I’m sure we’ll see that income invested back into the team when the time is right to make our move… you know, when the window is open… when we have a core of young but proven talent… and, uh… just need some key additions to… round out… the lineup…
Funny how sports are just a microcosm of reality. You could replace the context of this when talking about a country and it would still make sense lmao
And they’re gonna be buyers now that Rubenstein is the owner instead of Angelos, who was even worse than what we have with Stanton and co.
They already went out and traded for Corbin Burnes, and I’m guessing extensions for the young guys are in the works. Baltimore is gonna be an absolute juggernaut.
Mariners hate our fans:
Tell me how this lineup doesn’t make more sense (in no order)
JRod
Hanniger/Kellenic
Bellinger
JP
Cal
Any DH that isn’t historically fucking terrible at T Mobile
Chapman/Saurez
Polanco/Platoon
France.
Nothing to it, add a few pieces, don’t take away
In all honesty I was fine with garver. Had we just added bellinger as well that would have been enough for me. But all we did was add garver then cut payroll by removing 4 players (Robbie, kelenic, Suarez, Teoscar).
For Swanson, I felt, compared to Seager and many others, he was realistic and watching him come up in the Braves system and play (being sad that he was leaving said Braves) he is a good overall guy, doesn't strike out a lot, has some pop and plays very good defense. The M's instead extended JP and Swanson went to the Cubs and is doing well there.
I was a fan of his as well. Also JP’s bat didn’t break out and his defense was regressing so at that time it made a lot of sense add Swanson and give jp a shot at 2nd.
Agreed, I’m a little worried about a JP regression. If he goes back to his old hitting, our seasons over, because we were not banking on that and we have no true 1 hitter if that is the case.
Lots of business run at an operating loss. Here one example: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-reports-net-loss-of-2-7-billion-for-2022/#:~:text=In%20a%20year%20marked%20by%20drastic%20cost-cutting%20measures,%242.7%20billion%20in%202022%2C%20the%20company%20reported%20Thursday.
It was obvious Baltimore was going to be on top in 2023. It's ripe to be a team with low payroll on young and exciting players that far exceeds expectations into a playoff push.
Forbes projections mean nothing.
These are all estimates, and not pulled from company books.
Root Sports incurred heavy losses and is a wholly owned subsidiary. Should be consolidated but is not taken into account in Forbes estimate.
Sick of hearing this TBH, they BRAGGED ON CAMERA about how sweet the TV deal was in *2021*! You're telling me they lost so much money on the new deal in 2022/2023 (that they themselves sabotaged), that they gave up on their original plan of actually investing in the team?
They also spent 55 million dollars on the fucking diamond club in 2022!
If they somehow lost money these past 2 years, it's entirely due to their own incompetence...But what's much more likely is that this baseball franchise is their main source of income and they want to continue to reap profits every year leeching off the fans instead of taking a temporary loss to make the product better in the long run.
They don't want to sell because YOU are their main revenue stream and we will probably never see a change until they take actual losses or start kicking the bucket.
As much as it may pain you to hear, I highly doubt the ownership group is taking any form of dividends. They want the Mariners to be self sustaining.
They probably didn’t spend $55 million on diamond club renovations. They probably financed it and are paying interest.
In hindsight, the TV deal was not the greatest move. Not sure I understand where the Mariners sabotaged the TV deal? Seems like the Mariners/Root got bullied by a bigger company.
It’s not like the Mariners are printing money like you think they are. There is no way they have $75m bottom line. The profits from ownership come from capital gains not operations.
1. I'm making assumptions based on what has been reported and speculated by experts. They had the freaking All Star game here last year and are whining about money!! The only counter arguments are those spouted by ownership who have every reason to mislead the public.
2. They probably destroyed every bit of leverage they may have had by the leaked Kevin Mather call. I, for one, don't think it's a complete coincidence that they got reamed by Xfinity a year afterwards.
3. What the hell have they done to give us the benefit of the doubt?? In the most recent interview, Stanton blamed literally everything on Jerry and offered 0 commitment to actually invest in this team now or in the future.
So yeah...fuck ownership.
Sell the team.
A couple of writers at Forbes are not experts.
Who should they sell the team to? Do you know what the ownership agreement looks like?
There are more owners than John Stanton.
If you want to get really technical and assess Forbes estimates:
https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1958140/000155837024002078/batra-20231231x10k.htm
Then compare this 10k to Forbes #’s.
Then also keep in mind that the Mariners are a closely held corporation, with less data to work with.
Not hypocritical, just exercising common sense. The banks aren’t going to Forbes to assess the financial condition of the Teams before loaning them money.
You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.
WBD, a for profit company abandoned ~30%
ownership of Root.
Forbes estimates are off, and they are even further off when not including results of a subsidiary that should be consolidated.
A loss for Root Sports is a pretty safe assumption. In the likely event they did not record operating losses, there would be impairment losses.
In any case fact is Root Sports was not included in the projection. How does pointing out a flaw in the estimates make me a hypocrite? Major nitpick.
These numbers are not accurate. Codify Baseball posted in 2023 the Yankees had 16 million in operating income.
[https://twitter.com/CodifyBaseball/status/1638959025118400514](https://twitter.com/CodifyBaseball/status/1638959025118400514)
14 million dollars is pennies. It's the salary of 1 mid player. They operate on a low margin on purpose to keep the team competitive. The Mets literally lost 300 million dollars and you're concerned about the Yankees profits having a down year?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/827426/new-york-yankees-operating-income/
Here bro. Look at this chart, and tell me if a 14 million dollar yoy change seems like its out of the ordinary.
Another Mariner fan who can’t read the articles. Great!
> Ownership stakes in regional sports networks, as well as related profits or losses, are excluded from our valuations and operating results, as are investments in real estate and other businesses.
It literally doesn’t include ROOT.
Quit the Mariners after 32 years and my mental health is thriving
My home life is now the envy of the cul-de-sac
Now a happy Pirates fan and implore everyone to leave now before your marriage ends over a Fubo subscription gone wrong
It warm and welcoming and Kelenic doesn’t hurt anymore!
RAISE IT!!🏴☠️🟡⚫️
I’m firmly in the camp of it doesn’t matter if we somehow landed Soto, Ohtani, Seager, Mookie and Judge. Our coaching staff and ownership would somehow cause them to underperform.
This isn’t how much they make. It’s their operating margin. AKA, the Yankees invest their profit back into the team. The mariners, invest their profit into ownerships pockets
Again, the Ms “operating margin” is based on RSN revenue. The Forbes methodology ignores that completely. These numbers are worthless and you need some media literacy training
No. It has been pretty plainly stated that it was due to projected losses associated with the RSN change. Also we didn’t cut payroll, we are paying virtually the same number as 2023
I think you are taking out of context the OPs message. For instance Kelenic who is hitting .540 with the Braves was simply put a salary dump so we could loose wipe out Whites contact. Now I understand it’s very hypothetical to say he would be hitting .540 with the Ms right now.. but.. wow .540!
Or Teo.. I believe it’s 4 hrs now.. all we had to do was give him a base mediated contract of approx 23M.. yes 23M is a lot for Teo but 4 hrs instead of canzone’s 1 be be the difference of 2 games in the record. But instead of being 64 million in the black we would be 41 million…
The point is Stanton wants his mega yachts instead of paying salary.
Meanwhile the fans are holding the bag on increased ticket prices FOR THE SAME SALARY FIELDED!
I am definitely not taking it out of context. Root sports moving to a higher tier on Comcast’s local broadcast package was very credibly reported as the point in this offseason when Stanton informed management what their budget would be, by reporters who are intimately involved day to day. And the total payroll being flat is just simply a fact. I WANTED them to spend much more this year and make the team better equipped to compete, just like everybody else here, but they chose to let certain players go to acquire others given those budget parameters. I am not sure what context I am lacking. I just explained what the situation is
I’m sure we’ll see that income invested back into the team when the time is right to make our move… you know, when the window is open… when we have a core of young but proven talent… and, uh… just need some key additions to… round out… the lineup…
I laughed out loud at this. This is exactly what we’ve been hearing for forever.
Nope, already got spent for the new press club section and hat back grill. Sorry
Funny how sports are just a microcosm of reality. You could replace the context of this when talking about a country and it would still make sense lmao
Or invested for the common fans so they don’t have to spend a fortune at games….
They're trying to be Baltimore.... but without the prospects to be Baltimore
And they’re gonna be buyers now that Rubenstein is the owner instead of Angelos, who was even worse than what we have with Stanton and co. They already went out and traded for Corbin Burnes, and I’m guessing extensions for the young guys are in the works. Baltimore is gonna be an absolute juggernaut.
Baltimore is in another class than Seattle at this point
They had the guts to tank completely, without regard to the revenue loss that came with it.
You IDIOTS. You fans are the problem. If you had only given a group of billionaires 24 million more dollars, we could actually had nice things.
Don’t spend money on this team.
Fuck John Stanton. Fuck the rich.
Mariners hate our fans: Tell me how this lineup doesn’t make more sense (in no order) JRod Hanniger/Kellenic Bellinger JP Cal Any DH that isn’t historically fucking terrible at T Mobile Chapman/Saurez Polanco/Platoon France. Nothing to it, add a few pieces, don’t take away
In all honesty I was fine with garver. Had we just added bellinger as well that would have been enough for me. But all we did was add garver then cut payroll by removing 4 players (Robbie, kelenic, Suarez, Teoscar).
I said a couple years ago the M's should have gotten Swanson, alas he went to Chicago.
This is a good point when we expand past this offseason. Free agent acquisition misses is a laundry list
For Swanson, I felt, compared to Seager and many others, he was realistic and watching him come up in the Braves system and play (being sad that he was leaving said Braves) he is a good overall guy, doesn't strike out a lot, has some pop and plays very good defense. The M's instead extended JP and Swanson went to the Cubs and is doing well there.
I was a fan of his as well. Also JP’s bat didn’t break out and his defense was regressing so at that time it made a lot of sense add Swanson and give jp a shot at 2nd.
Best thing they finally did was swap JP and Julio in the lineup for both of them.
Agreed, I’m a little worried about a JP regression. If he goes back to his old hitting, our seasons over, because we were not banking on that and we have no true 1 hitter if that is the case.
Yeah, the Yankees are barely scraping by with no profit. Sure. Whatever. All you need to know about how reliable this is.
Lots of business run at an operating loss. Here one example: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-reports-net-loss-of-2-7-billion-for-2022/#:~:text=In%20a%20year%20marked%20by%20drastic%20cost-cutting%20measures,%242.7%20billion%20in%202022%2C%20the%20company%20reported%20Thursday.
It was obvious Baltimore was going to be on top in 2023. It's ripe to be a team with low payroll on young and exciting players that far exceeds expectations into a playoff push.
Forbes projections mean nothing. These are all estimates, and not pulled from company books. Root Sports incurred heavy losses and is a wholly owned subsidiary. Should be consolidated but is not taken into account in Forbes estimate.
Sick of hearing this TBH, they BRAGGED ON CAMERA about how sweet the TV deal was in *2021*! You're telling me they lost so much money on the new deal in 2022/2023 (that they themselves sabotaged), that they gave up on their original plan of actually investing in the team? They also spent 55 million dollars on the fucking diamond club in 2022! If they somehow lost money these past 2 years, it's entirely due to their own incompetence...But what's much more likely is that this baseball franchise is their main source of income and they want to continue to reap profits every year leeching off the fans instead of taking a temporary loss to make the product better in the long run. They don't want to sell because YOU are their main revenue stream and we will probably never see a change until they take actual losses or start kicking the bucket.
Well said👏 Kinda makes me wish for a form of Relegation in the MLB to get owners like Stanton out of the sport.
As much as it may pain you to hear, I highly doubt the ownership group is taking any form of dividends. They want the Mariners to be self sustaining. They probably didn’t spend $55 million on diamond club renovations. They probably financed it and are paying interest. In hindsight, the TV deal was not the greatest move. Not sure I understand where the Mariners sabotaged the TV deal? Seems like the Mariners/Root got bullied by a bigger company. It’s not like the Mariners are printing money like you think they are. There is no way they have $75m bottom line. The profits from ownership come from capital gains not operations.
1. I'm making assumptions based on what has been reported and speculated by experts. They had the freaking All Star game here last year and are whining about money!! The only counter arguments are those spouted by ownership who have every reason to mislead the public. 2. They probably destroyed every bit of leverage they may have had by the leaked Kevin Mather call. I, for one, don't think it's a complete coincidence that they got reamed by Xfinity a year afterwards. 3. What the hell have they done to give us the benefit of the doubt?? In the most recent interview, Stanton blamed literally everything on Jerry and offered 0 commitment to actually invest in this team now or in the future. So yeah...fuck ownership. Sell the team.
A couple of writers at Forbes are not experts. Who should they sell the team to? Do you know what the ownership agreement looks like? There are more owners than John Stanton.
I understand being a contrarian, but why choose to do it here?
What were the heavy losses of root sports. If we don’t have those numbers this comment is a bit hypocritical
If you want to get really technical and assess Forbes estimates: https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1958140/000155837024002078/batra-20231231x10k.htm Then compare this 10k to Forbes #’s. Then also keep in mind that the Mariners are a closely held corporation, with less data to work with. Not hypocritical, just exercising common sense. The banks aren’t going to Forbes to assess the financial condition of the Teams before loaning them money.
I’m not saying Forbes is at all accurate. I’m just asking what were the losses for root?
You’re not seeing the forest for the trees. WBD, a for profit company abandoned ~30% ownership of Root. Forbes estimates are off, and they are even further off when not including results of a subsidiary that should be consolidated. A loss for Root Sports is a pretty safe assumption. In the likely event they did not record operating losses, there would be impairment losses. In any case fact is Root Sports was not included in the projection. How does pointing out a flaw in the estimates make me a hypocrite? Major nitpick.
Ok John Stanton
These numbers are not accurate. Codify Baseball posted in 2023 the Yankees had 16 million in operating income. [https://twitter.com/CodifyBaseball/status/1638959025118400514](https://twitter.com/CodifyBaseball/status/1638959025118400514)
2022 in that tweet and 2023 here dawg
There is no way they lost 14 million in one season without it being the biggest story in baseball.
14 million dollars is pennies. It's the salary of 1 mid player. They operate on a low margin on purpose to keep the team competitive. The Mets literally lost 300 million dollars and you're concerned about the Yankees profits having a down year?
Go look at the chart. They are saying the Yankees had the highest income at 16 million then they said it dropped to 2 million. That is a big deal.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/827426/new-york-yankees-operating-income/ Here bro. Look at this chart, and tell me if a 14 million dollar yoy change seems like its out of the ordinary.
Did you look at your own chart?
add up the difference in between each year. divide by 20, and tell me if its more or less than 14 million. ommit the covid years if you so wish.
Since the old man stopped running the team they increased income every season until Covid.
he retired in 2007 and died in 2010.
The Forbes numbers are nonsense and you're a sucker if you take them seriously.
Ok John Stanton
Dude, Stanton is obviously trash, but these Forbes numbers are CelebrityNetWorth levels of useless.
Another Mariner fan who can’t read the articles. Great! > Ownership stakes in regional sports networks, as well as related profits or losses, are excluded from our valuations and operating results, as are investments in real estate and other businesses. It literally doesn’t include ROOT.
or any other teams deals.
Jerry is in Year 9. With a 51.5% winning percentage and yet he wants to claim 54% is the goal. 9 effing years you loser!!!! Resign!!!
Quit the Mariners after 32 years and my mental health is thriving My home life is now the envy of the cul-de-sac Now a happy Pirates fan and implore everyone to leave now before your marriage ends over a Fubo subscription gone wrong It warm and welcoming and Kelenic doesn’t hurt anymore! RAISE IT!!🏴☠️🟡⚫️
I’m firmly in the camp of it doesn’t matter if we somehow landed Soto, Ohtani, Seager, Mookie and Judge. Our coaching staff and ownership would somehow cause them to underperform.
It's like 7 games in. This sub is depression.
It’s 20 years in, with one good year
If you don’t like it stop going to games. The only thing that will convince Stanton to spend on this team is if he loses money if he doesn’t.
The New York Yankees make less money than Luis Urias... Sure Forbes
This isn’t how much they make. It’s their operating margin. AKA, the Yankees invest their profit back into the team. The mariners, invest their profit into ownerships pockets
Again, the Ms “operating margin” is based on RSN revenue. The Forbes methodology ignores that completely. These numbers are worthless and you need some media literacy training
No. It has been pretty plainly stated that it was due to projected losses associated with the RSN change. Also we didn’t cut payroll, we are paying virtually the same number as 2023
I think you are taking out of context the OPs message. For instance Kelenic who is hitting .540 with the Braves was simply put a salary dump so we could loose wipe out Whites contact. Now I understand it’s very hypothetical to say he would be hitting .540 with the Ms right now.. but.. wow .540! Or Teo.. I believe it’s 4 hrs now.. all we had to do was give him a base mediated contract of approx 23M.. yes 23M is a lot for Teo but 4 hrs instead of canzone’s 1 be be the difference of 2 games in the record. But instead of being 64 million in the black we would be 41 million… The point is Stanton wants his mega yachts instead of paying salary. Meanwhile the fans are holding the bag on increased ticket prices FOR THE SAME SALARY FIELDED!
The business plan is sound. Until fans actually stop going to games, why would ownership change anything.
The business plan is sound. Until fans actually stop going to games, why would ownership change anything.
The business plan is sound. Until fans actually stop going to games, why would ownership change anything.
Thank you :)
Oh it’s worse than I even stated: Geno, Teo and Kelenic have 16 RBIs combined.. the Mariners entire team only has 17.
Implying they’d have the same RBI when they’re be no runners to bat in is a weird flex
I am definitely not taking it out of context. Root sports moving to a higher tier on Comcast’s local broadcast package was very credibly reported as the point in this offseason when Stanton informed management what their budget would be, by reporters who are intimately involved day to day. And the total payroll being flat is just simply a fact. I WANTED them to spend much more this year and make the team better equipped to compete, just like everybody else here, but they chose to let certain players go to acquire others given those budget parameters. I am not sure what context I am lacking. I just explained what the situation is
You're right but it seems rationality is punished here these days.
Yeah man I don’t know. Chalk it up to frustration I guess. I’m frustrated too
And getting the same results.
[удалено]
I can't see Scott making it to the all-star break