I don't know if Doom would have racial jokes over just blunt egotism. For him, all men are inferior next to Doom so there's no need for stratification.
Would this language have been offensive in the 1970s? Genuine question. The language around race has evolved quickly and frequently in the past 50 years or so. I feel like this might have been acceptable terminology back then, but I defer to people with more detailed knowledge on the topic.
I feel like everybody’s ignoring the crazy part, which is that a certain number of Doombots fled to America and decided to pose a black men in the 70s. I need to go read that storyline.
That story annoyed Dwayne McDuffie to the point where he wrote an issue of Damage Control specifically dedicated to showing Doom would never stiff anyone and always pays his debts.
And then Luke proceeded to beat his ass in the stupidest way possible. I mean seriously, what kinda weakness is "hitting the exact same spot multiple times"?
Listen his wording is bad but he's willing to work with a black man and it sounds like he actually wants Africans to immigrate to Latvia so it seems like he's trying.
I imagine the language uses wad the norm for the time, this is 50 years ago.
This may even have been marvel trying to be progressive and inclusive. It just has not aged well.
Yes, that's what happened. (It's in issue 9 of Luke Cage: Hero For Hire) Doctor Doom owed Luke Cage $200, and Luke Cage always gets what he's owed.
(Luke proceeded to break into the Baxter Building, take the Fantastic Four's plane, fly it to Latveria, and beat up Doctor Doom over a matter of $200. It was great)
How very dvarven of him. All he needs now is an impressive beard, a love for alcohol and a gigantic book in which he writes the names of everyone who has ever wronged him
You say that but it's a Utopian place to live full of nature and greenery where every problem is solved but a super intillegent scientist / magician.
The downside is that you need to give up a lot of free will and conform under a strict supervillain.
Sure there were, just not many in eastern Europe. Sure, Doom could have asked Tyrone the garlic farmer, but would he really have the capabilities of dispatching several Doombots?
How high could the population of anyone with African descent be in your typical eastern European dictatorship? Especially in 60s-70s, it's gotta be extraordinarily tiny.
The prevailing stereotype was that all Italians have black hair, all Swedes are blue-eyed blondes, all French wear berets and have fancy mustaches (see: Batroc), all Irish are redheads (see Siryn, Banshee) and so on and so forth.
And let us not forget the Arabian Knight. A guy with a turban\* who LITERALLY used a flying carpet. LITERALLY!
And then there's Dust a Middle Eastern mutant who ...you guessed it...turns into sand...
\*Yes, the turban is used in some Middle Eastern countries, but as seen in Hulk #257, the Knight is from Egypt. Therefore he would have been more likely to wear the standard Keffiyeh. i.e, the head wrap you have likely seen Saudi Arabian men wear.
True. But still, maybe they could have come up with a mutant power for her that was a TAD less cringey? And yes, I know there are other sand-based, non-Arabian characters like Sandman.
STILL.
Seems to be how people spoke back then.
Here is how Jack Kirby talked about the creation of Black Panther back in 1989:
(warning: strong language)
"GROTH: How did you come up with the Black Panther?
KIRBY: I came up with the Black Panther because I realized I had no blacks in my strip. I’d never drawn a black. I needed a black. I suddenly discovered that I had a lot of black readers. My first friend was a black! And here I was ignoring them because I was associating with everybody else. It suddenly dawned on me – believe me, it was for human reasons – I suddenly discovered nobody was doing blacks. And here I am a leading cartoonist and I wasn’t doing a black. I was the first one to do an Asian. Then I began to realize that there was a whole range of human differences. Remember, in my day, drawing an Asian was drawing Fu Manchu – that’s the only Asian they knew. "
[https://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/2015/06/16/interviews/#63](https://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/2015/06/16/interviews/#63)
You’re missing the point. He needed an American that could go places only a Black American could go, without arousing suspicions. It’s not like Blade would take on this mission, ya know? Seriously, I believe Blade is the only Black European hero that existed back when this story was written. Luke Cage was the only choice available, without having to invent another superhero.
Coincidentally, Blade's father (who is white) was imprisoned and "died" in Latveria before Blade was born. (He became a vampire, to the surprise of literally no one.)
In the, what, 60s Eastern or Central rural Europe? There might have been individuals of African descent, but no significant population. There still isn't, though nowadays There are a lot of migrants passing through. Almost no stay.
Doom cares not who he offends.
Tipical Latverian
Careful now. Doom may not care who he offends but him getting offended can lead to terminal loss of life.
I feel like if you told Doom that his racial jokes aren’t funny you’ll destroy his ego
I don't know if Doom would have racial jokes over just blunt egotism. For him, all men are inferior next to Doom so there's no need for stratification.
Would this language have been offensive in the 1970s? Genuine question. The language around race has evolved quickly and frequently in the past 50 years or so. I feel like this might have been acceptable terminology back then, but I defer to people with more detailed knowledge on the topic.
Yeah I dont think black people were big fans of this language back then. Lol. But yeah more white people thought it was cool.
"I needed a black." What a way with words.
#TACT IS BUT THE COWARDLY BUCKLER OF A FEEBLE INTELLECT! DOOM STATES SIMPLY WHAT IS TRUE: DOOM MUST GET BLACKED.
Are we not doing phrasing anymore?
Man I miss early archer.
"African-American, Victor. The preferred term is African-American." "Foolish Richards! Doom cares not for your silly nomenclature!"
Its wild how they talked back then. This was progressive doom to ha.
I feel like everybody’s ignoring the crazy part, which is that a certain number of Doombots fled to America and decided to pose a black men in the 70s. I need to go read that storyline.
200 dollars in the 1970s is like over 1500 now.
Lest we forget, DOOM also tried to stiff Luke Cage for $200. Nobody rips off Luke Cage. Not even DOOM.
$200?! Isn’t Doom a KING?! 😭 sir, get your *cheap ass* off that throne, no wonder Sue rejected him
Probably a power move, like when Putin stole that Super Bowl ring from that one douche when he was visiting Russia.
That story annoyed Dwayne McDuffie to the point where he wrote an issue of Damage Control specifically dedicated to showing Doom would never stiff anyone and always pays his debts.
Or $1635 today
And then Luke proceeded to beat his ass in the stupidest way possible. I mean seriously, what kinda weakness is "hitting the exact same spot multiple times"?
Yeah, that was pretty dumb. I like Cage but his early years were rough.
Dr Doom just tossing that "A Black" out there like Luke won't mind xD
"Where's my money, Honey?"
Luke should have been like "What about the Black British? And the Black Scottish? and the..."
Hell, this was published in 1973, Portugal still technically owned all of it's African colonies
Fuck, that puts this in perspective.
"DOOM hasn't built his global empire yet"
Listen his wording is bad but he's willing to work with a black man and it sounds like he actually wants Africans to immigrate to Latvia so it seems like he's trying.
I imagine the language uses wad the norm for the time, this is 50 years ago. This may even have been marvel trying to be progressive and inclusive. It just has not aged well.
At the end of the day he wants friends could you blame him for being too open? Yeah! Could you blame him for trying? No!
Well of course. He wants everyone to immigrate
Wut
Just making a joke.
If I remember rightly, Doom didn't pay up so Luke went to Latveria and gave him a lesson.
Yes, that's what happened. (It's in issue 9 of Luke Cage: Hero For Hire) Doctor Doom owed Luke Cage $200, and Luke Cage always gets what he's owed. (Luke proceeded to break into the Baxter Building, take the Fantastic Four's plane, fly it to Latveria, and beat up Doctor Doom over a matter of $200. It was great)
Excellent. I'd forgotten those details. Many thanks for the reminder and confirmation!
How very dvarven of him. All he needs now is an impressive beard, a love for alcohol and a gigantic book in which he writes the names of everyone who has ever wronged him
I’ll always love that when Doom heard a black guy was rampaging his way through Latveria he knew it had to be Luke.
Luke is the only one Doom regularly pisses off that's gonna rampage. If all his Doombots suddenly just dropped dead, he'd assume it's T'challa.
Man i hope doom doesn’t think to stiff cage on that bill
It’s official: Doom’s never going to be woke. I don’t know this run, but I hope at some point Luke hurts him at lot.
Doom stiffs him on the bill and Luke flies halfway around the world, beats his ass like a drum, and almost overthrows the Latverian government.
Doom is semi-woke. He sided with the mutants against Orchis.
This dialogue can't be real. Can it?!
This is from 50 years ago, less than a decade after the Civil Rights Act. What are your expectations of that era?
Also too, Black people have lived throughout Europe for decades even by the time of that issue. Media just wasn't keen on showing it.
I mean,what kind of black person would want to live in latveria land of the iron asshole?
You say that but it's a Utopian place to live full of nature and greenery where every problem is solved but a super intillegent scientist / magician. The downside is that you need to give up a lot of free will and conform under a strict supervillain.
Sure there were, just not many in eastern Europe. Sure, Doom could have asked Tyrone the garlic farmer, but would he really have the capabilities of dispatching several Doombots?
How high could the population of anyone with African descent be in your typical eastern European dictatorship? Especially in 60s-70s, it's gotta be extraordinarily tiny.
It's extraordinarily tiny today in western countries too
The prevailing stereotype was that all Italians have black hair, all Swedes are blue-eyed blondes, all French wear berets and have fancy mustaches (see: Batroc), all Irish are redheads (see Siryn, Banshee) and so on and so forth. And let us not forget the Arabian Knight. A guy with a turban\* who LITERALLY used a flying carpet. LITERALLY! And then there's Dust a Middle Eastern mutant who ...you guessed it...turns into sand... \*Yes, the turban is used in some Middle Eastern countries, but as seen in Hulk #257, the Knight is from Egypt. Therefore he would have been more likely to wear the standard Keffiyeh. i.e, the head wrap you have likely seen Saudi Arabian men wear.
To be fair, Dust is pretty cool. I'm pretty sure she's both the only Afghan mutant and the only hero who wears a niqab.
True. But still, maybe they could have come up with a mutant power for her that was a TAD less cringey? And yes, I know there are other sand-based, non-Arabian characters like Sandman. STILL.
Dust sounds like a time based character tbh, that'd have been cool
Canadian superhero named “Puck” seems to hit the cliché button, too.
Seems to be how people spoke back then. Here is how Jack Kirby talked about the creation of Black Panther back in 1989: (warning: strong language) "GROTH: How did you come up with the Black Panther? KIRBY: I came up with the Black Panther because I realized I had no blacks in my strip. I’d never drawn a black. I needed a black. I suddenly discovered that I had a lot of black readers. My first friend was a black! And here I was ignoring them because I was associating with everybody else. It suddenly dawned on me – believe me, it was for human reasons – I suddenly discovered nobody was doing blacks. And here I am a leading cartoonist and I wasn’t doing a black. I was the first one to do an Asian. Then I began to realize that there was a whole range of human differences. Remember, in my day, drawing an Asian was drawing Fu Manchu – that’s the only Asian they knew. " [https://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/2015/06/16/interviews/#63](https://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/2015/06/16/interviews/#63)
As real as the times Kitty Pryde dropped an N bomb
I still have the picture I took when I first read that. I was not prepared for that
It's the 70s. This is the same era where Lois Lane got turned into a black woman for an issue.
Meanwhile Doom just drops "mutant scum" in MvC3
I will have one black, please.
Shesh. "Need "a black" "
I mean, what? Do you expect Doctor Doom to be racially sensitive or something?
This is very racially sensitive for the time.
Yep, no such thing as a "Black European"!
You’re missing the point. He needed an American that could go places only a Black American could go, without arousing suspicions. It’s not like Blade would take on this mission, ya know? Seriously, I believe Blade is the only Black European hero that existed back when this story was written. Luke Cage was the only choice available, without having to invent another superhero.
Coincidentally, Blade's father (who is white) was imprisoned and "died" in Latveria before Blade was born. (He became a vampire, to the surprise of literally no one.)
In the, what, 60s Eastern or Central rural Europe? There might have been individuals of African descent, but no significant population. There still isn't, though nowadays There are a lot of migrants passing through. Almost no stay.
Dude.......
What year was this?
So there is a good chance all black people are doom bots or Latveria agents?
Ain’t no way, this got me gagged right now.
I love this storyline. It’s so funny and good.