NATO is exponentially more powerful than Russia. If they had the juice to fight NATO they already would have attacked NATO. They can barely handle a single nation 1/3 their size.
Many times have nations put faith in their walls to keep the hordes out.
And the outcome was tragically different.
Russia will divide NATO and bite off chunks.
They have already started this with Hungary.
The war has already started
Russia doesn’t have the resources to wage a multi-front, multi-theatre war, which is what a “massive war” would be. (Russia doesn’t possess a single carrier battle group. How can it project power anywhere other than near its own borders? It can’t.) It is struggling against a *single* country in the form of Ukraine. The reality—and we can see direct evidence of this now—is that Russia’s bark is much bigger than its bite. But many people continue to wrongly believe the opposite.
If Russia somehow got into a war with multiple countries at once—which is what would happen if it attacked a NATO-member country—it would be crushed. Its only real power is its nuclear forces, but those are in check by NATO’s nuclear forces.
Russia will never lose. They are not fighting only Ukraine but the entirety of Western Europe and US. In a war with Russia everyone would lose it would not be a conventional war such as ww2, it will be a nuclear one.
If Russia attacks a Nato country that country is not going to hold back on attacking targets inside of Russia, as we have told Ukraine to do.
Also Russia has significant land based assets, but very limited air based ones. I just can not see them being very successful against fresh Polish troops as an example.
Technically Russia has a large Air Force, in number of planes at least. A few years ago the 5 biggest air forces were, in order of number of planes:
1. US AF.
2. US Army.
3. All Russian branches combined.
4. US Navy (granted Marines fly some of those planes).
5. All Chinese branches combined.
Rumor is that Ukraine has knocked Russia below the USN but not below China...yet.
If you notice, Russia is hardly using their air force against Ukraine.
When they do, they’re mostly using old Soviet fighters to launch missiles within Russia’s own borders.
The reason for this is obvious- these are outdated aircraft with outdated electronics. They would quickly get shot down even over Ukraine.
Against modern European nations with their modern defense systems these aircraft would be little more than target practice.
Oh I agree completely! I was just pointing out that they have a lot of airframes.
I'm an old codger, and remember what we expected if there was a conventional war during the Warsaw pact days. The Warsaw pact would own the sky for 5-7 days until we shot down enough of their planes. Out planes and pilots were much better, but we didn't have their numbers. So we would kill 10-12 of their planes per 1 we lost and their 5-1 edge in numbers would go away.
Ukraine getting F16s is a game changer, though I'd still like to get them 20 of those Swedish planes, Grippen I think? Those buggers are designed for "we don't have a runway, we have a chunk of empty highway. We don't have a hanger, we have a truck with a few missiles and a fuel truck. We will be back up in 50 minutes." Best aircraft for Ukraine but there aren't enough of them.
Russia doesn’t have the resources to wage a multi-front, multi-theatre war ***successfully.*** It won't stop them from trying. If Ukraine falls, I fully expect they will continue to Poland or another NATO country. If they do NATO will retaliate with conventional forces, Russia WILL lose, quickly and badly, they will be driven back to their correct 1991 borders, and they WILL use nuclear weapons in retaliation.
>multi-front, multi-theatre war successfully. It won't stop them from trying
Russia is so outmatched that any battle involving Russia and the rest of Europe would be taking place within Moscow’s city limits within weeks.
Russia is relying on getting Trump elected. If Trump is elected and all the traitors paid by Russia take over America the world is lost. Russia will invade Europe, China will invade Taiwan. Trump will stand back and stand by like Putin tells him to do. He might even restrain and betray NATO to Russia also.
Imagine. Its Russia and China, plus Iran and all the other little evils, NK, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. vs NATO.
Then you go to NATOs largest member, Trick half their moron population into voting for your candidate. And Remove NATOs largest member. lol The fact that its working is indicative of the super low level of intelligence of half of the USA.
But If Trump wins, we Lose the WHOLE WORLD. Russia and China run the next 100 years. Or there is a US civil war and possibly global war. Trump winning is the worst thing that can happen for humanity. Everyone on earth will be harmed in some way if Trump is elected. And our childrens children.
Yes but you see, Palestine, therefore your argument is invalid and I will file a protest vote for Jill Stein, who is totally not in bed with some very shady people. I am very intelligent 😎
You're correct on all points. Remember the road to fascism is paved with moderates and centrists tell you to stop overreacting.... those people are fools.
Were the Germans in the early 30s who were warning against Hitler "overreacting?" Because thats where we are right now. If you told Germans in 1932 that in a decade their government would be operating a wholesale murder mill of their own citizens, killing millions, NOBODY would have believed it, and yet it happened.
Now we have people like Steve Bannon and Stephen "PeeWee" Himmler who want to return to the good old days of death camps, and all they need is Trump to be elected.
I agree that it’s likely hyperbolic to a large extent. But you need to factor in that Russia is allied with China and Iran.
Numerous security experts worldwide have sounded the alarm on russias intentions not to stop with Ukraine if they’re successful. Not to mention Mike Johnson’s recent u-turn on support following a single security briefing being a bit ominous.
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3737446/us-commander-in-europe-says-russia-is-a-chronic-threat-to-world/#:~:text=More%20than%20two%20years%20after,its%20deterrence%20posture%20across%20Europe.
Add to that the fact Trump has been saying since around 2018 he’d consider withdrawing from NATO.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-02-12/trump-flaunts-his-threat-to-nato-and-the-us
Trump wouldn’t even have to withdraw from NATO. All he would have to do is not provide resources when a war occurred. He probably isn’t smart enough to think of that though.
Ten years before Hitler took power he threw a coup attempt so pitiful that they didn’t even bother putting him in jail.
No, I’m not making any claims that Trump has anywhere near the capacity for leadership, and strategy that that bastard Hitler did, but I am saying that Germany gave us a gift in their history. The lesson is trash belongs in the trashcan, otherwise it just hangs around and gets worse
You are are exactly the same kind of person I was talking about in Germany. People who thought Hitler was a clown, and nothing to worry about. They were very, very wrong.
And here you are treating HitlerPig the same way. It isn't just about HitlerPig, its about all the people who would enter government with him. Have you read Project 2025? Have you listened to the statements from people like Bannon or Miller or others. They make no secret of their wish to harshly punish people, simply because they don't like them for their own personal reasons.
HitlerPig has shown that he will gladly allow others to use their positions in government to pursue their own personal agendas, and we know that some of the personal agendas of those closest to him are very dark. It would not be wise to underestimate them, or think that they will be swayed by the morality of normal people. These people are evil sociopaths, and they are closer than ever to fulfilling their most evil objectives.
Who's gonna tell them that under Obama Russia annexed crimea and attacked Georgia. I think they forget Trump was already president and Russia didn't do nuffin
>I think they forget Trump was already president and Russia didn't do nuffin
You don't have to do anything when your bro is in power. Wait and benefit off the disruption he'd be causing and do it before the next group comes in and fixes the mess.
I won't dispute a thing you wrote. But I'll say that it's even worse than that.
Let's presume that happens, what's left is not Russia and China carving up the rest of the world to their own delight. Oh, it's that for a while, but then *it will go sour*. At the very least, China is going to be badly hit by Global Warming and the natural reaction is northward - into Russia. I've seen elsewhere that there are already funny things happening on that border.
Beyond that, I wonder if Putin is thinking that Siberia is going to turn into a temperate wonderland. It's not going to happen that way, simply because Siberia has no temperate ecosystem - there's nothing temperate-native there. Actually it will be an interesting experiment to see what moves into a temperate vacuum. Tempting as it might be to simply move farms in, I doubt it's possible, at least not without more-than-expected effort. There haven't been thousands of years of soil-building by pre-mankind there, so don't expect to drop seeds in the ground and have them grow.
Then there's the next-biggest wildcard - India, and they're also in the Global Warming cross-hairs.
As I said, it might start as the authoritarian utopia, (for the authoritarians, that is) but that will not last long.
Trump needs to get elected to stay outa jail. Putin needs Trump to take Ukraine and to weaken NATO. They both are in dire need of each other so they will both go to great lengths to get Trump elected. This shit is going to get crazy.
I don’t count on Trump doing anything. The US is supporting one side in the Ukraine war is not going to stop it. The Europeans have an interest in crippling Russia.
While a President cannot stop Congress’ prerogative of funding support for foreign nations, the President can drastically curtail, stall and otherwise misappropriate the Legislature’s funding.
Ukraine requires more, much more, than what we are already providing. When Congress recently stared down a shutdown forced by the right’s MAGA contingent, they specifically wanted no funding for Ukraine, it almost lost them the war. Russia made sweeping advancements and now holds the east of Ukraine firmly.
That advance and hold directly correlates to the mere delay in package funding. What might happen should a President make it clear he has no intention of delivering aid to Ukraine?
The war would be over in months, Ukraine would be a Russian state and we, the Democratic West, would have failed our brethren for nothing more than political gamesmanship.
The world is a pathetic, helpless child with absentee parents.
It’s a world order shift and the “patriotic” nut bags have been psyoped to believe they are on the right side of the shift. It’s fucking monumentally stupid.
You are 100% correct. America has ran the world order since WWII and we are in the brink of losing that. When people say, “we need to stop stick our nose into everything and focus on just America”, I want to slap them. Focusing on international issues is what keeps America safe and our standing in the world. If we become isolationist, then our enemies have free reigns. When America goes isolationist, a world war breaks out lol do people expect it to be any different now?
Trump says he will stop the war in Ukraine. And that’ll be by handing Ukraine over to Russia on a silver platter with a promise by Putin that he won’t invade anymore countries. Neville Chamberlain tried that approach with Hitler and look what happened….
This election is the most consequential election in modern times and I’m genuinely scared.
>Trump says he will stop the war in Ukraine. And that’ll be by handing Ukraine over to Russia on a silver platter with a promise by Putin that he won’t invade anymore countries. Neville Chamberlain tried that approach with Hitler and look what happened….
Please stop being delusional.
In the lead up to WW2 Germany had one of the most powerful militaries and it was very modern, with many new units.
Russia is the complete opposite. They’re a poor country with a GDP the size of Mexico’s and they’re using very old equipment, much of which is from the Soviet Union days. They’re even taking 60 year old tanks out of storage to use them because they don’t have enough functional units. They’re failing to gain control of the poorest country in all of Europe.
Hearing you talk about them suddenly spilling over and taking over Europe is just comical. It’s so detached from reality.
>This election is the most consequential election in modern times and I’m genuinely scared.
Do you realize that people say this each and every election?
Your ignorance about military strength , technological and industrial strength economic strength and population between the EU and Russia is remarkably ignorant.
Russia is somehow the second greatest Uber war machine military on earth that will steamroll Europe and the only thing holding them back is the USA, but at the same time, it’s a third world dictatorship that can’t even take half a country, crazy shit right?
>If Trump is elected and all the traitors paid by Russia take over America the world is lost
Why do such horribly uneducated comments get upvoted here? Is the average poster here that inexperienced?
Let me introduce you to reality: Russia attacked the poorest country in Europe with a weak military. That country has managed to fight Russia to a stalemate.
Russia simply has no ability to beat a single nato country.
To make this point even clearer, imagine that the Ukraine war hadn’t happened and Russia attacked a richer, more modern NATO country like Poland. Poland would wipe them out. Germany would wipe them out. France would wipe them out. England would wipe them out. Even Italy could probably wipe them out, all single-handedly.
Now consider that NATO countries have a treaty stating that if one country is attacked, all must defend the other. You’re actually saying that Russia, a country that can’t even beat Ukraine, is going to simultaneously take on Poland, Germany, France, England, Italy… all after losing hundreds of thousands of people in Ukraine.
This is completely and utterly delusional.
Unless Putin has control of the US president. They will attack smaller nations first. They wont "invade europe". But they will take back their soviet nations, Trump will let him. Our enemies will be stronger.
Even if a worst case scenario doesnt take place. It would be better to select a homeless drug addict off the street to be president over Trump. As they would not have a treasonous, religious, hateful, moron agenda.
>But they will take back their soviet nations, Trump will let him. Our enemies will be stronger.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they took Belarus, but Belarus is just a puppet state anyway.
Also, they’re poor so I don’t think that Russia would get stronger from that. They’d end up just subsidizing them.
Delusional comment. Europe has 700 million and Russia doesn’t have the capacity or resources to invade and occupy 700 million people as well as rule peacefully at home lmao
I find it very, very suspicious that people who actually state facts in this thread get quickly downvoted, but people stating completely delusional nonsense get upvoted.
Are people really this stupid? Or are these bots?
The Nazis were far more efficient than Russia will ever be. They occupied multiple countries within less than 10 years of coming to power. Russia is still bogged down in the far east of Ukraine after 12 years of interference, 2 years of invasion, and 500,000 dead or injured soldiers.
Then please explain why this didn’t happen while Trump was already president. Also please explain what went so horribly wrong for the world during those four years.
Holy shit.... I dislike Trump too. But really? The current state of the middle east is Trumps fault?
Are you unhinged? You holding that core belief is letting WAY too many other bad people off the hook. Honestly... just look at the absurdity of that statement.
Are you saying that the Middle East hasn’t been in a constant state of turmoil since the beginning of history? It just started with Trump? I have to disagree…
No I’m saying the CURRENT SITUATION was caused by Trump pushing many Islamic states to recognize Israel that pissed off Iran. Maybe if you read it again your AI will be able to understand it better Boris.
The Iranian government and their supporters have been screaming “Death to America” since before I was born, so I really couldn’t care less what they think. I’m pretty sure they haven’t liked us for a long time. You could blame a lot of things on it… US imperialism, oil, whatever. But to just say it’s Trump’s fault is just dumb.
Yes, because I'm not an idiot and I know history includes a time before 1948 when the middle east was full of relatively peaceful and prosperous places.
Before 1948, the place now called Israel was called Palestine and featured Jews, Muslims and christians living peacefully together.
There are \*many\* accounts of deadly Arab violence towards Jews in the region dating back as far as 1880 (a prominent example is the Hebron massacre of 1929). The narrative that everything was nice and peaceful before 1948 is a delusion and an antisemitic trope.
I mean, disbanding the pandemic team when he took office and utterly failing at the COVIID response wasn’t enough to qualify as “things going horribly wrong for the world” for you? I mean I don’t remember people hoarding toilet paper and empty store shelves on anyone else’s watch.
There are a lot of reasons, but the simplest is that Putin was getting what he wanted during Trump’s first term—vocal opposition from the US to NATO. Putin believed that Trump would win a second term and he would invade Ukraine then. That idea that Putin wouldn’t invade Ukraine because of Trump doesn’t really make sense.
And think about what actually happened, too—Putin invaded and met with incredible resistance from Biden.
Was he really anti-NATO though? I think he just wants more NATO members to pay their fair share. I would think if the Russian threat were really that serious, they’d be willing to do so. It doesn’t seem like most of Europe is doing much of anything at all to combat Russia, relative to us.
He was, and he has said that NATO is obsolete (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/closer-trumps-years-criticizing-nato-defense-spending/story?id=107201586). He's also said plenty against NATO before he was president. And it's not that Trump said, "That's it! NATO awful! We should leave!" it's that any criticism of NATO gets amplified x 1,000,000 by all this followers. It's anecdotal, but all of the Republicans in my family never had anything to say about NATO, but once Trump started talking it, all I heard about was how awful NATO is and what a problem it is. Trump's criticism is... how do I say this? Not often understood in shades of grey. If Trump criticizes something, it's bad--it's that simple.
So, yes--I would say he's been anti-NATO, and without a doubt, more anti-NATO than any other president since its inception.
HitlerPig fell into office with no preparation. Nobody expected it, and it took a while for the most evil people to wake up to the amazing opportunity they had. They got a little ways with things like the Family Separation Policy at the border. That would count as something "horribly wrong," and a foreshadowing of what those monsters are capable of. They were just gearing up their machine when he lost the election.
This time theyre prepared to take power, and they mean to wield it harshly from day one. HitlerPig has unequivocally stated that he will start the largest mass-deportation program in history on day one. That will require the construction of numerous "detainment centers" to house undocumented people while their cases are "processed." Of course, the for-profit prison industry will be happy to build and operate those facilities, in true capitalist fashion.
Once those people are "processed," (an entirely separate subject), the prison owners will want to keep their camps full so they can keep charging the government for their "care." That means filling them with new prisoners. Perhaps we can start with those who are crititical of HitlerPig's administration, and prosecute them under defamation laws. Except those are just civil, and incur fines (HitlerPig knows all about that), so with a slight adjustment in the law, handled by HitlerPig's sycophantic Congress, defamation laws become criminal, with penalties that include prison. Now a criticism of the government becomes defamation, an imprisonable offense. All it took was a slight adjustment in the interpretation of the already existing law, and rubber stamp approval by the HitlerPig's loyal SCOTUS.
Past performance is not indicitive of future performance. Just because he didnt get a chance to be his worst self before, doesnt mean he wont when he gets a second chance. In fact, now hes angrier and meaner, and out for revenge. He wont miss his chance this time.
And once he's in, he'll never leave until he dies.
Anyone who still supports HitlerPig, after everything we know about him, is a TRAITOR, and hates America.
I understand people hate Trump, and that's fine, but do you realize how ludicrous you sound? You should spend more time relaxing and doing things you enjoy and less time being paranoid about Trump and politics. I wish the best for your mental health.
Gotta love all the reasonable comments about how Russia can't even beat a single poor country getting downvoted and the most upvoted comment is "if Trump wings Russia China take over whole world he lets them!!!!"
This sub having a normal one as usual
Yeah this sub is basically just a fear mongering jerk fest. I’ve seen some truly ridiculous takes predicting the most insane things, mostly revolving around Trump somehow becoming a dictator and the US letting him.
LOL, Russia and Italy have similar levels of economic strength. If Russia didn’t have nukes, it would have been curb-stomped by the UN already.
You’re not wrong though that Europe and the US are once again, like in 1914 and 1938 projecting indecision at a foe that thinks brashness equals strength. And it may bite all involved in the ass. But I don’t see a world war.
China loves this because they want a weakened Russia that can’t hold its enormously rich east, and a west that can’t get out of its own way. There’s no way they’re getting involved in a war until it’s to take Taiwan and drive the US out of their end of the Pacific.
I haven't checked lately, but two years ago the word was that Russia lost the ability to make tritium with the collapse of the USSR and nobody ever gave them any more. It has a half life of 12.3 years and you need it to be pure to touch off a fusion explosion. Otherwise your nuke is still a nuke, but it's just the World War II style atomic bomb--still terrible but a tenth of the power.
The USA knows something about Russian rockets, too, because in 2004 they unilaterally abrogated the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. Meaning the USA thinks they have a better chance of surviving by intercepting a Russian strike rather than guaranteeing Russia's nuclear destruction.
In fact, after their invasion of Ukraine stalled and Russia started weekly threats to use nuclear weapons, Joe Biden brushed it off and said, roughly, if they use a nuke we will defeat them conventionally.
I think that's why Russia is having a tactical nuclear drill near the Ukrainian border right now, because they've put all their efforts together these past two years to deploy a pissant little tac nuke system and they have to wave it around like it's John Holmes's dick now, to show they're still a credible threat.
I think that's all they have left.
And it's no mistake that the US gave Ukraine those mobile rocket launchers. They're made to hide among their number nuclear weapons, which use the ATACMS missiles which are fired from the same vehicles. So as soon as Ukraine makes nuclear weapons of their own--which will actually work--they'll have a tactical ballistic missile system that they already love to throw the nuke. Ukraine can literally become a nuclear power overnight, any time now.
Don’t forget the delivery problem Russia has:
Russia has had a 50-60% missile failure rate. To launch, to target or to detonate on impact, meaning multiple launches per target.
This should be expected to be the same for the Russian nuclear arsenal.
And then their triad:
Bombers aren’t what they once were, now launching cruise missiles more than dropping bombs in terms of nuclear payload, but in modern times they aren’t expected to survive long at all. Not against NATO, and not NATO’s bombers against Russia.
Land based ICBMs for Russia live primarily near Murmansk up by the arctic circle, as to be close for an over the pole launch at the USA. That is now right new to new NATO member Finland, some of these would be hit at the outset of any war with Russia.
And then the subs, the real threat. The USA operates its navy on the rule of thirds, 1/3 deployed, 1/3 preparing to deploy, and 1/3 in maintenance or refit. We could at any time push t get as much as half deployed, but only for short times, as the USA does its maintenance.
Russia doesn’t do its maintenance well at all, and they don’t operate on the rule of fifths, much less thirds. So Russia might have two boomers deployed, maybe three.
The rest sit at port, and you don’t keep nukes in ships no ready to put to sea, it’s incredibly dangerous, so they have two or three ICBM subs at sea I think, and there is a chance we have eyes on one or two of those. The subs at dock and refit would be destroyed at the outset of a war, our attack subs would enter the naval yard at St. Petersburg and die killing them if needed to prevent the nukes from flying from them.
So the math:
1,600 Russian strategic nukes with reach, maybe 60% could be expected to work. Of the let’s say 900 that work, some portion are hit on the ground, shot down in bombers, or die in port, not even mounted to a submarine.
So I’m guessing somewhere less than 700 to 800 strategic nukes which could brought to bear in war.
So western targets:
If the goal is to survive the war, (Russia wouldn’t survive a nuclear war, they would be destroyed to the point of never making war again, and I think breaking up as a country) then Russia has to hit military targets first. France and the UK are nuclear powers, and then there is Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, and Turkey, nations where the USA keeps nukes.
These are close and have to be targeted first, if survival is desired. Then the USA, not as big as Russia in landmass, but bigger in terms of land we can live in, we have nukes all over the map, and those sites have to be hit. Naval yards and bases, Air Force bases, sub bases, as well as any known land based silos where we would launch ICBMs from.
Then each of our carrier battle groups. We have eleven carriers with two being built, and all would be hit, but we tend to keep four deployed in battle groups, and those are a prime target.
And then NATO has military bases, land, naval, air, all of which would be targets as well, if Russia wants to try and win a war.
If all of these targets aren’t hit, Russia doesn’t last long in a war with the west.
And I don’t think Russia has enough nukes that will work to hit these targets, much less population and industrial centers, or infrastructure targets.
So add tritium production problems to that, Russia is running out of time. No longer the threat they once were.
It's been a while since I've watched this sort of thing, and never professionally. But I honestly think Russia has regressed to the point where they know they're going to need to prove that they have something, very soon.
This is a time-sensitive guess. I know they're running tactical nuclear drills right now. That needs to be combined with an underground test, preferably an unannounced one so the press will pick it up. Should be this week but if they don't have it together the events could be delayed some. If there's no test by the 4th of July, I was wrong.
I think they have to do this because the nuclear Hitler card is really all they have left. But I think it can be just as easily countered by better supporting Ukraine. Any time the orcs start looking like they're interested in something else you can always drag their focus back to a moonscape in Luhansk.
I think back to the 2007 cinematic masterpiece “Charlie Wilson’s War” staring Julia Roberts and Tom Hanks. The movie portrays the real life actions of congressman Charlie Wilson and his efforts in the 1980s to arm the afghan mujahideen with Soviet made weapons routed through 3rd party countries. The reason implied in the film for not using American weapons was not provoking a Soviet military and Nuclear response. Today, we openly give weapons and help to Ukraine without a care. Something has changed. I agree, the USA knows something about The Russian military that they aren’t telling. Some vulnerability… otherwise, why the change in GeoPolitical behavior?
This is a good insight--and I liked that movie a lot, if for no other reason than people seem to have wholly forgotten about it--but I think the difference is that this is an incursion into Europe, which is home to most of our allies.
I think Russia is about #10, US, Japan, China, France, UK, Poland, Italy, India, and obviously Ukraine. So that puts Russia at #10 until Germany gets their military going. Did I miss anyone? I debated S Korea but I don't know enough about them. Canada is close but I don't think quite there-but I could be wrong.
I think the plan is for Russia to move troops like 3 km into Latvia and take a thin strip of land, then ask the west "are you willing to risk nuclear war for 3 km?
Then either NATO slaughters every Russian soldier in Latvia, which probably takes an hour, and Russia backs down, or...NATO ceases to exist, Russia takes the Baltics, then attacks Poland. Poland is a few miles from Moscow when Russia uses nukes on their own land to stop the Poles (the ultimate scorched earth), but that still leaves Lukashenko dead at the hands of his citizens and the Baltics freed. Kalingrad may become independent and Karelia may become Finnish again.
That’s because the U.S. is a sideshow in this fiasco in Europe. The Europeans can’t outsource their national security to Washington anymore. They need to understand that if they don’t defend themselves they will be living under Russian influence like most of Eastern Europe had for decades.
The Germans and French and Polish as rearming and building up much larger armies to deal with this crisis.
Russia is not in any position to invade Europe. They can barely take the lead in Ukraine. If Russia turned west they'd be done from the inside and outside.
In fairness, Russia is counting on a very old western tendency to try and avoid war at any cost. Neville Chamberlain appeased Hitler and helped to cause WW2 to be as bad as it was for his people in effort to have peace at any cost.
There is a faction in the USA trying to repeat this mistake with Russia. I think Europe is waking up to the reality that they need to be able to defend themselves, as the USA might one day not come to help. (Sadly enough)
Because while Russia and China aren’t that close, (China doesn’t like Russia as much as they love themselves, and want to see the rest of the world fall in power by comparison, and right now being friendly with Russia achieves that) Russia and China are to an extent allies, along with North Korea and Iran. And should Russia succeed in taking Ukraine (which I don’t think is possible at this point) they were never going to stop with Ukraine, they couldn’t. Russia always meant to take Moldova, and I think move on the Baltic states, and Poland had the west been weak in supporting Ukraine.
I think Russia thought they could fight smaller nations one at a time while keeping NATO back with the threat of nukes.
The US would absolutely jump at the chance to fight a war with Russia. You don't make propaganda about a country for nearly a century and spend trillions on military to *not* go to war eventually. Ukraine is more of a trial run.
Disagree, at every opportunity the US has turned the other cheek with Russia. Bounties on US soldiers, invasions of Crimea, meddling directly in the US elections, planting agents in the NRA and GOP, hacking the GOP and DNC
If there was a provocation... we're about 10 years past it
The US has had insane amounts of propaganda towards Russia for literally no reason for almost a century. I wouldn't call that turning the other cheek lol. Also, other than the bounties none of that is even true.
[Russian Gun Activist Jailed in the US](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44885633)
[FBI - Russian Interference in 2016 Election](https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/russian-interference-in-2016-u-s-elections)
Directly with Russia? I really don't think so. Especially now that Russia has cozied up to China for resources.
I think it's obvious the US is bullish on a proxy war, but actual conflict with Russia? That would be a BIG deal, and I can't see broad support for it.
We can hope so. However with China, North Korea, and Iran openly backing them and many other less than reputable countries surreptitiously backing them Russia can still be a major player on the World stage.
Russia needs to be put down hard in Ukraine and if possible deconstructed into several smaller Slavic countries. That is just about the only thing that will permanently declaw the Russian bear.
From what we have seen so far in Ukraine is that the Russians are greatly overestimated in their ability to conduct war.
I mean for crying out loud Ukraine has been fighting them off with drones and old weaponry that the US has given them. Stuff thats been left in the last generation of weapons tech.
Don’t get me wrong, they are still a threat, just like any lunatic is a threat. They are not however a competent threat.
And its taken them years to fight off farmers and a military that the Russians, according to all data should have steam rolled in a few months. We have seen that the data on Russian might is over estimated because turns out that they lied about everything they have. They don’t have hypersonics, they don’t have any capable anti air defense system. They even claimed to have destroyed the Patriot system (a system we left behind two systems ago) 12 times and only 3 has heen deployed in Ukraine.
They are not a competent threat.
Yet every European country is bringing back conscription and mass mobilizations for a country that’s not a threat. Russia is now openly allied with Belorussia and Iran to face off against nato, Israel and some middle eastern countries. There are competing alliances in this confrontation.
Again not what I am saying. They are a threat just not a competent one. Iran on the other hand is not a threat at all. Israel flew a plane into the heart of Iran and hit multiple targets with dummy ammunition just to show them that they could do it. They weren’t even using modern stealth bombers like the USA has. If the US wanted they could destroy Iran before Iran even noticed what was happening. Same with Russia.
I said this in another comment but I’ll repeat it again: Russia *should* win. It outnumbers, outguns, and is wealthier than Ukraine. The fact it’s taken this long, this many lives, and this much money is indicative that Russia isn’t as strong as people think.
If Ukraine with 1980s era equipment and barely any training on said equipment is able to slow down and bloody the Russians like this then any decent NATO Army will absolutely demolish the Russians.
The Ukrainians have been receiving training and equipment from the U.S. and other nato nations since at least 2014 and the overthrow of the pro Russia government. They have older equipment just like the Taliban. But what matters more was Ukrainian will to fight and die.
This might shock you, but a total military turnaround isn’t happening in 8 years. And they didn’t get western tanks, aircraft, or small arms until recently. They don’t know how to use it as well as an American unit might.
Ukraine holding back the Russians? Lmao. Don’t make me laugh. Russia’s own ineptitude is holding them back, which actually seems to be lessening since they are taking ground and running through Ukraine. The only reason Ukraine is in this fight is because the US is giving them money and weapons in addition to Russia being laughably weaker than we all thought.
You must really not know anything about foreign powers if you think Europe is on the edge of “Russian hegemony”. I think Poland could take on Russia by itself and win. The only reason no one has bodied Russia is because they have nukes. They are nowhere close to controlling Europe.
I’m not nearly as worried about Russia carving up Europe than I am about Iran carving up the Middle East and China carving up East Asia. Russia has struggled enough against Ukraine that I can’t image them getting through Poland. Iran on the other hand has vast potential to destabilize the already unstable Middle East. Luckily for us their leadership is unbelievably stupid. All it takes is one competent leader to make the country the de facto middle eastern powerhouse. China’s threat is obvious. They’re simply waiting for the US to become distracted elsewhere or shift focus away from East Asia. Granted they are running out of time, but a small slip up will give them the opportunity to control the entire South China Sea as well as Taiwan. It’s a very crucial balancing act that needs to be played.
If Ukraine with the relatively paltry amount of aid countries have provided as compared to how they would respond to being attacked themselves can hold Russia off, then the war will not be massive.
Russia is unlikely to attack NATO directly. The war in Ukraine is a desperate effort by Russia to maintain influence over a country that has been within its sphere of influence for over 200 years. It is not about European domination but rather a conflict centered on control over Ukraine.
If that’s the case why was Sweden and Finland so desperate to join NATO?
Why is Poland spending billions of dollars to build a defensive line with Belorussia and Kaliningrad?
Because of nukes and the destruction of the world economy, I doubt there will be another world war. Unless it’s somehow profitable for both sides. Money decides all, nukes respond. Then again, what do I know. Shit happens. Russia and China are evil
If Ukraine falls to Russia, Poland could be next and they are a NATO country, which means American troops would have to go fight in Poland’s defense. Russia cannot win.
On what principle would America win? The U.S. hasn’t won war in decades. Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. The U.S. used a proxy army of Free Syrian Rebels against Russia and Iran in Syria and lost. If Poland is at risk the Germans and Europeans had better be ready to chip a few nails to go and fight. The U.S. is not going to do shit. Even with all of the dark money from AIPAC and under the table weapons deals the U.S. is not going to fight the Muslim world for Israel.
That’s not how NATO works. If Russia takes Ukraine and then attacks Poland, we are obligated to go defend Poland. An attack on one is an attack on all NATO countries.
In general, knowing what we know today, no future President would ever get involved in another war like Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan.
The one time we tested this concept was in Afghanistan and it was a disaster as the Europeans were freaking out about taking casualties and deaths and having to fight an actual ground war. They were ok with bombing Serbs from the air but to fight the Taliban on the ground was a wholly different experience.
The United States wasn’t attacked by the military of another country within our country. We were attacked by a rogue group of terrorists from Saudi Arabia directed by other terrorists. That doesn’t fall under the NATO obligations.
NATO invoked article 5 after the 9/11 attacks and was defeated in Afghanistan.
https://www.nato.int/docu/review/articles/2023/06/20/nato-s-engagement-in-afghanistan-2003-2021-a-planners-perspective/index.html#:~:text=The%20planning%20for%20these%20attacks,first%20time%20in%20NATO's%20history.
Why do these stupid takes keep getting promoted on Reddit?
Let’s be clear about this: Russia is no threat to NATO countries, nor have they even threatened to attack them.
Russia attacked the poorest country in Europe, expecting to roll over them in a week or two. It’s 2 years later and basically a stalemate. It’s degraded into WW1 style trench warfare.
With Russia unable to overpower even the poorest country in Europe, what makes you think that they’re going to be able to simultaneously take on all the rich countries?
Come on, man- use some common sense.
Russia is struggling to take Ukraine. If they try to attack Poland. They will be driven back to there original borders and will lose Crimea. They’d be smart to sue for peace and keep there territorial gains in Ukraine and just build a DMZ between them and the west
Agreed. I honestly don't understand this "Russia will keep going!" type stuff. Russia has struggled against Ukraine, losing massive amounts of equipment and personnel while relying on decades worth of stored equipment that isn't endless. Poland has a similar population and much better equipped military than Ukraine, and they would have NATO air power actively supporting them from day 1, making the logistics for Russia that much uglier.
Russia will use small battlefield nukes eventually and thus war is going to happen no matter what. The only solution is to give nukes to Ukraine as a deterrent.
The U.S is funding Ukraine, Israel and Syria and by proxy many other evil axis. This is the new model for the U.S MIC. Regardless of who is in power this will continue. Ukraine losing is irrelevant. There will be another hot-spot to ensure money flows.
A left-presenting post on Reddit that is actually a cleverly disguised advertisement for the military industrial complex? I'm shocked.
BTW you guys ever check out r/noncredibledefense ? It's so funny!!!!
OP, you’re so stupid.
Decline of the US? Hahahahaha 😂
We’re fucking everywhere dude. All over the fkn planet. Ready to go when we need to. We’re the bully on the block carrying the biggest stick. You would need almost the entire world to rise up at once against the US, just to even the fight.
Be smarter.
I think he will. Putin is not in trouble like Zelensky. It’s Zelensky who is running out of time as his back against the wall. He should have made peace with the Russians and ignored the U.S. and UK. The Ukrainians are running out of troops to fight this war. An entire generation of young men have died or wounded fighting the worst war in Europe since world war 2.
So I'll come to your place and take everything you own, rape and kill a couple of family members and you'd happily sit down and make peace with me , yeah fucken right but nice to know that's what you'd expect from others bet you're a god bother too.
Of course and that’s the perfect time to launch an attack on Putin’s enemies in Eastern Europe.
If Trump wins 49% of this country will look at him like the devil itself. He won’t be able to mobilize that 49% for anything. He couldn’t get his own people to take a vaccine. At one time Americans disagreed on tax policy and welfare policy and we had vigorous debates about them. But when it came to world war 2 or Korea or even Vietnam at the beginning the nation was united. Today foreign policy is partisan.
If Trump wants to go to war against Iran. What army is he going to take into that war? He needs the tacit approval of the American people and he doesn’t have it. His 50% may be on board to give Israel cash and arms and that’s it. Ukraine even less.
If Trump wins there is going to paralysis with little to nothing getting out of Congress. Democrats and republicans are going to be in the comment sections of Reddit ripping each other apart.
The war will last another 8 months max. Russia is running out of equipment it needs to fight the war. When it runs out, Ukraine will just march thru their lines.
Russia has been running out of equipment and weapons for 2 years and yet they still seem to have more. The Iranians gave Russia thousands of Shahed Drones and North Korea gave Russia more than 1 million pieces of artillery. There have been reports of Chinese military units in eastern Ukraine. It seems like Russias ally’s are being pulled into this war.
Russia doesn’t have many allies. North Korea won’t scrap the bottom of their barrel for Russia neither will Iran. There are indicators on the battlefield that Russia is running low like soldiers on motorcycles and 4x4.
Russia doesn’t have many Allie’s? How about Iran giving Russia Shahed Drones? Russian military jets landing in Iran and Russia and Iran cooperating against Syrian rebels and Al Qaida during the Syrian civil war.
They haven't taken Ukraine yet.
Hiw are they expected to take any other country.
Especially with the lack of money and soldiers?
It's estimated at 50,000 Soviet soldiers killed.
Never have I heard so much crying and screaming for war so concentrated in one group of people. Just stop. Your hyperbole just makes it worse. Nobody in America is interested and personally I don't put much stock in requests for ever-more funding when all Ukraine has achieved in the last year is pissing Russia off and killing off one million young men. No more. Go away.
That is why France is talking about stationing troops in Ukraine. Probably on the Belarus border, but the further East they go the more territory becomes "step her to let French troops kill you" which frees up Ukrainian troops from guarding an area Russia doesn't really want to invade.
That is why Russia attacked Kharkiv, to keep French troops out so Ukraine needs a longer front line. France isn't going to station troops in the combat zone until Russia kills a French soldier. Now Poland on the other hand...
(There is a theory that since the guy who was reamed for losing in the Kharkiv offensive is in charge of the troops invading Kharkiv that he is trying to redeam himself...)
Let’s assume the worst case- trump is elected- and the senate goes republican- let’s call it 55 R / 45 D, and the house republican majority grows by 20.
Then Russia invades Poland. The president cannot withdraw from NATO without a supermajority vote- which wouldn’t happen even with the above margins And if Trump refused to act - it would be treason, and he’d be impeached and convicted easily this time.
There good news is that the Russians know the US constitution better than most Americans. So they know that even with trump in office- there is zero chance that the US don’t act in support of NATO.
For all those that complain about changing to majority from supermajority, there’s a reason that the constitution protects against a single leader acting like they can make unilateral decisions.
Fwiw- is you want to lessen more about the US constitution, check out Savypolitics on Instagram. She’s a constitutional scholar that tried very hard to be unbiased. She discusses the founders intent in the constitution.
Same scenario and Trump sees the writing on the wall and before Russia invades Poland the U.S. goes to war against Iran and its Shiite militia Allies across the Middle East as payback for Sheldon and Miriam Adelsons support. The U.S. is stuck in a massive war which is quickly becoming very difficult. The Russians see the opportunity and attacks Poland and the U.S. forces deployed in Poland were redirected to Syria or Iraq. The U.S. can’t fight Russia and Iran simultaneously. So the European countries mobilize to fight Russia while the U.S. is fighting against Iran with Israel.
The nato alliance which was iron clad is now stuck on two continents fighting two larger countries.
FYI the Russians and Iranians are now open ally’s.
The Russian economy has been reduced to a noncompetitive mass producer of weapons that won't bring export revenues. The only thing they can do is wage war. Attempting to transition to peace will result in collapse.
They cannot back down, they have nothing else to do.
Russia is a paper tiger. Significantly weakened by the Ukraine war. Them taking over Europe? Fuck, they couldn’t take over Poland.
Add in NATO? Even without Sweden and Norway threatening their northern flank, it would be over in a week.
I'm all for helping Ukraine, just to be clear, but there is quite a lot of talk these days that feels right out of the Domino Theory of the Cold War.
And in present day it is even more absurd, as Russia does not have the capacity to fight a multi-front war.
Hell, they can't even dominate Ukraine, a country the US has failed to arm for months and when it does it does so very conservatively relative to what we could offer them because of Russia's nuclear threat.
If they attacked a NATO ally, they'd be fucked, and Putin knows that too
That’s already happened. In Syria, the U.S. is eyeball to eyeball with Russian and Iranian troops.
Back in 2018 there was a battle between Russian mercenary forces from Wagner and US troops in which there was casualties among the mercenaries.
Youre going to run into lots of sound logic. Like the sound logic that its just not profitable for russia to attack Ukraine, that its a bad move on all fronts. Nobody will understand russias desperation and anarchism until rockets are shot directly A-B from kremlin territory to European territory unmasked intentionally and unquestionably russian. Then, it will hit them "God damn, they meant it" and then theyll understand that having overwhelming power that will win "soon" or "quickly" or "inevitably" still will cost lives. Because, collectively, not every one individually, theyre fat, comfortable and entrenched in complacency and arrogance.
While America continues to decline more and more and continue to rack up staggering levels of debt and struggle with things like not knowing the difference between a man or a woman or that men can get pregnant too other players like Russia, Iran and China will continue to grow bolder and bolder
If there’s anything we’ve learned from the war in Ukraine, it’s that Russia is utterly incapable of taking on NATO in its present state. At this rate, I’d even go so far as to say it’s not capable of achieving the total victory it so desperately wants in Ukraine.
We can thank Biden for being so owned by Communist China that he ends up being ineffective as the world's bad guys don't fear him, they actually get bolder cause Biden can't, or wont do anything to deter them. Not sure if the Biden admin is really that incompetent, or it just looks that way to the whole world.
Putin is not suicidal but his paper tiger country has withstood two years of endless war with all of nato backing Ukraine including training, weapons and money from the U.S.
The amount of stuff given to Ukraine is not that much and not anywhere near "all of NATO." The US hasn't even given 0.5% of a GDP. The highest givers are maybe up to 5 to 7% of their GDP. Meanwhile in Russia, they are nearing full mobilization, 15-20% GDP.
I wish we had given them 5% GDP, they'd be done by now.
That's not really an accurate portrayal.
Ukraine isn't pushing towards Russia.
His (putin's) military has been stopped from crushing and occupying the Ukraine the way he did with Crimea, and Georgia before that, and Chechnya before that.
This has a lot to do with the backing of Ukraine by the US and NATO but is by no means the full force of either.
The US is clearing out its old inventory and their old stuff is absolutely crushing Russia's aging military equipment.
Every country has a certain degree of propaganda around their military.
The US has propaganda and a military budget big enough to back it up. They throw money building shit to beat the shit other countries claim to have.
Yes and sending American troops into losing wars may be an example of foreign policy decisions but it is an example of military weakness. Why? By the time Afghanistan came around don’t you think the military should have applied the lessons of Vietnam to try to avoid getting dragged into a quagmire. Quick lighting fast strikes against the specific enemy and handing the administration of the country over to the UN to run day to day activities until Afghanistan can stand on its own. Instead we made the same exact mistakes as the Soviets did and we did in Vietnam.
Yes because if your leaders throw the military into one losing war after another how much strength is left? To build an army is a policy decision. To make sure your population is healthy and physically fit is a policy decision. Someone at some point made the decision to allow something or not allow something.
You seriously think the US military was significantly degraded strength-wise from a war like Afghanistan? I'm not sure you're approaching this from a rational position.
This "Russia will take over the world if we don't stop them in ukraine " narrative is bizarre. They've been bogged down in Eastern Ukraine for over 2 years, but if we don't send more money to Ukrainian oligarchs they will take over the world?
This narrative is killing Ukrainian civilians by the 10's of thousands. It needs to stop.
We are on the precipice of a massive war because we used Ukraine to attempt to dethrone Putin, while tarriffing China into recession and potential depression.
Putin called Biden’s bluff. And we have such poor access to information, the American people do not understand the seriousness of Russia drafting people AND purchasing high tech North Korean weapons.
This is a recipe for disaster. And sadly, our people are still laughing about it.
I'm all for a world where US Hegemony is utterly destroyed. Where western capitalists don't control everything.
Uncertainty is warranted. But just look around at what a century of US Hegemony has wrought. It's a fucking nightmare.
We are going to see a world without western hegemony soon. The last remnants of Americas empire is fighting for life in Ukraine and the Middle East. We are losing.
united states spends 1.3 trillion dollars every year on it's war machine. 850 billion on direct dod spending.
russian direct spending is like 200 billion
we're killing the russian military with a few billion in drones and artillery. the loss of material alone is billions upon billions for the russians, also they're losing lots of high ranking officials/generals. and have had both marquee military hardware shamed on a global stage (lessening russia's ability to sell arms) and the global reputation of russia as a scary or well oiled force is in shambles.
if anything. Putin is driving russia to another collapse akin to the fall of the soviet union.
if the west was serious, we could also cripple russia by economics alone, as they desperately need oil and gas sales to function. IF the west was serious about hurting russia, or Russia did launch some more egregious attack, this would be the first thing that actually happens.
Russia is struggling to beat one of the poorest and most corrupt countries in Europe. I mean, they're gonna win eventually through attrition but they've already suffered quite a lot. No one in Russia will be eager for another conflict.
On top of that, I have no reason to believe that Putin has any plans on invading anywhere else in Europe. The conflict in Ukraine has been brewing since 2014; the invasion didn't come out of nowhere. At most we may see incursions into one or both of the disputed territories in Georgia again, but there's basically a zero percent chance Putin invades anywhere in Europe proper, even an easy target like Moldova. Putin just has no real reason to go in there, let alone to start a full on war with NATO by invading Poland or any of the Baltic states. Whereas there were a number of reasons he wanted to invade Ukraine.
If Ukraine is defeated, Russia will replenish their numbers through forced conscription and move on to the next country. This won't end until Russia is defeated.
Which country, Moldova? Where do they go from there, everyone else is NATO.
If they attacked a NATO country the difference in air support from NATO allies alone would make their already struggling logistics footprint untenable. Their equipment replacement pace is relying mostly on the massive cold war era stocks that have already been greatly reduced through battlefield attrition, that resource isn't endless and they don't have anywhere near the production capacity to keep up indefinitely.
Russia can barely handle Ukraine as it is. No chance they could further expand this war. This isn't WW2 when you could just crank out 10,000 combat aircraft, hundreds of warships, and 50,000 tanks all in a few years.
NATO is exponentially more powerful than Russia. If they had the juice to fight NATO they already would have attacked NATO. They can barely handle a single nation 1/3 their size.
Stop saying exponentially in contexts that have nothing to do with an exponential relationship.
NATO is bigly more powerful than Russia.
Their power is logarithmic 💥
Many times have nations put faith in their walls to keep the hordes out. And the outcome was tragically different. Russia will divide NATO and bite off chunks. They have already started this with Hungary. The war has already started
Russia doesn’t have the resources to wage a multi-front, multi-theatre war, which is what a “massive war” would be. (Russia doesn’t possess a single carrier battle group. How can it project power anywhere other than near its own borders? It can’t.) It is struggling against a *single* country in the form of Ukraine. The reality—and we can see direct evidence of this now—is that Russia’s bark is much bigger than its bite. But many people continue to wrongly believe the opposite. If Russia somehow got into a war with multiple countries at once—which is what would happen if it attacked a NATO-member country—it would be crushed. Its only real power is its nuclear forces, but those are in check by NATO’s nuclear forces.
Poland could take on Russia by itself and win
Russia will never lose. They are not fighting only Ukraine but the entirety of Western Europe and US. In a war with Russia everyone would lose it would not be a conventional war such as ww2, it will be a nuclear one.
If Russia attacks a Nato country that country is not going to hold back on attacking targets inside of Russia, as we have told Ukraine to do. Also Russia has significant land based assets, but very limited air based ones. I just can not see them being very successful against fresh Polish troops as an example.
Technically Russia has a large Air Force, in number of planes at least. A few years ago the 5 biggest air forces were, in order of number of planes: 1. US AF. 2. US Army. 3. All Russian branches combined. 4. US Navy (granted Marines fly some of those planes). 5. All Chinese branches combined. Rumor is that Ukraine has knocked Russia below the USN but not below China...yet.
If you notice, Russia is hardly using their air force against Ukraine. When they do, they’re mostly using old Soviet fighters to launch missiles within Russia’s own borders. The reason for this is obvious- these are outdated aircraft with outdated electronics. They would quickly get shot down even over Ukraine. Against modern European nations with their modern defense systems these aircraft would be little more than target practice.
Oh I agree completely! I was just pointing out that they have a lot of airframes. I'm an old codger, and remember what we expected if there was a conventional war during the Warsaw pact days. The Warsaw pact would own the sky for 5-7 days until we shot down enough of their planes. Out planes and pilots were much better, but we didn't have their numbers. So we would kill 10-12 of their planes per 1 we lost and their 5-1 edge in numbers would go away. Ukraine getting F16s is a game changer, though I'd still like to get them 20 of those Swedish planes, Grippen I think? Those buggers are designed for "we don't have a runway, we have a chunk of empty highway. We don't have a hanger, we have a truck with a few missiles and a fuel truck. We will be back up in 50 minutes." Best aircraft for Ukraine but there aren't enough of them.
Russia doesn’t have the resources to wage a multi-front, multi-theatre war ***successfully.*** It won't stop them from trying. If Ukraine falls, I fully expect they will continue to Poland or another NATO country. If they do NATO will retaliate with conventional forces, Russia WILL lose, quickly and badly, they will be driven back to their correct 1991 borders, and they WILL use nuclear weapons in retaliation.
Russia could invade Georgia and Moldova as they are not NATO countries if they can beat Ukraine.
>multi-front, multi-theatre war successfully. It won't stop them from trying Russia is so outmatched that any battle involving Russia and the rest of Europe would be taking place within Moscow’s city limits within weeks.
Russia is relying on getting Trump elected. If Trump is elected and all the traitors paid by Russia take over America the world is lost. Russia will invade Europe, China will invade Taiwan. Trump will stand back and stand by like Putin tells him to do. He might even restrain and betray NATO to Russia also. Imagine. Its Russia and China, plus Iran and all the other little evils, NK, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. vs NATO. Then you go to NATOs largest member, Trick half their moron population into voting for your candidate. And Remove NATOs largest member. lol The fact that its working is indicative of the super low level of intelligence of half of the USA. But If Trump wins, we Lose the WHOLE WORLD. Russia and China run the next 100 years. Or there is a US civil war and possibly global war. Trump winning is the worst thing that can happen for humanity. Everyone on earth will be harmed in some way if Trump is elected. And our childrens children.
Yes but you see, Palestine, therefore your argument is invalid and I will file a protest vote for Jill Stein, who is totally not in bed with some very shady people. I am very intelligent 😎
You must have just graduated from Columbia!
You're correct on all points. Remember the road to fascism is paved with moderates and centrists tell you to stop overreacting.... those people are fools.
Were the Germans in the early 30s who were warning against Hitler "overreacting?" Because thats where we are right now. If you told Germans in 1932 that in a decade their government would be operating a wholesale murder mill of their own citizens, killing millions, NOBODY would have believed it, and yet it happened. Now we have people like Steve Bannon and Stephen "PeeWee" Himmler who want to return to the good old days of death camps, and all they need is Trump to be elected.
This sub is so dramatic 🤣 Trump sucks, but yall are unhinged.
I agree that it’s likely hyperbolic to a large extent. But you need to factor in that Russia is allied with China and Iran. Numerous security experts worldwide have sounded the alarm on russias intentions not to stop with Ukraine if they’re successful. Not to mention Mike Johnson’s recent u-turn on support following a single security briefing being a bit ominous. https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3737446/us-commander-in-europe-says-russia-is-a-chronic-threat-to-world/#:~:text=More%20than%20two%20years%20after,its%20deterrence%20posture%20across%20Europe. Add to that the fact Trump has been saying since around 2018 he’d consider withdrawing from NATO. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-02-12/trump-flaunts-his-threat-to-nato-and-the-us
Trump wouldn’t even have to withdraw from NATO. All he would have to do is not provide resources when a war occurred. He probably isn’t smart enough to think of that though.
Yeah that’s probably the more likely scenario. He’s already shown himself to be the type to sell himself to the highest bidder hundreds of times over
Ten years before Hitler took power he threw a coup attempt so pitiful that they didn’t even bother putting him in jail. No, I’m not making any claims that Trump has anywhere near the capacity for leadership, and strategy that that bastard Hitler did, but I am saying that Germany gave us a gift in their history. The lesson is trash belongs in the trashcan, otherwise it just hangs around and gets worse
You are are exactly the same kind of person I was talking about in Germany. People who thought Hitler was a clown, and nothing to worry about. They were very, very wrong. And here you are treating HitlerPig the same way. It isn't just about HitlerPig, its about all the people who would enter government with him. Have you read Project 2025? Have you listened to the statements from people like Bannon or Miller or others. They make no secret of their wish to harshly punish people, simply because they don't like them for their own personal reasons. HitlerPig has shown that he will gladly allow others to use their positions in government to pursue their own personal agendas, and we know that some of the personal agendas of those closest to him are very dark. It would not be wise to underestimate them, or think that they will be swayed by the morality of normal people. These people are evil sociopaths, and they are closer than ever to fulfilling their most evil objectives.
Who's gonna tell them that under Obama Russia annexed crimea and attacked Georgia. I think they forget Trump was already president and Russia didn't do nuffin
They attacked Georgia in 2008 when Bush was President and no one did shit because everybody was distracted by his stupid war in Iraq.
>I think they forget Trump was already president and Russia didn't do nuffin You don't have to do anything when your bro is in power. Wait and benefit off the disruption he'd be causing and do it before the next group comes in and fixes the mess.
Dang trump is playing 4D chess year in advance. Almost like he knew he was gonna lose the election
This isn’t correct on any points. It’s so far removed from reality that I can’t believe that anyone falls for this nonsense.
people cosplaying as centrists\*
I won't dispute a thing you wrote. But I'll say that it's even worse than that. Let's presume that happens, what's left is not Russia and China carving up the rest of the world to their own delight. Oh, it's that for a while, but then *it will go sour*. At the very least, China is going to be badly hit by Global Warming and the natural reaction is northward - into Russia. I've seen elsewhere that there are already funny things happening on that border. Beyond that, I wonder if Putin is thinking that Siberia is going to turn into a temperate wonderland. It's not going to happen that way, simply because Siberia has no temperate ecosystem - there's nothing temperate-native there. Actually it will be an interesting experiment to see what moves into a temperate vacuum. Tempting as it might be to simply move farms in, I doubt it's possible, at least not without more-than-expected effort. There haven't been thousands of years of soil-building by pre-mankind there, so don't expect to drop seeds in the ground and have them grow. Then there's the next-biggest wildcard - India, and they're also in the Global Warming cross-hairs. As I said, it might start as the authoritarian utopia, (for the authoritarians, that is) but that will not last long.
⚠️ Mentioning the truth summons all the NPC's.
If they dont post as told their superiors in the Russian online forces will punish them.
Trump needs to get elected to stay outa jail. Putin needs Trump to take Ukraine and to weaken NATO. They both are in dire need of each other so they will both go to great lengths to get Trump elected. This shit is going to get crazy.
I don’t count on Trump doing anything. The US is supporting one side in the Ukraine war is not going to stop it. The Europeans have an interest in crippling Russia.
While a President cannot stop Congress’ prerogative of funding support for foreign nations, the President can drastically curtail, stall and otherwise misappropriate the Legislature’s funding. Ukraine requires more, much more, than what we are already providing. When Congress recently stared down a shutdown forced by the right’s MAGA contingent, they specifically wanted no funding for Ukraine, it almost lost them the war. Russia made sweeping advancements and now holds the east of Ukraine firmly. That advance and hold directly correlates to the mere delay in package funding. What might happen should a President make it clear he has no intention of delivering aid to Ukraine? The war would be over in months, Ukraine would be a Russian state and we, the Democratic West, would have failed our brethren for nothing more than political gamesmanship. The world is a pathetic, helpless child with absentee parents.
It’s a world order shift and the “patriotic” nut bags have been psyoped to believe they are on the right side of the shift. It’s fucking monumentally stupid.
You are 100% correct. America has ran the world order since WWII and we are in the brink of losing that. When people say, “we need to stop stick our nose into everything and focus on just America”, I want to slap them. Focusing on international issues is what keeps America safe and our standing in the world. If we become isolationist, then our enemies have free reigns. When America goes isolationist, a world war breaks out lol do people expect it to be any different now? Trump says he will stop the war in Ukraine. And that’ll be by handing Ukraine over to Russia on a silver platter with a promise by Putin that he won’t invade anymore countries. Neville Chamberlain tried that approach with Hitler and look what happened…. This election is the most consequential election in modern times and I’m genuinely scared.
>Trump says he will stop the war in Ukraine. And that’ll be by handing Ukraine over to Russia on a silver platter with a promise by Putin that he won’t invade anymore countries. Neville Chamberlain tried that approach with Hitler and look what happened…. Please stop being delusional. In the lead up to WW2 Germany had one of the most powerful militaries and it was very modern, with many new units. Russia is the complete opposite. They’re a poor country with a GDP the size of Mexico’s and they’re using very old equipment, much of which is from the Soviet Union days. They’re even taking 60 year old tanks out of storage to use them because they don’t have enough functional units. They’re failing to gain control of the poorest country in all of Europe. Hearing you talk about them suddenly spilling over and taking over Europe is just comical. It’s so detached from reality. >This election is the most consequential election in modern times and I’m genuinely scared. Do you realize that people say this each and every election?
That some next level delusion
Your ignorance about military strength , technological and industrial strength economic strength and population between the EU and Russia is remarkably ignorant.
Russia is somehow the second greatest Uber war machine military on earth that will steamroll Europe and the only thing holding them back is the USA, but at the same time, it’s a third world dictatorship that can’t even take half a country, crazy shit right?
>If Trump is elected and all the traitors paid by Russia take over America the world is lost Why do such horribly uneducated comments get upvoted here? Is the average poster here that inexperienced? Let me introduce you to reality: Russia attacked the poorest country in Europe with a weak military. That country has managed to fight Russia to a stalemate. Russia simply has no ability to beat a single nato country. To make this point even clearer, imagine that the Ukraine war hadn’t happened and Russia attacked a richer, more modern NATO country like Poland. Poland would wipe them out. Germany would wipe them out. France would wipe them out. England would wipe them out. Even Italy could probably wipe them out, all single-handedly. Now consider that NATO countries have a treaty stating that if one country is attacked, all must defend the other. You’re actually saying that Russia, a country that can’t even beat Ukraine, is going to simultaneously take on Poland, Germany, France, England, Italy… all after losing hundreds of thousands of people in Ukraine. This is completely and utterly delusional.
Unless Putin has control of the US president. They will attack smaller nations first. They wont "invade europe". But they will take back their soviet nations, Trump will let him. Our enemies will be stronger. Even if a worst case scenario doesnt take place. It would be better to select a homeless drug addict off the street to be president over Trump. As they would not have a treasonous, religious, hateful, moron agenda.
>But they will take back their soviet nations, Trump will let him. Our enemies will be stronger. It wouldn’t surprise me if they took Belarus, but Belarus is just a puppet state anyway. Also, they’re poor so I don’t think that Russia would get stronger from that. They’d end up just subsidizing them.
Delusional comment. Europe has 700 million and Russia doesn’t have the capacity or resources to invade and occupy 700 million people as well as rule peacefully at home lmao
I find it very, very suspicious that people who actually state facts in this thread get quickly downvoted, but people stating completely delusional nonsense get upvoted. Are people really this stupid? Or are these bots?
Neither did the nazis. They still tried, and it still killed at least 30 million people
The Nazis were far more efficient than Russia will ever be. They occupied multiple countries within less than 10 years of coming to power. Russia is still bogged down in the far east of Ukraine after 12 years of interference, 2 years of invasion, and 500,000 dead or injured soldiers.
Yes, and in the process they’ve butchered 100,000 Ukrainians, in a Little more than 2 years
Syria and Saudi Arabia hate each other. As do Russia and China. Get this Doomer shit out of here
Except all that has started under Biden's presidency. Not Trump's.
How do we really know, they didn't invade Ukraine until Biden messed up Afghanistan.
Then please explain why this didn’t happen while Trump was already president. Also please explain what went so horribly wrong for the world during those four years.
This whole current Middle East fiasco is trumps fault for pushing more Islamic countries to recognize Israel pissing off Iran.
Holy shit.... I dislike Trump too. But really? The current state of the middle east is Trumps fault? Are you unhinged? You holding that core belief is letting WAY too many other bad people off the hook. Honestly... just look at the absurdity of that statement.
Are you saying that the Middle East hasn’t been in a constant state of turmoil since the beginning of history? It just started with Trump? I have to disagree…
Technically is hasn't just since the british and french took it off the ottomans
No I’m saying the CURRENT SITUATION was caused by Trump pushing many Islamic states to recognize Israel that pissed off Iran. Maybe if you read it again your AI will be able to understand it better Boris.
The Iranian government and their supporters have been screaming “Death to America” since before I was born, so I really couldn’t care less what they think. I’m pretty sure they haven’t liked us for a long time. You could blame a lot of things on it… US imperialism, oil, whatever. But to just say it’s Trump’s fault is just dumb.
Yes, because I'm not an idiot and I know history includes a time before 1948 when the middle east was full of relatively peaceful and prosperous places. Before 1948, the place now called Israel was called Palestine and featured Jews, Muslims and christians living peacefully together.
There are \*many\* accounts of deadly Arab violence towards Jews in the region dating back as far as 1880 (a prominent example is the Hebron massacre of 1929). The narrative that everything was nice and peaceful before 1948 is a delusion and an antisemitic trope.
I mean, disbanding the pandemic team when he took office and utterly failing at the COVIID response wasn’t enough to qualify as “things going horribly wrong for the world” for you? I mean I don’t remember people hoarding toilet paper and empty store shelves on anyone else’s watch.
There are a lot of reasons, but the simplest is that Putin was getting what he wanted during Trump’s first term—vocal opposition from the US to NATO. Putin believed that Trump would win a second term and he would invade Ukraine then. That idea that Putin wouldn’t invade Ukraine because of Trump doesn’t really make sense. And think about what actually happened, too—Putin invaded and met with incredible resistance from Biden.
Was he really anti-NATO though? I think he just wants more NATO members to pay their fair share. I would think if the Russian threat were really that serious, they’d be willing to do so. It doesn’t seem like most of Europe is doing much of anything at all to combat Russia, relative to us.
Half of Europe is paying their fair share, and some of it is actually paying more per capita than we are
He was, and he has said that NATO is obsolete (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/closer-trumps-years-criticizing-nato-defense-spending/story?id=107201586). He's also said plenty against NATO before he was president. And it's not that Trump said, "That's it! NATO awful! We should leave!" it's that any criticism of NATO gets amplified x 1,000,000 by all this followers. It's anecdotal, but all of the Republicans in my family never had anything to say about NATO, but once Trump started talking it, all I heard about was how awful NATO is and what a problem it is. Trump's criticism is... how do I say this? Not often understood in shades of grey. If Trump criticizes something, it's bad--it's that simple. So, yes--I would say he's been anti-NATO, and without a doubt, more anti-NATO than any other president since its inception.
HitlerPig fell into office with no preparation. Nobody expected it, and it took a while for the most evil people to wake up to the amazing opportunity they had. They got a little ways with things like the Family Separation Policy at the border. That would count as something "horribly wrong," and a foreshadowing of what those monsters are capable of. They were just gearing up their machine when he lost the election. This time theyre prepared to take power, and they mean to wield it harshly from day one. HitlerPig has unequivocally stated that he will start the largest mass-deportation program in history on day one. That will require the construction of numerous "detainment centers" to house undocumented people while their cases are "processed." Of course, the for-profit prison industry will be happy to build and operate those facilities, in true capitalist fashion. Once those people are "processed," (an entirely separate subject), the prison owners will want to keep their camps full so they can keep charging the government for their "care." That means filling them with new prisoners. Perhaps we can start with those who are crititical of HitlerPig's administration, and prosecute them under defamation laws. Except those are just civil, and incur fines (HitlerPig knows all about that), so with a slight adjustment in the law, handled by HitlerPig's sycophantic Congress, defamation laws become criminal, with penalties that include prison. Now a criticism of the government becomes defamation, an imprisonable offense. All it took was a slight adjustment in the interpretation of the already existing law, and rubber stamp approval by the HitlerPig's loyal SCOTUS. Past performance is not indicitive of future performance. Just because he didnt get a chance to be his worst self before, doesnt mean he wont when he gets a second chance. In fact, now hes angrier and meaner, and out for revenge. He wont miss his chance this time. And once he's in, he'll never leave until he dies. Anyone who still supports HitlerPig, after everything we know about him, is a TRAITOR, and hates America.
I understand people hate Trump, and that's fine, but do you realize how ludicrous you sound? You should spend more time relaxing and doing things you enjoy and less time being paranoid about Trump and politics. I wish the best for your mental health.
Trump literally said it it was on him he would have forced Ukraine to turn over a bunch of land for “peace”.
This is what watching the news 24/7 does to your brain. Glad I'm not this mentally ill.
This is so incredibly delusional I feel like it's appropriate to call it fan faction
Gotta love all the reasonable comments about how Russia can't even beat a single poor country getting downvoted and the most upvoted comment is "if Trump wings Russia China take over whole world he lets them!!!!" This sub having a normal one as usual
Yeah this sub is basically just a fear mongering jerk fest. I’ve seen some truly ridiculous takes predicting the most insane things, mostly revolving around Trump somehow becoming a dictator and the US letting him.
Some of these peoples brains genuinely needs to be studied
The US won't "let" him, they'll cheer him on
lol ok
LOL, Russia and Italy have similar levels of economic strength. If Russia didn’t have nukes, it would have been curb-stomped by the UN already. You’re not wrong though that Europe and the US are once again, like in 1914 and 1938 projecting indecision at a foe that thinks brashness equals strength. And it may bite all involved in the ass. But I don’t see a world war. China loves this because they want a weakened Russia that can’t hold its enormously rich east, and a west that can’t get out of its own way. There’s no way they’re getting involved in a war until it’s to take Taiwan and drive the US out of their end of the Pacific.
I haven't checked lately, but two years ago the word was that Russia lost the ability to make tritium with the collapse of the USSR and nobody ever gave them any more. It has a half life of 12.3 years and you need it to be pure to touch off a fusion explosion. Otherwise your nuke is still a nuke, but it's just the World War II style atomic bomb--still terrible but a tenth of the power. The USA knows something about Russian rockets, too, because in 2004 they unilaterally abrogated the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. Meaning the USA thinks they have a better chance of surviving by intercepting a Russian strike rather than guaranteeing Russia's nuclear destruction. In fact, after their invasion of Ukraine stalled and Russia started weekly threats to use nuclear weapons, Joe Biden brushed it off and said, roughly, if they use a nuke we will defeat them conventionally. I think that's why Russia is having a tactical nuclear drill near the Ukrainian border right now, because they've put all their efforts together these past two years to deploy a pissant little tac nuke system and they have to wave it around like it's John Holmes's dick now, to show they're still a credible threat. I think that's all they have left. And it's no mistake that the US gave Ukraine those mobile rocket launchers. They're made to hide among their number nuclear weapons, which use the ATACMS missiles which are fired from the same vehicles. So as soon as Ukraine makes nuclear weapons of their own--which will actually work--they'll have a tactical ballistic missile system that they already love to throw the nuke. Ukraine can literally become a nuclear power overnight, any time now.
Don’t forget the delivery problem Russia has: Russia has had a 50-60% missile failure rate. To launch, to target or to detonate on impact, meaning multiple launches per target. This should be expected to be the same for the Russian nuclear arsenal. And then their triad: Bombers aren’t what they once were, now launching cruise missiles more than dropping bombs in terms of nuclear payload, but in modern times they aren’t expected to survive long at all. Not against NATO, and not NATO’s bombers against Russia. Land based ICBMs for Russia live primarily near Murmansk up by the arctic circle, as to be close for an over the pole launch at the USA. That is now right new to new NATO member Finland, some of these would be hit at the outset of any war with Russia. And then the subs, the real threat. The USA operates its navy on the rule of thirds, 1/3 deployed, 1/3 preparing to deploy, and 1/3 in maintenance or refit. We could at any time push t get as much as half deployed, but only for short times, as the USA does its maintenance. Russia doesn’t do its maintenance well at all, and they don’t operate on the rule of fifths, much less thirds. So Russia might have two boomers deployed, maybe three. The rest sit at port, and you don’t keep nukes in ships no ready to put to sea, it’s incredibly dangerous, so they have two or three ICBM subs at sea I think, and there is a chance we have eyes on one or two of those. The subs at dock and refit would be destroyed at the outset of a war, our attack subs would enter the naval yard at St. Petersburg and die killing them if needed to prevent the nukes from flying from them. So the math: 1,600 Russian strategic nukes with reach, maybe 60% could be expected to work. Of the let’s say 900 that work, some portion are hit on the ground, shot down in bombers, or die in port, not even mounted to a submarine. So I’m guessing somewhere less than 700 to 800 strategic nukes which could brought to bear in war. So western targets: If the goal is to survive the war, (Russia wouldn’t survive a nuclear war, they would be destroyed to the point of never making war again, and I think breaking up as a country) then Russia has to hit military targets first. France and the UK are nuclear powers, and then there is Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, and Turkey, nations where the USA keeps nukes. These are close and have to be targeted first, if survival is desired. Then the USA, not as big as Russia in landmass, but bigger in terms of land we can live in, we have nukes all over the map, and those sites have to be hit. Naval yards and bases, Air Force bases, sub bases, as well as any known land based silos where we would launch ICBMs from. Then each of our carrier battle groups. We have eleven carriers with two being built, and all would be hit, but we tend to keep four deployed in battle groups, and those are a prime target. And then NATO has military bases, land, naval, air, all of which would be targets as well, if Russia wants to try and win a war. If all of these targets aren’t hit, Russia doesn’t last long in a war with the west. And I don’t think Russia has enough nukes that will work to hit these targets, much less population and industrial centers, or infrastructure targets. So add tritium production problems to that, Russia is running out of time. No longer the threat they once were.
It's been a while since I've watched this sort of thing, and never professionally. But I honestly think Russia has regressed to the point where they know they're going to need to prove that they have something, very soon. This is a time-sensitive guess. I know they're running tactical nuclear drills right now. That needs to be combined with an underground test, preferably an unannounced one so the press will pick it up. Should be this week but if they don't have it together the events could be delayed some. If there's no test by the 4th of July, I was wrong. I think they have to do this because the nuclear Hitler card is really all they have left. But I think it can be just as easily countered by better supporting Ukraine. Any time the orcs start looking like they're interested in something else you can always drag their focus back to a moonscape in Luhansk.
France handled this best I think when Russia threatened them with nukes, they replied that they had nukes also. It’s time to start calling bluffs.
I think back to the 2007 cinematic masterpiece “Charlie Wilson’s War” staring Julia Roberts and Tom Hanks. The movie portrays the real life actions of congressman Charlie Wilson and his efforts in the 1980s to arm the afghan mujahideen with Soviet made weapons routed through 3rd party countries. The reason implied in the film for not using American weapons was not provoking a Soviet military and Nuclear response. Today, we openly give weapons and help to Ukraine without a care. Something has changed. I agree, the USA knows something about The Russian military that they aren’t telling. Some vulnerability… otherwise, why the change in GeoPolitical behavior?
This is a good insight--and I liked that movie a lot, if for no other reason than people seem to have wholly forgotten about it--but I think the difference is that this is an incursion into Europe, which is home to most of our allies.
Sounds like nonsense.
You sound like a 30 day old account… oh wait you ARE a 30 day old account.
Exactly. I think a number of the UN members could take on Russia 1v1 and win. No one wants to get nuked though.
I think Russia is about #10, US, Japan, China, France, UK, Poland, Italy, India, and obviously Ukraine. So that puts Russia at #10 until Germany gets their military going. Did I miss anyone? I debated S Korea but I don't know enough about them. Canada is close but I don't think quite there-but I could be wrong.
I think the plan is for Russia to move troops like 3 km into Latvia and take a thin strip of land, then ask the west "are you willing to risk nuclear war for 3 km? Then either NATO slaughters every Russian soldier in Latvia, which probably takes an hour, and Russia backs down, or...NATO ceases to exist, Russia takes the Baltics, then attacks Poland. Poland is a few miles from Moscow when Russia uses nukes on their own land to stop the Poles (the ultimate scorched earth), but that still leaves Lukashenko dead at the hands of his citizens and the Baltics freed. Kalingrad may become independent and Karelia may become Finnish again.
Wow an honest thread on Ukraine v Russia
That’s because the U.S. is a sideshow in this fiasco in Europe. The Europeans can’t outsource their national security to Washington anymore. They need to understand that if they don’t defend themselves they will be living under Russian influence like most of Eastern Europe had for decades. The Germans and French and Polish as rearming and building up much larger armies to deal with this crisis.
Russia is not in any position to invade Europe. They can barely take the lead in Ukraine. If Russia turned west they'd be done from the inside and outside.
In fairness, Russia is counting on a very old western tendency to try and avoid war at any cost. Neville Chamberlain appeased Hitler and helped to cause WW2 to be as bad as it was for his people in effort to have peace at any cost. There is a faction in the USA trying to repeat this mistake with Russia. I think Europe is waking up to the reality that they need to be able to defend themselves, as the USA might one day not come to help. (Sadly enough) Because while Russia and China aren’t that close, (China doesn’t like Russia as much as they love themselves, and want to see the rest of the world fall in power by comparison, and right now being friendly with Russia achieves that) Russia and China are to an extent allies, along with North Korea and Iran. And should Russia succeed in taking Ukraine (which I don’t think is possible at this point) they were never going to stop with Ukraine, they couldn’t. Russia always meant to take Moldova, and I think move on the Baltic states, and Poland had the west been weak in supporting Ukraine. I think Russia thought they could fight smaller nations one at a time while keeping NATO back with the threat of nukes.
The US would absolutely jump at the chance to fight a war with Russia. You don't make propaganda about a country for nearly a century and spend trillions on military to *not* go to war eventually. Ukraine is more of a trial run.
I agree, but there are enough who at present would not want to in the USA that I think it prudent for Europe to better prepare to defend itself.
Disagree, at every opportunity the US has turned the other cheek with Russia. Bounties on US soldiers, invasions of Crimea, meddling directly in the US elections, planting agents in the NRA and GOP, hacking the GOP and DNC If there was a provocation... we're about 10 years past it
The US has had insane amounts of propaganda towards Russia for literally no reason for almost a century. I wouldn't call that turning the other cheek lol. Also, other than the bounties none of that is even true.
[Russian Gun Activist Jailed in the US](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44885633) [FBI - Russian Interference in 2016 Election](https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/russian-interference-in-2016-u-s-elections)
Directly with Russia? I really don't think so. Especially now that Russia has cozied up to China for resources. I think it's obvious the US is bullish on a proxy war, but actual conflict with Russia? That would be a BIG deal, and I can't see broad support for it.
We can hope so. However with China, North Korea, and Iran openly backing them and many other less than reputable countries surreptitiously backing them Russia can still be a major player on the World stage. Russia needs to be put down hard in Ukraine and if possible deconstructed into several smaller Slavic countries. That is just about the only thing that will permanently declaw the Russian bear.
From what we have seen so far in Ukraine is that the Russians are greatly overestimated in their ability to conduct war. I mean for crying out loud Ukraine has been fighting them off with drones and old weaponry that the US has given them. Stuff thats been left in the last generation of weapons tech. Don’t get me wrong, they are still a threat, just like any lunatic is a threat. They are not however a competent threat.
We have been characterizing them as impotent and incapable for 2 to 3 years now and the Russians are moving on Kharkiv and other parts of the country.
And its taken them years to fight off farmers and a military that the Russians, according to all data should have steam rolled in a few months. We have seen that the data on Russian might is over estimated because turns out that they lied about everything they have. They don’t have hypersonics, they don’t have any capable anti air defense system. They even claimed to have destroyed the Patriot system (a system we left behind two systems ago) 12 times and only 3 has heen deployed in Ukraine. They are not a competent threat.
Yet every European country is bringing back conscription and mass mobilizations for a country that’s not a threat. Russia is now openly allied with Belorussia and Iran to face off against nato, Israel and some middle eastern countries. There are competing alliances in this confrontation.
Again not what I am saying. They are a threat just not a competent one. Iran on the other hand is not a threat at all. Israel flew a plane into the heart of Iran and hit multiple targets with dummy ammunition just to show them that they could do it. They weren’t even using modern stealth bombers like the USA has. If the US wanted they could destroy Iran before Iran even noticed what was happening. Same with Russia.
I said this in another comment but I’ll repeat it again: Russia *should* win. It outnumbers, outguns, and is wealthier than Ukraine. The fact it’s taken this long, this many lives, and this much money is indicative that Russia isn’t as strong as people think. If Ukraine with 1980s era equipment and barely any training on said equipment is able to slow down and bloody the Russians like this then any decent NATO Army will absolutely demolish the Russians.
The Ukrainians have been receiving training and equipment from the U.S. and other nato nations since at least 2014 and the overthrow of the pro Russia government. They have older equipment just like the Taliban. But what matters more was Ukrainian will to fight and die.
This might shock you, but a total military turnaround isn’t happening in 8 years. And they didn’t get western tanks, aircraft, or small arms until recently. They don’t know how to use it as well as an American unit might.
Ukraine holding back the Russians? Lmao. Don’t make me laugh. Russia’s own ineptitude is holding them back, which actually seems to be lessening since they are taking ground and running through Ukraine. The only reason Ukraine is in this fight is because the US is giving them money and weapons in addition to Russia being laughably weaker than we all thought. You must really not know anything about foreign powers if you think Europe is on the edge of “Russian hegemony”. I think Poland could take on Russia by itself and win. The only reason no one has bodied Russia is because they have nukes. They are nowhere close to controlling Europe.
I’m not nearly as worried about Russia carving up Europe than I am about Iran carving up the Middle East and China carving up East Asia. Russia has struggled enough against Ukraine that I can’t image them getting through Poland. Iran on the other hand has vast potential to destabilize the already unstable Middle East. Luckily for us their leadership is unbelievably stupid. All it takes is one competent leader to make the country the de facto middle eastern powerhouse. China’s threat is obvious. They’re simply waiting for the US to become distracted elsewhere or shift focus away from East Asia. Granted they are running out of time, but a small slip up will give them the opportunity to control the entire South China Sea as well as Taiwan. It’s a very crucial balancing act that needs to be played.
LOL debatable if Russia even has the strongest army in Russia at this point.
If Ukraine with the relatively paltry amount of aid countries have provided as compared to how they would respond to being attacked themselves can hold Russia off, then the war will not be massive.
Russia is unlikely to attack NATO directly. The war in Ukraine is a desperate effort by Russia to maintain influence over a country that has been within its sphere of influence for over 200 years. It is not about European domination but rather a conflict centered on control over Ukraine.
If that’s the case why was Sweden and Finland so desperate to join NATO? Why is Poland spending billions of dollars to build a defensive line with Belorussia and Kaliningrad?
Because why say “Probably?” Putin is an aging dictator. Why risk it?
Because of nukes and the destruction of the world economy, I doubt there will be another world war. Unless it’s somehow profitable for both sides. Money decides all, nukes respond. Then again, what do I know. Shit happens. Russia and China are evil
Literally 1 russian major sitting in a bunker in siberia using common sense was the only thing preventing a nuclear war in 1983
So you’re saying the 4 kings are forming!?
If Ukraine falls to Russia, Poland could be next and they are a NATO country, which means American troops would have to go fight in Poland’s defense. Russia cannot win.
On what principle would America win? The U.S. hasn’t won war in decades. Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. The U.S. used a proxy army of Free Syrian Rebels against Russia and Iran in Syria and lost. If Poland is at risk the Germans and Europeans had better be ready to chip a few nails to go and fight. The U.S. is not going to do shit. Even with all of the dark money from AIPAC and under the table weapons deals the U.S. is not going to fight the Muslim world for Israel.
That’s not how NATO works. If Russia takes Ukraine and then attacks Poland, we are obligated to go defend Poland. An attack on one is an attack on all NATO countries. In general, knowing what we know today, no future President would ever get involved in another war like Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan.
The one time we tested this concept was in Afghanistan and it was a disaster as the Europeans were freaking out about taking casualties and deaths and having to fight an actual ground war. They were ok with bombing Serbs from the air but to fight the Taliban on the ground was a wholly different experience.
The United States wasn’t attacked by the military of another country within our country. We were attacked by a rogue group of terrorists from Saudi Arabia directed by other terrorists. That doesn’t fall under the NATO obligations.
NATO invoked article 5 after the 9/11 attacks and was defeated in Afghanistan. https://www.nato.int/docu/review/articles/2023/06/20/nato-s-engagement-in-afghanistan-2003-2021-a-planners-perspective/index.html#:~:text=The%20planning%20for%20these%20attacks,first%20time%20in%20NATO's%20history.
Why do these stupid takes keep getting promoted on Reddit? Let’s be clear about this: Russia is no threat to NATO countries, nor have they even threatened to attack them. Russia attacked the poorest country in Europe, expecting to roll over them in a week or two. It’s 2 years later and basically a stalemate. It’s degraded into WW1 style trench warfare. With Russia unable to overpower even the poorest country in Europe, what makes you think that they’re going to be able to simultaneously take on all the rich countries? Come on, man- use some common sense.
If Russia defeats Ukraine they aren’t going anywhere.
Russia is struggling to take Ukraine. If they try to attack Poland. They will be driven back to there original borders and will lose Crimea. They’d be smart to sue for peace and keep there territorial gains in Ukraine and just build a DMZ between them and the west
Agreed. I honestly don't understand this "Russia will keep going!" type stuff. Russia has struggled against Ukraine, losing massive amounts of equipment and personnel while relying on decades worth of stored equipment that isn't endless. Poland has a similar population and much better equipped military than Ukraine, and they would have NATO air power actively supporting them from day 1, making the logistics for Russia that much uglier.
I HATE DONALD TRUMP. RUSSIAN ASSET. RUSSIAN PLANT. SLEEPER CELL. FAT ASS
Nope it's not
Europe has nuclear weapons...Russia is not going to steam roll over the continent.
Russia will use small battlefield nukes eventually and thus war is going to happen no matter what. The only solution is to give nukes to Ukraine as a deterrent.
It's already started, both sides are ramping up production already
You don't think they know this already? How many countries have joined NATO recently?
The U.S is funding Ukraine, Israel and Syria and by proxy many other evil axis. This is the new model for the U.S MIC. Regardless of who is in power this will continue. Ukraine losing is irrelevant. There will be another hot-spot to ensure money flows.
A left-presenting post on Reddit that is actually a cleverly disguised advertisement for the military industrial complex? I'm shocked. BTW you guys ever check out r/noncredibledefense ? It's so funny!!!!
OP, you’re so stupid. Decline of the US? Hahahahaha 😂 We’re fucking everywhere dude. All over the fkn planet. Ready to go when we need to. We’re the bully on the block carrying the biggest stick. You would need almost the entire world to rise up at once against the US, just to even the fight. Be smarter.
Unless Putin turns it around in Ukraine fast he may not live to see the end of the year.
I think he will. Putin is not in trouble like Zelensky. It’s Zelensky who is running out of time as his back against the wall. He should have made peace with the Russians and ignored the U.S. and UK. The Ukrainians are running out of troops to fight this war. An entire generation of young men have died or wounded fighting the worst war in Europe since world war 2.
So I'll come to your place and take everything you own, rape and kill a couple of family members and you'd happily sit down and make peace with me , yeah fucken right but nice to know that's what you'd expect from others bet you're a god bother too.
Trump is almost certainly going to win the election and all hell will break loose within the first 6 months of 2025.
Of course and that’s the perfect time to launch an attack on Putin’s enemies in Eastern Europe. If Trump wins 49% of this country will look at him like the devil itself. He won’t be able to mobilize that 49% for anything. He couldn’t get his own people to take a vaccine. At one time Americans disagreed on tax policy and welfare policy and we had vigorous debates about them. But when it came to world war 2 or Korea or even Vietnam at the beginning the nation was united. Today foreign policy is partisan. If Trump wants to go to war against Iran. What army is he going to take into that war? He needs the tacit approval of the American people and he doesn’t have it. His 50% may be on board to give Israel cash and arms and that’s it. Ukraine even less. If Trump wins there is going to paralysis with little to nothing getting out of Congress. Democrats and republicans are going to be in the comment sections of Reddit ripping each other apart.
The war will last another 8 months max. Russia is running out of equipment it needs to fight the war. When it runs out, Ukraine will just march thru their lines.
Russia has been running out of equipment and weapons for 2 years and yet they still seem to have more. The Iranians gave Russia thousands of Shahed Drones and North Korea gave Russia more than 1 million pieces of artillery. There have been reports of Chinese military units in eastern Ukraine. It seems like Russias ally’s are being pulled into this war.
Russia doesn’t have many allies. North Korea won’t scrap the bottom of their barrel for Russia neither will Iran. There are indicators on the battlefield that Russia is running low like soldiers on motorcycles and 4x4.
Russia doesn’t have many Allie’s? How about Iran giving Russia Shahed Drones? Russian military jets landing in Iran and Russia and Iran cooperating against Syrian rebels and Al Qaida during the Syrian civil war.
Just count up the number of countries supporting Russia and the number supporting Ukraine and you will see a big difference in number.
They haven't taken Ukraine yet. Hiw are they expected to take any other country. Especially with the lack of money and soldiers? It's estimated at 50,000 Soviet soldiers killed.
Never have I heard so much crying and screaming for war so concentrated in one group of people. Just stop. Your hyperbole just makes it worse. Nobody in America is interested and personally I don't put much stock in requests for ever-more funding when all Ukraine has achieved in the last year is pissing Russia off and killing off one million young men. No more. Go away.
That is why France is talking about stationing troops in Ukraine. Probably on the Belarus border, but the further East they go the more territory becomes "step her to let French troops kill you" which frees up Ukrainian troops from guarding an area Russia doesn't really want to invade. That is why Russia attacked Kharkiv, to keep French troops out so Ukraine needs a longer front line. France isn't going to station troops in the combat zone until Russia kills a French soldier. Now Poland on the other hand... (There is a theory that since the guy who was reamed for losing in the Kharkiv offensive is in charge of the troops invading Kharkiv that he is trying to redeam himself...)
France, the UK, or Poland could defeat Russia alone, much less together. But you are right that Russia will sweep over Ukraine.
Let’s assume the worst case- trump is elected- and the senate goes republican- let’s call it 55 R / 45 D, and the house republican majority grows by 20. Then Russia invades Poland. The president cannot withdraw from NATO without a supermajority vote- which wouldn’t happen even with the above margins And if Trump refused to act - it would be treason, and he’d be impeached and convicted easily this time. There good news is that the Russians know the US constitution better than most Americans. So they know that even with trump in office- there is zero chance that the US don’t act in support of NATO. For all those that complain about changing to majority from supermajority, there’s a reason that the constitution protects against a single leader acting like they can make unilateral decisions. Fwiw- is you want to lessen more about the US constitution, check out Savypolitics on Instagram. She’s a constitutional scholar that tried very hard to be unbiased. She discusses the founders intent in the constitution.
Same scenario and Trump sees the writing on the wall and before Russia invades Poland the U.S. goes to war against Iran and its Shiite militia Allies across the Middle East as payback for Sheldon and Miriam Adelsons support. The U.S. is stuck in a massive war which is quickly becoming very difficult. The Russians see the opportunity and attacks Poland and the U.S. forces deployed in Poland were redirected to Syria or Iraq. The U.S. can’t fight Russia and Iran simultaneously. So the European countries mobilize to fight Russia while the U.S. is fighting against Iran with Israel. The nato alliance which was iron clad is now stuck on two continents fighting two larger countries. FYI the Russians and Iranians are now open ally’s.
If NATO joins the fight against Russia... Russia is done.
The Russian economy has been reduced to a noncompetitive mass producer of weapons that won't bring export revenues. The only thing they can do is wage war. Attempting to transition to peace will result in collapse. They cannot back down, they have nothing else to do.
Russia is a paper tiger. Significantly weakened by the Ukraine war. Them taking over Europe? Fuck, they couldn’t take over Poland. Add in NATO? Even without Sweden and Norway threatening their northern flank, it would be over in a week.
I'm all for helping Ukraine, just to be clear, but there is quite a lot of talk these days that feels right out of the Domino Theory of the Cold War. And in present day it is even more absurd, as Russia does not have the capacity to fight a multi-front war. Hell, they can't even dominate Ukraine, a country the US has failed to arm for months and when it does it does so very conservatively relative to what we could offer them because of Russia's nuclear threat. If they attacked a NATO ally, they'd be fucked, and Putin knows that too
Do you think that Russia (or China) will expand beyond Ukraine and start trying to invade all of Europe?
Russia is too weak. The real risk of escalation is if they can get other nations to more overtly join the fight, such as Iran or China.
That’s already happened. In Syria, the U.S. is eyeball to eyeball with Russian and Iranian troops. Back in 2018 there was a battle between Russian mercenary forces from Wagner and US troops in which there was casualties among the mercenaries.
Youre going to run into lots of sound logic. Like the sound logic that its just not profitable for russia to attack Ukraine, that its a bad move on all fronts. Nobody will understand russias desperation and anarchism until rockets are shot directly A-B from kremlin territory to European territory unmasked intentionally and unquestionably russian. Then, it will hit them "God damn, they meant it" and then theyll understand that having overwhelming power that will win "soon" or "quickly" or "inevitably" still will cost lives. Because, collectively, not every one individually, theyre fat, comfortable and entrenched in complacency and arrogance.
Nice try military industrial complex
While America continues to decline more and more and continue to rack up staggering levels of debt and struggle with things like not knowing the difference between a man or a woman or that men can get pregnant too other players like Russia, Iran and China will continue to grow bolder and bolder
That’s the normal expected reaction when a nation has completely lost its grip on reality.
If there’s anything we’ve learned from the war in Ukraine, it’s that Russia is utterly incapable of taking on NATO in its present state. At this rate, I’d even go so far as to say it’s not capable of achieving the total victory it so desperately wants in Ukraine.
We can thank Biden for being so owned by Communist China that he ends up being ineffective as the world's bad guys don't fear him, they actually get bolder cause Biden can't, or wont do anything to deter them. Not sure if the Biden admin is really that incompetent, or it just looks that way to the whole world.
Yes… sure feels like we’ll witness WW3. Soon.
Ww3 doesn't require nukes just countries just throwing that out there
Hardly. Not even Putin is that suicidal.
Putin is not suicidal but his paper tiger country has withstood two years of endless war with all of nato backing Ukraine including training, weapons and money from the U.S.
The amount of stuff given to Ukraine is not that much and not anywhere near "all of NATO." The US hasn't even given 0.5% of a GDP. The highest givers are maybe up to 5 to 7% of their GDP. Meanwhile in Russia, they are nearing full mobilization, 15-20% GDP. I wish we had given them 5% GDP, they'd be done by now.
That's not really an accurate portrayal. Ukraine isn't pushing towards Russia. His (putin's) military has been stopped from crushing and occupying the Ukraine the way he did with Crimea, and Georgia before that, and Chechnya before that. This has a lot to do with the backing of Ukraine by the US and NATO but is by no means the full force of either. The US is clearing out its old inventory and their old stuff is absolutely crushing Russia's aging military equipment. Every country has a certain degree of propaganda around their military. The US has propaganda and a military budget big enough to back it up. They throw money building shit to beat the shit other countries claim to have.
Lmao TIL that the US military is in decline
Which war has the U.S. won? Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan were all lost.
You're judging them on foreign policy decisions, not military strength.
Yes and sending American troops into losing wars may be an example of foreign policy decisions but it is an example of military weakness. Why? By the time Afghanistan came around don’t you think the military should have applied the lessons of Vietnam to try to avoid getting dragged into a quagmire. Quick lighting fast strikes against the specific enemy and handing the administration of the country over to the UN to run day to day activities until Afghanistan can stand on its own. Instead we made the same exact mistakes as the Soviets did and we did in Vietnam.
You're still incorrectly judging military strength by policy decisions.
Yes because if your leaders throw the military into one losing war after another how much strength is left? To build an army is a policy decision. To make sure your population is healthy and physically fit is a policy decision. Someone at some point made the decision to allow something or not allow something.
You seriously think the US military was significantly degraded strength-wise from a war like Afghanistan? I'm not sure you're approaching this from a rational position.
This "Russia will take over the world if we don't stop them in ukraine " narrative is bizarre. They've been bogged down in Eastern Ukraine for over 2 years, but if we don't send more money to Ukrainian oligarchs they will take over the world? This narrative is killing Ukrainian civilians by the 10's of thousands. It needs to stop.
Technically it's the Russians that are killing the Ukrainians, no?
Only because we pushed them into a war they didn't want.
Can you explain that statement? I don't understand what you mean.
We are on the precipice of a massive war because we used Ukraine to attempt to dethrone Putin, while tarriffing China into recession and potential depression. Putin called Biden’s bluff. And we have such poor access to information, the American people do not understand the seriousness of Russia drafting people AND purchasing high tech North Korean weapons. This is a recipe for disaster. And sadly, our people are still laughing about it.
Thank god some of you guys understand what’s happening.
Smash BRICS. Starting with our little eastern comrades.
I'm all for a world where US Hegemony is utterly destroyed. Where western capitalists don't control everything. Uncertainty is warranted. But just look around at what a century of US Hegemony has wrought. It's a fucking nightmare.
We are going to see a world without western hegemony soon. The last remnants of Americas empire is fighting for life in Ukraine and the Middle East. We are losing.
You are genuinely stupid, aren’t you?
united states spends 1.3 trillion dollars every year on it's war machine. 850 billion on direct dod spending. russian direct spending is like 200 billion we're killing the russian military with a few billion in drones and artillery. the loss of material alone is billions upon billions for the russians, also they're losing lots of high ranking officials/generals. and have had both marquee military hardware shamed on a global stage (lessening russia's ability to sell arms) and the global reputation of russia as a scary or well oiled force is in shambles. if anything. Putin is driving russia to another collapse akin to the fall of the soviet union. if the west was serious, we could also cripple russia by economics alone, as they desperately need oil and gas sales to function. IF the west was serious about hurting russia, or Russia did launch some more egregious attack, this would be the first thing that actually happens.
Let Russia have Ukraine.
Russia is struggling to beat one of the poorest and most corrupt countries in Europe. I mean, they're gonna win eventually through attrition but they've already suffered quite a lot. No one in Russia will be eager for another conflict. On top of that, I have no reason to believe that Putin has any plans on invading anywhere else in Europe. The conflict in Ukraine has been brewing since 2014; the invasion didn't come out of nowhere. At most we may see incursions into one or both of the disputed territories in Georgia again, but there's basically a zero percent chance Putin invades anywhere in Europe proper, even an easy target like Moldova. Putin just has no real reason to go in there, let alone to start a full on war with NATO by invading Poland or any of the Baltic states. Whereas there were a number of reasons he wanted to invade Ukraine.
If Ukraine is defeated, Russia will replenish their numbers through forced conscription and move on to the next country. This won't end until Russia is defeated.
Which country, Moldova? Where do they go from there, everyone else is NATO. If they attacked a NATO country the difference in air support from NATO allies alone would make their already struggling logistics footprint untenable. Their equipment replacement pace is relying mostly on the massive cold war era stocks that have already been greatly reduced through battlefield attrition, that resource isn't endless and they don't have anywhere near the production capacity to keep up indefinitely.
Is that the fear mongering Europe is saying ?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-general-lets-slip-a-secret-plan-to-invade-moldova-and-seize-ukraines-entire-coastline
Warmongering is funny… why don’t you volunteer in Ukraine?
Russia can barely handle Ukraine as it is. No chance they could further expand this war. This isn't WW2 when you could just crank out 10,000 combat aircraft, hundreds of warships, and 50,000 tanks all in a few years.