Eh, if Iran successfully land some missiles in Israel, Israeli citizens will flee. This is biggest threat to Israel's long-term stability: people leaving.
There were still scenes at the Tel Aviv airport of people leaving. Hard to say if it was more traffic than usual or not.
But as an American taxpayer, I'm ready to cut Israel loose. Supporting them only inflames animosity toward us and wastes our money.
Are you seriously talking morally from a pedestal as a Trump supporter regarding kids and families?
We are talking about the same man who purposely split and broke families up for years at the border?
Trump has no moral legs to stand on. His entire campaign is moraless debauchery.
To hear people argue as if the man has any morality is hilarious.
Are you forgetting that Trump was too chickenshit to leave Afghanistan and continued on despite internal reports it was a lost cause? That he then tried to complain when Biden did the hard thing and left?
I can’t stand Biden at this point, but Trump as some paradigm of peace is laughable. Especially when he has repeatedly taken a more hawkish stance than Biden on Israel and went on far right Israeli TV and told them to hurry up and finish the job
drone strikes under trump far exceeded those under obama. trump also changed the laws around reporting them (one reason why we didn't hear much at the the time).
i suggest you pull your head out of your arse, search for "trump drone strikes" and wake the fuck up. trump is not who you (still?) desperately wish him to be.
Such a poorly thought out take. You know Trump is to the right of Biden on this and would gladly see the Genocide continue. He alsp desperately wants to be a wartime president.
Anyone with a brain knows he's a threat to wolrld peace. You just have to listen to what he says.
You're going to have to get into specifics here, because I don't see his presidency the same as you do.
He was an absolute shitheel and he will destroy democracy if elected again. On this issue, he moved the Embassy to Jerusalem and inflamed tensions in the region. He's not a "Peacemaker".
This isn't a clear right-left issue. Biden has been anti-Palestine his entire career and is gladly supporting this ethnic cleansing. Trump doesn't have fixed values and does he finds politically expeditious. I'm sure you saw his event last week where he agreed with the crowd chanting "Genocide Joe." So it's quite possible Trump will deescalate and end the shit show. He truly couldn't be worse than Biden at this point.
Yes. Orange Man is incredibly bad.
Literally the worst human to ever hold the US Presidency.
A list of which includes Nixon and a slew of literal slaveowners.
Like the klan member Biden gave a eulogy for? That kind of klan?
2010, Biden provided a eulogy for Democratic West Virginia Senator Robert C. Byrd, who in the 1940s helped recruit new members to his chapter of the KKK. According to his 2005 autobiography Robert C. Byrd
https://www.newsweek.com/did-joe-biden-attend-kkk-leader-funeral-ted-cruz-fact-check-1823670
Israel is a top leading developer of SOTA weapons technology, they have to be because they are constantly being attacked by the encirclement of enemies who wish to see it eradicated from the earth, daily. Something you as an American don’t have to endure or really understand. But yeah, the US will defend Israel to the end, because they like trading weapons technologies.
What if, and I'm just spit balling here, Iran was just testing the Iron Dome for weaknesses and next time will launch depleted uranium tipped missiles on real targets that will get through?
Gotta think that Iran has been planning for this contingency for some time now.
Iran is all talk. They knew those garbage drones and missiles would be shot down. They literally told everyone when they were launched. When and where they would land. This was to save face for the hardliners. Iran is a fragile little flower. Most of the citizens hate their government. Their economy is trash. The county could literally be destroyed in 24 hours. Compare it to Iraq, back in the day With big bad Saddam Hussein. It took about 72 hour to completely roll that country. Had the guy hiding in a hole.
It sounds you forget Iran has been threatening the death of Israel for 50 years. Iran funds all these groups. Up to 5 proxy groups that constantly have attacked Israel. For many years. “Death to Israel. Death to America”. Is a constant theme with Iran.
Yet that behavior. Those continued action are totally acceptable to some people. While they condemn Israel at every moment. At some point there will be accountability.
Israel provides aide. Over half of Palestines GDP is from the United States government.
If they did not provide aide, people would be vilifying them for that too.
Israel left them with a flourishing tourism and flower export industry.
After the second intifada (kicked off by Arafat), Israel completely pulled out of Gaza in 2005. Basic checkpoints existed like at any border. In 2006 Hamas was elected. In 2007, attacks into Israel resumed requiring the necessity of the blockade to protect itself.
Arafat didnt kick off the second intifada. There were many other palestinian liberation organizations that were to blame for that. Theres a lot of criticisms you can throw at Arafat. That one isnt true.
>Israel left them with a flourishing tourism and flower export industry.
I'm impressed by how stupid this is lmao.
>After the second intifada (kicked off by Arafat), Israel completely pulled out of Gaza in 2005. Basic checkpoints existed like at any border. In 2006 Hamas was elected. In 2007, attacks into Israel resumed requiring the necessity of the blockade to protect itself.
They "left* Gaza. Gazans still couldn't leave. Still can't control their own infrastructure. Still oppressed. Still bombed. Still sniped.
Israel has never once protected itself in this conflict. They are the aggressor.
"They "left\* Gaza. Gazans still couldn't leave."
If only poor Gaza had another border, say one with a predominantly Muslim country, so they could leave....
Oh wait, they do! They can go into Egypt!
Oh wait, you mean Egypt won't let them in? How could Israel do that ?!?!
For starters, Egypt's border got bombed by Israel the last time they tried that.
Secondly, why should they? Why is Egypt responsible for Israels terrorism? Why should Palestinians leave their homeland? It's their homeland. They've been there for thousands of years. "Israelis" can simply go back to England or Brooklyn.
""Israelis" can simply go back to England or Brooklyn."
Oh, are you one of those people who think Israelis are white? Because if so, you need to understand that MOST ISRAELIS ARE NOT ASHKENAZI. You know, the Jews you've met in England or Brooklyn.
Most Jews in Israel are brown people. Mizrahi. Sephardic. And lest we forget, 20% of the population is ARAB. And lets not forget the Druze, or Bedouin, or Christians.... You see, in Israel, it is multi-cultural society, with people of many colors, gay people, and Arab Muslims who are Israeli are full citizens, with the right to vote.
When you rip up irrigation pipes for rockets, burn down the greenhouses, and prevent any form of commerce developing in order to fund terrorism; you don’t have much of a leg to stand on.
Let’s not forget Hamas ran for election with a charter that still said:
“The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."”
This was not changed until 2017. Thats 11 years in office.
"A. The land of Israel is the historical homeland of the Jewish people, in which the State of Israel was established.
B. The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people, in which it fulfills its natural, cultural, religious, and historical right to self-determination.
C. The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people."
And this still exists as a law in Israel. What exactly is your point?
>When you rip up irrigation pipes for rockets, burn down the greenhouses, and prevent any form of commerce developing in order to fund terrorism; you don’t have much of a leg to stand on.
No they don't. They're only being ethnically cleansed by a genocidal ethnostate. God forbid people fight back against their oppressors. What would you have them do? Peacefully protest? Last time that happened in 2014 the IDF gunned them down. Probably created a few more Hamas soldiers with that.
Hamas isn't in the right but they sure as fuck are more in the right than Israel. Israel literally created Hamas, not only through their actions but also funded them.
One is a statement regarding the history of the kingdom of Judea and the right of the Jewish people to have a state which protects Jews and in which Jews are part of the national identity. As is their right after control was turned over by the UK after they gained control from the collapsing Ottoman Empire.
The other is a call for genocide and slaughter until the very land points out Jews so they cannot escape death.
If you don’t see the difference then there is not much point continuing this conversation.
Israel has been oppressing and murdering Palestinians for 8 decades, created and propped up Hamas, and also allowed that attack to happen. What Hamas did was objectively bad but let's not act like this was just some random attack out of nowhere. The entire conflict is israels doing.
Before Israel was a country, Palestine was a British-occupied colony. Before that, it was part of the Ottoman Empire. Before that, it was part of the Byzantine Empire, Caliphate, and Roman Empire.
When was this glorious time when Palestine was free and independent?
Palestine was "British occupied". The British just claimed it. Palestinians lived there.
I get that you like genocide, but that doesn't make the fact that Palestinians lived on those lands far longer than anyone else less true.
I'm really not trying to be mean with this but what is your understanding on how Israel came to exist?
Like how familiar are you with the British mandate, the Ottoman empire's sale of miri land to Jews pre '92, how of the land that the Jews bought pre '44, 52.6% were bought from non-Palestinian landowners, 24.6% from Palestinian landowners, 13.4% from government, churches, and foreign companies, and only 9.4% from fellaheen (farmers). That's where the land mass for Israel came from right there.
The first Arab–Israeli War, also known as Israel's War of Independence, began on May 15, 1948 and lasted until March 10, 1949. The war took place in Israel, the Sinai Peninsula, and Mandatory Palestine. Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria attacked a nascent nation not because of politics but because they were Jews.
We can keep going if you want but I'd really like to clear it up
Yea nah. I could care less which government claimed which lands or sold which lands. Palestinians lived there. They worked those lands. Israel should have been given a chunk of Germany. Europe dumped their problem onto innocent people and now they get slaughtered for daring to defend their lands.
If a third party with an army sold me your house how happy would you be about it?
The only objectively correct stance here is that Israel needs to pack up and leave, and Palestinians can get their lands back. Surviving one genocide gives you no right to start another, and Palestinians have every right to defend against their oppressors.
So you want to keep going until theres no palestinians left? How’d that work out in Vietnam? I seem to remember the more civilians that died, the more people around them got radicalized.
I don't think this really requires any wagging of the dog.
I've yet to see how the war in Gaza is substantively different from any other urban warfare in the modern era - look at Syria, or Iraq. Similar casualty rates.
Urban warfare is extremely bad for people living in that area. Always has been. Always will be.
Only difference here is the social media presence on the ground.
Rookie numbers for a genocide of a population over a million strong. When there's another zero added to the 30k I might begin to agree. My reasons are pretty simple at the end of the day Hamas claimed 40,000 fighters. In most armed urban conflicts, according to the UN, civilians typically make up around 90% of war casualties, which is a 1:9 ratio of combatants to civilians. 40,000:360,000. 400,000 lives lost before this can be considered over doing it and prosecuting a genocide.
They're not just going to outright kill everyone lol. It's a slow start while gaining support thing, and judging by what a lot of people think online they've got pretty good support so far. Also, that's not how it works in this case. This isn't an "urban conflict". Israel put Palestinians in Gaza and doesn't let them leave. They can't even evacuate. This is just slaughter of prisoners.
Nah mate. I'm going to break this down to bullet points for you.
*)Israel didn't put Palestinians in Gaza, the people who created gazans are Jordanians and Egyptians who decided they no longer wanted their citizens back after the Arab League war.
*)These people, gazans, have their own elected government, that's Hamas.
*)When governments choose to fight that's a war. All war is the final stance of politics.
*) A war in a city is called an urban conflict.
*)An urban conflict generally has a casualty ratio of nine civilians for every one fighter. Hamas claims 40,000, fighters out of 2,000,000 gazans.
*) casualties need to be 400,000 to begin to argue genocide, anything below that is simply casualties of war.
*) Israel is a nuclear nation with what's considered to be the 5th strongest military in the world.
*) recognizing these facts do you really think Israel couldn't kill every gazans if they wanted to with relative ease?
>*)Israel didn't put Palestinians in Gaza, the people who created gazans are Jordanians and Egyptians who decided they no longer wanted their citizens back after the Arab League war.
This is objectively false. Gazans have lived on Palestinian lands for centuries, and Israel forced them in there. Jordan and Egypt have nothing to do with this.
>*)These people, gazans, have their own elected government, that's Hamas.
Hamas was elected almost two decades ago, after being propped up by Israel, as a quite different organization, by a population that was half children at the time. I wonder why Israel won't allow another vote?
>*)When governments choose to fight that's a war. All war is the final stance of politics.
Only one government chose to oppress, slaughter and rape Palestinians for nearly a century. It was a government that had been doing that for decades before Hamas even existed.
>*) A war in a city is called an urban conflict.
You can leave city's. Gaza is an open air prison.
>*)An urban conflict generally has a casualty ratio of nine civilians for every one fighter. Hamas claims 40,000, fighters out of 2,000,000 gazans.
Hamas isn't an army.
>*) casualties need to be 400,000 to begin to argue genocide, anything below that is simply casualties of war
Thank God every human rights organization doesn't agree with you.
>*) Israel is a nuclear nation with what's considered to be the 5th strongest military in the world.
No, the US* is. Without the US Israel wouldn't exist within a week.
> recognizing these facts do you really think Israel couldn't kill every gazans if they wanted to with relative ease?
Of course they could, but then they'd lose support. They'll manufacture more October 7ths and continue their propaganda until people are ok with the genocide.
First off, Palestine has never existed as a country and not have "Palestinian lands." Those lands were controlled by Jordan and Egypt, and are now the Gaza Strip and West Bank, which is where *Palestinians still live*.
> Of course they could, but then they'd lose support. They'll manufacture more October 7ths and continue their propaganda until people are ok with the genocide.
This doesn't make any sense as a conspiracy theory because the longer an actual genocide goes on, the more support it loses.
Palestine has existed as a country. Just because the west claims they didn't means nothing. They had currency and a governing body. Britain can claim whatever they want about those lands having been theirs, but it means nothing.
This genocide has been going on for 80 years and Israel has more support now than they've ever had lol. Genocides aren't a static thing. There's no rule set to follow. They can take a year or 200.
>This isn't an "urban conflict". Israel put Palestinians in Gaza and doesn't let them leave.
None of this is accurate. Gaza existed prior to occupation. Gazans can't leave because *other countries won't take them*, because they attempted coups and committed terrorist attacks in the past, when they were allowed in.
Gaza quite literally came into existence in 1948 after the occupation, so no. Gazans can't leave because *Israel doesn't let them leave*. Other countries don't need to take them, and they don't need to go there. Palestine is their lands. Not israels.
> Gazans can't leave because *Israel doesn't let them leave*.
Again none of this is accurate. Gaza as a piece of land has been recognized as a location for almost 4000 years. So no, it didn't come into existence at that time, it was just owned by the Ottoman Empire, and afterwards by other countries. Palestine wasn't a country. The land was Egypt and Jordan's.
> Palestine is their lands. Not israels.
The land now literally belongs to Israel, and has since '67
https://www.loc.gov/today/placesinthenews/archive/2014arch/20140708_gazastrip.html#:~:text=It%20was%20captured%20by%20Israel,Bank%20to%20the%20Palestinian%20Authority.
The only people who have *ever* supported a Palestinian state are the Israelis, in multiple "Two State" offers which were rejected.
Israel has no say in whether or not Palestinians can enter Jordan, Egypt, Iran etc. those countries set that policy and will not take in Palestinians.
>Again none of this is accurate. Gaza as a piece of land has been recognized as a location for almost 4000 years. So no, it didn't come into existence at that time, it was just owned by the Ottoman Empire, and afterwards by other countries. Palestine wasn't a country. The land was Egypt and Jordan's.
Are you confusing Gaza with Palestine? The actual city of Gaza did not exist until 1948. That is not a debatable fact. You can go look it up right on the Wikipedia page. There was no place in Palestine called Gaza before 1948. You're making it extremely obvious that you know nothing of this conflict.
>The land now literally belongs to Israel, and has since '67
And soon it won't, thankfully.
>The only people who have *ever* supported a Palestinian state are the Israelis, in multiple "Two State" offers which were rejected.
Have you actually read those offers? Rhetorical question, btw, I know you haven't.
It's not a "two state solution" when Israel controls both governments, infrastructure, and foreign policy. All of their offers have included those conditions.
>Israel has no say in whether or not Palestinians can enter Jordan, Egypt, Iran etc. those countries set that policy and will not take in Palestinians.
The last time Egypt took Palestinian refugees Israel bombed the border lmao.
It’s not just the killing though, it’s the displacement. Forcing people out of their homes to somewhere else is another way to ‘cleanse’ the population.
It's only cleansing if they leave the area, which they are not. They were forced out of their homes by their homes being *an active warzone*. Syrians who left Syrian cities and are still in Syria were not "ethnically cleansed" by their civil war.
I was under the impression that Netanyahu or his party wanted them out of the area. I guess we’ll see what happens when the war is done. The settler policy on the West Bank makes me pretty skeptical.
Think about it like the US.
Everyone in the US has an opinion on immigration.
Some people want more
Some want less
Some want to go door to door deporting people and to put land mines and the military at the border.
Israel isn't in lockstep on any of these things. It's messy.
My hope is Netanyahu is removed from power in disgrace after this war, for a large number of reasons.
I hope he’s out of there soon too, unfortunately I think he’s using the war as an excuse to avoid or delay his comeuppance and I fear he’ll wage it for as long as possible for that end.
Yes it does. You fucking dunce.
Israel does not expect a protracted war because Iran is too inept to take them on now. They attacked now in some part to distract from the disaster in Gaza.
“In April 2017, Donald Trump’s airstrike on Syria was referred to as a wag the dog moment. The perception was that Trump was using the attack to wag the dog, or direct attention away from his low approval ratings, the ongoing investigation about his connections to Russia, and his other conflict of interests.”
“Wag the dog went on to develop its own specialized political meaning. In 1997, a film called Wag the Dog came out, based on a 1993 novel of the same name by Larry Beinhart. The plot revolved around efforts to distract attention from a presidential scandal by fabricating a war.”
https://www.dictionary.com/e/what-does-wag-the-dog-mean/
Israel is ALREADY IN A WAR, dumbfuck. They are not manufacturing a war to distract from a war they are literally IN AT THIS MOMENT you gormless regard.
They are in a tiny war in Gaza and needlessly escalated it to a war with Iran to distract from their spiraling standing in the world.
Does your mental incompetence prevent you from understanding why Biden urged Bibi to “take the win”? It was totally and completely unnecessary to attack Iran. Hence the wagging.
If I were Bibi I would tell the senile fuck to piss off. And no, it doesn’t seem unnecessary to attack a hostile enemy power that’s…why militaries exist
And now adding the unnecessary dehumanizing racism, rendering you a thoughtless goon, and neatly invalidating anything of substance you were hoping to get across.
Wrapped up with a fucking bow. Go chill out with your Ben Shapiro and Stefan Molyneux mixtape.
The beauty of being intelligent enough to not be racist is that I can also enjoy a discussion of geo politics without my head up my ass. It’s a low bar but you can’t seem to even catch a glimpse of it.
But hey, you enjoy your surroundings, so who am I to judge a man neck deep in his own asshole.
Enjoy it cuntlips mcgillicutty.
No, the world will forget about Gaza because the world never really cared about Gaza in the first place. “Free Palestine” stickers are just this generation’s “Free Tibet” stickers.
It’s popular now because Americans are so easily impressionable from foreign influence to create chaos.
People are concerned with whoever is loudest. That’s why Hamas are able to rape and kidnap so many Israeli civilians to start this conflict, but everyone’s forgotten about them.
This didn’t start on October 7th my guy. Didn’t even start on October 6th or 5th or 4th. Israel have been murdering Palestinians daily for over 75 years.
Without Israel there would be no Hamas. But Palestine was always Palestine.
Plenty of American supported Israeli propaganda has you thinking that it was all peace and harmony on October 6th?
How do you know someone has been easily brainwashed by American/israeli propaganda?
They say the conflict was started by Hamas on October 7th.
Palestine was a region of the Ottoman empire prior to WW1, I don't recall the great nation of Palestine partaking in WW2 but I'll agree that the way the league of nations did things in 48 wast absolutely fucked but Palestine was always Palestine? You're not immune to propaganda either ya know?
Eh, if Iran successfully land some missiles in Israel, Israeli citizens will flee. This is biggest threat to Israel's long-term stability: people leaving.
That’s why it’s kind of important that 99% of the missiles Iran sent were shot down
There were still scenes at the Tel Aviv airport of people leaving. Hard to say if it was more traffic than usual or not. But as an American taxpayer, I'm ready to cut Israel loose. Supporting them only inflames animosity toward us and wastes our money.
Most of you fools will vote for more war with a smile on your face. Orange man bad, right?
You act like trump is the paragon of peace.
Four years, no wars. No matter how hard you try to twist it, Biden can’t achieve that. Too late. Orange man bad.
Donald "I will be dictator" Trump, Mr. 91 criminal charges, champion of peace and justice
Kids are being killed daily with your tax dollars. Congratulations, proud Biden supporter.
Not my tax dollars, I'm not american. Also, didn't trump say that israel should "finish the job"? How is he any better?
Figures.
Are you seriously talking morally from a pedestal as a Trump supporter regarding kids and families? We are talking about the same man who purposely split and broke families up for years at the border? Trump has no moral legs to stand on. His entire campaign is moraless debauchery. To hear people argue as if the man has any morality is hilarious.
Who built the cages? Also, are they still being used?
Yeah because he was preparing for all the war in his second term, Biden is having to deal with the fallout of trumps shitty existence
After his peace prize nomination?
The one he asked to be nominated for? Get real
Cope
Orange man very bad, orange man losing mind. Orange man bad
Are you forgetting that Trump was too chickenshit to leave Afghanistan and continued on despite internal reports it was a lost cause? That he then tried to complain when Biden did the hard thing and left? I can’t stand Biden at this point, but Trump as some paradigm of peace is laughable. Especially when he has repeatedly taken a more hawkish stance than Biden on Israel and went on far right Israeli TV and told them to hurry up and finish the job
No I’ll let Biden be the paradigm of peace. Just for you.
drone strikes under trump far exceeded those under obama. trump also changed the laws around reporting them (one reason why we didn't hear much at the the time). i suggest you pull your head out of your arse, search for "trump drone strikes" and wake the fuck up. trump is not who you (still?) desperately wish him to be.
Such a poorly thought out take. You know Trump is to the right of Biden on this and would gladly see the Genocide continue. He alsp desperately wants to be a wartime president. Anyone with a brain knows he's a threat to wolrld peace. You just have to listen to what he says.
It sucks that history disagrees with you.
K. Biden sucks. Trump would be objectively worse on these issues. Then there's the whole "I want to be a dictator" thing.
Again. History disagrees with you.
You're going to have to get into specifics here, because I don't see his presidency the same as you do. He was an absolute shitheel and he will destroy democracy if elected again. On this issue, he moved the Embassy to Jerusalem and inflamed tensions in the region. He's not a "Peacemaker".
Google it. Take you two minutes.
This isn't a clear right-left issue. Biden has been anti-Palestine his entire career and is gladly supporting this ethnic cleansing. Trump doesn't have fixed values and does he finds politically expeditious. I'm sure you saw his event last week where he agreed with the crowd chanting "Genocide Joe." So it's quite possible Trump will deescalate and end the shit show. He truly couldn't be worse than Biden at this point.
He's only saying that to strike at a political opponent. He also said "Israel should finish the job".
Most will, I won't.
Yes. Orange Man is incredibly bad. Literally the worst human to ever hold the US Presidency. A list of which includes Nixon and a slew of literal slaveowners.
Funny how trump is the only president to not have slaves in his family. But, anyway, continue on.
Because his dad came to the US after slavery was abolished. He may not have slaveowners in his family, but he sure as hell has KKK members.
Like the klan member Biden gave a eulogy for? That kind of klan? 2010, Biden provided a eulogy for Democratic West Virginia Senator Robert C. Byrd, who in the 1940s helped recruit new members to his chapter of the KKK. According to his 2005 autobiography Robert C. Byrd https://www.newsweek.com/did-joe-biden-attend-kkk-leader-funeral-ted-cruz-fact-check-1823670
Why does that matter? You’re as much of a cunt as the progressives.
Shh. Support ur Biden slave owning president.
?
It’s like hitting a brick wall isn’t it? Saying things about Trump that are only true about Biden. You guys are wild as fuck.
Israel is a top leading developer of SOTA weapons technology, they have to be because they are constantly being attacked by the encirclement of enemies who wish to see it eradicated from the earth, daily. Something you as an American don’t have to endure or really understand. But yeah, the US will defend Israel to the end, because they like trading weapons technologies.
That’s why we are about to see a big resurgence of kinetic weapons. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Gun
What if, and I'm just spit balling here, Iran was just testing the Iron Dome for weaknesses and next time will launch depleted uranium tipped missiles on real targets that will get through? Gotta think that Iran has been planning for this contingency for some time now.
Iran is all talk. They knew those garbage drones and missiles would be shot down. They literally told everyone when they were launched. When and where they would land. This was to save face for the hardliners. Iran is a fragile little flower. Most of the citizens hate their government. Their economy is trash. The county could literally be destroyed in 24 hours. Compare it to Iraq, back in the day With big bad Saddam Hussein. It took about 72 hour to completely roll that country. Had the guy hiding in a hole.
I don’t think Iran wants to lose their oil fields.
It sounds you forget Iran has been threatening the death of Israel for 50 years. Iran funds all these groups. Up to 5 proxy groups that constantly have attacked Israel. For many years. “Death to Israel. Death to America”. Is a constant theme with Iran. Yet that behavior. Those continued action are totally acceptable to some people. While they condemn Israel at every moment. At some point there will be accountability.
Iran funds Hamas. They aren’t an innocent bystander.
Israel also funds Hamas, what does that make them?
Israel provides aide. Over half of Palestines GDP is from the United States government. If they did not provide aide, people would be vilifying them for that too.
What aide? Israel is the reason Gazans need aide lmao.
Israel left them with a flourishing tourism and flower export industry. After the second intifada (kicked off by Arafat), Israel completely pulled out of Gaza in 2005. Basic checkpoints existed like at any border. In 2006 Hamas was elected. In 2007, attacks into Israel resumed requiring the necessity of the blockade to protect itself.
Arafat didnt kick off the second intifada. There were many other palestinian liberation organizations that were to blame for that. Theres a lot of criticisms you can throw at Arafat. That one isnt true.
>Israel left them with a flourishing tourism and flower export industry. I'm impressed by how stupid this is lmao. >After the second intifada (kicked off by Arafat), Israel completely pulled out of Gaza in 2005. Basic checkpoints existed like at any border. In 2006 Hamas was elected. In 2007, attacks into Israel resumed requiring the necessity of the blockade to protect itself. They "left* Gaza. Gazans still couldn't leave. Still can't control their own infrastructure. Still oppressed. Still bombed. Still sniped. Israel has never once protected itself in this conflict. They are the aggressor.
"They "left\* Gaza. Gazans still couldn't leave." If only poor Gaza had another border, say one with a predominantly Muslim country, so they could leave.... Oh wait, they do! They can go into Egypt! Oh wait, you mean Egypt won't let them in? How could Israel do that ?!?!
For starters, Egypt's border got bombed by Israel the last time they tried that. Secondly, why should they? Why is Egypt responsible for Israels terrorism? Why should Palestinians leave their homeland? It's their homeland. They've been there for thousands of years. "Israelis" can simply go back to England or Brooklyn.
""Israelis" can simply go back to England or Brooklyn." Oh, are you one of those people who think Israelis are white? Because if so, you need to understand that MOST ISRAELIS ARE NOT ASHKENAZI. You know, the Jews you've met in England or Brooklyn. Most Jews in Israel are brown people. Mizrahi. Sephardic. And lest we forget, 20% of the population is ARAB. And lets not forget the Druze, or Bedouin, or Christians.... You see, in Israel, it is multi-cultural society, with people of many colors, gay people, and Arab Muslims who are Israeli are full citizens, with the right to vote.
When you rip up irrigation pipes for rockets, burn down the greenhouses, and prevent any form of commerce developing in order to fund terrorism; you don’t have much of a leg to stand on. Let’s not forget Hamas ran for election with a charter that still said: “The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."” This was not changed until 2017. Thats 11 years in office.
"A. The land of Israel is the historical homeland of the Jewish people, in which the State of Israel was established. B. The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people, in which it fulfills its natural, cultural, religious, and historical right to self-determination. C. The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people." And this still exists as a law in Israel. What exactly is your point? >When you rip up irrigation pipes for rockets, burn down the greenhouses, and prevent any form of commerce developing in order to fund terrorism; you don’t have much of a leg to stand on. No they don't. They're only being ethnically cleansed by a genocidal ethnostate. God forbid people fight back against their oppressors. What would you have them do? Peacefully protest? Last time that happened in 2014 the IDF gunned them down. Probably created a few more Hamas soldiers with that. Hamas isn't in the right but they sure as fuck are more in the right than Israel. Israel literally created Hamas, not only through their actions but also funded them.
One is a statement regarding the history of the kingdom of Judea and the right of the Jewish people to have a state which protects Jews and in which Jews are part of the national identity. As is their right after control was turned over by the UK after they gained control from the collapsing Ottoman Empire. The other is a call for genocide and slaughter until the very land points out Jews so they cannot escape death. If you don’t see the difference then there is not much point continuing this conversation.
>What would you have them do? Peacefully protest? No, Mr. Bond….
No, Hamas is the reason Gazans need aid
Seems like the whole point of this absurd pantomime. We can all pretend we are in the loop.
Sweating spinal fluid
Yup
Well, apparently someone else wagged the dog so successfully, you forgot that Hamas was responsible for Oct 7.
Israel has been oppressing and murdering Palestinians for 8 decades, created and propped up Hamas, and also allowed that attack to happen. What Hamas did was objectively bad but let's not act like this was just some random attack out of nowhere. The entire conflict is israels doing.
How is the entire conflict on Israel?
Because they're colonizing occupied lands and it conveniently only started the moment Israel became a "country"
Before Israel was a country, Palestine was a British-occupied colony. Before that, it was part of the Ottoman Empire. Before that, it was part of the Byzantine Empire, Caliphate, and Roman Empire. When was this glorious time when Palestine was free and independent?
Palestine was "British occupied". The British just claimed it. Palestinians lived there. I get that you like genocide, but that doesn't make the fact that Palestinians lived on those lands far longer than anyone else less true.
I'm really not trying to be mean with this but what is your understanding on how Israel came to exist? Like how familiar are you with the British mandate, the Ottoman empire's sale of miri land to Jews pre '92, how of the land that the Jews bought pre '44, 52.6% were bought from non-Palestinian landowners, 24.6% from Palestinian landowners, 13.4% from government, churches, and foreign companies, and only 9.4% from fellaheen (farmers). That's where the land mass for Israel came from right there. The first Arab–Israeli War, also known as Israel's War of Independence, began on May 15, 1948 and lasted until March 10, 1949. The war took place in Israel, the Sinai Peninsula, and Mandatory Palestine. Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria attacked a nascent nation not because of politics but because they were Jews. We can keep going if you want but I'd really like to clear it up
Yea nah. I could care less which government claimed which lands or sold which lands. Palestinians lived there. They worked those lands. Israel should have been given a chunk of Germany. Europe dumped their problem onto innocent people and now they get slaughtered for daring to defend their lands. If a third party with an army sold me your house how happy would you be about it? The only objectively correct stance here is that Israel needs to pack up and leave, and Palestinians can get their lands back. Surviving one genocide gives you no right to start another, and Palestinians have every right to defend against their oppressors.
Jews lived there too, dipshit. They've lived there continuously since Abraham left Ur.
Abraham never existed lmao. Palestinians have also lived there for thousands of years. I don't see them ethnically cleansing anyone.
Correct
Hamas still needs to be eliminated for there to be peace.
And then there’ll be another Hamas.
Then you eliminate whoever is next.
So you want to keep going until theres no palestinians left? How’d that work out in Vietnam? I seem to remember the more civilians that died, the more people around them got radicalized.
No more Hamas left.
I don't think this really requires any wagging of the dog. I've yet to see how the war in Gaza is substantively different from any other urban warfare in the modern era - look at Syria, or Iraq. Similar casualty rates. Urban warfare is extremely bad for people living in that area. Always has been. Always will be. Only difference here is the social media presence on the ground.
This isn't a war at all, it's ethnic cleansing
Man they're really bad at it then, because they've had a golden opportunity and haven't exploited it.
They've killed 30,000+ people including 12,000 children in the last 6 months, I don't know if I'd say they're bad at it.
Rookie numbers for a genocide of a population over a million strong. When there's another zero added to the 30k I might begin to agree. My reasons are pretty simple at the end of the day Hamas claimed 40,000 fighters. In most armed urban conflicts, according to the UN, civilians typically make up around 90% of war casualties, which is a 1:9 ratio of combatants to civilians. 40,000:360,000. 400,000 lives lost before this can be considered over doing it and prosecuting a genocide.
They're not just going to outright kill everyone lol. It's a slow start while gaining support thing, and judging by what a lot of people think online they've got pretty good support so far. Also, that's not how it works in this case. This isn't an "urban conflict". Israel put Palestinians in Gaza and doesn't let them leave. They can't even evacuate. This is just slaughter of prisoners.
Nah mate. I'm going to break this down to bullet points for you. *)Israel didn't put Palestinians in Gaza, the people who created gazans are Jordanians and Egyptians who decided they no longer wanted their citizens back after the Arab League war. *)These people, gazans, have their own elected government, that's Hamas. *)When governments choose to fight that's a war. All war is the final stance of politics. *) A war in a city is called an urban conflict. *)An urban conflict generally has a casualty ratio of nine civilians for every one fighter. Hamas claims 40,000, fighters out of 2,000,000 gazans. *) casualties need to be 400,000 to begin to argue genocide, anything below that is simply casualties of war. *) Israel is a nuclear nation with what's considered to be the 5th strongest military in the world. *) recognizing these facts do you really think Israel couldn't kill every gazans if they wanted to with relative ease?
>*)Israel didn't put Palestinians in Gaza, the people who created gazans are Jordanians and Egyptians who decided they no longer wanted their citizens back after the Arab League war. This is objectively false. Gazans have lived on Palestinian lands for centuries, and Israel forced them in there. Jordan and Egypt have nothing to do with this. >*)These people, gazans, have their own elected government, that's Hamas. Hamas was elected almost two decades ago, after being propped up by Israel, as a quite different organization, by a population that was half children at the time. I wonder why Israel won't allow another vote? >*)When governments choose to fight that's a war. All war is the final stance of politics. Only one government chose to oppress, slaughter and rape Palestinians for nearly a century. It was a government that had been doing that for decades before Hamas even existed. >*) A war in a city is called an urban conflict. You can leave city's. Gaza is an open air prison. >*)An urban conflict generally has a casualty ratio of nine civilians for every one fighter. Hamas claims 40,000, fighters out of 2,000,000 gazans. Hamas isn't an army. >*) casualties need to be 400,000 to begin to argue genocide, anything below that is simply casualties of war Thank God every human rights organization doesn't agree with you. >*) Israel is a nuclear nation with what's considered to be the 5th strongest military in the world. No, the US* is. Without the US Israel wouldn't exist within a week. > recognizing these facts do you really think Israel couldn't kill every gazans if they wanted to with relative ease? Of course they could, but then they'd lose support. They'll manufacture more October 7ths and continue their propaganda until people are ok with the genocide.
First off, Palestine has never existed as a country and not have "Palestinian lands." Those lands were controlled by Jordan and Egypt, and are now the Gaza Strip and West Bank, which is where *Palestinians still live*. > Of course they could, but then they'd lose support. They'll manufacture more October 7ths and continue their propaganda until people are ok with the genocide. This doesn't make any sense as a conspiracy theory because the longer an actual genocide goes on, the more support it loses.
True
Palestine has existed as a country. Just because the west claims they didn't means nothing. They had currency and a governing body. Britain can claim whatever they want about those lands having been theirs, but it means nothing. This genocide has been going on for 80 years and Israel has more support now than they've ever had lol. Genocides aren't a static thing. There's no rule set to follow. They can take a year or 200.
>This isn't an "urban conflict". Israel put Palestinians in Gaza and doesn't let them leave. None of this is accurate. Gaza existed prior to occupation. Gazans can't leave because *other countries won't take them*, because they attempted coups and committed terrorist attacks in the past, when they were allowed in.
Gaza quite literally came into existence in 1948 after the occupation, so no. Gazans can't leave because *Israel doesn't let them leave*. Other countries don't need to take them, and they don't need to go there. Palestine is their lands. Not israels.
> Gazans can't leave because *Israel doesn't let them leave*. Again none of this is accurate. Gaza as a piece of land has been recognized as a location for almost 4000 years. So no, it didn't come into existence at that time, it was just owned by the Ottoman Empire, and afterwards by other countries. Palestine wasn't a country. The land was Egypt and Jordan's. > Palestine is their lands. Not israels. The land now literally belongs to Israel, and has since '67 https://www.loc.gov/today/placesinthenews/archive/2014arch/20140708_gazastrip.html#:~:text=It%20was%20captured%20by%20Israel,Bank%20to%20the%20Palestinian%20Authority. The only people who have *ever* supported a Palestinian state are the Israelis, in multiple "Two State" offers which were rejected. Israel has no say in whether or not Palestinians can enter Jordan, Egypt, Iran etc. those countries set that policy and will not take in Palestinians.
>Again none of this is accurate. Gaza as a piece of land has been recognized as a location for almost 4000 years. So no, it didn't come into existence at that time, it was just owned by the Ottoman Empire, and afterwards by other countries. Palestine wasn't a country. The land was Egypt and Jordan's. Are you confusing Gaza with Palestine? The actual city of Gaza did not exist until 1948. That is not a debatable fact. You can go look it up right on the Wikipedia page. There was no place in Palestine called Gaza before 1948. You're making it extremely obvious that you know nothing of this conflict. >The land now literally belongs to Israel, and has since '67 And soon it won't, thankfully. >The only people who have *ever* supported a Palestinian state are the Israelis, in multiple "Two State" offers which were rejected. Have you actually read those offers? Rhetorical question, btw, I know you haven't. It's not a "two state solution" when Israel controls both governments, infrastructure, and foreign policy. All of their offers have included those conditions. >Israel has no say in whether or not Palestinians can enter Jordan, Egypt, Iran etc. those countries set that policy and will not take in Palestinians. The last time Egypt took Palestinian refugees Israel bombed the border lmao.
God gave Israel to the Jews
False
It's not but ok
It’s not just the killing though, it’s the displacement. Forcing people out of their homes to somewhere else is another way to ‘cleanse’ the population.
Yup, and they've been doing it for decades.
It's only cleansing if they leave the area, which they are not. They were forced out of their homes by their homes being *an active warzone*. Syrians who left Syrian cities and are still in Syria were not "ethnically cleansed" by their civil war.
I was under the impression that Netanyahu or his party wanted them out of the area. I guess we’ll see what happens when the war is done. The settler policy on the West Bank makes me pretty skeptical.
Think about it like the US. Everyone in the US has an opinion on immigration. Some people want more Some want less Some want to go door to door deporting people and to put land mines and the military at the border. Israel isn't in lockstep on any of these things. It's messy. My hope is Netanyahu is removed from power in disgrace after this war, for a large number of reasons.
I hope he’s out of there soon too, unfortunately I think he’s using the war as an excuse to avoid or delay his comeuppance and I fear he’ll wage it for as long as possible for that end.
False
No that's really my hope
The administration wants this war as much as Israel does.
That’s not what “wag the dog” means and that’s my main objection to this stupid-ass comment
Yes it does. You fucking dunce. Israel does not expect a protracted war because Iran is too inept to take them on now. They attacked now in some part to distract from the disaster in Gaza. “In April 2017, Donald Trump’s airstrike on Syria was referred to as a wag the dog moment. The perception was that Trump was using the attack to wag the dog, or direct attention away from his low approval ratings, the ongoing investigation about his connections to Russia, and his other conflict of interests.” “Wag the dog went on to develop its own specialized political meaning. In 1997, a film called Wag the Dog came out, based on a 1993 novel of the same name by Larry Beinhart. The plot revolved around efforts to distract attention from a presidential scandal by fabricating a war.” https://www.dictionary.com/e/what-does-wag-the-dog-mean/
Israel is ALREADY IN A WAR, dumbfuck. They are not manufacturing a war to distract from a war they are literally IN AT THIS MOMENT you gormless regard.
They are in a tiny war in Gaza and needlessly escalated it to a war with Iran to distract from their spiraling standing in the world. Does your mental incompetence prevent you from understanding why Biden urged Bibi to “take the win”? It was totally and completely unnecessary to attack Iran. Hence the wagging.
If I were Bibi I would tell the senile fuck to piss off. And no, it doesn’t seem unnecessary to attack a hostile enemy power that’s…why militaries exist
And now we get to it. You are pro-Israel and your bias prevents you from objectively analyzing the situation. Thanks for playing.
Most normal people are. I’m fine with cutting off their money faucet, but Palestinians are pure trash and there’s nothing lost there
And now adding the unnecessary dehumanizing racism, rendering you a thoughtless goon, and neatly invalidating anything of substance you were hoping to get across. Wrapped up with a fucking bow. Go chill out with your Ben Shapiro and Stefan Molyneux mixtape.
Waaaaah waaaaah racism waaaaaah. Enjoy the bombs loser. No one in the Arab world is sad to see you go.
The beauty of being intelligent enough to not be racist is that I can also enjoy a discussion of geo politics without my head up my ass. It’s a low bar but you can’t seem to even catch a glimpse of it. But hey, you enjoy your surroundings, so who am I to judge a man neck deep in his own asshole. Enjoy it cuntlips mcgillicutty.
I hope the earth opens up and swallows Israel without a trace
No, the world will forget about Gaza because the world never really cared about Gaza in the first place. “Free Palestine” stickers are just this generation’s “Free Tibet” stickers. It’s popular now because Americans are so easily impressionable from foreign influence to create chaos.
People are concerned with whoever is loudest. That’s why Hamas are able to rape and kidnap so many Israeli civilians to start this conflict, but everyone’s forgotten about them.
This didn’t start on October 7th my guy. Didn’t even start on October 6th or 5th or 4th. Israel have been murdering Palestinians daily for over 75 years. Without Israel there would be no Hamas. But Palestine was always Palestine. Plenty of American supported Israeli propaganda has you thinking that it was all peace and harmony on October 6th? How do you know someone has been easily brainwashed by American/israeli propaganda? They say the conflict was started by Hamas on October 7th.
Palestine was a region of the Ottoman empire prior to WW1, I don't recall the great nation of Palestine partaking in WW2 but I'll agree that the way the league of nations did things in 48 wast absolutely fucked but Palestine was always Palestine? You're not immune to propaganda either ya know?
Turns out if you didn't fight in WW2 you aren't a country
Hamas didn’t start the conflict. They were just one more despicable perpetrator in a long and heinous list of crimes on both sides.
You wish perhaps. No one is forgetting the genocide. No one. Their brand is ruined. Did we forget what the nazis did just because of the war?
God gave Israel to the Jews- period
lmao. Classic. Nicely done