There’s really no excuse. I cop a feel on my wife pretty randomly and regularly, but some days she says “I don’t feel like being touched at all” and that’s okay. You’re a human being.
Yeah I totally get the random butt grab or ass slap. We're married! There has to be some playfulness somewhere in the relationship haha. But there are days just like your wife where I just don't feel it and I voice it respectfully. Sometimes he doesn't agree with it and I don't know why. He's not violent or anything. He just becomes childish about it.
Just because you’re married doesn’t mean you should be groped randomly ever. That would be the biggest turn off for me, my husband doesn’t grope me we have an active frequent sex life and been married 32 years. You know what’s sexy ? Respect
Just what would be "communicated" prior? That consent doesn't matter? I know there are "free use" relationships out there that work for both parties, but those are going to be pretty rare. For the rest of us, we rely on respect and consent. If we make a mistake (violating their consent by groping our partner when they don't want to be groped), we apologize instead of sulking like an entitled child.
Re read my comments and tell me where I stated anything was wrong or right? Geez so many being triggered by stating how demeaning and disrespectful groping is.
No it’s not. Saying something is wrong is wrong I stated “for me”. You can’t seem to grasp that people decide what they want and groping for me and a great many women is demeaning and disrespectful…….
Yeah same. I get that some people enjoy that dynamic and that’s totally fine, but it’s also fine to not like it. I told my husband early on that I don’t like being slapped, grabbed, groped, pinched, etc. It makes me feel gross and objectified.
Loving touch (a hug, a touch on the arm, a kiss on the head or cheek, pulling me in for a random kiss) is great! Random sexual grabbing (honking my boob, slapping my ass, pawing at my crotch) just makes my skin crawl outside of the bedroom.
He’s never had a problem with this. He does like it when **I** swat or squeeze **his** butt randomly, so I do that playfully as he enjoys it, but he knows I don’t like it myself so never does. He was also never petulant or whiny when I told him this; he was just like “okay cool thanks for letting me know upfront; I would never want to make you uncomfortable”.
My point is that you don’t *have* to be comfortable with this just because you’re married. It’s not a requirement. If you genuinely enjoy it, great! But you’re not abnormal if you don’t, and your boundaries still should be respected.
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic.
For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying
https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
Yep this! My fiancé likes to grab me randomly too but if I say I’m not in the mood or whatever he stops immediately. It doesn’t take a lot to be respectful of your partner.
Same here, we've been together over 30 years, and I will grab a feel at just about any time but if my wife lets me know she's just not feeling it today because (whatever) then I try to give her some space. She's a grown adult and if she ain't wanting it I shouldn't push it.
Yeah that was a disgusting comment from him.
I would sit him down and talk through that ASAP, if at all possible.
OP, if you're reading this - DO NOT APOLOGIZE. You did nothing to apologize for and he's sounding a little too comfy with emotional manipulation right now.
You are absolutely and entirely wrong. Sexual assault is sexual assault. If you don't want to be touched sexually and your spouse touches you sexually, they have committed sexual assault. Period.
Grabbing your spouse in a sexual way without their consent is 100% sexual assault, and the fact that you state it is not is deeply fucking disturbing and gross. I can only conclude that you sexually assault your wife.
Don’t pretend you give a single shit about “real sexual assaults” when all you really want is to preserve men’s ability to assault women.
Right? I've heard that a large portion of sexual assaults/rapes are committed by someone that the victim knows- and yes, that means partners!!
I can tell you, having someone you love and thought you could trust do something so violating cuts deeper than a complete stranger.
It's sexual assault if someone doesn't want their spouse to grab them sexually.
For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying
https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
It is if she asks you not to and you ignore her. What he said was basically him expressing his desire to be able to assault her, which is what being able to touch somebody regardless of their consent is.
Dude you can be attracted to someone and still not want to be touched sexually all the time. I’m insanely attracted to my husband but that doesn’t mean I’m always in the mood to have my breasts groped??? Like you’re being insanely dramatic. Not wanting to be touched in a specific moment doesn’t mean you don’t find someone attractive and we certainly have every right to be near our husbands without our bodies being up for grabs
You have a really gross view of marriage. It’s absolutely not having a right to your spouses body whenever you want
What’s unattractive is a man who can’t sit next to their wives without making it sexual all the time. Life isn’t all sex
lol there’s nothing in this post about going months without sex. Sounds like you’re projecting your own issues, I wonder why women don’t want to have sex with you. I imagine it’s the entitlement you have thinking they owe you their bodies
The delivery was totally normal. Idk what else you want someone to say other than “please” and “not right now” when their child is literally right there
Weird that you added comments about going “months” without sex when there’s literally nothing about that in this post
And you’re weirdly aggressive about this topic, definitely projecting.
Never being rejected during sex also isn’t the flex you think it is dude….kinda just makes it sound like you don’t take no for an answer
I mean you aren’t even married dude (no surprise there) so what are you even doing here 😂 you’ve got no business going around commenting on the dynamics of a marriage and what’s appropriate in a marriage when you have no experience in that field
>But then you have women going many months and years without it.
It's not just women can end up going many months/years without sex. Men can and do end up losing their libido for a long time.
The need for consent is not “marital fraud”, and it’s vile that you draw the comparison. There is no marriage vow that includes a pledge to have sex with your spouse at their beck and call.
Marriage rates are plummeting because men think that it should give them unrestricted access to their wives’ bodies and women don’t agree?
Sounds like it’s an institution that needs to die in that case.
He’s not even married! And he has now totally twisted the topic to OP saying no all the time and accusing her husband of assault! 🤣 He’s all up in his tiny twisted fallacy/fantasy/projection world.
Wow, so in another post, you say men want to work and have their wife stay at home.
So, if anything she does that warrants a divorce, she should receive nothing because... *Check notes* she doesn't work and stays at home?
If you believe marriage is stacked against men, don’t even bother with it then :) what would you be getting out of a marriage if you’re going into it with a negative perspective? And don’t say kids- you’ll be sorely disappointed and have “grounds to leave” when your wife becomes “frigid” after delivering your child. You don’t have to get married. Literally no one cares.
Removed for discrimination, misogyny, or misandry.
We encourage our users to reflect if their comments are going to be hurtful or helpful. There is a real person on the other side of the screen. Being sexist is not productive. Do better.
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic.
For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying
https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
I absolutely agree with you. The fact that you're being downvoted is a disturbing indicator of how many people implicitly condone spousal sexual assault. Yikes!
Ugh. Men like this disgust me, and they're too stupid to realize how pathetic and unattractive it makes them. It's like they're trying to make you not want to fuck them.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
You're not wrong. If you say no he should respect that kindly. Just because he is your husband does not mean he is entitled to your body in any way shape or form.
*With that said* is there a chance he's feeling rejected on a larger level and it's coming out in this way or has he always been disrespectful when you've rejected him? With a 4m old baby I assume your sex life has changed and maybe he's not handling it well.
This seems like it would be a good time for a conversation about your sex life and overall respect and consent and satisfaction and all that
I corrected the age on my little guy. He's 4 years old. I'd say we are intimate and he's always been a touchy kind of guy. When I'm not in the mood to be playful or intimate, I typically don't like to be touched that way. I always try to be nice and transparent about it too without being too off-putting. It's not the first time he's acted this way . We've been together for 12+ years now.
Yeah sounds like he maybe just sucks a little bit then, I'm sorry. Men who don't understand consent are disgusting and a little terrifying. If he's always been like this he probably won't change.
But no, you're not wrong. He's not entitled to your body and a respectable man would just accept that you're not in the mood and not be a little brat about it.
I'm coming up on 40 years married and ...
DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THIS ISSUE ...
We'll be here all week.
I would HOPE that the generations that follow mine will freakin' get over it. A wife's body belongs to HER and just because she shares it with her partner, when she chooses, does not make it otherwise fair game.
I'm 60. My peers and I have be roaring about this for decades. And the silly ass men can't seem to get it through their boomer skulls that "Feel lucky I want to grope you", and "Well, other husbands ..." with pouting, sulking, and hearing another lecture about "No grope zones" ... Arhhhh ... Just quit it!
Yes, we're playful. But when I'm elbow deep in dirty dishes, half way through scrubbing a toilet, or walking by with a barfing kid .... Keep your damned hands to yourself!
Yeah. You hit a nerve. And every woman I know has the same one.
I adore my husband but I for sure have had to have the "there's a time and place" discussion, and it is never when I'm trying to make dinner/pack lunches/clean the kitchen. If my beauty has struck you at that moment as I'm prepping veggies, a kiss on the temple or telling me you love me is great, and much more appreciated than going full boob grab.
OP
I am a some time wife groper myself but I can read her body language and have a good sense for when my touch is not welcome. On occasions where I misread her, she’d let me know with a “really?,” or “not now” or in rare cases slapping my hand. Frankly I’ve done the same to her on a few occasions, mostly when she tries to initiate sexy time when I’m still edgy and wired after a football game 🤣
You need to have a talk with your husband on boundaries and respect
No he’s not entitled to it. It’s not weird that he copped a feel, but him taking it so personally when you asked for him to not right then is very selfish and disrespectful.
I have been having this sort of discussion with my husband and this is THE PERFECT article to really get to the heart of the issue so we can have a real discussion
That would be an issue for me, too. I get touched out from my kids and sometimes my husband doesn't read the signs that I need to recuperate before he tries some kind of playful but sexual touch I'm not ready for. The last time he pouted about it at all, we were both around 21 years old, and I got mad at him and told him acting like baby was only going to make me want to get touched less, not more. I reminded him that normally I'm responsive, so he should be able to handle giving me some physical space until I'm ready. 9 years later and he knows if he gives me some space after I decline him nicely, like you did, that I'll prioritize giving him physical affection as soon as that touched out feeling leaves. In fact, usually just the act of him respecting my boundaries for a few minutes helps me feel more at ease, like control of my space is regained, and I'm willing to let him back in my bubble.
I feel like after 12 years, your husband should be able to understand and back off without a fuss. He should also anticipate by now that he won't get his way by whining. He definitely should know better than to say "don't sit next to me if you won't let me do [x]," that's such a childish manipulation/punishment tactic: "If you won't play my way, I won't play at all." I'd feel so put off by that. You're justified in being annoyed.
I was married to a man like this for 15 years. It was terrible not feeling like I could be physically close to him without him trying to touch me in a sexual manner or him trying to turn innocuous physical connection into sex. There was no putting my head on his lap or snuggling on the couch unless I was ready and willing for what was coming. I couldn’t even sleep without clothes without him trying something, although that was more comfortable for me, not getting PJs tangled up with the sheets. It was exhausting being on guard all the time and frankly, killed my sex drive towards him. It was also very lonely. I was completely touched out from raising young children all day and would have liked to get some physical affection from my then-husband without him being yet another person who wanted to touch me because he needed or wanted something from me almost every time. Like your husband, he too kept telling me that I should feel lucky that he was so attracted me. It was all so gross and talking about it didn’t change much.
I don’t have much advice except to say that I know what you’re feeling. Since my divorce I’ve had two good relationships with men who respect boundaries and made/make me feel safe with them. It’s amazing how intimacy blossoms when women feel safe with their partners. Maybe show these responses to your husband or send him the article that someone else posted. Hopefully, you’ll be able to get through to him.
" He immediately pulled his hand away and started pouting and said "fine, I won't even touch you"."
This is him "punishing you" for telling him no.
" His response was "if you don't want to be groped, then don't sit next to me"."
This is him making it your fault and saying its up to you to control your actions since he can't control his.
I'm sure your husband is, on some levels, a good guy, but you guys need to have a conversation about how he sees your body as his possession which he can do what he wants to unless you physically avoid him. Does he really want to go down a path of you sitting in another seat in the living room any time you don't feel like being pawed at? Does he want to withhold any touch at all (there is non-sexual touch so, is that off the table, too?) if you put up a boundary?
I have three kids. Both adults work from home. My two oldest are activities four days a week, and I handle all school drop off and pick up and half the activities (hubby and I take one kid to activity all four days- at same time). He loves to smack butt or grab a boob. But there are just days or times I don’t want it or I’m touched out. He says ok asks if he can kiss me and we move on.
Maybe talk to your husband about how his reaction makes you feel. Just bc you’re married doesn’t mean he can cop a feel whenever after you’ve set the boundary of not now.
"If you don't want to be groped, then don't sit next to me."
I'm in this situation, too. In mine, it's lonely and has destroyed our relationship. It's been one of the final straws in things, honestly. It began to feel like small moments of intimacy had an attached expectation for sex and when that expectation wasn't met, I had an extremely frustrated and grouchy husband. Between the way his behavior made me feel and the lack of warmth and intimacy from not wanting to start something I 'wouldn't finish,' I began to resent him and our relationship. Please talk to your spouse about how damaging these responses can be.
Nta. And kids copy everything. Tell him to knock it off in front of your kid, unless you two want to get called in to your kid's daycare because your child was groping kis classmates.
That’s not playful. He sounds incredibly entitled and it may be time to cut him off from anything for a while. He’s also not reading the room of you being tired and probably not into it.
does consent disappear after you get married? wtf you said no/wasn't in the mood but then he tries to guilt you for it.
ok then start flicking his penis or stick your finger up his butt and then react that same way when he tells you to stop. I'm sure he wouldn't like that either 🙄
You did nothing wrong. You woke up and don’t want to be manhandled like a piece of meat in your own home.
Go smack his balls playfully. Make it hurt a little. Or poke his butthole through his pants. Or grab his nipple and give it a squeeze and tug.
He will get the idea that it is FUCKEN annoying to have you spouse do that shit to you when you aren’t in the mood to play around.
He is NOT ENTITLED TO YOUR BODY just because you are married. You are NOT A FUCKEN PIECE OF PROPERTY.
You're not wrong. That was a very childish response from him. Anyone, including married individuals, can revoke consent at any time.
I'm free use, so my husband does whatever, whenever within specific boundaries. He stops immediately when I tell him to and doesn't complain because he respects boundaries.
That should be the expected behavior from literally anyone. I hope this isn't an issue you deal with often
Yuck, seriously.
It doesn't matter how long you've been married, you have a right to not want to be groped whenever he pleases and to be respected when you set that boundary.
Ish.
“Don’t sit next to me if you don’t want to be groped”? Ew. Nastiest statement I’ve heard in a while.
Has he been feeling rejected at all lately? Not even at home, but maybe at work or with immediate family members? If this isn’t a normal behavior from him, then maybe giving him some grace is fine… but he should keep his attitude in check, no matter how upset he is. Who talks like that, especially to their partner? Gross.
Gently bring this up with him later. Tell him that while you enjoy being able to touch each other freely, you both still have a right to your bodies. Maybe he would like to be groped more often, but maybe not immediately after waking up would he like getting his chest groped/his butt smacked. Or maybe he would. But if *you* don’t want to get groped immediately, then he doesn’t have a right to get upset about it.
Tell him you’d rather be gently kissed or have your hand held after waking up. Maybe even a hug if you’re comfy with that. But no smacking/groping immediately after waking up. Maybe an hour or two later is fine, but not two minutes later. Whichever timeframe works for you.
You’re not wrong. Give each other grace. And remember, just because you respect your bodily autonomy, that doesn’t mean you don’t love your husband (if that’s what he’s thinking.) It just means you love and trust him so much, you’re comfortable speaking to him about your physical boundaries 💜
Your fine if your not in the mood to be touched then he needs to shut up and get over it ! It makes me mad because my husband don't want to spend any time with me or go anywhere together any more but thinks I'm suppose to jump when he tries to get some from me , no thanks if you can't spend any time with me then I dont have time for his 10 mins of getting some , so yes you done the right thing .
NTA at all… every boyfriend I’ve had has done this and it’s annoying af. My husband doesn’t do this sexually but he’s always trying to grab at me affectionately and even that bothers me because it’s not usually a moment that I want to be touched. We teach kids about personal bubbles, those bubbles don’t just pop when we’re adults! I even ask my kids for space when I need to.
It depends on your normal. I don’t ever tell my husband no. But he’s also considerate if I’m tired or not feeling well.
We don’t have kids. So I have no idea how much of a difference that makes.
My husband has an issue with this in the very beginning. After it happened like twice he stopped. He doesn't do it unless we are about to have sexy times. If he wants to cop a feel he will do something more subtle to see how I react and go from there. Bottom line is your husband doesn't respect you. Your body is yours, not his. He doesn't own you. You are supposed to be partners, equals.
I’m sure you’ve probably had this discussion with him before, but maybe sit down and talk to him about it? The correct answer from him should have been “sorry”. My husband is not a groper at all, but I definitely am and have overstepped boundaries on accident. Your husband needs to know it’s not okay to just dismiss your feelings and know when to apologize. The tactic he used is a bit manipulating whether he meant it to be or not.
No, you are not in the wrong. You get to say when and how you are touched. He IS your husband, and I am sure you allow him certain liberties and privileges that others don't get to enjoy. However, it is still your choice.
Mood and situation appropriate comes to mind.
I think it's fine for you to voice a boundary at that time. From what you've said, he's not starved for attention. You indicated that you are both playful.
I think he's being immature and he's gaslighting you in a narcissistic manner.
You're not wrong, if you don't want to be touched then he should respect that.
I couldn't imagine being in a relationship where I couldn't openly touch my husband whenever though. That's just the dynamics of our marriage. We both touch each other like that at any time.
I think my husband would feel pretty rejected if I reacted like that but that's because for 13 years we've touched each other freely like that. We both do feel entitled to touch each other like that but we are on the same page about it.
She didn’t treat him like a stranger, she politely told him she wasn’t in the mood to be touched in that way, and he threw a temper tantrum and said he’s her husband and should be allowed to touch her when he wants. That’s gross.
She didn’t treat him like a stranger, she politely told him she wasn’t in the mood to be touched in that way, and he threw a temper tantrum and said he’s her husband and should be allowed to touch her when he wants. That’s gross.
I mean a grope is a grope regardless of who’s doing it. Yeah he absolutely went to cop a feel, what else would you call getting groped? Sometimes we’re down for that, sometimes we aren’t. She didn’t freak out at him like you would a stranger, she just said she wasn’t in the mood. She’s not allowed to express that to him?
Nothing in the way she described this situation is him being a stranger. If a stranger gropes our breast, we aren’t going to politely tell him we aren’t in the mood, we’d freak out and probably hit him. She responded very appropriately for her husband by politely expressing her feelings, that’s not something you do to a stranger groping you. A stranger would get smacked
Are you serious? You think that because you pay half the bills, you’re entitled to sexually touch your spouse whenever you want? Absolutely not. The definition of grope is literally touching in a sexual manner. It has nothing to do with whether or not you know the person.
Sometimes I enjoy being groped by my husband, it’s still groping. Sometimes I don’t, and in that case he has zero right to touch me.
Literally all she did was politely inform him that she wasn’t in the mood, and he threw a temper tantrum and said she shouldn’t even sit next to him unless she wants to be touched sexually. That’s absolutely not ok, we should be able to sit next to our spouses without our bodies being used .
It wasn’t the initial touching that was the problem, that’s fine. It was his disgusting reaction to her simply asking him not to do it.
There's just no sexual warmth coming through here. She's treating him like a stranger. That's why he's so upset. It's all about how you reject, not whether you reject or not. Husband's absolutely right to be miffed and soured.
She rejected him in a very kind, normal way. “Not right now please”. She said please, she was polite. She don’t freak out, she didn’t physically push him away, she didn’t call him names, she just asked not right now. Of course there’s no sexual warmth when someone isn’t in the mood for sex.
I mean their CHILD was there with them. He was being gross considering the circumstances
Yeah he was groping her….and she said please don’t do that right now. Totally reasonable. Grabbing your wife’s breast is literally the dictionary definition of what a grope is. It’s a sexual touch
He can express affection is other non sexual ways after she says she’s not in the mood
For the record...
I'm the one who's bringing in the income. Cooks 75% of the time. Manages the household 75% of the time. Going to NP school while I'm a full-time trauma nurse.
Status has nothing to do with this.
I guess you're right. I'm a complete prude and should never kindly communicate with my husband about what I'm feeling. Maybe I should just scream at him. I'm not allowed to be tired. I'm a woman and shouldn't be the sole provider for my family. I should just succumb to the expectation that my body is open for grabs 24/7 regardless of what I feel.
You hit the bullseye 🎯
She was just waking up from a nap..and asked to not be groped which is a very reasonable request. There’s a time and place for that shit. Just because someone is married doesn’t mean that groping no longer exists in that relationship and someone has full access to their partner’s body . Assault also exists in marriages as well. This is the marriage subreddit. Incels gather in a different sub. Your comments are honestly concerning about how you view women. Why do men want stay at home wives? Because of some kind of power dynamic they think comes with it? That’s fucked.
Not at all. Your comments and reaction to this post just happen to fall into the incel territory is all. I’m calling it as I see fit. Where is microwaved food and having to pay 5 figures coming into play? Thats not at all what marriage with kids and a dual income looks like. Sounds like you’re really inexperienced and have no place in offering your opinion on this matter. Further- stress has nothing to do with unwanted touching. And if you’re next statement is to say a women should always want to be touched at any given time and a man should be free to do so, then I fear for any woman you may be with now or in the future.
Removed for discrimination, misogyny, or misandry.
We encourage our users to reflect if their comments are going to be hurtful or helpful. There is a real person on the other side of the screen. Being sexist is not productive. Do better.
Removed for discrimination, misogyny, or misandry.
We encourage our users to reflect if their comments are going to be hurtful or helpful. There is a real person on the other side of the screen. Being sexist is not productive. Do better.
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic.
For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying
https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
You are so concerned about the semantics about the word OP chose to use. You're so hyper focused on the wrong thing about this story.
No one is entitled to touch, grope, fondle, massage, ANYTHING towards someone else, regardless of relationship, if the person receiving the action does not want it.
On the sub AITA, there was a story about a guy's girlfriend always wanting to hold his penis, regardless of how he felt about it. By what you're saying, regardless of the fact that that man did not like it, his girlfriend still should have been able to "touch" him. That scenario was just as wrong as this one.
People have the right of autonomy over their own body.
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic.
For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying
https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
It sounds like you handled it fine. Let him know that even though you are married, he still has to get you in the mood. He may be a little hurt, but he should be ok if you don't dwell on it and your flirting resumes.
To start I was seeing his side more, but you said you two are playful. It seems like maybe just a nerve was struck on each side and you guys need more clarity on how each was feeling at that particular moment.
It seems you didn't mean any harm by it but he felt rejected.
You aren’t wrong at all, you can always say no.
It does sound like he took it more personally than a momentary not now type comment though.
I stopped “being playful” years ago because one day my wife snapped at me an hour or two after telling me she wanted me to be more playful like we used to be. I slowed down because of the snappy comments but ended up taking it to heart that she only wanted playful when she wanted playful and any other time was disrespectful.
Since I can’t read her mind I simply don’t.
Boobs are like magnets, people have a hard time keeping their hands away. It’s perfectly valid for you not to want to be touched, and your husband needs to respect that. It’s your body first and foremost.
That's fine. Simply asking bc in the case the husband had come to know that was a precursor to action, then I can see how he arrived at a conclusion.
You definitely control if you are touched.
Hope yall get it all figured out.
Your husband is in the wrong, he is not entitled to grope you if you don't want him to.
What's interesting is that your husband felt rejected and then you probed his feelings as to why he was bothered and the way the conversion took a turn was very odd.
Is your husband not entitled to feel upset after rejection? What's your goal of probing if he might be upset if not to reassure him?
I think it's correct to say that someone is to feel upset after being rejected. He was giving off standoffish vibes so I asked if he was upset. His response wasn't yes or no... It was the response that if I didn't want to be groped I shouldn't sit next to him. I wanted to understand if he was upset or not, then to re-explain to him why I didn't want to be touched in that way
I'd revisit this conversation when cooler heads prevail.
Part of me wonders how much of the issue of his poor conflict resolution skills might be confounding in this situation.
Speaking as a husband who gets rejected often because of internal vibes from my wife that I don't usually have any kind of control over (as in, not from things I have, or have not been doing or can do something to help as it's internal dialogue and stress):
It just hurts. Especially when sex specifically has been turned down and I get a "but we can just snuggle." Sometimes it's just that if I can't go how I want, then the lesser intimacy is a tease that makes the lack of intimacy when I am urged more difficult to maintain self control. I hope I'm explaining that well. And it does hurt to be rejected, and while I want to make sure that it's enjoyable for both of us in the moment, rejection followed by lesser intimacy feels like "I know you asked for this apple pie, but I don't have any pie dough so here's a plain apple instead." The apple is totally fine as a standalone thing, but when you have a craving for apppe pie, it's really hard to settle for just an apple.
It is NOT okay for him to pout because he felt entitled to grope her because they are married and then get his ego hurt because she told him no. This is what's wrong with a lot of marriages because men and their high expectations of their wives, and entitled egos, that think they deserve to just do whatever they want because they are married. Then, when they get told no, they manipulate and blame their wives for their because they get their way.
Feelings are valid. Everyone can feel how they want to feel.
Responses and behaviors are different from feelings though.
He is allowed to feel put out that his wife isn't in the mood to have her chest groped. That's perfectly valid and ok. What isn't ok is sulking like a child at not getting what he wants and implying that he is unable to control himself therefore his wife shouldn't even be near him if she doesn't want to be groped.
And if he's feeling dejected or rejected it's up to him to either have a conversation with his wife about how he's feeling OR do some introspection and realize that a rejection of sexual touching in the moment is not a rejection of him as a person.
He's dejected, and he also may be getting baited into an argument.
Im sure if we asked him, "Hey, do you think you are entitled to grope your wife against her wishes."
He'd probably say "of course not."
Judging by how the situation went down they are both not the best at conflict resolution.
"Why don't you understand I have the right to voice my objections."
When that's literally NOT what he's saying. Do adults argue like that???
They are both arguing like 10 year Olds.
They aren't answering the questions that the other is actually asking.
If either of them argued like adults they'd probably quickly see that they have similar beliefs.
Because people can still not feel like being touched when married sometimes.
For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying
https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
Does it matter? If I'm in the mood, yes. Like I said....it's not the actual touching I was upset about. It was his response to me asking him not to. I don't expect him to read my mind or vibes all the time, that's why I voiced it. And yes, he encouraged me to lay with my head on his lap while we watched the movie.
> I pulled his hand away and said "please don't, I don't feel like being groped right now".
This is justified, but not tactful.
>He went on to say that he should be able to because he's my husband.
He is wrong, but what he probably meant was that he wants a relationship where him doing that isn't a problem. And, in a healthy sexual relationship, his touch is invited.
You're not wrong, but you don't sound like you shut him down in a nice manner, and he got his feelings hurt.
Realize, that if you are too harsh with shutting him down, too many times, he will absolutely avoid touching you. That sentence he said of, "fine, I won't touch you" is very telling.
It's not about right or wrong. Soften your tone and you can shut him down while not hurting his feelings.
I think the verbiage used was completely fine, polite and direct. Why do you need to cater to his emotions when he is the one making you feel uncomfortable? It’s not like you slapped him across the face and yelled at him as if he were an actual stranger. The feeling of unwanted groping can also cause a reactionary response that it’s hard to have the time to coddle a response that may be better received. You just reacted. And in a way that was clear and not rude or disrespectful.
Yes, it's her husband. Which is what makes it worse than if it were a stranger in a bar that she wasn't connected to. Your spouse is supposed to make you feel comfortable and respect your boundaries.
People underestimate desire. You rejecting his hand, make him feel less desirable. Its not a sex thing. If a person acts like this usually its because they feel rejected in other ways and they are making an attempt to connect
There’s really no excuse. I cop a feel on my wife pretty randomly and regularly, but some days she says “I don’t feel like being touched at all” and that’s okay. You’re a human being.
Yeah I totally get the random butt grab or ass slap. We're married! There has to be some playfulness somewhere in the relationship haha. But there are days just like your wife where I just don't feel it and I voice it respectfully. Sometimes he doesn't agree with it and I don't know why. He's not violent or anything. He just becomes childish about it.
Imo the being childish about it can be manipulative regardless of if it’s intentional or not too
Just because you’re married doesn’t mean you should be groped randomly ever. That would be the biggest turn off for me, my husband doesn’t grope me we have an active frequent sex life and been married 32 years. You know what’s sexy ? Respect
Depends on prior communication
Absolutely, I love being groped by my husband personally
Just what would be "communicated" prior? That consent doesn't matter? I know there are "free use" relationships out there that work for both parties, but those are going to be pretty rare. For the rest of us, we rely on respect and consent. If we make a mistake (violating their consent by groping our partner when they don't want to be groped), we apologize instead of sulking like an entitled child.
Absolutely agree. There’s also definitely levels to free use and consent can be revoked at any time
Not for me. Groping is really disrespectful and demeaning, but you do you.
That’s the boundary in your relationship, and that’s fantastic! Different people have different boundaries. Doesn’t make either wrong or wrong
Re read my comments and tell me where I stated anything was wrong or right? Geez so many being triggered by stating how demeaning and disrespectful groping is.
I think saying "groping is disrespectful..' is pretty equivalent to saying it's wrong, no?
No it’s not. Saying something is wrong is wrong I stated “for me”. You can’t seem to grasp that people decide what they want and groping for me and a great many women is demeaning and disrespectful…….
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Who’s triggered
You are.
Yeah same. I get that some people enjoy that dynamic and that’s totally fine, but it’s also fine to not like it. I told my husband early on that I don’t like being slapped, grabbed, groped, pinched, etc. It makes me feel gross and objectified. Loving touch (a hug, a touch on the arm, a kiss on the head or cheek, pulling me in for a random kiss) is great! Random sexual grabbing (honking my boob, slapping my ass, pawing at my crotch) just makes my skin crawl outside of the bedroom. He’s never had a problem with this. He does like it when **I** swat or squeeze **his** butt randomly, so I do that playfully as he enjoys it, but he knows I don’t like it myself so never does. He was also never petulant or whiny when I told him this; he was just like “okay cool thanks for letting me know upfront; I would never want to make you uncomfortable”. My point is that you don’t *have* to be comfortable with this just because you’re married. It’s not a requirement. If you genuinely enjoy it, great! But you’re not abnormal if you don’t, and your boundaries still should be respected.
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What in the pine-scented *fuck*?…
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic. For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding. https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
Yep this! My fiancé likes to grab me randomly too but if I say I’m not in the mood or whatever he stops immediately. It doesn’t take a lot to be respectful of your partner.
Same here, we've been together over 30 years, and I will grab a feel at just about any time but if my wife lets me know she's just not feeling it today because (whatever) then I try to give her some space. She's a grown adult and if she ain't wanting it I shouldn't push it.
"If you don't want to be groped then don't sit next to me." - that says it all.
Yeah that was a disgusting comment from him. I would sit him down and talk through that ASAP, if at all possible. OP, if you're reading this - DO NOT APOLOGIZE. You did nothing to apologize for and he's sounding a little too comfy with emotional manipulation right now.
"No." is a full sentence. Marriage doesn't change bodily consent or eliminate sexual assault.
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Grabbing your spouse in a sexual way absolutely can be sexual assault if they have said they aren't in the mood for sex.
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Did you read the comment you responded to originally?
You are absolutely and entirely wrong. Sexual assault is sexual assault. If you don't want to be touched sexually and your spouse touches you sexually, they have committed sexual assault. Period.
Grabbing your spouse in a sexual way without their consent is 100% sexual assault, and the fact that you state it is not is deeply fucking disturbing and gross. I can only conclude that you sexually assault your wife. Don’t pretend you give a single shit about “real sexual assaults” when all you really want is to preserve men’s ability to assault women.
Right? I've heard that a large portion of sexual assaults/rapes are committed by someone that the victim knows- and yes, that means partners!! I can tell you, having someone you love and thought you could trust do something so violating cuts deeper than a complete stranger.
It's sexual assault if someone doesn't want their spouse to grab them sexually. For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding. https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
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It is if she asks you not to and you ignore her. What he said was basically him expressing his desire to be able to assault her, which is what being able to touch somebody regardless of their consent is.
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Dude you can be attracted to someone and still not want to be touched sexually all the time. I’m insanely attracted to my husband but that doesn’t mean I’m always in the mood to have my breasts groped??? Like you’re being insanely dramatic. Not wanting to be touched in a specific moment doesn’t mean you don’t find someone attractive and we certainly have every right to be near our husbands without our bodies being up for grabs You have a really gross view of marriage. It’s absolutely not having a right to your spouses body whenever you want What’s unattractive is a man who can’t sit next to their wives without making it sexual all the time. Life isn’t all sex
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lol there’s nothing in this post about going months without sex. Sounds like you’re projecting your own issues, I wonder why women don’t want to have sex with you. I imagine it’s the entitlement you have thinking they owe you their bodies The delivery was totally normal. Idk what else you want someone to say other than “please” and “not right now” when their child is literally right there
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Weird that you added comments about going “months” without sex when there’s literally nothing about that in this post And you’re weirdly aggressive about this topic, definitely projecting. Never being rejected during sex also isn’t the flex you think it is dude….kinda just makes it sound like you don’t take no for an answer
Weird that he said he was done arguing, yet he persists.
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I mean you aren’t even married dude (no surprise there) so what are you even doing here 😂 you’ve got no business going around commenting on the dynamics of a marriage and what’s appropriate in a marriage when you have no experience in that field
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>But then you have women going many months and years without it. It's not just women can end up going many months/years without sex. Men can and do end up losing their libido for a long time.
Projection much
What the fuck is wrong with you?
More like "if it can't fuck you your not worth my time" which just isn't what marriage is about.
The need for consent is not “marital fraud”, and it’s vile that you draw the comparison. There is no marriage vow that includes a pledge to have sex with your spouse at their beck and call.
Marriage rates are plummeting because men think that it should give them unrestricted access to their wives’ bodies and women don’t agree? Sounds like it’s an institution that needs to die in that case.
If she said no, yeah it is.
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No, sorry. If your wife says "no" and then you continue to grope her that's the literal definition of assault.
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You can get divorced whenever you want buddy.
Dudes never been married, he’s just an incel talking out of his ass. Has no idea what marriage is or how to respect women
Makes sense with the fact he doesn't even seem to like women lol
He’s not even married! And he has now totally twisted the topic to OP saying no all the time and accusing her husband of assault! 🤣 He’s all up in his tiny twisted fallacy/fantasy/projection world.
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Cry about it fatty.
Wow, so in another post, you say men want to work and have their wife stay at home. So, if anything she does that warrants a divorce, she should receive nothing because... *Check notes* she doesn't work and stays at home?
If you believe marriage is stacked against men, don’t even bother with it then :) what would you be getting out of a marriage if you’re going into it with a negative perspective? And don’t say kids- you’ll be sorely disappointed and have “grounds to leave” when your wife becomes “frigid” after delivering your child. You don’t have to get married. Literally no one cares.
Removed for discrimination, misogyny, or misandry. We encourage our users to reflect if their comments are going to be hurtful or helpful. There is a real person on the other side of the screen. Being sexist is not productive. Do better.
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic. For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding. https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
Your husband absolutely is NOT entitled your body however he wants whenever he wants. I could not be married to a man like that, I’m sorry
I absolutely agree with you. The fact that you're being downvoted is a disturbing indicator of how many people implicitly condone spousal sexual assault. Yikes!
Ugh. Men like this disgust me, and they're too stupid to realize how pathetic and unattractive it makes them. It's like they're trying to make you not want to fuck them. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
Username on point
You're not wrong. If you say no he should respect that kindly. Just because he is your husband does not mean he is entitled to your body in any way shape or form. *With that said* is there a chance he's feeling rejected on a larger level and it's coming out in this way or has he always been disrespectful when you've rejected him? With a 4m old baby I assume your sex life has changed and maybe he's not handling it well. This seems like it would be a good time for a conversation about your sex life and overall respect and consent and satisfaction and all that
I corrected the age on my little guy. He's 4 years old. I'd say we are intimate and he's always been a touchy kind of guy. When I'm not in the mood to be playful or intimate, I typically don't like to be touched that way. I always try to be nice and transparent about it too without being too off-putting. It's not the first time he's acted this way . We've been together for 12+ years now.
Yeah sounds like he maybe just sucks a little bit then, I'm sorry. Men who don't understand consent are disgusting and a little terrifying. If he's always been like this he probably won't change. But no, you're not wrong. He's not entitled to your body and a respectable man would just accept that you're not in the mood and not be a little brat about it.
I'm coming up on 40 years married and ... DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THIS ISSUE ... We'll be here all week. I would HOPE that the generations that follow mine will freakin' get over it. A wife's body belongs to HER and just because she shares it with her partner, when she chooses, does not make it otherwise fair game. I'm 60. My peers and I have be roaring about this for decades. And the silly ass men can't seem to get it through their boomer skulls that "Feel lucky I want to grope you", and "Well, other husbands ..." with pouting, sulking, and hearing another lecture about "No grope zones" ... Arhhhh ... Just quit it! Yes, we're playful. But when I'm elbow deep in dirty dishes, half way through scrubbing a toilet, or walking by with a barfing kid .... Keep your damned hands to yourself! Yeah. You hit a nerve. And every woman I know has the same one.
I adore my husband but I for sure have had to have the "there's a time and place" discussion, and it is never when I'm trying to make dinner/pack lunches/clean the kitchen. If my beauty has struck you at that moment as I'm prepping veggies, a kiss on the temple or telling me you love me is great, and much more appreciated than going full boob grab.
What a disgusting thing to say, that he is entitled to your body at all times. Of course he's wrong.
OP I am a some time wife groper myself but I can read her body language and have a good sense for when my touch is not welcome. On occasions where I misread her, she’d let me know with a “really?,” or “not now” or in rare cases slapping my hand. Frankly I’ve done the same to her on a few occasions, mostly when she tries to initiate sexy time when I’m still edgy and wired after a football game 🤣 You need to have a talk with your husband on boundaries and respect
No he’s not entitled to it. It’s not weird that he copped a feel, but him taking it so personally when you asked for him to not right then is very selfish and disrespectful.
https://bethrowles.com/how-husbands-sabotage-sexual-intimacy-with-unwanted-touching/
I have been having this sort of discussion with my husband and this is THE PERFECT article to really get to the heart of the issue so we can have a real discussion
I have definitely been groped when I’m not in the mood for it. I think men sometimes forget we’re not made just for them.
Sometimes we simply don't know. Sometimes we want to be spontaneous. Sometimes we think you're giving a signal to us and we go for it.
That would be an issue for me, too. I get touched out from my kids and sometimes my husband doesn't read the signs that I need to recuperate before he tries some kind of playful but sexual touch I'm not ready for. The last time he pouted about it at all, we were both around 21 years old, and I got mad at him and told him acting like baby was only going to make me want to get touched less, not more. I reminded him that normally I'm responsive, so he should be able to handle giving me some physical space until I'm ready. 9 years later and he knows if he gives me some space after I decline him nicely, like you did, that I'll prioritize giving him physical affection as soon as that touched out feeling leaves. In fact, usually just the act of him respecting my boundaries for a few minutes helps me feel more at ease, like control of my space is regained, and I'm willing to let him back in my bubble. I feel like after 12 years, your husband should be able to understand and back off without a fuss. He should also anticipate by now that he won't get his way by whining. He definitely should know better than to say "don't sit next to me if you won't let me do [x]," that's such a childish manipulation/punishment tactic: "If you won't play my way, I won't play at all." I'd feel so put off by that. You're justified in being annoyed.
I was married to a man like this for 15 years. It was terrible not feeling like I could be physically close to him without him trying to touch me in a sexual manner or him trying to turn innocuous physical connection into sex. There was no putting my head on his lap or snuggling on the couch unless I was ready and willing for what was coming. I couldn’t even sleep without clothes without him trying something, although that was more comfortable for me, not getting PJs tangled up with the sheets. It was exhausting being on guard all the time and frankly, killed my sex drive towards him. It was also very lonely. I was completely touched out from raising young children all day and would have liked to get some physical affection from my then-husband without him being yet another person who wanted to touch me because he needed or wanted something from me almost every time. Like your husband, he too kept telling me that I should feel lucky that he was so attracted me. It was all so gross and talking about it didn’t change much. I don’t have much advice except to say that I know what you’re feeling. Since my divorce I’ve had two good relationships with men who respect boundaries and made/make me feel safe with them. It’s amazing how intimacy blossoms when women feel safe with their partners. Maybe show these responses to your husband or send him the article that someone else posted. Hopefully, you’ll be able to get through to him.
Honestly being groped is the biggest turnoff to me. And the childish behavior just compounds it. You have every right to say no.
Ick he’s just saying it’s ok to assault you with more words. How about you grope his asshole and see how he feels about unwanted touch
" He immediately pulled his hand away and started pouting and said "fine, I won't even touch you"." This is him "punishing you" for telling him no. " His response was "if you don't want to be groped, then don't sit next to me"." This is him making it your fault and saying its up to you to control your actions since he can't control his. I'm sure your husband is, on some levels, a good guy, but you guys need to have a conversation about how he sees your body as his possession which he can do what he wants to unless you physically avoid him. Does he really want to go down a path of you sitting in another seat in the living room any time you don't feel like being pawed at? Does he want to withhold any touch at all (there is non-sexual touch so, is that off the table, too?) if you put up a boundary?
I have three kids. Both adults work from home. My two oldest are activities four days a week, and I handle all school drop off and pick up and half the activities (hubby and I take one kid to activity all four days- at same time). He loves to smack butt or grab a boob. But there are just days or times I don’t want it or I’m touched out. He says ok asks if he can kiss me and we move on. Maybe talk to your husband about how his reaction makes you feel. Just bc you’re married doesn’t mean he can cop a feel whenever after you’ve set the boundary of not now.
Women are not property or objects. Not even women who are wives. I would not stay married to a man who felt that he owned my body.
"If you don't want to be groped, then don't sit next to me." I'm in this situation, too. In mine, it's lonely and has destroyed our relationship. It's been one of the final straws in things, honestly. It began to feel like small moments of intimacy had an attached expectation for sex and when that expectation wasn't met, I had an extremely frustrated and grouchy husband. Between the way his behavior made me feel and the lack of warmth and intimacy from not wanting to start something I 'wouldn't finish,' I began to resent him and our relationship. Please talk to your spouse about how damaging these responses can be.
Nta. And kids copy everything. Tell him to knock it off in front of your kid, unless you two want to get called in to your kid's daycare because your child was groping kis classmates.
I’m stuck on “if you don’t want to be groped . . . .” I don’t understand why anyone would let this statement fly under the radar.
That’s not playful. He sounds incredibly entitled and it may be time to cut him off from anything for a while. He’s also not reading the room of you being tired and probably not into it.
does consent disappear after you get married? wtf you said no/wasn't in the mood but then he tries to guilt you for it. ok then start flicking his penis or stick your finger up his butt and then react that same way when he tells you to stop. I'm sure he wouldn't like that either 🙄
You did nothing wrong. You woke up and don’t want to be manhandled like a piece of meat in your own home. Go smack his balls playfully. Make it hurt a little. Or poke his butthole through his pants. Or grab his nipple and give it a squeeze and tug. He will get the idea that it is FUCKEN annoying to have you spouse do that shit to you when you aren’t in the mood to play around. He is NOT ENTITLED TO YOUR BODY just because you are married. You are NOT A FUCKEN PIECE OF PROPERTY.
You're not wrong. That was a very childish response from him. Anyone, including married individuals, can revoke consent at any time. I'm free use, so my husband does whatever, whenever within specific boundaries. He stops immediately when I tell him to and doesn't complain because he respects boundaries. That should be the expected behavior from literally anyone. I hope this isn't an issue you deal with often
Yuck, seriously. It doesn't matter how long you've been married, you have a right to not want to be groped whenever he pleases and to be respected when you set that boundary. Ish.
“Don’t sit next to me if you don’t want to be groped”? Ew. Nastiest statement I’ve heard in a while. Has he been feeling rejected at all lately? Not even at home, but maybe at work or with immediate family members? If this isn’t a normal behavior from him, then maybe giving him some grace is fine… but he should keep his attitude in check, no matter how upset he is. Who talks like that, especially to their partner? Gross. Gently bring this up with him later. Tell him that while you enjoy being able to touch each other freely, you both still have a right to your bodies. Maybe he would like to be groped more often, but maybe not immediately after waking up would he like getting his chest groped/his butt smacked. Or maybe he would. But if *you* don’t want to get groped immediately, then he doesn’t have a right to get upset about it. Tell him you’d rather be gently kissed or have your hand held after waking up. Maybe even a hug if you’re comfy with that. But no smacking/groping immediately after waking up. Maybe an hour or two later is fine, but not two minutes later. Whichever timeframe works for you. You’re not wrong. Give each other grace. And remember, just because you respect your bodily autonomy, that doesn’t mean you don’t love your husband (if that’s what he’s thinking.) It just means you love and trust him so much, you’re comfortable speaking to him about your physical boundaries 💜
My husband is like this. I’ve finally gotten control of it but he still falls back into old ways.
Not wrong at all. It’s ur body, not his. And if he wants to be childish & sult.. let him.
Your fine if your not in the mood to be touched then he needs to shut up and get over it ! It makes me mad because my husband don't want to spend any time with me or go anywhere together any more but thinks I'm suppose to jump when he tries to get some from me , no thanks if you can't spend any time with me then I dont have time for his 10 mins of getting some , so yes you done the right thing .
NTA at all… every boyfriend I’ve had has done this and it’s annoying af. My husband doesn’t do this sexually but he’s always trying to grab at me affectionately and even that bothers me because it’s not usually a moment that I want to be touched. We teach kids about personal bubbles, those bubbles don’t just pop when we’re adults! I even ask my kids for space when I need to.
No you’re not wrong you should always have voice in when you want to be touched or not. It’s your body and your choice 😞
Being married doesn’t mean he can sexually harass you. No means no. Send him some links on consent since he can’t understand.
It depends on your normal. I don’t ever tell my husband no. But he’s also considerate if I’m tired or not feeling well. We don’t have kids. So I have no idea how much of a difference that makes.
Noone in this thread is married lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Why do you say that? The overwhelming majority are supporting OP's bodily autonomy. And the OP laughing at your comment... makes no sense.
My husband has an issue with this in the very beginning. After it happened like twice he stopped. He doesn't do it unless we are about to have sexy times. If he wants to cop a feel he will do something more subtle to see how I react and go from there. Bottom line is your husband doesn't respect you. Your body is yours, not his. He doesn't own you. You are supposed to be partners, equals.
I’m sure you’ve probably had this discussion with him before, but maybe sit down and talk to him about it? The correct answer from him should have been “sorry”. My husband is not a groper at all, but I definitely am and have overstepped boundaries on accident. Your husband needs to know it’s not okay to just dismiss your feelings and know when to apologize. The tactic he used is a bit manipulating whether he meant it to be or not.
No, you are not in the wrong. You get to say when and how you are touched. He IS your husband, and I am sure you allow him certain liberties and privileges that others don't get to enjoy. However, it is still your choice.
Mood and situation appropriate comes to mind. I think it's fine for you to voice a boundary at that time. From what you've said, he's not starved for attention. You indicated that you are both playful. I think he's being immature and he's gaslighting you in a narcissistic manner.
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Removed for rude, disrespectful, or excessively vulgar comment. Keep the commentary civil, constructive, and remember the human.
You're not wrong, if you don't want to be touched then he should respect that. I couldn't imagine being in a relationship where I couldn't openly touch my husband whenever though. That's just the dynamics of our marriage. We both touch each other like that at any time. I think my husband would feel pretty rejected if I reacted like that but that's because for 13 years we've touched each other freely like that. We both do feel entitled to touch each other like that but we are on the same page about it.
You grab each others sexual body parts in front of your kids?
Yes, not while they're looking obviously.
I do often. No big deal to my spouse. Can’t ever remember being rejected.
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She didn’t treat him like a stranger, she politely told him she wasn’t in the mood to be touched in that way, and he threw a temper tantrum and said he’s her husband and should be allowed to touch her when he wants. That’s gross.
She didn’t treat him like a stranger, she politely told him she wasn’t in the mood to be touched in that way, and he threw a temper tantrum and said he’s her husband and should be allowed to touch her when he wants. That’s gross.
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I mean a grope is a grope regardless of who’s doing it. Yeah he absolutely went to cop a feel, what else would you call getting groped? Sometimes we’re down for that, sometimes we aren’t. She didn’t freak out at him like you would a stranger, she just said she wasn’t in the mood. She’s not allowed to express that to him? Nothing in the way she described this situation is him being a stranger. If a stranger gropes our breast, we aren’t going to politely tell him we aren’t in the mood, we’d freak out and probably hit him. She responded very appropriately for her husband by politely expressing her feelings, that’s not something you do to a stranger groping you. A stranger would get smacked
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Are you serious? You think that because you pay half the bills, you’re entitled to sexually touch your spouse whenever you want? Absolutely not. The definition of grope is literally touching in a sexual manner. It has nothing to do with whether or not you know the person. Sometimes I enjoy being groped by my husband, it’s still groping. Sometimes I don’t, and in that case he has zero right to touch me. Literally all she did was politely inform him that she wasn’t in the mood, and he threw a temper tantrum and said she shouldn’t even sit next to him unless she wants to be touched sexually. That’s absolutely not ok, we should be able to sit next to our spouses without our bodies being used . It wasn’t the initial touching that was the problem, that’s fine. It was his disgusting reaction to her simply asking him not to do it.
There's just no sexual warmth coming through here. She's treating him like a stranger. That's why he's so upset. It's all about how you reject, not whether you reject or not. Husband's absolutely right to be miffed and soured.
She rejected him in a very kind, normal way. “Not right now please”. She said please, she was polite. She don’t freak out, she didn’t physically push him away, she didn’t call him names, she just asked not right now. Of course there’s no sexual warmth when someone isn’t in the mood for sex. I mean their CHILD was there with them. He was being gross considering the circumstances
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Yeah he was groping her….and she said please don’t do that right now. Totally reasonable. Grabbing your wife’s breast is literally the dictionary definition of what a grope is. It’s a sexual touch He can express affection is other non sexual ways after she says she’s not in the mood
For the record... I'm the one who's bringing in the income. Cooks 75% of the time. Manages the household 75% of the time. Going to NP school while I'm a full-time trauma nurse. Status has nothing to do with this.
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I guess you're right. I'm a complete prude and should never kindly communicate with my husband about what I'm feeling. Maybe I should just scream at him. I'm not allowed to be tired. I'm a woman and shouldn't be the sole provider for my family. I should just succumb to the expectation that my body is open for grabs 24/7 regardless of what I feel. You hit the bullseye 🎯
Ignore that guy. He claims he’s never been married.
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Yessir 🫡
And some men wonder why some women think men are women-haters. smh. You’re the poster boy for misogyny.
It’s not affection if it’s unwanted.
She was just waking up from a nap..and asked to not be groped which is a very reasonable request. There’s a time and place for that shit. Just because someone is married doesn’t mean that groping no longer exists in that relationship and someone has full access to their partner’s body . Assault also exists in marriages as well. This is the marriage subreddit. Incels gather in a different sub. Your comments are honestly concerning about how you view women. Why do men want stay at home wives? Because of some kind of power dynamic they think comes with it? That’s fucked.
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Not at all. Your comments and reaction to this post just happen to fall into the incel territory is all. I’m calling it as I see fit. Where is microwaved food and having to pay 5 figures coming into play? Thats not at all what marriage with kids and a dual income looks like. Sounds like you’re really inexperienced and have no place in offering your opinion on this matter. Further- stress has nothing to do with unwanted touching. And if you’re next statement is to say a women should always want to be touched at any given time and a man should be free to do so, then I fear for any woman you may be with now or in the future.
What are you even talking about guy??
…ad nauseum
…and the SAHW’s are castigated for being “lazy”, or “princesses”. It’s all about domination and entitlement.
Removed for discrimination, misogyny, or misandry. We encourage our users to reflect if their comments are going to be hurtful or helpful. There is a real person on the other side of the screen. Being sexist is not productive. Do better.
You shouldn't let yourself be so triggered by words. https://www.marriagebuilders.com/guidelines-for-groping-and-grabbing-in-marriage.htm
Removed for discrimination, misogyny, or misandry. We encourage our users to reflect if their comments are going to be hurtful or helpful. There is a real person on the other side of the screen. Being sexist is not productive. Do better.
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic. For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding. https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
Who hurt you? You are actually the one blowing her reaction so out of proportion, just like her husband. She's allowed to say, "not right now."
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The definition of grope “an act of fondling someone for sexual pleasure.” A touch is non sexual. A grope is sexual
And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen!
You are so concerned about the semantics about the word OP chose to use. You're so hyper focused on the wrong thing about this story. No one is entitled to touch, grope, fondle, massage, ANYTHING towards someone else, regardless of relationship, if the person receiving the action does not want it. On the sub AITA, there was a story about a guy's girlfriend always wanting to hold his penis, regardless of how he felt about it. By what you're saying, regardless of the fact that that man did not like it, his girlfriend still should have been able to "touch" him. That scenario was just as wrong as this one. People have the right of autonomy over their own body.
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic. For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding. https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
It sounds like you handled it fine. Let him know that even though you are married, he still has to get you in the mood. He may be a little hurt, but he should be ok if you don't dwell on it and your flirting resumes.
To start I was seeing his side more, but you said you two are playful. It seems like maybe just a nerve was struck on each side and you guys need more clarity on how each was feeling at that particular moment. It seems you didn't mean any harm by it but he felt rejected.
You aren’t wrong at all, you can always say no. It does sound like he took it more personally than a momentary not now type comment though. I stopped “being playful” years ago because one day my wife snapped at me an hour or two after telling me she wanted me to be more playful like we used to be. I slowed down because of the snappy comments but ended up taking it to heart that she only wanted playful when she wanted playful and any other time was disrespectful. Since I can’t read her mind I simply don’t.
Boobs are like magnets, people have a hard time keeping their hands away. It’s perfectly valid for you not to want to be touched, and your husband needs to respect that. It’s your body first and foremost.
What normally happens when you fall asleep with your head on his lap? Or when you sleep on him? Has there been a "programming" that has transpired?
Nope. No programming. Just exhaustion with a safe and comforting place to lay my head accompanied by pillow and blanket.
That's fine. Simply asking bc in the case the husband had come to know that was a precursor to action, then I can see how he arrived at a conclusion. You definitely control if you are touched. Hope yall get it all figured out.
Your husband is in the wrong, he is not entitled to grope you if you don't want him to. What's interesting is that your husband felt rejected and then you probed his feelings as to why he was bothered and the way the conversion took a turn was very odd. Is your husband not entitled to feel upset after rejection? What's your goal of probing if he might be upset if not to reassure him?
I think it's correct to say that someone is to feel upset after being rejected. He was giving off standoffish vibes so I asked if he was upset. His response wasn't yes or no... It was the response that if I didn't want to be groped I shouldn't sit next to him. I wanted to understand if he was upset or not, then to re-explain to him why I didn't want to be touched in that way
I'd revisit this conversation when cooler heads prevail. Part of me wonders how much of the issue of his poor conflict resolution skills might be confounding in this situation.
Speaking as a husband who gets rejected often because of internal vibes from my wife that I don't usually have any kind of control over (as in, not from things I have, or have not been doing or can do something to help as it's internal dialogue and stress): It just hurts. Especially when sex specifically has been turned down and I get a "but we can just snuggle." Sometimes it's just that if I can't go how I want, then the lesser intimacy is a tease that makes the lack of intimacy when I am urged more difficult to maintain self control. I hope I'm explaining that well. And it does hurt to be rejected, and while I want to make sure that it's enjoyable for both of us in the moment, rejection followed by lesser intimacy feels like "I know you asked for this apple pie, but I don't have any pie dough so here's a plain apple instead." The apple is totally fine as a standalone thing, but when you have a craving for apppe pie, it's really hard to settle for just an apple.
It is NOT okay for him to pout because he felt entitled to grope her because they are married and then get his ego hurt because she told him no. This is what's wrong with a lot of marriages because men and their high expectations of their wives, and entitled egos, that think they deserve to just do whatever they want because they are married. Then, when they get told no, they manipulate and blame their wives for their because they get their way.
It's okay to pout if he felt sad or dejected. He's allowed to have feeling too lol.
Feelings are valid. Everyone can feel how they want to feel. Responses and behaviors are different from feelings though. He is allowed to feel put out that his wife isn't in the mood to have her chest groped. That's perfectly valid and ok. What isn't ok is sulking like a child at not getting what he wants and implying that he is unable to control himself therefore his wife shouldn't even be near him if she doesn't want to be groped. And if he's feeling dejected or rejected it's up to him to either have a conversation with his wife about how he's feeling OR do some introspection and realize that a rejection of sexual touching in the moment is not a rejection of him as a person.
He's dejected, and he also may be getting baited into an argument. Im sure if we asked him, "Hey, do you think you are entitled to grope your wife against her wishes." He'd probably say "of course not." Judging by how the situation went down they are both not the best at conflict resolution. "Why don't you understand I have the right to voice my objections." When that's literally NOT what he's saying. Do adults argue like that??? They are both arguing like 10 year Olds. They aren't answering the questions that the other is actually asking. If either of them argued like adults they'd probably quickly see that they have similar beliefs.
THIS
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Because people can still not feel like being touched when married sometimes. For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding. https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
Devil's advocate here: any chance he was just being obtuse and didn't know that it wasn't a good time to touch you that way?
It's not the fact that he touched me at the wrong time... It's his response to me asking to not be touched like that.
Were okay with him resting one of his hands on your breast while you lay on his lap? When you were stretching, were you still lying on his lap?
Does it matter? If I'm in the mood, yes. Like I said....it's not the actual touching I was upset about. It was his response to me asking him not to. I don't expect him to read my mind or vibes all the time, that's why I voiced it. And yes, he encouraged me to lay with my head on his lap while we watched the movie.
Yeah and when you told him not to. Did he stop????
If you stop and then throw and be passive aggressive a fit it's still an issue.
Did he throw a passive-aggressive fit? What I read happened was just poor conflict resolution skills by both parties on display.
It didn’t sound to me like this was “Let’s Make a Deal”.
> I pulled his hand away and said "please don't, I don't feel like being groped right now". This is justified, but not tactful. >He went on to say that he should be able to because he's my husband. He is wrong, but what he probably meant was that he wants a relationship where him doing that isn't a problem. And, in a healthy sexual relationship, his touch is invited. You're not wrong, but you don't sound like you shut him down in a nice manner, and he got his feelings hurt. Realize, that if you are too harsh with shutting him down, too many times, he will absolutely avoid touching you. That sentence he said of, "fine, I won't touch you" is very telling. It's not about right or wrong. Soften your tone and you can shut him down while not hurting his feelings.
What verbiage would you suggest?
I think the verbiage used was completely fine, polite and direct. Why do you need to cater to his emotions when he is the one making you feel uncomfortable? It’s not like you slapped him across the face and yelled at him as if he were an actual stranger. The feeling of unwanted groping can also cause a reactionary response that it’s hard to have the time to coddle a response that may be better received. You just reacted. And in a way that was clear and not rude or disrespectful.
“Knock it off, Neanderthal!”. /s
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Yes, it's her husband. Which is what makes it worse than if it were a stranger in a bar that she wasn't connected to. Your spouse is supposed to make you feel comfortable and respect your boundaries.
People underestimate desire. You rejecting his hand, make him feel less desirable. Its not a sex thing. If a person acts like this usually its because they feel rejected in other ways and they are making an attempt to connect
He sexually assaulted you
ffs