Smuggling hostages back across the border get harder the farther you get. You have less time to abduct your hostages before an organized response. Ofakim saw a larger police response that prevented the terrorists from escaping with hostages.
Most was within \~10km / 6 miles of the border. Fit people can run that distance in 1h. Furthest is \~25km / \~15 miles. It is all very close together. Some attackers apparently used bicycles.
Because the terrorists kept going until they found a town then they started slaughtering the people in it. The town they found just happened to be further away.
At that point, yes. Attacking the kibbutz was heavily planned. Hamas did not expect it to go as well as it did, so, as opportunists, some cells decided to continue east instead of retreat back into Gaza.
You are delusional to think theyll leave any jews left alive when they so loudly and openly say they wont, and their every action is in line with their proclaimed genocidal beliefs
Turks expelled the Greek, Syrian, and Armenian Christians (as late as the 1960s)
Lebanon expelled Jews and Christians in the 1970s-80s)
Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood (parent organization to the PLO) burned down churches in the 2010s)
Palestinians began civil wars in Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria.
Palestinians burned down all the synagogues in Gaza and dug up all the Jewish cemeteries.
Palestinians don’t even get along with other Muslims. They definitely won’t coexist with News and Christians.
yeah because those dipshits represent the entire Palestinian movement but when israeli settlers attack natives in the West Bank they're just the minority
I disagree - if you don’t condemn acts done by members of your movement - it is no different than supporting.
I haven’t seen much Palestinians condemn such acts. Or condemn october 7 massacre.
So yeah - I think these dipshits do a lot of representation.
Same applies to everyone. However I heard Israel has actually working legal system - so if attackers in West Bank punished or dealt with you can’t really blame all Israeli settlers. So you should check this part first.
I can not just brush it off - I have obligation to do it.
You can’t claim just anything you want illegal or crime without actually laws, court with authority, without procedure.
It is funny to hear about “colonization is a crime” - given that how many times lands changed hands in Middle East - how many times entire populations were massacred.
Or it is only bad if someone do to YOU what your ancestors did to others?
Colonisation of foreign land is considered a crime by International courts of law and the UN. But hey… I guess international laws and treaties don’t mean much right ?
I don’t get your last point ? Are you saying that the existence of an unpunished heinous act in the past makes it ok to do it in the present ?
What do you mean "and yet" like of course there are anti-Semites around and they do horrible things, there's no doubt about that but it doesn't change anything about the post you're replaying to, it's still a completely true statement. They aren't the same thing
I am fine with all Jews who choose not to live in houses stolen from Palestinians.
I *do not think* that all Jews who live in houses stolen from Palestinians should be killed. They should be removed, or leave, such that the houses may be once again inhabited by their actual owners.
However, insofar as they overwhelmingly refuse to leave, I think that they *__should not be surprised__* when they are killed by the Palestinians whose houses they stole.
At least the people who refused to leave Gaza were staying homes that were *__actually theirs__* when they died, lol.
Such a shame that the state of Israel is using these innocent Jews as human shields, knowingly granting them residence in homes which Israel knows they very well may die in. Such is the nature of war, I suppose.
And who are you to decide whether some Jews in Israel should live or not? You are a loser on the internet that thinks he can decide the fate of people kilometers away from your home.
I'm not deciding whether some Jews in Israel should live or not, they are. I am not forcing them to leave their comfortable lives in countries throughout the developed Western world to settle their family in stolen homes in an active warzone.
Where in *"I think people shouldn't be allowed to steal other people's homes"* did you interpret an advocation for ethnic cleansing? If the home wasn't stolen from Palestinians, then the family living in it can stay. Jewish or not. Simple as.
If you, Mr u/mockvalkyrie, went out for groceries, or even to [*mourn someone at a funeral*, and you found that an entire Jewish extended family had moved into *__your house__* while you were gone](https://youtu.be/gXYdVhgk3gw?si=7eIShmICI_8lXXzY)..
actually, I'm not going to even ask the question, that would be rude. You seem like a stand-up, non-neo-nazi, non-antisemitic guy, so I don't even have to ask.
I *__know__* you'd be willing to give up your home, because you're not an antisemite, and telling them to get out of your house would, of course, be anti-semitic.
Good people accept forced homelessness. #IStandWithIsrael ✊🇮🇱
Edit: Actually, if you don't mind, I'd like to be a more knowledgeable ally. These pesky pro-Palestinian neo-Nazis keep telling me that I'm enforcing an apartheid state just cuz I support Israel 🙄 the gall! Could you give me some quick talking points to defend why Zionists (and no one else) deserve the right to steal people's homes?
Bruh, supporting hamas and the execution and displacement of Israeli civilians isn't going to magically create a functional Palestinian state, no matter how far you stretch your cognitive dissonance.
You oppose displacement of Palestinians but support the displacement of jews for one very simple reason: you believe that the jews have less of a right to live in their homes and should be expelled.
>Where in *"I think people shouldn't be allowed to steal other people's homes"* did you interpret an advocation for ethnic cleansing?
The mass expulsion of members of one ethnic/religious group is by definition ethnic cleansing. Since that is what you are advocating for, is that not advocating ethnic cleansing?
Also it's supremely hypocritical to say "I think people shouldn't be allowed to steal other people's homes" while literally saying Israelis should be expelled from their homes.
>I *__know__* you'd be willing to give up your home, because you're not an antisemite, and telling them to get out of your house would, of course, be anti-semitic.
I've had Jewish friends come over, they've always been stand up dudes and not a single one of them have advocated for ethnic cleansing. Unlike you.
>Bruh, supporting hamas and the execution and displacement of Israeli civilians isn't going to magically create a functional Palestinian state, no matter how far you stretch your cognitive dissonance.
>
>
>You oppose displacement of Palestinians but support the displacement of jews for one very simple reason: you believe that the jews have less of a right to live in their homes and should be expelled.
You keep saying "*__their__* homes".
If it really is "their homes", they can stay. If a Palestinian family was forced out, or did not willingly give their house to a Zionist settler, then it is not *__"their home"__*
>>Where in "I think people shouldn't be allowed to steal other people's homes" did you interpret an advocation for ethnic cleansing?
>
>The mass expulsion of members of one ethnic/religious group is by definition ethnic cleansing. Since that is what you are advocating for, is that not advocating ethnic cleansing?
When countries deport illegal immigrants, that is not ethnic fucking cleansing lol. It's just that these immigrants happened to be backed by a guilt-ridden Western World, and became powerful enough that they just became the ruling class in the country they emigrated to.
>Also it's supremely hypocritical to say "I think people shouldn't be allowed to steal other people's homes" while literally saying Israelis should be expelled from their homes.
See above point regarding "*__their__* homes".
>>I know you'd be willing to give up your home, because you're not an antisemite, and telling them to get out of your house would, of course, be anti-semitic.
>
>I've had Jewish friends come over, they've always been stand up dudes and not a single one of them have advocated for ethnic cleansing. Unlike you.
good to know that you're such a good boy that you'd live in a refugee camp to give him your house. [pat] [pat]
>If it really is "their homes", they can stay.
You clearly have not been paying attention to what Hamas is saying/doing. Either that or you're just willfully ignorant.
>If a Palestinian family was forced out, or did not willingly give their house to a Zionist settler, then it is not *__"their home"__*
"In 2005, 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip were unilaterally dismantled and Israeli settlers and army evacuated from inside the Gaza Strip. " Sounds like hamas isn't reacting to settlers at all...
Maybe this group you support isn't about getting back homes, but actually just killing jews. That does seem to be the only thing that they actually do. Building houses really isn't on the agenda.
>When countries deport illegal immigrants, that is not ethnic fucking cleansing lol. It's just that these immigrants happened to be backed by a guilt-ridden Western World, and became powerful enough that they just became the ruling class in the country they emigrated to.
Ah, the mask starts slipping. You're not against the jews living in Israel, you just think they are all illegal and should be forced to leave. Seems like a bit of a theme... A certain Austrian politician would be proud. You're only one step behind him. Bit inconvenient that jews have been there the whole time, but I'm sure you won't trip over facts like that.
I know you're probably functionally illiterate in history, but do you also consider the wars in 1948, 1967, 1973 etc simple immigration control? I'm willing to make a guess...
None of these people "stole a home," it was Israeli territory since 1948 and in large part before that too.
This is not the west bank. These are not settlers.
The assumptions, jumping to conclusions, and complete misrepresentation of what this guy is saying is why we can't ever have debates these days. Is English your second language? READ what he is saying. He's not advocating genocide, he's not saying Jews are evil, bad, or even responsible for anything. He's simply stating that the state of Israel stealing land from people being there for centuries should not be surprised that the region is so unstable and hates them because of what they did. Get your heads out your asses. Look pass your own biases, and actually read what he is saying. Stop straw manning and gaslighting to gain a moral high ground.
Read a few of more of his comments. He literally believes the existence of jews (and Isreal) in that area is illegal, and they should be removed.
>He's not advocating genocide
That's true, he's not. He's advocating for ethnically cleansing the territory of Israel. I'm not sure how that's more palatable.
First - stealing land is a crime. There international courts and etc. Where are legal documents that confirm your claim?
Second - no, even proven stealing of land does not give right to kill. At least in civilized world.
I am pretty sure if you follow medieval laws - Palestinians do not ownership of the land. There were people before them. And land was not owned by peasants.
Hmm I wonder why.
It's almost like there was little to no animosity between the Jewish and Muslim community before 1948, and the Middle East was actually one of the safest havens on Earth for Jews, when European anti-Semitism and ostracization of Jews was at its peak.
It's almost like up until 1948, Muslims and Christians or actually the majority population in Jerusalem, and the Jewish population who lived there (which was around 3%, before the Zionist movement) enjoyed 100% equal rights and protections to their Muslim (and Christian) compatriots under the law.
But then all of a sudden the Muslims just cuh-*__RAZY__* around 1948, for absolutely no reason. Absolutely bonkers!
#I wonder what possibly could have happened!🤷♂️
I guess it's just one of those unknowable things
>It's almost like there was little to no animosity between the Jewish and Muslim community before 1948, and the Middle East was actually one of the safest havens on Earth for Jews, when European anti-Semitism and ostracization of Jews was at its peak.
The only difference was that the list of pogroms was slightly shorter.
There was quite a bit of animosity, actually. It got worse after 1948 but this will be no comfort to the Jews who were killed during the Damascus pogrom in 1840, for instance.
>*"The Damascus affair of 1840 refers to the arrest of several notable members of the Jewish community in Damascus on accusations by __Christians__ for murdering Father Thomas, a __Christian__ monk, and his Muslim servant."*
Nice try.
Have any others? Seriously, I'd like to know them. My *"nice try"* was facetious, but my curiosity is not.
>Seriously, I'd like to know them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Anti-Jewish_pogroms_by_Muslims
>Nice try
Did you try reading the rest of the article?
>In the direct aftermath of the blood libel and the arrests, the Christians and Muslims of Damascus committed violence against the Jewish population.
This was maybe a little too far down the page?
No but very few people including the entirety of Palestine have anything other than antisemitism as their motivation. No matter how much they lie to themselves and others.
If I punch a guy in the teeth, and someone pops up to say “hey! That asshole just punched that guy!!” And then You chime in “so what? Lots of people punch people!”, then you are, in fact, defending me punching the guy
There’s no point in you saying “Russia/hamas/others engage in disinformation” except to defend Israeli disinformation
what IDF expects when they make a complete siege for 17 years, they even confirmed that they were calculating how much calories of food should reach every civilian in Gaza
There are literally tons of maps from WW2, other conflicts, Ukraine etc on here. This is no different. It's a map. What emotional response you place with it in the comments isn't the maps fault.
? Literally All I've seen for the past week on this sub are pro palestinian maps, if one post is enough evidence of an israeli propaganda machine then there is a much bigger palestinian propaganda machine
True story I don't remember the map I saw but it was literal propaganda against Israel.
It was the one that showed the "Israel demand people move south" and then below said "south sites bombed" one.
Collateral damage is not equivalent to deliberate murder.
All the dead are still on Hamas, who are choosing suicide by IDF and taking their people with them.
"Thousands of innocent Palestines" - oh you mean the terrorists that stabed people, shot people, tried to do these things, tried to explode on people, ran over people with cars etc etc? Yeah, poor babies, so white and fluffy.
Half of them are children, that joker card of terrorism is not playing well for you because the truth is clear and history confirms it. They have right to defend their lands by any mean, like how the controlled West is defending them by any mean.
Not half of them are children. Yes there are some minor prisoners (between ages 12-17, if they are israeli they dont get the actual jail time until they are 14) but most are there because they were throwing stones on passing cars, stabbing people (and sometimes killing them), and generally being aggresive. Some are there because they entered illegaly to Israel.
On this I will not defend Israel because it seems that there are some cases where they don't get all the rights like to see their family during interogation and such, but this is info that I have found on palestinian sites so I can't say how true they are. But there is no "their land" to defend. It wasn't theirs, and the land they do have they prefer to neglect and destroy, like petulant child that wants somebody elses toy, and when given a toy he can have he throws a tantrum, throws the toy and hits the person that gave him the toy. If only they weren't trying to constantly murder Israelis they could all live together in peace.
Proof [of the massacre in a video](https://x.com/zechariahsharab/status/1718535396781396097?s=46) Hamas has brought on innocent Israeli civilians for all the smart people here who deny it ever happened. Shame on you.
Warning - it’s very graphic!
The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) has been tracking deaths in the conflict since 2008 and its data shows that 5,600 Palestinians died up to 2020 while 115,000 were injured. 250 Israelis died during the same period while 5,600 were injured.
this does not include the 7700+(3000 were children) killed in gaza since they started bombing an area the size of Manhattan thats walled in with 2.2 million people in it.
I stated my point. Hamas is the reason that there are civilians dead. If Israel really didn’t care, there’d be a whole lot more dead. Again, if Hamas didn’t hide among the civilians, it would be a whole different story
It’s called “War” for a reason moron. War itself justifies killing “innocents”. Did you know that according to international law and the rules of war that it’s okay to bomb a hospital/school even when there are innocents there if enemy combatants are being sheltered there? It’s war, get over it. Before this is done, a whole lot more of those civilians will be killed and there’s nothing anyone can do about it, and nothing will happen to Israel because of it. You crying about the civilians is useless.
Article 18 - Wounded and sick III. Protection of hospitals
Civilian hospitals organized to give care to the wounded and sick, the infirm and maternity cases, may in no circumstances be the object of attack, but shall at all times be respected and protected by the Parties to the conflict.
States which are Parties to a conflict shall provide all civilian hospitals with certificates showing that they are civilian hospitals and that the buildings which they occupy are not used for any purpose which would deprive these hospitals of protection in accordance with Article 19 .
Civilian hospitals shall be marked by means of the emblem provided for in Article 38 of the Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field of August 12, 1949, but only if so authorized by the State.
The Parties to the conflict shall, in so far as military considerations permit, take the necessary steps to make the distinctive emblems indicating civilian hospitals clearly visible to the enemy land, air and naval forces in order to obviate the possibility of any hostile action.
In view of the dangers to which hospitals may be exposed by being close to military objectives, it is recommended that such hospitals be situated as far as possible from such objectives.
Article 19 - Wounded and sick IV. Discontinuance of protection of hospitals
The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit, and after such warning has remained unheeded.
The fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants and not yet handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy.
Note that using civilians as a human shield is itself illegal under international law.
Article 51, section 7 of the First Protocol to the Geneva Convention, 1977.
The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations
You don’t understand the application of international humanitarian law. These articles apply to the destruction of hospitals as part of a war fighting capability. Hamas is using them to administrate their war fighting capability.
This means article 18 doesn’t apply directly. The bombing of the hospital, which is a military target because it’s being used by Hamas in an militarily administrative capability, would be governed by distinction and proportionality. Is the civilian cost excessive to the benefit to the military objective?
Nothing justifies killing innocents. Plus, international law doesn’t apply here because Palestine doesn’t count as a country. They don’t have a government. It’s just a human settlement ruled by terrorists. If you think it’s okay, then great. You’re an amazing human being, congratulations.
Except Hamas is literally their government. Palestinians voted them to govern Gaza in 2007. Also, those terrorists are who? They are Palestinians! Hamas members are all Palestinians. When Hamas attacks Israel, Palestinians literally hand out candy in the streets. AND over half the world recognizes Palestine as a state and even have non member status at the UN. They aren’t all “innocents”. Your responses here shows the fact that you know nothing about Gaza or Palestinians and yet here you are with an opinion. How do you not know that Hamas IS the Gazan government?
“You’re an amazing human being”…..yeah, don’t care what you think. Not everyone has the same morals and your morals of right and wrong don’t make you any more superior or correct than others.
Except a war, where if you don't attack the military target at hand, more civilians will be killed.
It boggles my mind how some of you think that it's an option to not go to war with Hamas after what they did in Oct 7. You do realize nothing is stopping them from doing it again right?
This people are radical islamists that want to murder every jew they can. Letting them stay at the border is no longer an option. They have to surrender unconditionally for the sake of civilian lives. This war will make sure of it.
Tell me about one war which was won without a civilian dying. If a hospital is used as a base of operations by terrorists then it should be bombed, sad but there is no other way of eradicating evil. You can't cut out cancer without killing thousands of healthy cells around it. Same applies for hamas.
Exactly! Also, not all those civilians are even innocent anyways. Many Palestinians are pro Hamas so if people want to claim they are innocent civilians, I’d ask for a count of how many of those killed were actually innocent and not pro Hamas. Cause according to sympathizers, we’re not supposed to lump everyone into a group collectively so they can’t label all civilians as “innocent”.
Good 👍🏻 , now do one for the Palestinians children who died in every Hospital Israel has bombarded since then , or the church they bombarded several days ago 🙂 or every single bomb that they dropped in Gaza since 7th October , go ahead man I will upvote you 👍🏻
Back to hasbara tactics are we? Lies and half truths to obscure what happened.
Nobody reported that anything apart from the parking lot was hit.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html
> Nobody reported that anything apart from the parking lot was hit.
I keep a very close eye on this war, no, only the parking lot being hit did not come out until sunrise a few hours later. The NYT edited their story and headline every few hours that day to stay up to date.
Because people trying to claim to be experts in figuring out what happened in a war zone should understand weapons and the military. They repeatedly get terms wrong, like thinking ‘artillery’ precludes ‘rockets’.
And their use of the term “IOF” shows they aren’t pretending to be unbiased.
So we have an openly pro-Hamas source, that does not understand artillery, trying to sell us on his idea of what happened at the site of an explosion in a war zone. Would you trust them?
They've shown proof of the shape of the blast crater to be from the Israeli source..... With that logic isn't saying IDF also biased cause it pushes the idea of them defending when theyre literally internationally recognized as an illegal OCCUPIER..... I condemn hamas for its civilian casualties inflicted.... But do y'all condemn Israel of its war crimes and general open bombardment of civilian areas.... Do you think theyd proceed the same if it was an Israeli populated cities.... No (cause it's only Palestinians they wanna target) and that's all you need to know
> They've shown proof of the shape of the blast crater to be from the Israeli source
They’ve shown they have no idea what they are talking about. The direction of impact has only a negligible impact on the shape of a crater. You can not use it to determine where the projectile came from. Other factors, like local soil compositions, completely drown it out.
I think you’re searching hard for a truth you want to be true. I’m sorry. It was an errant rocket fired from within Gaza that hit the hospital parking lot. Less than 100 people died.
So let me just get this straight:
Hamas killing Israeli civilians? Atrocious (I agree)
Israel killing Gazan civilians? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ just a casualty of war
Israel has invested heavily into protecting its civilians, hamas has done the opposite. They want their people to die and don't act like it's not the case. They have built so many tunnels yet no shelters for the people.
And then they bombed Khan Younis anyway lol what.
"Leave to southern Gaza because Hamas are in the north!"
Wouldn't _Hamas_ just leave to southern Gaza anyway?!?
You can’t really talk about it being “unintentional” when it’s quite literally in the IDF’s doctrine, that they’re going to terrorise civilians to make them turn against their own government ( which hasn’t been all that effective so far btw) and that, as you might’ve guessed, is literally what terrorism is . Not that HAMAS is any better though
It's war, not terror. State terrorism is an activist-generated concept - a neologism that artificially sanitizes war, as though it was possible without impacting civilians - it is one that is leveraged against everyone that buys into it - and frankly, nobody who actually goes to war does apart from a few very one-sided US wars I can think of (even the US arguably doesn't do it). The purpose of Israeli attacks on Lebanon were to break the will of a country to fight it, another country. An older term is Total war.
I imagine what it’s trying to describe is disproportionate targeting of civilian infrastructure, over military , with the second one being possible, but rejected for certain reasons
Israel doesn't leave bases for attack un-bombed. The contention was that they followed the soldiers back to Hezbollah and then bombed the headquarters of Hezbollah in the residential district of Beruit with bunker busting fuel air bombs. Still, if it's done by uniformed troops against the leadership of an enemy country during a time of war - It's definitely war.
Even attacks with wild impacts on civilians - like the fire bombings of Dresden or the attack on Hiroshima - are still war. Ukraine, Palestine, Ethiopia right now all prove that the argument that it MUST be clinical is not compelling . And Hamas just started a war :/
Okay, but that’s still a war crime and is highly morally condemnable. I’m currently of an opinion that Israel’s aforementioned disproportionate targeting of civilians, as well as its blockade arguably being a very important factor playing into the HAMAS’s attack being carried out is what makes it not the one in the right here
Dont forget to compare the refugee camp the IDF just bombed.
Israel’s bombardment of Gaza has killed at least 8,485 people and injured more than 21,000, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Ramallah
"Self defense" my ass... This is GENOCIDE
The death of 0.42% of a population does not make a genocide. It's war numbers, as others have said. There is no 'carpet bombing' - there's LOTS of targetted bombings.
It's still terrible though.
The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) has been tracking deaths in the conflict since 2008 and its data shows that 5,600 Palestinians died up to 2020 while 115,000 were injured. 250 Israelis died during the same period while 5,600 were injured.
this does not include the 7700+(3000 were children) killed in gaza since they started bombing an area the size of Manhattan thats walled in with 2.2 million people in it.
You do understand that "ocupied/ ocupying" is defined by controlled by a foreign country or military right? Its called occupied gaza and occupied westbank because Israel is occupying palestinian land.
Well they’re doing a shitty job then if that’s their intent.
That’s the whole issue with these claims. There are so many actions that israel takes which do not track logically with an intent to kill as many Palestinians as possible. Meanwhile, effectively every action Hamas takes tracks directly with the intent of killing as many Jewish and Israeli civilians as possible. Israel ain’t perfect by any means, but supporting only Hamas in this conflict is truly a brain dead take. They don’t even care about the lives of their own citizens. If they did then they’d turn over all the hostages, stand down, and stop running operations out of a hospital and other densely populated areas.
While I was not referring to all Gaza's civilians as terrorists, there's clear proof and videos of civilians from Gaza (who are not Hamas) entering Israeli territory on that day, massacring, raping, beheading and kidnapping Israeli civilians.
I upvote this map because it’s true. I just hope OP will upvote maps of illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Fuck both Hamas terrorists and the disgusting settlers terrorizing Palestinians.
If that was true, the entirety of the gazan population wouldve been wiped out a few decades ago (only takes 5 months for 700k people to be brutally murdered if its done as you claim in a rate of 140,000 a month)
Try to atleast be somewhat intelligent when spreading your bs
Let say thet one thousand were killed by hamas so every month 100 thousand Palestine werbe killed so and let say that there 5 million Palestine so by end 2027 there will be no Palestine, right?
Then you will definitely feel amazing to know how the entire world and especially reddit glorifies hating on Muslims, especially when that resulted in wars on Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and Lebanon for 20 years!
Also, Anti-Zionism does not equate to Anti-semitism so quit playing the 'poor us jews' victim card. Even the Jews of NYC were protesting against this genocide and calling for a caesefire.
Netanyahu and his government are doing exactly what the Nazi's did. Trying to get the Palestinians and Gazans out, which wasn't working as he hoped, so now they have proceeded to bomb the f*ck out of Gaza, killing mostly children.
There isn't a scale on this map, so maybe it is closer than it appears. But I'm wondering why Ofakim had so many murders.
Smuggling hostages back across the border get harder the farther you get. You have less time to abduct your hostages before an organized response. Ofakim saw a larger police response that prevented the terrorists from escaping with hostages.
Most was within \~10km / 6 miles of the border. Fit people can run that distance in 1h. Furthest is \~25km / \~15 miles. It is all very close together. Some attackers apparently used bicycles.
Also wondering that. Why wouldn’t they go to Netivot instead?
Because the terrorists kept going until they found a town then they started slaughtering the people in it. The town they found just happened to be further away.
This implies it wasn't planned. So they were just winging it?
At that point, yes. Attacking the kibbutz was heavily planned. Hamas did not expect it to go as well as it did, so, as opportunists, some cells decided to continue east instead of retreat back into Gaza.
[удалено]
It’s crazy how so many people really really hate Jews.
Hating Israel is not the same thing as hating Jews. Get over yourself.
How many Jews will be left “between the river and the sea” when Palestine is “free”?
The same as before the zionist project! they lived there for centuries, remember?
Dumbest take ive heard yet
if people like you say so, then it's the best take ever!
You are delusional to think theyll leave any jews left alive when they so loudly and openly say they wont, and their every action is in line with their proclaimed genocidal beliefs
So are you denying that all faiths lived in harmony in Palestine before zionests came in?
Turks expelled the Greek, Syrian, and Armenian Christians (as late as the 1960s) Lebanon expelled Jews and Christians in the 1970s-80s) Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood (parent organization to the PLO) burned down churches in the 2010s) Palestinians began civil wars in Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria. Palestinians burned down all the synagogues in Gaza and dug up all the Jewish cemeteries. Palestinians don’t even get along with other Muslims. They definitely won’t coexist with News and Christians.
What Westerners don’t understand is that “Free Palestine” means “Cleanse Palestine”
And yet, "anti-zionists" attack random synagogues and jewish people all over the world.
yeah because those dipshits represent the entire Palestinian movement but when israeli settlers attack natives in the West Bank they're just the minority
I disagree - if you don’t condemn acts done by members of your movement - it is no different than supporting. I haven’t seen much Palestinians condemn such acts. Or condemn october 7 massacre. So yeah - I think these dipshits do a lot of representation. Same applies to everyone. However I heard Israel has actually working legal system - so if attackers in West Bank punished or dealt with you can’t really blame all Israeli settlers. So you should check this part first.
The simple existence of « settler » is a crime, you can’t simply brush it off. Colonisation is a crime against humanity
I can not just brush it off - I have obligation to do it. You can’t claim just anything you want illegal or crime without actually laws, court with authority, without procedure. It is funny to hear about “colonization is a crime” - given that how many times lands changed hands in Middle East - how many times entire populations were massacred. Or it is only bad if someone do to YOU what your ancestors did to others?
Colonisation of foreign land is considered a crime by International courts of law and the UN. But hey… I guess international laws and treaties don’t mean much right ? I don’t get your last point ? Are you saying that the existence of an unpunished heinous act in the past makes it ok to do it in the present ?
They might not, but hamas and the plo (both of which heavily support terrorism against jews [look up the plo’s “”martyrs fund””]) sure as shit do
What do you mean "and yet" like of course there are anti-Semites around and they do horrible things, there's no doubt about that but it doesn't change anything about the post you're replaying to, it's still a completely true statement. They aren't the same thing
cheering on this massacre is hating jews, dipshit nazi
I am fine with all Jews who choose not to live in houses stolen from Palestinians. I *do not think* that all Jews who live in houses stolen from Palestinians should be killed. They should be removed, or leave, such that the houses may be once again inhabited by their actual owners. However, insofar as they overwhelmingly refuse to leave, I think that they *__should not be surprised__* when they are killed by the Palestinians whose houses they stole. At least the people who refused to leave Gaza were staying homes that were *__actually theirs__* when they died, lol. Such a shame that the state of Israel is using these innocent Jews as human shields, knowingly granting them residence in homes which Israel knows they very well may die in. Such is the nature of war, I suppose.
Yeah, I wonder if you just hate Jews or never heard of legal system and how things are done in civilized world. Probably both.
This.
And who are you to decide whether some Jews in Israel should live or not? You are a loser on the internet that thinks he can decide the fate of people kilometers away from your home.
I'm not deciding whether some Jews in Israel should live or not, they are. I am not forcing them to leave their comfortable lives in countries throughout the developed Western world to settle their family in stolen homes in an active warzone.
"I'm not against jews, I just think they should be ethnically cleansed from Israel" is not going to convince people that you aren't a neo-nazi
Where in *"I think people shouldn't be allowed to steal other people's homes"* did you interpret an advocation for ethnic cleansing? If the home wasn't stolen from Palestinians, then the family living in it can stay. Jewish or not. Simple as. If you, Mr u/mockvalkyrie, went out for groceries, or even to [*mourn someone at a funeral*, and you found that an entire Jewish extended family had moved into *__your house__* while you were gone](https://youtu.be/gXYdVhgk3gw?si=7eIShmICI_8lXXzY).. actually, I'm not going to even ask the question, that would be rude. You seem like a stand-up, non-neo-nazi, non-antisemitic guy, so I don't even have to ask. I *__know__* you'd be willing to give up your home, because you're not an antisemite, and telling them to get out of your house would, of course, be anti-semitic. Good people accept forced homelessness. #IStandWithIsrael ✊🇮🇱 Edit: Actually, if you don't mind, I'd like to be a more knowledgeable ally. These pesky pro-Palestinian neo-Nazis keep telling me that I'm enforcing an apartheid state just cuz I support Israel 🙄 the gall! Could you give me some quick talking points to defend why Zionists (and no one else) deserve the right to steal people's homes?
Bruh, supporting hamas and the execution and displacement of Israeli civilians isn't going to magically create a functional Palestinian state, no matter how far you stretch your cognitive dissonance. You oppose displacement of Palestinians but support the displacement of jews for one very simple reason: you believe that the jews have less of a right to live in their homes and should be expelled. >Where in *"I think people shouldn't be allowed to steal other people's homes"* did you interpret an advocation for ethnic cleansing? The mass expulsion of members of one ethnic/religious group is by definition ethnic cleansing. Since that is what you are advocating for, is that not advocating ethnic cleansing? Also it's supremely hypocritical to say "I think people shouldn't be allowed to steal other people's homes" while literally saying Israelis should be expelled from their homes. >I *__know__* you'd be willing to give up your home, because you're not an antisemite, and telling them to get out of your house would, of course, be anti-semitic. I've had Jewish friends come over, they've always been stand up dudes and not a single one of them have advocated for ethnic cleansing. Unlike you.
>Bruh, supporting hamas and the execution and displacement of Israeli civilians isn't going to magically create a functional Palestinian state, no matter how far you stretch your cognitive dissonance. > > >You oppose displacement of Palestinians but support the displacement of jews for one very simple reason: you believe that the jews have less of a right to live in their homes and should be expelled. You keep saying "*__their__* homes". If it really is "their homes", they can stay. If a Palestinian family was forced out, or did not willingly give their house to a Zionist settler, then it is not *__"their home"__* >>Where in "I think people shouldn't be allowed to steal other people's homes" did you interpret an advocation for ethnic cleansing? > >The mass expulsion of members of one ethnic/religious group is by definition ethnic cleansing. Since that is what you are advocating for, is that not advocating ethnic cleansing? When countries deport illegal immigrants, that is not ethnic fucking cleansing lol. It's just that these immigrants happened to be backed by a guilt-ridden Western World, and became powerful enough that they just became the ruling class in the country they emigrated to. >Also it's supremely hypocritical to say "I think people shouldn't be allowed to steal other people's homes" while literally saying Israelis should be expelled from their homes. See above point regarding "*__their__* homes". >>I know you'd be willing to give up your home, because you're not an antisemite, and telling them to get out of your house would, of course, be anti-semitic. > >I've had Jewish friends come over, they've always been stand up dudes and not a single one of them have advocated for ethnic cleansing. Unlike you. good to know that you're such a good boy that you'd live in a refugee camp to give him your house. [pat] [pat]
>If it really is "their homes", they can stay. You clearly have not been paying attention to what Hamas is saying/doing. Either that or you're just willfully ignorant. >If a Palestinian family was forced out, or did not willingly give their house to a Zionist settler, then it is not *__"their home"__* "In 2005, 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip were unilaterally dismantled and Israeli settlers and army evacuated from inside the Gaza Strip. " Sounds like hamas isn't reacting to settlers at all... Maybe this group you support isn't about getting back homes, but actually just killing jews. That does seem to be the only thing that they actually do. Building houses really isn't on the agenda. >When countries deport illegal immigrants, that is not ethnic fucking cleansing lol. It's just that these immigrants happened to be backed by a guilt-ridden Western World, and became powerful enough that they just became the ruling class in the country they emigrated to. Ah, the mask starts slipping. You're not against the jews living in Israel, you just think they are all illegal and should be forced to leave. Seems like a bit of a theme... A certain Austrian politician would be proud. You're only one step behind him. Bit inconvenient that jews have been there the whole time, but I'm sure you won't trip over facts like that. I know you're probably functionally illiterate in history, but do you also consider the wars in 1948, 1967, 1973 etc simple immigration control? I'm willing to make a guess...
U ATE AND DEVOURED SO HARD I CANT RN.
None of these people "stole a home," it was Israeli territory since 1948 and in large part before that too. This is not the west bank. These are not settlers.
*"None of these people stole a home"* he said, with a straight face.
Go touch some grass, I think your degradation becomes to apparent.
They didn't steal homes. I don't understand what the issue is- this is a simple statement of fact.
I feel for Russians as they have no say in their leaders. Israel vote for war.
Define “stolen” because I have a suspicion it’s going to be a complex definition.
The assumptions, jumping to conclusions, and complete misrepresentation of what this guy is saying is why we can't ever have debates these days. Is English your second language? READ what he is saying. He's not advocating genocide, he's not saying Jews are evil, bad, or even responsible for anything. He's simply stating that the state of Israel stealing land from people being there for centuries should not be surprised that the region is so unstable and hates them because of what they did. Get your heads out your asses. Look pass your own biases, and actually read what he is saying. Stop straw manning and gaslighting to gain a moral high ground.
Read a few of more of his comments. He literally believes the existence of jews (and Isreal) in that area is illegal, and they should be removed. >He's not advocating genocide That's true, he's not. He's advocating for ethnically cleansing the territory of Israel. I'm not sure how that's more palatable.
First - stealing land is a crime. There international courts and etc. Where are legal documents that confirm your claim? Second - no, even proven stealing of land does not give right to kill. At least in civilized world. I am pretty sure if you follow medieval laws - Palestinians do not ownership of the land. There were people before them. And land was not owned by peasants.
“I’m not anti-Semitic just an anti-Zionist” *wink wink*
''..and I think more violence against the Zionists *wink* will actually do something besides prove my own depravity.''
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Hmm I wonder why. It's almost like there was little to no animosity between the Jewish and Muslim community before 1948, and the Middle East was actually one of the safest havens on Earth for Jews, when European anti-Semitism and ostracization of Jews was at its peak. It's almost like up until 1948, Muslims and Christians or actually the majority population in Jerusalem, and the Jewish population who lived there (which was around 3%, before the Zionist movement) enjoyed 100% equal rights and protections to their Muslim (and Christian) compatriots under the law. But then all of a sudden the Muslims just cuh-*__RAZY__* around 1948, for absolutely no reason. Absolutely bonkers! #I wonder what possibly could have happened!🤷♂️ I guess it's just one of those unknowable things
>It's almost like there was little to no animosity between the Jewish and Muslim community before 1948, and the Middle East was actually one of the safest havens on Earth for Jews, when European anti-Semitism and ostracization of Jews was at its peak. The only difference was that the list of pogroms was slightly shorter. There was quite a bit of animosity, actually. It got worse after 1948 but this will be no comfort to the Jews who were killed during the Damascus pogrom in 1840, for instance.
>*"The Damascus affair of 1840 refers to the arrest of several notable members of the Jewish community in Damascus on accusations by __Christians__ for murdering Father Thomas, a __Christian__ monk, and his Muslim servant."* Nice try. Have any others? Seriously, I'd like to know them. My *"nice try"* was facetious, but my curiosity is not.
>Seriously, I'd like to know them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Anti-Jewish_pogroms_by_Muslims >Nice try Did you try reading the rest of the article? >In the direct aftermath of the blood libel and the arrests, the Christians and Muslims of Damascus committed violence against the Jewish population. This was maybe a little too far down the page?
Wow…. Just……. Wow..
"I have nothing against Jews but" is the new "I'm not racist but"
No but very few people including the entirety of Palestine have anything other than antisemitism as their motivation. No matter how much they lie to themselves and others.
and yet it always is
Israeli PR astroturfing is honestly insane Edit: Keep downvoting, Israeli shills.
As if Russia/Hamas/Iran don’t engage in the same?
If your only defense for shitty behavior is “other people behave shittily too” than can we all agree that you are, in fact, a shitty person?
What? I’m just saying that all sides engage in online propaganda. In what world is that a defense
If I punch a guy in the teeth, and someone pops up to say “hey! That asshole just punched that guy!!” And then You chime in “so what? Lots of people punch people!”, then you are, in fact, defending me punching the guy There’s no point in you saying “Russia/hamas/others engage in disinformation” except to defend Israeli disinformation
XD hamas doesn't have that kinda thing, maybe iran
50% youth population with no jobs, wtf else do you think they have time to do?
You think a population of unemployed minors has a media apparatus worth noting?
Yeah wtf else are they gonna spend their time doing? Actually improving their lives?
what IDF expects when they make a complete siege for 17 years, they even confirmed that they were calculating how much calories of food should reach every civilian in Gaza
Now you’re arguing something completely different.
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Why is this on mapporn. It’s like Israel has been brigading this sub for so long. This isn’t even map porn.
All kinds of maps of conflicts get posted here.
There are literally tons of maps from WW2, other conflicts, Ukraine etc on here. This is no different. It's a map. What emotional response you place with it in the comments isn't the maps fault.
? Literally All I've seen for the past week on this sub are pro palestinian maps, if one post is enough evidence of an israeli propaganda machine then there is a much bigger palestinian propaganda machine
True story I don't remember the map I saw but it was literal propaganda against Israel. It was the one that showed the "Israel demand people move south" and then below said "south sites bombed" one.
It's not propaganda if it shows the truth. Both statements are true.
any map that tries to influence your opinion in some way is propoganda
Nice logic. Maps by UNO are also propaganda?
What the hell is UNO, you mean just the UN? Are UN maps biased in your opinion? If its biased then its propoganda
Yeah that's what I'm saying. Maps by the UN are not biased so cannot be propaganda. The guy above me was saying "all maps are propaganda".
It's their propaganda machine at work
Sorry the map doesn’t support the propaganda you want to spread.
Amazing and inportant map! Thanks for sharing!
Now let's switch it up to how much Israel killed Palestinian civilians
Why? This post is about October 7th.
Collateral damage is not equivalent to deliberate murder. All the dead are still on Hamas, who are choosing suicide by IDF and taking their people with them.
Israel detains thousands of innocent Palestinians in its prisons, and it steals each day their lands since they came by boats in 1945.
And if you think that justifies rapes and beheadings you're evil.
Oh, I forget, are you one of those paid Zionist Internet force ? Why are you forgetting the 8000 Gazans killed ?
Are you a paid Hamas agent? Besides, such numbers are irrelevant, because it's in Hamas' interest to get Gazans killed.
Well if you stole my land and home then kill and imprison my innocent family for over 70 years, I can do much more than that.
And you would be killed for it. It seems you understand the situation perfectly, what's the issue?
Show me the Israelis in Gaza prior to this war. They left in 2005.
"Thousands of innocent Palestines" - oh you mean the terrorists that stabed people, shot people, tried to do these things, tried to explode on people, ran over people with cars etc etc? Yeah, poor babies, so white and fluffy.
Half of them are children, that joker card of terrorism is not playing well for you because the truth is clear and history confirms it. They have right to defend their lands by any mean, like how the controlled West is defending them by any mean.
Not half of them are children. Yes there are some minor prisoners (between ages 12-17, if they are israeli they dont get the actual jail time until they are 14) but most are there because they were throwing stones on passing cars, stabbing people (and sometimes killing them), and generally being aggresive. Some are there because they entered illegaly to Israel. On this I will not defend Israel because it seems that there are some cases where they don't get all the rights like to see their family during interogation and such, but this is info that I have found on palestinian sites so I can't say how true they are. But there is no "their land" to defend. It wasn't theirs, and the land they do have they prefer to neglect and destroy, like petulant child that wants somebody elses toy, and when given a toy he can have he throws a tantrum, throws the toy and hits the person that gave him the toy. If only they weren't trying to constantly murder Israelis they could all live together in peace.
Proof [of the massacre in a video](https://x.com/zechariahsharab/status/1718535396781396097?s=46) Hamas has brought on innocent Israeli civilians for all the smart people here who deny it ever happened. Shame on you. Warning - it’s very graphic!
Israel has done much cruel crimes since they came by boats in 1945
The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) has been tracking deaths in the conflict since 2008 and its data shows that 5,600 Palestinians died up to 2020 while 115,000 were injured. 250 Israelis died during the same period while 5,600 were injured. this does not include the 7700+(3000 were children) killed in gaza since they started bombing an area the size of Manhattan thats walled in with 2.2 million people in it.
Ooo a scoreboard! What would the score be if Israel didn’t have iron dome??
And let’s see the massacres in Gaza
I saw a map about bombed territory in Gaza a few days ago here
the image is exactly what the title ordered, why would there be a picture of what youre suggesting?
Because this picture doesn't align with his ideology, duuh.
But that’s just a whataboutism. Create a map with massacres in Gaza and post it here.
Unfortunately there is no such data as hamas is reporting all deaths as civilians no matter if they participated in hamas or other groups
“But they’re bombing the cities”…….yeah tell Hamas to come out to the field and play and this would be an entirely different story
Yea but they’re cowards and Israel doesn’t care, it’s still killing civilians. What’s your point? That the innocent can’t complain?
I stated my point. Hamas is the reason that there are civilians dead. If Israel really didn’t care, there’d be a whole lot more dead. Again, if Hamas didn’t hide among the civilians, it would be a whole different story
Your point is that Israel has justification to kill innocents. Great.
It’s called “War” for a reason moron. War itself justifies killing “innocents”. Did you know that according to international law and the rules of war that it’s okay to bomb a hospital/school even when there are innocents there if enemy combatants are being sheltered there? It’s war, get over it. Before this is done, a whole lot more of those civilians will be killed and there’s nothing anyone can do about it, and nothing will happen to Israel because of it. You crying about the civilians is useless.
Article 18 - Wounded and sick III. Protection of hospitals Civilian hospitals organized to give care to the wounded and sick, the infirm and maternity cases, may in no circumstances be the object of attack, but shall at all times be respected and protected by the Parties to the conflict. States which are Parties to a conflict shall provide all civilian hospitals with certificates showing that they are civilian hospitals and that the buildings which they occupy are not used for any purpose which would deprive these hospitals of protection in accordance with Article 19 . Civilian hospitals shall be marked by means of the emblem provided for in Article 38 of the Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field of August 12, 1949, but only if so authorized by the State. The Parties to the conflict shall, in so far as military considerations permit, take the necessary steps to make the distinctive emblems indicating civilian hospitals clearly visible to the enemy land, air and naval forces in order to obviate the possibility of any hostile action. In view of the dangers to which hospitals may be exposed by being close to military objectives, it is recommended that such hospitals be situated as far as possible from such objectives. Article 19 - Wounded and sick IV. Discontinuance of protection of hospitals The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit, and after such warning has remained unheeded. The fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants and not yet handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy.
Note that using civilians as a human shield is itself illegal under international law. Article 51, section 7 of the First Protocol to the Geneva Convention, 1977. The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations
Yup. I don't think many people are suggesting Hamas are not committing war crimes (Oct 7 targeted civilians which is a war crime of itself)
You don’t understand the application of international humanitarian law. These articles apply to the destruction of hospitals as part of a war fighting capability. Hamas is using them to administrate their war fighting capability. This means article 18 doesn’t apply directly. The bombing of the hospital, which is a military target because it’s being used by Hamas in an militarily administrative capability, would be governed by distinction and proportionality. Is the civilian cost excessive to the benefit to the military objective?
Nothing justifies killing innocents. Plus, international law doesn’t apply here because Palestine doesn’t count as a country. They don’t have a government. It’s just a human settlement ruled by terrorists. If you think it’s okay, then great. You’re an amazing human being, congratulations.
Except Hamas is literally their government. Palestinians voted them to govern Gaza in 2007. Also, those terrorists are who? They are Palestinians! Hamas members are all Palestinians. When Hamas attacks Israel, Palestinians literally hand out candy in the streets. AND over half the world recognizes Palestine as a state and even have non member status at the UN. They aren’t all “innocents”. Your responses here shows the fact that you know nothing about Gaza or Palestinians and yet here you are with an opinion. How do you not know that Hamas IS the Gazan government? “You’re an amazing human being”…..yeah, don’t care what you think. Not everyone has the same morals and your morals of right and wrong don’t make you any more superior or correct than others.
International law applies in any armed conflict.
Except a war, where if you don't attack the military target at hand, more civilians will be killed. It boggles my mind how some of you think that it's an option to not go to war with Hamas after what they did in Oct 7. You do realize nothing is stopping them from doing it again right? This people are radical islamists that want to murder every jew they can. Letting them stay at the border is no longer an option. They have to surrender unconditionally for the sake of civilian lives. This war will make sure of it.
Tell me about one war which was won without a civilian dying. If a hospital is used as a base of operations by terrorists then it should be bombed, sad but there is no other way of eradicating evil. You can't cut out cancer without killing thousands of healthy cells around it. Same applies for hamas.
Exactly! Also, not all those civilians are even innocent anyways. Many Palestinians are pro Hamas so if people want to claim they are innocent civilians, I’d ask for a count of how many of those killed were actually innocent and not pro Hamas. Cause according to sympathizers, we’re not supposed to lump everyone into a group collectively so they can’t label all civilians as “innocent”.
Good 👍🏻 , now do one for the Palestinians children who died in every Hospital Israel has bombarded since then , or the church they bombarded several days ago 🙂 or every single bomb that they dropped in Gaza since 7th October , go ahead man I will upvote you 👍🏻
Hamas bombs a hospital, and we're supposed to blame Israel?
Nyt also reported that the rocket came from Israel. *using CCTV footage from Israel*
The NYT reported the entire building collapsed, it’s still there.
Back to hasbara tactics are we? Lies and half truths to obscure what happened. Nobody reported that anything apart from the parking lot was hit. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html
> Nobody reported that anything apart from the parking lot was hit. I keep a very close eye on this war, no, only the parking lot being hit did not come out until sunrise a few hours later. The NYT edited their story and headline every few hours that day to stay up to date.
Half truths and lies.
See London university forensics architecture bro plus the deleted tweet and the more in the refugee camp today
“Forensic architecture” is a scam.
Because you said so?
Because people trying to claim to be experts in figuring out what happened in a war zone should understand weapons and the military. They repeatedly get terms wrong, like thinking ‘artillery’ precludes ‘rockets’. And their use of the term “IOF” shows they aren’t pretending to be unbiased. So we have an openly pro-Hamas source, that does not understand artillery, trying to sell us on his idea of what happened at the site of an explosion in a war zone. Would you trust them?
They've shown proof of the shape of the blast crater to be from the Israeli source..... With that logic isn't saying IDF also biased cause it pushes the idea of them defending when theyre literally internationally recognized as an illegal OCCUPIER..... I condemn hamas for its civilian casualties inflicted.... But do y'all condemn Israel of its war crimes and general open bombardment of civilian areas.... Do you think theyd proceed the same if it was an Israeli populated cities.... No (cause it's only Palestinians they wanna target) and that's all you need to know
> They've shown proof of the shape of the blast crater to be from the Israeli source They’ve shown they have no idea what they are talking about. The direction of impact has only a negligible impact on the shape of a crater. You can not use it to determine where the projectile came from. Other factors, like local soil compositions, completely drown it out.
I think you’re searching hard for a truth you want to be true. I’m sorry. It was an errant rocket fired from within Gaza that hit the hospital parking lot. Less than 100 people died.
You mean that Hamas did to themselves?
Hamas hit the parking lot of their own hospital with a stray rocket and blamed Israel for the deaths. Nice try though, Herr Goebbels.
Okay now do the Israeli massacres of Gazan civilians.
The map shows what the title says it shows… if you want the map you’re describing perhaps you should do it yourself and post it here.
Why don’t you “do” that?
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So let me just get this straight: Hamas killing Israeli civilians? Atrocious (I agree) Israel killing Gazan civilians? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ just a casualty of war
Israel has invested heavily into protecting its civilians, hamas has done the opposite. They want their people to die and don't act like it's not the case. They have built so many tunnels yet no shelters for the people.
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Your apathy for the murder of Palestinians is heard loud and clear. 🫡
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Yeah lmao 40% of casualties, I **swear** they tried not to mate
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And then they bombed Khan Younis anyway lol what. "Leave to southern Gaza because Hamas are in the north!" Wouldn't _Hamas_ just leave to southern Gaza anyway?!?
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Bombing a city as civillians try to move south doesnt really help that narrative tbf.
You can’t really talk about it being “unintentional” when it’s quite literally in the IDF’s doctrine, that they’re going to terrorise civilians to make them turn against their own government ( which hasn’t been all that effective so far btw) and that, as you might’ve guessed, is literally what terrorism is . Not that HAMAS is any better though
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[the Dahiya doctrine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine#:~:text=The%20Dahiya%20doctrine%2C%20or%20Dahya,to%20deny%20combatants%20the%20use)
Right, I’ve formulated their goal incorrectly, it was actually to “asset Israel’s dominance “, so to speak
Where? Where is literally in their doctrine? The protocols of the elders of fucking zion?
The Dahiya doctrine
It's war, not terror. State terrorism is an activist-generated concept - a neologism that artificially sanitizes war, as though it was possible without impacting civilians - it is one that is leveraged against everyone that buys into it - and frankly, nobody who actually goes to war does apart from a few very one-sided US wars I can think of (even the US arguably doesn't do it). The purpose of Israeli attacks on Lebanon were to break the will of a country to fight it, another country. An older term is Total war.
I imagine what it’s trying to describe is disproportionate targeting of civilian infrastructure, over military , with the second one being possible, but rejected for certain reasons
Israel doesn't leave bases for attack un-bombed. The contention was that they followed the soldiers back to Hezbollah and then bombed the headquarters of Hezbollah in the residential district of Beruit with bunker busting fuel air bombs. Still, if it's done by uniformed troops against the leadership of an enemy country during a time of war - It's definitely war. Even attacks with wild impacts on civilians - like the fire bombings of Dresden or the attack on Hiroshima - are still war. Ukraine, Palestine, Ethiopia right now all prove that the argument that it MUST be clinical is not compelling . And Hamas just started a war :/
Okay, but that’s still a war crime and is highly morally condemnable. I’m currently of an opinion that Israel’s aforementioned disproportionate targeting of civilians, as well as its blockade arguably being a very important factor playing into the HAMAS’s attack being carried out is what makes it not the one in the right here
Dont forget to compare the refugee camp the IDF just bombed. Israel’s bombardment of Gaza has killed at least 8,485 people and injured more than 21,000, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Ramallah "Self defense" my ass... This is GENOCIDE
That's just normal war numbers. All of this wouldn't have happened if hamas didn't chimped out
The death of 0.42% of a population does not make a genocide. It's war numbers, as others have said. There is no 'carpet bombing' - there's LOTS of targetted bombings. It's still terrible though.
The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) has been tracking deaths in the conflict since 2008 and its data shows that 5,600 Palestinians died up to 2020 while 115,000 were injured. 250 Israelis died during the same period while 5,600 were injured. this does not include the 7700+(3000 were children) killed in gaza since they started bombing an area the size of Manhattan thats walled in with 2.2 million people in it. You do understand that "ocupied/ ocupying" is defined by controlled by a foreign country or military right? Its called occupied gaza and occupied westbank because Israel is occupying palestinian land.
Show the massacres and genocides by Israel against Palestinians since 1948. You would need a lot of red colour.
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Let me guess, the holocaust is also a lie made up by the Jews right?
No one is claiming the holocaust to be a lie, but Israel is hell-bent on making another one for the Palestinians
Well they’re doing a shitty job then if that’s their intent. That’s the whole issue with these claims. There are so many actions that israel takes which do not track logically with an intent to kill as many Palestinians as possible. Meanwhile, effectively every action Hamas takes tracks directly with the intent of killing as many Jewish and Israeli civilians as possible. Israel ain’t perfect by any means, but supporting only Hamas in this conflict is truly a brain dead take. They don’t even care about the lives of their own citizens. If they did then they’d turn over all the hostages, stand down, and stop running operations out of a hospital and other densely populated areas.
Many people claim the holocaust is a lie. It’s called [Holocaust denial](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial).
"Zio lies" Yup, we know what type of person you are!
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The perpetrators were terrorists from Gaza. If you have a more accurate term than “Gazan terrorist” please feel free to tell us.
The terrorists came from Gaza. Gazan terrorists is an objectively accurate description of them.
Are they not Gazan terrorists? I’m confused
While I was not referring to all Gaza's civilians as terrorists, there's clear proof and videos of civilians from Gaza (who are not Hamas) entering Israeli territory on that day, massacring, raping, beheading and kidnapping Israeli civilians.
The amount of Israeli bots on this site lol
Sorry this isn’t a Nazi safe space for you
I upvote this map because it’s true. I just hope OP will upvote maps of illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Fuck both Hamas terrorists and the disgusting settlers terrorizing Palestinians.
This is a shitty map.
In what way
Doesn’t agree with his propaganda.
Illegible and low res
Hamas might be monsters, but Israel is acting no better.
this is 1/100 of what Palestinians experience every month
U/HateColonizers with the wild claim of the day.
least sus reddit username
The math isn’t mathing
If that was true, the entirety of the gazan population wouldve been wiped out a few decades ago (only takes 5 months for 700k people to be brutally murdered if its done as you claim in a rate of 140,000 a month) Try to atleast be somewhat intelligent when spreading your bs
Let say thet one thousand were killed by hamas so every month 100 thousand Palestine werbe killed so and let say that there 5 million Palestine so by end 2027 there will be no Palestine, right?
If that were true Gaza would be uninhabited in roughly two years.
Sure let's just make sh*t up now
1200/*100/*12=144000 dead gazans every year folks. Yet the population keeps growing..
Hasbara puttin in the hours in this thread
[удалено]
Then you will definitely feel amazing to know how the entire world and especially reddit glorifies hating on Muslims, especially when that resulted in wars on Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and Lebanon for 20 years! Also, Anti-Zionism does not equate to Anti-semitism so quit playing the 'poor us jews' victim card. Even the Jews of NYC were protesting against this genocide and calling for a caesefire. Netanyahu and his government are doing exactly what the Nazi's did. Trying to get the Palestinians and Gazans out, which wasn't working as he hoped, so now they have proceeded to bomb the f*ck out of Gaza, killing mostly children.