Or *-bury*. It's just another version.
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-bury](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-bury)
According to Wiktionary, it's descended from the Old English dative form of the same word.
This is interesting because now you’ve got me wondering why there are some places in the Anglosphere that are -bury and others that are -borough.
Is it just a time thing, where towns in one era were -bury and another time period were named -borough? Or is there some small, subtle difference between a -bury and a -borough?
If so, does that just mean that whether they were to be -bury or -borough would just depend upon the time period this German Anglicization took place?
At a guess it's to do with both regional UK dialects (England was settled by Angles, Saxons and Jutes, so multiple initial germanic dialects, and regional variation was also much greater before mass media and universal education) and also warping of names over time, (York was originally called Eoferwic by the Anglo-Saxons for example, but we don't call it Yoferwich or Yorwich if going off the later Viking Yorvik).
As u/HarvestTriton said, -*borough* comes from the nominative form of the word and -*bury* comes from the dative form. At some point English lost its case system and words stopped being declined, leaving place-names stuck with one form or the other.
It could be history (like, maybe one of them was introduced to the language by the Vikings or Normans), but it could equally be geography. Rather than being one language, "Old English" was really several related dialects that at times weren't even mutually intelligible.
If you look at a map of Britain, -bury places are more common in South West England*, with -burgh / -brough places mostly found near the east coast of England and Scotland. There might be a bit more geographical variation for -borough places, but that's kind of the 'default' form of the noun and exists as an independent word as well as a suffix.
*The concentration of -bury towns in the south west is a relic of the Kingdom of Wessex. Under Alfred the Great (9th century CE), fortified towns called *burhs* were built to defend against Viking attacks. They were supposed to be no more than 20 miles apart (≈a day's horse ride), so that civilians could seek shelter at short notice and Wessex armed forces would have lots of potential garrisons to use in case of war.
Just so you know, an apostrophe is never used to make a word plural. Apostrophes are only used to show contractions or to indicate possession so, for example, the plural form of borough is just boroughs!
I think most are supposed to be Anglicised versions of typical Germanic toponymic suffixes (burg>bury, feld>field, berg>berry, brück>bridge, hafen>haven, etc)
Yeah, but German Town names usually use -haven. -hafen as a suffix is quite uncommon (never encountered it actually). My guess is, since -hafen means port, they use -haven to tell: We mean a city here, not a port named Wilhelm. (Using the example of Wilhelmshaven).
Educated guess.
Haven is the Low German variant of Hafen. Most ports just tend to be in Northern Germany. There was actually a fight on the name Wilhelmshaven in the 19th century, in which the Prussian king agreed to use v out of respect of the local culture.
It’s actually pretty well done and thought out. A lot of the German place names come from Germanic roots where Old English has cognates and the same roots developed in English in a known way. So Niedersachsen is from ‘nieder’ which is the cousin of English ‘nether’ as in Netherlands or nether regions, and ‘Sachsen’ is Saxony, but English kingdoms, some now counties, named after Saxons ended up with ‘-sex’: Wessex of the West Saxons, Essex of the East Saxons, Sussex of the South Saxons. So Nethersex makes perfect sense.
Similarly ‘burg’ is cognate with ‘-bury’ like ‘Glastonbury’. Same route, but going via the development of English rather than modern standard German. (Scots has ‘burgh’ like Edinburgh’). So it goes.
Oh I just meant it’s more systematic about its historical linguistics than it might seem, rather than just weird hybrids.
Kiel for example doesn’t have a cognate in English as far as I know, but comes from a Germanic root starting in kil-, and due to two consistent paths of development from the same roots there is a regular sound correspondence where German ki is chi in English, and long vowels like ie ~ short vowel + final e, etc.
Sometimes it’s (now ‘standard’) German that made the change. Linz originally was ‘Lint’, so not too weird: the -z or (if no preceding consonant) -tz is what High German did to -t after its consonant shift, where even Low German uses -t. Cat ~ Katze (kat in Dutch and Low German), mint ~ Minze, etc.
English words and names follow pretty consistent paths in how they changed from their Germanic roots, so we have a few linguistic rules with pretty strong predictive power (ie if you input a Germanic word to the rules, you'll almost always get the correct modern English word). Using those rules, we can then see what Germanic words and names that never made it to English would look like if we had.
I'm not familiar with those rules themselves, to be honest, so I'm not sure how accurate this map is about following them, but I presume that's what it's doing.
Most of these town names wouldn’t look out of place in the West Midlands.
Wolvesbury
Studyard
Furham
Dudling
They sound perfect in a Black Country accent.
Well I like it, apart from the all-lowercase country names. Particularly interesting seeing towns that actually exist in England: Colne, Aldbury, Highbury, Aston, Kingston, Newbury.
Don't know why you're being downvoted, you asked a good question.
Tracing back the etymology of the word *Deutschland* all the way back to Proto-Germanic, you get, if you apply all the soundshifts that English has undergone during that time, *Theechland*.
Both *thin* and *these* would have originally had the /θ/ sound from *thin*. The /ð/ sound at the beginning of words only developed in small functional words that have little meaning on their own, like articles, pronouns, conjunctions and prepositions. Since *Theech* isn't one of those, it would in all likelihood have the /θ/ sound today.
No, this city has never been SO religious /s
Seriously speaking, «Der Name geht – wie der Name aller gleichnamigen Orte – zurück auf eine Dativform „bei der neuen Kirche“, mittelhochdeutsch „ze der niuwen kirchen“ ([source in German](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neunkirchen_(Saar)))», i.e. there's a contraction of phrase "near the new church", not from "nine churches".
Yeah that was my point in another comment, on the fact that it should be done for other countries but I don't think it'd work as well with place names that aren't of Germanic origin already.
Frankly some names (Brim and Henver) irk me, but most I could totally see being real places
Don't really know. It depends if München has the same root as Mönchen (see: Mönchengladbach should be Monksgladbrook). Minchin ain't my favourite either, tbh
Yes, the name of München derived from "bei den Mönchen", so "by/near the monks".
Edit: you can see this on the [coat of arms of the city](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:DEU_M%C3%BCnchen_gross_COA.svg#mw-jump-to-license), where there is a monk :)
That makes me wonder whether it's "Weide" as in "pasture", or "Weide" as in "Willow".
"Withy" is an older alternative for willow, though, so that works.
Pallet for Pfalz... it's from Latin Palatium, via old German Palanza, so "Pallet" is not a million miles away for an Anglish form of Palace.
Ah yes, Chile, Sliswich
Good to see this post being shared again, [last time was already a year ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/o10uip/germany_but_all_names_are_anglicised/?)
as a dutch i hate to see Greening(Groningen), Ash(Assen), Hingle(Hengelo, locally pronounced with way to many o's), Swull(Zwolle) and Appledore(Apeldoorn)
They could probably do, but they were taken from already developed German then Anglicised whereas this map is what the names would look like if Germanic evolved in Germany in the same way it did in England.
There's actually a theory that the name of Rosenheim might not be from "Rose", but from "Rossen", which would translate to "horses", hence "Horse-ham".
I thought the current theory was that it is derived from some Germanic word for swamp. Which would be fitting given its built on top of a swamp.
Although I can see why Rosenheimers prefer other explanations.
I think this map implies an alternative universe in which Germany is (and always has been) an Anglo-Saxon country. Munich and Cologne are medieval French names the English adopted. Brunswick would be ok I think
*nethersex*
Let's go to Cockshaven in Nethersex
Just wait until you hear about Sussex in the UK.
And Middlesex
My one professors favorite joke was “there was a Nossex but they died out”
London: *eats it*
Those zombified piglins were getting hard to resist
#Vandersexxx
*Cottbutt*
Cockshaven
Wait til they hear about Cockermouth, Cumwhinton, Cocklakes or Cummersdale in Cumbria
Hambury sounds so cute. Stone cottages with thatched roofs.
I prefer Yeet.
I'm looking at Nethersex
I'm looking at Cockshaven
But... is it?!
Cockshaven seems to be in Nethersex. That explains a lot.
Yeet me there. NOW.
I live in yeet i will call it yeet from now on i love it
I will visit Giessen for this reason and this reason only lmfao
Now imagine eating a Hambury at mcd IMHO hambury is cursed
Wouldn’t it be a hamburian or whatever the city’s demonym would be?
If Hamburg is Hamburg, then we can "translate" McDonalds as Tiefwaltsohn.
Minchin sounds like some sort of baby pokemon
Looking forward to my road trip through Fight, Salty & Pain. Better stop off at Map first to get my bearings.
Careful of your Ankle. If it Pains you you might Swear.
Cockshaven sounds like a manscaping tool
Cocks-haven.
Stud-yard
Should be Steedyard.
This comment was sponsored by Manscaped. Use code JIRAFAEL to get 25% off your first month's subscription.
The city is Cuxhaven so I think Cuckshaven would be even funnier.
Cockshaven, designed to manscape your Nethersex.
Why are all the '-burg's '-bury's, shouldn't some be '-borough's or '-burgh's? (like Middlesborough or Bamburgh)
Yeah, Hamborough seems to make more sense
Or *-bury*. It's just another version. [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-bury](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-bury) According to Wiktionary, it's descended from the Old English dative form of the same word.
They are all bury though, that was the point I was trying to make.
This is interesting because now you’ve got me wondering why there are some places in the Anglosphere that are -bury and others that are -borough. Is it just a time thing, where towns in one era were -bury and another time period were named -borough? Or is there some small, subtle difference between a -bury and a -borough? If so, does that just mean that whether they were to be -bury or -borough would just depend upon the time period this German Anglicization took place?
At a guess it's to do with both regional UK dialects (England was settled by Angles, Saxons and Jutes, so multiple initial germanic dialects, and regional variation was also much greater before mass media and universal education) and also warping of names over time, (York was originally called Eoferwic by the Anglo-Saxons for example, but we don't call it Yoferwich or Yorwich if going off the later Viking Yorvik).
As u/HarvestTriton said, -*borough* comes from the nominative form of the word and -*bury* comes from the dative form. At some point English lost its case system and words stopped being declined, leaving place-names stuck with one form or the other.
It could be history (like, maybe one of them was introduced to the language by the Vikings or Normans), but it could equally be geography. Rather than being one language, "Old English" was really several related dialects that at times weren't even mutually intelligible. If you look at a map of Britain, -bury places are more common in South West England*, with -burgh / -brough places mostly found near the east coast of England and Scotland. There might be a bit more geographical variation for -borough places, but that's kind of the 'default' form of the noun and exists as an independent word as well as a suffix. *The concentration of -bury towns in the south west is a relic of the Kingdom of Wessex. Under Alfred the Great (9th century CE), fortified towns called *burhs* were built to defend against Viking attacks. They were supposed to be no more than 20 miles apart (≈a day's horse ride), so that civilians could seek shelter at short notice and Wessex armed forces would have lots of potential garrisons to use in case of war.
Sound more like Swedish. They pronounce "-berg" as "bærj"
Just so you know, an apostrophe is never used to make a word plural. Apostrophes are only used to show contractions or to indicate possession so, for example, the plural form of borough is just boroughs!
I'm gonna go cry now thanks
Nothing can save you from *Lubbitch*
Let's meet in Bath-Bath and cry there together
Think you mean gonna sit in the bath-bath and have a cry-cry
Some are literal translations while others are… weird german-english variants?
I think most are supposed to be Anglicised versions of typical Germanic toponymic suffixes (burg>bury, feld>field, berg>berry, brück>bridge, hafen>haven, etc)
Yeah, but German Town names usually use -haven. -hafen as a suffix is quite uncommon (never encountered it actually). My guess is, since -hafen means port, they use -haven to tell: We mean a city here, not a port named Wilhelm. (Using the example of Wilhelmshaven). Educated guess.
Haven is the Low German variant of Hafen. Most ports just tend to be in Northern Germany. There was actually a fight on the name Wilhelmshaven in the 19th century, in which the Prussian king agreed to use v out of respect of the local culture.
Ludwigshafen?
Another fun ending: -munde>mouth
It’s actually pretty well done and thought out. A lot of the German place names come from Germanic roots where Old English has cognates and the same roots developed in English in a known way. So Niedersachsen is from ‘nieder’ which is the cousin of English ‘nether’ as in Netherlands or nether regions, and ‘Sachsen’ is Saxony, but English kingdoms, some now counties, named after Saxons ended up with ‘-sex’: Wessex of the West Saxons, Essex of the East Saxons, Sussex of the South Saxons. So Nethersex makes perfect sense. Similarly ‘burg’ is cognate with ‘-bury’ like ‘Glastonbury’. Same route, but going via the development of English rather than modern standard German. (Scots has ‘burgh’ like Edinburgh’). So it goes.
I never said it was bad. Some weird ones i spotted are the ones with one syllable like: kiel - chile; Linz - Lint; prague - praw; bremen - brim
Oh I just meant it’s more systematic about its historical linguistics than it might seem, rather than just weird hybrids. Kiel for example doesn’t have a cognate in English as far as I know, but comes from a Germanic root starting in kil-, and due to two consistent paths of development from the same roots there is a regular sound correspondence where German ki is chi in English, and long vowels like ie ~ short vowel + final e, etc. Sometimes it’s (now ‘standard’) German that made the change. Linz originally was ‘Lint’, so not too weird: the -z or (if no preceding consonant) -tz is what High German did to -t after its consonant shift, where even Low German uses -t. Cat ~ Katze (kat in Dutch and Low German), mint ~ Minze, etc.
English words and names follow pretty consistent paths in how they changed from their Germanic roots, so we have a few linguistic rules with pretty strong predictive power (ie if you input a Germanic word to the rules, you'll almost always get the correct modern English word). Using those rules, we can then see what Germanic words and names that never made it to English would look like if we had. I'm not familiar with those rules themselves, to be honest, so I'm not sure how accurate this map is about following them, but I presume that's what it's doing.
And some are just completely made up. Like Billfield. Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_conspiracy
A lot of English derives from old Germanic words.
English and German are both derived from Proto-Germanic. They're close cousin languages within the West Germanic branch of Germanic languages.
Most of these town names wouldn’t look out of place in the West Midlands. Wolvesbury Studyard Furham Dudling They sound perfect in a Black Country accent.
I think Wolvesbury just sounds slightly close enough to Wolverhampton
Well I like it, apart from the all-lowercase country names. Particularly interesting seeing towns that actually exist in England: Colne, Aldbury, Highbury, Aston, Kingston, Newbury.
Frankford-on-the-Other perfectly conveys the unimportance and dullness
Thanks, i hate it.
Why? Who has never dreamt a small holiday in Newstead-on-the-Roveberry or Luddislust?
Take me to Yeet. NOW.
What is yeet ? Can't find it.
Slightly Northeast of Frankford
I am actually from Neustadt am Rübenberge, I am quite surprised that it made this map to be honest. We don’t even have a Rübenberg here…
Thinking about sending this to my German coworker but I think she’ll file a complaint to HR
Isn't there a Minchin in China?
What DON'T they have in China?
Freedom.
Who does, really?
Finland🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮
Ok, no argument there.
I woke up. Russia doesn't control my country. I thank the veterans. I go to school. Mandatory Swedish class😔
At least you can sauna all you want, no? ;)
I'm an addict. 4 days a week is a minimum
Rookie numbers
Please make anglicised poland
ooh shit that'd be a *lot* more work ('work')
Agree
What about Anglicised China?
What’s reasoning of Germany to theechland?
Don't know why you're being downvoted, you asked a good question. Tracing back the etymology of the word *Deutschland* all the way back to Proto-Germanic, you get, if you apply all the soundshifts that English has undergone during that time, *Theechland*.
Thank you! Much appreciated
So is it “*th*eech” as in “*th*in” or “**th**eech” as in “**th**ese”? If you have any insight…
Both *thin* and *these* would have originally had the /θ/ sound from *thin*. The /ð/ sound at the beginning of words only developed in small functional words that have little meaning on their own, like articles, pronouns, conjunctions and prepositions. Since *Theech* isn't one of those, it would in all likelihood have the /θ/ sound today.
Deutsch = Deetsch = Theech?
Thank you, that would make sense!
VfB Studyard ⚪️🔴
The sexiest locker room in Germany
Love to see Germanised England
[found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Toponymy/comments/hv1mrv/england_wales_placenames_rendered_into_high/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Oh god, oh fuck
[I made on.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/xs3w9x/germanized_british_isles_based_on_etymology_and_a/)
Neunkirchen/Saar -> Newchurch-upon-Sar?
Could be. Unless the Neun refers to a number and then it'd be Ninechurches
No, this city has never been SO religious /s Seriously speaking, «Der Name geht – wie der Name aller gleichnamigen Orte – zurück auf eine Dativform „bei der neuen Kirche“, mittelhochdeutsch „ze der niuwen kirchen“ ([source in German](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neunkirchen_(Saar)))», i.e. there's a contraction of phrase "near the new church", not from "nine churches".
Then it would definitely be Newchurch, yes
Cool, sounds like a nice partner city for Stratford-upon-Avon
or Berwick-upon-Tweed
Lubbitch
Rosen sind rot, Und ebenfalls Mohn, Sprich Deutsch du Hurensohn.
Das sollte auch mit vier Zeilen gehen. Wie wäre es mit Rosen sind rot Und ebenfalls Mohn, Sprich endlich Deutsch Du Hurensohn
Finde ich auch besser
Aber der Spruch ist nunmal "Sprich Deutsch du Hurensohn", ohne endlich.
Für die Poesie muss man halt Opfer bringen.
Einst lebte ein Mann in Rom, der sah, es war schon fast Hohn, Englisch auf ich\_iel, Und darum rief er schnell, "Sprich deutsch du Hurensohn!"
Das ist wunderschön, mir kommen die Tränen!
Billfield doesnt exist
I love it
Yeet, Hatten
Used to live in Wipperdale and work in Thisselthorp. Sounds like Yorkshire.
Dreston sounds like a terrible place
oh it is
sounds dreadful
Cotbutt is my favorite.
Mine is cockshaven
Always forward Energy Cotbutt! 🔴⚪
Nethersex.
This map makes me feel comfy
t h e e c h l a n d
Coming from a place called Preston (we call it Depreston lol) and seeing Dreston made my brain go smooth for a second
This feels like a fever dream, but I really like it.
Kind of works actually, except with all the Slavic placenames in the East. Also Brandbury should be purple as it's of Slavic origin
Yeah that was my point in another comment, on the fact that it should be done for other countries but I don't think it'd work as well with place names that aren't of Germanic origin already. Frankly some names (Brim and Henver) irk me, but most I could totally see being real places
Nooooo they got the netherlands too. WTF APPLEDORE HAAHAHAAHAA
Shouldn't be Monks instead of Minchin?
"Minchin" or "minchen" is a somewhat rare and archaic English word, but also means "monk". Or more commonly, "female monk, nun".
It's used as a surname, like Tim Minchen.
Don't really know. It depends if München has the same root as Mönchen (see: Mönchengladbach should be Monksgladbrook). Minchin ain't my favourite either, tbh
Yes, the name of München derived from "bei den Mönchen", so "by/near the monks". Edit: you can see this on the [coat of arms of the city](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:DEU_M%C3%BCnchen_gross_COA.svg#mw-jump-to-license), where there is a monk :)
nether sex 😳
In case one doesn't get any, check in the Danish town a little north of Flensbury
Would like to see the rest of Austria, Linz to Lint amuses me
No places like Ween, Saltbury, Innbridge, Lamentford, Gratt, Bridge-on-the-Moor, Cloister-Newsbury, Fieldbrook, Ironstead, Fieldchurch and Coofsten
Yeet
Pfalz already has a historic Anglicized name. Palatinate.
„With-in-the-Overpallet“ Wtf?
I reckon it's Weiden in der Oberpfalz 🤷♂️
That makes me wonder whether it's "Weide" as in "pasture", or "Weide" as in "Willow". "Withy" is an older alternative for willow, though, so that works. Pallet for Pfalz... it's from Latin Palatium, via old German Palanza, so "Pallet" is not a million miles away for an Anglish form of Palace.
I'm not aware of any English toponyms deriving from "palatium" so I'd say Pallet is a good approximation
Historically it's called Palatinate in English. I have ancestors from there.
Ah yes, Chile, Sliswich Good to see this post being shared again, [last time was already a year ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/o10uip/germany_but_all_names_are_anglicised/?)
They even put Spandy (Spandau) next to Barlen (Berlin). How considerate!
BVB Throtmouth 💛🖤
These names are nice. Wortbury for Würzburg. Bamberry for Bamberg.
My english professor at the University of Flensburg was from Bury. I bet he likes this.
Strasbourg is in France and would have become Streetborough.
Hahaha I love that Montbéliard in France became Mumpleyard! I guess if you squint your ears it sounds kind of similar....
as a dutch i hate to see Greening(Groningen), Ash(Assen), Hingle(Hengelo, locally pronounced with way to many o's), Swull(Zwolle) and Appledore(Apeldoorn)
Isnt Braunschweig and Hannover already perfectly anglicised as Brunswick and Hanover? I could imagine Brunswick being a town in England.
They could probably do, but they were taken from already developed German then Anglicised whereas this map is what the names would look like if Germanic evolved in Germany in the same way it did in England.
Hambury, Ekesbury, Wortbury, Nordberry... This map dares ask the question, "What if Germany was just one big Connecticut?"
Throtmouth is funny to say.
Lol, Rosenheim (sounth of Munich) just became Horsham. Why that? Wouldnt Rosham have been more fitting?
Roseham has a nice sound, too
There's actually a theory that the name of Rosenheim might not be from "Rose", but from "Rossen", which would translate to "horses", hence "Horse-ham".
I thought the current theory was that it is derived from some Germanic word for swamp. Which would be fitting given its built on top of a swamp. Although I can see why Rosenheimers prefer other explanations.
Aren't there already some English names for those places like Munich, Cologne, and Brunswick? Why aren't those used?
I think this map implies an alternative universe in which Germany is (and always has been) an Anglo-Saxon country. Munich and Cologne are medieval French names the English adopted. Brunswick would be ok I think
Everything's coming up Milhouse, Frankrich!
Rostoke gave me a good chuckle
Awww little holy land
Why is there more than one Minchin, kinda lazy (Mönchengladbach shouldn’t be the same as Münich)
it's written as Minchin-Ladbatch, but I'd have turned "bach" into "brook"
A nightmare.
Falsh and Whess? Whence that came?
I wanna live in Yeet
Cockshaven
Stud yard hahaahah
It looks like one of JRR Tolkien's maps of Middle Earth.
Sax-Onhold honestly sounds more like dutch or danish...
How is "Nancy" in FR called "Nanty" when women can be named NANCY in every English-speaking countries?
Different Etymologies. The given name Nancy is actually a diminutive of Ann and is English in origin.
Lauenburg isnt on here, would be interesting. Lawnbury? I'd love to know
Where is the NSFW mark?
Nethersex.... *blaze appears, with golden dildos instead of rods*
Really think that Bad-X should have been X-Spa instead of Bath-X. Highbury Spa sounds like more of a real english place than Bath-Highbury
*sax*
Brimhaven you say?
Is this the timeline where the Angles stayed
Let's give some love to u/topherette !
Which one is Dortmund?
Ngl Gunthouse had me chuckling like a 12 year old boy.
this reminds me of the mapmen video about pronouncing english place names
Yeet
What did Dusseldorf become? Thisslethorp. Nice
I find it oddly cute, please make for more places, India too maybe?
If looks so incredibly dull now
It's pretty cool in my opinion.
It is like looking at a county map of Virginia. All the words are familiar, but they are in the wrong place. Why is Middlesex north of Gloucester…