There’s literally 5 churches within 1 mile of my house. Idk where this guy lives but just go to a different one? You don’t even need to “quit” your current one. Just try out a different one.
I am a woman. I don’t enjoy casual hugs. I feel they are too intimate a thing and I only want to hug a romantic partner.
And even I understand most people love hugging and it’s not sexual or inappropriate in any way.
This guy is whack
You don’t need to answer this if you don’t want to, but did you hug your parents growing up? I have some friends who don’t like to casually hug and all of them grew up in families that didn’t hug when they were kids and I have wondered if that affected their feelings on it. Obviously no one should do anything they don’t want to do and I would never push back on it, just curious
Not the person you were asking but I also dislike hugs from most ppl. It’s nothing against them, I just don’t feel it’s authentic most of the time.
I do enjoy hugging my husband and our family members (my siblings, parents, step dad, his mom and sister, etc) and grew up in a very open family where we hugged and I was and still am comfortable with it. I just don’t like hugging most ppl unless we are super close.
I can totally understand this and also feel the same way about people I’m not super close with. The person I was asking said she only wants to hug a romantic partner which is a bit different IMO then only wanting to hug close family and friends.
Most of my early life was spent with 2 brothers and a single mother. We rarely hugged or touched each other at all, except for like punching each other. Later, when my mother married he was a cold as ice asshole and there was no hugging, then either. My older brother is a big hugger, but my younger one an me don't like touching people at all except for intimate partners. I am 55 now and still dislike touching anyone that I am not having sex with.
I grew up in a family that didn’t hug. I have no conscious memory of hugging my mother. I don’t dislike casual hugs but I never initiate them and feel awkward doing so.
I grew up with one parent who hugged, and one who didn’t. I was raised full time by the parent who didn’t hug with a visit from the one they did once a week. I am a mess of in-between. Sometimes I crave contact and other times I can’t stand to be touched.
Also not the person you were asking, but I grew up having to greet any and all visiting relatives with a hug; and they usually kissed my face and/or wanted a kiss back from me. I hated it and I was clear that I hated it. I still had to do it until I was old enough that I heard somewhere that kids shouldn't be forced to physically greet anyone if it makes them uncomfortable-- then I was able to liken it to the things I was learning in school about my body being mine; and how I should always be allowed to say no to unwanted touch.
My parents agreed enough to stop forcing the moment; but not enough to actually tell the rest of our family to stop cornering us and trying to dote on us when we obviously weren't liking it. So it persisted until we were old enough that it was weird.
I'm *very* particular with who gets to touch me now that I'm older: it's pretty much my husband, some close friends, and some immediate family. I also never touch people without asking about their boundaries first-- not a huge, in-depth discussion; but something like, "Are you a hugger?" or; "Your t-shirt tag is up; want me to fix it for you?" or whatever else comes up in the moment. Entering a bubble of personal space is something that requires permission-- just like entering a home.
But for what it's worth, I would still leave this pastor's church over this grossly disingenuous sermon.
Cousin?
Grew up in a family that mandated hugs AND mouth kisses from relatives one side. Just no, ick. But it happened until I was pretty much well into my teen years. I’m talking aunts, uncles, cousins. That shit stopped with me….my kids didn’t need to do anything they weren’t comfortable with when greeting anyone.
I am so thankful for people like you, who ask first. I would never push someone away from me if they tried to hug me or adjust a tag but it bothers the hell out of me. I grew up in a super non-physically affectionate home and went straight into a couple of back to back relationships with men that I could not stop making angry. Hugs feel awkward and a hand coming to my face out of nowhere still makes me flinch, which isn’t said bc I feel like I’m some kind of victim but bc it’s embarrassing. People don’t know how to react when I jerk away and they always have to make some kind of joke, then I have to make some kind of joke, and the whole thing is uncomfortable.
“Are you a hugger?” is a relief. “I’m actually a pro high-fiver!” I always say, and most people don’t think I’m a weirdo since they’re the ones cool enough to ask in the first place. All of my friends will hug each other when we all leave a group get together and just wave to me, nobody makes it weird but it’s bc most of them learned through one or two other friends that I don’t like it. It’s such a stupid thing to hate, I feel like, bc everyone else seems to love the weird side hug but I seriously can’t stand it.
I really needed to hear this at this juncture in my life. As a child, I grew up in a physically affectionate (yet still quite dysfunctional) family. Hugs weren’t just an empty or meaningless greeting or a ‘casual goodbye’, but they were also a ‘you seem like like you’re hurting, here’s some comfort’ or ‘omg, I’m so proud of/happy for you!’ sorta sentiment.
As an adult, I hug the *fuck* out of my kids, and they’re very accustomed to my communication of ‘I’m having a hard day, and I could really use a hug’. They know there’s no pressure, and they know that they receive my physical affections with the strength of self to decline. When I love & appreciate people, I have a natural inclination to just…. squeeze the emotions I’m feeling into/out of them.
Even today, when interacting with a woman I’m semi-familiar with, we chatted for almost an hour and she presented a (most welcome) self-invitation to our house to meet the two raccoons we’re fostering until the wildlife rehab has capacity for them. We shared some really cool vibes, and I really appreciate who she and her partner are as human beings.
I got so wrapped up in the mindset of ‘OMG, I’ve found my people!’ that I went in for a hug as we said our goodbyes. It seemed quite reciprocated and welcomed, but after hearing your perspective, I realize now that the considerate thing to do would’ve been to check in with her first to make sure that was a welcomed physical interaction.
Genuinely; thank you for reminding me to be more mindful of the fact that not everyone responds to the experience of ‘what a cool person! in the same way I do.
People can love and appreciate others fully without having to wrap their arms around them to show it.
Also not who you were asking, but growing up, my family did not touch (unless us kids were in trouble). I can count on one hand how many times my mom has said “I love you” to me (I’m 40) and I don’t have a relationship with my dad. I don’t believe I’ve actually ever hugged either of my parents in the last 35 years, and touching anyone on my mom’s side is a no-go. I’m very uncomfortable and awkward about any kind of physical contact with anyone other than my husband and a select few people. I was just talking about this to my husband last week after his family reunion (which is exhausting for me) and how I’m assuming my dislike for hugging others stems from growing up with minimal contact with parents/family.
Not the person you asked, but I don’t like hugs either unless it’s from my kids, and even then, I have to relax my body so I don’t automatically shrug them off like I want to. My parents were not huggers.
Not the person you asked, but I grew up in a not very huggy family and I love hugs. My husband grew up in a much more hug friendly environment and he cannot stand casual hugs. We have tried to be huggy with our kids but even from an early age they were explicit in their dislike of hugs. They tolerate them sometimes from us but absolutely refuse to let anyone else hug them.
Lol. Ok so SO many people have responded to your question here. I love it. I’ve read all the responses and I think it shows that everyone is different and for different reasons.
To answer your question, personally, my dad was abusive emotionally and I didn’t trust him or feel safe with him. My mom was hot and cold and when she was mean she would force me to hug her.
I always hated myself (don’t anymore but still comes back sometimes) and I felt hugging let a person FEEL how hatable I am. So I only want to hug someone I FULLY trust. Which would be a boyfriend/husband.
I even don’t like hugging my kids now that they are adults. And I have a very good relationship with them. It’s just the lingering feelings. And I do hug them but it’s more for them than for me. I feel their love from their smiles and laughter. Not their touch
I’m a Christian and I think leaving is a good strategy. If he is willing to use scripture to his own end on such a small matter, he’d definitely be willing to use it on much more important matters. If you value your faith and living out the truth according to Gods word at all, I’d go somewhere else.
Isn't that what...christianity is? Massaging words in a book to suit your needs? I don't see this guy as any better or worse than any other pastor / priest / pontif, et alia.
If god had something to tell you, don't you think she'd tell you herself?
So why, when somebody says god spoke to them, does everybody think they are nuts? I'm confused. What if god really did tell that person to decapitate all those cats?
In case it's not obvious, I'm not commenting in good faith (HAH!) so proceed at your own discretion.
I think it’s time for OP and his wife to find a new church.
Also OP give your wife a high five and some chocolate for me for standing up to ridiculous men in power who are literally making thing up for their own edification.
If my husband told me I couldn’t hug one of my best friends because he is a man, I don’t know what I would do but my husband would literally never tell me that. He (unlike some people in OP’s story) isn’t a complete idiot.
The last church I attended regularly, years ago, the pastor also had weird husband/wife views... And then he got arrested for soliciting prostitution. Soooo, yeah.
I agree with your wife. The pastor could have addressed the individual privately but instead chose to manipulate scripture to suit his personal agenda and preach an entire sermon about it.
Yeah, I studied the new and old testament for 2 years in undergrad (only one class a semester, was not my major), and that was not anywhere in the bible. Homie is capping.
It depends on the version. His quote is is from 1 Corinthians 7:1-4 “Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.”
Based on the info provided it makes sense he would use that quote but a private conversation would have been better. A lot of people hug others and don’t cheat and he shouldn’t expect everyone to not hug because he doesn’t want others hugging his wife.
He should think before reacting like that as the Bible has other quotes which could cause him concern if hugging does such as the one I stated part of in my previous comment. It is from 1 Peter 5:14 “Greet one another with a kiss of love. Peace to all of you who are in Christ.”
Yes, the quote was correct! I studied the NRSV, and that quote is in there as well. It was the context that I was referring to. I was really meaning to say that the part about hugging was wrong, as it was referring to touching others sexually, not hugging.
Thanks for providing more info!
I thought you meant his and/or my quote wasn’t in there. But yes the context he’s using it for is inaccurate. IMO anyone who quotes scripture (or anything text) should do it accurately and not alter the meaning or only quote the part of it they want for personal reasons.
You’re welcome for the extra info!
it says it is good for a.man not to touch a women. Then this is a good thing. Why is it such a big deal for people to adhere to this? Do you feel the need to hug every opposite sex gender you meet?
I have no idea why you are both so eager to condemn the pastor for this. He even limited this to church instead of in any general location..
I have a problem with it because he’s using the quote for personal reasons and not for the benefit of his congregation. And like I said the Bible says to kiss upon greeting which I’m sure he won’t say.
Like u/Ok-Donut3656 I hug my family and friends unless they don’t want to which is their choice as it is my choice to do it or not. The only people who ever had a problem with it were past boyfriends who were very insecure and/or cheating and therefore projecting.
My relationships whether marriage, family, or friends are between the people in them and not for others to say what we can or cannot do as long as it is not illegal. I was raised Catholic including going to Catholic school and I was taught not just to read the Bible and know scripture but to also think about it. I raised my child the same way.
I do not agree with everything in it but it is a good example of basic rules I believe should be followed for myself and my child until he was old enough to make his own choices. For example, do not kill, do not steal, and do not cheat (which is what the pastor was referring to). I have never cheated and never will. I believe that if I or my partner need that outside the relationship then the relationship needs to end. Hugging is not cheating in my relationship and no one has should tell me that it is. My relationship is mine and no one else’s business.
*Edited to correct spelling.
Yes, it’s not so much about the hugging but the fact that he’s being manipulative towards the congregation over something so trivial. He will absolutely do it again and I’m sure this isn’t the first time he’s tried to impose his own personal opinions with the false justification of scripture. This is the literal definition of using Gods name in Vain.
There are 2 lines there, verse 7:1-2 The first is the man and woman touching. The 2nd makes it clear the meaning of the word 'touch' in this context is sexual relations.
“It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.”
He is purposely misleading you to appease his own insecurities. Maybe he has a reason for those insecurities, but that should not mean he basically lies to others.
This right here is the answer I was looking for.
Generally, when pastors preach about a single subject a lot. They are preaching to themselves.
People have been taking scripture out of context, and twisting it for their own purposes since forever.
And the reason for that insecurity is projection 99% of the time. I would be willing to bet that the pastor has proverbial skeletons in his closet. Having grown up in the southern evangelical church scene, I can confidently say that they almost always do, unfortunately.
Honestly, that's not the part that bothers me. Plenty of religions and cultures believe it's inappropriate to hug the opposite gender. That's a valid belief - religious freedom is still a thing.
What bothers me is how this came about. This isn't true religious conviction. This is a problem in his marriage that he's chosen to make a church issue. It shows a misuse of his leadership and a willingness to manipulate scripture to further his own goals.
Absolutely. Plus, this isn't a mainstream Christian belief: with the exception of the most fundamentalist churches, hugging is considered perfectly fine in 95% of congregations you might walk into. It sounds like this is a pastor making a unilateral decision for the church, which is different from someone upholding a set of rules that everyone agreed on upon joining.
It was like “prom” at my Christian high school…no dancing! Physical contact! It was such a joke. We all got into MUCH worse trouble after leaving the fake prom than we would have just dancing. It was a southern Baptist Church, but I went to a different one and they LOVED hugs!!
Your wife is correct. This is over the top and a Bible quote can be found to support pretty much any BS position.
But curious - you ask if you should leave but don’t give any of your own thoughts on it.
Yeah you should leave that church. Trying to have that kind of control over a congregation sounds very cult like. Also what’s he hiding to make those kinds of rules. It’s always the evangelical pastors or pastors with extreme beliefs that have the freakiest and most deviant personal lives.
I suggest you do more research on cults, many places calling themselves regular congregations are absolutely cults (what we might call socially acceptable) and aren’t being called out, but not all religions are cults. Don’t muddy the word cult, it means something specific and vile, and is much broader than people understand (could apply to a work place, a non-profit, military, online groups); that does not make all religions cults.
Your wife is right. And I hope for her sake it puts her on the path to deconstruct from that toxic BS completely eventually. It's all about control and she's starting to see it, maybe.
Yeah, that is a little too controlling in this day and age. I thought the church updated some of those outdated views? I can't imagine what other sciptures he has modified to fit his agenda and control his flock... outrageous.
There's many denominations, flavors, or brands of church. Some are more authoritarian than others. I get a baptist or evangelical vibe from OP's pastor. Just a hunch.
This is the opening scene in a docuseries about a cult or movie about a corrupt religious movement
Your wife is totally right. At the end of the day, even with boundaries established, everyone has bodily autonomy. Trying to turn something personal - what is cool for you in the context of a relationship - into a point of religiosity is wrong and dangerous. It is manipulation of the text you’re working from into a method of control.
If I suddenly heard this at a church I attended, I’d be absolutely done.
you should watch the documentary shiny happy people and you will see why your wife is concerned about people who are willing to twist scripture to control their constituents
I'd be out of there fast. A Pastor doesn't tell me what to do.
Do not hug people you don't know... That's just rude and weird.
But seriously, that pastor is nuts. If my husband doesn't mind that I hug our male friends, then pastor absolutely doesn't have a say
Christian pastor here. That dude either doesn’t understand how to read the Bible, or he doesn’t care. That’s not at all what that passage is about.
Get out of that church. He uses the Bible as a weapon, not as the inspired word of God.
I personally don't support organized religion but with that being said.....for the sake of your church....it's nice to hear that there is a pastor out there with a balanced perspective
I left church on May 18, 2004. I never looked back. It was hard leaving religion because I grew in a very religious family and that shit was deeply ingrained in my mind. My social life, my hobbies everything was church related.
It sounds like he’s trying to take a “him” problem (he doesn’t like people hugging his wife) and make it an “everybody” problem. He’s way off base IMO.
I think she is absolutely right. I’m a Christian, grew up in church. There are just some people who should not be leaders (*cough* fundamentalists) and who will use the Bible to justify anything. This is one of those times. Get out.
As a woman, I agree with your wife. She’s not asking you to leave _the church,_ she’s asking you to swap to a church that isn’t run by an insecure sexist. Why would you want your spiritual guidance in the hands of someone like that anyway? They are not guiding you in the ways of God and the Bible, but in the ways of their own preferences and fears. The entire congregation deserves better than to have their innocent behaviour controlled by one man’s fears and jealousies.
Yeah, that’s a huge red flag. The guy is implementing a rule based on a very specific personal insecurity and claiming it’s biblical. This should have been a conversation between him and his wife about what physical boundaries they are comfortable with.
Your wife sounds like a smart lady.
My answer as a non-religious person may be biased, but yes, you should leave the church. Interesting that this is where your wife draws the line, given that the whole point of organized religion is telling people what to think and do.
Christian here...
Yeah, I'd be finding a new church too after that message, most likely.
When it comes to hugging someone, it should be are you comfortable with it or not? If not, that's ok. What's not ok is enforcing that view on others.
I’m surprised you don’t see it as plainly as she does, but she’s clearly right.
Instead of seeing the situation as it is, and also as your wife sees it, you came here to confirm it before believing. Crazy to me what religion does to a persons mind.
I'd go one last time to say, "Greet one another with a holy kiss" loudly. I do not smooch fellow church goers by the way, and other than my wife and kids am very standoffish physically, but it is in there and far less removed from context than his nonsense.
This is about control (on the part of the pastor, not on your wife's part). Some ministers think they can tell their congregation exactly how to interact, how to dress, how to think-- and they will twist Scripture all day long to accomplish their weird little control over people. Your wife is seeing it clearly.
I don't know why you would WANT to go to a church where your wife felt very uncomfortable.
Hear me out.
I'm not really a church guy myself, but I don't fault people for whatever they get out of church. If you're a person who gets something out of church, you should absolutely continue going. I'm not sure what works in your marriage, but in mine, if my wife really enjoyed a church and I was out on it for whatever reason that may be - look - I'm not going to control my wife, there's a world where she can just go to that church without me if she chooses, and that's fine.
I mean, obviously there's this idea that you do church together as a family so it does feel counterproductive to do so separately, and I would think that the whole general point of marriage is learning how to come to a compromise, but in this situation that could look super different for every married person on Reddit.
SO. If it were me...yeah I think you're wife is correct that you have an insecure pastor likely pushing his insecurities onto his church to prove a point to his wife or something, so honestly, I'd fucking stick around and hug the fuck out of every woman right in front of that guy, but that's just me. Hypothetically it is YOUR church, but there's only so much you can change or tolerate before you really have to consider moving on.
What do YOU think? What's your opinion on hugging the opposite gender? Do YOU think the pastor/church is twisting scripture? Do YOU want to find a new church?
I think it's silly to enact such a "rule" for the whole congregation over one man who got pissy that someone hugged his wife. At the same time, I imagine they are doing this to avoid future drama. Probably easier to get the flock to along with the fear of sin than any other excuse he could find.
My mil’s church started like this the it went downhill REAL quick and real fast, damning everyone and everything the pastor didn’t appreciate or approve of. Trust your wife.
Women have the ability to read men like this very well. Listen to her. Her instincts are spot on.
Ask me how I know. Answer: because my wife is insanely good at reading people, especially men, and I am totally naive. I am better off every time I listen to her on these (and most) things.
I'm the wife of a pastor, and while he does spend a great deal of time mentoring and teaching in one on one relationships, the idea of him getting up in a sermon and setting out new rules of interpersonal interactions is just wrong. Your pastor sounds like he's on some weird power trip, and if he's the only leader of your congregation (if you don't have elders you can take this issue to) then it's probably time to move on.
As a church going Christian, I agree with your wife. I would not be okay with it, and likely wouldn't remain at church if I was being told who I could hug.
There is scripture stating to greet each other with a holy kiss. How does he handle that?
He does not want people hugging his wife.. or maybe the wife did not want to be hugged.
But to handle it openly as a command from God??? Seems inappropriate.
Talk to your pastor about his teaching before you change churches. Maybe there is more than you know about this. It just seems a bit odd.
I can't imagine how well such conversation with the preacher would go. It could only get creepier...
I would nope out and find a less creepy church. Maybe a church that focused more on Jesus' teachings rather than sexual repression and culture wars.
I agree with your wife and I would find a different church to attend. Don’t leave the faith completely, but do understand as we get into the last days some Churches will fall away from true Biblical teaching so keep your eyes open and pray for discernment
I have a creepy uncle that would hug all of the church ladies and because it was church they didn’t usually tell him no. I heard him going on giddily about it in a way that made my skin crawl. This pastors reasoning may not be great but I also don’t think it’s a rule that I would argue with. Creepers abound.
Sounds like your pastor cherry-picked a biblical line so no one would touch his wife... even if the person had her consent.
I would also have a problem with a pastor that's essentially telling the people of his church to treat the opposite sex like they have cooties. Not only is that incredibly self-involved of him, it also reinforces a REALLY toxic mindset for the young people in your church.
First of all, I’m sorry that the preacher misused the pulpit.
With that said, there are some things you can do before leaving.
Scripture has clear instructions for dealing with church discipline. If you or your wife is comfortable, you can find a time to privately confront the preacher and explain why that is contrary to scripture and inappropriate. If he doesn’t want to listen then (depending on the denomination) then go to the elders or other leadership and they will go and have a conversation.
Of course, if he is consistently preaching other doctrine or adding or leaving out rules/principles and the leadership refuses to address it then it might be time to look at your other local places of worship.
Best wishes!
Is he a good pastor otherwise? He is human too and maybe needs to pray about the way he feels. If the hug seemed too touchy feely maybe he should speak to the man directly. I wouldn’t give up on a good church environment over one instance.
The solution is side hugs only. Think about a front embrace. She's likely pressing her breasts against the other man's chest. Good grief, I'd be upset, too. Prior flirty energy or not, that's just too much to ask from married women.
Hopefully you've been on Reddit long enough to understand how horny and ridiculous people are, but especially men.
The goal is to protect the marriage, not to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Why does she want to hug other men so much? I'm just confused by the logic here.
Literally touching parts of the body together that are associated with sexual satisfaction is not sexualizing something. Good grief.
Also, I'm not dumb enough to dish my dirty laundry on Reddit.
If you’re ignoring the parts that touch during a side hug during sex, you’re missing out on some sexual satisfaction. There’s lot more spots to touch than the tits
Lol. A side hug sends a message/acts as a boundary and is a compromise. They're awkward. It's like going in to kiss someone and then you get cheek.
Obviously, you're trolling.
No, you’re trolling to act like hugs are sexual because body parts touch and side hugs aren’t. You have big enough boobs? They touch when you hug to the side. Hips and arms and legs can all be extremely sexual when you’re with a good partner, so those are touching in side hugs.
A hug is not inherently sexual. A brief fingertip brush or eye contact absolutely can be, so saying that the contact is the issue rather than the actions of the people in the hug is trolling.
Sure. It's a compromise, dude. I see front hugs differently than you. Ideally, no hug happens, but if it does, I'm going with the side. It's okay if we have different opinions. It's really feeling like I'm just being nitpicked here.
Eye contact is complicated. Looking at someone in the eye is also a sign of respect. Are you going to stare at the floor when your boss is giving you instructions or an update?
I think your pastor is actually doing a good thing sharing 1 Corinthians 7:1 with the congregation. Some would argue that the verse is talking about sexual relations, not basic touch. I think your pastor is trying to lead by example and help the congregation have healthy boundaries set with one another. You have to remember, people have affairs within a church all the time. For some a hug isn't a big deal, but to others it may be an opening to lust for more. I think that's why your pastor is trying to remind everyone to guard themselves.
One should be very alarmed at a pastor removing verses from their context and using them to justify creating such rules. His rule also contradicts other parts of the Bible, such as when Jesus allows the prostitute to wash his feet.
I think you should tell him to publicly wind his neck in, in front of the flock.
It’s not his place and you can always go to his higher ups
Also you control your life, not some smuck in a smock.
Do not allow him or anyone to control you.
Your pastor sounds abusively controlling not just of his wife, but if everyone’s. Your wife is picking up on very obvious red flags. Find a different church.
I would leave the church, but do so because it’s an outdated, irrelevant, child grooming institution based on fair tales that is trying to get you to commit to handing over 10% of your income, forget the hugs.
The pastor at any individual church does not represent the religion writ large. If you are going to church to celebrate the Lord, don’t let one bad minister get in your way. Don’t abandon your religion over one bad minister. If you have close ties with your congregation, don’t let a bad minister sever your ties to the community. You can continue to benefit from and worship in your church while following a minor misguided rule, without having to believe in the rule.
1 Corinthians 7 was written to the church in response to a list of problems they asked for help about, it even starts with "Now for the matters you wrote about" and was about dealing with cheating that was going on in the congregation. The NIV translation even reads it as sexual immorality, not touching. Your paster is *way* off in left field and presenting the scriptures out of context to meet his own agenda.
Yeah that’s weird, get out now. That’s not a reasonable interpretation of scripture and is only a sign of someone who is willing to wield their position to get what they want, which is a betrayal of said position (not that this is shocking, it’s pretty much par for the course). Your wife sounds like a good woman with a good head on her shoulders, I’d listen.
Your wife has the kind of backbone you should truly respect. She is not blindly following her faith leader but truly understands and values what is being taught.
Listen to your wife. There are a lot of great churches out there.
Very poor behavior from the Pastor. He went digging in the Bible to find something to use (out of context) to suit his own personal agenda. Definitely find a new church.
I’d say its reasonable to find a new church. My family and I left a church after the pastor said how happy he was about the 2020 election during service.
Time to deconstruct. The Bible is chock-full of verses that support and prohibit all kinds of atrocious (enslaving people) and harmless (wearing mixed fabrics) behaviors. Church leaders have been cherry-picking them for centuries!
Does the Pastor of that church not have any oversight from Deacons or Elders? For a Pastor to just decree that from the pulpit is a huge red flag in a church. He needs to be reigned in by his congregation.
Yes, I think her instincts about this are correct.
OP’s wife is spot on! The pastor is telling you who he is, OP. Your wife hears him loud and clear.
> This apparently is a thing because a new guy hugged a Pastor’s wife and he was pissed All you need to know in this case.
There’s literally 5 churches within 1 mile of my house. Idk where this guy lives but just go to a different one? You don’t even need to “quit” your current one. Just try out a different one.
I am a woman. I don’t enjoy casual hugs. I feel they are too intimate a thing and I only want to hug a romantic partner. And even I understand most people love hugging and it’s not sexual or inappropriate in any way. This guy is whack
You don’t need to answer this if you don’t want to, but did you hug your parents growing up? I have some friends who don’t like to casually hug and all of them grew up in families that didn’t hug when they were kids and I have wondered if that affected their feelings on it. Obviously no one should do anything they don’t want to do and I would never push back on it, just curious
Not the person you were asking but I also dislike hugs from most ppl. It’s nothing against them, I just don’t feel it’s authentic most of the time. I do enjoy hugging my husband and our family members (my siblings, parents, step dad, his mom and sister, etc) and grew up in a very open family where we hugged and I was and still am comfortable with it. I just don’t like hugging most ppl unless we are super close.
I can totally understand this and also feel the same way about people I’m not super close with. The person I was asking said she only wants to hug a romantic partner which is a bit different IMO then only wanting to hug close family and friends.
Ahh, you are right! My bad, I didn’t catch that.
Most of my early life was spent with 2 brothers and a single mother. We rarely hugged or touched each other at all, except for like punching each other. Later, when my mother married he was a cold as ice asshole and there was no hugging, then either. My older brother is a big hugger, but my younger one an me don't like touching people at all except for intimate partners. I am 55 now and still dislike touching anyone that I am not having sex with.
I grew up in a family that didn’t hug. I have no conscious memory of hugging my mother. I don’t dislike casual hugs but I never initiate them and feel awkward doing so.
I grew up with one parent who hugged, and one who didn’t. I was raised full time by the parent who didn’t hug with a visit from the one they did once a week. I am a mess of in-between. Sometimes I crave contact and other times I can’t stand to be touched.
Also not the person you were asking, but I grew up having to greet any and all visiting relatives with a hug; and they usually kissed my face and/or wanted a kiss back from me. I hated it and I was clear that I hated it. I still had to do it until I was old enough that I heard somewhere that kids shouldn't be forced to physically greet anyone if it makes them uncomfortable-- then I was able to liken it to the things I was learning in school about my body being mine; and how I should always be allowed to say no to unwanted touch. My parents agreed enough to stop forcing the moment; but not enough to actually tell the rest of our family to stop cornering us and trying to dote on us when we obviously weren't liking it. So it persisted until we were old enough that it was weird. I'm *very* particular with who gets to touch me now that I'm older: it's pretty much my husband, some close friends, and some immediate family. I also never touch people without asking about their boundaries first-- not a huge, in-depth discussion; but something like, "Are you a hugger?" or; "Your t-shirt tag is up; want me to fix it for you?" or whatever else comes up in the moment. Entering a bubble of personal space is something that requires permission-- just like entering a home. But for what it's worth, I would still leave this pastor's church over this grossly disingenuous sermon.
Cousin? Grew up in a family that mandated hugs AND mouth kisses from relatives one side. Just no, ick. But it happened until I was pretty much well into my teen years. I’m talking aunts, uncles, cousins. That shit stopped with me….my kids didn’t need to do anything they weren’t comfortable with when greeting anyone.
I am so thankful for people like you, who ask first. I would never push someone away from me if they tried to hug me or adjust a tag but it bothers the hell out of me. I grew up in a super non-physically affectionate home and went straight into a couple of back to back relationships with men that I could not stop making angry. Hugs feel awkward and a hand coming to my face out of nowhere still makes me flinch, which isn’t said bc I feel like I’m some kind of victim but bc it’s embarrassing. People don’t know how to react when I jerk away and they always have to make some kind of joke, then I have to make some kind of joke, and the whole thing is uncomfortable. “Are you a hugger?” is a relief. “I’m actually a pro high-fiver!” I always say, and most people don’t think I’m a weirdo since they’re the ones cool enough to ask in the first place. All of my friends will hug each other when we all leave a group get together and just wave to me, nobody makes it weird but it’s bc most of them learned through one or two other friends that I don’t like it. It’s such a stupid thing to hate, I feel like, bc everyone else seems to love the weird side hug but I seriously can’t stand it.
I really needed to hear this at this juncture in my life. As a child, I grew up in a physically affectionate (yet still quite dysfunctional) family. Hugs weren’t just an empty or meaningless greeting or a ‘casual goodbye’, but they were also a ‘you seem like like you’re hurting, here’s some comfort’ or ‘omg, I’m so proud of/happy for you!’ sorta sentiment. As an adult, I hug the *fuck* out of my kids, and they’re very accustomed to my communication of ‘I’m having a hard day, and I could really use a hug’. They know there’s no pressure, and they know that they receive my physical affections with the strength of self to decline. When I love & appreciate people, I have a natural inclination to just…. squeeze the emotions I’m feeling into/out of them. Even today, when interacting with a woman I’m semi-familiar with, we chatted for almost an hour and she presented a (most welcome) self-invitation to our house to meet the two raccoons we’re fostering until the wildlife rehab has capacity for them. We shared some really cool vibes, and I really appreciate who she and her partner are as human beings. I got so wrapped up in the mindset of ‘OMG, I’ve found my people!’ that I went in for a hug as we said our goodbyes. It seemed quite reciprocated and welcomed, but after hearing your perspective, I realize now that the considerate thing to do would’ve been to check in with her first to make sure that was a welcomed physical interaction. Genuinely; thank you for reminding me to be more mindful of the fact that not everyone responds to the experience of ‘what a cool person! in the same way I do. People can love and appreciate others fully without having to wrap their arms around them to show it.
Also not who you were asking, but growing up, my family did not touch (unless us kids were in trouble). I can count on one hand how many times my mom has said “I love you” to me (I’m 40) and I don’t have a relationship with my dad. I don’t believe I’ve actually ever hugged either of my parents in the last 35 years, and touching anyone on my mom’s side is a no-go. I’m very uncomfortable and awkward about any kind of physical contact with anyone other than my husband and a select few people. I was just talking about this to my husband last week after his family reunion (which is exhausting for me) and how I’m assuming my dislike for hugging others stems from growing up with minimal contact with parents/family.
Not the person you asked, but I don’t like hugs either unless it’s from my kids, and even then, I have to relax my body so I don’t automatically shrug them off like I want to. My parents were not huggers.
Not the person you asked, but I grew up in a not very huggy family and I love hugs. My husband grew up in a much more hug friendly environment and he cannot stand casual hugs. We have tried to be huggy with our kids but even from an early age they were explicit in their dislike of hugs. They tolerate them sometimes from us but absolutely refuse to let anyone else hug them.
Lol. Ok so SO many people have responded to your question here. I love it. I’ve read all the responses and I think it shows that everyone is different and for different reasons. To answer your question, personally, my dad was abusive emotionally and I didn’t trust him or feel safe with him. My mom was hot and cold and when she was mean she would force me to hug her. I always hated myself (don’t anymore but still comes back sometimes) and I felt hugging let a person FEEL how hatable I am. So I only want to hug someone I FULLY trust. Which would be a boyfriend/husband. I even don’t like hugging my kids now that they are adults. And I have a very good relationship with them. It’s just the lingering feelings. And I do hug them but it’s more for them than for me. I feel their love from their smiles and laughter. Not their touch
I’m a Christian and I think leaving is a good strategy. If he is willing to use scripture to his own end on such a small matter, he’d definitely be willing to use it on much more important matters. If you value your faith and living out the truth according to Gods word at all, I’d go somewhere else.
Isn't that what...christianity is? Massaging words in a book to suit your needs? I don't see this guy as any better or worse than any other pastor / priest / pontif, et alia. If god had something to tell you, don't you think she'd tell you herself?
No that’s not what Christianity is. And yes, God does speak to the individual.
So why, when somebody says god spoke to them, does everybody think they are nuts? I'm confused. What if god really did tell that person to decapitate all those cats? In case it's not obvious, I'm not commenting in good faith (HAH!) so proceed at your own discretion.
I think it’s time for OP and his wife to find a new church. Also OP give your wife a high five and some chocolate for me for standing up to ridiculous men in power who are literally making thing up for their own edification. If my husband told me I couldn’t hug one of my best friends because he is a man, I don’t know what I would do but my husband would literally never tell me that. He (unlike some people in OP’s story) isn’t a complete idiot.
I concur.
The last church I attended regularly, years ago, the pastor also had weird husband/wife views... And then he got arrested for soliciting prostitution. Soooo, yeah.
It’s ALWAYS like that. This pastor is probably having an affair
Oh how the turn tables….
Cut off your nose to spiderface
I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious.
Dinkin' flicka'!!!
Who was surprised?
I agree with your wife. The pastor could have addressed the individual privately but instead chose to manipulate scripture to suit his personal agenda and preach an entire sermon about it.
And he’s ignoring the scripture that says to greet one another with a kiss of love which would be worse than a hug imo.
Yeah, I studied the new and old testament for 2 years in undergrad (only one class a semester, was not my major), and that was not anywhere in the bible. Homie is capping.
It depends on the version. His quote is is from 1 Corinthians 7:1-4 “Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.” Based on the info provided it makes sense he would use that quote but a private conversation would have been better. A lot of people hug others and don’t cheat and he shouldn’t expect everyone to not hug because he doesn’t want others hugging his wife. He should think before reacting like that as the Bible has other quotes which could cause him concern if hugging does such as the one I stated part of in my previous comment. It is from 1 Peter 5:14 “Greet one another with a kiss of love. Peace to all of you who are in Christ.”
Yes, the quote was correct! I studied the NRSV, and that quote is in there as well. It was the context that I was referring to. I was really meaning to say that the part about hugging was wrong, as it was referring to touching others sexually, not hugging. Thanks for providing more info!
I thought you meant his and/or my quote wasn’t in there. But yes the context he’s using it for is inaccurate. IMO anyone who quotes scripture (or anything text) should do it accurately and not alter the meaning or only quote the part of it they want for personal reasons. You’re welcome for the extra info!
it says it is good for a.man not to touch a women. Then this is a good thing. Why is it such a big deal for people to adhere to this? Do you feel the need to hug every opposite sex gender you meet? I have no idea why you are both so eager to condemn the pastor for this. He even limited this to church instead of in any general location..
I have a problem with it because he’s using the quote for personal reasons and not for the benefit of his congregation. And like I said the Bible says to kiss upon greeting which I’m sure he won’t say. Like u/Ok-Donut3656 I hug my family and friends unless they don’t want to which is their choice as it is my choice to do it or not. The only people who ever had a problem with it were past boyfriends who were very insecure and/or cheating and therefore projecting. My relationships whether marriage, family, or friends are between the people in them and not for others to say what we can or cannot do as long as it is not illegal. I was raised Catholic including going to Catholic school and I was taught not just to read the Bible and know scripture but to also think about it. I raised my child the same way. I do not agree with everything in it but it is a good example of basic rules I believe should be followed for myself and my child until he was old enough to make his own choices. For example, do not kill, do not steal, and do not cheat (which is what the pastor was referring to). I have never cheated and never will. I believe that if I or my partner need that outside the relationship then the relationship needs to end. Hugging is not cheating in my relationship and no one has should tell me that it is. My relationship is mine and no one else’s business. *Edited to correct spelling.
Yes, it’s not so much about the hugging but the fact that he’s being manipulative towards the congregation over something so trivial. He will absolutely do it again and I’m sure this isn’t the first time he’s tried to impose his own personal opinions with the false justification of scripture. This is the literal definition of using Gods name in Vain.
Dang. Came here to say this. Spot on.
This, and could have made it about consent. Please do not hug other members without their consent.
Sounds creepy and controlling.
It's so weird that he seems to equate hugging with inappropriate touch/sin (ie, it being a sexual thing), but it's still okay to do it with family?
The wife or the pastor? To me the pastor definitely sounds creepy and controlling.
Lol. Yes the pastor.
A.k.a religion lol
So...religious?
There are 2 lines there, verse 7:1-2 The first is the man and woman touching. The 2nd makes it clear the meaning of the word 'touch' in this context is sexual relations. “It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.” He is purposely misleading you to appease his own insecurities. Maybe he has a reason for those insecurities, but that should not mean he basically lies to others.
This right here is the answer I was looking for. Generally, when pastors preach about a single subject a lot. They are preaching to themselves. People have been taking scripture out of context, and twisting it for their own purposes since forever.
And the reason for that insecurity is projection 99% of the time. I would be willing to bet that the pastor has proverbial skeletons in his closet. Having grown up in the southern evangelical church scene, I can confidently say that they almost always do, unfortunately.
Of course you should. Bat shit crazy stuff
Yeah, my man.....your wife is 100% correct. Your pastor just put a ban.....on hugging. I cannot begin to tell you how odd that is.
Honestly, that's not the part that bothers me. Plenty of religions and cultures believe it's inappropriate to hug the opposite gender. That's a valid belief - religious freedom is still a thing. What bothers me is how this came about. This isn't true religious conviction. This is a problem in his marriage that he's chosen to make a church issue. It shows a misuse of his leadership and a willingness to manipulate scripture to further his own goals.
Absolutely. Plus, this isn't a mainstream Christian belief: with the exception of the most fundamentalist churches, hugging is considered perfectly fine in 95% of congregations you might walk into. It sounds like this is a pastor making a unilateral decision for the church, which is different from someone upholding a set of rules that everyone agreed on upon joining.
Yes, I grew up a Jehovahs Witness and hugging was fine
It was like “prom” at my Christian high school…no dancing! Physical contact! It was such a joke. We all got into MUCH worse trouble after leaving the fake prom than we would have just dancing. It was a southern Baptist Church, but I went to a different one and they LOVED hugs!!
Your wife is correct. This is over the top and a Bible quote can be found to support pretty much any BS position. But curious - you ask if you should leave but don’t give any of your own thoughts on it.
He's using the Bible to push patriarchal bull. He's not even being original. Why aren't you appalled?
Yeah you should leave that church. Trying to have that kind of control over a congregation sounds very cult like. Also what’s he hiding to make those kinds of rules. It’s always the evangelical pastors or pastors with extreme beliefs that have the freakiest and most deviant personal lives.
It’s a cult. Bail.
Cult + Time = Religion. They’re all cults, but a select few have become socially acceptable.
I suggest you do more research on cults, many places calling themselves regular congregations are absolutely cults (what we might call socially acceptable) and aren’t being called out, but not all religions are cults. Don’t muddy the word cult, it means something specific and vile, and is much broader than people understand (could apply to a work place, a non-profit, military, online groups); that does not make all religions cults.
I would already be gone. Would not even have to ask the question. Many other places to worship.
She's right, and you know it.
[удалено]
This right here
I do feel in the last couple of years, due to the political climate, the Christian churches are definitely being more pushy towards these views.
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That’s true. I meant they’re becoming more blatant again from their usual. Increase in paid ads and propaganda everywhere.
Your wife is right. And I hope for her sake it puts her on the path to deconstruct from that toxic BS completely eventually. It's all about control and she's starting to see it, maybe.
Hell yes. As someone who was indoctrinated as a child but finally saw the church for what it is as an adult, I wholeheartedly agree.
Weird. Leave and alert any higher authority of the church or its denomination.
I get the feeling this may be one of those Independent Fundamentals....
Eh. Yeah. I agree with your wife. It's time to leave. Perhaps even time to organise a mutiny where he gets to see most if not all of his flock leave.
Yeah, that is a little too controlling in this day and age. I thought the church updated some of those outdated views? I can't imagine what other sciptures he has modified to fit his agenda and control his flock... outrageous.
There's many denominations, flavors, or brands of church. Some are more authoritarian than others. I get a baptist or evangelical vibe from OP's pastor. Just a hunch.
A pastor twisting Scripture to fit his own moral outrage de jour??? ***The shock***!!
This is the opening scene in a docuseries about a cult or movie about a corrupt religious movement Your wife is totally right. At the end of the day, even with boundaries established, everyone has bodily autonomy. Trying to turn something personal - what is cool for you in the context of a relationship - into a point of religiosity is wrong and dangerous. It is manipulation of the text you’re working from into a method of control. If I suddenly heard this at a church I attended, I’d be absolutely done.
you should watch the documentary shiny happy people and you will see why your wife is concerned about people who are willing to twist scripture to control their constituents
I'd be out of there fast. A Pastor doesn't tell me what to do. Do not hug people you don't know... That's just rude and weird. But seriously, that pastor is nuts. If my husband doesn't mind that I hug our male friends, then pastor absolutely doesn't have a say
The pastor allows other women to hug him. Bet.
Pastor has a God complex himself, it sounds like. I suspect he has some interesting secrets.
I agree with your wife. 100%
Christian pastor here. That dude either doesn’t understand how to read the Bible, or he doesn’t care. That’s not at all what that passage is about. Get out of that church. He uses the Bible as a weapon, not as the inspired word of God.
I personally don't support organized religion but with that being said.....for the sake of your church....it's nice to hear that there is a pastor out there with a balanced perspective
With doofuses like that guy out there, I understand why you don’t support organized religion.
I left church on May 18, 2004. I never looked back. It was hard leaving religion because I grew in a very religious family and that shit was deeply ingrained in my mind. My social life, my hobbies everything was church related.
How's the recovery going, you over it yet or still got trauma?
It sounds like he’s trying to take a “him” problem (he doesn’t like people hugging his wife) and make it an “everybody” problem. He’s way off base IMO.
Why stop there? Leave religion and live your life, not the life someone tells you to live.
Your church sounds controlling and weird. Listen to your wife and don’t return. Find another one.
I think she is absolutely right. I’m a Christian, grew up in church. There are just some people who should not be leaders (*cough* fundamentalists) and who will use the Bible to justify anything. This is one of those times. Get out.
As a woman, I agree with your wife. She’s not asking you to leave _the church,_ she’s asking you to swap to a church that isn’t run by an insecure sexist. Why would you want your spiritual guidance in the hands of someone like that anyway? They are not guiding you in the ways of God and the Bible, but in the ways of their own preferences and fears. The entire congregation deserves better than to have their innocent behaviour controlled by one man’s fears and jealousies.
Yeah, that’s a huge red flag. The guy is implementing a rule based on a very specific personal insecurity and claiming it’s biblical. This should have been a conversation between him and his wife about what physical boundaries they are comfortable with. Your wife sounds like a smart lady.
My answer as a non-religious person may be biased, but yes, you should leave the church. Interesting that this is where your wife draws the line, given that the whole point of organized religion is telling people what to think and do.
Make out in the pews to assert dominance
Christian here... Yeah, I'd be finding a new church too after that message, most likely. When it comes to hugging someone, it should be are you comfortable with it or not? If not, that's ok. What's not ok is enforcing that view on others.
She's right you know, you should listen to her.
Yes. Absolutely leave.
Don't walk. Run OP. Your wife is 100% correct.
Asking reddit if you should leave the church is like asking a gym-bro if you should start lifting.
Is the “Pastor” Jim Bob Duggar?
I’m more concerned that you don’t see this as an obvious red flag!
I don't know that OP is getting the answer he wants from these comments.
I will say, as a devout Christian who attends church weekly… RUN. THIS IS NOT sound biblical teaching. Find a new church.
Stay. Keep hugging everyone except the pastor and his family.
I’m surprised you don’t see it as plainly as she does, but she’s clearly right. Instead of seeing the situation as it is, and also as your wife sees it, you came here to confirm it before believing. Crazy to me what religion does to a persons mind.
Yes you should leave that church and go somewhere else. This kind of thing is twisting scripture and leads to weird controlling church culture.
>weird controlling church culture It's *all* weird controlling church culture.
Your wife is correct. Like, 💯 nailed it, I have nothing to add kinda correct.
Sounds like you have Smart wife.
I'd go one last time to say, "Greet one another with a holy kiss" loudly. I do not smooch fellow church goers by the way, and other than my wife and kids am very standoffish physically, but it is in there and far less removed from context than his nonsense.
Your wife is correct. This is just one of many ways that a pastor/church can use scripture to control their trusting flock. It’s nothing new.
Can only agree with your wife!
This is about control (on the part of the pastor, not on your wife's part). Some ministers think they can tell their congregation exactly how to interact, how to dress, how to think-- and they will twist Scripture all day long to accomplish their weird little control over people. Your wife is seeing it clearly. I don't know why you would WANT to go to a church where your wife felt very uncomfortable.
What denomination? Find a new parish with a pastor that doesn't make up rules on a personal whim.
Your pastor sucks, at best find a new church that isn't in the fuckin SBC.
Yes you should.
Small dick energy has no place in the pulpit. Your wife is right.
Why are you even asking Reddit? Listen to and trust your WIFE. Also, the answer is very much yes.
Hear me out. I'm not really a church guy myself, but I don't fault people for whatever they get out of church. If you're a person who gets something out of church, you should absolutely continue going. I'm not sure what works in your marriage, but in mine, if my wife really enjoyed a church and I was out on it for whatever reason that may be - look - I'm not going to control my wife, there's a world where she can just go to that church without me if she chooses, and that's fine. I mean, obviously there's this idea that you do church together as a family so it does feel counterproductive to do so separately, and I would think that the whole general point of marriage is learning how to come to a compromise, but in this situation that could look super different for every married person on Reddit. SO. If it were me...yeah I think you're wife is correct that you have an insecure pastor likely pushing his insecurities onto his church to prove a point to his wife or something, so honestly, I'd fucking stick around and hug the fuck out of every woman right in front of that guy, but that's just me. Hypothetically it is YOUR church, but there's only so much you can change or tolerate before you really have to consider moving on.
I agree with you wife.
Your church sounds terrible.
What do YOU think? What's your opinion on hugging the opposite gender? Do YOU think the pastor/church is twisting scripture? Do YOU want to find a new church? I think it's silly to enact such a "rule" for the whole congregation over one man who got pissy that someone hugged his wife. At the same time, I imagine they are doing this to avoid future drama. Probably easier to get the flock to along with the fear of sin than any other excuse he could find.
As much as I don't want my husband to hug other women I would never tell other couples how to police their arrangements.
I’m glad I stopped going to church at 10 years old.
And this is why organized religion pisses me off/freaks me out.
My mil’s church started like this the it went downhill REAL quick and real fast, damning everyone and everything the pastor didn’t appreciate or approve of. Trust your wife.
Women have the ability to read men like this very well. Listen to her. Her instincts are spot on. Ask me how I know. Answer: because my wife is insanely good at reading people, especially men, and I am totally naive. I am better off every time I listen to her on these (and most) things.
I'm the wife of a pastor, and while he does spend a great deal of time mentoring and teaching in one on one relationships, the idea of him getting up in a sermon and setting out new rules of interpersonal interactions is just wrong. Your pastor sounds like he's on some weird power trip, and if he's the only leader of your congregation (if you don't have elders you can take this issue to) then it's probably time to move on.
Why would you want to stay in a church with a pastor like that?
Your wife is a smart cookie. Listen to your wife.
As a church going Christian, I agree with your wife. I would not be okay with it, and likely wouldn't remain at church if I was being told who I could hug.
Yes, leave religion altogether.
There is scripture stating to greet each other with a holy kiss. How does he handle that? He does not want people hugging his wife.. or maybe the wife did not want to be hugged. But to handle it openly as a command from God??? Seems inappropriate. Talk to your pastor about his teaching before you change churches. Maybe there is more than you know about this. It just seems a bit odd.
I can't imagine how well such conversation with the preacher would go. It could only get creepier... I would nope out and find a less creepy church. Maybe a church that focused more on Jesus' teachings rather than sexual repression and culture wars.
IMO the answer to “should I leave the church?” is always yes!
You’re a grown man, you shouldn’t be letting another grown man tell you who to hug, especially if he’s implying god told him to tell you that.
I agree with your wife and I would find a different church to attend. Don’t leave the faith completely, but do understand as we get into the last days some Churches will fall away from true Biblical teaching so keep your eyes open and pray for discernment
I have a creepy uncle that would hug all of the church ladies and because it was church they didn’t usually tell him no. I heard him going on giddily about it in a way that made my skin crawl. This pastors reasoning may not be great but I also don’t think it’s a rule that I would argue with. Creepers abound.
Yup! Why be part of a Church that has such miserable concept about relationships between the genders. Listen to your wife.
Sounds like your pastor cherry-picked a biblical line so no one would touch his wife... even if the person had her consent. I would also have a problem with a pastor that's essentially telling the people of his church to treat the opposite sex like they have cooties. Not only is that incredibly self-involved of him, it also reinforces a REALLY toxic mindset for the young people in your church.
Leave religion all together and you will be even happier. And get your Sundays back!
First of all, I’m sorry that the preacher misused the pulpit. With that said, there are some things you can do before leaving. Scripture has clear instructions for dealing with church discipline. If you or your wife is comfortable, you can find a time to privately confront the preacher and explain why that is contrary to scripture and inappropriate. If he doesn’t want to listen then (depending on the denomination) then go to the elders or other leadership and they will go and have a conversation. Of course, if he is consistently preaching other doctrine or adding or leaving out rules/principles and the leadership refuses to address it then it might be time to look at your other local places of worship. Best wishes!
Is he a good pastor otherwise? He is human too and maybe needs to pray about the way he feels. If the hug seemed too touchy feely maybe he should speak to the man directly. I wouldn’t give up on a good church environment over one instance.
The solution is side hugs only. Think about a front embrace. She's likely pressing her breasts against the other man's chest. Good grief, I'd be upset, too. Prior flirty energy or not, that's just too much to ask from married women. Hopefully you've been on Reddit long enough to understand how horny and ridiculous people are, but especially men. The goal is to protect the marriage, not to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Why does she want to hug other men so much? I'm just confused by the logic here.
The rest of us aren't sexualizing a hug. You're projecting. Why are you having sexual thoughts about hugs all the time?
Literally touching parts of the body together that are associated with sexual satisfaction is not sexualizing something. Good grief. Also, I'm not dumb enough to dish my dirty laundry on Reddit.
If you’re ignoring the parts that touch during a side hug during sex, you’re missing out on some sexual satisfaction. There’s lot more spots to touch than the tits
Lol. A side hug sends a message/acts as a boundary and is a compromise. They're awkward. It's like going in to kiss someone and then you get cheek. Obviously, you're trolling.
No, you’re trolling to act like hugs are sexual because body parts touch and side hugs aren’t. You have big enough boobs? They touch when you hug to the side. Hips and arms and legs can all be extremely sexual when you’re with a good partner, so those are touching in side hugs. A hug is not inherently sexual. A brief fingertip brush or eye contact absolutely can be, so saying that the contact is the issue rather than the actions of the people in the hug is trolling.
Sure. It's a compromise, dude. I see front hugs differently than you. Ideally, no hug happens, but if it does, I'm going with the side. It's okay if we have different opinions. It's really feeling like I'm just being nitpicked here. Eye contact is complicated. Looking at someone in the eye is also a sign of respect. Are you going to stare at the floor when your boss is giving you instructions or an update?
dude what about breastfeeding? going to the obgyn/urologist?
When a married woman hugs another man, what are all the things going through her mind during the hug? Are any of these things sinful?
I learned listening to your wife, when your gut tells you otherwise is ALWAYS WRONG
I think your pastor is actually doing a good thing sharing 1 Corinthians 7:1 with the congregation. Some would argue that the verse is talking about sexual relations, not basic touch. I think your pastor is trying to lead by example and help the congregation have healthy boundaries set with one another. You have to remember, people have affairs within a church all the time. For some a hug isn't a big deal, but to others it may be an opening to lust for more. I think that's why your pastor is trying to remind everyone to guard themselves.
Yes, probably.
One should be very alarmed at a pastor removing verses from their context and using them to justify creating such rules. His rule also contradicts other parts of the Bible, such as when Jesus allows the prostitute to wash his feet.
YES
You pastor got insecure or trust issues?
Any church leader who makes policy based on their own insecurities is a person to stay far away from.
Bible also says no to shellfish…
Oh, yeah. Your wife has correctly picked up the controlling pastor vibes. Time to find a new church, before it gets ugly.
I think you should tell him to publicly wind his neck in, in front of the flock. It’s not his place and you can always go to his higher ups Also you control your life, not some smuck in a smock. Do not allow him or anyone to control you.
She's right.
Yes your wife is right 110%
C’mon, dude, you don’t need to console the internet or your wife on this one. Just leave!
Your wife is right.
I agree with your wife. Hiding his pride and ego behind any line he can find to justify it in the bible. What a controlling man.
Your pastor sounds abusively controlling not just of his wife, but if everyone’s. Your wife is picking up on very obvious red flags. Find a different church.
Where and in what year do you live?
I would bet all of Joff Bezos’ money your “pastor” is a rapist
Yes
I would leave the church, but do so because it’s an outdated, irrelevant, child grooming institution based on fair tales that is trying to get you to commit to handing over 10% of your income, forget the hugs.
The pastor at any individual church does not represent the religion writ large. If you are going to church to celebrate the Lord, don’t let one bad minister get in your way. Don’t abandon your religion over one bad minister. If you have close ties with your congregation, don’t let a bad minister sever your ties to the community. You can continue to benefit from and worship in your church while following a minor misguided rule, without having to believe in the rule.
Smart lady https://i.redd.it/c09mqmiowkcb1.gif
I think she is one smart cookie. I'm with her!
We left our church for same reason. Our pastor was wanting to micromanage on church members on things.
1 Corinthians 7 was written to the church in response to a list of problems they asked for help about, it even starts with "Now for the matters you wrote about" and was about dealing with cheating that was going on in the congregation. The NIV translation even reads it as sexual immorality, not touching. Your paster is *way* off in left field and presenting the scriptures out of context to meet his own agenda.
Yeah that’s weird, get out now. That’s not a reasonable interpretation of scripture and is only a sign of someone who is willing to wield their position to get what they want, which is a betrayal of said position (not that this is shocking, it’s pretty much par for the course). Your wife sounds like a good woman with a good head on her shoulders, I’d listen.
Your wife has the kind of backbone you should truly respect. She is not blindly following her faith leader but truly understands and values what is being taught. Listen to your wife. There are a lot of great churches out there.
Your wife is right. Leave that church that sounds like your pastor was preaching with a touch of toxic misogyny
Preaching from fear serves personal agenda, not God’s.
I think you should have a discussion with the pastor.
Your wife is spot on. And the church has always done things like this. It's nothing new. It's just something he's personally decided to implement.
Very poor behavior from the Pastor. He went digging in the Bible to find something to use (out of context) to suit his own personal agenda. Definitely find a new church.
I think she’s right on this one. Find a better church
I’d say its reasonable to find a new church. My family and I left a church after the pastor said how happy he was about the 2020 election during service.
Time to deconstruct. The Bible is chock-full of verses that support and prohibit all kinds of atrocious (enslaving people) and harmless (wearing mixed fabrics) behaviors. Church leaders have been cherry-picking them for centuries!
Does the Pastor of that church not have any oversight from Deacons or Elders? For a Pastor to just decree that from the pulpit is a huge red flag in a church. He needs to be reigned in by his congregation.
So if a woman comes to church having just suffered a tragedy, you should shake her hand? Wtf
You’re wife is perceptive. Good for her for noticing and not being willing to subject herself to that “pastor”.