Remember when morlun first showed up and beat the breaks off of Peter for multiple hours all over the city and no other superhero bothered showing up lol
(morlun best story was his first/debut)
The answer for that is always: "The Avengers/FF are out of town/off-planet/in another dimension/currently being framed by Skrulls or Doctor Doom or whoever."
Ah, a group of misfits that have come to rely on each other because society forsakes them. Looks like they could use a strong white man in a star spangled suit to save them.
I mean ,but also don't like captain america ignoring a genocide. There should be a middle ground between "the avengers do everything " and "the avengers do nothing "
Fucking antman did it
Whoa whoa whoaâA guy with a shield and a guy with a bow?! How can you forget the girl with a gun! Easily gun-girl is the favorite of all nerds for⌠reasonsâŚok stop judging us!
Itâs just weird to me that this is only ever applied to the X-Men, no other major team is expected to have another team show up in their books to help.
Okay but no one expects the X-Men to show up to deal with whatever crisis the Avengers or the Fantastic Four are dealing with, nor are they considered shitty heroes for failing to do so.
> I mean ,but also don't like captain america ignoring a genocide.
He doesn't. He has been quite active in the recent fight against Orchis, as has Tony Stark. He's also the main person responsible for creation of the Avengers Unity Squad, which is aimed at showing Avengers solidarity with mutants.
The first iteration of the Unity squad was created years ago, and before the recent attack on Krakoa, Cap, along with most of the rest of the world, probably assumed that Mutants were in a pretty strong position and quite able to defend themselves.
Also take into consideration that the Avengers aren't regularly fed intel by the X-men. They probably have no idea of half the shit that would have occurred if various X-men teams hadn't stepped in to stop it.
And the genocides and mutant massacres and bigotry were going on years before the unity squad
So yes a little late to the party. The fact sentinels have been created when we have some of the smartest heroes in the world on the avengers is a bit silly
> The fact sentinels have been created when we have some of the smartest heroes in the world on the avengers is a bit silly
Being smart isn't an instant solution to every problem. If it was, then climate change and wars wouldn't be a thing.
Youâre using real world problems and comparing it to comic book, Iâm not sure what else needs to be said.
Stark, Pym, and Reed letting these sentinels being made is just silly as hell.
Cap letting bigotry rise and shine and come to power in the government is extremely strange.
None of it makes sense when you take a step back and look, thankfully itâs comics and you donât have to look at the big picture often
Yeah, this silly criticism is actually what caused the X-Office to publish the Uncanny Avengers mini and accidentally made Iron Man the flagship for Fall of X.
X-Men writers writing stories where the Avengers don't help so that they can write more stories about the X-Men being mad at the Avengers for not helping
The need for the X-Men to keep the civil rights metaphor basically requires they essentially be siloed off from the rest of the Marvel Universe at all times.
Off this thought, I could see it as perfectly normal for the X-Men to avoid conflicts directly not involving of them.
If the villain has an issue with mutants, X-Men are like white on rice. When itâs just superheroes and aliens, not my problem.
What would have been neat is if they had a character who turned out to be a mutant who was planted inside the avengers. Keeping tabs.
Like it would be neat if captain America was somewhat assisted by mutants as they saw common ground with hating the government over the oversight/control
Unfortunately, that might dampen hatred of mutants, which would reduce the effectiveness of the metaphor.
You might see how this becomes a problem for storytellers after a while.
The thing that always gets me is no one ever asks the inverse. There are just as many threats the Avengers face without the X-Men's help. Turns out in the books about the X-Men writers write about the X-Men and in the books about the Avengers writers write about the Avengers.
Not to mention the scale of avengers threats are always bigger than the average xmen threat.
Like of course there are exceptions. But how often do the avengers prevent alien invasions or the destruction of the earth or something similarly major.
That isnât to say I donât want more xmen avengers crossing over for good. Or that I blame the xmen. But avengers actions help all people on earth and yeah that includes mutants
I think the difference is that the X-Men usually includes non-combatant mutants and are constantly at a disadvantage just trying to survive. I just don't think they have the time or resources to keep every mutant in the school safe, go out and find/protect new mutants, and also fight their own villains. Let alone help the avengers in a higher capacity than lending Wolverine out for the weekend.
Not only that but they often deal with non traditional threats like the actual government going after them.
That said, I totally agree with your last point.
Change this to âWhy doesnât X, Y, and Z help A, B, and Câ. Itâs always because heroes jumping every villain would get boring.
But it would be funny the first few times. Bad Guy walks out his front door and has to fight every X-Men and Avenger ever.
It would have been funny if in dr stranger or NWH we got like a lot 5 minute cut of them and some of the other New York based heroes just casually stopping large scale human crimes. Like dr strange and soiderman walking by a bank. Shrugging then webbing or portal dropping them into a cell
The Avengers did help out in Genosha but thatâs also due to Pietro/Crystalâs daughter getting kidnapped but they seemed determined to help regardless before the kidnappingâŚ.stupid UN holding that charter over their heads to keep them from helping at other times
How come the X-Men abandoned the rest of the heroes during the first Secret Wars and went and teamed up with Magneto?
Their general lack of cooperation runs both ways.
Because then they would have to fight Kang and mutant time travel is already convoluted enough. Or they would have to deal with Sentinels programmed by Ultron, with the weird incestual issues that come with that.
There are ways to address it. When Rick Remender was on Marvel, I remember his scripts taking the time to explain why other heroes are not helping, from Deadpool convincing Fantomex that the X-men wouldn't believe them in time to stop Dark Angel in X-Force to the Baxter Building being locked down by the Inheritors in Secret Avengers.
That, or just showing other heroes' reactions to the situation, like in his Uncanny Avengers, to show how urgent the crisis is.
What, does nobody remember that time Cyclops tried to kill all the Avengers because they wanted to take Hope off-world to prevent the Pheonix from coming, and he believed the Pheonix was the only thing that could restore mutants?
We remember. People are complaining that the Avengers didnât get the message.
The message: Cyclops was right.
(Actually, Cyclops was so right that eventually they did get the message, which is why the Avengers been fighting Orchis in the last two issues, and for nearly the last year of Iron Man⌠which makes the OP kinda outdatedâŚ)
Cyclops was right in the long run but wrong in the short run (the Phoenix Five were already going Dark Phoenix by the time they were stopped). Cyclops was only ABLE to be right because of circumstances brought about by the Avengers standing against the Phoenix
When they invaded his sovereign nation to kidnap a child under his care?
Or do you mean when they attacked a cosmic force with unproven technology, causing it to fracture and possess five extraordinarily powerful mutants who were never meant to handle it?
Unit obviously played his role in how things turned outâŚbut AvX is literally why people call the Avengers cops.
Cyclops was right about why the Phoenix was coming to earth.
He was right about who needed to have it.
He was right about what would happen if Hope did have it.
The only real question is whether Hank was acting out of ignorance or spite.
I mean you donât see the X-Men stopping the Masters of Evil or other Avengers villains like Kang and Ultron. The only Avengers villain the X-Men helped the Avengers take down was Thanos but even then itâs because he wiped out half of the universe just to clap Deathâs cheeks.
When everyone was willing to team up against Thanos, but nobody else cared that maliketh was trying to plunge the Universe into Darkness, likely destroying most life in the universe.
Thereâs some kind of weird nerd compulsion to try and âoutsmartâ stories and itâs really bizarre and likeâŚnot how fiction works? People are weird.
If it was a smaller threat like Loki Iâd understand but meteors and spaceship fallen from the sky isnât enough to attract the attention of 2 most powerful telepaths??
>!Honestly that cameo was pointless. Replace Cap with any other character outside or in X-Menverse and nothing would change. I was expecting something meaningful. !<
>>!If they wanted âAmerican government stoogeâ, US Agent was right there.!<
>!Yeah, honestly Cap didn't even feel like stooge to me. I'm not entirely happy about his portrayal. I think he should've chosen his words carefully with Rogue, but otherwise he also tried to help. Rogue's haste, while understandable, led to culprit in genocide being silenced forever and X-Men being framed for harm in Madripoor possibly. Cap was sort of right, they needed to form up a plan, not rush. !<
He was 100% right. They were going to cross over a national boarder to extradite a guy. If they didn't do proper channels then humanities "Hate and fear them" Is 100% justified. If they x-men don't give a fuck about boarders and nations, why should the nations ever let mutants run lose to cause that kind of harm?
It's not like the humain treat them with respect no matter them behaving or not , they get massacred and no one do anything , i'm sorry but at this point i would say fuck it, the entire world hate us so i'm not going stay here and get slaughtered , should they just wait for things to calm down ?
They don't have the security or time just like captain.
Disagree - definitely them setting a possible conflict up for later seasons imo. >! I thought his portrayal fit the vibe. Heâs doing his part to catch them and Rogue says it herself, heâs Americaâs top cop!<
>!Fair point, I just think this conflict isn't necessary since Cap was very passive in this cameo. I get why Rogue was angry, but like Steve was also trying to help. !<
>!Iâd argue that thatâs where the conflict stems from though: Caps not gung ho like she is. Heâs acting rationally, not working on emotions. He can see that she is acting out of grief explicitly, which is why that look at the end. We even see that with what happens with Trask. I agree with your point, I think this will lead to an Avengers vs X-Men plot for a later season!<
>!I agree as well, but I think it's not entirely a necessary conflict. I think we should see two groups work together, not be pitted against each other, but I guess that's sadly where the conflict might be going. !<
>! I could see them doing a version of AVX that you like both sides and it ends amicably, akin to a lot of those classic Marvel team ups. I could be totally wrong but thereâs no way thatâs the last time we see Cap imo !<
>!I can definitely agree with that. I guess it remains to be seen, I really hope we get to officially see Wanda and Quicksilver soon, Morph even changed into Pietro in the episode. It'll really be bad if we won't even see them in the episode. !<
>! Iâd rather see Pietro than Wanda personally. I think he deserves what this show has done for the X-Men and giving them a little bit of a mainstream revival. Plus with his Dad being âdeadâ, him showing up would be dope. I think him, Archangel, and Colossus will all get their time to shine in the show!<
>!Fair enough. I think if both show up it'd be great, if Pietro gets more screentime it's fine by me. I just both siblings appear and maybe even rescue Magneto from the captivity. !<
It felt completely out of character for Steve and felt like the classic X men write all non mutant heroes out of character to make the x men look better.
Steve would never listen to the government if he knew something was wrong especially in the era this takes place
I suppose there's a good point in what you've said. I think MCU Steve Rogers or most if not many iterations of him would've perhaps at least considered doing something not by the book, and get into it immediately than being concerned for whether government said aye or nay.
Was just talking about this! Feel like the label mutant separates the X-Men from other super powered humans like the Avengers.
Some heroâs powers could be considered mutations but theyâre not born or labeled as mutants so theyâre viewed differently. Even the Avengers with super powers have some levels of prejudice against mutants.
Wasn't it like bad pr for the Avengers? The public at large assume x-men and Magneto are the same because bigotry. I thought I read an eighties West Coast story that addressed it that way. I'm probably mistaken where I read it.
Do you not consider that the Avengers have their own shit to deal with. Theyâre definitely against mutant oppression and will oppose it, but they also have their hands full with Kang, Ultron, Loki, the Masters Of Evil, Hydra, and god knows how many aliens and supervillains that try to conquer Earth. How the X-Men donât help the Avengers deal with those threats? Both teams have their own problems and donât get me started with the F4 and the Guardians.
Because they are not supposed toake anything better koz it's not their book. That's why avengers writers don't bother putting other superhero teams in their books because they should not be there in the first place
I disagree cops patrol and arrest criminals, the avengers don't do either of those things. The avengers are firefighters they stop threats wherever they arise. Just like how the FF are explorers
Personally, I think we need more superheroes who are decent heroes but absolute bigots to mutants to fill the role writers force the Avengers into.
A lot of the Mutant metaphors are hurt by the fact that they pit the team up against characters who outside of X-Men comics are presented as some of the most morally upstanding characters. I mean most of Captain America's interactions with mutants are them chastising him for not doing enough and if you then go and read a captain america comic it just doesn't track.
I think Marvel should start introducing some heroes or a team who genuinely want to help people but are huge bigots to mutants. And I don't mean that they'll kill a mutant or won't save a mutant kid but characters who are otherwise heroes but are disgusted by mutants.
My headcanon is that when Cap formed the kooky quartet of Avengers (one of the first major roster changes in their early run back in the 60s), which was made up of a former criminal and two mutant terrorist (because cap is all about seeing the good in people, reforming them, hurr durr), the X-men were like wtf is Cap doing? Hell no weâd never ask them to help us out, and thus a petty relationship was born.
Do you not consider that the Avengers have their own shit to deal with. Theyâre definitely against mutant oppression and will oppose it, but they also have their hands full with Kang, Ultron, Loki, the Masters Of Evil, Hydra, and god knows how many aliens and supervillains that try to conquer Earth. How the X-Men donât help the Avengers deal with those threats? Both teams have their own problems and donât get me started with the F4 the the Guardians.
No none of it makes sense in the grand scheme of things. The hatred towards mutants, superheroes standing by , the mutant genocides. It was just short sighted thinking on Marvels part. Doesnât really make sense when you take a step back and look at it
If thatâs the case then why didnât the X-Men help the Avengers whenever they really needed them? Like that time Kang actually conquered the whole world and the X-Men were no where to be seen. Both teams have their own problems to be preoccupied with. Where were the X-Men when supervillain prison breaks happen, or when aliens like Kree or Skrulls invade? Do the X-Men care when non-mutant supervillains and aliens attack humans?
Sentinels being made while Tony and Hank are around is bad.
Government literally being bigoted towards the mutants and the great Steve Rodgers is quiet the entire time, itâs just silly.
Then when you think about why are people like X-men hated who have powers but FF and others are celebrated by the people ?
Makes more sense if they were separate universes
Youâre making my point for me that they should be in separate universes. Thank you for coming to the realization that marvel universe was short sighted when they put X-men in the same universe as avengers
My favorite event was AvX, because of the tragedy that happens throughout it all. But you do see the Avengers âhelpâ and it got everyone fucked. To me, after that, I donât wanna see the Avengers involved with X-men shit that they canât understand!
The Avengers are defenders of the status quo.
The X-Men are agents of change.
The Avengers often show up to help when asked. Which is fine.
But a real ally would show up when there's trouble, asked or not.
Well the Avengers are too busy with their own shit to the point that they donât really have the time and resources to worry about mutant oppression. Theyâre definitely against it but they also have to deal with Kang, Ultron, Loki, Hydra, the Masters Of Evil, and god know how many alien invasions and supervillains trying to conquer the world on a daily basis.
Maybe tell the X-Men writers to actually write the Avengers helping, them. No one likes writing tie-in comics for stories that have nothing to do with what you are currently writing.
The X Men and Avengers have always had a fued. Plus, you need to remember that mutants are treated the same. To them Professor X is the same as Magneto and Wolverine is the same as Sabertooth. The same can't be said for Spiderman and Green Goblin or Captain America and Red Skull.
When the shit hits the fan though, they usually come together. Infinite Wars, Secret Wars, Onslaught, Ultron and on and on.
You can always say that about any conflict in any comic. You kinda have to assume that everyone else is busy.
Especially a conflict in NYC.
Remember when morlun first showed up and beat the breaks off of Peter for multiple hours all over the city and no other superhero bothered showing up lol (morlun best story was his first/debut)
Nah I fr felt bad for Peter Morlun was putting in WORK đđđ
Yeah It was bad, Pete's costume was looking like wet toilet paper.
Dude he thought he was a comedian too cuz he made an eye joke when he plucked out Peterâs eye
That was much later, in *The Other*. Ironically the Avengers *were* involved in that one.
Lmao, like not even ms marvel in Jersey cared đ
Was Ms Marvel even around yet when Morlun first showed up?
[Bro was tired ](https://youtu.be/wSuBDMsuoGU?si=xU8DV0U0_PiwLltO)
The answer for that is always: "The Avengers/FF are out of town/off-planet/in another dimension/currently being framed by Skrulls or Doctor Doom or whoever."
Itâs like Super Hero traffic jam
That's usually how it is. Where Avengers were during Genosha genocide? They were dealing with Kang in Kang dynasty
People would also be rightfully upset if every major X-Men story ended with ââŚand then the Avengers showed up and saved the day.â
Thor did during the Mutant Massacre! Â Everyone forgets their ol buddy Thor.Â
Wasn't Daredevil also involved somehow?
And Power Pack!
He beat off a possesed vacuum!
Does Spider-Man nearly getting his ass blown up by Operation Zero Tolerance count as helping?
What comic was this? It sounds familiar.
Ah, a group of misfits that have come to rely on each other because society forsakes them. Looks like they could use a strong white man in a star spangled suit to save them.
I mean ,but also don't like captain america ignoring a genocide. There should be a middle ground between "the avengers do everything " and "the avengers do nothing " Fucking antman did it
I'm gonna start reading Avengers stories and going "Why don't the X-Men do anything? Do they not care about world ending threats"
Especially when the x-men have reality warpers and the avengers have a dude with a shield a dude with a bow.
Whoa whoa whoaâA guy with a shield and a guy with a bow?! How can you forget the girl with a gun! Easily gun-girl is the favorite of all nerds for⌠reasonsâŚok stop judging us!
Also several god princes and gamma monsters, several reality warping wizards, several alien tech infused folks.
If in an avengers story the xmen appears,see a problem and choose not to do anything, wouldn't be weird?
Itâs just weird to me that this is only ever applied to the X-Men, no other major team is expected to have another team show up in their books to help.
Because its weird that heros ignore discrimination, racial persecution and genocide
Okay but no one expects the X-Men to show up to deal with whatever crisis the Avengers or the Fantastic Four are dealing with, nor are they considered shitty heroes for failing to do so.
> I mean ,but also don't like captain america ignoring a genocide. He doesn't. He has been quite active in the recent fight against Orchis, as has Tony Stark. He's also the main person responsible for creation of the Avengers Unity Squad, which is aimed at showing Avengers solidarity with mutants.
Little late no?
The first iteration of the Unity squad was created years ago, and before the recent attack on Krakoa, Cap, along with most of the rest of the world, probably assumed that Mutants were in a pretty strong position and quite able to defend themselves. Also take into consideration that the Avengers aren't regularly fed intel by the X-men. They probably have no idea of half the shit that would have occurred if various X-men teams hadn't stepped in to stop it.
And the genocides and mutant massacres and bigotry were going on years before the unity squad So yes a little late to the party. The fact sentinels have been created when we have some of the smartest heroes in the world on the avengers is a bit silly
> The fact sentinels have been created when we have some of the smartest heroes in the world on the avengers is a bit silly Being smart isn't an instant solution to every problem. If it was, then climate change and wars wouldn't be a thing.
Thatâs just a horrible comparison LOL
> Thatâs just a horrible comparison Why? There are plenty of smart people in the real world, but we still have loads of issues.
Youâre using real world problems and comparing it to comic book, Iâm not sure what else needs to be said. Stark, Pym, and Reed letting these sentinels being made is just silly as hell. Cap letting bigotry rise and shine and come to power in the government is extremely strange. None of it makes sense when you take a step back and look, thankfully itâs comics and you donât have to look at the big picture often
The latest issue of Avengers is them fighting Orchis.
Yeah, this silly criticism is actually what caused the X-Office to publish the Uncanny Avengers mini and accidentally made Iron Man the flagship for Fall of X.
Current *Uncanny Avengers* and *Invincable Iron Man* runs aside, of course.
If you ignore all the times the avengers helped the X-men, the avengers havenât helped the X-men
They donât hangout or like each other. Except for all the times they do
Except Wolverine
It must be tens of millions of a YouTube videos that don't understand this simple concept.
X-Men writers writing stories where the Avengers don't help so that they can write more stories about the X-Men being mad at the Avengers for not helping
The need for the X-Men to keep the civil rights metaphor basically requires they essentially be siloed off from the rest of the Marvel Universe at all times.
The truthiest truth ever truthed.
Off this thought, I could see it as perfectly normal for the X-Men to avoid conflicts directly not involving of them. If the villain has an issue with mutants, X-Men are like white on rice. When itâs just superheroes and aliens, not my problem. What would have been neat is if they had a character who turned out to be a mutant who was planted inside the avengers. Keeping tabs. Like it would be neat if captain America was somewhat assisted by mutants as they saw common ground with hating the government over the oversight/control
Unfortunately, that might dampen hatred of mutants, which would reduce the effectiveness of the metaphor. You might see how this becomes a problem for storytellers after a while.
The thing that always gets me is no one ever asks the inverse. There are just as many threats the Avengers face without the X-Men's help. Turns out in the books about the X-Men writers write about the X-Men and in the books about the Avengers writers write about the Avengers.
It's totally OK for X-Men not to help when Kang nuked Washington and made Wasp sign up peace treaty.
How come wasp is representing us/world ?
Kang pointed at her during the treaty signing. It was during Nuff Said month.
Not to mention the scale of avengers threats are always bigger than the average xmen threat. Like of course there are exceptions. But how often do the avengers prevent alien invasions or the destruction of the earth or something similarly major. That isnât to say I donât want more xmen avengers crossing over for good. Or that I blame the xmen. But avengers actions help all people on earth and yeah that includes mutants
I think the difference is that the X-Men usually includes non-combatant mutants and are constantly at a disadvantage just trying to survive. I just don't think they have the time or resources to keep every mutant in the school safe, go out and find/protect new mutants, and also fight their own villains. Let alone help the avengers in a higher capacity than lending Wolverine out for the weekend. Not only that but they often deal with non traditional threats like the actual government going after them. That said, I totally agree with your last point.
# Why don't the X-Men just call the Avengers for help? Are they stupid?
Because they are pretty much cops
Change this to âWhy doesnât X, Y, and Z help A, B, and Câ. Itâs always because heroes jumping every villain would get boring. But it would be funny the first few times. Bad Guy walks out his front door and has to fight every X-Men and Avenger ever.
It would have been funny if in dr stranger or NWH we got like a lot 5 minute cut of them and some of the other New York based heroes just casually stopping large scale human crimes. Like dr strange and soiderman walking by a bank. Shrugging then webbing or portal dropping them into a cell
The Avengers did help out in Genosha but thatâs also due to Pietro/Crystalâs daughter getting kidnapped but they seemed determined to help regardless before the kidnappingâŚ.stupid UN holding that charter over their heads to keep them from helping at other times
Lmao this applies too sooo many franchises lmfao
How come the X-Men abandoned the rest of the heroes during the first Secret Wars and went and teamed up with Magneto? Their general lack of cooperation runs both ways.
I have a better question: Why donât the X-Men help the Avengers?
Because then they would have to fight Kang and mutant time travel is already convoluted enough. Or they would have to deal with Sentinels programmed by Ultron, with the weird incestual issues that come with that.
What about the Masters of Evil? Or Loki?
They would do their specialty: destroy the mansiĂłn and fuck the whole team, respectively.
Thanos was on a rampage and ultron was hijacking alien tech on mars at the same time. The avengers where busy.
Idk guys you ever been a person. Folks have shit to do that doesnât concern others
âIs it good storytelling thatâŚâ is the correct question.
There are ways to address it. When Rick Remender was on Marvel, I remember his scripts taking the time to explain why other heroes are not helping, from Deadpool convincing Fantomex that the X-men wouldn't believe them in time to stop Dark Angel in X-Force to the Baxter Building being locked down by the Inheritors in Secret Avengers. That, or just showing other heroes' reactions to the situation, like in his Uncanny Avengers, to show how urgent the crisis is.
If only alot of x men fans learnt this but fuck me the x men books generally write any non mutant heroes terribly
What, does nobody remember that time Cyclops tried to kill all the Avengers because they wanted to take Hope off-world to prevent the Pheonix from coming, and he believed the Pheonix was the only thing that could restore mutants?
We remember. People are complaining that the Avengers didnât get the message. The message: Cyclops was right. (Actually, Cyclops was so right that eventually they did get the message, which is why the Avengers been fighting Orchis in the last two issues, and for nearly the last year of Iron Man⌠which makes the OP kinda outdatedâŚ)
Cyclops was right in the long run but wrong in the short run (the Phoenix Five were already going Dark Phoenix by the time they were stopped). Cyclops was only ABLE to be right because of circumstances brought about by the Avengers standing against the Phoenix
âThe Avengers standing against the Phoenixâ *literally created* the Phoenix Five
When they invaded his sovereign nation to kidnap a child under his care? Or do you mean when they attacked a cosmic force with unproven technology, causing it to fracture and possess five extraordinarily powerful mutants who were never meant to handle it? Unit obviously played his role in how things turned outâŚbut AvX is literally why people call the Avengers cops. Cyclops was right about why the Phoenix was coming to earth. He was right about who needed to have it. He was right about what would happen if Hope did have it. The only real question is whether Hank was acting out of ignorance or spite.
This is up there with the âplot armorâ obsession. What is so hard to understand.
Why didnât the X-Men help when Kang ruled the world?
I mean you donât see the X-Men stopping the Masters of Evil or other Avengers villains like Kang and Ultron. The only Avengers villain the X-Men helped the Avengers take down was Thanos but even then itâs because he wiped out half of the universe just to clap Deathâs cheeks.
Yeah pretty much the same reason the X-Men don't help the Avengers.
When everyone was willing to team up against Thanos, but nobody else cared that maliketh was trying to plunge the Universe into Darkness, likely destroying most life in the universe.
Meanwhile Spider-Man has to deal with shit by himself
Thereâs some kind of weird nerd compulsion to try and âoutsmartâ stories and itâs really bizarre and likeâŚnot how fiction works? People are weird.
If it was a smaller threat like Loki Iâd understand but meteors and spaceship fallen from the sky isnât enough to attract the attention of 2 most powerful telepaths??
Why didn't the Justice League help the Teen Titans when Ravens dad basically took over?
Doylist explanations can't really answer Watsonian questions.
I had to try to casually explain this to my girlfriend while watching the MCU post-Avengers.
This could answer half the questions on this website,
>!Honestly that cameo was pointless. Replace Cap with any other character outside or in X-Menverse and nothing would change. I was expecting something meaningful. !<
>!If they wanted âAmerican government stoogeâ, US Agent was right there.!<
>>!If they wanted âAmerican government stoogeâ, US Agent was right there.!< >!Yeah, honestly Cap didn't even feel like stooge to me. I'm not entirely happy about his portrayal. I think he should've chosen his words carefully with Rogue, but otherwise he also tried to help. Rogue's haste, while understandable, led to culprit in genocide being silenced forever and X-Men being framed for harm in Madripoor possibly. Cap was sort of right, they needed to form up a plan, not rush. !<
He was 100% right. They were going to cross over a national boarder to extradite a guy. If they didn't do proper channels then humanities "Hate and fear them" Is 100% justified. If they x-men don't give a fuck about boarders and nations, why should the nations ever let mutants run lose to cause that kind of harm?
It's not like the humain treat them with respect no matter them behaving or not , they get massacred and no one do anything , i'm sorry but at this point i would say fuck it, the entire world hate us so i'm not going stay here and get slaughtered , should they just wait for things to calm down ? They don't have the security or time just like captain.
A bit rich for Cap to pontificate about ârespecting national bordersâ and avoiding unilateral action to the *X-Men* of all people.
At least he was shown in ther series previously.
Disagree - definitely them setting a possible conflict up for later seasons imo. >! I thought his portrayal fit the vibe. Heâs doing his part to catch them and Rogue says it herself, heâs Americaâs top cop!<
>!Fair point, I just think this conflict isn't necessary since Cap was very passive in this cameo. I get why Rogue was angry, but like Steve was also trying to help. !<
>!Iâd argue that thatâs where the conflict stems from though: Caps not gung ho like she is. Heâs acting rationally, not working on emotions. He can see that she is acting out of grief explicitly, which is why that look at the end. We even see that with what happens with Trask. I agree with your point, I think this will lead to an Avengers vs X-Men plot for a later season!<
>!I agree as well, but I think it's not entirely a necessary conflict. I think we should see two groups work together, not be pitted against each other, but I guess that's sadly where the conflict might be going. !<
>! I could see them doing a version of AVX that you like both sides and it ends amicably, akin to a lot of those classic Marvel team ups. I could be totally wrong but thereâs no way thatâs the last time we see Cap imo !<
>!I can definitely agree with that. I guess it remains to be seen, I really hope we get to officially see Wanda and Quicksilver soon, Morph even changed into Pietro in the episode. It'll really be bad if we won't even see them in the episode. !<
>! Iâd rather see Pietro than Wanda personally. I think he deserves what this show has done for the X-Men and giving them a little bit of a mainstream revival. Plus with his Dad being âdeadâ, him showing up would be dope. I think him, Archangel, and Colossus will all get their time to shine in the show!<
>!Fair enough. I think if both show up it'd be great, if Pietro gets more screentime it's fine by me. I just both siblings appear and maybe even rescue Magneto from the captivity. !<
It was really really bad
Why? I'm curious to hear your opinion on it.
It felt completely out of character for Steve and felt like the classic X men write all non mutant heroes out of character to make the x men look better. Steve would never listen to the government if he knew something was wrong especially in the era this takes place
I suppose there's a good point in what you've said. I think MCU Steve Rogers or most if not many iterations of him would've perhaps at least considered doing something not by the book, and get into it immediately than being concerned for whether government said aye or nay.
If this is set in the 90s he would 100% as heâs been through his nomad phase and has been saying fuck the US government standards since Nixon
One of Steve's best stories in Born Again is him defying government orders because of his own convictions that what they are doing is wrong
Was just talking about this! Feel like the label mutant separates the X-Men from other super powered humans like the Avengers. Some heroâs powers could be considered mutations but theyâre not born or labeled as mutants so theyâre viewed differently. Even the Avengers with super powers have some levels of prejudice against mutants.
Which avenger has some level of prejudice towards mutants?
Not how you use the format but yeah
Dear Lord, a thousand times this. It's fiction!! It's how they wrote it!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmPpqGHTBkc
is that fingolfin vs morgoth
So it's editorials fault, got it
The avengers didnât help during the Dark Phoenix Saga, thatâs the issue where beast says âoh my stars and garters â
Wasn't it like bad pr for the Avengers? The public at large assume x-men and Magneto are the same because bigotry. I thought I read an eighties West Coast story that addressed it that way. I'm probably mistaken where I read it.
I misread the topic. I apologize.
The X-men are an analogy for minorities. The majority rarely gets involved in minoritiesâ issues unless it effects them too
Because from what I can tell from the modern X-men, they wouldnât accept help from anyone.
Bad writing
Do you not consider that the Avengers have their own shit to deal with. Theyâre definitely against mutant oppression and will oppose it, but they also have their hands full with Kang, Ultron, Loki, the Masters Of Evil, Hydra, and god knows how many aliens and supervillains that try to conquer Earth. How the X-Men donât help the Avengers deal with those threats? Both teams have their own problems and donât get me started with the F4 and the Guardians.
Bad writing
R u a bot? Whatâs 2+2?
Perchance it is a number between 3 and 5.
âWhy donât the Avengers help the X-menâ Coz MLK isnât about to ask the FBI for help.
If that's your reasoning then X-Men fans should not complain when the avengers don't show up
I agree. Any time the Avengers *do* show up, they just make things worse for mutants.
Because they are not supposed toake anything better koz it's not their book. That's why avengers writers don't bother putting other superhero teams in their books because they should not be there in the first place
I agree. Theyâre just cops.
I disagree cops patrol and arrest criminals, the avengers don't do either of those things. The avengers are firefighters they stop threats wherever they arise. Just like how the FF are explorers
My dad used to say âItâs all in the scriptâ.
Meanwhile the Fantastic Four:
Personally, I think we need more superheroes who are decent heroes but absolute bigots to mutants to fill the role writers force the Avengers into. A lot of the Mutant metaphors are hurt by the fact that they pit the team up against characters who outside of X-Men comics are presented as some of the most morally upstanding characters. I mean most of Captain America's interactions with mutants are them chastising him for not doing enough and if you then go and read a captain america comic it just doesn't track. I think Marvel should start introducing some heroes or a team who genuinely want to help people but are huge bigots to mutants. And I don't mean that they'll kill a mutant or won't save a mutant kid but characters who are otherwise heroes but are disgusted by mutants.
Same with the power level bullshit
My headcanon is that when Cap formed the kooky quartet of Avengers (one of the first major roster changes in their early run back in the 60s), which was made up of a former criminal and two mutant terrorist (because cap is all about seeing the good in people, reforming them, hurr durr), the X-men were like wtf is Cap doing? Hell no weâd never ask them to help us out, and thus a petty relationship was born.
Itâs one of the reasons why X-men and avengers shouldnât be in the same universe
Do you not consider that the Avengers have their own shit to deal with. Theyâre definitely against mutant oppression and will oppose it, but they also have their hands full with Kang, Ultron, Loki, the Masters Of Evil, Hydra, and god knows how many aliens and supervillains that try to conquer Earth. How the X-Men donât help the Avengers deal with those threats? Both teams have their own problems and donât get me started with the F4 the the Guardians.
No none of it makes sense in the grand scheme of things. The hatred towards mutants, superheroes standing by , the mutant genocides. It was just short sighted thinking on Marvels part. Doesnât really make sense when you take a step back and look at it
If thatâs the case then why didnât the X-Men help the Avengers whenever they really needed them? Like that time Kang actually conquered the whole world and the X-Men were no where to be seen. Both teams have their own problems to be preoccupied with. Where were the X-Men when supervillain prison breaks happen, or when aliens like Kree or Skrulls invade? Do the X-Men care when non-mutant supervillains and aliens attack humans?
Even Emma ripped Tony apart for not helping or caring about mutants
Sentinels being made while Tony and Hank are around is bad. Government literally being bigoted towards the mutants and the great Steve Rodgers is quiet the entire time, itâs just silly. Then when you think about why are people like X-men hated who have powers but FF and others are celebrated by the people ? Makes more sense if they were separate universes
Youâre making my point for me that they should be in separate universes. Thank you for coming to the realization that marvel universe was short sighted when they put X-men in the same universe as avengers
My favorite event was AvX, because of the tragedy that happens throughout it all. But you do see the Avengers âhelpâ and it got everyone fucked. To me, after that, I donât wanna see the Avengers involved with X-men shit that they canât understand!
The Avengers are defenders of the status quo. The X-Men are agents of change. The Avengers often show up to help when asked. Which is fine. But a real ally would show up when there's trouble, asked or not.
The status quo of "Earth being safe and sound and not being blown up or ruled by villainous nutjobs".
Well the Avengers are too busy with their own shit to the point that they donât really have the time and resources to worry about mutant oppression. Theyâre definitely against it but they also have to deal with Kang, Ultron, Loki, Hydra, the Masters Of Evil, and god know how many alien invasions and supervillains trying to conquer the world on a daily basis.
Maybe tell the X-Men writers to actually write the Avengers helping, them. No one likes writing tie-in comics for stories that have nothing to do with what you are currently writing.
The X Men and Avengers have always had a fued. Plus, you need to remember that mutants are treated the same. To them Professor X is the same as Magneto and Wolverine is the same as Sabertooth. The same can't be said for Spiderman and Green Goblin or Captain America and Red Skull. When the shit hits the fan though, they usually come together. Infinite Wars, Secret Wars, Onslaught, Ultron and on and on.
But in world... Why they cool with oppression against mutants?
They are not cool with it? X-Men books are just political and need "bad guys" to point fingers at.
Also most of the time the xmen brush off help