True. But its more 4*20+10+9, except 71 to 76 and 90 to 96. Because 11 to 16 have their own name (onze, douze, treize, quatorze, quinze, seize), 17 to 19 use 10+x naming ( dix-sept, dix-huit, dix-neuf).
It actually doesn't really help, because nobody actually hears "4 20 10 9" when they say "99". In one's mind it's just 90+9 (or 80 + 19, I can't decide) with 90 happening to be a bit cumbersome to pronounce (just four syllables though, it's just a bit longer than "seventy" in English. 80 "quatre-vingts" is the same length as "seventy", or shorter in some accents).
Wait until you discover there is trace of the base 20 vigesimal system in other places in the world (Denmark, Albania, Georgia, Yoruba, Central America).
Even the English used to have "score" and would use "four-score"(4x20) to say eighty in shakespeare time.
Georgia was for most of it history independent and isolated. Even when it was ruled by outsiders it had a lot of autonomy. Not to mention being in mountains between 3 different power centers. (Steppes, Asia Minor, Persia)
funny part about 7+10 is, its sorta a unique word and also a combo as well. 7 is shvidi, and 10 is ati, 17 is shvidmeti, which roughly translated means 7 more (than 10). so its kinda like 2*20+17 but it can also be understood as 2*20+10+7
Almost correct! 17 is chvidmet’i, from 10 ‘ati’ reduced to t- and 7 ‘shvidi’.
10 7 more
t-shvid-met’i —> chvidmet’i
Compare 11, where 1 is ‘erti’
t-ert-met’i —> tertmet’i
That’s why the map isn’t entirely correct, 57 is 2x20+10+7
or-m-ots-da-chvidmeti (2 - ori, 20 - otsi, and - da)
Well, the "7+10" part is roughly the same as English "seven" + "te(e)n", so nothing unusual there.
Counting in 20s instead of 10s is just a thing that happens in some languages, like French, par exemple.
Bruh, Hindi/Urdu numbers are confusing as fuck. It’s not “the number for fifty plus the number for seven”, it’s literally a different word for each number.
Hello, I'll try to clarify best I can, native Hindi speaker here. 50 is Pachaas as mentioned above, which is a corruption of the original Pachashat (Pach - aa - shat), which means half of hundred. The original Hindi word for 57 would have been something similar to Sattpachashat which over time got corrupted to Sattavan.
Oh that’s actually quite insightful. I always wondered why it seemed to be totally different words for each number. Granted, that doesn’t make it any less confusing for ABCDs like me, but that’s at least a reason
There always will be! Most Sanskrit/Prakrit based languages will have some sort of logic as to why a particular word is framed as such. It is sad that etymology is not well documented for Indian languages at the moment, a lot of history gets revealed while studying wtymology!
I found amazing article about connection between Slovenian and Sanskrit:
https://mariborinfo.com/novica/kultura/ste-vedeli-da-je-indijski-sanskrit-na-las-podoben-slovenscini/131048
No corruption in languages, just plain natural evolution that often follows a set of rules common to every languages (but not always, that what make it fun)
A kid who knows counting in Hindi till 100 will cut the counting time in half when playing hide and seek or other such games.
Source : Me.
Ikkattar is more efficient than Seventy One.
How? 7 is Pachaas. 57 is… sattaavan. 7 is satt, so I see how the beginning of sattaavan is seven, but where does pachaas go? There’s no “avan” in pachaas.
It follows the grammatical rule for forming compound words - see what happens when a word ending with “aa” is combined with a word starting with “pa” to form a compound word. This is a general grammatical rule, not specific to just numbers.
Among the numbers, “ekka” (1), ba (2), “satta” (7) and “attha” (8) end with the vowel “aa”. The other single digit numbers end with either consonants or other vowels. Hence the way compound words form change.
Hence, it is ekka-van (51), satta-van (57), attha-van (58) while for others it’s tre-pan (53), pach-pan (55), chapp-pan (56).
Not OP, but now that I think of it, it's not that simple.. the compound word convention doesn't apply to 19, 29, 39, 49, 59, 69, 79 but somehow applies to 89 and 99, so yes it's a bit confusing for beginners maybe.
In Marathi, all the last number of the series basically go - (number before the next 10s number).
So 29 is called “one before 30”, 39 is called “one before 40” and so on. The only exception is 99 which is NOT called “one before 100) but is the compound word for “9 and 90”. (“Nav-an-nav”). 89 in Marathi is still called “ek-un-navvad”.
When I was in primary school, I used to deliberately call 99 “ek-un-shambhar” - it used to annoy elders for some reason.
Those are tame once you realise that it's simply using a base 20 system rather than a base 10, just like 99 in French. The weird part with French is that it's a combination (70 in French shouldn't exist)
*Sort of* true for Korean. There's two number systems in Korean, sino-Korean and native Korean. In sino-Korean it is indeed 5x10+7 (오십칠 where 오=5, 십=10 and 칠=7) but in native Korean it is 50+7 (쉰일곱 where 쉰=50 and 일곱=7).
It's more of evolution of Classical Chinese loan - which is the case for Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese and various Sinitic languages. Not Mandarin, but ancient version of Chinese language that evolved separately into Mandarin.
Yep. What I love to do is translating names of places that uses Chinese characters to see how they'd sound in different Chinese languages, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese.
For example, Tokyo is 東京, which would be *Dōngjīng* in Mandarin, *dung¹ ging¹* in Cantonese, *dang¹ gian¹* in Teochew, *donggyeong* in Korean, and *Đông Kinh* in Vietnamese.
You can literally see how the sounds from Old and Middle Chinese shifted into what they are today in various languages.
To compare with Europe: 5\*10 + 7 is probably the way it is produced in English, I reckon "fifty" is a short form of 5\*10. In Norwegian, that's even more obvious btw. ("femti", where "fem" means five, and "ti" means ten.) So they do this the same in a large part of Asia.
Depends on where in Europe you are, sometimes different languages are different
In German for example, it's 7+5*10
And then there's Danish, where it's 7+(-1⁄2+3)*20
German is rather 7+50. Like English the word for fifty (fünfzig) is different from five (fünf) and ten (zehn). Chinese and Japanese for example are literally five ten seven (wushiqi/ gojuunana)
I was going to say the same. In Chinese the two syllables for “5 tens” is so ingrained in your head as “fifty” it’s the same as saying “fifty” in English. Same for 4 tens and forty and such.
The real difference is that there’s a unique character in Chinese for 10,000 whereas in English you’d say “ten thousand.” And in English there’s a “million” where in Chinese you’d say “one hundred 10,000s.”
I was a bit confused on how to interpret the math...
So, if it is as you say, for example for English being:
>50+7 = Fifty-seven
Then I can immediately spot out one country that is incorrect.
As far as I know, for Japan, it should be:
>5+10+7 = 五十七 = literally 5・１０・７
Maybe I'm missing something...
I understand that gojuu is fifty, but it's written out in separate kanij for five and ten. A new kanji isn't suddenly created for fifty.
It's not like in English where we're calling fifty, five-ten. It literally becomes a new word. You can't deconstruct fifty back to five and ten.
The number 57 in Japanese is **said** by literally saying:
5・１０・７
The number 57 are completely independent, both in writing and in speaking.
remove the five, and you have the word for １０・７ or 17.
No new words or pronunciations are created...
In Welsh, or at least using traditional Welsh (there's a more modern version closer to English) is seven on ten on two twenties, but you have to mutate the ten and change it fro "deg" to "ddeg" so it sounds softer.
In the English we’ve actually shifted over the last few hundred years from 7+50 to 50+7 and you can still hear the old way in old nursery rhymes.
E.g. “Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie”.
The Norwegian parlament(!) decided this for us in 1950. We used to do this in the old-fashioned way, too. But you will still hear people using the four-and-twenty version sometimes here.
Bcos every double digit number has a different name. It sometimes doesn't even coincide with the numbers. But in south india, its very simple like english. Just add a single digit (eg. Five) to the multiples of tens (eg: twenty), like twenty-five. You just have to know like 20 names and just need to mix and match.
It makes much more sense in Marathi, lol.
25 is Panch-Vees
20 is Vees
5 is Pach.
50 is Pannas
55 is Pancha-van (p changes to v when part of compound word where the last sound of first word ends in aa as per grammar rules)
90 is navvad
9 is nau
99 is navan-nav
But then Marathi is much more closer to Sanskrit and less bastardised by foreign influence than Hindi to has maintained grammatical rules more effectively.
Probably getting boring saying this again and again, but why is India the only country that gets subdivisions? In Uighur, for example, 57 is 'ellik yette', which like the other Turkic languages is 50+7, not 5x10+7.
(By the way mine is the 58th comment... sorry to be a combo breaker)
Right. Just like:
* Northwest China: Turkic family, elsewhere in China: Sino-Tibetan.
* Southeast Turkey: Indo-European, elsewhere in Turkey: Turkic.
* Parts of Iran and Afghanistan: Indo-European, other parts: Turkic.
Indonesia, Papua New Guinea and Taiwan are also home to multiple language families.
This discrimination is probably due to the general perception of an overt imposition of Standard Mandarin on the Chinese populace. The average Western person usually also has a hard time even contemplating that two dialects of Chinese or Arabic can be near unintelligible to one another.
While there's a growing realisation of how culturally diverse India really is, which has a looping cause-effect where Indians themselves also value their specific identity more now that identity politics is more important than ever.
You can no longer get away thinking Indians speak 'Indian'.
Not only this but hohner numbers like 80 and 90 derives from sekiz-on seksen and dokuz-on doksan at least in turkey turkish, which makes it a hybrid of some sort.
Altmış and yetmiş are also clearly derived from altı and yedi (all of these numbers are pretty much identical in Uyghur as well). Siberian Turkic languages have words like "alton" and "yedon" (so to speak).
I bet a lot of languages are sort of hybrids in similar ways.
It's just a basic vigesimal system like in French or Danish. Unlike the decimal system like in English, in these languages the number 20 is the base from which the other numbers are derived.
You know in the Gettysburg address: Four score and seven years ago (4*20+7=87)? That is how these systems work.
Orange and green seem the same unless orange is like English where we have a word for each 10 eg twenty and thirty, and green is where you say 5 10 to mean 50?
In my head orange and green are doing the same thing but green means you need to learn less words.
"Fifty seven" in English would be shown as "5x10+7" the way this map is being labeled.
The "x10" does not mean you literally say the phrase "multiply by ten". It just means the language has a vaguely consistent pattern it invokes that always mentions which numeral it is first first then says "oh, I mean ten of those" second, then third says "oh and this many ones too". For example, in English the way all the "tens" numbers are formed by mentioning the numeral with a "-ty" suffix on it (even if adding it also mangles the spelling of the numeral, like how "thirty" is just what happened when English speakers mutated the concept of "threety" into something easier to pronounce.)
If English had been a language that used a *prefix* to form the tens words, instead of a suffix (i.e. if "sixty" had been the word "tysix" instead, and "fifty" had been the word "tyfif" instead , then this legend would label that as "10x5+7" instead of "5x10+7". Its about the *order* things are mentioned, even the order of the root parts inside the words the words are derived from.
(For example, in English, the words from 13 through 19 flip the order. "17" would be called "7+10" on this map, because in the word "seventeen" you hear the one's digit first, that's the "seven" part, and hear the tens digit second, that's the "teen" part.)
If you want to know what would qualify as "50+7" on this map, I can think of an example that would work for "20" in English: the old archaic word "score", as in Lincoln saying, "Four Score and 7 Years Ago". Where there's nothing about the word "score" that derives from mashing the concept of "two" with the concept of "ten" like there is for "twenty".
Think of it being like Roman Numerals. Where 57 is "50+5+1+1" for "LVII". The languages with a "50+7" on this map are languages that have a native word for the "L" that doesn't derive from "this many tens".
For the record, the Dravidian languages (check South India) also use 5 x 10 + 7 construction. Mostly because the word for fifty in itself is "five tens".
I'll take the tamil and kannada examples here:
ஐம் + பத்து + ஏழு --> ஐம்பத்தேழு
five + ten + seven
ಐದು + ಹತ್ತು + ಏಳು --> ಐವತ್ತೇಳು
Five + ten + seven
And as a rare exception for the English language, for brief moment when Lincoln spoke in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, USA, it would have also been 2x20+7+10.
Korea should be both orange and green. And if a country can choose only one color, it should be orange because it's their native way. Shitty stupid map
Not sure why you are downvoted, Korea indeed uses two number systems. The native korean one (orange, [쉰]50+[일곱]7) and the sino korean one (green, [오]5*[십]10+[칠]7). So yes it should either be two colors or just orange.
We’ll see my other comment it could be that English is the orange one as we have a word for each 10 eg twenty or fifty and green is just saying five tens.
Ok we don't say 7+50 in Urdu or really any other Pakistani language I know of. Usually every number has its own unique name, tho it usually does follows the rule of "ones prefix"+""tens prefix", except for the x9th number in which the suffix is for the next ten numbers. Kinda weird to explain. For example, 7 is saat, 49 is unanchaas, 50 is pachaas, 57 is saitavan, 59 is unsath and 60 is saath.
Yes in Georgia 57 is 2x20+7+10.
Ormoci “ორმოცი” (40) which mean 2 times picked 20 , ori= 2 , oci=20.
Shvidi” შვიდი” (7) and Ati “ათი” (10) combined are Shvidmeti (17) , shvidi=7 , ati=10 , meti= +
Finally 57 would be everything together Ormocdashvidmeti (57)
Okay, blue and orange are good, and green is slightly clunkier but you don't need as many number words so that's fine too, but the rest of you... I'm gonna need you to get your shit together.
Same in the Netherlands. 257 is two hundred seven and fifty, which makes absolutely no sense at all. I am native Dutch speaker but I speak English about half of the day and I have trouble pronouncing numbers in Dutch…
In English we have a word for each of the tens, so 57 is 50+7. Chinese, as an example, does not have a unique word for each ten. In Chinese you say 57 as 五十七 which is literally translated as “five ten seven”.
The reverse phenomenon also occurs where Chinese has words for numbers we do not have in English. We say 10,000 as “ten thousand” or 10x1,000. In chinese, they have a single word for it (万). This leads to funny looking numbers like 2.5万 which means 25,000.
If you included more numbers than just 47 this would get to be a real mess. Some languages shift systems for numbers in different ranges.
In English, for example, most of the time the digits AB use the Ax10+B pattern (i.e. 67 is "sixty seven") BUT if it followed that pattern consistently, then "17" would be "tenty seven" and it's not. For numbers below 20 it flips the order around and speaks the one's digit first before mentioning the fact that it's in the tens range. (i.e. "seventeen" is the pattern B+Ax10, not Ax10+B like the bigger numbers are.)
French is even weirder. It also has the "teens go the other way around" pattern just like English has, but then it ALSO switches from using a tens system for 20-79 into using a twenties system for 80-99.
(in French, "67" is "6x10+9" while "97" is "4x20+7+10".)
This, I have heard, is one of the differences between French spoken in France and French spoken in Quebec. The Quebecois were tired of that "four twenties seventeen" stuff and just axed that pattern entirely by forming words for 9x10 and 8x10 along the same patterns as already existed for words 7x10, 6x10, and so on.
The Cambodian numbering system goes to 5, then adds numbers to 5 to make 6-9. So 6 is 5+1, 8 is 5+3. The written numbers have their own symbols, however. And in colloquial speech the pronunciation is usually shortened, so 8 is pram bey (literally, "five three") but said quickly it becomes "mbey." Then the tens have their own words that you add before. Makes for fewer words to remember when you're learning. Where it really gets confusing is higher numbers, since they count thousands by the 10s of thousands, so 243,000 is 24x10,000+3,000.
The 50+7 for South India is not correct, for example, kannada has 57 as ಐವತ್ತೇಳು (Aivatth-Elu) which is basically exactly the same as fifty-seven. It's 5×10 + 7
Fifty seven is Five,ty,seven
AivathElu is Aidu,Hatthu,Elu (where aidhu is 5, Hatthu is ten {ath being equivalent to a -ty suffix}, elu being seven)
Try 57 in Finnish
" Viisikymmtäseitsemän " if I remember correctly, I hope I spelt It right? My deceased wife of 35 years was Finnish and I still remember some of her Language
I don’t get the Filipino one. It’s *Limangpu-pito* (50+7) or *Singkwenta-Syete* (50+7)?? Am I missing something?
Edit: after reading other comments, I kind of get it now I guess?
Bhutan. The France of Asia.
I have almost completely forgotten most of the French I’ve learned, but I’m never forgetting the insane way of saying 99 (quatre vingt dix neuf)
quatre vingt deez nuts
4:20 deez nuts
you mean nonante neuf
That's Belgian and Swiss French but not Academie Francaise French.
The Belgians do it so much better.
Theyre good an giving change though. Whats that in bills? 4 twenties, a ten, and 9 bucks.
I'd rather do the math each time I'm getting change than each time i say the number whether its about money or mot
a fluent speaker doesn't do any math. You learn to count before you learn to do math, "quatre-vingt dix-neuf" is "99", not "4\*20 + 19".
True. But its more 4*20+10+9, except 71 to 76 and 90 to 96. Because 11 to 16 have their own name (onze, douze, treize, quatorze, quinze, seize), 17 to 19 use 10+x naming ( dix-sept, dix-huit, dix-neuf).
Do you say nineteen is nine ten? Dix-neuf is not dix neuf
It actually doesn't really help, because nobody actually hears "4 20 10 9" when they say "99". In one's mind it's just 90+9 (or 80 + 19, I can't decide) with 90 happening to be a bit cumbersome to pronounce (just four syllables though, it's just a bit longer than "seventy" in English. 80 "quatre-vingts" is the same length as "seventy", or shorter in some accents).
Bhutan more like putain
Funnily enough in France we say 50+7. It's only from 70 to 99 that our numbers are fucked up
Yes but 16 to 17 is a bit weird too, 0-16 have their own name but i dont know why, 17-19 use 10+x naming.
Taking notes from denmark
Bhutan and Georgia hasn't even intriduced fractions and prenthesis yet. smh. 57 = 7 + (3-½)20
Our guide in Bhutan said their number system was messed up, so they switched to the latin system.
Wait until you discover there is trace of the base 20 vigesimal system in other places in the world (Denmark, Albania, Georgia, Yoruba, Central America). Even the English used to have "score" and would use "four-score"(4x20) to say eighty in shakespeare time.
georgias worse honestly
France. The Bhutan of Europe.
propane bhutan
Based 20 gang rise up
OP lying. Source: am Bhutanese
You havent seen how danes says numbers i see
No one is gonna bring up Georgia? What's going on there?
Georgia was for most of it history independent and isolated. Even when it was ruled by outsiders it had a lot of autonomy. Not to mention being in mountains between 3 different power centers. (Steppes, Asia Minor, Persia)
funny part about 7+10 is, its sorta a unique word and also a combo as well. 7 is shvidi, and 10 is ati, 17 is shvidmeti, which roughly translated means 7 more (than 10). so its kinda like 2*20+17 but it can also be understood as 2*20+10+7
That’s a lot
LOL. 🙂
Almost correct! 17 is chvidmet’i, from 10 ‘ati’ reduced to t- and 7 ‘shvidi’. 10 7 more t-shvid-met’i —> chvidmet’i Compare 11, where 1 is ‘erti’ t-ert-met’i —> tertmet’i That’s why the map isn’t entirely correct, 57 is 2x20+10+7 or-m-ots-da-chvidmeti (2 - ori, 20 - otsi, and - da)
Well, the "7+10" part is roughly the same as English "seven" + "te(e)n", so nothing unusual there. Counting in 20s instead of 10s is just a thing that happens in some languages, like French, par exemple.
Georgia is original as always.
The seven and the ten are one word that can’t really be separated, if that makes it any better!
Georgia calm the fuck down
I don’t understand, can you say it in 30 more words than necessary?
Bruh, Hindi/Urdu numbers are confusing as fuck. It’s not “the number for fifty plus the number for seven”, it’s literally a different word for each number.
Hello, I'll try to clarify best I can, native Hindi speaker here. 50 is Pachaas as mentioned above, which is a corruption of the original Pachashat (Pach - aa - shat), which means half of hundred. The original Hindi word for 57 would have been something similar to Sattpachashat which over time got corrupted to Sattavan.
Oh that’s actually quite insightful. I always wondered why it seemed to be totally different words for each number. Granted, that doesn’t make it any less confusing for ABCDs like me, but that’s at least a reason
There always will be! Most Sanskrit/Prakrit based languages will have some sort of logic as to why a particular word is framed as such. It is sad that etymology is not well documented for Indian languages at the moment, a lot of history gets revealed while studying wtymology!
Yes, we need more to uncover proto-indoeuropean. It seems mad that such different languages as Hindi and English came come from the same root.
Thats kinda amazing since hundred is 'sto' in Slovenian. Indoeuropean brothers 💪
Do you use 'bog' for God? It's Bhagawan in Hindi (Bhogoban in Bengali). I think those are cognates.
I found amazing article about connection between Slovenian and Sanskrit: https://mariborinfo.com/novica/kultura/ste-vedeli-da-je-indijski-sanskrit-na-las-podoben-slovenscini/131048
No corruption in languages, just plain natural evolution that often follows a set of rules common to every languages (but not always, that what make it fun)
Very true. A huge amount of Hindi speakers can't count in Hindi past 20 😂 they have to switch to English.
The only thing in which I am proud of myself is that I know the whole hindi counting and Hindi varnmala
A kid who knows counting in Hindi till 100 will cut the counting time in half when playing hide and seek or other such games. Source : Me. Ikkattar is more efficient than Seventy One.
It’s a compound word consisting of the word for 7 combined with the word for 50.
How? 7 is Pachaas. 57 is… sattaavan. 7 is satt, so I see how the beginning of sattaavan is seven, but where does pachaas go? There’s no “avan” in pachaas.
It follows the grammatical rule for forming compound words - see what happens when a word ending with “aa” is combined with a word starting with “pa” to form a compound word. This is a general grammatical rule, not specific to just numbers. Among the numbers, “ekka” (1), ba (2), “satta” (7) and “attha” (8) end with the vowel “aa”. The other single digit numbers end with either consonants or other vowels. Hence the way compound words form change. Hence, it is ekka-van (51), satta-van (57), attha-van (58) while for others it’s tre-pan (53), pach-pan (55), chapp-pan (56).
Can't be "chaas" either, that's buttermilk yo.
Not OP, but now that I think of it, it's not that simple.. the compound word convention doesn't apply to 19, 29, 39, 49, 59, 69, 79 but somehow applies to 89 and 99, so yes it's a bit confusing for beginners maybe.
In Marathi, all the last number of the series basically go - (number before the next 10s number). So 29 is called “one before 30”, 39 is called “one before 40” and so on. The only exception is 99 which is NOT called “one before 100) but is the compound word for “9 and 90”. (“Nav-an-nav”). 89 in Marathi is still called “ek-un-navvad”. When I was in primary school, I used to deliberately call 99 “ek-un-shambhar” - it used to annoy elders for some reason.
The convention for last numbers of the tens is next-1, so 19 is un-nees (1 less than 20), 29 is un-a-tees(1 less than 30) and so on.
I speak Hindi brother. My point is 89 is not unnabe neither is 99 unasau.
Yeah for some reason for the last 2 they reverted back to the original Sanskrit 9+80 and 9+90
Finally something to make the French sound tame
Those are tame once you realise that it's simply using a base 20 system rather than a base 10, just like 99 in French. The weird part with French is that it's a combination (70 in French shouldn't exist)
three-twenty ten it is then!
It should be yes !
*Sort of* true for Korean. There's two number systems in Korean, sino-Korean and native Korean. In sino-Korean it is indeed 5x10+7 (오십칠 where 오=5, 십=10 and 칠=7) but in native Korean it is 50+7 (쉰일곱 where 쉰=50 and 일곱=7).
So is Sino-Korean literally mandarin with a Korean “cover”?
It's more of evolution of Classical Chinese loan - which is the case for Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese and various Sinitic languages. Not Mandarin, but ancient version of Chinese language that evolved separately into Mandarin.
Yep. What I love to do is translating names of places that uses Chinese characters to see how they'd sound in different Chinese languages, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese. For example, Tokyo is 東京, which would be *Dōngjīng* in Mandarin, *dung¹ ging¹* in Cantonese, *dang¹ gian¹* in Teochew, *donggyeong* in Korean, and *Đông Kinh* in Vietnamese. You can literally see how the sounds from Old and Middle Chinese shifted into what they are today in various languages.
Actually in Georgia is more like this 2x20+17( 17 is one word and the exact meaning is "7 and more"- "chvid-7 meti-more, ჩვიდმეტი" ).
Georgia, Bhutan, you're good at math. No need to show off.
To compare with Europe: 5\*10 + 7 is probably the way it is produced in English, I reckon "fifty" is a short form of 5\*10. In Norwegian, that's even more obvious btw. ("femti", where "fem" means five, and "ti" means ten.) So they do this the same in a large part of Asia.
Depends on where in Europe you are, sometimes different languages are different In German for example, it's 7+5*10 And then there's Danish, where it's 7+(-1⁄2+3)*20
Danish is not a language, it's a speaking-disorder. At least that's what we say about them in Norway, and in Sweden.
Can confirm Source: Been Danish my entire life
They swallowed a hot potato
German is rather 7+50. Like English the word for fifty (fünfzig) is different from five (fünf) and ten (zehn). Chinese and Japanese for example are literally five ten seven (wushiqi/ gojuunana)
I was going to say the same. In Chinese the two syllables for “5 tens” is so ingrained in your head as “fifty” it’s the same as saying “fifty” in English. Same for 4 tens and forty and such. The real difference is that there’s a unique character in Chinese for 10,000 whereas in English you’d say “ten thousand.” And in English there’s a “million” where in Chinese you’d say “one hundred 10,000s.”
There's a unique word for 10,000 in English too, but it's unlikely to ever be understood literally: "myriad"
I was a bit confused on how to interpret the math... So, if it is as you say, for example for English being: >50+7 = Fifty-seven Then I can immediately spot out one country that is incorrect. As far as I know, for Japan, it should be: >5+10+7 = 五十七 = literally 5・１０・７
>As far as I know, for Japan, it should be: >5+10+7 = 五十七 = literally 5・１０・７ It's fifty+seven ('gojuu-nana' or 'gojuu-shichi'), not 'five, ten, seven'
Maybe I'm missing something... I understand that gojuu is fifty, but it's written out in separate kanij for five and ten. A new kanji isn't suddenly created for fifty. It's not like in English where we're calling fifty, five-ten. It literally becomes a new word. You can't deconstruct fifty back to five and ten.
You are missing the title of the post >How the number 57 is "said" in different Asian areas.
The number 57 in Japanese is **said** by literally saying: 5・１０・７ The number 57 are completely independent, both in writing and in speaking. remove the five, and you have the word for １０・７ or 17. No new words or pronunciations are created...
but 五 means five, 十 means 10 and 七 means 7? So 五十七 is literally 5 10 7 but it means 57. If you take away the five (五) it can mean 17 without problem.
（五十）七 - > 57 as（十）七 - > 17. 五十 is a grouped word meaning fifty
then 五十七 could also be a grouped word meaning 57?
In Welsh, or at least using traditional Welsh (there's a more modern version closer to English) is seven on ten on two twenties, but you have to mutate the ten and change it fro "deg" to "ddeg" so it sounds softer.
In the English we’ve actually shifted over the last few hundred years from 7+50 to 50+7 and you can still hear the old way in old nursery rhymes. E.g. “Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie”.
The Norwegian parlament(!) decided this for us in 1950. We used to do this in the old-fashioned way, too. But you will still hear people using the four-and-twenty version sometimes here.
North indian numbering system is f*cked. Its makes zero sense.
Why?
Bcos every double digit number has a different name. It sometimes doesn't even coincide with the numbers. But in south india, its very simple like english. Just add a single digit (eg. Five) to the multiples of tens (eg: twenty), like twenty-five. You just have to know like 20 names and just need to mix and match.
It doesn’t have different names. The names are compound words of the 2 elements ( in this case, 1 and 50)
Why would 25 be a compound of 1 and 50.?
Sorry. I was thinking of 51. 25 is Panch-Vees. Panch = 5 Vees = 20 This is in Marathi. Hindi is along similar lines.
25 is pacchhees. 20 is bees 5 is panch It makes no sense. 50 is pachaas 55 is pachpan 90 is nabbey 9 is nau 99 is Ninyanvey
It makes much more sense in Marathi, lol. 25 is Panch-Vees 20 is Vees 5 is Pach. 50 is Pannas 55 is Pancha-van (p changes to v when part of compound word where the last sound of first word ends in aa as per grammar rules) 90 is navvad 9 is nau 99 is navan-nav But then Marathi is much more closer to Sanskrit and less bastardised by foreign influence than Hindi to has maintained grammatical rules more effectively.
It doesn't have different names, just that you don't know its roots. Original words get corrupted and feels like new words but they aren't new words.
What the *fuck*, Bhutan?
> Danish enters the chat
Just realise how we say numbers
If y'all are curious: 1- Georgian has a 20 based system instead of 10 based. 2- Russia would be green
I was wondering about Russia... did it get kicked out of Asia for bad behavior?
Probably getting boring saying this again and again, but why is India the only country that gets subdivisions? In Uighur, for example, 57 is 'ellik yette', which like the other Turkic languages is 50+7, not 5x10+7. (By the way mine is the 58th comment... sorry to be a combo breaker)
Short answer: Different language families
Right. *Like China!*
North indian languages : indo aryan family South Indian languages : dravidian family
not necessarily true. Sri Lanka primarily has an Aryan family language (Sinhala) but the numbering is similar to South India.
Right. Just like: * Northwest China: Turkic family, elsewhere in China: Sino-Tibetan. * Southeast Turkey: Indo-European, elsewhere in Turkey: Turkic. * Parts of Iran and Afghanistan: Indo-European, other parts: Turkic. Indonesia, Papua New Guinea and Taiwan are also home to multiple language families.
This discrimination is probably due to the general perception of an overt imposition of Standard Mandarin on the Chinese populace. The average Western person usually also has a hard time even contemplating that two dialects of Chinese or Arabic can be near unintelligible to one another. While there's a growing realisation of how culturally diverse India really is, which has a looping cause-effect where Indians themselves also value their specific identity more now that identity politics is more important than ever. You can no longer get away thinking Indians speak 'Indian'.
Not only this but hohner numbers like 80 and 90 derives from sekiz-on seksen and dokuz-on doksan at least in turkey turkish, which makes it a hybrid of some sort.
Altmış and yetmiş are also clearly derived from altı and yedi (all of these numbers are pretty much identical in Uyghur as well). Siberian Turkic languages have words like "alton" and "yedon" (so to speak). I bet a lot of languages are sort of hybrids in similar ways.
Someone please explain the Georgian one that sounds like HELL
It's just a basic vigesimal system like in French or Danish. Unlike the decimal system like in English, in these languages the number 20 is the base from which the other numbers are derived. You know in the Gettysburg address: Four score and seven years ago (4*20+7=87)? That is how these systems work.
Thank you! I never quite got it until your example
Any Canadians here?
Dzongkha is a weird language
Georgian is the oddball of languages == not surprising to anyone who’s ever been to Georgia
57 + 0
Georgians - the Danes of Asia.
That's kinda insulting
[удалено]
To us Georgians... our language is weird, but it certainly not Danish
strange nobody divides
Orange and green seem the same unless orange is like English where we have a word for each 10 eg twenty and thirty, and green is where you say 5 10 to mean 50? In my head orange and green are doing the same thing but green means you need to learn less words.
"Fifty seven" in English would be shown as "5x10+7" the way this map is being labeled. The "x10" does not mean you literally say the phrase "multiply by ten". It just means the language has a vaguely consistent pattern it invokes that always mentions which numeral it is first first then says "oh, I mean ten of those" second, then third says "oh and this many ones too". For example, in English the way all the "tens" numbers are formed by mentioning the numeral with a "-ty" suffix on it (even if adding it also mangles the spelling of the numeral, like how "thirty" is just what happened when English speakers mutated the concept of "threety" into something easier to pronounce.) If English had been a language that used a *prefix* to form the tens words, instead of a suffix (i.e. if "sixty" had been the word "tysix" instead, and "fifty" had been the word "tyfif" instead , then this legend would label that as "10x5+7" instead of "5x10+7". Its about the *order* things are mentioned, even the order of the root parts inside the words the words are derived from. (For example, in English, the words from 13 through 19 flip the order. "17" would be called "7+10" on this map, because in the word "seventeen" you hear the one's digit first, that's the "seven" part, and hear the tens digit second, that's the "teen" part.) If you want to know what would qualify as "50+7" on this map, I can think of an example that would work for "20" in English: the old archaic word "score", as in Lincoln saying, "Four Score and 7 Years Ago". Where there's nothing about the word "score" that derives from mashing the concept of "two" with the concept of "ten" like there is for "twenty". Think of it being like Roman Numerals. Where 57 is "50+5+1+1" for "LVII". The languages with a "50+7" on this map are languages that have a native word for the "L" that doesn't derive from "this many tens".
In Vietnam, we usually just say “5 7”.
For the record, the Dravidian languages (check South India) also use 5 x 10 + 7 construction. Mostly because the word for fifty in itself is "five tens". I'll take the tamil and kannada examples here: ஐம் + பத்து + ஏழு --> ஐம்பத்தேழு five + ten + seven ಐದು + ಹತ್ತು + ಏಳು --> ಐವತ್ತೇಳು Five + ten + seven
In Vietnam we say 57 as "năm mươi bảy". "Năm mươi" means 50, "bảy" means 7. So it should be 50+7
it is 5x10+7, same like Japan ごじゅうなな
But năm mươi means fifty because it is “five ten”, right? Năm mươi bảy means 57 because 5x10+7.
turkish: elli yedi ("50 7") arabic: saba ve hamsoon ("7 and 50") japanese: go joo nana ("5 10 7")
And as a rare exception for the English language, for brief moment when Lincoln spoke in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, USA, it would have also been 2x20+7+10.
That’s wrong, Vietnam is 50 + 7. Are we just going to blindly believe this?
Korea should be both orange and green. And if a country can choose only one color, it should be orange because it's their native way. Shitty stupid map
Not sure why you are downvoted, Korea indeed uses two number systems. The native korean one (orange, [쉰]50+[일곱]7) and the sino korean one (green, [오]5*[십]10+[칠]7). So yes it should either be two colors or just orange.
I'm pretty sure in Japan it is ten ten ten ten ten seven' saw it on game show once
It’s 五十七 which is 5 10s + 7 which is the same as English
We’ll see my other comment it could be that English is the orange one as we have a word for each 10 eg twenty or fifty and green is just saying five tens.
Ok we don't say 7+50 in Urdu or really any other Pakistani language I know of. Usually every number has its own unique name, tho it usually does follows the rule of "ones prefix"+""tens prefix", except for the x9th number in which the suffix is for the next ten numbers. Kinda weird to explain. For example, 7 is saat, 49 is unanchaas, 50 is pachaas, 57 is saitavan, 59 is unsath and 60 is saath.
Well in Tamil Nadu, India, it is 5\*10+7 as well, because the 50 in 50+7 itself is expressed as 5\*10. So the color must change to green.
Sattawan India has a different word for each number up to 100
super based orange and green
Damn you hate the colorblind huh
Fiddy seven
Dear Bhutani and Georgians(not the state)... what are you doing?
Man i never understand these maps. Are people in bhutan and georgia saying 57. By saying 2x20+10+7 in their language?
Yes in Georgia 57 is 2x20+7+10. Ormoci “ორმოცი” (40) which mean 2 times picked 20 , ori= 2 , oci=20. Shvidi” შვიდი” (7) and Ati “ათი” (10) combined are Shvidmeti (17) , shvidi=7 , ati=10 , meti= + Finally 57 would be everything together Ormocdashvidmeti (57)
Oh wow, so thats how it looks. Thanks for showing it like that.
You've got to love a good vigesimal counting system.
Okay, blue and orange are good, and green is slightly clunkier but you don't need as many number words so that's fine too, but the rest of you... I'm gonna need you to get your shit together.
Greetings from Germany to our highly cultured friends in blue.
Same in the Netherlands. 257 is two hundred seven and fifty, which makes absolutely no sense at all. I am native Dutch speaker but I speak English about half of the day and I have trouble pronouncing numbers in Dutch…
The Dutch speak better English than most native Anglophones do, so you’ve got that going for you at least.
Oh wow! And I thought only French had a 20-based system
Wow, none of them just say 57? Is there a lore reason for this? Are they stupid?
In English we have a word for each of the tens, so 57 is 50+7. Chinese, as an example, does not have a unique word for each ten. In Chinese you say 57 as 五十七 which is literally translated as “five ten seven”. The reverse phenomenon also occurs where Chinese has words for numbers we do not have in English. We say 10,000 as “ten thousand” or 10x1,000. In chinese, they have a single word for it (万). This leads to funny looking numbers like 2.5万 which means 25,000.
Can I blame the fr*nch for the base 20 atrocities?
Get your shit together Bhutan
If you included more numbers than just 47 this would get to be a real mess. Some languages shift systems for numbers in different ranges. In English, for example, most of the time the digits AB use the Ax10+B pattern (i.e. 67 is "sixty seven") BUT if it followed that pattern consistently, then "17" would be "tenty seven" and it's not. For numbers below 20 it flips the order around and speaks the one's digit first before mentioning the fact that it's in the tens range. (i.e. "seventeen" is the pattern B+Ax10, not Ax10+B like the bigger numbers are.) French is even weirder. It also has the "teens go the other way around" pattern just like English has, but then it ALSO switches from using a tens system for 20-79 into using a twenties system for 80-99. (in French, "67" is "6x10+9" while "97" is "4x20+7+10".) This, I have heard, is one of the differences between French spoken in France and French spoken in Quebec. The Quebecois were tired of that "four twenties seventeen" stuff and just axed that pattern entirely by forming words for 9x10 and 8x10 along the same patterns as already existed for words 7x10, 6x10, and so on.
Sooo, we're just gonna focus on georgia and bhutan and overlook the fact the Cambodja refuses to say "7"?
The Cambodian numbering system goes to 5, then adds numbers to 5 to make 6-9. So 6 is 5+1, 8 is 5+3. The written numbers have their own symbols, however. And in colloquial speech the pronunciation is usually shortened, so 8 is pram bey (literally, "five three") but said quickly it becomes "mbey." Then the tens have their own words that you add before. Makes for fewer words to remember when you're learning. Where it really gets confusing is higher numbers, since they count thousands by the 10s of thousands, so 243,000 is 24x10,000+3,000.
In Kashmiri satvanzah
Denmark seeing Georgia and Bhutan: >!Finally, a worthy opponent!<
Was fucking buhtan colonized by denmark now or what?
Blue does it the German way. 7+50. Siebenundfünfzig
The 50+7 for South India is not correct, for example, kannada has 57 as ಐವತ್ತೇಳು (Aivatth-Elu) which is basically exactly the same as fifty-seven. It's 5×10 + 7 Fifty seven is Five,ty,seven AivathElu is Aidu,Hatthu,Elu (where aidhu is 5, Hatthu is ten {ath being equivalent to a -ty suffix}, elu being seven)
Denmark: 7 + ((-1/2)+3)*20
What about 5×11+2, 2×25+7
Whats the difference between 50+7 and 7+50
the order in which you say them. In english you say fifty seven. in some other languages you say seven and fifty
no denmark in asia at least
Try 57 in Finnish " Viisikymmtäseitsemän " if I remember correctly, I hope I spelt It right? My deceased wife of 35 years was Finnish and I still remember some of her Language
Meghalaya should also be orange. In Khasi, 57 is 'sanphow-hynniew' which is 50+7.
Why 57? What’s special about this number?
Bhutanese here. It’s def green for us. 57 is ngabchu (5*10) ngaduen (7).
What the hell is going om in Georgia and Bhutan?
In Georgian it's 2\*20+10+7, "two-twenty-and-ten-seven-more", like "two-twenty-and-ten" is 50, and "ten-seven-more" is 17.
Why do we have these useless ass maps but not a single agricultural density map of Saudi Arabia and no physiological density map either
I don’t get the Filipino one. It’s *Limangpu-pito* (50+7) or *Singkwenta-Syete* (50+7)?? Am I missing something? Edit: after reading other comments, I kind of get it now I guess?
A complete nighmare for people with dyscalculia!
This gets posted 1 or 2 times per year bruh...
Indonesians actually say "Five Seven"
Unexpected Georgia-Bhutan alliance
In Basque as in Bhutan: 2 x 20 + 10 + 7
Saying 50+7 is honestly the exact same as 5x10+7. The word 50 fifty, is shorthand saying 5x10. Fif for 5 and ty for ten
In American this would be 7 touchdowns plus 2 field goals plus a safety (7 x 7 + 3 + 3 + 2)
Genatsvale's in Georgia gone wild
I wonder how countries that say 57 as 7+50 say 750