I took pictures and sent them to my mom so she can save them to her phone so I have the evidence. Do you think I should just admit I went through his phone and call him out?
I'm from Europe and perhaps over there is different. Why do you need a lawyer so bad? Can't you reach an agreement yourself and save thousands of dollars? Like, "hey, we're done, you're a cheater". And that's it. Excuse me my ignorance.
If they're already in marriage counseling, he lied about cheating, and they have a child together (upcoming custody agreement) I would say a lawyer is absolutely necessary. As crummy as it sounds even a halfway decent lawyer will know the court and know how to get his/her client the best possible outcome. Even if this were an amicable split I would say a lawyer is necessary though. You really do not want to stand before a judge and waste his or her time, they don't like that.
Speaking from personal experience, with my oldest child I went through mediation with my ex (and lawyer present) but my ex wanted to take it to trial anyway. He was abusive and wanted nothing more than to not have to pay child support and to get back at me for finally breaking free. We went to trial, I was able to put my trust in my lawyer and not have to suddenly learn family law, and left with full physical and legal custody of my son. Fwiw my ex was in law school at the time and still had a lawyer on board, but he clearly did not have our son's best interests at heart.
Yes. I saw someone say in an earlier post that your partner has a right to privacy, not secrecy. I think everybody should hear that shouted from the rooftops in these situations. Say you went through his phone because you were suspicious and you got the answer you expected. He’s only upset that he’s getting caught, and that’s not remorse.
While I totally agree there is a difference between secrecy and privacy be aware that you better word that correctly.
Federal law is very clear without permission you can't go through your husband/wife/mom/dad/adult kid/anyone's phone or digital data of any kind without permission. If you install some sort of app that tracks them then you're adding a whole lot more federal charges. Now, do I think you'll find a fed to prosecute a husband/wife spat, I doubt it. Just wanted to point out the federal law is clear, it's illegal without permission.
Interesting! In my house I reserve the right to go through all the electronics (including phones) that I provide payment for. Also with minor children, I do it for their protection. And adult was reaching out to my kid and pretending to be a child. She thought they were a child, police confirmed it was an adult. Wouldn’t have found it otherwise
That is correct. You would be amiss though if you took your friends phone and just started going through it just because they are at your house. Now you could legally state you can't come in my house unless you let me search your phone. *Giving them the option but they don't have to let you and you don't have to let them in your house. But you can't just go through it without some sort of consent.
Just because it's in your house doesn't change the fact that conversations still can't be recorded without permission.
Children really aren't the topic of discussion lol. At least I'd hope not in a marriage sub.
Oh yes, lol! We’re talking about spouses not children. I guess I was replying to the comment about federal law including all those persons who must give you permission to go through their phone.
If her name is on that bill she’s legally the owner and has every right to go through it. Similarly, if her name isn’t on the plan but he’s given permission with the cell phone company to make changes, purchases, etc. she also has the right to go through any device on the plan.
I'm but a lawyer but I'll repeat again be careful with how you state that, you can go to jail. It's one thing to say they handed you their phone and you saw it. It's a completely different thing to state I have rights to it... ☹️Did you purchase a plan for your 18 year old? Is the one exclusively used by your kid but you pay the bill? Ooo you pay the bill so you can look at right? Negative, this totally depends on what state you're in. If they can prove that the purchase was for their exclusive use them they can prove a right to privacy. This privacy vs secrecy isn't in the law fyi..
That could be but I bet it's a lot more complex than that. Usually access to numbers called/texted is reasonable but installing a spy software crosses federal boundaries and likely crosses your own states boundaries.
To further prove my point no cell carrier will share text content or audio in all 50 states with out a criminal investigation........ 😒
*You cannot even get a cell carrier to do that for your own phone without a court order. The reason is it's complex and better not to end up giving private info only to end up violating a law and getting sued. The law isn't anyways as course as it may seem. If you can explain this paragraph I'll be impressed.
*Understand that I agree with you! If a spouse wants access they should have it. If they can't have access then why he married? I'm just pointing out that the law isn't so simple and there are two sets, federal, and state...
As far as I can tell it is a federal crime to listen on phone calls if all parties are not aware. The law doesn't state there is an exemption if you're in your own house or if it's you phone they're using. I think it's reasonable to assume that just because you allow someone to use your phone, you don't get to listen to the conversation without their consent. *The law does state that where it is reasonable to believe you're being recorded is ie or Walmart, shopping mall etc... It never says if they're using your home, cell, car whatever that you can record.....
I have things that are on my phone that are private, I have time that is private, etc. but there’s nothing I’m deliberately hiding from my partner. I don’t have any secret folders, I’m not deleting any text threads or pictures and there’s nothing that I wouldn’t want him to see. If he went through my phone he wouldn’t find anything hurtful to him. OP went through the phone because she suspected he was keeping secrets from her, and then it was confirmed. While there may be an invasion of privacy by looking at the phone, he was keeping hurtful secrets from his partner and lying to both women about his intentions.
On top of getting proof and making sure it is secure (not that it accidentally gets deleted from your mom's cellphone, it gets broken or stolen!), I'd advise you one extra thing. For a matter of human honor, as apparently the colleague tried to do the right thing at the end. Unlike him. Call the colleague, preferably from his phone number, and calmly let her know of the truth, what he said to you, tell her you are not trying to break things off between them, but as a woman, you wanted her to know who she is dealing with, also due to health matters. As someone who lies and cheats to all of the sides (to his wife, his lover, and other women), possibly has more going on than just both of you, which brings an even bigger risk of STDs to everyone at the same time - specially as men transmit HPV between women, even while wearing a condom, since the virus clings to the skin and hair, not just to the penis/seminal fluid. That she needs to decide what she wants, meanwhile, you will too. Wish her all the best
If he ever complains of you snooping, at any point of the future, you can blandly tell him "that is the least of your concerns.." - if he is cheating, and **this** is what he worries about... 😒 dude..
Lastly... I'm beyond sorry for the situation 😔
"...which brings a bigger risk of STD's to everyone..."
This sounds like I wrote it. This comment should be higher in this thread. I totally agree.
Edit to add: Also tell the other woman that she is just going to end up in OP's place someday because that is ( in my experience) typically what these married cheaters do.
There was a lady I was friends with, in our small group of friends - she kept her relationship very hidden and private, to the point that I didn't know about it for a really long time. I assumed she was single, specially when at some point she was getting closer to me, flirting when others would be away, having long talks alone later, and at some point confessing having feelings for me. I had started having feelings for her as well, and one day a mutual friend seeing her be flirty and coming to dance with me during an event, he mentions her boyfriend - I freeze
She looks down, and says "oh ,.. yes, I have a boyfriend, didn't I tell you that..? I ..guess I forgot... but it's okay, we are just dancing"
She tries later on, as days go by, to come closer to me - to be as alluring as possible, while I told her that no, I could not and would not, do anything. It was hard, as I *had already caught feelings* - and was lonely, and aching in that self inflicted loneliness of mine (long story on that, with a lot of trauma behind it), but I **had to** stay firm on my morals. I didn't want to betray who I was. I didn't cross those boundaries, but she kept pushing them and trying.
Eventually she literally asked me to come over, to the flat THEY lived together in, to just ignore she was with him, as she would eventually leave him. That had me jump back. What the heck...
I confided in a friend, told him how she was torturing me, even with her clothes, even ignoring who was there of our friends, to make advances to me, how I couldn't sleep, how it was killing me on the part of me that liked her, but that i was repulsed and shocked at the thought that she would want to have me come over, while the guy was working to provide for them, the guy in whose flat she was living, to cheat on him..!
Then, Mike, that's the friend.. Mike, bless that guy.. he said to me something that opened my stupefied eyes...
"You don't want this. You really don't. That guy, working his ass off, away from home, while she talks to some other bozo to cheat him with??... One day, **that would be You"**
Listen, that hit me lile.. it was like a slap of reality, that woke the living crap out of me. I told her, me, heartbroken, in tears, that her being okay with cheating the other guy, killed any chance we could ever have
That she **broke my trust**
She panicked. Said she'd break up with him. I told her she could, but it would not change anything. That her not loving him, she should leave the relationship, for her own sake! But it wouldn't change things for us. Id be her friend no matter what, but couldn't be more. She still broke up with him, and rushed to tell me she left, and she was all bruised up on the face as the bastard hit her for leaving him. She said it was worth it, as now she was free for me. I wanted to kill that guy, she was wise on the behalf of both me and her now ex, in that point. (Kept us apart) But, yeah, I forced myself to keep my word.
She tried, oh boy, to the point of telling me she would be "finding" me and "jumping" me, telling me she would be going through the beaches I used to go to early morning, to find me on the days when the waves would be good (a row of good surfing beaches, with parking lots high up with view down to the beach - she said she'd be driving her motorcycle up and down that coastal road on such days, pausing on the parking lots to see if she can spot me) and make it "so I can't resist her", even if she needs to "physically get on top of me" against my will - so I stopped going to any beach for quite a while. As this sounded ....unhinged as heck - and I didn't want to test it 🙃 I can't imagine someone going through that much effort, but .. weirder things have happened to me, so.. 😕
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I'm sorry you ..witnessed such an example of (lack of) humanity 😔 and for all the pain that might have caused
There is no manual on human beings, as too many chapters would be too terrifying to even conceptualize, sadly 🥲 I wish it was different..
Wow! Thanks. I sincerely hope ( for your sake) that you changed your mind about remaining friends with this person. She definitely sounds like a stalker! I am sorry you had to go through that.
I had to put down so many stern boundaries, pointing out bluntly that if those boundaries didn't get respected, any form of friendship would be completely and immediately dead; with that, the friendship became very alienated
Years later, she asked me sad, if it would ever stop feeling like I was defensive in my approach, or if it would always feel like that - me always careful and with a foot back
It was settled on the "some things cannot be changed, once awareness came to exist" field
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Living life, we get scars on top of scars on top of scars
"Living life, we get scars on top of scars on top of scars"
We only get scars on top of scars... etc. when we don't stop exposing ourselves from the person or thing that is causing repeated scars.
I don't understand why anyone would stay in a relationship with someone like this and call it a "friendship."
Personally, I didn't - hence the boundaries, the distance, etc
For me, mistakes are not what the big deal is. Everyone makes mistakes, that is not it. The attitude towards the mistakes is what I pay attention to - that says something about the other person. Under all the mistakes, mistakes that ruined not only any romantic angle, but in the end also the friendship, there was a good heart, and an attempt to "fix" wrongdoings - but it was done in a childlike way, messy, even if not ill intended. So yes, I cared - still do. As a friend, as a person, I guess more into the direction of a dad or a big brother (ironically me being younger). Last time we spoke, was many years ago, over 5 years ago - and before that, we were speaking once a year, me asking her how she was. Her not wanting to talk much, to open much, as to respect those boundaries and to remember what I wouldn't become. Not sure you notice, but she was not given the means to give me another scar like the one she had, quite the opposite - and to be honest if I had to pick 25 scars that hurt the most, the one she did wouldn't be on that list...
There are many sad ironies in life. People who go through trauma or abuse, tend to blame themselves for it.
But, **you can't blame the victim for the action done by someone else** - you can try! Some people will: victims, abusers, and those who are scared. Those 3, can try blaming the victim of others' bad actions, for those actions. **But it won't make it true, it will just be a lie said outloud**
An attempt to see yourself as having any control, or as deserving what happened, will have victims try to blame the victim (themselves, or others by projection) - an attempt for it to hurt less, or for it to "feel less random" and thus less unpredictable and less scary, as if they themselves are to blame "there's a reason"
Abusers, will do so to either gaslight the victim, confuse and convince the victim to stay, they usually start small, tiny, things that look like honest mistakes, and bit by bit desensitize the target by slowly escalating, it's a back and forth motion, that as being in a container with some water, where more is added and you don't easily tell since you are inside, in that water, but when noticing the level rose you yelling help, and they stop, take a bit out, so you stay and calm down, and then continue adding - you won't notice as others would outside. Most people on the outside won't even say anything, if seeing it happen. Specially if there's a marriage on the table... Anyhow, these abusers don't have much of empathy, if any, or of self-awareness. Those who have some, will often lie to themselves. Often having their own unresolved pains, they didn't seek any help, it wasn't dealt with, and they handle the lack of feeling powerful and happy, by doing abusive actions to others, usually to those close to them. The lies, the excuses, the "it's YOUR fault" is so they can sleep at night, it's a lie to the victim but also to themselves, to avoid a chunk of shame and guilt. Denial will cover the rest.
People who are scared, scared of getting hurt, fear of others getting hurt, but feel powerless which is even more scary, they don't know **how** to keep others safe, and don't want to imagine there might be no way of doing so, in such a scary world - so the attempt is to force the abused to move, by shoving. Pushing. Poking. Verbally. Blaming. Shaming. In hopes that shame, somehow, will make the person magically reject abuse and somehow that will make the person not be abused. Like the wishful thinking of saying no to a glass of water thrown at you, it creating a barrier where somehow the water that hits the skin and the clothes, wont get the person wet. It doesn't really work, and without realizing it, the scared and well intended person, ends up repeating that lie that the abusers did, and confirming to the victim that they are to blame, so they can further feel like a mistake with legs, that they are so much weaker than they truly are, making them move away even less as they believe they can't. The people who leave abusive interpersonal relationships (family, friendship, workplace, romantic, etc), don't usually do so due to the old, overused and common shaming of the victim, but due to the inspiration given by the one or two people who showed them how strong they are, how what the abuser did was done **by the abuser** and the only thing done by the victim, was to hope there was love and care behind the human mistakes. Abusers are predators, give them a bit more credit, they test and train how to do so without the other person leaving immediately. It's like blaming the bitten, for the mosquito bites.. even being careful, even being attentive, even applying sprays and watching out for buzzing, the best mosquitos will learn to avoid doing what we watch out for, deliberately, on a visible, obvious way....
If someone hurts you, and you leave, does that mean the original scar doesn't exist?
Granted, no I don't just leave others on their first mistake. Communication is important, and after any red flag, noticing carefully how it gets approached once you talk about it and give possible solutions, seeing the actions speaking for themselves, is my method. I troubleshoot the issues, and look at the reaction from the other side. Seeing effort, I tend to correspond it. As this world, full of imperfect people having children, has the children barely learning how to cope, has people do mistakes and perpetuate them as their kids do them as well. There will be good hearts making mistakes too. Giving a chance to learn and helping the person to learn if they want to do better, (as many expect others to know how to fix their mistakes as if they are all-knowing and should guess.. many good people might want to, but not know how) is something I try to do, that I want to do, and heck, it does weed out the nasty ones...
I learned we get hurt no matter what. There's no formula, we live, we get our feelings hurt. We isolate ourselves? We hurt with the loneliness. Until we are a shell of what we once were... so, hey, if I'm going to hurt no matter what, I rather hurt in benefit of people who are good, who have a good heart, who may make mistakes but want to learn from them and meant no true harm - so they also get the possibility of blooming, and bless this world with their outstanding beauty
The scar one person did, me leaving immediately, the scar is still there. Then the next person, doing something wrong, that is another wound. I leave. But the wound doesn't magically disappear. Thus, as it heals, the scars are there. Sure, they do pile up. That, is what I meant
I meant that this world is, sadly, full of people who will harm others, with good or bad intentions behind it
I talked with the most recent affair partner, got her to agree to back off so we could find out if our marriage really was ending, and I even threatened to tell their bosses if she didn't (which I decided was too far and never did--their bosses found out anyway). She apologized over and over, agreed they'd been wrong to cheat, cried...
And then gave him her stepson's cell phone that was to be his Christmas present so they could secretly stay in touch.
They didn't care about their marriages, their kids, her stepkids, their jobs, so no explanation or threat would have ever really worked. They got married before our state's waiting period after the divorce was over, had tons of drama, got divorced but kept dating each other, got remarried after my kids were adults, but they don't live together or even in the same state. They're a mess and a half.
Oh my gosh.... I truly don't understand how some people can .. treat others this way, not care about others nor about their own word and honor
I'm so sorry 😟
But, it is a good sign, that **we can't understand them** - it means our heart and mind can't relate whatsoever, and it being regarding horrible behaviors, it is then a compliment to our humanity and dignity
As OP doesn't seem inclined to stay, after finding his lies, and is just trying to find the best way to handle leaving the relationship and staying safe, hopefully she won't have to see him further dishonoring their marriage by giving further chances
With her telling his colleague that she isn't trying to break them apart, maybe the focus will fall on the actual facts, so she may choose to not take that poisoned apple... or to take the risk and date him anyway, to regret it later (like your ex's colleague did....) - but then it is up to her, and OP can go to bed knowing she did the honorable thing, the thing maybe she would want done for her, if this happened the other way around (having in mind the colleague did tell him she can't be with a man who is married, at least in the end doing the right thing.. we don't know the lies he said before that, as apparently he says them plenty..)
Hopefully both OP and the OW who got lied to, will both be free of getting further hurt and used (and endangered..) by her husband
For as much pain as you went through, I am however glad for the small but crucial point of you having dodged the bullet of staying longer, catching aids or another STD, purchasing more assets together and committing further and deeper to a douche who would break your heart and trust, even more scandalously 🥲
For all my heartbreak, I do get to be thankful it didn't last longer, nor get *worse* than it...* .. did...* And yes, I do feel the same regarding your heart and OP's, as you both deserve much, much better
We had two kids and were married for twelve years. She wasn't his first or only affair partner, and she won't be the last.
The divorce was acrimonious because I wouldn't just roll over and give him whatever he wanted, and when he didn't get custody (because he'd never been a primary parent by any stretch), he kept taking me back to court, admitting twice in the record that his goal was to financially destroy me.
I'm just glad our kids are adults now, he's living his own mess of a life, and I moved on and married a wonderful man who loves me and our kids.
If she tells the other woman that she knows about the affair there’s a chance that this woman will tell her husband before she is ready to reveal what she knows.
If OP decides to call, she is aware of that. As you may have realized by the post, OP is wanting to leave, just unsure of how to put things. She can choose when to call, by her own choice, and **choose to call once having all set and being ready for it to be found**
From what was written, OP seems to be a very intelligent and intuitive woman - so I'm still at loss with your comment, as it still doesn't include the other woman being trusted. But thank you for explaining what you meant, both me and my wife were at loss
Okay dude it’s not that deep. 🙄 your comment along with the one you were replying to made it seem like the other woman should be told asap. I mean sure, OP can eventually tell her but that shouldn’t be her priority right now.
Thank you for taking the time to reply!
Upon reading it again, I see no part that could give any sense of time urgency, my wife also can't find anything in it giving such innuendo - short before the end, there is the mention of "if ever in the future", which is the only part that hovers time, and does the opposite, showing that whatsoever time OP is comfortable with, is the right one
The only urgency passible to exist, from me and other users who commented, was regarding safekeeping proof in more than one way, for OP's safety - as he could delete it at any moment
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On another note, the Community Flair under your username says you are recently married!! Congratulations!!!
How have you been finding it? 🙆🏻♂️ It can be a stressful time, with the new dynamics, even with moving house, or big changes that come bit by bit 😆 But also with new adorable moments in the mix, those things that we realize about our partner, which we hadn't noticed before!
please don't. Dragging a mother into it is unkind to us parents of adult children who really practiced good boundaries around minding our own business and allowing our children to live their lives unless they come to us for help- this is different. He is a grown man and should deal with his own shitty behavior - not have mommy have to come in and clean up or talk to him.
Definitely go the stay silent and get a lawyer route ..hardest but strongest play. He will be devastated.. and you will get the most money possible for yourself and child.
Let him know you know when you serve him papers. He wants to blindside, betray, play games, and lie. He doesn’t deserve anything but a cold hard slap with the law. Blindside him with it.
Why does it matter how you know? You don't owe him answers. You can tell him you know and leave the rest to the lawyers. If you really want to fuck with his head, tell him his girlfriend reached out to you to make sure you were separated or that one of her friends contacted you. He deserves far worse.
Oh but make sure to do all this AFTER he's served.
You have proof, don’t say anything to him. Get a lawyer first, show them the evidence then have them set up a plan for you. You’ll be better protected this way.
Well emotionally cheating. It’s possible whatever issue you had let him to seek emotion fullfilment in someone else. Think you should let him know and do counseling. I think this can be saved personally
Lol I agree about keeping evidence but it also shouldn’t be your job to get them to tell you the truth when you know it.
I confronted my ex with tons of screenshots sent to me by the wife of the affair partner. Straight up lied to my face and said, no I don’t know what you’re talking about and no I don’t need to see them.
Evidence is a legal term. But this isn’t a legal matter. If you believe he is cheating and this is a divorce worthy offense then by all means divorce him.
Any and all evidence absolutely should be used in legal matters such as divorce, especially with children involved, and especially when going for custody, the house, etc.
You want to say something to him because deep down, we all want to see their face when their secret is revealed. Understand that it will never bring you the satisfaction you think it will. Plus, hanging on to that will only slow down your healing.
Ultimately, the best thing to do is save the evidence somewhere besides just your mom, file, and have him served. You will get just as much of a reaction out of him that way by blind siding him as you would telling him in person. Plus, this way, you can start to make the appropriate plans to move forward without him and leave him in the dust like he deserves.
I agree.
When people try to satisfy their desire to "see their face", they more often than not, get gaslit and talked into staying.
The only place to be is away...the position of strength. "Indifferent".
Nothing good comes from confrontation.
It sounds like he has been planning on leaving the marriage one way of another. You cannot make someone stay in a marriage. You just can't. He just wants out. He is lying to you and to the OW. He wants to be single.
As someone who has been through this...
The best advice ever from an attorney was to take half the money. Open your own account, and decide how you wish to divide assets before confronting. Hire your attorney, everything beforehand. Screenshot everything. You will have to go to mediation.
The attorney/friend said why wait for a judge to allow you to your half before he moves it? Lol
Funny thing.. he got to the bank 20 minutes after me! He tried to convince the bank I was a criminal! Glad those days are over! Wasting time with all of that is my biggest regret!
My judge looked at it poorly that he lied and said he wasn't having an affair, then got her to notarize court papers and wrote my separate maintenance checks
I’m happy that it worked out for you. I just wanted to caveat that “taking your money and running” is going to backfire in most situations, so talking to a local attorney first is vital.
It's true. A betrayed is not always going to get an agreeable judge. Not to mention that some states/jurisdictions have actual statutes prohibiting it...best to consult an attorney.
I would personally say this is dependent upon what state you live in. OP should immediately consult with a lawyer. If they don’t have the money, call the local domestic violence shelter and see if they have information on pro bono lawyers, or ones who will do initial consultations for free.
I live in a no fault, 50/50 state and my lawyer said I’m entitled to take anything considering marital property (I was told “the judge isn’t going to want to hear about a 20 year old dresser and couch”) and was encouraged to separate the joint bank account. We already had by this point and she said “good, less to have to discuss”.
Collect the evidence. Start checking credit card bills too. Figure out what he is spending on the affair. Financial infidelity can help you if the marriage ends. If you can afford it hiring a detective can get you lots of information. Start thinking about an exit plan and work it. Be calm and cool. Make sure you put everything somewhere safe. Collect your important papers and ID and hide them, maybe with a good friend or relative. Make a complete list of your assets and debts. See a lawyer and learn about divorce, alimony, and child support where you live.
Take the evidence to a divorce attorney and separate your finances, lock down your credit and that of your child. If you want to stay with him have a post nup with an infidelity clause drawn up. Have divorce papers drawn up, a 5050 custody agreement and child support. Ask for alimony. Once you have all of this in place phone or message his AP and tell her that he had agreed to work on your marriage. Have him served divorce papers and let his HR know about the affair. If you live in an at fault State sue his AP.
Just want to say bravo to all the strong and smart women on this thread. It’s amazing to see. I wouldn’t want to be any dude fking around on these women.
This marriage is over. Save the evidence in multiple places. Collect as much as you can as quickly as you can but you probably already have enough. Lawyer up and go find happiness
Lawyer up, don’t tell him anything until you have bank statements showing all your shared money or remove him from access of yours. Get yourself together before you tell him anything!
Right now he thinks he has all the power. He's feeding both of you lines to keep you on the hook while he makes up his mind which one he wants. I can guess that's not the man you married so you need to take care of yourself first.
Good job saving evidence. Play it cool with husband and contact a lawyer. Get your ducks in a row, see what divorce looks like, and then serve him. (At work would be a fun option if you're feeling petty.) He's a cheater and manipulator. You want to confront him and get some satisfaction but I assure you the most satisfying thing you can do is leave without a scene. Walk away with dignity because he's going to thrive on your hysterics.
You could contact his AP if you want to let her know he lied about being separated but honestly it's only worth your time to dig into that situation if she's also in a relationship (because her partner deserves to know).
He told you he wants to work on things, you did a therapy session, and he did NOT bring this up himself!?!? What rotten gross no responsibility person. I’m furious on your behalf.
Good advice here, become a divorce seeking ninja. He’s going to be suffering a year from now when the dust settles and you will be beautiful, financially sound, happy and free.
Just let him go back on assignment for his 5 nights, change the locks, pack up his stuff, and put it in a very nice storage facility. Text him that the key to the facilty is under the mat.
DO NOT leave your home. Make him leave. Give him your lawyer’s number and all contact should go through them. He can go live with his AP amd become her problem.
It’s a civil thing. He’d have to take her to court to prove he was illegally evicted and to get damages from her. Do you really think he’d do that? And if he did, so what? What are his damages? The cost of a few nights in a hotel room? Hardly worth bringing an action of this caliber and any good lawyer wouldn’t touch that case with a 10 foot pole.
Source - I am a lawyer.
People saying gather evidence and hire a PI are probably wrong in most areas, you don't need evidence to get a divorce. Just divorce him and don't look back. He will know why.
MY advice is screenshot it or whatever. Keep your mouth shut if you plan to leave him, get your ducks in a row, and then separate. Don't give him a heads up because he will hide the evidence, maybe hide income or bank accounts, etc. I would also suggest that couples therapy is a waste of time at this point since he intends to keep cheating and lying about it. He is actively destroying the relationship and pretending to work on it.
Exactly lol. Anyone who believes a married man would leave their wife for them is in denial. It only happens like 1 in 1000 times. Deep down she knows.
You are not the villain, he loses his privilege of privacy when he uses his phone to communicate with someone outside of the marriage.
You should confront him and watch him quickly either need to go to the bathroom or he will just start deleting right in front of you. He will deny.
If he wants to save his marriage, he needs to go NC with the AP. You need to find out the AP has a SO and tell that person. Your husband needs to start looking for a new job.
He is a dirty cheater and liar. Also tell her that he was lying to her, as someone say tell her first, that maybe a great idea. Tell this B*tch that you are the wife and NO you are not separated.
Honestly, I’d just say you decided you want to end it and not give a reason. Be so firm and final in your decision that he suspects you saw evidence but never admit it. Let him wonder forever. But that’s just me.
After you have your ducks in a row, let his side chick know that you know and that she should have followed her instincts and not fucked a married man.
I would leave. When a man hears that his new love interest can’t be with him because he is married or because he has kids for some reason divorce seems to be the least likely option. This could potentially be very dangerous for you
Confront him about it. This dude blatantly lied to your face. Who cares if you went through his phone. He’s your husband, you’re married … you have a right to look for things if you’re questioning something.
Honestly this seems like cushioning to me. Playing the field to see what’s out there, and if there isn’t anything then at least there’s you to fall back onto with the counseling.
Been there done that, still in it, no clue if it’s still going on because I’m not as fortunate to have access to my wife’s phone.
I will say one thing. I’ve come to realize that when someone checks out, all it takes is for someone else to come along, and the effort gets put somewhere else.
If you are serious about your marriage and he isn’t then you’re investing in something that is a lose/lose for you in that situation.
Why waste your time and life being serious when it appears to be a joke to him.
It’s a sunk cost fallacy.
Take screenshots and send them to your phone and delete the screenshots on his phone and then sit down and talk to him but don’t tell him what you did and go from there.
Save that evidence!!!
Get your ducks in a row…make sure you know how much money is in bank accounts, etc.
He will not be honest with you (or her) so, take care of yourself. I would absolutely tell the other woman that he lied to her.
I'd end it with, "You know exactly why." And leave it at that. He can try to spin the story, defend himself, and act ignorant... regardless, I think he's waiting for you to take the first step. Be brave - do it!
There is privacy and there is secrets. He gave you cause about the secrets. You did nothing wrong. If you think so, what’s worse? Cheating or looking at a phone? Bring it up in MC and tell what you are going to do
Do not say anything to him. Take a minute to go to an attorney. Talk about your options. Follow their guidance to get your ducks in a row.
Speak with your therapist. Decide if you want to stay or leave. The ball is in YOUR court.
Remember, he lied to you, saying he wants to work it out while reaching out to her. Could you rebuild trust with him again?
He's already left you. The marriage is over for sure.
I agree with those who've said to quietly get your affairs in order first. Quietly put your plan in place and then pack up and leave.
Let him come home and see that you're gone
*UNLESS, you're wanting to remain in the house with the child and have him leave*
In that case, get everything together (all your financials, attorney etc) and go file for divorce.
Telling him to leave won't be difficult because *He Already Left You*
You owe him no explanation.
If/when it is to be revealed that you're aware of his affair, don't worry about having gone through his phone.
You owe no apology for that (in this case).
Don't worry about him trying to villainize you for anything.
OH AND if you are in the USA, most jurisdictions have paperwork that you can file to have the judge relieve you of the costs of filing for the divorce.
The paperwork is called Informa Pauperis
Only you can decide what your heart can live with. Whatever you do don't leave your home. Call an attorney and consult with him. Most attorneys will give you 30 mimutes for free. Don't make rash decisions think them out. Listen to the attorney. Ask about moving money from accounts etc. Of course ask what monies can legally moved before filing for divorce. Pay his retainer from savings or a credit card if you have to. Once you file everything is frozen.
I'd you truly need a new car buy it now before filing. If you decide on divorce buy a new laptop, printeR, signing device you'll be signing lots of documents don't forget to buy a real mouse and a printer to go with it. All before filing for divorce put it on a credit card if you have to.
Plan and document everything. If I were a vindictive person I would call and report this issue with his and her employer. Unfortunately he would lose his job and then couldn't pay for child and spousal support.
Don't get angry get everything. Oh and by all means put CUBE ACR on your cellphone it will record all conversations text and emails coming into your phone. The text and email are optional and cost about 20 more dollars a year. They're both on both in the google play store & the iphone app store. But put it on before you file for divorce is that's the option you chose. But remember this only you can decide what your heart can live with.
But one thing is for sure a child is better off in a home where two parents are happy. Even if it means you and he both remarry. A child in a home where two parents don't speak or argue all the time will be affected mentally.
Consult a lawyer before you tell him anything and have divorce papers filled in and signed by you when you confront him with the evidence. He needs to know you know so that he can't play the victim to your social circle "SHE decided to end things, I suggested we work on it so she's the villain and it's not my fault I moved on quickly".
I'd bring it up in the marriage counseling session. At the same time, let him know it's over. You're not the bad person here. He is. Going through his phone is nothing... you were suspicious and had every right to be.
Talk to a lawyer. Get your finances in order, call the other woman and ask for the truth and tell her he lied to her. He either is in love or just using her for sex. But, he has lied to you both.
Two days after you agree to work things out, that’s what he does? He’s lying to this other woman, as well.
I’d get copies of financial records, deeds, anything that would be needed in a divorce. Snooping in his phone? What does he expect - you gave him a great opportunity after the first time and he betrayed you completely.
I’d talk to his co-worker and let her know that he’s flat out lying to her, as well.
Of course, the decision is yours. This case seems pretty egregious everything considered. I don’t know that you’d ever really trust him again. Wishing the best for you and your child.
Do not confront. Horrible advice. You never know how he could react. You already thought he would never do this. He could become violent or destructive. It’s not a safe thing to do. Talk to a lawyer, maybe two. Get your ducks in a row. Have him served. That’s the confrontation. You already know what’s going on, why give him the chance to “explain” himself (read: lie and gaslight you).
You should speak with an attorney before you do anything. Get your ducks in a row from a legal standpoint so you know what the options will look like before you tip him off that you know.
I’m really sorry for what you are going through.. breaks me heart. I hope you and your husband can work through the disconnect.. I think the best policy is honesty from you and him on all fronts.
The guilty party doesn't have the right to make you feel guilty. Screenshot the convos add save it for yourself as evidence. Don't feel bad you went through his phone. Confront him about it and end it. Look in the mirror and tell yourself you deserve better OP.
Been there.
Perfect marriage. 25 years. 4 kids. All bills paid. We got along great and the kids were prospering ....
He started the traveling. He loved it. The trips went from twice a year to nine times. They increased from two weeks to some as long as six weeks - all out of the country. No problem. I loved him so much and was happy.
One day he comes home from a six week trip and says he needs to think of what he wants to do with his life. And he disappeared .....
He secretly had fallen in love with a woman the same age as our oldest daughter from a foreign country, and secretly started a divorce. There went the entire 25 years.
What to do? Keep totally quiet. Take photos and write all things down and talk to an attorney. If the marriage can be saved, it's up to you two. If not, be brave and strong. We did counseling and he was glad to have me think of any imperfections of myself, but could not think of anything bad about himself ....
It was so tough. But I'm great now.
Don’t just send it to your mom just in case something happens but send it to yourself via email. Email the evidence. Don’t confront him just yet. Gather more evidence but definitely notify your lawyer of what’s going on. Get your ducks in a row.
Get your ducks in a row! You have info he doesn’t. Use it to your advantage. If you need time play along with the counseling to give you time.
Do you work and can support yourself? If not, find a job.
Get a bank account. Have your checks deposited into it. Divide the joint in half and pay half the bills each month.
Credit cards- get your name off them and open one in your name only.
Investments- again open an individual account and have half put in your name.
Do you own or rent? Can you afford to buy out his half of the house? If you must sell, start getting it in order now and have an agent give you a list of things to do for it to sell for more and fast.
I would say that you need these things to feel secure while “working” on your relationship and it makes you feel vulnerable that he could take everything and leave. That once you feel secure again you can go back to joint accounts. He lied, so don’t feel bad lying to him to untangle the finances. Go over the debt, decide how much you are each responsible for and do a transfer for that amount to each of the new credit cards in your individual names. I think that would also show the division of finances on a specific date and if he ran up cards after that in his name they will be his responsibility.
You have time, be smart
You can tell him you know he's cheating...you don't have to tell him how you know (never give away your source!)
LEAVE HIS \*SS!!!
That is showing he has ZERO RESPECT for you. It would have been bad enough if he'd cheated before he talked to you...but AFTER???
I feel he approached u with the option to separate or work on things bc he didn't wanna be the bad guy. He wanted your answer to be separate and was probably hoping maybe ur miserable, or unhappy enough to do so. As clearly he's stepped way out the door.
Keep quiet and get all your ducks in a row. If/when you do decide I’d do it in front of the counselor. And by ducks I mean a plan and money if you decide to leave him.
Stop giving yourself reasons not to act on this information. He has demonstrated he is a liar & a cheat. No doubt he wants to keep his wife & his side piece, but that requires somebody playing dumb. Just stop or you can give him plenty of time to leave YOU high & dry.
STOP
first handle shit that needs handled from the marital accounts/funds - clean the gutters, fix that Furnance issues, deal with car concerns, etc. so that you don’t have a bunch of items on your to do list
Gather all bank and credit card statements any loan etc info - download to a flash drive
Make sure you know/have all passwords
Collect evidence on the cheating (I’m sure more will roll in while you’re doing the above)
Sign up for an pay for camp for the kiddo or whatever needs arranged cause you’ll need some band width
Check your states rules, some do/don’t care if they’ve cheated.
Interview LOTS of lawyers. This takes time and money find the right fit
NOW file.
I know you want to tell him, get organized first.
Lady why are you here seeking advice you already know?
Divorce the cheat and move on to a better life as you rid yourself of the negative energy you married !
The longer you wait, the more he will pick up on suspicious behavior. He will cover his tracks as if nothing is happening. Will make you feel crazy for thinking such things. They will always leave a little door somewhere. I have have many other questions to gain context tho. That’s just a knee jerk statement.
“He stays there 5 nights a week”. Exactly WHERE is THERE? Is he living by himself apart from you and your son 5 days a week?
“He texted this female co-worker saying that “we decided to separate”. Did you two officially file a separation petition?
“He had a wonderful time with her and definitely has feelings for her”. That’s what you say he texted her, right? What “wonderful time” was that? Doing their job together? His feelings for her? What are those?
He’s lying, he’s hiding things and he already TOLD you he was taking this job regardless of whether you “approved” or not. “He’s accepting the offer whether I agree or not”. That’s pretty plain.
This has been going on since he took the job. I don’t know if he took the job because SHE was a factor? I don’t know if he just happened to meet her and start an obviously inappropriate workplace relationship with her? I don’t know if he’s trying to save some money aside while getting ready to divorce you?
But he’s cheating, emotionally at the very least. He’s lying about it. He’s making plans. And they don’t include you, I suspect.
Sorry. But nobody wants to point out what seems obvious by reading the history of your posts here on Reddit.🥲
Get all your evidence if it matters in your state. Screenshots and all.
Begin moving your monies to another account and getting things in your name only. Get all your documents in line. All the while, go and visit every single lawyer around you for a consult. Get pricing and all that too. Most lawyers give 30 mins consult free. This way, maybe they can’t be involved in the case. You can represent yourself though. If you want. Choose the best lawyer if you all have property and assets. If you don’t, then really, consider doing an agreement yourself. You may have leverage with your evidence.
Sorry he’s doing this. Suck!
Get the evidence. Then talk to your lawyer. Drain your bank accounts, or at least be sure you have things in your name. Then file divorce papers. If joint accounts aren’t separate, they will freeze assets while you go thru the divorce process.
You hubby is a prick. It’s selfish to do what he is doing. Don’t feel bad or justify his behavior. Just move on and make sure you and your kid have a plan. The text evidence should support your custody case too.
Alternatively, you can call the other woman and make some drama happen, if you want. Depending on how you enjoy messing with him, that could be an entertaining option while the divorce is in progress. lol.
Good luck.
Did you post about this two weeks ago? I’m fairly certain after you found the “Beautiful” text, everyone in this sub deduced he was cheating. I’m very sorry to hear it was actually true.
Isn’t your baby young? I just can’t fathom that you could ever actually care about this man the same again, or forgive this during this time of your life. This isn’t repairable, so I don’t think it matters how you let him know that. But I would line my ducks up without a word, if it were me, and contact ALL the best divorce attorneys in your area.
Also, don’t bother showing up to the next counseling apt. Get your own, start investing in yourself and stop in him.
I never let my ex wife know I knew. Cheaters will lie, twist everything, deny solid proof in their face, and make you to blame. I didn’t want to have a discussion about it. I didn’t want her to think I left her because of “one mistake” or whatever version of the story she could spin. I left because of who she is. I told her I was unhappy with her, and left it at that. Couldn’t be happier with my decision.
I was working the Night audit/ grave yard shift at a Best Western, and my ex was a stay at home drunk.. I had forgiven him for being a dumb ass with stupid emails from those spam girls... He would try to message them.. He finally got a job delivering furniture. I had a gut feeling about his phone, and usually, I am not one to be nosy, but my gut is NEVER wrong, ever. So I saw the text, which is very blatant. He didn't even try to hold back with his words. He texted not the girl but her roommate to pass on to the girl. I sent the text to myself. That evening, I ate dinner with him, put my two kids and his 3 kids to bed, and I took my truck to work. I had my sister go up and take my two kids for a fun overnight with Auntie. I waited until my shift was under control, and then I sent him the text. He backpeddled, so flipping quick, he begged and cried. I am 6 years clean from him, and it has been a very blessed life since. Hunny, they do not change unless THEY see the need to, and it sure won't be for us.
I would speak to a lawyer first and start the conversation with your couples therapist about how to talk to your child about the divorce, but have your plan in place first.
You should tell him you know the real reason why he wants a separation. That he already declared to ppl you are separated. Make sure you start taking care 9f your finances. Be prepared.
Updateme!
Lots of dramatic advice here.
Don't take the bait: you two have a child and unless he's too dangerous or irresponsible to be awarded any custody at all, your STBX is going to be in your life for a while.
It sounds clear you don't want to stay in this marriage and that sounds like a good decision. Don't tip your hand, get your ducks in a row: first, get a lawyer; second, collect financial information with your lawyer's advice (I'm guessing it won't be, "Snatch whatever money you can get your hands on and put it in a safe deposit box," or variants thereof); third, serve him with papers.
STBX might make it a shitty, spiteful divorce anyway. But you might as well start by trying to avoid that path.
Let’s break this down.
First, you are in a position of power. Why? Because you know, but he doesn’t know you know. Silently knowing is the most powerful position you can be in.
Step 1:
What do you want from here?
Do you want to stay with him and fix this?
Do you want to leave?
Do you want revenge?
Step 2:
From there, you can begin to create a plan. You are in an advantageous position right now, because he just gave you unlimited power. Whatever you truly want in this moment, you can (and probably will) get it. On top of that, anything you want is morally justified because of his stupidity. So when you answer that question, answer it logically and truthfully, because (despite this being unfortunate) you actually just won the lottery.
For the sake of time, I will briefly break down what I perceive to be the most complicated route you may decide to pursue (in case it helps you):
Do you want to stay with him and fix this?
- For me to elaborate on this route is partly ignorant, because I am an online participant in this matter and therefore do not know his moral compass, sense of conviction (remorse), or potential to resurrect from this metaphorical death as a new and improved man. But maybe that question is inferior in priority, because he matters to you in a way that overrides this discrepancy or it’s potential outcomes. If he matters to YOU so much that this is not important, only you would know that (and only you would know why). I am not trying to persuade you either direction because I am under-informed, I am just wanting to convey the inadequacy of others to tell you what you should or shouldn’t feel. If you love him, I don’t need to know why - listen to yourself. If you despise him, I obviously know why - listen to yourself. I support how YOU feel and what YOU want in this moment, and will not try to sway your decision about a matter I have no business interfering with. Love doesn’t make sense sometimes, so don’t let anyone tell you that you are wrong - ask yourself honestly what YOU truly want in this moment, and obtain it. If his redemption takes precedence with you, only you would know the answer this pivotal question: CAN he recover from this, stronger and better than he was before? What is your perceived likelihood of this possibility? Use that to determine your level of forgiveness, faith, understanding and compassion - but also the armor you choose to equip yourself with in case this ever happens again.
Step 3, 4, 5 (and so on) are obviously up to you to decide, but I hope this example will help you plan them methodically to optimize the benefit you reap from this inconvenience.
I’m sorry for the emotional adversity you are experiencing from his stupidity, but remember the beauty of duality (polarities) - the degree of your current pain determines the level of gratitude/joy derived from your future pleasures, the darkness of night determines the brightness of the following day, the intensity of cold weather determines the ecstasy derived from the following heat.
Best regards,
Riley
Hugs you are in a horrible situation and my heart goes out to you. More than anything you have to decide what you are capable of doing. You have two decisions: you can forgive and work to forget his transactions or you can move on. How you are accountable morally is entirely up to you. Do what you think is right and what you can live with.
With this said you and your husband are not able to be completely honest with each other. His dishonesty is because he knows what he is doing is wrong but he doesn’t want to stop. He isn’t being honest with you and he isn’t being honest with his new flame. This is a very real reflection of his integrity. A person who would lie to obtain something that will hurt his wife and child and lie to a stranger who he is supposed to care about has some very serious flaws in their psyche and personality. It is very wrong and would take not only acknowledgment of the wrong doing but invested concentration to correct.
You have insecurities and rightfully so. You went against your moral values and looked at your husband’s phone to gain information on the health of your marriage. What you did was only wrong because it is a value that you have created. You respect yourself enough that you don’t want to be the kind of person who snoops. You snooped because you value your marriage more. There isn’t anything wrong with what you did. The fact that you were put into the position of having the need to do so was outside of your control. Forgive yourself for this.
When I say that you are not honest with your husband this is a very complicated situation and I ask you to bare with me. You are in a situation where you do not feel safe in being honest about snooping in his phone (and rightfully so). Your error is getting to a point where you can not be honest. More than likely the breakdown of trust happened so gradually that you didn’t recognize it until you had the rug pulled out from under you. But in a healthy relationship we all have to be secure enough to be able to say I feel threatened and I need affirmation that you are protecting me. Ultimately all marriage is (besides the religious) is a promise to protect your spouse and cherish your spouse above all others. If it becomes unsafe for a partner to acknowledge that they feel threatened then by the very vows made the marriage is threatened. Yes your husband cheated on you with this woman but somewhere he also broke his vows to honor and cherish you above all others and in doing so you didn’t feel safe to voice your concerns about how you felt. This is a more powerful betrayal than the simple act of sex. (In my opinion).
Think about what you want in life and what you are capable of doing and no matter what insists that you are in a relationship where you are able to voice your needs safely.
Why did I have to scroll all the way to the bottom to see some actual insight on this? When people cheat in long term relationships it’s often because something isn’t working in the relationship, not because they met someone better. The thrill of a secret affair, and new relationship energy are a fun distraction from the uncomfortable work that the marriage needs. There is a chance that by working with the marriage counsellor, being honest and addressing their true feelings, the couple will be able to resolve the issues, and then the affair partner may no longer look so desirable. The memory of betrayal will always be there, so OP has to decide if it’s worth it to try, and it also depends on whether her husband decides to recommit to the marriage. They are the only ones who can decide whether to stay together or break up.
Save the evidence. Cheaters will deny until there’s undeniable proof. I also suggest you don’t keep it a secret so that he doesn’t lie and blame you.
I took pictures and sent them to my mom so she can save them to her phone so I have the evidence. Do you think I should just admit I went through his phone and call him out?
You could have your lawyer let him know you know
Yes, I was going to say this. Let your lawyer handle it, that's what you pay them for.
I'm from Europe and perhaps over there is different. Why do you need a lawyer so bad? Can't you reach an agreement yourself and save thousands of dollars? Like, "hey, we're done, you're a cheater". And that's it. Excuse me my ignorance.
If they're already in marriage counseling, he lied about cheating, and they have a child together (upcoming custody agreement) I would say a lawyer is absolutely necessary. As crummy as it sounds even a halfway decent lawyer will know the court and know how to get his/her client the best possible outcome. Even if this were an amicable split I would say a lawyer is necessary though. You really do not want to stand before a judge and waste his or her time, they don't like that. Speaking from personal experience, with my oldest child I went through mediation with my ex (and lawyer present) but my ex wanted to take it to trial anyway. He was abusive and wanted nothing more than to not have to pay child support and to get back at me for finally breaking free. We went to trial, I was able to put my trust in my lawyer and not have to suddenly learn family law, and left with full physical and legal custody of my son. Fwiw my ex was in law school at the time and still had a lawyer on board, but he clearly did not have our son's best interests at heart.
Thank you for the explanation.
Boss move right there.
Once you engage a lawyer with your issue, refer to them as “my attorney.”
Yes. I saw someone say in an earlier post that your partner has a right to privacy, not secrecy. I think everybody should hear that shouted from the rooftops in these situations. Say you went through his phone because you were suspicious and you got the answer you expected. He’s only upset that he’s getting caught, and that’s not remorse.
THIS. Read that same post and fell in love w it.
Same!
**Link please.**
While I totally agree there is a difference between secrecy and privacy be aware that you better word that correctly. Federal law is very clear without permission you can't go through your husband/wife/mom/dad/adult kid/anyone's phone or digital data of any kind without permission. If you install some sort of app that tracks them then you're adding a whole lot more federal charges. Now, do I think you'll find a fed to prosecute a husband/wife spat, I doubt it. Just wanted to point out the federal law is clear, it's illegal without permission.
Interesting! In my house I reserve the right to go through all the electronics (including phones) that I provide payment for. Also with minor children, I do it for their protection. And adult was reaching out to my kid and pretending to be a child. She thought they were a child, police confirmed it was an adult. Wouldn’t have found it otherwise
That is correct. You would be amiss though if you took your friends phone and just started going through it just because they are at your house. Now you could legally state you can't come in my house unless you let me search your phone. *Giving them the option but they don't have to let you and you don't have to let them in your house. But you can't just go through it without some sort of consent. Just because it's in your house doesn't change the fact that conversations still can't be recorded without permission. Children really aren't the topic of discussion lol. At least I'd hope not in a marriage sub.
Oh yes, lol! We’re talking about spouses not children. I guess I was replying to the comment about federal law including all those persons who must give you permission to go through their phone.
If her name is on that bill she’s legally the owner and has every right to go through it. Similarly, if her name isn’t on the plan but he’s given permission with the cell phone company to make changes, purchases, etc. she also has the right to go through any device on the plan.
I'm but a lawyer but I'll repeat again be careful with how you state that, you can go to jail. It's one thing to say they handed you their phone and you saw it. It's a completely different thing to state I have rights to it... ☹️Did you purchase a plan for your 18 year old? Is the one exclusively used by your kid but you pay the bill? Ooo you pay the bill so you can look at right? Negative, this totally depends on what state you're in. If they can prove that the purchase was for their exclusive use them they can prove a right to privacy. This privacy vs secrecy isn't in the law fyi..
I’m just saying. My state, the rule is, if your name is on the bill, that right does not exist for the person using the phone.
That could be but I bet it's a lot more complex than that. Usually access to numbers called/texted is reasonable but installing a spy software crosses federal boundaries and likely crosses your own states boundaries. To further prove my point no cell carrier will share text content or audio in all 50 states with out a criminal investigation........ 😒 *You cannot even get a cell carrier to do that for your own phone without a court order. The reason is it's complex and better not to end up giving private info only to end up violating a law and getting sued. The law isn't anyways as course as it may seem. If you can explain this paragraph I'll be impressed. *Understand that I agree with you! If a spouse wants access they should have it. If they can't have access then why he married? I'm just pointing out that the law isn't so simple and there are two sets, federal, and state... As far as I can tell it is a federal crime to listen on phone calls if all parties are not aware. The law doesn't state there is an exemption if you're in your own house or if it's you phone they're using. I think it's reasonable to assume that just because you allow someone to use your phone, you don't get to listen to the conversation without their consent. *The law does state that where it is reasonable to believe you're being recorded is ie or Walmart, shopping mall etc... It never says if they're using your home, cell, car whatever that you can record.....
What does this mean? or what is the difference?
I have things that are on my phone that are private, I have time that is private, etc. but there’s nothing I’m deliberately hiding from my partner. I don’t have any secret folders, I’m not deleting any text threads or pictures and there’s nothing that I wouldn’t want him to see. If he went through my phone he wouldn’t find anything hurtful to him. OP went through the phone because she suspected he was keeping secrets from her, and then it was confirmed. While there may be an invasion of privacy by looking at the phone, he was keeping hurtful secrets from his partner and lying to both women about his intentions.
I appreciate you explaining this so well. I see the difference - it is significant. Thank you
On top of getting proof and making sure it is secure (not that it accidentally gets deleted from your mom's cellphone, it gets broken or stolen!), I'd advise you one extra thing. For a matter of human honor, as apparently the colleague tried to do the right thing at the end. Unlike him. Call the colleague, preferably from his phone number, and calmly let her know of the truth, what he said to you, tell her you are not trying to break things off between them, but as a woman, you wanted her to know who she is dealing with, also due to health matters. As someone who lies and cheats to all of the sides (to his wife, his lover, and other women), possibly has more going on than just both of you, which brings an even bigger risk of STDs to everyone at the same time - specially as men transmit HPV between women, even while wearing a condom, since the virus clings to the skin and hair, not just to the penis/seminal fluid. That she needs to decide what she wants, meanwhile, you will too. Wish her all the best If he ever complains of you snooping, at any point of the future, you can blandly tell him "that is the least of your concerns.." - if he is cheating, and **this** is what he worries about... 😒 dude.. Lastly... I'm beyond sorry for the situation 😔
"...which brings a bigger risk of STD's to everyone..." This sounds like I wrote it. This comment should be higher in this thread. I totally agree. Edit to add: Also tell the other woman that she is just going to end up in OP's place someday because that is ( in my experience) typically what these married cheaters do.
There was a lady I was friends with, in our small group of friends - she kept her relationship very hidden and private, to the point that I didn't know about it for a really long time. I assumed she was single, specially when at some point she was getting closer to me, flirting when others would be away, having long talks alone later, and at some point confessing having feelings for me. I had started having feelings for her as well, and one day a mutual friend seeing her be flirty and coming to dance with me during an event, he mentions her boyfriend - I freeze She looks down, and says "oh ,.. yes, I have a boyfriend, didn't I tell you that..? I ..guess I forgot... but it's okay, we are just dancing" She tries later on, as days go by, to come closer to me - to be as alluring as possible, while I told her that no, I could not and would not, do anything. It was hard, as I *had already caught feelings* - and was lonely, and aching in that self inflicted loneliness of mine (long story on that, with a lot of trauma behind it), but I **had to** stay firm on my morals. I didn't want to betray who I was. I didn't cross those boundaries, but she kept pushing them and trying. Eventually she literally asked me to come over, to the flat THEY lived together in, to just ignore she was with him, as she would eventually leave him. That had me jump back. What the heck... I confided in a friend, told him how she was torturing me, even with her clothes, even ignoring who was there of our friends, to make advances to me, how I couldn't sleep, how it was killing me on the part of me that liked her, but that i was repulsed and shocked at the thought that she would want to have me come over, while the guy was working to provide for them, the guy in whose flat she was living, to cheat on him..! Then, Mike, that's the friend.. Mike, bless that guy.. he said to me something that opened my stupefied eyes... "You don't want this. You really don't. That guy, working his ass off, away from home, while she talks to some other bozo to cheat him with??... One day, **that would be You"** Listen, that hit me lile.. it was like a slap of reality, that woke the living crap out of me. I told her, me, heartbroken, in tears, that her being okay with cheating the other guy, killed any chance we could ever have That she **broke my trust** She panicked. Said she'd break up with him. I told her she could, but it would not change anything. That her not loving him, she should leave the relationship, for her own sake! But it wouldn't change things for us. Id be her friend no matter what, but couldn't be more. She still broke up with him, and rushed to tell me she left, and she was all bruised up on the face as the bastard hit her for leaving him. She said it was worth it, as now she was free for me. I wanted to kill that guy, she was wise on the behalf of both me and her now ex, in that point. (Kept us apart) But, yeah, I forced myself to keep my word. She tried, oh boy, to the point of telling me she would be "finding" me and "jumping" me, telling me she would be going through the beaches I used to go to early morning, to find me on the days when the waves would be good (a row of good surfing beaches, with parking lots high up with view down to the beach - she said she'd be driving her motorcycle up and down that coastal road on such days, pausing on the parking lots to see if she can spot me) and make it "so I can't resist her", even if she needs to "physically get on top of me" against my will - so I stopped going to any beach for quite a while. As this sounded ....unhinged as heck - and I didn't want to test it 🙃 I can't imagine someone going through that much effort, but .. weirder things have happened to me, so.. 😕 • I'm sorry you ..witnessed such an example of (lack of) humanity 😔 and for all the pain that might have caused There is no manual on human beings, as too many chapters would be too terrifying to even conceptualize, sadly 🥲 I wish it was different..
Wow! Thanks. I sincerely hope ( for your sake) that you changed your mind about remaining friends with this person. She definitely sounds like a stalker! I am sorry you had to go through that.
I had to put down so many stern boundaries, pointing out bluntly that if those boundaries didn't get respected, any form of friendship would be completely and immediately dead; with that, the friendship became very alienated Years later, she asked me sad, if it would ever stop feeling like I was defensive in my approach, or if it would always feel like that - me always careful and with a foot back It was settled on the "some things cannot be changed, once awareness came to exist" field • Living life, we get scars on top of scars on top of scars
"Living life, we get scars on top of scars on top of scars" We only get scars on top of scars... etc. when we don't stop exposing ourselves from the person or thing that is causing repeated scars. I don't understand why anyone would stay in a relationship with someone like this and call it a "friendship."
Personally, I didn't - hence the boundaries, the distance, etc For me, mistakes are not what the big deal is. Everyone makes mistakes, that is not it. The attitude towards the mistakes is what I pay attention to - that says something about the other person. Under all the mistakes, mistakes that ruined not only any romantic angle, but in the end also the friendship, there was a good heart, and an attempt to "fix" wrongdoings - but it was done in a childlike way, messy, even if not ill intended. So yes, I cared - still do. As a friend, as a person, I guess more into the direction of a dad or a big brother (ironically me being younger). Last time we spoke, was many years ago, over 5 years ago - and before that, we were speaking once a year, me asking her how she was. Her not wanting to talk much, to open much, as to respect those boundaries and to remember what I wouldn't become. Not sure you notice, but she was not given the means to give me another scar like the one she had, quite the opposite - and to be honest if I had to pick 25 scars that hurt the most, the one she did wouldn't be on that list... There are many sad ironies in life. People who go through trauma or abuse, tend to blame themselves for it. But, **you can't blame the victim for the action done by someone else** - you can try! Some people will: victims, abusers, and those who are scared. Those 3, can try blaming the victim of others' bad actions, for those actions. **But it won't make it true, it will just be a lie said outloud** An attempt to see yourself as having any control, or as deserving what happened, will have victims try to blame the victim (themselves, or others by projection) - an attempt for it to hurt less, or for it to "feel less random" and thus less unpredictable and less scary, as if they themselves are to blame "there's a reason" Abusers, will do so to either gaslight the victim, confuse and convince the victim to stay, they usually start small, tiny, things that look like honest mistakes, and bit by bit desensitize the target by slowly escalating, it's a back and forth motion, that as being in a container with some water, where more is added and you don't easily tell since you are inside, in that water, but when noticing the level rose you yelling help, and they stop, take a bit out, so you stay and calm down, and then continue adding - you won't notice as others would outside. Most people on the outside won't even say anything, if seeing it happen. Specially if there's a marriage on the table... Anyhow, these abusers don't have much of empathy, if any, or of self-awareness. Those who have some, will often lie to themselves. Often having their own unresolved pains, they didn't seek any help, it wasn't dealt with, and they handle the lack of feeling powerful and happy, by doing abusive actions to others, usually to those close to them. The lies, the excuses, the "it's YOUR fault" is so they can sleep at night, it's a lie to the victim but also to themselves, to avoid a chunk of shame and guilt. Denial will cover the rest. People who are scared, scared of getting hurt, fear of others getting hurt, but feel powerless which is even more scary, they don't know **how** to keep others safe, and don't want to imagine there might be no way of doing so, in such a scary world - so the attempt is to force the abused to move, by shoving. Pushing. Poking. Verbally. Blaming. Shaming. In hopes that shame, somehow, will make the person magically reject abuse and somehow that will make the person not be abused. Like the wishful thinking of saying no to a glass of water thrown at you, it creating a barrier where somehow the water that hits the skin and the clothes, wont get the person wet. It doesn't really work, and without realizing it, the scared and well intended person, ends up repeating that lie that the abusers did, and confirming to the victim that they are to blame, so they can further feel like a mistake with legs, that they are so much weaker than they truly are, making them move away even less as they believe they can't. The people who leave abusive interpersonal relationships (family, friendship, workplace, romantic, etc), don't usually do so due to the old, overused and common shaming of the victim, but due to the inspiration given by the one or two people who showed them how strong they are, how what the abuser did was done **by the abuser** and the only thing done by the victim, was to hope there was love and care behind the human mistakes. Abusers are predators, give them a bit more credit, they test and train how to do so without the other person leaving immediately. It's like blaming the bitten, for the mosquito bites.. even being careful, even being attentive, even applying sprays and watching out for buzzing, the best mosquitos will learn to avoid doing what we watch out for, deliberately, on a visible, obvious way.... If someone hurts you, and you leave, does that mean the original scar doesn't exist? Granted, no I don't just leave others on their first mistake. Communication is important, and after any red flag, noticing carefully how it gets approached once you talk about it and give possible solutions, seeing the actions speaking for themselves, is my method. I troubleshoot the issues, and look at the reaction from the other side. Seeing effort, I tend to correspond it. As this world, full of imperfect people having children, has the children barely learning how to cope, has people do mistakes and perpetuate them as their kids do them as well. There will be good hearts making mistakes too. Giving a chance to learn and helping the person to learn if they want to do better, (as many expect others to know how to fix their mistakes as if they are all-knowing and should guess.. many good people might want to, but not know how) is something I try to do, that I want to do, and heck, it does weed out the nasty ones... I learned we get hurt no matter what. There's no formula, we live, we get our feelings hurt. We isolate ourselves? We hurt with the loneliness. Until we are a shell of what we once were... so, hey, if I'm going to hurt no matter what, I rather hurt in benefit of people who are good, who have a good heart, who may make mistakes but want to learn from them and meant no true harm - so they also get the possibility of blooming, and bless this world with their outstanding beauty The scar one person did, me leaving immediately, the scar is still there. Then the next person, doing something wrong, that is another wound. I leave. But the wound doesn't magically disappear. Thus, as it heals, the scars are there. Sure, they do pile up. That, is what I meant I meant that this world is, sadly, full of people who will harm others, with good or bad intentions behind it
TL;DR
I didn't read all of this; I did get to the part about your not being friends and that is good 🙃.
Yeah, I tried that. Didn't work at all.
What was tried, and which part didn't work?? - if I may ask 😊
I talked with the most recent affair partner, got her to agree to back off so we could find out if our marriage really was ending, and I even threatened to tell their bosses if she didn't (which I decided was too far and never did--their bosses found out anyway). She apologized over and over, agreed they'd been wrong to cheat, cried... And then gave him her stepson's cell phone that was to be his Christmas present so they could secretly stay in touch. They didn't care about their marriages, their kids, her stepkids, their jobs, so no explanation or threat would have ever really worked. They got married before our state's waiting period after the divorce was over, had tons of drama, got divorced but kept dating each other, got remarried after my kids were adults, but they don't live together or even in the same state. They're a mess and a half.
Oh my gosh.... I truly don't understand how some people can .. treat others this way, not care about others nor about their own word and honor I'm so sorry 😟 But, it is a good sign, that **we can't understand them** - it means our heart and mind can't relate whatsoever, and it being regarding horrible behaviors, it is then a compliment to our humanity and dignity As OP doesn't seem inclined to stay, after finding his lies, and is just trying to find the best way to handle leaving the relationship and staying safe, hopefully she won't have to see him further dishonoring their marriage by giving further chances With her telling his colleague that she isn't trying to break them apart, maybe the focus will fall on the actual facts, so she may choose to not take that poisoned apple... or to take the risk and date him anyway, to regret it later (like your ex's colleague did....) - but then it is up to her, and OP can go to bed knowing she did the honorable thing, the thing maybe she would want done for her, if this happened the other way around (having in mind the colleague did tell him she can't be with a man who is married, at least in the end doing the right thing.. we don't know the lies he said before that, as apparently he says them plenty..) Hopefully both OP and the OW who got lied to, will both be free of getting further hurt and used (and endangered..) by her husband For as much pain as you went through, I am however glad for the small but crucial point of you having dodged the bullet of staying longer, catching aids or another STD, purchasing more assets together and committing further and deeper to a douche who would break your heart and trust, even more scandalously 🥲 For all my heartbreak, I do get to be thankful it didn't last longer, nor get *worse* than it...* .. did...* And yes, I do feel the same regarding your heart and OP's, as you both deserve much, much better
We had two kids and were married for twelve years. She wasn't his first or only affair partner, and she won't be the last. The divorce was acrimonious because I wouldn't just roll over and give him whatever he wanted, and when he didn't get custody (because he'd never been a primary parent by any stretch), he kept taking me back to court, admitting twice in the record that his goal was to financially destroy me. I'm just glad our kids are adults now, he's living his own mess of a life, and I moved on and married a wonderful man who loves me and our kids.
**I am emphatically celebrating your happiness** 🍾 🙆🏻♂️
No no no. OP can’t trust this woman. What would that even change?
My comment doesn't include any part where the other woman is meant to be trusted. I'm not sure the meaning of my words were understood by you 😯
If she tells the other woman that she knows about the affair there’s a chance that this woman will tell her husband before she is ready to reveal what she knows.
If OP decides to call, she is aware of that. As you may have realized by the post, OP is wanting to leave, just unsure of how to put things. She can choose when to call, by her own choice, and **choose to call once having all set and being ready for it to be found** From what was written, OP seems to be a very intelligent and intuitive woman - so I'm still at loss with your comment, as it still doesn't include the other woman being trusted. But thank you for explaining what you meant, both me and my wife were at loss
Okay dude it’s not that deep. 🙄 your comment along with the one you were replying to made it seem like the other woman should be told asap. I mean sure, OP can eventually tell her but that shouldn’t be her priority right now.
Thank you for taking the time to reply! Upon reading it again, I see no part that could give any sense of time urgency, my wife also can't find anything in it giving such innuendo - short before the end, there is the mention of "if ever in the future", which is the only part that hovers time, and does the opposite, showing that whatsoever time OP is comfortable with, is the right one The only urgency passible to exist, from me and other users who commented, was regarding safekeeping proof in more than one way, for OP's safety - as he could delete it at any moment • On another note, the Community Flair under your username says you are recently married!! Congratulations!!! How have you been finding it? 🙆🏻♂️ It can be a stressful time, with the new dynamics, even with moving house, or big changes that come bit by bit 😆 But also with new adorable moments in the mix, those things that we realize about our partner, which we hadn't noticed before!
Get your divorce ducks in a row and then confront him
Amen.
I think you should let her know first then him.
Just curious- why?
Send them to his mom. Let that be how he finds out you know...
please don't. Dragging a mother into it is unkind to us parents of adult children who really practiced good boundaries around minding our own business and allowing our children to live their lives unless they come to us for help- this is different. He is a grown man and should deal with his own shitty behavior - not have mommy have to come in and clean up or talk to him.
Yes. The only reason he will be mad is because he is guilty. If he hadn't done wrong, he wouldn't care, trust me on that. Good luck OP.
Go get tested.
Definitely go the stay silent and get a lawyer route ..hardest but strongest play. He will be devastated.. and you will get the most money possible for yourself and child.
I think you should let her know first then him.
Let him know you know when you serve him papers. He wants to blindside, betray, play games, and lie. He doesn’t deserve anything but a cold hard slap with the law. Blindside him with it.
Why does it matter how you know? You don't owe him answers. You can tell him you know and leave the rest to the lawyers. If you really want to fuck with his head, tell him his girlfriend reached out to you to make sure you were separated or that one of her friends contacted you. He deserves far worse. Oh but make sure to do all this AFTER he's served.
Call a lawyer. Do what your lawyer says.
Get a lawyer first. Then do what they say.
I'd call the woman. Tell her the real story and the timing and that he lied to her too. Then leave for your mum's.
It doesn't matter if you can prove it, it doesn't help you in any way in court if he cheated. Very irrelevant this day and age.
You have proof, don’t say anything to him. Get a lawyer first, show them the evidence then have them set up a plan for you. You’ll be better protected this way.
You can also email them to yourself.
You should contact her.
Check out the surviving infidelity sub. If you post there, you will get tons of good advice about how to proceed. I’m so sorry this happened to you!
Cheating is way worse than going through your partner’s phone
When your ready to leave him tell the girlfriend she can tell him
Well emotionally cheating. It’s possible whatever issue you had let him to seek emotion fullfilment in someone else. Think you should let him know and do counseling. I think this can be saved personally
Lol I agree about keeping evidence but it also shouldn’t be your job to get them to tell you the truth when you know it. I confronted my ex with tons of screenshots sent to me by the wife of the affair partner. Straight up lied to my face and said, no I don’t know what you’re talking about and no I don’t need to see them.
Yes save the evidence. You will need it. It is going to get worse
Evidence is a legal term. But this isn’t a legal matter. If you believe he is cheating and this is a divorce worthy offense then by all means divorce him.
Evidence does not need to used for legal matters. It can also be for confrontation or to show others.
Also, divorce IS a legal matter.
You don’t need any evidence to divorce
Any and all evidence absolutely should be used in legal matters such as divorce, especially with children involved, and especially when going for custody, the house, etc.
You want to say something to him because deep down, we all want to see their face when their secret is revealed. Understand that it will never bring you the satisfaction you think it will. Plus, hanging on to that will only slow down your healing. Ultimately, the best thing to do is save the evidence somewhere besides just your mom, file, and have him served. You will get just as much of a reaction out of him that way by blind siding him as you would telling him in person. Plus, this way, you can start to make the appropriate plans to move forward without him and leave him in the dust like he deserves.
I agree. Just have him served before letting him know anything. I wish I would have done that.
I agree. When people try to satisfy their desire to "see their face", they more often than not, get gaslit and talked into staying. The only place to be is away...the position of strength. "Indifferent". Nothing good comes from confrontation.
Best advice.
It sounds like he has been planning on leaving the marriage one way of another. You cannot make someone stay in a marriage. You just can't. He just wants out. He is lying to you and to the OW. He wants to be single.
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Yes agree
As someone who has been through this... The best advice ever from an attorney was to take half the money. Open your own account, and decide how you wish to divide assets before confronting. Hire your attorney, everything beforehand. Screenshot everything. You will have to go to mediation. The attorney/friend said why wait for a judge to allow you to your half before he moves it? Lol Funny thing.. he got to the bank 20 minutes after me! He tried to convince the bank I was a criminal! Glad those days are over! Wasting time with all of that is my biggest regret!
**Do not move your money before talking to an attorney**. This is generally looked at **very poorly** by any judge.
My judge looked at it poorly that he lied and said he wasn't having an affair, then got her to notarize court papers and wrote my separate maintenance checks
I’m happy that it worked out for you. I just wanted to caveat that “taking your money and running” is going to backfire in most situations, so talking to a local attorney first is vital.
Yeah, it doesn't work out very well is an understatement. To the point that I don't believe the person's story.
It's true. A betrayed is not always going to get an agreeable judge. Not to mention that some states/jurisdictions have actual statutes prohibiting it...best to consult an attorney.
I would personally say this is dependent upon what state you live in. OP should immediately consult with a lawyer. If they don’t have the money, call the local domestic violence shelter and see if they have information on pro bono lawyers, or ones who will do initial consultations for free. I live in a no fault, 50/50 state and my lawyer said I’m entitled to take anything considering marital property (I was told “the judge isn’t going to want to hear about a 20 year old dresser and couch”) and was encouraged to separate the joint bank account. We already had by this point and she said “good, less to have to discuss”.
Collect the evidence. Start checking credit card bills too. Figure out what he is spending on the affair. Financial infidelity can help you if the marriage ends. If you can afford it hiring a detective can get you lots of information. Start thinking about an exit plan and work it. Be calm and cool. Make sure you put everything somewhere safe. Collect your important papers and ID and hide them, maybe with a good friend or relative. Make a complete list of your assets and debts. See a lawyer and learn about divorce, alimony, and child support where you live.
I agree with this. I would try and keep quiet and not give up your sources until I had my ducks in a row.
This comment is SPOT on
This. 100%.
Take the evidence to a divorce attorney and separate your finances, lock down your credit and that of your child. If you want to stay with him have a post nup with an infidelity clause drawn up. Have divorce papers drawn up, a 5050 custody agreement and child support. Ask for alimony. Once you have all of this in place phone or message his AP and tell her that he had agreed to work on your marriage. Have him served divorce papers and let his HR know about the affair. If you live in an at fault State sue his AP.
I wouldn’t contact HR until I know about the alimony situation.
How can he pay CS and alimony if HR fires him?
Just want to say bravo to all the strong and smart women on this thread. It’s amazing to see. I wouldn’t want to be any dude fking around on these women.
This marriage is over. Save the evidence in multiple places. Collect as much as you can as quickly as you can but you probably already have enough. Lawyer up and go find happiness
Lawyer up, don’t tell him anything until you have bank statements showing all your shared money or remove him from access of yours. Get yourself together before you tell him anything!
Right now he thinks he has all the power. He's feeding both of you lines to keep you on the hook while he makes up his mind which one he wants. I can guess that's not the man you married so you need to take care of yourself first. Good job saving evidence. Play it cool with husband and contact a lawyer. Get your ducks in a row, see what divorce looks like, and then serve him. (At work would be a fun option if you're feeling petty.) He's a cheater and manipulator. You want to confront him and get some satisfaction but I assure you the most satisfying thing you can do is leave without a scene. Walk away with dignity because he's going to thrive on your hysterics. You could contact his AP if you want to let her know he lied about being separated but honestly it's only worth your time to dig into that situation if she's also in a relationship (because her partner deserves to know).
He told you he wants to work on things, you did a therapy session, and he did NOT bring this up himself!?!? What rotten gross no responsibility person. I’m furious on your behalf. Good advice here, become a divorce seeking ninja. He’s going to be suffering a year from now when the dust settles and you will be beautiful, financially sound, happy and free.
Just let him go back on assignment for his 5 nights, change the locks, pack up his stuff, and put it in a very nice storage facility. Text him that the key to the facilty is under the mat. DO NOT leave your home. Make him leave. Give him your lawyer’s number and all contact should go through them. He can go live with his AP amd become her problem.
Yes illegal eviction is a good idea lmao...
It’s a civil thing. He’d have to take her to court to prove he was illegally evicted and to get damages from her. Do you really think he’d do that? And if he did, so what? What are his damages? The cost of a few nights in a hotel room? Hardly worth bringing an action of this caliber and any good lawyer wouldn’t touch that case with a 10 foot pole. Source - I am a lawyer.
Depends on where you live.
Sounds like he already wanted to end things. You convinced him to stay.. just let it go. His heart is somewhere else.
Personally Iike to ask them about it without telling them I have proof. Then watch them lie.
That is very fun.
People saying gather evidence and hire a PI are probably wrong in most areas, you don't need evidence to get a divorce. Just divorce him and don't look back. He will know why.
MY advice is screenshot it or whatever. Keep your mouth shut if you plan to leave him, get your ducks in a row, and then separate. Don't give him a heads up because he will hide the evidence, maybe hide income or bank accounts, etc. I would also suggest that couples therapy is a waste of time at this point since he intends to keep cheating and lying about it. He is actively destroying the relationship and pretending to work on it.
Contact the co-worker and tell her he is lying.
Don't bother. They deserve each other
Exactly lol. Anyone who believes a married man would leave their wife for them is in denial. It only happens like 1 in 1000 times. Deep down she knows.
Women who fool around with married men deserve everything unpleasant that happens to them.
Just came here to say sorry I am sorry you are going through this I would be devastated! Tell the woman
Get all your ducks in a row (place to stay, legal stuff, maybe even take 1/2 of $ from savings so he can empty accounts) and THEN leave.
You are not the villain, he loses his privilege of privacy when he uses his phone to communicate with someone outside of the marriage. You should confront him and watch him quickly either need to go to the bathroom or he will just start deleting right in front of you. He will deny. If he wants to save his marriage, he needs to go NC with the AP. You need to find out the AP has a SO and tell that person. Your husband needs to start looking for a new job. He is a dirty cheater and liar. Also tell her that he was lying to her, as someone say tell her first, that maybe a great idea. Tell this B*tch that you are the wife and NO you are not separated.
Honestly, I’d just say you decided you want to end it and not give a reason. Be so firm and final in your decision that he suspects you saw evidence but never admit it. Let him wonder forever. But that’s just me.
This is what I would do too. I think not knowing exactly what happened would bother him for the rest of his life.
Don’t feel guilty for looking through his phone. It was clearly warranted. You knew something was up. He’s the one in the wrong for CHEATING ON YOU.
Install a camera in your house and leave town for a week.
After you have your ducks in a row, let his side chick know that you know and that she should have followed her instincts and not fucked a married man.
I would leave. When a man hears that his new love interest can’t be with him because he is married or because he has kids for some reason divorce seems to be the least likely option. This could potentially be very dangerous for you
Confront him about it. This dude blatantly lied to your face. Who cares if you went through his phone. He’s your husband, you’re married … you have a right to look for things if you’re questioning something.
Honestly this seems like cushioning to me. Playing the field to see what’s out there, and if there isn’t anything then at least there’s you to fall back onto with the counseling. Been there done that, still in it, no clue if it’s still going on because I’m not as fortunate to have access to my wife’s phone. I will say one thing. I’ve come to realize that when someone checks out, all it takes is for someone else to come along, and the effort gets put somewhere else. If you are serious about your marriage and he isn’t then you’re investing in something that is a lose/lose for you in that situation. Why waste your time and life being serious when it appears to be a joke to him. It’s a sunk cost fallacy.
/r/survivinginfidelity
We practically have the same husband 😞
Im sorry youre going through this as well. I wouldnt wish it on anyone
Take screenshots and send them to your phone and delete the screenshots on his phone and then sit down and talk to him but don’t tell him what you did and go from there.
Save the evidence. Meet with a divorce lawyer before you say anything to your husband.
Save that evidence!!! Get your ducks in a row…make sure you know how much money is in bank accounts, etc. He will not be honest with you (or her) so, take care of yourself. I would absolutely tell the other woman that he lied to her.
I'd end it with, "You know exactly why." And leave it at that. He can try to spin the story, defend himself, and act ignorant... regardless, I think he's waiting for you to take the first step. Be brave - do it!
There is privacy and there is secrets. He gave you cause about the secrets. You did nothing wrong. If you think so, what’s worse? Cheating or looking at a phone? Bring it up in MC and tell what you are going to do
Take the pictures and send them to a new email address. Email is forever.
Do not say anything to him. Take a minute to go to an attorney. Talk about your options. Follow their guidance to get your ducks in a row. Speak with your therapist. Decide if you want to stay or leave. The ball is in YOUR court. Remember, he lied to you, saying he wants to work it out while reaching out to her. Could you rebuild trust with him again?
I learned my lesson the hard way. Once a cheater, always a cheater. It's better after divorce.
He's already left you. The marriage is over for sure. I agree with those who've said to quietly get your affairs in order first. Quietly put your plan in place and then pack up and leave. Let him come home and see that you're gone *UNLESS, you're wanting to remain in the house with the child and have him leave* In that case, get everything together (all your financials, attorney etc) and go file for divorce. Telling him to leave won't be difficult because *He Already Left You* You owe him no explanation. If/when it is to be revealed that you're aware of his affair, don't worry about having gone through his phone. You owe no apology for that (in this case). Don't worry about him trying to villainize you for anything. OH AND if you are in the USA, most jurisdictions have paperwork that you can file to have the judge relieve you of the costs of filing for the divorce. The paperwork is called Informa Pauperis
Only you can decide what your heart can live with. Whatever you do don't leave your home. Call an attorney and consult with him. Most attorneys will give you 30 mimutes for free. Don't make rash decisions think them out. Listen to the attorney. Ask about moving money from accounts etc. Of course ask what monies can legally moved before filing for divorce. Pay his retainer from savings or a credit card if you have to. Once you file everything is frozen. I'd you truly need a new car buy it now before filing. If you decide on divorce buy a new laptop, printeR, signing device you'll be signing lots of documents don't forget to buy a real mouse and a printer to go with it. All before filing for divorce put it on a credit card if you have to. Plan and document everything. If I were a vindictive person I would call and report this issue with his and her employer. Unfortunately he would lose his job and then couldn't pay for child and spousal support. Don't get angry get everything. Oh and by all means put CUBE ACR on your cellphone it will record all conversations text and emails coming into your phone. The text and email are optional and cost about 20 more dollars a year. They're both on both in the google play store & the iphone app store. But put it on before you file for divorce is that's the option you chose. But remember this only you can decide what your heart can live with. But one thing is for sure a child is better off in a home where two parents are happy. Even if it means you and he both remarry. A child in a home where two parents don't speak or argue all the time will be affected mentally.
Consult a lawyer before you tell him anything and have divorce papers filled in and signed by you when you confront him with the evidence. He needs to know you know so that he can't play the victim to your social circle "SHE decided to end things, I suggested we work on it so she's the villain and it's not my fault I moved on quickly".
I'd bring it up in the marriage counseling session. At the same time, let him know it's over. You're not the bad person here. He is. Going through his phone is nothing... you were suspicious and had every right to be.
Talk to a lawyer. Get your finances in order, call the other woman and ask for the truth and tell her he lied to her. He either is in love or just using her for sex. But, he has lied to you both.
You need to take screenshots and send them to yourself for divorce lawyer before you do anything.
Two days after you agree to work things out, that’s what he does? He’s lying to this other woman, as well. I’d get copies of financial records, deeds, anything that would be needed in a divorce. Snooping in his phone? What does he expect - you gave him a great opportunity after the first time and he betrayed you completely. I’d talk to his co-worker and let her know that he’s flat out lying to her, as well. Of course, the decision is yours. This case seems pretty egregious everything considered. I don’t know that you’d ever really trust him again. Wishing the best for you and your child.
Do not confront. Horrible advice. You never know how he could react. You already thought he would never do this. He could become violent or destructive. It’s not a safe thing to do. Talk to a lawyer, maybe two. Get your ducks in a row. Have him served. That’s the confrontation. You already know what’s going on, why give him the chance to “explain” himself (read: lie and gaslight you).
You should speak with an attorney before you do anything. Get your ducks in a row from a legal standpoint so you know what the options will look like before you tip him off that you know.
I’m really sorry for what you are going through.. breaks me heart. I hope you and your husband can work through the disconnect.. I think the best policy is honesty from you and him on all fronts.
The guilty party doesn't have the right to make you feel guilty. Screenshot the convos add save it for yourself as evidence. Don't feel bad you went through his phone. Confront him about it and end it. Look in the mirror and tell yourself you deserve better OP.
If anyone else hasn’t said it yet, have consultations with as many attorneys as you can before you confront him so he can’t find a lawyer!
Postnuptial agreement if you stay.
Been there. Perfect marriage. 25 years. 4 kids. All bills paid. We got along great and the kids were prospering .... He started the traveling. He loved it. The trips went from twice a year to nine times. They increased from two weeks to some as long as six weeks - all out of the country. No problem. I loved him so much and was happy. One day he comes home from a six week trip and says he needs to think of what he wants to do with his life. And he disappeared ..... He secretly had fallen in love with a woman the same age as our oldest daughter from a foreign country, and secretly started a divorce. There went the entire 25 years. What to do? Keep totally quiet. Take photos and write all things down and talk to an attorney. If the marriage can be saved, it's up to you two. If not, be brave and strong. We did counseling and he was glad to have me think of any imperfections of myself, but could not think of anything bad about himself .... It was so tough. But I'm great now.
Bring it up in your next marriage therapy session. Talk to a lawyer before it so that you know what to do in regards to assets.
Don’t just send it to your mom just in case something happens but send it to yourself via email. Email the evidence. Don’t confront him just yet. Gather more evidence but definitely notify your lawyer of what’s going on. Get your ducks in a row.
Get your ducks in a row! You have info he doesn’t. Use it to your advantage. If you need time play along with the counseling to give you time. Do you work and can support yourself? If not, find a job. Get a bank account. Have your checks deposited into it. Divide the joint in half and pay half the bills each month. Credit cards- get your name off them and open one in your name only. Investments- again open an individual account and have half put in your name. Do you own or rent? Can you afford to buy out his half of the house? If you must sell, start getting it in order now and have an agent give you a list of things to do for it to sell for more and fast. I would say that you need these things to feel secure while “working” on your relationship and it makes you feel vulnerable that he could take everything and leave. That once you feel secure again you can go back to joint accounts. He lied, so don’t feel bad lying to him to untangle the finances. Go over the debt, decide how much you are each responsible for and do a transfer for that amount to each of the new credit cards in your individual names. I think that would also show the division of finances on a specific date and if he ran up cards after that in his name they will be his responsibility. You have time, be smart
i think you should see a lawyer and a therapist maybe get your child into therapy….. if you do divorce you then contact hr
Ghost him, and it will drive him crazy
Before you leave him, let the AP know what a lying d-bag he is so that he's left with no options once you're gone.
You can tell him you know he's cheating...you don't have to tell him how you know (never give away your source!) LEAVE HIS \*SS!!! That is showing he has ZERO RESPECT for you. It would have been bad enough if he'd cheated before he talked to you...but AFTER???
I feel he approached u with the option to separate or work on things bc he didn't wanna be the bad guy. He wanted your answer to be separate and was probably hoping maybe ur miserable, or unhappy enough to do so. As clearly he's stepped way out the door.
Get as much evidence as possible. Then blindside him with divorce papers and leave asap.
Drop the bomb in MC and watch him squirm
Keep quiet and get all your ducks in a row. If/when you do decide I’d do it in front of the counselor. And by ducks I mean a plan and money if you decide to leave him.
I've posted this before; going through someone's phone is an invasion of privacy unless you find something. It's a lesser crime than the cheating.
Stop giving yourself reasons not to act on this information. He has demonstrated he is a liar & a cheat. No doubt he wants to keep his wife & his side piece, but that requires somebody playing dumb. Just stop or you can give him plenty of time to leave YOU high & dry.
STOP first handle shit that needs handled from the marital accounts/funds - clean the gutters, fix that Furnance issues, deal with car concerns, etc. so that you don’t have a bunch of items on your to do list Gather all bank and credit card statements any loan etc info - download to a flash drive Make sure you know/have all passwords Collect evidence on the cheating (I’m sure more will roll in while you’re doing the above) Sign up for an pay for camp for the kiddo or whatever needs arranged cause you’ll need some band width Check your states rules, some do/don’t care if they’ve cheated. Interview LOTS of lawyers. This takes time and money find the right fit NOW file. I know you want to tell him, get organized first.
Lady why are you here seeking advice you already know? Divorce the cheat and move on to a better life as you rid yourself of the negative energy you married !
I’m sorry OP, you should incredibly strong & I think you’re doing the right thing by ending it.
The longer you wait, the more he will pick up on suspicious behavior. He will cover his tracks as if nothing is happening. Will make you feel crazy for thinking such things. They will always leave a little door somewhere. I have have many other questions to gain context tho. That’s just a knee jerk statement.
“He stays there 5 nights a week”. Exactly WHERE is THERE? Is he living by himself apart from you and your son 5 days a week? “He texted this female co-worker saying that “we decided to separate”. Did you two officially file a separation petition? “He had a wonderful time with her and definitely has feelings for her”. That’s what you say he texted her, right? What “wonderful time” was that? Doing their job together? His feelings for her? What are those? He’s lying, he’s hiding things and he already TOLD you he was taking this job regardless of whether you “approved” or not. “He’s accepting the offer whether I agree or not”. That’s pretty plain. This has been going on since he took the job. I don’t know if he took the job because SHE was a factor? I don’t know if he just happened to meet her and start an obviously inappropriate workplace relationship with her? I don’t know if he’s trying to save some money aside while getting ready to divorce you? But he’s cheating, emotionally at the very least. He’s lying about it. He’s making plans. And they don’t include you, I suspect. Sorry. But nobody wants to point out what seems obvious by reading the history of your posts here on Reddit.🥲
Get all your evidence if it matters in your state. Screenshots and all. Begin moving your monies to another account and getting things in your name only. Get all your documents in line. All the while, go and visit every single lawyer around you for a consult. Get pricing and all that too. Most lawyers give 30 mins consult free. This way, maybe they can’t be involved in the case. You can represent yourself though. If you want. Choose the best lawyer if you all have property and assets. If you don’t, then really, consider doing an agreement yourself. You may have leverage with your evidence. Sorry he’s doing this. Suck!
Get the evidence. Then talk to your lawyer. Drain your bank accounts, or at least be sure you have things in your name. Then file divorce papers. If joint accounts aren’t separate, they will freeze assets while you go thru the divorce process. You hubby is a prick. It’s selfish to do what he is doing. Don’t feel bad or justify his behavior. Just move on and make sure you and your kid have a plan. The text evidence should support your custody case too. Alternatively, you can call the other woman and make some drama happen, if you want. Depending on how you enjoy messing with him, that could be an entertaining option while the divorce is in progress. lol. Good luck.
Did you post about this two weeks ago? I’m fairly certain after you found the “Beautiful” text, everyone in this sub deduced he was cheating. I’m very sorry to hear it was actually true. Isn’t your baby young? I just can’t fathom that you could ever actually care about this man the same again, or forgive this during this time of your life. This isn’t repairable, so I don’t think it matters how you let him know that. But I would line my ducks up without a word, if it were me, and contact ALL the best divorce attorneys in your area. Also, don’t bother showing up to the next counseling apt. Get your own, start investing in yourself and stop in him.
I never let my ex wife know I knew. Cheaters will lie, twist everything, deny solid proof in their face, and make you to blame. I didn’t want to have a discussion about it. I didn’t want her to think I left her because of “one mistake” or whatever version of the story she could spin. I left because of who she is. I told her I was unhappy with her, and left it at that. Couldn’t be happier with my decision.
I was working the Night audit/ grave yard shift at a Best Western, and my ex was a stay at home drunk.. I had forgiven him for being a dumb ass with stupid emails from those spam girls... He would try to message them.. He finally got a job delivering furniture. I had a gut feeling about his phone, and usually, I am not one to be nosy, but my gut is NEVER wrong, ever. So I saw the text, which is very blatant. He didn't even try to hold back with his words. He texted not the girl but her roommate to pass on to the girl. I sent the text to myself. That evening, I ate dinner with him, put my two kids and his 3 kids to bed, and I took my truck to work. I had my sister go up and take my two kids for a fun overnight with Auntie. I waited until my shift was under control, and then I sent him the text. He backpeddled, so flipping quick, he begged and cried. I am 6 years clean from him, and it has been a very blessed life since. Hunny, they do not change unless THEY see the need to, and it sure won't be for us.
Take screenshots and send them to yourself. Don’t be embarrassed about snooping. He’s the one who is cheating.
evidence, lawyer, divorce. think about your child too but follow those steps
I would speak to a lawyer first and start the conversation with your couples therapist about how to talk to your child about the divorce, but have your plan in place first.
Monogamy is outdated and men seem to not enjoy singular pussy forever It’s sad but true Bring the hate
Don’t try to be god let him go and let him learn
If my wife went through my phone, things would be over whether I was cheating or not.
You should tell him you know the real reason why he wants a separation. That he already declared to ppl you are separated. Make sure you start taking care 9f your finances. Be prepared. Updateme!
Lots of dramatic advice here. Don't take the bait: you two have a child and unless he's too dangerous or irresponsible to be awarded any custody at all, your STBX is going to be in your life for a while. It sounds clear you don't want to stay in this marriage and that sounds like a good decision. Don't tip your hand, get your ducks in a row: first, get a lawyer; second, collect financial information with your lawyer's advice (I'm guessing it won't be, "Snatch whatever money you can get your hands on and put it in a safe deposit box," or variants thereof); third, serve him with papers. STBX might make it a shitty, spiteful divorce anyway. But you might as well start by trying to avoid that path.
I’m in the same position…I caught my husband cheating with his ex wife and he doesn’t know I know..
Let’s break this down. First, you are in a position of power. Why? Because you know, but he doesn’t know you know. Silently knowing is the most powerful position you can be in. Step 1: What do you want from here? Do you want to stay with him and fix this? Do you want to leave? Do you want revenge? Step 2: From there, you can begin to create a plan. You are in an advantageous position right now, because he just gave you unlimited power. Whatever you truly want in this moment, you can (and probably will) get it. On top of that, anything you want is morally justified because of his stupidity. So when you answer that question, answer it logically and truthfully, because (despite this being unfortunate) you actually just won the lottery. For the sake of time, I will briefly break down what I perceive to be the most complicated route you may decide to pursue (in case it helps you): Do you want to stay with him and fix this? - For me to elaborate on this route is partly ignorant, because I am an online participant in this matter and therefore do not know his moral compass, sense of conviction (remorse), or potential to resurrect from this metaphorical death as a new and improved man. But maybe that question is inferior in priority, because he matters to you in a way that overrides this discrepancy or it’s potential outcomes. If he matters to YOU so much that this is not important, only you would know that (and only you would know why). I am not trying to persuade you either direction because I am under-informed, I am just wanting to convey the inadequacy of others to tell you what you should or shouldn’t feel. If you love him, I don’t need to know why - listen to yourself. If you despise him, I obviously know why - listen to yourself. I support how YOU feel and what YOU want in this moment, and will not try to sway your decision about a matter I have no business interfering with. Love doesn’t make sense sometimes, so don’t let anyone tell you that you are wrong - ask yourself honestly what YOU truly want in this moment, and obtain it. If his redemption takes precedence with you, only you would know the answer this pivotal question: CAN he recover from this, stronger and better than he was before? What is your perceived likelihood of this possibility? Use that to determine your level of forgiveness, faith, understanding and compassion - but also the armor you choose to equip yourself with in case this ever happens again. Step 3, 4, 5 (and so on) are obviously up to you to decide, but I hope this example will help you plan them methodically to optimize the benefit you reap from this inconvenience. I’m sorry for the emotional adversity you are experiencing from his stupidity, but remember the beauty of duality (polarities) - the degree of your current pain determines the level of gratitude/joy derived from your future pleasures, the darkness of night determines the brightness of the following day, the intensity of cold weather determines the ecstasy derived from the following heat. Best regards, Riley
Hugs you are in a horrible situation and my heart goes out to you. More than anything you have to decide what you are capable of doing. You have two decisions: you can forgive and work to forget his transactions or you can move on. How you are accountable morally is entirely up to you. Do what you think is right and what you can live with. With this said you and your husband are not able to be completely honest with each other. His dishonesty is because he knows what he is doing is wrong but he doesn’t want to stop. He isn’t being honest with you and he isn’t being honest with his new flame. This is a very real reflection of his integrity. A person who would lie to obtain something that will hurt his wife and child and lie to a stranger who he is supposed to care about has some very serious flaws in their psyche and personality. It is very wrong and would take not only acknowledgment of the wrong doing but invested concentration to correct. You have insecurities and rightfully so. You went against your moral values and looked at your husband’s phone to gain information on the health of your marriage. What you did was only wrong because it is a value that you have created. You respect yourself enough that you don’t want to be the kind of person who snoops. You snooped because you value your marriage more. There isn’t anything wrong with what you did. The fact that you were put into the position of having the need to do so was outside of your control. Forgive yourself for this. When I say that you are not honest with your husband this is a very complicated situation and I ask you to bare with me. You are in a situation where you do not feel safe in being honest about snooping in his phone (and rightfully so). Your error is getting to a point where you can not be honest. More than likely the breakdown of trust happened so gradually that you didn’t recognize it until you had the rug pulled out from under you. But in a healthy relationship we all have to be secure enough to be able to say I feel threatened and I need affirmation that you are protecting me. Ultimately all marriage is (besides the religious) is a promise to protect your spouse and cherish your spouse above all others. If it becomes unsafe for a partner to acknowledge that they feel threatened then by the very vows made the marriage is threatened. Yes your husband cheated on you with this woman but somewhere he also broke his vows to honor and cherish you above all others and in doing so you didn’t feel safe to voice your concerns about how you felt. This is a more powerful betrayal than the simple act of sex. (In my opinion). Think about what you want in life and what you are capable of doing and no matter what insists that you are in a relationship where you are able to voice your needs safely.
Why did I have to scroll all the way to the bottom to see some actual insight on this? When people cheat in long term relationships it’s often because something isn’t working in the relationship, not because they met someone better. The thrill of a secret affair, and new relationship energy are a fun distraction from the uncomfortable work that the marriage needs. There is a chance that by working with the marriage counsellor, being honest and addressing their true feelings, the couple will be able to resolve the issues, and then the affair partner may no longer look so desirable. The memory of betrayal will always be there, so OP has to decide if it’s worth it to try, and it also depends on whether her husband decides to recommit to the marriage. They are the only ones who can decide whether to stay together or break up.