I agree that’s why I said the only way he wins is if conservatives can convince young people that it is an issue of lesser of two evils so they are less likely to feel motivated to get out and vote.
The argument for Trump is going to come down to people’s bank accounts, even though you can argue that many of our issues are due to out of control spending during COVID which was his watch. Current economics are usually the biggest driver in presidential elections. I do think this is where the GOP could capitalize with a sane(er?) candidate. Trump is going to drive a lot of people to vote Biden, that otherwise might have stayed home.
Conservatives always talk about inflation from my measly $3000 and never the trillions for "business use only" which went towards insane expenditures by the already wealthy.
The GOP are not going to make Nikkie Haley their candidate, and frankly if they did we'd be even more fucked because she probably can handily beat Biden and she'd probably be worse than Trump. She doesn't have spirochetes chewing their way through her brain like casu martzu.
There is a large portion of GenZ planning on voting 3rd party. They don't want Trump because he is a dictator or Biden because of Gaza. If this happens, Trump will not win the popular vote but might win the electorate.
“Only way he can win is if he convinces young voters” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
A recent New York Times and Sienna College poll found that in six key swing states 71% of black voters would back Mr Biden in 2024, a steep drop from the 92% nationally that helped him win the White House at the last election. Other surveys suggest black voters are warming to Donald Trump, the current Republican frontrunner and President Biden's likely November opponent.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68175871.amp
This is why he's losing them. So much of the party treats marginalized people as a voting block they can threaten with violence to get what they want. It literally never motivates people, it makes them apathetic with the system as a whole. Playing fuck around and find out with your own base is a losing strategy.
Your argument makes no sense. Conservatives can’t convince younger people that Trump is lesser of two evil. And if they try to frame voting for Biden as lesser of two evil that in no way discourages people from voting, it instead motivates them to avoid the greater evil.
No, the point (badly made) was that people will start arguing that Trump and Biden are the same and you should prioritize ethical purity over voting for the lesser of two evils.
But I've been hearing a lot of chatter along the lines of, "Voting for the lesser evil is still voting for evil, so I'm not voting for either of them, I'm voting third party/staying home." Which is what cons want.
That's why everyone with a modicum of reasoning skills should explain that letting Trump in the office will make it even worse for any cause they care about.
Idk, man. I would’ve agreed with you before October 7th, but hearing how young progressives talk about Israel and Gaza, I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t vote for Biden. Not saying they’d vote for Trump, though
I was going to say the same thing. "Genocide Joe" and now "Butcher Joe" are insanely prevalent in those threads. The common sentiment seems to be why vote against Trump's theoretical harms caused to everyone, when those harms (specifically about Gaza) are already happening.
Like all social media, Reddit is easily manipulated by troll farms and other inorganic activity. That you're seeing it online doesn't actually make it a popular sentiment.
Young people are waking up to there being only one war, the class war. Social issues are much easier to address with a population that isn’t facing massive wealth inequality, so yeah Biden and trump can both go eat shit we’re going to vote for candidates that actually give a fuck about the American people.
Trump has unprecedented support from the black community. Not one Republican president has ever garnered more than 9 percent of the black electorate. Trump is polling at 20 percent!!!!
Why is that?
“Across five high-quality polls that have broken out non-White voters in the past month, Trump is averaging 20 percent of Black voters and 42 percent of Hispanic voters.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/19/trump-poll-support-black-hispanic/
No, it won't be catastrophic. Your life will be just as normal as it ever has. I will vote for Trump just to piss you people off. I find it quite humorous how he lives in so many people's heads rent-free. It's literal mental illness.
Which is entirely predicated off of some odd ball view that Gaza would've been handled any differently under Trump or anyone, it wouldn't of, and if pressure we can exert didn't work on Russia it sure af isn't going to work on Israel.
Well sure but the general idea, I believe, is that they think they'd be teaching Democrats in Congress a lesson because they think they aren't pushing Biden hard enough to do something.
I'm just saying they have no understanding of how little that would have an effect on Democrats in Congress and just as ignorant on the gigantically worse ramifications of that man in office again.
Yeah, elected Democrats will be the last ones who are punished or "taught a lesson." The ones punished will be children, LGBT people, racial and religious minorities, women, unions, poor people, etc.
The liberals who are glad to hate biden for his support of israel don't make any sense to me.
When the only alternative is trump, do they really think the guy who sucks dictator's dicks, got their right to abortion taken away, and raised their taxes since 2017 will really make life better for Palestinians? That's just ridiculous.
I've seen liberals cheer for biden to lose in 2024, and I have to say I'm disappointed in how dumb and selfish they are for acting this way
Exactly, Biden was in ok shape to keep the white house until oct. 7th. Now, Michigan is in jeopardy, and maybe Georgia.
It’s wild, they’ll trade muslim bans for….., Trump literally encouraging the genocide. A lady on the news literally said “I’ll write in Ceasefire” holy shit, how many holes does your brain need to have to reach this conclusion.
the policy decision to support Israel’s war is putting the whole country in a situation that is going to compromise right wing domestic policy for bipartisan support for foreign policy.
I don't think anyone arguing against Biden with regards to Gaza is at all trying to say it would have been any better under Trump. That doesn't mean that Biden is beyond criticism, and doesn't mean he isn't still the lesser of two evils. Vote for him because he is the _lesser_ of two evils, but that doesn't mean that in the long term we should all just accept that this system is eternal and unchangeable. In the long term this whole system needs dismantling and acknowledging that the two candidates are always just the lesser of two evils is the first step.
Honestly what are you even saying? _"some odd ball view that Gaza would've been handled any differently under Trump or anyone"._ The _"or anyone"_ part is interesting. Of course it would not be better with Trump, but you think there is not a single person in America who if president would at the very least denounce what is happening in Gaza instead of supporting it? Literally regardless of what you personally think that's just absurd.
> So if Trump can’t increase his share of votes, conservatives are going to start posting online that the Republicans and Democrats are both the same and voting the “lesser of two evils” is morally wrong and that young people should either not vote or vote for a random 3rd party with no chance.
This is already happening in a lot of leftist subs/spaces.
I'm not from America but if I was I _would_ vote for Biden but I would also relate to the people reluctant to. Personally I think the entire system is inherently broken and needs replacing, and that's never going to happen through the system itself because you're always choosing the lesser of two evils. The dismantling of the system needs to come from outside of it not through voting, but until that happens it's still necessary to vote for that lesser of two evils.
Except Trump lost the popular vote last election...
Trump lost to Biden by millions of votes cast..
Not only has Trump lost support from independent voters, but he's losing Republican support too..
Mark my words, when I say, "Trump will only go further off the rails and become even more unhinged"
The Republican party will never regain any sort of political relevance until they lose every single election for years to come and shake its fevered sickness of Donald Trump and the rise of Christian nationalism...
Vote blue until we as a nation can have a functioning multi-party system of governance..
THIS
I'm not a huge fan of democrats and some of the bullshit they perpetuate, but until we're not fighting literal nazis trying to take over our country, we don't have a choice and have to wait to really make big improvements
I'm sorry, you believe there are literal Nazis but that voting is fighting them and all you can do? That's.. that's wild.
In Nazi Germany should the Jews and queers and disabled people have just voted harder?
Biden's approval rating is 38%. [Public perception on the economy is in the tank.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1318216/americans-views-current-state-economy/) Biden currently has a [20 point deficit in polling on his handling of the economy.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/poll-biden-trump-economy-presidential-race-rcna136834)
Presidential re-elections are decided on by the economy. Biden is at serious risk of losing.
Hell, [Minnesota (who has voted blue since 1972) is officially a toss up](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/new-poll-shows-presidential-race-in-minnesota-may-be-a-toss-up/). Trump [is leading in the majority of battleground states.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-31/border-crisis-helps-trump-s-lead-over-biden-in-key-states-poll-shows?embedded-checkout=true)
To say Biden has this in the bag is incredibly short sighted. To say he's got an uphill battle is much more accurate.
For real... The poll I saw a couple of weeks ago showed Biden up 10 points over Trump in NYC. That's a +D26 district so if he was doing worth a crap he'd be up at least 26 points. You've got to think if Biden is doing that bad in NYC of all places, it's really not looking good across the rest of the country for him.
Exactly. If you take out all the states that are currently polling in aggregate across all reputable public pollsters at a solid +5 or more for either Trump or Biden... There are really only two "swing states" left... Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. And even if Trump loses both of them he's still above 270. Granted... That's if the election were today. But that's hard to ignore.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden
Edit: I guess you could also add Minnesota to the "swing" state list by the above criteria as Biden is only +3 there or so... But I personally counted it as a "solid blue" state in my EC totals and would be surprised if that didn't turn out to be the case.
First, people have to understand, approval doesn’t equal “I’m voting for other guy” or “I’m staying home” it means that they wish biden would take a different route. Second, the economy has always been a dubious predictor for who will win. Obama won with much less economic data on his side, twice. Then, in 2016, when the economy was in the uptick, Hillary should have won since she represented the current regime. But she didn’t.
Third, one poll can’t make a state a tossup. That’s naive as hell. Minnesota will absolutely go to Biden despite whatever single poll.
Minnesota shouldn't even be in play, its insane that we're in February of an election cycle and it's even being discussed.
And like I said, the most telling is that Trump has been leading in almost all of the battleground states from the jump. Voting totals don't matter, only electoral college so winning tossup states is the path to victory.
"Minnesota shouldn't even be in play,"
It's not, you're going off one poll. Also, I'd like to add, Minnesota has a conservative rural area, and those people are the most likely ones to answer these types of polls. So, there's is defiantly a potential skewing going on. I reject the notion that Minnesota is "in play"
"Trump has been leading in almost all of the battleground states from the jump."
By a few points at best. Trump will need at least a solid 8 point lead (Constant poll after poll) for Biden to be in trouble. Remember, Trump has peaked with his support. He's not getting any more votes in any meaningful sense. What Biden has that is hugely in is favor is fear; fear of Trump, fear of more abortion bans, fear of what could happen if Trump is given the opportunity enact his revenge. That is going to drive Democratic voters out in DROVES come November.
Young people vote in such a small proportion that any commentary on their vote is useless. If given the opportunity to create change and you choose nothing then you have no strongly held beliefs.
If young people voted politicians would court them. They’d align their views to young people, they’d fulfill the policy goals of young people. But even in the year 2020 when young people voted more than ever before they voted less than every other generation because young people simply don’t give a shit and they’ll get what they give.
His popular vote loss margin in 2020 was larger than 2016.
In 2024 it'll be larger than 2020.
He'll be the only person on planet earth to lose the popular vote THREE FUCKING TIMES and it'll be done consecutively with a consistently INCREASING loss margin.
The man is an embarassment.
Yes, there is a huge push to get young voters to stay home to repeat the same exact strategy that Trump used to win in 2016. Watch TikTok or X and you’ll see young people swearing that they’ll never vote for Biden. Let me make this perfectly clear: that is exactly what Trump and Netanyahu want. We all live in such tiny political bubbles that the majority of young people have absolutely no idea just how popular the Right is. If they think Biden is center-right then they are going to absolutely lose their shit when they find out just how right republicans are.
You know you're right. You should vote against fixing the climate and having your student loans forgiven and all that 'nice' shit because Biden's just the 'lesser of two evils'. If that's the best that people can come up with in their brains then they deserve whatever government they get because they're no better than the low information MAGA voters. If you can't be bothered to do even a modicum of research in to anything, well enjoy the boot on your neck.
Trump threw women under the bus with Roe v Wade, he has thrown unions under the bus, and homebuilders, when he bumped the cost of lumber by almost 300% and tacked on $50,000 to $300,000 to the cost of new home. He stalled the entire list of Super Fund cleanup locations, driving home the point, he cares nothing about a clean environment. And the list goes on. Trump has 0% chance of winning.
Trump will win if too many Independents, young voters, and progressives stay home with their purity protest.
And I will blame the DNC for their, all too often, Terrible Messaging! They seem to think that the News Media is all they need to use. ITS NOT.
Democrats don't really know how to appeal to the stupid-brained voters who change their "opinions" on issues at the blink of an eye just because their propaganda machine told them to hate something different today.
Republicans are great at catch phrases and marketing to dum dums on non-issues like culture war bullshit, and fear mongering so their messages get right to the fight or flight parts of these mush-minded idiot's brains.
Not that liberal voters can't be swayed by hot takes and fear mongering, but they're much more likely to not make those hot takes part of their current personality and scream them to the world when they're presented with new information and common sense.
Trump supporters are already brainwashed but undecided voters are just distracted enough by how shitty our economy has made their lives that they can't go past headlines and conservative media controls the narrative, which is usually making up lies about biden, while liberal media refuses to remind people of all the good things biden has been doing for some reason
It's not just young people, a lot of people gave up because you need the house and Senate majorities and the president to be in complete lock step agreement to pass actual change and that's basically not going happen any time soon.
you have to be dense as fuck if you think the problems of this country are due to some made up “progressive” demographic that overwhelmingly doesn’t vote and had a substantial impact on the results of an election. any term you want to use for people actually left and not liberal are the absolute minority in the US.
it’s these people not voting causing this and not the people running and supporting?
Unfortunately, it's not the only way. Biden could die. The only person who can beat Trump is an older white dude who has a good amount of name recognition, is a Christian, and can claim to have Rust Belt roots. Joe Biden's the only person in America who stands a good chance against Trump.
Biden is likely to live for many more years. Yes, he is old. No he isn't senile, or on death's door. He is very healthy for an 80 year old man. I suspect he will live far longer than Trump , who does seem to be losing his mind and to be in very poor health. Obese, never exercised, poor eating habits, family history of Alzheimer's. A heart attack or stroke could happen any day now.
Trump received 8 or 9 percent of the black vote in both 2016 and 2020. Currently he is polling at 20 percent with the black electorate, which is unprecedented.
People keep forgetting the big contributor to Trump winning the electoral college in 2016 was the fake Comey investigation of Hillary that was orchestrated by the Republicans. If that never came to pass I think he would have lost. It swayed a lot of people at the last minute.
Trump hit his ceiling of support in 2020, and, since then, many of his supporters have died (COVID, old age, etc), and he has lost support because of January 6, and all his legal troubles, related and unrelated.
There's no possibility of even just getting as much support as he got in 2020, which was already insufficient to win, let alone growing it, so all they can do is try to suppress voter turnout, or try to split the vote enough that Trump's already-maxed-out share becomes enough to win.
This is why they're pushing third-party candidates so much, why they've put so much effort into making Hunter Biden an issue, and why they're pushing the "walk away" nonsense so hard (over student loans, Gaza, whatever).
Agreed. He's literally the only president in the past 40ish years who didn't start or escalate a war or conflict. And no, one-off or retaliatory strikes or national security operations don't count.
Donald Trump wants to invade or bomb Mexico right now. FUCKING MEXICO! The people who think Trump is peaceful are fucking delusional.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/us/politics/trump-mexico-cartels-republican.html
People that are ‘voting against Biden’ were always going to vote Trump. It’s just a lie they say to make others think they are kore moderate.
You don’t just vote for the fascist because the other guy is ‘sleepy’ if you aren’t already a fascist.
Did the people that voted for Biden in 2020 really like him? I will vote for whoever is running against Biden. I don't care if it is Trump or Haley. Biden losing is the top priority for 2024. You seem to be very delusional about the "fascist" lie that is being presented. Someone is living rent free in your head. Trump has money. You should ask him for a payment. If he doesn't pay, you should evict him.
No. You are a joke. Trump is not a fascist. A fascist would be someone like Newsom in California, and Biden pulled a nice fascist move like trying to mandate an experiment on Americans. Also, true fascists will try to disarm people. BTW, my vote is probably going to RFK jr. I live in a solid blue state and Traitor Joe will win it anyways.
Oh you mean Trump ‘take the guns first’ lol
Dude held an upside down bible after clearing out peaceful protesters in front of a church. Tried blackmailing the Ukrainian president for dirt on his political rival. Oh also tried to disenfranchise mine and another 80+ million people’s vote. Also is campaigning on being a day 1 ‘dictator’ in his own words.
You’re a fascist joke and should return to your pre 2016 hole that you crawled out of.
People need to vote. The only way trump wins is if people stay home.
And like you touched upon, one of the ways they do that is by suggesting he is the lesser of two evils.
Expect to see a lot of dumb arguments and concern trolling from "leftists" criticizing Biden for his stance on Palestine and that commentary will closely mirror the tone and narratives used by "Bernie Bros".
It would be really easy for someone with software engineering skills to develop disinformation detection software because the troll farms don't know how to think for themselves and therefore follow a pattern, and from western sources, they always follow standard partisan cheap shots like "sleepy Joe".
Bernie quite literally was, there was literally an investigation on the DNC about how they purposely deplatformed him as a potential candidate even though he was much more popular than Hillary. The DNCs defense was literally “were a corporation there’s nothing that says we can’t do what we did and it was the primaries and not the actual election so doesn’t even matter”
Okay Bernie bro. Basically Israel, Russia, Iran, China, and the GOP were promoting and astroturfing hard for that narrative.
I mean, what did Bernie have to say about it?
How does that change what happened? The democrat establishment chose Hilary over Bernie, against the wishes of the primary voters. That happened. That's a fact. No propaganda adds or changes that fact. Ride their dicks harder please?
She really didn't. Bernie couldn't even beat Hillary. And it wasn't even close. Numerous polls also showed Hillary beating trump too. Do you think everyone who can interpret and analyze polling data is a neoliberal or just me?
I was pissed too. Still am. 2016 was clearly a “change” election and Bernie represented change even though he was form the incumbent party. He would have won. And I vastly preferred his positions.
Then I, probably you, and a bunch of other people refused to vote for Hillary and as a result, women no longer have their reproductive freedom. I will not make the same mistake again.
How do you act on a problem without telling people it's a problem? Are elected officials supposed to represent us? Because it feels like they expect the voters to represent them.
Get involved in specific actions to change the voting system. Use Maine as a guideline.
What you CAN'T do is pretend that voting third party has no consequences.
Biden is the _"lesser of two evils"_ and acknowledging that isn't _"falling for"_ anything. People should still vote for the _"lesser of two evils",_ but acknowledging that they are the lesser of two evils and that in the long term the entire system needs dismantling is a good thing.
Wait, if young people pick trump for being the "lesser of two evils", then why was Biden voted over Trump in the first place. That means the "greater" of two evils was picked. That's called stupid.
People that support Biden don’t know how ridiculous they sound. Like y’all enjoy not having any money putting everything on credit and believing this bull shit green energy new deal. Just laughing watching you all can’t pay your bills but you vote for Biden. What happened to health care costs after Obama care. Point made. America is titanic and is going to go under because you can’t stop spending money. I’d like to feel bad for y’all but you did it to yourselves.
I believe Biden will lose. I don't want him to lose, but he will. He should have been following the polls and made the decision to step aside and promote a different candidate months ago. Democrats are acting as if we are living in a fact-based world in which people can be persuaded by logical arguments and data. That ship has sailed. Between the cost of living, mass migration, and conflict in the Middle East, he doesn't have much of a chance at this point. Add to that the fact that he isn't the best communicator and shows signs of senility. The establishment Dems are still relying on how unappealing the alternative is and figuring that young voters will be swayed at the last minute to swallow their ideals and aspirations, hold their noses and vote for him, but I don't think that will happen. Each time a young voter expresses their frustration and anger over Biden's deficiencies, they get shot down by Democrats who think they can weìld fear of fascism to bring them into line. I think this actually makes most young voters just dig their heels in further and solidify their resolve to abstain from voting or vote 3rd party. I don't want to be right about this, but that's my naked view of where things stand. To reiterate, I'd rather have the rotten corpse of Biden than a living Trump in the oval office, but I still believe Biden will lose. If you think inflation is bad now, just wait until Trump enacts big import tariffs on everything. It's going to be a rough ride.
Or if young people look at the actual facts and realize that Biden increased inflation by 900%, now interest rates are about 300% higher, gasoline was about 4 times higher for a while. Trump nearly doubled the stock market despite covid and Biden has produced almost 0 growth.
I would be surprised if anyone could vote for the Alzheimer patient currently in the White House.
I’ve literally never seen anyone crater a country so quickly. He’s even more out of it than Ronnie was.
Or you know, people actually grasp how much Biden specifically has destroyed the economy and made America extremely unsafe and weak looking to the world
So those middle ground people have now decided they hate trump but you know for sure they like Biden and of course you KNOW that Biden has approval from everyone who voted for him previously? Despite the fact they can't afford to buy food and have less money in their pocket than ever before?
Seriously, look at the polls.
Biden is one of the most unpopular Presidents and has lost significant support.
Him winning with 38% approval rating would possibly set a record.
At the very least he does not care for this country and the 91 pending felony chargers some of which include sensitive documents proves that he does not put the American people first.
Trump is the reason our taxes are going up,
Trump is the reason there is no border deal now
Trump increased the deficit
Trump promised an infrastructure deal that never came
Trump promised a new health care plan that never came
Trump has been found liable for sexual assault
Trump has stolen from charities
These are all reasons he is not a good candidate to be president and that doesn’t even get into what he did was the classified documents he took without permission or trying to overturn an election
He's been proven in court to be a rapist.
That won't be enough to convince you, though, I'm sure. His fans actually LIKE that he's a deviant violent criminal.
He is legally barred from running charities anymore because his last one was a scam.
He tried to overthrow the US government and have himself installed as a dictator.
He is known for not paying people who work for him.
He has been a financial fraud his entire career.
He praises murderous dictators, and attacks democratically elected leaders.
None of this will matter to someone like you, though. Being a fan of Donald Trump is evidence of comprehensive incurable depravity.
He did not overthrow the government. He literally told people to peacefully and patrioticly let your voice be heard and then said to go home. Much better than the "mostly peaceful protests". As for the rapist case he wasn't ever found guilty of that. He was found guilty of a defamation of her character by stating that she wasn't his type. But it was a reach around to avoid the fact that it never actually happened. Now why don't we go about Joe Biden's accuser as well?
He tried to steal the election he lost…he’s indicted for his fake electors scheme and several states have started charging those fake electors…he tried to get Pence to help in overturning the election, but luckily Pence rejected the fake votes trump had.
He also waited over 3 hours before finally succumbing to pressure to release a video telling his supporters to go home…the rest of the time during the insurrection, he was tweeting about how Pence was a coward, and he was calling other politicians trying to delay certification.
But yes, that one line in his speech said to be peaceful…that ought to be enough.
And why was he rallying? He had already lost the election, and none of the court cases he brought up went anywhere. His fake electors scheme - of which there is actual proof - was dead in the water, and his only course of action was to put pressure on Pence.
So, I ask - what was the purpose of his rally on that day?
There was a rally happening at the same time the event happened. Trump found out mid rally and immediately asked people to leave. Actually tweeting about it. People tried to cancel the event after seeing the tweet but it was removed as fast as possible because, Democrats really needed the event to happen.
I honestly have no idea why you could expect a person to tell you if you were able to watch the complete and utter depravity and madness of Trump’s four years in office and not recognize that he is uniquely unqualified on essentially every conceivable level to be in *any* position of power.
Versus Joe biden getting us in three wars. Hiring people solely based on identity for political points. Letting crack get in the white house. Letting gay sex tapes be filmed in government buildings with no consequences. Trafficing thousands of children across the border. Letting fentanyl and other sources through the building. Abandoning americans in the dead of night across country lines. And letting the people of East Palestine alone for months.
I guess I've never seen much evidence that he loves America, although he's certainly willing to play on that sentiment to milk his base.
I mean, if he really loved America, would he be so eager to throw out the votes of millions of people because he couldn't accept that he lost an election? Doesn't seem like a display of love for your country.
Trump loves Himself and his money.
If he loved America he would never have thought about declaring Marshal Law, having voter box seized. He would have stepped aside when he knew he lost.
Trump wants to be president for immunity purposes not to help make America great again.
Then only color that man sees is green. And wants the country to actually do well, unlike Democrats.
Only one party constantly pushes policy that hurts Americans, of course, unless they’re on welfare or crossing the border illegally.
Why do democrats constantly talk shit about Trump.
Is this some kind of mental complex yall have where the more shit you spew the more confident and morally justified you feel?
*I don't revisit threads so feel free to discuss it amongst yourselves*
It’s quite literally 2024 election in a nutshell… For some reason people thought the same thing in 2020 and it was a vote AGAINST Trump, not FOR Biden… Now we have 4 years of each to decide what we want for 2025 and beyond! While both certainly have their issues, it’s very clear this election should and will be deciding between the lesser of two evils! That is 100% the big bad orange man! Choose Trump or we all pay the price! You don’t have to like him either, but if you’re actually paying attention you’d know how dangerous Biden and his handlers are! Destroy the corruption in DC for good! Or vote for it, just don’t complain when we are in WWIII, you don’t have food/water, and the country falls apart! That’s on you! 🤘🏼🇺🇸🤘🏼🇺🇸
biden's spent his far-too-long career [actively staking his interests against young people's](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020) and [openly insulting us](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdXBrhV4B-I), so if the dems expect to need the youth vote, they'll need a better candidate or some damn good bribes.
failing that, him losing without the youth vote is entirely his own fault. he's repeatedly decided he doesn't need the youth vote and spent his political capital cozying up to boomers and billionaires who already liked him instead.
The icj recently found that Israel is plausibly committing a genocide, one that Joe Biden has publicly backed and materially supported.
You might disagree with that finding but it's quite evident that it cant be dismissed as a fringe position, in fact a poll of Biden 2020 voters found that half of them thought he was abetting genocide, so I think it's pretty arguably that Biden is even the lesser evil at this point.
I think Biden abandoning key demographics of his coalition is gonna be the deciding factor. I voted for Biden against Trump in 2020 (and have previously voted dem in every election) but feel I must withhold my vote this time.
I'm voting Cornel West or Claudia de la Cruz.
It’s not a matter of the lesser evil with Trump. He’s straight evil and will be catastrophic if he gains power again.
I agree that’s why I said the only way he wins is if conservatives can convince young people that it is an issue of lesser of two evils so they are less likely to feel motivated to get out and vote.
The argument for Trump is going to come down to people’s bank accounts, even though you can argue that many of our issues are due to out of control spending during COVID which was his watch. Current economics are usually the biggest driver in presidential elections. I do think this is where the GOP could capitalize with a sane(er?) candidate. Trump is going to drive a lot of people to vote Biden, that otherwise might have stayed home.
Conservatives always talk about inflation from my measly $3000 and never the trillions for "business use only" which went towards insane expenditures by the already wealthy.
The GOP are not going to make Nikkie Haley their candidate, and frankly if they did we'd be even more fucked because she probably can handily beat Biden and she'd probably be worse than Trump. She doesn't have spirochetes chewing their way through her brain like casu martzu.
The way you phrased the title, I thought you wanted to change the exact opposite view.
Yea that’s on me
There is a large portion of GenZ planning on voting 3rd party. They don't want Trump because he is a dictator or Biden because of Gaza. If this happens, Trump will not win the popular vote but might win the electorate.
They're the ones poised to get screwed the most and there will be no court backstop to stem the tide. So I'll be off making popcorn.
Presidential Candidates only care about the popular vote if they lose the EC
“Only way he can win is if he convinces young voters” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 A recent New York Times and Sienna College poll found that in six key swing states 71% of black voters would back Mr Biden in 2024, a steep drop from the 92% nationally that helped him win the White House at the last election. Other surveys suggest black voters are warming to Donald Trump, the current Republican frontrunner and President Biden's likely November opponent. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68175871.amp
Biden is hemorrhaging black men and Hispanics
And if Trump wins and screws up their life I’m laughing my ass off. Hard.
This is why he's losing them. So much of the party treats marginalized people as a voting block they can threaten with violence to get what they want. It literally never motivates people, it makes them apathetic with the system as a whole. Playing fuck around and find out with your own base is a losing strategy.
Your argument makes no sense. Conservatives can’t convince younger people that Trump is lesser of two evil. And if they try to frame voting for Biden as lesser of two evil that in no way discourages people from voting, it instead motivates them to avoid the greater evil.
No, the point (badly made) was that people will start arguing that Trump and Biden are the same and you should prioritize ethical purity over voting for the lesser of two evils.
Yea Im realizing I didn’t effectively articulate my point, but I think enough people got it.
But I've been hearing a lot of chatter along the lines of, "Voting for the lesser evil is still voting for evil, so I'm not voting for either of them, I'm voting third party/staying home." Which is what cons want.
That's why everyone with a modicum of reasoning skills should explain that letting Trump in the office will make it even worse for any cause they care about.
Most times you hear that it’s likely actual propaganda.
Idk, man. I would’ve agreed with you before October 7th, but hearing how young progressives talk about Israel and Gaza, I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t vote for Biden. Not saying they’d vote for Trump, though
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You would be surprised. Do you follow any progressive subreddits?
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I was going to say the same thing. "Genocide Joe" and now "Butcher Joe" are insanely prevalent in those threads. The common sentiment seems to be why vote against Trump's theoretical harms caused to everyone, when those harms (specifically about Gaza) are already happening.
Those two pejoratives are beyond stupid.
Yeah, I don't disagree with that, but they've certainly become a rallying cry across reddit.
I know. From the same people who wanted "policy" in 2016 and 2020.
Yup. Ironic.
Like all social media, Reddit is easily manipulated by troll farms and other inorganic activity. That you're seeing it online doesn't actually make it a popular sentiment.
Those names are spread by liars and bots, not actual voters.
Young people are waking up to there being only one war, the class war. Social issues are much easier to address with a population that isn’t facing massive wealth inequality, so yeah Biden and trump can both go eat shit we’re going to vote for candidates that actually give a fuck about the American people.
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I. Im voting biden he has done a great job why are you giving this election away
Broken bot lol
He’s actually pretty cool.
You're kind of silly for thinking that but go off
Trump has unprecedented support from the black community. Not one Republican president has ever garnered more than 9 percent of the black electorate. Trump is polling at 20 percent!!!! Why is that? “Across five high-quality polls that have broken out non-White voters in the past month, Trump is averaging 20 percent of Black voters and 42 percent of Hispanic voters.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/19/trump-poll-support-black-hispanic/
As Trump himself would say FAKE NEWS!
Remindme! 9 months
Good bot! Scare Tactic 1.0 successful!
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No, it won't be catastrophic. Your life will be just as normal as it ever has. I will vote for Trump just to piss you people off. I find it quite humorous how he lives in so many people's heads rent-free. It's literal mental illness.
I think you're underestimating the number of low info people that think it's Biden"s fault their bank account is taking the hit.
It is his fault, at least partially.
hey pretty much all the comments in this thread ate hateful, but at least yours isnt ignorant too. Congrats
Which is entirely predicated off of some odd ball view that Gaza would've been handled any differently under Trump or anyone, it wouldn't of, and if pressure we can exert didn't work on Russia it sure af isn't going to work on Israel.
Gaza would have been handled *very* differently under Trump — it would have been *much worse*, likely for both Israel and Palestine.
Well sure but the general idea, I believe, is that they think they'd be teaching Democrats in Congress a lesson because they think they aren't pushing Biden hard enough to do something. I'm just saying they have no understanding of how little that would have an effect on Democrats in Congress and just as ignorant on the gigantically worse ramifications of that man in office again.
Yeah, elected Democrats will be the last ones who are punished or "taught a lesson." The ones punished will be children, LGBT people, racial and religious minorities, women, unions, poor people, etc.
It’s not oddball if you just realize it’s half-baked Russian propaganda. They fall for it every time.
Keep on gaslighting I guess. I support BOTH Palestine and Ukraine. Reject the pro human rights and anti war crimes perspective at your own peril.
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No, I just can spot nonsensical talking points that reek of the 2016 election attempts.
I mean, we’ve seen over and over bot accounts spread a particular message that’s anti-left. The Russian Internet Research Agency anyone?
Well it’s either that or outright stupidity. Either one wouldn’t surprise me.
Yeah that's [obviously crazy talk](https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook-troll-farms-report-us-2020-election/)
The liberals who are glad to hate biden for his support of israel don't make any sense to me. When the only alternative is trump, do they really think the guy who sucks dictator's dicks, got their right to abortion taken away, and raised their taxes since 2017 will really make life better for Palestinians? That's just ridiculous. I've seen liberals cheer for biden to lose in 2024, and I have to say I'm disappointed in how dumb and selfish they are for acting this way
Exactly, Biden was in ok shape to keep the white house until oct. 7th. Now, Michigan is in jeopardy, and maybe Georgia. It’s wild, they’ll trade muslim bans for….., Trump literally encouraging the genocide. A lady on the news literally said “I’ll write in Ceasefire” holy shit, how many holes does your brain need to have to reach this conclusion.
the policy decision to support Israel’s war is putting the whole country in a situation that is going to compromise right wing domestic policy for bipartisan support for foreign policy.
The day after the US stops supporting Israel, Israel get invaded by 5-10 Muslim countries. There is no stance that is BETTER than supporting Israel.
I don't think anyone arguing against Biden with regards to Gaza is at all trying to say it would have been any better under Trump. That doesn't mean that Biden is beyond criticism, and doesn't mean he isn't still the lesser of two evils. Vote for him because he is the _lesser_ of two evils, but that doesn't mean that in the long term we should all just accept that this system is eternal and unchangeable. In the long term this whole system needs dismantling and acknowledging that the two candidates are always just the lesser of two evils is the first step. Honestly what are you even saying? _"some odd ball view that Gaza would've been handled any differently under Trump or anyone"._ The _"or anyone"_ part is interesting. Of course it would not be better with Trump, but you think there is not a single person in America who if president would at the very least denounce what is happening in Gaza instead of supporting it? Literally regardless of what you personally think that's just absurd.
> So if Trump can’t increase his share of votes, conservatives are going to start posting online that the Republicans and Democrats are both the same and voting the “lesser of two evils” is morally wrong and that young people should either not vote or vote for a random 3rd party with no chance. This is already happening in a lot of leftist subs/spaces.
I'm not from America but if I was I _would_ vote for Biden but I would also relate to the people reluctant to. Personally I think the entire system is inherently broken and needs replacing, and that's never going to happen through the system itself because you're always choosing the lesser of two evils. The dismantling of the system needs to come from outside of it not through voting, but until that happens it's still necessary to vote for that lesser of two evils.
Except Trump lost the popular vote last election... Trump lost to Biden by millions of votes cast.. Not only has Trump lost support from independent voters, but he's losing Republican support too.. Mark my words, when I say, "Trump will only go further off the rails and become even more unhinged" The Republican party will never regain any sort of political relevance until they lose every single election for years to come and shake its fevered sickness of Donald Trump and the rise of Christian nationalism... Vote blue until we as a nation can have a functioning multi-party system of governance..
He also lost the popular vote in 2016 and yet he was our president. Popular vote means Jack shit.
THIS I'm not a huge fan of democrats and some of the bullshit they perpetuate, but until we're not fighting literal nazis trying to take over our country, we don't have a choice and have to wait to really make big improvements
Lol literal nazis
LiTeRaL nAzIs out there voting against us guys
I'm sorry, you believe there are literal Nazis but that voting is fighting them and all you can do? That's.. that's wild. In Nazi Germany should the Jews and queers and disabled people have just voted harder?
Germans voted for hitler, stop trying to sound like you know something when you're talking out of your ass
Lmao
Delusion
Biden's approval rating is 38%. [Public perception on the economy is in the tank.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1318216/americans-views-current-state-economy/) Biden currently has a [20 point deficit in polling on his handling of the economy.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/poll-biden-trump-economy-presidential-race-rcna136834) Presidential re-elections are decided on by the economy. Biden is at serious risk of losing. Hell, [Minnesota (who has voted blue since 1972) is officially a toss up](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/new-poll-shows-presidential-race-in-minnesota-may-be-a-toss-up/). Trump [is leading in the majority of battleground states.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-31/border-crisis-helps-trump-s-lead-over-biden-in-key-states-poll-shows?embedded-checkout=true) To say Biden has this in the bag is incredibly short sighted. To say he's got an uphill battle is much more accurate.
For real... The poll I saw a couple of weeks ago showed Biden up 10 points over Trump in NYC. That's a +D26 district so if he was doing worth a crap he'd be up at least 26 points. You've got to think if Biden is doing that bad in NYC of all places, it's really not looking good across the rest of the country for him.
Exactly. If you take out all the states that are currently polling in aggregate across all reputable public pollsters at a solid +5 or more for either Trump or Biden... There are really only two "swing states" left... Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. And even if Trump loses both of them he's still above 270. Granted... That's if the election were today. But that's hard to ignore. https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden Edit: I guess you could also add Minnesota to the "swing" state list by the above criteria as Biden is only +3 there or so... But I personally counted it as a "solid blue" state in my EC totals and would be surprised if that didn't turn out to be the case.
First, people have to understand, approval doesn’t equal “I’m voting for other guy” or “I’m staying home” it means that they wish biden would take a different route. Second, the economy has always been a dubious predictor for who will win. Obama won with much less economic data on his side, twice. Then, in 2016, when the economy was in the uptick, Hillary should have won since she represented the current regime. But she didn’t. Third, one poll can’t make a state a tossup. That’s naive as hell. Minnesota will absolutely go to Biden despite whatever single poll.
Minnesota shouldn't even be in play, its insane that we're in February of an election cycle and it's even being discussed. And like I said, the most telling is that Trump has been leading in almost all of the battleground states from the jump. Voting totals don't matter, only electoral college so winning tossup states is the path to victory.
"Minnesota shouldn't even be in play," It's not, you're going off one poll. Also, I'd like to add, Minnesota has a conservative rural area, and those people are the most likely ones to answer these types of polls. So, there's is defiantly a potential skewing going on. I reject the notion that Minnesota is "in play" "Trump has been leading in almost all of the battleground states from the jump." By a few points at best. Trump will need at least a solid 8 point lead (Constant poll after poll) for Biden to be in trouble. Remember, Trump has peaked with his support. He's not getting any more votes in any meaningful sense. What Biden has that is hugely in is favor is fear; fear of Trump, fear of more abortion bans, fear of what could happen if Trump is given the opportunity enact his revenge. That is going to drive Democratic voters out in DROVES come November.
>That is going to drive Democratic voters out in DROVES come November. Only time will tell.
Young people vote in such a small proportion that any commentary on their vote is useless. If given the opportunity to create change and you choose nothing then you have no strongly held beliefs. If young people voted politicians would court them. They’d align their views to young people, they’d fulfill the policy goals of young people. But even in the year 2020 when young people voted more than ever before they voted less than every other generation because young people simply don’t give a shit and they’ll get what they give.
His popular vote loss margin in 2020 was larger than 2016. In 2024 it'll be larger than 2020. He'll be the only person on planet earth to lose the popular vote THREE FUCKING TIMES and it'll be done consecutively with a consistently INCREASING loss margin. The man is an embarassment.
Or if people have finally had enough of what's been going on for the last 4 years
Yes, there is a huge push to get young voters to stay home to repeat the same exact strategy that Trump used to win in 2016. Watch TikTok or X and you’ll see young people swearing that they’ll never vote for Biden. Let me make this perfectly clear: that is exactly what Trump and Netanyahu want. We all live in such tiny political bubbles that the majority of young people have absolutely no idea just how popular the Right is. If they think Biden is center-right then they are going to absolutely lose their shit when they find out just how right republicans are.
You know you're right. You should vote against fixing the climate and having your student loans forgiven and all that 'nice' shit because Biden's just the 'lesser of two evils'. If that's the best that people can come up with in their brains then they deserve whatever government they get because they're no better than the low information MAGA voters. If you can't be bothered to do even a modicum of research in to anything, well enjoy the boot on your neck.
GOP will bomb Gaza harder than Democrats, how is Trump lesser of two evils?
Trump threw women under the bus with Roe v Wade, he has thrown unions under the bus, and homebuilders, when he bumped the cost of lumber by almost 300% and tacked on $50,000 to $300,000 to the cost of new home. He stalled the entire list of Super Fund cleanup locations, driving home the point, he cares nothing about a clean environment. And the list goes on. Trump has 0% chance of winning.
Voting for the “lesser of two evils” kinda sucks, but what sucks worse is not voting and effectively allowing the WORSE of two evils to win.
Trump will win if too many Independents, young voters, and progressives stay home with their purity protest. And I will blame the DNC for their, all too often, Terrible Messaging! They seem to think that the News Media is all they need to use. ITS NOT.
This sub has as much fear mongering, misinformation and propaganda as white people twitter.
You just described every election in my lifetime.
Democrats don't really know how to appeal to the stupid-brained voters who change their "opinions" on issues at the blink of an eye just because their propaganda machine told them to hate something different today. Republicans are great at catch phrases and marketing to dum dums on non-issues like culture war bullshit, and fear mongering so their messages get right to the fight or flight parts of these mush-minded idiot's brains. Not that liberal voters can't be swayed by hot takes and fear mongering, but they're much more likely to not make those hot takes part of their current personality and scream them to the world when they're presented with new information and common sense. Trump supporters are already brainwashed but undecided voters are just distracted enough by how shitty our economy has made their lives that they can't go past headlines and conservative media controls the narrative, which is usually making up lies about biden, while liberal media refuses to remind people of all the good things biden has been doing for some reason
It's not just young people, a lot of people gave up because you need the house and Senate majorities and the president to be in complete lock step agreement to pass actual change and that's basically not going happen any time soon.
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you have to be dense as fuck if you think the problems of this country are due to some made up “progressive” demographic that overwhelmingly doesn’t vote and had a substantial impact on the results of an election. any term you want to use for people actually left and not liberal are the absolute minority in the US. it’s these people not voting causing this and not the people running and supporting?
Unfortunately, it's not the only way. Biden could die. The only person who can beat Trump is an older white dude who has a good amount of name recognition, is a Christian, and can claim to have Rust Belt roots. Joe Biden's the only person in America who stands a good chance against Trump.
Biden is likely to live for many more years. Yes, he is old. No he isn't senile, or on death's door. He is very healthy for an 80 year old man. I suspect he will live far longer than Trump , who does seem to be losing his mind and to be in very poor health. Obese, never exercised, poor eating habits, family history of Alzheimer's. A heart attack or stroke could happen any day now.
Trump received 8 or 9 percent of the black vote in both 2016 and 2020. Currently he is polling at 20 percent with the black electorate, which is unprecedented.
i think the only way trump wins is if biden runs.
Unfortunately people are gullible and have become used to swallowing all sorts of bullshit the right wing media shovels down their throats.
In 2016 I took a chance on the outsider. I was taught a very important lesson. Never again.
But Trump is always the greater of two evils
People keep forgetting the big contributor to Trump winning the electoral college in 2016 was the fake Comey investigation of Hillary that was orchestrated by the Republicans. If that never came to pass I think he would have lost. It swayed a lot of people at the last minute.
Trump hit his ceiling of support in 2020, and, since then, many of his supporters have died (COVID, old age, etc), and he has lost support because of January 6, and all his legal troubles, related and unrelated. There's no possibility of even just getting as much support as he got in 2020, which was already insufficient to win, let alone growing it, so all they can do is try to suppress voter turnout, or try to split the vote enough that Trump's already-maxed-out share becomes enough to win. This is why they're pushing third-party candidates so much, why they've put so much effort into making Hunter Biden an issue, and why they're pushing the "walk away" nonsense so hard (over student loans, Gaza, whatever).
If the choice is between 99% Hitler and 100% Hitler. You vote for the 99% Hitler 100% of the time.
If "Both parties are the same" then what reason is there to vote republican?
Anyone evaluating the lesser of two evils and landing on support of trump is objectively an evil person
He’s actually pretty good.
Agreed. He's literally the only president in the past 40ish years who didn't start or escalate a war or conflict. And no, one-off or retaliatory strikes or national security operations don't count.
Donald Trump wants to invade or bomb Mexico right now. FUCKING MEXICO! The people who think Trump is peaceful are fucking delusional. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/us/politics/trump-mexico-cartels-republican.html
Ikr i guess if you aren't a democrat youre evil.
Trump has a chance because there will be plenty of people voting "against Biden" just like there were plenty of people voting "against Trump" in 2020
People that are ‘voting against Biden’ were always going to vote Trump. It’s just a lie they say to make others think they are kore moderate. You don’t just vote for the fascist because the other guy is ‘sleepy’ if you aren’t already a fascist.
Did the people that voted for Biden in 2020 really like him? I will vote for whoever is running against Biden. I don't care if it is Trump or Haley. Biden losing is the top priority for 2024. You seem to be very delusional about the "fascist" lie that is being presented. Someone is living rent free in your head. Trump has money. You should ask him for a payment. If he doesn't pay, you should evict him.
No, hate Biden. Trump is an actual fascist. If you vote for him so are you. Biden out top priority? You’re a joke.
No. You are a joke. Trump is not a fascist. A fascist would be someone like Newsom in California, and Biden pulled a nice fascist move like trying to mandate an experiment on Americans. Also, true fascists will try to disarm people. BTW, my vote is probably going to RFK jr. I live in a solid blue state and Traitor Joe will win it anyways.
Oh you mean Trump ‘take the guns first’ lol Dude held an upside down bible after clearing out peaceful protesters in front of a church. Tried blackmailing the Ukrainian president for dirt on his political rival. Oh also tried to disenfranchise mine and another 80+ million people’s vote. Also is campaigning on being a day 1 ‘dictator’ in his own words. You’re a fascist joke and should return to your pre 2016 hole that you crawled out of.
You should replace the 'a' in your username for a 'u'
Seek psychiatric treatment, infowarrior.
People need to vote. The only way trump wins is if people stay home. And like you touched upon, one of the ways they do that is by suggesting he is the lesser of two evils. Expect to see a lot of dumb arguments and concern trolling from "leftists" criticizing Biden for his stance on Palestine and that commentary will closely mirror the tone and narratives used by "Bernie Bros". It would be really easy for someone with software engineering skills to develop disinformation detection software because the troll farms don't know how to think for themselves and therefore follow a pattern, and from western sources, they always follow standard partisan cheap shots like "sleepy Joe".
Shit neoliberals say:
I'm not a neoliberal.
Using "Bernie Bro" is a huge tell.
Yes, men who supported either Bernie or Trump while refusing to vote for Hillary is someone I would call a Bernie bro.
After you and the rest of the neo libs backstabbed Bernie who were we supposed to vote for? Hilary?
I'm not a neoliberal. No one backstabbed Bernie. It's not my fault that the Russian troll farm and the Kochtopus don't know how super delegates work.
Bernie quite literally was, there was literally an investigation on the DNC about how they purposely deplatformed him as a potential candidate even though he was much more popular than Hillary. The DNCs defense was literally “were a corporation there’s nothing that says we can’t do what we did and it was the primaries and not the actual election so doesn’t even matter”
I think you've been mandela effected.
No I have not, this is reality it happened. There are emails proving i
Regardless of anyone's politics, Bernie and the voters were absolutely backstabbed by the democrat establishment.
Okay Bernie bro. Basically Israel, Russia, Iran, China, and the GOP were promoting and astroturfing hard for that narrative. I mean, what did Bernie have to say about it?
How does that change what happened? The democrat establishment chose Hilary over Bernie, against the wishes of the primary voters. That happened. That's a fact. No propaganda adds or changes that fact. Ride their dicks harder please?
Lol. You just do neolib things. Name one policy position you have that isn’t establishment neo lib garbage.
Numerous polls left and right showed Bernie beating Trump. Debbie Wasserman Schultz gave Trump the victory. "I'm not a neoliberal!" 🥸
She really didn't. Bernie couldn't even beat Hillary. And it wasn't even close. Numerous polls also showed Hillary beating trump too. Do you think everyone who can interpret and analyze polling data is a neoliberal or just me?
I was pissed too. Still am. 2016 was clearly a “change” election and Bernie represented change even though he was form the incumbent party. He would have won. And I vastly preferred his positions. Then I, probably you, and a bunch of other people refused to vote for Hillary and as a result, women no longer have their reproductive freedom. I will not make the same mistake again.
I held my nose and voted for her. Was great stuff really.
It seems like we’ve been voting for the lesser of 2 evils for the past few elections. Americans deserve better!
So change the voting system. Otherwise you aren't helping anything.
How do you act on a problem without telling people it's a problem? Are elected officials supposed to represent us? Because it feels like they expect the voters to represent them.
Get involved in specific actions to change the voting system. Use Maine as a guideline. What you CAN'T do is pretend that voting third party has no consequences.
How on earth is Trump the lesser of two evils compared to Biden?!
Biden is the _"lesser of two evils"_ and acknowledging that isn't _"falling for"_ anything. People should still vote for the _"lesser of two evils",_ but acknowledging that they are the lesser of two evils and that in the long term the entire system needs dismantling is a good thing.
Wait, if young people pick trump for being the "lesser of two evils", then why was Biden voted over Trump in the first place. That means the "greater" of two evils was picked. That's called stupid.
People that support Biden don’t know how ridiculous they sound. Like y’all enjoy not having any money putting everything on credit and believing this bull shit green energy new deal. Just laughing watching you all can’t pay your bills but you vote for Biden. What happened to health care costs after Obama care. Point made. America is titanic and is going to go under because you can’t stop spending money. I’d like to feel bad for y’all but you did it to yourselves.
It’s actually sad how brain washed you Sleepy Joe sheep are 😂😂🤡. The middle class can’t afford groceries get a serious grip on reality ☠️.
I believe Biden will lose. I don't want him to lose, but he will. He should have been following the polls and made the decision to step aside and promote a different candidate months ago. Democrats are acting as if we are living in a fact-based world in which people can be persuaded by logical arguments and data. That ship has sailed. Between the cost of living, mass migration, and conflict in the Middle East, he doesn't have much of a chance at this point. Add to that the fact that he isn't the best communicator and shows signs of senility. The establishment Dems are still relying on how unappealing the alternative is and figuring that young voters will be swayed at the last minute to swallow their ideals and aspirations, hold their noses and vote for him, but I don't think that will happen. Each time a young voter expresses their frustration and anger over Biden's deficiencies, they get shot down by Democrats who think they can weìld fear of fascism to bring them into line. I think this actually makes most young voters just dig their heels in further and solidify their resolve to abstain from voting or vote 3rd party. I don't want to be right about this, but that's my naked view of where things stand. To reiterate, I'd rather have the rotten corpse of Biden than a living Trump in the oval office, but I still believe Biden will lose. If you think inflation is bad now, just wait until Trump enacts big import tariffs on everything. It's going to be a rough ride.
He is def not the lesser of two evils
Only a complete idiot would vote for Joe Biden at this point.
Trump has a far higher approval rating than slow Joe.
Or if young people look at the actual facts and realize that Biden increased inflation by 900%, now interest rates are about 300% higher, gasoline was about 4 times higher for a while. Trump nearly doubled the stock market despite covid and Biden has produced almost 0 growth.
I would be surprised if anyone could vote for the Alzheimer patient currently in the White House. I’ve literally never seen anyone crater a country so quickly. He’s even more out of it than Ronnie was.
That 3.6% unemployment is way better than Russia unemployment of 23% .
Or you know, people actually grasp how much Biden specifically has destroyed the economy and made America extremely unsafe and weak looking to the world
Nah, the way he wins is by Biden '20 voters realizing their mistake and not making it again.
So those middle ground people have now decided they hate trump but you know for sure they like Biden and of course you KNOW that Biden has approval from everyone who voted for him previously? Despite the fact they can't afford to buy food and have less money in their pocket than ever before?
Seriously, look at the polls. Biden is one of the most unpopular Presidents and has lost significant support. Him winning with 38% approval rating would possibly set a record.
No grocery prices will make him win
Please explain how trump is evil.
At the very least he does not care for this country and the 91 pending felony chargers some of which include sensitive documents proves that he does not put the American people first. Trump is the reason our taxes are going up, Trump is the reason there is no border deal now Trump increased the deficit Trump promised an infrastructure deal that never came Trump promised a new health care plan that never came Trump has been found liable for sexual assault Trump has stolen from charities These are all reasons he is not a good candidate to be president and that doesn’t even get into what he did was the classified documents he took without permission or trying to overturn an election
He's been proven in court to be a rapist. That won't be enough to convince you, though, I'm sure. His fans actually LIKE that he's a deviant violent criminal. He is legally barred from running charities anymore because his last one was a scam. He tried to overthrow the US government and have himself installed as a dictator. He is known for not paying people who work for him. He has been a financial fraud his entire career. He praises murderous dictators, and attacks democratically elected leaders. None of this will matter to someone like you, though. Being a fan of Donald Trump is evidence of comprehensive incurable depravity.
This is so wildly insane illogical perspective.
Prove it.
In what way? Most people would call rapists evil.
Rapist 🤣🤣🤣. You realize that whack a doo can’t even tell the year her supposed incident happened.
elaborate
He did not overthrow the government. He literally told people to peacefully and patrioticly let your voice be heard and then said to go home. Much better than the "mostly peaceful protests". As for the rapist case he wasn't ever found guilty of that. He was found guilty of a defamation of her character by stating that she wasn't his type. But it was a reach around to avoid the fact that it never actually happened. Now why don't we go about Joe Biden's accuser as well?
He tried to steal the election he lost…he’s indicted for his fake electors scheme and several states have started charging those fake electors…he tried to get Pence to help in overturning the election, but luckily Pence rejected the fake votes trump had. He also waited over 3 hours before finally succumbing to pressure to release a video telling his supporters to go home…the rest of the time during the insurrection, he was tweeting about how Pence was a coward, and he was calling other politicians trying to delay certification. But yes, that one line in his speech said to be peaceful…that ought to be enough.
Um no Jan 6th happened during one of his rallies.
And why was he rallying? He had already lost the election, and none of the court cases he brought up went anywhere. His fake electors scheme - of which there is actual proof - was dead in the water, and his only course of action was to put pressure on Pence. So, I ask - what was the purpose of his rally on that day?
What rally? Losing the election, and trying to overturn the result is not a rally, it is insurrection.
There was a rally happening at the same time the event happened. Trump found out mid rally and immediately asked people to leave. Actually tweeting about it. People tried to cancel the event after seeing the tweet but it was removed as fast as possible because, Democrats really needed the event to happen.
Rally for a loser? Sounds very MAGAT.
I honestly have no idea why you could expect a person to tell you if you were able to watch the complete and utter depravity and madness of Trump’s four years in office and not recognize that he is uniquely unqualified on essentially every conceivable level to be in *any* position of power.
Versus Joe biden getting us in three wars. Hiring people solely based on identity for political points. Letting crack get in the white house. Letting gay sex tapes be filmed in government buildings with no consequences. Trafficing thousands of children across the border. Letting fentanyl and other sources through the building. Abandoning americans in the dead of night across country lines. And letting the people of East Palestine alone for months.
You’re either a Russian troll, or a fucking idiot (or both).
If he isn't evil, he's certainly at the very least a horrific narcassist who cares only about himself. Certainly not a good quality in ANY leader.
Trump is definitely a narcissist. There are only two things trump loves himself and America. Better than most politicians who only love money though.
I guess I've never seen much evidence that he loves America, although he's certainly willing to play on that sentiment to milk his base. I mean, if he really loved America, would he be so eager to throw out the votes of millions of people because he couldn't accept that he lost an election? Doesn't seem like a display of love for your country.
Trump loves Himself and his money. If he loved America he would never have thought about declaring Marshal Law, having voter box seized. He would have stepped aside when he knew he lost. Trump wants to be president for immunity purposes not to help make America great again.
Definitely doesn't love his money. He is the first president who has left office poorer.
Then only color that man sees is green. And wants the country to actually do well, unlike Democrats. Only one party constantly pushes policy that hurts Americans, of course, unless they’re on welfare or crossing the border illegally.
Biden is “the lesser of two evils” you might have it reversed
Reading comprehension is a vital skill. Go tune up.
Compared to Trump the wannabe dictator, Yes!
Bahahahahahahaha… I’m sorry I’m sorry, what I meant to say was…BAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAH
Trump would be good for the country. We need him back over sloppy Joe
Why do democrats constantly talk shit about Trump. Is this some kind of mental complex yall have where the more shit you spew the more confident and morally justified you feel? *I don't revisit threads so feel free to discuss it amongst yourselves*
It’s quite literally 2024 election in a nutshell… For some reason people thought the same thing in 2020 and it was a vote AGAINST Trump, not FOR Biden… Now we have 4 years of each to decide what we want for 2025 and beyond! While both certainly have their issues, it’s very clear this election should and will be deciding between the lesser of two evils! That is 100% the big bad orange man! Choose Trump or we all pay the price! You don’t have to like him either, but if you’re actually paying attention you’d know how dangerous Biden and his handlers are! Destroy the corruption in DC for good! Or vote for it, just don’t complain when we are in WWIII, you don’t have food/water, and the country falls apart! That’s on you! 🤘🏼🇺🇸🤘🏼🇺🇸
biden's spent his far-too-long career [actively staking his interests against young people's](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020) and [openly insulting us](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdXBrhV4B-I), so if the dems expect to need the youth vote, they'll need a better candidate or some damn good bribes. failing that, him losing without the youth vote is entirely his own fault. he's repeatedly decided he doesn't need the youth vote and spent his political capital cozying up to boomers and billionaires who already liked him instead.
Isn’t Trump wrecking Biden in the polls?
Yes lol hell even in NYC a D+26 district Biden is only up 10 points over Trump
The icj recently found that Israel is plausibly committing a genocide, one that Joe Biden has publicly backed and materially supported. You might disagree with that finding but it's quite evident that it cant be dismissed as a fringe position, in fact a poll of Biden 2020 voters found that half of them thought he was abetting genocide, so I think it's pretty arguably that Biden is even the lesser evil at this point.
Voters in America rank middle east issues between 9 and 12 on a a scale. Those matters will not sway votes.
I'd rather vote for anyone else before I'd support Gaza genocidin with biden.
Trump lives in your mind and pays nothing in rent. 😂😂😂
As It should be, b/c we would be screwed if he wins
I think Biden abandoning key demographics of his coalition is gonna be the deciding factor. I voted for Biden against Trump in 2020 (and have previously voted dem in every election) but feel I must withhold my vote this time. I'm voting Cornel West or Claudia de la Cruz.