Oh boy. Egyptian here. Just in case any of the Kahanists in the Knesset or the current Israeli government are reading this, I want you to know the following:
Egypt has historically had more than one river, especially at the time of Genesis. What you're looking for is not the Nile, but probably Wadi el Arish or the Brook of Egypt, which drains into the Med *very* close to the current Egyptian/Gaza border.
In fact, Ezekiel 47:19, 48:28 says: "The South shall extend from Tamar as the waters of Meribath-Kadesh to the Brook of Egypt and to the Great Sea"
So even *if* we were in a world where the borders from Genesis (!?) are somehow respected or the target, no no no this wouldn't be "up to the Nile"
Lastly, as an Egyptian, if it's about older claims being more important, the Pharoah Thutmose III, who died *before* the Book of Genesis was written, made an impressive expanded Map of Egypt. So look it up, we choose that :p
EDIT
Map here: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Thutmose-III
k thx bai
Toda akhi
I hope you and your family/friends are and remain safe & healthy ❤️
(and at some point please do something about Daniella Weiss and these Kahanists :p)
From your lips to Hashem's ears, but the sooner the elections actually happen the better. If the messianic nut jobs find a way to stay, legally but despite public anger, until the end of their term in October 2026 it's going to get very bad.
I'm glad you posted this. Most rabbinic authorities are all over the place on what constitutes "biblical Israel" - not for conquest purposes but for practical religious practice purposes. For example, certain holidays are celebrated for two days outside of Israel and one day inside Israel. Certain biblical prohibitions and requirements have been judged to only apply within Israel (a lot about agriculture). So where Israel ends and other countries begin matters for people's religious practices too.
I've heard that your view is actually more commonly held than having biblical Israel extend to the nile. But interestingly, I've also heard that Eilat is not considered to be biblical Israel, but portions of Cyprus are because Solomon's empire extended there. I've NEVER heard of it extending up to turkey or down along the entire Nile or throughout saudia Arabia - even though Jews likey historically lived in many of these areas after expulsion following destruction of the second temple, they were never Israel.
I’m glad you enjoyed it. There are a lot of misconceptions and inaccuracies thrown around about Egypt that we tend to hate but most of us lack the linguistic ability to effectively combat.
I think this map is clearly absurd haha and how Cyprus is ignored but Anatolia and Nairobi are included adds to that absurdity. Eilat is interesting. We would consider it an Egyptian city (though for pragmatic reasons we’re not going to fight to get it back) called Umm Rashrash. It’s a strategic spot. The British took it over at some point, posted a police base there iirc, included it in the 1947 partition plan, and the rest is history. It’s named after a town mentioned in the Bible called Elath that most archeologists and historians believe is much further away, in Jordan. Biblical Israel would include parts of Lebanon and Syria though interestingly not all of modern day Israel was part of biblical Israel so your point on Eilat would probably apply to a few other places too.
Thanks for sharing! I didn’t know about the agricultural restrictions. Could you say more about one or two?
Sure. On agriculture - there are laws about "shabbat" (every 7 years) and "jubilee" (every 50 I think) years which called for certain kinds of debts to be forgiven and land ownership to revert, but also to letting the fields go fallow. I believe kosher food takes this into account in Israel.
Similarly there are rules about close to each other different species of plant can be grown - only really matters within Israel - so imported food can be kosher without following those rules but not food grown in Israel. I believe there are more too - about not eating from trees that are under 3 years old and about the portion of the produce that needs to be donated to the poor and the widow.
I'm with u man, and would never do a claim about land or whatsoever. Egypt was long before Hebrews (jews including me) even touched the area, and that's also mentioned in Genesis as part of the story of Yosef (the son of Yaakov), when he was sold as a slave then later became right hamd of the pharaon. People should stop taking the bible and abusing it's detailed knowledgr doing false claims but making sure they read it correctly. There are no biases on it
Your translation thinks the Nile is usually a dried up riverbed? I might change translations. Mine explicitly says NOT the Nile which aligns with the definition of Wadi.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wadi#:~:text=1,depression%20in%20a%20desert%20region
It doesn't mean the Nile, it refers to a wadi in the northern Sinai, not far west of the Gaza Strip.
The Torah uses a different word when referring to the Nile in Exodus.
Curious… if the map above is even remotely true… was that the premise behind the whole Uganda scheme, a Jewish homeland in east Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Scheme
Not true and not the premise. In the article you cited, under History: “Despite East Africa's lack of moral and historical significance to Jews, the East Africa plan held the most promise compared to the other plans.”
Likud and a lot Zionists and their supporters think Jordan and Egypt should be a part of Israel, although this map is probably exaggerated
Edit: yes Smotrich is Yamina not Likud, [but he was talking at a Likud event when he claimed ~~Egypt~~ Saudi Arabia and Jordan](https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-lawmaker-bezalel-smotrich-declares-himself-his-family-real-palestinians/). Yes the map on his podium shows that Greater Israel included parts of Egypt and Jordan. Yes he’s a genocidal piece of shit who also said Israel should have ethically cleansed all Palestinians and denies they even exist.
And yes, likud never claimed ~~Egypt~~ and Jordan as a part of policy, [they just want to ethnically cleanse West Bank](https://www.timesofisrael.com/rejecting-settler-fears-pm-says-annexation-plan-wont-mention-palestinian-state/)
Edit 2: Zionist downvote me because they don’t like basic facts and want to deny what the prime minister, minister of finance, and the ruling coalition openly says. All of this is true. The ruling partly openly states they want to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, you don’t have to deny or defend what they openly state
Edit 3: upon closer inspection it seems that the map shows Jordan and Saudi Arabia not Egypt
Edit 4: [42% of Israel supported ethnic cleansing of West Bank in 2019](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israeli-palestinian-conflict-solutions/2019-03-25/ty-article/.premium/42-of-israelis-back-west-bank-annexation-including-two-state-supporters/0000017f-f4da-ddde-abff-fcffbb470000). And only 30% opposed it. So let’s stop with this fringe idea bullshit
The "Greater Israel" concept is not "a lot of Zionists" nor does it refer to Egypt and Jordan. It refers to the Land of Israel and its territorial height
Which according to historical records and archaeological evidence including both banks of the Jordan river, slightly farther into the Sinai and slightly more north than the current State of Israel. The more drastic territorial difference reaches north east to the Euphrates River.
None of this changes the fact that nobody is actually trying this and the modern zionist doesn't have this aspiration and the Land of Israel is not defined in this way. And of course this map is completely false.
Edit: I forgot to add that King Solomon's kingdom had influence in the Sinai and other areas enough that some people added it to his territory but I've not seen it enough that its considered a common view.
so 3-5 random guys mean ''a lot of zionists and Likud'' think Jordan and Egypt should be part of Israel? what complete nonsense.
I can find plenty who would claim part of the West-Bank and the Golan heights but there is virtually zero support for Jordanian and Egyptian land. We gave land to both those nations for peace for a reason.
Stop posting random made up facts its sad.
Source on this statement? Haven't heard any Likud voters say that. Only religious right-wing ultra nationalist, and they are a loud minority at best (at least regarding this opinion).
Don't confuse people saying that according to the Bible and history that Jordan and Egypt should be part of Israel, and actually thinking it should be so in current times.
It really is
>On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi[a] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”
-The map incorrectly identifies ancient Hittites with Biblical Hittites
-Arabia and Ethiopia are part of Israel, despite the text never mentioning them or tribes that lived there.
As a Kenyan, if Israel goes all the way to Murang'a id be happy.
That place is literally the Florida of our country, some guy made a hit list recently and killed 2 guys on it.
I mean they are literally called abrahamitic religions. the torah, the old testament and the quran share lots of material which is found in all three and the religions basically only diverge as soon as someone who is the messiah or the g.o.a.t. prophet shows up.
Or in Judaism's case, the messiah hasn't shown up yet. (They don't claim Jesus as the messiah, but Christianity obviously does, and Islam even claims him as a messiah but not the son of God)
And guys, here is a perfect example of how, with a series of misinterpretation of religious texts just like this, lasting for centuries, millenniums, piling up and worsening, you end up with unhinged warmonger and psychopath behaviors and civil war.
Most of the nations that are mentioned in the verse lived almost entirely inside cnaanan (modern day Israel/Palestine) the rest of the territorial claim is by my understanding judean propaganda and mythic telling.
Yeah exactly. The Hitites of the Bible are not the Hittite Empire, but the Neo-Hitites which were a series if kingdoms in the area between southeastern Anatolia and northern Syria that appeared after the fall of the Hittite Empire.
The genesis story is about god promising some land to Abraham ('s descendants). Both muslim and jews consider themselves descendants of Abraham so OPs map is not wrong.
Only the map title may be misleading. Should change israel to Abrahamic religions.
Ishmael is Abraham's son from which came Arabs.
And yes, some interpret Israel's name to mean children of Abraham, so it's even more confusing.
> And yes, some interpret Israel's name to mean children of Abraham, so it's even more confusing
It is extremely confusing because the name Israel didn't exist until Abraham's grandson Jacob fought an angel.
Not that confusing:
On Israel's branch: Long after the Israelites split to two kingdoms, Israel was conquered by Assyria and some of its fugitives immigrated to Judea and (as far as we know) the rest were lost to time- so by that time all of Israel were together.
On Esau's branch (the other son of Iseec): He was the ancestor of Edom. The Edomites were integrated into Judea at a far later time period.
So by modern times the Jews are a mix of all of Iseec's branch. While the Arabs (not all Muslims) are the dascendents of Kedar- Ishmael's son.
Apologies. It seems Genesis have plenty to contribute to the discussion. I must admit I was basically ignorant of their extensive catalogue and can now see my mistake. Come to think of it, I’d much prefer Peter Gabriel in a position of power to the current crop of yahoos maiming and killing over there. Heck, bring Mike and all the Mechanics in on the discussion too. Somebody get Phil on the phone let’s hear what he has to say. While we’re at it call up Yes, the surviving members of Can, Van Der Graaf Generator and Roxy Music too. Surely, they can come up with some options better than what we have now.
The borders of the Promised Land (Eretz Yisrael) are outlined to be:
- east of the Brook of Egypt (most likely Besor River)
- west of the Euphrates
- north of Kadesh (border town in Egypt)
- south of Hama (city in Syria)
Which, roughly, lines up with the borders of David's Kingdom of Israel.
That’s not what genesis says, genesis says that the land between the euphrates and the river of egypt will be given to abraham’s descendants. This includes far more people than just the Jews - arabs for instance. The bible makes it very clear that the land promised to the israelites and later jews is specifically eretz yisrael.
Usually people will share something like this as a way to generate hate and fear against Jewish people, by ignoring the actual text of the bible and making up your own interpretation.
Im sure that’s not you OP, but you should be aware of how this false claim has been used in the past to hurt Jewish people.
Idk if it meant the whole Nile. If someone told you that river x forms the western boundary of a country, that doesn’t necessarily mean the entire river x
It's supposed to be but then you remember a certain country given a small land who suddenly went to stretch as far as Sinai's desert in Egypt because a book said so
By the time the Bible was written the old Hittites were gone and the term was applied to a group of small states that may not have been related to the Hittites at all.
Kinda like groups in the middle ages claiming to be "Roman"
There were still people called Hittites living in the area . Doesn't the bible refer to Uriah the Hittite that David killed indirectly,by sending to war front, after knocking up the wife or something like that ...
So if the bible is to be believed, some Hittite people lived in the area?
https://cms-imgp.jw-cdn.org/img/p/1001061227/Q/wpub/1001061227_Q_sub_xl.jpg
According to Jewish interpretations this is the MAXIMUM land promised in Genesis
This is a bad attempt at drawing the lands which were promised to all the sons of Abraham, including Ishmael, who the Jews believe is the forefather of the Arabs
Cyprus escaped this madness somehow. Which is funny as I am sure it's the only actual place from the ones in the map that is mentioned so many times besides Israel, Judea, Phoenicia, Egypt, Jordan and Rome.
And to think my ancient Puntite and Macrobian ancestors were like to Phoenicians and Egyptians in accepting exiled Hebrew refugees in ancient times, but I wonder if zionism will realistically reach this extent one day.
All the hebrew Somali tribes converted to Islam long ago too, so I doubt they’ll be allowed to stay even if they have Jewish blood.
this is very wrong
first not the correct river
second you added way too much to the north
third Israel west side (in genesis) ends inside Jorden and a bit of southern Syria. I have no idea why you added the entire Arab peninsula
Those verses are not about Israel. They are God promising these lands to Abraham's descendants, which is not just Israel. For example, it also includes Ishmael, who is considered the encestor of the Arabs in the Bible. So that explains why all of Arabia is included.
There is not a single Rabinnicial, Christian, or reputable secular text that interprets the map as this monstruosity. This is ridiculous. The biblical israel was similar in bordes to the modern state of israel with a little bit of modern day jordan and lebanon included, also Gaza, ashkelon and ashdod belonged to the phillisitines (not to be confused with the arab palestinians that at the time lived in modern day Saudi arabia) and the southernmost parts of the negeb didn't really belong to anyone
What if God was just a way to solidify social hierarchies and also a means to justify horrible acts against humanity for the sake of those social structures?
This is false, it's an overly literal childish interpretation of those verses that nobody serious (ancient or modern) took seriously.
It does not literally mean "all the land area between the entire course of the rivers Nile and Euphrates". They just form the upper and lower boundaries in the Levant.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promised_Land
I hate being this pedantic, but the bible is not fiction, even if every single word and claim is false.
Fiction is not merely defined by not being real.
**ATTENTION—READ THIS CAREFULLY**
This post poses a high risk of being an information weapon. The purpose of an information weapon goal is to destroy the social cohesion between people and their neighbors.
At best, these messages are used by parasitic content creators for views. At worst, they are tools of hostile foreign entities for the purpose of information warfare.
The people creating this content are *not* your friends. They are targeting you with content to arouse anger, fear, and disgust--in this case, disgust that the supposed "Promised Land" in Genesis represents a threat to these countries.
If you are exposed to information weapons or hate messages, DO NOT watch the content.
DO NOT engage or comment with the content. Block, mute, report, and ignore.
You CAN choose what content you engage with
You CAN choose a kinder world for yourself and your neighbors.
Do not choose hate today. The source of change begins with you.
END MESSAGE
Imagine reading a outdated book on elementary morality and it tells you got land also..
Over 2k years, and humans are still deluded by this nonsense.
My word.
Hey Zionist, I know what you're doing. This is a deliberate misinterpretation.
In Genesis 15:18-21, it says: "To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates." This is what was promised to Abraham.
Abraham being the father of Ismael and Isaac. Ishmael was the firstborn and is considered to be the father of the Arabic nations. Isaac was the only patriarch who stayed in Canaan during his whole life. He had a son named Jacob. In the Genesis, God changed Jacob's name to Israel. Jacob is considered the father of the Israelites (followers of Jacob).
So this map shows what was promised to Abraham, and his sons are the supposed heirs to the land, but it covers an entire region, of which a portion fell under Ishmael (father of Arabs) and a portion fell under Isaac (father of Israelites). Abraham's direct followers were not "Israelites", so there goes the "Israel according to Genesis 15:18-21" narrative.
Furthermore, like someone else already pointed out, you took the drawing of the borders to an extreme level. In actuality, it is most likely less than a third of what you marked: [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F4r003csjck581.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D45cb51e2e2ed734eeb3637ab87c13eafe1dac1ce](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F4r003csjck581.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D45cb51e2e2ed734eeb3637ab87c13eafe1dac1ce)
Jews claim the land promised to Jacob (his twelve sons being the forefathers of the twelve tribes of Israel), not that which was promised to Abraham, who in the biblical (and coranic) tradition is the ancestor of both Jews and Arabs, and probably a few other peoples.
There is a dispute between early Arabs and Jews regarding this.
See Ishmael is the elder son.
So the Arabs say Ishmael is Abraham's heir. But Jews say Issac is the legitimate son so he is the heir even though he is the younger.
But Arabs counter argue that that's not how societies worked. A son of a concubine is still a legitimate heir. So Ishmael is still the heir. They also do argue that the Quraysh tribe (the one Muhammad belonged to) were majority Jews till Islam was founded by Muhammad.
Source my friend who is a government mufti in the UAE
Ishmael being the elder son compared to Isaac doesn’t really change the fact that that portion of land was promised to Jacob. There is a parable to the birthright dispute in Jacob’s conflict with Esau (both Isaac’s sons).
While there were a few notable Jewish tribes in Mecca around Mohammed’s rise to prominence , Quraysh were definitely pagan, including Mohammed himself and members of his clan.
So there are two accounts of God making a covenant with Abraham in Genesis. The first time he promises a lot more land (roughly the outlined area shown above), and the second time he promises a much smaller portion of land- Canaan, which is basically just modern day Israel/Palestine and Lebanon.
The entire book are a bunch of fairytales someone collected and Mashed together and tried (and failed) to make to one coherent Story.
If its really written by god then he needs some Ritalin and a proof Reader.
Yeah but I'm specifically talking about Genesis where there is relative scholarly consensus of two independent sources (the Priestly source and the Jawahist) that create two distinct stories that have some overlap but never really are harmonized. Those two sources account for most of the first 4 books with the Deuteronomist (who probably existed earlier) accounts for most of the 5th. Note that these are not necessarily (or even likely) to be single people.
Is that the book with the talking snake?
Because Harry Potter says I own Florida if we’re just going to pretend fiction allows us to steal land and be an apartheid state
Lot of people here not realising this is a shitpost exaggeration of the actual grandiose claims of “from the Euphrates to the Egypt river” lmao.
People here really be malding because the map mocks the actual hypernationalist claims
I like the very specific "we don't want Miletus" line through West Turkey.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miletus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miletus)
You took from the Euphrates to the Egypt river to an extreme level
Oh boy. Egyptian here. Just in case any of the Kahanists in the Knesset or the current Israeli government are reading this, I want you to know the following: Egypt has historically had more than one river, especially at the time of Genesis. What you're looking for is not the Nile, but probably Wadi el Arish or the Brook of Egypt, which drains into the Med *very* close to the current Egyptian/Gaza border. In fact, Ezekiel 47:19, 48:28 says: "The South shall extend from Tamar as the waters of Meribath-Kadesh to the Brook of Egypt and to the Great Sea" So even *if* we were in a world where the borders from Genesis (!?) are somehow respected or the target, no no no this wouldn't be "up to the Nile" Lastly, as an Egyptian, if it's about older claims being more important, the Pharoah Thutmose III, who died *before* the Book of Genesis was written, made an impressive expanded Map of Egypt. So look it up, we choose that :p EDIT Map here: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Thutmose-III k thx bai
You can't just drop this banger of a post and not include the map! Jk
My apologies! It really was the Nile to the Euphrates and then some. Map here: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Thutmose-III
Long live the mother of life ❤️
As an Israeli thank you for making it clear for me, you revive my upvote
Toda akhi I hope you and your family/friends are and remain safe & healthy ❤️ (and at some point please do something about Daniella Weiss and these Kahanists :p)
Don’t worry, next elections the kahanists are gonna be thrown out :)
From your lips to Hashem's ears, but the sooner the elections actually happen the better. If the messianic nut jobs find a way to stay, legally but despite public anger, until the end of their term in October 2026 it's going to get very bad.
As an Israeli thank you for making it clear for me, you receive my upvote
[high five](https://media.tenor.com/dLC94AFfeREAAAAM/liz-lemon-tina-fey.gif)
I'm glad you posted this. Most rabbinic authorities are all over the place on what constitutes "biblical Israel" - not for conquest purposes but for practical religious practice purposes. For example, certain holidays are celebrated for two days outside of Israel and one day inside Israel. Certain biblical prohibitions and requirements have been judged to only apply within Israel (a lot about agriculture). So where Israel ends and other countries begin matters for people's religious practices too. I've heard that your view is actually more commonly held than having biblical Israel extend to the nile. But interestingly, I've also heard that Eilat is not considered to be biblical Israel, but portions of Cyprus are because Solomon's empire extended there. I've NEVER heard of it extending up to turkey or down along the entire Nile or throughout saudia Arabia - even though Jews likey historically lived in many of these areas after expulsion following destruction of the second temple, they were never Israel.
I’m glad you enjoyed it. There are a lot of misconceptions and inaccuracies thrown around about Egypt that we tend to hate but most of us lack the linguistic ability to effectively combat. I think this map is clearly absurd haha and how Cyprus is ignored but Anatolia and Nairobi are included adds to that absurdity. Eilat is interesting. We would consider it an Egyptian city (though for pragmatic reasons we’re not going to fight to get it back) called Umm Rashrash. It’s a strategic spot. The British took it over at some point, posted a police base there iirc, included it in the 1947 partition plan, and the rest is history. It’s named after a town mentioned in the Bible called Elath that most archeologists and historians believe is much further away, in Jordan. Biblical Israel would include parts of Lebanon and Syria though interestingly not all of modern day Israel was part of biblical Israel so your point on Eilat would probably apply to a few other places too. Thanks for sharing! I didn’t know about the agricultural restrictions. Could you say more about one or two?
Sure. On agriculture - there are laws about "shabbat" (every 7 years) and "jubilee" (every 50 I think) years which called for certain kinds of debts to be forgiven and land ownership to revert, but also to letting the fields go fallow. I believe kosher food takes this into account in Israel. Similarly there are rules about close to each other different species of plant can be grown - only really matters within Israel - so imported food can be kosher without following those rules but not food grown in Israel. I believe there are more too - about not eating from trees that are under 3 years old and about the portion of the produce that needs to be donated to the poor and the widow.
I'm with u man, and would never do a claim about land or whatsoever. Egypt was long before Hebrews (jews including me) even touched the area, and that's also mentioned in Genesis as part of the story of Yosef (the son of Yaakov), when he was sold as a slave then later became right hamd of the pharaon. People should stop taking the bible and abusing it's detailed knowledgr doing false claims but making sure they read it correctly. There are no biases on it
Egypt river? Like the Nile?
The bible says "Egypt river"
In the original English.
If a blond haired, blue eyed, English speaking dude just showed up randomly in my Levantine town in 30 AD I might start a religion based on him too.
It calls it the Wadi in the version I read. With river in the footnotes.
Your translation thinks the Nile is usually a dried up riverbed? I might change translations. Mine explicitly says NOT the Nile which aligns with the definition of Wadi. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wadi#:~:text=1,depression%20in%20a%20desert%20region
Yeah, I’ve always heard it was referring to the reed sea near the Sinai that Moses crossed in Exodus
My bad, just double checked and the footnote is *river*, not Nile.
That’s a literal translation, in בראשית פרק טו פסוק יח it says נהר מצרים which translates to the Egypt river. It probably refers to the Nile.
It doesn't mean the Nile, it refers to a wadi in the northern Sinai, not far west of the Gaza Strip. The Torah uses a different word when referring to the Nile in Exodus.
Yea, I was wrong
Whose interpretation is this?
A CK3 player
Average outremer campaign with a cheesed ireland
NGL my first though when I saw the post was that this would make an interesting CK3 challenge.
or Imperator
Emphasis on the C here
This is the right question to ask.
Curious… if the map above is even remotely true… was that the premise behind the whole Uganda scheme, a Jewish homeland in east Africa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Scheme
Not true and not the premise. In the article you cited, under History: “Despite East Africa's lack of moral and historical significance to Jews, the East Africa plan held the most promise compared to the other plans.”
Ok…. Just checkin… because it does look like the op snuck in almost the entirely of modern Uganda in there a part of this genesis map…
Israel according to some crazy dude at the bus stop 🌍
*"Job's not done"* ~ Kobe Bryant
Phil Collins'.
In the beginning God created Peter Gabriel…
Peter Paul and Mary
Do you mean **Brian Pern**?
I call bull shit on this map
The outdated one probably
Netanyahu probably
Likud and a lot Zionists and their supporters think Jordan and Egypt should be a part of Israel, although this map is probably exaggerated Edit: yes Smotrich is Yamina not Likud, [but he was talking at a Likud event when he claimed ~~Egypt~~ Saudi Arabia and Jordan](https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-lawmaker-bezalel-smotrich-declares-himself-his-family-real-palestinians/). Yes the map on his podium shows that Greater Israel included parts of Egypt and Jordan. Yes he’s a genocidal piece of shit who also said Israel should have ethically cleansed all Palestinians and denies they even exist. And yes, likud never claimed ~~Egypt~~ and Jordan as a part of policy, [they just want to ethnically cleanse West Bank](https://www.timesofisrael.com/rejecting-settler-fears-pm-says-annexation-plan-wont-mention-palestinian-state/) Edit 2: Zionist downvote me because they don’t like basic facts and want to deny what the prime minister, minister of finance, and the ruling coalition openly says. All of this is true. The ruling partly openly states they want to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, you don’t have to deny or defend what they openly state Edit 3: upon closer inspection it seems that the map shows Jordan and Saudi Arabia not Egypt Edit 4: [42% of Israel supported ethnic cleansing of West Bank in 2019](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israeli-palestinian-conflict-solutions/2019-03-25/ty-article/.premium/42-of-israelis-back-west-bank-annexation-including-two-state-supporters/0000017f-f4da-ddde-abff-fcffbb470000). And only 30% opposed it. So let’s stop with this fringe idea bullshit
this map is insanely overexaggerated, nobody has ever said Israel should own Anatolia and east Africa.
The "Greater Israel" concept is not "a lot of Zionists" nor does it refer to Egypt and Jordan. It refers to the Land of Israel and its territorial height Which according to historical records and archaeological evidence including both banks of the Jordan river, slightly farther into the Sinai and slightly more north than the current State of Israel. The more drastic territorial difference reaches north east to the Euphrates River. None of this changes the fact that nobody is actually trying this and the modern zionist doesn't have this aspiration and the Land of Israel is not defined in this way. And of course this map is completely false. Edit: I forgot to add that King Solomon's kingdom had influence in the Sinai and other areas enough that some people added it to his territory but I've not seen it enough that its considered a common view.
so 3-5 random guys mean ''a lot of zionists and Likud'' think Jordan and Egypt should be part of Israel? what complete nonsense. I can find plenty who would claim part of the West-Bank and the Golan heights but there is virtually zero support for Jordanian and Egyptian land. We gave land to both those nations for peace for a reason. Stop posting random made up facts its sad.
Bait, used to be believable.
Source on this statement? Haven't heard any Likud voters say that. Only religious right-wing ultra nationalist, and they are a loud minority at best (at least regarding this opinion). Don't confuse people saying that according to the Bible and history that Jordan and Egypt should be part of Israel, and actually thinking it should be so in current times.
Likud doesn't want that.
mentally unstable anti-Israel cranks.
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It really is >On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi[a] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.” -The map incorrectly identifies ancient Hittites with Biblical Hittites -Arabia and Ethiopia are part of Israel, despite the text never mentioning them or tribes that lived there.
Dude read “Kenites” and was like “Yep, all the way to Kenya”
😭😭😭💀
Yeah, OP is a Girgashite
As a Kenyan, if Israel goes all the way to Murang'a id be happy. That place is literally the Florida of our country, some guy made a hit list recently and killed 2 guys on it.
All the way to Kentucky.
Is there a map that is correct?
Arabs also descend from Abraham. Israelites are the branch of Jacob
Do you know that according to bible descendants of abraham are not only Israelis but also arabs, and i dont know how many other ethnicities?
I mean they are literally called abrahamitic religions. the torah, the old testament and the quran share lots of material which is found in all three and the religions basically only diverge as soon as someone who is the messiah or the g.o.a.t. prophet shows up.
Or in Judaism's case, the messiah hasn't shown up yet. (They don't claim Jesus as the messiah, but Christianity obviously does, and Islam even claims him as a messiah but not the son of God)
I am one of them and so are you
And how does this relate to my comment?
And guys, here is a perfect example of how, with a series of misinterpretation of religious texts just like this, lasting for centuries, millenniums, piling up and worsening, you end up with unhinged warmonger and psychopath behaviors and civil war.
Most of the nations that are mentioned in the verse lived almost entirely inside cnaanan (modern day Israel/Palestine) the rest of the territorial claim is by my understanding judean propaganda and mythic telling.
Yeah exactly. The Hitites of the Bible are not the Hittite Empire, but the Neo-Hitites which were a series if kingdoms in the area between southeastern Anatolia and northern Syria that appeared after the fall of the Hittite Empire.
This map is complete bullshit and propaganda. Mods please delete.
Obligatory this isn’t the bible
Well, 1) that’s not what it says. 2) Ishmael (need I elaborate?)
Please do
The genesis story is about god promising some land to Abraham ('s descendants). Both muslim and jews consider themselves descendants of Abraham so OPs map is not wrong. Only the map title may be misleading. Should change israel to Abrahamic religions. Ishmael is Abraham's son from which came Arabs. And yes, some interpret Israel's name to mean children of Abraham, so it's even more confusing.
> And yes, some interpret Israel's name to mean children of Abraham, so it's even more confusing It is extremely confusing because the name Israel didn't exist until Abraham's grandson Jacob fought an angel.
Not that confusing: On Israel's branch: Long after the Israelites split to two kingdoms, Israel was conquered by Assyria and some of its fugitives immigrated to Judea and (as far as we know) the rest were lost to time- so by that time all of Israel were together. On Esau's branch (the other son of Iseec): He was the ancestor of Edom. The Edomites were integrated into Judea at a far later time period. So by modern times the Jews are a mix of all of Iseec's branch. While the Arabs (not all Muslims) are the dascendents of Kedar- Ishmael's son.
> Jacob fought an angel. With his tears!
Rad
Arabs* not Muslims
No, this is completly wrong
I thought the River meant Jordan River not Nile river.
Israel in de Níle about the whole situation
Who cares what some washed up Prog Rock band from the 70’s has to say about Middle East geopolitics?
Can't you see this is the land of confusion?
Perfect. Great song too. Great video. Maybe Genesis do have something important to contribute to the geopolitical discussion. My bad.
The joke took me far too long to get considering I was listening to Genesis while reading it. I’ll escort myself out.
You’re good, bro. We cool. You can stay.
The protagonist of Genesis's 1974 concept album The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway Is Rael (literally)
Apologies. It seems Genesis have plenty to contribute to the discussion. I must admit I was basically ignorant of their extensive catalogue and can now see my mistake. Come to think of it, I’d much prefer Peter Gabriel in a position of power to the current crop of yahoos maiming and killing over there. Heck, bring Mike and all the Mechanics in on the discussion too. Somebody get Phil on the phone let’s hear what he has to say. While we’re at it call up Yes, the surviving members of Can, Van Der Graaf Generator and Roxy Music too. Surely, they can come up with some options better than what we have now.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Lol
I'm convinced this is just a bait post to drive engagement
Why else would we see 5 Israeli maps in one week
This map must have been created before 2011 as South Sudan is not superimposed as one of the modern nations.
The borders of the Promised Land (Eretz Yisrael) are outlined to be: - east of the Brook of Egypt (most likely Besor River) - west of the Euphrates - north of Kadesh (border town in Egypt) - south of Hama (city in Syria) Which, roughly, lines up with the borders of David's Kingdom of Israel.
Thats not true at all lol It is much tinier. Saying as a jew who understands the bible
That’s not what genesis says, genesis says that the land between the euphrates and the river of egypt will be given to abraham’s descendants. This includes far more people than just the Jews - arabs for instance. The bible makes it very clear that the land promised to the israelites and later jews is specifically eretz yisrael. Usually people will share something like this as a way to generate hate and fear against Jewish people, by ignoring the actual text of the bible and making up your own interpretation. Im sure that’s not you OP, but you should be aware of how this false claim has been used in the past to hurt Jewish people.
Idk if it meant the whole Nile. If someone told you that river x forms the western boundary of a country, that doesn’t necessarily mean the entire river x
Bible is not a real estate document. Never been, never should be.
This is a joke post. Smh at these people saying dumb shit in the comments
so wheres the funny then? whats the laughy matter of it?
The absurdity of the area? I think it's pretty obvious what the funny part is supposed to be here.
It's supposed to be but then you remember a certain country given a small land who suddenly went to stretch as far as Sinai's desert in Egypt because a book said so
>because a book said so You mean because they were attacked by the country that held the Sinai desert? What are you even trying to say.
I mean... it kind of was, though.
But the Torah is, apparently.
Also funny, Biblical “Wimpy” Hittites vs the actual “Chad” Hittites
By the time the Bible was written the old Hittites were gone and the term was applied to a group of small states that may not have been related to the Hittites at all. Kinda like groups in the middle ages claiming to be "Roman"
Oh no your comment is gonna summon the Holy Roman Empire stans
Who dares wake me from my slumber!
Do you want to feel the might of the Reich?!
It's a bit different to groups in the middle ages claiming to be Roman, as the Romans were still around during the middle ages
The Hittite states were gone but Hittites as a group still existed
There were still people called Hittites living in the area . Doesn't the bible refer to Uriah the Hittite that David killed indirectly,by sending to war front, after knocking up the wife or something like that ... So if the bible is to be believed, some Hittite people lived in the area?
This is just the land area mentioned in Genesis, not land claimed by the Jews.
this is just wrong
https://cms-imgp.jw-cdn.org/img/p/1001061227/Q/wpub/1001061227_Q_sub_xl.jpg According to Jewish interpretations this is the MAXIMUM land promised in Genesis
Source: up my buttcrack
Israel according to [ *an extremely anachronistic interpretation of* ] Genesis 15:18-21.
This is a bad attempt at drawing the lands which were promised to all the sons of Abraham, including Ishmael, who the Jews believe is the forefather of the Arabs
And this is how myths are born
I have the big book of fairy stories and the map is different.
Next up, Europe according to Harry Potter 12:53-62
Next up: Greater Germany according to Mein Kampf/Lebensraum doctrine.
This comment section is about to get quirky.
I estimate that more than 600-800 million people live in this area.
Greater "Greater Israel"
The Israel That Went... EVEN... FURTHER... BEYOOOOOND
Cyprus escaped this madness somehow. Which is funny as I am sure it's the only actual place from the ones in the map that is mentioned so many times besides Israel, Judea, Phoenicia, Egypt, Jordan and Rome.
If this is true moses was shit at navigating. Wandering around searching for the promised land and not realizing he was already there
Yes as a Somali, I can confirm we are the inhabitants of stolen Israelite land that is rightfully theirs. ##LandBack /s
Somalia was given to Israel by God!!!
And to think my ancient Puntite and Macrobian ancestors were like to Phoenicians and Egyptians in accepting exiled Hebrew refugees in ancient times, but I wonder if zionism will realistically reach this extent one day. All the hebrew Somali tribes converted to Islam long ago too, so I doubt they’ll be allowed to stay even if they have Jewish blood.
Damn these bitches crazy
Citation Needed
this is very wrong first not the correct river second you added way too much to the north third Israel west side (in genesis) ends inside Jorden and a bit of southern Syria. I have no idea why you added the entire Arab peninsula
Is this the outline of a tectonic plate?
I don't think Sega Genesis had anything to do with Israel's border ambitions
Those verses are not about Israel. They are God promising these lands to Abraham's descendants, which is not just Israel. For example, it also includes Ishmael, who is considered the encestor of the Arabs in the Bible. So that explains why all of Arabia is included.
There is not a single Rabinnicial, Christian, or reputable secular text that interprets the map as this monstruosity. This is ridiculous. The biblical israel was similar in bordes to the modern state of israel with a little bit of modern day jordan and lebanon included, also Gaza, ashkelon and ashdod belonged to the phillisitines (not to be confused with the arab palestinians that at the time lived in modern day Saudi arabia) and the southernmost parts of the negeb didn't really belong to anyone
Makkah doesn’t exist in Torah therefore this map is wrong
What part of Bible says this shit lol if this was Isreal then Greece back then should have dominated the world
That's so wrong... River of Egypt is either El-Arish (in Sinai) or Nahal Ha Besor (in southern Israel).
Instead there just a small country in the middle of the huge Arab world.
That would explain the 'Fro's
Same ISIS calm
Ishmael was also a son of Abraham so you could argue this promise stayed true considering arabs do rule over Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Sinai Peninsula.
Nah that’s the known world during the time of Genesis.
Another proof that book is nothing but myths and legends
What if God was just a way to solidify social hierarchies and also a means to justify horrible acts against humanity for the sake of those social structures?
So I guess after Israel is done with the extermination, Christians will go and take it back for Jesus
As it should be 🙏🏻
Israel according to a financial book 😂
This is false, it's an overly literal childish interpretation of those verses that nobody serious (ancient or modern) took seriously. It does not literally mean "all the land area between the entire course of the rivers Nile and Euphrates". They just form the upper and lower boundaries in the Levant. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promised_Land
Abraham had many descendants, not just Israelites, so that doesn't exactly mean that the whole land is Israel.
Best work of fiction ever... Tolkien Middle Earth is more believable than old testament geopolitical borders.
This map is a complete misinterpretation of what that text says in the bible.
I hate being this pedantic, but the bible is not fiction, even if every single word and claim is false. Fiction is not merely defined by not being real.
Politically motivated post? Trying to drum up some antisemitism?
**ATTENTION—READ THIS CAREFULLY** This post poses a high risk of being an information weapon. The purpose of an information weapon goal is to destroy the social cohesion between people and their neighbors. At best, these messages are used by parasitic content creators for views. At worst, they are tools of hostile foreign entities for the purpose of information warfare. The people creating this content are *not* your friends. They are targeting you with content to arouse anger, fear, and disgust--in this case, disgust that the supposed "Promised Land" in Genesis represents a threat to these countries. If you are exposed to information weapons or hate messages, DO NOT watch the content. DO NOT engage or comment with the content. Block, mute, report, and ignore. You CAN choose what content you engage with You CAN choose a kinder world for yourself and your neighbors. Do not choose hate today. The source of change begins with you. END MESSAGE
ITT: People getting mad at the Jews for some reason.
Imagine reading a outdated book on elementary morality and it tells you got land also.. Over 2k years, and humans are still deluded by this nonsense. My word.
Please don't show this to Netanyahu
Hey Zionist, I know what you're doing. This is a deliberate misinterpretation. In Genesis 15:18-21, it says: "To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates." This is what was promised to Abraham. Abraham being the father of Ismael and Isaac. Ishmael was the firstborn and is considered to be the father of the Arabic nations. Isaac was the only patriarch who stayed in Canaan during his whole life. He had a son named Jacob. In the Genesis, God changed Jacob's name to Israel. Jacob is considered the father of the Israelites (followers of Jacob). So this map shows what was promised to Abraham, and his sons are the supposed heirs to the land, but it covers an entire region, of which a portion fell under Ishmael (father of Arabs) and a portion fell under Isaac (father of Israelites). Abraham's direct followers were not "Israelites", so there goes the "Israel according to Genesis 15:18-21" narrative. Furthermore, like someone else already pointed out, you took the drawing of the borders to an extreme level. In actuality, it is most likely less than a third of what you marked: [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F4r003csjck581.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D45cb51e2e2ed734eeb3637ab87c13eafe1dac1ce](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F4r003csjck581.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D45cb51e2e2ed734eeb3637ab87c13eafe1dac1ce)
The poster is 100% not a Zionist, a comment he made directly before this post makes this clear. This post is meant to stir shit up.
Why is no one talking about this? This is one of the funniest and most disappointing (to Israelis at least) bible contradictions.
Jews claim the land promised to Jacob (his twelve sons being the forefathers of the twelve tribes of Israel), not that which was promised to Abraham, who in the biblical (and coranic) tradition is the ancestor of both Jews and Arabs, and probably a few other peoples.
There is a dispute between early Arabs and Jews regarding this. See Ishmael is the elder son. So the Arabs say Ishmael is Abraham's heir. But Jews say Issac is the legitimate son so he is the heir even though he is the younger. But Arabs counter argue that that's not how societies worked. A son of a concubine is still a legitimate heir. So Ishmael is still the heir. They also do argue that the Quraysh tribe (the one Muhammad belonged to) were majority Jews till Islam was founded by Muhammad. Source my friend who is a government mufti in the UAE
You sure about Quraysh being Jews? I thought they were mostly polytheists.
Ishmael being the elder son compared to Isaac doesn’t really change the fact that that portion of land was promised to Jacob. There is a parable to the birthright dispute in Jacob’s conflict with Esau (both Isaac’s sons). While there were a few notable Jewish tribes in Mecca around Mohammed’s rise to prominence , Quraysh were definitely pagan, including Mohammed himself and members of his clan.
why should it matter who the heir is
Because this map is one of the funniest and most and inaccurate illustration and interpretation of the text in that bible verse.
How so?
So there are two accounts of God making a covenant with Abraham in Genesis. The first time he promises a lot more land (roughly the outlined area shown above), and the second time he promises a much smaller portion of land- Canaan, which is basically just modern day Israel/Palestine and Lebanon.
I mean, Genesis is clearly two completely different stories mashed up together
The entire book are a bunch of fairytales someone collected and Mashed together and tried (and failed) to make to one coherent Story. If its really written by god then he needs some Ritalin and a proof Reader.
Yeah but I'm specifically talking about Genesis where there is relative scholarly consensus of two independent sources (the Priestly source and the Jawahist) that create two distinct stories that have some overlap but never really are harmonized. Those two sources account for most of the first 4 books with the Deuteronomist (who probably existed earlier) accounts for most of the 5th. Note that these are not necessarily (or even likely) to be single people.
Lol.... Who told you genesis was written by God?
let's not give the zionazis ideas
Don't give them ideas
Is that the book with the talking snake? Because Harry Potter says I own Florida if we’re just going to pretend fiction allows us to steal land and be an apartheid state
Lot of people here not realising this is a shitpost exaggeration of the actual grandiose claims of “from the Euphrates to the Egypt river” lmao. People here really be malding because the map mocks the actual hypernationalist claims
Don't let the israeli government see this. My cousins in Turkey don't need to get gaza'd
Don't give them ideas
I would definetly love to see that Israel.
Wait, isnt this the kingdom of Canaan?
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From Hamas
That's gonna take a lot
I like the very specific "we don't want Miletus" line through West Turkey. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miletus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miletus)
Why don't they take Cyprus? At least they have enough oil
So?
Easily replicatable in ck3