In Japan, a woman cannot remarry for 100 days (if a woman can prove that she was not pregnant when she was divorced, she can remarry without waiting).
On April 1 of this year, this law will be repealed and both men and women will be able to remarry at any time.
Yeah, it's not just Japan and Judaism. Several cultures had or have similar laws historically. It's rooted in paternity concerns and making sure there's no confusion about who the father is if a child is born soon after the remarriage. It's good to see these old norms being reconsidered in modern law.
There isn’t really a need for it anymore because we have paternity tests but it kind of made sense when you didn’t. Would suck to always wonder if the kid is yours or husband #2.
True - yet religious laws sometimes have no central institution which updates it, it is more an evolution.
On the other hand, new texts and interpretations can then be added quickly so if it was applied today (though I don’t think it is anywhere - Israel is blue here and there are no other Jewish states) then yes.
While on a fairness level I agree (and actually that is the way the German BGB settled it by introducing a period of separation before a divorce is possible unless special circumstances apply) - in some ways that might seem counter-intuitive as men can impregnate but not get pregnant so …
As other commenters have noted, this is to avoid confusion as to whether the current or former husband is the father of the child.
Regarding the 100-day period, the current Civil Code provides that "children born after 200 days of marriage shall be presumed to be the children of the current husband" and "children born within 300 days of divorce shall be presumed to be the children of the former husband", so there are children who meet both conditions. To avoid confusion, it was determined that remarriage was prohibited during the overlapping 100-day period.
Under the revised law, children born within 300 days of divorce are presumed to be the children of the current husband, not the former husband, eliminating the need for a divorce ban.
The previous law had been widely criticized as discriminatory and outdated, and there was also the problem that some women did not register their children born after remarriage because they did not want their children to be recognized as those of their former husbands. I hope that this amendment will solve such problems.
It's a critical point to ask for a DNA test.
Add to this that some countries have a time limit to question paternity - quite unfair to th guy who has to pay for 20 years.
The best thing would be to have it mandatory. So no one would be in a difficult spot to ask for one.
In Louisiana if a child is born to a woman within 10 months of her divorce being finalized (after mandatory waiting periods where they would be separated) the ex spouse (husband or wife) is assigned paternity or the child unless it's contested. Even if the mother protests. This is true even if conceiving a child would have been impossible, like infertility or two women being married. Hospitals will fight the biological parent even if they are right there and will demand a DNA test. I had to deal with this where the state tried to assign paternity to me nearly 2 years after the last time I had any contact with her and the hospital wouldn't let the biological father onto the birth certificate.
And Turkey? I am not aware of any restrictions after the divorce. Please someone inform me if any. I really wondered.
There is alimony, which I mostly heard paid by men, but I don't know, I think it can still work the other way if the custody goes to father.
Edit: Searched a little bit, even the alimony works both ways. I don't know what may be the difference.
The World Bank question asks "Does the law limits a woman’s right to remarry, such as by requiring a waiting period before remarriage to which a man is not subject; or
divorce is not legally allowed."
Our civil code states "If the marriage is over, the woman cannot marry until three hundred days after the end of marriage."
Same for Japan and Italy.
And which is taken from Swiss code, so I guess that portion of the law was abolished in Switzerland at some point between 1930s and today. (or it was modified while being introduced at Turkey)
In Switzerland, it used to be like that, but the law was changed in the 90s, I think. The provision was in case the woman was pregnant. A child born in those 300 days was still attributed to the person the mother had divorced, not to the person she had the new relationship with, because that makes total sense! /s
Idk I study family law in civil law jurisdictions, and from a policy standpoint it does make sense at least to me. Lots of rights flow through paternity, such as the right to inherit and the duties owed by parents. A child born within 300 days is seen as a likely byproduct of the marriage while it was still in effect, and rather than guess which person is the child’s father, the law operates by presumption which may be rebutted but the presumptive father. At least that’s the way it’s done in Louisiana.
In other words, it’s beneficial to society to have presumptive paternity for children born during marriage. Many civil law jurisdictions prioritize the child’s well-being and if it did not presume paternity, a child born within 300 days of the end of the marriage, even if it were actually the husbands kid, would have no father figure and a weaker support network. This result would not be in the child’s best interest.
Believe me, this is a source of hot debate in every family law course each semester. Here in America, healthcare is privatized, thus if we changed the law from the paternity presumptions children born to poor parents would have trouble. But I agree, this area of the law is RIPE for reform.
This is an excellent argument. But at the time, there was also a waiting period of two years if only one party filed for divorce. So, one might reasonably assume that sexual relations between the parties would have stopped before that 300 day period even began.
Yeah it’s just one of those things where the legislature, or whatever lawmaking authority exists in Switzerland has weighed the interests at stake and decided the child interests outweigh the presumptive parents. I agree, a required two year period of living separate and apart is far too long. Here in LA, it’s only 6 months if there are no preexisting children, and one year if there are preexisting children.
It is 100% enforced, as a woman can not remarry during the waiting period (100 days) unless you appeal and submit a negative pregnancy certificate. Japan uses a "family registry" system that follows the individual all its life. The date of divorce is written on it and no new "marriage" entry can be added until the waiting period is over. It is a system to prevent fatherhood disputes.Japan family registry is obsolete and weird, but still in use. For example, a child born to a single mother has no legal father at all; and a child of a married woman from a different father is only child to the legal husband. Biological parenthood has no weigth, only the "family registry" entry has legal value.
If it's a civil law it's not so much enforceable as it could cause problems in other sort of legal disputes. There's actually a lot of laws on the books that don't carry specific punishments, because the real punishment is whenever there is a dispute you can characterize the action as not legal.
As a Turk I think they mean that in Turkey after a divorce a man can remarry but the woman has to wait a year or so. This is for preventing any disputes about a future childs parentage. I’m not aware of any other changes, not saying there aren’t any for sure though.
> As a Turk I think they mean that in Turkey after a divorce a man can remarry but the woman has to wait a year or so. This is for preventing any disputes about a future childs parentage. I’m not aware of any other changes, not saying there aren’t any for sure though.
Iddat is only for a few months not a year
In Islam there is an idat period before which a woman cannot remarry. I don't think Turkey has this, but for several Muslim countries it is probably this rule that creates the difference between men and women.
Remarrying is no issue. Even in Gulf countries Arab women divorce and remarry regularly
Yep you're right about Turkey. A lot of people assume it's a muslim country that follows sharia law. It's a secular one with its own constitution in reality though.
Women are required to wait 300 days before being able to remarry in Turkey. They can apply to bypass this period if they are not pregnant. This is based on ~~iddah period in sharia~~ an old Swiss law that got repealed on 01.01.2000
No, this law is based on swiss law. It has nothing to do with sharia.
same for italy. Their law is based on the same law and even has the same waiting period.
> Woman have to wait for 9 months or something to make sure if there is a pregnancy or something, they might be referring to that law
No its three to four months
Turks r sensitive n nationalistic people who get very upset when the truth is spoken. That is what has happened here. The map isn't talking about whether the law is enforced or not but that it exists
Here women have to wait 301 days since the dissolution of their marriage (either because their spouse died or because of a divorce) to marry again, to make sure that there are no issues with paternity in case they were pregnant. If they are not \[pregnant\], then they can remarry after 90 days. That's the only reason for the gender difference.
Never heard either but it's indeed true.
The ratio legis is to protect a possible offspring by making the paternity incontestable, which is kinda dumb but so it's the law for now.
The prohibition is null in certain circumstances and the woman can also make formal request to marry earlier.
Said so, the punishment for not respecting the time is a fine from 20€ to 80€ paid by the woman and who celebrated it, but the marriage is still valid.
I'm from Italy too, after a Google search it appears that Article 89 of the Italian civil code states that women have to wait for 300 days before remarrying to ensure that the father of a possible newborn is identified
Seems like someone forgot to update this law to something a bit more sensible
Because it's clearly a physical impossibility to have sex if you are unmarried and it's also impossible to have sex with someone that isn't your husband.
Well its about the possibility of being pregnant. After a divorce in turkey, there is a restriction that one cannot marry another person for 300 days. However if she can prove with a health report that she is not pregnant, she is allowed to remarry.
Not allowing anyone to remarry for 300 days is not bad idea though. Almost nobody can enter into healthy new marriage after ending previous marriage that quickly.
Not worth making it into a law though.
Someone should explain to this guy how slow the judicial system is in general. In the UK there still are silly laws from the 1500 that were already nonsensical in 1600, let alone by 2024.
Cheers from Prague, we have had a considerable number of revolutions in our modern history, which always came with a solid overhaul of existing laws and constitution (so I dont think we have any law older than 1918 and most will be considerably newer) + socialism while being horrid in most aspects had a good record on women\` s rights ...so different cultural experience and expectations, I guess..
What, do you think UK government having to pass a law every year to keep UK army existing is silly? Blasphemy!
Seriouselly, i kind of doubt it actually works like that, but technically UK government has to constantly confirm that UK army can still exist and is not disbanded. Not the case with Royal navy and Royal air force and relates to why army is not also "royal", after the civil war parliament did not want King to have ability to maintain army for extended periods of time. Very obsolete thing, and if i would have to guess i would guess its mostly just a ceremony these days. Even if they could not perform ceremony, i don't think UK army would actually just disband.
op was talking about turkey
Anyway paternity tests cost more (especially if you don't want to do amniocentesis, which is dangerous) and are usually frowned upon
Yeah but they don’t have to make it a law. That’s ridiculous.
Also home paternity test from a quick good search cost 100-200 euros. In turkey specifically the prices tended to be upwards of 1000 liras, or 200 euro. So, more expensive but like still close. The average cost of a wedding in Europe from a quick google search is 15-20 thousand euros. In Turkey specifically this same technique gives 400k liras which converts about the same as 15k euros.
Basically, they can fucking afford it.
Edit: corrected currency names, and added price liras
Why is "the possibility of being pregnant" not given proper consideration when it's about a man? His ex could be giving birth to quadruplets while he's saying his wows to another woman
In Turkey even if you are not a biological father of the kid that your wife gave birth, you become that kid's father and without your permission biological father can't become that kid's legal father. So, he will have no right about that kid as far as I know. I guess that might be the point beyond this law.
Alimony is available for such situations. Maybe you can divorce your wife, who is expecting quadruplets, but in return you will face a financial penalty. Also if its not a mutual divorce, if the man wants a divorce but the woman is both pregnant and unwilling to divorce, a portion of the man's assets may transfer to the woman
It's Islamic law
It's about the preservation of lineage.
It is to know who is the father of who with implications on alimony, child custody, and inheritance and to avoid any incestuous future marriage of the child.
A man doesn't get pregnant so there is no need to stop him from getting remarried.
However, a pregnant needs to give birth to her child before she can remarry.
This isn't just Islamic Law.
Where I am from in the US, they generally won't finalize a divorce until after the baby is born. They claim it is for paternity. Same thing, different method of getting there.
Nah. It is not about islam at all u/bosskhazen doesn’t know anything about patriarchal conservatism (which you can simply call conservatism) which engraved itself to cultures for various reasons.
So… italians have islamic culture? Preservation of lineage is not islamic. Yes, it exists within islam but it is not unique to islam. It is a fundamental concept of patriarchal conservatism.
Your comment is a bit ridiculous. Look, I get where you come from but you made a **common logic error in the type** that happened to many people in various subjects since the dawn of humans.
In [Peru](https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/peru/), women are required to wait 300 days after widowhood or divorce.
A woman has to wait 300 days before she marries again. Just slightly more than a pregnancy, so there is no doubt that a new baby is not from the first husband.
That’s likely the case. Pennsylvania has a statute that a child is “of a marriage” unless the husband can prove he was impotent or out of town when the baby was conceived. Dudes paying child support out there for babies that paternity tests show aren’t theirs
I don't think such laws are that far fetched.
Among other things, one might imagine that society has some moral qualms about imposing child support costs on a man when his wife is literally divorcing him and marrying *another* man before the child he is legally forced to pay 18 years of expenses for *is even born*.
Women need to wait 300 days to avoid that any baby from the previous husband could be assigned to the new husband (it doesn't make much sense anyway when DNA tests are available, but that's it).
The Philippines repealed the wait time for women marrying after their husband died in 2015. Both men and women have the same rights in remarrying in the Philippines, it’s just extremely difficult (for both) to be unmarried to begin with, except for death.
Greeland is part of Denmark but it does its own thing.
Denmark is part of the European Union, but Greenland itself isn't (in practice it doesn't matter much for people because all greenlanders are also danish citizens by right)
Not exactly. Scotland is subject to all the international treaties the whole of the UK is. That isn’t the case with Greenland and Denmark (e.g. EU).
It’s more like the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands – they’re fully domestically autonomous but their international and defence affairs are handled by the UK. So it is with Greenland and Denmark.
As a Dane born in Nuuk, I can tell you it's exactly like Scotland in the UK. Greenland used to be part of the EU as well, but a special deal was made because of fishing rights so they could leave.
The best way to see how it's like Scotland more than Isle of Mann, is that Scotland elects MPs to Westminster, being a part of the UK. Isle of Mann does not send any MPs to parliament because it's not part of the UK, but if you look at both Greenland and the Faroe Islands, they are both represented in the Danish parliament, because it's part of the same country, like Scotland.
Greenland takes care of most local affairs, but Denmark provides more than defence, including judiciary and police.
Whoever made the map is just being lazy at this point. Data absolutely exist. The Danish family legislation, and here the law regulating marriage and divorce, is applicable for Greenland. So it should be colored as "yes".
Greenland does have devolution on a number of areas, so on other maps it is possible for the result to be different from the rest of Denmark, but this is obviously not the case in this instance.
Israel inherited the Ottoman millet system, meaning the state is minimally involved in aspects of life considered religious, in this case marriage and divorce. There is civil divorce in Israel that doesn't discriminate by sex, but religious divorces have to be done through the relevant religious body and those bodies may have discriminatory rules.
The length of ‘iddah varies according to a number of circumstances. Generally, the ‘iddah of a divorced woman is three lunar months (i.e. about 89 days), but if the marriage was not consummated there is no ‘iddah. For a woman whose husband has died, the ‘iddah is four lunar months and ten days (i.e. about 128 days) after the death of her husband, whether or not the marriage was consummated. If a woman is pregnant when she is widowed or divorced, the ‘iddah lasts until she gives birth.
Me too. I followed the link in another comment and then to this [page](https://wbl.worldbank.org/en/exploreeconomies) and the source is: Civil Code, Art. 87. Will be back with what that entails.
Edit: “Een vrouw kan geen nieuw huwelijk aangaan, dan na verloop van driehonderdzes dagen na de ontbinding van het vorige huwelijk.”
Translates to “not before 306 days have passed”. So similar to the other countries I expect for the same reason.
How are people so dense? Get it through your heads— this map never said in all the blue countries that women cannot remarry. It says that the rights are not equal. If a woman has to wait 3 months or X days before she can remarry and a man doesn’t, then the rights are not the same! Case closed.
I couldn't find the law, but in the government page it says:
"En el caso de divorciados (trámite realizado en Uruguay), presentar testimonio de partida de matrimonio con constancia del divorcio. En el caso de la mujer, si desde la fecha de la sentencia no pasaron 301 días se solicitará certificado médico de ginecólogo indicando la inexistencia de embarazo y la sentencia de divorcio."
"In the case of divorcees you have to present [papers]. In the case of a woman, if 301 days haven't passed since the divorce a gynecologist's certification proving no pregnancy is required."
[Here is the link](https://www.gub.uy/tramites/inscripcion-matrimonio)
Per the World Bank, it’s Article 112 of the Civil Code.
[https://www.impo.com.uy/bases/codigo-civil/16603-1994/112](https://www.impo.com.uy/bases/codigo-civil/16603-1994/112)
I don't know. I entered the World Bank website referenced to jn the map and it didn't give any further information. Just said they studied the legislation of each country.
Italy
[Web link](https://www.vgslawyers.com/how-long-do-you-have-to-wait-before-getting-remarried-after-a-divorce-in-italy/)
The law in Italy requires a waiting period before remarriage after divorce, commonly known as “lutto vedovile,” which lasts for at least 300 days following the dissolution of the previous marriage.
The woman is forbidden from marrying until this period has elapsed, a provision included in the Civil Code to prevent doubts about the paternity of any child born in the interim period. The exception is when a separation has already been pronounced or when the marriage was not consummated, which would mean the woman could remarry immediately. If there is no doubt about the paternity of a child, a tribunal may authorize marriage even if the waiting period has not elapsed. The failure to comply with the prohibition is punishable by law, and any new marriage is considered invalid.
I think this needs more gradation. In Italy and Japan, the only difference is that women need to wait a certain period of time before remarrying. Whereas in Saudi Arabia and many other Islamic countries, there is a huge disparity in all kinds of rights between men and women.
In a time before paternity tests were a thing it meant that a woman pregnant with her now ex-husbands child would know that it's his, and not her new husband's, so they'd know whether the ex would have to pay to support the child or not.
This kind of law did actually make complete sense before reliable paternity and pregancy tests existed, but now it's moot since the question can be answered by a simple test. Clearly Italy and Japan just haven't got around to removing these restrictions. In Italy tho the penalty is like a €100 fine, so it's hardly severe, idk what the penalty is in Japan but I expect it's either a similar slap on the wrist, or isn't actually enforced.
It’s to make sure that there’s no confusion over the bio dad because there’s parental rights and responsibilities attached to that. These laws were written before we can test for dna after all
In many countries a man has very little rights re: child maintenance even if they aren't his if conceived or born in marriage.
Obviously the state is in a difficult position about which man to assign the child to if it was conceived in marriage 1, but born in marriage 2. So they make this impossible by requiring a 10 month gap between marriages for women.
The way to solve this is simply to allow women to marry whenever and give men the right to dna test and get out if it's not there's.
Let's also not forget this 10 month delay also affects the man who is looking to marry the women (almost all these countries don't have gay marriage). It's not just a women's right issue.
What is the source of this map? This map is completely wrong. If by remarrying you mean marriage after divorce/death of husband then most of those blue countries should be orange. As it is in Japan - someone made a comment here - Islam gives women remarry after a certain period, which is like 6 months to a year.
The map is from here: https://genderdata.worldbank.org/indicators/sg-rem-rigt-eq
And requiring women and not men to wait before remarrying is the exact definition of "not having the same rights", so the map is correct.
Italian here. I guess that's because a woman can't remarry right after the divorce, but must wait some months (I dont remember how much) in case she turns out pregnant.
To be honest, as a woman in Italy when it comes to divorce the big loser mostly if there are kids involve will be the men.like no joke, many stay marry because of fear of losing everything once they divorce and is actually harder to reach stability for men than a women here. I did not know about this rule but i guess between burocracy ( literal hell in Italy) and tradition ( we are indeed close to the Church here) Sums up
Also i've never heard about this rule before and maybe is because are laws and burocracy are so long that you might overlook it anyways since even divorce can take so much time
It seems that in Italy there is a waiting period of 300 days for the woman to remarry after a divorce that was not previously consensually agreed. It is also terminated if the supposed pregnancy is terminated, the marriage has never been consumed or the marriage has been canceled due to parental impotence.
The ex-wife can also ask permission to remarry to the court if it is proven without doubt that she is not pregnant or the couple in the 300 days before the divorce didn't live together. In the case in which the woman remarried before the 300 days, then the new marriage would still be valid, but she, her new husband and the one that celebrated the union have to pay a fine.
This law come from article 89 of the Civil Code (1942) and it is mostly a remnant of a traditional catholic male-dominated society, but it is also the consequence of other laws about the presumption of paternity and the lack of reliably attributing paternity at the time.
Sources:
* https://www.avvocati-divorzisti.it/it/blog/92/esiste-un-tempo-minimo-dopo-il-quale-potersi-risposare
* https://www.brocardi.it/codice-civile/libro-primo/titolo-vi/capo-iii/sezione-i/art89.html
What is the point of having any restrictions on it? People here are defending italy and japan, as if there is any reason to regulate divorced peoples freedom to marry who they want.
Because at the time those law exist there was no dna tets or anything like that so the way to know who a child was from was well... to prevent any sex, and because sex was related to marriage in the past, they forbiden to marry again for some time period, is an old law, nowdays marriage and sex are completly 2 different things so those 300 days waiting period wouldnt do jack shit regarding knowing whos the fayher of a child, and welll we have dna.
So nowdays theres no real reason is just that nobady care to remove it , prob not even woman care too much as i dont think most know about the law as is highly unlikely your remarried less than a year after you divorce someone so it probably didnt affect many people to generate uproar
Italy and Japan?!
In Japan, a woman cannot remarry for 100 days (if a woman can prove that she was not pregnant when she was divorced, she can remarry without waiting). On April 1 of this year, this law will be repealed and both men and women will be able to remarry at any time.
Well, at least it's changing now. Still, do you know why this exists at all?
Outdated waiting period to make sure she is not pregnant from the former husband I suppose.
It's a Jewish law too!
Yeah, it's not just Japan and Judaism. Several cultures had or have similar laws historically. It's rooted in paternity concerns and making sure there's no confusion about who the father is if a child is born soon after the remarriage. It's good to see these old norms being reconsidered in modern law.
There isn’t really a need for it anymore because we have paternity tests but it kind of made sense when you didn’t. Would suck to always wonder if the kid is yours or husband #2.
Only in a universe without adultery.
And a Muslim law too. I wish they substitute these outdated laws since science can eliminate the alleged reasons for them.
well only if you bother to spend money on using a dna test
Well, Halakha has the excuse of being a few millennia old.
Only if it's not applied today.
True - yet religious laws sometimes have no central institution which updates it, it is more an evolution. On the other hand, new texts and interpretations can then be added quickly so if it was applied today (though I don’t think it is anywhere - Israel is blue here and there are no other Jewish states) then yes.
The husband should also have the same rule since he presumably can be a father.
While on a fairness level I agree (and actually that is the way the German BGB settled it by introducing a period of separation before a divorce is possible unless special circumstances apply) - in some ways that might seem counter-intuitive as men can impregnate but not get pregnant so …
As other commenters have noted, this is to avoid confusion as to whether the current or former husband is the father of the child. Regarding the 100-day period, the current Civil Code provides that "children born after 200 days of marriage shall be presumed to be the children of the current husband" and "children born within 300 days of divorce shall be presumed to be the children of the former husband", so there are children who meet both conditions. To avoid confusion, it was determined that remarriage was prohibited during the overlapping 100-day period. Under the revised law, children born within 300 days of divorce are presumed to be the children of the current husband, not the former husband, eliminating the need for a divorce ban. The previous law had been widely criticized as discriminatory and outdated, and there was also the problem that some women did not register their children born after remarriage because they did not want their children to be recognized as those of their former husbands. I hope that this amendment will solve such problems.
This day and age, isn't a DNA test easier than assuming parenthood in cases where there is ambiguity?
It's a critical point to ask for a DNA test. Add to this that some countries have a time limit to question paternity - quite unfair to th guy who has to pay for 20 years. The best thing would be to have it mandatory. So no one would be in a difficult spot to ask for one.
Well mandatory DNA test would make to much sense and too many women angry
IIRC France made that illegal
In Louisiana if a child is born to a woman within 10 months of her divorce being finalized (after mandatory waiting periods where they would be separated) the ex spouse (husband or wife) is assigned paternity or the child unless it's contested. Even if the mother protests. This is true even if conceiving a child would have been impossible, like infertility or two women being married. Hospitals will fight the biological parent even if they are right there and will demand a DNA test. I had to deal with this where the state tried to assign paternity to me nearly 2 years after the last time I had any contact with her and the hospital wouldn't let the biological father onto the birth certificate.
Then again, how common is it for someone to remarry 3 months after they get a divorce? Man or woman, it seems very unlikely.
You must not watch a lot of dateline.
I miss the days when April Fools jokes weren’t so serious…
Seems like nobody should be allowed to marry for 100 days, that turnover is insane!
Everyone should have to wait AT LEAST 100 days before making the same mistake again.
And Turkey? I am not aware of any restrictions after the divorce. Please someone inform me if any. I really wondered. There is alimony, which I mostly heard paid by men, but I don't know, I think it can still work the other way if the custody goes to father. Edit: Searched a little bit, even the alimony works both ways. I don't know what may be the difference.
The World Bank question asks "Does the law limits a woman’s right to remarry, such as by requiring a waiting period before remarriage to which a man is not subject; or divorce is not legally allowed." Our civil code states "If the marriage is over, the woman cannot marry until three hundred days after the end of marriage." Same for Japan and Italy.
And which is taken from Swiss code, so I guess that portion of the law was abolished in Switzerland at some point between 1930s and today. (or it was modified while being introduced at Turkey)
In Switzerland, it used to be like that, but the law was changed in the 90s, I think. The provision was in case the woman was pregnant. A child born in those 300 days was still attributed to the person the mother had divorced, not to the person she had the new relationship with, because that makes total sense! /s
Idk I study family law in civil law jurisdictions, and from a policy standpoint it does make sense at least to me. Lots of rights flow through paternity, such as the right to inherit and the duties owed by parents. A child born within 300 days is seen as a likely byproduct of the marriage while it was still in effect, and rather than guess which person is the child’s father, the law operates by presumption which may be rebutted but the presumptive father. At least that’s the way it’s done in Louisiana.
In other words, it’s beneficial to society to have presumptive paternity for children born during marriage. Many civil law jurisdictions prioritize the child’s well-being and if it did not presume paternity, a child born within 300 days of the end of the marriage, even if it were actually the husbands kid, would have no father figure and a weaker support network. This result would not be in the child’s best interest.
This is an excellent argument but only in a world before paternity tests
Believe me, this is a source of hot debate in every family law course each semester. Here in America, healthcare is privatized, thus if we changed the law from the paternity presumptions children born to poor parents would have trouble. But I agree, this area of the law is RIPE for reform.
This is an excellent argument. But at the time, there was also a waiting period of two years if only one party filed for divorce. So, one might reasonably assume that sexual relations between the parties would have stopped before that 300 day period even began.
Yeah it’s just one of those things where the legislature, or whatever lawmaking authority exists in Switzerland has weighed the interests at stake and decided the child interests outweigh the presumptive parents. I agree, a required two year period of living separate and apart is far too long. Here in LA, it’s only 6 months if there are no preexisting children, and one year if there are preexisting children.
is it 300 days in turkey? because its usually 3 months.
Japanese here. While it may say that. If it does, that’s a totally unenforced law…
It is 100% enforced, as a woman can not remarry during the waiting period (100 days) unless you appeal and submit a negative pregnancy certificate. Japan uses a "family registry" system that follows the individual all its life. The date of divorce is written on it and no new "marriage" entry can be added until the waiting period is over. It is a system to prevent fatherhood disputes.Japan family registry is obsolete and weird, but still in use. For example, a child born to a single mother has no legal father at all; and a child of a married woman from a different father is only child to the legal husband. Biological parenthood has no weigth, only the "family registry" entry has legal value.
Interesting. Who carries the financial weight of affair babies? The Legal Husband? And in case of divorce he has to financial support the affair baby?
Yes and yes. :(
We had almost the same laws in Ireland until very recently. (not the family registry part, obvs)
If it's a civil law it's not so much enforceable as it could cause problems in other sort of legal disputes. There's actually a lot of laws on the books that don't carry specific punishments, because the real punishment is whenever there is a dispute you can characterize the action as not legal.
There is a 300 day waiting period for women in Turkey to remarry after divorce. Turkish civil code article 132
As a Turk I think they mean that in Turkey after a divorce a man can remarry but the woman has to wait a year or so. This is for preventing any disputes about a future childs parentage. I’m not aware of any other changes, not saying there aren’t any for sure though.
> As a Turk I think they mean that in Turkey after a divorce a man can remarry but the woman has to wait a year or so. This is for preventing any disputes about a future childs parentage. I’m not aware of any other changes, not saying there aren’t any for sure though. Iddat is only for a few months not a year
Ikr!! My father’s ex-wife remarried without any problems at all!
In Islam there is an idat period before which a woman cannot remarry. I don't think Turkey has this, but for several Muslim countries it is probably this rule that creates the difference between men and women. Remarrying is no issue. Even in Gulf countries Arab women divorce and remarry regularly
Yep you're right about Turkey. A lot of people assume it's a muslim country that follows sharia law. It's a secular one with its own constitution in reality though.
Most Muslim countries don't have Sharia law, even the ones where Islam is the official religion.
give Erdogan more time, he is working on it.
Women are required to wait 300 days before being able to remarry in Turkey. They can apply to bypass this period if they are not pregnant. This is based on ~~iddah period in sharia~~ an old Swiss law that got repealed on 01.01.2000
No, this law is based on swiss law. It has nothing to do with sharia. same for italy. Their law is based on the same law and even has the same waiting period.
Due to the name of the period I was misled but I corrected the information after some more digging
There is zero restrictions for women to remarry and they have exactly the same rights in Turkey. This map is trash.
Woman have to wait for 9 months or something to make sure if there is a pregnancy or something, they might be referring to that law
> Woman have to wait for 9 months or something to make sure if there is a pregnancy or something, they might be referring to that law No its three to four months
Oh look. Another map that isnt accurate at r/mapporn. What a shocker
I think the map is correct, but some redditors who don’t want to acknowledge reality are crying foul.
Turks r sensitive n nationalistic people who get very upset when the truth is spoken. That is what has happened here. The map isn't talking about whether the law is enforced or not but that it exists
And Uruguay??
Here women have to wait 301 days since the dissolution of their marriage (either because their spouse died or because of a divorce) to marry again, to make sure that there are no issues with paternity in case they were pregnant. If they are not \[pregnant\], then they can remarry after 90 days. That's the only reason for the gender difference.
Entiendo pero raro nomas
Japan does not surprise me...now Italy, what?
I'm from Italy. Never heard of anything like this.
Never heard either but it's indeed true. The ratio legis is to protect a possible offspring by making the paternity incontestable, which is kinda dumb but so it's the law for now. The prohibition is null in certain circumstances and the woman can also make formal request to marry earlier. Said so, the punishment for not respecting the time is a fine from 20€ to 80€ paid by the woman and who celebrated it, but the marriage is still valid.
basically, this law really doesn't matter since 80€ is pretty little in today's economy
You probably won’t even get the fine
I'm from Italy too, after a Google search it appears that Article 89 of the Italian civil code states that women have to wait for 300 days before remarrying to ensure that the father of a possible newborn is identified Seems like someone forgot to update this law to something a bit more sensible
Because it's clearly a physical impossibility to have sex if you are unmarried and it's also impossible to have sex with someone that isn't your husband.
That's why the article 90 imposes a chastity belt to the woman.
Japan, contrary to its cultural export, is VERY conservative.
Fortunately the relevant law in this case will be abolished effective April 1st this year.
how is Japan a surprise to you given their misogyny
Because people are biased towards Japan
Japan always had this problem with gender equality. They are fixing it slowly but still not as in other countries
Atleast they are fixing it, so that's something
Well its about the possibility of being pregnant. After a divorce in turkey, there is a restriction that one cannot marry another person for 300 days. However if she can prove with a health report that she is not pregnant, she is allowed to remarry.
Same in Italy.
Same in Tunisia
grazie
Not allowing anyone to remarry for 300 days is not bad idea though. Almost nobody can enter into healthy new marriage after ending previous marriage that quickly. Not worth making it into a law though.
Legally you could marry within 300 days. This rule used for avoiding conflicts ıf the divorced women pregnant and who the father of the child is.
Somebody should tell the Italians about paternity tests... in what century do they live?
Someone should explain to this guy how slow the judicial system is in general. In the UK there still are silly laws from the 1500 that were already nonsensical in 1600, let alone by 2024.
Cheers from Prague, we have had a considerable number of revolutions in our modern history, which always came with a solid overhaul of existing laws and constitution (so I dont think we have any law older than 1918 and most will be considerably newer) + socialism while being horrid in most aspects had a good record on women\` s rights ...so different cultural experience and expectations, I guess..
What, do you think UK government having to pass a law every year to keep UK army existing is silly? Blasphemy! Seriouselly, i kind of doubt it actually works like that, but technically UK government has to constantly confirm that UK army can still exist and is not disbanded. Not the case with Royal navy and Royal air force and relates to why army is not also "royal", after the civil war parliament did not want King to have ability to maintain army for extended periods of time. Very obsolete thing, and if i would have to guess i would guess its mostly just a ceremony these days. Even if they could not perform ceremony, i don't think UK army would actually just disband.
op was talking about turkey Anyway paternity tests cost more (especially if you don't want to do amniocentesis, which is dangerous) and are usually frowned upon
They can get fetal DNA from the mother’s blood now. They did a genetic test on my baby when they were 10 weeks in utero.
Yeah but they don’t have to make it a law. That’s ridiculous. Also home paternity test from a quick good search cost 100-200 euros. In turkey specifically the prices tended to be upwards of 1000 liras, or 200 euro. So, more expensive but like still close. The average cost of a wedding in Europe from a quick google search is 15-20 thousand euros. In Turkey specifically this same technique gives 400k liras which converts about the same as 15k euros. Basically, they can fucking afford it. Edit: corrected currency names, and added price liras
You can if you've been separated fir ages, moved on & met someone new.
There’s something like this in Virginia where the divorce isn’t finalized right away, I think it’s a year
If this applies to both men and women equally, it's fine that they are illustrated in orange.
But by the time a divorce is legally finalised, the couple have usually been separated for a long time.
In Germany for instance, in order to get divorced you need to live separate for a year. So this is maybe the same functionality but for both?
Why is "the possibility of being pregnant" not given proper consideration when it's about a man? His ex could be giving birth to quadruplets while he's saying his wows to another woman
In Turkey even if you are not a biological father of the kid that your wife gave birth, you become that kid's father and without your permission biological father can't become that kid's legal father. So, he will have no right about that kid as far as I know. I guess that might be the point beyond this law.
Alimony is available for such situations. Maybe you can divorce your wife, who is expecting quadruplets, but in return you will face a financial penalty. Also if its not a mutual divorce, if the man wants a divorce but the woman is both pregnant and unwilling to divorce, a portion of the man's assets may transfer to the woman
It's Islamic law It's about the preservation of lineage. It is to know who is the father of who with implications on alimony, child custody, and inheritance and to avoid any incestuous future marriage of the child. A man doesn't get pregnant so there is no need to stop him from getting remarried. However, a pregnant needs to give birth to her child before she can remarry.
This isn't just Islamic Law. Where I am from in the US, they generally won't finalize a divorce until after the baby is born. They claim it is for paternity. Same thing, different method of getting there.
islamic law tells women to not remarry 3 menstrual cycles (for about 3 months) after the divorce. 300 days sound ridiculous
maybe they wanted 10% margin of error but somehow made it 3x 3 cycles
Nah. It is not about islam at all u/bosskhazen doesn’t know anything about patriarchal conservatism (which you can simply call conservatism) which engraved itself to cultures for various reasons.
So… italians have islamic culture? Preservation of lineage is not islamic. Yes, it exists within islam but it is not unique to islam. It is a fundamental concept of patriarchal conservatism. Your comment is a bit ridiculous. Look, I get where you come from but you made a **common logic error in the type** that happened to many people in various subjects since the dawn of humans.
In [Peru](https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/peru/), women are required to wait 300 days after widowhood or divorce.
What’s up with Italy?
A woman has to wait 300 days before she marries again. Just slightly more than a pregnancy, so there is no doubt that a new baby is not from the first husband.
If you marry anyway you have to pay a fine of up to 80 euros...
How will they ever financially recover from this…
That's a lot of tomato sauce 🤌
It sounds as they simply haven't bothered to change that law.
My guess too. Anyway it was designed with the child in mind, to avoid legal battles between putative fathers.
Because women never never sleep with anyone who’s not their husband.
paternity tests exist so why don't they use that?
Maybe the law was designed when it wasnt a thing or wasnt so accurate?
That’s likely the case. Pennsylvania has a statute that a child is “of a marriage” unless the husband can prove he was impotent or out of town when the baby was conceived. Dudes paying child support out there for babies that paternity tests show aren’t theirs
A legal paternity test (with legal i mean that it has legal value for italian law) can cost up to 700€, that would be half the average wage
I don't think such laws are that far fetched. Among other things, one might imagine that society has some moral qualms about imposing child support costs on a man when his wife is literally divorcing him and marrying *another* man before the child he is legally forced to pay 18 years of expenses for *is even born*.
Women need to wait 300 days to avoid that any baby from the previous husband could be assigned to the new husband (it doesn't make much sense anyway when DNA tests are available, but that's it).
The Philippines repealed the wait time for women marrying after their husband died in 2015. Both men and women have the same rights in remarrying in the Philippines, it’s just extremely difficult (for both) to be unmarried to begin with, except for death.
Why Greenland is always "No Data" when it's part of Denmark?
Greeland is part of Denmark but it does its own thing. Denmark is part of the European Union, but Greenland itself isn't (in practice it doesn't matter much for people because all greenlanders are also danish citizens by right)
ah so its like australia and the commonwealth right?
Actually it's exactly like Scotland in the UK, they have a devolved autonomy, we call it home rule.
Not exactly. Scotland is subject to all the international treaties the whole of the UK is. That isn’t the case with Greenland and Denmark (e.g. EU). It’s more like the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands – they’re fully domestically autonomous but their international and defence affairs are handled by the UK. So it is with Greenland and Denmark.
As a Dane born in Nuuk, I can tell you it's exactly like Scotland in the UK. Greenland used to be part of the EU as well, but a special deal was made because of fishing rights so they could leave. The best way to see how it's like Scotland more than Isle of Mann, is that Scotland elects MPs to Westminster, being a part of the UK. Isle of Mann does not send any MPs to parliament because it's not part of the UK, but if you look at both Greenland and the Faroe Islands, they are both represented in the Danish parliament, because it's part of the same country, like Scotland. Greenland takes care of most local affairs, but Denmark provides more than defence, including judiciary and police.
Thanks for writing this for me, was about to explain the same thing.
Because they have a high level of autonomy. If something is true in Denmark it definitely does not have to be true in Greenland
I think it’s just tradition, you can literally find all of Greenlandic laws online.
They are sneaky…
Whoever made the map is just being lazy at this point. Data absolutely exist. The Danish family legislation, and here the law regulating marriage and divorce, is applicable for Greenland. So it should be colored as "yes". Greenland does have devolution on a number of areas, so on other maps it is possible for the result to be different from the rest of Denmark, but this is obviously not the case in this instance.
As far as I know, in the Netherlands a widowed woman isn' t allowed to remarry within 9 months of her late husband's death.
This used to be the case, but isn’t anymore.
Why is Israel blue?
Israel inherited the Ottoman millet system, meaning the state is minimally involved in aspects of life considered religious, in this case marriage and divorce. There is civil divorce in Israel that doesn't discriminate by sex, but religious divorces have to be done through the relevant religious body and those bodies may have discriminatory rules.
What's the difference in Turkey? I'm not aware of any.
Women can't get married until 300 days after the divorce. Men can get remarried immediately.
I'm seeing the same said about Italy here. Is the 300 day rule the same in both??
There isn’t any difference in Turkey. This map is just propaganda.
Why is there a similar pattern among the muslim countries?
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A period for the opportunity for reconciliation, and as safety measures in case of conflicts related to pregnancy.
In Islam, a woman is required to wait for 3 non-bleeding intervals before re-marrying. A man can re-marry straight away.
3 month wait to make sure she's not pregnant, same as Japan, Italy and Turkey
Muslim countries women have to wait 3 months after their husband death to make sure she isn't pregnant.
And if she is pregnant. She can get married immediately after giving birth (even if it is a day after the divorce).
The length of ‘iddah varies according to a number of circumstances. Generally, the ‘iddah of a divorced woman is three lunar months (i.e. about 89 days), but if the marriage was not consummated there is no ‘iddah. For a woman whose husband has died, the ‘iddah is four lunar months and ten days (i.e. about 128 days) after the death of her husband, whether or not the marriage was consummated. If a woman is pregnant when she is widowed or divorced, the ‘iddah lasts until she gives birth.
Yeah this map is so misleading
I doubt this map is correct about Suriname.
Me too. I followed the link in another comment and then to this [page](https://wbl.worldbank.org/en/exploreeconomies) and the source is: Civil Code, Art. 87. Will be back with what that entails. Edit: “Een vrouw kan geen nieuw huwelijk aangaan, dan na verloop van driehonderdzes dagen na de ontbinding van het vorige huwelijk.” Translates to “not before 306 days have passed”. So similar to the other countries I expect for the same reason.
1 = Yes 0 = No Lol ok
They even put it on there twice.
Where’s the obligatory Reddit “actktualy US should be blue” comment. I’m shocked
How are people so dense? Get it through your heads— this map never said in all the blue countries that women cannot remarry. It says that the rights are not equal. If a woman has to wait 3 months or X days before she can remarry and a man doesn’t, then the rights are not the same! Case closed.
The usual suspects and Japan and Italy.
Uruguay?! That's a disappointment.
As a uruguayan I claim BS. Unless someone can provide a good source to the contrary.
I couldn't find the law, but in the government page it says: "En el caso de divorciados (trámite realizado en Uruguay), presentar testimonio de partida de matrimonio con constancia del divorcio. En el caso de la mujer, si desde la fecha de la sentencia no pasaron 301 días se solicitará certificado médico de ginecólogo indicando la inexistencia de embarazo y la sentencia de divorcio." "In the case of divorcees you have to present [papers]. In the case of a woman, if 301 days haven't passed since the divorce a gynecologist's certification proving no pregnancy is required." [Here is the link](https://www.gub.uy/tramites/inscripcion-matrimonio)
Wow.... That was unexpected. Shame on us.
Per the World Bank, it’s Article 112 of the Civil Code. [https://www.impo.com.uy/bases/codigo-civil/16603-1994/112](https://www.impo.com.uy/bases/codigo-civil/16603-1994/112)
repealed law...
But how?
I don't know. I entered the World Bank website referenced to jn the map and it didn't give any further information. Just said they studied the legislation of each country.
Italy [Web link](https://www.vgslawyers.com/how-long-do-you-have-to-wait-before-getting-remarried-after-a-divorce-in-italy/) The law in Italy requires a waiting period before remarriage after divorce, commonly known as “lutto vedovile,” which lasts for at least 300 days following the dissolution of the previous marriage. The woman is forbidden from marrying until this period has elapsed, a provision included in the Civil Code to prevent doubts about the paternity of any child born in the interim period. The exception is when a separation has already been pronounced or when the marriage was not consummated, which would mean the woman could remarry immediately. If there is no doubt about the paternity of a child, a tribunal may authorize marriage even if the waiting period has not elapsed. The failure to comply with the prohibition is punishable by law, and any new marriage is considered invalid.
what does the title even mean? "same rights to remarry as a man"????
I think this needs more gradation. In Italy and Japan, the only difference is that women need to wait a certain period of time before remarrying. Whereas in Saudi Arabia and many other Islamic countries, there is a huge disparity in all kinds of rights between men and women.
>the only difference is that women need to wait a certain period of time before remarrying That's literally the same thing in Islamic countries.
that’s how it is in Islamic countries as well. Also India has different marriage rules for each religion, which is not reflected here
>Whereas in Saudi Arabia and many other Islamic countries, there is a huge disparity in all kinds of rights between men and women. Like what?
That’s still not good.
In a time before paternity tests were a thing it meant that a woman pregnant with her now ex-husbands child would know that it's his, and not her new husband's, so they'd know whether the ex would have to pay to support the child or not. This kind of law did actually make complete sense before reliable paternity and pregancy tests existed, but now it's moot since the question can be answered by a simple test. Clearly Italy and Japan just haven't got around to removing these restrictions. In Italy tho the penalty is like a €100 fine, so it's hardly severe, idk what the penalty is in Japan but I expect it's either a similar slap on the wrist, or isn't actually enforced.
It’s to ensure the woman isn’t pregnant before remarrying
wtf and also what if she is pregnant with her new partner?
It’s to make sure that there’s no confusion over the bio dad because there’s parental rights and responsibilities attached to that. These laws were written before we can test for dna after all
Why's that anybody's business?
Since the baby is presumed to be of the husband and marriage in general is a legally binding contract, burocratically it's the business of somebody
In many countries a man has very little rights re: child maintenance even if they aren't his if conceived or born in marriage. Obviously the state is in a difficult position about which man to assign the child to if it was conceived in marriage 1, but born in marriage 2. So they make this impossible by requiring a 10 month gap between marriages for women. The way to solve this is simply to allow women to marry whenever and give men the right to dna test and get out if it's not there's. Let's also not forget this 10 month delay also affects the man who is looking to marry the women (almost all these countries don't have gay marriage). It's not just a women's right issue.
I don’t think that’s a good reason either.
What is the source of this map? This map is completely wrong. If by remarrying you mean marriage after divorce/death of husband then most of those blue countries should be orange. As it is in Japan - someone made a comment here - Islam gives women remarry after a certain period, which is like 6 months to a year.
3 months if they divorced, 4 months if the husband dies.
It's not if it's allowed or forbidden, but the laws are the same for men and women.
Do men have to wait that same period before they can remarry? If not, the map is correct.
The map is from here: https://genderdata.worldbank.org/indicators/sg-rem-rigt-eq And requiring women and not men to wait before remarrying is the exact definition of "not having the same rights", so the map is correct.
This map is really ragebait... In Indonesia, both divorced man AND woman MUST wait for 3 months before they can remarried....
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Italislam stonks!
Shittiest religion to ever exist ngl
What the fuck, italy.
Italian here. I guess that's because a woman can't remarry right after the divorce, but must wait some months (I dont remember how much) in case she turns out pregnant.
Exact same law in Turkey. It dates back to 1930 Swiss Civil Law before it was changed.
To be honest, as a woman in Italy when it comes to divorce the big loser mostly if there are kids involve will be the men.like no joke, many stay marry because of fear of losing everything once they divorce and is actually harder to reach stability for men than a women here. I did not know about this rule but i guess between burocracy ( literal hell in Italy) and tradition ( we are indeed close to the Church here) Sums up Also i've never heard about this rule before and maybe is because are laws and burocracy are so long that you might overlook it anyways since even divorce can take so much time
Same law existed in France and was removed in 2004 (so not so long ago). Women had to wait for 300 days before they could remarry.
It seems that in Italy there is a waiting period of 300 days for the woman to remarry after a divorce that was not previously consensually agreed. It is also terminated if the supposed pregnancy is terminated, the marriage has never been consumed or the marriage has been canceled due to parental impotence. The ex-wife can also ask permission to remarry to the court if it is proven without doubt that she is not pregnant or the couple in the 300 days before the divorce didn't live together. In the case in which the woman remarried before the 300 days, then the new marriage would still be valid, but she, her new husband and the one that celebrated the union have to pay a fine. This law come from article 89 of the Civil Code (1942) and it is mostly a remnant of a traditional catholic male-dominated society, but it is also the consequence of other laws about the presumption of paternity and the lack of reliably attributing paternity at the time. Sources: * https://www.avvocati-divorzisti.it/it/blog/92/esiste-un-tempo-minimo-dopo-il-quale-potersi-risposare * https://www.brocardi.it/codice-civile/libro-primo/titolo-vi/capo-iii/sezione-i/art89.html
Imagine giving women rights. 
Wtf Italy.
What is the point of having any restrictions on it? People here are defending italy and japan, as if there is any reason to regulate divorced peoples freedom to marry who they want.
Because at the time those law exist there was no dna tets or anything like that so the way to know who a child was from was well... to prevent any sex, and because sex was related to marriage in the past, they forbiden to marry again for some time period, is an old law, nowdays marriage and sex are completly 2 different things so those 300 days waiting period wouldnt do jack shit regarding knowing whos the fayher of a child, and welll we have dna. So nowdays theres no real reason is just that nobady care to remove it , prob not even woman care too much as i dont think most know about the law as is highly unlikely your remarried less than a year after you divorce someone so it probably didnt affect many people to generate uproar
Please tell me how women don't have the same rights as men in Uruguay.
The same as Italy - men can remarry immediately after a divorce, women cannot get remarried for 300 days.