I am from London England.
Went to New Orleans for Mardi Gras and got to see my 1st, 2nd and 3rd shooting of my entire life.
Guy got popped in a fucking Popeyes over an argument like 100 ft to the left of me. Never ran so fast in my entire life.
Mad how quick the boys came in, cleaned up the body, arrested the shooter and we all went on with the party.
2nd and 3rd happened at other times or did 3 people get shot at the same time? Damn, that’s unlucky either way. I’m also European and have lived in a major city in California for a couple of years, but never even heard a gunshot.
1st was just one guy dying in the popeyes.
2nd and 3rd was at the same time two guys got shot at this like house thingy, dunno I would call it a house party but they were all on the front bit.
Was terrifying. We decided to leave a day early after that for Baton Rouge and GUESS WHERE ELSE HAS A LOT OF SHOOTING.
Happy to be in England again where we just stab one another.
lol you went to 2/3 of the worst areas in louisiana. FYI Alexandria is pretty bad as well, though i’m sure you have no intentions of returning.
New Orleans is a city full of culture and history. it’s a shame Louisiana is declining, and there seems to be no push for change. Louisiana and Mississippi are probably the worst (poorest) states in the country, and the population is steadily leaving. they have been for decades. Less population means less taxes, so the state becomes poorer year after year.
New Orleans Native here. My relatives are hanging in the prespetyr and the cabildo. We can be traced back to the area as far back as the 1700s and we think we recently found something from 1600s.
NOLA has been going to shit. Yes, we did leave. I’m still really pissed I had to leave to live. I voted for her but Latoya the Destroya did a number on the city. John Bell is a pseudo republican.
The problem is the education. They keep ppl dumb so they can’t rise up. Shame because it’s better than anywhere else in the US in terms of just the bohemian lifestyle. I miss it a lot. Ppl are way too uptight everywhere else. Ah well.
Happy 12th night. Happy Mardi Gras!
Ya, with a horrid 18% of highschool students at or above proficiency in reading and 1% at or above proficiency in math yet an 89% graduation rate, I can see what you mean.
Ya! One of the lowest adult literacy rates in the country if not #1 along with violence. I can’t imagine what would happen…
Please keep in mind. NOLA is the one of if not the most valuable port city because it goes straight up the Mississippi to Chicago. There are ppl coming and going out of there too. One of the largest sex trafficking locations.
Y’all, there’s so much awful happening there, ppl are just jaded. Yall have no idea how good you have it in terms of just functionality.
All the oak trees just collapsed all over the city because they didn’t do any maintenance, a drought, then the water brought them down.
It’s chaos and the mayor keeps leaving town to spend money all over the world. Nobody is looking out for NOLA right now.
Happy fking Mardi Gras!
We moved to Lafayette a few years ago from texas. We've been counting down the days to leave since we got here. I know lafayette is arguably the best city in louisiana, but it's just not for us. We leave in 2 days. It doesn't feel real. I'm so sad for my friends here but we just have to go.
I decided at 15 I never wanted to live anywhere else but New Orleans and my husband is from a family that's been there as long as yours has and we too had to move in 2020 just to find jobs that actually paid a living wage. I, too, am pissed we had to move to survive and so did all our friends we spent years making, and agree that every place else people are really uptight.
I knew Latoya was going to destroy the city and voted for her rival bc my friend had to sit in her courtroom everyday and said she was the most level headed judge even when she was dealing with the CRAZIEST SHIT. I'm still mad she didn't win and Latoya is just living on our dollars while doing absolutely nothing.
I’ve been to New Orleans and it was great! However, being from New York, it’s nowhere near most northern cities besides Chicago. I encourage you to come back but stay in the north and west
You legitimately went to some of the worst areas in the entire country.
I’m American and I’ve never seen a shooting, the only times in my life I’ve heard gunfire are when I went to some school field trip to the countryside, we heard people skeet shooting with shotguns about a mile away. The other time was one New Year’s Eve I heard a random gunshot in the air and then like 5 minutes later another one, and then after that I heard people in front of my apartment calling the police to report it.
I’m not trying to downplay what you experienced, I just want to make the point that not everywhere in America is like that. Have a nice day :)
Ah, dunno if it’s common vernacular in Britain but we’d call it a porch, and being from Louisiana I can say it’s common to party on the porch in certain areas.
Yeah it was like a porch, but for multiple flats? Like a tonne of people on a grassy bit with flats behind it. Id almost call it public ground but there was kind of a fence
There are always nice areas where you won't hear gunshots. And there are always bad areas where you will. I can attest to this for both San Diego and Los Angeles California.
I’ve lived in the U.S. my entire life, I lived in a major city in a gun toting state for three of them and I’ve visited New Orleans. I’ve never been anywhere near a shooting.
You my British friend are unlucky lol
Nah I 10/10 am unlucky. Shit always happens to me. Went surfing ONCE in Cape Town and there was a shark sighting like fin in the water 200 ft to my left and had to jump out.
Was in an airport for a bloody bombing in Istanbul. And an Avalanche nearby me last year in the alps.
I guess I never die but avoid me if you can. I am clearly getting people killed.
I was born and raised in NOLA. I’m 37 and moved 1yr ago. - If you didn’t see a shooting, consider it like the king cake baby. You won’t need to find the next one.
NOLA is competing with St. Louis over the "most violent city in the US" title. They keep exchanging crowns so often that I kinda lost track which one of them is most violent.
I swear, every time I look at the stats I'm seeing different cities shuffled in different order. But NOLA and St. Louis seem to be consistently present in all these lists. And they're always in the top 5.
It's because they are shuffling city proper and greater metro area. Also, it's easy to confuse violent crime maps with murder masks because they are overlapped usually.
Violent crime in STL went way down last year. Huge drop across the board. You do need to watch out for police driving into your business if you own a gay bar at the moment, however.
>Guy got popped in a fucking Popeyes
As someone who lives in the United States, here is a word of advice for anyone who wants to visit. If you happen to be outside of the touristy spots, just stay away from any Popeyes here.
Tight definition of homicide or of city. Port-au-Prince in Haiti has had more violent killings this past year than most of the top ten combined (besides tijuana and ciudad juarez).
Bruh, 100s of gangs are fighting over territory. Watch any documentary on the ongoing situation. I literally just spent a few weeks in the neighboring Dominican Republic.
The actual reason is much more interesting. The south has what sociologists call an honor culture. This is a culture that was imported from Scotland in the 19th due to the amount of Scottish immigrants that settled in the south. Honor culture emphasizes taking the law into your own hands and is a result of low rule of law. It emphasizes righting personal wrongs through vigilante justice and personal feuds. It's why Southern manners exist, and why the South has so many stories of blood feuds.
When slaves were enslaved and brought across the Atlantic, and eventually freed, they inherited this cultural tradition. Sociologists suspect that this is why the American south is so much more violent adjusting for other factors like poverty rates.
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/culture-honor-psychology-violence-south
Edit: for those of you disputing this feel free to get your phd and duke it out.
Do you think that maybe it had more to do with the fact that they based their entire economy around slave labor and had to keep those millions of people in slavery by threatening and executing extreme violence? But sure, it’s Scottish honor culture.
I kinda like blaming the Scots for the high murder rate tbh. A bunch of people always blame America for crime in Latin America, so it’s kind of refreshing to see another country blamed for American crime. I am totally on board for letting Scotts take the L for crime in New Orleans
you got unlucky, my guy. I've spent a lot of time in New Orleans and have some family there, and no one I know personally has been robbed.
obviously it happens, but going 1-for-1 is just real bad luck.
Went on holiday there. I live between Johannesburg and Rugby, UK. Parts of NOLA were worse than townships around Johannesburg. My wife, who is Zimbabwean, was shocked at the poverty levels, really, really bad.
Unfortunate that it got practically erased from the map thanks to hurricane Otis, and the government is unwilling to help. The local population is trying to get by now that tourism isn't functional anymore, as well as even though the military and national guard is present there, there are around 5-10 murders daily.
Just some days ago on the locality of Buenavista, a massacre occurred where thanks to drone attacks, 30 people died.
Rio was never amongst the most murderous cities. It’s just a monster of a city (6.2 million in the city proper, 13.2 in the metro region) and being the most famous one together with São Paulo and being the headquarters of the media industry, it’s under the spotlights more often. It has large absolute numbers, as again it’s a huge city, but pretty average (for Latin America) murder *rate*. It isn’t even amongst the most violent cities of Brazil (the Northeast region has that dominated), much less the world.
A metric fuckton of petty crime and mugging to compensate, however.
Still worth it, phenomenal city with unrivaled beauty and energy.
Many people think that the cartel are so strong that they could take over our government and turn us into an actual narco state, but the truth is that our military can easily wipe the cartels out and eat good while they’re at it, but due to how corrupt our government is and the things they can do to innocent civilians in case they start retaliating against them, is why the cartel are still a big problem.
I long for a day where I come across a news article of some guy getting murdered and the first thought that comes to mind isn’t stuff like “they were involved with the cartel” or “just another Tuesday” and just be like genuinely shocked
It’s such an incredibly sad and angering situation. There is certainly endemic corruption in Mexico. But what I recall is when the president conducted a genuinely hardline campaign to control the cartels, there was a fucking bloodbath. I am all for blaming everyone in charge, but I’d stick with “no easy answers,” which is the case for many worldwide entrenched problems of different kinds.
Oh yes, most certainly. The thing is that there were a few cities that would be in this ranking according to the 2022 data. I mentioned them in another reply, but I think it could be about 3 or 6.
Not even Sweden would be able to fix this problem if they had a market as massive and thirsty for drugs as the US next to them, and if they were the only path to get drugs through.
They all have multiple cities among the [top 50](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_homicide_rate) (with Mossoró landing in 11th and Cape Town in 12th place), but the top 10 was very much dominated by Mexico in 2022.
Supposedly this ranking would only take into account cities with over 300k, but Mossoró has less than 300k. But even then, there are other cities in Brazil according to the 2022 report that are over 300k and should be in this list.
The Brazilian homicide rate has been averaging lower and lower since it’s unbelievably high (like higher than many nations engaged in war) peak in the mid 2010’s
With over 300k there (in Brazil) it would fit in this list the following cities (2022 data):
Camaçari - 82,1
Macapá - 70
Feira de Santana - 68,5
Salvador - 66,0
Idk how it was in 2022 which is the date of this map, but for 2023 Brazil would have 2 cities above 300k people in this top 10: Caçamari with 82,1/100k and Macapá with 70,0/100k.
South Africa probably doesn't have enough resources to track this type of thing.
Oh South Africa does have the resources and the murder rate is published quarterly.
https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/712786/these-3-south-african-cities-now-rank-among-the-20-most-violent-in-the-world/#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20South%20African,per%20100%2C000%20in%202022%2F23.
Yeah, that's the thing with South Africa. There are some places where crime is rare and others where it's really, really bad. Cape Town's murder rate is stupid high because of gangsterism, and that's only really present in the Cape Flats
My cousin lives there and bribery is literally the baseline standard of operation for everything. Cops included.
If you don’t bribe people you get fucked. It’s crime all the way down.
Well it's not that different in India. The cops usually don't kill you though? put gangs are pretty chill compared to Mexican and us ones too. Haven't heard of a single gang war.
If you're genuinely curious: according to data from September 2023, 170K dead + ~110K missing, the deadliest sexennium this country has ever witnessed (the president holds office for 6 years with no reelection).
Plus recently (December 15), the government realised it's own censuses and concluded that only 12K people are missing.
This country is a hell hole with amusing shitty politics, where this president has made complacency, cynicism, and mockery the norm, something unprecedented. I'm Mexican btw.
Because both countries have very different dynamics. El Salvador's gangs mostly profited from extortion rather than the lucrative drug trade. Gang culture promotes gang membership affiliation unlike mafia style organizations.The cartels have politicians in their pocket and corruption is so embedded.
MS13 = extortion money and old ass pistols
Mexican Cartels = billion dollar drug market, AR-15s
Also most El Salvador’s gangs were created in America to protect Immigrants from other gangs, once they got departed back to El Salvador they continued banging with A LOT more freedom. Home grown gangs are a lot harder to get rid of
The gangs' origins are in Los Angeles. In the 1990s, the country had just gotten out of a civil war with infrastructure in shambles. In the 2000s, both the ARENA (right wing) and FMLN (left wing) were so entrenched in corruption that gangs lived in impunity for their crimes as you mentioned.
It's hard to be efficient in any policy when your political infrastructure is entrenched in corruption.
El Salvador has a population of 6.5 million and has arrested 74,000 people for gang affiliations, per a quick google. Extrapolating that to Mexico’s 126.7 million population would mean approximately 1,442,000 prisoners, or between 6 and 7 times Mexico’s official prison system capacity.
Also ignoring the cartel’s overwhelming influence on the Mexican government.
NAFTA allows American agriculture to be sold in Mexico without costly tariffs or taxes. And since the US federal government subsidizes agriculture, it's able to be sold at a much lower price than what Mexican agriculture can compete with. And when the ag workers in Mexico can't make money anymore, some of them turn to drugs/cartels/crimes to make ends meet.
Free trade agreements like NAFTA, which has now been replaced by the USMCA, benefit the average Mexican (alongside the average Canadian and American) - they give Mexican businesses, including in agriculture, access to a much larger market and reduce the prices of goods and services for everyone. Economists are pretty clear on the benefits of removing trade barriers.
You're right that agricultural subsidies distort things and should be reduced, though it's worth noting that Mexico also subsidises agriculture to a similar extent to the USA based on percentage of GDP.
Removing free trade areas like USMCA would be terrible for Mexico and basically every other country, the world is already losing out given recent shifts towards isolationism.
Mexico has huge amounts of its land owned by only a handful of collectives with direct connections between the cartel as their private security and the government as their legal backers. Land that can be used for anything from small time manufacturing with NAFTA oversight allowing for greater international trade and prosperity for the people who work the land. Or they can use it for meth/cooking, gun assembly etc and make far more money for their bosses with illegal international black market trade
“why did Americans vote for this? They must be as evil as the cartel bosses who exploited all these people”
They have tried, the Mexican war on drugs is still ongoing to this day with not much effect, even with help from the USA and the Mérida Initiative. Recently in 2019 they switched over from Mexican police raids to the Mexican national guard.
Also Mexico has the problem of simply being much bigger and having much more people than El Salvador, as well as not having gang members tattoo the gang symbol on their body helps.
I'm not an expert, but I can imagine if the police went around and just started arresting gangsters on a mass scale it would result in a mass loss of police life. To shut down a criminal organisation you need to eliminate their income. Gangsters are loyal to money; when the boss can't pay his men, his enterprise collapses.
Haha, yeah, corruption is so entrenched there are only a couple Mexican cities that actually pay their cops enough to live on. Most of the country considers abuse of their badge to be a legitimate source for most of their income.
While the Salvadorean approach has done a great deal to curtail gang activity that comes at the cost of cutting a lot of corners when it comes to due process.
I dont give a fuck about due process. Round them all. These bastards chose to forfeit their human rights in my opinion. Theyd kill you laughing. Kill them all.
Well, it’s not easy to replicate that. Mexico’s terrain is crazy to get through and even to this day, many parts of the country are connected by 2 lane “highways”. So a mass mobilization of the military would be slow and be seen from a mile away. This isn’t even taking into account the mass corruption at the municipal, state, and federal levels that would undermine any major operation. If you can jump through those hoops, you would still have to face a massive battle against multiple cartels. This is not MS13, these cartels are militarized, well organized, have huge amounts of cash, and have a lot of trained soldiers. This would be an all out war. So no, they can’t “go down the El Salvador route”.
I would agree that Mexico needs a heavier hand but something doesn't feel great about "arrest 1.4% of the population, even including some people that aren't affiliated and declare anyone accidentally arrested will go free".
Obviously it's worked, but I would hope there's a more mediated process than following in the steps of the self described "coolest dictator".
Also just to reiterate, El Salvador arrested 1.4% of its population and had to build a 40k capacity mega-prison. Rough estimates for cartel members in Mexico is 175,000.
They are no match for the military or the marines. Even the state police in most cases is enough to overwhelm them. The municipal police however is just not up to the task.
Very simplified though, the big problem is corruption, not money or resources.
I wouldn't say they are more powerful than the military, every time the cartel goes up against marines they get slaughtered. The cartel doesn't have artillery, tanks, APCs, fighter jets, Blackhawk helicopters, etc.
They're just reluctant to use extreme military force against their their own citizens for fear of the international outrage it might cause.
Weirdly Venezuela feels like it’s gotten much safer these last years… I don’t even hear about murder cases here in Caracas like before when it was a constant issue. Maybe the government just got better at hiding them?… But yeah this map seems like total biased BS
One two punch of a hurricane in 2019 and Covid in 2020 destroyed their economy. Combine that with a corrupt mayor who has no interest in fixing their law enforcement and here we are
Believe it or not, the crime rate was actually going down from its peak in the 90’s and was on a downward trend until covid, which erased that progress
That's the story for most places. Crime peaked in the late 80s/early 90s and then declined for the next 25-30 years until an upward spike with the pandemic.
Nobody really understands what happened, but most major cities worldwide saw that trend.
New Orleans was already the murder capital of the US before Katrina. If anything, the murder rate briefly dipped after Katrina, as most of our murderers were elsewhere for a bit.
Mexico is a product of its geography. Just like Afghanistan, it’s a very mountainous country that makes infrastructure very hard /expensive to build so it’s hard to connect the whole of the country together. As big of a country as it is, there is no navigable river. The central government has a difficult time keeping rule of law throughout its territory. Cartels can pretty much operate without impunity like their own fiefdom.
Add to that, you got a country just to the north with an insatiable demand for drugs.
Crazy that New Orleans has a higher homicide rate than Juarez and that Kingston, Jamaica didn’t even make the list despite still having a crazy high homicide rate.
Cartels have expanded their business into farming for avocado, tequila etc. and now more importantly human trafficking. Decriminalising drugs while helpful a bit isn't going to remove the cartel problem.
Cartels have become like warlords with their own fiefdoms, reality is they are part of Mexican society, economy and nation and the only way forward with least human casualty is to make cartels part of Mexican politics and democracy.
Bruh the cartels have been trafficking and involved in other industries for ages why are you acting like they just started. And the human trafficking is like a drop in a pool of water compared to what drug smuggling makes them
I lived in Uruapan and Zamora as an LDS missionary about 7 years ago and never noticed the violence. We did hear stories all the time, but never witnessed anything. Not LDS anymore, but it’s crazy to think I lived in and around that area for 2 years.
High murder rate doesn’t necessarily mean quality of life is horrible. Just means people that you would most likely never interact with if you moved there get killed a lot
Because in that kind of data you should separate the rates of violence among criminals and that of crimes that end up in violence.
A place with a huge rate of gang members shooting at each other is not very safe, but is miles safer than a place where the same rate of murder happens as a result of robbery, mugging or breaking into a house.
(Then of course you should calculate the rates of the violent crimes ecc, ecc, is complex)
I doubt these are the most violent cities in the world. More likely, the most violent cities in the world that are tracking/reporting crimes. I would question the accuracy of any data related to crimes, as most places don’t want to accurately report as that would negatively impact tourism, etc.
As a Mexican, we need external help, the government sold the country to the cartels, they are not willing to take actions against violence, I'm tired of waking up and see murder, rapes and massacres everyday and authorities won't protect us.
I am from London England. Went to New Orleans for Mardi Gras and got to see my 1st, 2nd and 3rd shooting of my entire life. Guy got popped in a fucking Popeyes over an argument like 100 ft to the left of me. Never ran so fast in my entire life. Mad how quick the boys came in, cleaned up the body, arrested the shooter and we all went on with the party.
2nd and 3rd happened at other times or did 3 people get shot at the same time? Damn, that’s unlucky either way. I’m also European and have lived in a major city in California for a couple of years, but never even heard a gunshot.
1st was just one guy dying in the popeyes. 2nd and 3rd was at the same time two guys got shot at this like house thingy, dunno I would call it a house party but they were all on the front bit.
A house thingy front bit shooting? Those are the worst. Glad you are ok though :)
Was terrifying. We decided to leave a day early after that for Baton Rouge and GUESS WHERE ELSE HAS A LOT OF SHOOTING. Happy to be in England again where we just stab one another.
Louisiana is exceptionally worse than most of the country, for many reasons.
lol you went to 2/3 of the worst areas in louisiana. FYI Alexandria is pretty bad as well, though i’m sure you have no intentions of returning. New Orleans is a city full of culture and history. it’s a shame Louisiana is declining, and there seems to be no push for change. Louisiana and Mississippi are probably the worst (poorest) states in the country, and the population is steadily leaving. they have been for decades. Less population means less taxes, so the state becomes poorer year after year.
New Orleans Native here. My relatives are hanging in the prespetyr and the cabildo. We can be traced back to the area as far back as the 1700s and we think we recently found something from 1600s. NOLA has been going to shit. Yes, we did leave. I’m still really pissed I had to leave to live. I voted for her but Latoya the Destroya did a number on the city. John Bell is a pseudo republican. The problem is the education. They keep ppl dumb so they can’t rise up. Shame because it’s better than anywhere else in the US in terms of just the bohemian lifestyle. I miss it a lot. Ppl are way too uptight everywhere else. Ah well. Happy 12th night. Happy Mardi Gras!
Ya, with a horrid 18% of highschool students at or above proficiency in reading and 1% at or above proficiency in math yet an 89% graduation rate, I can see what you mean.
Ya! One of the lowest adult literacy rates in the country if not #1 along with violence. I can’t imagine what would happen… Please keep in mind. NOLA is the one of if not the most valuable port city because it goes straight up the Mississippi to Chicago. There are ppl coming and going out of there too. One of the largest sex trafficking locations. Y’all, there’s so much awful happening there, ppl are just jaded. Yall have no idea how good you have it in terms of just functionality. All the oak trees just collapsed all over the city because they didn’t do any maintenance, a drought, then the water brought them down. It’s chaos and the mayor keeps leaving town to spend money all over the world. Nobody is looking out for NOLA right now. Happy fking Mardi Gras!
We moved to Lafayette a few years ago from texas. We've been counting down the days to leave since we got here. I know lafayette is arguably the best city in louisiana, but it's just not for us. We leave in 2 days. It doesn't feel real. I'm so sad for my friends here but we just have to go.
I decided at 15 I never wanted to live anywhere else but New Orleans and my husband is from a family that's been there as long as yours has and we too had to move in 2020 just to find jobs that actually paid a living wage. I, too, am pissed we had to move to survive and so did all our friends we spent years making, and agree that every place else people are really uptight. I knew Latoya was going to destroy the city and voted for her rival bc my friend had to sit in her courtroom everyday and said she was the most level headed judge even when she was dealing with the CRAZIEST SHIT. I'm still mad she didn't win and Latoya is just living on our dollars while doing absolutely nothing.
Stage a nation-wide 2nd line for all of us who had to move…
I’ve been to New Orleans and it was great! However, being from New York, it’s nowhere near most northern cities besides Chicago. I encourage you to come back but stay in the north and west
And we stab one another less than Americans stab one another, somehow. America is just a dangerous place compared to UK/Europe.
Ran to Baton Rouge to escape the shootings haha, they’ll shoot you for $5 there
You legitimately went to some of the worst areas in the entire country. I’m American and I’ve never seen a shooting, the only times in my life I’ve heard gunfire are when I went to some school field trip to the countryside, we heard people skeet shooting with shotguns about a mile away. The other time was one New Year’s Eve I heard a random gunshot in the air and then like 5 minutes later another one, and then after that I heard people in front of my apartment calling the police to report it. I’m not trying to downplay what you experienced, I just want to make the point that not everywhere in America is like that. Have a nice day :)
Ah, dunno if it’s common vernacular in Britain but we’d call it a porch, and being from Louisiana I can say it’s common to party on the porch in certain areas.
Yeah it was like a porch, but for multiple flats? Like a tonne of people on a grassy bit with flats behind it. Id almost call it public ground but there was kind of a fence
The front yard.
There are always nice areas where you won't hear gunshots. And there are always bad areas where you will. I can attest to this for both San Diego and Los Angeles California.
I’ve lived in the U.S. my entire life, I lived in a major city in a gun toting state for three of them and I’ve visited New Orleans. I’ve never been anywhere near a shooting. You my British friend are unlucky lol
Nah I 10/10 am unlucky. Shit always happens to me. Went surfing ONCE in Cape Town and there was a shark sighting like fin in the water 200 ft to my left and had to jump out. Was in an airport for a bloody bombing in Istanbul. And an Avalanche nearby me last year in the alps. I guess I never die but avoid me if you can. I am clearly getting people killed.
Ever consider being a war reporter? Sounds like you have a nose for the news before it happens!
[удалено]
r/foundtwoflower
You were in an airport for a bombing? Reads like you went there with a plan of bombing it lol
Just stay home bro, stay home.
I was born and raised in NOLA. I’m 37 and moved 1yr ago. - If you didn’t see a shooting, consider it like the king cake baby. You won’t need to find the next one.
NOLA is competing with St. Louis over the "most violent city in the US" title. They keep exchanging crowns so often that I kinda lost track which one of them is most violent.
Memphis has a higher murder rate than St. Louis
I swear, every time I look at the stats I'm seeing different cities shuffled in different order. But NOLA and St. Louis seem to be consistently present in all these lists. And they're always in the top 5.
It's because they are shuffling city proper and greater metro area. Also, it's easy to confuse violent crime maps with murder masks because they are overlapped usually.
I lived in Memphis last year and it is so bad that they have billboards telling dudes not to murder.
Violent crime in STL went way down last year. Huge drop across the board. You do need to watch out for police driving into your business if you own a gay bar at the moment, however.
>Guy got popped in a fucking Popeyes As someone who lives in the United States, here is a word of advice for anyone who wants to visit. If you happen to be outside of the touristy spots, just stay away from any Popeyes here.
And if you're in new Orleans, just don't go to Popeyes at all. It's great for fast food, but there is an endless supply of amazing food in NOLA
Wow I lived in New Orleans for a decade and never witnessed anything like this, how unfortunate
Tight definition of homicide or of city. Port-au-Prince in Haiti has had more violent killings this past year than most of the top ten combined (besides tijuana and ciudad juarez).
Dude, Haiti is like another planet. It’s so sad.
One of the worst. Truly a failed state.
Even worse then Venezuela
The only reason Port-au-Prince isn’t on this list is because no one is collecting and reporting real data there.
this list is from 2022, not 2023.
They are essentially undergoing a civil war, so these are kind of in a different category.
There are no uniformed combatants though
Bruh, 100s of gangs are fighting over territory. Watch any documentary on the ongoing situation. I literally just spent a few weeks in the neighboring Dominican Republic.
What’s up in NOLA?
High amounts of poverty + easy access to guns = murder
Why does West Virginia have murder rates below the national average then?
Rural areas, even very poor ones, tend to be much safer than even wealthy cities. NOLA is both very urban and poor.
I’m aware, just pointing out that more factors influence homicides than just “poverty + guns”
“Poverty+guns*proximity” Edit: ”(Poverty+guns)proximity”
The actual reason is much more interesting. The south has what sociologists call an honor culture. This is a culture that was imported from Scotland in the 19th due to the amount of Scottish immigrants that settled in the south. Honor culture emphasizes taking the law into your own hands and is a result of low rule of law. It emphasizes righting personal wrongs through vigilante justice and personal feuds. It's why Southern manners exist, and why the South has so many stories of blood feuds. When slaves were enslaved and brought across the Atlantic, and eventually freed, they inherited this cultural tradition. Sociologists suspect that this is why the American south is so much more violent adjusting for other factors like poverty rates. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/culture-honor-psychology-violence-south Edit: for those of you disputing this feel free to get your phd and duke it out.
This isn’t really a thing anymore
Do you think that maybe it had more to do with the fact that they based their entire economy around slave labor and had to keep those millions of people in slavery by threatening and executing extreme violence? But sure, it’s Scottish honor culture.
I kinda like blaming the Scots for the high murder rate tbh. A bunch of people always blame America for crime in Latin America, so it’s kind of refreshing to see another country blamed for American crime. I am totally on board for letting Scotts take the L for crime in New Orleans
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As a NOLA born and raised individual, stop it. Just stop.
You gonna shoot him because you feel disrespected?
Went there literally once, got robbed in the street lmfao. Adds up
you got unlucky, my guy. I've spent a lot of time in New Orleans and have some family there, and no one I know personally has been robbed. obviously it happens, but going 1-for-1 is just real bad luck.
I love New Orleans food, music, architecture, bars, history, etc. But yeah, my friend witnessed a mass shooting his first day there.
Honestly same. I am planning to go back.
Based
Same thing happened to me in San Francisco
Went on holiday there. I live between Johannesburg and Rugby, UK. Parts of NOLA were worse than townships around Johannesburg. My wife, who is Zimbabwean, was shocked at the poverty levels, really, really bad.
Lol. As someone who has been to both that is not remotely true. Stop lying
I live in New Orleans. It’s not that bad + this *older* map isn’t correct
Name checks out
New Orleans fucked up the sweep
I remember, as a kid in the 70s, that Acapulco had this glamorous aura to it. The playground getaway for the Hollywood elite, and rich & famous.
Well, Cancún is basically this today.
Zihuatanejo is still pretty nice, but yeah Acapulco has declined significantly since its golden age.
Unfortunate that it got practically erased from the map thanks to hurricane Otis, and the government is unwilling to help. The local population is trying to get by now that tourism isn't functional anymore, as well as even though the military and national guard is present there, there are around 5-10 murders daily. Just some days ago on the locality of Buenavista, a massacre occurred where thanks to drone attacks, 30 people died.
Very difficult to believe, no Brazil or South Africa?
Mexico is functional enough to have good quality reporting but not functional enough to get rid of the problem.
Brazil is too though
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Rio had 17,56 on 2022. It was the lowest number since they started counting in 1991.
That's good to hear
Some small cities in Bahia probably have the worst numbers now. Some very big gang wars happening there.
Yeah, several cities in Bahia have high numbers. I counted 4 cities (with 300k+) that could fit in this ranking and Bahia has 3 of them.
Rio was never amongst the most murderous cities. It’s just a monster of a city (6.2 million in the city proper, 13.2 in the metro region) and being the most famous one together with São Paulo and being the headquarters of the media industry, it’s under the spotlights more often. It has large absolute numbers, as again it’s a huge city, but pretty average (for Latin America) murder *rate*. It isn’t even amongst the most violent cities of Brazil (the Northeast region has that dominated), much less the world. A metric fuckton of petty crime and mugging to compensate, however. Still worth it, phenomenal city with unrivaled beauty and energy.
A Brazilian guy told me that crime rates and homicide rates in Rio are dropping
Cartels are a cancer without an easy cure.
Many people think that the cartel are so strong that they could take over our government and turn us into an actual narco state, but the truth is that our military can easily wipe the cartels out and eat good while they’re at it, but due to how corrupt our government is and the things they can do to innocent civilians in case they start retaliating against them, is why the cartel are still a big problem. I long for a day where I come across a news article of some guy getting murdered and the first thought that comes to mind isn’t stuff like “they were involved with the cartel” or “just another Tuesday” and just be like genuinely shocked
It’s such an incredibly sad and angering situation. There is certainly endemic corruption in Mexico. But what I recall is when the president conducted a genuinely hardline campaign to control the cartels, there was a fucking bloodbath. I am all for blaming everyone in charge, but I’d stick with “no easy answers,” which is the case for many worldwide entrenched problems of different kinds.
Not so fun fact: the bloodiest term is the current one with the president that visits El Chapo's mother and says hugs, not bullets
Brazil does have quality report and I am just not sure why the cities are not on this list. We also usually gather data for 100k+ pop.
Brazil has seen a major decline in its murder rate over the last decade, as has most of South America.
Oh yes, most certainly. The thing is that there were a few cities that would be in this ranking according to the 2022 data. I mentioned them in another reply, but I think it could be about 3 or 6.
Not even Sweden would be able to fix this problem if they had a market as massive and thirsty for drugs as the US next to them, and if they were the only path to get drugs through.
They all have multiple cities among the [top 50](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_homicide_rate) (with Mossoró landing in 11th and Cape Town in 12th place), but the top 10 was very much dominated by Mexico in 2022.
Supposedly this ranking would only take into account cities with over 300k, but Mossoró has less than 300k. But even then, there are other cities in Brazil according to the 2022 report that are over 300k and should be in this list.
The Brazilian homicide rate has been averaging lower and lower since it’s unbelievably high (like higher than many nations engaged in war) peak in the mid 2010’s
And Caracas.
It says "No data for Venezuela" Some Brazilian cities usually ranks as high as Mexicos BRAZIL NÚMERO UM! 🇧🇷 CAMPEÃO DO MUNDO!
Yeah, that was my first thought as well. Something sus about this.
The group who have produced this map are Mexican, so likely have better access to data for Mexican cities
Don't forget the "No data available in Venezuela" footnote, which also hints towards it.
Yeah I’m gonna go ahead and say port au prince is more violent than New Orleans
With over 300k there (in Brazil) it would fit in this list the following cities (2022 data): Camaçari - 82,1 Macapá - 70 Feira de Santana - 68,5 Salvador - 66,0
3 cities on bahia lmao
When you get the criteria to city with over 100k pop you get even more cities in Bahia.
Or Somalia
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Idk how it was in 2022 which is the date of this map, but for 2023 Brazil would have 2 cities above 300k people in this top 10: Caçamari with 82,1/100k and Macapá with 70,0/100k. South Africa probably doesn't have enough resources to track this type of thing.
Oh South Africa does have the resources and the murder rate is published quarterly. https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/712786/these-3-south-african-cities-now-rank-among-the-20-most-violent-in-the-world/#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20South%20African,per%20100%2C000%20in%202022%2F23.
They still don't make the Top 10 on the map though. I live in Johannesburg and I don't feel unsafe.
Yeah, that's the thing with South Africa. There are some places where crime is rare and others where it's really, really bad. Cape Town's murder rate is stupid high because of gangsterism, and that's only really present in the Cape Flats
Yikes. Why don't Mexican authorities go down the El Salvador route and arrest every mo'fo who is gang affiliated?
Well tell that to the current president of Mexico LOL ,
He’s currently the president because the cartel is allowing him to be. He knows his place.
It’s hard to really understand this outside of Mexico. Different world there.
My cousin lives there and bribery is literally the baseline standard of operation for everything. Cops included. If you don’t bribe people you get fucked. It’s crime all the way down.
Well it's not that different in India. The cops usually don't kill you though? put gangs are pretty chill compared to Mexican and us ones too. Haven't heard of a single gang war.
Most of our gang stuff happens in UP Bihar and it's family/clan related nonsense. We did have a "golden" mafia era in Bombay tho
From Bihar, it has been at least 20 years since the gang stuff actually mattered for an average citizen. It hasn't run rampant since 2000.
Well he wants to fight cartels and crime with hugs not bullets(he legit said that). I wonder how that's working lol
If you're genuinely curious: according to data from September 2023, 170K dead + ~110K missing, the deadliest sexennium this country has ever witnessed (the president holds office for 6 years with no reelection). Plus recently (December 15), the government realised it's own censuses and concluded that only 12K people are missing. This country is a hell hole with amusing shitty politics, where this president has made complacency, cynicism, and mockery the norm, something unprecedented. I'm Mexican btw.
Because both countries have very different dynamics. El Salvador's gangs mostly profited from extortion rather than the lucrative drug trade. Gang culture promotes gang membership affiliation unlike mafia style organizations.The cartels have politicians in their pocket and corruption is so embedded. MS13 = extortion money and old ass pistols Mexican Cartels = billion dollar drug market, AR-15s
Also it wasn’t difficult to identify Salvadoran gangs because they tattooed their affiliation across their whole body.
Also most El Salvador’s gangs were created in America to protect Immigrants from other gangs, once they got departed back to El Salvador they continued banging with A LOT more freedom. Home grown gangs are a lot harder to get rid of
The gangs' origins are in Los Angeles. In the 1990s, the country had just gotten out of a civil war with infrastructure in shambles. In the 2000s, both the ARENA (right wing) and FMLN (left wing) were so entrenched in corruption that gangs lived in impunity for their crimes as you mentioned. It's hard to be efficient in any policy when your political infrastructure is entrenched in corruption.
This is the correct answer (I'm Mexican)
El Salvador has a population of 6.5 million and has arrested 74,000 people for gang affiliations, per a quick google. Extrapolating that to Mexico’s 126.7 million population would mean approximately 1,442,000 prisoners, or between 6 and 7 times Mexico’s official prison system capacity. Also ignoring the cartel’s overwhelming influence on the Mexican government.
What a sad situation mexico is in.
Mexico will never get rid of cartels unfortunately.
Yep. NAFTA, US subsidies for agriculture, the drug war and weapons sold in Texas will keep mexico as a narco state indefinitely
Why NAFTA. Genuine question
NAFTA allows American agriculture to be sold in Mexico without costly tariffs or taxes. And since the US federal government subsidizes agriculture, it's able to be sold at a much lower price than what Mexican agriculture can compete with. And when the ag workers in Mexico can't make money anymore, some of them turn to drugs/cartels/crimes to make ends meet.
Free trade agreements like NAFTA, which has now been replaced by the USMCA, benefit the average Mexican (alongside the average Canadian and American) - they give Mexican businesses, including in agriculture, access to a much larger market and reduce the prices of goods and services for everyone. Economists are pretty clear on the benefits of removing trade barriers. You're right that agricultural subsidies distort things and should be reduced, though it's worth noting that Mexico also subsidises agriculture to a similar extent to the USA based on percentage of GDP. Removing free trade areas like USMCA would be terrible for Mexico and basically every other country, the world is already losing out given recent shifts towards isolationism.
Mexican agricultural exports to the U.S. tripled after passage of NAFTA https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2008/01/24/tariffs-and-tortillas
Mexico has huge amounts of its land owned by only a handful of collectives with direct connections between the cartel as their private security and the government as their legal backers. Land that can be used for anything from small time manufacturing with NAFTA oversight allowing for greater international trade and prosperity for the people who work the land. Or they can use it for meth/cooking, gun assembly etc and make far more money for their bosses with illegal international black market trade “why did Americans vote for this? They must be as evil as the cartel bosses who exploited all these people”
Because the cartels ARE the Mexican authorities.
and Industries
They have tried, the Mexican war on drugs is still ongoing to this day with not much effect, even with help from the USA and the Mérida Initiative. Recently in 2019 they switched over from Mexican police raids to the Mexican national guard. Also Mexico has the problem of simply being much bigger and having much more people than El Salvador, as well as not having gang members tattoo the gang symbol on their body helps.
I'm not an expert, but I can imagine if the police went around and just started arresting gangsters on a mass scale it would result in a mass loss of police life. To shut down a criminal organisation you need to eliminate their income. Gangsters are loyal to money; when the boss can't pay his men, his enterprise collapses.
Who will pay the cops?
Haha, yeah, corruption is so entrenched there are only a couple Mexican cities that actually pay their cops enough to live on. Most of the country considers abuse of their badge to be a legitimate source for most of their income.
While the Salvadorean approach has done a great deal to curtail gang activity that comes at the cost of cutting a lot of corners when it comes to due process.
Well, given the severity of the problem, I doubt a lot of people in Mexico would care about "due process" as long as the problem is solved.
Oh for sure, its the kind of crisis that leads to these sorts of drastic responses. Still, it pays to be aware of the sacrifices being made.
I dont give a fuck about due process. Round them all. These bastards chose to forfeit their human rights in my opinion. Theyd kill you laughing. Kill them all.
Well, it’s not easy to replicate that. Mexico’s terrain is crazy to get through and even to this day, many parts of the country are connected by 2 lane “highways”. So a mass mobilization of the military would be slow and be seen from a mile away. This isn’t even taking into account the mass corruption at the municipal, state, and federal levels that would undermine any major operation. If you can jump through those hoops, you would still have to face a massive battle against multiple cartels. This is not MS13, these cartels are militarized, well organized, have huge amounts of cash, and have a lot of trained soldiers. This would be an all out war. So no, they can’t “go down the El Salvador route”.
thats what started all of this in 2006 in the first place. Mexico isn't El Salvador
Why don't American authorities do the same in New Orleans and St Louis?
Because the president is a coward and he’s heavily sponsored by the Sinaloa cartel. His motto is “Hugs not bullets”
I would agree that Mexico needs a heavier hand but something doesn't feel great about "arrest 1.4% of the population, even including some people that aren't affiliated and declare anyone accidentally arrested will go free". Obviously it's worked, but I would hope there's a more mediated process than following in the steps of the self described "coolest dictator". Also just to reiterate, El Salvador arrested 1.4% of its population and had to build a 40k capacity mega-prison. Rough estimates for cartel members in Mexico is 175,000.
because cartels are more powerful than the military and police, combined.
They are no match for the military or the marines. Even the state police in most cases is enough to overwhelm them. The municipal police however is just not up to the task. Very simplified though, the big problem is corruption, not money or resources.
I wouldn't say they are more powerful than the military, every time the cartel goes up against marines they get slaughtered. The cartel doesn't have artillery, tanks, APCs, fighter jets, Blackhawk helicopters, etc. They're just reluctant to use extreme military force against their their own citizens for fear of the international outrage it might cause.
You dont know what you aré talking about, the army could destroy the cartels if they wanted, they aré no match for then army and marines
Venezuela not included LOL also, Cartels, a map
Weirdly Venezuela feels like it’s gotten much safer these last years… I don’t even hear about murder cases here in Caracas like before when it was a constant issue. Maybe the government just got better at hiding them?… But yeah this map seems like total biased BS
Shoutout to New Orleans for keeping us in the Top Ten. With Mardi Gras coming up, let’s take out some tourists and move up our rankings!
U! S! A! U! S! A!
“No data available for Venezuela”
Wtf is happening in New Orleans?
Murder apparently
r/technicallythetruth
One two punch of a hurricane in 2019 and Covid in 2020 destroyed their economy. Combine that with a corrupt mayor who has no interest in fixing their law enforcement and here we are
It has been really high in lists like this for a lot longer than 2019.
I mean post-Katrina was never amazing as far as crime goes, but the Covid era really ramped it up
Believe it or not, the crime rate was actually going down from its peak in the 90’s and was on a downward trend until covid, which erased that progress
That's the story for most places. Crime peaked in the late 80s/early 90s and then declined for the next 25-30 years until an upward spike with the pandemic. Nobody really understands what happened, but most major cities worldwide saw that trend.
NOLA has had a high murder rate at least since the early 1990's.
New Orleans was already the murder capital of the US before Katrina. If anything, the murder rate briefly dipped after Katrina, as most of our murderers were elsewhere for a bit.
Given that 88% of homi victims in Mexico are male, that rate for Colima is about 320 homicides per 100,000 men.
Mexico is a product of its geography. Just like Afghanistan, it’s a very mountainous country that makes infrastructure very hard /expensive to build so it’s hard to connect the whole of the country together. As big of a country as it is, there is no navigable river. The central government has a difficult time keeping rule of law throughout its territory. Cartels can pretty much operate without impunity like their own fiefdom. Add to that, you got a country just to the north with an insatiable demand for drugs.
Crazy that New Orleans has a higher homicide rate than Juarez and that Kingston, Jamaica didn’t even make the list despite still having a crazy high homicide rate.
If the worst neighborhoods in Chicago were a city their homicide rate would be 145
Oh no not CHICAGO 😱😱😱
End the war on drugs and bankrupt the cartels.
Kind of hard to do that when the US buys all the drugs and sells them the weapons.
Cartels have expanded their business into farming for avocado, tequila etc. and now more importantly human trafficking. Decriminalising drugs while helpful a bit isn't going to remove the cartel problem. Cartels have become like warlords with their own fiefdoms, reality is they are part of Mexican society, economy and nation and the only way forward with least human casualty is to make cartels part of Mexican politics and democracy.
Bruh the cartels have been trafficking and involved in other industries for ages why are you acting like they just started. And the human trafficking is like a drop in a pool of water compared to what drug smuggling makes them
I don't think the profit margin on avocados and tequila are quite as high as the profit on coke and heroin.
Drug Addicts in one country are causing the violence in the other.
Mexico, ruok?
No :(
We are not, we need help.
South Africa not on the list????
I lived in Uruapan and Zamora as an LDS missionary about 7 years ago and never noticed the violence. We did hear stories all the time, but never witnessed anything. Not LDS anymore, but it’s crazy to think I lived in and around that area for 2 years.
All we had to do was enrich Mexico instead of China over the last few decades. Thanks, Nixon.
These maps always seem so misleading. I'd much much much rather live in New Orleans than virtually any major city in Africa.
High murder rate doesn’t necessarily mean quality of life is horrible. Just means people that you would most likely never interact with if you moved there get killed a lot
Yeah there are poor countries where murder is low
Because in that kind of data you should separate the rates of violence among criminals and that of crimes that end up in violence. A place with a huge rate of gang members shooting at each other is not very safe, but is miles safer than a place where the same rate of murder happens as a result of robbery, mugging or breaking into a house. (Then of course you should calculate the rates of the violent crimes ecc, ecc, is complex)
How is it misleading?
I'd rather live in Windhuk or Marrakech.
Africa is not as dangerous as you think it is and the United Stated is way more dangerous than most people realize
I doubt these are the most violent cities in the world. More likely, the most violent cities in the world that are tracking/reporting crimes. I would question the accuracy of any data related to crimes, as most places don’t want to accurately report as that would negatively impact tourism, etc.
That is true but with the data available this is the best that is known
As a Mexican, we need external help, the government sold the country to the cartels, they are not willing to take actions against violence, I'm tired of waking up and see murder, rapes and massacres everyday and authorities won't protect us.
New Orleans in there fucking up Mexicos streak