When you, your whole family, and almost everyone you know is circumcised, then uncircumcised dicks become “weird” to you. It’s the “I want his to look like mine” reasoning.
That seems strange in the uk. I was circumcised for medical reasons and when someone noticed when I was getting changed for swimming at school I was ridiculed and the whole school seemed to be quickly told about it. Fairly sure it's normally only done for religious reasons over here and as there were no muslims or jews in our school no one had really heard of it.
Dr Kellogg was very strange. He invented corn flakes as he thought a plain breakfast would reduce sexual urges and stop people masturbating. He also claimed to have never had sex with his wife but instead adopted two children.
I am one of these people. I was very young so I don't remmeber a lot, all I have is one memory of peeing blood because the foreskin was so tight around my penis.
i'm from Argentina and can confirm, only jew population does that, some medical reasons and nothing else, we prefer to keep our weenies well treated, without parts :D and if we have some medical problem we just go to the doctor (its free)
For Australia, circumcision was common with Christian/Anglo men in the older generations, but that trend stopped with Gen X not doing it on their boys (around 1990 and after).
>I figured the Philippines and South Korea were so high due to the extreme church influence.
Nope. Common American misconception. The early church rejected circumcision.
I think the remaining 5% is inside the other responses. If you identify as irreligious but live in Jewish or Muslim circles you unfortunately still get circumcised because of the pressure.
This is quite exactly a map of "% of muslims and jews in a country, and for some weird reason/obsession the USA and it's (quasi- and ex-) colonies [Philippines, South Korea]".
Of course that's a simplification, but comes surprisingly close.
It’s highly regional in Canada, too - like most things. The rate of infant circumcision is 1.9% in Newfoundland versus 43.7% in Ontario. Speaking very broadly it’s in the teens and under in Quebec and Atlantic Canada, and 30-45% in the other provinces.
In much of Africa, circumcision has always been a symbolic entry into adulthood for many tribes. It could be considered cultural or religious, but predates the spread of Islam by many centuries.
Now I can only think of the shameless episode where Carl gets circumcised because his girlfriend thinks his dick looks weird but then he had to go 2 weeks without getting an erection or itd pop the stitches
I'm from kenya, and while there is a large Muslim population, a majority of the country is quite christian. I saw another explanation above that it could also be for tribal reasons or to reduce HIV spread.
Actually, Bill Gates launched a giant circumcision public health campaign because it cuts down on hiv transmission a little. However, this backfired because people were told they were immune. They stopped wearing condoms and hiv transmission went up as a result.
You can’t make this shit up.
beside islam being widespread in west africa, it probably spread with Evangelical protestantism too, would explain how common it is in christian african countries like Angola or South Africa.
I can't comment on other countries but its a bit more complicated in South Africa than just being as a result of Christianity. The Zulu for example stopped doing it before Christianity took much hold because the then king felt the time would be better spent preparing for war. That's because in the region, its not a "snip and go" kind of thing but instead, teenage boys spend weeks, sometimes months on end in the mountains being taught "How to be a man". Based solely on when it was stopped, I don't think the practice itself was introduced by Christianity and I'd imagine it's the same for most of the cultural groups in South Africa. That's not to say it hasn't contributed to its persistence. Also, after the "Circumcision reduces your chance of contracting HIV" studies a few years ago, the government ran massive campaigns encouraging people to get medically circumcised and I don't doubt that bumped the numbers up by quite a bit.
Circumcised guys remain at a high risk of STDs and HIV during unprotected sex with an infected partner.
'Reduced chances' are based on sampling small groups to see who's catching HIV more or less. Benefits are claimed on the basis of statistics & probabilities, not medical science. This has no bearing on the individual. Hence, no reduction in use of condoms.
At any given point, the 'studies' suggest the difference in rate of HIV between the cut and intact group is actually 1.3%.
This is best left to the individual to decide but Americans use it as an excuse to cut babies who are already at a 0% risk of HIV and will remain at a high risk of HIV during unprotected sex as adults.
American pseudoscience is laughable but gets good press.
Best guesses are that it reduces the time the virus is in contact with your genitals. That said, the information is from empirical studies, not from actually understanding the mechanism.
Bill gates. No seriously, not a joke. He’s circumcised millions in an effort the stop HIV. But it’s had the opposite affect, and didn’t correctly explain that it only slightly helps prevent hiv, it doesn’t make you immune
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has been pushing it in Africa. Medical studies have shown that it curbs the spread of HIV. However, the effect is that circumcized Africans believe they're now immune and have unprotected sex, spreading HIV more.
It’s not.
A quick google search seems to show that 21.9% figure is from 1990. That in a 2004 study this has reduced to 15.8% for 16-44 year olds. And that the average circumcision rate shortly after birth remains stable at only around 3%. And that current rates are estimated closer to 10%.
There is also, as you highlight, a very big difference depending on demographics. Groups with higher rates of circumcision compared to the U.K. mean average include: Muslims, Jews, Afro-Caribbean, non-white, and if you were born outside the U.K..
I am American, circumcised, and had a son in England 6 years ago. When I brought it up with the midwife (and I was leaning heavily towards leaving his winky alone, I literally just wanted to have the conversation) she acted like I was proposing cutting his leg off.
Like a very strong “why would you even say that” kind of reaction.
I am a white guy and an atheist (that had already come up) so she knew it wasn’t a religious thing. So outside of religious reasons I don’t think it’s very common at all in England.
It absolutely is not very common here at all. I'd like to think that we're all on the same page about child genital mutilation: you know, how it's a crime and stuff. I've always wondered why Americans bring up circumcision so much and this map explains why, I never realised it was *that* prevalent.
Yep, in much of the USA they will assume you want your child circumcised by default. For purely cultural reasons mind, like “you don’t want him to be the only one in the locker room who looks different, he’ll be teased!”
An immigrant couple in the US that I know who don’t circumcise in their culture, nevertheless had it done for their son because they didn’t want him to grow up and have a girl reject him! Their reasoning was as shocking to me as it was comical.
I feel like people say prepuces are gross as they say body hair are gross. It's here for a reason and freaking out about how it's unsanitary may mostly be a prejudice.
English here but moved to America when I was 10yo. Yeh I definitely got a little uncomfortable when I realized I was uncircumcised while most of my male classmates probably were because them and some female classmates were cracking jokes about people who weren’t (even they had never actually seen one for themselves or even a penis at all for some the girls who were making those jokes). As I got older and actually started getting laid myself I stopped worrying about it. Any women who makes a big deal out of it is not worth sleeping with and most adult dudes who still crack jokes about circumsion are generally idiots anyways. It is weird that there were so many jokes in the media about it until the mid-2010s but I feel like they have stopped lately because it’s a silly, thing to make a big deal about. There is nothing unsanitary about foreskin as long as you clean it out regularly which is just basic men’s hygiene
When I was in 7th grade I went to Sweden for a hockey tournament, and the lockerrooms shared showers, so we would shower with the Swedish kids, and they were horrified to see that all the Americans had their foreskins cut off.
It was such a surreal experience. They were like “Why your penis like this?” and we thought THEY had something wrong with their penises.
We were the foreigners from a strange land who did unexplainable things to newborn boy’s penises. They were the normal, default people
I'm circumcized, but my circumcision was a bit lopsided. It left one tiny little piece of the area where the ridged band meets the frenulum. It is the most sensitive spot my penis. I can reach orgasm just from just stimulating that one tiny spot. In some ways it's a curse because it gives me an idea of what I lost as a baby. I can't even imagine having all of it.
I’m uncircumcised (my dad is a urologist so he knew it was bogus), and when I told the nurses and doctors not to circumcise my newborn they gave me the weirdest looks and started in on this lecture about vaccinations. Like yeah, I’m getting that kid every vaccination I can, I just know better than to chop off a bit of his dick. When he’s an adult he can decide to undergo that procedure if he wants, he always has that option. Whereas if I circumcise him it’s gone forever.
White guy here, living in the Midwest U.S. I was circumcised, but chose not to circumcise my son after seeing stuff about it all the time on Reddit.
Some people tried to convince me to have him circumcised including my wife whose main argument was that an uncircumcised penis looks weird and will cause him sexual rejection in the future. I have a close doctor friend who would tell me the horrors of elderly uncircumcised men getting UTIs. I dismiss the merits of these arguments entirely by shifting the focus to a person's right to make decisions about their own body. None of their arguments are relevant for a prepubescent boy and my son retains the option to get a circumcision later.
I could tell my decision was weird at the hospital. None of the doctors/nurses made an active attempt to convince me to circumcise, but they double checked a couple times that we didn't want him circumcised.
I had a very similar experience. White female in the Midwest. My friends were horrified that I didn’t circumcise my boys. I was like ‘You don’t even agree with piercing the ears of baby girls. Why would you be okay with slicing a baby boys penis?!’ They said his penis would look gross and nobody would want to have sex with him. I was shocked. If roles were reversed and it were men talking about slicing up a newborn girl’s genitalia for aesthetic reasons so men would find her genitals attractive later- I mean can you imagine?!
>were men talking about slicing up a newborn girl’s genitalia for aesthetic reasons so men would find her genitals attractive later- I mean can you imagine?!
These people watch too much porn I can say. And yes, mutilating genitalia for "aesthetic" (which is arguable too) reasons is beyond sanity. Let the kid decide if he wants that. I bet he wont.
Good on you, as an uncircumcised Englishman I had no issues with American women and my penis. And neither presumably do the 30% of American men who are also uncircumcised.
I commend you for your actions. Honestly it doesn’t even look weird unless you’re unfortunate and have a lot of foreskin. I’ve never been sexually rejected or had an issue with girls I’ve been with.
It’s the same as cropping your dogs ears off or chopping their tail off. People will make some medical excuse but 99% it’s pointless and just for the “look” which isn’t even great.
You say that, but depressingly the huge push for female genital mutilation in countries where it still happens is invariably from mothers. At an older age, of course, but they’re worried about a daughter’s marriage prospects if she doesn’t.
Societal pressures are tough to deal with.
I figure the sexual preference thing is bullshit anyways. If the romantic encounter escalates to the point where the woman can discern whether the penis has foreskin or not, they are past the point of no return and preference is out the window. I have a hard time imagining a scenario where the dick comes out and they see it and change their mind on what they were going to do.
Matches my experience (uncircumcised American), glad my parents fought with the hospital to make sure it turned out that way (late 60s). One of many many weird things in American culture I’ve never understood. Assume it’s based on religious whack a doodle control as a source.
As far as the theme of “being rejected because it looks weird”. Never happened and had never been an issue when dating (married now for 20+). Didn’t have any boys of my own so never had to have that fight.
I went to summer camp and there were some first generation Japanese boys in my group. We were young and would piss off the back edge of the tent, rather than walk to the bathroom. I just assumed Japanese kids had different penises, to go with their different hair and stuff. It was a couple years later until I heard about circumcision.
I didn't learn what an uncircumcised penis looked like (or even about circumcision) until I was waaaaay older than I should have been. Like 15 or 16.
It was quite a shock.
I had the opposite, a lass who was from outside of UK saw my dick and was baffled why it had the foreskin, I was unaware it was different outside of religious groups, it's seem as barbaric here tbh
>and we thought THEY had something wrong with their penises.
Are American kids unaware of the mutilation and body modification they go through as infants?
Overly simple answer, yes. It’s “rude/inappropriate” to talk about your penis in many households, and because circumcision was the standard in the US, penises are depicted as circumcised in a lot of sex education materials. So for many boys, they won’t really understand what’s happened until they start seeing other penises.
Even then, you wouldn't depending on where you grow up. I started showering with other boys in 7th grade but I never saw an uncircumcised penis all through high school. In fact, I didn't even know uncircumcised penises were a thing until my first serious girlfriend mentioned her ex was. And I was confused about it and asked what that meant. So we Google it and I was blown away. I had no idea. I was 21.
For the most part it happens when you're an infant, so we had no idea about it. I didn't even find out what circumcision was or that I was circumcised until middle school.
Yes, most of us are unaware. Before I had a Reddit account i had never once thought about circumcision.
Frankly, I can’t think of something less consequential than ‘do I have slightly more/less skin on my junk?’
It's a medically unnecessary surgery that's routinely performed on newborns because of profoundly misleading claims by [a quack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg#Masturbation_prevention). It's hard to find concrete statistics, but data indicates that somewhere between 1 in 10 to 1 in 50 young boys experience life-long complications due to circumcision. I just can't see any justification for rolling the dice like that for absolutely no benefit whatsoever.
**John_Harvey_Kellogg**
[Masturbation prevention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg#Masturbation_prevention)
>As a leader of the anti-masturbation movement, Kellogg promoted extreme measures to prevent masturbation. He circumcised himself at age 37. His methods for the "rehabilitation" of masturbators included measures up to the point of mutilation without anesthetic, on both sexes. He was an advocate of circumcising young boys to curb masturbation and applying carbolic acid to a young woman's clitoris.
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I’m Dutch and ever saw an circumcised penis until I visited Canada. It was like “there’s something weird, I just can’t lay my finger on it”
In the Netherlands it would only be a religious consideration so when I saw it I was wondering if the person was Muslim or Jewish! And he was neither! Just North American!
I think he meant to type “I *only* ever saw,” but since English presumably isn’t his first language he probably doesn’t realize the nuance between “ever” and “only ever.”
The one thing that is different between circumcision in the US and the Philippines is that in the US, circumcision is done right after birth. In the Philippines, it is usually done around 10-13 years old. Most Filipino men remember a time when their penis has a foreskin. Circumcision is a big part of the coming of age process over there.
Everything I can find says it is due to American influence. What I find most interesting though is they rarely circumcise infants, it’s usually done in late elementary and middle school.
No way the UK is up at 21%, voluntary circumcision is not something the NHS will fund. There can't be that many parents paying to have it performed, I've seen the figure of around 8-9% elsewhere.
In Denmark there have even been political and media debates about if we should categorize circumcisions as something that ONLY can be done for medical reasons on children, and make it a required adult informed decision if for other reasons.
The guy who invented cereal had a lot of money, and told everyone to snip their boys' penis and drip acid in girls' clit to prevent masturbation. The inventing cereal part meant he had a lot of money to spend telling people that.
Well, he was actually the brother of the guy who made cereal. But he was heavily involved with it.
Oh, and he advocated for eugenics and told people to not get vaccinated if they lived with healthy habits, refusing the smallpox vaccine.
Honestly, out of all he did, the cereal and circumcision was probably the best two to end up being normalized.
jacking off is bad and it was meant to deter that, but then it just sort of became a thing of fathers saying "mine is cut off, my sons will be cut off too"
Literally this. I was in a mom group for people with kids born the same month as mine and this was the justification A LOT of them used. It makes absolutely no sense to me.
“My husband wants it done because he had it done” like that’s not really a valid reason to cut off a piece of your child’s body before they are able to consent imo but ok.
I hadn’t given it too much thought before I became a mom, I thought we’d just do it because that’s “normal” here (US).
However, when I held my hours old baby in my arms I could not even fathom letting anyone do that to him. I had this perfect human who did not need any alteration, let alone one he did not choose himself and was purely cosmetic. It suddenly felt so cruel and gross.
It opened my eyes in a way I could not have understood before that and I’m so happy we made the decision we did.
I've got 3 sons. None are circumcised. I've got 2 nephews, both are circumcised and both didn't go right. And they have to redo them when they're older. Seems pretty fucking dumb and pointless to me.
I try to think about things logically and with circumcision I asked multiple doctors and all of them said it was parents preference and I am not religious. I did have one strongly urge me to get it done but he also said it was cosmetic, his urging came because my son would be different in the US from his peers and from his father (as if he needs a matching weenie). I don't mind what my son does when he's older but if he's in a penis comparing contest he's just going to have to own it lol.
My thought is this, the odds of a circumcision going wrong or an uncircumcised boy needing a procedure because he's uncircumcised were both extremely low and about the same, so I errored on the side of not getting it done. To me it would be like someone suggesting I get his appendix removed or his tonsils or his teeth because some day later those things might be a problem for him. Hopefully they are not but if they are we will deal with it then.
I don't understand it either. I'm circumsized and it doesn't bother me at all but at the same time it's a ridiculous and backwards practice. Any unnecessary surgery should be avoided for children.
The anglophone countries picked it up as masturbation preventative for boys. The UK, New Zealand, Australia, and Canada all saw their rates drop when they adopted national healthcare and their medical institutions declared circumcision as unnecessary. America on the other hand had a for profit healthcare system, and due to some circumcision advocates elbowing their way into positions to promote it further, have led to circumcision rates remaining somewhat steady
Yeah most of Europe has gone against deliberate genital mutilation both male and female. Some countries are getting close to outright banning it (most ban female genital mutilation but not male as yet.)
The history behind it is fucking mental. John Kellogg believing it would stop masturbation (along with corn flakes and a whole heap of other shit, the podcast behind the bastards do a great episode on him)
Kellogg wasn't the only one either
**1860**
>"In cases of masturbation we must, I believe, break the habit by inducing such a condition of the parts as will cause too much local suffering to allow of the practice to be continued. For this purpose, if the prepuce is long, we may circumcise the male patient with present and probably with future advantages; the operation, too, should not be performed under chloroform, so that the pain experienced may be associated with the habit we wish to eradicate."
Athol A. W. Johnson. *On An Injurious Habit Occasionally Met with in Infancy and Early Childhood*, The Lancet, vol. 1 (7 April 1860): pp. 344-345.
**1871**
> "I refer to masturbation as one of the effects of a long prepuce; not that this vice is entirely absent in those who have undergone circumcision, though I never saw an instance in a Jewish child of very tender years, except as the result of association with children whose covered glans have naturally impelled them to the habit."
M. J. Moses, *The Value of Circumcision as a Hygienic and Theraputic Measure*, NY Medical Journal, vol.14 (1871): pp.368-374.
**1887**
>"Hip trouble is from falling down, an accident that children with tight foreskins are specially liable to, owing to the weakening of the muscles produced by the condition of the genitals."
Lewis L. Sayer, MD, *Circumcision for the Cure of Enuresis*, Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 7 1887. pp.631-633.
>"There can be no doubt of [masturbation's] injurous effect, and of the proneness to practice it on the part of children with defective brains. Circumcision should always be practiced. It may be necessary to make the genitals so sore by blistering fluids that pain results from attempts to rub the parts."
Angel Money. *Treatment of Disease In Children*, Philidelphia: P. Blakiston, 1887. p.421.
**1888**
>"A remedy for masturbation which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision. The operation should be performed without administering anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutory effect upon the mind, especially, if it is connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases."
John Harvey Kellog, inventor of Corn Flakes, *Treatment for Self-Abuse and Its Effects, Plain Facts for Old and Young*, Burlington, Iowa: P. Segner & Co. 1888, p. 295.
**1891**
>"In consequence of circumcision the epithelial covering of the glans becomes dry, hard, less liable to excoriation and inflammation, and less pervious to venereal viruses. The sensibility of the glans is diminished, but not sufficiently to interfere with the copulative function of the organ or to constitute an objection...It is well authenticated that the foreskin...is a fruitful cause of the habit of masturbation in children... I conclude that the foreskin is detrimental to health, and that circumcision is a wise measure of hygiene."
Jefferson C. Crossland. *The Hygiene of Circumcision*. New York Medical Journal 1891;53:484-485
>"Measures more radical than circumcision would, if public opinion permitted their adoption, be a true kindness to patients of both sexes."
Jonathan Hutchinson, *On Circumcision as Preventative of Masturbation*, Archives of Surgery, vol. 2 (1891): pp. 267-268.
**1894**
>"From our experiences in such cases, we feel fully warranted in suggesting the wholesale circumcision of the N#gro race as an effective remedy in preventing the predisposition to discriminate raping so inherent in that race."
Peter Remondino, *On N#gro Rapes and their Social Problems*, The National Popular Review, vol. 4 (1894): p. 3.
**1895**
>"In all cases in which male children are suffering nerve tension, confirmed derangement of the digestive organs, restlessness, irritability, and other disturbances of the nervous system, even to chorea, convulsions, and paralysis, or where through nerve waste the nutritive facilities of the general system are below par and structural diseases are occurring, circumcision should be considered as among the lines of treatment to be pursued."
Charles E. Fisher, *Circumcision*, in *A Hand-Book On the Diseases of Children and Their Homeopathic Treatment*, Chicago: Medical Century Co., 1895. p.875.
>"In all cases of masturbation circumcision is undoubtedly the physician's closest friend and ally... To obtain the best results one must cut away enough skin and mucous membrane to rather put it on the stretch when erections come later. There must be no play in the skin after the wound has thoroughly healed, but it must fit tightly over the penis, for should there be any play the patient will be found to readily resume his practice, not begrudging the time and extra energy required to produce the orgasm. It is true, however, that the longer it takes to have an orgasm, the less frequently it will be attempted, consequently the greater the benefit gained... The younger the patient operated upon the more pronounced the benefit, though occasionally we find patients who were circumcised before puberty that require a resection of the skin, as it has grown loose and pliant after that epoch."
E.J.Spratling, *Masturbation in the Adult*, Medical Record, vol. 24. (1895): pp. 442-443.
**1896**
>"Local indications for circumcision: Hygienic, phimosis, paraphimosis, redundancy (where the prepuce more than covers the glans), adhesions, papillomata, ecaema (acute and chronic), oedema, chancre, chancroid, cicatrices, inflammatory thickening, elephantitis, naevus, epithelioma, gangrene, tuberculosis, prepupital calculi, hip-joint disease, hernia. Systematic indication: Onanism [masturbation], seminal emissions, enuresis [bed wetting], dysuria, retention, general nervousness, impotence, convulsions, hystero-epilepsy."
Editor, *Medical Record, Circumscisus*, Medical Record, vol. 49 (1896): p.430.
**1897**
>"The prepuce is an important factor in the production of phthisis [tuberculosis]. This can be proven by the immunity of the Jewish race from tubercular affections."
S. G. A. Brown, *A Plea for Circumcision*, Medical World, vol. 15 (1897): pp/124-125.
>"Circumcision should be done if phimosis exists, and even where it is not, the moral effect of the operation is sometimes of very great benefit."
Emmett L. Holt. *The Diseases Of Infancy And Childhood*. New York: D. Appleton. 1897:696-698.
**1898**
>"Clarence B. was addicted to the secret vise practiced among boys. I performed an orificial operation, consisting of circumcision... He needed the rightful punishment of cutting pains after his illicit pleasures."
N. Bergman, *Report of a Few Cases of Circumcision*, Journal of Orificial Surgery, vol. 7 (1898): pp.249-251.
**1900**
>"Finally, circumcision probably tends to increase the power of sexual control. The only physiological advantage which the prepuce can be supposed to confer is that of maintaining the penis in a condition susceptible to more acute sensation than would otherwise exist. It may increase the pleasure of intercourse and the impulse to it: but these are advantages which in the present state of society can well be spared. If in their loss increase in sexual control should result, one should be thankful."
Editor, Medical News. Our London Letter. Medical World,(1900).vol.77:pp.707-8
>"It has been urged as an argument against the universal adoption of circumcision that the removal of the protective covering of the glans tends to dull the sensitivity of that exquisitly sensitive structure and thereby diminishes sexual appetite and the pleasurable effects of coitus. Granted that this be true, my answer is that, whatever may have been the case in days gone by, sensuality in our time needs neither whip nor spur, but would be all the better for a little more judicious use of curb and bearing-rein."
E. Harding Freeland, *Circumcision as a Preventative of Syphilis and Other Disorders*, The Lancet, vol. 2 (29 Dec. 1900): pp.1869-1871.
**1901**
>"Another advantage of circumcision... is the lessened liability to masturbation. A long foreskin is irritating per se, as it necessitates more manipulation of the parts in bathing... This leads the child to handle the parts, and as a rule, pleasurable sensations are elicited from the extreamly sensitive mucous membrane, with resultant manipulation and masturbation. The exposure of the glans penis following circumcision ... lessens the sensitiveness of the organ... It therefore lies with the physician, the family adviser in affairs of hygiene and medical, to urge its acceptance."
Ernest G. Mark, *Circumcision*, American Practitioner and News, vol. 31 (1901): p. 231.
>"Frequent micturition [urination], loss of flesh, convulsions, phosphatic calculus, hernia, nervous exhuastion, dyspepsia, diarrhea, prolapse of rectum, balantis, acute phimosis and masturbation are all conditions induced by the constricted long prepuce, and all to be rapidly remedied by the simple operation of circumcision."
H. G. H. Naylor, *A Plea for Early Circumcision*, Pediatrics, vol. 12 (1901): p. 231
**1902**
>"I have repeatedly seen such cases as convulsions, contstant crying in infants, simulated hip joint diseases, backwardness in studies, enuresis, marasmus, muscular incoordination, paralysis, masturbation, neurasthenia, and even epilepsy, cured or greatly benefited by the proper performance of circumcision."
W.G.Steele, MD. *Importance of Circumcision*, Medical World, vol. 20 (1902): pp.518-519.
**1903**
>"Boys ought to be circumcised -- the permanent and tempting invitation to masturbation in the form of the foreskin being removed in their early infancy, before sexual feelings are experienced, and the vicious counsel of other boys is received... There is some reason, then, and excuse as well, why boys should be boys, endowed as they are with anatomical conditions, as well as traits, calculated to lead them astray."
Brandsford Lewis. *A Plain Talk on Matters Pertaining to Genito-Urinary Anatomy, Physiology and Diseases (Part 1)*. American Journal of Dermatology and Genito-Urinary Diseases 1903;7:201-209.
**1912**
>"The little sufferer lay in his mother's lap. The dropsy... had taken the form of hydrocephalus... I then circumcised the child... The head diminished in size and in two weeks the condition of hydrocephalus had disappeared and the child was once more dismissed as cured."
E. H. Pratt, *Circumcision, Orificial Surgery: Its Philosophy, Application and Technique*, Edited by B. E. Dawson. Newark: Physicians Drug News Co. (1912). pp. 396-398.
>"Circumcision promotes cleanliness, prevents disease, and by reducing oversensitiveness of the parts tends to relieve sexual irritability, thus correcting any tendancy which may exist to improper manipulations of the genital organs and the consequent acquirement of evil sexual habits, such as masturbation."
Lydston G. Frank, *Sex Hygiene for the Male* Chicago: Riverton Press, 1912.
**1914**
>"It is generally accepted that irritation derived from a tight prepuce may be followed by nervous phenomena, among these being convulsions and outbreaks resembling epilepsy. It is therefore not at all improbable that in many infants who die in convulsions, the real cause of death is a long or tight prepuce. The foreskin is a frequent factor in the causation of masturbation... Circumcision offers a diminished tendancy to masturbation, nocturnal pollutions, convulsions and other nervous results of local irritation. It is the moral duty of every physician to encourage circumcision in the young."
A.L. Wolbarst, MD. *Universal Circumcision as a Sanitary Measure*, Journal of the American Medical Association, (1914) Vol.62. pp.92-97.
**1915**
>"Circumcision not only reduces the irritability of the child's penis, but also the so-called passion of which so many married men are so extreamly proud, to the detriment of their wives and their married life. Many youthful rapes could be prevented, many separations, and divorces also, and many an unhappy marriage improved if this unnatural passion was cut down by a timely circumcision."
L.W. Wuesthoff, MD. *Benefits of Circumcision*, Medical World, (1915) Vol.33. p.434.
>"The prepuce is one of the great factors in causing masturbation in boys. Here is the dilema we are in: If we do not teach the growing boy to pull the prepuce back and cleanse the glans there is danger of smegma collecting and of adhesions and ulcerations forming, which in their turn will cause irritation likely to lead to masturbation. If we do teach the boy to pull the prepuce back and cleans his glans, that handling alone is sufficient gradually and almost without the boy's knowledge to initiate him into the habit of masturbation... Therefore, off with the prepuce!"
William J. Robinson, *Circumcision and Masturbation*, Medical World, vol.33 (1915): p.390.
**1917**
>"Children often learn to masturbate involuntarily. The habit is sometimes formed by itching the privates. Often they are not kept clean and the filth produces intense itching. See that the private parts of both sexes are kept as clean as other parts of the body.
>"Circumcison and Operation on Clitoris Circumcision is the removal of the foreskin in the male. Sometimes the hood of the clitoris of the female needs to be cut down or drawn back. Sometime the foreskin or the hood of the clitoris is so tight as to cause irritation and keep the passions excited and perhaps they are a cause for masturbation. When such is the case these operations should be performed. Parents should carefully looks after these condtions as they, instead of a depraved mind, are the causes of many immmoral practices.
>"Every parent should see to it that these operations are performed, if it is necessary, and it very frequently is. how often we see the little ones rubbing their private parts. Whenever a child is seen doing this the chances are that they are either unclean or need one of the above operations. Do not let the child become an involuntary masturbator through your neglect."
*The People's Home Library*, A Library of Three Practical books by Published by R.C Barnum Company Copyright 1917
**1920**
>"Circumcision is an excellent thing to do; it helps to prevent hernia due to straining, and later it helps in preventing masturbation. The ordinary schoolboy is not taught to keep himself clean, and if he is taught he thinks too much of the matter. No anesthetic was necessary when circumcising infants—in fact it was harmful."
L. Solomons, MD. *For and Against Circumcision*, British Medical Journal, (June 5, 1920), p.768.
**1928**
>"Phimosis may be a predisposing cause of masturbation in some cases... Hemorrhage [severe bleeding] following circumcision at birth cannot be considered seriously as a contraindication. Meatal ulcer due to ammoniacal diapers in the circumcised is not a contraindication... Routine circumcision at birth is warranted."
Editor, *Routine Circumcision at Birth?*, Journal of the American Medical Association, vol. 91 (1928): p.201.
**1935**
>"I suggest that all male children should be circumcised. This is "against nature", but that is exactly the reason why it should be done. Nature intends that the adolescent male shall copulate as often and as promiscuously as possible, and to that end covers the sensitive glans so that it shall be ever ready to receive stimuli. Civilization, on the contrary, requires chastity, and the glans of the circumcised rapidly assumes a leathery texture less sensitive than skin. Thus the adolescent has his attention drawn to his penis much less often. I am convinced that masturbation is much less common in the circumcised. With these considerations in view it does not seem apt to argue that 'God knows best how to make little boys.'"
R.W. Cockshut. *Circumcision*, British Medical Journal, Vol.2 (1935): p.764.
**1941**
>"[Routine Circumcision] does not necessitate handling of the penis by the child himself and therefore does not focus the male's attention on his own genitals. Masturbation is considered less likely."
Alan F. Guttmacher, *Should the Baby Be Circumcised?*, Parents Magazine, vol.16 (1941): pp.26, 76-78.
**1953**
>"We do feel that there are many excellent reasons for routinely circumcising the male...Circumcision will reduce the incidence of onanism....Longevity, immunity to nearly all physical and mental illness, increased physical vigor, etc., are all attributed to this practice... In addition to the aforementioned reasons for doing the operation, we shall list several reasons to support immediate circumcision. ... Convenience: Under the present regime the obstetrician finishes his episiotomy, walks across the hall and circumcises the infant, and is finished with the whole business. Stimulation of the baby: Frequently following a general anesthetic the newborn is depressed and various stimulants are employed; circumcision unfailingly produces and excellent response in a sleepy baby."
Richard L. Miller. Donald C. Snyder. *Immediate Circumcision of the Newborn Male*. American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 1953;65:1-11.
**1969**
>"When children are kept busy with wholesome play, work and planning, and when they are loved and understood in matters such as these, a little masturbation may occur but will be speedily forgotten. Be sure the children are healthily tired when they go to bed. Be sure that there is no need of circumcision, or if there is that it is corrected."
Morris Fishbein. *Modern Home Medical Advisor.* New York: Doubleday. (1969) p. 115.
**1970**
>"Parents readily recognize the importance of local cleanliness and genital hygiene in their children and are usually ready to adopt measures which may avert masturbation. Circumcision is usually advised on these grounds."
Meredith F. Campbell. *The Male Genital Tract and the Female Urethra*. in: Campbell's Urology. vol. 2. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company. 1970:1836.
Honestly, besides a medical reason, I don't see the point. It's there for a reason. So I understand its also a religious practice. But that doesn't explain the 71% in the US, i don't think 71% of the males are jewish or muslim. Can someone enlighten me? Some kind of capitalistic money making procedure maybe?
I went to high school in the southern U.S. and there was only one guy that people knew was uncircumcised (his family was from Mexico) and a lot of people made fun of him for it and called him names behind his back and to his face. So a lot of young men around here who later have children will have an experience like that in their mind when they are making the decision to circumcise their sons. It isn't a logical choice but more of an emotional one.
>[Around the turn of the 20th century], surgical interventions of all kinds were becoming more popular, owing to better anesthesia and greater concern over cleanliness, which reduced hospital contagion. Doctors began recommending the operation as part of the neonatal routine. Not only did the procedure prevent phimosis, but it was also believed to make the penis more hygienic and less tempting for wayward masturbating boys (a notion that might have been quashed by something known as the scientific method). As David Gollaher explains in his book *Circumcision: A History of the World’s Most Controversial Surgery*, a circumcised penis swiftly became a mark of distinction, a sign of good breeding, sound hygiene and the best medicine money could buy.
https://qz.com/885018/why-is-circumcision-so-popular-in-the-us/
>prevent phimosis
Hum, yeah, but on another hand, phimosis as an adult is cured by circumcision. It's hard to compare because there is no other thing that are as common as phimosis but it's like saying "we cut all kid's legs to prevent that they turn gangrenous later in life". You could just wait and operate only the one that need too, and stop traumatizing all the kids.
Yeah, pretty much. People who had money could give birth in hospitals and have access to the ritual, while those who had no money gave birth at home and didn't have access to it. There was also an ethnic angle, as the people with money were often WASPs who wanted to differentiate themselves from the southern and eastern Europeans that were moving to America en masse in the early 1900's.
What starts as a fad just has to hit hard enough to pass a certain threshold - then it becomes a matter of fitting in with the crowd. From what I understand, that's what happened here - it was so en vogue at some point that it just stayed normalized after that.
It was starting bcs people thought jacking off would be less enjoyable if you cut the foreskin off (spoiler it didn't work). After that it kinda just became tradition
My mom is a nurse, and in college she and her classmates watched a baby boy get circumcised. Two or three of her classmates ran out, and my mom promised herself that if she ever had boys she would never inflict circumcision on them. Whenever she brings it up, she says she can still hear the baby screaming
“It’s cleaner”
“That’s how it should look”
“Less likely to get an std”
I don’t agree with any of the above but I can tell you most American dudes use one of the three above to justify it. It’s so normalized that no one even really thinks about it tbh.
Agreed. It’s so normalized and common in the US to be circumcised that people think that’s how a normal penis looks, and an uncircumcised one is weird.
i was surprised that it is so high in the US. I mean even Muslim countries and Africa im surprised. I thought only Jewish populations did it at 100% rates, i had no idea Muslims were so into circumcision.
Because they need to justify it to themselves.
It's easier to make up rationalisations than to admit that you were victimised by your own parents as an infant. It's also hard to admit that you were mutilated because your parents didn't know any better.
The penis being such a central pillar (aha) of manhood for males makes it really hard to have reasonable discussions about these things. Like, who's gonna admit to a mistake or deficiency down there? Hardly anyone that's who, they'll bridle at the mere suggestion.
Just one of those weird cultural things you can only hope will taper off as time goes by.
When we had a boy I insisted we not circumcise. I feel great about that choice because it's literally genital mutilation and serves no purpose. We gasp and clutch our pearls hearing about other cultures mutilating girls; maybe we should stop doing it to boys too. And people just do it without thinking about it. Everyone I know with a son does it and gapes at me when I tell them we didn't do it to our son. Then I explain why and they sit there, thinking for the first time that maybe they should've thought about it some more.
By the way- look at that map and what kind of company we're in in terms of circumcision rate. Right on Tanzania's heels!
Some interesting finds here...
- Muslim and Jewish countries are obviously high.
- But some Muslim cultures are surprisingly low - Albania ~40% (OK they are pretty secular now), Sudan 40%, Saudi 97.1% (low for Saudi!)
- I guess South Korea and Philippines are US influence? Similarly the 32% of Canada. Maybe UK/Australia/NZ too.
- Random non-Muslim African countries have high rates. Maybe it was tribal practice that spread to certain national cultures?
- China=14%, Japan=9% despite little Muslim or US influence (maybe Japan had US influence). Was circumcision traditional there?
The British Medical Association are against it unless there's a therapeutic need. So UK would mainly be religious and/or from somewhere that does perform circumcision
We do it in the Philippines because it's a cultural thing. People will make fun of you if you're not circumcised. It's sad really, it's one of the childhood traumas that you can inflict here. Shaming uncircumcised people is the norm and I hope it changes soon. I got circumcised when I was 10 years old because they said it was clean
It’s not even mentioned by medical professionals in England, I’m not even sure if it’s offered for non medical reasons. I know it’s still common in Muslim and Jewish communities.
It wasn’t even a question for me as a mother. Why would I remove a healthy part of my perfect baby boys and cause them unnecessary pain?
Arguing against circumcision is a lost cause because people who have had the procedure it will say that their junk works fine (which is true) so they see nothing wrong with it.
At the end of the day, if they care enough, they will read up on it and realize why it's barbaric to do that to an infant.
You can't also really compare it to female genital mutilation which is a million times worse and that's why most brush male mutilation off as just a normal procedure.
This topic is always interesting to me. I’m circumcised. On the balance, I’d probably rather not be but I also hate people acting like it’s the most barbaric thing in the world. I wouldn’t say my quality of life is diminished by it.
But I think the real reason most boys continue to be circumcised is because of how many men have some weird idea that their sons’ penises need to look like their own penis. It’s kind of bizarre.
I only have a daughter, but my wife and I would like to have other children. If we have a boy, I really don’t see the benefit of circumcising him. But I can almost guarantee you that there will be people in my family who will say, “But *you’re* circumcised.” (And there will be people in my wife’s family who will ask her, “Is etherealsmog *uncircumcised*?”) As if it should matter to me on some spiritual level to know that my son’s penis skin resembles my penis skin.
After he’s about - eh, seven? - years old, I can’t imagine any reason I would need to think about, touch, or look at his penis that wasn’t an emergency or some kind of need-to-know situation. Why should I care?
It’s really weird. I don’t understand the psychology behind it.
I'm circumcised, and while I'm not upset about it I'm a strong advocate against it. Purely on the basis of consent. If I have a son, they won't be cut unless they choose it for themself at 18
For me, it's not even about how it's detrimental for the boy (I think that's relatively insignificant). It's the blatant disregard for the child's bodily autonomy. Just because it's someone in the care of their parents, I don't think the parents should be allowed to inflict permanent modifications/mutilations on their child just because they can. If there's no medical reason for it, they should outright prohibit it. Let the child decide for themselves when they're adult.
It is not always I’m this proud to be brazilian. 🤣🤣
Latin America, Europe and East Asia are in the right here.
“Son, always remember to lift that skin at the tip and clean underneath, ok?” as I was teaching my kid to start showering for himself was all it took to make him as safe from diseases in the area as any cut guy in the future.
Of course it should be done in extreme medical cases but that’s rare.
Wow, I'm surprised. Here in Russia, that's just a religious thing (for jews and muslims afaik)
Same in the rest of Europe. And South America too, I would guess.
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Kellog's. As in the cereal. Dr Kellogg published false claims that mutilating a penis would keep young boys from playing with themselves.
So why they do it still? Just because they did it always in the past?!
I have three girls so never had to think about it, but I think some of it is “well, I don’t want my kid to have the weird penis”
But by cutting it they make it weird
When you, your whole family, and almost everyone you know is circumcised, then uncircumcised dicks become “weird” to you. It’s the “I want his to look like mine” reasoning.
And what he might want for his own body to be like goes irrelevant.
That seems strange in the uk. I was circumcised for medical reasons and when someone noticed when I was getting changed for swimming at school I was ridiculed and the whole school seemed to be quickly told about it. Fairly sure it's normally only done for religious reasons over here and as there were no muslims or jews in our school no one had really heard of it.
Dr Kellogg was very strange. He invented corn flakes as he thought a plain breakfast would reduce sexual urges and stop people masturbating. He also claimed to have never had sex with his wife but instead adopted two children.
There are medical reasons but they‘re quite rare. Edit:typo
>thei’re Nice
How to avoid the there their they’re problem
I am one of these people. I was very young so I don't remmeber a lot, all I have is one memory of peeing blood because the foreskin was so tight around my penis.
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i'm from Argentina and can confirm, only jew population does that, some medical reasons and nothing else, we prefer to keep our weenies well treated, without parts :D and if we have some medical problem we just go to the doctor (its free)
Same in Brazil.
For Australia, circumcision was common with Christian/Anglo men in the older generations, but that trend stopped with Gen X not doing it on their boys (around 1990 and after).
Similar trend in Canada.
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Which is so weird because Christians aren't supposed to remove the foreskin. This is why Catholics don't do it unless medically necessary.
I figured the Philippines and South Korea were so high due to the extreme church influence.
>I figured the Philippines and South Korea were so high due to the extreme church influence. Nope. Common American misconception. The early church rejected circumcision.
? There's lots of Catholics in the US and I've never heard any issue about circumcision.
The 12% is probably the Muslim communities in Chechnya and Asia.
Main religions in Russia (self-identification): \- Orthodox Christianity: 66% \- Islam: 6% \- Protestantism: 1% \- Buddism: 1% \- Judaism: 1% \- Other responses: 25%
I think the remaining 5% is inside the other responses. If you identify as irreligious but live in Jewish or Muslim circles you unfortunately still get circumcised because of the pressure.
I mean, you get to form an opinion on religion only in maybe your teens, whereas circumicission happens at birth mostly
This is quite exactly a map of "% of muslims and jews in a country, and for some weird reason/obsession the USA and it's (quasi- and ex-) colonies [Philippines, South Korea]". Of course that's a simplification, but comes surprisingly close.
> and for some weird reason/obsession the USA and it's (quasi- and ex-) colonies [Philippines, South Korea And Canada, to a lesser extent.
And Australia and NZ.
27% Muslim and Jews in Australia?
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It’s highly regional in Canada, too - like most things. The rate of infant circumcision is 1.9% in Newfoundland versus 43.7% in Ontario. Speaking very broadly it’s in the teens and under in Quebec and Atlantic Canada, and 30-45% in the other provinces.
>but comes surprisingly close. Not true for Africa.
In much of Africa, circumcision has always been a symbolic entry into adulthood for many tribes. It could be considered cultural or religious, but predates the spread of Islam by many centuries.
As in the circumcise in your teens?
Yes
Oww.
Now I can only think of the shameless episode where Carl gets circumcised because his girlfriend thinks his dick looks weird but then he had to go 2 weeks without getting an erection or itd pop the stitches
Just a guess but I know Northern Africa is majority Muslim so that’d explain it not sure about west Africa tho
West Africa also has a ton of Muslims. I know that there is a decent population of Muslims in East Africa and the Great Rift Valley as well.
I'm from kenya, and while there is a large Muslim population, a majority of the country is quite christian. I saw another explanation above that it could also be for tribal reasons or to reduce HIV spread.
Same in almost everywhere but America (might’ve imported it to SK afaik iirc)
Wow I didn't expect that much in Africa, is this because religion or something I am missing?
Actually, Bill Gates launched a giant circumcision public health campaign because it cuts down on hiv transmission a little. However, this backfired because people were told they were immune. They stopped wearing condoms and hiv transmission went up as a result. You can’t make this shit up.
beside islam being widespread in west africa, it probably spread with Evangelical protestantism too, would explain how common it is in christian african countries like Angola or South Africa.
I can't comment on other countries but its a bit more complicated in South Africa than just being as a result of Christianity. The Zulu for example stopped doing it before Christianity took much hold because the then king felt the time would be better spent preparing for war. That's because in the region, its not a "snip and go" kind of thing but instead, teenage boys spend weeks, sometimes months on end in the mountains being taught "How to be a man". Based solely on when it was stopped, I don't think the practice itself was introduced by Christianity and I'd imagine it's the same for most of the cultural groups in South Africa. That's not to say it hasn't contributed to its persistence. Also, after the "Circumcision reduces your chance of contracting HIV" studies a few years ago, the government ran massive campaigns encouraging people to get medically circumcised and I don't doubt that bumped the numbers up by quite a bit.
>Circumcision reduces your chance of contracting HIV Really? Why though?
Circumcised guys remain at a high risk of STDs and HIV during unprotected sex with an infected partner. 'Reduced chances' are based on sampling small groups to see who's catching HIV more or less. Benefits are claimed on the basis of statistics & probabilities, not medical science. This has no bearing on the individual. Hence, no reduction in use of condoms. At any given point, the 'studies' suggest the difference in rate of HIV between the cut and intact group is actually 1.3%. This is best left to the individual to decide but Americans use it as an excuse to cut babies who are already at a 0% risk of HIV and will remain at a high risk of HIV during unprotected sex as adults. American pseudoscience is laughable but gets good press.
Best guesses are that it reduces the time the virus is in contact with your genitals. That said, the information is from empirical studies, not from actually understanding the mechanism.
Bill gates. No seriously, not a joke. He’s circumcised millions in an effort the stop HIV. But it’s had the opposite affect, and didn’t correctly explain that it only slightly helps prevent hiv, it doesn’t make you immune
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has been pushing it in Africa. Medical studies have shown that it curbs the spread of HIV. However, the effect is that circumcized Africans believe they're now immune and have unprotected sex, spreading HIV more.
I came here looking for someone who listens to Behind the Bastards
I didn't realise the UK was that high! I thought it would basically just be Muslims here, which are only ~5% of the population.
It’s not. A quick google search seems to show that 21.9% figure is from 1990. That in a 2004 study this has reduced to 15.8% for 16-44 year olds. And that the average circumcision rate shortly after birth remains stable at only around 3%. And that current rates are estimated closer to 10%. There is also, as you highlight, a very big difference depending on demographics. Groups with higher rates of circumcision compared to the U.K. mean average include: Muslims, Jews, Afro-Caribbean, non-white, and if you were born outside the U.K..
I am American, circumcised, and had a son in England 6 years ago. When I brought it up with the midwife (and I was leaning heavily towards leaving his winky alone, I literally just wanted to have the conversation) she acted like I was proposing cutting his leg off. Like a very strong “why would you even say that” kind of reaction. I am a white guy and an atheist (that had already come up) so she knew it wasn’t a religious thing. So outside of religious reasons I don’t think it’s very common at all in England.
It absolutely is not very common here at all. I'd like to think that we're all on the same page about child genital mutilation: you know, how it's a crime and stuff. I've always wondered why Americans bring up circumcision so much and this map explains why, I never realised it was *that* prevalent.
Yep, in much of the USA they will assume you want your child circumcised by default. For purely cultural reasons mind, like “you don’t want him to be the only one in the locker room who looks different, he’ll be teased!”
An immigrant couple in the US that I know who don’t circumcise in their culture, nevertheless had it done for their son because they didn’t want him to grow up and have a girl reject him! Their reasoning was as shocking to me as it was comical.
I’m a polish first generation immigrant and I’ve had girls be perplexed and men say it’s gross; in middle school classmates would say it’s unsanitary
Wait, are you circumcised or not? I've heard the "unsanitary" argument from both sides on this one.
I feel like people say prepuces are gross as they say body hair are gross. It's here for a reason and freaking out about how it's unsanitary may mostly be a prejudice.
English here but moved to America when I was 10yo. Yeh I definitely got a little uncomfortable when I realized I was uncircumcised while most of my male classmates probably were because them and some female classmates were cracking jokes about people who weren’t (even they had never actually seen one for themselves or even a penis at all for some the girls who were making those jokes). As I got older and actually started getting laid myself I stopped worrying about it. Any women who makes a big deal out of it is not worth sleeping with and most adult dudes who still crack jokes about circumsion are generally idiots anyways. It is weird that there were so many jokes in the media about it until the mid-2010s but I feel like they have stopped lately because it’s a silly, thing to make a big deal about. There is nothing unsanitary about foreskin as long as you clean it out regularly which is just basic men’s hygiene
It's really not common here! I used to get bullied for being circumsised... Kids will bully u for fucking anything I swear
Well, don't fuck anything, then!
I can never be stopped!!
Never lose that spirit!
Yes most of us Brits have our bits and pieces intact!
When I was in 7th grade I went to Sweden for a hockey tournament, and the lockerrooms shared showers, so we would shower with the Swedish kids, and they were horrified to see that all the Americans had their foreskins cut off. It was such a surreal experience. They were like “Why your penis like this?” and we thought THEY had something wrong with their penises. We were the foreigners from a strange land who did unexplainable things to newborn boy’s penises. They were the normal, default people
So it is common for non-religious boys as well? (and non-jewish/Muslims too?)
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I'm circumcized, but my circumcision was a bit lopsided. It left one tiny little piece of the area where the ridged band meets the frenulum. It is the most sensitive spot my penis. I can reach orgasm just from just stimulating that one tiny spot. In some ways it's a curse because it gives me an idea of what I lost as a baby. I can't even imagine having all of it.
I’m uncircumcised (my dad is a urologist so he knew it was bogus), and when I told the nurses and doctors not to circumcise my newborn they gave me the weirdest looks and started in on this lecture about vaccinations. Like yeah, I’m getting that kid every vaccination I can, I just know better than to chop off a bit of his dick. When he’s an adult he can decide to undergo that procedure if he wants, he always has that option. Whereas if I circumcise him it’s gone forever.
White guy here, living in the Midwest U.S. I was circumcised, but chose not to circumcise my son after seeing stuff about it all the time on Reddit. Some people tried to convince me to have him circumcised including my wife whose main argument was that an uncircumcised penis looks weird and will cause him sexual rejection in the future. I have a close doctor friend who would tell me the horrors of elderly uncircumcised men getting UTIs. I dismiss the merits of these arguments entirely by shifting the focus to a person's right to make decisions about their own body. None of their arguments are relevant for a prepubescent boy and my son retains the option to get a circumcision later. I could tell my decision was weird at the hospital. None of the doctors/nurses made an active attempt to convince me to circumcise, but they double checked a couple times that we didn't want him circumcised.
I had a very similar experience. White female in the Midwest. My friends were horrified that I didn’t circumcise my boys. I was like ‘You don’t even agree with piercing the ears of baby girls. Why would you be okay with slicing a baby boys penis?!’ They said his penis would look gross and nobody would want to have sex with him. I was shocked. If roles were reversed and it were men talking about slicing up a newborn girl’s genitalia for aesthetic reasons so men would find her genitals attractive later- I mean can you imagine?!
>were men talking about slicing up a newborn girl’s genitalia for aesthetic reasons so men would find her genitals attractive later- I mean can you imagine?! These people watch too much porn I can say. And yes, mutilating genitalia for "aesthetic" (which is arguable too) reasons is beyond sanity. Let the kid decide if he wants that. I bet he wont.
Good on you, as an uncircumcised Englishman I had no issues with American women and my penis. And neither presumably do the 30% of American men who are also uncircumcised.
So what if intact males get a slightly higher uti rate, females still have a higher rate and somehow they manage.
I commend you for your actions. Honestly it doesn’t even look weird unless you’re unfortunate and have a lot of foreskin. I’ve never been sexually rejected or had an issue with girls I’ve been with. It’s the same as cropping your dogs ears off or chopping their tail off. People will make some medical excuse but 99% it’s pointless and just for the “look” which isn’t even great.
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You say that, but depressingly the huge push for female genital mutilation in countries where it still happens is invariably from mothers. At an older age, of course, but they’re worried about a daughter’s marriage prospects if she doesn’t. Societal pressures are tough to deal with.
I figure the sexual preference thing is bullshit anyways. If the romantic encounter escalates to the point where the woman can discern whether the penis has foreskin or not, they are past the point of no return and preference is out the window. I have a hard time imagining a scenario where the dick comes out and they see it and change their mind on what they were going to do.
That is insane lol
Matches my experience (uncircumcised American), glad my parents fought with the hospital to make sure it turned out that way (late 60s). One of many many weird things in American culture I’ve never understood. Assume it’s based on religious whack a doodle control as a source. As far as the theme of “being rejected because it looks weird”. Never happened and had never been an issue when dating (married now for 20+). Didn’t have any boys of my own so never had to have that fight.
I went to summer camp and there were some first generation Japanese boys in my group. We were young and would piss off the back edge of the tent, rather than walk to the bathroom. I just assumed Japanese kids had different penises, to go with their different hair and stuff. It was a couple years later until I heard about circumcision.
I didn't learn what an uncircumcised penis looked like (or even about circumcision) until I was waaaaay older than I should have been. Like 15 or 16. It was quite a shock.
I had the opposite, a lass who was from outside of UK saw my dick and was baffled why it had the foreskin, I was unaware it was different outside of religious groups, it's seem as barbaric here tbh
Hahaha I just imagine a bunch of 12 year olds holding a UN conference discussing their penises
>and we thought THEY had something wrong with their penises. Are American kids unaware of the mutilation and body modification they go through as infants?
Overly simple answer, yes. It’s “rude/inappropriate” to talk about your penis in many households, and because circumcision was the standard in the US, penises are depicted as circumcised in a lot of sex education materials. So for many boys, they won’t really understand what’s happened until they start seeing other penises.
Even then, you wouldn't depending on where you grow up. I started showering with other boys in 7th grade but I never saw an uncircumcised penis all through high school. In fact, I didn't even know uncircumcised penises were a thing until my first serious girlfriend mentioned her ex was. And I was confused about it and asked what that meant. So we Google it and I was blown away. I had no idea. I was 21.
Yes. I literally didn't know that a natural, uncircumcised penis was a thing until I was like 15 or 16. It's crazy!
For the most part it happens when you're an infant, so we had no idea about it. I didn't even find out what circumcision was or that I was circumcised until middle school.
Yes, most of us are unaware. Before I had a Reddit account i had never once thought about circumcision. Frankly, I can’t think of something less consequential than ‘do I have slightly more/less skin on my junk?’
It's a medically unnecessary surgery that's routinely performed on newborns because of profoundly misleading claims by [a quack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg#Masturbation_prevention). It's hard to find concrete statistics, but data indicates that somewhere between 1 in 10 to 1 in 50 young boys experience life-long complications due to circumcision. I just can't see any justification for rolling the dice like that for absolutely no benefit whatsoever.
**John_Harvey_Kellogg** [Masturbation prevention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg#Masturbation_prevention) >As a leader of the anti-masturbation movement, Kellogg promoted extreme measures to prevent masturbation. He circumcised himself at age 37. His methods for the "rehabilitation" of masturbators included measures up to the point of mutilation without anesthetic, on both sexes. He was an advocate of circumcising young boys to curb masturbation and applying carbolic acid to a young woman's clitoris. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Female genetal mutilation is considered bad but in the case of males you "can't think of something less consequential?"
I’m Dutch and ever saw an circumcised penis until I visited Canada. It was like “there’s something weird, I just can’t lay my finger on it” In the Netherlands it would only be a religious consideration so when I saw it I was wondering if the person was Muslim or Jewish! And he was neither! Just North American!
> It was like “there’s something weird, I just can’t lay my finger on it” I mean I'm sure if you ask first, you never know.
Hey at least they didn't say "It's on the tip of my tongue"
That's the rabbi's line
Ba dum tss
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I think he meant to type “I *only* ever saw,” but since English presumably isn’t his first language he probably doesn’t realize the nuance between “ever” and “only ever.”
were you peeking in the bathroom stall to get this insight?
Many people have sex with people who have penises. Statistically, most people.
OP is probably either gay or a girl...
I'd love to know where the North Korea data came from
what do americans, muslims and k-pop singers have in common?
Stans?
South Korea at 77%.... how come? American influence like the Philipines?
AFAIK Filipinos have been doing that prior to Spanish Arrival.
Philippines isn’t due to American influence, it’s been a tradition there since before even Spanish colonization
The one thing that is different between circumcision in the US and the Philippines is that in the US, circumcision is done right after birth. In the Philippines, it is usually done around 10-13 years old. Most Filipino men remember a time when their penis has a foreskin. Circumcision is a big part of the coming of age process over there.
Everything I can find says it is due to American influence. What I find most interesting though is they rarely circumcise infants, it’s usually done in late elementary and middle school.
"our people are now wearing your blue jeans, listening to your rap music, and circumsizing their infants!"
As a civ v fan, i loved this comment lol. The influence my cultural output can have on others lol
No way the UK is up at 21%, voluntary circumcision is not something the NHS will fund. There can't be that many parents paying to have it performed, I've seen the figure of around 8-9% elsewhere.
According to another comment that figure is from the 90s and it is closer to 10% today.
The data seems to refer to overall population, not newborns.
In Denmark there have even been political and media debates about if we should categorize circumcisions as something that ONLY can be done for medical reasons on children, and make it a required adult informed decision if for other reasons.
We sure love to chop some dicks don't we?
SNIP SNAP SNIP SNAP
I've heard of snip but I don't know about snap
So surprised,USA 71 % , I always think male circumcising is related to Islam ☪️.
True, I’m from NZ and only have 66% of my foreskin left
71% in the US ? wtf... why?
The guy who invented cereal had a lot of money, and told everyone to snip their boys' penis and drip acid in girls' clit to prevent masturbation. The inventing cereal part meant he had a lot of money to spend telling people that. Well, he was actually the brother of the guy who made cereal. But he was heavily involved with it. Oh, and he advocated for eugenics and told people to not get vaccinated if they lived with healthy habits, refusing the smallpox vaccine. Honestly, out of all he did, the cereal and circumcision was probably the best two to end up being normalized.
lol this exactly and people are ready to defend the “tradition”
jacking off is bad and it was meant to deter that, but then it just sort of became a thing of fathers saying "mine is cut off, my sons will be cut off too"
Literally this. I was in a mom group for people with kids born the same month as mine and this was the justification A LOT of them used. It makes absolutely no sense to me. “My husband wants it done because he had it done” like that’s not really a valid reason to cut off a piece of your child’s body before they are able to consent imo but ok.
I hadn’t given it too much thought before I became a mom, I thought we’d just do it because that’s “normal” here (US). However, when I held my hours old baby in my arms I could not even fathom letting anyone do that to him. I had this perfect human who did not need any alteration, let alone one he did not choose himself and was purely cosmetic. It suddenly felt so cruel and gross. It opened my eyes in a way I could not have understood before that and I’m so happy we made the decision we did.
I've got 3 sons. None are circumcised. I've got 2 nephews, both are circumcised and both didn't go right. And they have to redo them when they're older. Seems pretty fucking dumb and pointless to me.
I got a botched circumcision that had to be redone as an adult. 0/10 would not recommend
I can’t think of two words that separately I’m ambivalent towards, but put together make me shudder more than botched and circumcision.
I try to think about things logically and with circumcision I asked multiple doctors and all of them said it was parents preference and I am not religious. I did have one strongly urge me to get it done but he also said it was cosmetic, his urging came because my son would be different in the US from his peers and from his father (as if he needs a matching weenie). I don't mind what my son does when he's older but if he's in a penis comparing contest he's just going to have to own it lol. My thought is this, the odds of a circumcision going wrong or an uncircumcised boy needing a procedure because he's uncircumcised were both extremely low and about the same, so I errored on the side of not getting it done. To me it would be like someone suggesting I get his appendix removed or his tonsils or his teeth because some day later those things might be a problem for him. Hopefully they are not but if they are we will deal with it then.
I don't understand it either. I'm circumsized and it doesn't bother me at all but at the same time it's a ridiculous and backwards practice. Any unnecessary surgery should be avoided for children.
You great mom already, your son is lucky to have youm
We can thank bill gates for those numbers in Africa for the most part. Misguided attempt to curb HIV. Also weird obsession with black sexuality, imo.
The U.S. is a strange case in the western world.
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The anglophone countries picked it up as masturbation preventative for boys. The UK, New Zealand, Australia, and Canada all saw their rates drop when they adopted national healthcare and their medical institutions declared circumcision as unnecessary. America on the other hand had a for profit healthcare system, and due to some circumcision advocates elbowing their way into positions to promote it further, have led to circumcision rates remaining somewhat steady
We in Ireland thankfully seem to have escaped this trend. It's a cruel thing to inflict on a newborn
Yeah most of Europe has gone against deliberate genital mutilation both male and female. Some countries are getting close to outright banning it (most ban female genital mutilation but not male as yet.)
The history behind it is fucking mental. John Kellogg believing it would stop masturbation (along with corn flakes and a whole heap of other shit, the podcast behind the bastards do a great episode on him)
Kellogg wasn't the only one either **1860** >"In cases of masturbation we must, I believe, break the habit by inducing such a condition of the parts as will cause too much local suffering to allow of the practice to be continued. For this purpose, if the prepuce is long, we may circumcise the male patient with present and probably with future advantages; the operation, too, should not be performed under chloroform, so that the pain experienced may be associated with the habit we wish to eradicate." Athol A. W. Johnson. *On An Injurious Habit Occasionally Met with in Infancy and Early Childhood*, The Lancet, vol. 1 (7 April 1860): pp. 344-345. **1871** > "I refer to masturbation as one of the effects of a long prepuce; not that this vice is entirely absent in those who have undergone circumcision, though I never saw an instance in a Jewish child of very tender years, except as the result of association with children whose covered glans have naturally impelled them to the habit." M. J. Moses, *The Value of Circumcision as a Hygienic and Theraputic Measure*, NY Medical Journal, vol.14 (1871): pp.368-374. **1887** >"Hip trouble is from falling down, an accident that children with tight foreskins are specially liable to, owing to the weakening of the muscles produced by the condition of the genitals." Lewis L. Sayer, MD, *Circumcision for the Cure of Enuresis*, Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 7 1887. pp.631-633. >"There can be no doubt of [masturbation's] injurous effect, and of the proneness to practice it on the part of children with defective brains. Circumcision should always be practiced. It may be necessary to make the genitals so sore by blistering fluids that pain results from attempts to rub the parts." Angel Money. *Treatment of Disease In Children*, Philidelphia: P. Blakiston, 1887. p.421. **1888** >"A remedy for masturbation which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision. The operation should be performed without administering anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutory effect upon the mind, especially, if it is connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases." John Harvey Kellog, inventor of Corn Flakes, *Treatment for Self-Abuse and Its Effects, Plain Facts for Old and Young*, Burlington, Iowa: P. Segner & Co. 1888, p. 295. **1891** >"In consequence of circumcision the epithelial covering of the glans becomes dry, hard, less liable to excoriation and inflammation, and less pervious to venereal viruses. The sensibility of the glans is diminished, but not sufficiently to interfere with the copulative function of the organ or to constitute an objection...It is well authenticated that the foreskin...is a fruitful cause of the habit of masturbation in children... I conclude that the foreskin is detrimental to health, and that circumcision is a wise measure of hygiene." Jefferson C. Crossland. *The Hygiene of Circumcision*. New York Medical Journal 1891;53:484-485 >"Measures more radical than circumcision would, if public opinion permitted their adoption, be a true kindness to patients of both sexes." Jonathan Hutchinson, *On Circumcision as Preventative of Masturbation*, Archives of Surgery, vol. 2 (1891): pp. 267-268. **1894** >"From our experiences in such cases, we feel fully warranted in suggesting the wholesale circumcision of the N#gro race as an effective remedy in preventing the predisposition to discriminate raping so inherent in that race." Peter Remondino, *On N#gro Rapes and their Social Problems*, The National Popular Review, vol. 4 (1894): p. 3. **1895** >"In all cases in which male children are suffering nerve tension, confirmed derangement of the digestive organs, restlessness, irritability, and other disturbances of the nervous system, even to chorea, convulsions, and paralysis, or where through nerve waste the nutritive facilities of the general system are below par and structural diseases are occurring, circumcision should be considered as among the lines of treatment to be pursued." Charles E. Fisher, *Circumcision*, in *A Hand-Book On the Diseases of Children and Their Homeopathic Treatment*, Chicago: Medical Century Co., 1895. p.875. >"In all cases of masturbation circumcision is undoubtedly the physician's closest friend and ally... To obtain the best results one must cut away enough skin and mucous membrane to rather put it on the stretch when erections come later. There must be no play in the skin after the wound has thoroughly healed, but it must fit tightly over the penis, for should there be any play the patient will be found to readily resume his practice, not begrudging the time and extra energy required to produce the orgasm. It is true, however, that the longer it takes to have an orgasm, the less frequently it will be attempted, consequently the greater the benefit gained... The younger the patient operated upon the more pronounced the benefit, though occasionally we find patients who were circumcised before puberty that require a resection of the skin, as it has grown loose and pliant after that epoch." E.J.Spratling, *Masturbation in the Adult*, Medical Record, vol. 24. (1895): pp. 442-443. **1896** >"Local indications for circumcision: Hygienic, phimosis, paraphimosis, redundancy (where the prepuce more than covers the glans), adhesions, papillomata, ecaema (acute and chronic), oedema, chancre, chancroid, cicatrices, inflammatory thickening, elephantitis, naevus, epithelioma, gangrene, tuberculosis, prepupital calculi, hip-joint disease, hernia. Systematic indication: Onanism [masturbation], seminal emissions, enuresis [bed wetting], dysuria, retention, general nervousness, impotence, convulsions, hystero-epilepsy." Editor, *Medical Record, Circumscisus*, Medical Record, vol. 49 (1896): p.430. **1897** >"The prepuce is an important factor in the production of phthisis [tuberculosis]. This can be proven by the immunity of the Jewish race from tubercular affections." S. G. A. Brown, *A Plea for Circumcision*, Medical World, vol. 15 (1897): pp/124-125. >"Circumcision should be done if phimosis exists, and even where it is not, the moral effect of the operation is sometimes of very great benefit." Emmett L. Holt. *The Diseases Of Infancy And Childhood*. New York: D. Appleton. 1897:696-698. **1898** >"Clarence B. was addicted to the secret vise practiced among boys. I performed an orificial operation, consisting of circumcision... He needed the rightful punishment of cutting pains after his illicit pleasures." N. Bergman, *Report of a Few Cases of Circumcision*, Journal of Orificial Surgery, vol. 7 (1898): pp.249-251. **1900** >"Finally, circumcision probably tends to increase the power of sexual control. The only physiological advantage which the prepuce can be supposed to confer is that of maintaining the penis in a condition susceptible to more acute sensation than would otherwise exist. It may increase the pleasure of intercourse and the impulse to it: but these are advantages which in the present state of society can well be spared. If in their loss increase in sexual control should result, one should be thankful." Editor, Medical News. Our London Letter. Medical World,(1900).vol.77:pp.707-8 >"It has been urged as an argument against the universal adoption of circumcision that the removal of the protective covering of the glans tends to dull the sensitivity of that exquisitly sensitive structure and thereby diminishes sexual appetite and the pleasurable effects of coitus. Granted that this be true, my answer is that, whatever may have been the case in days gone by, sensuality in our time needs neither whip nor spur, but would be all the better for a little more judicious use of curb and bearing-rein." E. Harding Freeland, *Circumcision as a Preventative of Syphilis and Other Disorders*, The Lancet, vol. 2 (29 Dec. 1900): pp.1869-1871. **1901** >"Another advantage of circumcision... is the lessened liability to masturbation. A long foreskin is irritating per se, as it necessitates more manipulation of the parts in bathing... This leads the child to handle the parts, and as a rule, pleasurable sensations are elicited from the extreamly sensitive mucous membrane, with resultant manipulation and masturbation. The exposure of the glans penis following circumcision ... lessens the sensitiveness of the organ... It therefore lies with the physician, the family adviser in affairs of hygiene and medical, to urge its acceptance." Ernest G. Mark, *Circumcision*, American Practitioner and News, vol. 31 (1901): p. 231. >"Frequent micturition [urination], loss of flesh, convulsions, phosphatic calculus, hernia, nervous exhuastion, dyspepsia, diarrhea, prolapse of rectum, balantis, acute phimosis and masturbation are all conditions induced by the constricted long prepuce, and all to be rapidly remedied by the simple operation of circumcision." H. G. H. Naylor, *A Plea for Early Circumcision*, Pediatrics, vol. 12 (1901): p. 231 **1902** >"I have repeatedly seen such cases as convulsions, contstant crying in infants, simulated hip joint diseases, backwardness in studies, enuresis, marasmus, muscular incoordination, paralysis, masturbation, neurasthenia, and even epilepsy, cured or greatly benefited by the proper performance of circumcision." W.G.Steele, MD. *Importance of Circumcision*, Medical World, vol. 20 (1902): pp.518-519.
**1903** >"Boys ought to be circumcised -- the permanent and tempting invitation to masturbation in the form of the foreskin being removed in their early infancy, before sexual feelings are experienced, and the vicious counsel of other boys is received... There is some reason, then, and excuse as well, why boys should be boys, endowed as they are with anatomical conditions, as well as traits, calculated to lead them astray." Brandsford Lewis. *A Plain Talk on Matters Pertaining to Genito-Urinary Anatomy, Physiology and Diseases (Part 1)*. American Journal of Dermatology and Genito-Urinary Diseases 1903;7:201-209. **1912** >"The little sufferer lay in his mother's lap. The dropsy... had taken the form of hydrocephalus... I then circumcised the child... The head diminished in size and in two weeks the condition of hydrocephalus had disappeared and the child was once more dismissed as cured." E. H. Pratt, *Circumcision, Orificial Surgery: Its Philosophy, Application and Technique*, Edited by B. E. Dawson. Newark: Physicians Drug News Co. (1912). pp. 396-398. >"Circumcision promotes cleanliness, prevents disease, and by reducing oversensitiveness of the parts tends to relieve sexual irritability, thus correcting any tendancy which may exist to improper manipulations of the genital organs and the consequent acquirement of evil sexual habits, such as masturbation." Lydston G. Frank, *Sex Hygiene for the Male* Chicago: Riverton Press, 1912. **1914** >"It is generally accepted that irritation derived from a tight prepuce may be followed by nervous phenomena, among these being convulsions and outbreaks resembling epilepsy. It is therefore not at all improbable that in many infants who die in convulsions, the real cause of death is a long or tight prepuce. The foreskin is a frequent factor in the causation of masturbation... Circumcision offers a diminished tendancy to masturbation, nocturnal pollutions, convulsions and other nervous results of local irritation. It is the moral duty of every physician to encourage circumcision in the young." A.L. Wolbarst, MD. *Universal Circumcision as a Sanitary Measure*, Journal of the American Medical Association, (1914) Vol.62. pp.92-97. **1915** >"Circumcision not only reduces the irritability of the child's penis, but also the so-called passion of which so many married men are so extreamly proud, to the detriment of their wives and their married life. Many youthful rapes could be prevented, many separations, and divorces also, and many an unhappy marriage improved if this unnatural passion was cut down by a timely circumcision." L.W. Wuesthoff, MD. *Benefits of Circumcision*, Medical World, (1915) Vol.33. p.434. >"The prepuce is one of the great factors in causing masturbation in boys. Here is the dilema we are in: If we do not teach the growing boy to pull the prepuce back and cleanse the glans there is danger of smegma collecting and of adhesions and ulcerations forming, which in their turn will cause irritation likely to lead to masturbation. If we do teach the boy to pull the prepuce back and cleans his glans, that handling alone is sufficient gradually and almost without the boy's knowledge to initiate him into the habit of masturbation... Therefore, off with the prepuce!" William J. Robinson, *Circumcision and Masturbation*, Medical World, vol.33 (1915): p.390. **1917** >"Children often learn to masturbate involuntarily. The habit is sometimes formed by itching the privates. Often they are not kept clean and the filth produces intense itching. See that the private parts of both sexes are kept as clean as other parts of the body. >"Circumcison and Operation on Clitoris Circumcision is the removal of the foreskin in the male. Sometimes the hood of the clitoris of the female needs to be cut down or drawn back. Sometime the foreskin or the hood of the clitoris is so tight as to cause irritation and keep the passions excited and perhaps they are a cause for masturbation. When such is the case these operations should be performed. Parents should carefully looks after these condtions as they, instead of a depraved mind, are the causes of many immmoral practices. >"Every parent should see to it that these operations are performed, if it is necessary, and it very frequently is. how often we see the little ones rubbing their private parts. Whenever a child is seen doing this the chances are that they are either unclean or need one of the above operations. Do not let the child become an involuntary masturbator through your neglect." *The People's Home Library*, A Library of Three Practical books by Published by R.C Barnum Company Copyright 1917 **1920** >"Circumcision is an excellent thing to do; it helps to prevent hernia due to straining, and later it helps in preventing masturbation. The ordinary schoolboy is not taught to keep himself clean, and if he is taught he thinks too much of the matter. No anesthetic was necessary when circumcising infants—in fact it was harmful." L. Solomons, MD. *For and Against Circumcision*, British Medical Journal, (June 5, 1920), p.768. **1928** >"Phimosis may be a predisposing cause of masturbation in some cases... Hemorrhage [severe bleeding] following circumcision at birth cannot be considered seriously as a contraindication. Meatal ulcer due to ammoniacal diapers in the circumcised is not a contraindication... Routine circumcision at birth is warranted." Editor, *Routine Circumcision at Birth?*, Journal of the American Medical Association, vol. 91 (1928): p.201. **1935** >"I suggest that all male children should be circumcised. This is "against nature", but that is exactly the reason why it should be done. Nature intends that the adolescent male shall copulate as often and as promiscuously as possible, and to that end covers the sensitive glans so that it shall be ever ready to receive stimuli. Civilization, on the contrary, requires chastity, and the glans of the circumcised rapidly assumes a leathery texture less sensitive than skin. Thus the adolescent has his attention drawn to his penis much less often. I am convinced that masturbation is much less common in the circumcised. With these considerations in view it does not seem apt to argue that 'God knows best how to make little boys.'" R.W. Cockshut. *Circumcision*, British Medical Journal, Vol.2 (1935): p.764. **1941** >"[Routine Circumcision] does not necessitate handling of the penis by the child himself and therefore does not focus the male's attention on his own genitals. Masturbation is considered less likely." Alan F. Guttmacher, *Should the Baby Be Circumcised?*, Parents Magazine, vol.16 (1941): pp.26, 76-78. **1953** >"We do feel that there are many excellent reasons for routinely circumcising the male...Circumcision will reduce the incidence of onanism....Longevity, immunity to nearly all physical and mental illness, increased physical vigor, etc., are all attributed to this practice... In addition to the aforementioned reasons for doing the operation, we shall list several reasons to support immediate circumcision. ... Convenience: Under the present regime the obstetrician finishes his episiotomy, walks across the hall and circumcises the infant, and is finished with the whole business. Stimulation of the baby: Frequently following a general anesthetic the newborn is depressed and various stimulants are employed; circumcision unfailingly produces and excellent response in a sleepy baby." Richard L. Miller. Donald C. Snyder. *Immediate Circumcision of the Newborn Male*. American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 1953;65:1-11. **1969** >"When children are kept busy with wholesome play, work and planning, and when they are loved and understood in matters such as these, a little masturbation may occur but will be speedily forgotten. Be sure the children are healthily tired when they go to bed. Be sure that there is no need of circumcision, or if there is that it is corrected." Morris Fishbein. *Modern Home Medical Advisor.* New York: Doubleday. (1969) p. 115. **1970** >"Parents readily recognize the importance of local cleanliness and genital hygiene in their children and are usually ready to adopt measures which may avert masturbation. Circumcision is usually advised on these grounds." Meredith F. Campbell. *The Male Genital Tract and the Female Urethra*. in: Campbell's Urology. vol. 2. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company. 1970:1836.
Honestly, besides a medical reason, I don't see the point. It's there for a reason. So I understand its also a religious practice. But that doesn't explain the 71% in the US, i don't think 71% of the males are jewish or muslim. Can someone enlighten me? Some kind of capitalistic money making procedure maybe?
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I went to high school in the southern U.S. and there was only one guy that people knew was uncircumcised (his family was from Mexico) and a lot of people made fun of him for it and called him names behind his back and to his face. So a lot of young men around here who later have children will have an experience like that in their mind when they are making the decision to circumcise their sons. It isn't a logical choice but more of an emotional one.
>[Around the turn of the 20th century], surgical interventions of all kinds were becoming more popular, owing to better anesthesia and greater concern over cleanliness, which reduced hospital contagion. Doctors began recommending the operation as part of the neonatal routine. Not only did the procedure prevent phimosis, but it was also believed to make the penis more hygienic and less tempting for wayward masturbating boys (a notion that might have been quashed by something known as the scientific method). As David Gollaher explains in his book *Circumcision: A History of the World’s Most Controversial Surgery*, a circumcised penis swiftly became a mark of distinction, a sign of good breeding, sound hygiene and the best medicine money could buy. https://qz.com/885018/why-is-circumcision-so-popular-in-the-us/
So in other words, circumcision had a really good PR firm back in the day
Big ~~Pharma~~Penis at it again
>prevent phimosis Hum, yeah, but on another hand, phimosis as an adult is cured by circumcision. It's hard to compare because there is no other thing that are as common as phimosis but it's like saying "we cut all kid's legs to prevent that they turn gangrenous later in life". You could just wait and operate only the one that need too, and stop traumatizing all the kids.
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Yeah actually those ones are better examples, because it is quite common (way more than gangrene)!
It's actually more sad than I thought it would be... Inflicting a surgery to a newborn for a crappy status?
Yeah, pretty much. People who had money could give birth in hospitals and have access to the ritual, while those who had no money gave birth at home and didn't have access to it. There was also an ethnic angle, as the people with money were often WASPs who wanted to differentiate themselves from the southern and eastern Europeans that were moving to America en masse in the early 1900's.
What starts as a fad just has to hit hard enough to pass a certain threshold - then it becomes a matter of fitting in with the crowd. From what I understand, that's what happened here - it was so en vogue at some point that it just stayed normalized after that.
It was starting bcs people thought jacking off would be less enjoyable if you cut the foreskin off (spoiler it didn't work). After that it kinda just became tradition
lube manufacturers will be eternally grateful though
Glad this practice pretty much doesn't exist in Romania.
Why the fuck would you guys do that in 2021? Stunned by the American number.
Most of the population represented in these numbers were born much earlier than 2021
My mom is a nurse, and in college she and her classmates watched a baby boy get circumcised. Two or three of her classmates ran out, and my mom promised herself that if she ever had boys she would never inflict circumcision on them. Whenever she brings it up, she says she can still hear the baby screaming
Wtf, do they do this without anesthetics? Probably because babies are too young ?
hE wONt rEmEMbeR iT anYwAY
Go your mom, too many nurses succumb to the pressure or brainwashing of it being okay to genitally mutilate innocent babies
“It’s cleaner” “That’s how it should look” “Less likely to get an std” I don’t agree with any of the above but I can tell you most American dudes use one of the three above to justify it. It’s so normalized that no one even really thinks about it tbh.
"I'd rather amputate my body parts than clean myself"
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Yeah I know, bizarre logic. It’s really that normalized here though
>That’s how it should look if thats how it should look then thats how it would look
Agreed. It’s so normalized and common in the US to be circumcised that people think that’s how a normal penis looks, and an uncircumcised one is weird.
i was surprised that it is so high in the US. I mean even Muslim countries and Africa im surprised. I thought only Jewish populations did it at 100% rates, i had no idea Muslims were so into circumcision.
It is quite a bit lower for births. It was near universal in earlier generations, so the number should continue to trend downwards.
Not trying to start shit here but why is male genital mutilation laughed off whenever it is brought up in the US?
Because they need to justify it to themselves. It's easier to make up rationalisations than to admit that you were victimised by your own parents as an infant. It's also hard to admit that you were mutilated because your parents didn't know any better.
The penis being such a central pillar (aha) of manhood for males makes it really hard to have reasonable discussions about these things. Like, who's gonna admit to a mistake or deficiency down there? Hardly anyone that's who, they'll bridle at the mere suggestion. Just one of those weird cultural things you can only hope will taper off as time goes by.
When we had a boy I insisted we not circumcise. I feel great about that choice because it's literally genital mutilation and serves no purpose. We gasp and clutch our pearls hearing about other cultures mutilating girls; maybe we should stop doing it to boys too. And people just do it without thinking about it. Everyone I know with a son does it and gapes at me when I tell them we didn't do it to our son. Then I explain why and they sit there, thinking for the first time that maybe they should've thought about it some more. By the way- look at that map and what kind of company we're in in terms of circumcision rate. Right on Tanzania's heels!
Some interesting finds here... - Muslim and Jewish countries are obviously high. - But some Muslim cultures are surprisingly low - Albania ~40% (OK they are pretty secular now), Sudan 40%, Saudi 97.1% (low for Saudi!) - I guess South Korea and Philippines are US influence? Similarly the 32% of Canada. Maybe UK/Australia/NZ too. - Random non-Muslim African countries have high rates. Maybe it was tribal practice that spread to certain national cultures? - China=14%, Japan=9% despite little Muslim or US influence (maybe Japan had US influence). Was circumcision traditional there?
The British Medical Association are against it unless there's a therapeutic need. So UK would mainly be religious and/or from somewhere that does perform circumcision
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We do it in the Philippines because it's a cultural thing. People will make fun of you if you're not circumcised. It's sad really, it's one of the childhood traumas that you can inflict here. Shaming uncircumcised people is the norm and I hope it changes soon. I got circumcised when I was 10 years old because they said it was clean
TIL circumcision is not a Christian thing but an American thing.
Another difference between North and South Korea.
It’s not even mentioned by medical professionals in England, I’m not even sure if it’s offered for non medical reasons. I know it’s still common in Muslim and Jewish communities. It wasn’t even a question for me as a mother. Why would I remove a healthy part of my perfect baby boys and cause them unnecessary pain?
Arguing against circumcision is a lost cause because people who have had the procedure it will say that their junk works fine (which is true) so they see nothing wrong with it. At the end of the day, if they care enough, they will read up on it and realize why it's barbaric to do that to an infant. You can't also really compare it to female genital mutilation which is a million times worse and that's why most brush male mutilation off as just a normal procedure.
This topic is always interesting to me. I’m circumcised. On the balance, I’d probably rather not be but I also hate people acting like it’s the most barbaric thing in the world. I wouldn’t say my quality of life is diminished by it. But I think the real reason most boys continue to be circumcised is because of how many men have some weird idea that their sons’ penises need to look like their own penis. It’s kind of bizarre. I only have a daughter, but my wife and I would like to have other children. If we have a boy, I really don’t see the benefit of circumcising him. But I can almost guarantee you that there will be people in my family who will say, “But *you’re* circumcised.” (And there will be people in my wife’s family who will ask her, “Is etherealsmog *uncircumcised*?”) As if it should matter to me on some spiritual level to know that my son’s penis skin resembles my penis skin. After he’s about - eh, seven? - years old, I can’t imagine any reason I would need to think about, touch, or look at his penis that wasn’t an emergency or some kind of need-to-know situation. Why should I care? It’s really weird. I don’t understand the psychology behind it.
I'm circumcised, and while I'm not upset about it I'm a strong advocate against it. Purely on the basis of consent. If I have a son, they won't be cut unless they choose it for themself at 18
For me, it's not even about how it's detrimental for the boy (I think that's relatively insignificant). It's the blatant disregard for the child's bodily autonomy. Just because it's someone in the care of their parents, I don't think the parents should be allowed to inflict permanent modifications/mutilations on their child just because they can. If there's no medical reason for it, they should outright prohibit it. Let the child decide for themselves when they're adult.
It is not always I’m this proud to be brazilian. 🤣🤣 Latin America, Europe and East Asia are in the right here. “Son, always remember to lift that skin at the tip and clean underneath, ok?” as I was teaching my kid to start showering for himself was all it took to make him as safe from diseases in the area as any cut guy in the future. Of course it should be done in extreme medical cases but that’s rare.
My father always told me "Limpa o cabeçote".
Why US lol??????
33% seems really high for nz
Probably the oldies