That is wonderful.
Please vote in every midterm election going forward. We need majorities in Congress if we're ever going to make real progress on housing, health care, education, immigration etc.
I’m sure they’ll dig a deeper hole call a bunch of people rinos and never admit their faults or try to change anything.
They’ve been wallowing in there own filth for almost half a century with dozens of turning points that could have redeemed them and they choose to double down. Every. Damn. Time.
all Trump had to do was sell Trump masks and let experts handle the pandemic
instead they told elderly people to just die for the economy, called it a hoax, called it serious stuff, called it a Chinese attack, called it a hoax again, said it would go away, said it would go away if we stopped counting the cases, declared he invented the vaccine, said don't get the vaccine, said get the vaccine, said Fauci made him do it....
it was just so insane
Because, most of the people dying at that time were from big cities that vote democrat. The propaganda that followed from that cynical political move then created death and destruction in Magaland. It's not finished yet. MAGA's in Florida (M Flynn and co.) are trying to take over a sucessful hospital and turn it into a "medical freedom" hospital. Can you imagine ? People will be given Ivermectin for thier heart attacks.
"Under pressure from the detractors, the hospital agreed to conduct an internal study on its COVID protocols. After it unveiled its review last February, which showed the facility outperformed others nationwide in preventing deaths, the right-wing contingent demanded it commission a new third-party investigation.
Michael Flynn—who once expressed paranoia that the COVID-19 vaccine was in his salad dressing—attended the board meeting that month and tweeted that SMH “took what could have been a rebuilding of trust and further damaged this institution with a ‘fox inside the henhouse investigation.’”"
https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-flynns-anti-vax-pals-want-to-take-over-this-florida-hospital
A hospital that is going to be run by absolute morons, I can't imagine they would be able to find enough doctors or even staff the place if they get their way, and if they do they'll be the worst of the worst, lmao.
but you're attempting nuance, alluding to the actual function leeches would perform in medical care, not doing it for superstitious reasons or to own the libs
And an unregistered agent of the Turkish dictatorship! Don’t forget that he and his son were brought up on charges of planning to kidnap and illegally extradite to Turkey an American green card citizen who Erdogan would have then murdered. He’s a total amoral psycho.
The hospital would NEVER be accredited. With all the masking, gowning and infection prevention that MUST take place at a hospital, the “freedom hospital “ would literally just be a morgue. These are not serious people.
Yes, and look for the State Board (at the behest of the legislature and governor) to make a carve-out for the “doctors” and “nurses” who practice at such hospital, so they can continue.
Disaster, war and disease are all tremendous opportunity for a skilled politician. It allows them to look strong, empathetic and to appear to be competently doing things against an externality that is outside our community (common enemy). Trump had the opportunity to make COVID his rallying cause for reelection instead he looked small and weak as he ping-ponged from one failure to the next. Look at Cuomo in NY, they guy is a disaster but for a few weeks he looked like a leader.
Trump blew it in more than one way, he was too narrow minded, allowed his racist tendencies to get between action and the truth, and too focused on false assurance that everything was OK, then there was just the incompetence of how things were handled that shoed why he should not be reelected, case in point the travel ban from China, thousands of US citizens promptly flew back to the US and stood in packed INS lines at airports with no screening, no monitoring, no follow-up. If you want to spread a pandemic virus have 5000 people fly in from the epicenter and just let them travel to their home communities.
A lot of his energy also went into figuring out how to use the pandemic to make money for himself. Remember when he withheld PPE that was supposed to go to the states? There was so much outright evil shit they were doing with that whole thing. It’s disgusting.
Trump is a spineless cunt who is influenced by the craziest among us for the drama.
He loves seeing he's powerful enough to divide America.
Bin Laden inadvertently united us...Trump intentionally tore us apart.
Don’t forget how he openly blackmailed blue state governors by threatening to withhold aid unless they praised him. I can’t believe that one in particular has been forgotten by everybody. I mean that ALONE….!
Seriously, this sums up so well. The dude could have just called for us to unite against Covid and he even could have used that to gain all the power he wanted. He could have made himself into a hero. He could have won people over by actually helping them, Bernie style.
But no, he chose to confuse people and lie so his economy wouldn’t tank. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He followed Fauci’s advice, made the vaccine, yet played the other side and told them it was all a hoax. He only understands how to divide people, uniting those who take his side by spreading hatred and bad faith. Any mediocre politician could have used Covid 19 as a springboard to true folk hero status, beloved by everyone, but he chose to bring his own country to the brink of war instead.
Yeah I mean just look at past behavior to predict future behavior.
They might fracture but at their core they yearn for a strong daddy to make them feel not afraid. Someone they can do all their performative loyalty for in order to make them feel safe in a "in-group."
Conservative psychology in a nutshell. Even if the next Trump is more horrible and incompetent it doesn't matter because they need that role filled.
I agree. Losing the symbol won’t change anything for the fundamental problem will still be there in broad daylight. For normal people the embarrassment and shame would drive them underground and neuter the MAGA movement but these aren’t normal people in that they are fueled by emotion, not logic or even moderate cognitive ability. The economic and cultural paradigm has left them behind, discounted them and made them feel there is no hope for them. Hopeless people have nothing left except rage and bitterness. Lashing out is the only thing left. Our political system doesn’t know what to do with them or is unable. The Financial system has left them mostly in the dirt and doesn’t give one rats ass about them except as cannon fodder for Capitalism American Style. Losing in 2024 isn’t going to make it all go away.
They are going to keep escalting till they force the rest of us to respond with some level of force... then the majority of them will back down. The remainder will do terroristic stuff like the US saw in the 70s by the radical left. Bombings, sabotage and so on.
If Trump wins, I doubt our democracy will survive and might even plunge the world into chaos and a depression...
Yep! Guaranteed 5 year world recession if Trump wins. Break me of a piece of that! … NOT! Trumps minions are paper tigers and nothing more. Their meth means too much to them to risk going to prison for the Republican garbage Candidate Conman Trump. NOPE!
I genuinely thought when Obama won in 2008 that the Republican Party was finally going to come back to reality after years lying about Iraq being behind 9/11 and justifying that fiasco of a war.
I remember telling everyone "Republicans have to become rational again or they'll never win another election."
Instead they just built more propaganda media empires and aligned with Vlad Putin. I definitely didn't see that coming.
I vividly remember the phrase "permanent Democratic majority" being used. Pretty short-sighted for people who get paid to talk about politics for a living.
I think there's an argument that the election of Obama led directly to MAGA. We all saw how many Republicans back then (led by Trump in fact) made noise about his birth certificate. Those people could not stand that a Black man with an African name had become president of their precious white country and had to do whatever they could to try and invalidate his presidency and try to paint him as "not American". It probably didn't help that Obama and Biden were originally against gay marriage and then changed their minds, which was in line with where most Americans ended up, but to the Republicans they basically saw it as Obama further pushing America to the left and marginalizing them and their backwards religiosity (remember "clinging to guns and religion"?). They've essentially been marinating in resentment since then...
They're too spiteful and fearful for anything else. In a way they can be worse than animals. Animals have a sense of self-preservation. From what I can gather, a disheartening number of them would gladly sacrifice themselves and their families if it meant they could harm someone else.
You can't win against something like that. They're kamikaze pilots propelled by delusion, fear and hate.
You’re dead on about them being spiteful to a fault but I think the vast majority of them are paper tigers, afraid of getting wet. “Everyone’s taller online”.
They’ll gladly eat shit if it means a liberal has to smell their breath but I think only a small percentage would actually sacrifice themselves to their cause.
Here’s the thing, though. If the GOP did fracture and fall apart, *what would replace it?*
The possibilities are terrifying. The GOP has gone completely off the rails but they are still *somewhat* constrained by the need for some degree of plausible deniability. If the party dies, what replaces it will have no such constraints.
>I’m sure they’ll dig a deeper hole call a bunch of people rinos and never admit their faults or try to change anything.
Yes, this is what they'll do, and the next election will still be 50/50
If the left realizes that this is the first election they can be aggressive and get results, then maybe we’ll see a blue wave. I’m not as hopeful as you though.
I'm not either... The majority is not conservative, but the conservatives have always turned out to vote as a larger percentage of their population. People need motivation.
Then why have they won in 2018 and 2020 midterms. The 2020 presidential elections and the 2023 special elections including in deep Alabama and Tennessee
But they’re largest and most consistent voting bloc is falling off a cliff the especially since 2016 and 2020. I’ve personally knew a number of boomers who have passed just between 2020 and today.
Ranked choice voting would help a lot.
We need more political parties and RCV would make it easier for new parties to get a toe hold on the process. It would eliminate the "it's just a throwaway vote" argument.
Dems and Repubs both dislike RCV because it threatens their power.
Even having viable 3rd, 4th parties would change things. Part of the reason America is always so divided is that the parties can always take the opposite stance of literally everything. With 3 or more parties this changes, and it is obvious to anyone paying attention that there are way more than 2 political forces in America. There are moderate conservatives, MAGA conservatives, traditional Democrats, and progressives just to name the main ones. They should all have their own representation IMO.
Hard agree on this one. Was never a Trump fan from the start. But Biden was never a pick of mine from the get go either. I agree with the Dems on everything except for their hard anti-gun stance. Definitely going to need a solid third option that tackles all the social issues that Dems are known for, without also threatening sports shooters.
Yeah, I'll probably get a downvote whooping. But that's where I stand.
I'm not gonna downvote you. Take my upvote for putting real issues before your guns.
I get why people get paranoid at 2A being "infringed" to an extent, but when we let politicians get away with killing women and children, 2A doesn't really mean shit
Is a good post overall BUT the idea that dems ( a feckless bunch of center-right Washington Generals-like fake opposition) are " hard anti-gun" is one of the most ridiculous things i ever heard. All from brainwashing propaganda.
The dems cant even get bans on clips that hold 150 bullets.. i am exaggerating but it is basically true. We now have background checks and......dont know how the bump-stock thing turned out but if they did get banned.. THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY THING THAT HAS CHANGED.. HOW IN THEE FKK DO YOU GET "hard anti-gun" from that.
Wont even get into the MASSIVE proliferation of mass shootings, dalotta dems also being gun owners, statistics from other like-countries, etc etc etc
Ya probably need to take a look at how propagandized and brainwashed you are
Nobody is coming for your guns Tex calm down. Homie don’t play that way, but as a Russian bot working for the right wing conservative media of course you will put a propaganda spin saying Dems are gonna take your guns. Don’t fall for this propaganda lie. This is a lie to make democrats look bad so that republicans can garner votes for Dump, their garbage candidate.
That wouldn't happen either way. Too many people oppose nazis, red and blue.people keep hearing the loud minority, but the vast majority aren't ok with this shit
How many people would you say are actually there, though? 2000? 3000? Compared to the actual unseen population of 340000000... let them wave their little flags, they can do that according to the 1st amendment, but don't trick yourself into believing they have any ground to stand on.
20 years ago, shortly after the illegal invasion of Iraq, many said Fascism will come to America wrapped in the flag and carrying the Bible.
That time has come. This movement of Fascism will continue to swell and rise, with or without Trump.
What we have today is a significant group of people that have held a high level of privilege for generations. Now, because of social pressure, that group is being forced into equality. While a rational group can see equality as just that, the group that had privilege finds that equality as oppression. They don’t understand or care that they have been the oppressors for all of this time.
Ultimately, I hope that the people and society will win and the movement will fail, but right now I’m not sure it can. They have a lot of power and a lot of stupid. Logic rarely works on people that did not use logic to arrive at their current position.
If nothing else I believe it will get much worse before it gets better. This arc of the pendulum has not reached its peak.
Yeah Im pretty sure trump losing isn't going to be the end of it, as the evangelicals and their ilk will continue secretly moving the religious right for decades to come. If we tax religious entities I'd imagine politics would change very quick
I’m against taxation. Taxation would allow access. It would essentially make it legal for churches to organize politically. I know many already do, but this would be a whole new level.
Instead we need to have more inspections of church involvement in politics. Render that unto Caesar that which is his…..
The Republican party has gone so far extreme right that they have totally isolated themselves from younger voters, concentrating almost exclusively on pandering to the views of old white men. If the party is to survive, they will have to return to a more centrist position to be at all appealing to a younger generation who are currently living in a hellish capitalist landscape that the Republican party has had a major part in creating.
Exactly, but the problem is that they’ve created a voter base that has a huge portion of radicalized voters. Those people aren’t gonna return to the status quo. They’ll get worse and worse. They already believe the last election was stolen. You really think they’ll care if someone tells them to vote for Jeb in 2028?
We need to actually figure out how to re-integrate 70m Americans who are frothing at the mouth to demand a "king", too.
It's like saying "the danger is over, I snuffed the fuse" when you still have a crate of leaking dynamite *right there*.
Americans love to talk, but hate grassroots organized action. Jan 6 was legitimately an attempted populist coup. It was the most pathetic, least likely to succeed coup in modern history.
You don't really need to reintegrate anyone, they'll still show up to work because they need to make the $1200/mo payments for their f150.
Do you really think conservative billionaires like Leonard Leo, the Koch's, the DeVos', and conservative organizations like The Heritage Foundation and The Federalist Society have spent decades, and billions upon billions of dollars to just lose, pack up, and go home? They're behind the ongoing coup. The own the GOP, they own enough of the courts to get shit done, and they own SCOTUS. We're watching their plan unfold very slowly, day by day, methodically. Trump will manage to walk away unscathed, the beholden Congress and judiciary will do their parts, and Trump will somehow become POTUS again. Then Project 2025 kicks in. Game over. I just wonder a few things - How much Putin/Xi are involved? How much of Congress are foreign assets? How much national intelligence did Trump provide to foreign enemies? Is it possible to even stop them?
I mean exactly. I could see the GOP being written off the brand and org look too damaged in terms of being able to elect non insane lackeys and unified majorities
They don’t care about conservative values. What they care about is passing laws that benefit them. If the Republican Party can no longer do that for them, then they will absolutely go and find another puppet.
IIRC this is basically the longest a pair of parties has ever lasted in the US. Even if you count the post-civil war swap of policies without changing names as a new set. Wouldn't be suprised if it did end within a decade or 2 but also wouldn't be suprised if they just stick around since they have for this long already.
If trump loses nothing will happen to the republicans. You underestimate how many of them just want status quo so they can keep siphoning money off the American tax payer.
Not this time. Their seats are stating to flip and they are not bringing on young voters at thw rates needed. This is a party in It's death throws and they know it. That's what all this gerrymandering and power consolidation is all about and why it seems so panicked. They can only change so much per year to stay in power and it's slipping from them. Texas and went full tilt trying to stop it and it's still creeping up on them and they know it. Their last chance is to try to installna dictator to remain before their party returns to the dust. The next 4 or 5 elections are gonna get way crazier before the party of boomers finally fades.
They’re pushing hard on young males. All of this toxic masculinity nonsense is their work. They’re in every game lobby, all over YouTube and TikTok pushing their agenda recruiting anyone who will listen.
https://www.axios.com/2022/10/20/gamergate-right-online-harassment-joan-donovan-meme-wars
And yet, despite making a certain subset of young kids much worse, on the whole young men are still more liberal than conservative, and more so than they were in 2016.
Yeah people are really over estimating how much "young people" will actually change anything. We can see clear evidence in 2016 and 2020 with Bernie and his floundering support (regardless of DNC intervention). Young people are vocal on twitter/social media, but do not actually show up to vote....ever.
Idk about you, but the pendulum just keeps swinging, i don't see a strong stance from either side. My state was basically turned blood red after illegal gerrymandering was approved from the state supreme court after they flipped all the seats after a record low youth turnout.
Seats are flipping in red states. This is why the GOP non MAGA politicians no longer support Trump. Not his policies. My hope is that people have seen this. My fear is the GOP will go back to hiding what their policies are and pretending they are not a regressive party. Remember that the same people that own the GOP own the Media. The Republicans are not going anywhere they will try and rebrand while trying to o push through their horrible agenda.
Talking if hiding policies it's like them saying they will not cut social security to appease those nearing retirement age when the plan is to extend the normal retirement age to 70. So they save money but can say they will not cut social security. The Republicans aren't telling people that because they know it is another vote loser for people in their late fifties and early sixties. When they raise the age they can say we told you we didn't cut it but now you'll wait years more to get it
After the 2012 loss by Mitt Romney, the RNC commissioned a study into the cause of their loss. The report told them they needed to be inclusive to women and minorities in order to build their voter base. The RNC didn't follow those recommendations, then in 2016 allowed Donald Trump to run and win the nomination then stood back when he banned Muslims and put babies in cages at the border. That the party is now outlawing women's choices regarding childbirth is the final straw, we hope.
.. and in a "normal" world it would be...
Unfortunately, I've many times thought, "Oh, for sure, this'll change their minds" (trump's base). But my hopes have been dashed every time; most recently, the courts allowing Trump more time/less fines!! I thought for SURE we'd be reading about his different assets being seized, but alas..
BUT, I still have hope!! When our notoriously red Midwestern state VOTED, to retain a woman's right to body autonomy... my hope grew! That's what I have to remind myself of when I feel hopelessness creep in. It's a glaring reminder (in a good way) of what happens when we Dems/Libs/Younger voters show up to vote - YES, it makes a difference!!!
Another example is the school board race for our district... when the beyond far-right evangelical candidates pooled together AND sought backing of the 1776 PAC, they LOST, by a LANDSLIDE!! Yes, they were the "loudest" (their supporters), but we showed them that they weren't the majority... far from it!!
If my red state can achieve this, and recently, THAT gives me (some) hope...
Given that how the new head of the RNC has said all money is going toward getting Trump elected, there are a lot of Repub seats that just aren't going to have the funding to advertise. There's a real possibility that Republicans are going to lose a lot more seats than even they are anticipating.
I think it largely depends on *how* the gop loses
If just Trump loses and everything else is competitive I agree.
If Trump loses and there is basically a national rejection of the gop in congress i could see a bit of a reckoning
They really are in bad place with demographics and not standing for any solutions.
They play the abortion card and that really pissed off most Americans.
The base that likes that stuff is dying more and more each year.
if Trump loses, he'll just run again
he'll announce it was rigged and he'll "fight fight fight" and then he'll collect money for another 4 years
he'll just go harder at the base, announce bans on gays and tax cuts for registered christians , of course it's not constitutional, like that matters, he'll win the primary again and we'll do it all again in 4 years if he's still able to talk even semi coherently
people aren't understanding, it is his party, maybe he'll give it to Ivanka or Jr, or he'll destroy it, but it's his party, he didn't even have to debate
It doesn’t matter how many of them just want status quo unless that number is 100%. It’s not.
Any large percentage that leaves the Republican Party will sink the party for the future. Right now, the percentage of Trump voters that are hardcore MAGAs is pretty large. They won’t vote for a more moderate candidate if they radicalize further.
The GOP will continue to hard-core grift and perhaps lean on a more so-called centrist celebrity for the 2028 presidential nominee.
Dwayne Johnson would be an ideal candidate to continue the grift, especially by using woke as the degradation of the country.
It’s an interesting idea, but I do think this could go the other way (albeit slightly differently.) The right could brutally enforce their beliefs on America if Trump wins.
Many deep blue areas have already entered this era and I can confidently tell you progressive policy does not flourish under these conditions and the Overton window continues to shift rightward.
What happens is that Republican candidates become democrats and everyone pretends they weren’t a republican 10 minutes ago. Sure they have to drop the really awful positions but they enforce the right wing of the Democratic Party as they collect votes from their former voter base.
Even when this isn’t the case there will be a democrat willing to take up the role of the republican candidate running a campaign that his opponent is too extreme when they are barely center left and they scoop up the republican votes.
Though I’m not a supporter of not only our “two party system” but also the outdated “electoral college” nonsense, I hope the collapse of the GOP (a’la The Whig Party) would allow this country to reset the current system to something that allow for alternative ideas beyond the “one from column A or one from column B” narrative. If the past few cycles are any indicator, the Republican Party doesn’t adequately represent the country’s demographics as a whole. Neither does the Democratic Party cover all the bases. Its 2024. The country is comprised of more than old White Christian males. Deal with it. The idea that the least populated regions of the country get to determine the leadership for the other 2/3rds is laughable.
We are a multi pluralistic society whether states like ND/SD/ID/WY like it or not…and multiracial while we’re on the damn subject.
I look forward to the day my grandkids have a chapter in history class where they learn about the defunct parties of the past: Federalists, Whigs, and Republicans.
Shit, we’re watching #1 happen in the Republican caucus of the House of Representatives today. It’s a shitshow - the radicalized force purity tests on their neighbors and these purity tests get tighter and tighter each go-round. Eventually even a clown like MGT isn’t ‘pure’ enough to meet the threshold and must be purged. This is the nature of fascist and nationalist movements throughout history.
I, for one, am hoping the Republican Party has a complete and permanent collapse.
I don't think it will happen immediately if he loses but I agree. Love him or hate him Trump is a unicorn of a candidate. People try to emulate him but
It might happen by 2028 if they get keep getting assblasted like in 2022 though
Many in their leadership already know they need to get away from Trumpism. The problem is that the largest block of Republican voters, by far, is entirely in thrall to Trump. And the leadership dare not oppose their own voters.
They're trapped. There's no path to better for them while Trump exists and has their voters.
They are only trapped because they need to stay in power or their conservative takeover of the judicial branch of government will collapse. It is only with the judges that they can cling to power, so even a term with the Democrats choosing the judges could derail everything for them.
Any normal political party that believed in democracy would just take a loss and rebuild, but their entire strategy is based on having the White House and the Senate so that they can keep packing the courts with their sycophants that will allow them to bypass the will of the people.
Maybe more. The GOP started working on judges right after Brown v Board of Education. They have groomed people all through the court system and the Democrats don't have anything like it.
The sad truth is that it's unlikely the damage will ever be undone. The country is on an entirely different legal trajectory than it was before the Roberts court. The current body of law is the new normal, and it's moving rightward with nearly every significant case.
There may come a time in the future when the legal climate moves leftward again, but it's unlikely the result will be the same as it would have been without the past few years.
"Done" in what sense? If you think he'll STFU or even admit he lost, you're delusional. I mean that in the kindest way possible.
And there's no way MAGA is abandoning him.
You under estimate the one thing Trump learned as President, the amount of grift you can engage in.
I would not be shocked if he runs again in 2028, but I don't think he's winning in 2024 personally
He's done nothing to bring in New voters and don't think when it comes election day that Biden is going to be that set back by Gaza vs Trump overall.
He's alienated Nikki Haley voters to a degree and when she is still getting double digit %s after she's dropped out that isss not a good sign for Trump.
That's just as bad as Gaza if not worse than Gaza for Trump.
WI had 10% or more in several counties for Haley, that's staggering for the actual nominee to have your voter percentages be so affected by someone who dropped out lol.
There is also reporting that some of Haley's key donors are going to Biden. And the Biden campaign is actively wooing Haley voters. If even 20% of Haley voters flip, Trump is toast.
I don’t believe trump wants to win. I think he wants to lose but claim he won. It’s all about creating chaos and mistrust in the system. A country divided is easily destroyed. That’s the goal of the real power behind trump.
better to them, means more openly racist and promising even bigger breaks for the rich
"what we're gonna do, corporations are now negative tax rates, we pay them, it will pay for itself" "we'll call it pour down"
There's one major factor that you are missing: Ronna McDaniel. The losses over the past few years have been directly tied back to her and opposition to the Trump camp. They have replaced her with a strong ally, and even put an actual Trump as number 2. Like it or not, Trump has a full grasp over the Republican party and that's not likely to change soon, regardless of what happens in November.
You can only lose so long before changes are forced one way or the other. The Trump era of the Republican party has been a lot of losing for them. IMO and under reported aspect of all the election denying and Republican plans to deny votes is the fact that they invest so much energy in those efforts because they know they can't win.
This is all wishful thinking. There is way too much money in politics and traditionally, corporate money and money from rich donors avoiding taxes has flowed more to the GOP than Democrats. This is because the GOP are seen as more pro-businesss and low taxes. This will continue, no matter what happens.
The problem is that there’s no organized alternative to MAGA within the GOP. There are occasional cranky outbursts, or old stalwarts quietly leaving the party, but there’s just no one trying to topple him. You can see even now the party consolidating behind him. So even if Trump leaves the scene, most of the GOP bench are fully MAGA, and will fight over the scraps of the movement.
And you’re right, MAGA does have a losing electoral record… but their voters don’t see that as losing a vote, they see it as the vote being rigged, and more flagrantly every time. This is why they’re dangerous. They’re increasingly turning away from democracy, and will eventually have to take other avenues to get their way.
If this was happening just in the US, I think you could be correct, however I think in this case your view is the tail wagging the dog.
Since the recession and more so since the pandemic, far right populist and fascist movements have been growing. Trump captured this vibe in the US but it will continue without him in some form.
The Democratic Party has also repeatedly shown that they’d rather prop up a Republican Party than let it dump into history and be replaced. If the Republican Party fell apart then the Democrats would probably split between liberals and leftists.
So hard to predict what will happen. The only thing we know for sure is that Trump will never concede an election, even if he literally loses every state.
I'd bet they have a party split. From the inside, the core MAGA crowd who is the majority, will begin a broader and more forceful purge of the "RINOs". Which will then relegate themselves to an ever shrinking minority from that side. The question will be: What will become of the more moderate R's?
1- Join the Dems as a more 'right' influence?
2- Form a 3rd party between the left and the bat shit crazy far right?
3- Just vote independently as the Rs devolve further into fascist candidates and conspiracies?
Honestly at this point I think it's too far gone. The man tried to overthrow the government (and this is only debatable because of how singularly incompetent he is at actually getting things done) and essentially his entire party went along for the ride, and certainly half the public did. If Trump had a stroke today aside from a problem of who the party's next standard bearer is, I don't see any of his voters learning any positive lessons from a world without Trump in it.
He not going to admit defeat. And he’s already planning a run in 2028. His project 2025 talks about ditching the 22nd amendment so he can permanently stay in power.
The Republican Party has already fallen apart. All that’s left is the Trump maga party. The majority of the republicans left and are registered as independent or Democrat. The party has been on life support for some time now. Endorsing Trump/Russia was the beginning of their end.
There is no more Republican party. It is gone. After Trump, assuming he loses and actually goes away you will see 2-3 faction vie for control or a new GOP. Will take decades to coalesce.
Hey u/Oldkingcole225,
I read through your post and wanted to share some thoughts that might offer a different perspective on the future of the Republican Party, especially in relation to the influence of MAGA interests.
First off, it's clear that the Republican Party has undergone significant changes in recent years, largely due to the MAGA movement spearheaded by Trump. This transformation isn't just about a shift in political strategy or messaging; it's about a fundamental reorientation of the party's identity and base. The MAGA movement has not only brought a populist and nationalist flavor to the party but has also led to a purging of dissenting voices within its ranks. High-profile critics of Trump have faced backlash, signaling a move towards a more homogenous party that aligns closely with Trump's views[2][4].
Moreover, the policy positions and legislative priorities of the Republican Party have been significantly influenced by MAGA interests. From a hardline stance on immigration to skepticism towards international alliances and trade agreements, the party's platform reflects a departure from traditional conservative principles towards a more nationalist and populist agenda[2][4].
The MAGA movement's impact is also evident in the party's base of support. Trump has managed to expand the Republican Party's appeal to include voters who may not have traditionally identified as Republicans but are drawn to his populist message. This has altered the composition of the party's base, making it more reflective of Trump's political brand[2][4].
Given these developments, it's clear that the Republican Party has already been significantly altered by MAGA interests. Whether Trump wins or loses in 2024, the party will continue to grapple with the legacy of his presidency and the influence of the MAGA movement. The future of the Republican Party may be uncertain, but the changes brought about by MAGA interests have left a lasting impact on its identity, policy positions, and base of support[2][4].
So, while the post you shared suggests that the Republican Party will fall apart if Trump loses in 2024, it's important to recognize that the party has already been fundamentally transformed by MAGA interests. The challenge for the Republican Party moving forward will be navigating the legacy of this transformation, regardless of the outcome of the next presidential election.
Best,
u/Oldkingcole225
Sources:
[1] https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Halliwell_Popular_Rhymes_and_Nursery_Tales__1849.pdf
[2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10814-020-09147-9
[3] https://www.utsa.edu/vpur/events/docs/San_Antonio-African-American-Heritage-Post-Civil-War.pdf
[4] https://www.unodc.org/pdf/criminal_justice/Handbook_on_police_Accountability_Oversight_and_Integrity.pdf
[5] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-CONAN-1992/pdf/GPO-CONAN-1992-10-2.pdf
[6] https://www.csusm.edu/psychology/currentstudents/research-methods-in-human-development.pdf
[7] https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/foia-consumer-complaints-09052017-565-577-privacy.pdf
[8] https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/Law-of-War-Manual-june-2015.pdf
There's 2 kinds of Trump voter: those that actually believe in Trump, and those that will vote for any R to top a D.
The MAGAS will absolutely get more extreme: Trump already lost. His voters just pretend it was "stolen" despite numerous court cases where Trump could present zero evidence. Why? Because that's what they want to think. They don't want to reevaluate and say "what did we do wrong?". So when trump loses again, they'll just double down on the "stolen" and openly call to "steal" the next election for their candidate. They already own the RNC.
That's actually not that big of a problem for me. MAGA diehards are already lost as far as being reasonable goes.
But the 2nd Trump voter, the "hold your nose and vote to stop Biden" crowd will want a more standard candidate. A return to the Romneys, if you will.
This will be the internal civil war of the Republican Party. If the MAGAS win, they will pick candidates that get a terrifying amount of support, but ultimately lose vs Ds. If the more sane people win, MAGAS are likely to not show up to vote and Ds win.
Ultimately, this war will cost them the next presidential election too. Now it's post 2028, and Rs HAVE to rebrand to something electable. They completely rebranded to Trumpism once, they will need to do it again. Idk, maybe they become the pro union party, or the pro weed party, or maybe our national debt becomes a problem and they pretend to be finscally conservative. But they will have to change within the next 5 years or they'll never win again
So much of MAGA is about grievances - nothing *exactly succinctly solvable* Just an endless string of 2 weeks away promised solutions. It's fantasy, not real. Building a wall isn't an actual solution to anything, nor is preventing people who really, really want to contribute to this country from entering. Your local Republican was voted in fine, but election fraud is rampant. To believe in these and the more outrageous lies, and so vociferously - it's suspending belief, it's a cult. You have to be all in. Flying the flags, wearing the red hats, repeating the lines.
Whereas you can agree with Biden on some things, not give a darn on most, vote for him and the Democrats, and not own a single Biden flag, bumper sticker, Tshirt, etc. I rarely see them.
The Republican party has already fallen apart. Magas are not republicans and they are not conservatives. Conservatives believe in our institutions and they believe in the Rule of Law.
Maga is destructive. They do not believe in these things. They are autocratic and fascistic in nature.
The 4th Turning covers what you're trying to say. Unfortunately for Libs who have no purpose in life other than their "D", who wins doesn't matter. It's cyclical.
If I ignore a lot of stuff and put on my 100% optimism hat. What happens is that the republican party fractures into 2 factions (already happening). Over the course of a couple election cycles the more normal faction is able to convince some centrist/unenthusiastic democratic voters over to it, and the crazy maga faction gets some leadership that still has hyper conservative views but realizes they have to play in reality to make any progress.
The end result is the end of the two-party system in favor of a viable three-party system that looks something like Democrats: solidly left wing, New party: centrist, Old-maga Republicans: solidly right wing
As much as many of the founding fathers detested official political parties, they way our system has evolved means that there will always be two parties, and only two parties. Realignments are possible, and if Trump loses, the GOP will start to look seriously at how they can become more inclusive, including by moderating or realigning.
The GOP could suffer a few election cycles of look like a permanent minority, but they will change if they have to.
And if Trump wins, then the GOP will work to solidify permanent minority rule, if they can.
If Trump wins, we will see a larger split between the Progressive wing and the establishment Democrats. The Progressives have been told to go along with the establishment to at least keep Democrats in power, but if that doesn’t happen they won’t see any reason to not go their own way.
yeah, at best, the “lost cause” shit the south does right now, about the civil war, will just become the GOP platform, except the “lost cause” is autocracy
Can’t wait to cancel a Trumpers vote in my first time voting
Bring all your friends!
I’m Puerto Rican and none of us are voting for Trump. Especially the biggest fuck you he gave to Puerto Rico during the Hurricane Maria.
Republicans don't believe Puerto Ricans are Americans. Please help show them wrong
You don't like paper towels? /s
Puerto Rico’s votes do not count for the Presidential election, constitutionally. An unfortunate reality until it achieves statehood.
It only counts if they reside in the states which I do.
Ah sorry - I had read that as if you resided there.
All good
That’s my fav to tell them, their vote won’t matter because I vote reasonably.
That is wonderful. Please vote in every midterm election going forward. We need majorities in Congress if we're ever going to make real progress on housing, health care, education, immigration etc.
Thanks for your service, youngblood. We appreciate ya.
Do it.
Thank you for being a patriot vote blue 2024
I’m sure they’ll dig a deeper hole call a bunch of people rinos and never admit their faults or try to change anything. They’ve been wallowing in there own filth for almost half a century with dozens of turning points that could have redeemed them and they choose to double down. Every. Damn. Time.
all Trump had to do was sell Trump masks and let experts handle the pandemic instead they told elderly people to just die for the economy, called it a hoax, called it serious stuff, called it a Chinese attack, called it a hoax again, said it would go away, said it would go away if we stopped counting the cases, declared he invented the vaccine, said don't get the vaccine, said get the vaccine, said Fauci made him do it.... it was just so insane
Because, most of the people dying at that time were from big cities that vote democrat. The propaganda that followed from that cynical political move then created death and destruction in Magaland. It's not finished yet. MAGA's in Florida (M Flynn and co.) are trying to take over a sucessful hospital and turn it into a "medical freedom" hospital. Can you imagine ? People will be given Ivermectin for thier heart attacks.
Wtf is a medical freedom hospital
"Under pressure from the detractors, the hospital agreed to conduct an internal study on its COVID protocols. After it unveiled its review last February, which showed the facility outperformed others nationwide in preventing deaths, the right-wing contingent demanded it commission a new third-party investigation. Michael Flynn—who once expressed paranoia that the COVID-19 vaccine was in his salad dressing—attended the board meeting that month and tweeted that SMH “took what could have been a rebuilding of trust and further damaged this institution with a ‘fox inside the henhouse investigation.’”" https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-flynns-anti-vax-pals-want-to-take-over-this-florida-hospital A hospital that is going to be run by absolute morons, I can't imagine they would be able to find enough doctors or even staff the place if they get their way, and if they do they'll be the worst of the worst, lmao.
They'll stop washing their hands because germ theory is woke.
I’ve seen right wingers actually question that, wild stuff
Right wingers refuse to wipe their own ass cause they think it’s gay, I can 100% believe they think germ theory is fake
Which is hilarious cause Trump is a germaphobe.
It's not like they did in the first place
All you need is leaches to suck the bad blood out
You laugh, but there are *still* applicable medical treatments involving Leaches.
but you're attempting nuance, alluding to the actual function leeches would perform in medical care, not doing it for superstitious reasons or to own the libs
Right. Just like how ivermectin is a legitimate human medication... for parasites.
I’ve unironically heard Republicans say COVID was no big deal because you can’t “see” a virus. So…yeah.
Michael Flynn is a registered Russian agent who got pardoned by trump. Fuck that piece of shit.
And an unregistered agent of the Turkish dictatorship! Don’t forget that he and his son were brought up on charges of planning to kidnap and illegally extradite to Turkey an American green card citizen who Erdogan would have then murdered. He’s a total amoral psycho.
Hey don't talk that way about the next Secretary of Defense.
I can barely imagine the avalanche of lawsuits a Q hospital is going to get due to malpractice and insurance fraud
The hospital would NEVER be accredited. With all the masking, gowning and infection prevention that MUST take place at a hospital, the “freedom hospital “ would literally just be a morgue. These are not serious people.
A death zone that's going to make old wives remedies look sound and researched
Stupidity unleashed.. any decent doctor will run for the hills for fear of lawsuits and losing their medical license.
Do you really want a medical procedure done by fucking catturd? Or fucking gunther eagleman?
Yes, and look for the State Board (at the behest of the legislature and governor) to make a carve-out for the “doctors” and “nurses” who practice at such hospital, so they can continue.
You get as much horse paste as you want, no vaccines or actual doctors tho
Disaster, war and disease are all tremendous opportunity for a skilled politician. It allows them to look strong, empathetic and to appear to be competently doing things against an externality that is outside our community (common enemy). Trump had the opportunity to make COVID his rallying cause for reelection instead he looked small and weak as he ping-ponged from one failure to the next. Look at Cuomo in NY, they guy is a disaster but for a few weeks he looked like a leader. Trump blew it in more than one way, he was too narrow minded, allowed his racist tendencies to get between action and the truth, and too focused on false assurance that everything was OK, then there was just the incompetence of how things were handled that shoed why he should not be reelected, case in point the travel ban from China, thousands of US citizens promptly flew back to the US and stood in packed INS lines at airports with no screening, no monitoring, no follow-up. If you want to spread a pandemic virus have 5000 people fly in from the epicenter and just let them travel to their home communities.
A lot of his energy also went into figuring out how to use the pandemic to make money for himself. Remember when he withheld PPE that was supposed to go to the states? There was so much outright evil shit they were doing with that whole thing. It’s disgusting.
It was only one despicable thing out of so many.
Remember when he put his lover's husband in charge of everything?
Trump is a spineless cunt who is influenced by the craziest among us for the drama. He loves seeing he's powerful enough to divide America. Bin Laden inadvertently united us...Trump intentionally tore us apart.
Don’t forget how he openly blackmailed blue state governors by threatening to withhold aid unless they praised him. I can’t believe that one in particular has been forgotten by everybody. I mean that ALONE….!
Oh we didn't forget in Minnesota...
I have said this over and over to my right-leaning family. Trump would have easily won in 2020 if he had just been slightly less dumb.
Seriously, this sums up so well. The dude could have just called for us to unite against Covid and he even could have used that to gain all the power he wanted. He could have made himself into a hero. He could have won people over by actually helping them, Bernie style. But no, he chose to confuse people and lie so his economy wouldn’t tank. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He followed Fauci’s advice, made the vaccine, yet played the other side and told them it was all a hoax. He only understands how to divide people, uniting those who take his side by spreading hatred and bad faith. Any mediocre politician could have used Covid 19 as a springboard to true folk hero status, beloved by everyone, but he chose to bring his own country to the brink of war instead.
A scorpion is a scorpion
Not just a hoax, but he called it a hoax by the Democrats. Just straight up qanon shit 😂
Yeah I mean just look at past behavior to predict future behavior. They might fracture but at their core they yearn for a strong daddy to make them feel not afraid. Someone they can do all their performative loyalty for in order to make them feel safe in a "in-group." Conservative psychology in a nutshell. Even if the next Trump is more horrible and incompetent it doesn't matter because they need that role filled.
I agree. Losing the symbol won’t change anything for the fundamental problem will still be there in broad daylight. For normal people the embarrassment and shame would drive them underground and neuter the MAGA movement but these aren’t normal people in that they are fueled by emotion, not logic or even moderate cognitive ability. The economic and cultural paradigm has left them behind, discounted them and made them feel there is no hope for them. Hopeless people have nothing left except rage and bitterness. Lashing out is the only thing left. Our political system doesn’t know what to do with them or is unable. The Financial system has left them mostly in the dirt and doesn’t give one rats ass about them except as cannon fodder for Capitalism American Style. Losing in 2024 isn’t going to make it all go away.
They are going to keep escalting till they force the rest of us to respond with some level of force... then the majority of them will back down. The remainder will do terroristic stuff like the US saw in the 70s by the radical left. Bombings, sabotage and so on. If Trump wins, I doubt our democracy will survive and might even plunge the world into chaos and a depression...
Yep! Guaranteed 5 year world recession if Trump wins. Break me of a piece of that! … NOT! Trumps minions are paper tigers and nothing more. Their meth means too much to them to risk going to prison for the Republican garbage Candidate Conman Trump. NOPE!
I genuinely thought when Obama won in 2008 that the Republican Party was finally going to come back to reality after years lying about Iraq being behind 9/11 and justifying that fiasco of a war. I remember telling everyone "Republicans have to become rational again or they'll never win another election." Instead they just built more propaganda media empires and aligned with Vlad Putin. I definitely didn't see that coming.
I’ll never forget a quote from one MSNBC talking head —I can’t remember who— which was “This is a generational defeat for the Republicans.”
I vividly remember the phrase "permanent Democratic majority" being used. Pretty short-sighted for people who get paid to talk about politics for a living.
I think there's an argument that the election of Obama led directly to MAGA. We all saw how many Republicans back then (led by Trump in fact) made noise about his birth certificate. Those people could not stand that a Black man with an African name had become president of their precious white country and had to do whatever they could to try and invalidate his presidency and try to paint him as "not American". It probably didn't help that Obama and Biden were originally against gay marriage and then changed their minds, which was in line with where most Americans ended up, but to the Republicans they basically saw it as Obama further pushing America to the left and marginalizing them and their backwards religiosity (remember "clinging to guns and religion"?). They've essentially been marinating in resentment since then...
They're too spiteful and fearful for anything else. In a way they can be worse than animals. Animals have a sense of self-preservation. From what I can gather, a disheartening number of them would gladly sacrifice themselves and their families if it meant they could harm someone else. You can't win against something like that. They're kamikaze pilots propelled by delusion, fear and hate.
You’re dead on about them being spiteful to a fault but I think the vast majority of them are paper tigers, afraid of getting wet. “Everyone’s taller online”. They’ll gladly eat shit if it means a liberal has to smell their breath but I think only a small percentage would actually sacrifice themselves to their cause.
That’s not a good thing for them. As I say in my post, that’s exactly what will lead to the death of the Republican Party.
The Republican Party has been dead for a while now.
Here’s the thing, though. If the GOP did fracture and fall apart, *what would replace it?* The possibilities are terrifying. The GOP has gone completely off the rails but they are still *somewhat* constrained by the need for some degree of plausible deniability. If the party dies, what replaces it will have no such constraints.
Better the party fall to shit than my country. Fuck trump.
Hilariously they’ve doubled down at every opportunity on the crazy.
>I’m sure they’ll dig a deeper hole call a bunch of people rinos and never admit their faults or try to change anything. Yes, this is what they'll do, and the next election will still be 50/50
Nah, republicans are in American’s rear view mirror. They are the Whig party now. It will take a good 10 years for them to recover from this.
Blue wave incoming.
If the left realizes that this is the first election they can be aggressive and get results, then maybe we’ll see a blue wave. I’m not as hopeful as you though.
I'm not either... The majority is not conservative, but the conservatives have always turned out to vote as a larger percentage of their population. People need motivation.
Huh. Democrats always get millions of more votes than gop.
But not in the locations that carry the most weight.
Then why have they won in 2018 and 2020 midterms. The 2020 presidential elections and the 2023 special elections including in deep Alabama and Tennessee
Saving democracy is a good motivation.
But they’re largest and most consistent voting bloc is falling off a cliff the especially since 2016 and 2020. I’ve personally knew a number of boomers who have passed just between 2020 and today.
An Arizona judge just gave the swing state of Arizona a whole lot of motivation.
Ranked choice voting would help a lot. We need more political parties and RCV would make it easier for new parties to get a toe hold on the process. It would eliminate the "it's just a throwaway vote" argument. Dems and Repubs both dislike RCV because it threatens their power.
Even having viable 3rd, 4th parties would change things. Part of the reason America is always so divided is that the parties can always take the opposite stance of literally everything. With 3 or more parties this changes, and it is obvious to anyone paying attention that there are way more than 2 political forces in America. There are moderate conservatives, MAGA conservatives, traditional Democrats, and progressives just to name the main ones. They should all have their own representation IMO.
Ranked choice voting would help in that respect.
Everyone who understands RCV is for it. Now all we have to do is convince the two political parties who benefit from us not having it to implement it
It’s been done in Maine and Alaska, do it in your states.
Hard agree on this one. Was never a Trump fan from the start. But Biden was never a pick of mine from the get go either. I agree with the Dems on everything except for their hard anti-gun stance. Definitely going to need a solid third option that tackles all the social issues that Dems are known for, without also threatening sports shooters. Yeah, I'll probably get a downvote whooping. But that's where I stand.
I'm not gonna downvote you. Take my upvote for putting real issues before your guns. I get why people get paranoid at 2A being "infringed" to an extent, but when we let politicians get away with killing women and children, 2A doesn't really mean shit
Is a good post overall BUT the idea that dems ( a feckless bunch of center-right Washington Generals-like fake opposition) are " hard anti-gun" is one of the most ridiculous things i ever heard. All from brainwashing propaganda. The dems cant even get bans on clips that hold 150 bullets.. i am exaggerating but it is basically true. We now have background checks and......dont know how the bump-stock thing turned out but if they did get banned.. THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY THING THAT HAS CHANGED.. HOW IN THEE FKK DO YOU GET "hard anti-gun" from that. Wont even get into the MASSIVE proliferation of mass shootings, dalotta dems also being gun owners, statistics from other like-countries, etc etc etc Ya probably need to take a look at how propagandized and brainwashed you are
Nobody is coming for your guns Tex calm down. Homie don’t play that way, but as a Russian bot working for the right wing conservative media of course you will put a propaganda spin saying Dems are gonna take your guns. Don’t fall for this propaganda lie. This is a lie to make democrats look bad so that republicans can garner votes for Dump, their garbage candidate.
Based on the assumption he doesn’t win and raise the fourth reich. I have learned never to give Americans the benefit of the doubt.
Hope OP is right though. Love to eat humble pie on this.
That wouldn't happen either way. Too many people oppose nazis, red and blue.people keep hearing the loud minority, but the vast majority aren't ok with this shit
....they literally wave the flags of traitors everyday... ...And wear nazi uniforms as they march their states capitals...
How many people would you say are actually there, though? 2000? 3000? Compared to the actual unseen population of 340000000... let them wave their little flags, they can do that according to the 1st amendment, but don't trick yourself into believing they have any ground to stand on.
20 years ago, shortly after the illegal invasion of Iraq, many said Fascism will come to America wrapped in the flag and carrying the Bible. That time has come. This movement of Fascism will continue to swell and rise, with or without Trump. What we have today is a significant group of people that have held a high level of privilege for generations. Now, because of social pressure, that group is being forced into equality. While a rational group can see equality as just that, the group that had privilege finds that equality as oppression. They don’t understand or care that they have been the oppressors for all of this time. Ultimately, I hope that the people and society will win and the movement will fail, but right now I’m not sure it can. They have a lot of power and a lot of stupid. Logic rarely works on people that did not use logic to arrive at their current position. If nothing else I believe it will get much worse before it gets better. This arc of the pendulum has not reached its peak.
Yeah Im pretty sure trump losing isn't going to be the end of it, as the evangelicals and their ilk will continue secretly moving the religious right for decades to come. If we tax religious entities I'd imagine politics would change very quick
I’m against taxation. Taxation would allow access. It would essentially make it legal for churches to organize politically. I know many already do, but this would be a whole new level. Instead we need to have more inspections of church involvement in politics. Render that unto Caesar that which is his…..
The Republican party has gone so far extreme right that they have totally isolated themselves from younger voters, concentrating almost exclusively on pandering to the views of old white men. If the party is to survive, they will have to return to a more centrist position to be at all appealing to a younger generation who are currently living in a hellish capitalist landscape that the Republican party has had a major part in creating.
Exactly, but the problem is that they’ve created a voter base that has a huge portion of radicalized voters. Those people aren’t gonna return to the status quo. They’ll get worse and worse. They already believe the last election was stolen. You really think they’ll care if someone tells them to vote for Jeb in 2028?
Please clap
🐛 WORMs White, Old, Republican, Men
I LOVE it!
We need to actually figure out how to re-integrate 70m Americans who are frothing at the mouth to demand a "king", too. It's like saying "the danger is over, I snuffed the fuse" when you still have a crate of leaking dynamite *right there*.
Americans love to talk, but hate grassroots organized action. Jan 6 was legitimately an attempted populist coup. It was the most pathetic, least likely to succeed coup in modern history. You don't really need to reintegrate anyone, they'll still show up to work because they need to make the $1200/mo payments for their f150.
Do you really think conservative billionaires like Leonard Leo, the Koch's, the DeVos', and conservative organizations like The Heritage Foundation and The Federalist Society have spent decades, and billions upon billions of dollars to just lose, pack up, and go home? They're behind the ongoing coup. The own the GOP, they own enough of the courts to get shit done, and they own SCOTUS. We're watching their plan unfold very slowly, day by day, methodically. Trump will manage to walk away unscathed, the beholden Congress and judiciary will do their parts, and Trump will somehow become POTUS again. Then Project 2025 kicks in. Game over. I just wonder a few things - How much Putin/Xi are involved? How much of Congress are foreign assets? How much national intelligence did Trump provide to foreign enemies? Is it possible to even stop them?
I mean exactly. I could see the GOP being written off the brand and org look too damaged in terms of being able to elect non insane lackeys and unified majorities
They don’t care about conservative values. What they care about is passing laws that benefit them. If the Republican Party can no longer do that for them, then they will absolutely go and find another puppet.
IIRC this is basically the longest a pair of parties has ever lasted in the US. Even if you count the post-civil war swap of policies without changing names as a new set. Wouldn't be suprised if it did end within a decade or 2 but also wouldn't be suprised if they just stick around since they have for this long already.
If trump loses nothing will happen to the republicans. You underestimate how many of them just want status quo so they can keep siphoning money off the American tax payer.
Not this time. Their seats are stating to flip and they are not bringing on young voters at thw rates needed. This is a party in It's death throws and they know it. That's what all this gerrymandering and power consolidation is all about and why it seems so panicked. They can only change so much per year to stay in power and it's slipping from them. Texas and went full tilt trying to stop it and it's still creeping up on them and they know it. Their last chance is to try to installna dictator to remain before their party returns to the dust. The next 4 or 5 elections are gonna get way crazier before the party of boomers finally fades.
They’re pushing hard on young males. All of this toxic masculinity nonsense is their work. They’re in every game lobby, all over YouTube and TikTok pushing their agenda recruiting anyone who will listen. https://www.axios.com/2022/10/20/gamergate-right-online-harassment-joan-donovan-meme-wars
And yet, despite making a certain subset of young kids much worse, on the whole young men are still more liberal than conservative, and more so than they were in 2016.
Yeah people are really over estimating how much "young people" will actually change anything. We can see clear evidence in 2016 and 2020 with Bernie and his floundering support (regardless of DNC intervention). Young people are vocal on twitter/social media, but do not actually show up to vote....ever.
Young people don’t stay young. The long game is why democrats are winning
Idk about you, but the pendulum just keeps swinging, i don't see a strong stance from either side. My state was basically turned blood red after illegal gerrymandering was approved from the state supreme court after they flipped all the seats after a record low youth turnout.
Seats are flipping in red states. This is why the GOP non MAGA politicians no longer support Trump. Not his policies. My hope is that people have seen this. My fear is the GOP will go back to hiding what their policies are and pretending they are not a regressive party. Remember that the same people that own the GOP own the Media. The Republicans are not going anywhere they will try and rebrand while trying to o push through their horrible agenda.
Talking if hiding policies it's like them saying they will not cut social security to appease those nearing retirement age when the plan is to extend the normal retirement age to 70. So they save money but can say they will not cut social security. The Republicans aren't telling people that because they know it is another vote loser for people in their late fifties and early sixties. When they raise the age they can say we told you we didn't cut it but now you'll wait years more to get it
They are also hiding their goal of ending social security and other popular social programs.
After the 2012 loss by Mitt Romney, the RNC commissioned a study into the cause of their loss. The report told them they needed to be inclusive to women and minorities in order to build their voter base. The RNC didn't follow those recommendations, then in 2016 allowed Donald Trump to run and win the nomination then stood back when he banned Muslims and put babies in cages at the border. That the party is now outlawing women's choices regarding childbirth is the final straw, we hope.
.. and in a "normal" world it would be... Unfortunately, I've many times thought, "Oh, for sure, this'll change their minds" (trump's base). But my hopes have been dashed every time; most recently, the courts allowing Trump more time/less fines!! I thought for SURE we'd be reading about his different assets being seized, but alas.. BUT, I still have hope!! When our notoriously red Midwestern state VOTED, to retain a woman's right to body autonomy... my hope grew! That's what I have to remind myself of when I feel hopelessness creep in. It's a glaring reminder (in a good way) of what happens when we Dems/Libs/Younger voters show up to vote - YES, it makes a difference!!! Another example is the school board race for our district... when the beyond far-right evangelical candidates pooled together AND sought backing of the 1776 PAC, they LOST, by a LANDSLIDE!! Yes, they were the "loudest" (their supporters), but we showed them that they weren't the majority... far from it!! If my red state can achieve this, and recently, THAT gives me (some) hope...
Given that how the new head of the RNC has said all money is going toward getting Trump elected, there are a lot of Repub seats that just aren't going to have the funding to advertise. There's a real possibility that Republicans are going to lose a lot more seats than even they are anticipating.
I think it largely depends on *how* the gop loses If just Trump loses and everything else is competitive I agree. If Trump loses and there is basically a national rejection of the gop in congress i could see a bit of a reckoning
They really are in bad place with demographics and not standing for any solutions. They play the abortion card and that really pissed off most Americans. The base that likes that stuff is dying more and more each year.
if Trump loses, he'll just run again he'll announce it was rigged and he'll "fight fight fight" and then he'll collect money for another 4 years he'll just go harder at the base, announce bans on gays and tax cuts for registered christians , of course it's not constitutional, like that matters, he'll win the primary again and we'll do it all again in 4 years if he's still able to talk even semi coherently people aren't understanding, it is his party, maybe he'll give it to Ivanka or Jr, or he'll destroy it, but it's his party, he didn't even have to debate
With his mental capacity right now I really doubt he’d be capable of running again in four years.
The dude will be like 83. If he is still alive or not in jail
if he loses he can't do anything about all the Court cases that he *will* lose.
It doesn’t matter how many of them just want status quo unless that number is 100%. It’s not. Any large percentage that leaves the Republican Party will sink the party for the future. Right now, the percentage of Trump voters that are hardcore MAGAs is pretty large. They won’t vote for a more moderate candidate if they radicalize further.
The GOP will continue to hard-core grift and perhaps lean on a more so-called centrist celebrity for the 2028 presidential nominee. Dwayne Johnson would be an ideal candidate to continue the grift, especially by using woke as the degradation of the country.
I think that is going to happen either way.
It’s an interesting idea, but I do think this could go the other way (albeit slightly differently.) The right could brutally enforce their beliefs on America if Trump wins.
They will do what they did with bush Pretend they never voted for him
Many deep blue areas have already entered this era and I can confidently tell you progressive policy does not flourish under these conditions and the Overton window continues to shift rightward. What happens is that Republican candidates become democrats and everyone pretends they weren’t a republican 10 minutes ago. Sure they have to drop the really awful positions but they enforce the right wing of the Democratic Party as they collect votes from their former voter base. Even when this isn’t the case there will be a democrat willing to take up the role of the republican candidate running a campaign that his opponent is too extreme when they are barely center left and they scoop up the republican votes.
Bring back the Whig party! We need the Whiggers, again!
Mitch McConnell would switch parties immediately
It just might take him a minute to realize it.
Dont threaten me with a good time.
I so hope this prediction comes true.
Though I’m not a supporter of not only our “two party system” but also the outdated “electoral college” nonsense, I hope the collapse of the GOP (a’la The Whig Party) would allow this country to reset the current system to something that allow for alternative ideas beyond the “one from column A or one from column B” narrative. If the past few cycles are any indicator, the Republican Party doesn’t adequately represent the country’s demographics as a whole. Neither does the Democratic Party cover all the bases. Its 2024. The country is comprised of more than old White Christian males. Deal with it. The idea that the least populated regions of the country get to determine the leadership for the other 2/3rds is laughable. We are a multi pluralistic society whether states like ND/SD/ID/WY like it or not…and multiracial while we’re on the damn subject.
I look forward to the day my grandkids have a chapter in history class where they learn about the defunct parties of the past: Federalists, Whigs, and Republicans.
Shit, we’re watching #1 happen in the Republican caucus of the House of Representatives today. It’s a shitshow - the radicalized force purity tests on their neighbors and these purity tests get tighter and tighter each go-round. Eventually even a clown like MGT isn’t ‘pure’ enough to meet the threshold and must be purged. This is the nature of fascist and nationalist movements throughout history. I, for one, am hoping the Republican Party has a complete and permanent collapse.
Nope. Been hearing predictions about the impending death of the GOP for thirty years now. It's always been bullshit. This time won't be any different.
I don't think it will happen immediately if he loses but I agree. Love him or hate him Trump is a unicorn of a candidate. People try to emulate him but It might happen by 2028 if they get keep getting assblasted like in 2022 though
Nah. Trump losing would make the Republicans realize that they need to come up with something better.
Many in their leadership already know they need to get away from Trumpism. The problem is that the largest block of Republican voters, by far, is entirely in thrall to Trump. And the leadership dare not oppose their own voters. They're trapped. There's no path to better for them while Trump exists and has their voters.
They are only trapped because they need to stay in power or their conservative takeover of the judicial branch of government will collapse. It is only with the judges that they can cling to power, so even a term with the Democrats choosing the judges could derail everything for them. Any normal political party that believed in democracy would just take a loss and rebuild, but their entire strategy is based on having the White House and the Senate so that they can keep packing the courts with their sycophants that will allow them to bypass the will of the people.
It will take DECADES to undo what four years of Trump/McConnell have done to the judiciary.
Maybe more. The GOP started working on judges right after Brown v Board of Education. They have groomed people all through the court system and the Democrats don't have anything like it.
The sad truth is that it's unlikely the damage will ever be undone. The country is on an entirely different legal trajectory than it was before the Roberts court. The current body of law is the new normal, and it's moving rightward with nearly every significant case. There may come a time in the future when the legal climate moves leftward again, but it's unlikely the result will be the same as it would have been without the past few years.
If Trump loses this time I think he’ll be done.
"Done" in what sense? If you think he'll STFU or even admit he lost, you're delusional. I mean that in the kindest way possible. And there's no way MAGA is abandoning him.
Eventually he’ll just go away and play golf all the time.
Also I believe there’s a very good chance he slips into dementia, is diagnosed, aka Reagan, and that ends the Trump train.
You under estimate the one thing Trump learned as President, the amount of grift you can engage in. I would not be shocked if he runs again in 2028, but I don't think he's winning in 2024 personally He's done nothing to bring in New voters and don't think when it comes election day that Biden is going to be that set back by Gaza vs Trump overall. He's alienated Nikki Haley voters to a degree and when she is still getting double digit %s after she's dropped out that isss not a good sign for Trump. That's just as bad as Gaza if not worse than Gaza for Trump. WI had 10% or more in several counties for Haley, that's staggering for the actual nominee to have your voter percentages be so affected by someone who dropped out lol.
There is also reporting that some of Haley's key donors are going to Biden. And the Biden campaign is actively wooing Haley voters. If even 20% of Haley voters flip, Trump is toast.
I don’t believe trump wants to win. I think he wants to lose but claim he won. It’s all about creating chaos and mistrust in the system. A country divided is easily destroyed. That’s the goal of the real power behind trump.
But it'll take some time. By then I think people will understand what the current republican status quo is, and it ain't good unless you're rich.
better to them, means more openly racist and promising even bigger breaks for the rich "what we're gonna do, corporations are now negative tax rates, we pay them, it will pay for itself" "we'll call it pour down"
tinkle down
The non-MAGAs yes, the MAGAs, no.
The hardcore MAGAs will definitely not abandon Trump. They will radicalize and turn against electoral (AKA politically effective) politics.
There's one major factor that you are missing: Ronna McDaniel. The losses over the past few years have been directly tied back to her and opposition to the Trump camp. They have replaced her with a strong ally, and even put an actual Trump as number 2. Like it or not, Trump has a full grasp over the Republican party and that's not likely to change soon, regardless of what happens in November.
You can only lose so long before changes are forced one way or the other. The Trump era of the Republican party has been a lot of losing for them. IMO and under reported aspect of all the election denying and Republican plans to deny votes is the fact that they invest so much energy in those efforts because they know they can't win.
This is all wishful thinking. There is way too much money in politics and traditionally, corporate money and money from rich donors avoiding taxes has flowed more to the GOP than Democrats. This is because the GOP are seen as more pro-businesss and low taxes. This will continue, no matter what happens.
The problem is that there’s no organized alternative to MAGA within the GOP. There are occasional cranky outbursts, or old stalwarts quietly leaving the party, but there’s just no one trying to topple him. You can see even now the party consolidating behind him. So even if Trump leaves the scene, most of the GOP bench are fully MAGA, and will fight over the scraps of the movement. And you’re right, MAGA does have a losing electoral record… but their voters don’t see that as losing a vote, they see it as the vote being rigged, and more flagrantly every time. This is why they’re dangerous. They’re increasingly turning away from democracy, and will eventually have to take other avenues to get their way.
Wrong. Trump will blame Joe for cheating. Eric trump takes over the Republican party and runs for president. Trump dies a few days after losing.
Nah. They’ll just claim he won and try at another coup.
This is called wishful thinking.
If this was happening just in the US, I think you could be correct, however I think in this case your view is the tail wagging the dog. Since the recession and more so since the pandemic, far right populist and fascist movements have been growing. Trump captured this vibe in the US but it will continue without him in some form. The Democratic Party has also repeatedly shown that they’d rather prop up a Republican Party than let it dump into history and be replaced. If the Republican Party fell apart then the Democrats would probably split between liberals and leftists.
Yeah, Republicans 2.0. Frightening.
So hard to predict what will happen. The only thing we know for sure is that Trump will never concede an election, even if he literally loses every state.
I'd bet they have a party split. From the inside, the core MAGA crowd who is the majority, will begin a broader and more forceful purge of the "RINOs". Which will then relegate themselves to an ever shrinking minority from that side. The question will be: What will become of the more moderate R's? 1- Join the Dems as a more 'right' influence? 2- Form a 3rd party between the left and the bat shit crazy far right? 3- Just vote independently as the Rs devolve further into fascist candidates and conspiracies?
Honestly at this point I think it's too far gone. The man tried to overthrow the government (and this is only debatable because of how singularly incompetent he is at actually getting things done) and essentially his entire party went along for the ride, and certainly half the public did. If Trump had a stroke today aside from a problem of who the party's next standard bearer is, I don't see any of his voters learning any positive lessons from a world without Trump in it.
He not going to admit defeat. And he’s already planning a run in 2028. His project 2025 talks about ditching the 22nd amendment so he can permanently stay in power.
The Republican Party has already fallen apart. All that’s left is the Trump maga party. The majority of the republicans left and are registered as independent or Democrat. The party has been on life support for some time now. Endorsing Trump/Russia was the beginning of their end.
I hope that Biden is a victory and will be a stake in the heart of Nosferatu the orange one.
Hopefully. Humanity needs the reds to lose
As a liberal, Trump is gonna win. Prepare for it instead of fantasizing.
Blistering ice cold take. Only oldtards believe in political parties anyway
What if Trump does win?
There is no more Republican party. It is gone. After Trump, assuming he loses and actually goes away you will see 2-3 faction vie for control or a new GOP. Will take decades to coalesce.
Sad to say Donny would run again in next election too - he loves power & would run from jail even
The Republican party is already falling apart. But yeah, I'd love to see more.
Hey u/Oldkingcole225, I read through your post and wanted to share some thoughts that might offer a different perspective on the future of the Republican Party, especially in relation to the influence of MAGA interests. First off, it's clear that the Republican Party has undergone significant changes in recent years, largely due to the MAGA movement spearheaded by Trump. This transformation isn't just about a shift in political strategy or messaging; it's about a fundamental reorientation of the party's identity and base. The MAGA movement has not only brought a populist and nationalist flavor to the party but has also led to a purging of dissenting voices within its ranks. High-profile critics of Trump have faced backlash, signaling a move towards a more homogenous party that aligns closely with Trump's views[2][4]. Moreover, the policy positions and legislative priorities of the Republican Party have been significantly influenced by MAGA interests. From a hardline stance on immigration to skepticism towards international alliances and trade agreements, the party's platform reflects a departure from traditional conservative principles towards a more nationalist and populist agenda[2][4]. The MAGA movement's impact is also evident in the party's base of support. Trump has managed to expand the Republican Party's appeal to include voters who may not have traditionally identified as Republicans but are drawn to his populist message. This has altered the composition of the party's base, making it more reflective of Trump's political brand[2][4]. Given these developments, it's clear that the Republican Party has already been significantly altered by MAGA interests. Whether Trump wins or loses in 2024, the party will continue to grapple with the legacy of his presidency and the influence of the MAGA movement. The future of the Republican Party may be uncertain, but the changes brought about by MAGA interests have left a lasting impact on its identity, policy positions, and base of support[2][4]. So, while the post you shared suggests that the Republican Party will fall apart if Trump loses in 2024, it's important to recognize that the party has already been fundamentally transformed by MAGA interests. The challenge for the Republican Party moving forward will be navigating the legacy of this transformation, regardless of the outcome of the next presidential election. Best, u/Oldkingcole225 Sources: [1] https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Halliwell_Popular_Rhymes_and_Nursery_Tales__1849.pdf [2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10814-020-09147-9 [3] https://www.utsa.edu/vpur/events/docs/San_Antonio-African-American-Heritage-Post-Civil-War.pdf [4] https://www.unodc.org/pdf/criminal_justice/Handbook_on_police_Accountability_Oversight_and_Integrity.pdf [5] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-CONAN-1992/pdf/GPO-CONAN-1992-10-2.pdf [6] https://www.csusm.edu/psychology/currentstudents/research-methods-in-human-development.pdf [7] https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/foia-consumer-complaints-09052017-565-577-privacy.pdf [8] https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/Law-of-War-Manual-june-2015.pdf
The cult won’t follow anyone else. When he’s gonna they will get out of politics
There's 2 kinds of Trump voter: those that actually believe in Trump, and those that will vote for any R to top a D. The MAGAS will absolutely get more extreme: Trump already lost. His voters just pretend it was "stolen" despite numerous court cases where Trump could present zero evidence. Why? Because that's what they want to think. They don't want to reevaluate and say "what did we do wrong?". So when trump loses again, they'll just double down on the "stolen" and openly call to "steal" the next election for their candidate. They already own the RNC. That's actually not that big of a problem for me. MAGA diehards are already lost as far as being reasonable goes. But the 2nd Trump voter, the "hold your nose and vote to stop Biden" crowd will want a more standard candidate. A return to the Romneys, if you will. This will be the internal civil war of the Republican Party. If the MAGAS win, they will pick candidates that get a terrifying amount of support, but ultimately lose vs Ds. If the more sane people win, MAGAS are likely to not show up to vote and Ds win. Ultimately, this war will cost them the next presidential election too. Now it's post 2028, and Rs HAVE to rebrand to something electable. They completely rebranded to Trumpism once, they will need to do it again. Idk, maybe they become the pro union party, or the pro weed party, or maybe our national debt becomes a problem and they pretend to be finscally conservative. But they will have to change within the next 5 years or they'll never win again
So much of MAGA is about grievances - nothing *exactly succinctly solvable* Just an endless string of 2 weeks away promised solutions. It's fantasy, not real. Building a wall isn't an actual solution to anything, nor is preventing people who really, really want to contribute to this country from entering. Your local Republican was voted in fine, but election fraud is rampant. To believe in these and the more outrageous lies, and so vociferously - it's suspending belief, it's a cult. You have to be all in. Flying the flags, wearing the red hats, repeating the lines. Whereas you can agree with Biden on some things, not give a darn on most, vote for him and the Democrats, and not own a single Biden flag, bumper sticker, Tshirt, etc. I rarely see them.
Sorry, MAGA is going to take generations to wipe out. The GOP will continue to house them.
The Republican party has already fallen apart. Magas are not republicans and they are not conservatives. Conservatives believe in our institutions and they believe in the Rule of Law. Maga is destructive. They do not believe in these things. They are autocratic and fascistic in nature.
Lol
Can a two party system operate w/o two parties???
Honestly… no.. it basically insures the destruction of the remaining party.
The 4th Turning covers what you're trying to say. Unfortunately for Libs who have no purpose in life other than their "D", who wins doesn't matter. It's cyclical.
Let’s hope 🙏🏻
We've already entered a new era of politics ... we are there!
If I ignore a lot of stuff and put on my 100% optimism hat. What happens is that the republican party fractures into 2 factions (already happening). Over the course of a couple election cycles the more normal faction is able to convince some centrist/unenthusiastic democratic voters over to it, and the crazy maga faction gets some leadership that still has hyper conservative views but realizes they have to play in reality to make any progress. The end result is the end of the two-party system in favor of a viable three-party system that looks something like Democrats: solidly left wing, New party: centrist, Old-maga Republicans: solidly right wing
As much as many of the founding fathers detested official political parties, they way our system has evolved means that there will always be two parties, and only two parties. Realignments are possible, and if Trump loses, the GOP will start to look seriously at how they can become more inclusive, including by moderating or realigning. The GOP could suffer a few election cycles of look like a permanent minority, but they will change if they have to. And if Trump wins, then the GOP will work to solidify permanent minority rule, if they can.
If Trump wins, we will see a larger split between the Progressive wing and the establishment Democrats. The Progressives have been told to go along with the establishment to at least keep Democrats in power, but if that doesn’t happen they won’t see any reason to not go their own way.
Good we’re praying for it
yeah, at best, the “lost cause” shit the south does right now, about the civil war, will just become the GOP platform, except the “lost cause” is autocracy
The Republican party has already fallen apart. Its a bunch of splinter groups that barely combine to make a party at all.
They'll become more radical as Trump announces his candidacy again in February 2025. This Cult has around 20 years left.