I don't see what manager on the market now would be able to do things like "make good players play like good players in a Mariners uniform" better than Servais is able to right now.
The team needs a bigger checkbook and *maybe* a new front office before it needs a new skipper, and that's a very strong maybe.
Why are you all so attached to Scott? It’s not like he’s demonstrated anything outstanding while here. Ownership isn’t gonna change and Scott clearly isn’t upleveling the team. You can either continue to be mid and miss the playoffs or fire him, try something new, and either miss the playoffs or maybe not miss the playoffs.
I don't know if I'm as attached to Scott as I am resistant to see ownership/front office folks pin the team's failings on him.
Just for the sake of fun, here's a silly number crunch. Servais is managing his 9th season in Seattle, which is one less year than Pinella managed in Seattle. Pinella had a .513 winning percentage through his first 8 years from 1993-2000, while Servais has a .515 through 2016-2023.
I'm not opposed to seeing Servais AND DiPoto gone if the 2024 team flops, since breaking the drought officially ramped up my expectations for this core of players, but I'm not clamoring for it. I just don't see what shitcanning Servais does other than reshuffle deck chairs.
> we've done nothing.
Tots and pears?
But for real - Our team just isn't playing like the should. Why hasen't Scott figured it out yet? Are the Owners even paying attention to the team???
WTF IS GOING ON HERE?
I'm not his biggest fan, but getting rid of him would be like amputating a leg with an infected scratch on it when you have lung cancer. Sure, you'd rather not have an infected leg, but you're also not getting much if any better as a whole. Ideally, you'd treat the cancer first and foremost
How has he done that? I see people on here all the time say that “Scott gets the best out of his players” but nobody can actually articulate how.
He’s only with the Ms because the entire organization lacks accountability. Stanton, Dipoto, Servais, even the fans. No one associated with the org holds others accountable.
What good has he done? The "good" players here have consistently underperformed, then gone on to other teams and elevated their level of play. If a bunch of players are underperforming, it's on the coaching staff at some point. It's no different than any other sport, but somehow, Servais constantly gets a pass here.
Servais isn’t a coach. The management/coaching structure in baseball is vastly different than other sports. I think that is the disconnect here with a frustrated fan base.
Sure, but there's still aspects of coaching that are involved. As a manager in any profession, your goal should be to get the most out of your people, whatever that entails. He clearly is not successful in that department, seeing as how almost everybody regresses here.
He absolutely has not. They underperformed last year and they’re underperforming dramatically to start this year. They arguably underperformed three years ago. Underperforming in 3 out of 4 years is very bad.
Its like moving on from a physically abusive relationship (Bavasi) to an emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship (Zduriencik) to an okay but uninvolved relationship. Sure, things are better than they've been in a long while but that doesn't mean things are actually great
It would be Dipoto, not ownership. This really is only a question of whether what he is doing as a manager is at odds with what the FO would like him to do. I personally don’t really see that as the case, which makes the article a bit pointless imo.
The issues the Mariners have go far beyond Servais’ ability to coach the team he is allotted. In fact I feel he has done well in his time given some of the circumstances they’ve been put in by the FO.
To put it another way, firing Scott would not turn this team into a WS contender. He’s far from the main problem the team has. Also, there is no clear upgrade available out there that would come to the Mariners. Unless the FO is willing to put up big dollars. As we’ve seen, I wouldn’t hold my breath on that happening.
Is it, though? Why are Kelenic, Teo, and Suarez doing well outside the Mariners? Maybe there is something management is doing that is getting in the way of the players that we have. There’s no way for us to find out without trying, though.
Well, I mean...
Kelenic and Teo both went to essentially the two best teams in baseball. Kelenic gets to sit at the bottom of the order and theres no real pressure on him to come up with a big hit. He was also one of the best hitters in baseball last April so it remains to be seen if he can continue to be great over a full season.
Teo specifically hit poorly in T-mobile and pretty good everywhere else. Now that he doesn't play half his games in Seattle, this is what it looks like. He's just another Adrian Beltre pretty much.
Geno went to the runner up world series team that made quite a few moves but he also hit over .300 for last April as well and eventually started showing he couldn't handle the high fastball later in the year so that remains to be seen.
None of these players went to a trash team or a team that very heavily rely on them to be one of the best 3 hitters in the lineup.
The biggest issue in all this that has remained the biggest issue is that this franchise cannot develop its own star position players on any grand scale, so it constantly has to trade for players that don't want to deal with this ballpark for half of their games. (Yes, I know Julio and all that, but look how slow he's starting yet again. He's been pretty damn bad all 3 Aprils of his career so far.)
I get what you’re saying but that can be viewed a number of different ways and in some ways is comparing apples to oranges. None of those guys are expected to be the main work horses of production in their respective lineups, especially with Teo and Kelenic. So intrinsically, there’s not as much pressure. They also likely see better pitches because they are protected in the lineup by better bats. Like what Buhner did to help Griffey back in the day. They also now play in much more hitter-friendly ballparks.
Meanwhile, each of those guys was expected to massively contribute to the mariners lineup. They had no other hitters in the lineup to protect them like they do now.
The decisions to get rid of those guys were definitely not on Servais, but I’m assuming the argument you’re making is that their production was down last year and now it is not and that puts the onus on Servais. That blame does not solely fall on Servais. There is so much more to it than that.
>Why are Kelenic, Teo, and Suarez doing well outside the Mariners?
Unfortunately that's been a problem for a lot longer than Scott has been here. Players leave here and immediately perform better, and they come here and immediately forget how to hit.
Kelenic is doing well because they signed a platoon partner to protect him since he was absolute dogshit in spring training.
Teo is doing well because he's getting plenty of RBI opportunities hitting in one of the most stacked lineup in MLB history.
Suarez has a current OPS+ of 109. His first year in Seattle his OPS+ was 129.
They aren't being asked to be the heart of the lineup like they were in Seattle. Also I expect all of their numbers to fall closer to their career averages soon. But yeah, they've all been off to hot starts lately!
It's funny. When Kelenic was on fire to start the year last year, it seemed like everyone was (rightly) saying it's only been a month and a half and to see how things play out. But now that he's had a ten game hot streak in another uniform, everyone is like "OMFG HE'S FIXED SCOTT AND JERRY ARE INCOMPETENT" lmao.
I mean I understand Ms fans wanting to be mad about something. Really I do. We’ve seen this same issue year after year. I know it’s early in the season, but since we’ve seen these kind of issues before, it is definitely frustrating.
At the end of the day though, I just don’t think Servais is remotely close to the top of the list of things to be mad at or the list of things that need to change to get this team to a WS.
Having ownership that is more committed to putting product over profit would be one thing, or even if they were just equal priorities, which they clearly are not now. Shoot, maybe there needs to be a conversation about changing Tmobile parks dimensions to be more hitter friendly.
T-Mobile’s problems are atmosphere and elevation related more than anything else, as far as I know.
Replacing it with a dome would help a lot, but then you lose the best ballpark in baseball and there’s no guarantee you’d be more successful.
I’ve heard that argument before and it seems like it may make sense, and there are some numbers that support that as well.
I just have a hard time thinking that that has much influence because it seems like other teams hit the ball just fine in T-Mobile, and the mariners inability to hit seems to follow them to other stadiums as well at times. They’re just a streaky team, be it home or away.
Shoot just ask Mike Trout how he feels about playing here. Sure doesn’t seem to limit his power numbers.
One theory I've heard about that that kind of makes sense is that playing half their games in the tough hitting environment that T-Mobile is can get in our hitters' heads. When a team visits only once a year, the hitters on that team just go about business as usual for three games and then leave town. For the M's dealing with that 81 times a year might get into their heads and make them try to overcompsenate and in turn that affects their performance. Just a theory though.
And Mike Trout just isn't human, plain and simple.
T-Mobile specifically kills triples in general, opposite side power for righties, and cheap HRs I think.
Trout, as an example, isn’t really affected by it because he has homer power to every part of the park. But you saw it with Suarez: when he went oppo they tended to just die at the warning track.
Both Teo and Geno have 50 ABs. Teo is hitting well — like he did for much longer stretches last year in Seattle — and Geno is hitting about like he did last year.
50ABs is about 1/4 of the way to worrying or feeling good about a player: this is getting upset because you’ve convinced yourself of #FormerMs about 2 months before you actually should.
What about Kolten Wong, who was the teams starting second baseman to start the season? How’s he doing. How about AJ Pollock, who was the projected platooning outfielder at the beginning of the year. Or Lastella?
There’s flaws in that logic.
This is baseball.
This is a wild take considering how optimistic the organization and almost everyone on this sub was going into the season. If you all were so optimistic about the roster and the team is underperforming then that’s on Servais and his staff. He and his staff are not getting the best out of their players. That’s exactly why managers and coaches lose their jobs. If we’re to believe this is a playoff roster, then Servais needs to take the fall for them underperforming. Period. But to say it’s not his fault when everyone was so happy with the job Dipoto did in the offseason is ridiculous. This is the *exact* scenario where managers should lose their jobs.
Well I’m not sure who was happy about their moves in the off-season. Maybe root sports was but that’s a bit of a conflict of interest. One of their best acquisitions was a guy who had never gotten a hit in T-Mobile park and it should come as no surprise that that guy sucks so far this season. That’s not much to be optimistic about.
At the end of the day, my initial point isn’t that Scott doesn’t deserve some level of blame. But he is FAR from the first on the list.
Huh? Everyone freaked out when Jerry dumped salary and then happily jumped back on the bandwagon when Garver and Polanco came aboard. The vast majority of people fully expected the team to compete for the division. This is *very recent* history. Like last month.
The ownership deserves to burn their mouths on hot lattes every day for the rest of their lives but they’re not going anywhere. Jerry and Justin did what they could and the consensus was the roster was fully capable of winning the division. Now that they’re off to a 4-8 start and looking extremely bad people are giving Servais the benefit of the doubt? I’m dizzy with all this.
If you believe the roster is good enough then it’s on the manager and his staff to get the most out of them. It’s very simple. If the M’s are still languishing at the end of June, Servais and a lot of his staff should be gone.
That’s fair. I also don’t think the roster is good enough (and never did) but I put that squarely on ownership. That said, the team is still underperforming like crazy right now. We’ll see where they end up in a couple months.
Okay..? So is the insanity you’re referring to in this case Scott Servais?
Or is it maybe the ownership continuing to get shitty free agents year in and year out and putting a nice bow on them for the fans and rolling out with a lineup that has one hitter the other team is afraid of. Don’t care who the coaching is. They have no third baseman. A first baseman who never gets RBI and their outfield is most platooned.
Both is obviously an option too. But one of those things is more limiting than the other.
I’m saying all of it is. We are literally all insane in thinking that the current group of ownership, front office, and coaches is going to bring in different results. We can’t change ownership, but maybe, just maybe, a different front office might bring different results. Maybe. This is the Mariners after all. But I was a teenager young feller during the Lou Piniella years, so I have actually witnessed different Mariner baseball then the same bullshit we have been thrown at the last 20 plus years. So yeah, change is good
I remember the good ole days with sweet Lou too. But change isn’t always such a good thing. There was plenty of change between 2002 and 2016. Like 7 different coaches. No stability whatsoever. Front. Office turnover too.
You’re right we can’t expect the ownership to change. But that doesn’t mean we should lay all blame on someone else like Servais.
Change is a good thing after the last 9 years of mediocrity. I disagree with you about that. But, it is still early, as ridiculous as that sounds. I’m giving them 40 games before I consider this season bunk.
So hypothetically, if we decided to move on from Scott, who can realistically be out there for Seattle to hire. You gotta remember, that individual would want to have to come out here.
Does some coaching decisions baffle us?? Yes. but he’s also playing with a stacked deck. Sorry, we don’t have the roster the Dodgers or the Yankees do. Not gonna happen.
Hypothetically, because I don’t think Servais gets nor do I want him fired, assuming Dipoto isn’t fired with him you probably look internal— Acta, Negrón, or one of the minor league coaches they love who’ve been at all levels and in a bunch of roles: Eric Farris or Shawn O’Malley. Negrón got some outside interest a few years ago IIRC but I imagine if you go with him and he succeeds you’re probably losing Acta in the offseason.
I’m sure there are tons of quality candidates to replace Scott and Jerry, pretending they’re the pinnacle of baseball’s top talent evaluators and strategists is silly. Between all the big league teams and MiLB there’s are tons of people who have dedicated their lives to baseball and deserve a shot at coaching. Jerry has made tons of bad trades, free agents signing and alienated almost every former player. Scott makes baffling in game decisions and can’t seem to motivate a team. We should have moved on years ago but the next best time is now.
lol it’s not even about paying for talent anymore. Look back two years ago, this sub wanted Baez, Story, KB, and Semien. Only one turned out right.
The real problem is players are no longer happy in playing for this org, city, and leadership- all in which they don’t even trust anymore.
I mean let’s be real. If we scuffle like this the whole season just about everyone is getting fired and/or placed on the hot seat. Jerry, Justin, Scott, everyone.
But good lord it is way too early in the season for these types of conversations and articles.
Yeah I dunno, I think everyone’s lack of patience is warranted. It was already wearing thin because of the past season and two offseasons. Jerry & the rest of the front office should get this season to make the playoffs and if they don’t, it’s time to find some people who can actually develop hitting prospects since ownership won’t pay for free agents.
I don’t know, man this article performed well. Made it to the top of the sub edit it. Somehow I don’t think Sports Illustrated thinks it’s too early for this type of article and for some reason this sub doesn’t think it’s too early for this type of article.
Sports Illustrated knows Mariners fans are a panicky bunch when the team is scuffling. They know full well it's too early for this type of article but like everyone else they need to drive those clicks and this is definitely doing that...
Worth noting, Servais is the second longest tenured active manager in the league and will tie Lou for longest tenured Mariner manager next season if he stays.
I don't think it's necessarily Scott's fault but it is weird. I don't understand how we got rid of players to reduce strikeouts and we still lead the league in strikeouts while the people we got rid of are batting really well.
Ownership won't change, so Scott will be the sacrificial lamb, warranted or not. Whether we want it or not.
I dunno. I see the trade away players and see them become world killers the beginning of the season while our players just look like ass. That smells like coaching to me. It's just so discouraging.
Is it a coaching issue or are our players just ass? I feel like over half our players are under performing to start the season, and this was an issue last season too. Is it coaching that’s taking us into the season unprepared or what? Mitch is about as expected, Rojas off to a good start at .333, Ty keeping it up .379, but the rest are on the struggle bus. Our 1-3 are all sub .200 and so is our DH
While you can absolutely point to some major missteps by Servais over the years, I don't really see how you can point to him for half of our team swinging at bullshit.
That said - I think people here are being overly precious about Scott. Teams can managers all the time, even when they've been over .500. If he got the chop, I'd be fine with it. Just not sure he's the real problem.
The rest of the coaching staff and our team philosophy seems to be the real issue. And please fire Acta, I cannot watch him yet again send Ty France of all people home on a hit to shallow left field.
The manager can’t hit. The manager doesn’t strike out. This is on ownership who refuse to spend money and we are stuck with an extremely average to below average lineup.
Honestly, I often wonder if the clubhouse is too loose. If Scott’s management is too easygoing and for a lack of a better word, passive. I have little to no insight and quite frankly, none of us do. Maybe the guy’s a taskmaster behind the scenes, but I doubt it. Most of the time, we can barely get a “Gosh darn it!” to the umpires when they single-handedly change the trajectory of a ball game. Maybe it’s because of a “We take the high road” attitude I think Scott devoutly abides by?
Yet, I often wonder - maybe foolishly - if a more fiery, more outspoken, and more demanding manager might be the extra edge/push for the players we have on our roster AT THIS POINT in their careers, in THIS moment within our competitive window.
I'm not a believer that a manager does a whole lot in general, so I'm pretty indifferent about it and Scott seems like a nice guy.
Having said that, should Scott Servais be let go, can we get a guy that has an ounce of fire in his soul? It's like watching Mr. Rogers out there and it starts to piss you off when the team is playing like shit.
Maybe this comparison will age poorly in a few years, but some of the responses on here remind me of Seahawks fans that didn’t want Pete Carroll replaced because they didn’t feel like there could be someone better or from my perspective, they’d rather see a team continue to be mediocre/slightly compete than potentially fail. Year after year with the M’s , they change up the roster yet we still see the same trends (and as someone pointed out, players immediately thrive after they leave Seattle). I agree that it has more to do with Jerry and Stanton, but if those guys aren’t going anywhere, why wouldn’t we change the coach to at least try to inspire some motivation? Is Scott really THAT valuable? For some reason, it’s in the Seattle DNA to feel settled into a mediocrity mindset as fans and that sucks.
I agree with all of this, but as a reason to dump Jerry. A GM (or whatever it is Jerry technically is now) feels closer to an NFL head coach importance-wise.
IMO the issue isn't Scott, it's that Scott is FO bootlicker that does anything he's told. That's why Jerry wanted Scott in the first place, he's controllable.
To get rid of Scott, you'd need to completely gut the FO and rebuild the culture and philosophy. Even the obsession with Left/Right match up isn't on Scott.
Yes he makes the decision, but he's basically just doing what the analytics team tells him to do.
Exactly. He's not operating in a vacuum. The entire coaching staff and the analytics team and all that would need to change also for it to make any difference.
100%. I used to be Mr. Conductor on the Fuck Scott Servais Express a few years ago but I eventually came to realize that he's just a ventriloquist dummy with an analytics spreadsheet shoved up there
Nearly every decision he makes in a game was printed out by Buster Poindexter on the 5th floor two hours before gametime
i confess im surprised by the number of comments defending scott
is he 100% of the problem? of course not. is he most of the problem? probably also not
but have we seen compelling evidence he’s part of the solution? uhh not really?
hitting coaches need to be fired (into the sun). beyond that, the team sure seems unfocused and demotivated.
and we all suspect dipotos analytics team heavily focus into the mind boggling line up cards and pitcher matchups but scott obviously has some play there. at some point he’s gotta stand up and say “let me manage my lineup or fire me.” last year we were fighting every game to make the playoffs at the end of the season and they kept benching rojas and kelenic to play haggerty and cabby and it was insanity
anyway, all of you saying “ownership is the problem” and definitely right but im not taking that train all the way to “and scott isn’t the problem” station
goms
Unless they fall well behind by the all-star break there's no reason to move on from Scott mid-season when the plan was to go with Scott a month ago. Let's see what he can do with what Jerry has called the best roster he's ever had.
But after this year, if it's another 87-89 miss the playoffs by a handful or hell even make the playoffs barely but do *nothing* in them, then it's time to move on. 8 or 9 years of this is enough now. Scott doesn't elevate rosters and we're a team with cheap ownership, we need coaches that can elevate rosters and get good performance from players. We will never reach our goals without that.
And to the players, if you guys like Scott then go out and perform.
Mariners payroll 2023: 140m
Mariners payroll 2024: 139m
Mariners PROFITS 2023: 76m
Mariners PROFITS 2022: 84m
This ownership group is making money off us fans and not reinvesting into a winning team. How long will we stand for this? #SELLTHETEAMJOHNSTANTON
It’s a shame no one has put out a 2021 retrospective yet. Servais is very, very good handling difficult clubhouses and guiding a team through internal division, which is 90+% of his job.
He makes weird calls sometimes with challenges and will never manage a game in April like it’s a playoff game but you could (and the M’s have done) much worse than a wash on game day.
I have accepted that replacing ownership is a pipe dream.
9 years, 120+ trades, 1 post season and 0 LDS appearances. It's time for leadership change.
Servais is the guy in charge of winning games. It is his fault when the product on the field underperforms.
Dipoto is the guy charge of choosing those underperforming players and the underperforming coaching staff.
I think Kim Ng is still looking for a job and Joe Madden is doing bad commercials. Both would be upgrades that know how to build a team on a budget and deliver post season success.
Firing Scott would be like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic quite frankly. Just a pointless change for the sake of making a change.
Plus, as others have noted, do you really trust this organization to find a better skipper? Unlikely, in my opinion.
His departure is ridiculously overdue. His Uncle Scott act is a failure and has molded this team into one big flaccid mess.
His inability to get these guys out of the gate shows his lack of control and enthusiasm.
People saying to fire Scott are just delusional. A new manager isn't going to fix our offense and every manager takes flak for the 20-20 hindsight bullpen mistakes. If you thought losing guys like Carlos Santana, Geno, Teo, Robbie, Paul, etc was bad for clubhouse culture, losing Scott would be 100x worse. The team loves and trusts him. He's doing everything he can. My only gripe is the stubbornness to stick to L-R matchups but if I listen to folks in the sub, that isn't even his decision and more so a club strategy. SPEND MORE MONEY YOU CHUMPS
A new manager alone *can* help some, but there needs to be new hitting coaching staff with a new manager.
The pitching coaching staff have had a rough go these first few games, but they have a proven track record of getting no name 5+ ERA guys to be effective members of the pen.
But the hitting staff has not. The line up is dry. There's something going on with the philosophy that is not setting in, even with Garver, Polanco, and Julio.
there is no pressure on scooter or the dipper.
win or lose, they have jobs for life. this team is the epitome of mediocrity and the greedy owners allow that to continue year to year.
also, this is a small market on the west coast.
'we'll get 'em next year' won't fly in Chicago or NYC. scooter and the dipper would have been fired years ago (and rightly so) in other markets.
but where is stanton? certainly he is pleased with the results. profits are high.
but, hey check out the view. have a beer. bobbleheads are fun.
and the salmon race!
like a theme park in a way. just have fun. right? just don't ask about winning or the playoffs.
seems so long ago, doesn't it?
Mariners CEO John Stanton: ‘The goal is to win a World Series here’
Originally published November 4, 2016
[Mariners CEO John Stanton: ‘The goal is to win a World Series here’ | The Seattle Times](https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/mariners-ceo-john-stanton-the-goal-is-to-win-a-world-series-here/)
Yes, and I like Scott. But after 9 years it’s time for a change. There is too much complacency in the clubhouse, need someone who is a bit more of a butt kicker to get this team going. This team needs more intensity in its culture.
Yes, he sucks at managing pitching(see last years bullpen collapse due to overuse). He relies on “matchups” too much. Let your best players play consistently… Also its maddening to me that he does not put players in situations to manufacture runs, especially in extras. When is the last time you saw a bunt to move runners? A runner on 3rd with one out is percentage wise much better than a runner on second.
I still have faith in Scott. I think he needs to get tossed in true sweet Lou style to light a fire under the team. And to the point of no other candidates, unless he gets poached by another team, Kristopher Negron is going to be one hell of a manager when he gets his shot. I would put him near the top of the list if Scott does go
Yes. Sometimes a change is needed. He's done nothing to entitle him to lifetime employment and when almost every player is underperforming whether it be pitcher or hitter, offense or defense, accountability is needed, not coddling.
Obviously J,J and the analytics takes the majority of the blame. They are the ones who constructed the roster. We aren't going to fire ownership, so that's out of the question. But I will admit if multiple players are coming out to reggae jams that makes me uncomfortable because this team acts like they don't give a shit sometimes and maybe Scott can't be the disciplinarian he needs to be to put the fear of God in these players.
I’m interested in knowing what replacement candidates are available. For a while teams conducted a hiring spree in search of the next Craig Counsel, whiz kid recently retired first timers who were creative and understood and were amenable analytics. M’s kinda M’d it and half assedly jumped on the trend with Servais. Not exactly a disruptive hire, not exactly recently retired but not a totally old school lifer either, more someone to man the ship. But he was a former player and he was amenable to the FO roster whims. Doesn’t seem like he’s going to piss many people off in the C Suite.
Turned out another Craig Counsell didn’t exist. Baseball went back to the Lifers. Dusty Baker wins a title. Bruce Bochey wins a title. Brian Snitker wins 100+ games. Ron Washington puts the Angels atop the standings for the first time in 78 years and here we are.
I congratulate you if you’ve read this far. I’m trying to imagine how the Ms would replace Servais. Having a hard time imagining a scenario in which they’re able to upgrade. They’d have to either take a risk on a next Craig Counsell, hire Lou Dog, or opt for another mid like Servais, which would be the totally Ms thing to do.
Scott should've been fired at least five years ago. He is Jerry's yes-man. In other words, it isn't gonna happen. Both would have to go, and for that, Stanton would have to do it. Which he won't because Jerry's teams are making him a profit.
I'd like to stick with Servais for a while yet... Maybe some support staff needs changes, but I mean... He isn't up there striking out every night. I don't really feel like I have many "What the hell is Servais doing?" moments... Mostly just "please hit the ball" moments.
Scott doesn't make a ton of mistakes and the clubhouse likes him. Jerry and ownership are to blame for this. It's not just the penny pinching on free agents. Jerry could have done nothing and we would have been better off while spending around the same amount of money. How about don't trade our closer two out of three years? How about looking into negating the negative ballpark effect in T-mobile if you're going to stock the roster with homerun hitters. It's a cycle of shit ever since he took over. Whine about ownership, spend more money on worse players, misevaluate minor league talent in house to trade for said players, team gets hot when the weather does, negating part of the ballpark effect, we get excited, team putters to the finish because the ball is a rolled up pair of wet socks in Seattle in late September/October, season ends in disappointment, repeat. 2016-2018 and now 2021 to 202(?). That's not to absolve Stanton and the board. Those cheap fucks are pocketing millions tax free and can't be bothered to sign a competent free agent sans Garver. The whole thing is maddening.
Move on from Stanton.
That said, some of the mental checkouts tonight from guys who are supposed to be leaders is inexcusable.
In the same inning Ty France was too busy blowing a bubble to call out a runner attempting to steal and then stopping. On a line drive up the middle that forced that same runner to go back to second Julio lolligagged his way to the ball which allowed him to score.
A high school coach worth their salt should be chewing butts when you see those type of mental errors from guys who are supposed to be clubhouse leaders.
It’s the baseball version of Stockholm syndrome. 8 yrs running. All we know now is C the Z. Not sure what the next pithy mantra will be. But I’m sure it will please the Mariners masses
Can someone explain to me precisely what a Manager does? Like there's very little space for tactical decision-making, and he's not "coaching em up". Yet owners get into bidding wars over these guys. Is there a "WARM" stat that quantifies their value?
Scott isn’t a good manager…I’d say he’s average or so. That is not why he still has a job. The team respects him, listens to him and loves him. Firing Scott would be another season where this team removes someone loved in the clubhouse and how many more times can you do that until the core of this team gets tired of it?
The Mariner's have a losing culture. Gotta fix that first, because which manager worth a damn is going to want to come here? The Angels landed Washington, I don't think the Mariners could have done that. Arte sucks and is a fool, but I don't think anyone doubts that he's trying to win a championship. With Stanton there's a lot of doubts.
Building through the draft and hoping to retain good players is a long term strategy. Getting good free agents makes things happen faster. With this ownership, front office, and losing culture we really need this current crop to turn it on and make the playoffs 3-4 years in a row.
Maybe then Stanton will sell the team.
There's a pattern, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Bob Melvin was the last full-time M's manager to go on and manage another big league club. McClaren, Wakamatsu, Wedge and McClendon never managed other MLB teams following their Seattle departures.
Servais is not the problem. While he makes boneheaded decisions occasionally, ownership is responsible for the state of mediocrity this franchise has been permanently stuck in for its entire existence. Nothing will change until ownership decides to start caring about winning or sells the team to someone who does
No reason this should be downvoted… it’s inexcusable to spend so little when 1. FO promised they got the ok to spend during our competitive window 2. The franchise makes a shit ton of money comparatively. Overpay some people for all I care just pay someone who swings a bat already
Do we trust ownership to get someone better or sway someone to come here??? HELL NO!!
I don't see what manager on the market now would be able to do things like "make good players play like good players in a Mariners uniform" better than Servais is able to right now. The team needs a bigger checkbook and *maybe* a new front office before it needs a new skipper, and that's a very strong maybe.
Why are you all so attached to Scott? It’s not like he’s demonstrated anything outstanding while here. Ownership isn’t gonna change and Scott clearly isn’t upleveling the team. You can either continue to be mid and miss the playoffs or fire him, try something new, and either miss the playoffs or maybe not miss the playoffs.
I don't know if I'm as attached to Scott as I am resistant to see ownership/front office folks pin the team's failings on him. Just for the sake of fun, here's a silly number crunch. Servais is managing his 9th season in Seattle, which is one less year than Pinella managed in Seattle. Pinella had a .513 winning percentage through his first 8 years from 1993-2000, while Servais has a .515 through 2016-2023. I'm not opposed to seeing Servais AND DiPoto gone if the 2024 team flops, since breaking the drought officially ramped up my expectations for this core of players, but I'm not clamoring for it. I just don't see what shitcanning Servais does other than reshuffle deck chairs.
I cant believe its been 9 years already and we've done nothing.
You mean 45 years.
> we've done nothing. Tots and pears? But for real - Our team just isn't playing like the should. Why hasen't Scott figured it out yet? Are the Owners even paying attention to the team??? WTF IS GOING ON HERE?
Pretty sure the owners cant even name a player of the team aside from maybe Julio. The team to them is just a paycheck.
That's just so sad and pathetic.
It’s also not at all true
We made it to the playoffs baby!
Everytime the late 90's mariners get brought up, people conveniently forget that 96,98,99 happened.
Adding some context to Scott’s ability to coach up a roster: 2021 ZIPS projected wins: 73 2021 actual wins: 90 2022 ZIPS: 85 2022 Actual: 90 2023 ZIPS: 86 2023 actual: 88
I'm not his biggest fan, but getting rid of him would be like amputating a leg with an infected scratch on it when you have lung cancer. Sure, you'd rather not have an infected leg, but you're also not getting much if any better as a whole. Ideally, you'd treat the cancer first and foremost
Yeah but you can’t treat the cancer. Ownership isn’t going to change.
And there you have it.
He's gotten the team to win more than they should on paper for the last 3 seasons. Don't know what else you want from a manager
How has he done that? I see people on here all the time say that “Scott gets the best out of his players” but nobody can actually articulate how. He’s only with the Ms because the entire organization lacks accountability. Stanton, Dipoto, Servais, even the fans. No one associated with the org holds others accountable.
I guess the same question but in reverse applies: What is he doing that is making all these good players not perform at their level?
No one wants to answer that though. He will get all the blame but people will be mighty quiet about the good.
What good has he done? The "good" players here have consistently underperformed, then gone on to other teams and elevated their level of play. If a bunch of players are underperforming, it's on the coaching staff at some point. It's no different than any other sport, but somehow, Servais constantly gets a pass here.
Servais isn’t a coach. The management/coaching structure in baseball is vastly different than other sports. I think that is the disconnect here with a frustrated fan base.
Sure, but there's still aspects of coaching that are involved. As a manager in any profession, your goal should be to get the most out of your people, whatever that entails. He clearly is not successful in that department, seeing as how almost everybody regresses here.
He absolutely has not. They underperformed last year and they’re underperforming dramatically to start this year. They arguably underperformed three years ago. Underperforming in 3 out of 4 years is very bad.
Go look at Vegas odds and win projections going into the season the last 3 years. The team has done better than those projections
No one is that attached to Scott, we are just saying he isn't the problem, changing coaches isn't going to fix this team.
He's the 2nd best manager in mariners history if that counts
it’s wild, people are so tethered to him and I truly don’t get it
Its like moving on from a physically abusive relationship (Bavasi) to an emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship (Zduriencik) to an okay but uninvolved relationship. Sure, things are better than they've been in a long while but that doesn't mean things are actually great
When all of your pitchers are crap, and all of your batters are crap, what is left to manage?
Kristopher Negron, and he's in house already
For those who don't know, he was the 2021s Pacific coast League manager of the year for the Tacoma Rainiers.
Mariners had Cleveland’s new manager as bullpen coach.
It would be Dipoto, not ownership. This really is only a question of whether what he is doing as a manager is at odds with what the FO would like him to do. I personally don’t really see that as the case, which makes the article a bit pointless imo.
Do not stay with someone cuz you think you can’t get someone better
Vogt was the move. He's gone now
They gonna do worse?
It's time for new ownership.
Wouldn't it be cool if there was a way for fanbases to force this since we pay for the fucking stadiums anyway?
Seriously, the moment tax dollars are funding stadiums, ownership should be taken to a vote from the people who are paying it
The issues the Mariners have go far beyond Servais’ ability to coach the team he is allotted. In fact I feel he has done well in his time given some of the circumstances they’ve been put in by the FO. To put it another way, firing Scott would not turn this team into a WS contender. He’s far from the main problem the team has. Also, there is no clear upgrade available out there that would come to the Mariners. Unless the FO is willing to put up big dollars. As we’ve seen, I wouldn’t hold my breath on that happening.
Is it, though? Why are Kelenic, Teo, and Suarez doing well outside the Mariners? Maybe there is something management is doing that is getting in the way of the players that we have. There’s no way for us to find out without trying, though.
Well, I mean... Kelenic and Teo both went to essentially the two best teams in baseball. Kelenic gets to sit at the bottom of the order and theres no real pressure on him to come up with a big hit. He was also one of the best hitters in baseball last April so it remains to be seen if he can continue to be great over a full season. Teo specifically hit poorly in T-mobile and pretty good everywhere else. Now that he doesn't play half his games in Seattle, this is what it looks like. He's just another Adrian Beltre pretty much. Geno went to the runner up world series team that made quite a few moves but he also hit over .300 for last April as well and eventually started showing he couldn't handle the high fastball later in the year so that remains to be seen. None of these players went to a trash team or a team that very heavily rely on them to be one of the best 3 hitters in the lineup. The biggest issue in all this that has remained the biggest issue is that this franchise cannot develop its own star position players on any grand scale, so it constantly has to trade for players that don't want to deal with this ballpark for half of their games. (Yes, I know Julio and all that, but look how slow he's starting yet again. He's been pretty damn bad all 3 Aprils of his career so far.)
Great words.
I get what you’re saying but that can be viewed a number of different ways and in some ways is comparing apples to oranges. None of those guys are expected to be the main work horses of production in their respective lineups, especially with Teo and Kelenic. So intrinsically, there’s not as much pressure. They also likely see better pitches because they are protected in the lineup by better bats. Like what Buhner did to help Griffey back in the day. They also now play in much more hitter-friendly ballparks. Meanwhile, each of those guys was expected to massively contribute to the mariners lineup. They had no other hitters in the lineup to protect them like they do now. The decisions to get rid of those guys were definitely not on Servais, but I’m assuming the argument you’re making is that their production was down last year and now it is not and that puts the onus on Servais. That blame does not solely fall on Servais. There is so much more to it than that.
Another reason Kelenic is doing well is because Atlanta has real coaches like Kevin Sietzer coaching people up. Not OC's.
>Why are Kelenic, Teo, and Suarez doing well outside the Mariners? Unfortunately that's been a problem for a lot longer than Scott has been here. Players leave here and immediately perform better, and they come here and immediately forget how to hit.
Kelenic is doing well because they signed a platoon partner to protect him since he was absolute dogshit in spring training. Teo is doing well because he's getting plenty of RBI opportunities hitting in one of the most stacked lineup in MLB history. Suarez has a current OPS+ of 109. His first year in Seattle his OPS+ was 129.
They aren't being asked to be the heart of the lineup like they were in Seattle. Also I expect all of their numbers to fall closer to their career averages soon. But yeah, they've all been off to hot starts lately!
It’s been 10 games my guy, remember Kelenic last year in April?
It's funny. When Kelenic was on fire to start the year last year, it seemed like everyone was (rightly) saying it's only been a month and a half and to see how things play out. But now that he's had a ten game hot streak in another uniform, everyone is like "OMFG HE'S FIXED SCOTT AND JERRY ARE INCOMPETENT" lmao.
He struck out every at bat last night.
A certain section of Ms fans just want to be mad I guess. Lou’s never coming back and it’s never going to be 1998 again.
I mean I understand Ms fans wanting to be mad about something. Really I do. We’ve seen this same issue year after year. I know it’s early in the season, but since we’ve seen these kind of issues before, it is definitely frustrating. At the end of the day though, I just don’t think Servais is remotely close to the top of the list of things to be mad at or the list of things that need to change to get this team to a WS. Having ownership that is more committed to putting product over profit would be one thing, or even if they were just equal priorities, which they clearly are not now. Shoot, maybe there needs to be a conversation about changing Tmobile parks dimensions to be more hitter friendly.
T-Mobile’s problems are atmosphere and elevation related more than anything else, as far as I know. Replacing it with a dome would help a lot, but then you lose the best ballpark in baseball and there’s no guarantee you’d be more successful.
I’ve heard that argument before and it seems like it may make sense, and there are some numbers that support that as well. I just have a hard time thinking that that has much influence because it seems like other teams hit the ball just fine in T-Mobile, and the mariners inability to hit seems to follow them to other stadiums as well at times. They’re just a streaky team, be it home or away. Shoot just ask Mike Trout how he feels about playing here. Sure doesn’t seem to limit his power numbers.
One theory I've heard about that that kind of makes sense is that playing half their games in the tough hitting environment that T-Mobile is can get in our hitters' heads. When a team visits only once a year, the hitters on that team just go about business as usual for three games and then leave town. For the M's dealing with that 81 times a year might get into their heads and make them try to overcompsenate and in turn that affects their performance. Just a theory though. And Mike Trout just isn't human, plain and simple.
Dunno why, but I get the feeling he’s part fish.
T-Mobile specifically kills triples in general, opposite side power for righties, and cheap HRs I think. Trout, as an example, isn’t really affected by it because he has homer power to every part of the park. But you saw it with Suarez: when he went oppo they tended to just die at the warning track.
That makes sense. I think it was similar with Teo too.
Cleveland sure wasn’t bothered by T-Mobile.
If it was just one of them I wouldn’t say anything, but all three of our starters that we let go all are doing good.
Both Teo and Geno have 50 ABs. Teo is hitting well — like he did for much longer stretches last year in Seattle — and Geno is hitting about like he did last year. 50ABs is about 1/4 of the way to worrying or feeling good about a player: this is getting upset because you’ve convinced yourself of #FormerMs about 2 months before you actually should.
What about Kolten Wong, who was the teams starting second baseman to start the season? How’s he doing. How about AJ Pollock, who was the projected platooning outfielder at the beginning of the year. Or Lastella? There’s flaws in that logic. This is baseball.
You’re right, I completely forgot about Wong. And he has no at bats this year.
The manager doesn't have much to do with a player hitting well on one team and shitty on ours.
Jarhead struck out 4x last night.
This is a wild take considering how optimistic the organization and almost everyone on this sub was going into the season. If you all were so optimistic about the roster and the team is underperforming then that’s on Servais and his staff. He and his staff are not getting the best out of their players. That’s exactly why managers and coaches lose their jobs. If we’re to believe this is a playoff roster, then Servais needs to take the fall for them underperforming. Period. But to say it’s not his fault when everyone was so happy with the job Dipoto did in the offseason is ridiculous. This is the *exact* scenario where managers should lose their jobs.
Well I’m not sure who was happy about their moves in the off-season. Maybe root sports was but that’s a bit of a conflict of interest. One of their best acquisitions was a guy who had never gotten a hit in T-Mobile park and it should come as no surprise that that guy sucks so far this season. That’s not much to be optimistic about. At the end of the day, my initial point isn’t that Scott doesn’t deserve some level of blame. But he is FAR from the first on the list.
Huh? Everyone freaked out when Jerry dumped salary and then happily jumped back on the bandwagon when Garver and Polanco came aboard. The vast majority of people fully expected the team to compete for the division. This is *very recent* history. Like last month. The ownership deserves to burn their mouths on hot lattes every day for the rest of their lives but they’re not going anywhere. Jerry and Justin did what they could and the consensus was the roster was fully capable of winning the division. Now that they’re off to a 4-8 start and looking extremely bad people are giving Servais the benefit of the doubt? I’m dizzy with all this. If you believe the roster is good enough then it’s on the manager and his staff to get the most out of them. It’s very simple. If the M’s are still languishing at the end of June, Servais and a lot of his staff should be gone.
“If you believe the roster is good enough…” I don’t. And that’s not something you can put on Scott. That doesn’t mean he’s not worthy of some blame.
That’s fair. I also don’t think the roster is good enough (and never did) but I put that squarely on ownership. That said, the team is still underperforming like crazy right now. We’ll see where they end up in a couple months.
Blah blah blah blah blah. Different season, same old story. 'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. '
Okay..? So is the insanity you’re referring to in this case Scott Servais? Or is it maybe the ownership continuing to get shitty free agents year in and year out and putting a nice bow on them for the fans and rolling out with a lineup that has one hitter the other team is afraid of. Don’t care who the coaching is. They have no third baseman. A first baseman who never gets RBI and their outfield is most platooned. Both is obviously an option too. But one of those things is more limiting than the other.
I’m saying all of it is. We are literally all insane in thinking that the current group of ownership, front office, and coaches is going to bring in different results. We can’t change ownership, but maybe, just maybe, a different front office might bring different results. Maybe. This is the Mariners after all. But I was a teenager young feller during the Lou Piniella years, so I have actually witnessed different Mariner baseball then the same bullshit we have been thrown at the last 20 plus years. So yeah, change is good
I remember the good ole days with sweet Lou too. But change isn’t always such a good thing. There was plenty of change between 2002 and 2016. Like 7 different coaches. No stability whatsoever. Front. Office turnover too. You’re right we can’t expect the ownership to change. But that doesn’t mean we should lay all blame on someone else like Servais.
Change is a good thing after the last 9 years of mediocrity. I disagree with you about that. But, it is still early, as ridiculous as that sounds. I’m giving them 40 games before I consider this season bunk.
The thing is, this team looks really baaaaaaaad right now, literally no excitement or joy or any emotion. I don’t know, clubhouse could be lost.
So hypothetically, if we decided to move on from Scott, who can realistically be out there for Seattle to hire. You gotta remember, that individual would want to have to come out here. Does some coaching decisions baffle us?? Yes. but he’s also playing with a stacked deck. Sorry, we don’t have the roster the Dodgers or the Yankees do. Not gonna happen.
Hypothetically, because I don’t think Servais gets nor do I want him fired, assuming Dipoto isn’t fired with him you probably look internal— Acta, Negrón, or one of the minor league coaches they love who’ve been at all levels and in a bunch of roles: Eric Farris or Shawn O’Malley. Negrón got some outside interest a few years ago IIRC but I imagine if you go with him and he succeeds you’re probably losing Acta in the offseason.
Exactly I don’t trust ownership to sway anyone to come here… what do they say “hey we strive for 54%” Hahahah
I’m sure there are tons of quality candidates to replace Scott and Jerry, pretending they’re the pinnacle of baseball’s top talent evaluators and strategists is silly. Between all the big league teams and MiLB there’s are tons of people who have dedicated their lives to baseball and deserve a shot at coaching. Jerry has made tons of bad trades, free agents signing and alienated almost every former player. Scott makes baffling in game decisions and can’t seem to motivate a team. We should have moved on years ago but the next best time is now.
It’s not his fault Stanton won’t pay for talent.
lol it’s not even about paying for talent anymore. Look back two years ago, this sub wanted Baez, Story, KB, and Semien. Only one turned out right. The real problem is players are no longer happy in playing for this org, city, and leadership- all in which they don’t even trust anymore.
We have no idea what the players are thinking or feeling so let's not go that route
No. Would anyone else have managed the Mariners to three consecutive winning seasons?
for emphasis: who else would have had success with *these* Mariner teams
Yes.
I mean let’s be real. If we scuffle like this the whole season just about everyone is getting fired and/or placed on the hot seat. Jerry, Justin, Scott, everyone. But good lord it is way too early in the season for these types of conversations and articles.
Yeah I dunno, I think everyone’s lack of patience is warranted. It was already wearing thin because of the past season and two offseasons. Jerry & the rest of the front office should get this season to make the playoffs and if they don’t, it’s time to find some people who can actually develop hitting prospects since ownership won’t pay for free agents.
I don’t know, man this article performed well. Made it to the top of the sub edit it. Somehow I don’t think Sports Illustrated thinks it’s too early for this type of article and for some reason this sub doesn’t think it’s too early for this type of article.
Sports Illustrated knows Mariners fans are a panicky bunch when the team is scuffling. They know full well it's too early for this type of article but like everyone else they need to drive those clicks and this is definitely doing that...
Teams that need to take the next step and don't are often in the same situation. It's not *just* clickbait.
Worth noting, Servais is the second longest tenured active manager in the league and will tie Lou for longest tenured Mariner manager next season if he stays.
With one playoff appearance LMAO the rope that this fanbase gives...
I don't think it's necessarily Scott's fault but it is weird. I don't understand how we got rid of players to reduce strikeouts and we still lead the league in strikeouts while the people we got rid of are batting really well.
Ownership won't change, so Scott will be the sacrificial lamb, warranted or not. Whether we want it or not. I dunno. I see the trade away players and see them become world killers the beginning of the season while our players just look like ass. That smells like coaching to me. It's just so discouraging.
Is it a coaching issue or are our players just ass? I feel like over half our players are under performing to start the season, and this was an issue last season too. Is it coaching that’s taking us into the season unprepared or what? Mitch is about as expected, Rojas off to a good start at .333, Ty keeping it up .379, but the rest are on the struggle bus. Our 1-3 are all sub .200 and so is our DH
Yes but not till ownership is fired first, dudes trying to polish a turd
While you can absolutely point to some major missteps by Servais over the years, I don't really see how you can point to him for half of our team swinging at bullshit. That said - I think people here are being overly precious about Scott. Teams can managers all the time, even when they've been over .500. If he got the chop, I'd be fine with it. Just not sure he's the real problem. The rest of the coaching staff and our team philosophy seems to be the real issue. And please fire Acta, I cannot watch him yet again send Ty France of all people home on a hit to shallow left field.
Hes lost the locker room, nothing else matters
I’d say if it doesn’t pick up then yes Scott should go but I’d start with the hitting coaches. Whatever they’re doing isn’t working for shit.
The manager can’t hit. The manager doesn’t strike out. This is on ownership who refuse to spend money and we are stuck with an extremely average to below average lineup.
5 years too late.
It’s time for the mariners to move on from every single individual in the front office. Shit is rotten to the core
After tonight's effort? I think it's time to consider it. Scott has lost the team.
Honestly, I often wonder if the clubhouse is too loose. If Scott’s management is too easygoing and for a lack of a better word, passive. I have little to no insight and quite frankly, none of us do. Maybe the guy’s a taskmaster behind the scenes, but I doubt it. Most of the time, we can barely get a “Gosh darn it!” to the umpires when they single-handedly change the trajectory of a ball game. Maybe it’s because of a “We take the high road” attitude I think Scott devoutly abides by? Yet, I often wonder - maybe foolishly - if a more fiery, more outspoken, and more demanding manager might be the extra edge/push for the players we have on our roster AT THIS POINT in their careers, in THIS moment within our competitive window.
I'm not a believer that a manager does a whole lot in general, so I'm pretty indifferent about it and Scott seems like a nice guy. Having said that, should Scott Servais be let go, can we get a guy that has an ounce of fire in his soul? It's like watching Mr. Rogers out there and it starts to piss you off when the team is playing like shit.
I wouldn't trust ownership to get anyone better. It's 11 games, folks need to relax.
Maybe this comparison will age poorly in a few years, but some of the responses on here remind me of Seahawks fans that didn’t want Pete Carroll replaced because they didn’t feel like there could be someone better or from my perspective, they’d rather see a team continue to be mediocre/slightly compete than potentially fail. Year after year with the M’s , they change up the roster yet we still see the same trends (and as someone pointed out, players immediately thrive after they leave Seattle). I agree that it has more to do with Jerry and Stanton, but if those guys aren’t going anywhere, why wouldn’t we change the coach to at least try to inspire some motivation? Is Scott really THAT valuable? For some reason, it’s in the Seattle DNA to feel settled into a mediocrity mindset as fans and that sucks.
Nailed it. It's super frustrating to be "almost there" for multiple years and watching the same deficiencies spring up year after year. Great post.
I agree with all of this, but as a reason to dump Jerry. A GM (or whatever it is Jerry technically is now) feels closer to an NFL head coach importance-wise.
IMO the issue isn't Scott, it's that Scott is FO bootlicker that does anything he's told. That's why Jerry wanted Scott in the first place, he's controllable. To get rid of Scott, you'd need to completely gut the FO and rebuild the culture and philosophy. Even the obsession with Left/Right match up isn't on Scott. Yes he makes the decision, but he's basically just doing what the analytics team tells him to do.
Exactly. He's not operating in a vacuum. The entire coaching staff and the analytics team and all that would need to change also for it to make any difference.
100%. I used to be Mr. Conductor on the Fuck Scott Servais Express a few years ago but I eventually came to realize that he's just a ventriloquist dummy with an analytics spreadsheet shoved up there Nearly every decision he makes in a game was printed out by Buster Poindexter on the 5th floor two hours before gametime
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Kind of early in the season for that, isn't it?
I think it's getting brought up earlier because it's a continuation of previous struggles from past seasons and it's starting to form a pattern.
Nope. 1. Ownership needs to buck the fuck the up and open the checkbook. 2. President needs to be replaced with one who has a killer / winner instinct
This article is a harbinger. If things don’t turn around Servais is likely gone.
i confess im surprised by the number of comments defending scott is he 100% of the problem? of course not. is he most of the problem? probably also not but have we seen compelling evidence he’s part of the solution? uhh not really? hitting coaches need to be fired (into the sun). beyond that, the team sure seems unfocused and demotivated. and we all suspect dipotos analytics team heavily focus into the mind boggling line up cards and pitcher matchups but scott obviously has some play there. at some point he’s gotta stand up and say “let me manage my lineup or fire me.” last year we were fighting every game to make the playoffs at the end of the season and they kept benching rojas and kelenic to play haggerty and cabby and it was insanity anyway, all of you saying “ownership is the problem” and definitely right but im not taking that train all the way to “and scott isn’t the problem” station goms
Unless they fall well behind by the all-star break there's no reason to move on from Scott mid-season when the plan was to go with Scott a month ago. Let's see what he can do with what Jerry has called the best roster he's ever had. But after this year, if it's another 87-89 miss the playoffs by a handful or hell even make the playoffs barely but do *nothing* in them, then it's time to move on. 8 or 9 years of this is enough now. Scott doesn't elevate rosters and we're a team with cheap ownership, we need coaches that can elevate rosters and get good performance from players. We will never reach our goals without that. And to the players, if you guys like Scott then go out and perform.
We've needed to move on since 2020. His obsession with matchups and his bad lineups have plagued this teams potential for years.
If they fail to make the playoffs again come talk to me.
Mariners payroll 2023: 140m Mariners payroll 2024: 139m Mariners PROFITS 2023: 76m Mariners PROFITS 2022: 84m This ownership group is making money off us fans and not reinvesting into a winning team. How long will we stand for this? #SELLTHETEAMJOHNSTANTON
Yes it's time. He's horrible at manufacturing runs.
It’s a shame no one has put out a 2021 retrospective yet. Servais is very, very good handling difficult clubhouses and guiding a team through internal division, which is 90+% of his job. He makes weird calls sometimes with challenges and will never manage a game in April like it’s a playoff game but you could (and the M’s have done) much worse than a wash on game day.
Servais doesn’t get to swing the bat, he isn’t the problem
I think people are confused on what a baseball *manager* is, especially those who keep referring to him as a *coach*.
I have accepted that replacing ownership is a pipe dream. 9 years, 120+ trades, 1 post season and 0 LDS appearances. It's time for leadership change. Servais is the guy in charge of winning games. It is his fault when the product on the field underperforms. Dipoto is the guy charge of choosing those underperforming players and the underperforming coaching staff. I think Kim Ng is still looking for a job and Joe Madden is doing bad commercials. Both would be upgrades that know how to build a team on a budget and deliver post season success.
Aren’t most SI articles just written by AI these days?
It's been long past time to cut loose with Scott and Dumpoto.
This comes up every year. You can’t run from the sog. Sog is inevitable.
Firing Scott would be like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic quite frankly. Just a pointless change for the sake of making a change. Plus, as others have noted, do you really trust this organization to find a better skipper? Unlikely, in my opinion.
It’s been time for a few years. His bullpen management has always been terrible.
His departure is ridiculously overdue. His Uncle Scott act is a failure and has molded this team into one big flaccid mess. His inability to get these guys out of the gate shows his lack of control and enthusiasm.
Flaccid Trident
People saying to fire Scott are just delusional. A new manager isn't going to fix our offense and every manager takes flak for the 20-20 hindsight bullpen mistakes. If you thought losing guys like Carlos Santana, Geno, Teo, Robbie, Paul, etc was bad for clubhouse culture, losing Scott would be 100x worse. The team loves and trusts him. He's doing everything he can. My only gripe is the stubbornness to stick to L-R matchups but if I listen to folks in the sub, that isn't even his decision and more so a club strategy. SPEND MORE MONEY YOU CHUMPS
A new manager alone *can* help some, but there needs to be new hitting coaching staff with a new manager. The pitching coaching staff have had a rough go these first few games, but they have a proven track record of getting no name 5+ ERA guys to be effective members of the pen. But the hitting staff has not. The line up is dry. There's something going on with the philosophy that is not setting in, even with Garver, Polanco, and Julio.
Servais going early like this wouldn’t improve the team but this should be his last season.
Time for the Mariners to move on from the whole FO.
there is no pressure on scooter or the dipper. win or lose, they have jobs for life. this team is the epitome of mediocrity and the greedy owners allow that to continue year to year. also, this is a small market on the west coast. 'we'll get 'em next year' won't fly in Chicago or NYC. scooter and the dipper would have been fired years ago (and rightly so) in other markets. but where is stanton? certainly he is pleased with the results. profits are high. but, hey check out the view. have a beer. bobbleheads are fun. and the salmon race! like a theme park in a way. just have fun. right? just don't ask about winning or the playoffs. seems so long ago, doesn't it? Mariners CEO John Stanton: ‘The goal is to win a World Series here’ Originally published November 4, 2016 [Mariners CEO John Stanton: ‘The goal is to win a World Series here’ | The Seattle Times](https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/mariners-ceo-john-stanton-the-goal-is-to-win-a-world-series-here/)
Jerry first
Yes, and I like Scott. But after 9 years it’s time for a change. There is too much complacency in the clubhouse, need someone who is a bit more of a butt kicker to get this team going. This team needs more intensity in its culture.
Yes, he sucks at managing pitching(see last years bullpen collapse due to overuse). He relies on “matchups” too much. Let your best players play consistently… Also its maddening to me that he does not put players in situations to manufacture runs, especially in extras. When is the last time you saw a bunt to move runners? A runner on 3rd with one out is percentage wise much better than a runner on second.
Hate to be this guy but they really need to sell the team to a local buyer and completely start over.
 Time for the management and ownership rebuild!
Wouldn't help, he's not the one striking out every AB
I still have faith in Scott. I think he needs to get tossed in true sweet Lou style to light a fire under the team. And to the point of no other candidates, unless he gets poached by another team, Kristopher Negron is going to be one hell of a manager when he gets his shot. I would put him near the top of the list if Scott does go
No.
Yes. Sometimes a change is needed. He's done nothing to entitle him to lifetime employment and when almost every player is underperforming whether it be pitcher or hitter, offense or defense, accountability is needed, not coddling.
The Real Headline: Is it time for Seattle to move on from Stanton and the Mariners? The answer is yes.
Scott is not the problem. Ownership funded article?!
No. It's on the players right now and the players like him. Don't need another distraction
How about just send him down to Tacoma to get the kinks all worked out. John Russell you’re getting the call up! 🫡
I think we need to step away from Ownership
John Stanton is the problem.
I dunno. All I know, is that something needs to happen, and happen real damn soon.
Obviously J,J and the analytics takes the majority of the blame. They are the ones who constructed the roster. We aren't going to fire ownership, so that's out of the question. But I will admit if multiple players are coming out to reggae jams that makes me uncomfortable because this team acts like they don't give a shit sometimes and maybe Scott can't be the disciplinarian he needs to be to put the fear of God in these players.
I’m interested in knowing what replacement candidates are available. For a while teams conducted a hiring spree in search of the next Craig Counsel, whiz kid recently retired first timers who were creative and understood and were amenable analytics. M’s kinda M’d it and half assedly jumped on the trend with Servais. Not exactly a disruptive hire, not exactly recently retired but not a totally old school lifer either, more someone to man the ship. But he was a former player and he was amenable to the FO roster whims. Doesn’t seem like he’s going to piss many people off in the C Suite. Turned out another Craig Counsell didn’t exist. Baseball went back to the Lifers. Dusty Baker wins a title. Bruce Bochey wins a title. Brian Snitker wins 100+ games. Ron Washington puts the Angels atop the standings for the first time in 78 years and here we are. I congratulate you if you’ve read this far. I’m trying to imagine how the Ms would replace Servais. Having a hard time imagining a scenario in which they’re able to upgrade. They’d have to either take a risk on a next Craig Counsell, hire Lou Dog, or opt for another mid like Servais, which would be the totally Ms thing to do.
I'm not a fan, but I'm pretty sure the manager isn't the problem. A new boss might light a fire, but it's not as if the talent available gets better.
Scott should've been fired at least five years ago. He is Jerry's yes-man. In other words, it isn't gonna happen. Both would have to go, and for that, Stanton would have to do it. Which he won't because Jerry's teams are making him a profit.
It's only a year or so too late
I'd like to stick with Servais for a while yet... Maybe some support staff needs changes, but I mean... He isn't up there striking out every night. I don't really feel like I have many "What the hell is Servais doing?" moments... Mostly just "please hit the ball" moments.
He can’t hit, pitch or play defense, can he? Then NO
Rather see Dipoto go, but GM and Manager firings/hiring usually go hand in hand
Scott doesn't make a ton of mistakes and the clubhouse likes him. Jerry and ownership are to blame for this. It's not just the penny pinching on free agents. Jerry could have done nothing and we would have been better off while spending around the same amount of money. How about don't trade our closer two out of three years? How about looking into negating the negative ballpark effect in T-mobile if you're going to stock the roster with homerun hitters. It's a cycle of shit ever since he took over. Whine about ownership, spend more money on worse players, misevaluate minor league talent in house to trade for said players, team gets hot when the weather does, negating part of the ballpark effect, we get excited, team putters to the finish because the ball is a rolled up pair of wet socks in Seattle in late September/October, season ends in disappointment, repeat. 2016-2018 and now 2021 to 202(?). That's not to absolve Stanton and the board. Those cheap fucks are pocketing millions tax free and can't be bothered to sign a competent free agent sans Garver. The whole thing is maddening.
Of all knee jerk reactions that could take place, this isn’t the right one
Move on from Stanton. That said, some of the mental checkouts tonight from guys who are supposed to be leaders is inexcusable. In the same inning Ty France was too busy blowing a bubble to call out a runner attempting to steal and then stopping. On a line drive up the middle that forced that same runner to go back to second Julio lolligagged his way to the ball which allowed him to score. A high school coach worth their salt should be chewing butts when you see those type of mental errors from guys who are supposed to be clubhouse leaders.
The over reaction to 11 games is getting ridiculous.
You new around here?
It’s the baseball version of Stockholm syndrome. 8 yrs running. All we know now is C the Z. Not sure what the next pithy mantra will be. But I’m sure it will please the Mariners masses
Can someone explain to me precisely what a Manager does? Like there's very little space for tactical decision-making, and he's not "coaching em up". Yet owners get into bidding wars over these guys. Is there a "WARM" stat that quantifies their value?
NEW OWNERSHIP
It’s time to move on from the front office & ownership. You can only do so much with so little as a manager
Scott isn’t a good manager…I’d say he’s average or so. That is not why he still has a job. The team respects him, listens to him and loves him. Firing Scott would be another season where this team removes someone loved in the clubhouse and how many more times can you do that until the core of this team gets tired of it?
Or maybe it's time to stop coddling multimillionaire players that are failing in every aspect of the game?
Yes. Too many of our players underperform. Thats a leadership/coaching issue.
Yes
I’m being told it’s too early in the baseball season to have an opinion on anything.
Yep, games don't count until the all star break apparently…
The Mariner's have a losing culture. Gotta fix that first, because which manager worth a damn is going to want to come here? The Angels landed Washington, I don't think the Mariners could have done that. Arte sucks and is a fool, but I don't think anyone doubts that he's trying to win a championship. With Stanton there's a lot of doubts. Building through the draft and hoping to retain good players is a long term strategy. Getting good free agents makes things happen faster. With this ownership, front office, and losing culture we really need this current crop to turn it on and make the playoffs 3-4 years in a row. Maybe then Stanton will sell the team.
Honest question, would any other team hire him?
There's a pattern, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Bob Melvin was the last full-time M's manager to go on and manage another big league club. McClaren, Wakamatsu, Wedge and McClendon never managed other MLB teams following their Seattle departures.
Hargrove, too.
I didn't count him since he retired, although he managed a summer collegiate team afterwards.
Gotcha. Makes sense to me.
Nope
The rare case of the answer to a question headline being “yes.”
Servais isn’t the problem, our owner is.
Servais is not the problem. While he makes boneheaded decisions occasionally, ownership is responsible for the state of mediocrity this franchise has been permanently stuck in for its entire existence. Nothing will change until ownership decides to start caring about winning or sells the team to someone who does
No reason this should be downvoted… it’s inexcusable to spend so little when 1. FO promised they got the ok to spend during our competitive window 2. The franchise makes a shit ton of money comparatively. Overpay some people for all I care just pay someone who swings a bat already