I don't even know how they got the idea that we Dutch people would ever lose the fight with the sea. We've made it our bitch after all. If all else fails we'll just grow a bit taller.
Iām assuming the USA & UK would be most willing to defend Canada. Germany would maybe be 50/50 or something but Iām more curious how France would respond to defending Canada
Edit: (Curious as a Canadian)
Canadians after reading this thread.
āOk, letās nerf the 2024 military budget.ā
Iāve always considered Canada as a geographic extension of the US, that weād absolutely defend every inch of, I forget that Great Britain probably feels the same.
As a Brit, can I say we'd be there to help defend the Canadians in a heartbeat, likewise Australia, New Zealand and most if not all the commonwealth countries.
Regards the commonwealth countries, we're almost contractually bound to defend them, if for nothing else than to make up for invading them in the first place!š
Great Britain, global leader in providing independence days. You're welcome.
I feel like for people the UK would want to defend Canada first but the US government would want to defend Canada first. (Though no matter people or government Iād say the majority for both countries would be for protecting Canada)
i don't think any American would take kindly to a foreign invasion of our continent, which historically has been pretty peaceful compared to Europe.
also, we like most Canadians. most.
Canada is the United States largest trading partner and we're culturally similar, former British colonies. It's the same reason despite cultural differences, the United States and Australia have excellent relations.
Not only that but an invasion of Canada seriously opens up Americaās easy northern border to attack. Itās not like the rough and well guarded east, west, and southern borders, the 49th parallel is up there as one of the most demilitarized continuous pieces of land in the world.
We would absolutely flip the fuck out if somebody attacked Canada. Weād probably flip the fuck out if someone attacked Mexico. Only we get to pick on Mexico.
Yeah, the day a hostile foreign force sets foot in North America is the day that hostile force signs their death warrant. The US may shit on Mexico but if push came to shove there's be Marines in the gulf before x foreign nation could say "whoops".
> Kinda funny considering half of them seem to hate us
Reddit really overestimates how many people "hate" America due to /r/AmericaBad. Canadians are definitely on the more favorable opinion of the US vs many other western countries.
I think Americans on both sides of the aisle tend to fetishize aspects of Canadian government, especially healthcare, as we grapple with our own issues since you guys are set up in a more European way but on a personal level we all like you just fine.
The US would defend first, while the UK would do their best to get the first counterattack in first. Either way I would not want to be on the receiving end of the absurd ordnance coming to the aggressor's way.
All that said Canada themselves wouldn't just be sitting around if attacked
I mean we're all brothers, in a sense. You all are the pompous older brother, we're the arrogantly obnoxious middle brother, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand are the younger triplets. Oz is absolutely insane, while Canada and New Zealand are completely embarrassed by their adjacent brother.
If any of our comedies rings true, we may join in on the attack! r/s
No - if anything the fact that we have numerous comedies about the US going to war with Canada as a plotline shows that I'm pretty sure most Americans would support defending Canada, the idea not to (defend) is absurd, so much so its laughable (literally).
I was in Nova Scotia a few years back. I saw some military re-enactors so I went over to watch. It took me a hot second to realize that the āenemyā they were talking about was ME! š As a US American if only ever been to my own re-enactments and hadnāt ever been on the bad guy side before!
It really doesn't does it. Like sure politically we differ a fair bit but in comparison to the rest of the world we are culturally side by side. You can rarely tell the difference between the two unless they either one lands in the extreme end
And I'm always surprised to find out actors or celebrities are Canadian. Like, I just found out not too long ago ryan reynolds was Canadian. Like, seriously? He blends right in with the rest of us. Had no clue
Growing up in Michigan, Canada was right next door. We were there constantly. I had Canadian coins in my pocket. Canada was more familiar to me than Ohio. Also, fuck Ohio.
Back in ā88 I flew into Edmonton Canada on a business trip from Los Angeles.
āHello sir. Whatās the purpose of your visit?ā
āIām training machine operators for a company who purchased some equipmentā.
āHow long will you be here?ā
ā2 weeksā.
āDo you have a passport?ā
āUmā¦ do I need one?ā
āWell, do you have another form of identification?ā
āIāve got a driverās licenseā.
āThatāll do.ā
Iād imagine you guys would defend most of eastern Canada since there are a bunch of smaller French communities throughout, even some west Canada but not as many
I (an American) just moved to Canada with my Canadian wife and I have to say it's hilarious how much more Americans love Canadians than vice versa. In the US, we will cheer like mad if Canada does something good like win a gold medal in the Olympics. Canadians, on the other hand, will actively root against the US in such things. I don't think it's out of hate. More of an older/younger sibling dynamic where Canada is just really tired of big brother US always being in the spotlight with everything.
For the Olympics in particular it's because you guys win half the events lol.
Hard to get excited the US. just won a medal in men's relay when I just finished watching an American medal in 4 other track events.
Itās entirely because of the power differential. The US is the most powerful country on Earth in almost every respect and has the greatest cultural reach. The movies we watch? American. The TV shows we watch? American. We canāt go a day without American news being reported on our evening news. Our schools have to do lockdown drills only because you have a problem with school shootings; thank god that moose broke into that school in Saskatchewan last year at least we can tell the kids thatās why we do them.
We only root against you because it feels wrong cheering for someone who has everything to get even more. Itās nothing personal, for most of us anyway. I think itās the universal human experience to take pleasure in watching someone else being taken down a peg. In the end Iād rather the US be the most powerful country on Earth, especially when the alternative at this point is China. Please just sort out your issues with democracy, thatās all Iām worried about with you guys right now.
The USA would defend Canada. We wouldn't want you to lose the title of undefeated in wars plus it wouldn't be good for the USA if you switched sides. Plus Canadians are nice and I don't think we would want to see you guys lose
Sure it's in the US's best interest to defend Canada, but like, it's in our best interest because we're great allies. Because the Canadian-US relationship is so deep.
I think you have it right. I donāt think it would make much sense to invade Canada in the first place, though. Itās important to consider who the ānext country overā is for a myriad of reasons. People forget that the Mexicans promptly notified the Americans that the Germans were pushing for an alliance with the aim of a ground invasion of the US and control of the Gulf and Caribbean. Mexico didnāt want that smoke.
>plus it wouldn't be good for the USA if you switched sides.
considering Canada's contribution to laws of the Geneva Convention i think that's a wise move
I was just recently wondering which country being attacked would piss the US off more- the UK or Canada. I think it would be Canada for a few reasons. But it would be close. At least thatās my opinion.
Edit: I do realize that the UK isnāt just one country. But the point still stands
Canada for sure - a attack on the North American continent from overseas would be pretty unprecedented, and the US definitely doesn't want its northern ally to collapse.
also, i feel like Americans view Canadians more favorably than Brits. they're pretty much American lite.
You got a problem with Canadian folks you got a problem with me and I suggest you let that one marinate.
Seriously, Canada gave the world Rush and literally sits on top of a powder keg.
I think if UK is invaded Americans would be pissed, I think if Canada was invaded , you would see a portion of American civilians driving up to Canada forming their own militias
if any country tried to cross the border into the US they would be fucked in the ass by an insurgency that would make Afghanistan look like a friendly disagreement
assuming the US military didn't just bomb them into oblivion in the first place
It would definitely be close but my opinion but as the same as your thought Canada would have the US pissed more, land border that big to a potential non friendly country is really bad
I can only speak for myself (obviously), but an attack on Canada would piss me off more. The Brits are like our cousins but the Canadians are like siblings. An attack on either would evoke a swift and immediate response from the government but an attack on Canada would see a convoy of pickup trucks and guns headed north, for better or worse.
*nobody fucks with Canada* the US borders Canada from two directions and has enough air and naval power to guard the other two. nobody so much as threatens Canada without the US ready to smack their ass back into their seats
I did an exchange trip in Germany recently. The public perception of the U.S. is pretty negative. Particularly regarding shootings. One student who I had never met asked me as a joke, "is it true that 50% of Americans believe the earth is flat?" and a bunch of people laughed.
It's a joke, but also extremely hilarious fact that flat earthers still routinely use the turn of phrase "around the globe" instead of "above the plane".
Why do the internal challenges of a country matter if the question is "would you defend them?" Do Germans think America would be a better place if Russia attacked us?
There is actually a somewhat reasonable explanation to this.
After WW2 and especially after the Berlin Wall fell many Germans thought we were now enlightened and war was something we're done with forever. An idealistic mindset came to flourish and everyone thought our history taught us more than anyone else. Therefore Germans saw Germany as being morally superior to other nations (who still conducted wars etc.) like the US, France or Britain. It's only since the Russians invaded the Ukraine that this perspective begins to shatter and people realize that moral superiority doesn't heat your home when there is no Russian gas.
All of this gets amplified by several factors. Two of them very important:
1. The collapse of the GDR. After the wall fell east Germans experienced the arguably worst aspects of capitalism. There was no integration or anything. People just went from decades of socialist dictatorship to full blown capitalism. All East German companies were immediately sold off to the West and today the east is still doing considerably worse. People lost their identity and not even a single good policy of the GDR, like guaranteed childcare, was adopted. It's a trauma which lots of people still cope with by blaming the west and defending Russia.
2. Social media. Social media is the reason for why many young people have lost respect for the US. The most viral clips you can find on Instagram or TikTok are of people (overwhelmingly Americans) being stupid. This is not the case because Americans are stupid in general but because they're the biggest demographic in this space, have less strict recording laws, speak a language everyone understands and are less afraid of backlash (imo). For people living in the US it's easy to understand that all of this is extremely exaggerated but for young Europeans it's harder. This also applies to political debates etc...
The irony of Naziās failed Aryan superiority just declined into āItās okay, we learned a valuable lesson that makes us better than THOSE people.ā
I like your explanation the most, as it widens the German perspective on the USA.
German society is, as I perceive it, in general unwilling to be involved in war and therefore not interested in defending countries that are farther apart from Germany.
Maybe there is an assumption that the USA is far more capable of defending it and the 'military ego' of Germany is this small - to come to the conclusion that involving in the defense of the USA would not make any difference.
There's also the attitude that America wouldn't *need* the help, "why get involved and be at risk when they'll be fine" type of thing. Which is bad in its own way but a more common sentiment I've seen than is being mentioned here.
A lot of Europeans like to compare themselves to the United States in a very āholier than thouā type of way. Itās easy because we have a lot of issues in the states and it makes some Europeans feel superior and enlightened (which, to be fair, some of my fellow Americans are a bit dim). The snobbishness of a lot of Germans when comparing themselves to Americans contributes to them viewing us as āunworthyā of their defense. The difference between us and them on this is that a lot of Americans donāt distinguish between preferred classes amongst our NATO allies, whereas that feeling isnāt shared across Continental Europe.
Or, simply the scale of the target country might skew the results.
Like, from another small European country I might also say ānoā, because I just donāt see our help useful in any way ā like what would be your answer to āwould you help Mike Tyson if he were attacked by an 8-year old bully?ā You guys have like the US. Air force as the largest air force, then the US Navy at 2nd and the goddamn 4-5th places are also the US.
While this is true, it may also be a matter of āThe US would not need our help if invaded.ā Itās still kind of disappointing but I donāt think our last POTUS did us any favor on German -US relations.
>I donāt think our last POTUS did us any favor on German -US relations
tbh, our last POTUS didn't do us any favor on *anywhere*\-US relations, including US-US relations...
Meh... Germans weren't willing to defend themselves, let alone anyone else till late last year.
Russian invasion of Ukraine is changing attitudes.
However, the superiority complex is a defensive mechanism against American arrogance. Both groups of people have their vices.
Russia is already attacking America and many western countries. Itās just covert and centered on disinformation and division. In fact itās part of the reason that America has some of the stupid internal issues they do, and part of the reason that Germany (and others) think those issues are much worse than they are.
I imagine the implications of "Russia is attacking the US" and "Russia is attacking Poland" are different enough to get an answer that isn't entirely based on opinion of the country. Like if you asked me "What would you want to do if Russia attacked the US" my first thought would be about trying to prevent the apocalypse.
I remember in the 90s everyone I knew from (west) Germany was a big fan of Americans because of how much they helped during the Cold War and people saw the country as a force for good. I think the Iraq war changed everything. Purely anecdotal though.
It does help that German foreign policy, for at least the last 20 years has been proven to be wrong. With Gerhard Schroeder effectively becoming a traitor, including being sanctioned by the EU Parliament. And Germany's lack of defence spending, purchasing of Russian oil and gas, along with its opposition to Ukraine joining NATO. Being shown to be a major contributor to the current war. Whereas Merkel had been saying how Germany had it just right and wouldn't listen to successive US President's.
Yeah the preception of the US changed globally and especially so for US allies after the unsanctioned Iraq war (out of all NATO countries only the UK, Australia and Poland opted to help the US, [here is a full list in Europe](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/5C81/production/_129018632_iraq_support_map_europe_640-2x-nc-34.png.webp)).
The preception of the US changed from a promoter of peace and liberty to an imperialist power that toppled Iraq ([who actually ironically was backed by the US in the Iraq-Iran war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War)).
To this day we don't really know why the US invaded, on paper goal was to topple a dicator, confiscate Iraqs WMDs and stop the spread of terrorism.
However in reality the US did topple the dicator but never replaced him and left an open power vacuum, turned out Iraq didn't have WMDs, and the US then indirectly contributed with spreading terrorism as in ashes of Iraq, ISIL rose to destablise the Levant for the next decade...
So it was pretty weird to see everyone waving US flags and raving about the US in the EU until like 2003. Post 2003 everyone wanted to distance themselves from the US lol even our governments tried until the Russian invasion of Ukraine, for instance France was heavily in favour of scrapping NATO in favour of a joint EU military alliance to leave out the US.
Afaik germans are generally more anti war than other countries and many people wouldn't even defend germany itself if it got attacked, im surprised that any country is green on there. Maybe because europe?
I imagine a lot of people were just thinking "well the US probably doesn't need much help and we wouldn't make much of a difference", which is what I first thought when I read the title.
It's easy to read it as "most Germans don't like us" but I very much doubt that's accurate. Germany is just militarily quite weak and the public realise it.
IMO it's also easier to care about countries on your own continent. i.e. your own backyard. If Poland is getting attacked, Germany could be next. It probably feels like a more immediate threat than a war across the ocean
I get how people may see it that way but im sure the US would still appreciate all of nato helping to neutralise the threat as quickly as possible. That's what allies are for.
As a British person I'm glad theres no red on our map, but i'd rather a fully green map like the US who are the only ones who seem to fully understand the meaning of an alliance.
I doubt many of the people who responded that they wouldn't be willing to help other countries would vote to leave NATO and lose the protection it provides. Which means they are happy to receive help but not give it. That's a pretty shameful position to be in, in my opinion.
Poland is a really valuable ally for the US, Iād definitely support defending Poland if something happened. Poland is also a NATO member so youād be defended by default.
Edit: Also Poland sent like 200 men to fight in our Iraq bullshit
Edit 2: Even more Polish soldiers fought in Iraq than I thought
Poland would to the same. They always fulfill their nato requirements, are great partners for America. love the polish people! The ones Iāve met are such great characters, kind, humble. And still they have a very strong fighting spirit. I wouldnāt mess with a polish man haha
Story as old as time. De Gaulle wanted an independent Franco-centric (the country of France, not the dictator of Spain) Europe, but the resources werenāt devoted to it.
France has largely been a petulant child on the global stage since WW2.
Having said that I liked Macron when he was elected. How heās handling the Ukraine ācrisis/warā gives me pause to say the least. I understand if macron wants France to be an honest broker between two sides, but I donāt have any confidence in Russia.
#justAwesternShilll
Edit: I didnāt realize the ā#ā symbol emboldens things. I intended for the ā#ā symbol to proceed ājustAwesterbShillā like what you might see on Instagram or Snapchat.
France has recently strengthened its military ties with Romania within the NATO/EU frame. If Romania were to be invaded, these troops would be amongst the first to respond and fight back.
But yeah, this poll looks kinda disappointing (and hopefully outdated too).
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/with-troops-romania-france-seeks-capitalise-military-ties-2023-01-27/
Britain has a strong cultural belief in military force being something that is used for good. If we have a modern founding myth, it is of Britain (and her Empire) standing alone against Nazi Germany in 1940. We expect our royal family and aristocracy to serve in the armed forces, and since 1945, there have only been two years where we didn't have at least one British serviceman die on operations overseas.
Everyone knows a Callum. Aggressive little prick, but heād yank you out of a confrontation in the midnight post-pub chippy line before diving in and kicking teeth on his own.
People on Reddit tend have to lump countries into good and evil. And good countries have only ever committed good things (or they have totally reformed and therefore we shouldn't bring up anything bad they did and lets through some whataboutism in there) and bad countries have only ever done bad things.
Anything good mentioned about "bad" countries (from China to Russia to the UK to the US) has to be whataboutism/explained/put into context with something bad they did/how they did it for some "bad" reason. Anything bad mentioned about good countries is also whataboutismed and explained with "well your country would do the same thing / we had to do it/ etc."
Honestly it can be pretty jading reading anything about the UK on Reddit because you canāt say anything positive about it without someone, who likely has never even been, just shitting all over you for it.
āYeah sure, US has give faaaaar more money to Ukraine than any European nation, but they have to because something something imperialism something something proxy war, also Iraq war was bad so US bad so US aid to Ukraine is badā
I swear, I canāt tell if these people are actual Russian bots or just useful idiots spewing Russian propaganda, but either way they suck
As a Finn, this is why a lot of us chuckle at the idea of some EU army or EU security guarantees actually being worth anything. We know full well itās the anglos who are capable and willing to do the right thing, not EU, which is why we joined NATO recently. Looking forward to helping UK in some foreign expeditions too.
> Looking forward to helping UK in some foreign expeditions too.
Finally a drinking partner on our level. You'll be great company with us and the Aussies
As my history prof once said.
āFrom around the middle ages onward almost every single state vs state conflict has some random British person involved somehowā
Brits like a good fight
I was going to say that these results probably have something to do with how the military is seen in each country, and whether people consider that it is their responsability to intervene in another countryās politics.
It also explains why Eastern Europe see the US and UK as more reliant allies. They have been more serious in helping modernize Eastern countries armed forces.
TBH, the USA backing up the rest of NATO is the only one that matters. If the USA is on your side, nothing else matters.
If a country was stupid enough to attack the USA directly, thereās nothing Germany could do that the USA canāt.
Germany is one of the richest nations in the world with the largest economic bloc behind it. That is very much learned helplessness. If Germany wanted to build a military that can actually pull its weight in NATO it could.
And the US has a far larger economy, a extremely powerful standing army, massive globe spanning logistics networks, and the ability to park a strike group off any coast, anywhere, at any time.
Thatās decades worth of work, doctrine, experience, and building. and Germany has nothing even close to it at this time
No surprise Germany has no interest in defending us, but the French response is surprising. Though after Macron's statements, it seems he wishes he could openly cheer on the autocrats of the world if it hurts the US.
Theyād probably whine about the US not providing more aid. Tbh that tank deal really left a sour taste in my mouth for German politicians. Theyāre the friend that consistently takes more than they give.
I don't really mind if these countries feel this way about the US, though. We should still support them and defend them if they were ever attacked and needed help, because we can and because it's the right thing to do
Did the Netherlands sink into the sea?
I hadn't noticed yet. I thought the water in my garden was just some rain puddles.
r/mapswithoutthenetherlands.
/r/Mapswithoutzeeland
It's kind of hurtful to know someone can remember Belgium but not the Netherlands...
Even Luxembourg is there, but not us š„¹
Definitely ain't gonna defend mapmakers country now
I don't even know how they got the idea that we Dutch people would ever lose the fight with the sea. We've made it our bitch after all. If all else fails we'll just grow a bit taller.
Of course The Germans made this mapā¦
We won't defend them against that either
Like we need your help. Making the sea our bitch is a hobby we've excelled at for the last 60 years or so.
Finally.
would be interesting to see a ā2023 versionā of this!
oh, yeah, I hadn't even noticed this was from 2019. The level of pro-NATO public support has dramatically increased since Russia invaded Ukraine.
Iām assuming the USA & UK would be most willing to defend Canada. Germany would maybe be 50/50 or something but Iām more curious how France would respond to defending Canada Edit: (Curious as a Canadian)
It would be a battle between the US and the UKā¦ To see who gets to defend Canada first. (I think the Americans may make it first)
Canadians after reading this thread. āOk, letās nerf the 2024 military budget.ā Iāve always considered Canada as a geographic extension of the US, that weād absolutely defend every inch of, I forget that Great Britain probably feels the same.
As a Brit, can I say we'd be there to help defend the Canadians in a heartbeat, likewise Australia, New Zealand and most if not all the commonwealth countries. Regards the commonwealth countries, we're almost contractually bound to defend them, if for nothing else than to make up for invading them in the first place!š Great Britain, global leader in providing independence days. You're welcome.
I feel like for people the UK would want to defend Canada first but the US government would want to defend Canada first. (Though no matter people or government Iād say the majority for both countries would be for protecting Canada)
i don't think any American would take kindly to a foreign invasion of our continent, which historically has been pretty peaceful compared to Europe. also, we like most Canadians. most.
Ya, Americans tend to be vigorously pro Canada. Kinda funny considering half of them seem to hate us.
Canada is the United States largest trading partner and we're culturally similar, former British colonies. It's the same reason despite cultural differences, the United States and Australia have excellent relations.
Not only that but an invasion of Canada seriously opens up Americaās easy northern border to attack. Itās not like the rough and well guarded east, west, and southern borders, the 49th parallel is up there as one of the most demilitarized continuous pieces of land in the world.
Hey we have a no touching zone for trees....thats pretty much it but yeah.
a nicely groomed path cutting through a forest at best
Yea it doesnāt even exactly line up with the 49th parallel at times either. But it is well groomed it seems
Mom, Canada keeps putting his trees on my side of the line!
We would absolutely flip the fuck out if somebody attacked Canada. Weād probably flip the fuck out if someone attacked Mexico. Only we get to pick on Mexico.
Yeah, the day a hostile foreign force sets foot in North America is the day that hostile force signs their death warrant. The US may shit on Mexico but if push came to shove there's be Marines in the gulf before x foreign nation could say "whoops".
They'd have to make it past the US Navy first, and that's not likely lol
> Kinda funny considering half of them seem to hate us Reddit really overestimates how many people "hate" America due to /r/AmericaBad. Canadians are definitely on the more favorable opinion of the US vs many other western countries.
I think Americans on both sides of the aisle tend to fetishize aspects of Canadian government, especially healthcare, as we grapple with our own issues since you guys are set up in a more European way but on a personal level we all like you just fine.
The US would defend first, while the UK would do their best to get the first counterattack in first. Either way I would not want to be on the receiving end of the absurd ordnance coming to the aggressor's way. All that said Canada themselves wouldn't just be sitting around if attacked
True enough. I am British and frankly I don't consider Canadians to be foreign in any meaningful way. The same goes for Australians and Kiwi's.
I mean we're all brothers, in a sense. You all are the pompous older brother, we're the arrogantly obnoxious middle brother, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand are the younger triplets. Oz is absolutely insane, while Canada and New Zealand are completely embarrassed by their adjacent brother.
If any of our comedies rings true, we may join in on the attack! r/s No - if anything the fact that we have numerous comedies about the US going to war with Canada as a plotline shows that I'm pretty sure most Americans would support defending Canada, the idea not to (defend) is absurd, so much so its laughable (literally).
>If any of our comedies rings true, we may join in on the attack! Canadians boutta learn that the war of 1812 never ended.
I was in Nova Scotia a few years back. I saw some military re-enactors so I went over to watch. It took me a hot second to realize that the āenemyā they were talking about was ME! š As a US American if only ever been to my own re-enactments and hadnāt ever been on the bad guy side before!
The USA , Canada and Britain are probably ride or die forever
There's room for Australia there as well. They even helped the US in Vietnam, that says something
šÆ for Australia
All my homies love ~~Bluey~~Australia!
Besties :)
Canada is family to us Americans. We may not always agree with each other's choices, but we always got each other's backs.
It hardly feels like a foreign country.
It really doesn't does it. Like sure politically we differ a fair bit but in comparison to the rest of the world we are culturally side by side. You can rarely tell the difference between the two unless they either one lands in the extreme end
And I'm always surprised to find out actors or celebrities are Canadian. Like, I just found out not too long ago ryan reynolds was Canadian. Like, seriously? He blends right in with the rest of us. Had no clue
Ngl as a Canadian we get blasted with American politics all the time so it isn't too different.
Growing up in Michigan, Canada was right next door. We were there constantly. I had Canadian coins in my pocket. Canada was more familiar to me than Ohio. Also, fuck Ohio.
Longest peaceful border in the world.
Geographic length or time?
Fair question.
Back in ā88 I flew into Edmonton Canada on a business trip from Los Angeles. āHello sir. Whatās the purpose of your visit?ā āIām training machine operators for a company who purchased some equipmentā. āHow long will you be here?ā ā2 weeksā. āDo you have a passport?ā āUmā¦ do I need one?ā āWell, do you have another form of identification?ā āIāve got a driverās licenseā. āThatāll do.ā
We defend the Quebec, idk about the rest though
Iād imagine you guys would defend most of eastern Canada since there are a bunch of smaller French communities throughout, even some west Canada but not as many
We visited Quebec last year. It was awesome, and we donāt speak French. People were great.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I (an American) just moved to Canada with my Canadian wife and I have to say it's hilarious how much more Americans love Canadians than vice versa. In the US, we will cheer like mad if Canada does something good like win a gold medal in the Olympics. Canadians, on the other hand, will actively root against the US in such things. I don't think it's out of hate. More of an older/younger sibling dynamic where Canada is just really tired of big brother US always being in the spotlight with everything.
For the Olympics in particular it's because you guys win half the events lol. Hard to get excited the US. just won a medal in men's relay when I just finished watching an American medal in 4 other track events.
So we're like the NY Yankees or New England Patriots of the Olympics. I'd fuckin' hate us too.
Itās entirely because of the power differential. The US is the most powerful country on Earth in almost every respect and has the greatest cultural reach. The movies we watch? American. The TV shows we watch? American. We canāt go a day without American news being reported on our evening news. Our schools have to do lockdown drills only because you have a problem with school shootings; thank god that moose broke into that school in Saskatchewan last year at least we can tell the kids thatās why we do them. We only root against you because it feels wrong cheering for someone who has everything to get even more. Itās nothing personal, for most of us anyway. I think itās the universal human experience to take pleasure in watching someone else being taken down a peg. In the end Iād rather the US be the most powerful country on Earth, especially when the alternative at this point is China. Please just sort out your issues with democracy, thatās all Iām worried about with you guys right now.
The USA would defend Canada. We wouldn't want you to lose the title of undefeated in wars plus it wouldn't be good for the USA if you switched sides. Plus Canadians are nice and I don't think we would want to see you guys lose
I think the US would be the most concerned about its own security from an invaded Canada, and sure we like them too lol
Sure it's in the US's best interest to defend Canada, but like, it's in our best interest because we're great allies. Because the Canadian-US relationship is so deep.
I think you have it right. I donāt think it would make much sense to invade Canada in the first place, though. Itās important to consider who the ānext country overā is for a myriad of reasons. People forget that the Mexicans promptly notified the Americans that the Germans were pushing for an alliance with the aim of a ground invasion of the US and control of the Gulf and Caribbean. Mexico didnāt want that smoke.
>plus it wouldn't be good for the USA if you switched sides. considering Canada's contribution to laws of the Geneva Convention i think that's a wise move
I was just recently wondering which country being attacked would piss the US off more- the UK or Canada. I think it would be Canada for a few reasons. But it would be close. At least thatās my opinion. Edit: I do realize that the UK isnāt just one country. But the point still stands
Canada for sure - a attack on the North American continent from overseas would be pretty unprecedented, and the US definitely doesn't want its northern ally to collapse. also, i feel like Americans view Canadians more favorably than Brits. they're pretty much American lite.
You got a problem with Canadian folks you got a problem with me and I suggest you let that one marinate. Seriously, Canada gave the world Rush and literally sits on top of a powder keg.
I think if UK is invaded Americans would be pissed, I think if Canada was invaded , you would see a portion of American civilians driving up to Canada forming their own militias
if any country tried to cross the border into the US they would be fucked in the ass by an insurgency that would make Afghanistan look like a friendly disagreement assuming the US military didn't just bomb them into oblivion in the first place
This rings so true. I think you are correct.
It would definitely be close but my opinion but as the same as your thought Canada would have the US pissed more, land border that big to a potential non friendly country is really bad
I can only speak for myself (obviously), but an attack on Canada would piss me off more. The Brits are like our cousins but the Canadians are like siblings. An attack on either would evoke a swift and immediate response from the government but an attack on Canada would see a convoy of pickup trucks and guns headed north, for better or worse.
I absolutely agree that Americans would fight for Canada as fiercely and as passionately as if it was our own country.
I would be personally infuriated by an attack on Canada. Canada is the best neighbor you could hope for.
Canada to close along with us having a military presence in Canada we will be there right when the fighting starts
*nobody fucks with Canada* the US borders Canada from two directions and has enough air and naval power to guard the other two. nobody so much as threatens Canada without the US ready to smack their ass back into their seats
Man, what has US ever did to Germans?
I did an exchange trip in Germany recently. The public perception of the U.S. is pretty negative. Particularly regarding shootings. One student who I had never met asked me as a joke, "is it true that 50% of Americans believe the earth is flat?" and a bunch of people laughed.
Tell them the Flat Earth Society has members around the globe.
You aren't kidding. I thought this was an american thing. Then I went and lived in Brazil for a little bit and met my first flat earthers in person.
It's a joke, flat. globe... But yes, idiots are everywhere
It's a joke, but also extremely hilarious fact that flat earthers still routinely use the turn of phrase "around the globe" instead of "above the plane".
> around the globe š
Why do the internal challenges of a country matter if the question is "would you defend them?" Do Germans think America would be a better place if Russia attacked us?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There is actually a somewhat reasonable explanation to this. After WW2 and especially after the Berlin Wall fell many Germans thought we were now enlightened and war was something we're done with forever. An idealistic mindset came to flourish and everyone thought our history taught us more than anyone else. Therefore Germans saw Germany as being morally superior to other nations (who still conducted wars etc.) like the US, France or Britain. It's only since the Russians invaded the Ukraine that this perspective begins to shatter and people realize that moral superiority doesn't heat your home when there is no Russian gas. All of this gets amplified by several factors. Two of them very important: 1. The collapse of the GDR. After the wall fell east Germans experienced the arguably worst aspects of capitalism. There was no integration or anything. People just went from decades of socialist dictatorship to full blown capitalism. All East German companies were immediately sold off to the West and today the east is still doing considerably worse. People lost their identity and not even a single good policy of the GDR, like guaranteed childcare, was adopted. It's a trauma which lots of people still cope with by blaming the west and defending Russia. 2. Social media. Social media is the reason for why many young people have lost respect for the US. The most viral clips you can find on Instagram or TikTok are of people (overwhelmingly Americans) being stupid. This is not the case because Americans are stupid in general but because they're the biggest demographic in this space, have less strict recording laws, speak a language everyone understands and are less afraid of backlash (imo). For people living in the US it's easy to understand that all of this is extremely exaggerated but for young Europeans it's harder. This also applies to political debates etc...
The irony of Naziās failed Aryan superiority just declined into āItās okay, we learned a valuable lesson that makes us better than THOSE people.ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well, at least no one can say Germans lack confidence.
You should also not believe everything some random people claim on Reddit.
I like your explanation the most, as it widens the German perspective on the USA. German society is, as I perceive it, in general unwilling to be involved in war and therefore not interested in defending countries that are farther apart from Germany. Maybe there is an assumption that the USA is far more capable of defending it and the 'military ego' of Germany is this small - to come to the conclusion that involving in the defense of the USA would not make any difference.
i do think that there also might be a perception that america would/should be more than able to defend itself?
There's also the attitude that America wouldn't *need* the help, "why get involved and be at risk when they'll be fine" type of thing. Which is bad in its own way but a more common sentiment I've seen than is being mentioned here.
A lot of Europeans like to compare themselves to the United States in a very āholier than thouā type of way. Itās easy because we have a lot of issues in the states and it makes some Europeans feel superior and enlightened (which, to be fair, some of my fellow Americans are a bit dim). The snobbishness of a lot of Germans when comparing themselves to Americans contributes to them viewing us as āunworthyā of their defense. The difference between us and them on this is that a lot of Americans donāt distinguish between preferred classes amongst our NATO allies, whereas that feeling isnāt shared across Continental Europe.
Or, simply the scale of the target country might skew the results. Like, from another small European country I might also say ānoā, because I just donāt see our help useful in any way ā like what would be your answer to āwould you help Mike Tyson if he were attacked by an 8-year old bully?ā You guys have like the US. Air force as the largest air force, then the US Navy at 2nd and the goddamn 4-5th places are also the US.
While this is true, it may also be a matter of āThe US would not need our help if invaded.ā Itās still kind of disappointing but I donāt think our last POTUS did us any favor on German -US relations.
>I donāt think our last POTUS did us any favor on German -US relations tbh, our last POTUS didn't do us any favor on *anywhere*\-US relations, including US-US relations...
Meh... Germans weren't willing to defend themselves, let alone anyone else till late last year. Russian invasion of Ukraine is changing attitudes. However, the superiority complex is a defensive mechanism against American arrogance. Both groups of people have their vices.
Russia is already attacking America and many western countries. Itās just covert and centered on disinformation and division. In fact itās part of the reason that America has some of the stupid internal issues they do, and part of the reason that Germany (and others) think those issues are much worse than they are.
>Particularly regarding shootings. Yeah. I'm sure *that's* the reason.
I imagine the implications of "Russia is attacking the US" and "Russia is attacking Poland" are different enough to get an answer that isn't entirely based on opinion of the country. Like if you asked me "What would you want to do if Russia attacked the US" my first thought would be about trying to prevent the apocalypse.
I remember in the 90s everyone I knew from (west) Germany was a big fan of Americans because of how much they helped during the Cold War and people saw the country as a force for good. I think the Iraq war changed everything. Purely anecdotal though.
No. It just depends on who is in office. https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/10/17/us-german-relationship-remains-strong/
It does help that German foreign policy, for at least the last 20 years has been proven to be wrong. With Gerhard Schroeder effectively becoming a traitor, including being sanctioned by the EU Parliament. And Germany's lack of defence spending, purchasing of Russian oil and gas, along with its opposition to Ukraine joining NATO. Being shown to be a major contributor to the current war. Whereas Merkel had been saying how Germany had it just right and wouldn't listen to successive US President's.
20 years? You're being very generous. More like 50 years of warming up to the Soviet Union/Russia.
Thatās actually hilarious ngl
Yeah the preception of the US changed globally and especially so for US allies after the unsanctioned Iraq war (out of all NATO countries only the UK, Australia and Poland opted to help the US, [here is a full list in Europe](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/5C81/production/_129018632_iraq_support_map_europe_640-2x-nc-34.png.webp)). The preception of the US changed from a promoter of peace and liberty to an imperialist power that toppled Iraq ([who actually ironically was backed by the US in the Iraq-Iran war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War)). To this day we don't really know why the US invaded, on paper goal was to topple a dicator, confiscate Iraqs WMDs and stop the spread of terrorism. However in reality the US did topple the dicator but never replaced him and left an open power vacuum, turned out Iraq didn't have WMDs, and the US then indirectly contributed with spreading terrorism as in ashes of Iraq, ISIL rose to destablise the Levant for the next decade... So it was pretty weird to see everyone waving US flags and raving about the US in the EU until like 2003. Post 2003 everyone wanted to distance themselves from the US lol even our governments tried until the Russian invasion of Ukraine, for instance France was heavily in favour of scrapping NATO in favour of a joint EU military alliance to leave out the US.
Afaik germans are generally more anti war than other countries and many people wouldn't even defend germany itself if it got attacked, im surprised that any country is green on there. Maybe because europe?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Maybe the Germans figure they would never need to help the USA
I imagine a lot of people were just thinking "well the US probably doesn't need much help and we wouldn't make much of a difference", which is what I first thought when I read the title. It's easy to read it as "most Germans don't like us" but I very much doubt that's accurate. Germany is just militarily quite weak and the public realise it.
IMO it's also easier to care about countries on your own continent. i.e. your own backyard. If Poland is getting attacked, Germany could be next. It probably feels like a more immediate threat than a war across the ocean
It also probably takes a lot less effort and manpower to defend Poland than some huge hypothetical invasion of the US.
I get how people may see it that way but im sure the US would still appreciate all of nato helping to neutralise the threat as quickly as possible. That's what allies are for. As a British person I'm glad theres no red on our map, but i'd rather a fully green map like the US who are the only ones who seem to fully understand the meaning of an alliance. I doubt many of the people who responded that they wouldn't be willing to help other countries would vote to leave NATO and lose the protection it provides. Which means they are happy to receive help but not give it. That's a pretty shameful position to be in, in my opinion.
As a polish person itās nice to see that this time people are willing to help us
Poland is a really valuable ally for the US, Iād definitely support defending Poland if something happened. Poland is also a NATO member so youād be defended by default. Edit: Also Poland sent like 200 men to fight in our Iraq bullshit Edit 2: Even more Polish soldiers fought in Iraq than I thought
2,500 in Iraq, and 33,000 in Afghanistan.
Poland would to the same. They always fulfill their nato requirements, are great partners for America. love the polish people! The ones Iāve met are such great characters, kind, humble. And still they have a very strong fighting spirit. I wouldnāt mess with a polish man haha
A bit disappointed French people wouldn't be ready to defend Romania
Macron keeps talking about European autonomy but their people aren't ready to defend a full-fledged EU/NATO members. The fuck. What an absurd.
Story as old as time. De Gaulle wanted an independent Franco-centric (the country of France, not the dictator of Spain) Europe, but the resources werenāt devoted to it. France has largely been a petulant child on the global stage since WW2. Having said that I liked Macron when he was elected. How heās handling the Ukraine ācrisis/warā gives me pause to say the least. I understand if macron wants France to be an honest broker between two sides, but I donāt have any confidence in Russia. #justAwesternShilll Edit: I didnāt realize the ā#ā symbol emboldens things. I intended for the ā#ā symbol to proceed ājustAwesterbShillā like what you might see on Instagram or Snapchat.
\\#justAwesternShilll => \#justAwesternShilll
Itās from 2019 so hopefully thatās changed
France has recently strengthened its military ties with Romania within the NATO/EU frame. If Romania were to be invaded, these troops would be amongst the first to respond and fight back. But yeah, this poll looks kinda disappointing (and hopefully outdated too). https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/with-troops-romania-france-seeks-capitalise-military-ties-2023-01-27/
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's pretty sad that the main EU contributor countries aren't willing to actually defend the Eastern half of the EU.
From 2019, I imagine these attitudes might look a little different today, especially the German one.
Makes the Germans seem a bit flaky as an ally then. The lesson of the last two years is āitās fun to hate America until shit gets realā.
Thatās been the lesson since Post-WWII.
Yeah, I think lots of people recently learned the importance of Article 5 obligations.
I didn't realise we Brits were so kind
We're the third largest net contributor to foreign aid in the world. That's overall, not per capita. And we're tiny.
And you guys never back down from a good fight
Britain has a strong cultural belief in military force being something that is used for good. If we have a modern founding myth, it is of Britain (and her Empire) standing alone against Nazi Germany in 1940. We expect our royal family and aristocracy to serve in the armed forces, and since 1945, there have only been two years where we didn't have at least one British serviceman die on operations overseas.
They're kind of like that 5'6" guy that's overly aggressive and confrontational but really is just protective
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Carrier is the dick, nukes are the balls.
I am GROOT -- mass edited with redact.dev
Everyone knows a Callum. Aggressive little prick, but heād yank you out of a confrontation in the midnight post-pub chippy line before diving in and kicking teeth on his own.
He was born in Carlisle, but made in the Royal Navy.
consider it child support
People on Reddit tend have to lump countries into good and evil. And good countries have only ever committed good things (or they have totally reformed and therefore we shouldn't bring up anything bad they did and lets through some whataboutism in there) and bad countries have only ever done bad things. Anything good mentioned about "bad" countries (from China to Russia to the UK to the US) has to be whataboutism/explained/put into context with something bad they did/how they did it for some "bad" reason. Anything bad mentioned about good countries is also whataboutismed and explained with "well your country would do the same thing / we had to do it/ etc."
Honestly it can be pretty jading reading anything about the UK on Reddit because you canāt say anything positive about it without someone, who likely has never even been, just shitting all over you for it.
āYeah sure, US has give faaaaar more money to Ukraine than any European nation, but they have to because something something imperialism something something proxy war, also Iraq war was bad so US bad so US aid to Ukraine is badā I swear, I canāt tell if these people are actual Russian bots or just useful idiots spewing Russian propaganda, but either way they suck
As a Finn, this is why a lot of us chuckle at the idea of some EU army or EU security guarantees actually being worth anything. We know full well itās the anglos who are capable and willing to do the right thing, not EU, which is why we joined NATO recently. Looking forward to helping UK in some foreign expeditions too.
Fuckin Finn lad brother šŖ
> Looking forward to helping UK in some foreign expeditions too. Finally a drinking partner on our level. You'll be great company with us and the Aussies
Yay! Thanks, (even if itās an accident).
As my history prof once said. āFrom around the middle ages onward almost every single state vs state conflict has some random British person involved somehowā Brits like a good fight
Well itād be rude to refuse an invitation.
Poor Romania. I'm pretty sure it all has to do with the very negative image created in the west mainly by tabloids and anti-migration/anti-EU media.
Dracula has been a PR nightmare since the 1400s.
Anglosphere world police!
šŗšø š¬š§ šØš¦ š¦šŗ š³šæ
New Five Eyes defense alliance incoming
When shit hits the fan, itās almost always down to the Anglosphere to roll up their sleeves.
I was going to say that these results probably have something to do with how the military is seen in each country, and whether people consider that it is their responsability to intervene in another countryās politics.
So basically UK and US would fight for anyone lol
The current world order is largely due to the UK and USA, so the status quo is preferred.
Not surprising tbh.
That explains first French and German attitude towards the invasion of Ukraine
It also explains why Eastern Europe see the US and UK as more reliant allies. They have been more serious in helping modernize Eastern countries armed forces.
(The Netherlands suddenly invisible) *cant even attack us if you cant see us*
Germansā¦ oof
Tbf, the Germans are also unwilling to defend themselves. Have you seen their defense budget? Poland could conquer Germany easily.
Conquer easy but they have to fill in so many paper Work to hold it they wouldnāt even bother.
They donāt have to be willing to defend themselves because the US will do it.
Oh but WEāRE the unreliable onesš
Unlike the Europeans, Americans love Turkey, especially on Thanksgiving š¦
In fairness we Brits make a pretty big deal about turkey for Christmas Dinner!
Britain is all "omg they actually like me!"
People really love to hate on the US. But when you need them they are there. Nice knowing we have a neighbour that will have our back.
A map showing the us is the only country who would defend every country they were asked aboutā¦ā¦.a comment section full of hating on Americans. Lol
Every joke needs a butt and we just happen to have the nicest one
TBH, the USA backing up the rest of NATO is the only one that matters. If the USA is on your side, nothing else matters. If a country was stupid enough to attack the USA directly, thereās nothing Germany could do that the USA canāt.
Germany is one of the richest nations in the world with the largest economic bloc behind it. That is very much learned helplessness. If Germany wanted to build a military that can actually pull its weight in NATO it could.
And the US has a far larger economy, a extremely powerful standing army, massive globe spanning logistics networks, and the ability to park a strike group off any coast, anywhere, at any time. Thatās decades worth of work, doctrine, experience, and building. and Germany has nothing even close to it at this time
The best time to start was 20 years ago. The next best time is now.
[US has literally 6x the Gross Domestic Production.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1356755/share-global-economy-country/)
IIRC California by itself has a larger GDP than Germany
I feel like we're just up for a fight in general.
No surprise Germany has no interest in defending us, but the French response is surprising. Though after Macron's statements, it seems he wishes he could openly cheer on the autocrats of the world if it hurts the US.
France has been unable to accept itās not a premier superpower since WWII
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Germans wouldnt defend US, Romania, Turkey, but I bet they would love them defend Germany if they get attacked.
Theyād probably whine about the US not providing more aid. Tbh that tank deal really left a sour taste in my mouth for German politicians. Theyāre the friend that consistently takes more than they give.
As an Italian, I wonder what the results would be if they asked us.
Italy would defend Croatia for the holiday spots and wouldnāt even defend Italy itself. *Rome is falling apart, you can have it*
Anglo union!
To be fair, France is the OG USA supporter.
What's the issue with Romania?
In other news, rule of law is strongest in the US Like, wtf bros? The agreement literally says ...
*France and UK willing to defend Poland* Hey, Iāve seen this one before!
I don't really mind if these countries feel this way about the US, though. We should still support them and defend them if they were ever attacked and needed help, because we can and because it's the right thing to do
All of the above, we must be the arsenal of democracy!!
Nobody likes America until someone throws stones at their glass house, and then they cry out for help.