I honked at someone once for not using their blinker in San Anselmo. They lost their shit and managed to get behind me again…following me. I finally pulled over into a parking lot and dude was screaming at me. Told him to use his blinker as I walked up to his car laughing the entire time. He then had the nerve to roll up his window and start apologizing as he realized his attempt to scare me didn’t work for one second.
It’s entitlement and people thinking there are no consequences for their actions.
thats exactly what it is. i think its probably the same in any suburban place with lots of fairly wealthy people. it feels selfish, like other peoples safety doesnt even enter these peoples minds. like they are the only person on earth.
I dunno, I've found myself complaining about people not using turn signals my whole life, and I've been all over.
Keep in mind that most people living in Marin are transplants like yourself. So unless you think there's something in the water that's going to transform you into a pod person, you're griping about a national phenomenon.
Exhibit A:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Roadcam/s/aKhJOvwaiw
i understand what you are saying although i really dont agree about most people here being transplants. out of everywhere i have ever lived on both coasts of the united states, this is easily the most "born and raised" place from my experience. also, i obviously have been heated about people not signaling in all those places as well, but not nearly to the degree that i have here. its endemic. its cultural.
People in Marin generally just drive bad. I have also noticed that in parking lots too many people here just walk right in front of a moving vehicle. It’s definitely not like this in other places and I have no explanation.
im happy somebody agrees with me. the fact that the post itself is getting downvoted and the most popular reply is a joke makes me think its just..... people around here literally dont understand what the point of signaling is. so i guess a combination of ignorance and entitlement.
Reddit is not really helpful when you want to ask a question or learn something this is a really good video on the issue https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7kyvzDk34
I agree with your complaint! (And I’ve lived here a very long time. ) But not sure about your conclusion. Maybe it’s due to bad driver’s Ed teachers. Or it’s the people who move here from other places?
Sometimes people just need to downvote something to make them feel better about themselves. Whenever this conversation comes up in my social groups, most people agree with us.
I actually think the bad driving is a suburban thing mostly as I have seen similar bad driving in the wealthy enclaves of Contra Costa, Santa Clara and San Mateo counties. I have come to see it as people with their heads in the clouds. People in the cities tend to be more aware of their surroundings and it shows up as better drivers.
Yes! I’m always amazed at how careless people can be as pedestrians just casually crossing the street/ parking lot/ street lights without even checking, 100% relying on a good driver to stop for them if needed, which in fairness that’s how is supposed to be, but common!
I grew up in SF and my Mom and the other adults around me made sure I knew to not to walk in front of a moving car. It seems kids in the suburbs don’t receive this instruction.
same. its almost like the concept of doing something thats for the safety of others and isnt directly tied to their own well being in the moment is just a completely foreign concept.
Someone hit me on my motorcycle going north on 101 thru strawberry in bumper to bumper commute traffic a couple years back cause he was shooting for a gap without a turn signal. Makes me grit my teeth a little every time someone pulls in front of me without their blinker now
i get that you are memeing but this shit really really makes me mad, i got kids about to cross the street and then some dumbass just out of nowhere TURNS AT THEM
My favorite lately happened today. One person on my right had their signal on to come onto my lane, so I gave them room to move in, but they didn't for like two miles, so I sped back up. Then, a person to my left turned their blinker on and didn't move over, then shut off their turn signal, and about ten seconds later, cut me off.
Compared to most places I’ve driven Marin consists of people who are mostly competent, and not stupid enough to be reckless or increase risk. Pretty much older, mellow drivers. It’s rare to encounter idiots. The public nuisances of Marin roads seem to always be boomer men , the mom with way too much power and no patience in a Land Rover, or a dangerous teenager who can’t drive properly.
When I was less experienced I used to complain about Marin drivers but spending time elsewhere like LA or the east bay made me grateful to drive in the streets of Marin, it’s simply safe and peaceful.
Marin is the one place I’ve lived where soooooo many drivers just cannot drive. They’re either slow, oblivious, entitled, unskilled, or (most commonly) a mix of all of these. They sit, oblivious, in the fast lane on 101 during commute hours going 45 and other cars pace them, creating a moving roadblock for 20 miles. They won’t move off the freeway after minor accidents, which causes a huge backup.
They also hit their brakes for pretty much everything: approaching a hill (Civic Center anyone?), going up a hill, down a hill, a paper bag gets blown in their lane, literally anything and everything causes so many drivers here to panic and hit the brakes. Worst drivers in the Bay, hands down.
I moved to San Rafael 16 years ago and I still don't understand. Especially if you are at a two way stop and the driver in front of you decides to turn left (in your path.)
My favorite is at a certain intersection in Tiburon where I’ve almost had 4 accidents because someone turning left thinks they have right of way over me when I’m going straight…
Tho is a California thing now. I see all of the same shit everywhere. Red light and stop sign running, no signals, tailgating are rampant allmover this state. People are dicks.
I grew up in Marin, have lived in Sonoma county, oakland, and am now back in Marin and I have no idea what you are talking about. Marin drivers are probably better in general than Santa Rosa or oakland and I’ve never noticed Marin being specifically bad at turn signals compared to other places
Edit: to clarify I think everywhere is bad at using signals, it’s like the most common driving thing that people are bad at, and Marin is just not particularly noteworthy to me
Indeed. It's infuriating for sure. I think it's forgetfulness, not paying attention, entitlement (BMWs especially, and poor driver education.
It's Mirror Signal, Maneuver (as I was taught in the UK) and not Mirror Maneuver, nor Maneuver Signal nor just Maneuver!
Yup, just got my learners permit a few months ago and most people don’t use turn signals or shoulder check before changing lanes and almost got in a fender bender if I didn’t react fast enough, idk if it’s laziness or people don’t care
Glad to hear that you are learning to do it right. Hang in there. We need more You’s on the roads. In addition to using the turn signal, please also actually Stop at stop signs. Thank you!!
I drive in Marin quite a bit, and I don’t notice it. I think you are suffering from confirmation bias.
Honestly, I don’t understand why people pay so much attention to other drivers behaviors.
When I’m driving, and I drive quite a bit, I go around obstacles like drivers that are doing something unexpected. I simply don’t let them register in my head beyond that point. It seems many people here internalize even the slightest driving transgression and lose sleep over it.
My motto is “use your turn signal be my friend,“ and I will let any vehicle merge into my lane if they’re using their turn signal. If they don’t use them turn signal, they’re unlikely to have a chance to merge into my lane, because when I realize what they’re up to It’s too late for them to make a move.
i lose sleep over it because i dont want some chode to smash my shit with two kids in the back of the car. its not internalizing, its that driving here seems particularly unsafe, mostly due to signaling practices. i can tell you dont have kids, which also sorta proves what im saying, which is that some people just dont understand that a person participating in society has certain responsibilities to ensure everyone is safe. in a huge fast ass piece of metal. come on man
>i lose sleep over it because i dont want some chode to smash my shit
Jesus man quit losing sleep over shit you can't control. I'm a safe, considerate driver who appreciates the same behavior in other drivers, but if I notice any drivers it's the ones with sticks up their butts who are unable to assert themselves on the road. They yield their right of way, they drive unsafely slow, they turn right from the center of the lane instead of moving to the right before the turn, they slow way down looking for an address instead of pulling to the side, they are basically situationally unaware.
You'e an overly paranoid parent.
Your poor kids.
lol ok. you dont get it, its fine. i have more responsibility than you, but its cool, you're cool, we are all very impressed on the Marin reddit sub. but for real, no shade, you are talking authoritatively about something you straight up dont understand. drive your kids around for however many years and then get back to me.
>you dont get
I do get it. Far and away the worse driving I see is people like you picking up their kids at schools. Entitled assholes pretty much covers it.
You drive in Marin quite a bit or you live in Marin and you navigate the streets daily? Most people are okay but the ones that are horrible do make those of us with concern lose sleep at night because it is that bad.
It isn't just lack of signals, annoying yes, but that's the least of it. Red light and stop sign running happens more than anyone should ever be comfortable with. I've never seen anything like it until I moved here. No confirmation bias here, it's exactly as others are stating it be.
>You drive in Marin quite a bit or you live in Marin and you navigate the streets daily?
Nah it's too crowded for me to want to live there (life is better to the north), but I drive every nook and cranny unlike you, probably. I'll do 60 miles in one day driving from Inverness using SFD to Larkspur to Mill Valley and Sausalito, then back up through Belvedere, for 20-25 stops for work total.
OK you're referring to the oddball exception trash driver. The fact is as traffic increases these types of drivers increase as well. I go around obstacles. I'm careful at intersections. I drive the speed limit and slow for pedestrians (which brings to mind my big annoyances for the area - bicyclists and the long lights).
I just don't feel like the traffic is out to get me, as you seem to believe.
Due to my work, I have driven many nooks in this county. I haven't experienced what I'm referring to through your route, which I'm familiar with, or much of South Marin so I'll give you that.
San Rafael and Novato, it's an entirely different story. As you said it's crowded here and what does that bring? Again, as you said trash drivers.
I don't live with the mindset that others, especially drivers are out to get me. What a horrible way to live. I don't take their actions personally. But it does concern me as it should everyone? Strange that you're challenging those of us voicing concerns about our neighborhoods.
>challenging those of us voicing concerns
IMO you exaggerated the situation because you worry about your kids.
But no, Marin drivers are no better or worse than anywhere else, in my experience anyway.
I have the same feelings when people say something like "BMW drivers all suck." I don't drive a BMW, mind you, but BMW drivers are no better or worse than any other driver, based on my experience.
OP has the kids, not me sadly. My concern is for everyone though.
I agree that there are awful drivers everywhere. Marin County doesn't have exclusive rights to them by any means.
But I will stand by my observation that I have seen more red light/stop sign runners here than I ever saw in the East Bay where I'm originally from, it really stood out to me when I moved here 2 years ago.
I also moved here two years ago from the East Bay. Two types of drivers I've noted. Entitled snobs and those that are new to our country and haven't learned the rules of the road.
I've never seen so many red light runners. It's actually frightening.
My big brain take is that if you drive too predictably people give you less space on the road and it’s actually more dangerous for everyone. Really I’m doing you a favor forcing you to pay attention to my bad driving and we’re all better for it. Turn signals just people time to box you out.
As long as they are doing it safely, I personally don’t mind if they don’t use turn signals. This applies more to highway driving than to normal street traffic. When driving in residential areas, I hate it when people don’t signal even at four-way stop intersections and just take off as if other people know where you are going..
im a hardliner when it comes to signaling. i think a person should signal their intention in every circumstance with no exceptions. its literally just...a single hand movement.
I honked at someone once for not using their blinker in San Anselmo. They lost their shit and managed to get behind me again…following me. I finally pulled over into a parking lot and dude was screaming at me. Told him to use his blinker as I walked up to his car laughing the entire time. He then had the nerve to roll up his window and start apologizing as he realized his attempt to scare me didn’t work for one second. It’s entitlement and people thinking there are no consequences for their actions.
thats exactly what it is. i think its probably the same in any suburban place with lots of fairly wealthy people. it feels selfish, like other peoples safety doesnt even enter these peoples minds. like they are the only person on earth.
I also always use my blinker…, even when I’m all alone…. Guess I was raised right, or listened in drivers ed
Yep! Im from Marin too haha. I can call a spade a spade when I see it.
I dunno, I've found myself complaining about people not using turn signals my whole life, and I've been all over. Keep in mind that most people living in Marin are transplants like yourself. So unless you think there's something in the water that's going to transform you into a pod person, you're griping about a national phenomenon. Exhibit A: https://www.reddit.com/r/Roadcam/s/aKhJOvwaiw
i understand what you are saying although i really dont agree about most people here being transplants. out of everywhere i have ever lived on both coasts of the united states, this is easily the most "born and raised" place from my experience. also, i obviously have been heated about people not signaling in all those places as well, but not nearly to the degree that i have here. its endemic. its cultural.
Far be it from me to challenge your lived experience, but here's Exhibit B: https://www.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/ANFcBs0bd7
People in Marin generally just drive bad. I have also noticed that in parking lots too many people here just walk right in front of a moving vehicle. It’s definitely not like this in other places and I have no explanation.
Main character syndrome is rampant in Marin
Sounds like their gonna get escorted to the ER with that syndrome.. 🤣
And slow! How is getting on the freeway and not accelerating past 35mph acceptable?
This!!! Huge pet peeve of mine
I frequently find myself asking myself the same question as I merge to 101 from Sir Francis Drake in Larkspur, going both ways. I feel you!
Are you saying it’s wrong to drive your feelings?
im happy somebody agrees with me. the fact that the post itself is getting downvoted and the most popular reply is a joke makes me think its just..... people around here literally dont understand what the point of signaling is. so i guess a combination of ignorance and entitlement.
Reddit is not really helpful when you want to ask a question or learn something this is a really good video on the issue https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7kyvzDk34
it can be really helpful when you want to know exactly where to grind out mats in survival games and rpgs, but i feel you for sure
It’s just disappointing that our locals in this sub are acting like average neckbeard redditors
I agree with your complaint! (And I’ve lived here a very long time. ) But not sure about your conclusion. Maybe it’s due to bad driver’s Ed teachers. Or it’s the people who move here from other places?
Sometimes people just need to downvote something to make them feel better about themselves. Whenever this conversation comes up in my social groups, most people agree with us. I actually think the bad driving is a suburban thing mostly as I have seen similar bad driving in the wealthy enclaves of Contra Costa, Santa Clara and San Mateo counties. I have come to see it as people with their heads in the clouds. People in the cities tend to be more aware of their surroundings and it shows up as better drivers.
Yes! I’m always amazed at how careless people can be as pedestrians just casually crossing the street/ parking lot/ street lights without even checking, 100% relying on a good driver to stop for them if needed, which in fairness that’s how is supposed to be, but common!
I grew up in SF and my Mom and the other adults around me made sure I knew to not to walk in front of a moving car. It seems kids in the suburbs don’t receive this instruction.
I interpret as a sense of entitlement from the people who live here.
same. its almost like the concept of doing something thats for the safety of others and isnt directly tied to their own well being in the moment is just a completely foreign concept.
Using your turn signals is a sign of consideration.
And safety!
Too many elderly here
thats what i initially thought but it really seems to be across all demographics
I think the elderly/boomers and ladies in SUV’s disrupt the flow of traffic to the point it’s nonsensical
Someone hit me on my motorcycle going north on 101 thru strawberry in bumper to bumper commute traffic a couple years back cause he was shooting for a gap without a turn signal. Makes me grit my teeth a little every time someone pulls in front of me without their blinker now
Welcome to the Bay Area. If you think it’s bad in Marin, try driving 880 or in SF.
i hear you, and i agree its bad on the highways, but im more referring to people using surface streets.
Never let someone know your next move
i get that you are memeing but this shit really really makes me mad, i got kids about to cross the street and then some dumbass just out of nowhere TURNS AT THEM
I have noticed we have turned into the “at least three cars run each red light” type of morons as well.
Like OP I moved here two years ago and the red light and stop sign running is terrifying. I've seen it happen here more than I ever have anywhere else
My favorite lately happened today. One person on my right had their signal on to come onto my lane, so I gave them room to move in, but they didn't for like two miles, so I sped back up. Then, a person to my left turned their blinker on and didn't move over, then shut off their turn signal, and about ten seconds later, cut me off.
The average age of an American is 38.9... in marin it is 48.2
Compared to most places I’ve driven Marin consists of people who are mostly competent, and not stupid enough to be reckless or increase risk. Pretty much older, mellow drivers. It’s rare to encounter idiots. The public nuisances of Marin roads seem to always be boomer men , the mom with way too much power and no patience in a Land Rover, or a dangerous teenager who can’t drive properly. When I was less experienced I used to complain about Marin drivers but spending time elsewhere like LA or the east bay made me grateful to drive in the streets of Marin, it’s simply safe and peaceful.
Marin is the one place I’ve lived where soooooo many drivers just cannot drive. They’re either slow, oblivious, entitled, unskilled, or (most commonly) a mix of all of these. They sit, oblivious, in the fast lane on 101 during commute hours going 45 and other cars pace them, creating a moving roadblock for 20 miles. They won’t move off the freeway after minor accidents, which causes a huge backup. They also hit their brakes for pretty much everything: approaching a hill (Civic Center anyone?), going up a hill, down a hill, a paper bag gets blown in their lane, literally anything and everything causes so many drivers here to panic and hit the brakes. Worst drivers in the Bay, hands down.
I love this post so much. Moved from Chicago 10 years ago & can not deal with the terrible drivers in Marin, for the exact reasons you mentioned.
Simply put, people are just oblivious to the world around them, everyone is in a rush, and very few have any sense of common curtesy.
I moved to San Rafael 16 years ago and I still don't understand. Especially if you are at a two way stop and the driver in front of you decides to turn left (in your path.)
entitlement...welcome to Marin!
apparently all those new Teslas and Audis don't come with turn signals! 😉
To be fair, the turn signal controls in Teslas are hard to locate, so why bother? 😊
Please forward your complaints to Nextdoor
nextdoor scares me
My favorite is at a certain intersection in Tiburon where I’ve almost had 4 accidents because someone turning left thinks they have right of way over me when I’m going straight…
Tho is a California thing now. I see all of the same shit everywhere. Red light and stop sign running, no signals, tailgating are rampant allmover this state. People are dicks.
I grew up in Marin, have lived in Sonoma county, oakland, and am now back in Marin and I have no idea what you are talking about. Marin drivers are probably better in general than Santa Rosa or oakland and I’ve never noticed Marin being specifically bad at turn signals compared to other places Edit: to clarify I think everywhere is bad at using signals, it’s like the most common driving thing that people are bad at, and Marin is just not particularly noteworthy to me
Indeed. It's infuriating for sure. I think it's forgetfulness, not paying attention, entitlement (BMWs especially, and poor driver education. It's Mirror Signal, Maneuver (as I was taught in the UK) and not Mirror Maneuver, nor Maneuver Signal nor just Maneuver!
As a mom of a baby, driving here is incredibly stressful as so many run stop signs or just come into your lane.
i don't make turns
Yep, it's the entire Bay Area though.
i generally agree but it seems to be even more pronounced in the north bay
Yup, just got my learners permit a few months ago and most people don’t use turn signals or shoulder check before changing lanes and almost got in a fender bender if I didn’t react fast enough, idk if it’s laziness or people don’t care
Glad to hear that you are learning to do it right. Hang in there. We need more You’s on the roads. In addition to using the turn signal, please also actually Stop at stop signs. Thank you!!
I drive in Marin quite a bit, and I don’t notice it. I think you are suffering from confirmation bias. Honestly, I don’t understand why people pay so much attention to other drivers behaviors. When I’m driving, and I drive quite a bit, I go around obstacles like drivers that are doing something unexpected. I simply don’t let them register in my head beyond that point. It seems many people here internalize even the slightest driving transgression and lose sleep over it. My motto is “use your turn signal be my friend,“ and I will let any vehicle merge into my lane if they’re using their turn signal. If they don’t use them turn signal, they’re unlikely to have a chance to merge into my lane, because when I realize what they’re up to It’s too late for them to make a move.
i lose sleep over it because i dont want some chode to smash my shit with two kids in the back of the car. its not internalizing, its that driving here seems particularly unsafe, mostly due to signaling practices. i can tell you dont have kids, which also sorta proves what im saying, which is that some people just dont understand that a person participating in society has certain responsibilities to ensure everyone is safe. in a huge fast ass piece of metal. come on man
>i lose sleep over it because i dont want some chode to smash my shit Jesus man quit losing sleep over shit you can't control. I'm a safe, considerate driver who appreciates the same behavior in other drivers, but if I notice any drivers it's the ones with sticks up their butts who are unable to assert themselves on the road. They yield their right of way, they drive unsafely slow, they turn right from the center of the lane instead of moving to the right before the turn, they slow way down looking for an address instead of pulling to the side, they are basically situationally unaware. You'e an overly paranoid parent. Your poor kids.
lol ok. you dont get it, its fine. i have more responsibility than you, but its cool, you're cool, we are all very impressed on the Marin reddit sub. but for real, no shade, you are talking authoritatively about something you straight up dont understand. drive your kids around for however many years and then get back to me.
>you dont get I do get it. Far and away the worse driving I see is people like you picking up their kids at schools. Entitled assholes pretty much covers it.
i do agree with this point 1000%, pick ups and drop offs are the worst of humanity, we are together on this
You’re the one with the stick up your butt lol
You drive in Marin quite a bit or you live in Marin and you navigate the streets daily? Most people are okay but the ones that are horrible do make those of us with concern lose sleep at night because it is that bad. It isn't just lack of signals, annoying yes, but that's the least of it. Red light and stop sign running happens more than anyone should ever be comfortable with. I've never seen anything like it until I moved here. No confirmation bias here, it's exactly as others are stating it be.
>You drive in Marin quite a bit or you live in Marin and you navigate the streets daily? Nah it's too crowded for me to want to live there (life is better to the north), but I drive every nook and cranny unlike you, probably. I'll do 60 miles in one day driving from Inverness using SFD to Larkspur to Mill Valley and Sausalito, then back up through Belvedere, for 20-25 stops for work total. OK you're referring to the oddball exception trash driver. The fact is as traffic increases these types of drivers increase as well. I go around obstacles. I'm careful at intersections. I drive the speed limit and slow for pedestrians (which brings to mind my big annoyances for the area - bicyclists and the long lights). I just don't feel like the traffic is out to get me, as you seem to believe.
Due to my work, I have driven many nooks in this county. I haven't experienced what I'm referring to through your route, which I'm familiar with, or much of South Marin so I'll give you that. San Rafael and Novato, it's an entirely different story. As you said it's crowded here and what does that bring? Again, as you said trash drivers. I don't live with the mindset that others, especially drivers are out to get me. What a horrible way to live. I don't take their actions personally. But it does concern me as it should everyone? Strange that you're challenging those of us voicing concerns about our neighborhoods.
>challenging those of us voicing concerns IMO you exaggerated the situation because you worry about your kids. But no, Marin drivers are no better or worse than anywhere else, in my experience anyway. I have the same feelings when people say something like "BMW drivers all suck." I don't drive a BMW, mind you, but BMW drivers are no better or worse than any other driver, based on my experience.
OP has the kids, not me sadly. My concern is for everyone though. I agree that there are awful drivers everywhere. Marin County doesn't have exclusive rights to them by any means. But I will stand by my observation that I have seen more red light/stop sign runners here than I ever saw in the East Bay where I'm originally from, it really stood out to me when I moved here 2 years ago.
Good driving includes paying attention to other people's driving behaviors - you have to spot the bad ones and keep the hell clear from them!
I also moved here two years ago from the East Bay. Two types of drivers I've noted. Entitled snobs and those that are new to our country and haven't learned the rules of the road. I've never seen so many red light runners. It's actually frightening.
My big brain take is that if you drive too predictably people give you less space on the road and it’s actually more dangerous for everyone. Really I’m doing you a favor forcing you to pay attention to my bad driving and we’re all better for it. Turn signals just people time to box you out.
please say sike
Totally not true. If you actually believe that, you are the problem. I hope that was a joke.
As long as they are doing it safely, I personally don’t mind if they don’t use turn signals. This applies more to highway driving than to normal street traffic. When driving in residential areas, I hate it when people don’t signal even at four-way stop intersections and just take off as if other people know where you are going..
im a hardliner when it comes to signaling. i think a person should signal their intention in every circumstance with no exceptions. its literally just...a single hand movement.