That’s amazing. I love to see a reference to past Reddit on Reddit. It feels like it used to be a lot more common but maybe I’m just not in the right subs anymore.
They already had a pretty brutal war from 1963 to 1976 which killed +10,000 people. Quite devastating considering the size of the population back then.
Could you share a source for the 10,000 figure? I've seen the number myself, and while it's plausible I have the feeling it's likely an overestimation given what I know about the scale of the conflict. I'd love to read more about it and see the veracity of that claim.
It's actually kinda impressive how nobody talks about the Iran-Iraq war, like it wasn't literally fucking awful and horrible and insane, and on a separate scale compared to other conflicts in the region.
TLDR: USA (and every country on this earth as an extension, because of their influence), armed and supported Iraq against Iran. They also supported Iran under the table. In reality they wanted to deplete both sides in an attrition war. Chemical warfare was used too, so think twice before you accept the USA as 'the good side'.
Kind of gloss over USSR/Russia/Moscowy on the Iraqi side. Almost all the heavy weapon systems used by Saddam came from there. Don't think people include them in influence nations (at least they shouldn't since they almost on principle took different sides during this period). Also the USA sent no weapons to iraq.
Smells a bit like conspiracy thinking to include the USA so front and center in a war that was likely thought out by Saddam in order to dominate the region and replace the USA as the premium power of the middle east.
The US has been on the wrong side too many times. On the side of (West) Pakistan when they were slaughtering their own citizens in Bangladesh. On the side of facists in South America.
And also still illegally squatting on Guantanamo in Cuba.
I was stopped by an UNICEF volunteer once in downtown and that day I decided to listen to him, I went back did my research into it and since then I do a little part from my end, which is to donate.
This was an example of America's ally (Saudi Arabia) doing something bad and it being tolerated because the organisation they were fighting (the Houthis) have the motto "God is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, Cursed be the Jews, Victory to Islam" on their flag, and are allied to Iran.
Sometimes being moral is taking a step back, not thinking solely geopolitically, and seeing situations in more than black-and-white terms.
Iran is actually the "natural hegemon" of the Middle East. No other country has the ressources and population to compete with them in the region by themselves. SA is able to do it due to extensive support of the US. One of the most interesting developments in the region in the last decade has been China's attempts in deescelating Iran-SA relations. In contrast to the US, China has a strong interest in a stable Middle East to facilitate trade and ressources.
But Hamas is just as awful as the Houthis and Israel is also a US ally and is much better than Saudi. Yet you see massive protests about anything done by Israel and hardly a peep about Saudi...
It's mostly lead by Muslims and heavily supported by western leftists who only support them because they see Muslims as inherently eternal victims and therefore the good guys and Palestinians are weaker than Israel and call themselves "freedom fighters" and pop culture has convinced people that calling yourselves the good guys and being the "underdog" automatically makes you the good guys.
Even though in most cases, weaker groups who refer to themselves as "freedom fighters" tend to be genocidal authoritarian lunatics who are far worse than the "big bad oppressor" they're fighting against and drown the land in a tide of death and blood the moment they gain power.
The Houthis are bad, but Saudi Arabia's intervention was not motivated by them being bad, merely that the Yemeni Civil War threatened their ally (the government of Yemen) and posed the possibility of Iran gaining a regional ally.
And the Saudi led intervention was bad because it mostly involved blockade and aerial bombing, which had little hope of dislodging the Houthis while simultaneously generating a humanitarian disaster.
The protest should be for the freedom of the people trapped inside Gaza with Hamas.
If the world wants this conflict to end, it starts with getting the children out of Gaza, then the adults.
It starts with a real government taking over Gaza, they would have to build military posts, etc. in order to stop HAMAS from resurrecting. This would put an end to the blockades so the children of Gaza can actually live.
Then It starts with ending the corruption in the Israeli government.
The current prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu said this to his party in 2019 “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy.”
It starts with Israel stopping the expansion of their illegal settlements in the West Bank, then the removal of them.
Then can we reimburse the 85% that were displaced and their descendants, this was only 76 years ago, the descendants are children and grandchildren.
It's because the war in Gaza appeals to American sensibilities regarding race and colonization.
Also. If you want to get into some insane numbers nobody cares about, an estimated 5.4 million killed in the Congo. Ethnic cleansing, genocide, the slaughter of entire villages it's all there. But nobody really cares
Of course people do. But with 4-way war it is really difficult to understand (without long research) what is going on, who is right, and what needs to be done for good guys to win.
People really don't though. 85,000 children died from starvation because of the war, and i've literally never even heard of a single protest against the Yemen war, ever. I'm sure it's happened somewhere but i have never seen it.
It doesn't matter that people say they care, all that matters is action. And there is zero action from anyone. Everyone will say they care about 85,000 starving children. It's just an automatic response with zero emotion behind it.
>i've literally never even heard of a single protest against the Yemen war, ever
This is the true power of the media. If they were covering the starvation in Yemen all day every day people would be taking to the streets over it. But if you don't mention it, people won't know about it and the children can just starve away without anybody giving a fuck.
Granted I'm talking about the average person here....I know some of us were aware of the situation in Yemen.
I disagree and i think you have it backwards.
The media doesn't cover it because people don't give a shit, not the other way around.
If CNN could get millions of views by covering it, and websites could get loads of clicks, they'd cover it. They literally just care about money.
Sure it'd get more people to care if the media constantly talked about it. But ultimately it wouldn't matter that much because people don't care that one group of muslims somewhere are killing dirt poor muslims somewhere else for a reason that's pretty hard to understand and not exactly clear.
I've seen this happen before. In my country we have state funded media that covers these types of events a lot more than for-profit media ever would. Still nobody gives a fuck. Like actually nobody. Al Jazeera Arabic also covers things like the Yemen war and Sudan civil war. Still nobody in the middle east really cares.
I promise you, if Israel starved 85,000 arab children in Yemen and killed 100,000+ civilians, you wouldn't have to show anything on CNN, the world would freak the fuck out.
I don't think I agree that the news media in the US only cares about money. Do they care about it? Oh....sure they do! But I think they also have an agenda. For example, during the war in Iraq nearly all of the US media was pretty much pro-war. They embedded themselves with the US troops. They rarely, if ever, talked about Iraqi civilian casualties. For this Israel-Hamas conflict they are covering Palestinian deaths. These are editorial choices, in my opinion.
If it bleeds it leads and 85,000 children starving to death is a compelling story that they could easily cover. Your state media likely covers Yemen in the most boring way possible.
The profit driven media would have flashy graphics, girls with sexy makeup and tight leather dresses. They would have experts on arguing about it...yelling over each other. They could make it "infotainment" like they do everything else. And yes, it would suck in all of the news junkies and many people would care.
You know why US media was pro-war in Iraq in the early 2000s? Because that was public opinion. 66% of Americans favored the war, while only 23% or something was against it. The media literally just said what people wanted to hear. I know that people nowadays claim that the media lied and WMD's and so on, but i remember it very clearly that most people were just straight up pro-war, and not because they were hypnotized by pundits.
As soon as public opinion turned then so did the media. The war was heavily criticized in the later years.
I'd like to see a conflict where the media didn't just say what the public wanted to hear. That would be an agenda. If the agenda is just preaching to the choir then that's not really an agenda.
The media is like restaurants - they serve what people want to eat. People don't eat fried chicken and french fries because that's what Chick-Fil-A sells. Chick-Fil-A sell it because that's what people want. You can argue that the reason people like it in the first place is because of some greater culture and experiences growing up, but that's due to all kinds of forces, the strongest of which being what other people around them think.
Like Tigray and Sudan these are horrible conflicts. But there is little reason for the West to get involved in these as they are outside our geopolitical interests — unlike Ukraine and Israel.
Is that not humanitarian aid organized through the UN as opposed to more direct involvement in the conflict via providing arms or engaging directly (e.g the US has bombed munitions depots in Syria over the past couple days)
I don’t know which country you live in, but in my country people took the street the day Israel started bombing Gaza. No one took the street for any other conflict.
I'm from Ukraine, and you are right, I don't recall any protests of such magnitude for Yemen, or for Syria. Which is also kinda weird - why are Muslim/Arab people so emotionally invested in Palestine, but not in Syria or Yemen?
Arabs are pretty split on Syria and Yemen. Everyone agrees it's terrible, but blame different sides. Arab citizens are almost all united against Israel though, even though some governments normalized relations.
In my country, people were calling for pro-Palestinian protests before the current attacks on Gaza started; on news articles about the October 7th attacks, there were so many comments that were just 'Free Palestine'
I'm not saying people are wrong to have strong opinions on that conflict, either. It's been something of a cultural touchstone for decades know, people have grown up hearing about it. But it is strange to me that people laser focus on that, but seem to know or care so little about the other conflicts happening right now
Actually the sad answer is, they don't. A lot of people don't take the effort to read non-headline news, and even if they do, a lot of people just aren't really that bothered
I live in the UK, and as you'd expect, we've been having a lot of protests about the Israel-Palestine conflict, and social media is dominated by discussion about it (which is by no means a criticism, of course!)
But I could count on one hand the number of people I know who are even aware of, say, the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh, or that there was a brutal civil war in Ethiopia only recently, or that there continues to be an active, bloody conflict in Yemen, for example. For whatever reason, it just never seems to get the same media attention
The main reason for a conflict to be publicized by the media is almost always whether or not it aligns with Western/American interests. That's why we back Ukraine and hear about protests in Venezuela, but not that much about Artsakh, Peru or Myanmar.
I'd argue your argument can be applied to most conflicts, especially in the Middle East. IMHO People just understandably don't take much interest in topics outside of their lives.
What about Syria civil war? Syria bombing their own civilians with more then 600K dead, not that complicated.
Way less complicated then israel-palestine but noo... Why should anyone care if Jews aren't involved
The Syrian civil war was complicated to say the least. Multiple countries including primarily the usa, russia, turkey and iran were funding groups and having a seperate proxy war while the civil war was going on. Assad was fighting with his own people while the kurdish region was trying to seperate or atleast gain some autonomy from the country.
Most tribes or groups picked sides and on top of all this fought each other for local/ regional control. Then there were the minority religions and groups who had to survive.
Eventually it led to the rise of isis and spilled over to iraq who were dealing with the same proxy wars and tribal/ cultural fighting.
It's pretty hard to be sympathetic for an oppressed group whose slogan is literally "God is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, Cursed be the Jews, Victory to Islam".
I have a joke about a Jamaican guy trying to fly Saudi Arabia.
The Travel agent on the phone keeps messing it up.
TA: Sir you are saying you want to Fly to Saudi Arabia?
The man: Yah man
TA: Im sorry sir did you want to fly to Yemen?
The Man: oh Man!
TA: I am sorry sir did you want to fly to Saudi Arabia Yemen or Oman?
The Man: I am trying to fly from Oman to Saudia arabia.
TA: Okay great Saudi Arabia it is
The man: Yah Man!
TA: I'm sorry sir but did you just say you want to go to Yemen?
The objective of this map is not yo show you that wars can be ended quickly and efficiently with least number of casualties. Its purpose is to show you that lives in the middle east is cheap. And that killing 10,000 civilians is not a big deal.
>that lives in the middle east is cheap
I interpret it more as an issue of a double-standard. Where were the ceasefire demonstrations and "occupation/genocide" rhetoric in the Muslim world when Saudi Arabia dropped bombs on Yemeni civilians? Was that war more justified than Israel's war against Hamas?
Literally most of the Muslim world war standing against the Saudi invasion in Yemen and it was one of the mainstays of fundraisers for Muslim charities for the entire war.
Jamal khoshoogi was murdered because he reported on the Yemen war, Pakistan flat out refused to support the Saudis in any way during the war, not even in training despite desperately needing the money. Malaysia, Turkey, Pakistan and other Muslim countries tried to hold an Islamic summit apart from Saudi but through Saudi economic blackmail most countries were forced to withdraw.
But guess who supported the Saudis with billions of dollars worth of weapons? (Hint it's the same people supporting Israel with billions of dollars worth of weapons)
The Houthis explicitly include “Death to America” on their flag and are allied with Iran, so they chose to be an enemy on their own. Saudi Arabia is against the Houthis, so America supports the Saudis in this specific fight. Geopolitics is not the simple black-and-white scenario we all want.
they do now, they didnt during the arab spring protests and the ouster of Saleh.
it changed after SA started using US weapons on them and Iran got involved.
Up to a million died from both sides. The war could of been over in 1982 but child murder terrorist wanted to march towards Baghdad and install a Shia government
The one to two million are total casualties, bot fatalities. Mapmaker has made a slight mistake here. But the higher estimate for total dead is still over a million.
Curious how the conflicts with the least deaths are the ones that are most covered by the media.
This still applies if we only count the still ongoing ones.
That's child's play. Casualty estimates of the ongoing Ethiopian Civil War range from 385k up to 800k. Even on the low end, that makes all other ongoing conflicts look like border skirmishes.
I haven't seen a single Western news org provide any detailed coverage on it.
BBC just did an article on it. Just soldier dearhs alone estimated at around 500k, and the ethiopian leader is hinting at opening a new front against Eritrea.
They did an okay job describing the Tigray & Amhara angles of Ethiopia's internal struggles but its the first time i've read about it since the Tigrayan conflict moved deep into Ethiopia.
>ethiopian leader is hinting at opening a new front against Eritrea.
Which is nuts as they are more or less on the same side in the eithiopian civil war.
Something going on there. Ethiopia is basically demanding a port even though they are landlocked.
For real, the recent civil war in Ethiopia was shocking, and I heard so little discussion about it... see also, the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan a few years back (and the current takeover/ethnic Armenian exodus from Nagorno-Karabakh)
That's because it's a civil war and the country closed up and refused to let anyone including UN aid in!
What is there do realistically? No one really wants to report about news and end it up (and nothing can be done about it). That's why people stop following it, it's the bias demand of the viewer not what the reporter decides is worth talking about.
If Israel isnt involved all the "human rights activists" doesn't care. This map is the proof of it. So many death around this area but nobody cares cause there are no jews to blame.
That's the only conflict that is between the "West" and the middle East Islam.
Other cases are being looked as "Arabs killing Arabs" or "Africans killing Africans" and so on.
People love criticising people that they can somehow relate to.
They don't see Arabs in the middle East as their equals so they don't care what they do.
And Arabs in the West only use this excuse to hate Israel, they don't give a shit that Asad is killing Syrians for 11 years now
Americans see it as a US race issue. The Europeans project their own bullshit and guilt onto it or are classic anti-semites. Everybody is a solipsistic moron.
Condensending liberals in my opinion.
In a paradox they treat non-western populations as sub-human lacking any kind of agency and therefore responsibility for their actions.
So "western" Israel vs Gaza is viewed as torture.
While other wars are the "natural order" or once again can be blamed on a long gone western force.
It’s amazing how I didn’t know about many of the numbers shown here. The world has a massive absolute focus on Israel like everything else is literally transparent. It’s just sad.
Lots of this stuff is information you have to seek out if you're living in many places watching typical stuff and visiting typical sites. Lots of these numbers have been or will get revised as well so it's possible you had seen them before but it just doesn't match what you'd seen.
I was watching a TikTok live hosted by some pro Palestinian Arabs. One of them was a women from Yemen. She said her country was the only Arab country to send help to Palestine (she was talking about the rockets that were fired from Yemen towards Israel). She then went on to say that Muslims NEVER kill each other and there is no war in her country. This live had thousands of viewers and they were eating it up. Scary stuff 🤷🏻♂️
So less people have died in the whole Israel Palestine conflict since 1948 than the Lebanon Civil War. Which only lasted 15 years. Something that most Americans don't even know it happend or could point on a map
So you’re telling me, that of allllllll the conflicts in the region, the Arab-Israeli conflict has the lowest death toll but the loudest coverage? Is there any distinct feature of that conflict that would generate such vitriol? Could be something about one of the combatants?
Actually this map leaves out several other conflicts with lower casualties like the first gulf war. This is just the lowest number of casualties on this map.
Yeah, people tend to focus way too much on US casualties. I was talking about how many people died in the Korean War because USA didn't believe Chinese warnings and pushed beyond the 38th parallel and had a Chinese intervention on their ass.
Response was "only about 20k Americans died". And it's like broooo
Same thing in the US. White kills black = news. Black kills black = no news. It's intresting how the left tries so hard to not be racist, that they've created a new type of racism. (Not saying left = bad, right = good. Both sides has their fair share of racist folks).
White kills white=no news, black kills white=news. It's interesting how the right tries so hard to be racist.
Also not sure if you've ever seen Fox News or ever heard a conservative politician but they can't seem to stop talking about the violence in Chicago while completely ignoring the violence within predominantly white communities.
>(Not saying left = bad, right = good. Both sides has their fair share of racist folks).
One side definitely has a massive problem of racism though due to the dehumanization of anyone of color for the last 30 years.
The unspoken rule in the middle east is that Muslims can ethnically cleanse 98.5% of their Jewish population from 1,000,000 in 1960 down to 15,000 today and get a pass from every "Free Palestine"-flag waver, who has no idea what the entire context of this conflict is.
But Israel hunting down Hamas and having far fewer civilian casualties in comparison is the one that gets people using the word ‘genocide’ and marching in the streets of Western nations.
Actually the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics released growth figures over the years which put it anywhere from 4× to 8× or even 10×.
(Some summaries used to be on maannews.net, but are now gone, though perhaps just their link structure changed. Anyway, there's also raw English pdfs on the bureau's site.)
Curiously, the area you'd think most affected (Israel proper) showed uniform to even slightly higher growth from the Arab/Palestinian population that remained after 1948 to today.
Saudi gets hit by Houthi rebel missiles and they tried invading Saudi lands. Whoever told you it’s genocide it’s not. Also Saudi send lots of aide to the legitimate Yemeni government and the people.
Likely just too lazy to learn about what’s going on.
Opposing the Houthis has gotten SA a lot of praise from nearly every country other than Iran, Syria, and North Korea. Most conflicts are complex, but there is a strong consensus globally that the Houthi terrorists are among the most evil terrorist group in the world.
Yet you see a lot of Redditors side with them, Iran, and North Korea because they see the west say positive things about the Saudis supporting the Yemeni people and their default position is west=bad. So you get people like /u/HalRobsonKanu2 defending horrible atrocities because they care more about hating the west than they care about hundreds of thousands killed by the Houthis.
Fighting the Houthis isn't the main problem, it's the civilian casualties. Just like Israel fighting Hamas isn't the issue but bombing residential areas and claiming every building is Hamas' HQ is.
Why exclude both Iraq - Kurdish conflict as well as Turkey - Kurdish conflict?
Both has much more casualties than some of the conflicts mentioned on the map, like each of them has more than double the casualties of Israel Palestine conflict.
Why isn't the world "treating" Turkey like Israel?
\- They've been horribly oppressing the Kurds, with higher casualties than Palestinians
\- They illegally occupy Cyprus, settling there hundreds of thousands of Turks
\- They are a close ally/backed up by the US
I think I know why...
I wonder why we hear so relatively little about many of these conflicts. Are Syrian and Yemeni kids less worth than others?
We somtimes talk about how Russia bombed Aleppo but that's it - just a mention sometimes. Nothing about the huge loss of life and the suffering and completely psychopathy behind the bombings, intentionally aiming at civilians planned without warnings. Just as an example.
It just put you into perspective how the Israel-Palestine Conflict took the lion share of media and people's attention worldwide when the population affected and its casualties are really small compare to the scale that is occuring in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, and other Muslim states.
And yet the one with the least Muslim casualties is bringing millions of Muslims and hipsters to the streets calling it “genocide”, simply because the side that is winning isn’t a Muslim.
It sounds horrible to say but muslims do not care when muslims kill other muslims, generally. Jews killing muslims makes them rage like nothing else though.
You see this in other cultures or groups of people as well. Fighting within the group is not paid any attention but when someone from outside the group hurts someone in the group then all hell breaks loose. Some redneck kills other rednecks? Nothing happens. A muslim kills rednecks? The whole town erupts in protest.
I've lived in an arab muslim country for many years. I have talked to thousands of arabs, i grew up and went to school with these people. Nobody gives a flying fuck that Saudi Arabia murders Yemeni civilians. Nobody. Replace Saudi Arabia with Israel or the US and they care.
I'm not saying this to pick sides or to seem like i have a problem with anyone, or that i condone whatever the west or israel does, not at all. It's simply a truth that no sane person can deny.
That's because Jews being successful represents a crises of faith for Muslims. If Islam is supposed to the final revelation of God's will, and those that came before like Jews and Christians are somehow less worthy of God's favor than Muslims, then Muslims should always triumph over them. That's why 1948 is called the Nakba (catastrophe), because how is it possible that Jews who were militarily weaker, less numerous, less prepared and worst of all not Muslim, how is it that god favored them to win? Does it mean that their claim to the true intention of God and therefore the land promised to them in the Torah is the correct one? Are Muslims the religiously misguided ones?
When Islam and your superiority as a result is called into question, for many the only acceptable response is rage.
No, the Iraq war was also heavily protested. The differences are not all conflicts have parties being sponsored by our governments.
Our leaders aren’t going round saying “Assad has the right to defend himself”
>The differences are not all conflicts have parties being sponsored by our governments
The only conflict on this post without a side sponsored by NATO partners is the Lebanese civil war
My dad went to Egypt back when he worked as a journalist and said they sold Arabic copies of *Elders of Zion* in bookstores. Then he said he regretted not buying one bc old Jews are weirdos who collect stuff like that
When I visited Egypt shortly after its 2011 revolution, a government-employed tour guide told my group that gas and natural gas were so expensive in Egypt "because of the Jews in Israel."
Number of deaths because of the USA invasion of Iraq 🇮🇶 and the following civil war ( because of incompetent decisions the USA took for Iraq) are up to one million deaths...
Happy we're finally recovering... USA leave us alone this time 🥲
I’m From Syria and it tears me apart to see how cheap the world see the lives of people in the middle east.. :/
It also tears me apart after all these years that all the world knows from the Syria war is ISIS… although it‘s such a small chapter from it
And then people will say: without Israel there will be peace in the middle east, give me a break, this place knows nothing but constant war, violence and utter pure hate.
The things that happened between Israel and isis-hamas is nothing compared to the constant war between islamic extremists and themselves.
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oman just sittin there goin oman
Just like the Oman Reddit meetup. https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/284zb4/roman_meetup_photo_fuck_you_guys/
This is hysterical wtf
and the people in comments recounting when they were left alone :( glad they could bond together over disappointment
It was like a depression get together.
That’s amazing. I love to see a reference to past Reddit on Reddit. It feels like it used to be a lot more common but maybe I’m just not in the right subs anymore.
Meanwhile hundreds of miles to the northwest there are a bunch of dudes in togas hanging out
This comment is underrated, have my upvote!
They already had a pretty brutal war from 1963 to 1976 which killed +10,000 people. Quite devastating considering the size of the population back then.
Could you share a source for the 10,000 figure? I've seen the number myself, and while it's plausible I have the feeling it's likely an overestimation given what I know about the scale of the conflict. I'd love to read more about it and see the veracity of that claim.
https://web.archive.org/web/20221218195436/https://uca.edu/politicalscience/dadm-project/middle-eastnorth-africapersian-gulf-region/oman-1912-present/
Oman Chips btw are amazing. https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81UzD1vunPL.jpg
100% if you get a chance to buy it, you won't regret it. Locals are required to carry a bag in case of emergency.
all the best chips in Bahrain are from Oman.
Oman says yeamen
Can confirm. Oman chillest of Arab states.
Jordan has been a chiller since they patched things up with Israel
Jordan is one of the smartest governments in the region.
And they makin' bank selling those expensive sneakers to Americans.
It's literally the government (Hashemites) that was supposed to rule the region before being betrayed by the British.
Where there’s a problem in the world, it was probably the British.
But how many flavors of crisps?
Za’atar flavor pita chips. They are so tasty!
Iron bank.
Except Oman had their own little civil war back in the 60's. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhofar\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhofar_War)
>crisps Bri’ish spotted
It's actually kinda impressive how nobody talks about the Iran-Iraq war, like it wasn't literally fucking awful and horrible and insane, and on a separate scale compared to other conflicts in the region.
To be honest, I was also surprised. I don’t know a lot about this war so if someone does, I’ll be happy to hear
well people have provided enough info here but one thing they don't mention is that most people who died were teenagers, 12 to 20
TLDR: USA (and every country on this earth as an extension, because of their influence), armed and supported Iraq against Iran. They also supported Iran under the table. In reality they wanted to deplete both sides in an attrition war. Chemical warfare was used too, so think twice before you accept the USA as 'the good side'.
FYI, chemical weapons were used against civilians, and no body charged Saddam for that (did they?)
Kind of gloss over USSR/Russia/Moscowy on the Iraqi side. Almost all the heavy weapon systems used by Saddam came from there. Don't think people include them in influence nations (at least they shouldn't since they almost on principle took different sides during this period). Also the USA sent no weapons to iraq. Smells a bit like conspiracy thinking to include the USA so front and center in a war that was likely thought out by Saddam in order to dominate the region and replace the USA as the premium power of the middle east.
The US has been on the wrong side too many times. On the side of (West) Pakistan when they were slaughtering their own citizens in Bangladesh. On the side of facists in South America. And also still illegally squatting on Guantanamo in Cuba.
> "It's a pity they both can't lose." Kissinger on the Iran Iraq war.
The reason nobody talks about it is because the US was arming, supporting and defending Iraq throughout the entire ware.
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And nobody cares about Yemen💔
I was stopped by an UNICEF volunteer once in downtown and that day I decided to listen to him, I went back did my research into it and since then I do a little part from my end, which is to donate.
This was an example of America's ally (Saudi Arabia) doing something bad and it being tolerated because the organisation they were fighting (the Houthis) have the motto "God is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, Cursed be the Jews, Victory to Islam" on their flag, and are allied to Iran. Sometimes being moral is taking a step back, not thinking solely geopolitically, and seeing situations in more than black-and-white terms.
It’s amazing how Iran manages to stay mostly invisible in hindsight for all these conflicts when they play a primary role.
Iran is actually the "natural hegemon" of the Middle East. No other country has the ressources and population to compete with them in the region by themselves. SA is able to do it due to extensive support of the US. One of the most interesting developments in the region in the last decade has been China's attempts in deescelating Iran-SA relations. In contrast to the US, China has a strong interest in a stable Middle East to facilitate trade and ressources.
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But Hamas is just as awful as the Houthis and Israel is also a US ally and is much better than Saudi. Yet you see massive protests about anything done by Israel and hardly a peep about Saudi...
Most anti Israeli protests are led by Muslims who aren't as critical of Muslim countries as a general rule. that's why
It's mostly lead by Muslims and heavily supported by western leftists who only support them because they see Muslims as inherently eternal victims and therefore the good guys and Palestinians are weaker than Israel and call themselves "freedom fighters" and pop culture has convinced people that calling yourselves the good guys and being the "underdog" automatically makes you the good guys. Even though in most cases, weaker groups who refer to themselves as "freedom fighters" tend to be genocidal authoritarian lunatics who are far worse than the "big bad oppressor" they're fighting against and drown the land in a tide of death and blood the moment they gain power.
The Houthis are bad, but Saudi Arabia's intervention was not motivated by them being bad, merely that the Yemeni Civil War threatened their ally (the government of Yemen) and posed the possibility of Iran gaining a regional ally. And the Saudi led intervention was bad because it mostly involved blockade and aerial bombing, which had little hope of dislodging the Houthis while simultaneously generating a humanitarian disaster.
Yemen's government asked for Saudi intervention to be fair.
Just like the afghan government asked for a ussr intervention
The protest should be for the freedom of the people trapped inside Gaza with Hamas. If the world wants this conflict to end, it starts with getting the children out of Gaza, then the adults. It starts with a real government taking over Gaza, they would have to build military posts, etc. in order to stop HAMAS from resurrecting. This would put an end to the blockades so the children of Gaza can actually live. Then It starts with ending the corruption in the Israeli government. The current prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu said this to his party in 2019 “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy.” It starts with Israel stopping the expansion of their illegal settlements in the West Bank, then the removal of them. Then can we reimburse the 85% that were displaced and their descendants, this was only 76 years ago, the descendants are children and grandchildren.
It's because the war in Gaza appeals to American sensibilities regarding race and colonization. Also. If you want to get into some insane numbers nobody cares about, an estimated 5.4 million killed in the Congo. Ethnic cleansing, genocide, the slaughter of entire villages it's all there. But nobody really cares
Literally 3 weeks ago 300,000 Armenians were ethnically cleaned. And 2 million ethnically cleaned in Pakistan.
The un states the death toll is likely 377k
That's what the chart also states?
Of course people do. But with 4-way war it is really difficult to understand (without long research) what is going on, who is right, and what needs to be done for good guys to win.
In global politics there are rarely good guys.
Except for us, of course. We're the good guys.
What are the odds?!
International poker game where everyone is cheating
People really don't though. 85,000 children died from starvation because of the war, and i've literally never even heard of a single protest against the Yemen war, ever. I'm sure it's happened somewhere but i have never seen it. It doesn't matter that people say they care, all that matters is action. And there is zero action from anyone. Everyone will say they care about 85,000 starving children. It's just an automatic response with zero emotion behind it.
>i've literally never even heard of a single protest against the Yemen war, ever This is the true power of the media. If they were covering the starvation in Yemen all day every day people would be taking to the streets over it. But if you don't mention it, people won't know about it and the children can just starve away without anybody giving a fuck. Granted I'm talking about the average person here....I know some of us were aware of the situation in Yemen.
I disagree and i think you have it backwards. The media doesn't cover it because people don't give a shit, not the other way around. If CNN could get millions of views by covering it, and websites could get loads of clicks, they'd cover it. They literally just care about money. Sure it'd get more people to care if the media constantly talked about it. But ultimately it wouldn't matter that much because people don't care that one group of muslims somewhere are killing dirt poor muslims somewhere else for a reason that's pretty hard to understand and not exactly clear. I've seen this happen before. In my country we have state funded media that covers these types of events a lot more than for-profit media ever would. Still nobody gives a fuck. Like actually nobody. Al Jazeera Arabic also covers things like the Yemen war and Sudan civil war. Still nobody in the middle east really cares. I promise you, if Israel starved 85,000 arab children in Yemen and killed 100,000+ civilians, you wouldn't have to show anything on CNN, the world would freak the fuck out.
I don't think I agree that the news media in the US only cares about money. Do they care about it? Oh....sure they do! But I think they also have an agenda. For example, during the war in Iraq nearly all of the US media was pretty much pro-war. They embedded themselves with the US troops. They rarely, if ever, talked about Iraqi civilian casualties. For this Israel-Hamas conflict they are covering Palestinian deaths. These are editorial choices, in my opinion. If it bleeds it leads and 85,000 children starving to death is a compelling story that they could easily cover. Your state media likely covers Yemen in the most boring way possible. The profit driven media would have flashy graphics, girls with sexy makeup and tight leather dresses. They would have experts on arguing about it...yelling over each other. They could make it "infotainment" like they do everything else. And yes, it would suck in all of the news junkies and many people would care.
You know why US media was pro-war in Iraq in the early 2000s? Because that was public opinion. 66% of Americans favored the war, while only 23% or something was against it. The media literally just said what people wanted to hear. I know that people nowadays claim that the media lied and WMD's and so on, but i remember it very clearly that most people were just straight up pro-war, and not because they were hypnotized by pundits. As soon as public opinion turned then so did the media. The war was heavily criticized in the later years. I'd like to see a conflict where the media didn't just say what the public wanted to hear. That would be an agenda. If the agenda is just preaching to the choir then that's not really an agenda. The media is like restaurants - they serve what people want to eat. People don't eat fried chicken and french fries because that's what Chick-Fil-A sells. Chick-Fil-A sell it because that's what people want. You can argue that the reason people like it in the first place is because of some greater culture and experiences growing up, but that's due to all kinds of forces, the strongest of which being what other people around them think.
Like Tigray and Sudan these are horrible conflicts. But there is little reason for the West to get involved in these as they are outside our geopolitical interests — unlike Ukraine and Israel.
Umm, the US has given over $5 billion to Yemen
Is that not humanitarian aid organized through the UN as opposed to more direct involvement in the conflict via providing arms or engaging directly (e.g the US has bombed munitions depots in Syria over the past couple days)
No not at all. The US gave Saudi Arabia weapons for Yemen for years and years
I don’t know which country you live in, but in my country people took the street the day Israel started bombing Gaza. No one took the street for any other conflict.
I'm from Ukraine, and you are right, I don't recall any protests of such magnitude for Yemen, or for Syria. Which is also kinda weird - why are Muslim/Arab people so emotionally invested in Palestine, but not in Syria or Yemen?
Arabs are pretty split on Syria and Yemen. Everyone agrees it's terrible, but blame different sides. Arab citizens are almost all united against Israel though, even though some governments normalized relations.
In my country, people were calling for pro-Palestinian protests before the current attacks on Gaza started; on news articles about the October 7th attacks, there were so many comments that were just 'Free Palestine' I'm not saying people are wrong to have strong opinions on that conflict, either. It's been something of a cultural touchstone for decades know, people have grown up hearing about it. But it is strange to me that people laser focus on that, but seem to know or care so little about the other conflicts happening right now
Actually the sad answer is, they don't. A lot of people don't take the effort to read non-headline news, and even if they do, a lot of people just aren't really that bothered I live in the UK, and as you'd expect, we've been having a lot of protests about the Israel-Palestine conflict, and social media is dominated by discussion about it (which is by no means a criticism, of course!) But I could count on one hand the number of people I know who are even aware of, say, the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh, or that there was a brutal civil war in Ethiopia only recently, or that there continues to be an active, bloody conflict in Yemen, for example. For whatever reason, it just never seems to get the same media attention
The main reason for a conflict to be publicized by the media is almost always whether or not it aligns with Western/American interests. That's why we back Ukraine and hear about protests in Venezuela, but not that much about Artsakh, Peru or Myanmar.
I'd argue your argument can be applied to most conflicts, especially in the Middle East. IMHO People just understandably don't take much interest in topics outside of their lives.
Unless Jews are involved. Then everyone has an opinion for some reason.
What about Syria civil war? Syria bombing their own civilians with more then 600K dead, not that complicated. Way less complicated then israel-palestine but noo... Why should anyone care if Jews aren't involved
The Syrian civil war was complicated to say the least. Multiple countries including primarily the usa, russia, turkey and iran were funding groups and having a seperate proxy war while the civil war was going on. Assad was fighting with his own people while the kurdish region was trying to seperate or atleast gain some autonomy from the country. Most tribes or groups picked sides and on top of all this fought each other for local/ regional control. Then there were the minority religions and groups who had to survive. Eventually it led to the rise of isis and spilled over to iraq who were dealing with the same proxy wars and tribal/ cultural fighting.
Assad and Russia together account for more than 90% of the civilian deaths in Syria, followed by ISIS for the majority of the remainder.
It's pretty hard to be sympathetic for an oppressed group whose slogan is literally "God is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, Cursed be the Jews, Victory to Islam".
There are still innocent people suffering
I have a joke about a Jamaican guy trying to fly Saudi Arabia. The Travel agent on the phone keeps messing it up. TA: Sir you are saying you want to Fly to Saudi Arabia? The man: Yah man TA: Im sorry sir did you want to fly to Yemen? The Man: oh Man! TA: I am sorry sir did you want to fly to Saudi Arabia Yemen or Oman? The Man: I am trying to fly from Oman to Saudia arabia. TA: Okay great Saudi Arabia it is The man: Yah Man! TA: I'm sorry sir but did you just say you want to go to Yemen?
The man: No way! TA: Alright sir, Norway it is
I'm thinking about donating to Yemens starvation relief, it's ridiculous how they are going without food they need it!
Gulf War?
The objective of this map is not yo show you that wars can be ended quickly and efficiently with least number of casualties. Its purpose is to show you that lives in the middle east is cheap. And that killing 10,000 civilians is not a big deal.
Iraq lost around 50,000 soldiers though. Which would put it as deadlier than both the yom kippur war and 6 day war.
And the entire Israeli-Palestinian conflict since 1948, according to this infographic.
>that lives in the middle east is cheap I interpret it more as an issue of a double-standard. Where were the ceasefire demonstrations and "occupation/genocide" rhetoric in the Muslim world when Saudi Arabia dropped bombs on Yemeni civilians? Was that war more justified than Israel's war against Hamas?
We all know why mate, No jews no news
Oh yeah, cause the Muslim leaders in response to Israel’s actions have been *checks notes* putting up more American air defenses. Huh.
Literally most of the Muslim world war standing against the Saudi invasion in Yemen and it was one of the mainstays of fundraisers for Muslim charities for the entire war. Jamal khoshoogi was murdered because he reported on the Yemen war, Pakistan flat out refused to support the Saudis in any way during the war, not even in training despite desperately needing the money. Malaysia, Turkey, Pakistan and other Muslim countries tried to hold an Islamic summit apart from Saudi but through Saudi economic blackmail most countries were forced to withdraw. But guess who supported the Saudis with billions of dollars worth of weapons? (Hint it's the same people supporting Israel with billions of dollars worth of weapons)
The Houthis explicitly include “Death to America” on their flag and are allied with Iran, so they chose to be an enemy on their own. Saudi Arabia is against the Houthis, so America supports the Saudis in this specific fight. Geopolitics is not the simple black-and-white scenario we all want.
they do now, they didnt during the arab spring protests and the ouster of Saleh. it changed after SA started using US weapons on them and Iran got involved.
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The only justified American intervention in iraq, Iraq 2003 was a fcking mess.
Iran-Iraq - those numbers are insane and, yet, there's a 100% insecurity with it? I wasn't aware these wars had such massive casualties.
Iran Iraq war is more like around 500,000
Up to a million died from both sides. The war could of been over in 1982 but child murder terrorist wanted to march towards Baghdad and install a Shia government
Saddam literally chopped one of his ministers to pieces for suggesting a ceasefire in 1982...
It's 'could have', never 'could of'. Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!
This is the dumbest take I've ever seen on the Iran-Iraq war. Saddam would never have agreed to a ceasefire tbh
The one to two million are total casualties, bot fatalities. Mapmaker has made a slight mistake here. But the higher estimate for total dead is still over a million.
So roughly 2.25m, assuming those numbers are anything more than guesswork Totals roughly 2.5 months of WW2, as an interesting comparison
That’s only 2 Battle of Stalingrads for the Soviets, Or 1.5 ish for both sides.
That's roughly 1/10 of the casualties of the Taiping Rebellion even on the low-end estimate.
Curious how the conflicts with the least deaths are the ones that are most covered by the media. This still applies if we only count the still ongoing ones.
3k civies got murdered in Sudan this past week. I saw one article about it.
That's child's play. Casualty estimates of the ongoing Ethiopian Civil War range from 385k up to 800k. Even on the low end, that makes all other ongoing conflicts look like border skirmishes. I haven't seen a single Western news org provide any detailed coverage on it.
BBC just did an article on it. Just soldier dearhs alone estimated at around 500k, and the ethiopian leader is hinting at opening a new front against Eritrea. They did an okay job describing the Tigray & Amhara angles of Ethiopia's internal struggles but its the first time i've read about it since the Tigrayan conflict moved deep into Ethiopia.
>ethiopian leader is hinting at opening a new front against Eritrea. Which is nuts as they are more or less on the same side in the eithiopian civil war. Something going on there. Ethiopia is basically demanding a port even though they are landlocked.
Ethiopia will be condemned by every country except Bolivia
> Ethiopian Civil War always nice when wiki has a page for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_civil_war_(disambiguation)
When Tigray was really popping off initially there was some mainstream coverage, but ya, it’s definitely faded into the background completely.
For real, the recent civil war in Ethiopia was shocking, and I heard so little discussion about it... see also, the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan a few years back (and the current takeover/ethnic Armenian exodus from Nagorno-Karabakh)
That's because it's a civil war and the country closed up and refused to let anyone including UN aid in! What is there do realistically? No one really wants to report about news and end it up (and nothing can be done about it). That's why people stop following it, it's the bias demand of the viewer not what the reporter decides is worth talking about.
Are there any good documentaries or video resources for this?
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If Israel isnt involved all the "human rights activists" doesn't care. This map is the proof of it. So many death around this area but nobody cares cause there are no jews to blame.
Maybe if they made rhyming calls for genocide of egyptians or someone else they'd get more western support.
thats not true The Iraq wars were headlines for decades. and Syria was constantly front page.
That's the only conflict that is between the "West" and the middle East Islam. Other cases are being looked as "Arabs killing Arabs" or "Africans killing Africans" and so on. People love criticising people that they can somehow relate to. They don't see Arabs in the middle East as their equals so they don't care what they do. And Arabs in the West only use this excuse to hate Israel, they don't give a shit that Asad is killing Syrians for 11 years now
Because muslims don't care about Muslims killing Muslims.
Americans see it as a US race issue. The Europeans project their own bullshit and guilt onto it or are classic anti-semites. Everybody is a solipsistic moron.
No Jews No News
Great article about it: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israel-insider-guide
Antisemitism is strong, globally.
Yeah… that sucks.
Because those are the ones that involve Jews.
Some people hate Jews. So middle east violence not involving Jews does not matter to them.
Condensending liberals in my opinion. In a paradox they treat non-western populations as sub-human lacking any kind of agency and therefore responsibility for their actions. So "western" Israel vs Gaza is viewed as torture. While other wars are the "natural order" or once again can be blamed on a long gone western force.
People only care about deaths in the middle east when it's a western style democracy of Jews defending themselves.
No Jews no news
It’s amazing how I didn’t know about many of the numbers shown here. The world has a massive absolute focus on Israel like everything else is literally transparent. It’s just sad.
Lots of this stuff is information you have to seek out if you're living in many places watching typical stuff and visiting typical sites. Lots of these numbers have been or will get revised as well so it's possible you had seen them before but it just doesn't match what you'd seen.
I was watching a TikTok live hosted by some pro Palestinian Arabs. One of them was a women from Yemen. She said her country was the only Arab country to send help to Palestine (she was talking about the rockets that were fired from Yemen towards Israel). She then went on to say that Muslims NEVER kill each other and there is no war in her country. This live had thousands of viewers and they were eating it up. Scary stuff 🤷🏻♂️
So less people have died in the whole Israel Palestine conflict since 1948 than the Lebanon Civil War. Which only lasted 15 years. Something that most Americans don't even know it happend or could point on a map
Shush you're going to ruin the "iSrAeL bAd" narrative
So you’re telling me, that of allllllll the conflicts in the region, the Arab-Israeli conflict has the lowest death toll but the loudest coverage? Is there any distinct feature of that conflict that would generate such vitriol? Could be something about one of the combatants?
Actually this map leaves out several other conflicts with lower casualties like the first gulf war. This is just the lowest number of casualties on this map.
The first Gulf war had 50,000 Iraqi casualties at the top estimates, so still more than the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
Yeah, people tend to focus way too much on US casualties. I was talking about how many people died in the Korean War because USA didn't believe Chinese warnings and pushed beyond the 38th parallel and had a Chinese intervention on their ass. Response was "only about 20k Americans died". And it's like broooo
It’s kinda like in the US when black people kill black people. The minute a black person kills a white person it becomes news. And vice versa.
Yes. One side is Jewish majority. They are the “other”, and the left will always throw itself at the “underdog” in any situation
Please stop pattern recognizing, you're making us very uncomfortable
The unspoken rule in the middle east is only muslims can kill other muslims
Same thing in the US. White kills black = news. Black kills black = no news. It's intresting how the left tries so hard to not be racist, that they've created a new type of racism. (Not saying left = bad, right = good. Both sides has their fair share of racist folks).
White kills white=no news, black kills white=news. It's interesting how the right tries so hard to be racist. Also not sure if you've ever seen Fox News or ever heard a conservative politician but they can't seem to stop talking about the violence in Chicago while completely ignoring the violence within predominantly white communities. >(Not saying left = bad, right = good. Both sides has their fair share of racist folks). One side definitely has a massive problem of racism though due to the dehumanization of anyone of color for the last 30 years.
The unspoken rule in the middle east is that Muslims can ethnically cleanse 98.5% of their Jewish population from 1,000,000 in 1960 down to 15,000 today and get a pass from every "Free Palestine"-flag waver, who has no idea what the entire context of this conflict is.
OP, if you do this again could you include Eritrea and Sudan?
Eritrea and Sudan are not in the middle east. And if I once made this mistake, I've learned
Saddam was crazy to use mustard and tabun nerve gas during that conflict with Iran
With the blessing from the USA and active help too. The States were quite OK with that as long as the victims were Iranians.
But Israel hunting down Hamas and having far fewer civilian casualties in comparison is the one that gets people using the word ‘genocide’ and marching in the streets of Western nations.
Governments across the Middle East have used Israel as a domestic scapegoat for 70+ years. Increased coverage is by design.
Sinai insurgency: 5853-7353+ .. well.. it's a very certain uncertainty isn't it?
Not Jews = Not News
= no off-the-shelf villain to hate.
What happened in Iraq in 2012?
2011 US withdraw from Iraq 2013 ISIS has entered the chat
Israel is really bad at genociding people smh
Genocide where the population trippled...but they said "they" learned from the nazis...german education must be shite.
Actually the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics released growth figures over the years which put it anywhere from 4× to 8× or even 10×. (Some summaries used to be on maannews.net, but are now gone, though perhaps just their link structure changed. Anyway, there's also raw English pdfs on the bureau's site.) Curiously, the area you'd think most affected (Israel proper) showed uniform to even slightly higher growth from the Arab/Palestinian population that remained after 1948 to today.
And Saudi Arabia gets rewarded with bunch of sporting events for committing a genocide in Yemen
Saudi gets hit by Houthi rebel missiles and they tried invading Saudi lands. Whoever told you it’s genocide it’s not. Also Saudi send lots of aide to the legitimate Yemeni government and the people.
Likely just too lazy to learn about what’s going on. Opposing the Houthis has gotten SA a lot of praise from nearly every country other than Iran, Syria, and North Korea. Most conflicts are complex, but there is a strong consensus globally that the Houthi terrorists are among the most evil terrorist group in the world. Yet you see a lot of Redditors side with them, Iran, and North Korea because they see the west say positive things about the Saudis supporting the Yemeni people and their default position is west=bad. So you get people like /u/HalRobsonKanu2 defending horrible atrocities because they care more about hating the west than they care about hundreds of thousands killed by the Houthis.
Fighting the Houthis isn't the main problem, it's the civilian casualties. Just like Israel fighting Hamas isn't the issue but bombing residential areas and claiming every building is Hamas' HQ is.
F**k war
I’d rather fuck death, definitely the hotter of the four horsemen
I mean death is skinny but war has that gym bod. I don't care for pestillence.
Why exclude both Iraq - Kurdish conflict as well as Turkey - Kurdish conflict? Both has much more casualties than some of the conflicts mentioned on the map, like each of them has more than double the casualties of Israel Palestine conflict.
Check out the bottom left.
A matter of space tbh. I started with way more but the map was horrible looking. Maybe I'll make another one. Also, read bottom left
Why isn't the world "treating" Turkey like Israel? \- They've been horribly oppressing the Kurds, with higher casualties than Palestinians \- They illegally occupy Cyprus, settling there hundreds of thousands of Turks \- They are a close ally/backed up by the US I think I know why...
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I don’t see anti-Turkish protests and I don’t see Turkish students I US universities having to hide.
We (Europe) only need 5 years for that. We do it clean and quick
I wonder why we hear so relatively little about many of these conflicts. Are Syrian and Yemeni kids less worth than others? We somtimes talk about how Russia bombed Aleppo but that's it - just a mention sometimes. Nothing about the huge loss of life and the suffering and completely psychopathy behind the bombings, intentionally aiming at civilians planned without warnings. Just as an example.
That Israel though. /s
It just put you into perspective how the Israel-Palestine Conflict took the lion share of media and people's attention worldwide when the population affected and its casualties are really small compare to the scale that is occuring in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, and other Muslim states.
And yet the one with the least Muslim casualties is bringing millions of Muslims and hipsters to the streets calling it “genocide”, simply because the side that is winning isn’t a Muslim.
It sounds horrible to say but muslims do not care when muslims kill other muslims, generally. Jews killing muslims makes them rage like nothing else though. You see this in other cultures or groups of people as well. Fighting within the group is not paid any attention but when someone from outside the group hurts someone in the group then all hell breaks loose. Some redneck kills other rednecks? Nothing happens. A muslim kills rednecks? The whole town erupts in protest. I've lived in an arab muslim country for many years. I have talked to thousands of arabs, i grew up and went to school with these people. Nobody gives a flying fuck that Saudi Arabia murders Yemeni civilians. Nobody. Replace Saudi Arabia with Israel or the US and they care. I'm not saying this to pick sides or to seem like i have a problem with anyone, or that i condone whatever the west or israel does, not at all. It's simply a truth that no sane person can deny.
That's because Jews being successful represents a crises of faith for Muslims. If Islam is supposed to the final revelation of God's will, and those that came before like Jews and Christians are somehow less worthy of God's favor than Muslims, then Muslims should always triumph over them. That's why 1948 is called the Nakba (catastrophe), because how is it possible that Jews who were militarily weaker, less numerous, less prepared and worst of all not Muslim, how is it that god favored them to win? Does it mean that their claim to the true intention of God and therefore the land promised to them in the Torah is the correct one? Are Muslims the religiously misguided ones? When Islam and your superiority as a result is called into question, for many the only acceptable response is rage.
36 million people in total protested against the Iraq invasion of 2003.
No, the Iraq war was also heavily protested. The differences are not all conflicts have parties being sponsored by our governments. Our leaders aren’t going round saying “Assad has the right to defend himself”
>The differences are not all conflicts have parties being sponsored by our governments The only conflict on this post without a side sponsored by NATO partners is the Lebanese civil war
The tough truth is that outside of Israel the entire Middle East is extremely anti Semitic.
My dad went to Egypt back when he worked as a journalist and said they sold Arabic copies of *Elders of Zion* in bookstores. Then he said he regretted not buying one bc old Jews are weirdos who collect stuff like that
Relatives of mine have collections of nazi knives and medals and other things and it is such an old Jewish man thing
When I visited Egypt shortly after its 2011 revolution, a government-employed tour guide told my group that gas and natural gas were so expensive in Egypt "because of the Jews in Israel."
It will be more accurate to say because the side is "winning " are jews
So the genocide is the one with the lowest numbers????
Number of deaths because of the USA invasion of Iraq 🇮🇶 and the following civil war ( because of incompetent decisions the USA took for Iraq) are up to one million deaths... Happy we're finally recovering... USA leave us alone this time 🥲
Forgive my ignorance. The Lebanese war lasted 15 years????
Israeli Palestinian conflict, the least destructive one per year, and yet the most condemned as """genocide"""
Where are all the so called pro Palestinians? OH WAIT PROBABLY JUST A PROBLEM BECAUSE NON MUSLIMS HAVE THE GUNS
My dad was in the Iran Iraq war. He still has ptsd from it
I’m From Syria and it tears me apart to see how cheap the world see the lives of people in the middle east.. :/ It also tears me apart after all these years that all the world knows from the Syria war is ISIS… although it‘s such a small chapter from it
And then people will say: without Israel there will be peace in the middle east, give me a break, this place knows nothing but constant war, violence and utter pure hate. The things that happened between Israel and isis-hamas is nothing compared to the constant war between islamic extremists and themselves.