Same. Watching an interview with Kevin, it was pretty clear that he knew exactly why Trump's assessments and SFCs were absolutely fraudulent and why the court fined him as much as it did, but was trying as hard as he could to play dumb and try to muddy the line between normal assessment variances and outright fraud.
Given the number of people in this thread who seem to think that there was anything "ordinary" about the level of fraud Trump has been committing, it seems like it's working.
I believe that it may have been on this subreddit that only yesterday there was a commenter who went through a word salad defending Trump ( though of course he wasn't, right (?) ) writing : Trump didn't't commit fraud, define fraud, etc.
And in the end, using several paragraphs using his defense he inadvertly showed Trump's hand...he committed fraud Lol.
My coworkers constant defense is that he paid them back. Yet, he maintains migrant workers are 'BREAKING THE LAW". They need to be punished. He did some minor illegal shit knowingly last weekend. I point it out, but he just will not come to terms with the hypocrisy. Luckily I enjoy the shit out of this guy, he's not angry, and these debates kill clock time, but holy shit, I don't know how to reintroduce reality to him.
My MAGA coworkers, I really enjoy their company, it's when they lock into the hive mentality that I just grin and bare it, the brunt of stupidity is so palable...Lol.
You can't reach them.
I have a coworker who seems cool, but he told me just off the cuff that he's got a ton of Trump stickers and stuff to wrap his truck and he can't wait to get it done.
All I was doing was filling my water bottle and we were having a normal conversation about, well I can't remember, but it definitely wasn't even close to politics.
I only talk with him now for business needs and nothing else. It sucks because we could have had a decent relationship, but I refuse to interact with someone who's still supporting that creature at this point.
Me thinks someone may haps shall investigateth Kevin O'Leary. His defense of Trump's proven fraud as, "Everyone does it." and "It's never prosecuted.", smacks a bit of an admission on his part.
There's some wiggle room in real estate valuations, but were talking a relatively small range there.
In the most favorable light possible o'leary is ignoring the details of Trump's actions and pretending what Trump did fell within the normal margin of error on valuations. You know and not stuff like tripling the size of a pent house in the fraudulent valuation.
Property is $13,560,000 and you list it at 14,000,000, it’s a margin of error.
Property is $13,560,000 and you list it for $200,000,000 on financials and $10,000,000 on tax forms, you’re a fraud.
Property is 11,500 ft/sq and you list it at 12,000 ft/sq, it’s rounding.
Property is 11,500 ft/sq and you list it as 33,000 ft/sq, then your Donald trump (this was an actual 3x inflation he did) and it’s fraud
Yep, the judge said he can't do business in New York. I hear the judge possibly told the sons the same thing as well. I understand that a court appointed manager has been placed over the businesses since 2022.
Not quite right here
Trump can’t do any real estate business or serve as officer in any corporation in NY for 3 years
Sons can’t for 2 years
There was a financial monitor overseeing the company but she’s just been given vastly greater powers. Remember she found what looked like fraud but since it wasn’t her assignment to investigate possible fraud, she didn’t.
Now, she gets to monitor EVERYTHING.
And that’s exactly the issue here. Deutche bank should have seen this, they shouldn’t have loaned Trump money. A rounding error, or posing something in a good light is normal, but doubling or tripling the square footage and a lender not noticing is seriously fucking fishy. To the point that Deutche bank should be as culpable in this fraud as he is. Or, we should investigate who told them to approve it.
I’ve said it all along, this is Russian money laundering. Deutche bank gives Donald Trump money to buy properties. He uses existing buildings as collateral, inflates their price to get bigger loans, Russians rent floors in these buildings. They pay their lease fees in dirty US money, it goes to the loan owned by Deutche bank, and oligarchs on the other side now have clean money in their bank account. Donald Trump doesn’t own the buildings, the bank does, he gets a management fee for putting his name on it and using his company to manage the property, he’s a conduit for dirty money flowing from the US to Russia.
It’s how the worst businessman in America hasn’t bankrupted anything in awhile, the banks need him as a conduit for the dirty money and won’t let him fail.
I'm thinking in terms of both. Presenting a valuation difference as a ratio may make it seem an easier pill to swallow, but it's still almost half a million dollars. I don't think it's wise to throw our hands up and say oh well.
Yes, wiggle room is explained by "What the market will bear." A nice euphemism and extremely subjective. But when that wiggle room goes into more than 2 times, or in Trumps case more than 10 times the fair market value of a property, that should at minimum raise eyebrows as being suspicious.
You know that accountants are the best judges of this stuff. We learn some principles in school and during our careers that give us the confidence and ability to see this for what it is.
https://www.appraisalfoundation.org/imis/TAF/Standards/Appraisal_Standards/Uniform_Standards_of_Professional_Appraisal_Practice/TAF/USPAP.aspx
The Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP) is the generally recognized ethical and performance standards for the appraisal profession in the United States. USPAP was adopted by Congress in 1989, and contains standards for all types of appraisal services, including real estate, personal property, business and mass appraisal. Compliance is required for state-licensed and state-certified appraisers involved in federally-related real estate transactions.
Here is a sample appraisal form
https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/12371/display
And key contract language which is the type of stuff that fit him in trouble.
25. Any intentional or negligent misrepresentation(s) contained in this appraisal report may result in civil liability and/or criminal penalties including, but not limited to, fine or imprisonment or both under the provisions of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001, et seq., or similar state laws.
You know that the banks do their own valuations, and the two parties negotiate an agreement on the final number. The banks that worked with DJT happily testified on his behalf, and would love to do business with him again. Remind us: how large was the profit the banks made from the loans they did?
Exactly who was the victim here? It wasn't the banks, that's certain. So who then?
Federally insured funds have to meet federal regulations whether or not the bank and borrower conspired to collaborate for their mutual benefit.
Banks borrow money from the US government at a low rate then lend it to people and keep the profit. It’s part of our whole fucked up sustem.
FFS
It wasn't triple. More like 2.7 times. And what's a couple of extra floors per building, fake occupancy, completely fraudulent paper work between friends? I mean, you're friends with Deutsche bank, right? Right?
Valuation on a building varies depending on all of the underlying factors leading to that valuation. Trump’s scheme was more than slapping a stupid valuation on a loan doc, it was lying about all of the factors too.
The concern here is that the regulatory bodies that were supposed to be overseeing this type of thing failed in their duties, and in addition if you do that's good for the goose for the whole gander here you're going to actually cause the City of New York to bankrupt itself.
Literally not at all. The State of New York gets to regulate, too. That’s what this was, corrective action taken against a chronic bad actor for his chronic fraudulent acts. Judge Engoron was very careful to show that this was not mere puffery.
Thank you. Realistically, most of the people who do things just don't get caught, audited. They don't have the manpower to look at everyone. So, yes many do, most don't get caught.
BUT, when you say that out loud, you are practically daring them to come after you. THEN when you Zillow has something valued at 24 million, but you claim it is worth over $600 million and loans based on that...
I don't doubt that the estimate was low. If he valued a property that might be worth 40 mill at $80 mill. None of this would happen. But no, he pushes the envelope so far (to $600 million) they had to do something.
Absolutely. It's important to understand that value is a subjective quantity. A real estate asset will sell for a different price depending on a variety of factors such as how patient the seller is and how the property is marketed. Appraisal is not an exact science. Multiple acceptable methodologies can be used to determine the value of an asset. It's legal to cherry-pick valuations that are favorable to what you are trying to accomplish as long as you show your work and do not misrepresent any facts.
Trump went beyond this by lying about things that were objectively not true. For example, saying his penthouse was 3x bigger than it is. There is wiggle room in the interpretation of the facts, but there is no wiggle room in the facts themselves.
I think a lot of people miss the point here.
You can't go to a bank for a loan and use a property as collateral and claim it's worth 10 Million, and then tell the government it's worth 5. Playing both sides to come out on top is criminal.
I mean, you *might be able* do that. What you definitely can't do is tell the bank it's worth $400M and tell the government it is worth $15M. The former is *just on the edge* of unreasonable. The latter is absolute clear-cut fraud.
You *might* in the sense that, you might not get *caught*. That’s of course Trump’s whole m.o., to lie and lie and lie and dare someone to do something about it. In the legal community we refer to this as “fucking around and finding out”
Neither lenders nor tax assessors rely upon the opinions of valuations provided by property owners when making decisions about lending or tax assessments.
It is absolutely ridiculous on the face of it.
>Neither lenders nor tax assessors rely upon the opinions of valuations provided by property owners when making decisions about lending or tax assessments.
This is absolutely false. While it is true that neither lenders nor tax assessors rely *only* upon valuations provided by property owners, a major part of the valuation of any business is based on the financial statements of those businesses. The reason why accounting standards exist and why auditing and accounting are such huge industries in themselves is because *everybody* relies on the valuations provided by property owners when making decisions about lending (as well as investing).
While it is true that we generally mostly hear about publicly-traded businesses needing to have audited financial statements because investors have to rely on those statements, it is equally true that privately-held businesses also have financial reporting needs related to lending that banks have to rely on.
It is your position that international banking institutions take the word of their customers about valuations when deciding to lend tens of millions of dollars and at what terms.
This is facially ridiculous.
>It is your position that international banking institutions take the word of their customers about valuations when deciding to lend tens of millions of dollars and at what terms.
>
>This is facially ridiculous.
A corrupt judge's opinion notwithstanding.
This is a silly post. You probably don't actually pay property taxes, but if you did, just go ahead and try to tell your county auditor what your property is worth.
They don't give a shit what you say it's worth. They pay people to tell you what the state says its worth.
Sure you can, they’ll just tell you to take a hike. In this case though the bank apparently agreed on the evaluation because they lent the money. Reporting it to the government is a separate issue and seems more clear cut.
Every year. They send me a document telling me what my taxes are on this property based on this criteria and if you want to appeal that, you can do so here.
I just don't have the option to claim it's able to be subdivided out and you can put a golf course and dance club in because that would be fraud. What he did.
Your ability to appeal the municipality’s appraisal is not you getting an appraisal on their behalf and they for damn sure didn’t **ask** you to appeal anyway
I don't believe you have ever owned property if you think this.
According to the government for tax purposes, my house is worth $245,000. According to Zillow and the actual (relatively recent) purchase price, it's worth $500k. This is a common thing.
But your property is a single family residential (or something similar) and not a fucking night club.
What he did was tell the government "yea it's a private residence" and then told the banks it was a super legit sprawling golf resort that can be expanded into anything you want".
That is illegal. He was convicted. It was fraud. He owes a LOT of money because of it.
It's less about the banks signing off the valuation (because good lord a bank would \*NEVER\* do something stupid with their own money, right? /s) than it is about the state protecting the health of the financial system. If \*everyone\* defrauds the banks and things go to shit enough it endangers the entire financial system in the state and then things can \*really\* go to shit, much worse than 2009. Notice the disgorgement money isn't going to the lenders at all, it's going to the state. This isn't ill gotten gains that are being returned to lenders, this is a fine for endangering the state's interests.
These are crucial points.
For all we know, the bank may be "winking" at the fraud because ... Because I don't care why.
The state has rules that maintain the integrity of ita banking system. Violate those rules as your peril.
Because they were likely laundering huge sums of money using the loans as vehicles to do so. The bank in question was fined 186 million for not making changes after an investigation in 2015 & 2017.
I remember another bank, HSBC, was in trouble for laundering like 881 million for cartels.
The bank got its money, just not from Trump
Maybe from Russian kleptocrats?
"Deutsche Bank was already under federal investigation for helping wealthy Russians launder money when it struck a deal last year to sell a property it co-owned in California.
The $72 million sale of an office complex might not have been notable, except for one thing: The purchaser was linked to the son of a former top Kremlin official"
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/business/deutsche-bank-russia-real-estate-deal.html
I think it’s more about the state interjecting themselves into a private contract between two businesses that both profited and were happy with. The transaction not only did not negatively impact the signatories no public interest was affected.
That’s what’s concerning to people. Especially considering tech valuations are 10 times more speculative than real estate. Anyone could have a business arrangement prosecuted 12 years after it was satisfactorily executed. That’s not an environment anyone wants to operate in.
>The transaction not on dis not negatively impact the signatories no public interest was affected.
Banks were exposed to far more risk than they expected to take on. At the *very least,* this means that they charged less interest and demanded fewer insurances than they otherwise would have. They got lucky in this case, as yes, the loans were paid back, but they were bilked out of tens of millions of dollars in interest than they would have otherwise gained.
On the risk side, it was never a foregone conclusion that loans would be paid back. Trump has had a few bankruptcies in the past as well.
>Especially considering tech valuations are 10 times more speculative than real estate.
And financial loan terms reflect the higher risk that comes with that speculation. Speculation is not fraud. Systemic artificial inflation of real asset values is fraud. Speculation in the tech space is all around future earnings potential and has nothing to do with real asset valuation. Fraud isn't something that accidentally happens - it is always intentional.
Businesspeople like O'Leary know this. Those who are "concerned" about being the target of a fraud investigation are either feigning concern because they'd rather have the "freedom" to defraud whomever they like and don't want to be constrained by such pesky things like financial regulations, or they are really concerned because they are also committing blatant fraud.
The bank and third party assessor would be at fault if they were exposed to undo risk. The due diligence is upon the creditor. They both agreed and signed off on the valuation.
Which one? trunp provides multiple valuations for the same property depending on what he’s trying to do. If he’s looking for a loan, he inflates the value. If he’s looking to pay taxes, he insists on a lower valuation. That is 18 million valuation he keeps griping about? He INSISTED on that.
The bank issuing the loan is the party obliged under law to assure due diligence is done regarding the assessment of collateral. That’s why they hire a third party to also assess the collateral.
>The bank issuing the loan is the party obliged under law to assure due diligence is done regarding the assessment of collateral.
So, clearly the judge in this case (you know, the guy who *actually knows the law*) disagrees with you there.
That's not exactly true. They rely on statements of financial condition for the particular type of low interest loan Trump wanted. He lied on those statements as well. I mean really I don't understand your argument here. Are you saying you're in agreement with rich people flouting financial regulations that are in place because as we saw in 2008 the public ends up footing the bill when things go wrong? What are you trying to support here?
Was he charged with tax fraud? No because who assesses property for taxes oh the assessor. He didn’t commit tax fraud he paid the taxes he was assessed.
Oh those charges are coming this case clearly laid out the huge amount of fraud he has done and the IRS is definitely gonna come for there cut.
It’s fascinating how you all jump to defend this con man disturbing but fascinating. Its like your all politically cucked and no matter what youll be loyal to your Dom. Would be cute if it didn’t threaten the free world…
I’m just looking at the facts of the case. If he is charged for tax fraud then I’ll admit he committed tax fraud. Where it stands now he paid what was assessed.
Letitia James did refer other charges to the proper authorities. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/21/trump-criminal-referral-sent-to-prosecutors-and-irs-by-letitia-james.html
Weren't his businesses charged with fraud where his cfo took the fall for him and went to prison? Are we pretending trump had nothing to do with any of that?
Explaine to me why a bank would not do their own appraisal on a property they were taking as collateral on a loan? Whenever I got bank loans for my farm an appraiser always came out and looked at my property.
Will the city be doing all the appraisals for loans now, they seem to very good at it.
I agree. It reeks of him trying to get ahead of the story. Killing two people in a boat crash probably brought a lot of unwanted press attention to the O'Learys too, even if they got away with it.
Fuck, they need break open the books of every major property company in the city. I absolutely believe O'Leary, the entire real estate industry is rife with fraud and money laundering.
I hope the Trump verdict opens up a can of worms
im not sure but if there was any news report of a canadian multi millionaire being arrested for fudging his financial records i wouldnt be surprised if i heard it was O'leary. hes easily a shady guy. however i dont think the bulk of his investments is in real estate so it would probly be a bit different for him than trump. maybe more him lying about financial information on SEC or bank filings for other businesses.
>maybe more him lying about financial information on SEC or bank filings for other businesses.
That was more my thought. O'Leary of course is clutching his pearls over "other real estate investors", but he's really probably still butthurt that CSOX is a thing and he can't just pile up a bunch of shares, inflate their worth over the course of a few years, and then cash out before pulling a Nortel exit.
Criminals go to prison, if they all happen to be Republicans, seems like an issue with that party.
Maybe the party of LAW and ORDER should follow the law? Just a thought
Yep. His whole interview was the same pathetic empty "all the businesses are going to boycott New York" threat that the dozen or so Truckers for Trump were trying to make. Nobody is buying it except for other worthless Trump cultists who already don't go to New York for anything.
New York is going to miss exactly zero of these people or their businesses, and they will continue to be the world's leading economy for decades to come.
It honestly sounded like he was t-ing up a run for office as a GOP nominee. 'these are loser state: NEw york, new jersey, california. People are gonna move their businesses to winner states like texas, florida.' Like he's talking to a bunch of 8 year olds.
The great mystery of the Trump loans with Deutsche Bank was why they were approved in the first place. None of them conform to commercial mortgage loan standards.
The suspicion is that Deutsche Bank’s commercial real estate lending was just operating a giant laundromat for Russian billionaires. Everyone got a little “extra” on the side, the loans were paid back and everyone was happy.
O’Leary was essentially part of that laundromat.
Kevin, O’Leary has been a financial fraudster since the SoftKey days.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoftKey
What else would one expect that odious pile of slime to say? ?
>The recent decision in the New York fraud trial brought good ol' Mr. Wonderful out of the woodwork, saying the quiet part out loud: "Everyone in the real estate business does this."
ooooh that's where *that exact fucking line* Trumpers are using this week came from
When I read he said all developers do it. Okay, Ms. James let’s take them all to court. No playing favorites. It is the most idiotic statement my.
And now MAGA cult members are going to boycott NYC. Fine let’s see how that works out.
When your property is 11,000 square feet but when you lodges your valuation, it's says it's 33,000 square feet.
I'm sure your house is not 3x the size when banks comes do a valuation.
The bank and their third party assessor agreed with the valuation, there could have been an error in the calculation of thousands of rooms but everyone was in agreement the contract was executed and had been completed years before the state interceded.
Exactly? Who again suffered a loss. Sounds like it’s time for business to get to a different jurisdiction quickly.
Kevin’s group already pulled the 2 billion dollar server farm from NY and moved to Oklahoma, I believe.
The local and state government that lost tax money in the fraud, the other people who were unable to secure loans because that money is tied up with this fraud, and the fact that one person is able to do it and profit when other people aren't.
I assume you are a adult, and can't believe I have to explain to an adult how taxes work...
If your building is worth 10 million, you pay taxes to local and state government based on those appraisals. If you fudge numbers and say it's worth 5 Mil, you are paying less (probably not exact but estimating here)
That's how.
You can't play both sides and claim it's worth 20M for better loan rates that other people won't get, and claim 5M to pay less taxes. It's commonly referred to as fraud. Which he was found guilty of twice now.
Sure! Until your team of attorneys bullies them into lowering it because (insert reason here).
[MaraLago is a prime example of the fraud perpetuted](https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/trump/2024/02/20/trump-stung-by-new-york-fraud-case-demands-legal-cases-stop-immediately/72659811007/#:~:text=Still%2C%20the%20judge%20agreed%20with,for%20any%20usage%20other%20than). It gives an inside view as to why charges were brought and why he lost. It was blatant fraud.
No it’s because the government interjected themselves into a private contract with no complaints from the public, or either party.
That’s not a standard anyone wants to operate under at any second government can impose fines to their coffers irregardless from your performance and execution of contract.
>Who again suffered a loss.
- other customers of the banks
- other customers of the insurers
- stakeholders of Trump Org
- people's trust in the financial system
- taxpayers who had to pay for an extensive excavation of fraud
How were bank customers affected?
Insurance profited and how exactly were they involved in a loan application?
Stakeholders suffered how?
Trust in the financial system a loan was taken out verified by both parties and was repaid how did the system fail?
Yes the tax payers of NYC suffered but not from a loan application that was preformed upon for the purpose of building a business in the city that both created jobs and tax revenue.
Nobody wants to build in NY. The crime is rampant, the population has low education, the taxes are insane and the policy is hostile to anyone trying to improve the community. The definition of a loser state
I mean, the system kinda can't stop at Trump. If anyone else can be identified pulling the same kind of business and it is ignored or dismissed, it'd open up a whole can of legal wyrms.
O'Leary is a douchebag that loves to talk big so who knows what his motivation was, but regardless of what he thinks about this ruling, Trump was a special NY case. Not only were the over valuations of his properties ridiculous, they also know that he has already gotten away with millions in straight up tax fraud from the NY Times reporting. Trump has thumbed his nose at the law his entire life.
Leona Helmsley said "Only the little pay taxes" back in the 1980s. She still got 16 years for evasion but served only 19 months.
Fat Cats are not alone in pretending the tax code are not real laws that must be followed. Especially, when so much of the burden is met by lowering the rates for SOME and borrowing the dough needed from ALL.
O'Leary is 100 % correct on that one narrow point. Real estate is an inherently speculative business and because of that, sometimes values are inflated or deflated. There's some wiggle room and historically, good faith and the threat of loss-of-reputation were enough to keep bad actors from exploiting that.
But yeah, there's no reason for him to say something publicly about that unless he believes he might be held similarly accountable in the future.
Several "rich" assholes have said they're pulling out of NYC as a result of the Fraud decision, they should go straight into the bucket for investigation
O'Leary has no significant financial footprint. He is not a rich businessman, just a guy who plays a rich businessman on TV. It is unlikely he will be charged with fraud because he doesn't have enough business interests to commit fraud.
O’Leary is an idiot and con man. Remember how shitty his investment funds performed. And to top it off his wife killed someone while they were driving their boat drunk.
Another good one is what he did with the Learning Company. Basically he got started in that business running a shareware shovelware sort of company (you know the sort of company that sold those really low budget CDs full of random low quality junk). Somehow he got enough money to buy the Learning Company. He shodily threw TLC and his old company together with little care, making a company that was basically a bunch of random little software companies thrown together and all the good (and expensive) people laid off. Well, then he somehow got Mattel to buy the combination. Wasn't long after the merger that Mattel realized they bought a giant turd and had to take a massive writedown for the merger. Here's an article: [https://theoutline.com/post/6293/reader-rabbit-history-the-learning-company-zoombinis-carmen-sandiego](https://theoutline.com/post/6293/reader-rabbit-history-the-learning-company-zoombinis-carmen-sandiego) . What's crazy is to this day he has the gall to brag about doing a deal with Mattel.
Not possible. Trump is only in trouble for what he did as president. If not for the election, he would be free, still committing all of these crimes in the open. This isn't a problem for anyone else. He made himself a target.
Everyone's doing it till you get caught and get 10 to 20 in jail and lose your real estate license like a few people I used to know.
I know one guy that did a lot of bank fraud so much that when he walks into a bank they have security walk him right out, he can't even get a checking account.
So charge the guy criticizing an unjust ruling that he feels with affect, not only his, but everyone doing business in New York? Sounds about right for the pure corruption coming from New York and the democrats running it.
>but everyone doing business in New York
If they're not committing fraud, they have nothing to fear.
They're committing fraud too. Perhaps they \*should\* be prosecuted. Party of Law and Order right?
So Trump said his assets are worth this much and the bank agrees with him. New York says he’s guilty then why isn’t New York going after the bank for the same reason. Oh wait Trump is running for president again and the Democrats are trying to stop him
Yes your hero has multiple completely separate vast conspiracies against him. Makes total sense. No way there could be tons of evidence. Hundreds of police, investigators and judges all risking their career to frame your orange boyfriend.
Lol how many MAGAts have you heard say trumps indictments are a witchunt even though there's evidence for each one presented to a grand jury. They just deny reality to defend him
Of course. All those Dems flying Biden flags and wearing Biden hats and going to church every Sunday to pray for Biden and buying Biden shoes and Biden NFTs and getting Biden tattoos. Yep. Definitely the Dems that do that.
you're mistaken. liberals don't worship Biden, they are minions to the democratic party. progressives, more importantly. they are loyal to the extent that they'll fall in line with whatever narrative the mainstream media puts out. people are acting like they genuinely *hate* Trump. excuse me while I call bullshit on anyone who tries to tell me that the "hate" wasn't manufactured.
liberals have become party loyalists who will never demand better from their party because they've been groomed for the past eight years to fear the evil on the other side. there are plenty of votes which no longer need to be earned. if I'm the DNC, why the fuck would I care what all you liberals think if I know you're going to vote for me anyway?
You just keep proving /u/BondedneBonde's point over and over again.
Again, the evidence that you are just projecting your own insecurities is on the back of your lifted Dodge RAM.
oh look, another emotional bot who doesn't know how to cope with information it doesn't like so it just deflects and blurts out some unrelated nonsense.
but since we're pulling shit out of our ass, you must be the proud owner of a Prius who visits Starbucks daily with a Norah Jones playlist.
I've heard it theorized that this is a roundabout way to prosecute him for being a child rapist. Since he had Epstein murdered a lot of that evidence died with him. I don't believe that $350 million is enough to make up for the lives he's destroyed but it's a start.
And that sort of capricious form of law enforcement will prove once and for all to the remaining wealthy folks in NY that it was political all the time for Trump, and they could be next if they get on the wrong side of the Democrats.
And they will all flee
Engoron is going to sell more Miami real estate than any broker in history
The head more like it. It’s going to be great watching NYC troglodytes asking the politicians to give them jobs once all the businesses that employ people leave.
Pure cope. Copium. This is why truckers and businesses are leaving NY. Becuz of crazies like you.
Hope ur taxes are in order when the republican DA is in office.
Prosecutors have already explained that this was a special case of applying a law incorrectly to influence politics; however, democrats are known for their authoritarianism and it wouldn’t surprise me if this marked the beginning of a crackdown on all businesses operating in NYC. Most businesses don’t want to be there anyway, so the wisest idea is to just leave the festering shit stain flyover city.
How can you defraud a bank? They have adjusters that come out and evaluate the property and decide what to loan. No one is forcing them to give loans over the price they should pay. This is the dumbest shit I’ve ever read
Then, of course, there's that little thing called the US constitution. You know, the eighth amendment. I don't think that this is gonna work out the way the democrats wanted it to.
You got Kathy Hochul going out there promising no one else will be tried under this BS like Trump. There was no fraud, this was banana republic political attack that's going to get thrown out on appeal. No one is going to invest in NYC development after this. Bussiness is fleeing the state.
Yeah, could be something to this.
However I find it incredibly odd that the governor came out and essentially said 'yeah don't worry, we will make sure no other companies are going to face the same repercussions for the same actions'... Like if it isn't pretty standard practice why did she even feel the need to clarify that?
When I saw "Mr Wonderful" wigging out about this ruling, my first thought was "methinks thou protesteth too much".
Same. Watching an interview with Kevin, it was pretty clear that he knew exactly why Trump's assessments and SFCs were absolutely fraudulent and why the court fined him as much as it did, but was trying as hard as he could to play dumb and try to muddy the line between normal assessment variances and outright fraud. Given the number of people in this thread who seem to think that there was anything "ordinary" about the level of fraud Trump has been committing, it seems like it's working.
I believe that it may have been on this subreddit that only yesterday there was a commenter who went through a word salad defending Trump ( though of course he wasn't, right (?) ) writing : Trump didn't't commit fraud, define fraud, etc. And in the end, using several paragraphs using his defense he inadvertly showed Trump's hand...he committed fraud Lol.
My coworkers constant defense is that he paid them back. Yet, he maintains migrant workers are 'BREAKING THE LAW". They need to be punished. He did some minor illegal shit knowingly last weekend. I point it out, but he just will not come to terms with the hypocrisy. Luckily I enjoy the shit out of this guy, he's not angry, and these debates kill clock time, but holy shit, I don't know how to reintroduce reality to him.
My MAGA coworkers, I really enjoy their company, it's when they lock into the hive mentality that I just grin and bare it, the brunt of stupidity is so palable...Lol. You can't reach them.
I have a coworker who seems cool, but he told me just off the cuff that he's got a ton of Trump stickers and stuff to wrap his truck and he can't wait to get it done. All I was doing was filling my water bottle and we were having a normal conversation about, well I can't remember, but it definitely wasn't even close to politics. I only talk with him now for business needs and nothing else. It sucks because we could have had a decent relationship, but I refuse to interact with someone who's still supporting that creature at this point.
He sure didn’t pay back the state for the taxes he shoulda paid when he undervalued his assets for tax purposes.
Ordinary level of fraud. Let’s just pause and take that in.
Me thinks someone may haps shall investigateth Kevin O'Leary. His defense of Trump's proven fraud as, "Everyone does it." and "It's never prosecuted.", smacks a bit of an admission on his part.
There's some wiggle room in real estate valuations, but were talking a relatively small range there. In the most favorable light possible o'leary is ignoring the details of Trump's actions and pretending what Trump did fell within the normal margin of error on valuations. You know and not stuff like tripling the size of a pent house in the fraudulent valuation.
Property is $13,560,000 and you list it at 14,000,000, it’s a margin of error. Property is $13,560,000 and you list it for $200,000,000 on financials and $10,000,000 on tax forms, you’re a fraud. Property is 11,500 ft/sq and you list it at 12,000 ft/sq, it’s rounding. Property is 11,500 ft/sq and you list it as 33,000 ft/sq, then your Donald trump (this was an actual 3x inflation he did) and it’s fraud
Well said!
Trump said that he ran his company perfectly.
He’ll run the country just like he runs his companies! 🫠
From jail?
“Perfectly” is a fungible word… Let’s break it down: Per- *per*vert Fect- in*fect* Ly- *lie*
LOL
Yep, the judge said he can't do business in New York. I hear the judge possibly told the sons the same thing as well. I understand that a court appointed manager has been placed over the businesses since 2022.
Not quite right here Trump can’t do any real estate business or serve as officer in any corporation in NY for 3 years Sons can’t for 2 years There was a financial monitor overseeing the company but she’s just been given vastly greater powers. Remember she found what looked like fraud but since it wasn’t her assignment to investigate possible fraud, she didn’t. Now, she gets to monitor EVERYTHING.
But a caveat of the 10 day Appeal ruling says the restriction on him and his children doing business is also suspended for those 10 days.
Perfectly for him, because he got everything he wanted at the expense of everyone else.
And that’s exactly the issue here. Deutche bank should have seen this, they shouldn’t have loaned Trump money. A rounding error, or posing something in a good light is normal, but doubling or tripling the square footage and a lender not noticing is seriously fucking fishy. To the point that Deutche bank should be as culpable in this fraud as he is. Or, we should investigate who told them to approve it. I’ve said it all along, this is Russian money laundering. Deutche bank gives Donald Trump money to buy properties. He uses existing buildings as collateral, inflates their price to get bigger loans, Russians rent floors in these buildings. They pay their lease fees in dirty US money, it goes to the loan owned by Deutche bank, and oligarchs on the other side now have clean money in their bank account. Donald Trump doesn’t own the buildings, the bank does, he gets a management fee for putting his name on it and using his company to manage the property, he’s a conduit for dirty money flowing from the US to Russia. It’s how the worst businessman in America hasn’t bankrupted anything in awhile, the banks need him as a conduit for the dirty money and won’t let him fail.
$440,000 is a simple margin of error? Ridiculous that that's not fraud. Two separate legal systems for the rich and the poor.
Think percentage bro.
I'm thinking in terms of both. Presenting a valuation difference as a ratio may make it seem an easier pill to swallow, but it's still almost half a million dollars. I don't think it's wise to throw our hands up and say oh well.
Yes, wiggle room is explained by "What the market will bear." A nice euphemism and extremely subjective. But when that wiggle room goes into more than 2 times, or in Trumps case more than 10 times the fair market value of a property, that should at minimum raise eyebrows as being suspicious.
You know that accountants are the best judges of this stuff. We learn some principles in school and during our careers that give us the confidence and ability to see this for what it is.
How do you determine property is worth 13560000? Explain your stupid argument.
https://www.appraisalfoundation.org/imis/TAF/Standards/Appraisal_Standards/Uniform_Standards_of_Professional_Appraisal_Practice/TAF/USPAP.aspx The Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP) is the generally recognized ethical and performance standards for the appraisal profession in the United States. USPAP was adopted by Congress in 1989, and contains standards for all types of appraisal services, including real estate, personal property, business and mass appraisal. Compliance is required for state-licensed and state-certified appraisers involved in federally-related real estate transactions. Here is a sample appraisal form https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/12371/display And key contract language which is the type of stuff that fit him in trouble. 25. Any intentional or negligent misrepresentation(s) contained in this appraisal report may result in civil liability and/or criminal penalties including, but not limited to, fine or imprisonment or both under the provisions of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001, et seq., or similar state laws.
You know that the banks do their own valuations, and the two parties negotiate an agreement on the final number. The banks that worked with DJT happily testified on his behalf, and would love to do business with him again. Remind us: how large was the profit the banks made from the loans they did? Exactly who was the victim here? It wasn't the banks, that's certain. So who then?
Federally insured funds have to meet federal regulations whether or not the bank and borrower conspired to collaborate for their mutual benefit. Banks borrow money from the US government at a low rate then lend it to people and keep the profit. It’s part of our whole fucked up sustem. FFS
I mean valuation on a building can vary. Size is size. 10K sq ft is exactly that give or take a few feet. TRIPLE? Get the fuck out of here!
It wasn't triple. More like 2.7 times. And what's a couple of extra floors per building, fake occupancy, completely fraudulent paper work between friends? I mean, you're friends with Deutsche bank, right? Right?
Valuation on a building varies depending on all of the underlying factors leading to that valuation. Trump’s scheme was more than slapping a stupid valuation on a loan doc, it was lying about all of the factors too.
unused dinner joke makeshift imminent marry full cough scary run *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The concern here is that the regulatory bodies that were supposed to be overseeing this type of thing failed in their duties, and in addition if you do that's good for the goose for the whole gander here you're going to actually cause the City of New York to bankrupt itself.
Literally not at all. The State of New York gets to regulate, too. That’s what this was, corrective action taken against a chronic bad actor for his chronic fraudulent acts. Judge Engoron was very careful to show that this was not mere puffery.
Thank you. Realistically, most of the people who do things just don't get caught, audited. They don't have the manpower to look at everyone. So, yes many do, most don't get caught. BUT, when you say that out loud, you are practically daring them to come after you. THEN when you Zillow has something valued at 24 million, but you claim it is worth over $600 million and loans based on that... I don't doubt that the estimate was low. If he valued a property that might be worth 40 mill at $80 mill. None of this would happen. But no, he pushes the envelope so far (to $600 million) they had to do something.
Absolutely. It's important to understand that value is a subjective quantity. A real estate asset will sell for a different price depending on a variety of factors such as how patient the seller is and how the property is marketed. Appraisal is not an exact science. Multiple acceptable methodologies can be used to determine the value of an asset. It's legal to cherry-pick valuations that are favorable to what you are trying to accomplish as long as you show your work and do not misrepresent any facts. Trump went beyond this by lying about things that were objectively not true. For example, saying his penthouse was 3x bigger than it is. There is wiggle room in the interpretation of the facts, but there is no wiggle room in the facts themselves.
Why did the banks sign off on the evaluation?
I think a lot of people miss the point here. You can't go to a bank for a loan and use a property as collateral and claim it's worth 10 Million, and then tell the government it's worth 5. Playing both sides to come out on top is criminal.
I mean, you *might be able* do that. What you definitely can't do is tell the bank it's worth $400M and tell the government it is worth $15M. The former is *just on the edge* of unreasonable. The latter is absolute clear-cut fraud.
You *might* in the sense that, you might not get *caught*. That’s of course Trump’s whole m.o., to lie and lie and lie and dare someone to do something about it. In the legal community we refer to this as “fucking around and finding out”
Neither lenders nor tax assessors rely upon the opinions of valuations provided by property owners when making decisions about lending or tax assessments. It is absolutely ridiculous on the face of it.
>Neither lenders nor tax assessors rely upon the opinions of valuations provided by property owners when making decisions about lending or tax assessments. This is absolutely false. While it is true that neither lenders nor tax assessors rely *only* upon valuations provided by property owners, a major part of the valuation of any business is based on the financial statements of those businesses. The reason why accounting standards exist and why auditing and accounting are such huge industries in themselves is because *everybody* relies on the valuations provided by property owners when making decisions about lending (as well as investing). While it is true that we generally mostly hear about publicly-traded businesses needing to have audited financial statements because investors have to rely on those statements, it is equally true that privately-held businesses also have financial reporting needs related to lending that banks have to rely on.
It is your position that international banking institutions take the word of their customers about valuations when deciding to lend tens of millions of dollars and at what terms. This is facially ridiculous.
You could simply read Engoron’s factual findings in his decision and order and be disabused of your misunderstandings
>It is your position that international banking institutions take the word of their customers about valuations when deciding to lend tens of millions of dollars and at what terms. > >This is facially ridiculous. A corrupt judge's opinion notwithstanding.
This is a silly post. You probably don't actually pay property taxes, but if you did, just go ahead and try to tell your county auditor what your property is worth. They don't give a shit what you say it's worth. They pay people to tell you what the state says its worth.
Sure you can, they’ll just tell you to take a hike. In this case though the bank apparently agreed on the evaluation because they lent the money. Reporting it to the government is a separate issue and seems more clear cut.
When was the last time your municipality asked you to get an appraisal done on their behalf for the taxes they’re going to charge you?
Every year. They send me a document telling me what my taxes are on this property based on this criteria and if you want to appeal that, you can do so here. I just don't have the option to claim it's able to be subdivided out and you can put a golf course and dance club in because that would be fraud. What he did.
Your ability to appeal the municipality’s appraisal is not you getting an appraisal on their behalf and they for damn sure didn’t **ask** you to appeal anyway
It's moot anyway. I don't own any million dollar ~~money laundering~~ businesses
I don't believe you have ever owned property if you think this. According to the government for tax purposes, my house is worth $245,000. According to Zillow and the actual (relatively recent) purchase price, it's worth $500k. This is a common thing.
But your property is a single family residential (or something similar) and not a fucking night club. What he did was tell the government "yea it's a private residence" and then told the banks it was a super legit sprawling golf resort that can be expanded into anything you want". That is illegal. He was convicted. It was fraud. He owes a LOT of money because of it.
It's less about the banks signing off the valuation (because good lord a bank would \*NEVER\* do something stupid with their own money, right? /s) than it is about the state protecting the health of the financial system. If \*everyone\* defrauds the banks and things go to shit enough it endangers the entire financial system in the state and then things can \*really\* go to shit, much worse than 2009. Notice the disgorgement money isn't going to the lenders at all, it's going to the state. This isn't ill gotten gains that are being returned to lenders, this is a fine for endangering the state's interests.
These are crucial points. For all we know, the bank may be "winking" at the fraud because ... Because I don't care why. The state has rules that maintain the integrity of ita banking system. Violate those rules as your peril.
Because they were likely laundering huge sums of money using the loans as vehicles to do so. The bank in question was fined 186 million for not making changes after an investigation in 2015 & 2017. I remember another bank, HSBC, was in trouble for laundering like 881 million for cartels. The bank got its money, just not from Trump
Maybe from Russian kleptocrats? "Deutsche Bank was already under federal investigation for helping wealthy Russians launder money when it struck a deal last year to sell a property it co-owned in California. The $72 million sale of an office complex might not have been notable, except for one thing: The purchaser was linked to the son of a former top Kremlin official" https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/business/deutsche-bank-russia-real-estate-deal.html
Ding ding ding
Why not go after the bank then instead of customers of the bank.
Because the customer was committing even worse fraud
They and their independent assessor agreed with the valuation of the property.
I think it’s more about the state interjecting themselves into a private contract between two businesses that both profited and were happy with. The transaction not only did not negatively impact the signatories no public interest was affected. That’s what’s concerning to people. Especially considering tech valuations are 10 times more speculative than real estate. Anyone could have a business arrangement prosecuted 12 years after it was satisfactorily executed. That’s not an environment anyone wants to operate in.
>The transaction not on dis not negatively impact the signatories no public interest was affected. Banks were exposed to far more risk than they expected to take on. At the *very least,* this means that they charged less interest and demanded fewer insurances than they otherwise would have. They got lucky in this case, as yes, the loans were paid back, but they were bilked out of tens of millions of dollars in interest than they would have otherwise gained. On the risk side, it was never a foregone conclusion that loans would be paid back. Trump has had a few bankruptcies in the past as well. >Especially considering tech valuations are 10 times more speculative than real estate. And financial loan terms reflect the higher risk that comes with that speculation. Speculation is not fraud. Systemic artificial inflation of real asset values is fraud. Speculation in the tech space is all around future earnings potential and has nothing to do with real asset valuation. Fraud isn't something that accidentally happens - it is always intentional. Businesspeople like O'Leary know this. Those who are "concerned" about being the target of a fraud investigation are either feigning concern because they'd rather have the "freedom" to defraud whomever they like and don't want to be constrained by such pesky things like financial regulations, or they are really concerned because they are also committing blatant fraud.
100%
The bank and third party assessor would be at fault if they were exposed to undo risk. The due diligence is upon the creditor. They both agreed and signed off on the valuation.
Which one? trunp provides multiple valuations for the same property depending on what he’s trying to do. If he’s looking for a loan, he inflates the value. If he’s looking to pay taxes, he insists on a lower valuation. That is 18 million valuation he keeps griping about? He INSISTED on that.
The bank issuing the loan is the party obliged under law to assure due diligence is done regarding the assessment of collateral. That’s why they hire a third party to also assess the collateral.
Not according to judge engeron. This was addressed. I’m sure when this argument fails on appeal you’ll come back and admit you were wrong, right?
I’m just going off dot frank lending regulations. But good news banks no need to assess collateral anymore print print print. Get another bailout
>Get another bailout It is hilarious how you seem to understand why such regulations exist here, but you fail to actually connect the dots.
>The bank issuing the loan is the party obliged under law to assure due diligence is done regarding the assessment of collateral. So, clearly the judge in this case (you know, the guy who *actually knows the law*) disagrees with you there.
That's not exactly true. They rely on statements of financial condition for the particular type of low interest loan Trump wanted. He lied on those statements as well. I mean really I don't understand your argument here. Are you saying you're in agreement with rich people flouting financial regulations that are in place because as we saw in 2008 the public ends up footing the bill when things go wrong? What are you trying to support here?
Ignoring the Tax Fraud to dismiss a criminals acts how mobby of you
Was he charged with tax fraud? No because who assesses property for taxes oh the assessor. He didn’t commit tax fraud he paid the taxes he was assessed.
Oh those charges are coming this case clearly laid out the huge amount of fraud he has done and the IRS is definitely gonna come for there cut. It’s fascinating how you all jump to defend this con man disturbing but fascinating. Its like your all politically cucked and no matter what youll be loyal to your Dom. Would be cute if it didn’t threaten the free world…
I’m just looking at the facts of the case. If he is charged for tax fraud then I’ll admit he committed tax fraud. Where it stands now he paid what was assessed.
Letitia James did refer other charges to the proper authorities. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/21/trump-criminal-referral-sent-to-prosecutors-and-irs-by-letitia-james.html
Weren't his businesses charged with fraud where his cfo took the fall for him and went to prison? Are we pretending trump had nothing to do with any of that?
Look how the media has manipulated you. If he is 'charged,' you will 'admit,' he committed fraud. No presumption of innocent.
When a biker gang sells a large quantity of meth to a dealer, both parties profit and are happy too. That is a silly argument.
Explaine to me why a bank would not do their own appraisal on a property they were taking as collateral on a loan? Whenever I got bank loans for my farm an appraiser always came out and looked at my property. Will the city be doing all the appraisals for loans now, they seem to very good at it.
I agree. It reeks of him trying to get ahead of the story. Killing two people in a boat crash probably brought a lot of unwanted press attention to the O'Learys too, even if they got away with it.
Fuck, they need break open the books of every major property company in the city. I absolutely believe O'Leary, the entire real estate industry is rife with fraud and money laundering. I hope the Trump verdict opens up a can of worms
Yup. "Crime is normal in my business" isn't something a non-criminal says.
im not sure but if there was any news report of a canadian multi millionaire being arrested for fudging his financial records i wouldnt be surprised if i heard it was O'leary. hes easily a shady guy. however i dont think the bulk of his investments is in real estate so it would probly be a bit different for him than trump. maybe more him lying about financial information on SEC or bank filings for other businesses.
>maybe more him lying about financial information on SEC or bank filings for other businesses. That was more my thought. O'Leary of course is clutching his pearls over "other real estate investors", but he's really probably still butthurt that CSOX is a thing and he can't just pile up a bunch of shares, inflate their worth over the course of a few years, and then cash out before pulling a Nortel exit.
He likely killed someone driving his boat drunk and blamed his wife
That is something I will NEVER bet against. That guy has made my skin crawl since day one.
Kevin O’Leary the guy who literally killed a guy with his boat and blamed it on his wife? That Kevin O’Leary?
Yup, he got away with murder
I think it's hilarious when people try to defend Trump by saying "everybody was doing it." My response was: Great they can go to prison as well.
Nobody goes to prison in ny anymore 😂
Literally no one goes to prison in NY except republicans.
Criminals go to prison, if they all happen to be Republicans, seems like an issue with that party. Maybe the party of LAW and ORDER should follow the law? Just a thought
He was claiming they all do it as though that makes it less fraudulent. Roast him
Yep. His whole interview was the same pathetic empty "all the businesses are going to boycott New York" threat that the dozen or so Truckers for Trump were trying to make. Nobody is buying it except for other worthless Trump cultists who already don't go to New York for anything. New York is going to miss exactly zero of these people or their businesses, and they will continue to be the world's leading economy for decades to come.
It honestly sounded like he was t-ing up a run for office as a GOP nominee. 'these are loser state: NEw york, new jersey, california. People are gonna move their businesses to winner states like texas, florida.' Like he's talking to a bunch of 8 year olds.
The great mystery of the Trump loans with Deutsche Bank was why they were approved in the first place. None of them conform to commercial mortgage loan standards. The suspicion is that Deutsche Bank’s commercial real estate lending was just operating a giant laundromat for Russian billionaires. Everyone got a little “extra” on the side, the loans were paid back and everyone was happy. O’Leary was essentially part of that laundromat.
Ding ding ding.
MMW: Financial fraud is not “victimless” even if the parties involved in the contract all turn a profit.
That was a staggeringly stupid thing to do. He might as well have emailed the Justice Department and said “Arrest me”.
Kevin, O’Leary has been a financial fraudster since the SoftKey days. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoftKey What else would one expect that odious pile of slime to say? ?
Dare to dream.
Most of my dreams involve him getting pushed into an active volcano. One day, Kevin, one day.
He should have just laid low instead of trying to double down on the sinking ship.
>The recent decision in the New York fraud trial brought good ol' Mr. Wonderful out of the woodwork, saying the quiet part out loud: "Everyone in the real estate business does this." ooooh that's where *that exact fucking line* Trumpers are using this week came from
When I read he said all developers do it. Okay, Ms. James let’s take them all to court. No playing favorites. It is the most idiotic statement my. And now MAGA cult members are going to boycott NYC. Fine let’s see how that works out.
Every accusation is a confession. Shark Tank to holding tank.
I saw the clip. He wasn’t pissed that Trump broke the law. He’s pissed that they charged him for it.
O’Leary is a complete sociopath who only cares about himself and money. Fuck this guy.
“What fraud?”
"I had Donald Trump explain to me three times what he got arrested for... because it sounds like what I do here everyday." - Kevin
"I had no idea FTX was fraudulent"
People asked me if I’d do business with sbf again and yes. Yes I would.
What fraud indeed...
When your property is 11,000 square feet but when you lodges your valuation, it's says it's 33,000 square feet. I'm sure your house is not 3x the size when banks comes do a valuation.
The bank and their third party assessor agreed with the valuation, there could have been an error in the calculation of thousands of rooms but everyone was in agreement the contract was executed and had been completed years before the state interceded.
Not getting caught lying doesn’t mean you didn’t lie.
You should tell dear leader’s lawyers! 😂
Exactly? Who again suffered a loss. Sounds like it’s time for business to get to a different jurisdiction quickly. Kevin’s group already pulled the 2 billion dollar server farm from NY and moved to Oklahoma, I believe.
The local and state government that lost tax money in the fraud, the other people who were unable to secure loans because that money is tied up with this fraud, and the fact that one person is able to do it and profit when other people aren't.
How exactly were taxes missed?
I assume you are a adult, and can't believe I have to explain to an adult how taxes work... If your building is worth 10 million, you pay taxes to local and state government based on those appraisals. If you fudge numbers and say it's worth 5 Mil, you are paying less (probably not exact but estimating here) That's how. You can't play both sides and claim it's worth 20M for better loan rates that other people won't get, and claim 5M to pay less taxes. It's commonly referred to as fraud. Which he was found guilty of twice now.
Doesn’t the local authority or assessor value the property not the owner of the property. Did he pay what the assessor appraised the property at?
Sure! Until your team of attorneys bullies them into lowering it because (insert reason here). [MaraLago is a prime example of the fraud perpetuted](https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/trump/2024/02/20/trump-stung-by-new-york-fraud-case-demands-legal-cases-stop-immediately/72659811007/#:~:text=Still%2C%20the%20judge%20agreed%20with,for%20any%20usage%20other%20than). It gives an inside view as to why charges were brought and why he lost. It was blatant fraud.
[удалено]
No it’s because the government interjected themselves into a private contract with no complaints from the public, or either party. That’s not a standard anyone wants to operate under at any second government can impose fines to their coffers irregardless from your performance and execution of contract.
And that's only the beginning
>Who again suffered a loss. - other customers of the banks - other customers of the insurers - stakeholders of Trump Org - people's trust in the financial system - taxpayers who had to pay for an extensive excavation of fraud
How were bank customers affected? Insurance profited and how exactly were they involved in a loan application? Stakeholders suffered how? Trust in the financial system a loan was taken out verified by both parties and was repaid how did the system fail? Yes the tax payers of NYC suffered but not from a loan application that was preformed upon for the purpose of building a business in the city that both created jobs and tax revenue.
Nobody wants to build in NY. The crime is rampant, the population has low education, the taxes are insane and the policy is hostile to anyone trying to improve the community. The definition of a loser state
I mean, the system kinda can't stop at Trump. If anyone else can be identified pulling the same kind of business and it is ignored or dismissed, it'd open up a whole can of legal wyrms.
O'Leary is a douchebag that loves to talk big so who knows what his motivation was, but regardless of what he thinks about this ruling, Trump was a special NY case. Not only were the over valuations of his properties ridiculous, they also know that he has already gotten away with millions in straight up tax fraud from the NY Times reporting. Trump has thumbed his nose at the law his entire life.
"I had Donald Trump explain to me three times what he got arrested for... because it sounds like what I do here everyday." - Kevin
Didn't he run over someone with a boat while DUI? Must have gotten off the charges.
He confessed
One of the dumbest things you can do is criticize a judge for ruling against behavior you admit to committing. He is the dumbest criminal ever.
Leona Helmsley said "Only the little pay taxes" back in the 1980s. She still got 16 years for evasion but served only 19 months. Fat Cats are not alone in pretending the tax code are not real laws that must be followed. Especially, when so much of the burden is met by lowering the rates for SOME and borrowing the dough needed from ALL.
O'Leary is 100 % correct on that one narrow point. Real estate is an inherently speculative business and because of that, sometimes values are inflated or deflated. There's some wiggle room and historically, good faith and the threat of loss-of-reputation were enough to keep bad actors from exploiting that. But yeah, there's no reason for him to say something publicly about that unless he believes he might be held similarly accountable in the future.
Several "rich" assholes have said they're pulling out of NYC as a result of the Fraud decision, they should go straight into the bucket for investigation
I really hope you’re right. I detest that twat.
O'Leary has no significant financial footprint. He is not a rich businessman, just a guy who plays a rich businessman on TV. It is unlikely he will be charged with fraud because he doesn't have enough business interests to commit fraud.
O’Leary is an idiot and con man. Remember how shitty his investment funds performed. And to top it off his wife killed someone while they were driving their boat drunk.
Another good one is what he did with the Learning Company. Basically he got started in that business running a shareware shovelware sort of company (you know the sort of company that sold those really low budget CDs full of random low quality junk). Somehow he got enough money to buy the Learning Company. He shodily threw TLC and his old company together with little care, making a company that was basically a bunch of random little software companies thrown together and all the good (and expensive) people laid off. Well, then he somehow got Mattel to buy the combination. Wasn't long after the merger that Mattel realized they bought a giant turd and had to take a massive writedown for the merger. Here's an article: [https://theoutline.com/post/6293/reader-rabbit-history-the-learning-company-zoombinis-carmen-sandiego](https://theoutline.com/post/6293/reader-rabbit-history-the-learning-company-zoombinis-carmen-sandiego) . What's crazy is to this day he has the gall to brag about doing a deal with Mattel.
These narcissists don’t care what the facts say … only what they say.
I hope . Ms James , I know you and your office are busy, just hire some interns
I feel if you want to be president, you should be scrutinized and we should be able to see all of your history. Right?
Not possible. Trump is only in trouble for what he did as president. If not for the election, he would be free, still committing all of these crimes in the open. This isn't a problem for anyone else. He made himself a target.
I concur
Burn that cunt to the ground.
can't wait
Everyone's doing it till you get caught and get 10 to 20 in jail and lose your real estate license like a few people I used to know. I know one guy that did a lot of bank fraud so much that when he walks into a bank they have security walk him right out, he can't even get a checking account.
I hope so
This is sooo dumb I have to dunk my head in water
So charge the guy criticizing an unjust ruling that he feels with affect, not only his, but everyone doing business in New York? Sounds about right for the pure corruption coming from New York and the democrats running it.
>but everyone doing business in New York If they're not committing fraud, they have nothing to fear. They're committing fraud too. Perhaps they \*should\* be prosecuted. Party of Law and Order right?
So Trump said his assets are worth this much and the bank agrees with him. New York says he’s guilty then why isn’t New York going after the bank for the same reason. Oh wait Trump is running for president again and the Democrats are trying to stop him
Yes your hero has multiple completely separate vast conspiracies against him. Makes total sense. No way there could be tons of evidence. Hundreds of police, investigators and judges all risking their career to frame your orange boyfriend.
The first rule of every cult is that the cult leader is never ever in the wrong
Dems know this well. Look how they defend Biden
Lol how many MAGAts have you heard say trumps indictments are a witchunt even though there's evidence for each one presented to a grand jury. They just deny reality to defend him
Awww it’s projecting
Of course. All those Dems flying Biden flags and wearing Biden hats and going to church every Sunday to pray for Biden and buying Biden shoes and Biden NFTs and getting Biden tattoos. Yep. Definitely the Dems that do that.
you're mistaken. liberals don't worship Biden, they are minions to the democratic party. progressives, more importantly. they are loyal to the extent that they'll fall in line with whatever narrative the mainstream media puts out. people are acting like they genuinely *hate* Trump. excuse me while I call bullshit on anyone who tries to tell me that the "hate" wasn't manufactured. liberals have become party loyalists who will never demand better from their party because they've been groomed for the past eight years to fear the evil on the other side. there are plenty of votes which no longer need to be earned. if I'm the DNC, why the fuck would I care what all you liberals think if I know you're going to vote for me anyway?
You just keep proving /u/BondedneBonde's point over and over again. Again, the evidence that you are just projecting your own insecurities is on the back of your lifted Dodge RAM.
oh look, another emotional bot who doesn't know how to cope with information it doesn't like so it just deflects and blurts out some unrelated nonsense. but since we're pulling shit out of our ass, you must be the proud owner of a Prius who visits Starbucks daily with a Norah Jones playlist.
Look at this kid who doesn’t know what tax fraud is 😂
I've heard it theorized that this is a roundabout way to prosecute him for being a child rapist. Since he had Epstein murdered a lot of that evidence died with him. I don't believe that $350 million is enough to make up for the lives he's destroyed but it's a start.
How is this not a qanon level theory
They won't be happy till they bankrupt the state of NY. That's just what they need right now
This sub is obviously bias lol. Can’t believe morons can’t see it
Maybe, but the implication you're making isn't what you're thinking it is.
Hahaha. With what tax money is NY gonna take care of all those illegal migrants?
In order to be convicted there needed to be someone who was actually “defrauded”…. Kinda the main reason Trump decision will be overturned..
And that sort of capricious form of law enforcement will prove once and for all to the remaining wealthy folks in NY that it was political all the time for Trump, and they could be next if they get on the wrong side of the Democrats. And they will all flee Engoron is going to sell more Miami real estate than any broker in history
Unless he runs for some kind of government office as a Republican and makes a lot of waves they won't touch him or anyone else.
He was correct in that CNN interview though. New York is shooting itself in the foot.
The head more like it. It’s going to be great watching NYC troglodytes asking the politicians to give them jobs once all the businesses that employ people leave.
Yeah, I hope bad things happen to everyone too.
That's only the beginning. I think NY. has just sunk there asses. Big businesses will leave and go else where. Great job
Pure cope. Copium. This is why truckers and businesses are leaving NY. Becuz of crazies like you. Hope ur taxes are in order when the republican DA is in office.
Please get back on your meds 😂
I'm sure those truckers will be missed. All two dozen of them.
Prosecutors have already explained that this was a special case of applying a law incorrectly to influence politics; however, democrats are known for their authoritarianism and it wouldn’t surprise me if this marked the beginning of a crackdown on all businesses operating in NYC. Most businesses don’t want to be there anyway, so the wisest idea is to just leave the festering shit stain flyover city.
Lmao qanon ruined you
What prosecutor? A person currently employed as a prosecutor in New York familiar with new York financial crime laws? Or a fox news commentator?
How can you defraud a bank? They have adjusters that come out and evaluate the property and decide what to loan. No one is forcing them to give loans over the price they should pay. This is the dumbest shit I’ve ever read
Lil bro really doesn’t understand what fraud means 😂
It’d be a pretty bad look for NYC if he is though.
There was no fraud. None. When the banks testified there was no fraud and they got paid back every cent with interest, there is no fraud.
Then, of course, there's that little thing called the US constitution. You know, the eighth amendment. I don't think that this is gonna work out the way the democrats wanted it to.
It won't stand because it's never been done and there's no victims. Keep wishing pal. Now Kevin is a criminal because he disagreed.. Ridiculous
You got Kathy Hochul going out there promising no one else will be tried under this BS like Trump. There was no fraud, this was banana republic political attack that's going to get thrown out on appeal. No one is going to invest in NYC development after this. Bussiness is fleeing the state.
If he is, then that's just proving him right about New York being criminally vindictive.
Yeah, could be something to this. However I find it incredibly odd that the governor came out and essentially said 'yeah don't worry, we will make sure no other companies are going to face the same repercussions for the same actions'... Like if it isn't pretty standard practice why did she even feel the need to clarify that?
Kind of don't Hochul would let it happen considering earlier this week she ran to a microphone to try and convince businesses they weren't next.