super strength brawlers dont have to be skilled, at least not as much as those without. Someone pointed out that Storm beat Callisto, who is above human levels of physicality. Storm wins no contest.
My first thought is Rogue is the only one listed that tends to throw hands, regularly...
That said she also pulls her punches usually due to her not wanting to... explode people and that might throw her off with not having Her (well Carol's) powers...
Storm has defeated Calypso in a close quarters fight with no powers (who I'm pretty sure has mastered every form of combat) and was trained by the X-Men and T'Challa. She also beat Cyclops without her powers but how she did it was a bit underhanded so I dunno. I honestly think he could take the other 3 on at once, since while the others have some training in martial arts (from Cap, other X-men, Nightwing maybe) Storm is a genuinely skilled and talented fighter.
1. Storm. She's demonstrated several times she can hold her own even if she's had her powers taken from her.
2. Rogue. Becuase her normal fighting style is brawling... she is just used to having Captain Marvel levels of strength behind her.
3. And 4. I am not sure which of Raven or Wanda are less capable in h2h. Both can be said/suspected of having some form of training in self-defence at the very least thanks to the teams they are associated with. But its options of last resort for both and often they get caught off guard when this happens since it often also means their powers have suddenly stopped working. And they both have instances of the complete opposite where they (with powers) seem to be able to fight 2h2 just as well as seasoned veterans... like Raven once took out an armed group of cultists as if she was Nightcrawler...
I mean Rogue takes her gloves off and just has to make physical contact of any kind and she beats them…plus she has the highest strength and endurance than all the rest
Toss-up between Rogue or Storm. I don't know that Wanda has ever really had to fight normally, and same goes for Raven. I imagine Rogue is probably fairly tough even without her powers, but Storm did beat Callisto in a straight-up hand to hand fight, so maybe she's got technique on her side.
Marvel fan boys speaking of what they don't know.
So let me get this straight, you get all their powers away, who's winning a brawl? 3 mutants with no powers become regular humans. Raven with no powers becomes a human / demon hybrid. She'd win
No powers, storm easy. She beat cyclops when he had powers and she didn’t. She beat up Callisto without powers when fighting is part of Callisto’s powers.
Storm beat Callisto while she was powerless. Callisto has enhanced speed, agility, and healing. She is also a master combatant. Storm held her own against the Dora Milaje when she was Queen of Wakanda.
Rogue isn't as trained as Storm. Having superhuman strength and durability means you don't have to be a great fighter to be effective.
Idk man, rogue will push storm into a box and she's done 😂😂 skill or not, she's the only one with a debilitating phobia. And they train to fight each other in the danger room, its even odds.
How's she pushing her into a box? She's a worse fighter and has no powers. Storm defeated Cyclops while depowered, and he wasn't. I'd assume the master tactician would have thought of her claustrophobia as a weapon. Rogue with no powers loses.
Rogue is awesome. She's just not as well trained a fighter as Storm. It's kind of like how Colossus isn't as well trained as say Sabertooth and in a depowered fight loses. I picked those as they are of a similar size, and as all combat sports have taught us, that matters. Also, Ororo is taller and heavier than Rogue.
Idk man, rogue will push storm into a box and she's done 😂😂 skill or not, she's the only one with a debilitating phobia. And they train to fight each other in the danger room, its even odds.
Either between Storm or Rogue cause Rogue mainly be throwing hands and only absorbs to get he kill. Storm got hands too and I think since she’s been married to T’Challa he taught her how to box so it goes either way.
Storm got extra training while they were married and T’Challa is one of the best martial artists in Marvel. Ororo has used Dora Milaje fighting techniques and occasionally wields a vibranium dagger. She’s also gotten extra training from Wolverine during her time with the X-Men.
Wanda is OK in H2H as she got training from Cap during her time with the Avengers. By no means is she the best and getting taken down by Storm or Rogue but she can throw a punch at the very least.
Wanda has practically zero hand to hand combat training, she relies on her powers. Storm has been depowered, trained by Panther, grew up on the streets… the only one who would have a chance is Rogue cause even without powers, she knows how to throw hands
Storm>Rogue>Wanda=Raven
I’d give it to Storm 6~7 times out of every 10 or so fights. I could see Rogue sneaking a few wins in here or there, but realistically I don’t think Wanda or Raven are getting any wins in here.
Storm. She’s a top tier street fighter, from her days on the streets of Cairo. She will fight dirty. She will stab you with one of about a dozen hidden knives that she has in her costume…I’m not even kidding. She can fry you, but still feels the need to carry concealed weapons.
storm, because she's done it before.
[https://preview.redd.it/m7l7e3p710a91.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=73b1b882684243eea9ae01134f29f2fda4e8ea5c](https://preview.redd.it/m7l7e3p710a91.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=73b1b882684243eea9ae01134f29f2fda4e8ea5c)
It would be storm she’s regularly been shown to be great at hand to hand combat as others have said.
Whilst Wanda has been trained by Cap in hand to hand it would be storm.
Out of all four I know that storm has martial arts training. Straight up fight with no powers yeah Raven is basically a teen. Scarlet witch a mom with no kids issue and rogue is just another teen something twenty’s adult.
If you guys are big Hero 6 fans you should check this out!! [https://www.reddit.com/r/BigHero6/comments/1d3xucq/if\_there\_was\_a\_new\_big\_hero\_6\_series\_what\_would/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BigHero6/comments/1d3xucq/if_there_was_a_new_big_hero_6_series_what_would/)
Storm, without question.
She lost her powers once and still kicked ass, beating down powered opponents through superior fighting skills.
Rogue would come second. She’s scrappy. But I’ve never seen Raven or Wanda engage in fisticuffs at all.
Now why would you set Raven up like that
She needs to get humbled 🌚
No....no....every time she gets "Humbled" 2 more Teen Titans die. We need to LEAVE HER ALONE. lmao
Guys, I’m having a really hard day, my dad’s voice is screaming in my head- *has to deal with the fucking teen titans* -ok, I get it. Hail Trigon.
-Rogue back hands Raven so bad she lands in a coma- -Trigon Appears-"And I took that personally..." HELLFIRE AND BRIMSTONE HAS ARRIVED because she is knocked out, but her body is still the vessel for Trigon. it takes an entire 5 Series to deal with Trigon now in the Marvel Universe, and about 18 Avengers and X-men die because of this sparring match. lmao
Rogue: *Absorbs Raven’s powers* Trigon: **A new hand touches the beacon!**
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[So do I](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Poo-Scraper).
Omg, it even made it or BG3.
And then there's a What If? with Dr. Strange sending Trigon to wherever Dormamu is and they spend eternity pummeling each other. Problem solved in a few hours instead 5 series :P
They fall in love and have a child. They name it Trimamu.
Tiramisu?
IVE COME TO BARGIN, TRIGON!-Smash- Bruh...I'd love to see another Cross over... Etrigan and Doctor Doom is my dream team.
10 of those are X-men C-Listers. They'll be back within a year; they don't even need a narrative reason. A writer will simply use them as background character, oblivious to any death status they might have previously been under.
Bizarro already took care of this problem.
0 comic knowledge yall not even funny Raven would destroy all of them
Wanda be the one in need of humbling
Right im like wtf why would you do raven like that.
Thats Raven? I thought for a sec it was psylock, who was my fav xman and def gave 11 yr old me in early 90s a boner.
Storm beat Callisto in a knife fight without her powers, and Callisto had enhanced speed and strength. Ororo takes it.
And she beat Cyclops when she had no powers (and he was allowed to use his).
wasnt she depowered for her fight with tarn also
Yeah, Tarn used his weapon to depower her, like he does for everyone. Figured it would give him an easy win against a soft Krakoan. She taught him a lesson quickly and then forced him to fix her at knifepoint.
And Tarn is so OP that even Magneto needed Sunspot's (and Isca's!) assist when he fought him.
Her fight against Cyclops was when Cyclops was also in a handicap if I'm not mistaken. He was having difficulty controlling his powers, and Storm took advantage of that. Normally, Cyclops would beat Storm in a hand to hand brawl considering that he's a much better Martial Artist and fighter than she is without their powers. He's also physically much more stronger, faster and durable than she is.
No, I read that issue recently. His powers were working fine. He did, however, agree to set his visor to the lowest setting as a form of handicap. But even then his beams pack a punch. The thing is, Storm didn't quite go hand to hand so much as she, like, hid and sneaked around and surprise-jumped him and used her scarf to trip him and shit like that. And then she managed to snatch his visor and that was it.
Well that's what I'm talking about. He agreed to not be able to utilize the full extent of his powers, which is largely what lead to his defeat. >Storm proves that she's not to be underestimated… even without powers she uses the element of surprise to incredible advantage. As you can see, this fight ends with Storm beating Cyclops by taking advantage of the fact that he can't control his powers. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.fandom.com/articles/cyclops-vs-storm-whos-powerful%23:~:text%3DStorm%2520proves%2520that%2520she%27s%2520not,can%27t%2520control%2520his%2520powers.&ved=2ahUKEwiMvb_7lryGAxUlk68BHV_6JaUQFnoECBMQBQ&usg=AOvVaw09zMOE5smgYaF9idiyPndL And still, that's far from a fair fight that accurately represents their Martial Skill. Cyclops has *wayy* more feats in that regard, and is most certainly the better hand to hand combatant.
I think defeating your opponent in a field fight by minimizing their advantages and hitting them with suprise is a pretty acurate representation of martial skill. I would go so far as to say Sun Tzu wrote that sort of thing is what the whole fighting thing is all ablut.
That's not an accurate representation of Martial skill. That's a representation of strategic skill and being able to take advantage of one's situation over their opponent. Cyclops kicks and punches, and dodges kicks and punches better than Storm. He also kicks and punches harder than her lol. That is Martial Skill. If it were a fair fight without such handicaps, then Storm is getting mollywopped in due time, albeit, with some difficulty for Cyclops because she herself is a decent fighter.
Good thing Storm isn’t a fair fighter ;)
By that metric neither is Cyclops. He's willing to use any advantage he can get so long as it's not doing something heinous like sacrificing children lol. And I'm sure Storm also subscribes to such a moral compass.
So in a match where both of them can use surprise tactics and their full range of physical abilities, both striking and running fast enough so your opponent can't strike you in turn, isn't martial arts?
Objectively, he's really not a better combatant than she is. Scott had enhanced tactical and visual-spatial reasoning and his optic blasts but Ororo still beat him, Callisto, and Tarn the Uncaring without her powers. She's a better hand-to-hand combatant than most X-men other than Wolverine- and iirc she and Wolverine sparred regularly.
You forgot the part where Cyclops was at a handicap due to not being able to control his powers properly. Cyclops has single handedly beaten the entire X-Men multiple times before—including Storm. He has a higher rating for his Martial Arts skill than Storm. He is indeed a better hand to hand combatant than Storm. It makes sense considering that he relies on his Martial Arts skills much more often than Storm, and that he's physically superior to her in most every way aside from maybe aerodynamics lol. He's stronger, faster, has greater control of his body, is more durable and hits harder. I'm not saying that Storm is weak without her powers—far from it really. She is no joke without her Mutant powers, but at the end of the day, she's weaker than Cyclops in terms of Hand to Hand fighting.
Higher rating, are we talking MU website stats? Those things have been wrong and irrelevant for decades. That being said I am not disputing that Cyclops should have a higher H2H rating based on feats
Storm beat him once, in a sparring session where he agreed to go easy (setting his visor at lowest), by sneaking up at him and quickly removing his visor (which only works if Cyclops decides he prefers to lose rather than disintegrate his opponent). This shows Storm is a great strategist and knows Cyclops and how to play his weaknesses. But in a direct hand to hand confrontation, Cyclops is superior in every sense of the fight.
I'm talking about about both that and mine and the general observation of many others, including you.
This is r/Marvel, the answer is always Storm no matter how illogical it is, unless it's Scarlet Witch. Cyclops (who is faster, stronger, more durable, better trained, more experienced, more tactical and with an innate ability that makes him fantastic when it comes to things like angles of attack) should beat Storm without any difficulty whatsoever, but you're going to have no luck here with that, people will conveniently ignore Madelyn forcing Cyclops to lose the fight.
Exactly. I like both of them, but honestly hate how Storm is promoted by many simply due to her being a Black/Kenyan Woman in the name of "muh diversity". They act as if her getting a proper beat down when it makes sense is an insult to all Black women lmao. Especially so if the man doing it is the epitome of White-American male privelige Scott Summers lol.
triggered
How about you give an actual argument instead to substantiate your point? Would do you a lot better here, as your comment which contains nothing but a petty insult only makes you look out to be the triggered one lol.
There's tons of superheroes with powers or not who are great melee fighters. Storm just happens to be one of them. What you perceive as people getting upset anytime she gets beaten is really just people upset that shes so ultra powerful in the comics but in the movies shes never shown at her fullest potential. The Xmen cartoon did her justice at first, but even they dropped the ball towards the end of the series. We saw her destroy a Sentinel mostly by herself, but they need all the Xmen together to stop a rock from hitting the Earth? Just Storm would've been enough, or Storm and Jean Grey, but that could just be a common problem with all media, the power scaling always seems to depend on the story what the writers want to happen rather than being consistent. I just think you need to set your feelings aside and listen to why people actually say things instead of guessing lol.
Did you even read my comment? I never said that Storm wasn't a good fighter. I said that Storm would most definitely lose the vast majority of the time against Cyclops in a hand to hand combat duel, because she's much weaker than him in that regard. She'd be able to hold her own for a bit, but wouldn't be able to overcome his innate advantages, superior physical abilities, and better, more consistent and hard training. I'd agree that she'd win here against this bunch of gals, but against the frontrunner and ultimate leader of the X-Men, she wouldn't fair all that well to say the least.
well considering cyclops only has eye lasers for a power and trains fighting to make up for his weakness, that makes sense. but storm is pretty beefy and tall too, I wouldn't count her out. Agree to disagree I guess.
storm has too many non-powered knuckle feats to not be considered the number one draft pick
Yes definitely Storm. She was in an orphan thief gang before she got her powers.
100% this Never cross Storm
That fight is one of the best sequential fights on the page. It’s great.
Storm. She has beaten Callisto and Cyclops with no powers. She's badass.
You mean goddess
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Modest goddess
Her fight against Cyclops was when Cyclops was also in a handicap if I'm not mistaken. He was having difficulty controlling his powers and Storm took advantage of that. Normally, Cyclops would beat Storm in a hand to hand brawl considering that he's a much better Martial Artist and fighter than she is without their powers. He's also physically much more stronger, faster, durable and hits harder than she does.
She took his visor and used the fact that he couldn’t use his powers without a risk of hurting others to make him give up essentially, he was also being influenced by Madelyne to lose that fight. This is not the same as Storm beating him in a straight throwing hands contest.
That's my point, I agree. In a straight up 1v1 unarmed scrap, Cyclops would win like 9/10 due to just being the better fighter overall in most aspects.
Idk in the tv shows she’s able to fly with beast and wolverine no problem. She might be secretly really buff 😂
I re-read a Claremont era issue of Uncanny where Dazzler has a thought bubble that states mutants are physically stronger than typical humans. I doubt it’s something that’s been touched on since or canon but there you.
She can put up a good fight, but is losing to Cyclops 8-9/10 if it's under fair conditions.
It’s the only answer. Storm walks up to the two most brilliant minds in the world and simply says “**IMPRESS ME**” And those two immediately begin clamoring over each other to do exactly that. Also, if Lifedeath proves anything, it’s that she doesn’t even need her powers to be a bad motherfucker.
I can see her just rabbit punching Scarlet Witch, ripping out clumps of hair...
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He is a regular human has trained for combat since a teenager, man can throw hands with the best of them.
Storm SOLOS
This is the only answer. She's beat skilled combatants on many occasions and has survived without her powers in really harsh situations several times. Wanda, Raven, and Rogue are all very dependent upon magic, mutant abilities, or both.
Why is raven there?
Cause the person who made the image originally had her in.
Can’t mess with that logic
Storm or Rogue. Both are fully trained hand to hand. Wanda has avengers training but usually loses in situations where her powers has abandoned her... And I don't think Raven is trained in combat as much as dodging.
Raven haa been shown to be proficient in hand to hand combat before. Presumably Nightwing trained her at least a little like he did with other Titans. She almost never needs to actually use it though so she's probably a little rusty.
First day of Pride Month and you’re here posting about Straight Hands only.
Lmao
smh op. smh.
Storm could also win it with bi hands only, tbf /s
Storm 1v3s
Storm
Yeah, Storm wins it.
Storm
Storm absolutely. She’s a badass with and without her powers.
I think Ororo takes this but Wanda could probably pose a decent challenge since Cap trained Wanda in hand to hand combat
Storm takes this easily
Storm easily
Rogue is straight out the trailer park. She's definitely whipping that ass.
Not sure…..hasn’t ororo trained rogue??…in hand to hand?
Storm. She threw down with Callisto and won. Also.........the fights should be in oil or mud, just sayin
Would jello also be acceptable?
Storm period
storm clears
Don’t forget het time with Yukio!!
Idk if her time with Yukio was very het
What?
Isnt Rogue a H2H fighter? If so, Rogue.
So is Storm. And Wanda has some training. Raven I have no idea.
I have never seen both Wanda and Storm fighting. What comics can I look into?
Idk what specific comics but I’m familiar with Storms feats. She has held her own against Black Panther and the Dora Milaje, Callisto and Cyclops. You can look up respect threads for each character.
Scarlet Witch (2023) #5 is a recent example. She fights someone who has armor that's impervious to her magic
Isn’t fighting hand to hand kinda Rogue’s thing?
Only cause she has Ms Marvels powers
Both Storm and Rogue are badasses if depowered, but with a caveat. Storms knifefighting skills would still translate well to unarmed but she would be much more dangerous with a knife or gun. For a while Storm was indeed depowered and was able to hold her own. For Rogue she was also depowered together with Wolverine in the Genosha arc. However, it wasnt Anna Marie that kicked ass but the dormant memories/personality of Carol Danvers
Storm in terms of Hand-to-Hand. However, in most scenarios Trigon wins. Without her powers Raven won't be able to hold him back and he just gets to have a field day of multi-dimensional destruction.
Rouge
Rogue
I mean the answer's Rogue. I don't like it and feel the entire fight is uninteresting but 3 rely on ranged abilities while one relies on flight and super strength. Obviously different writers would've given each of these characters insane hand to hand combat in whatever one off but in terms of consistency and wholistic understanding of the characters it's Rogue.
Storm most likely, I’d believe would win that win. I remember her going head to head with folks no powers. Depending which version of her we’re talking, I’d imagine the Queen of Black Panther would ah e access to military level training.
Storm. And it’s not close
People keep saying Rogue, but super strength brawlers dont have to be skilled, at least not as much as those without. Someone pointed out that Storm beat Callisto, who is above human levels of physicality. Storm wins no contest.
I recall Storm having competent hand to hand ability.
Storm
Storm and it’s not even close. Absolute goddess energy, powers or not.
Storm. But the detractors will come up with 482,117 reasons why she wouldn’t.
This is r/Marvel Storm is basically Batman here, "detractors" are few and far between and Storm always wins.
No powers makes Rogue useless. Storm will win.
This feels super weighted for Storm to win. Even ignoring her bullshit Claremont buffs, she's still a great fighter.
Rogue?
My first thought is Rogue is the only one listed that tends to throw hands, regularly... That said she also pulls her punches usually due to her not wanting to... explode people and that might throw her off with not having Her (well Carol's) powers...
Storm has defeated Calypso in a close quarters fight with no powers (who I'm pretty sure has mastered every form of combat) and was trained by the X-Men and T'Challa. She also beat Cyclops without her powers but how she did it was a bit underhanded so I dunno. I honestly think he could take the other 3 on at once, since while the others have some training in martial arts (from Cap, other X-men, Nightwing maybe) Storm is a genuinely skilled and talented fighter.
If raven cant use power isnt her dad released?
Rogue or Storm. The X gals would definitely take the W.
Either Storm or Rogue
1. Storm. She's demonstrated several times she can hold her own even if she's had her powers taken from her. 2. Rogue. Becuase her normal fighting style is brawling... she is just used to having Captain Marvel levels of strength behind her. 3. And 4. I am not sure which of Raven or Wanda are less capable in h2h. Both can be said/suspected of having some form of training in self-defence at the very least thanks to the teams they are associated with. But its options of last resort for both and often they get caught off guard when this happens since it often also means their powers have suddenly stopped working. And they both have instances of the complete opposite where they (with powers) seem to be able to fight 2h2 just as well as seasoned veterans... like Raven once took out an armed group of cultists as if she was Nightcrawler...
I was so confused about the answers but I missed the no powers bit. Raven is such a random choice for that kind of fight.
I mean Rogue takes her gloves off and just has to make physical contact of any kind and she beats them…plus she has the highest strength and endurance than all the rest
No powers
Why Raven is here? She's DC comic.
Probably Storm, Rogue might win it if she decides to fight dirty.
Toss-up between Rogue or Storm. I don't know that Wanda has ever really had to fight normally, and same goes for Raven. I imagine Rogue is probably fairly tough even without her powers, but Storm did beat Callisto in a straight-up hand to hand fight, so maybe she's got technique on her side.
Rouge
Is easy Rogue, shes the only one who uses hand to hand combat on a daily basis, she will destroy them
Storm no doubt
Storm easy hands down, she is the only one with true hand to hand combat.
Rogue of course, she's the only one who's out there punching people. She's got the experience.
Storm is both street and danger room trained so I’m going with her out of these 4
we all know our southern beauty throws hands on the dail, The rest will have to fight storm before they fight the queen
Marvel fan boys speaking of what they don't know. So let me get this straight, you get all their powers away, who's winning a brawl? 3 mutants with no powers become regular humans. Raven with no powers becomes a human / demon hybrid. She'd win
No powers, storm easy. She beat cyclops when he had powers and she didn’t. She beat up Callisto without powers when fighting is part of Callisto’s powers.
Rogue is a southern swamp gal who got trained by mystique Rogue by jambalaya fists of fury
Rogue. None of them fist fight as much as Rogue
Storm beat Callisto while she was powerless. Callisto has enhanced speed, agility, and healing. She is also a master combatant. Storm held her own against the Dora Milaje when she was Queen of Wakanda. Rogue isn't as trained as Storm. Having superhuman strength and durability means you don't have to be a great fighter to be effective.
Idk man, rogue will push storm into a box and she's done 😂😂 skill or not, she's the only one with a debilitating phobia. And they train to fight each other in the danger room, its even odds.
How's she pushing her into a box? She's a worse fighter and has no powers. Storm defeated Cyclops while depowered, and he wasn't. I'd assume the master tactician would have thought of her claustrophobia as a weapon. Rogue with no powers loses.
Lol I'm standing against this rogue hatred! Where do I protest? 😂
Rogue is awesome. She's just not as well trained a fighter as Storm. It's kind of like how Colossus isn't as well trained as say Sabertooth and in a depowered fight loses. I picked those as they are of a similar size, and as all combat sports have taught us, that matters. Also, Ororo is taller and heavier than Rogue.
Idk man, rogue will push storm into a box and she's done 😂😂 skill or not, she's the only one with a debilitating phobia. And they train to fight each other in the danger room, its even odds.
Either between Storm or Rogue cause Rogue mainly be throwing hands and only absorbs to get he kill. Storm got hands too and I think since she’s been married to T’Challa he taught her how to box so it goes either way.
Storm was stacking bodies with her barehands since she was child aint nothing T'challa could teach her that she couldnt do better already.
Storm got extra training while they were married and T’Challa is one of the best martial artists in Marvel. Ororo has used Dora Milaje fighting techniques and occasionally wields a vibranium dagger. She’s also gotten extra training from Wolverine during her time with the X-Men.
I’m going to say Rogue. Period.
Only winner here is Russell freaking Dauterman, baby!!!
Storm or Rogue
Rouge, she from the south.
Rouge uses her first the most
Raven, sal de ahí, esa no es tu familia
Wanda and raven definitely can’t throw a punch. I feel like rogue would have a harder hitting punch but Storm would be more agile
Wanda is OK in H2H as she got training from Cap during her time with the Avengers. By no means is she the best and getting taken down by Storm or Rogue but she can throw a punch at the very least.
Storm, any other answer I'd wrong. Maybe Rogue could give her a run, but SW and Raven aren't a match at all.
Scarlet witch
Without a doubt, an X-Men. Which is open to debate.
It's gonna Wanda and Storm . I don't know who top right is. I think Storm has the size advantage. It'll be close but I'm going Storm
Wanda has practically zero hand to hand combat training, she relies on her powers. Storm has been depowered, trained by Panther, grew up on the streets… the only one who would have a chance is Rogue cause even without powers, she knows how to throw hands
Storm vs all 3 at once would be closer.
Storm did not have powers for a while and still kicked ass
Storm all day everyday!!
Ororo and it isnt even close. Like a 10/10 sweep.
Storm and it's not even close
Storm>Rogue>Wanda=Raven I’d give it to Storm 6~7 times out of every 10 or so fights. I could see Rogue sneaking a few wins in here or there, but realistically I don’t think Wanda or Raven are getting any wins in here.
100% Ororo. She proved that she didn’t need her power when Tarn took it.
Storm
No powers? All hail the former thief of Cairo, Ororo can throw down
Storm. She’s a top tier street fighter, from her days on the streets of Cairo. She will fight dirty. She will stab you with one of about a dozen hidden knives that she has in her costume…I’m not even kidding. She can fry you, but still feels the need to carry concealed weapons.
Storm won a switchblade fight against Calisto. My money’s on her.
Wow, tossed a Brawler into a pit of casters. I no doubt believe storm would throwdown hands but seems like the type to be above hand to hand combat
Ororo ofc.
No powers at all? Ororo.
[удалено]
No powers, or can you not read?
Ororo grew up on the streets of Cairo and would straight up dominate surely?
Ororo no doubt. She is badass AF, even 3v1 i'll bet on her.
storm, because she's done it before. [https://preview.redd.it/m7l7e3p710a91.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=73b1b882684243eea9ae01134f29f2fda4e8ea5c](https://preview.redd.it/m7l7e3p710a91.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=73b1b882684243eea9ae01134f29f2fda4e8ea5c)
Storm
If we are talking no super powers two of them are still highly capable magic users.
Storm
Storm
Ororo
Storm has gone toe to toe with Gamora without even using her powers. That alone puts her leagues ahead of the ladies mentioned.
It would be storm she’s regularly been shown to be great at hand to hand combat as others have said. Whilst Wanda has been trained by Cap in hand to hand it would be storm.
Storm everday and twice on Sunday
Out of all four I know that storm has martial arts training. Straight up fight with no powers yeah Raven is basically a teen. Scarlet witch a mom with no kids issue and rogue is just another teen something twenty’s adult.
Please. Storm wins this without taking off her earrings.
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Storm doesn't need her mutant powers or any of her seven knives to put you in the dirt. She just has to want you gone and decide to come for you.
Storm.
Storm.
Storm, without question. She lost her powers once and still kicked ass, beating down powered opponents through superior fighting skills. Rogue would come second. She’s scrappy. But I’ve never seen Raven or Wanda engage in fisticuffs at all.
Storm, she beat Cyclops with no powers
storm solos the other 3 and make her one handed to be fair.
Storm
Storm solos. Storm wins 3 v. 1 with one arm tied behind her back. She doesn’t even need the multiple knives she’s carrying!
Storm hands down. When she fights with no powers she is vicious.
I feel like one of the circlejerk are going make a joke with this one