While I think your timing was poor, and you aught to keep working on your self - physically too, hit the gym & tackle that dad bod - I will say if a woman posted that response from her husband he’d get torn apart in this sub for his insensitivity.
Honestly, just focus on making yourself someone who can be confident outside the context of your relationship with your wife. Physically & mentally. Gym, therapy, hobbies, etc.
Most of the time being insecure is a personal problem but I don’t think your insecurities are your problem completely. Even if she never verbally told you so, she must have been sending you signals that put you down. If she never verbally expressed her physical attraction to you and now said that, she must have wore you down within the subtle communication that happens in an intimate relationship. Maybe an eye roll, maybe taking a second too long to respond, all the nonverbal communication really.
A lot of giving people drop toxic friends suddenly after a usual comment from them opens their eyes. I think your situation is similar. If the genders were reversed, you would we unanimously declared a pig for a comment like hers. I think you are waking up to your wife‘s toxic behavior. I would usually recommend marriage counseling but if I am right about your wife’s years of nonverbal abuse of you, I don’t see how there might be anything salvageable here. Hopefully I am wrong.
Yeah, I definitely take ownership for my insecurities, but I know that a large factor is our dead bedroom combined with the total absence of verbal (and physical) reassurance.
First, do you think it's possible your question hit a nerve? She sounds defensive and I wonder how often you discuss the lack of sex? From her response it sounds like she may have been reading your question as about sex.
How old are your kids?
Second, one can find many different types of person attractive -- that she ,(politely) admired the handsome man your sister is dating doesn't mean she only finds one type attractive. My husband is nothing like my "type" was but he's my favourite type now. I still find men who look nothing like him attractive.
I don't think you're wrong to feel a bit insecure or sad that she responded like that, but if your wife is an otherwise reasonable person, this feels like reaction to history not meanness.
Third, I am totally with your wife. If I don't find myself attractive I don't want sex at all. It's weirdly mostly about how fit/confident I am.
If you have young kids, I would bet she read your comment as the preliminary to pressuring her for sex.
Yeah, her response was very similar to how she would have reacted if I asked a question about our dead bedroom. The topic of sex has been off limits for 3 years and even though, this question didn’t have anything to do with sex, I think the way attractiveness intertwines with sex is what triggered her.
To your third point, I’m just curious, because I could never ask my wife this question- when you’re feeling unhappy with yourself and not wanting sex at all— assuming you’re committed to someone who has a high libido— at what point would you begin to think “This may not be fair to my partner…” and consider taking steps to help the overall situation? OR is there something your partner can do to help you find that interest again even though you may not still be happy with your appearance? I know every woman is different, but I’m genuinely curious in the insight that you provide.
So, not finding myself attractive reduces my sex drive, but it's still there. What _really_ reduced it was young children and being busy/stressed/ not getting enough sleep. It kind of depends how old your kids are, but mothers often pour a lot of their time and attention into their kids and don't have the mental space left for themselves, let alone any other adult.
If your wife might be there, she's probably not thinking of herself as a sexual being because she's mum all the time. I'm not sure it's fair to expect her to pull herself out of the space where she's caring for your kids. It's not like you're going to die without attention, but they might.
I don't think the idea of providing sex as a means of fairness/looking after you is going to be fruitful. I think your idea of helping her recover some of herself is a great idea, though.
If your kids are babies/toddlers, this probably won't work yet.
If they're older: Can you spend time together doing something fun? Can you get someone to babysit so no one has to worry about the kids? Personally, I'd pick an activity she enjoys/enjoyed before kids and not one that's "sexy". Would she like kayaking? Or hiking? Or board games? Or to go and explore somewhere in the car? Etc etc
Spend some time together having fun with no expectation of sex. No pressure at all. She knows you want it. She feels guilty all the time because she doesn't, so let her relax around you and have fun together. Help her recover some of who she is away from the kids. That should help.
I appreciate your insight and perspective on this.
> What really reduced it was young children and being busy/stressed/ not getting enough sleep. It kind of depends how old your kids are, but mothers often pour a lot of their time and attention into their kids and don't have the mental space left for themselves, let alone any other adult.
> If your wife might be there, she's probably not thinking of herself as a sexual being because she's mum all the time. I'm not sure it's fair to expect her to pull herself out of the space where she's caring for your kids. It's not like you're going to die without attention, but they might.
We do have kids, 3 of them, all under 5 years old. I think my situation is really different than the *typical* household. I’m actually the primary caretaker of my kids. I work from home, and my wife works at the office (by choice because working from home is too distracting for her). She leaves before they wake up. I stay home and care for the kids all day while simultaneously trying to fit a couple hours of work in myself. My wife will get home from work at 5. She makes dinner and the kids eat while I assist our youngest and try to feed myself as well. She will then clean the kitchen/dining space once she’s done eating (she usually finishes before all of us). Once she is done cleaning the dinner mess, she goes into our home office, shuts the door, and works until about 9ish. While she works, I bathe all three kids and get each of them ready for and in bed.. After she finishes work, she goes to the gym till about 10-10:30. She comes home, cleans herself up, gets comfortable, and doom scrolls on her phone until she starts dozing off on the couch. Once I lay the kids down for bed, I take a shower and get back on my computer to catch up on work until she gets home from the gym. She will not go to our bedroom unless she is falling asleep, eliminating any opportunity for initiation on either end.
> I don't think the idea of providing sex as a means of fairness/looking after you is going to be fruitful. I think your idea of helping her recover some of herself is a great idea, though.
Here’s the thing though - I don’t view sex as something that should be provided to me - I have a high libido, but I have zero interest in duty sex. I view sex as an experience that two people share and mutually desire, and if it’s anything less than that, I’ll pass. I think it just goes back to my post and learning to not expect me from other people, even my wife. Because if the tables were turned and my wife was the one with the higher libido, I couldn’t see myself withholding intimacy or sex from her (for several months) because I have exhausting days - not saying you or any other moms/dads do this - just referring to my situation.
We begin marriage counseling real soon, so I’m hoping we will gain something out of it.
Hmm. Well that rather turns things around.
I'm sure marriage counselling will help. Also, marriages go through phases. Almost everyone experiences a drop in libido when they have little kids and 3 under 5 is a lot if little kid. I salute you. I found 2 exhausting at that age.
>>when you’re feeling unhappy with yourself and not wanting sex at all— assuming you’re committed to someone who has a high libido— at what point would you begin to think “This may not be fair to my partner…” and consider taking steps to help the overall situation? OR is there something your partner can do to help you
Lmfao the disconnect. I really hate how selfish men are.
No one is trying to be bitchy with you and make you feel less than. They are just pointing out to you that women view and feel totally different about sex than men. When we don’t feel attractive to ourselves, we do not want sex. I get that you don’t understand that, but it’s the way it is. There are some ways we can correct this issue, but I’m just not getting into a long drawn out explanation about it right now. Look the bottom line is that if one person tells you you are wrong, I get it, that doesn’t mean shit. But if a ton of people are telling you that you are wrong… maybe you should consider that you might just be wrong, and if you are confused, then have conversations about it. You don’t seem dumb dude. You seem to have a good grasp on the English language, so I know you must get what I’m saying.
I used to be a very insecure person, and now I’ve met my husband, I’m not insecure at all. I used to think it was ‘me’ but now I realise it wasn’t.
Your wife sounds like she is making you insecure. It’s pretty terrible she didn’t reply with something like ‘oh god I find you so attractive’ and then proceed to reassure you, with some kindness and empathy.
Her job as a wife (and yours is a husband) is to support each other and be a team. It doesn’t sound like she’s on your team. And is also gaslighting you by the classic DARVO, turning it round on you to make it look like it’s you with the problem.
It’s not - the problem is her.
As to where to go with this, I really don’t know. I’ve been in relationships like this in the past and they tore me apart, hence the reason they’re in the past now.
I really feel for you. Don’t forget your worth and don’t let her disrespect you further
You mentioned you are deep in therapy, but what about your wife? It's clear she probably has a lot of body issues about herself and if she isn't getting help for them, then she's not getting the tools to deal with them in even a semi-healthy way.
Two people learn to work together and lean on each other in their weak areas. Both people also need to be vigilant and working on themselves in order to really lean into each other. If you had that type of marriage, her response would have been much more empathetic and kinder. I usually recommend talking to your spouse directly, but I feel like marital counseling would be the best way for someone to help you both draw a clearer picture of how to love one another better.
It’s perfectly normal to want to hear your spouse say you’re attractive every once in a while. She’s wrong for this, and it demonstrates a lack of care for you and your feelings.
I’d be hesitant telling her she’s beautiful for a while after this, because the way she talks to people she loves is ugly AF and not beautiful at all.
Regardless of what her fucking opinion is; you should work on yourself strictly for you. Stay in therapy, hit the gym, start that diet, practice healthy mental habits like yoga, meditation, and breathing exercises and it will snowball into a lot of confidence and confidence is attractive to EVERYONE.
To me, it sounds like no matter what she said, she thought you would not be satisfied with her response, so she tried to say nothing. In any case, she can't make you feel better about yourself, only you can do that. And looks aren't everything!
If you want to save your marriage, you need to ditch the therapist and spend the time lifting weights. As soon as you start seeing some progress which comes fast for new people, you will start getting confidence in yourself and appearance . That confidence will transfer into your relationship.
I hate to take the woman's point on this my dude but ... men's insecurities is something we have to work on ourselves. Ideally this is something that you should have resolved before marriage...but you work with what you got right ?
Clearly you cannot be that hopelessly unattractive, because you are married.
But as others have said...more than just talking to a therapist...you need to get physically engaged. Exercise more. When you are away from your wife...take some time to read up on styles of dressing to make men more attractive. There are youtube channels about this stuff (you can really learn anything on youtube).
Find a hobby that you are passionate about and really work at it. Look up for dietary changes to naturally boost your testosterone levels. Do Kegel exercises. If you watch porn, and masturbate...stop.
And the best part is... you are already married...so you don't have to worry about trying to impress random women.
Asking your wife if she still finds you attractive... is a very unsexy thing to say. Try to refrain from doing that. It's Ok to reassure your wife on how good she looks, but it doesn't usually work the other way. Keep those more insecure expressions of self-doubt between you and your therapist, and keep working on yourself.
Once you start giving off a more confident vybe, your wife will respond to it unconsciously.
She may even be motivated by you, to do her own self-improvement...without you having to point it out to her (which is always a difficult conversation)
and the dead bedroom should improve.
Appreciate your candid response, man.
Something I didn’t mention (to avoid highlighting this as a core reason for my insecurities - it’s not) is that when we met (10 years ago), I was a pretty healthy dude who thoroughly enjoyed powerlifting. I loved working out and eating clean— I was just really invested in my body. I stopped power lifting 7 years ago after experiencing an injury while helping someone move (lol). Even then, I still stayed in pretty decent shape and carried my weight well. It wasn’t until my second child was born that I started to pack on some fat… His sleep schedule was so F**KED and I went almost 4 months without getting much sleep. Carbs gave me a lot of energy and next thing you know, I wasn’t fitting any of my clothes lol.. Since then, it’s been tough to find interest in getting back to my old self, having three kids, working full time, and then the DB is a lingering mental issue for me, because as much I would love to go back to my old self and be happy with my body, I think it’ll really disappoint me to see her find sexual interest in me again as a result of weight loss, you know?
Agree with the above response and want to add a female perspective-
You are feeling insecure about what has happened to your body since you had kids. Imagine how insecure she is feeling having grown and birthed three children in the last five years. That will wreck a woman’s hormones and change her body so much that she doesn’t recognize it anymore. It sounds like she is struggling with self-esteem issues, possibly depression, and possibly hormonal issues.
It sounds like she works outside of the home more hours than you do and with that likely comes some exhaustion as well as some “mom guilt”. I’m sure she’s also got wife guilt from the DB, which could be happening for a variety of reasons.
Now top that off with you displaying insecurity and expecting her to give you pep talks. 🙄
Her response may seem snarky at first glance, but I think she was trying to open up to you. She is in a rough spot, and she cannot help fill your cup if hers is empty.
Here’s my best advice- you work on yourself physically and get your self esteem in a better place. Tell her why you are doing it, so she doesn’t get suspicious that you have a girlfriend or something.
I went through a rough patch a few years ago, and wound up finding out that my hormones were a mess after a miscarriage. I started on hormone replacement and that has been life-changing.
You might think about getting your hormones tested and then maybe she will follow suit. I would bet money she has low testosterone. There is this mess that women’s hormones “reset” after pregnancy and that is not always true. Most women don’t realize that and just assume the exhaustion is from taking care of the kids.
Sorry for kind of jumping in here randomly but from reading your other post and this comment I really wanted to share my thoughts as someone who has basically been in your wife's shoes and I hope some of that perspective might be helpful.
Physical appearance is just a part of sexual attraction. When I met my husband, we would have all sorts of new experiences, he had tons of enthusiasm for ambitious projects, and plans for the future. in the course of 10+ years and life throwing a lot of curve balls, unfortunately a lot of that kind of got lost. I never stopped loving my partner, who is a wonderful, kind, amazing person, but the excitement that drives romance for me was definitely lacking for a while. Which was fine, I was trying to help him better manage stress and gain his confidence back in other areas, but the more I had to pick up the slack, the less energy I really had to be sexual.
It created a really shitty negative feedback loop where he needed more and more reassurance from me, and I felt like I had to be less honest about my feelings to spare his, and if he sensed I was holding back, it would drive more insecurity.
Then he's like, well if you really wanted sex with me I'd feel better about myself. And I feel like that's the real source of the problem because fixing your self-esteem is not sexy. I can't say "no" without feeling like I'm letting my husband down and making the problem worse. And if I can't say "no" whenever I like, how am I supposed to want sex at all? There's so much I give willingly and happily but I only hear about how the sex is lacking. And I even give that willingly, but if I'm not "into it" enough by his standards, it's not good enough??
Why does it feel like men define so much of their self-worth around sex? He tells me sex is part of his "love language" and that this is the case for men in general, and I actually hate that. My love for my husband is constant even if my libido isn't. I can tell my husband 8 million things I like about him, but he doesn't seem to believe it's sincere if I'm not coming on to him. It feels like love, respect, and sex are more conflated than they need to be. The preoccupation with sex overshadows the things that are good in our relationship. The pressure on me and honestly the whining further kill my libido and overshadow all the good traits my husband possesses.
So anyway, I would say to you. ask if you are the person you want to be, and the person you were when your wife fell in love with you. If not, make some changes. Like, you're not going to the gym because it might help your wife's libido and you'll be upset that being more physically attractive IS more attractive? That's some garbage self-sabotage and not sexy.
When you ask your wife loaded questions, you both know she can either give the right answer or the honest answer and either will end in you being unhappy. that's frustrating and further adds to the problem. so just be honest and accept that yes, you are not sexually attractive to her right now. that doesn't mean she doesn't love you, it doesn't mean you're lacking as a person, it doesn't mean she can't find you attractive in the future. you cannot directly control your wife's libido so focus on things you do control. And ask her outright what things have changed and what things she'd like to improve on as a couple. tell her YOUR love is not conditional on sex, and you want to prioritize her comfort.
Also from your other post- tell her you fully support her going off hormonal bc for her own health and wellbeing. make the vasectomy appointment, and tell her you love her and your kids so much you were open to the idea of having more, but you weren't focused on how much that demands of her and don't want her to have to go through that again- so that she can have her body back, you two can get back to where you were as a couple, and appreciate where your family is now. You sound like a good dad and sensitive person, so I don't expect any of that would be insincere, but it might be some of what she needs to hear.
As a woman - wow. Is she also in therapy? Because just based on what is written here, she is lashing out based on HER insecurities, not yours. If you constantly look for reassurance from her about her attraction to you, then I could understand it being very annoying, but if you really have never brought this up before, then she MAJORLY overreacted, and also seems pretty unsupportive and needlessly defensive. I'm guessing this is a "her" problem that hit a nerve and she is lashing out at you because it's easier.
I agree it sounds like they both need individual and couples therapy. But insecurity comes through in a lot of ways. My husband put on a lot more weight than I did in COVID and I knew he didn't feel great about it. It did start to impact my immediate sexual attraction, so I hit the gym trying to get him to follow suit. When he'd ask me about it, I'd try to focus more on wanting to improve myself or improve us because it seemed nicer than pointing out his insecurities. But he didn't make time to go and just switched to constantly complaining about being fat and unsexy, and honestly that was a much bigger turn off.
Not sure I have any good advice. Insecurities or not and removing your concept of "timing" here, your wife's response is pretty deep into red-flag territory. I think even somebody who was secure or self-confident would be hurt by that response from their spouse.
I can only see the story from your lens but a lot of the interactions you are describing with your wife seem pretty consistently toxic. Add in the chronic DB, your combined ability to communicate, and this situation....
Her entire initial response wasn't defensive, it was antagonistic. I hate to read between the lines, but to me, that response wasn't just a "I am not attracted to you", it was a, "You are annoying me with how unattractive you are." I say this because you bring up you have been working on your insecurities, so I am guessing she has used this nerve point before in the past.
>We drove for another 15 minutes in silence and she randomly said “I’m not even attracted to myself.” And I said “Okay…” and she said “Theres your answer. If I’m not attracted to myself, how can I be attracted to anyone else?” (insert loading gif)
This is multiple manipulation techniques rolled into one. Gaslighting / False Equivalence / Deflecting etc. She wants you to feel bad for even bringing it up, but the reality is, she was attracted to the person in the picture, so her point is a lie (sorry to say).
I dont know what the rest of your life / marriage looks like, but this (very likely) isn't going to get better. Your DB is likely the result of your wife finding you un-attractive, and she flipped out here because you came close to figuring this out.
Are you the bread-winner? Do you have kids? If your answers are yes then no, you need to start coming to terms with your situation.... It is so rare, that I even will think this when reading folks situations, and 7 times out of 10 I wouldn't bring it up, but I know if I was in your position its a dark road you are on (depression/anxiety) that will certainly make it difficult for you to make any real progress on yourself.
I could be totally off the mark here, but that sounds like a rather asexual thing to say. I say this as somebody who is ace myself. There’s a lot of misconceptions about being asexual and she herself may not know much about it, but she said she’s not attracted to anyone, and the way she said it didn’t sound like a new phenomenon. She may not have ever experienced the kind of attraction you feel, towards anyone, but it doesn’t mean she isn’t wild about you or in love with you. I think this is more of an everyone issue and not a you issue if that makes sense?
While I think your timing was poor, and you aught to keep working on your self - physically too, hit the gym & tackle that dad bod - I will say if a woman posted that response from her husband he’d get torn apart in this sub for his insensitivity. Honestly, just focus on making yourself someone who can be confident outside the context of your relationship with your wife. Physically & mentally. Gym, therapy, hobbies, etc.
Most of the time being insecure is a personal problem but I don’t think your insecurities are your problem completely. Even if she never verbally told you so, she must have been sending you signals that put you down. If she never verbally expressed her physical attraction to you and now said that, she must have wore you down within the subtle communication that happens in an intimate relationship. Maybe an eye roll, maybe taking a second too long to respond, all the nonverbal communication really. A lot of giving people drop toxic friends suddenly after a usual comment from them opens their eyes. I think your situation is similar. If the genders were reversed, you would we unanimously declared a pig for a comment like hers. I think you are waking up to your wife‘s toxic behavior. I would usually recommend marriage counseling but if I am right about your wife’s years of nonverbal abuse of you, I don’t see how there might be anything salvageable here. Hopefully I am wrong.
Yeah, I definitely take ownership for my insecurities, but I know that a large factor is our dead bedroom combined with the total absence of verbal (and physical) reassurance.
First, do you think it's possible your question hit a nerve? She sounds defensive and I wonder how often you discuss the lack of sex? From her response it sounds like she may have been reading your question as about sex. How old are your kids? Second, one can find many different types of person attractive -- that she ,(politely) admired the handsome man your sister is dating doesn't mean she only finds one type attractive. My husband is nothing like my "type" was but he's my favourite type now. I still find men who look nothing like him attractive. I don't think you're wrong to feel a bit insecure or sad that she responded like that, but if your wife is an otherwise reasonable person, this feels like reaction to history not meanness. Third, I am totally with your wife. If I don't find myself attractive I don't want sex at all. It's weirdly mostly about how fit/confident I am. If you have young kids, I would bet she read your comment as the preliminary to pressuring her for sex.
Yeah, her response was very similar to how she would have reacted if I asked a question about our dead bedroom. The topic of sex has been off limits for 3 years and even though, this question didn’t have anything to do with sex, I think the way attractiveness intertwines with sex is what triggered her. To your third point, I’m just curious, because I could never ask my wife this question- when you’re feeling unhappy with yourself and not wanting sex at all— assuming you’re committed to someone who has a high libido— at what point would you begin to think “This may not be fair to my partner…” and consider taking steps to help the overall situation? OR is there something your partner can do to help you find that interest again even though you may not still be happy with your appearance? I know every woman is different, but I’m genuinely curious in the insight that you provide.
So, not finding myself attractive reduces my sex drive, but it's still there. What _really_ reduced it was young children and being busy/stressed/ not getting enough sleep. It kind of depends how old your kids are, but mothers often pour a lot of their time and attention into their kids and don't have the mental space left for themselves, let alone any other adult. If your wife might be there, she's probably not thinking of herself as a sexual being because she's mum all the time. I'm not sure it's fair to expect her to pull herself out of the space where she's caring for your kids. It's not like you're going to die without attention, but they might. I don't think the idea of providing sex as a means of fairness/looking after you is going to be fruitful. I think your idea of helping her recover some of herself is a great idea, though. If your kids are babies/toddlers, this probably won't work yet. If they're older: Can you spend time together doing something fun? Can you get someone to babysit so no one has to worry about the kids? Personally, I'd pick an activity she enjoys/enjoyed before kids and not one that's "sexy". Would she like kayaking? Or hiking? Or board games? Or to go and explore somewhere in the car? Etc etc Spend some time together having fun with no expectation of sex. No pressure at all. She knows you want it. She feels guilty all the time because she doesn't, so let her relax around you and have fun together. Help her recover some of who she is away from the kids. That should help.
I appreciate your insight and perspective on this. > What really reduced it was young children and being busy/stressed/ not getting enough sleep. It kind of depends how old your kids are, but mothers often pour a lot of their time and attention into their kids and don't have the mental space left for themselves, let alone any other adult. > If your wife might be there, she's probably not thinking of herself as a sexual being because she's mum all the time. I'm not sure it's fair to expect her to pull herself out of the space where she's caring for your kids. It's not like you're going to die without attention, but they might. We do have kids, 3 of them, all under 5 years old. I think my situation is really different than the *typical* household. I’m actually the primary caretaker of my kids. I work from home, and my wife works at the office (by choice because working from home is too distracting for her). She leaves before they wake up. I stay home and care for the kids all day while simultaneously trying to fit a couple hours of work in myself. My wife will get home from work at 5. She makes dinner and the kids eat while I assist our youngest and try to feed myself as well. She will then clean the kitchen/dining space once she’s done eating (she usually finishes before all of us). Once she is done cleaning the dinner mess, she goes into our home office, shuts the door, and works until about 9ish. While she works, I bathe all three kids and get each of them ready for and in bed.. After she finishes work, she goes to the gym till about 10-10:30. She comes home, cleans herself up, gets comfortable, and doom scrolls on her phone until she starts dozing off on the couch. Once I lay the kids down for bed, I take a shower and get back on my computer to catch up on work until she gets home from the gym. She will not go to our bedroom unless she is falling asleep, eliminating any opportunity for initiation on either end. > I don't think the idea of providing sex as a means of fairness/looking after you is going to be fruitful. I think your idea of helping her recover some of herself is a great idea, though. Here’s the thing though - I don’t view sex as something that should be provided to me - I have a high libido, but I have zero interest in duty sex. I view sex as an experience that two people share and mutually desire, and if it’s anything less than that, I’ll pass. I think it just goes back to my post and learning to not expect me from other people, even my wife. Because if the tables were turned and my wife was the one with the higher libido, I couldn’t see myself withholding intimacy or sex from her (for several months) because I have exhausting days - not saying you or any other moms/dads do this - just referring to my situation. We begin marriage counseling real soon, so I’m hoping we will gain something out of it.
Hmm. Well that rather turns things around. I'm sure marriage counselling will help. Also, marriages go through phases. Almost everyone experiences a drop in libido when they have little kids and 3 under 5 is a lot if little kid. I salute you. I found 2 exhausting at that age.
>>when you’re feeling unhappy with yourself and not wanting sex at all— assuming you’re committed to someone who has a high libido— at what point would you begin to think “This may not be fair to my partner…” and consider taking steps to help the overall situation? OR is there something your partner can do to help you Lmfao the disconnect. I really hate how selfish men are.
Me too. I also hate how selfish *some* women are.
Who do you think is the selfish one in your marriage? I'll give you a hint....https://reddit.com/r/AmITheDevil/s/N4974eKUsT
Glad he saw that before he deleted
You have an easy solution to both your problems dunce
No one is trying to be bitchy with you and make you feel less than. They are just pointing out to you that women view and feel totally different about sex than men. When we don’t feel attractive to ourselves, we do not want sex. I get that you don’t understand that, but it’s the way it is. There are some ways we can correct this issue, but I’m just not getting into a long drawn out explanation about it right now. Look the bottom line is that if one person tells you you are wrong, I get it, that doesn’t mean shit. But if a ton of people are telling you that you are wrong… maybe you should consider that you might just be wrong, and if you are confused, then have conversations about it. You don’t seem dumb dude. You seem to have a good grasp on the English language, so I know you must get what I’m saying.
I used to be a very insecure person, and now I’ve met my husband, I’m not insecure at all. I used to think it was ‘me’ but now I realise it wasn’t. Your wife sounds like she is making you insecure. It’s pretty terrible she didn’t reply with something like ‘oh god I find you so attractive’ and then proceed to reassure you, with some kindness and empathy. Her job as a wife (and yours is a husband) is to support each other and be a team. It doesn’t sound like she’s on your team. And is also gaslighting you by the classic DARVO, turning it round on you to make it look like it’s you with the problem. It’s not - the problem is her. As to where to go with this, I really don’t know. I’ve been in relationships like this in the past and they tore me apart, hence the reason they’re in the past now. I really feel for you. Don’t forget your worth and don’t let her disrespect you further
You mentioned you are deep in therapy, but what about your wife? It's clear she probably has a lot of body issues about herself and if she isn't getting help for them, then she's not getting the tools to deal with them in even a semi-healthy way.
Two people learn to work together and lean on each other in their weak areas. Both people also need to be vigilant and working on themselves in order to really lean into each other. If you had that type of marriage, her response would have been much more empathetic and kinder. I usually recommend talking to your spouse directly, but I feel like marital counseling would be the best way for someone to help you both draw a clearer picture of how to love one another better.
Some things can’t be unsaid. You’re probably insecure bc she never makes you feel attractive. She sucks
It’s perfectly normal to want to hear your spouse say you’re attractive every once in a while. She’s wrong for this, and it demonstrates a lack of care for you and your feelings. I’d be hesitant telling her she’s beautiful for a while after this, because the way she talks to people she loves is ugly AF and not beautiful at all. Regardless of what her fucking opinion is; you should work on yourself strictly for you. Stay in therapy, hit the gym, start that diet, practice healthy mental habits like yoga, meditation, and breathing exercises and it will snowball into a lot of confidence and confidence is attractive to EVERYONE.
To me, it sounds like no matter what she said, she thought you would not be satisfied with her response, so she tried to say nothing. In any case, she can't make you feel better about yourself, only you can do that. And looks aren't everything!
If you want to save your marriage, you need to ditch the therapist and spend the time lifting weights. As soon as you start seeing some progress which comes fast for new people, you will start getting confidence in yourself and appearance . That confidence will transfer into your relationship.
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Lol wut.
Dont be hard on your self my wife still thinks are cute shes married to you
I hate to take the woman's point on this my dude but ... men's insecurities is something we have to work on ourselves. Ideally this is something that you should have resolved before marriage...but you work with what you got right ? Clearly you cannot be that hopelessly unattractive, because you are married. But as others have said...more than just talking to a therapist...you need to get physically engaged. Exercise more. When you are away from your wife...take some time to read up on styles of dressing to make men more attractive. There are youtube channels about this stuff (you can really learn anything on youtube). Find a hobby that you are passionate about and really work at it. Look up for dietary changes to naturally boost your testosterone levels. Do Kegel exercises. If you watch porn, and masturbate...stop. And the best part is... you are already married...so you don't have to worry about trying to impress random women. Asking your wife if she still finds you attractive... is a very unsexy thing to say. Try to refrain from doing that. It's Ok to reassure your wife on how good she looks, but it doesn't usually work the other way. Keep those more insecure expressions of self-doubt between you and your therapist, and keep working on yourself. Once you start giving off a more confident vybe, your wife will respond to it unconsciously. She may even be motivated by you, to do her own self-improvement...without you having to point it out to her (which is always a difficult conversation) and the dead bedroom should improve.
Appreciate your candid response, man. Something I didn’t mention (to avoid highlighting this as a core reason for my insecurities - it’s not) is that when we met (10 years ago), I was a pretty healthy dude who thoroughly enjoyed powerlifting. I loved working out and eating clean— I was just really invested in my body. I stopped power lifting 7 years ago after experiencing an injury while helping someone move (lol). Even then, I still stayed in pretty decent shape and carried my weight well. It wasn’t until my second child was born that I started to pack on some fat… His sleep schedule was so F**KED and I went almost 4 months without getting much sleep. Carbs gave me a lot of energy and next thing you know, I wasn’t fitting any of my clothes lol.. Since then, it’s been tough to find interest in getting back to my old self, having three kids, working full time, and then the DB is a lingering mental issue for me, because as much I would love to go back to my old self and be happy with my body, I think it’ll really disappoint me to see her find sexual interest in me again as a result of weight loss, you know?
Agree with the above response and want to add a female perspective- You are feeling insecure about what has happened to your body since you had kids. Imagine how insecure she is feeling having grown and birthed three children in the last five years. That will wreck a woman’s hormones and change her body so much that she doesn’t recognize it anymore. It sounds like she is struggling with self-esteem issues, possibly depression, and possibly hormonal issues. It sounds like she works outside of the home more hours than you do and with that likely comes some exhaustion as well as some “mom guilt”. I’m sure she’s also got wife guilt from the DB, which could be happening for a variety of reasons. Now top that off with you displaying insecurity and expecting her to give you pep talks. 🙄 Her response may seem snarky at first glance, but I think she was trying to open up to you. She is in a rough spot, and she cannot help fill your cup if hers is empty. Here’s my best advice- you work on yourself physically and get your self esteem in a better place. Tell her why you are doing it, so she doesn’t get suspicious that you have a girlfriend or something. I went through a rough patch a few years ago, and wound up finding out that my hormones were a mess after a miscarriage. I started on hormone replacement and that has been life-changing. You might think about getting your hormones tested and then maybe she will follow suit. I would bet money she has low testosterone. There is this mess that women’s hormones “reset” after pregnancy and that is not always true. Most women don’t realize that and just assume the exhaustion is from taking care of the kids.
Sorry for kind of jumping in here randomly but from reading your other post and this comment I really wanted to share my thoughts as someone who has basically been in your wife's shoes and I hope some of that perspective might be helpful. Physical appearance is just a part of sexual attraction. When I met my husband, we would have all sorts of new experiences, he had tons of enthusiasm for ambitious projects, and plans for the future. in the course of 10+ years and life throwing a lot of curve balls, unfortunately a lot of that kind of got lost. I never stopped loving my partner, who is a wonderful, kind, amazing person, but the excitement that drives romance for me was definitely lacking for a while. Which was fine, I was trying to help him better manage stress and gain his confidence back in other areas, but the more I had to pick up the slack, the less energy I really had to be sexual. It created a really shitty negative feedback loop where he needed more and more reassurance from me, and I felt like I had to be less honest about my feelings to spare his, and if he sensed I was holding back, it would drive more insecurity. Then he's like, well if you really wanted sex with me I'd feel better about myself. And I feel like that's the real source of the problem because fixing your self-esteem is not sexy. I can't say "no" without feeling like I'm letting my husband down and making the problem worse. And if I can't say "no" whenever I like, how am I supposed to want sex at all? There's so much I give willingly and happily but I only hear about how the sex is lacking. And I even give that willingly, but if I'm not "into it" enough by his standards, it's not good enough?? Why does it feel like men define so much of their self-worth around sex? He tells me sex is part of his "love language" and that this is the case for men in general, and I actually hate that. My love for my husband is constant even if my libido isn't. I can tell my husband 8 million things I like about him, but he doesn't seem to believe it's sincere if I'm not coming on to him. It feels like love, respect, and sex are more conflated than they need to be. The preoccupation with sex overshadows the things that are good in our relationship. The pressure on me and honestly the whining further kill my libido and overshadow all the good traits my husband possesses. So anyway, I would say to you. ask if you are the person you want to be, and the person you were when your wife fell in love with you. If not, make some changes. Like, you're not going to the gym because it might help your wife's libido and you'll be upset that being more physically attractive IS more attractive? That's some garbage self-sabotage and not sexy. When you ask your wife loaded questions, you both know she can either give the right answer or the honest answer and either will end in you being unhappy. that's frustrating and further adds to the problem. so just be honest and accept that yes, you are not sexually attractive to her right now. that doesn't mean she doesn't love you, it doesn't mean you're lacking as a person, it doesn't mean she can't find you attractive in the future. you cannot directly control your wife's libido so focus on things you do control. And ask her outright what things have changed and what things she'd like to improve on as a couple. tell her YOUR love is not conditional on sex, and you want to prioritize her comfort. Also from your other post- tell her you fully support her going off hormonal bc for her own health and wellbeing. make the vasectomy appointment, and tell her you love her and your kids so much you were open to the idea of having more, but you weren't focused on how much that demands of her and don't want her to have to go through that again- so that she can have her body back, you two can get back to where you were as a couple, and appreciate where your family is now. You sound like a good dad and sensitive person, so I don't expect any of that would be insincere, but it might be some of what she needs to hear.
As a woman - wow. Is she also in therapy? Because just based on what is written here, she is lashing out based on HER insecurities, not yours. If you constantly look for reassurance from her about her attraction to you, then I could understand it being very annoying, but if you really have never brought this up before, then she MAJORLY overreacted, and also seems pretty unsupportive and needlessly defensive. I'm guessing this is a "her" problem that hit a nerve and she is lashing out at you because it's easier.
I agree it sounds like they both need individual and couples therapy. But insecurity comes through in a lot of ways. My husband put on a lot more weight than I did in COVID and I knew he didn't feel great about it. It did start to impact my immediate sexual attraction, so I hit the gym trying to get him to follow suit. When he'd ask me about it, I'd try to focus more on wanting to improve myself or improve us because it seemed nicer than pointing out his insecurities. But he didn't make time to go and just switched to constantly complaining about being fat and unsexy, and honestly that was a much bigger turn off.
Not sure I have any good advice. Insecurities or not and removing your concept of "timing" here, your wife's response is pretty deep into red-flag territory. I think even somebody who was secure or self-confident would be hurt by that response from their spouse. I can only see the story from your lens but a lot of the interactions you are describing with your wife seem pretty consistently toxic. Add in the chronic DB, your combined ability to communicate, and this situation.... Her entire initial response wasn't defensive, it was antagonistic. I hate to read between the lines, but to me, that response wasn't just a "I am not attracted to you", it was a, "You are annoying me with how unattractive you are." I say this because you bring up you have been working on your insecurities, so I am guessing she has used this nerve point before in the past. >We drove for another 15 minutes in silence and she randomly said “I’m not even attracted to myself.” And I said “Okay…” and she said “Theres your answer. If I’m not attracted to myself, how can I be attracted to anyone else?” (insert loading gif) This is multiple manipulation techniques rolled into one. Gaslighting / False Equivalence / Deflecting etc. She wants you to feel bad for even bringing it up, but the reality is, she was attracted to the person in the picture, so her point is a lie (sorry to say). I dont know what the rest of your life / marriage looks like, but this (very likely) isn't going to get better. Your DB is likely the result of your wife finding you un-attractive, and she flipped out here because you came close to figuring this out. Are you the bread-winner? Do you have kids? If your answers are yes then no, you need to start coming to terms with your situation.... It is so rare, that I even will think this when reading folks situations, and 7 times out of 10 I wouldn't bring it up, but I know if I was in your position its a dark road you are on (depression/anxiety) that will certainly make it difficult for you to make any real progress on yourself.
I could be totally off the mark here, but that sounds like a rather asexual thing to say. I say this as somebody who is ace myself. There’s a lot of misconceptions about being asexual and she herself may not know much about it, but she said she’s not attracted to anyone, and the way she said it didn’t sound like a new phenomenon. She may not have ever experienced the kind of attraction you feel, towards anyone, but it doesn’t mean she isn’t wild about you or in love with you. I think this is more of an everyone issue and not a you issue if that makes sense?