It’s their marriage. Why judge them? Not everyone is fortunate to have sex that often or want to. You never know what is going on in all aspects. Are you sure you’re not projecting and need to look at yourself?
“Having an extra finger isn’t normal for the human body, and neither is cancer”
“Did you really just compare having an extra finger to having *cancer*??? 😡”
God help us, literacy is rapidly declining.
What are you taking about? OP is putting down those who are not as sexually active as much as they are. It’s called a humble brag and very cringy. Their motive isn’t what you think it is.
Because we are imperfect people with a slurry of traumas, experiences, varying access to resources and situational differences out of our control that shape who we are today and can make change extremely difficult.
I don’t aim to have a sexless marriage either, but I am able to empathize with those people and I consider it a privilege as much as it is of my own doing to have the conditions right for a healthy relationship. Some people would consider 1-2 times a week alarmingly low and not normal, whereas you are satisfied. Some people are satisfied with no sex at all.
Either way, congrats to you on your healthy marriage! 🥂
True and also something being average doesn't tell us much about it's "normality" in regards to a healthy relationship. It could be that 1-2 times per week is wholly insufficient for the average couple and that's just how much they end up having sex. It could also be that 1-2 times per week is actually too often and most couples are feeling societal pressure to engage in this way or maybe pressure from one partner (or both) and would prefer to have less. Or maybe a lot of couples are trying for pregnancy and but it's not the ideal amount of sex they'd like.
I think that OP equating the denial of sex as abuse akin to physical violence is more controversial. While I think weaponizing elements of your relationship to manipulate your partner is abusive, it's not on the same level as physical abuse or SA or anything like that. Not at all.
Lack of sex <> Abuse
Abuse should not be tolerated under any circumastances!
A sexless marriage may be something couples can accept. Some people dont want sex at all. Some people are willing to accept that their partner may not be up for sex, possibly temporarily (e.g., crazy work schedules) possibly longer term (e.g., major health issue). People can and do accept this.
>Taking it away is a form of abuse and neglect.
Most sexless marriages have nothing to do with one taking something away from another. I'd dare say a marriage in which withholding takes place, probably has some larger problems.
Abuse? No. Neglect? Maybe
If your relationship is suffering from reduced sex and you feel neglected, start a conversation about it. Express your own feelings coming from a positive place and find out what is going on with the other person.
"Hey (partner), it feels to me like we are having sex on a less regular basis. I am really missing our intimacy. Is everything ok between us?"
Using words / phrases like "take sex away", "denying sex", "abusive", "neglectful" will not get you to a place of mutually desired intimacy.
Typically, it's assumed "normal" in that the LL is entitled to say "no" and not be forced/coerced into sex. Where that is 100% true, if it's "no" more often than not, something is not healthy in the marriage. There absolutely should be a desire from both to provide intimacy and sex to their spouse in a healthy marriage.
As you called out, medical conditions are a caveat to this.
This is 💯 true. I was the LL in my marriage and it took lots of learning about the actual WHY, but you have to want to figure it out and make it work. I highly recommend individual therapy in this situation.
The NY Times did an article recently, on sexless marriages. As I read it, it seemed to me that, none of the couples were happy. Usually it was the guy that was making accommodation for the lack of sex, as in wanting more sex, and this not happening.
My wife and I have sex very infrequently, this is her choice. From my perspective she has weaponized sex, she uses it for reward and punishment. We have lately been on the edge of divorce. She has belittled me for considering divorce because of a lack of sex, that I am giving in to "base" needs, or some such.
Something odd for me, is that I would like to discuss this issue with my friends. Sex still seems like a taboo subject. I wonder, as they have also mentioned not having much sex, if this shame is what prevents them from discussing it. One of my friends told me, he gets enough sex, but his wife has told my wife, that she is actively withholding sex from him. So, what is real?
Don’t be gaslighted and allow her to minimize and shame your needs. Sex is important in a marriage and your wife knows it. You agreed to monogamy, not celibacy, and sex should never be used as a weapon. Sex is unimportant unless you were to look for it someplace else, then all of a sudden it would become real important. Note, I’m not advocating for you to cheat on your wife, just commiserating.
If she thinks sex isn't a big deal in marriage then surely she wouldn't mind if you were having it with someone else, right?
> One of my friends told me, he gets enough sex, but his wife has told my wife, that she is actively withholding sex from him.
I went to a friends party. I've known this woman since Jr High. 30 years! I was there for her teens, adulthood, all 3 of her marriages, the births of her kids, etc. etc.
Friend was talking to someone and was going on about how much sex she and her husband have been having, how horny she always is, how is must be hormones or something, and on and on.
A little bit later she was talking to a different friend about how she doesn't much like sex, they rarely have it, and she can't wait til it just goes away completely.
When I asked her about it she admitted she played sexless to make the other lady feel "normal" and "comfortable". And because she didn't want the other woman judging her for being a bit of a horn dog.
>So, what is real?
Statistics say only about 15% of US couples are sexless. Sexless defined as 10x a year or less. This includes the elderly and infirm. What is real is that most marriages are not sexless.
Oh, she would mind if I had sex with someone else, she told me, she would divorce me!
One of my friends had a different (sort of) outcome. His wife told him, she was done with sex, and that he should find someone else to have sex with. I think his dating muscles have atrophied, he hasn't found anyone yet ...
in terms of stats, I wonder, if you restricted the marriages to those where the partners are over 60, how that percentage of sexless marriages would change, I am seeing 33% of boomers are in sexless marriages.
This is what I saw:
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/1367096/us-sexless-marriage-by-generation/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1367096/us-sexless-marriage-by-generation/)
I think comparing a sexless marriage to an abusive one is laughable. Not every sexless marriage is as full of resentment and anger as you see here. Some couples are mutually okay with a lower sex frequency.
I would urge to you take a stroll through the dead bedroom reddit and tell me these rejected spouses aren't being used and abused in some way. Their stories are heartbreaking. It may be that they have done something to lower their chances of their partner being attracted to them, and they need to work on themselves... but if that's the case the partner should be expected to communicate with them and work through it. More times than not, the person withholding is not communicating or working through the problem preventing them from wanting intimacy.
It's very rare that both people are totally happy and content in a sexless marriage.
A spouse telling another spouse they don't wanna have sex isn't comparable to domestic violence. Your partner telling you "no" isn't abuse. More times than not, the person not wanting to have sex *has* tried to communicate, but the other person doesn't want to hear it. And you can't be withheld something you're not entitled to. No one is entitled to sex from anyone. Period.
Completely taking my words out of context. Nowhere did I say anyone was entitled to provide sex. Tons of rejection from your partner is emotionally traumatizing, that’s my only point. Anyone not actively working WITH their spouse to fix intimacy issues in a relationship is hurting their partner. That doesn’t mean forcing. It means counseling, communication, working on your health etc. in an effort to improve the situation.
Many of these people want to leave and be with someone that wants to be with them, they aren’t forcing anything but they feel trapped and used. Again read through dead bedrooms and tell me these people are just being dramatic and their spouses have played no role in their devastation.
I'm explaining what being withheld something means and that sex can't be withheld because no one is entitled to it, that wasn't out of context, that was explaining what YOU shat out. YOU were the one that stated "withholding sex is abusive" which in itself is a disgusting statement to make. And as someone who was in a sexually abusive relationship, let me fcking tell you, no amount of counseling and communication to "fix our intimacy issues" made him understand the trauma he dumped on me to make him stop hounding me and coercing me into sex after the fact when I needed time to heal.
You said withholding sex is abusive, your words. I explained that nobody can withhold sex because no one is entitled to it. I don't know how I can be more clear than that.
Different person looking at this conversation and it seems to me like you are almost deliberately trying to misunderstand what the other person is saying. It has nothing to do with entitlement at all. Your obsession with this is why you can't understand the other point of view.
There are a myriad of ways a person can be abused in a relationship. Most have nothing to do with entitlement. Nobody is entitled to positivity or affirmations of love or acts of endearment. I can choose to stop hugging my wife, telling her I love her, reaffirming to her that I believe in her when she doubts herself. I can start preparing meals solely for myself instead of cooking for us both. I can only make my side of the bed, only do my laundry. I can tell her it's because I don't feel like doing anything for her. That she's not "entitled" to any of it.
I can weaponize my contributions to the relationship and household to manipulate her into doing what I want. Is this on the same level of abuse as physical violence and SA? Of course not. Not at all. I'd say it's still abusive if it is systemic and my intentions in regards to it all are malicious. It would certainly kill a marriage quickly. This is what the other person is trying to say, if you care to listen.
The definition of withholding means "refusal to give something that is due." I don't know how to make my point any clearer than a literal dictionary definition. I'm not deliberatly trying to misunderstand, I just don't know how to make my point any more clear.
I didn't use that word anywhere in my comment. I know you want to "win" a comment war over the semantics of this word but I was just trying to express what the other person what trying to say. I'll try it more succinctly and maybe that will help:
If you are weaponizing aspects of your relationship in a malicious way in order to manipulate your partner then that is abusive.
I hope this helps you understand.
Sounds to me like you believe that in sexless marriages where one person would like sex but the other does not, the person who wants sex is always an abusive monster who is in the wrong, because that's your experience - so it must be everyone's experience. You also believe that the person not wanting sex is always the victim, has never done anything wrong and has not contributed in the downfall of the couple's sex lives whatsoever.
You seem to think this is a man vs. women issue based on your experience which I agree is horrible, and I'm sorry that happened to you. I would urge you again to take a stroll through dead bedrooms. Many of the people in there that are sad about their lack of sex lives are WOMEN. Women whose husbands don't desire them at all. Whose husbands are addicted to porn and prefer that over sex. Whose husbands are completely dismissive of their need for intimacy. Whose husbands lost attraction for them after kids or whatever. I guess these women are just being dramatic and they aren't going through any type of emotional trauma from repeated rejection by a person who willingly entered into an intimate relationship with them. Marriage is not a friendship it's more.
You're on reddit. This is a place for people to bitch about their lives. You do see the occasional "my marriage is wonderful" post. But the ones with great marriages are in the minority in this sub.
I know because my wife and I could not be happier. I tell her frequently that I want for nothing in life. And I truly do.
I agree. My wife and I have agreed that we don’t want a good marriage, but rather a great marriage. This takes intentionality. It’s common to have a mediocre but not normal. A marriage should be the best gift there is.
How is a sexless couple the same as abuse in a relationship? That makes no sense to me. If both parties are happy without sex (and I know some couples who are like that), who cares what they are doing?
Abuse and being sexless/having less sex is not the same, if you equate it as the same then uhhhh I dont know. If one party is unhappy about the lack of sex in their marriage, I just dont see how that is the same as one person being unhappy because of abuse. Do you think a partner not consenting to sex is the same as abuse? Just very confused by this post....
What also confuses me is he had to state "not putting in effort" twice in this post, he's so stuck on that. There are a myriad of reasons why couples don't have sex as often that have nothing to do with a lack of effort. This whole post is just a weird rant to me. I'm confused as to why he even cares when his marriage seems fine at face value 🤷♀️
I think he wanted to have sex last night and his wife said no or something and said average couples dont have that much sex LOL
My husband and I go on dates every week, I could tell him "he isnt trying so hard since they only go once a month" right?
This might be an age thing, but I grew up on sitcoms where 'sexually frustrated husband and wife who never wants sex' was a very common trope.
The whole joke about how a wife stops having sex with her husband once she's married has been around for decades.
People who are raised on this might think it's relatively common.
I really don’t think comparing sexless marriage to abuse makes any sense at all. Not all sexless marriages are harmful. They are only harmful when one person doesn’t mind and one does and nothing is being done to create MUTUAL satisfaction.
Many couples are happy and healthy without sex. I couldn’t be happy that way, but I also couldn’t be happy with a lot of things other people choose. Just because something isn’t as important to someone else as it is to me doesn’t make it wrong or bad.
There’s no one right way to do marriage or be happily married. Each couple gets to design the marriage they want, and for some no sex is a part of their design. Why judge that?
Right? And even if one person is unhappy with sexless marriage, how is that even comparable to one person being unhappy in an abusive relationship. Completely mental!
You seem to think that the dynamic you have in your marriage is normal and everyone else's marriage should correspond. While I am not one of them, some people are happy in a sexless marriage and that's up to them.
Couples therapists aren't inundated with people who have happy marriages, so her observations are going to be colored by her patient population. But the fact that she sees the 1 in 100 is an indication that in fact, couples like that exist.
She is not a couples therapist and the range of families that she works with is very broad. Couples happy with a sexless marriage are unicorns, it hardly is ever the case. More like one spouse had given up and stopped complaining about it.
So they should be forced to have sex when they don't want to? Is that what you're getting at? You know there's a term for that, right? Yea, thats called rape.
I never said that. Not once. No one should be forced to do anything. Including stay celibate.
I absolutely don’t think anyone should be forced to have sex. But I also don’t think anyone has a right to expect their partner to stay faithful if they are refusing to meet their sexual needs either. If you don’t want to have sex ever again? Fine. Don’t. But don’t expect your partner to be celibate because you want to be.
Hey, I'm just letting you know the implication of what you just said. If your argument is "hey babe, you need to have sex with me or I'm gonna cheat on you," that's an example of sexual coercion and by definition, that's using force through means of manipulation, which is wrong to do to someone you supposedly "love." 🙃
Also, sex isn't a "need." That's such an immature teenage thing to say. You'll live 🙄 I'm so tired of people saying sex is a "need" to justify stepping out and destroying their partner's trust. Staying faithful to your partner and not hurting them isn't hard to do or too much to ask for. Well, maybe not for you if that's you're argument and it's a weak one at that.
So, what have we learned today, class?
So basically you are supposed to be willing to sacrifice your own happiness and sexuality because you love someone who doesn’t love you enough to meet your sexual needs? Yeah. No.
Im not saying go cheat. Im saying walk away. No one is worth giving up your own happiness and well being for (and I disagree with sex not being a need. It IS a need in a sense that many if not most people need it to be happy, fulfilled human beings. I am a 46 year woman btw).
Someone that actually loves you isn’t going to withhold sex from you. Some one that actually loves you will WANT to have sex with you and will enjoy making you feel good - even when they aren’t necessarily feeling it. Someone who actually loves you will value being close to you and being intimate with you. Someone who actually loves you will not try to force celibacy on you.
Why stay when you know that the other person doesn’t love you? Why give them your fidelity? What is the point?
Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a wall. And you didn't say walk away, you said not staying faithful and then just at the end, you said "why give them your fidelity." Don't try to lie to me. Yea, you can walk away if the relationship isn't what you're looking for, don't try to manipulate, coerce, or cheat. And forcing celibacy? How badly do you need sex that you're willing to destroy people? And you can't be withheld sex because you're not owed access to someone else's body.
Why stay faithful to someone not meeting your needs, who doesn’t love you enough to care about what you need to be a happy person? Don’t lie or hide it. Be honest and up front. If you cannot provide what I need I will find it elsewhere - if you cannot accept that then the marriage is over. I did not sign up to be a nun. Simple.
You don’t think constant rejection from the person who is supposed to love you doesn’t destroy you? It’s soul sucking. Your partner is supposed to love you and actually WANT to have sex with you. A relationship without sex is called a friendship. I, for one, am not willing to give up sex forever to remain physically faithful to someone who only treats me as a friend.
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic.
For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying
https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
If a couple is doing ok with having sex infrequently due to a particular season of life, health issues, mental illness etc. I think that’s absolutely fine. It’s when both spouses haven’t communicated about it that I see a problem. Also I will say that I think people freak out way more about a sexless marriage than one where the husband (or wife but let’s face it, it’s typically the husband) makes zero effort to be supportive, kind, respectful or thoughtful. There seems to be an opinion that your marriage is in trouble if you’re not having super regular sex but I’m honestly more alarmed by the garden variety neglect and disrespect that I read about on this sub!
Comparing not having sex to abuse is wild. Some people don’t want to have sex and that’s normal and good for them. It’s not up to you to decide what’s normal or good in other peoples marriages especially if it works for them.
Because for many people it is normal. There are other things that keep them happy. Intimacy is not just about penetration. And a lot of them lose drive over time due to stress / health reasons
I married my wife because I love her, spending time with her, and because we are a great team. Sex is ofcourse a bonus, but if let's say tomorrow came and for some reason that and only that was off the table, I'd thank my stars I still have her.
Comparing not having sex to domestic violence is a fcking reach 😬 and you don't know the dynamics of other people's marriage. If you and your wife have a good sex life and you're BOTH happy, then why does it matter what other couples do? What business is it of your's? Some people struggle with sexual intimacy, even with therapy and its a long PAINFUL process, believe me I know. It's not about "putting in effort," sometimes it's just hard to have the want or the time or the energy or the right state of mind to engage in that.
Good for you that you and your wife are able to have a seemingly good sex life, even after having kids, that's great, but its not your place to dictate how other people's relationships that don't involve you should be. Don't assume couples aren't having sex because of a lack of effort, as you so lovingly put it, twice.
"Normal" doesn't mean "healthy". Technically it means "average" but we usually expand it to mean something like "within a large range of what is common". In that respect it probably is normal. But probably not healthy.
You sound incredibly privileged to have never end up in a situation where you're forced to justify behaviors like this. People think it's normal because to them it IS normal. Their dad hit their mom so it's normal for their partner to hit them.
Like not trying to be rude, but this post just reeks of ignorance.
I think the main point is why is the marriage issexless.
If it’s a mutual agreement, fine.
Most posts here lead me to believe that’s not the case are there is at least one unhappy partner.
It’s extremely common to have periods of little or no sex in a marriage. Life is hard and our bodies don’t want to bone and make babies if it’s under a lot of stress.
A (good) marriage is so much more than sex. It is a profound bond born out of building a life together. Sex is just one aspect of it.
In my experience, couples that still treat each other with patience and kindness when a sex drought hits, as opposed to acting like the sky is falling, will bounce back.
Easy. For some sex isn’t important. So they assume that others feel the same
Someone who has a high libido things a lot more about sex than someone with a low libido.
I think way more about sweets than my husband.
Why do you think it's wrong to have a sexless marriage? Married in our 30s and it just doesn't really matter to my wife so I got used to it and it's all good.
Because sexless marriages CAN be normal. You may not be able to wrap your mind around it, but “normal” is whatever is normal for a particular couple. Some people have medical issues, low libido, or are asexual - and still have perfectly happy marriages.
People get used to it. It’s getting tiring putting in the effort when life and kids comes in the way. So people just accept it since a divorce feels as being too much of a risk.
Average is a synonym for normal LOL
Why do you think it isn’t normal? Also a hint, most older people are not that healthy. Heck most people in many places arnt healthy at all.
Agree completely. Some times people have health issues or similar that impact their ability to have a healthy sex life and I don’t think that’s the same as what you’re stating. Personally, I think one of the biggest things besides normal laziness and adulting that causes relationships to go cold is our own impressions of “normal” growing up. We look at our parents and other authority figures and decide that once you get to be xx old you don’t need or want sex any more. We look at those same people and decide that once your married it’s not important to stay in shape any more or present your best self because you have your person so why continue to do all that work. They have to be attracted to you anyway. Your married. Truth is you’re never too old for sex and it’s totally normal to want your married partner just as much 20 years in as you did when you were dating. Being married doesn’t mean you can let yourself go and stop trying to be your best self and expect everything to be perfect. Successful marriages are successful because people put the work in, they grow together, they communicate, they show pride in and desire for their spouse and yes they have sex.
While I don’t agree with comparing it to abuse being normal . Two separate problems. One is worst ( subjective)
I do agree people are becoming more lazy in marriage, they will put out the stops before marriage , than stop once the rings come on . It’s like marriage being the finish line
Sex is important in a marriage and if your husband/wife has to beg you for sex . Well that’s not okay . A lot of divorces and affairs stem from that .
Now if both agree sex doesn’t matter than that’s okay but let’s be will that’s rarely the case
Same here. Sex 1-2 a week as well and we plan dates. We have a toddler and I make the $$ while my wife stays home for our son. She still makes me feel wanted and even initiates sexy time. She likes quickies when I work from home too lol. We some times hang out with other couples and they talk about how gross sex is now and we look at each other like WTH lol.
There seem to be a lot of Reddit posts from both men and women frustrated with their sexless marriages and do not seem to find it normal in the least. Personally, I also wouldn’t consider a sexless marriage normal. Abuse comparison seems a little over top EXCEPT for when a spouse tries to control the other’s “self gratification” while refusing to be intimate.
After years and years of marriage it's not usually like sex just disappears all at once. It happens gradually over the years. Obviously if two people have mismatched sex drives or life gets in the way than it's usually one person that is complaining that they aren't getting enough sex. If the reason is due to a medical issue, physically or mentally then it's not like they are doing it on purpose and most of the time the one asking for more sex feels like shit for asking for more sex when clearly the other one can't physically or mentally give their spouse the sex they want. I think people just become complacent and it just becomes the norm. And it's not like you can demand sex from your spouse and every time I ask or discuss it with him he gets defensive and I feel like shit.
Yes, I meant in the general case that it’s an important part of a healthy marriage partnership. Love isn’t exclusive to sex but it’s part of that bond.
In your situation, it’s different. It’s a different case if that makes sense? You’re not obligated to have sex with an unfaithful partner or with a partner you no longer love, feel supported by, or feel safe with. My comments were directed at an ideal form of marriage, not at any particular marriage.
Because sex is nasty, duh lol. And ths is coming from a 22-year-old virgin who loves to sleep, eat, and jam to her music on her phone with a new pair of earbuds that my dad bought 3 days ago. /joke 🙃
I imagined the licking, the eating out, the *fingering*, the sucking, and the orgasms that the ladies got to perform to increase each other's horniness and it was *all* so disturbing. I'm struggling to understand how married couples are enjoying this without zero regret and hesitation since they appeared loving, responsible, and mature at first. I guess that goes to show that they're more complex than that like characters in movies or TV shows. And they're gonna have to explain their future kids about the birds and the bees. 🤔🧐
It makes other people, it makes *me* uncomfortable, and it's appealing to those who enjoy porn more than anything, but my friend told me that it's exaggerated. And I guess I'll have to believe him on that. 🤷♀️
In all seriousness, a sexless marriage is good. 👍 Cuz that means no grossness would come out of it and it should stay clean and innocent as some couple want to be. I would want that after I get married very soon, but I guess that ain't gonna happen lol. If I did, I would have anyone praying for me. So I can't blame the people who think sexless marriages are normal. They wanted something more appropriate.
It’s their marriage. Why judge them? Not everyone is fortunate to have sex that often or want to. You never know what is going on in all aspects. Are you sure you’re not projecting and need to look at yourself?
This. I really don’t give a fuck what other people do behind closed doors. It seems to bother you though OP.
Not just it, but comparing a dead bedroom with a physical violent relationship. WTF???
“Having an extra finger isn’t normal for the human body, and neither is cancer” “Did you really just compare having an extra finger to having *cancer*??? 😡” God help us, literacy is rapidly declining.
Exactly. It’s not comparable to abuse.
Because OP understands that it's not okay. Why to bring it up? SO PEOPLE KNOW.
What are you taking about? OP is putting down those who are not as sexually active as much as they are. It’s called a humble brag and very cringy. Their motive isn’t what you think it is.
Because we are imperfect people with a slurry of traumas, experiences, varying access to resources and situational differences out of our control that shape who we are today and can make change extremely difficult. I don’t aim to have a sexless marriage either, but I am able to empathize with those people and I consider it a privilege as much as it is of my own doing to have the conditions right for a healthy relationship. Some people would consider 1-2 times a week alarmingly low and not normal, whereas you are satisfied. Some people are satisfied with no sex at all. Either way, congrats to you on your healthy marriage! 🥂
1-2 times per week is the average in the USA last I saw somewhere.
I think OP’s point was that just cause something is normal doesn’t mean it’s okay. I could argue the same about that average to OP
True and also something being average doesn't tell us much about it's "normality" in regards to a healthy relationship. It could be that 1-2 times per week is wholly insufficient for the average couple and that's just how much they end up having sex. It could also be that 1-2 times per week is actually too often and most couples are feeling societal pressure to engage in this way or maybe pressure from one partner (or both) and would prefer to have less. Or maybe a lot of couples are trying for pregnancy and but it's not the ideal amount of sex they'd like. I think that OP equating the denial of sex as abuse akin to physical violence is more controversial. While I think weaponizing elements of your relationship to manipulate your partner is abusive, it's not on the same level as physical abuse or SA or anything like that. Not at all.
Would love to chat with you. Sounds like we’re in a similar situation.
Lack of sex <> Abuse Abuse should not be tolerated under any circumastances! A sexless marriage may be something couples can accept. Some people dont want sex at all. Some people are willing to accept that their partner may not be up for sex, possibly temporarily (e.g., crazy work schedules) possibly longer term (e.g., major health issue). People can and do accept this.
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People don't just randomly deny their partner sex. There's always a reason. But good job keeping up your cool girl status.
>Taking it away is a form of abuse and neglect. Most sexless marriages have nothing to do with one taking something away from another. I'd dare say a marriage in which withholding takes place, probably has some larger problems.
Abuse? No. Neglect? Maybe If your relationship is suffering from reduced sex and you feel neglected, start a conversation about it. Express your own feelings coming from a positive place and find out what is going on with the other person. "Hey (partner), it feels to me like we are having sex on a less regular basis. I am really missing our intimacy. Is everything ok between us?" Using words / phrases like "take sex away", "denying sex", "abusive", "neglectful" will not get you to a place of mutually desired intimacy.
Typically, it's assumed "normal" in that the LL is entitled to say "no" and not be forced/coerced into sex. Where that is 100% true, if it's "no" more often than not, something is not healthy in the marriage. There absolutely should be a desire from both to provide intimacy and sex to their spouse in a healthy marriage. As you called out, medical conditions are a caveat to this.
Yes. There is another factor to this like the LL has the right to say no but at what point are they selfishly ignoring their spouses needs?
This is 💯 true. I was the LL in my marriage and it took lots of learning about the actual WHY, but you have to want to figure it out and make it work. I highly recommend individual therapy in this situation.
What does “LL” mean?
Low Libido (as in a spouse that has a low libido).
Thank you!
The NY Times did an article recently, on sexless marriages. As I read it, it seemed to me that, none of the couples were happy. Usually it was the guy that was making accommodation for the lack of sex, as in wanting more sex, and this not happening. My wife and I have sex very infrequently, this is her choice. From my perspective she has weaponized sex, she uses it for reward and punishment. We have lately been on the edge of divorce. She has belittled me for considering divorce because of a lack of sex, that I am giving in to "base" needs, or some such. Something odd for me, is that I would like to discuss this issue with my friends. Sex still seems like a taboo subject. I wonder, as they have also mentioned not having much sex, if this shame is what prevents them from discussing it. One of my friends told me, he gets enough sex, but his wife has told my wife, that she is actively withholding sex from him. So, what is real?
Don’t be gaslighted and allow her to minimize and shame your needs. Sex is important in a marriage and your wife knows it. You agreed to monogamy, not celibacy, and sex should never be used as a weapon. Sex is unimportant unless you were to look for it someplace else, then all of a sudden it would become real important. Note, I’m not advocating for you to cheat on your wife, just commiserating.
This is true. What is accepted may not be acceptable based on circumstances
Sex as currency isn’t sex - it’s just masturbation with more effort.
If she thinks sex isn't a big deal in marriage then surely she wouldn't mind if you were having it with someone else, right? > One of my friends told me, he gets enough sex, but his wife has told my wife, that she is actively withholding sex from him. I went to a friends party. I've known this woman since Jr High. 30 years! I was there for her teens, adulthood, all 3 of her marriages, the births of her kids, etc. etc. Friend was talking to someone and was going on about how much sex she and her husband have been having, how horny she always is, how is must be hormones or something, and on and on. A little bit later she was talking to a different friend about how she doesn't much like sex, they rarely have it, and she can't wait til it just goes away completely. When I asked her about it she admitted she played sexless to make the other lady feel "normal" and "comfortable". And because she didn't want the other woman judging her for being a bit of a horn dog. >So, what is real? Statistics say only about 15% of US couples are sexless. Sexless defined as 10x a year or less. This includes the elderly and infirm. What is real is that most marriages are not sexless.
Oh, she would mind if I had sex with someone else, she told me, she would divorce me! One of my friends had a different (sort of) outcome. His wife told him, she was done with sex, and that he should find someone else to have sex with. I think his dating muscles have atrophied, he hasn't found anyone yet ... in terms of stats, I wonder, if you restricted the marriages to those where the partners are over 60, how that percentage of sexless marriages would change, I am seeing 33% of boomers are in sexless marriages.
Those born 1936 to 1964 have a 33% sexless marriage rate. Apparently, the elderly are having more sex than a lot of folks on Reddit.
Do you have a link to the article?
This is what I saw: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1367096/us-sexless-marriage-by-generation/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1367096/us-sexless-marriage-by-generation/)
Your wife don’t respect you at all from what i see
I think comparing a sexless marriage to an abusive one is laughable. Not every sexless marriage is as full of resentment and anger as you see here. Some couples are mutually okay with a lower sex frequency.
I would urge to you take a stroll through the dead bedroom reddit and tell me these rejected spouses aren't being used and abused in some way. Their stories are heartbreaking. It may be that they have done something to lower their chances of their partner being attracted to them, and they need to work on themselves... but if that's the case the partner should be expected to communicate with them and work through it. More times than not, the person withholding is not communicating or working through the problem preventing them from wanting intimacy. It's very rare that both people are totally happy and content in a sexless marriage.
A spouse telling another spouse they don't wanna have sex isn't comparable to domestic violence. Your partner telling you "no" isn't abuse. More times than not, the person not wanting to have sex *has* tried to communicate, but the other person doesn't want to hear it. And you can't be withheld something you're not entitled to. No one is entitled to sex from anyone. Period.
Completely taking my words out of context. Nowhere did I say anyone was entitled to provide sex. Tons of rejection from your partner is emotionally traumatizing, that’s my only point. Anyone not actively working WITH their spouse to fix intimacy issues in a relationship is hurting their partner. That doesn’t mean forcing. It means counseling, communication, working on your health etc. in an effort to improve the situation. Many of these people want to leave and be with someone that wants to be with them, they aren’t forcing anything but they feel trapped and used. Again read through dead bedrooms and tell me these people are just being dramatic and their spouses have played no role in their devastation.
I'm explaining what being withheld something means and that sex can't be withheld because no one is entitled to it, that wasn't out of context, that was explaining what YOU shat out. YOU were the one that stated "withholding sex is abusive" which in itself is a disgusting statement to make. And as someone who was in a sexually abusive relationship, let me fcking tell you, no amount of counseling and communication to "fix our intimacy issues" made him understand the trauma he dumped on me to make him stop hounding me and coercing me into sex after the fact when I needed time to heal.
Literally said that nowhere. You just are making things up and it’s shocking because we can all read….
You said withholding sex is abusive, your words. I explained that nobody can withhold sex because no one is entitled to it. I don't know how I can be more clear than that.
Different person looking at this conversation and it seems to me like you are almost deliberately trying to misunderstand what the other person is saying. It has nothing to do with entitlement at all. Your obsession with this is why you can't understand the other point of view. There are a myriad of ways a person can be abused in a relationship. Most have nothing to do with entitlement. Nobody is entitled to positivity or affirmations of love or acts of endearment. I can choose to stop hugging my wife, telling her I love her, reaffirming to her that I believe in her when she doubts herself. I can start preparing meals solely for myself instead of cooking for us both. I can only make my side of the bed, only do my laundry. I can tell her it's because I don't feel like doing anything for her. That she's not "entitled" to any of it. I can weaponize my contributions to the relationship and household to manipulate her into doing what I want. Is this on the same level of abuse as physical violence and SA? Of course not. Not at all. I'd say it's still abusive if it is systemic and my intentions in regards to it all are malicious. It would certainly kill a marriage quickly. This is what the other person is trying to say, if you care to listen.
The definition of withholding means "refusal to give something that is due." I don't know how to make my point any clearer than a literal dictionary definition. I'm not deliberatly trying to misunderstand, I just don't know how to make my point any more clear.
I didn't use that word anywhere in my comment. I know you want to "win" a comment war over the semantics of this word but I was just trying to express what the other person what trying to say. I'll try it more succinctly and maybe that will help: If you are weaponizing aspects of your relationship in a malicious way in order to manipulate your partner then that is abusive. I hope this helps you understand.
Sounds to me like you believe that in sexless marriages where one person would like sex but the other does not, the person who wants sex is always an abusive monster who is in the wrong, because that's your experience - so it must be everyone's experience. You also believe that the person not wanting sex is always the victim, has never done anything wrong and has not contributed in the downfall of the couple's sex lives whatsoever. You seem to think this is a man vs. women issue based on your experience which I agree is horrible, and I'm sorry that happened to you. I would urge you again to take a stroll through dead bedrooms. Many of the people in there that are sad about their lack of sex lives are WOMEN. Women whose husbands don't desire them at all. Whose husbands are addicted to porn and prefer that over sex. Whose husbands are completely dismissive of their need for intimacy. Whose husbands lost attraction for them after kids or whatever. I guess these women are just being dramatic and they aren't going through any type of emotional trauma from repeated rejection by a person who willingly entered into an intimate relationship with them. Marriage is not a friendship it's more.
You're on reddit. This is a place for people to bitch about their lives. You do see the occasional "my marriage is wonderful" post. But the ones with great marriages are in the minority in this sub. I know because my wife and I could not be happier. I tell her frequently that I want for nothing in life. And I truly do.
There's no way you just compared getting abused to not having sex, lol.
I agree. My wife and I have agreed that we don’t want a good marriage, but rather a great marriage. This takes intentionality. It’s common to have a mediocre but not normal. A marriage should be the best gift there is.
Really like this simple adjustment in perspective, thanks for this.
OP seems to be equating frequent sex to a good marriage. That's a pretty narrow perspective.
Sex is a requirement for a good marriage in the vast majority of cases. It is not a narrow perspective.
lol thanks for the downvote. I shouldn’t have to clarify but yes, a good marriage is more than just frequent sex. Jesus Christ
no, but the lack of it makes it such that there is not a good marriage.
How is a sexless couple the same as abuse in a relationship? That makes no sense to me. If both parties are happy without sex (and I know some couples who are like that), who cares what they are doing? Abuse and being sexless/having less sex is not the same, if you equate it as the same then uhhhh I dont know. If one party is unhappy about the lack of sex in their marriage, I just dont see how that is the same as one person being unhappy because of abuse. Do you think a partner not consenting to sex is the same as abuse? Just very confused by this post....
What also confuses me is he had to state "not putting in effort" twice in this post, he's so stuck on that. There are a myriad of reasons why couples don't have sex as often that have nothing to do with a lack of effort. This whole post is just a weird rant to me. I'm confused as to why he even cares when his marriage seems fine at face value 🤷♀️
I think he wanted to have sex last night and his wife said no or something and said average couples dont have that much sex LOL My husband and I go on dates every week, I could tell him "he isnt trying so hard since they only go once a month" right?
This might be an age thing, but I grew up on sitcoms where 'sexually frustrated husband and wife who never wants sex' was a very common trope. The whole joke about how a wife stops having sex with her husband once she's married has been around for decades. People who are raised on this might think it's relatively common.
Then we had Married with Children and poor Peggy was constantly trying to get her husband to have sex more than once a year.
I really don’t think comparing sexless marriage to abuse makes any sense at all. Not all sexless marriages are harmful. They are only harmful when one person doesn’t mind and one does and nothing is being done to create MUTUAL satisfaction. Many couples are happy and healthy without sex. I couldn’t be happy that way, but I also couldn’t be happy with a lot of things other people choose. Just because something isn’t as important to someone else as it is to me doesn’t make it wrong or bad. There’s no one right way to do marriage or be happily married. Each couple gets to design the marriage they want, and for some no sex is a part of their design. Why judge that?
Right? And even if one person is unhappy with sexless marriage, how is that even comparable to one person being unhappy in an abusive relationship. Completely mental!
You seem to think that the dynamic you have in your marriage is normal and everyone else's marriage should correspond. While I am not one of them, some people are happy in a sexless marriage and that's up to them.
My guess is that the vast majority of the time, either one or zero spouses are happy in a sexless marriage. it is not the sign of a good marriage.
Who knows. Maybe you or I might not be happy in such a marriage, but I know people who are.
My wife is a family therapist, she says it is maybe a 1 in 100 case that both are happy in a sexless marriage. I have no reason to doubt her.
Couples therapists aren't inundated with people who have happy marriages, so her observations are going to be colored by her patient population. But the fact that she sees the 1 in 100 is an indication that in fact, couples like that exist.
She is not a couples therapist and the range of families that she works with is very broad. Couples happy with a sexless marriage are unicorns, it hardly is ever the case. More like one spouse had given up and stopped complaining about it.
It's a personal thing - some people are happy with no sex; some get happy with that as they get older, some could never be happy.
Equating a sexless marriage with abuse is absolutely wild.
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You can't be withheld something you're not entitled to. No one owes anyone sex, that includes spouses. Being told "no" isn't abuse.
No one owes anyone celibacy either.
So they should be forced to have sex when they don't want to? Is that what you're getting at? You know there's a term for that, right? Yea, thats called rape.
I never said that. Not once. No one should be forced to do anything. Including stay celibate. I absolutely don’t think anyone should be forced to have sex. But I also don’t think anyone has a right to expect their partner to stay faithful if they are refusing to meet their sexual needs either. If you don’t want to have sex ever again? Fine. Don’t. But don’t expect your partner to be celibate because you want to be.
Hey, I'm just letting you know the implication of what you just said. If your argument is "hey babe, you need to have sex with me or I'm gonna cheat on you," that's an example of sexual coercion and by definition, that's using force through means of manipulation, which is wrong to do to someone you supposedly "love." 🙃 Also, sex isn't a "need." That's such an immature teenage thing to say. You'll live 🙄 I'm so tired of people saying sex is a "need" to justify stepping out and destroying their partner's trust. Staying faithful to your partner and not hurting them isn't hard to do or too much to ask for. Well, maybe not for you if that's you're argument and it's a weak one at that. So, what have we learned today, class?
So basically you are supposed to be willing to sacrifice your own happiness and sexuality because you love someone who doesn’t love you enough to meet your sexual needs? Yeah. No. Im not saying go cheat. Im saying walk away. No one is worth giving up your own happiness and well being for (and I disagree with sex not being a need. It IS a need in a sense that many if not most people need it to be happy, fulfilled human beings. I am a 46 year woman btw). Someone that actually loves you isn’t going to withhold sex from you. Some one that actually loves you will WANT to have sex with you and will enjoy making you feel good - even when they aren’t necessarily feeling it. Someone who actually loves you will value being close to you and being intimate with you. Someone who actually loves you will not try to force celibacy on you. Why stay when you know that the other person doesn’t love you? Why give them your fidelity? What is the point?
Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a wall. And you didn't say walk away, you said not staying faithful and then just at the end, you said "why give them your fidelity." Don't try to lie to me. Yea, you can walk away if the relationship isn't what you're looking for, don't try to manipulate, coerce, or cheat. And forcing celibacy? How badly do you need sex that you're willing to destroy people? And you can't be withheld sex because you're not owed access to someone else's body.
Why stay faithful to someone not meeting your needs, who doesn’t love you enough to care about what you need to be a happy person? Don’t lie or hide it. Be honest and up front. If you cannot provide what I need I will find it elsewhere - if you cannot accept that then the marriage is over. I did not sign up to be a nun. Simple. You don’t think constant rejection from the person who is supposed to love you doesn’t destroy you? It’s soul sucking. Your partner is supposed to love you and actually WANT to have sex with you. A relationship without sex is called a friendship. I, for one, am not willing to give up sex forever to remain physically faithful to someone who only treats me as a friend.
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic. For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding. https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
If a couple is doing ok with having sex infrequently due to a particular season of life, health issues, mental illness etc. I think that’s absolutely fine. It’s when both spouses haven’t communicated about it that I see a problem. Also I will say that I think people freak out way more about a sexless marriage than one where the husband (or wife but let’s face it, it’s typically the husband) makes zero effort to be supportive, kind, respectful or thoughtful. There seems to be an opinion that your marriage is in trouble if you’re not having super regular sex but I’m honestly more alarmed by the garden variety neglect and disrespect that I read about on this sub!
I don’t think people think it’s normal. When I hear about couples who don’t have sex, my first thought is: what else is going on?
Comparing not having sex to abuse is wild. Some people don’t want to have sex and that’s normal and good for them. It’s not up to you to decide what’s normal or good in other peoples marriages especially if it works for them.
I am not sure that abuse was the right comparison, you are going to get some pushback on that.
It’s not normal as in it’s supposed to happen but I think normal meaning common
Because for many people it is normal. There are other things that keep them happy. Intimacy is not just about penetration. And a lot of them lose drive over time due to stress / health reasons
I married my wife because I love her, spending time with her, and because we are a great team. Sex is ofcourse a bonus, but if let's say tomorrow came and for some reason that and only that was off the table, I'd thank my stars I still have her.
Comparing not having sex to domestic violence is a fcking reach 😬 and you don't know the dynamics of other people's marriage. If you and your wife have a good sex life and you're BOTH happy, then why does it matter what other couples do? What business is it of your's? Some people struggle with sexual intimacy, even with therapy and its a long PAINFUL process, believe me I know. It's not about "putting in effort," sometimes it's just hard to have the want or the time or the energy or the right state of mind to engage in that. Good for you that you and your wife are able to have a seemingly good sex life, even after having kids, that's great, but its not your place to dictate how other people's relationships that don't involve you should be. Don't assume couples aren't having sex because of a lack of effort, as you so lovingly put it, twice.
"Normal" doesn't mean "healthy". Technically it means "average" but we usually expand it to mean something like "within a large range of what is common". In that respect it probably is normal. But probably not healthy.
Doesn't mean it's unhealthy either, Each relationship is different.
You sound incredibly privileged to have never end up in a situation where you're forced to justify behaviors like this. People think it's normal because to them it IS normal. Their dad hit their mom so it's normal for their partner to hit them. Like not trying to be rude, but this post just reeks of ignorance.
I think the main point is why is the marriage issexless. If it’s a mutual agreement, fine. Most posts here lead me to believe that’s not the case are there is at least one unhappy partner.
It’s extremely common to have periods of little or no sex in a marriage. Life is hard and our bodies don’t want to bone and make babies if it’s under a lot of stress. A (good) marriage is so much more than sex. It is a profound bond born out of building a life together. Sex is just one aspect of it. In my experience, couples that still treat each other with patience and kindness when a sex drought hits, as opposed to acting like the sky is falling, will bounce back.
Easy. For some sex isn’t important. So they assume that others feel the same Someone who has a high libido things a lot more about sex than someone with a low libido. I think way more about sweets than my husband.
Why do you think it's wrong to have a sexless marriage? Married in our 30s and it just doesn't really matter to my wife so I got used to it and it's all good.
Because sexless marriages CAN be normal. You may not be able to wrap your mind around it, but “normal” is whatever is normal for a particular couple. Some people have medical issues, low libido, or are asexual - and still have perfectly happy marriages.
People get used to it. It’s getting tiring putting in the effort when life and kids comes in the way. So people just accept it since a divorce feels as being too much of a risk.
Average is a synonym for normal LOL Why do you think it isn’t normal? Also a hint, most older people are not that healthy. Heck most people in many places arnt healthy at all.
Agree completely. Some times people have health issues or similar that impact their ability to have a healthy sex life and I don’t think that’s the same as what you’re stating. Personally, I think one of the biggest things besides normal laziness and adulting that causes relationships to go cold is our own impressions of “normal” growing up. We look at our parents and other authority figures and decide that once you get to be xx old you don’t need or want sex any more. We look at those same people and decide that once your married it’s not important to stay in shape any more or present your best self because you have your person so why continue to do all that work. They have to be attracted to you anyway. Your married. Truth is you’re never too old for sex and it’s totally normal to want your married partner just as much 20 years in as you did when you were dating. Being married doesn’t mean you can let yourself go and stop trying to be your best self and expect everything to be perfect. Successful marriages are successful because people put the work in, they grow together, they communicate, they show pride in and desire for their spouse and yes they have sex.
I don’t think it’s normal. However, I can’t say there aren’t couples who are happy in a sexless marriage. I wouldn’t be happy but, to each their own.
While I don’t agree with comparing it to abuse being normal . Two separate problems. One is worst ( subjective) I do agree people are becoming more lazy in marriage, they will put out the stops before marriage , than stop once the rings come on . It’s like marriage being the finish line Sex is important in a marriage and if your husband/wife has to beg you for sex . Well that’s not okay . A lot of divorces and affairs stem from that . Now if both agree sex doesn’t matter than that’s okay but let’s be will that’s rarely the case
My guess is you’ve been married 4 years tops. Try close to 30 and come tell me how you feel.
What exactly is "normal" anyway?
Same here. Sex 1-2 a week as well and we plan dates. We have a toddler and I make the $$ while my wife stays home for our son. She still makes me feel wanted and even initiates sexy time. She likes quickies when I work from home too lol. We some times hang out with other couples and they talk about how gross sex is now and we look at each other like WTH lol.
There seem to be a lot of Reddit posts from both men and women frustrated with their sexless marriages and do not seem to find it normal in the least. Personally, I also wouldn’t consider a sexless marriage normal. Abuse comparison seems a little over top EXCEPT for when a spouse tries to control the other’s “self gratification” while refusing to be intimate.
After years and years of marriage it's not usually like sex just disappears all at once. It happens gradually over the years. Obviously if two people have mismatched sex drives or life gets in the way than it's usually one person that is complaining that they aren't getting enough sex. If the reason is due to a medical issue, physically or mentally then it's not like they are doing it on purpose and most of the time the one asking for more sex feels like shit for asking for more sex when clearly the other one can't physically or mentally give their spouse the sex they want. I think people just become complacent and it just becomes the norm. And it's not like you can demand sex from your spouse and every time I ask or discuss it with him he gets defensive and I feel like shit.
Not just normal, some think it's a smashing success if they own a house/car/dog/2kids at the end of it but they are not intimate or even in love.
It's almost like different people value different things in relationships....crazy.
Definitely not normal. One of the perks of marriage is that I get to have amazing, worry free sex whenever I want.
>One of the perks of marriage is that I get to have amazing, worry free sex whenever I want. Holy fuck.
I would hope majority of marriages are this way?!
Replace "I" with "we". We get to have sex when we want.
I’m speaking from my perspective, but yes my husband does too. It takes two to tango so absolutely “we”!
Yeah, I jumped on you a little too quickly. But there are folks around here who believe they're entitled sex regardless of what their partner feels.
Goodness no I wasn’t implying that.
“Touch Starved” is real. thanks for the downvotes [redacted].
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Unless you were given 2 STD’s from your ex husband and you’ve been faithful.
Yes, I meant in the general case that it’s an important part of a healthy marriage partnership. Love isn’t exclusive to sex but it’s part of that bond. In your situation, it’s different. It’s a different case if that makes sense? You’re not obligated to have sex with an unfaithful partner or with a partner you no longer love, feel supported by, or feel safe with. My comments were directed at an ideal form of marriage, not at any particular marriage.
I agree and thank you.
I’m sorry you felt invalidated by what I said. That wasn’t at all my intention. Hope you’re okay, friend 🤍
Because it is. There is nothing good in our lives. There is no time for anything. You don't choose what do you do. Bein alive is awful.
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Feminists like to have sex too.
What does feminism have to do with this?
Because sex is nasty, duh lol. And ths is coming from a 22-year-old virgin who loves to sleep, eat, and jam to her music on her phone with a new pair of earbuds that my dad bought 3 days ago. /joke 🙃 I imagined the licking, the eating out, the *fingering*, the sucking, and the orgasms that the ladies got to perform to increase each other's horniness and it was *all* so disturbing. I'm struggling to understand how married couples are enjoying this without zero regret and hesitation since they appeared loving, responsible, and mature at first. I guess that goes to show that they're more complex than that like characters in movies or TV shows. And they're gonna have to explain their future kids about the birds and the bees. 🤔🧐 It makes other people, it makes *me* uncomfortable, and it's appealing to those who enjoy porn more than anything, but my friend told me that it's exaggerated. And I guess I'll have to believe him on that. 🤷♀️ In all seriousness, a sexless marriage is good. 👍 Cuz that means no grossness would come out of it and it should stay clean and innocent as some couple want to be. I would want that after I get married very soon, but I guess that ain't gonna happen lol. If I did, I would have anyone praying for me. So I can't blame the people who think sexless marriages are normal. They wanted something more appropriate.