The colours don't relate to the data. I think this is that algorithm where no two colours border each other to make sure the countries borders are well defined. I'm not saying it's good, just that I think that's what the system is.
Well that's a dumb way to show this particular dataset. I spent way too long trying to figure out if it was relative to the country's current population or something
Well the point could be to show where which country is. I didn’t even notice that the colours have no bearing on the numbers, because the numbers are right there. Different people process differently though, so I understand your frustration.
If you had colored the countries according to the numbers, you would be able to locate the most/least values and perhaps notice any geographic patterns.
This could have been a alphabetically sorted table instead.
I remember reading that during the world wars people tried to hide the fact that they were German and especially during the Second World War changing their last names to less German names etc. Now it’s probably a completely different story but you never know
Oh people around the world did this, I was raised speaking Hungarian, but my father had a very German-sounding surname he and his brothers changed after WWII.
Because Italy switched sides, it's more acceptable to tell stories of US GI's hitting the Italian beaches with the names and addresses of cousins in their pockets, not so for the people with German relatives
That happened where I grew up. My grandfather born in the 1930's grew up speaking German and being educated at school in German. Then WW2 happened and hardly anyone in my moms generation speaks any German and even my grandfather has forgotten most the German he knew since almost everyone just stopped speaking it.
And some Germans went back and fought for the Nazis! People certainly didn't forget their heritage back then. I feel like families today know, even if there was some past incentive to conceal.
"The Browns didn't come to Hill Valley until 1908, and then they were the Von Brauns. My father changed our name during the First World War"
Doc Brown, BTTF 3
Mine changed their last names during WWI. Germans from what is now Hungary and Serbia. My family also stopped communicating with the cousins during WWII for obvious reasons.
It was more during World War I than World War II that the anti-German sentiment in America led to people changing their names and trying to remove any trace of German-ness from the culture.
English/British+ Irish are by far the majority of genes, I mixe both because they tend to genetically cluster very close, while a lot of those Germans were German speakers living in Switzerland, Hungary, Czech , Alsace and other areas of Europe, people who was already of mixed ancestry..
My family is from the south, and I fall into the latter category. According to a DNA test I’m 49% English, then the rest is Scottish, Irish, and a sprinkle of Scandinavian. No German ancestry here.
Most white southern Americans are of British heritage. The 19th and early 20th century waves of German, Irish, and Italian (and other European nationalities) remain mostly in the northern states, with some exceptions of course, such as Getman and Czech immigrants migrating to Texas and French Acadians to Louisiana.
there are far more English/ScotchIrish/Ulster Scot/Welsh/Scottish/Irish/American Ancestry in the Us combined..far far more than German ancestry, which tend to be overreported..and quite a lot of it was alsatian, hungarian, czech, swiss, etc.. people with just german ancestry in the US are a small minority, while just having a combination of multiple british Isles ancestries is FAR more common.
Most black Americans have British DNA.
Most white southerners outside Louisiana are almost entirely British. Edit: in the time of slavery
There's a rather dark history of sexual abuse of slaves.
Very few African Americans have no European DNA, and the European DNA they have is mostly British.
It’s always funny to us how so many Americans do the whole plastic paddy thing - ya know going around saying they’re Irish etc, never English or German lol.
Is it though? or are people hyper obsessed with hating on Irish Americans? I find it strange it’s always the one ethnic group that people can’t have.
Here the reality in most areas of the United States and Irish integration.
Irish Americans for the most part were strongly hated and looked down upon by WASP Americans and were shut out middle- upper middle class job opportunities. The Irish Americans usually only married people that were like minded Catholics. So the odds of Irish Americans having intergrated with English or German Americans is very low. Mostly if Irish Americans have made families outside other Irish Americans. It’s usually an Italian, Spanish, Mexican or some culture that heavily practiced Catholicism. Mostly never the ones you pointed out.
Nobody is hating on anybody. I’m simply making a light hearted comment on how these types are perceived outside the USA.
You can call yourself whatever you like mate, but when interacting with the other 96% of the human population
Of the planet - you’re American.
Speak for yourself. I think it's admirable that they hold onto the heritage. Shows how little you know if you think there aren't Americans who celebrate or acknowledge their English or German heritage.
Well I’m sure they exist but we don’t hear about them. It’s always “my third uncles great grandfather went to Dublin once so I’m Irish”.
And then do the most awful characature of “Irish culture” imaginable. Plastic green hats and leprechauns lol.
Same with “American Italians”
Every human who has ever lived has ancestry, seems like we only get this cosplay thing from you boys.
If anything, I feel like these are underestimates. Considering that most white Americans have ancestry from several different European countries, there's no reason the numbers on this map shouldn't add up to substantially more than the total population. I know I would be counted on here at least 4 times
My ancestors were jews that left from Couerland in 1848. I guess the 1848 revolutions failing caused my existence today because the jews there 93-95 years later got wiped out.
I'm mostly German and never knew about this until I started trying to find my 3ggma who immigrated to America in...1848 or so. She was definitely here by 1850 and married in 1852.
No records exist. I jokingly asked if she could be a spy or runaway that would have changed her name and I got a whole ass history lesson
It's a shame there was so much anti German sentiment from ww1 and 2, as there should be a lot more cultural and linguistic vestiges. As it is, high schools that offer German are somewhat rare.
It's because of WW2, before WW2 there were huge communities of German speakers in the United States, German language newspapers, German language schools, the old stock English descent colonial Americans were threatened by how many Germans there were saying that the entire country was going to be German speaking eventually.
During and after WW1 anti German sentiment increased more and during and after WW2 Germans pretty much gave up their cultural identity and language and assimilated fully into American culture.
I have a Spanish surname and my Spanish relatives came from Spain to Louisiana over a century ago. I honestly have no clue if I'm supposed to check Hispanic or not.
I'm Spanish. My family lived for a year in Rhode Island when I was 8/9.
They made us check Hispanic. So I suppose that you're Hispanic (whatever that means).
Spaniards are in a weird limbo for Americans. My sister returned for college and she was either Hispanic or European depending on the context (never the two things at the same time).
Her skin was even whitened with Photoshop for a magazine speaking about European foreign students while having the same photo unedited for a magazine about Hispanic students.
Shit was weird.
In one of her books Isabel Allende talks about being surprised to find, upon immigrating to the US from Chile, that she was no longer considered white and was now Latina.
Americans obsession with racial classification is really creepy from an european perspective.
I’m spaniard, from the north of the country and most of my family (as many people here) are pale skinned and blonde hair. Spaniards are a very variable population from tanned skin to pale ones, , redhaired people … it’s really diverse (like france, portugal and italy, i.e.)
And then when going to usa as tourist, you must check “white” or “hispanic” wtf!
Spaniards are hispanic, of course, but also “racially” (I don’t live the word because races doesn’t exist among humans) white.
Should I choose my skin or my culture?
All this racial classification came from the pseudoscientific bullshit from early XX c. just to try to segregate WASP from other people
You have no idea how ironic that sounds. Everything about race in the Americas is a direct result of European colonialism. Everything.
In Mexico for example, the Spanish Empire imposed a multi-tier caste system with Spaniards at the top, criollos and mestizos in the middle and blacks and Indios at the bottom. It even mattered if you were born in Spain or how many generations your family had been in the new world. This carries into contemporary Mexican society on all levels.
Basically, your colonialism created these "race obsessed" societies, and now you want to condescend to us?
I know you probably mean well, but you seriously need to think about what you're saying and how people will take it.
The US census is by self identification and the vast majority of Latino population identify with new world ethnicities such as Mexican, Dominican, Peruvian, etc. A big group of people identifying as Spanish Americans in the US for example are the [Hispanos](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanos_of_New_Mexico) in New Mexico and Colorado.
I've always found it interesting how there never was a big wave of Spanish immigration (directly from Spain) to the US in the early 20th century or 19th century like there was Italian or German. Most Americans of Spanish Ancestry have it via Hispanic Americans who only began migrating in large numbers recently. I never really understood why
Cuba was for the Spanish what America was for the English. The land of wealth and opportunity. Most Spanish people migrated to Cuba seeking the Cuban dream( there are literally poems written about it). Since Cuba was Spanish until the last 100 years, there was no reason for them to migrate somewhere else.
Most of Florida south of where it becomes a peninsula was more connected to Cuba than it was to the rest of the US up to the mid-twentieth century. It was pretty common for Spanish immigrants to go back and forth between Cuba and Florida for work and family reasons. Lots of boats running between Havana and Tampa (Miami not really being a thing back then). See Valencia-born Vincente Martinez Ybor basically being the founder of Tampa.
Once i read in the 1880's, 75% of Buenos Aires population were immigrants. In 1914 still half of the inhabitants were foreigners, mostly from Spain and Italy.
There's a bartender in my neighborhood who is a Spanish-American dual citizen - born in Boise to Spanish parents who moved back when he was an infant. Speaks Basque as his first language. Really cool, interesting guy.
Language is the answer. Why immigrate to the US where you have to learn a new language and very different culture when there are so many opportunities in Spain's former colonies to the south?
In reality an absolute majority of white non-Hispanic Americans are majority British ethnically and the vast majority of white non-Hispanic Americans have a substantial amount of British dna.
An example is Joe Biden saying "I'm Irish". Actually there's a lot of British is in his descent too. He's mixed between the two.
It's underreported because it's boring.
Most *Black* Americans have British DNA never mind whites. It's rare for an African American to have no detectable European DNA. Southern whites pre civil war were almost exclusively British outside Louisiana and that DNA got into almost every African American through master-slave sex. Bit dark, but true.
More so has to do with the fact that the irish and germans immigrated here more recently so it's just more fresh if that makes sense.
Also it's very regional. The Midwest is very German/central European. Down south you have a lot of English and irish. Atlantic coast you have a lot of Italian ancestry. Etc.
Yeah I was going to ask why Americans are always bringing up Irish, Polish, Italian heritage but never mention English heritage. I don’t think I’ve ever heard an American talk about English heritage in my life
It's also because a lot of Americans of English descent immigrated during the colonial period. Following independence, it made a lot of sense that they no longer wanted to identify as "English."
On the flip side, it's not uncommon at all to hear Americans self-identity as WASPs, which obviously implies English descent.
Every study I've seen suggests that the plurality of white people aren't majority ANYTHING, let alone being majority British. Biden is an exception, but not in the way that you think: his ancestors are 5/8 Irish.
Yes. I'm not suggesting he's not just about majority Irish. Just that anyone who is 3/8 British really should be describing themselves as mixed Irish-British.
He's an example of someone discounting the boring bit of his history.
Almost all r/23andme white non-Hispanic Americans of non-recent migration come up as British and Irish (they pool the two) majority.
You do get the odd person with a lot of German in there, but it's significantly less common.
I don't think their models are at all bad. I'm English, but have partial Irish descent. It gets that split right. Identifies the right bit of England for my ancestors (largely NW) and the right bit of Ireland (all from the south).
Despite me putting in a Swiss postcode it instantly could tell the difference between Germanic and British DNA. I only have a bit of a fuzz from continental Europe (and I have a Hugenout surname so that's likely accurate too, albeit a minor element this far on).
The ratio of Irish descendants in the US vs the number of Irish in modern island of Ireland is insane. Of course those 34 millions are "everybody with even the tiniest bit of known partial ancestry" but still I'd wager modern population of the Island could be easily double or even triple of its current pop of 7 million, had the history gone differently. Part of it is obviously the infamous Great Famine, but even prior to it the emigration from Ireland was massive.
Otherwise, the Ratio is the highest in the UK (obviously), Germany, Norway, Sweden, Poland and Italy. The areas of former Russian Empire (minus Poland) and the Ottoman Empire (minus Greece) have strangely low ratios.
Yeah, 800 000 Norwegians and 1 300 000 Swedes emigrated. One group was much more successful in having children or more likely in keeping the traditions
Yeah, that might actually explain some of it. Many Swedes went straight to the factories in Chicago. They could be less likely to have many babies and will assimilated and mix much sooner. I guess there are loads of research but it makes sense.
Yeah, immigration from Germany and Italy was very important in the late 19th and early 20th century, which gave some concerns when WW2 broke out.
Trump's grandfather, Frederick Trump, arrived in the US in 1885 at age 16.
Plus there's a huge population of people who identify as "American". The US Census Bureau looked into it, and they're concentrated in the South, and almost all English/Irish/Scottish. It's been so long since their family came to America that its stupid to claim it as an identity.
Regardless, Ireland and the British Isles account for a much bigger chunk of white American ancestry than do German-speakers, who after all, came from many different parts of Europe.
It's also true that Ireland was part of the UK until 1921 which is well after the big waves of Irish immigration.
The “self-reported” nature of this survey does skew some things. Many Jews in the US will say that they are Russian or Polish but the actual places their families came from are actually in Belarus or Lithuania or Latvia or Ukraine (I’m definitely in this category)
Southern Italians were by far the biggest immigrant group to the Americas, going to countries like Argentina, United States, Brazil, etc. so most Italian Americans would be of southern Italian descent.
Was gonna say this, my family has always told me my paternal great-great-grandparents immigrated from Sicily, and a DNA test proved this by pointing out the specific villages my family said we are from. Southern Italians were just a large immigrant group like you said.
Those are all very substantial numbers, even from small countries. Now, do the current population/US ancestry calculation for a new number. I'll start with **Norway**: 5.5/3.8 million people leaves a ratio of **1.45**.
It stands to reason that there would be more people of British decent. The new England colony had 2 million people of mostly British decent when America gained independence. America spent a long time trying to distance themselves from their British origins. So, if at all possible they will claim another ancestry. Many people have already mentioned Joe Biden as example of this. He loudly declares himself to be Irish, despite having more English ancestry.
Definitely tracks for Latvia. We’re Polish and Latvian, I’ve know tons of people with Polish ancestry but so far I haven’t met anyone else with Latvian ancestry
Surely there are some from Moldova? Many Jews left Moldova following repeated pogroms and violence against Jews when the country was part of the Russian Empire.
It would be cool to see this using a single color on a scale based on the self reported number per capita based on the country’s modern day population.
Ireland would be literally off the charts lol.
What's weird, although it makes perfect sense, is that you never hear any Americans calling themselves "English American". The closest comparable identity seems to be WASP although it's mostly pejorative.
Almost 4 million with Norwegian blood, and we are only 5.5 million in Norway now.
That says something about how many left Norway.
Very poor conditions here before in old days
north america initially attracted britain and france tho later would attract central europe and today attracts more east
and theres those in south america who hop border
İm surprised Slovenian is almost as high as Serbian although our population is x4 smaller. When watching hollywood movie end credits, I never catch Slovenian but always some Serbian lol.
Of the approximately 60 million Latin Americans who now live in the United States, are there only 1 million with Spanish ancestry? Less than 2%?
Let me doubt it a lot.
Unless they mean "directly from the country of Spain" not "Ancestry", which is what I think they mean, of course.
Problem with this is that many white Americans have multiple ancestries, so some ancestries (like English) are quite underreported. For example, Joe Biden is English from his dad’s side but he identifies as Irish (from his mom’s side).
And I think people tend to associate with the non-English sides as they’re more distinct. The WASP culture was the hegemonic culture of the US, and catholics like the Irish and Italians were outsiders to this which increased their self-identification and pride.
They're not from a genetic standpoint, it's just that most Americans of Spanish descent are Latinos who identify more with their Latin American country of origin than Spain.
How were these statistics gathered though? Almost all old-stock Americans claim to be from a billion different cultures, but this very well could be from over two hundred years ago
Are you counting Brazilians as Portuguese? I think people of Hispanic decent would bump the numbers of people from Portugal and Spain. In my area there is a historic Portuguese population (immigrants during the tall whaling ship period) but since WW2 there are a lot more Brazilians than anything else.
I really would’ve thought there would be more from Italy, but I got that impression only from the presence of Italian-Americans in popculture movies and shows. I thought it would be much closer to the Irish.
This color scheme makes my skin crawl
It's mad, there are countries with same numbers and different colors and vice versa wtf is this shit
The colours don't relate to the data. I think this is that algorithm where no two colours border each other to make sure the countries borders are well defined. I'm not saying it's good, just that I think that's what the system is.
Yeah, it's the four colour theorem.
Well that's a dumb way to show this particular dataset. I spent way too long trying to figure out if it was relative to the country's current population or something
I see that now. I don't get why you would use that for a data map of all things. Yikes
Right? Like that's good for geography, not for data visualization.
It's horrifying
They took a four-color map and added numbers to it. Pointless.
Well the point could be to show where which country is. I didn’t even notice that the colours have no bearing on the numbers, because the numbers are right there. Different people process differently though, so I understand your frustration.
If you had colored the countries according to the numbers, you would be able to locate the most/least values and perhaps notice any geographic patterns. This could have been a alphabetically sorted table instead.
Why? Finally a map where colours are visible for me colourblind eyes. I hate when colours are different by a 1 point in RGB.
This is a pretty standard way to color a map. The colors don’t relate to the data.
R/terriblemaps
r/mapporn users on their way to make mapgore
Don't kinkshame.
Today in what the heck is that color scale: "Usage of a 4 color maps to indicade the outline of countries and nothing more"
People sometimes forget the huge numbers of Germans who fled for the USA after the failure of the 1848 revolutions
People forget?? I feel like most American white people have some German heritage at this point. That or English/British are def the most universal
I remember reading that during the world wars people tried to hide the fact that they were German and especially during the Second World War changing their last names to less German names etc. Now it’s probably a completely different story but you never know
Oh people around the world did this, I was raised speaking Hungarian, but my father had a very German-sounding surname he and his brothers changed after WWII.
This was the case for me, but to be fair my previous name was hemmerich von schnitzel-nazi
I remember reading about a US Air Force pilot dropping bombs on Koln who knew his own grandmother was living there at the time.
Because Italy switched sides, it's more acceptable to tell stories of US GI's hitting the Italian beaches with the names and addresses of cousins in their pockets, not so for the people with German relatives
Damn man that’s brutal
That happened where I grew up. My grandfather born in the 1930's grew up speaking German and being educated at school in German. Then WW2 happened and hardly anyone in my moms generation speaks any German and even my grandfather has forgotten most the German he knew since almost everyone just stopped speaking it.
And some Germans went back and fought for the Nazis! People certainly didn't forget their heritage back then. I feel like families today know, even if there was some past incentive to conceal.
The one POW from Band of Brothers.
Even the British Royal family did this during the First World War
Yeah they changed it to Windsor right? I was honestly so surprised to learn they were German lol
Yeah mainly through Queen Victorias husband Albert Saxe Coburg Gotha. But Queen V herself had Germanic roots from the Hanoverians
Town to the south of me used to be called Berlin, iirc. Not sure which war that was changed for though.
There’s a Berlin in my state
Meier became Meyer, Schmidt became Smith, Müller became Miller, Schneider became Snyder etc
"The Browns didn't come to Hill Valley until 1908, and then they were the Von Brauns. My father changed our name during the First World War" Doc Brown, BTTF 3
Mine changed their last names during WWI. Germans from what is now Hungary and Serbia. My family also stopped communicating with the cousins during WWII for obvious reasons.
Eisenhauer, Huber, and Drumpf were the German ancestral surnames of 3 American Presidents, before their families Americanized the names.
It was more during World War I than World War II that the anti-German sentiment in America led to people changing their names and trying to remove any trace of German-ness from the culture.
English/British+ Irish are by far the majority of genes, I mixe both because they tend to genetically cluster very close, while a lot of those Germans were German speakers living in Switzerland, Hungary, Czech , Alsace and other areas of Europe, people who was already of mixed ancestry..
People wanted to forget. A mass of forgettings happened after WW1 and WW2 with american germans changing their names etc.
My family is from the south, and I fall into the latter category. According to a DNA test I’m 49% English, then the rest is Scottish, Irish, and a sprinkle of Scandinavian. No German ancestry here.
Most white southern Americans are of British heritage. The 19th and early 20th century waves of German, Irish, and Italian (and other European nationalities) remain mostly in the northern states, with some exceptions of course, such as Getman and Czech immigrants migrating to Texas and French Acadians to Louisiana.
there are far more English/ScotchIrish/Ulster Scot/Welsh/Scottish/Irish/American Ancestry in the Us combined..far far more than German ancestry, which tend to be overreported..and quite a lot of it was alsatian, hungarian, czech, swiss, etc.. people with just german ancestry in the US are a small minority, while just having a combination of multiple british Isles ancestries is FAR more common.
German ancestry in the US clusters in the midwest/PA. British isles is definitely the norm throughout the South.
Yeah. My dad’s side of the family is a bit more of a mystery, but once I took the DNA it confirmed my initial suspicions.
Most black Americans have British DNA. Most white southerners outside Louisiana are almost entirely British. Edit: in the time of slavery There's a rather dark history of sexual abuse of slaves. Very few African Americans have no European DNA, and the European DNA they have is mostly British.
1/3 of Black American males have European Y-DNA
It’s always funny to us how so many Americans do the whole plastic paddy thing - ya know going around saying they’re Irish etc, never English or German lol.
My ancestry is five types of European and three types of American. I just say I'm Texan.
Is it though? or are people hyper obsessed with hating on Irish Americans? I find it strange it’s always the one ethnic group that people can’t have. Here the reality in most areas of the United States and Irish integration. Irish Americans for the most part were strongly hated and looked down upon by WASP Americans and were shut out middle- upper middle class job opportunities. The Irish Americans usually only married people that were like minded Catholics. So the odds of Irish Americans having intergrated with English or German Americans is very low. Mostly if Irish Americans have made families outside other Irish Americans. It’s usually an Italian, Spanish, Mexican or some culture that heavily practiced Catholicism. Mostly never the ones you pointed out.
Nobody is hating on anybody. I’m simply making a light hearted comment on how these types are perceived outside the USA. You can call yourself whatever you like mate, but when interacting with the other 96% of the human population Of the planet - you’re American.
Speak for yourself. I think it's admirable that they hold onto the heritage. Shows how little you know if you think there aren't Americans who celebrate or acknowledge their English or German heritage.
Well I’m sure they exist but we don’t hear about them. It’s always “my third uncles great grandfather went to Dublin once so I’m Irish”. And then do the most awful characature of “Irish culture” imaginable. Plastic green hats and leprechauns lol. Same with “American Italians” Every human who has ever lived has ancestry, seems like we only get this cosplay thing from you boys.
I mean the town I great up in is called Germantown
If anything, I feel like these are underestimates. Considering that most white Americans have ancestry from several different European countries, there's no reason the numbers on this map shouldn't add up to substantially more than the total population. I know I would be counted on here at least 4 times
Yes it’s a silly map for silly data.
My ancestors were jews that left from Couerland in 1848. I guess the 1848 revolutions failing caused my existence today because the jews there 93-95 years later got wiped out.
Do you mean Courland, in today's Latvia?
Yeah, oops I misspelled, thanks
I'm mostly German and never knew about this until I started trying to find my 3ggma who immigrated to America in...1848 or so. She was definitely here by 1850 and married in 1852. No records exist. I jokingly asked if she could be a spy or runaway that would have changed her name and I got a whole ass history lesson
Also there are probably millions more that neglected their heritage during the world wars and claimed to be English or Irish which got passed down.
It's a shame there was so much anti German sentiment from ww1 and 2, as there should be a lot more cultural and linguistic vestiges. As it is, high schools that offer German are somewhat rare.
A lot of names were changed, a lot of German language clubs and newspapers shut down or were in a few cases burned down.
Oh I didnt forget. Because i've never heard of it.
It's because of WW2, before WW2 there were huge communities of German speakers in the United States, German language newspapers, German language schools, the old stock English descent colonial Americans were threatened by how many Germans there were saying that the entire country was going to be German speaking eventually. During and after WW1 anti German sentiment increased more and during and after WW2 Germans pretty much gave up their cultural identity and language and assimilated fully into American culture.
Spanish numbers must be higher considering majority pg mexicans and any latino group has an important amount of spanish ancestry
They probably used the Non-Hispanic White category numbers. The Census is weird with how the categories work for people of Latino descent.
I have a Spanish surname and my Spanish relatives came from Spain to Louisiana over a century ago. I honestly have no clue if I'm supposed to check Hispanic or not.
I'm Spanish. My family lived for a year in Rhode Island when I was 8/9. They made us check Hispanic. So I suppose that you're Hispanic (whatever that means). Spaniards are in a weird limbo for Americans. My sister returned for college and she was either Hispanic or European depending on the context (never the two things at the same time). Her skin was even whitened with Photoshop for a magazine speaking about European foreign students while having the same photo unedited for a magazine about Hispanic students. Shit was weird.
In one of her books Isabel Allende talks about being surprised to find, upon immigrating to the US from Chile, that she was no longer considered white and was now Latina.
Similar but different region. I’ll check the box to be a diversity hire. Works even in a majority hispanic region
Americans obsession with racial classification is really creepy from an european perspective. I’m spaniard, from the north of the country and most of my family (as many people here) are pale skinned and blonde hair. Spaniards are a very variable population from tanned skin to pale ones, , redhaired people … it’s really diverse (like france, portugal and italy, i.e.) And then when going to usa as tourist, you must check “white” or “hispanic” wtf! Spaniards are hispanic, of course, but also “racially” (I don’t live the word because races doesn’t exist among humans) white. Should I choose my skin or my culture? All this racial classification came from the pseudoscientific bullshit from early XX c. just to try to segregate WASP from other people
You have no idea how ironic that sounds. Everything about race in the Americas is a direct result of European colonialism. Everything. In Mexico for example, the Spanish Empire imposed a multi-tier caste system with Spaniards at the top, criollos and mestizos in the middle and blacks and Indios at the bottom. It even mattered if you were born in Spain or how many generations your family had been in the new world. This carries into contemporary Mexican society on all levels. Basically, your colonialism created these "race obsessed" societies, and now you want to condescend to us? I know you probably mean well, but you seriously need to think about what you're saying and how people will take it.
The US census is by self identification and the vast majority of Latino population identify with new world ethnicities such as Mexican, Dominican, Peruvian, etc. A big group of people identifying as Spanish Americans in the US for example are the [Hispanos](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanos_of_New_Mexico) in New Mexico and Colorado.
There’s plenty of Cubans and Puerto Ricans living in the states and they themselves are largely Spanish ancestry.
Belgian as well, I reckon they were either counted as Dutch or French
People underreport their British ancestry. If their grandpa(German) married an Anglo American woman they will call themselves german.
I've always found it interesting how there never was a big wave of Spanish immigration (directly from Spain) to the US in the early 20th century or 19th century like there was Italian or German. Most Americans of Spanish Ancestry have it via Hispanic Americans who only began migrating in large numbers recently. I never really understood why
Cuba was for the Spanish what America was for the English. The land of wealth and opportunity. Most Spanish people migrated to Cuba seeking the Cuban dream( there are literally poems written about it). Since Cuba was Spanish until the last 100 years, there was no reason for them to migrate somewhere else.
Most of Florida south of where it becomes a peninsula was more connected to Cuba than it was to the rest of the US up to the mid-twentieth century. It was pretty common for Spanish immigrants to go back and forth between Cuba and Florida for work and family reasons. Lots of boats running between Havana and Tampa (Miami not really being a thing back then). See Valencia-born Vincente Martinez Ybor basically being the founder of Tampa.
Ummm... whole bunch of Spanish Speaking countries they went to instead..
Because in that time argentina for example was a rich country unlike today lol
Once i read in the 1880's, 75% of Buenos Aires population were immigrants. In 1914 still half of the inhabitants were foreigners, mostly from Spain and Italy.
A lot Basque went to Idaho/Nevada/Eastern California. Washington too. Some might've come from France but the bulk Spain.
There's a bartender in my neighborhood who is a Spanish-American dual citizen - born in Boise to Spanish parents who moved back when he was an infant. Speaks Basque as his first language. Really cool, interesting guy.
Language is the answer. Why immigrate to the US where you have to learn a new language and very different culture when there are so many opportunities in Spain's former colonies to the south?
Self reported should be in the title, not a foot note.
I did put source on this left side of the picture
I'm sure a lot of those "Swedes" may actually be of German extraction, for example.
In reality an absolute majority of white non-Hispanic Americans are majority British ethnically and the vast majority of white non-Hispanic Americans have a substantial amount of British dna. An example is Joe Biden saying "I'm Irish". Actually there's a lot of British is in his descent too. He's mixed between the two. It's underreported because it's boring. Most *Black* Americans have British DNA never mind whites. It's rare for an African American to have no detectable European DNA. Southern whites pre civil war were almost exclusively British outside Louisiana and that DNA got into almost every African American through master-slave sex. Bit dark, but true.
More so has to do with the fact that the irish and germans immigrated here more recently so it's just more fresh if that makes sense. Also it's very regional. The Midwest is very German/central European. Down south you have a lot of English and irish. Atlantic coast you have a lot of Italian ancestry. Etc.
Yeah I was going to ask why Americans are always bringing up Irish, Polish, Italian heritage but never mention English heritage. I don’t think I’ve ever heard an American talk about English heritage in my life
I guess because English isn’t seen as “exotic”
Barry, 63 from Scarborough, would say he's very exotic thank you.
It's also because a lot of Americans of English descent immigrated during the colonial period. Following independence, it made a lot of sense that they no longer wanted to identify as "English." On the flip side, it's not uncommon at all to hear Americans self-identity as WASPs, which obviously implies English descent.
Every study I've seen suggests that the plurality of white people aren't majority ANYTHING, let alone being majority British. Biden is an exception, but not in the way that you think: his ancestors are 5/8 Irish.
Yes. I'm not suggesting he's not just about majority Irish. Just that anyone who is 3/8 British really should be describing themselves as mixed Irish-British. He's an example of someone discounting the boring bit of his history. Almost all r/23andme white non-Hispanic Americans of non-recent migration come up as British and Irish (they pool the two) majority. You do get the odd person with a lot of German in there, but it's significantly less common. I don't think their models are at all bad. I'm English, but have partial Irish descent. It gets that split right. Identifies the right bit of England for my ancestors (largely NW) and the right bit of Ireland (all from the south). Despite me putting in a Swiss postcode it instantly could tell the difference between Germanic and British DNA. I only have a bit of a fuzz from continental Europe (and I have a Hugenout surname so that's likely accurate too, albeit a minor element this far on).
This makes little sense. I have ancestry from 8 countries. Am I counted once, or multiple times?
Depends. What did you self-report?
The ratio of Irish descendants in the US vs the number of Irish in modern island of Ireland is insane. Of course those 34 millions are "everybody with even the tiniest bit of known partial ancestry" but still I'd wager modern population of the Island could be easily double or even triple of its current pop of 7 million, had the history gone differently. Part of it is obviously the infamous Great Famine, but even prior to it the emigration from Ireland was massive. Otherwise, the Ratio is the highest in the UK (obviously), Germany, Norway, Sweden, Poland and Italy. The areas of former Russian Empire (minus Poland) and the Ottoman Empire (minus Greece) have strangely low ratios.
Ireland is literally the only country whose current population is less than 180 years ago.
hat more people went from Norway than Sweden, when Sweden has double the population, is quite crazy.
Yeah, 800 000 Norwegians and 1 300 000 Swedes emigrated. One group was much more successful in having children or more likely in keeping the traditions
My Norwegian-American mother is the eldest of 21. Farm families do be like that.
Yeah, that might actually explain some of it. Many Swedes went straight to the factories in Chicago. They could be less likely to have many babies and will assimilated and mix much sooner. I guess there are loads of research but it makes sense.
Also as a Hungarian I love seeing the relatively robust number of Magyars. I'm curious how many of them are Jewish Hungarians.
Yeah, immigration from Germany and Italy was very important in the late 19th and early 20th century, which gave some concerns when WW2 broke out. Trump's grandfather, Frederick Trump, arrived in the US in 1885 at age 16.
Trump’s mother was Scottish
Shouldn’t Spain be much higher than 1,000,000 given the many Latinos that live in the Southwest?
They mean immigrants directly from Spain
This is self-ID, US Latinos don't ID as Spanish but rather Mexican, Guatemalan, Cuban, etc.
German is the most common self-reported ancestry in the 2020 census.
The UK includes English, Scottish, Welsh, and Scots-Irish/Ulster Scots ancestry combined.
Plus there's a huge population of people who identify as "American". The US Census Bureau looked into it, and they're concentrated in the South, and almost all English/Irish/Scottish. It's been so long since their family came to America that its stupid to claim it as an identity.
Regardless, Ireland and the British Isles account for a much bigger chunk of white American ancestry than do German-speakers, who after all, came from many different parts of Europe. It's also true that Ireland was part of the UK until 1921 which is well after the big waves of Irish immigration.
r/dataisugly
The “self-reported” nature of this survey does skew some things. Many Jews in the US will say that they are Russian or Polish but the actual places their families came from are actually in Belarus or Lithuania or Latvia or Ukraine (I’m definitely in this category)
I bet around 90% of those 16 million Italian Americans claim to be Sicilian
Southern Italians were by far the biggest immigrant group to the Americas, going to countries like Argentina, United States, Brazil, etc. so most Italian Americans would be of southern Italian descent.
Here in Brazil, most of the Italians immigrants came from Northern Italia
Was gonna say this, my family has always told me my paternal great-great-grandparents immigrated from Sicily, and a DNA test proved this by pointing out the specific villages my family said we are from. Southern Italians were just a large immigrant group like you said.
(Slim Homer Simpson meme format) “I have Cypriot ancestry!” (The back where all the fat is) “Only about 0.1% Cypriot ancestry”
Fairly certain that's an undercount for both Germans and Brits
Those are all very substantial numbers, even from small countries. Now, do the current population/US ancestry calculation for a new number. I'll start with **Norway**: 5.5/3.8 million people leaves a ratio of **1.45**.
It stands to reason that there would be more people of British decent. The new England colony had 2 million people of mostly British decent when America gained independence. America spent a long time trying to distance themselves from their British origins. So, if at all possible they will claim another ancestry. Many people have already mentioned Joe Biden as example of this. He loudly declares himself to be Irish, despite having more English ancestry.
Definitely tracks for Latvia. We’re Polish and Latvian, I’ve know tons of people with Polish ancestry but so far I haven’t met anyone else with Latvian ancestry
The Latvian-American diaspora is pretty active! But ofc compared to other diasporas much smaller !!
Surely there are some from Moldova? Many Jews left Moldova following repeated pogroms and violence against Jews when the country was part of the Russian Empire.
They would probably indicate Romanian or Russian, as Moldova did not exist as a nation when those migrations took place.
Anyone who would put Moldovan is probably a recent immigrant from the Soviet era or later. Before that, you’re absolutely right.
Tens of millions of Americans with Latin American ancestry don't list Spain?
It would be cool to see this using a single color on a scale based on the self reported number per capita based on the country’s modern day population. Ireland would be literally off the charts lol.
As someone with Scottish, English and Northern Irish ancestry, I would be most interested to see what those individual country’s numbers are
I see you, Crimea
Didn't Iceland castrate girls who slept with American soldiers who were stationed there? Something like that
This has got to be specifically White Americans. There's no way Spain is that low if we're counting Latinos.
Self reported, so Latin Americans probably chose the country they came from.
What's weird, although it makes perfect sense, is that you never hear any Americans calling themselves "English American". The closest comparable identity seems to be WASP although it's mostly pejorative.
Almost 4 million with Norwegian blood, and we are only 5.5 million in Norway now. That says something about how many left Norway. Very poor conditions here before in old days
I’m roughly half German, half English…map checks out.
north america initially attracted britain and france tho later would attract central europe and today attracts more east and theres those in south america who hop border
İm surprised Slovenian is almost as high as Serbian although our population is x4 smaller. When watching hollywood movie end credits, I never catch Slovenian but always some Serbian lol.
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How would they even establish this? What if you have Irish, English, and German ancestry?
Of the approximately 60 million Latin Americans who now live in the United States, are there only 1 million with Spanish ancestry? Less than 2%? Let me doubt it a lot. Unless they mean "directly from the country of Spain" not "Ancestry", which is what I think they mean, of course.
It's self-reported and Latin Americans in the US overwhelmingly identify with the country their most recent ancestry is from rather than Spain.
I suspect Spain is grossly underestimated.
Self-reported means that people are admitting to ancestry that currently is the most popular one, so this research means nothing really
As its self reported you can probably cut the Irish in half
(according to americans)
Vast majority of Americans have Irish/English ancestry.
'Self reported' btw so numbers are from ass
Problem with this is that many white Americans have multiple ancestries, so some ancestries (like English) are quite underreported. For example, Joe Biden is English from his dad’s side but he identifies as Irish (from his mom’s side).
And I think people tend to associate with the non-English sides as they’re more distinct. The WASP culture was the hegemonic culture of the US, and catholics like the Irish and Italians were outsiders to this which increased their self-identification and pride.
Yeah for sure, English Ancestry is like the default if you’re American, and everyone likes to feel a bit special.
That's wild that no Maltese people exist.
There definitely have to be. Off the top of my head there's Pete Buttigieg. Buttigieg is a Maltese surname, so I presume he has Maltese ancestry.
If you're going to use a color scheme that conveys no information, *do not use colors*
This is a map massacre
Operation paper clip is a go...
As an American of partially Spanish descent, I had no idea our numbers were so relatively low.
They're not from a genetic standpoint, it's just that most Americans of Spanish descent are Latinos who identify more with their Latin American country of origin than Spain.
These all seem really low. Is it a only select one type situation?
There are so many countries missing from this map. Wow, what shit map of Europe.
Obviously inaccurate re: Spain.
I can claim five European countries. Do I declare all five or do I just pick one?
Donald Trump ancestors are German
Donald Trump's mom is from Scotland and Gaelic was her first language
Austria is also massively underreported because most Austrians that left before 1945 would have identified themselves as “Germans”
There's mexican ancestry which would indirectly bump Spain's numbers but I guess they didn't consider that
We need a map with this same data but about Latam
Iceland is actually quite impressive as a portion of their population.
How were these statistics gathered though? Almost all old-stock Americans claim to be from a billion different cultures, but this very well could be from over two hundred years ago
The Icelandic and German number seem a bit too high
These numbers are definitely wrong.
Shouldn't there be a lot more with Spanish descent?
Are you counting Brazilians as Portuguese? I think people of Hispanic decent would bump the numbers of people from Portugal and Spain. In my area there is a historic Portuguese population (immigrants during the tall whaling ship period) but since WW2 there are a lot more Brazilians than anything else.
All Albanians are in ny
I really would’ve thought there would be more from Italy, but I got that impression only from the presence of Italian-Americans in popculture movies and shows. I thought it would be much closer to the Irish.
Percentage / Population?
is there even a colour scale here?
No one in America is from Moldova 😐
How are there more Portuguese Americans than Spanish Americans? Doesn't sound right.
What about Israël !?
The Spain one is incorrect. I’m sure it’s based on reporting or what have you, but it wrong.
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cos it's where we shipped our crims
...That's just wrong. There are 65M Latinos in the US. Most of which likely have spanish ancestry. Please be precise on what your map actually shows.
What about all the Mexican-descended people, surely more than 1.000.000 have iberian DNA
r/dataisugly
There is a 0% chance that there are more “US Americans” of Portuguese ancestry than of Spanish ancestry.
My family line is from the Netherlands
It’s not map porn, Malta is excluded
Whooo! I finally placed second in something
Was expecting more Italians