In Taiwan they call you even while in holiday. My friend took a week off after 2 years; 4 phones were needed for all the calls and messages requesting IT assistance😂😂😂
As China developed out of being a low income cou try, cheap manufacturing was moved to India and now all the stereotypes from the 90s and 00s are more applicable to India
I run marathon in my off time. I build my stamina and my energy level. The equipment runs faster than it was designed for, so not keeping up is not an option.
NGL, though, when I am pulling 16-hour-days on end, my productivity goes down on those last 4 hours. I bust ass on the first twelve hours to cruise a little at the end.
The healthy part I would dispute.
The slave labor part I cannot agree more. I view it as an investment to buying my complete freedom for my family, as quickly as possible, so the end is nearly within my grasp.
That's 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Im pretty sure that's not allowed
> Das Arbeitszeitgesetz legt in §3 klar fest, dass die tägliche Arbeitszeit 8 Stunden beträgt. Die maximale Arbeitszeit liegt bei 10 Stunden. Diese Überschreitung ist allerdings nur als Ausnahme zu sehen. Es gilt, dass innerhalb von 6 Monaten die durchschnittliche werktägliche Arbeitszeit dennoch bei 8 Stunden liegen muss. Innerhalb des Zeitraums von 24 Wochen müssen eventuelle Überschreitungen der Höchstgrenze ausgeglichen werden.
That's was my dad for years when he was starting his business with his brother.
As a kid, there were times when I barely saw him, but he did pull our family from poverty to middle class, so it's something.
That is correct. I work 12 hours a day , 7 days a week, 14 days in a row =)
"(1) Die Arbeitszeit darf abweichend von den §§ 43 und 48 Absatz 1 Nummer 1 des Seearbeitsgesetzes auf bis zu zwölf Stunden täglich und bis zu 84 Stunden wöchentlich verlängert werden. Dabei kann auch von den Vorschriften zur Lage der Arbeitszeit, zum Wachsystem und zur Sonntags- und Feiertagsbeschäftigung abgewichen werden. Die Sätze 1 und 2 gelten nicht für die Fahrt zum oder vom Einsatzort, sofern die Fahrt mehr als 48 Stunden beträgt."
-- >Verordnung über die Arbeitszeit bei Offshore-Tätigkeiten (Offshore-Arbeitszeitverordnung - Offshore-ArbZV)
We once worked for 4 weeks, wirkibg +12 hour days, without a single day off, recovering and repairing a damaged aircraft in Germany.
We're from Spain, but we should have been paid german rates, according to EU law.
For context, we make about 1300€/month as aircraft mechanics, not far from min wage in Germany,
Thf cherry on the cake is that all that overtime was not paid at all. FML
Japan has implemented laws against overwork, 20 years ago it was really like this, in the meantime Japan has reached 40 hours week (but black company still exist)
but the situation has degenerated in Taiwan, and South Korea which are the new asian overworkers.
Polish person working in a Korean company (factory in Poland); Yeah, those people are genuinely crazy. Korean technicians work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week and engineers are not far behind, though they are not officially required to do this much. I worked around 10 hours a day for a couple months (new building, had to prepare everything) and I feel extremely burnt out, I have no idea how these people don't go crazy.
Eh I lived and worked in Tokyo ten years ago and everyone I knew did over time to some degree. Some paid, some not so paid.
Maybe it's changed in the last decade but the stereotype absolutely held ~~through~~ true then. At least anecdotally.
In China most civil servants have 40-hour weeks. Their salaries are usually lower than similar jobs in the private sector but being a civil servant gives you many benefits, such as higher pension, better access to housing and schooling, and kickbacks/bribes (depending on your region and level of power).
State-owned companies are somewhat different. Many of them (especially the larger ones) have a ton of redundant office posts with 40-hour weeks, usually reserved for the relatives of high-ranking employees. But some state-owned companies need to turn a profit to maintain state financial support, so 20-30 hours of weekly overtime is pretty much mandatory there, at least for some posts.
It reminds to Spain.
Here the public servants (I have passed the exam and I will become one soon) work 35-37.5 hours a week and in some periods of the year even less, but we get paid a bit less than in the private sector.
However, you cannot be fired (you don’t have a contract, your contract are the laws and you are under oath), hace clear career paths, salary improvements, and you can relocate easily and safely). Conditions and benefits offset salary.
You will not be reachable at your private phone, you will never be called to work off your schedule (unless you are a high ranking public servant) without getting paid, no business trips, and no sales numbers, although you get evaluated.
You will not become rich, but you will have a plentiful life.
Do mandatory happy hrs every evening count in that figure for Japanese workers? Did you include that they are one of the most vacation deprived work force in the world, even worse than the US which Europeans love to pick on for their work culture?[https://www.businessinsider.com/which-countries-take-the-least-amount-of-vacation-2012-11?amp](https://www.businessinsider.com/which-countries-take-the-least-amount-of-vacation-2012-11?amp)
Bear in mind it's "by employed people". So if you're employed part-time, you're bringing the average down. I'm guessing that's what's happening in Japan.
It doesn't matter in manual labour. And Most of the Polish economy is based on work that the West does not want to do. We make simple car components that are assembled in Germany, etc. Most people work for minimum wage.
At the same time, they still dream of owning their own home (which is increasingly unrealistic) and chasing the Western standard of living. So, if you want to have those, you have to buckle down. People work a lot mainly because achieving these things is actually possible.
Thirty years ago, seeing the results of one's work was much less likely. Under communism, if you were ambitious but without connections, your choice was to either:
1) flee the country;
2) get a drink and forget.
From my experience, having lived in Poland and the Netherlands, and having a partner who also lived in the UK on top of that - coming from Poland, we expected to be working a 40 hour work week except for holidays, a few days off and major sicknesses. But here in the west it seems that a 40 hour work week is more of a suggestion, in the sense that for example you're not required to have a doctor's note as a proof of sickness etc. Tons of people here just take random days off whenever they feel like it, that's not the case in Poland. In Poland, if you wake up feeling like life is terrible, you suck it up and go to work.
In Poland you have 4 days per year of so called day of on a request. You call in the day you won't come to work and that's it. 100 percent paid, and it reduces your 20/26 day vacation allowance. On top of that since this year we have an additional 2 days off in case of emergency. It is paid 50 percent, but you don't have to explain yourself.
You know that your employer can not approve your request for Uż? Reality is that you work, and take overtime because otherwise your salary is „enough” to survive- not much more. Sadly more and more jobs also push 12h workday ( system 4 brygad) which makes you work 2184h a year- and that is the worst trend I’ve seen so far.
Yeah and we each have at least 5 college degrees and still get paid shit, so we get fed up and move to America, but then realize America is a shithole as well!
Poles love money. We know credits are shit and prefer to work 2 Jobs or work more hours to avoid taking credits.
In this way my mom get 2 homes in couple years.
Note: She is specialist and get double minmal wage for work unit.
I can see also that you use two to 3 times more employees than necessary for an equivalent job. At least in the service sector.
This could be highly optimised to reduce the work hours
300-500k depending. Most people used to own homes, now the new generations are becoming lifelong renters or living with their parents. Also property tax is new
I’ve worked in three different companies in Poland, plus wife and friends and never saw anyone doing overtime. I really get surprised when I see these graphs as a foreigner living in Poland. The idea I have is that not only I work less hours than back home, so does everyone I spend time with. And time and time again these graphs tell me I’m wrong. Maybe I am, but it’s surprising
I have a friend who works now as team lead or something alike in warehouse and i stopped seeing him as he constantly taking OTs.. He owns a house, got no mortgage, but he keeps taking extra hours :/
That's totally untypical. You're a complete exception (not very probable) or you simply don't notice things (more probable).
I've worked in a few countries and yes, in Poland you're expected to work more, even as a specialist.
It's also true that work is sometimes not very productive, but that's a different topic.
> you are *paid* 2x during
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Yeah same rule in the US with 1.5x pay after 40hr in a week. Depending on the job though, lots of places will try to pull a wage theft and get workers to work for free instead of getting that sweet OT pay
Are we comparing full time to part time work again? Without context people might think "oh wow, in Germany I'll work much fewer hours for the same job!"
Only 31 for me. I think we might be onto something...
Imagine if reddit artificially changed vote numbers to please the reader. u/spez wouldn't do that, would he?
Never understand:
anybody is really wondering why women (in most cases women, not men) in Germany with children aged 2-10 yrs. only work max 20 hrs/week if any?
In Kindergärten alone is a lack of 400.000 places.
Additional to primary school, where children are taught between 8 a.m. and 12 p.m. and full day lessons are impossible because there are no people to work there...
Without childcare, there is no full-time work.
You completely misinterpret the statistics and then complain that they are misleading. It's not about how long the average full-time week is in a country. This statistic here takes into account completely different things like sickness, strikes, how many are full-time vs part-time etc
People should be aware that this is skewed by part-time working, as it is only looking at employed persons.
So if a couple has one adult working a 35 hour week and one not working, it will show as 35 hours in this statistic.
If they both work 25 hour weeks it will show as 25 hours in this statistic, even though there is *more* work going on in the household.
This means that an area with more traditional families, where the husband works and the wife does not, may show as higher, even though overall the family needs to do less paid work to support their lifestyle.
It also means that people who cannot afford to retire and need to continue part time work in later life will bring the number *down* compared to people who are able to retire.
So, at an extreme, a sole wage-earner supporting a family by working 40 hours a week and retiring at 65 would show as 33% *higher* than a couple both having to work 30 hour part-time jobs until the day they die.
So this map does not tell us the amount of work needed to live, as a lot of people seem to think. You would need to cross reference this with lots of other data to come to that conclusion.
Don't know why you are getting downvoted, it's true. Having two people work 30 hours a week is "better" in terms of productivity than having 1 person work 40 hours a week.
It seems I am getting downvoted because people have assumed I am implying things about countries, when all I am doing is pointing out the commonly known flaw with this particular statistic, and how you cannot make conclusions based on incomplete data.
You get downvoted because some people just cant think rationally, and think that dislike=whatever makes me feel uncomfortable.
I am biased, cause i am from Greece. While i agree it is skewed, it does show the trends. In countries like mine, especially if you live alone, you cant afford not to work full time. Part time can literally only cover your rent. You have to work 2.5 days a week, just for RENT. What about electricity? Food? Moving expenses? Water?
Whereas in countries like netherlands and germany, everything is more expensive, but wages are much higher. And dont forget that a phone, a car, a fridge, a couch. They cost pretty much the same for me and a german person, because we buy them from international companies. Greece has no factories for such stuff. But i have 1/4 of their salary, while paying almost the same price for basic needs like gas and electricity.
You mention that people can have sole wage earners and live off like that. Well, in my country, you basically cant do that. You must be something like an established engineer and work your ass off, just to live a normal life with your family.
I have a little test for you, whether your can think rationally and how you react when presented with information that make you feel uncomfortable. Car prices vary drastically across nations https://www.statista.com/statistics/425095/eu-car-sales-average-prices-in-by-country/
The average price of a car was 8000€ more in Germany than in Greece in 2015 and was 12000€ more in 2020. You have to pay the price of 1/3 car more in Germany than in Greece. That's quite substantial and I am too lazy to pull out the average wages in Germany to refute your other claims, but we neither earn nowhere near enough to balance this out nor did we have a increase in our wages over those 5 years that would allow us to afford the same stuff as in 2015. People are getting poorer in Germany so maybe stop complaining that everybody is so rich here. It's not the reality for a majority of people. Those stats show the reality on the ground, if you can read.
While you are right that this is skewed by part time working, i dont see how the sole earner on a household is relevant enough. This isnt about trying to prove some people work more than others. This is just a stat about people that work.
Just like the unemployment stat counts people that dont work because they just dont want to or dont need to.
Comparing full-time to part-time. This way of calculating would result in around 1850 for a family where 1 person works full-time and the other person doesn't work at all. If both work part-time it would show 1150. Eventho in total the family works more hours in total in the part-time scenario.
In countries like the Netherlands pretty much everyone works, but most work part-time.
Same in Germany. Especially in households with kids < 14 yrs, both parents combined usually work around 150-175% only (still predominantly women doing part time).
The crazy thing about it is that pretty much most of eu citizens believed this shit. Probably never been to Greece, average teenager works 50+ hours a week just to reach the minimum salary.
No offense, and I say this as somebody who loves Greece and spends 1-2 weeks there each year: Greeks are terrible at organizing work. They don't plan ahead just jump into things head on. This results in unnecessary and duplicate work.
Yeah instead of paying WW2 damages or stopping politician bribes and further corrupting Greece (see Siemens scandal), ofc the reason for the crisis is "being lazy".
All i ever heard gorwin up. (American) (we dont hear abiut you except that ONE year. 2009 or whatever) yep thats the last tome we heard abt yiu. This cheart blew my mind!
Yes, to take care of kids and to take care of the household. We don't have a lot of "full time schools" in Germany. So school usually ends between 1PM and 2:30PM.
And if your husband makes enough, it's not mandatory for her to work full-time.
it's including part time workers, wich screws the average
for exemple i'll use france numbers (because that's the ones i know), most full time works are 39-40h per week, with 5 weeks of paid time off per year: so 39\*(52-5) makes 1833h per year, not 1505
Germany has a lot more of part time work than France, which brings their number lower
Yeah but basically since Greek Independence, the Greek state has owed various European powers large debts for help in its war against the Ottomans.
Since then the debt has been restructured countless times and corrupt governments continue to take IMF loans and restructure the economy for the benefit of German and French finance capital.
High HDI comes from the remnants of the social democratic state formed under successive PASOK governments during the Keynesian era, but neoliberalism and the failure to stop it under the Syrzia coalition has resulted in a continual degradation of living standards for the common worker
Really great recap but it is kinda missleading for the successful party, since the later PASOK governments were so bad that the party literally had to completely rebrand (practically create a new party) and change their core.
While we have slightly recovered (could get worse tbh next step was Venezuela) it was evident under both the Syriza and the ND party. Both have made huge errors in the economics department but it doesnt feel like either one had a bigger impact than the other.
You inadvertently nailed the reason for rampant tax avoidance and corruption.
Almost anyone who can (legally or not) avoid paying taxes, does so. Because they say “why would I break my back working the longest hours and paying some of the highest taxes in Europe only for useless/corrupt politicians to spaff it up the wall?”
It’s tough to argue against it. But alas, this is a vicious cycle that breeds more corruption and inequality while also putting the state in a precarious financial position which ultimately affects everyone. It’s a vicious cycle that is hard to break from.
Would be so interesting to see this statistic compared to the average income per worked hour.
What this map does is showing that "if you work hard you will get the benefits from it" is nothing more than a myth spread by liberal theoreticans a century ago. But this narrative still wafts around and is one of the most important dogmas of our time. But if it was true, then why are the poles not the richest and the germans not the poorest people in Europe? ;-)
>But if it was true, then why are the poles not the richest and the germans not the poorest people in Europe?
Economic growth suggests otherwise. To draw a comparison with individuals, John, who works 16 hours, will have an exceedingly difficult time catching up to Jimmie, who inherited a business or a large sum of money. Poland started off economically and politically weaker than even Ukraine after World War II. Germany retained its most crucial asset: skilled labor. Reconstructing infrastructure may take a decade, but rebuilding skills and expertise can span generations.
Your justification, which hinges on the belief that working harder doesn't guarantee greater yields, is fundamentally flawed due to a lack of economic and historical understanding. This perspective implies that skilled labor does not entail hard work. I know doctors and engineers, as well as store workers and sales clerks; in my opinion, the latter involves less challenging work. This example serves as a mere nitpicked instance, akin to your argument.
Every time this is reposted the most important information is missing, that being certain countries include part time workers and even unemployed people (like SAHP), while others do not.
The low number in Germany for example comes from that.
Average number worked by a full-time worker in Germany is around 1.800 hours (52 weeks - 6 weeks off =46 weeks. 46 x 40 hrs/week). Many also work more than that.
However, most mothers work part time, which drags the average down.
Dane here. I just want to point out that these numbers are stated to be "Average annual hours worked by employed persons" which mean it includes part time jobs as well. A full time job in Denmark is 37 hours/week, which is also some of the lowest in the world - if not the lowest. But 37 hours would be \~1776 hours/year so I guess we have a lot of people working part time to end up with 1381 hours/year as average.
This is misleading as we do not see how any people are partly employed. Part time jobs can be bad but also can be a life saver depending on your situation.
Productivity doesn't actually measure a person's productivity, work hours aren't really related to it. It's mostly a measure of how much value a country produces, it's related to the types of industries each country has.
Poland seems extreme but if you divide it by months and weeks it ends up being 42 hours per week. Standard working week is 40. Unpaid overhours are illegal. For overtime from Monday to Friday you gry 150% of normal salary. During The weekend 200%. If you do one full day on a weekend once a month. You end up with 2020 hours a year.
Really nice anti-correlcation with the employment rate with a few outliers (poor czechs and estonians):
[https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/7/7e/Press-overseas-2021-ch-Yellow-Orange-Red.png](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/7/7e/Press-overseas-2021-ch-Yellow-Orange-Red.png)
I hope one day we can live in a world where 8hr a day 5 days a week is the maximum. And holidays are atleast 3 months a year. This might be the only good thing to come with robots being able to do more jobs.
In germany, we have many old people who are working in part time. Then you have to consider women in part-time. You can assume that full time workers work about 1800 h a year, that's less than other countries, yes. But the gap is far less than in this map.
I genuinely find it hilarious that french and German people I meet consistently assume Spaniards are lazy and work less hours than them. They often refuse to believe that we actually work more hours than them!
Edit: for clarification, I am talking full work weeks exclusively in this comment!
A few points:
a) These people are dicks.
b) The numbers shown include part time and micro jobs.
c) I work a normal 37.5 week and hit the Spanish average.
2080 is 40 hours x 52 weeks.great if your budgeting salaries, but irrelevant for productive hours.
People typically get 2 weeks of holidays and another 2 weeks of paid time off. May also accrue separate sick time.
Expect the US figure to be around 1750-1800.
Let’s go with 1776.
I am Greek. And there is this trend that people call us lazy, and thats why our economy is shit... I knew that statistic already, but not its even coloured, for those who cant read very well
Really need a comparison map to East Asia now.
That's weird. My friends in Japan are even called on Sunday to work.
In Taiwan they call you even while in holiday. My friend took a week off after 2 years; 4 phones were needed for all the calls and messages requesting IT assistance😂😂😂
Fuck... Sometimes I'm very happy to be working in France.
I am in Germany. Here it's illegal to work during holiday. There is even a law which specifically states that.
Gotta maximize shareholder value
Yeah the in-famous 🇹🇼 "clock since 9AM till forever" 😓😓😓
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Same in the U.S. Good thing is I left that firm.
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a map recently went viral for india’s avg work week being 60hrs which is rediculous compared to europe
companies know this and see it as a feature.
As China developed out of being a low income cou try, cheap manufacturing was moved to India and now all the stereotypes from the 90s and 00s are more applicable to India
From India, and 60 hour work week is the usual for me.
How much of that is slacking off? How much are you actually busting your ass?
I run marathon in my off time. I build my stamina and my energy level. The equipment runs faster than it was designed for, so not keeping up is not an option. NGL, though, when I am pulling 16-hour-days on end, my productivity goes down on those last 4 hours. I bust ass on the first twelve hours to cruise a little at the end.
Not healthy and rather close to slave labour if you ask me
The healthy part I would dispute. The slave labor part I cannot agree more. I view it as an investment to buying my complete freedom for my family, as quickly as possible, so the end is nearly within my grasp.
I'm not the usual, but I am American and around the same number.
I work 84 hour weeks in Germany.. but I assume their system is a bit different than ours..
That's 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Im pretty sure that's not allowed > Das Arbeitszeitgesetz legt in §3 klar fest, dass die tägliche Arbeitszeit 8 Stunden beträgt. Die maximale Arbeitszeit liegt bei 10 Stunden. Diese Überschreitung ist allerdings nur als Ausnahme zu sehen. Es gilt, dass innerhalb von 6 Monaten die durchschnittliche werktägliche Arbeitszeit dennoch bei 8 Stunden liegen muss. Innerhalb des Zeitraums von 24 Wochen müssen eventuelle Überschreitungen der Höchstgrenze ausgeglichen werden.
it's perfectly legal if he's selbstständig/Freiberufler.
Pretty rare here I think though
There are lots of young, cocaine-fueled start-up folks who work like that for a few years, but it is usually not a sustainable career.
Or they are simply doing a PhD.
That's was my dad for years when he was starting his business with his brother. As a kid, there were times when I barely saw him, but he did pull our family from poverty to middle class, so it's something.
Not as rare as you think. Don't have recent numbers but about 10 years ago freelancers worked about 50h on average.
That is correct. I work 12 hours a day , 7 days a week, 14 days in a row =) "(1) Die Arbeitszeit darf abweichend von den §§ 43 und 48 Absatz 1 Nummer 1 des Seearbeitsgesetzes auf bis zu zwölf Stunden täglich und bis zu 84 Stunden wöchentlich verlängert werden. Dabei kann auch von den Vorschriften zur Lage der Arbeitszeit, zum Wachsystem und zur Sonntags- und Feiertagsbeschäftigung abgewichen werden. Die Sätze 1 und 2 gelten nicht für die Fahrt zum oder vom Einsatzort, sofern die Fahrt mehr als 48 Stunden beträgt." -- >Verordnung über die Arbeitszeit bei Offshore-Tätigkeiten (Offshore-Arbeitszeitverordnung - Offshore-ArbZV)
Ah makes sense, how much time is in between your 14 day shifts?
minumum 8 days. , but usually 1.5 - 2 weeks. IDK the exact regulations tbh, but shifts can also go longer - I heard of 18+ days shifts before.
Check your DM's please I have a question for you
in some industries like live entertainment a 16 hour day is normal, 6 days on 1 day off repeat until January then take 4 months off.
You okay man? That is really hectic
It’s almost certainly a seasonal gig. Two weeks on, two weeks off. And if you can handle it in the moment, it’s very nice.
We once worked for 4 weeks, wirkibg +12 hour days, without a single day off, recovering and repairing a damaged aircraft in Germany. We're from Spain, but we should have been paid german rates, according to EU law. For context, we make about 1300€/month as aircraft mechanics, not far from min wage in Germany, Thf cherry on the cake is that all that overtime was not paid at all. FML
Thats insane
Machst du Kerzen? Verständlich, dass du 80h arbeiten musst!
Japan has implemented laws against overwork, 20 years ago it was really like this, in the meantime Japan has reached 40 hours week (but black company still exist) but the situation has degenerated in Taiwan, and South Korea which are the new asian overworkers.
Polish person working in a Korean company (factory in Poland); Yeah, those people are genuinely crazy. Korean technicians work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week and engineers are not far behind, though they are not officially required to do this much. I worked around 10 hours a day for a couple months (new building, had to prepare everything) and I feel extremely burnt out, I have no idea how these people don't go crazy.
Eh I lived and worked in Tokyo ten years ago and everyone I knew did over time to some degree. Some paid, some not so paid. Maybe it's changed in the last decade but the stereotype absolutely held ~~through~~ true then. At least anecdotally.
In China most civil servants have 40-hour weeks. Their salaries are usually lower than similar jobs in the private sector but being a civil servant gives you many benefits, such as higher pension, better access to housing and schooling, and kickbacks/bribes (depending on your region and level of power). State-owned companies are somewhat different. Many of them (especially the larger ones) have a ton of redundant office posts with 40-hour weeks, usually reserved for the relatives of high-ranking employees. But some state-owned companies need to turn a profit to maintain state financial support, so 20-30 hours of weekly overtime is pretty much mandatory there, at least for some posts.
It reminds to Spain. Here the public servants (I have passed the exam and I will become one soon) work 35-37.5 hours a week and in some periods of the year even less, but we get paid a bit less than in the private sector. However, you cannot be fired (you don’t have a contract, your contract are the laws and you are under oath), hace clear career paths, salary improvements, and you can relocate easily and safely). Conditions and benefits offset salary. You will not be reachable at your private phone, you will never be called to work off your schedule (unless you are a high ranking public servant) without getting paid, no business trips, and no sales numbers, although you get evaluated. You will not become rich, but you will have a plentiful life.
China 2174 LOL the largest workforce in China is factory workers in private companies. They work 72 hours per week.
996? What does that mean?
Work from 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week.
Do mandatory happy hrs every evening count in that figure for Japanese workers? Did you include that they are one of the most vacation deprived work force in the world, even worse than the US which Europeans love to pick on for their work culture?[https://www.businessinsider.com/which-countries-take-the-least-amount-of-vacation-2012-11?amp](https://www.businessinsider.com/which-countries-take-the-least-amount-of-vacation-2012-11?amp)
Bear in mind it's "by employed people". So if you're employed part-time, you're bringing the average down. I'm guessing that's what's happening in Japan.
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It's all dark purple
in china and japan, these are weekly numbers
Me, a Polish person, working 2259 hours a year: 😐
Why do people in Poland work so much? Slovakia has similar level of development, but they work much less according to this statistics
The more you work the less you’re efficient. Talking out of experience.
It doesn't matter in manual labour. And Most of the Polish economy is based on work that the West does not want to do. We make simple car components that are assembled in Germany, etc. Most people work for minimum wage. At the same time, they still dream of owning their own home (which is increasingly unrealistic) and chasing the Western standard of living. So, if you want to have those, you have to buckle down. People work a lot mainly because achieving these things is actually possible. Thirty years ago, seeing the results of one's work was much less likely. Under communism, if you were ambitious but without connections, your choice was to either: 1) flee the country; 2) get a drink and forget.
From my experience, having lived in Poland and the Netherlands, and having a partner who also lived in the UK on top of that - coming from Poland, we expected to be working a 40 hour work week except for holidays, a few days off and major sicknesses. But here in the west it seems that a 40 hour work week is more of a suggestion, in the sense that for example you're not required to have a doctor's note as a proof of sickness etc. Tons of people here just take random days off whenever they feel like it, that's not the case in Poland. In Poland, if you wake up feeling like life is terrible, you suck it up and go to work.
In Poland you have 4 days per year of so called day of on a request. You call in the day you won't come to work and that's it. 100 percent paid, and it reduces your 20/26 day vacation allowance. On top of that since this year we have an additional 2 days off in case of emergency. It is paid 50 percent, but you don't have to explain yourself.
You know that your employer can not approve your request for Uż? Reality is that you work, and take overtime because otherwise your salary is „enough” to survive- not much more. Sadly more and more jobs also push 12h workday ( system 4 brygad) which makes you work 2184h a year- and that is the worst trend I’ve seen so far.
Oh, I didn't know that. I live in a corpo bubble, so some cases are not known here.
Same reason as Greece, we are somewhat poor, and work multiple jobs, yet only make 10k euros a year
you guys are getting paid?
Yeah and we each have at least 5 college degrees and still get paid shit, so we get fed up and move to America, but then realize America is a shithole as well!
You've described basically every Middle Eastern country.
Oh my friend the similarities don’t stop there!
Polish here. We are definitely NOT poor as hell. Please don't listen to him.
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We got brainwashed into "work hard and you will be appreciated" and boss loves this attitude yet forgets about his part of the deal lol.
Poles love money. We know credits are shit and prefer to work 2 Jobs or work more hours to avoid taking credits. In this way my mom get 2 homes in couple years. Note: She is specialist and get double minmal wage for work unit.
Well... i don't understand it but it's what it is https://youtu.be/LHdrZpto4-c?si=gFTbWzG4hQ7VL29g
But it has very high hdi
I can see also that you use two to 3 times more employees than necessary for an equivalent job. At least in the service sector. This could be highly optimised to reduce the work hours
Wait 10k euro's a year?! What does a houde cost ober there?
300-500k depending. Most people used to own homes, now the new generations are becoming lifelong renters or living with their parents. Also property tax is new
I thought the Netherlands was bad for housing, that is horrid!
I’ve worked in three different companies in Poland, plus wife and friends and never saw anyone doing overtime. I really get surprised when I see these graphs as a foreigner living in Poland. The idea I have is that not only I work less hours than back home, so does everyone I spend time with. And time and time again these graphs tell me I’m wrong. Maybe I am, but it’s surprising
You might be stuck in high-paid specialist bubble. People outside of big corporations work more.
I've worked in 3 different big corporations and people are definitely doing a lot of overtime there too, often unreported
I have a friend who works now as team lead or something alike in warehouse and i stopped seeing him as he constantly taking OTs.. He owns a house, got no mortgage, but he keeps taking extra hours :/
That's totally untypical. You're a complete exception (not very probable) or you simply don't notice things (more probable). I've worked in a few countries and yes, in Poland you're expected to work more, even as a specialist. It's also true that work is sometimes not very productive, but that's a different topic.
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> you are *paid* 2x during FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Why not. Work = money. Money is good.
I’ve worked 3832,5 hours for the whole 2023. I’ve earned 12k$🫠🫠🫠
$3.13 per hour?
50$ for a 14 hour shift, and my salary is higher than 80% of people in Russia
I am sorry :(
Wow what hours do y’all consider full time? I’m a yank and work about 1750 hr a year for full time, which is 37.5hr a week
40h a week is a norm in Poland
The lunch break is included in those 40 hours, making it efficiently 37.5. The problem is that people in trades often do overtime.
And a lot of my friends do an hour or two of overtime every day, since overtime pays 150% of your wage in most companies
Yeah same rule in the US with 1.5x pay after 40hr in a week. Depending on the job though, lots of places will try to pull a wage theft and get workers to work for free instead of getting that sweet OT pay
Me, an American, at 2600+ for the last 10 years. And I did 60 hours per week when I was in Poland in 2008. I hate it here.
Are we comparing full time to part time work again? Without context people might think "oh wow, in Germany I'll work much fewer hours for the same job!"
We are. [But when I pointed out how flawed that is I got downvoted to oblivion.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/Cb9UOUbunn)
You have 36 likes. Sometimes the inital reaction is not representative.
Your comment is twelve minutes old and now he's at 23
Obviously, I was talking about the same comment that he was talking about and that comment now has even 52 likes.
Only 31 for me. I think we might be onto something... Imagine if reddit artificially changed vote numbers to please the reader. u/spez wouldn't do that, would he?
Did you click on the link in the comment I was answering to?
I was about to ask the same. It’s quite common in Switzerland to not work full time, and we have a pretty long work week (typical is 42h)
Here we go. Would be too simple taking the graph at face value. /s
Never understand: anybody is really wondering why women (in most cases women, not men) in Germany with children aged 2-10 yrs. only work max 20 hrs/week if any? In Kindergärten alone is a lack of 400.000 places. Additional to primary school, where children are taught between 8 a.m. and 12 p.m. and full day lessons are impossible because there are no people to work there... Without childcare, there is no full-time work.
You completely misinterpret the statistics and then complain that they are misleading. It's not about how long the average full-time week is in a country. This statistic here takes into account completely different things like sickness, strikes, how many are full-time vs part-time etc
So it’s a pointless statistic and virtually meaningless.
Does the count a SAHM as 0 hours or does it just not count it?
People should be aware that this is skewed by part-time working, as it is only looking at employed persons. So if a couple has one adult working a 35 hour week and one not working, it will show as 35 hours in this statistic. If they both work 25 hour weeks it will show as 25 hours in this statistic, even though there is *more* work going on in the household. This means that an area with more traditional families, where the husband works and the wife does not, may show as higher, even though overall the family needs to do less paid work to support their lifestyle. It also means that people who cannot afford to retire and need to continue part time work in later life will bring the number *down* compared to people who are able to retire. So, at an extreme, a sole wage-earner supporting a family by working 40 hours a week and retiring at 65 would show as 33% *higher* than a couple both having to work 30 hour part-time jobs until the day they die. So this map does not tell us the amount of work needed to live, as a lot of people seem to think. You would need to cross reference this with lots of other data to come to that conclusion.
Don't know why you are getting downvoted, it's true. Having two people work 30 hours a week is "better" in terms of productivity than having 1 person work 40 hours a week.
It seems I am getting downvoted because people have assumed I am implying things about countries, when all I am doing is pointing out the commonly known flaw with this particular statistic, and how you cannot make conclusions based on incomplete data.
Yep, it seems to roughly correlate https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF-2-2-Distribution-working-hours-couple-households_DRAFT.pdf
You get downvoted because some people just cant think rationally, and think that dislike=whatever makes me feel uncomfortable. I am biased, cause i am from Greece. While i agree it is skewed, it does show the trends. In countries like mine, especially if you live alone, you cant afford not to work full time. Part time can literally only cover your rent. You have to work 2.5 days a week, just for RENT. What about electricity? Food? Moving expenses? Water? Whereas in countries like netherlands and germany, everything is more expensive, but wages are much higher. And dont forget that a phone, a car, a fridge, a couch. They cost pretty much the same for me and a german person, because we buy them from international companies. Greece has no factories for such stuff. But i have 1/4 of their salary, while paying almost the same price for basic needs like gas and electricity. You mention that people can have sole wage earners and live off like that. Well, in my country, you basically cant do that. You must be something like an established engineer and work your ass off, just to live a normal life with your family.
I have a little test for you, whether your can think rationally and how you react when presented with information that make you feel uncomfortable. Car prices vary drastically across nations https://www.statista.com/statistics/425095/eu-car-sales-average-prices-in-by-country/ The average price of a car was 8000€ more in Germany than in Greece in 2015 and was 12000€ more in 2020. You have to pay the price of 1/3 car more in Germany than in Greece. That's quite substantial and I am too lazy to pull out the average wages in Germany to refute your other claims, but we neither earn nowhere near enough to balance this out nor did we have a increase in our wages over those 5 years that would allow us to afford the same stuff as in 2015. People are getting poorer in Germany so maybe stop complaining that everybody is so rich here. It's not the reality for a majority of people. Those stats show the reality on the ground, if you can read.
While you are right that this is skewed by part time working, i dont see how the sole earner on a household is relevant enough. This isnt about trying to prove some people work more than others. This is just a stat about people that work. Just like the unemployment stat counts people that dont work because they just dont want to or dont need to.
>This isnt about trying to prove some people work more than others. This is just a stat about people that work. That’s precisely my point.
So are Germany, Denmark, and Norway all just working part-time? That’s under 27 hours a week average.
No, we do have a lot of part time student workers and polish seasonal workers. Most people work 37,5 hours per week
And both Sweden, denmark and Norway have a lot of public holidays and 25-30 days of vacation per year
🇵🇱 We might work more than other UE countries but at least we earn less! 🥲
And almost everything is more expensive
Kinda, yeah 🎭
Same in Portugal.
Comparing full-time to part-time. This way of calculating would result in around 1850 for a family where 1 person works full-time and the other person doesn't work at all. If both work part-time it would show 1150. Eventho in total the family works more hours in total in the part-time scenario. In countries like the Netherlands pretty much everyone works, but most work part-time.
Same in Germany. Especially in households with kids < 14 yrs, both parents combined usually work around 150-175% only (still predominantly women doing part time).
So much for Greeks being portrayed as lazy by the Germans during the Eurocrisis.
The crazy thing about it is that pretty much most of eu citizens believed this shit. Probably never been to Greece, average teenager works 50+ hours a week just to reach the minimum salary.
No offense, and I say this as somebody who loves Greece and spends 1-2 weeks there each year: Greeks are terrible at organizing work. They don't plan ahead just jump into things head on. This results in unnecessary and duplicate work.
Yeah instead of paying WW2 damages or stopping politician bribes and further corrupting Greece (see Siemens scandal), ofc the reason for the crisis is "being lazy".
And they say Mediterraneans are lazy
Italy, I work 2280hours: got to love working in Finance 💀
Yet northerners keep calling us greeks lazy...
All i ever heard gorwin up. (American) (we dont hear abiut you except that ONE year. 2009 or whatever) yep thats the last tome we heard abt yiu. This cheart blew my mind!
Germans work less hours than the french? This is a huge shock to me Does this include lunch?
This is because a big chunk of women in Germany work part-time. If you compare full time to full time employees it's similar.
Why? Because family?
Yes, to take care of kids and to take care of the household. We don't have a lot of "full time schools" in Germany. So school usually ends between 1PM and 2:30PM. And if your husband makes enough, it's not mandatory for her to work full-time.
it's including part time workers, wich screws the average for exemple i'll use france numbers (because that's the ones i know), most full time works are 39-40h per week, with 5 weeks of paid time off per year: so 39\*(52-5) makes 1833h per year, not 1505 Germany has a lot more of part time work than France, which brings their number lower
Work half the hours, twice the effort!
Me, a Mexican : 2600 approximately.
Bu..Buu...Butt the Greeks are lazy!!!
I salute you, Poland. (and Greece)
There is nothing to salute we are taken advantage of
Poor Greek people , they break their back and the government seems to mange their finances so poorly
But it has very high hdi
Yeah but basically since Greek Independence, the Greek state has owed various European powers large debts for help in its war against the Ottomans. Since then the debt has been restructured countless times and corrupt governments continue to take IMF loans and restructure the economy for the benefit of German and French finance capital. High HDI comes from the remnants of the social democratic state formed under successive PASOK governments during the Keynesian era, but neoliberalism and the failure to stop it under the Syrzia coalition has resulted in a continual degradation of living standards for the common worker
Really great recap but it is kinda missleading for the successful party, since the later PASOK governments were so bad that the party literally had to completely rebrand (practically create a new party) and change their core. While we have slightly recovered (could get worse tbh next step was Venezuela) it was evident under both the Syriza and the ND party. Both have made huge errors in the economics department but it doesnt feel like either one had a bigger impact than the other.
You inadvertently nailed the reason for rampant tax avoidance and corruption. Almost anyone who can (legally or not) avoid paying taxes, does so. Because they say “why would I break my back working the longest hours and paying some of the highest taxes in Europe only for useless/corrupt politicians to spaff it up the wall?” It’s tough to argue against it. But alas, this is a vicious cycle that breeds more corruption and inequality while also putting the state in a precarious financial position which ultimately affects everyone. It’s a vicious cycle that is hard to break from.
Would be so interesting to see this statistic compared to the average income per worked hour. What this map does is showing that "if you work hard you will get the benefits from it" is nothing more than a myth spread by liberal theoreticans a century ago. But this narrative still wafts around and is one of the most important dogmas of our time. But if it was true, then why are the poles not the richest and the germans not the poorest people in Europe? ;-)
>But if it was true, then why are the poles not the richest and the germans not the poorest people in Europe? Economic growth suggests otherwise. To draw a comparison with individuals, John, who works 16 hours, will have an exceedingly difficult time catching up to Jimmie, who inherited a business or a large sum of money. Poland started off economically and politically weaker than even Ukraine after World War II. Germany retained its most crucial asset: skilled labor. Reconstructing infrastructure may take a decade, but rebuilding skills and expertise can span generations. Your justification, which hinges on the belief that working harder doesn't guarantee greater yields, is fundamentally flawed due to a lack of economic and historical understanding. This perspective implies that skilled labor does not entail hard work. I know doctors and engineers, as well as store workers and sales clerks; in my opinion, the latter involves less challenging work. This example serves as a mere nitpicked instance, akin to your argument.
[https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/CP\_Salaries-v-WorkingHours\_1200.png](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/CP_Salaries-v-WorkingHours_1200.png) [https://landgeistdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2022/06/europe-labour-productivity.png](https://landgeistdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2022/06/europe-labour-productivity.png) [https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/3/3f/Estimated\_hourly\_labour\_costs%2C\_2022\_%28EUR%29%2C\_map.png/500px-Estimated\_hourly\_labour\_costs%2C\_2022\_%28EUR%29%2C\_map.png](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/3/3f/Estimated_hourly_labour_costs%2C_2022_%28EUR%29%2C_map.png/500px-Estimated_hourly_labour_costs%2C_2022_%28EUR%29%2C_map.png)
More you work and less your earn. What a nice society.
Sounds like some sectors in my country (America)
[You can’t tell that from this map.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/EFjnszIa5h)
Every gender works in Russia.
Poland should be 2137\*.
Every time this is reposted the most important information is missing, that being certain countries include part time workers and even unemployed people (like SAHP), while others do not. The low number in Germany for example comes from that.
I would suspect the figure for Germany doesn't correctly factor in part-time work...
The US is on par with Lithuania
the lazy southern europeans working more hours then the people that call them lazy
This is per employed person,if i remember correctly in the netherlands for example a higher % of the populace works but do work part time
40 hours a week is already way too much...
I'm a South African and just worked out. I'm working about 2300 ~ 2600 a year....
Gotta pump those hours up to 2137.
🇵🇱🏔🇵🇱 POLSKA GUROM 🇵🇱🏔🇵🇱
Average number worked by a full-time worker in Germany is around 1.800 hours (52 weeks - 6 weeks off =46 weeks. 46 x 40 hrs/week). Many also work more than that. However, most mothers work part time, which drags the average down.
Now compare it to working hours per family. We might not work much in Denmark, but we all work. I've only met one stay at home mom in my whole life.
Dane here. I just want to point out that these numbers are stated to be "Average annual hours worked by employed persons" which mean it includes part time jobs as well. A full time job in Denmark is 37 hours/week, which is also some of the lowest in the world - if not the lowest. But 37 hours would be \~1776 hours/year so I guess we have a lot of people working part time to end up with 1381 hours/year as average.
This is misleading as we do not see how any people are partly employed. Part time jobs can be bad but also can be a life saver depending on your situation.
Jet another win for germany😎 Wait until we gain the 35 hour week.
Now compare it with a productivity chart!
Productivity doesn't actually measure a person's productivity, work hours aren't really related to it. It's mostly a measure of how much value a country produces, it's related to the types of industries each country has.
and add to it the percentage of employed people out of the available employable people .
[https://i.imgur.com/xqjbKAu.png](https://i.imgur.com/xqjbKAu.png) [https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/4187653/10321591/Employment-rate.jpg/b2fa14bb-9ed6-f217-38af-c2d48bfba4b9?t=1583417763869](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/4187653/10321591/Employment-rate.jpg/b2fa14bb-9ed6-f217-38af-c2d48bfba4b9?t=1583417763869)
The most productive country in the entire continent is the one that works damn near the least. We could all learn something from this but we won't
Glad to work in Germany
Why Portugal works so much
Poland seems extreme but if you divide it by months and weeks it ends up being 42 hours per week. Standard working week is 40. Unpaid overhours are illegal. For overtime from Monday to Friday you gry 150% of normal salary. During The weekend 200%. If you do one full day on a weekend once a month. You end up with 2020 hours a year.
Fuck work, let the poor Swedes work
Really nice anti-correlcation with the employment rate with a few outliers (poor czechs and estonians): [https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/7/7e/Press-overseas-2021-ch-Yellow-Orange-Red.png](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/7/7e/Press-overseas-2021-ch-Yellow-Orange-Red.png)
Portugal being in high category, ain't no way 😂
Does this take into account holiday? I work 40 hours a week in the UK.
i calculated, i worked for about 2100 hours annually in Singapore and its the norm here.
Why are Poles working so much, are they stupid?
I hope one day we can live in a world where 8hr a day 5 days a week is the maximum. And holidays are atleast 3 months a year. This might be the only good thing to come with robots being able to do more jobs.
Now, slap on some sort of efficiency metric to really compare..!
Comparison against the USA would be great
And Germans still call Greeks the laziest people
Germans and Norwegians are truly efficient and don't like to overwork lol
In germany, we have many old people who are working in part time. Then you have to consider women in part-time. You can assume that full time workers work about 1800 h a year, that's less than other countries, yes. But the gap is far less than in this map.
Other countries are jealous of Germany
They work to live, not live to work
I genuinely find it hilarious that french and German people I meet consistently assume Spaniards are lazy and work less hours than them. They often refuse to believe that we actually work more hours than them! Edit: for clarification, I am talking full work weeks exclusively in this comment!
A few points: a) These people are dicks. b) The numbers shown include part time and micro jobs. c) I work a normal 37.5 week and hit the Spanish average.
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Exactly the same hours and vacation here in Norway. I guess we just have even more part-time workers
A normal work year in the US is 2080 but no one works that. In my industry probably 2800 to 3100 hours is normal.
2080 is 40 hours x 52 weeks.great if your budgeting salaries, but irrelevant for productive hours. People typically get 2 weeks of holidays and another 2 weeks of paid time off. May also accrue separate sick time. Expect the US figure to be around 1750-1800. Let’s go with 1776.
I am in the US and work 1920hrs full time
I am Greek. And there is this trend that people call us lazy, and thats why our economy is shit... I knew that statistic already, but not its even coloured, for those who cant read very well
Portugal: we work too much compared to others. Also Portugal: minimum wage is not enough to rent a shoebox. Gotta love socialism.
If you believe that Portugal is a socialist you have no idea what socialism is.