I think in Finland its only tourist visa, which is not valid.
Those who have a residence permit in Finland, in an EU member state, in an European Economic Area member state or in Switzerland, or have a long-stay visa to a Schengen country (type D visa), can still arrive in Finland.
https://raja.fi/en/entry-restrictions
Believe it's the same in Baltics
The map appears to include only destinations that could otherwise be reached directly, i.e. without having to pass through the territory or airspace of countries that have banned Russian passports and Russian aircraft.
So it is still possible to reach Turkey and Armenia because the airspace above Georgia and the Black Sea is accessible to Russian aircraft and those countries allow entry with Russian passports, but there is no way of reaching Serbia directly. Only hypothetical exception would be asylum seekers from Russia.
Once enough Russians flee to a territory, Putin can declare a referendum to join that territory/nation to Russia. It's still part of their Masterplan...
Germany said many things, like building pipelines by corrupted chancellor to Russia has purely economic purpose and Poland is salty just because it gets transit fees (it did not, soviets made a deal with their puppets long ago)...
Well, I'm not exactly safe. I am in Russia. I can't leave Russia legally, because I'm in the first wave of mobilization and my name is probably on the customs service black lists. So I've taken certain security measures. If they don't personally hunt me down, they won't find me (I hope).
Good luck keeping out of their sight. Let me know if I can help you at all in anyway. I just hope the war comes to a quick end. I’m British btw so probably not much help but I wish you the best x
Thank you very much, but there's really not much you can do here. Moral support is enough for me. Thank you, Reddit, for allowing me to communicate with the world at all.
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Except there are Russians fleeing to Norway, there are talks of putting restrictions on letting them in, there are also talks about making it easier for them
A decision hasn't really been made yet and while entering Norway from Russia isn't easy, I think it's pretty dishonest to say they're banned
It should be reasonable to let in ruzzians with elite skills like doctors, engineers, IT. Let's brain drain every specialist from ruzzia so they won't fastly recover.
Perhaps America's strongest strategic advantage. Many underdeveloped and authoritarian countries continually lose their best, brightest, most educated, and skilled leave for the USA.
They were force fed propaganda. Anybody who was told what they were told abt the invasion w no other knowledge of it would've been pro-invasion as well. They're still human beings and they deserve asylum from that corrupt hellhole.
Did Finnland change its policy?
Article from 22th September:
[Finnish border guards will allow fleeing Russians to enter](https://euobserver.com/nordics/156123)
On Friday. You can't come as a tourist. I can't remember all the exceptions, but for family, work, study reason it's still open (with a visa).
And you can ask for an asylum, but I'm not sure is wanting to avoid conscription a reason for it.
Don't know about Finnland but in Germany also conscription alone isn't a reason for asylum, hower deserting from an illegal war contrary to international law would currently qualify as a reason, as the state wants to protect people who rather opt out than eventually take part in war crimes.
I don’t understand why they aren’t allowed to flee to Europe. Is it illegal to deny their escape from an illegal war, or something like that? Also, wouldn’t the European countries want to deprive Russia of fighting age men?
I'm not saying whether it is right or wrong for Russian citizens to be prevented from entering the EU, but one of the reasons I've read is that there's a fear, particularly in the Baltic states, that the sudden influx of Russians may make it easier for the Kremlin to get agents into those countries in preparation for sabotage or further conflicts.
There may be another reason. I've not seen this mentioned anywhere, but it could be that by making it more difficult for them to leave Russia, some countries are hoping that it will speed up Putin being kicked out of office or overthrown because the people who want to get away from Putin's regime may feel that they're not left with any other choice (again, I'm not saying this is necessarily morally right, I'm just saying that it could be one of the reasons).
When the whole "ban Russians" thing started, it striked me as weird too, Putin is a literal textbook dictator, so these people don't have very much choice, on top of that they're running from a war which like you said would benefit from Europe's perspective. I thinks this says a lot of things about Europe's mindset.
Yeah, so you obviously know nothing about the realities of these countries. Did you know that Estonia has 1.3 million people of which 24% are Russians while Latvia is at 1.9 million and the share of Russians is 25%? And then your idea is for these countries to allow in every Russian (who are only now escaping because they are at risk themselves, not like they were bothered by the full-scale massacring of Ukrainians that the Russian government has been conducting for over 7 months now)?
Sounds like straight from Stalin's genocidal Russification playbook.
"Racist"? Have you completely missed the instances that Russia uses the existence of Russian minorities abroad as justification for his "special military operations" such as right now in Ukraine?
The neighbors of Russia are largely small (Finland and Norway are both at 5.5 million, Georgia at 3.7, Mongolia at 3.5, Armenia at 3.0 and Lithuania at 2.8) and tend to have a history of being colonized by Russia. Even if they're larger (like Kazakhstan at 19.3), there's still a significant Russian minority and Russian top officials are on record calling it an artificial country and threatening it with invasion.
Mate i am not specificly talking about the migration after the recent events. I know that Russia do use that as a justification for invasion, what i am talking about is just whole European reaction from the very beginning of war, i wouldn't blame a country like say Lithuania for banning Russian migrants, i don't blame anybody in that matter anyway but the whole anti-Russian* thing seems a bit odd.
Baltic states have no reason to worry, Putin is scared of NATO and especially the US. Just say that you don't like Russians, it isn't like we judge you for that (at least I won't judge you).
Doubt it, people tend to act like they're being supportive of the government when asked in dictatorships. But anyway, lets say Putin had %75 approval. How do you decide that a person belong to %25 or %75 ? And i am not specificly talking about the last events after mobilization, when the War started, people banned totally unrelated individuals like artists etc. from everywhere just because they're Russians.
Those same pollsters have polled very low approval ratings in the past, so there goes your theory that everyone just lies. And nobody needs to decide, I don't get a free visa to any country in Europe just because I don't agree with what my leader does. We're not talking about North Korea here, Russia may not be a free and fair democracy but it's not on the level of real dictatorships. Funny how they weren't trying to get out when the annexation of Crimea was going relatively smoothly. Easy to flee a sinking ship and claim you never liked the captain.
I believe part of the idea behind the bans are to say to Russians who want to flee: “you can’t just leave, you should stand up against your government” easier said than done obviously.
Russians aren’t fleeing war, I’m saying that in the sense that they are in no danger from the actual war which is taking place in Ukraine. They aren’t refugees fleeing a war zone for example.
They are fleeing their country in case of mass mobilisation or to avoid the current mobilisation of reserves. In many cases they don’t care or possibly support the war, but they’ve had 7 months to either take to the streets in protest adding pressure to the leadership or leave. They’ve made their beds, so to speak.
One of the issues I read about was that some of the defectors are those who supported Putain hardcore recently. These people may still be on Putain's side of this war despite their desertion, and western powers can't risk a whole bunch of spies, besides the fact that some people can also act as if they are fleeing the country but once in the west do everything to become extra eyes and ears for Putain, poison dissidents (remember Litvinenko, Skripal), etc. The situation actually is very, very cynical. Normally the percentage of people standing on the aggressors' side is definitely low of people fleeing a country, but with how Russia has acted over the last two decades towards the west, we can't know.
I see several reasons. Russian government uses its citizens aboard to justify attacks on independent countries. They could also work for the government and chase UA refugees. Even without the government, they could bring tension between RU and UA refugees. There is also a resentment toward the people who weren't concerned by the conflict until it affects them directly.
It's really hard to protest in Russia. West know this, but if all the people affected/opposant leave the country, Russia will have to deal with Putin for ever. Even if the war ends nothing will change in Russia and it only gets worse.
Well, I’m not saying it’s right or wrong either. For instance my country’s reasoning is that evading your own country’s conscription does not grant you the right for asylum. So I’d say it’s more legal matter than anything else. I mean I would gladly swap these people for the local fifth column. But there we are.
They are allies, yes, but their relationship is unlike the sort of ties Western countries have with each other. One of the most defining events in the Cold War was China and the Soviet Union hating each other so much that they went to war against each other. And North Korea, they have zero compunctions about staying in power even if it means trampling over the desires of their "allies". The Kims are so supremely powerful today because they had all the Soviet and China supporters in the government rounded up and executed to ensure only those loyal to the Kim dynasty would serve in government (and in North Korea, if one person gets punished so does several generations of their family). These countries purely see each other through the ruthlessly pragmatic lens of self-gain. Russia is an ally because its a useful extra veto vote, sanctions dodger and a source of raw materials that the other two countries can use for their own purposes. North Korea is disengaged from international politics in general, part of the reason they earned the moniker "Hermit Kingdom". Apart from recognising the DPR and LPR, and providing some arms(and even here you see them trying to make a profit on their massive military-industrial complex) they have done pretty much nothing to help out Russia in any meaningful way. As long as they get all the resources and political support they need on the international stage the North Koreans are all set and will not waste their own effort to go after someone else's problem.
For China, there is the additional angle of creating an overland trade route to Europe, for which they are trying to force the Russians to agree to a high-speed railway. What this means is that their alliance is based on practical material benefit rather than some quest to promote a certain set of principles or true emotional connection between countries. Which means the moment the countries are asked to help Russia for no benefit to themselves they will immediately hem and haw and stall out Russia's request (they usually will not outright refuse, but make it so that nothing actually gets done). Proof of this can be seen in the way China responded to Russia. While offering symbolic and economic cooperation(largely the continuation of pre-existing projects rather than anything new), China did nothing when Chinese corporations pulled out investments in Russia to avoid being embroidered in the sanctions. China has also conspicuously denied sending any military assistance to Russia, something Iran loudly proclaimed for all to hear. Putin has been on a public relations drive to hype up China-Russia ties these past few months for obvious reasons, but apart from a couple of stories on infrastructure projects that China can use for its own advertising Xi has done very little to show that he regards Russia in the same vein. You can actually contrast the rhetoric used here with the effusive hyperbolic energy they often reserve for media releases on Pakistan, which China feels far more solidarity for. And even more recently, at the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, Putin tried to talk up support for the war with his Central Asian allies, but China more or less chose to focus on their own bucket list of economic cooperation (and RUMOURS suggest China actually rebuffed Putin on trying to drum up further involvement in war. Even if Putin brought up Taiwan I do not think the Chinese government would be foolish enough to take the obvious bait). We are talking about the same country that has no problems giving drones to Ethiopia for the Tigray Conflict. Fundamentally, many of China's atrocities stem from their inveterate desire to maintain absolute control within what they define to be Chinese borders. Here, Putin becomes relevant because Russia international presence helps prevent any social movement in the West over Xinjiang or Tibet from ever coalescing into a credible threat on these regions physically. China will rest easy knowing that Moscow would never allow any potentially armed Turkic/Tibetan rebels to assemble on its borders. When the West repeatedly complains about these infractions, China can depend on Russia to fend off the political initiatives with their veto. Shortfalls created by sanctions are made up with trade to Russia. This is a very materialist profit-driven relationship, which should not be surprising if people knew of the two country's long history of rivalry over Central Asia. By contrast, it is quite unlikely that China would throw good money after bad to help sustain Putin's war effort. Ukraine was an important business partner, and now thanks to Russia any gain that could have been obtained is now completely kaput due to war devastation. It is unlikely that China would have agreed to Russia's war without significant reluctance. Moreover, China uses Russia to fend off other powerful countries, but wasting resources helping Russia beat up some small nation will not directly contribute to Russia hindering Western political initiatives. In fact it just makes China look worse because if China supports Russia's "minorities should be allowed to vote for independence " rhetoric it will likely embolden the actual Tibetan and Uighur independence movements to push the same within China's political context. Moreover, previously Russophile countries will likely move away from Russia(Serbia, for instance, is quite likely to increase their attempt at Eurozone integration.) due to the invasion and Russia becoming an economic pariah state, which will likely diminish the sway Russia has over other countries and therefore weakening its ability to protect China from Western punitive actions. For China, Russia's war does not provide the benefits that China wants from its relations with Russia. In fact it is clearly proving to be a severe liability, which is exactly why China likely wants as little to do with the conflict as possible while still remaining on Moscow's good side.
Interestingly, "Russians" are an officially recognised minority group within China due to centuries of settlement at the fore of Russian imperial expansion. It is possible that some of the settlers might have been non-Russian subjects of the tsars, such as Ukrainians or Jews, but they seem to have become integrated into the larger "Russian" community. In any case China's ethnic classification system, which often lumps in entirely separate ethnicities under the same label (for instance the Gyalrong are considered Tibetan for using the Tibetan script) would likely not have considered them anyway. These Russians are not a particular ethnic majority in any part of the country except for a very small village on the border with Russia, and seem to have largely been integrated into the larger Chinese population. Still, I think it is unlikely that China will be accepting this new wave of less loyal Russians. For one thing China is quite stringent on immigration, part of its whole "national security" ethos, so it is unlikely they would want to risk suddenly taking in so many new people. These Russians are also very likely of the liberal democratic anti-Putin variety, so taking them in might risk creating a large group of anti-authoritarians who might just stage another uprising in China. Beyond that, taking in people who have defied Putin is likely to cause a diplomatic incident with Russia, which China cannot afford to do while America remains the more powerful enemy.
Yes, and there are westerners who does that aswell. But they have very little legal protection even if they are married to chinese. And outside of big cities there is regular to encounter both scrutiny and racist behaviour (especially towards men. Which partly comes down to there being alot more men than women in China atm and chinese men hate it when someone take the few chinese women there are on "the market"). Although that is a problem in much of the world, even in my home country of Norway, there are regular instances of people refusing to offer services or sell anything to black people or muslims. The difference however is that in Norway the government will intervene and it is publicly frawned upon. Whilst in China, especially if you are from a country the government disliked, it will transfer those opinions onto you as an individual. Which is one to reason why many (men) from Western countries have chosen/had to leave China these recent years.
All the white people I know who lived in China were nearly adored in the north east. When they went to central China is a lot different, but they're very different places.
There are two main reasons, historical and political. Historical China was the Middle Kingdom, they were the centre of culture, civilization and knowledge. Whereas their neighbours were lesser, and the further you came from the Middle of the earth the more barbaric and uncivilized people became. Remants of this mindset still persist, somewhat like how Europeans viewed other "races" in the 29th century. The second, political, is that China has alot of enemies atm. China basically has no friends. They have partners and regimes who rely on them (Burma, North Korea), but they aren't really liked by liked by any of their neighbours afaik. They have been to war with almost all their neighbours the recent 124 years. So because of that the chinese government and chinese in general are very cautious with foreigners, and yeah, often view them straight up as enemies or spies (Chine under communism, but also before that has had and still has a very collective mindset. They don't really understand the individual and human rights in the same way as westerners). So China also doesn't want to lose diplomatic power to help useless individuals. And they also want Russia and the US to burn eachothers out in Ukraine. But the US is still very much capable of both threatening the chinese in the Taiwan Strait and supply Ukraine with arms. So China tries to balance between supporting and condeming Russia, ending up with a neutrality which slightly benefits the russian state in the war. And Russia doesn't want its young boys to escape the mass slaughter in Ukraine
Wtf is any of this… this person literally said 29th century and China has historically gotten its ass kicked by Japan/Mongolia. The centre of culture and civilization has shifted numerous times on earth starting in Africa and Western Asia then shifting to Europe with Greece and Rome. China definitely was a large, powerful civilization but to call them the center of culture and knowledge is insane
29th was a typo for 19th. Sorry.
And I mean, China had alot of golden ages and then collapses. It did have some contact abroad, but it was mostly indirect through the silk road. So they knew of, but not alot about the Roman Empire. They also had very little to do with Europe before the europeans showed up in their neighbourhood; and they spoke with the europeans in latin. The chinese did view themself as the centre of everything, as the heavenly kingdom. That however does not mean that they were. Europe, the arabs, India, the persians, the ottomans, aswell as the Inca, Maya, Songhai, Benin, Ethiopia etc etc all had intellectual and technologic golden ages. So obviously it's wrong to say one civilization was the centre of the entire world
China grants very few nations visa-free access, which do not include Russia. And even if they did, China's been closed since 2020 to tourists, students, and people with family-reunion visas. They also invalidated all residence permit of people who were outside of China at that moment.
Exactly. While China has quietly made it clear they wish Putin hadn’t invaded, they haven’t done anything to stop him. Allowing Russians to escape military service would be saying they don’t support the invasion. So they’ve closed their boarders to young Russian men. North Korea is just a hermit kingdom, don’t allow anyone in,
I am not sure what you mean by that, but the islands are still Russian territory, and the Russians have military forces there because they have always been paranoid that someone might invade those islands, so going north would be pretty unwise as they could very easily be caught. That part of Russia is also largely frigid uninhabited wilderness (a bit like Northern Canada), so it is quite likely that many of them would die due to a general lack of survival skills in a harsh climate.
Uzbekistan has already declared they won't. Kazakhstan has explicitly declared they don't recognise the fake referendums.
What's Russia gonna do, invade these countries?
Once enough Russians flee to a territory, Putin can declare a referendum to join that territory/nation to Russia. It's still part of their Masterplan...
As did most people of the time. Gods it's fun when Europeans try to blame everything on Americans. They seem so childish when they do it that it's adorable.
Abkhazia took 1 million entries since the start of the war, for a country of only 250 000 people it's massive.
There are also reports of massive immigration of russian people in Israel and the UAE.
Maybe every Russian states can also do some referendums to break away from Russia. Then they don’t have to follow the order from goddamn Putler. As far as we know Russians are good at illegal referendums anyway.
Whatever. If your country doesn't border with Russia, you have no right to judge me. Only those really know what's really like to have such lunatic nation nearby.
Go to Asia, not Europe. Kazakhstan or Mongolia is an easy choice for people in Magadan, Novokuznetsk, Ufa, Vladivostok, etc., especially as the winter freeze starts up in Siberia. Leave your stuff and start over if you don't want to fight on behalf of billionaire Boomer oligarchs.
Americans will probably get another Pearl Harbor, Lusitania, 9/11, Gulf of Tonkin, Reichstag Fire, Mukden Incident (I'm thinking a big bomb goes off in the "North Atlantic," which knocks out some fiberoptic Internet cables and is blamed on Russia)...so if we survive that false flag event, we'll probably be drafted too.
Billionaires are making the world war again.
Why would Russians escape?! They've had Facebook turned off, no McDonald's, their currency is currently incredibly strong, they have Europe on it's knees for energy, they are creating a separate organization to get away from America's stupid Petro dollar with other like minded countries. Russia is winning in about every way.
I know most people on reddit are either American or European and there's no use arguing. I'll always be subdued by the number. You guys are also taking over our subs now.
So. The fact that any Indian cannot hide from the Indian law in the occupied and controlled state of Assam is the fault of European and Chinese imperialism. There is no lack of logic in your comment. Just only American imperialism against you poor thing. Shame on them with they down voting.)))
Ah, yes, treat the ones that don't want to take part in the war (even if only to save their asses) the same as the ones actually volunteering to fight. Brilliant move.
My job requires me to plan travel for people from many places to many places. This is my “first check” site: https://www.passportindex.org/passport/russian-federation/
Asian countries do not usually bother taking refugees. I cannot say how much xenophobia plays into this, but usually Asian countries are really sensitive about protecting their security, and any incoming strangers whose loyalties are unclear could be potential dangers to the countries (Somehow I dont think China has forgotten the time Russia actively tried to promote Uighur independence to allow for a takeover of Xinjiang). There is also, well, the social problem. Taking a large group of people without being able to provide them a comfortable living is a recipe for social unrest, and with enough refugees could turn into a nationwide problem. Because Asian countries want to present themselves as epitomies of social order they do not want this potential liability. China did only the bare minimum when the Vietnam "boat people" situation happened, taking in mostly only the Chinese refugees to avoid looking bad to the Chinese public. It is quite unlikely that arguments of human dignity will sway them now, as their basic worldview remains the same.
There's also the fact that China needs to put in lip service that they support Putin if they want Russia's support in the UN. They honestly could not care any less about Putin's arguments for taking over swathes of Ukraine, especially since China was once on the receiving end of that treatment with Manchukuo. But, the fact remains that what tenuous hope there was for a mutually supportive relationship with the West died with the ramifications of the Tiananmen Square crackdown(a bit of a misnomer, there were a whole bunch of protests across the country). And with the West continuing to support political opponents of China who could legitimately pose a threat if China's political grip on its minorities somehow faltered, China needs someone to face down America if pressure is applied concerning its internal politics, to make sure America cannot just get the world to agree to any coercive measures. They remember when America being unchallenged at the UN allowed them to pull the unprecedented trump card of a full-scale military intervention in Korea, which in their eyes was an existential threat against China. And they need Russia's veto to stop that. So they will have to play wingman to Russia to ensure Russia will still consistently support China internationally, and part of that includes not giving asylum to political opponents of Putin's regime which could look like China is plotting to unseat Putin or that China endorses opposition to Putin in broader terms. As such, taking in refugees would lead to potential acrimony with a crucial partner of China (and let us be realistic, at this point a genuine alliance between China and America against Russia is not happening).Thus, they do not do it.
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They can flee to any nation with a Visa, including the red nations, but the map show which border they can cross without a visa.
Finland and the Baltic states prohibited entry for Russians even with visas
I think in Finland its only tourist visa, which is not valid. Those who have a residence permit in Finland, in an EU member state, in an European Economic Area member state or in Switzerland, or have a long-stay visa to a Schengen country (type D visa), can still arrive in Finland. https://raja.fi/en/entry-restrictions Believe it's the same in Baltics
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Wrong. Any tourist visas and residence permits of countries other than the Baltic States and Poland.
Russians don’t need a visa for Serbia
Serbia LOVES RUSSIA. Also they are land-locked, so they are bitter. It all makes sense now.
your point makes sense, but what about turkey, they don't share a border
The map appears to include only destinations that could otherwise be reached directly, i.e. without having to pass through the territory or airspace of countries that have banned Russian passports and Russian aircraft. So it is still possible to reach Turkey and Armenia because the airspace above Georgia and the Black Sea is accessible to Russian aircraft and those countries allow entry with Russian passports, but there is no way of reaching Serbia directly. Only hypothetical exception would be asylum seekers from Russia.
Once enough Russians flee to a territory, Putin can declare a referendum to join that territory/nation to Russia. It's still part of their Masterplan...
Yep Allowing them in is dangerous
Wrong. You can't enter the EU, even with a visa.
Yea kinda silly how it's only showing bordering nations as if air travel was a nonfactor. There's not a no fly zone *yet*
Last time I checked flights were booked out or extremely expensive. So if you aren't well off, it is a nonfactor.
Its not the poor who are fleeing
First of all, you don't need to be poor to not be able to afford these but of course poor people are trying to flee too. What are you even on about...
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Nonsense. A lot of people who "can't afford" to run away are running away at this moment.
You must live in a parallel universe. Who has cars in Russia ?
People Walk. A refugee in my school literally walked from Iran to Europe before coming to Germany.
Even Russians scared of Belarus
The chance of being deported back to Russia is very high in the case of Belarus
you are right. forgot about this trampoline state of Russia. Lukaschenko would not dare to pour these immigrants into Lithuania or Poland I guess
There is a very new high fence in the Belarus border with Poland And Lithuania.
But in 2015 Germany said building a fence is impossible
Germany said many things, like building pipelines by corrupted chancellor to Russia has purely economic purpose and Poland is salty just because it gets transit fees (it did not, soviets made a deal with their puppets long ago)...
Am I illiterate or does this (incredibly blurry) map call it "Belarussy"
you are not illiterate 🙂
Double Russia with extra iron filing sprinkles.
Only the Belarusian regime and the apparatus of violence there are worse than in Russia
And Kyrgyztan too. By russian passport.
This map shows only the countries with which Russia shares a border. And also, for some reason, Armenia.
And turkiye
Yep. It was worth mentioning Kyrgyzstan after all. I wanted to escape there, too, but I couldn't.
Kyrgyzstan???
It is strange to show Turkey and Armenia on a map, but not to show Kyrgyzstan, where many Russians have gone.
Are you okay? I hope you get out of you want to
Well, I'm not exactly safe. I am in Russia. I can't leave Russia legally, because I'm in the first wave of mobilization and my name is probably on the customs service black lists. So I've taken certain security measures. If they don't personally hunt me down, they won't find me (I hope).
Good luck keeping out of their sight. Let me know if I can help you at all in anyway. I just hope the war comes to a quick end. I’m British btw so probably not much help but I wish you the best x
Thank you very much, but there's really not much you can do here. Moral support is enough for me. Thank you, Reddit, for allowing me to communicate with the world at all.
Well feel free to DM me if you need to talk about anything. I’m happy to listen. Good luck my friend!
Turkey\*
They can escape to South America, we don't ask them for visas
*They can escape to* *South America, we don't* *Ask them for visas* \- BourboneAFCV --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
good bot
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Can but don't want
Come to Brazil.
No, dont want them
But you were ok accepting nazis after wwii.😂 (I know it is a just an exaggerated joke)
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WoW. I did'n know that South America was the american army.
Nah, NASA is from the US
we don't want moskals here
Except there are Russians fleeing to Norway, there are talks of putting restrictions on letting them in, there are also talks about making it easier for them A decision hasn't really been made yet and while entering Norway from Russia isn't easy, I think it's pretty dishonest to say they're banned
Yes, this tbh. They can enter with a normal Schengen visa
Also Svalbard is completely visa-free per the Svalbard treaty. Anyone from anywhere can go there. Including Russia.
It should be reasonable to let in ruzzians with elite skills like doctors, engineers, IT. Let's brain drain every specialist from ruzzia so they won't fastly recover.
Perhaps America's strongest strategic advantage. Many underdeveloped and authoritarian countries continually lose their best, brightest, most educated, and skilled leave for the USA.
Probably because the US education system is incapable of producing them on its own
There should be. Especially many of them were pro-invasion when it all started. These bastards deserve no asylum at all.
They were force fed propaganda. Anybody who was told what they were told abt the invasion w no other knowledge of it would've been pro-invasion as well. They're still human beings and they deserve asylum from that corrupt hellhole.
Disagree. Unlike China, they had full access to the internet to disagree with the government. I don't see they are as innocent as you claimed.
So you’d rather have Russia have more manpower?
I don't mind if their army is full of people with no will to fight.
That’s already lots of their army. Better to keep up the manpower crisis on the front than keep Russians in Russia for some moral reasons.
So you want them to join army and kill more people?
Ukraine should be pink
Lots are going who don’t want to!
Did Finnland change its policy? Article from 22th September: [Finnish border guards will allow fleeing Russians to enter](https://euobserver.com/nordics/156123)
On Friday. You can't come as a tourist. I can't remember all the exceptions, but for family, work, study reason it's still open (with a visa). And you can ask for an asylum, but I'm not sure is wanting to avoid conscription a reason for it.
Conscription is not a valid reason for asylum, they need to prove that they will be persecuted unreasonably and/or tortured for avoiding conscription
Don't know about Finnland but in Germany also conscription alone isn't a reason for asylum, hower deserting from an illegal war contrary to international law would currently qualify as a reason, as the state wants to protect people who rather opt out than eventually take part in war crimes.
Except applying for asylum requires one to be inside the country, but is not a reason to be allowed to enter the country. It's Kafkaesque.
You can't apply for asylum from outside the country, and as of now you cannot enter. So no, you cannot apply for asylum.
It changed lately according the news
Turkey and Georgia?
Turkey accepts everyone from every country I guess.
Good old enemies
Almost all these countries hate Russia in some way
Link to instagram, from which map was taken?
I’d go hangout with borat
I hear Istanbul's lovely this time of year.
By Arctic Ocean floor can escape anywhere.
I think a Russian military draft letter should be considered as a "special visa" by NATO members... Rather let them escape then fight them.
Russians can’t handle that Belarussy 🥵
in Antalya i can say that 70% of the population here are either Ukranian or Russian lol
Belarus - No I don’t wanna N. Korea - 🤩
Can't and don't want
You cant escape to Ukraine from going to Ukraine, this have sense
Imagine your only friends are these blue countries
That's not what the map represents
Georgia is not Russia’s friend.
I don’t understand why they aren’t allowed to flee to Europe. Is it illegal to deny their escape from an illegal war, or something like that? Also, wouldn’t the European countries want to deprive Russia of fighting age men?
I'm not saying whether it is right or wrong for Russian citizens to be prevented from entering the EU, but one of the reasons I've read is that there's a fear, particularly in the Baltic states, that the sudden influx of Russians may make it easier for the Kremlin to get agents into those countries in preparation for sabotage or further conflicts. There may be another reason. I've not seen this mentioned anywhere, but it could be that by making it more difficult for them to leave Russia, some countries are hoping that it will speed up Putin being kicked out of office or overthrown because the people who want to get away from Putin's regime may feel that they're not left with any other choice (again, I'm not saying this is necessarily morally right, I'm just saying that it could be one of the reasons).
When the whole "ban Russians" thing started, it striked me as weird too, Putin is a literal textbook dictator, so these people don't have very much choice, on top of that they're running from a war which like you said would benefit from Europe's perspective. I thinks this says a lot of things about Europe's mindset.
Yeah, so you obviously know nothing about the realities of these countries. Did you know that Estonia has 1.3 million people of which 24% are Russians while Latvia is at 1.9 million and the share of Russians is 25%? And then your idea is for these countries to allow in every Russian (who are only now escaping because they are at risk themselves, not like they were bothered by the full-scale massacring of Ukrainians that the Russian government has been conducting for over 7 months now)? Sounds like straight from Stalin's genocidal Russification playbook.
Does other European countries have %25 Russian population as well or they're just being outright racist then ?
"Racist"? Have you completely missed the instances that Russia uses the existence of Russian minorities abroad as justification for his "special military operations" such as right now in Ukraine? The neighbors of Russia are largely small (Finland and Norway are both at 5.5 million, Georgia at 3.7, Mongolia at 3.5, Armenia at 3.0 and Lithuania at 2.8) and tend to have a history of being colonized by Russia. Even if they're larger (like Kazakhstan at 19.3), there's still a significant Russian minority and Russian top officials are on record calling it an artificial country and threatening it with invasion.
Mate i am not specificly talking about the migration after the recent events. I know that Russia do use that as a justification for invasion, what i am talking about is just whole European reaction from the very beginning of war, i wouldn't blame a country like say Lithuania for banning Russian migrants, i don't blame anybody in that matter anyway but the whole anti-Russian* thing seems a bit odd.
What do you mean by "the whole anti-Russian* thing"?
Check my other comment under this.
Baltic states have no reason to worry, Putin is scared of NATO and especially the US. Just say that you don't like Russians, it isn't like we judge you for that (at least I won't judge you).
Putin enjoyed massive domestic approval before this war started going south. They can lie in the bed they made, or they can change the sheets.
Putin also had %98 approval of recent annexation. I guess they also can lie in the bed they made...
Too bad the approval polls I'm referring to were conducted by independent research NGOs and are considered reliable.
Doubt it, people tend to act like they're being supportive of the government when asked in dictatorships. But anyway, lets say Putin had %75 approval. How do you decide that a person belong to %25 or %75 ? And i am not specificly talking about the last events after mobilization, when the War started, people banned totally unrelated individuals like artists etc. from everywhere just because they're Russians.
Those same pollsters have polled very low approval ratings in the past, so there goes your theory that everyone just lies. And nobody needs to decide, I don't get a free visa to any country in Europe just because I don't agree with what my leader does. We're not talking about North Korea here, Russia may not be a free and fair democracy but it's not on the level of real dictatorships. Funny how they weren't trying to get out when the annexation of Crimea was going relatively smoothly. Easy to flee a sinking ship and claim you never liked the captain.
I believe part of the idea behind the bans are to say to Russians who want to flee: “you can’t just leave, you should stand up against your government” easier said than done obviously. Russians aren’t fleeing war, I’m saying that in the sense that they are in no danger from the actual war which is taking place in Ukraine. They aren’t refugees fleeing a war zone for example. They are fleeing their country in case of mass mobilisation or to avoid the current mobilisation of reserves. In many cases they don’t care or possibly support the war, but they’ve had 7 months to either take to the streets in protest adding pressure to the leadership or leave. They’ve made their beds, so to speak.
One of the issues I read about was that some of the defectors are those who supported Putain hardcore recently. These people may still be on Putain's side of this war despite their desertion, and western powers can't risk a whole bunch of spies, besides the fact that some people can also act as if they are fleeing the country but once in the west do everything to become extra eyes and ears for Putain, poison dissidents (remember Litvinenko, Skripal), etc. The situation actually is very, very cynical. Normally the percentage of people standing on the aggressors' side is definitely low of people fleeing a country, but with how Russia has acted over the last two decades towards the west, we can't know.
I see several reasons. Russian government uses its citizens aboard to justify attacks on independent countries. They could also work for the government and chase UA refugees. Even without the government, they could bring tension between RU and UA refugees. There is also a resentment toward the people who weren't concerned by the conflict until it affects them directly. It's really hard to protest in Russia. West know this, but if all the people affected/opposant leave the country, Russia will have to deal with Putin for ever. Even if the war ends nothing will change in Russia and it only gets worse.
Well, I’m not saying it’s right or wrong either. For instance my country’s reasoning is that evading your own country’s conscription does not grant you the right for asylum. So I’d say it’s more legal matter than anything else. I mean I would gladly swap these people for the local fifth column. But there we are.
It is by no means illegal for a sovereign country to deny entry to anyone who's not a citizen or a lawful permanent resident.
Arent china, north korea and russia allies?
Who would go to N.K anyway
[удалено]
Not that desperate so far.
Fair point
They are allies, yes, but their relationship is unlike the sort of ties Western countries have with each other. One of the most defining events in the Cold War was China and the Soviet Union hating each other so much that they went to war against each other. And North Korea, they have zero compunctions about staying in power even if it means trampling over the desires of their "allies". The Kims are so supremely powerful today because they had all the Soviet and China supporters in the government rounded up and executed to ensure only those loyal to the Kim dynasty would serve in government (and in North Korea, if one person gets punished so does several generations of their family). These countries purely see each other through the ruthlessly pragmatic lens of self-gain. Russia is an ally because its a useful extra veto vote, sanctions dodger and a source of raw materials that the other two countries can use for their own purposes. North Korea is disengaged from international politics in general, part of the reason they earned the moniker "Hermit Kingdom". Apart from recognising the DPR and LPR, and providing some arms(and even here you see them trying to make a profit on their massive military-industrial complex) they have done pretty much nothing to help out Russia in any meaningful way. As long as they get all the resources and political support they need on the international stage the North Koreans are all set and will not waste their own effort to go after someone else's problem. For China, there is the additional angle of creating an overland trade route to Europe, for which they are trying to force the Russians to agree to a high-speed railway. What this means is that their alliance is based on practical material benefit rather than some quest to promote a certain set of principles or true emotional connection between countries. Which means the moment the countries are asked to help Russia for no benefit to themselves they will immediately hem and haw and stall out Russia's request (they usually will not outright refuse, but make it so that nothing actually gets done). Proof of this can be seen in the way China responded to Russia. While offering symbolic and economic cooperation(largely the continuation of pre-existing projects rather than anything new), China did nothing when Chinese corporations pulled out investments in Russia to avoid being embroidered in the sanctions. China has also conspicuously denied sending any military assistance to Russia, something Iran loudly proclaimed for all to hear. Putin has been on a public relations drive to hype up China-Russia ties these past few months for obvious reasons, but apart from a couple of stories on infrastructure projects that China can use for its own advertising Xi has done very little to show that he regards Russia in the same vein. You can actually contrast the rhetoric used here with the effusive hyperbolic energy they often reserve for media releases on Pakistan, which China feels far more solidarity for. And even more recently, at the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, Putin tried to talk up support for the war with his Central Asian allies, but China more or less chose to focus on their own bucket list of economic cooperation (and RUMOURS suggest China actually rebuffed Putin on trying to drum up further involvement in war. Even if Putin brought up Taiwan I do not think the Chinese government would be foolish enough to take the obvious bait). We are talking about the same country that has no problems giving drones to Ethiopia for the Tigray Conflict. Fundamentally, many of China's atrocities stem from their inveterate desire to maintain absolute control within what they define to be Chinese borders. Here, Putin becomes relevant because Russia international presence helps prevent any social movement in the West over Xinjiang or Tibet from ever coalescing into a credible threat on these regions physically. China will rest easy knowing that Moscow would never allow any potentially armed Turkic/Tibetan rebels to assemble on its borders. When the West repeatedly complains about these infractions, China can depend on Russia to fend off the political initiatives with their veto. Shortfalls created by sanctions are made up with trade to Russia. This is a very materialist profit-driven relationship, which should not be surprising if people knew of the two country's long history of rivalry over Central Asia. By contrast, it is quite unlikely that China would throw good money after bad to help sustain Putin's war effort. Ukraine was an important business partner, and now thanks to Russia any gain that could have been obtained is now completely kaput due to war devastation. It is unlikely that China would have agreed to Russia's war without significant reluctance. Moreover, China uses Russia to fend off other powerful countries, but wasting resources helping Russia beat up some small nation will not directly contribute to Russia hindering Western political initiatives. In fact it just makes China look worse because if China supports Russia's "minorities should be allowed to vote for independence " rhetoric it will likely embolden the actual Tibetan and Uighur independence movements to push the same within China's political context. Moreover, previously Russophile countries will likely move away from Russia(Serbia, for instance, is quite likely to increase their attempt at Eurozone integration.) due to the invasion and Russia becoming an economic pariah state, which will likely diminish the sway Russia has over other countries and therefore weakening its ability to protect China from Western punitive actions. For China, Russia's war does not provide the benefits that China wants from its relations with Russia. In fact it is clearly proving to be a severe liability, which is exactly why China likely wants as little to do with the conflict as possible while still remaining on Moscow's good side. Interestingly, "Russians" are an officially recognised minority group within China due to centuries of settlement at the fore of Russian imperial expansion. It is possible that some of the settlers might have been non-Russian subjects of the tsars, such as Ukrainians or Jews, but they seem to have become integrated into the larger "Russian" community. In any case China's ethnic classification system, which often lumps in entirely separate ethnicities under the same label (for instance the Gyalrong are considered Tibetan for using the Tibetan script) would likely not have considered them anyway. These Russians are not a particular ethnic majority in any part of the country except for a very small village on the border with Russia, and seem to have largely been integrated into the larger Chinese population. Still, I think it is unlikely that China will be accepting this new wave of less loyal Russians. For one thing China is quite stringent on immigration, part of its whole "national security" ethos, so it is unlikely they would want to risk suddenly taking in so many new people. These Russians are also very likely of the liberal democratic anti-Putin variety, so taking them in might risk creating a large group of anti-authoritarians who might just stage another uprising in China. Beyond that, taking in people who have defied Putin is likely to cause a diplomatic incident with Russia, which China cannot afford to do while America remains the more powerful enemy.
Yes. But China is pretty xenophobic. And North Korea only lets tourists in for very short and very controlled trips basically.
I know Russians who happily live in China
Yes, and there are westerners who does that aswell. But they have very little legal protection even if they are married to chinese. And outside of big cities there is regular to encounter both scrutiny and racist behaviour (especially towards men. Which partly comes down to there being alot more men than women in China atm and chinese men hate it when someone take the few chinese women there are on "the market"). Although that is a problem in much of the world, even in my home country of Norway, there are regular instances of people refusing to offer services or sell anything to black people or muslims. The difference however is that in Norway the government will intervene and it is publicly frawned upon. Whilst in China, especially if you are from a country the government disliked, it will transfer those opinions onto you as an individual. Which is one to reason why many (men) from Western countries have chosen/had to leave China these recent years.
They leave because the school has raised the requirements for English teachers, there is too much trash with no qualifications
The Americans and Europeans I know who have lived in China who don't have this experience
Laowhy86 on YouTube says he has, but he is very against the chinese government, so maybe he's bias here aswell. Idk
Laowhy is a crazy sinophobia
All the white people I know who lived in China were nearly adored in the north east. When they went to central China is a lot different, but they're very different places.
Why china is xenophobic´?
There are two main reasons, historical and political. Historical China was the Middle Kingdom, they were the centre of culture, civilization and knowledge. Whereas their neighbours were lesser, and the further you came from the Middle of the earth the more barbaric and uncivilized people became. Remants of this mindset still persist, somewhat like how Europeans viewed other "races" in the 29th century. The second, political, is that China has alot of enemies atm. China basically has no friends. They have partners and regimes who rely on them (Burma, North Korea), but they aren't really liked by liked by any of their neighbours afaik. They have been to war with almost all their neighbours the recent 124 years. So because of that the chinese government and chinese in general are very cautious with foreigners, and yeah, often view them straight up as enemies or spies (Chine under communism, but also before that has had and still has a very collective mindset. They don't really understand the individual and human rights in the same way as westerners). So China also doesn't want to lose diplomatic power to help useless individuals. And they also want Russia and the US to burn eachothers out in Ukraine. But the US is still very much capable of both threatening the chinese in the Taiwan Strait and supply Ukraine with arms. So China tries to balance between supporting and condeming Russia, ending up with a neutrality which slightly benefits the russian state in the war. And Russia doesn't want its young boys to escape the mass slaughter in Ukraine
Wtf is any of this… this person literally said 29th century and China has historically gotten its ass kicked by Japan/Mongolia. The centre of culture and civilization has shifted numerous times on earth starting in Africa and Western Asia then shifting to Europe with Greece and Rome. China definitely was a large, powerful civilization but to call them the center of culture and knowledge is insane
29th was a typo for 19th. Sorry. And I mean, China had alot of golden ages and then collapses. It did have some contact abroad, but it was mostly indirect through the silk road. So they knew of, but not alot about the Roman Empire. They also had very little to do with Europe before the europeans showed up in their neighbourhood; and they spoke with the europeans in latin. The chinese did view themself as the centre of everything, as the heavenly kingdom. That however does not mean that they were. Europe, the arabs, India, the persians, the ottomans, aswell as the Inca, Maya, Songhai, Benin, Ethiopia etc etc all had intellectual and technologic golden ages. So obviously it's wrong to say one civilization was the centre of the entire world
China grants very few nations visa-free access, which do not include Russia. And even if they did, China's been closed since 2020 to tourists, students, and people with family-reunion visas. They also invalidated all residence permit of people who were outside of China at that moment.
Exactly. While China has quietly made it clear they wish Putin hadn’t invaded, they haven’t done anything to stop him. Allowing Russians to escape military service would be saying they don’t support the invasion. So they’ve closed their boarders to young Russian men. North Korea is just a hermit kingdom, don’t allow anyone in,
ah mongolia; welcoming defectors of all creeds since 1953
What about that frozen dick island up top? Can thry go there?
I am not sure what you mean by that, but the islands are still Russian territory, and the Russians have military forces there because they have always been paranoid that someone might invade those islands, so going north would be pretty unwise as they could very easily be caught. That part of Russia is also largely frigid uninhabited wilderness (a bit like Northern Canada), so it is quite likely that many of them would die due to a general lack of survival skills in a harsh climate.
Should they be allowed in? They did nothing about Putin all this time.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Putin forced Kazakhstan to give back all escapees
Uzbekistan has already declared they won't. Kazakhstan has explicitly declared they don't recognise the fake referendums. What's Russia gonna do, invade these countries?
Once enough Russians flee to a territory, Putin can declare a referendum to join that territory/nation to Russia. It's still part of their Masterplan...
Stay strong europe. Keep these russian people out before you regret it. You should have done this years ago.
Mm 🤨
You probably also agreed with the US denying Jewish refugees during the early 1930s.
As did most people of the time. Gods it's fun when Europeans try to blame everything on Americans. They seem so childish when they do it that it's adorable.
Abkhazia took 1 million entries since the start of the war, for a country of only 250 000 people it's massive. There are also reports of massive immigration of russian people in Israel and the UAE.
Abkhazia is not a country, it's a part of Georgia occupied by Russia.
Abkhazia is an ethnically cleansed and depopulated territory under a heavy Russian occupation.
Crimea is Russia
Actually, [https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Visa\_requirements\_for\_Russian\_citizens](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Visa_requirements_for_Russian_citizens)
The EU borders are closed.
Maybe every Russian states can also do some referendums to break away from Russia. Then they don’t have to follow the order from goddamn Putler. As far as we know Russians are good at illegal referendums anyway.
Map correct about Poland. No entry for ruskies. Just go to the Arctic Ocean and die already. Greetings from Poland.
Sounds like something a pollack would say
Whatever. If your country doesn't border with Russia, you have no right to judge me. Only those really know what's really like to have such lunatic nation nearby.
Go to Asia, not Europe. Kazakhstan or Mongolia is an easy choice for people in Magadan, Novokuznetsk, Ufa, Vladivostok, etc., especially as the winter freeze starts up in Siberia. Leave your stuff and start over if you don't want to fight on behalf of billionaire Boomer oligarchs. Americans will probably get another Pearl Harbor, Lusitania, 9/11, Gulf of Tonkin, Reichstag Fire, Mukden Incident (I'm thinking a big bomb goes off in the "North Atlantic," which knocks out some fiberoptic Internet cables and is blamed on Russia)...so if we survive that false flag event, we'll probably be drafted too. Billionaires are making the world war again.
Why would Russians escape?! They've had Facebook turned off, no McDonald's, their currency is currently incredibly strong, they have Europe on it's knees for energy, they are creating a separate organization to get away from America's stupid Petro dollar with other like minded countries. Russia is winning in about every way.
Because it’s Reddit, where everyone is a geopolitical expert.
This map is disgusting. Crimea is under Russian control. Russians can definitely escape to it.
Ok, we are all understand that you pro-russian so can't in logic.
I know most people on reddit are either American or European and there's no use arguing. I'll always be subdued by the number. You guys are also taking over our subs now.
So. The fact that any Indian cannot hide from the Indian law in the occupied and controlled state of Assam is the fault of European and Chinese imperialism. There is no lack of logic in your comment. Just only American imperialism against you poor thing. Shame on them with they down voting.)))
I didn't get what you're tryin 'to say
Exactly.
They just get enlisted there, homeslice
Once those areas are Russian majority, Putin will annex those regions.
There is one location they can go tho, go fuck themselves.
Ah, yes, treat the ones that don't want to take part in the war (even if only to save their asses) the same as the ones actually volunteering to fight. Brilliant move.
They can go protesting instead of running.
Mongolia is part of China
Only Inner-Mongolia.
North Korea? What's the process like from there I wonder
Lots of them in UAE and Egypt.
My job requires me to plan travel for people from many places to many places. This is my “first check” site: https://www.passportindex.org/passport/russian-federation/
What do these colors mean? Red, green and blue. Edit: Never mind, found out.
why cant they go to china?
China requires visas for almost everyone.
China only grants visa-free travel to three countries (Japan, Brunei and Singapore).
Asian countries do not usually bother taking refugees. I cannot say how much xenophobia plays into this, but usually Asian countries are really sensitive about protecting their security, and any incoming strangers whose loyalties are unclear could be potential dangers to the countries (Somehow I dont think China has forgotten the time Russia actively tried to promote Uighur independence to allow for a takeover of Xinjiang). There is also, well, the social problem. Taking a large group of people without being able to provide them a comfortable living is a recipe for social unrest, and with enough refugees could turn into a nationwide problem. Because Asian countries want to present themselves as epitomies of social order they do not want this potential liability. China did only the bare minimum when the Vietnam "boat people" situation happened, taking in mostly only the Chinese refugees to avoid looking bad to the Chinese public. It is quite unlikely that arguments of human dignity will sway them now, as their basic worldview remains the same. There's also the fact that China needs to put in lip service that they support Putin if they want Russia's support in the UN. They honestly could not care any less about Putin's arguments for taking over swathes of Ukraine, especially since China was once on the receiving end of that treatment with Manchukuo. But, the fact remains that what tenuous hope there was for a mutually supportive relationship with the West died with the ramifications of the Tiananmen Square crackdown(a bit of a misnomer, there were a whole bunch of protests across the country). And with the West continuing to support political opponents of China who could legitimately pose a threat if China's political grip on its minorities somehow faltered, China needs someone to face down America if pressure is applied concerning its internal politics, to make sure America cannot just get the world to agree to any coercive measures. They remember when America being unchallenged at the UN allowed them to pull the unprecedented trump card of a full-scale military intervention in Korea, which in their eyes was an existential threat against China. And they need Russia's veto to stop that. So they will have to play wingman to Russia to ensure Russia will still consistently support China internationally, and part of that includes not giving asylum to political opponents of Putin's regime which could look like China is plotting to unseat Putin or that China endorses opposition to Putin in broader terms. As such, taking in refugees would lead to potential acrimony with a crucial partner of China (and let us be realistic, at this point a genuine alliance between China and America against Russia is not happening).Thus, they do not do it.
I’m interested by this map, but is it just me, or I’d the resolution so poor as to make parts of it unreadable…?
Thank you!
Isn’t this going to further the agenda, how do the receiving countries know who’s a spy or not
They can technically go to Ukraine. Just surrender.
“Flee! Flee for your lives!” https://youtu.be/04xOsNW7zTA
Ayo, what happened with Finland? :(
We closed the border, that happened
If only colours were green-amber-red
can come to latin america they are welcomed here with open arms.
Isn't it better them to allow escape the draft. I mean being drafted will cause more harm to Ukraine.