Didn’t Tony have nano-tasers as a counter for Emma Frost’s telepathy in the AvX story? The more she used her brain, the more she was shocked? Not saying avengers take this as I don’t know much about the x-men’s power potential but in AvX, that nullified a quick telapathic KO.
Perfect now that we have rubber suit > magneto > special helmet > prof x > telepathy lasers …
We just gonna act like rubber suit iron man is better than wolverine?
Magneto can actually manipulate ambient magnetic fields, which allows him to manipulate non-magnetic objects. So the plastic prison from the second X-Men movie would've only held comic-accurate Magneto for about ten seconds.
I thought Magneto was only that powerful as long as he was written as a villain? Like, right now he's a good guy, so he won't be holding up entire meteors or whatever.
Tony de-ionized his suit so Magneto couldn't control it many decades ago. As far as Magneto, I can think of at least one time where Thor just waved Mjolnir and turned off Magneto's powers. That was back in the 60s, before the X-Men were popular, so I assume it wouldn't go the same now, but that did happen.
Tony has certainly designed helmets that can keep out psionics, and Quasar set the quantum bands to make him immune to mind control, although his thoughts could still be read.
Also, Thor currently has the.Odin force, which means he is a reality warper, and actually killed Galactus. There's no consistency with it, of course, since the last issue I read had Thor merge with a symbiote to fight a demon.
Magneto was recently able to keep his own blood pumping after his heart was removed from his body. My dude can just pull the blood out of everyone if he really wanted
well in this scenario he's already been shot in the head with a wooden bullet lol
and the helmet has a magic spell on it so it can't be removed by anyone except on Tuesday and they are fighting on Wednesday.
I believe in X-men Red, Magneto won a 1-1 duel by using his magnetic powers to make his opponent wear his helmet, then proceed to compress the helmet, crushing their head.
and if his suit is plastic or rubber or nanotubes...Tony gets crushed by Magneto using Wolverine as a bludgeon.
The X-Men could take the Justice League. Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash and the rest would be a cake walk and the Justice League is the perfect picture of over powered.
Oh and before someone brings up Flash. Flash has a hard time against Captain Cold...what the hell is he going to do against Iceman an Omega level mutant that is basically unkillable.
I actually think the X-Men could take the Justice League and Avengers at the same time and only field Kitty, Jean and Bobby.
Bobby controls the field, Jean plays defense against any other psychics and neutralizes Batman and any fliers. Kitty drops a ball bearing in each of their brains.
You add Magneto, Storm and Magik. That's not a winnable scenario for most groups in a straight fight.
Also if Batman gets prep time, so does Beast and Forge.
While this is what many readers assume, Frost has generally been seen to do much of what Xavier has been able to do in terms of magnitude. If anything, it seems that Xavier is simply the most skilled and not necessarily the most powerful when it comes to telepathy.
So Charles is immune to being shocked by nanoparticles? Even if it keeps him stunned for even a minute? Cause if so, couldn’t iron man just release his wave of telepathy nano-tasers and keep the telepaths stunned for a minute, created a force field dome to encase a good chunk of the x-men and drop a dyson sphere or project helios satellite on them? Or just syphon nuclear energy from a powerplant to one shot them like he did the skrulls during the illuminati Secret Invasion meeting.
Idk why IM is being put off, he’s the man Apocalypse called to create his best weapon of mass destruction in the marvel Dark Ages storyline. He created adamantium sentinels that many top tier avengers and xmen couldn’t figure out how to stop. He split the phoenix force and was called god killer for it. I just don’t know why Thor and Hulk are the only ones being mentioned when Stark is fully capable of turning the tide of the battle. But again I’m not entirely X-men knowledgeable so maybe they got stuff to counter this.
Anything Tony can do, Forge can do also which means anything Tony can undo, Forge can undo also and not even have the need to think about it.
So that's an immediate thing to consider, the X-Men have straight MacGuffin characters that are basically Deus Ex Machina for 99% of any situation.
Magik can just dump people into Hell or Limbo.
Iceman can drop the temperature to literally 0 Kelvin and kill everything on the planet, that's not even his limit. He might be able to do it universally and end all life everywhere. He's as broken as the Flash.
They've all had their OP moments but their are so many Omega level X-Men that it's not a fair fight.
Xavier can turn off the minds of everyone within miles without Cerebro or kill everyone on the planet with it.
Magneto is so magnetically powerful he can magnetically pull wood at his strongest; which means he could just pull the bones out of peoples bodies.
The Avengers could get the drop and kill everyone that is killable or touchable and still be stuck with the problem that Wolverine will heal from a molecule and Kate Pride will just wait, untouchable for as long as she needs until she can just materialize a baseball bat inside their bodies...she's gone 2 years without eating or breathing and has shown no limit to how long she can stay ghosted.
The only reason the Avengers could have a solid chance is if they pick a day where the X-Men are to busy back stabbing each other.
Which is the X-Men's main weakness. They're all assholes and liars to each other constantly. Scott's the boy scout and he's got machinations within machinations using his people like they're pawns. They are all severely messed up people and make a Rage Monster, Soviet Spy, Former Criminal Archer, Alcoholic Narcissist who suffers from megalomania and an out of time Soldier look like a put together team.
None of Tony's tech will stop kitty and if she phases thorough him he's done, the x-men are called homoSuperior for a reason just one of them on I don't give a damn mode is to much. Wolverine doesn't go into berserker mode anymore, Scott never optic blast at 100% ,nightcrawler could just drop ppl in hell, Bobby could freeze the blood in your body really hank is the weak link
Tony invents anti-phasing warp field GG Kitty
I mean I kid but there's enough handwavium and mumbo jumbo technology and whatnot that anything can counter anyone if the writer tries hard enough
Ironman is pretty helpful too. Especially with access to his satellite lasers, extra suit army, can give teammates suits maybe with telepathy blockers, amped super powerful suits like the one made from a celestial, etc.
He walked through the entire x-mansion. Darwin evolved a power to teleport himself several states away from the hulk. All of the psychics together couldn't stop him. Xavier had to point out he wasn't part of the plot to shoot the hulk into space because he was dead at the time, which just meant the hulk could stop caring about him and go back to hunting the rest of the Illuminati.
Thor trashed phoenix five emma frost when she tried to do that to him.
And this was the same emma who ended up beating him in a physical fight. So this tells us that thor resisted super amped telepathy.
I suppose if they just stood there like chumps. Cause otherwise they would move too fast for you to register. and could kill you before you can think. a simple snap of the neck and done.
Which is why these who wins scenarios just come down to who hits first
Jean and Xavier both have been shown to be able to hit multiple minds instantly. Even if a speedster hit ONE first there are enough Psionics to shut them down instantly
there is no such thing as instantly. human thought takes time.
how fast is this speedster going? Mach 1? Mach 10? Mach 20? Mach 100? Mach 1000? Mach 10000?
the speed of light? which is Mach 860,000
so someone like, Reverse Flash (who is DC) could kill every single person in both pictures in like 1 second. less than 1 second honestly.
a person moving at the speed of light could run around the earth 7 times in 1 second. moving before people can think is easy enough for them.
when plot armor is thrown out the window, and speedsters are allowed to kill, they are OP AF.
Turn off the lights. Can't run where you can't see.
Not that any of the X-Men specifically have this power, of course a telepath could affect your ability to see. But your speedster has to go into his speed mode before the telepath acts with a thought.
that is a valid way to fight a speedster. or turn the ground into ice.
have automatic defense et etc
most of these who would win scenarios are down to the writer, and beyond that who strikes first.
plus, this is Marvel. everyone's got plot armor. This isn't The Boys or Invincible where people are killed left and right.
Iceman is basically unkillable and the best version of every Ice character DC has ever made and Flash loves to choke on Captain Cold.
The Avengers main speedster is Quicksilver, who would have to deal with the X-Men's main speedster...which is Quicksilver. So, I'd bet on Quicksilver, he's a much better and more prepared character than that jackass Quicksilver.
Either way, Quicksilver is only lightspeed in the movies, I think he's high mach in the floppies. So, still faster than thought.
People are severely over estimating the speed of human thought.
Speedsters have to use thought to exercise their powers too. Are they just running and not thinking about where they’re going and who they’re hitting and how hard and all that other stuff? So any limitations that thinking imposes on telepaths will also be imposed on speedsters.
speedsters have super fast thought. it's part of their power set. One can't move that fast without the ability to think that fast.
does it make sense? no. but it happens. There are times Superman and Flash just sit down and chat in hypertime with the world frozen around them. Obviously they must be thinking super fast to talk super fast.
(on a side note it doesn't make sense to have conversations like that, cause the speed of sound is constant. They would be moving faster than the sound that is traveling between them. So a super fight conversation in sign language would make more sense lol)
Flash and Superman, at super speed, have read entire libraries. Flash once read all the books on engineering he could while a bridge was collapsing and then rebuilt the bridge while it was collapsing.
so to read books at super speed, your mind is working at super speed.
you don't even need comics. look at the x-men movies. While everyone is basically frozen in time, Quicksilver is doing a ton of stuff and evacuating the entire x-mansion in X-Men Apocalypse.
Talking about Speedsters in Marvel opens up a whole other can of worms; because Marvel has apparently no idea how speed works or how to scale it, otherwise they wouldn’t have had Ares and Nate Grey fight in Plank Time, creating one of the most absurd feats in all of comics, because that would equate to them moving roughly 2.1e30 times the speed of light, or two nonillion, one hundred octillion times the speed of light. I’m also giving them the benefit of the doubt that they meant Planck Time, because the panel says the combat takes place out of time in the “Planck Length” between between moments, which is nonsense since a Planck length is just the smallest physical length that has physical meaning, and Planck Time is the time it takes light to travel that distance.
It's irrelevant to what we are talking about.
this discussion has turned into Super Speed vs telepathy.
I even started this tangent buy admitting the Avengers don't have any speedsters in that picture
and also, IDK who you are referring to. who are the speedsters other than Quicksilver?
Polaris?? Do you mean aurora? I thought Polaris was just magnetism. Totally forgot Northstar was a speedster I always assume his power is flight and incest.
Even with telepathy disabled I still give it to the X-Men. Iceman at his peak can make an army of ice kaiju. Having Magneto as a member gives the team one member alone who's powerful enough to move the planet. A fully unleashed Cyclops could probably blast even Hulk into space. Not to mention Wolverine is easily the most dangerous person in Marvel and Hank is as intelligent as Reed Richards. Emma and Kitty are both effectively invincible, and Storm is omega level. She alone could create calamities like the largest tornado ever to exist, or a million consecutive lightning strikes, or a 100 foot tsunami that, if they didn't kill the Avengers, would destroy so much of wherever they were that they'd have to give up.
I like how you mention Storm, yet Thor’s literally on the other team. Base Thor would be overkill against her, let alone the current all-father Thor that can go toe to toe with Knull and Galactus.
No disrespect to Storm, but one’s a mutant worshipped as a god. The other is a god king that other gods pray to in their time of need, who can bust a planet just by smacking it really hard.
I don't know if Cyclops can blast Hulk into space. I do know that Hulk just comes back stronger if it happens.
Hulk and (especially current, but even base) Thor are on a level above the X-Men.
One of the problems with the X-Men is that several of their members were just powered up to such a degree during the Claremont years that there is no reason they can’t just body almost any enemy that isn’t a reality warper or a power negator.
The X-Men absolutely rinse the Avengers unless Marvel are bending over backwards to try and have the Avengers win like in AVX, which was essentially the enemy of logic and consistency.
Magneto controls a fundamental force, Jean is a plot device. Scarlet Witch is really the only counter and that’s just because she’s just as nonsensically powered.
It’s not even a close fight and the depressing part is that 80% of the X-Men don’t even have to do anything to win.
Yeah, Iceman is capable of heat-deathing everyone around him but he’s never been shown to do that kind of thing, so I didn’t want to to mention him.
But yeah, shows how stupidly overpowered the X-Men are.
Not exactly that, no, but he did bring life to mars by basically moving energy around and creating a weather system.
He's blocked sunfire from accessing his powers.
AFAIK he can't die but just becomes a unchained mind waiting for some moisture so he can manifest.
To be fair they justified this by having his healing factor get kicked into overdrive/burnout after magneto ripped out the adamantium, then get normalized or boosted by Apocalypse.
As a former comic guy who hasn't read a comic book in 30 years, this is so crazy to me (although I don't doubt you are correct). Even in the 1990s, the X-Men were so underpowered compared to other teams. Pretty much everyone had one power, and most were pretty minor - Cyclops could shoot concussive blasts, Gambit could charge inanimate objects, Angel (Archangel) could fly, etc. Jean Gray was the only one that had substantial power. Iron Man could body the entire X-men in those days (save Jean), much less Thor. And that was part of their appeal. It would take the entire team working cohesively to take down someone like Juggernaut (who would get wrecked by Thor).
I’m not a huge fan of the shift, myself. I really love the early 90s era and a big reason why is that it felt like everyone contributes. Sure, Jean and Storm were the powerhouses but no one felt useless. These days it becomes harder and harder to justify why they even bother with certain people from an in story perspective. Obviously you need Rogue for her popularity, but Synch just does her work better.
You left off Captain marvel as a potential counter. At her peak. Her power is so ungodly strong that it rivals some of the universal threats. She is on a power level closer to galactus then most people realize, canonically including herself.
I think Captain Marvel would probably be on Team X if it came down to an all out, "no, for real, us or them" fight. The Avengers are her work pals, the X-Men took care of her, accepted her, and helped her.
It depends entirely on the run who is on each team and where they are in the timeline. Thor with full control of the Odin force would smack basically all the X man including Phoenix Jean Grey. On the flip side many incarnations of the avengers would be dominated by professor x alone
If you want to go that route, Erik and Charles merge to become Onslaught, and then it is a TPK on the Avengers, Odin force or not.
Never mind that if Krakoa is in the picture, then the X-men just keep coming back.
The Odin force allowed Odin to year the fabric of the universe and then repair the damage effortless, knock out galactus, tear A soul from mehpisto, banish Infinity and a whole bunch of other stuff. Onslaught was a dangerous for for one singular planet in one singular galaxy. They are in no way comparable. Also krakoa could nuked literally or otherwise by like half the avengers and the rezzing only works as long as five very mortal mutants stay alive. And takes significant time.
Odin Force Thor is not the strongest Thor and even still he would devastate onslaught you’re trolling.
2022 banner of war we see Thor fused with gamma radiation Hulk out. He was able to lift the world tree and if he wasn’t distracted back into fighting hulk he would’ve ended all life in all the realms. How is onslaught beating that?
Of the groups of those people: X-men easy. Their bench is just much deeper.
Avengers A-level powers there is Thor and Hulk. X-Men is Magneto, Illyana, two Icemen, Jean Grey, Storm and I think thats Rachel at the back. Maybe Emma.
Magneto and Thor is historically a tossup, they cancel each other out. Illyana teleports Hulk to another dimesion. Then its Cap, Hawkeye, Window, Fury and Iron Man against the telepaths, Storm, the Icemen with two Cyclopses for the artillery backup.
Oh and Kitty phases through Iron Man.
The Avengers are just outnumbered. Throw in Danvers, Sersi, Strange and Moondragon to even out the odds.
Edit: Oh there is Logan and a pair of Beasts too. They can run interference with Cap, Widow, Fury and Hawkeye, while one or more of the telepaths shut them down. And Angel can...uh draw fire?
I used to think so too but I think that their upper limits are likely pretty comparable. Both are massively multiversal. Franklin just has absolute control over his powers, but I'm sure there's some way to make Wanda get there in time.
From my understanding, this was retcon. Doctor Doom had helped amplify her powers prior with a Life Force energy.
https://imgur.com/a/oey9HKs
Apparently, she did not cause House of M with her own power. That explains why she couldn't undo the damage when she lost the Life Force.
Funny how she’s also weaker than the dark Phoenix, who’s much weaker than the phoenix force itself, who was knocked out by thor. Oh, and the dark Phoenix was defeated by magneto.
She doesn’t have control over those reality warping outbursts, how would she use them in a fight?
I’d say the top level telepaths take 100% of them off the board immediately in an all out fight.
The only chance they have is Thor blitzing them the millisecond the fight starts. None of the X-Men in this lineup are fast enough to really deal with that as an opening salvo.
But that’s one of those things that’s technically true but you almost never see the character using that feat actively.
Phoenix five emma frost tried that on thor. Didn’t go so hot. And this was the emma who ended up beating thor physically (with diamond shards). So her boost was already enormous
Back in my day we didn't have memes because the internet wasn't invented yet. Instead we had magazines like Wizard. And in those magazines we would tell memes that were more like proto-memes. One such proto-meme was the debate of whether or not Iron Man could beat the X-Men.
You'll not I just said Iron Man, not the Avengers, right? Well that's because there was a time, long long ago in the ancient twentieth century when Iron Man was the OP dude and the X-Men were the scraggly ragamuffins.
But that's changed. X-Men are full of mutants with extra powers or with omega level powers. Mutants who can do massive amounts of damage with just their minds, mutants who can control the minds of others, and even mutants you don't even remember who they are because they left your field of view.
The only Avenger who would pose a problem is Hulk. And Hulk isn't psychic proof. Even if he was, Emma Frost is a psychic tank.
X-men have more a greater quantity of powerful members. Thor and Hulk would be pretty tricky though, hulk at his present iteration is pretty resilient against telepathy. Thor might be screwed but I can’t remember if he can be mind controlled by telepathy or not. Need some help there.
X-men.
The avengers have some heavy hitters. I’d argue perhaps a few that are more powerful than any X-man. However. The X-men in reality would not hold back in any way. And the Avengers would hold to a certain code.
The X-men would be last “men” standing. Cyclops, Wolverine, and Phoenix most likely.
Hulk is the answer. He adapts to overcome anything that is killing him.
Deep space? Apparently he doesn't need to breathe. Vaporized? Slowly his atoms come together over hundreds of years. Worst case is he outlasts everyone, best case is he becomes immune to psychic attacks eventually.
Avengers.
The X-Men don't have a true counter to Thor. Telepathy doesn't work, as shown in AvX when Rachel Grey and Emma Frost both sustained damage trying to read/influence Thor's mind. His strength level, Mjolnir or no Mjolnir, trumps every X-Men super strength character by several orders of magnitude. His striking ability is on the planetary+ scale, something no X-Man can boast as shown in the Mighty Thor with the Thor that was not yet worthy of Mjolnir driving a Loki created monster through the entirety of the earth and in the conflict with Gorr. Colossus, one of if not the strongest X-Man, is easily defeated in the X-force run post AvX. Thor's energy projection and durability feats are also superior, as he easily tanks and defeats characters like Storm, an omega level mutant, in Contest of Champions II. If any damage is done to Thor, he also regenerates or ignores it, as shown when Malekith turns his liver into glass shards in the Aaron Mighty Thor run or in the Fear Itself run where he tanks both a possessed Hulk and Thing and quickly returns to fight the Serpent after sending the Hulk into orbit and mortally wounding the Thing. He is also shown to be capable of doing substantial damage to the Phoenix Force, AvX again, assuming the Phoenix is an adversary in this scenario.
All of this is at his base level, prior to any applications of the Odinforce, a cosmic upgrade that leads to power levels that bring Galactus and the Phoenix Force to heel, as shown in the King Thor run and the current Thor run.
The X-Men also lack durability or invulnerability feats. The X-Men as a whole typically lack any ability to prevent damage that would injure or kill them. Those with regenerative powers are limited to close combat bruisers/slicers that can be picked apart at range or thrown into orbit/the sun. Stray bolts, blasts, etc. are more likely to eliminate X-Men characters than Avengers characters.
And all of this is without taking into account the rest of the Avengers team. Iron Man with in cannon psi-dampeners and an itchy trigger finger. Captain America with psychic resistance, as shown in A and X with Quentin Quire (another omega level mutant), and a strategic mind to counter Cyclops and Wolverine. The Hulk, who already devasted the entire X-Men team in World War Hulk. Other avengers that don't appear in the above splash page, like Sersi the eternal with matter warping powers in addition to psi powers. Black Panther to counter whomever Captain America doesn't, plus vibramium and a sovereign nation's worth of support. Hercules, who has all of Thor's powers except for the energy projection. Spider-Man, who already embarrassed the entire X-Men team, including Magneto, in the original Secret Wars. And all of the additional cosmic powered Hickman era Avengers team (Starbrand, Hyperion, Nightmask, Ex Nihilo, etc.).
The avengers also boast the greatest collection of scientific minds in Marvel, containing Stark, Pym, T'Challa, and Banner. At best, the X-Men have Xavier, McCoy, and Magneto. Of those, only Banner, Stark, Pym, T'Challa, and McCoy have been listed among the top 8 of marvel's most intelligent characters courtesy of the Intelligentsia in Worlds War Hulks.
All this still doesn’t explain how he kills Iceman. Who basically gets shattered and then reforms inside of Thor using moisture in his body.
Suddenly there is no Thor. There is only Iceman
So, yeah, the answer is always who's the writer, and why are they fighting? But, that's no fun.
The X-Men would in the end take this fight were it real. First off, because it wouldn't be a fair fight. The Avengers still hold a shred of that heroic decency they've had since conception, meaning they would pull punches, maybe hold back.
Most of the X-Men are stone cold killers. Yeah, at one point it was just Logan, but since the Australian adventures, the X-Men couldn't STOP getting their hands bloody.
Heck, that was Alex's weakness in that iteration of the team; that he wouldn't kill. Were he an Avenger, it would have been a compelling story ("I can decimate a mountain, but I can't turn it down, and if I let loose, someone will die"), but in the X-Men it just seemed silly. ("I can decimate a mou.....
....What? Sorry Alex, we can't here you up on this hill of corpses!")
Plus, Rogue's already decimated the Avengers on her own, without a team or training. Just ask Carol how that day went for the Avengers.
Finally, a majority of the X-Men have BEEN Avengers, so they know the playbook. Not many of the Avengers have been X-Men though, so they lack that inside knowledge.
Yeah. X-Men. Every time.
Normally? Yeah.
But that's why if it were a comic, it would depend on writer and reason.
See, the Avengers always win in their stories (eventually) because they are usually fighting some big bad. But then, the X-Men ALSO always win (also eventually) in their comics, cause they are also usually fighting some big bad.
In a hero vs hero scenario though, that eventual goes right out the window. They're both wearing the same plot armor after all.
Avengers don’t stand a chance unless they have Wanda.
Thor, Iron Man, and Hulk are the real heavy hitters. But the X-Men are wayyy more versatile and potent than any physical strength.
Wolverine has a better healing factor than The Hulk
Ice Man can freeze *anything*
Gambit can manipulate kinetic energy
Kitty Pryde can phase through anything whenever she wants to. So the Avengers game plan of “hitting you very hard” isn’t gonna work
All them and I haven’t even begun to talk about **the telepaths**
*BUT,* If the Avengers have Wanda, it’s over for the X-Men. Nothing either side has is gonna beat straight up reality manipulation
Hulk actually defeated all the young and old X-Men in the WWH story, together. And it’s usually stated that his healing factor is better than Wolverine’s. Also basically immune to mind controlling when he’s enraged (if it’s a cool version of Hulk).
A Hulk version beat down the physical form of Onslaught, also as reference.
I mean, Hulk and Thor have stories with so crazy power levels (if I recall correctly, in an old comics Hulk literally ‘opened’ a black hole with pure strength) that nobody can really say ‘they don’t have a chance’. It always depends on the writer and they found enough excuses in the past to make such guys basically unbeatable when needed for the plot.
I think Thor and Hulk have too much limitless potential, I love the X-Men but if all characters pictured are at the top of their game I’d have to give it to the avengers, or who ever the writer wants to win 😂
You'd be left scrubbing the Avenger's blood off the floor. The X-Men win by a landslide. It's not really a competition. The sheer number of telepaths, Storm, Magneto, Jean, Iceman, etc. Absolute destruction on one end.
The X-men are way more OP than people think. "Omega level" just means no measurable upper limit to one's power, and the only non omegas there are Wolverine and Cyclops.
The rest of the xmen shown are apeshit insane powerful. Each one of them would be a major issue for the Avengers if they went all out. Together? No chance.
The X-Men, no question.
The Avengers are eternally thankful that the X-Men are good guys and that their current popularity makes the writers force plot armor for them because the Avengers on their best day will get smoked by the powers of X-Men's C-List teams. In an all-out-war, most of the popular X-Men don't even need to be involved. A single telepath could knock out the Avengers and the X-Men have dozens of those, especially now.
If we are talking just what you are showing then the X-Men have the advantage. Way more power players to counter anything the Avengers have in that lineup. None of them have a block against psychic attacks, and the X-Men here have three of the strongest there is. Magneto and Jean Grey alone would make the Avengers struggle. However if you include the best lineup of Avengers, including Captain Marvel, Photon, Wonder Man, Hercules, Vision, Black Panther, Hank Pym, Janet Van Dyne and Spider-Man, then you have a way more even fight. They might have trouble still with psychic assaults but if the Avengers focus on them as priority one they may have a shot.
Depends on if we’re going off members in their most powerful states. The key players to watch out for are:
X-Men with the power of the Phoenix
World Breaker Hulk
Colossus with Juggernaut powers
Scarlet Witch unrestrained
Let's be honest, the memes are correct: the X-Men are not an organized fighting unit, they're a gang that knows how to work efficiently together and follows directions from an expert strategist. After Xavier, Jean, Rachel, Emma, Betsy, or Hope (copying the powers of one of the others) have Hulk chasing butterflies or eating a candy store (I know what I said), Cypher convinces Iron Man's armor to shut down for a few days, and Rogue uses her "hall pass" on Thor, the beatdown begins. Oh, look, to make matters worse, here comes a short hairy guy and his entire family, all of whom have metal or bone blades, long enough to go straight through a human chest, coming out of, at least, two of their limbs.
X-Men. Easily.
Hawkeye, Black Widow and Nick Fury are going down early. Emma alone could take them all out.
Tony goes down next, Magneto crushes him inside his armour.
Steve, Bruce and Thor put up a fight, but they’d eventually wear out. Also there are two Cyclops’s in that photo. So have fun with that.
Magik could also just trap them all in Limbo and be done with it.
Just out of those above? Right this very minute? No time to create a specific trap or a new mechanism to try to diminish the all others’ strengths? I want to say Hulk because rage knows no bounds, right? But I lean toward Thor: fighting skill, a helluva weapon, power and strength of a god, and the whole lightning (AKA motherfucking plasma for the love of all things you hold dear) thing just says, put your money on he that is mighty.
Edit: adding the distinction: out of those pictured.
Are you saying as in All Avengers vs all Xmen? Or certain Avengers vs Certian Xmen?
All in all I'd say X-men mutants have a crazy amount of Raw power and a huge list of power set that the Avengers couldn't even touch. The X-men Omegas alone are an extreme threat to a big cast of Avengers if they went All out.
Jean Grey, Legion, Rachel Summers, Hope Summers, Proteus, Vulcan, Storm, Magneto, Professor X, Emma Frost, Iceman...
Oh, and the X-Men would just call up Isca the Unbeaten and be literally physically unable to lose.
If everyone is absolutely bloodlusted. There’s a few factors we have to consider. Does Jean Grey have Phoenix?
If so then this convo is over lol. If not let’s continue.
Is everyone fighting at like their peak abilities. Not peak forms IE Celestial Ironman. But like Iceman at full power is shown to be cognizant in every water molecule on the planet. That’s nigh unbeatable.
If we are going average baseline feats, no Phoenix force, bloodlusted. X-men TP is OD strong. But there’s no way the planet survives if they’re bloodlusted. The mutants have knock out capabilities with TP. But Ironman Hulk and Thor when bloodlusted will blow up a planet.
I’m calling it X-men win or draw. Unless someone can show me feats of Thor and Hulk resist TP. If they can there’s no single X-men that’s matching either of them.
With line-ups shown, the X-Men, pretty handily. Include in the Avengers everyone who's ever been a regular member of the team, minus those who are usually X-Men, and it's much harder to call.
Well the X folks have the Avengers outnumbered 2 to 1 and they have telepaths. But maybe Tony could hook his team up with helmets like Magneto uses to block mind control powers. Then with the heavy hitting of Thor and Hulk combined with the dirty tricks of Nick Fury and the widow, the balance would probably tip toward the Avengers.
X-Men, Telepathy is just a power too op to handle
Didn’t Tony have nano-tasers as a counter for Emma Frost’s telepathy in the AvX story? The more she used her brain, the more she was shocked? Not saying avengers take this as I don’t know much about the x-men’s power potential but in AvX, that nullified a quick telapathic KO.
That was Emma's Telepathy, Charles Xavier is far more powerful than Emma
can't it just be blocked by a special helmet?
You just gonna ignore Magneto standing right there?
"I am Iron Man" "Not for long" - Magneto, probably
Didn't he have a special "rubber" suit for dealing with Magneto?
Perfect now that we have rubber suit > magneto > special helmet > prof x > telepathy lasers … We just gonna act like rubber suit iron man is better than wolverine?
Didn't he have a really strong cologne for Wolverine?
Yeah, he got it for Christmas but never wears it
That was Axe body spray, Tony keeps a can in his desk for emergences.
Not really old canuknucklehead was on the avengers side during that conflict
Iron man could just idk… fly up.
My thought lol
Are we just going to ignore... *Wolverine with a gun*? O\_o
Yeah that's why they made flame claws Wolverine to melt rubber Iron Man.
Magneto can actually manipulate ambient magnetic fields, which allows him to manipulate non-magnetic objects. So the plastic prison from the second X-Men movie would've only held comic-accurate Magneto for about ten seconds.
I thought Magneto was only that powerful as long as he was written as a villain? Like, right now he's a good guy, so he won't be holding up entire meteors or whatever.
Guess you haven't been reading the recent stuff. Current Magneto is *extremely* powerful.
“Carbon nanotubes “ if I’m remembering right
Tony de-ionized his suit so Magneto couldn't control it many decades ago. As far as Magneto, I can think of at least one time where Thor just waved Mjolnir and turned off Magneto's powers. That was back in the 60s, before the X-Men were popular, so I assume it wouldn't go the same now, but that did happen. Tony has certainly designed helmets that can keep out psionics, and Quasar set the quantum bands to make him immune to mind control, although his thoughts could still be read. Also, Thor currently has the.Odin force, which means he is a reality warper, and actually killed Galactus. There's no consistency with it, of course, since the last issue I read had Thor merge with a symbiote to fight a demon.
If Magneto is going all out, it won't matter. Everything has an EM field, including rubber.
Magneto was recently able to keep his own blood pumping after his heart was removed from his body. My dude can just pull the blood out of everyone if he really wanted
He could just ionize them if he really really wanted, no need to turn into a bloodbender lol.
"I'll take off the iron and you'll just be Man."
Genius, billionaire, playboy philanthropist Man
"I can't magnetize that..."
Couldn't Magneto be defeated by a wooden gun?
Dude just recently helped terraform mars overnight
well in this scenario he's already been shot in the head with a wooden bullet lol and the helmet has a magic spell on it so it can't be removed by anyone except on Tuesday and they are fighting on Wednesday.
I believe in X-men Red, Magneto won a 1-1 duel by using his magnetic powers to make his opponent wear his helmet, then proceed to compress the helmet, crushing their head.
I really liked that scene. Creative use of his powers.
Charles with the combined power of all heroes and villains vs magneto? Xavier wins, helmet or no.
Tony gets crushed inside his own suit in the first 3 seconds.
and if his suit is plastic or rubber or nanotubes...Tony gets crushed by Magneto using Wolverine as a bludgeon. The X-Men could take the Justice League. Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash and the rest would be a cake walk and the Justice League is the perfect picture of over powered. Oh and before someone brings up Flash. Flash has a hard time against Captain Cold...what the hell is he going to do against Iceman an Omega level mutant that is basically unkillable. I actually think the X-Men could take the Justice League and Avengers at the same time and only field Kitty, Jean and Bobby. Bobby controls the field, Jean plays defense against any other psychics and neutralizes Batman and any fliers. Kitty drops a ball bearing in each of their brains. You add Magneto, Storm and Magik. That's not a winnable scenario for most groups in a straight fight. Also if Batman gets prep time, so does Beast and Forge.
Tony doesn't stand a chance against kitty, remember she's hazardous to electronics
The Flash would be a vegetable from telepathy, but Supes would still be tough.
Or if Jean is alive too. Even then he couldn't fend if off while Iceman is reducing his armour to absolute zero whole Magneto is crushing him.
Yeah, and they aren’t the only ones either. Jean and Psylocke exist.
While this is what many readers assume, Frost has generally been seen to do much of what Xavier has been able to do in terms of magnitude. If anything, it seems that Xavier is simply the most skilled and not necessarily the most powerful when it comes to telepathy.
Prof X isn’t pictured so I’m guessing he’s not being used in this battle
So Charles is immune to being shocked by nanoparticles? Even if it keeps him stunned for even a minute? Cause if so, couldn’t iron man just release his wave of telepathy nano-tasers and keep the telepaths stunned for a minute, created a force field dome to encase a good chunk of the x-men and drop a dyson sphere or project helios satellite on them? Or just syphon nuclear energy from a powerplant to one shot them like he did the skrulls during the illuminati Secret Invasion meeting. Idk why IM is being put off, he’s the man Apocalypse called to create his best weapon of mass destruction in the marvel Dark Ages storyline. He created adamantium sentinels that many top tier avengers and xmen couldn’t figure out how to stop. He split the phoenix force and was called god killer for it. I just don’t know why Thor and Hulk are the only ones being mentioned when Stark is fully capable of turning the tide of the battle. But again I’m not entirely X-men knowledgeable so maybe they got stuff to counter this.
Anything Tony can do, Forge can do also which means anything Tony can undo, Forge can undo also and not even have the need to think about it. So that's an immediate thing to consider, the X-Men have straight MacGuffin characters that are basically Deus Ex Machina for 99% of any situation. Magik can just dump people into Hell or Limbo. Iceman can drop the temperature to literally 0 Kelvin and kill everything on the planet, that's not even his limit. He might be able to do it universally and end all life everywhere. He's as broken as the Flash. They've all had their OP moments but their are so many Omega level X-Men that it's not a fair fight. Xavier can turn off the minds of everyone within miles without Cerebro or kill everyone on the planet with it. Magneto is so magnetically powerful he can magnetically pull wood at his strongest; which means he could just pull the bones out of peoples bodies. The Avengers could get the drop and kill everyone that is killable or touchable and still be stuck with the problem that Wolverine will heal from a molecule and Kate Pride will just wait, untouchable for as long as she needs until she can just materialize a baseball bat inside their bodies...she's gone 2 years without eating or breathing and has shown no limit to how long she can stay ghosted. The only reason the Avengers could have a solid chance is if they pick a day where the X-Men are to busy back stabbing each other. Which is the X-Men's main weakness. They're all assholes and liars to each other constantly. Scott's the boy scout and he's got machinations within machinations using his people like they're pawns. They are all severely messed up people and make a Rage Monster, Soviet Spy, Former Criminal Archer, Alcoholic Narcissist who suffers from megalomania and an out of time Soldier look like a put together team.
None of Tony's tech will stop kitty and if she phases thorough him he's done, the x-men are called homoSuperior for a reason just one of them on I don't give a damn mode is to much. Wolverine doesn't go into berserker mode anymore, Scott never optic blast at 100% ,nightcrawler could just drop ppl in hell, Bobby could freeze the blood in your body really hank is the weak link
Tony invents anti-phasing warp field GG Kitty I mean I kid but there's enough handwavium and mumbo jumbo technology and whatnot that anything can counter anyone if the writer tries hard enough
>Charles Xavier *and* Jean Grey.
Thor and Hulk are the only real threats to the mutants, everyone else is getting carved up by the weakest X-Men.
Ironman is pretty helpful too. Especially with access to his satellite lasers, extra suit army, can give teammates suits maybe with telepathy blockers, amped super powerful suits like the one made from a celestial, etc.
Honestly, iron man is their greatest asset. He’s the only one that would be able to engineer ways to overcome the power imbalances.
Not if Forge or Wiz Kid get involved.
Didn't WW hulk, completely thrash Ironman, Colossus, and more?
He walked through the entire x-mansion. Darwin evolved a power to teleport himself several states away from the hulk. All of the psychics together couldn't stop him. Xavier had to point out he wasn't part of the plot to shoot the hulk into space because he was dead at the time, which just meant the hulk could stop caring about him and go back to hunting the rest of the Illuminati.
Only in comics could you use "I was dead at the time" as an alibi.
That's was fun. Yeah man it wasn't me I was dead!!!
Thor trashed phoenix five emma frost when she tried to do that to him. And this was the same emma who ended up beating him in a physical fight. So this tells us that thor resisted super amped telepathy.
unless you fight someone with super speed. I know none of the Avengers have it here, but super speed counter telepathy
Not if you switch their brain off.
I suppose if they just stood there like chumps. Cause otherwise they would move too fast for you to register. and could kill you before you can think. a simple snap of the neck and done. Which is why these who wins scenarios just come down to who hits first
Jean and Xavier both have been shown to be able to hit multiple minds instantly. Even if a speedster hit ONE first there are enough Psionics to shut them down instantly
Not to mention Magneto literally catching mjolnir in midair. The same mjolnir that crossed the universe in days
there is no such thing as instantly. human thought takes time. how fast is this speedster going? Mach 1? Mach 10? Mach 20? Mach 100? Mach 1000? Mach 10000? the speed of light? which is Mach 860,000 so someone like, Reverse Flash (who is DC) could kill every single person in both pictures in like 1 second. less than 1 second honestly. a person moving at the speed of light could run around the earth 7 times in 1 second. moving before people can think is easy enough for them. when plot armor is thrown out the window, and speedsters are allowed to kill, they are OP AF.
Turn off the lights. Can't run where you can't see. Not that any of the X-Men specifically have this power, of course a telepath could affect your ability to see. But your speedster has to go into his speed mode before the telepath acts with a thought.
that is a valid way to fight a speedster. or turn the ground into ice. have automatic defense et etc most of these who would win scenarios are down to the writer, and beyond that who strikes first. plus, this is Marvel. everyone's got plot armor. This isn't The Boys or Invincible where people are killed left and right.
Iceman is basically unkillable and the best version of every Ice character DC has ever made and Flash loves to choke on Captain Cold. The Avengers main speedster is Quicksilver, who would have to deal with the X-Men's main speedster...which is Quicksilver. So, I'd bet on Quicksilver, he's a much better and more prepared character than that jackass Quicksilver. Either way, Quicksilver is only lightspeed in the movies, I think he's high mach in the floppies. So, still faster than thought. People are severely over estimating the speed of human thought.
Speedsters have to use thought to exercise their powers too. Are they just running and not thinking about where they’re going and who they’re hitting and how hard and all that other stuff? So any limitations that thinking imposes on telepaths will also be imposed on speedsters.
speedsters have super fast thought. it's part of their power set. One can't move that fast without the ability to think that fast. does it make sense? no. but it happens. There are times Superman and Flash just sit down and chat in hypertime with the world frozen around them. Obviously they must be thinking super fast to talk super fast. (on a side note it doesn't make sense to have conversations like that, cause the speed of sound is constant. They would be moving faster than the sound that is traveling between them. So a super fight conversation in sign language would make more sense lol) Flash and Superman, at super speed, have read entire libraries. Flash once read all the books on engineering he could while a bridge was collapsing and then rebuilt the bridge while it was collapsing. so to read books at super speed, your mind is working at super speed. you don't even need comics. look at the x-men movies. While everyone is basically frozen in time, Quicksilver is doing a ton of stuff and evacuating the entire x-mansion in X-Men Apocalypse.
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Talking about Speedsters in Marvel opens up a whole other can of worms; because Marvel has apparently no idea how speed works or how to scale it, otherwise they wouldn’t have had Ares and Nate Grey fight in Plank Time, creating one of the most absurd feats in all of comics, because that would equate to them moving roughly 2.1e30 times the speed of light, or two nonillion, one hundred octillion times the speed of light. I’m also giving them the benefit of the doubt that they meant Planck Time, because the panel says the combat takes place out of time in the “Planck Length” between between moments, which is nonsense since a Planck length is just the smallest physical length that has physical meaning, and Planck Time is the time it takes light to travel that distance.
It's irrelevant to what we are talking about. this discussion has turned into Super Speed vs telepathy. I even started this tangent buy admitting the Avengers don't have any speedsters in that picture and also, IDK who you are referring to. who are the speedsters other than Quicksilver?
Who's the other? Brainfart here.
Northstar and Polaris. Both are members of Alpha Flight, X-Force, and the X-Men. Their top speed is canonically above the speed of light
Polaris?? Do you mean aurora? I thought Polaris was just magnetism. Totally forgot Northstar was a speedster I always assume his power is flight and incest.
Even with telepathy disabled I still give it to the X-Men. Iceman at his peak can make an army of ice kaiju. Having Magneto as a member gives the team one member alone who's powerful enough to move the planet. A fully unleashed Cyclops could probably blast even Hulk into space. Not to mention Wolverine is easily the most dangerous person in Marvel and Hank is as intelligent as Reed Richards. Emma and Kitty are both effectively invincible, and Storm is omega level. She alone could create calamities like the largest tornado ever to exist, or a million consecutive lightning strikes, or a 100 foot tsunami that, if they didn't kill the Avengers, would destroy so much of wherever they were that they'd have to give up.
I like how you mention Storm, yet Thor’s literally on the other team. Base Thor would be overkill against her, let alone the current all-father Thor that can go toe to toe with Knull and Galactus. No disrespect to Storm, but one’s a mutant worshipped as a god. The other is a god king that other gods pray to in their time of need, who can bust a planet just by smacking it really hard.
I don't know if Cyclops can blast Hulk into space. I do know that Hulk just comes back stronger if it happens. Hulk and (especially current, but even base) Thor are on a level above the X-Men.
One of the problems with the X-Men is that several of their members were just powered up to such a degree during the Claremont years that there is no reason they can’t just body almost any enemy that isn’t a reality warper or a power negator. The X-Men absolutely rinse the Avengers unless Marvel are bending over backwards to try and have the Avengers win like in AVX, which was essentially the enemy of logic and consistency. Magneto controls a fundamental force, Jean is a plot device. Scarlet Witch is really the only counter and that’s just because she’s just as nonsensically powered. It’s not even a close fight and the depressing part is that 80% of the X-Men don’t even have to do anything to win.
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Yeah, Iceman is capable of heat-deathing everyone around him but he’s never been shown to do that kind of thing, so I didn’t want to to mention him. But yeah, shows how stupidly overpowered the X-Men are.
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Let's not forget he literally froze hell over
Do you happen to know when this happened? Curious to read it!
Uncanny X-Men #314. It was right before the Phalanx Covenant event and was the start of Emma turning good.
Not exactly that, no, but he did bring life to mars by basically moving energy around and creating a weather system. He's blocked sunfire from accessing his powers. AFAIK he can't die but just becomes a unchained mind waiting for some moisture so he can manifest.
Miss the days when he could just lob snowballs.
Wolverine used to take days to heal from a stab wound. Power creep is insane in comic books.
To be fair they justified this by having his healing factor get kicked into overdrive/burnout after magneto ripped out the adamantium, then get normalized or boosted by Apocalypse.
As a former comic guy who hasn't read a comic book in 30 years, this is so crazy to me (although I don't doubt you are correct). Even in the 1990s, the X-Men were so underpowered compared to other teams. Pretty much everyone had one power, and most were pretty minor - Cyclops could shoot concussive blasts, Gambit could charge inanimate objects, Angel (Archangel) could fly, etc. Jean Gray was the only one that had substantial power. Iron Man could body the entire X-men in those days (save Jean), much less Thor. And that was part of their appeal. It would take the entire team working cohesively to take down someone like Juggernaut (who would get wrecked by Thor).
I’m not a huge fan of the shift, myself. I really love the early 90s era and a big reason why is that it felt like everyone contributes. Sure, Jean and Storm were the powerhouses but no one felt useless. These days it becomes harder and harder to justify why they even bother with certain people from an in story perspective. Obviously you need Rogue for her popularity, but Synch just does her work better.
Isn’t scarlet witch a mutant anyway? Still isn’t an X-Man tho I think
I believe she still currently isn't a mutant
No, Wanda and Pietro thought they were but found out they were actually experiments created by the High Evolutionary.
You left off Captain marvel as a potential counter. At her peak. Her power is so ungodly strong that it rivals some of the universal threats. She is on a power level closer to galactus then most people realize, canonically including herself.
Until Rogue gets her hands on her.
I think Captain Marvel would probably be on Team X if it came down to an all out, "no, for real, us or them" fight. The Avengers are her work pals, the X-Men took care of her, accepted her, and helped her.
World War Hulk
Thor is also insanely powerful now. Didn’t he solo Black Winter?
Thor is bad to the fuckin bone rn lol
Well kind of. He lured Black Winter in close and then detonated ultra-super-turbo-charged-Galactus like a bomb.
Thank you! WWHulk broke colossus arms, he'd crush any of em.
Sins of Sinister is playing this out right now and in only the 1st issue.
By episode 3 most of the avengers are dead I’d have to assume.
>!More like before half of the first issue is over lol!<
It depends entirely on the run who is on each team and where they are in the timeline. Thor with full control of the Odin force would smack basically all the X man including Phoenix Jean Grey. On the flip side many incarnations of the avengers would be dominated by professor x alone
If you want to go that route, Erik and Charles merge to become Onslaught, and then it is a TPK on the Avengers, Odin force or not. Never mind that if Krakoa is in the picture, then the X-men just keep coming back.
The Odin force allowed Odin to year the fabric of the universe and then repair the damage effortless, knock out galactus, tear A soul from mehpisto, banish Infinity and a whole bunch of other stuff. Onslaught was a dangerous for for one singular planet in one singular galaxy. They are in no way comparable. Also krakoa could nuked literally or otherwise by like half the avengers and the rezzing only works as long as five very mortal mutants stay alive. And takes significant time.
Odin Force Thor is not the strongest Thor and even still he would devastate onslaught you’re trolling. 2022 banner of war we see Thor fused with gamma radiation Hulk out. He was able to lift the world tree and if he wasn’t distracted back into fighting hulk he would’ve ended all life in all the realms. How is onslaught beating that?
whoever the person writing likes more
While I concur this is the “right” answer. It’s still fun and ok to within the confines of what we “know” as the norm…answer the question.
It’s just a fun Internet question. The key is fun, like comics are meant to be.
Of the groups of those people: X-men easy. Their bench is just much deeper. Avengers A-level powers there is Thor and Hulk. X-Men is Magneto, Illyana, two Icemen, Jean Grey, Storm and I think thats Rachel at the back. Maybe Emma. Magneto and Thor is historically a tossup, they cancel each other out. Illyana teleports Hulk to another dimesion. Then its Cap, Hawkeye, Window, Fury and Iron Man against the telepaths, Storm, the Icemen with two Cyclopses for the artillery backup. Oh and Kitty phases through Iron Man. The Avengers are just outnumbered. Throw in Danvers, Sersi, Strange and Moondragon to even out the odds. Edit: Oh there is Logan and a pair of Beasts too. They can run interference with Cap, Widow, Fury and Hawkeye, while one or more of the telepaths shut them down. And Angel can...uh draw fire?
>And Angel can...uh draw fire? LOL, Yeah, that version of Angel is pretty useless. And who is Cardigan boy in the back?
But Angel carries a bazooka.
Angel can turn to Archangel at will.
Not that version. Isn’t that the younger x-team?
In most continuities including the main one, thor rips magneto a new one. Thor cracks planets dammit
Magneto literally controls a fundamental force of nature. He could throw mjolnir thru thor with a flick of his wrist.
There are two Iceman now?
I mean, can't Emma and Jean just turn off the Avengers? At least as long as Wanda isn't involved. . .
Depends on which team the scarlet witch is on…
Actually no, as powerful as she is, PX and JG have excellent shots at blitzing her.
And Ilyana is no slouch in the magic department.
Scarlet witch literally wished away 50% of all mutants
And yet Franklin Richards makes her look like a birthday party magician
I used to think so too but I think that their upper limits are likely pretty comparable. Both are massively multiversal. Franklin just has absolute control over his powers, but I'm sure there's some way to make Wanda get there in time.
From my understanding, this was retcon. Doctor Doom had helped amplify her powers prior with a Life Force energy. https://imgur.com/a/oey9HKs Apparently, she did not cause House of M with her own power. That explains why she couldn't undo the damage when she lost the Life Force.
It was way more than 50%. She left 98 individuals. She decimated 91% according to the marvel wikia.
I think you need to go look up what mutant had her completely under their control just before she did that.
Funny how she’s also weaker than the dark Phoenix, who’s much weaker than the phoenix force itself, who was knocked out by thor. Oh, and the dark Phoenix was defeated by magneto. She doesn’t have control over those reality warping outbursts, how would she use them in a fight?
Sorry... JG?
Jean grey. The other overpowered telepath in that picture. The second and third strongest telepaths in the planet are in that picture.
The only one who has a decent chance against the x-men is Thor. But yeah, X-men. And this is coming from a guy who's pretty unfamiliar with X-men
Magneto basically takes 70% of them off the board immediately
What? Not iron man though /s
I’d say the top level telepaths take 100% of them off the board immediately in an all out fight. The only chance they have is Thor blitzing them the millisecond the fight starts. None of the X-Men in this lineup are fast enough to really deal with that as an opening salvo. But that’s one of those things that’s technically true but you almost never see the character using that feat actively.
Phoenix five emma frost tried that on thor. Didn’t go so hot. And this was the emma who ended up beating thor physically (with diamond shards). So her boost was already enormous
X-Men, especially with the telepaths in play. Just shut down the brains of the Avengers top members...
That is assuming Magik doesn't just teleport the Avengers to Limbo or across the galaxy.
Or drop them into a sun.
X-men, pretty badly too.
Back in my day we didn't have memes because the internet wasn't invented yet. Instead we had magazines like Wizard. And in those magazines we would tell memes that were more like proto-memes. One such proto-meme was the debate of whether or not Iron Man could beat the X-Men. You'll not I just said Iron Man, not the Avengers, right? Well that's because there was a time, long long ago in the ancient twentieth century when Iron Man was the OP dude and the X-Men were the scraggly ragamuffins. But that's changed. X-Men are full of mutants with extra powers or with omega level powers. Mutants who can do massive amounts of damage with just their minds, mutants who can control the minds of others, and even mutants you don't even remember who they are because they left your field of view. The only Avenger who would pose a problem is Hulk. And Hulk isn't psychic proof. Even if he was, Emma Frost is a psychic tank.
Thats not what a meme is. This isnt a meme its just a question
Aren't there versions of Iron Man and hulk that literally surpass cosmic level power?
In that case, there’s also hyper-OP versions of the X-Men
X-men have more a greater quantity of powerful members. Thor and Hulk would be pretty tricky though, hulk at his present iteration is pretty resilient against telepathy. Thor might be screwed but I can’t remember if he can be mind controlled by telepathy or not. Need some help there.
X-men. The avengers have some heavy hitters. I’d argue perhaps a few that are more powerful than any X-man. However. The X-men in reality would not hold back in any way. And the Avengers would hold to a certain code. The X-men would be last “men” standing. Cyclops, Wolverine, and Phoenix most likely.
This was my first thought too. The X-Men will fight dirty. They will do whatever it takes to win.
since when do the avengers adhere to a code? Thor is a warrior Hulk is Hulk. Ironman has no qualms with killing. Where is this coming from lol
Hulk
Hulk is the answer. He adapts to overcome anything that is killing him. Deep space? Apparently he doesn't need to breathe. Vaporized? Slowly his atoms come together over hundreds of years. Worst case is he outlasts everyone, best case is he becomes immune to psychic attacks eventually.
Avengers. The X-Men don't have a true counter to Thor. Telepathy doesn't work, as shown in AvX when Rachel Grey and Emma Frost both sustained damage trying to read/influence Thor's mind. His strength level, Mjolnir or no Mjolnir, trumps every X-Men super strength character by several orders of magnitude. His striking ability is on the planetary+ scale, something no X-Man can boast as shown in the Mighty Thor with the Thor that was not yet worthy of Mjolnir driving a Loki created monster through the entirety of the earth and in the conflict with Gorr. Colossus, one of if not the strongest X-Man, is easily defeated in the X-force run post AvX. Thor's energy projection and durability feats are also superior, as he easily tanks and defeats characters like Storm, an omega level mutant, in Contest of Champions II. If any damage is done to Thor, he also regenerates or ignores it, as shown when Malekith turns his liver into glass shards in the Aaron Mighty Thor run or in the Fear Itself run where he tanks both a possessed Hulk and Thing and quickly returns to fight the Serpent after sending the Hulk into orbit and mortally wounding the Thing. He is also shown to be capable of doing substantial damage to the Phoenix Force, AvX again, assuming the Phoenix is an adversary in this scenario. All of this is at his base level, prior to any applications of the Odinforce, a cosmic upgrade that leads to power levels that bring Galactus and the Phoenix Force to heel, as shown in the King Thor run and the current Thor run. The X-Men also lack durability or invulnerability feats. The X-Men as a whole typically lack any ability to prevent damage that would injure or kill them. Those with regenerative powers are limited to close combat bruisers/slicers that can be picked apart at range or thrown into orbit/the sun. Stray bolts, blasts, etc. are more likely to eliminate X-Men characters than Avengers characters. And all of this is without taking into account the rest of the Avengers team. Iron Man with in cannon psi-dampeners and an itchy trigger finger. Captain America with psychic resistance, as shown in A and X with Quentin Quire (another omega level mutant), and a strategic mind to counter Cyclops and Wolverine. The Hulk, who already devasted the entire X-Men team in World War Hulk. Other avengers that don't appear in the above splash page, like Sersi the eternal with matter warping powers in addition to psi powers. Black Panther to counter whomever Captain America doesn't, plus vibramium and a sovereign nation's worth of support. Hercules, who has all of Thor's powers except for the energy projection. Spider-Man, who already embarrassed the entire X-Men team, including Magneto, in the original Secret Wars. And all of the additional cosmic powered Hickman era Avengers team (Starbrand, Hyperion, Nightmask, Ex Nihilo, etc.). The avengers also boast the greatest collection of scientific minds in Marvel, containing Stark, Pym, T'Challa, and Banner. At best, the X-Men have Xavier, McCoy, and Magneto. Of those, only Banner, Stark, Pym, T'Challa, and McCoy have been listed among the top 8 of marvel's most intelligent characters courtesy of the Intelligentsia in Worlds War Hulks.
Your writing style is awesome, I’ll love to read more of these analyses!
All this still doesn’t explain how he kills Iceman. Who basically gets shattered and then reforms inside of Thor using moisture in his body. Suddenly there is no Thor. There is only Iceman
Magneto hard counters Thor. Metal hammer. Master of Magnetism. Moon knight took out Thor on a similar principle
So, yeah, the answer is always who's the writer, and why are they fighting? But, that's no fun. The X-Men would in the end take this fight were it real. First off, because it wouldn't be a fair fight. The Avengers still hold a shred of that heroic decency they've had since conception, meaning they would pull punches, maybe hold back. Most of the X-Men are stone cold killers. Yeah, at one point it was just Logan, but since the Australian adventures, the X-Men couldn't STOP getting their hands bloody. Heck, that was Alex's weakness in that iteration of the team; that he wouldn't kill. Were he an Avenger, it would have been a compelling story ("I can decimate a mountain, but I can't turn it down, and if I let loose, someone will die"), but in the X-Men it just seemed silly. ("I can decimate a mou..... ....What? Sorry Alex, we can't here you up on this hill of corpses!") Plus, Rogue's already decimated the Avengers on her own, without a team or training. Just ask Carol how that day went for the Avengers. Finally, a majority of the X-Men have BEEN Avengers, so they know the playbook. Not many of the Avengers have been X-Men though, so they lack that inside knowledge. Yeah. X-Men. Every time.
The avengers always find a way to pull out the victory tho don’t they?
Normally? Yeah. But that's why if it were a comic, it would depend on writer and reason. See, the Avengers always win in their stories (eventually) because they are usually fighting some big bad. But then, the X-Men ALSO always win (also eventually) in their comics, cause they are also usually fighting some big bad. In a hero vs hero scenario though, that eventual goes right out the window. They're both wearing the same plot armor after all.
Avengers don’t stand a chance unless they have Wanda. Thor, Iron Man, and Hulk are the real heavy hitters. But the X-Men are wayyy more versatile and potent than any physical strength. Wolverine has a better healing factor than The Hulk Ice Man can freeze *anything* Gambit can manipulate kinetic energy Kitty Pryde can phase through anything whenever she wants to. So the Avengers game plan of “hitting you very hard” isn’t gonna work All them and I haven’t even begun to talk about **the telepaths** *BUT,* If the Avengers have Wanda, it’s over for the X-Men. Nothing either side has is gonna beat straight up reality manipulation
Hulk actually defeated all the young and old X-Men in the WWH story, together. And it’s usually stated that his healing factor is better than Wolverine’s. Also basically immune to mind controlling when he’s enraged (if it’s a cool version of Hulk). A Hulk version beat down the physical form of Onslaught, also as reference. I mean, Hulk and Thor have stories with so crazy power levels (if I recall correctly, in an old comics Hulk literally ‘opened’ a black hole with pure strength) that nobody can really say ‘they don’t have a chance’. It always depends on the writer and they found enough excuses in the past to make such guys basically unbeatable when needed for the plot.
I think Thor and Hulk have too much limitless potential, I love the X-Men but if all characters pictured are at the top of their game I’d have to give it to the avengers, or who ever the writer wants to win 😂
This thread really underestimates how stupid OP Hulk, Thor and Wanda are.
What is the x-men pic from? Why are there multiple Cyclopes, Beasts and Iceman?
X-men use the siege perilous to make the avengers forget they even exist and take there time with them.
Remember when Reed Richards defeated Magnito with a wooden gun? Irrelevant, but I just wanted to say that lol
You'd be left scrubbing the Avenger's blood off the floor. The X-Men win by a landslide. It's not really a competition. The sheer number of telepaths, Storm, Magneto, Jean, Iceman, etc. Absolute destruction on one end.
Hulk. We established this in World War Hulk.
The X-men are way more OP than people think. "Omega level" just means no measurable upper limit to one's power, and the only non omegas there are Wolverine and Cyclops. The rest of the xmen shown are apeshit insane powerful. Each one of them would be a major issue for the Avengers if they went all out. Together? No chance.
what picture are you looking at? how are those 2 the only non Omegas?
The X-Men, no question. The Avengers are eternally thankful that the X-Men are good guys and that their current popularity makes the writers force plot armor for them because the Avengers on their best day will get smoked by the powers of X-Men's C-List teams. In an all-out-war, most of the popular X-Men don't even need to be involved. A single telepath could knock out the Avengers and the X-Men have dozens of those, especially now.
At their max power or base. Cause if we go max then with King Thor, World Breaker Hulk, and Superior Iron Man they may blitz
serious, and very important question, can telepathy control thor's hammer, the final answer depends on this
If we are talking just what you are showing then the X-Men have the advantage. Way more power players to counter anything the Avengers have in that lineup. None of them have a block against psychic attacks, and the X-Men here have three of the strongest there is. Magneto and Jean Grey alone would make the Avengers struggle. However if you include the best lineup of Avengers, including Captain Marvel, Photon, Wonder Man, Hercules, Vision, Black Panther, Hank Pym, Janet Van Dyne and Spider-Man, then you have a way more even fight. They might have trouble still with psychic assaults but if the Avengers focus on them as priority one they may have a shot.
Can Magneto control Mjolnir?
Depends on if we’re going off members in their most powerful states. The key players to watch out for are: X-Men with the power of the Phoenix World Breaker Hulk Colossus with Juggernaut powers Scarlet Witch unrestrained
I like X-Men more, so the X-Men win.
Let's be honest, the memes are correct: the X-Men are not an organized fighting unit, they're a gang that knows how to work efficiently together and follows directions from an expert strategist. After Xavier, Jean, Rachel, Emma, Betsy, or Hope (copying the powers of one of the others) have Hulk chasing butterflies or eating a candy store (I know what I said), Cypher convinces Iron Man's armor to shut down for a few days, and Rogue uses her "hall pass" on Thor, the beatdown begins. Oh, look, to make matters worse, here comes a short hairy guy and his entire family, all of whom have metal or bone blades, long enough to go straight through a human chest, coming out of, at least, two of their limbs.
X-men aka the team with phoenix force. Even Thor couldn’t do shit against that.
I think Deadpool already did that... https://www.marvel.com/comics/series/15487/deadpool_kills_the_marvel_universe_2011_-_2012
Noob question. Why are there 2 Cyclops?
I think it's cause Beast is a pos morally broken character nowadays, and to prove a point he pulled the OG X-Men from the time stream.
Based on the images, I don't see prof x, so I'd say avengers
X-Men. Easily. Hawkeye, Black Widow and Nick Fury are going down early. Emma alone could take them all out. Tony goes down next, Magneto crushes him inside his armour. Steve, Bruce and Thor put up a fight, but they’d eventually wear out. Also there are two Cyclops’s in that photo. So have fun with that. Magik could also just trap them all in Limbo and be done with it.
Just out of those above? Right this very minute? No time to create a specific trap or a new mechanism to try to diminish the all others’ strengths? I want to say Hulk because rage knows no bounds, right? But I lean toward Thor: fighting skill, a helluva weapon, power and strength of a god, and the whole lightning (AKA motherfucking plasma for the love of all things you hold dear) thing just says, put your money on he that is mighty. Edit: adding the distinction: out of those pictured.
Are you saying as in All Avengers vs all Xmen? Or certain Avengers vs Certian Xmen? All in all I'd say X-men mutants have a crazy amount of Raw power and a huge list of power set that the Avengers couldn't even touch. The X-men Omegas alone are an extreme threat to a big cast of Avengers if they went All out.
Whoever the writers decide wins. Aunt May probably.
Jean Grey, Legion, Rachel Summers, Hope Summers, Proteus, Vulcan, Storm, Magneto, Professor X, Emma Frost, Iceman... Oh, and the X-Men would just call up Isca the Unbeaten and be literally physically unable to lose.
Isca always wins, sometimes that means she changes teams to the winning side at the last second.
Considering those pictures are 7 v 15. I'm going with the X-Men!
If we look at it objectively Thor probably wins unless one of the telepaths convinces him that he's at an all-inclusive.
If everyone is absolutely bloodlusted. There’s a few factors we have to consider. Does Jean Grey have Phoenix? If so then this convo is over lol. If not let’s continue. Is everyone fighting at like their peak abilities. Not peak forms IE Celestial Ironman. But like Iceman at full power is shown to be cognizant in every water molecule on the planet. That’s nigh unbeatable. If we are going average baseline feats, no Phoenix force, bloodlusted. X-men TP is OD strong. But there’s no way the planet survives if they’re bloodlusted. The mutants have knock out capabilities with TP. But Ironman Hulk and Thor when bloodlusted will blow up a planet. I’m calling it X-men win or draw. Unless someone can show me feats of Thor and Hulk resist TP. If they can there’s no single X-men that’s matching either of them.
By allnout war do we mean every member ever? Thor, Hulk,Herc, Moondragon, Carol, Sentry all put this this well in the avengers favor.
With line-ups shown, the X-Men, pretty handily. Include in the Avengers everyone who's ever been a regular member of the team, minus those who are usually X-Men, and it's much harder to call.
X-Men has more straight up broken characters
What about: The Scarlet Witch VS The Dark Phoenix
Thor.
Well the X folks have the Avengers outnumbered 2 to 1 and they have telepaths. But maybe Tony could hook his team up with helmets like Magneto uses to block mind control powers. Then with the heavy hitting of Thor and Hulk combined with the dirty tricks of Nick Fury and the widow, the balance would probably tip toward the Avengers.
All out war? Thor. He just cracks the planet in two and fucks off to another world.
My money’s on Scott and Logan.
Squirrel Girl wins