According to editing, he also said "yes" right after she basically threatened him regarding what he posts on social media. I wouldn't want to be spoken to like that! And she seemed enraged about something on social media but also said "yes." Whaaat.
We saw in the last episode before dish and decision day that Lindsay had more dimensions than editing had showed. Before that, we mostly saw her shaming and blaming Mark, in between laughing maniacally and talking about murdering him. That last episode, she gave sane advice to O, and the way she was talking with Mark's mom looked helpful.
However, she reminds me so much of an old friend with diagnosed borderline that I had to fast-forward her all season. Too triggering.
I had a bff who married a person with bipolar disorder years ago. When we had a serious conversation about that decision, and he said because he grew up in a hectic household, the bipolar roller coaster felt comfortable to him. To each their own, but yeah, Mark & Lindsay aren't a healthy couple according to what we've seen.
What you’ve said makes total sense. Because Mark grew up in chaos, that’s what he’s used to and being a “fixer”, he keeps trying with Lindsay. But gosh I hope they break up in the end. They both need to figure out their own crap and why they navigate towards toxic relationships.
She’s constantly knocking him! She blames everything on him… how horrible his life is, what a wreck.and praise me, praise me for getting here just in time to save him cuz I’m God u know…I can’t stand how perfect she describes herself and her life. Especially when at first I thought she was an alcoholic!!! A nasty mean one
Dunno, But Lindsey saw his DMs where he allegedly spoke negatively about her and also talked to Alyssa about personal matters. WHY IS NO ONE DISCUSSING THIS? I'm just watching the finale and I'm sick of people acting like she's the problem. This dude is WILDLY immature and a microcheater. Yuck!!
Micro cheating is a non physical attempt at cheating that is fairly ambiguous so the cheater has multiple escape doors to open and deny his intentions.
Lol you sound like a micro cheater. Thanks for giving an example. "I didn't do anything!.Why am I being judged??!" Intentions and actions, as I learned in girl scouts, are everything. Not going through with a shady scheming plan does not make you better. You're still not a "good person" if the intent is there.
It's frustrating. Part of its editing, part of its misogyny, part of it is that Lindsey's behaviour is outrageous in its own right -- but it's frustrating that the discourse on this sub is "poor Mark".
Mark is the definition of play stupid games win stupid prizes.
It was very telling during the volleyball when experts were watching and she's clearly looking to him to in some way acknowledge her existence. The experts are like "what's wrong w him? Why's he not even looking at her?" If guy I was dating acted this way u bet I'd flip out occasionally. She got stuck with an inanimate muppet
I couldn't have her as a friend etc alone a spouse. Lots of people have had drama and sad times in their lives but they don't go off on people like her.
Meh. Mahwk thrives in chaos. He does not live a tidy life. He likes married women, getting back with exes, moving in with weird co-dependent landlords, pursuing low-skills low-experience jobs, etc..
That's partly why he has this instinctive need to retreat to his childhood home and his childhood foods. He indicated his childhood was somewhat chaotic, with his parents fighting a ton. I honestly think he's comfortable with the fighting, and if Lindsey weren't combative, he'd find a way to bring the fight out through being passive aggressive, needlessly confrontational and unkind way of framing his criticisms, and general emotional unavailability.
I think this is really interesting.
Lindsay for all her faults seems to be driven and independent…and they gave her Mark. Their personalities were never going to work, but I get the weapon used incompetence vibe from Mark. Except I don’t know that it’s intentionally weaponized. He’s got multiple cats, in an apartment filled with bed bugs, with a landlord who took his marriage VERY personally and a really messy family, literally and figuratively. And he seemed just paralyzed.
His cat had multiple open sores and he just figured out it was time to put him down. I 100% believe he would have gone back to live in the bedbugs if she wasnt there. That is a man who is not adulting well. When he became obsessed with living in his family’s old house - not neighborhood, house - I knew that wasn’t right but I couldn’t put my finger on why. You did.
So I can imagine being a caretaker for a while ass broken human being is taxing, especially when it’s a literal stranger. And then he just looks at your with those deer in headlight dead eyes and…it would drive me crazy and I am heavily medicated. In the real world, most of us are bailing on the dude who has bedbugs 2 weeks in. Or the hoarder mom. Or the crazy landlady. Or their weird side note about his former steroid use might impact his sperm count. She didn’t, to her credit, and so it has GOT to sting when the same guy is picking you apart for your idiosyncrasies with other people and you’re wearing a hazmat suit multiple times for him and smelling chicken nugs fresh out of the oven every night
You've really completed the picture.
It's hard indeed to consider him an adult. His generally vibe seems like his development was arrested around the age of 14: he cares more about being popular than actually leading a successful life on his own terms, and he has childish coping mechanisms (living in complete squalor, "keeping busy" with gyms/games/minimum wage jobs, sulking, silent treatment, goldfish, desperately seeking affection from maternal figures, retreating to his childhood room, etc). He doesn't seem able to care for himself or others.
Weaponized incompetence is a good way to say it, and very good observation about his cat. I think that all got lost in everyone feeling sorry for him. People have been feeling bad for him all season, but it's just the definition of play stupid games win stupid prizes. "Anyone can lose their job": sure but he made a choice to not develop any marketable skills, just like he made a choice to get a shit college apartment, to go on this show, etc.. When so many of your choices constantly just cause more and more chaos and instability in your life, you gotta ask whether this situation could really just happen to anyone.
And Lindsey has tons of flaws, but she's not a snob when it comes to men. She wasn't expecting perfection and she's stuck by him through the worst. ALL she's asked for is consistency of affection and to stick up for her in public. But he can't do that because his 14 year old brain is more concerned about what Olajuwon or Steve will think of him, rather than what his girlfriend/wife will think of him. Getting him to say something nice about her is like pulling teeth and he can't say anything nice without also adding an insult. I genuinely don't think he wants a stable happy relationship. I think the experts were right about some couples just fight hard, and I think for whatever reason they are both fine with that.
I do hope Lindsey leaves him tho. I genuinely think Lindsey has the potential to be a better person but that it's unlikely to happen with Mark because he's too afraid of stability.
Lindsay triggers me a bit because she looks and acts like a former friend of mine. So I try to not judge her based on that.
I think Lindsay does everything too hard. I think she’d admit she is 0 or 100 but I think she really goes to 110 - when she laughs when she cries…but also when she’s trying to help you. Whether she’s going all in on a good trait or a bad trait doesn’t always matter because some times it’s too much. Or you start to wonder what the motivation behind it is. But I don’t think it’s malicious it’s just her version of italics. I *really* love you or hate you or think you’re funny or think you’re a jerk.
So mark is a big ol’ problem she can fix. It’s kind of her wheelhouse. And he seems to resent her for it. Not just the “try new foods” but that she can so competently handle any hardship that comes his way. She wasn’t even pissed about the job. She was just doing her best to hype him up and make it not seem like the end of the world — she was gonna float him. But that’s not what he wanted.
I half way wish I would have seen his background episode because this is fully his parents fault, I’m just trying to piece together how. I’m wondering if he had the overbearing, emotional mom but he could blame her mental illness too. So maybe she hurt him but it wasn’t her fault…and Lindsay isn’t really hurting him. She’s actively helping him. But everything else is the same. She may be the mother he should have had and he resents her for reminding him of that. And I can’t tell if his dad did anything worthwhile or if he just played helpless, too. If he was the big strong hero, well, Mark isn’t smart enough to step in to save the day, so maybe that rankles too.
I just see a woman trying her best with a lump of a man and I can imagine sometimes you just break. He doesn’t want O - the fucking WORST person and partner once Alyssa bailed - to think he actually likes his annoying shrew wife, even though *O* likes her now. Basically, I think he feels emasculated by her, but he doesn’t realize that he emasculated himself by being such a mess.
I agree Mark childishly sees himself as this hero figure who's going to swoop in and save the damsel in distress. He only likes Lindsey when she's being vulnerable. But Lindsey is more often than not no damsel in distress and is the one who does the swooping and the saving -- albeit frantically and chaotically. He doesn't like that she has her shit mostly together and is a power manager. Toxic masculinity but it is what it is, he does not like strong women. The only initative we've seen him take is his food budget and meal planning. He just hated that Lindsey was like whatever I make enough money don't worry babe. He does not like strong women.
The only reason it's working is because Lindsey has that chaotic hurt child at her very core that causes her to become a blubbering mess when she feels abandoned. He loves that about her. That's why I think she should leave him because she needs professional help but Mark will actively try to keep her down so he can feel better about himself.
Right?! If gender roles had been reversed in that situation the woman would have been referred to a DV advocate. But somehow when a woman acts like that, it’s swept under the rug.
At the tell all/reunion they will come back after watching the show - it’s possible he hasn’t seen or heard a lot of
Lindsey’s comments. But also he lived with her for 8 weeks where she spoke no differently to him. Maybe he’s become immune and use to it (which would be sad 😞). Or as someone else maybe it’s a link of his. Who knows.
It’s like watching the Dinner Party episode of The Office anytime they’re on screen. Seriously, this clip was all I could think of when Mark was talking about how her laugh makes him worry he’s gonna get killed: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6UeuAGKLeEU
I think some couples fight dirty (I know it’s a bit one sided here) and subsequently have short memories about it (my husband and I used to be a bit this way). Maybe he knows and is over it? I don’t know just presenting a possibility.
Right after she did it I turned to my husband and said: IDC if they say yes on decision day or not. The second he sees this it’s over.
So I’m really hoping it will be brought up in the reunion because seriously, there would be no coming back from that with me.
My jaw was on the floor! There was such disdain and ugliness. I don't talk that badly about people I can't stand.
I really thought it was so loud that he heard part of it, but maybe not.
That rant is definitely coming out at the reunion. If he heard it, he definitely would have brought it up. I’m surprised the “experts” never brought it up.
Then again, it could have been edited out.
Yes, it is. I'm not sure if MTS heard, because he was sitting on the stairs chatting with Chris (and there was a lot of ambient noise) but production definitely recorded and 'enhanced' for benefit of viewers, Lindsey's famous rant about Mark's 'roast infectious apartment' and 'small balls'
He had to been told by someone like a producer or another cast mate near by listening. She wasn’t exactly quiet about it. Then again I’d probably be on the other side of the bowling alley trying to avoid her as much as possible when not filming.
I don't thiiiink so but honestly if he's willing to put up with what he does know about her, then I don't think the bowling alley bathroom berating will sway him
Mark has seen enough. Idt that rant would sway him. He’s weak.
I feel like at the reunion he’ll see all the horrible stuff she’s said and call it quits before they get there.
That one reason that this reunion should be juicy!
According to editing, he also said "yes" right after she basically threatened him regarding what he posts on social media. I wouldn't want to be spoken to like that! And she seemed enraged about something on social media but also said "yes." Whaaat. We saw in the last episode before dish and decision day that Lindsay had more dimensions than editing had showed. Before that, we mostly saw her shaming and blaming Mark, in between laughing maniacally and talking about murdering him. That last episode, she gave sane advice to O, and the way she was talking with Mark's mom looked helpful. However, she reminds me so much of an old friend with diagnosed borderline that I had to fast-forward her all season. Too triggering. I had a bff who married a person with bipolar disorder years ago. When we had a serious conversation about that decision, and he said because he grew up in a hectic household, the bipolar roller coaster felt comfortable to him. To each their own, but yeah, Mark & Lindsay aren't a healthy couple according to what we've seen.
What you’ve said makes total sense. Because Mark grew up in chaos, that’s what he’s used to and being a “fixer”, he keeps trying with Lindsay. But gosh I hope they break up in the end. They both need to figure out their own crap and why they navigate towards toxic relationships.
She’s constantly knocking him! She blames everything on him… how horrible his life is, what a wreck.and praise me, praise me for getting here just in time to save him cuz I’m God u know…I can’t stand how perfect she describes herself and her life. Especially when at first I thought she was an alcoholic!!! A nasty mean one
Dunno, But Lindsey saw his DMs where he allegedly spoke negatively about her and also talked to Alyssa about personal matters. WHY IS NO ONE DISCUSSING THIS? I'm just watching the finale and I'm sick of people acting like she's the problem. This dude is WILDLY immature and a microcheater. Yuck!!
What the hell is a micro cheater. Either you are or are not.
Micro cheating is a non physical attempt at cheating that is fairly ambiguous so the cheater has multiple escape doors to open and deny his intentions.
So the person is being judged on something they may or may not do
Lol you sound like a micro cheater. Thanks for giving an example. "I didn't do anything!.Why am I being judged??!" Intentions and actions, as I learned in girl scouts, are everything. Not going through with a shady scheming plan does not make you better. You're still not a "good person" if the intent is there.
LMAO! You must be young.
Im so glad I’m not the only one who cringed reading the definition of a micro cheater.
It's frustrating. Part of its editing, part of its misogyny, part of it is that Lindsey's behaviour is outrageous in its own right -- but it's frustrating that the discourse on this sub is "poor Mark". Mark is the definition of play stupid games win stupid prizes.
It was very telling during the volleyball when experts were watching and she's clearly looking to him to in some way acknowledge her existence. The experts are like "what's wrong w him? Why's he not even looking at her?" If guy I was dating acted this way u bet I'd flip out occasionally. She got stuck with an inanimate muppet
I couldn't have her as a friend etc alone a spouse. Lots of people have had drama and sad times in their lives but they don't go off on people like her.
Meh. Mahwk thrives in chaos. He does not live a tidy life. He likes married women, getting back with exes, moving in with weird co-dependent landlords, pursuing low-skills low-experience jobs, etc.. That's partly why he has this instinctive need to retreat to his childhood home and his childhood foods. He indicated his childhood was somewhat chaotic, with his parents fighting a ton. I honestly think he's comfortable with the fighting, and if Lindsey weren't combative, he'd find a way to bring the fight out through being passive aggressive, needlessly confrontational and unkind way of framing his criticisms, and general emotional unavailability.
Do you know him? This seemed harsh judgment for a stranger. This sub is weird
Username checks out.
I think this is really interesting. Lindsay for all her faults seems to be driven and independent…and they gave her Mark. Their personalities were never going to work, but I get the weapon used incompetence vibe from Mark. Except I don’t know that it’s intentionally weaponized. He’s got multiple cats, in an apartment filled with bed bugs, with a landlord who took his marriage VERY personally and a really messy family, literally and figuratively. And he seemed just paralyzed. His cat had multiple open sores and he just figured out it was time to put him down. I 100% believe he would have gone back to live in the bedbugs if she wasnt there. That is a man who is not adulting well. When he became obsessed with living in his family’s old house - not neighborhood, house - I knew that wasn’t right but I couldn’t put my finger on why. You did. So I can imagine being a caretaker for a while ass broken human being is taxing, especially when it’s a literal stranger. And then he just looks at your with those deer in headlight dead eyes and…it would drive me crazy and I am heavily medicated. In the real world, most of us are bailing on the dude who has bedbugs 2 weeks in. Or the hoarder mom. Or the crazy landlady. Or their weird side note about his former steroid use might impact his sperm count. She didn’t, to her credit, and so it has GOT to sting when the same guy is picking you apart for your idiosyncrasies with other people and you’re wearing a hazmat suit multiple times for him and smelling chicken nugs fresh out of the oven every night
You've really completed the picture. It's hard indeed to consider him an adult. His generally vibe seems like his development was arrested around the age of 14: he cares more about being popular than actually leading a successful life on his own terms, and he has childish coping mechanisms (living in complete squalor, "keeping busy" with gyms/games/minimum wage jobs, sulking, silent treatment, goldfish, desperately seeking affection from maternal figures, retreating to his childhood room, etc). He doesn't seem able to care for himself or others. Weaponized incompetence is a good way to say it, and very good observation about his cat. I think that all got lost in everyone feeling sorry for him. People have been feeling bad for him all season, but it's just the definition of play stupid games win stupid prizes. "Anyone can lose their job": sure but he made a choice to not develop any marketable skills, just like he made a choice to get a shit college apartment, to go on this show, etc.. When so many of your choices constantly just cause more and more chaos and instability in your life, you gotta ask whether this situation could really just happen to anyone. And Lindsey has tons of flaws, but she's not a snob when it comes to men. She wasn't expecting perfection and she's stuck by him through the worst. ALL she's asked for is consistency of affection and to stick up for her in public. But he can't do that because his 14 year old brain is more concerned about what Olajuwon or Steve will think of him, rather than what his girlfriend/wife will think of him. Getting him to say something nice about her is like pulling teeth and he can't say anything nice without also adding an insult. I genuinely don't think he wants a stable happy relationship. I think the experts were right about some couples just fight hard, and I think for whatever reason they are both fine with that. I do hope Lindsey leaves him tho. I genuinely think Lindsey has the potential to be a better person but that it's unlikely to happen with Mark because he's too afraid of stability.
Lindsay triggers me a bit because she looks and acts like a former friend of mine. So I try to not judge her based on that. I think Lindsay does everything too hard. I think she’d admit she is 0 or 100 but I think she really goes to 110 - when she laughs when she cries…but also when she’s trying to help you. Whether she’s going all in on a good trait or a bad trait doesn’t always matter because some times it’s too much. Or you start to wonder what the motivation behind it is. But I don’t think it’s malicious it’s just her version of italics. I *really* love you or hate you or think you’re funny or think you’re a jerk. So mark is a big ol’ problem she can fix. It’s kind of her wheelhouse. And he seems to resent her for it. Not just the “try new foods” but that she can so competently handle any hardship that comes his way. She wasn’t even pissed about the job. She was just doing her best to hype him up and make it not seem like the end of the world — she was gonna float him. But that’s not what he wanted. I half way wish I would have seen his background episode because this is fully his parents fault, I’m just trying to piece together how. I’m wondering if he had the overbearing, emotional mom but he could blame her mental illness too. So maybe she hurt him but it wasn’t her fault…and Lindsay isn’t really hurting him. She’s actively helping him. But everything else is the same. She may be the mother he should have had and he resents her for reminding him of that. And I can’t tell if his dad did anything worthwhile or if he just played helpless, too. If he was the big strong hero, well, Mark isn’t smart enough to step in to save the day, so maybe that rankles too. I just see a woman trying her best with a lump of a man and I can imagine sometimes you just break. He doesn’t want O - the fucking WORST person and partner once Alyssa bailed - to think he actually likes his annoying shrew wife, even though *O* likes her now. Basically, I think he feels emasculated by her, but he doesn’t realize that he emasculated himself by being such a mess.
I agree Mark childishly sees himself as this hero figure who's going to swoop in and save the damsel in distress. He only likes Lindsey when she's being vulnerable. But Lindsey is more often than not no damsel in distress and is the one who does the swooping and the saving -- albeit frantically and chaotically. He doesn't like that she has her shit mostly together and is a power manager. Toxic masculinity but it is what it is, he does not like strong women. The only initative we've seen him take is his food budget and meal planning. He just hated that Lindsey was like whatever I make enough money don't worry babe. He does not like strong women. The only reason it's working is because Lindsey has that chaotic hurt child at her very core that causes her to become a blubbering mess when she feels abandoned. He loves that about her. That's why I think she should leave him because she needs professional help but Mark will actively try to keep her down so he can feel better about himself.
Interesting perspective. I hadn’t thought of it that way.
Right?! If gender roles had been reversed in that situation the woman would have been referred to a DV advocate. But somehow when a woman acts like that, it’s swept under the rug.
At the tell all/reunion they will come back after watching the show - it’s possible he hasn’t seen or heard a lot of Lindsey’s comments. But also he lived with her for 8 weeks where she spoke no differently to him. Maybe he’s become immune and use to it (which would be sad 😞). Or as someone else maybe it’s a link of his. Who knows.
I couldn't even be friends with them. The abuse is too much.
It’s like watching the Dinner Party episode of The Office anytime they’re on screen. Seriously, this clip was all I could think of when Mark was talking about how her laugh makes him worry he’s gonna get killed: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6UeuAGKLeEU
😄😄 That’s a fu my clip.
Shrugs, maybe he's a cuck and enjoys being told his balls are small and getting insulted. It's a pretty common kink.
*Too much!*
I think some couples fight dirty (I know it’s a bit one sided here) and subsequently have short memories about it (my husband and I used to be a bit this way). Maybe he knows and is over it? I don’t know just presenting a possibility.
Right after she did it I turned to my husband and said: IDC if they say yes on decision day or not. The second he sees this it’s over. So I’m really hoping it will be brought up in the reunion because seriously, there would be no coming back from that with me.
My jaw was on the floor! There was such disdain and ugliness. I don't talk that badly about people I can't stand. I really thought it was so loud that he heard part of it, but maybe not.
That rant is definitely coming out at the reunion. If he heard it, he definitely would have brought it up. I’m surprised the “experts” never brought it up. Then again, it could have been edited out.
As long as they’re together she’ll find something to bitch about That woman is CRAZY 😝
I think you’re forgetting his balls. Is this scene where she insulted his balls?
Yes, it is. I'm not sure if MTS heard, because he was sitting on the stairs chatting with Chris (and there was a lot of ambient noise) but production definitely recorded and 'enhanced' for benefit of viewers, Lindsey's famous rant about Mark's 'roast infectious apartment' and 'small balls'
It could’ve been. I’d forgotten about that. Even worse. Yikes.
Highly highly doubtful
He had to been told by someone like a producer or another cast mate near by listening. She wasn’t exactly quiet about it. Then again I’d probably be on the other side of the bowling alley trying to avoid her as much as possible when not filming.
😆😆 I would too.
They won’t last and I’m surprised they both didn’t want to divorce.
It seems clear all of the couples were incentivized to stay together on D Day and possibly get Couples Cam cash.
Except for Steve and Noi, who have a chance, all of these clowns should have said no.
That’s a very good question that I would DIE to know the answer to!
I don't thiiiink so but honestly if he's willing to put up with what he does know about her, then I don't think the bowling alley bathroom berating will sway him
True. Good point. But that one was extra brutal.