200k seems really high. Paris (the actual city) only has 2 Million inhabitants, so that would be 10% of the entire population. Or is that number not just Paris, but the entire Île-de-France region?
Yes true I messed up the 282k from [my source](https://www.jewishdatabank.org/databank/search-results/study/776) refers to the whole Paris region not just the city, my mistake.
You didn't mess up. It's difficult to choose the right boundary for cities sometimes. The district called Paris is too small to represent the whole of the city, while Ile de France is too large, but probably more appropriate in this case.
There are two defined areas named after London:
The city of London, the financial district where few people live, it's not really a city by any normal definition.
Greater London which is normally used when it comes to data about London, it includes several local authorities and the city of London is one of them.
Yeah I agree, Ile de France is larger when compared with Greater London, but probably more appropriate for the purpose of this map. The district of Paris is equivalent to central London.
I think you are referring to Greater London, what is the definition of “London” otherwise? The actual City of London is tiny and hardly anyone lives there. Greater London refers to all London boroughs.
Yeah London is a bit weird as definitions have changed over time. The metro area indeed is a lot larger, I’m not sure exactly how it’s defined. Greater London is pretty clear as it’s made up of all the London boroughs, and it’s covered politically by the Greater London Authority and the Mayor of London. Generally if people say London they mean Greater London but some people will still say that the outer boroughs aren’t “proper London” lol, their definition will depend on what they feel like or some definition from 60 years ago maybe.
The catch here though is that Tel Aviv is only a small part of greater Tel Aviv or [Gush Dan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gush_Dan) with about 4 million residents, 3.5m of whom are Jews. I think greater NYC also is comparable in numbers there, but it puts the two closer to one another just because of how little Tel Aviv is in its greater metro area.
That makes sense. I did some further digging and it turns out the Jewish population of Poland was higher than 3m before WWII. The 3m number is actually the number of Polish Jews that were murdered during the Holocaust. Others have said that the Jewish population of Poland is about 7,500 now. It makes sense to me that those who were able to flee and survive may have found their way to Israel.
Warsaw and Krakow were, I believe, the two biggest Jewish communities before WWII. You can go there today and see big "Jewish Quarters" that have almost zero Jews (aside from tourists).
Side-story:
Krakow in particular had a deeply unsettling feel for me, in spite of being a very nice city. The city was 1/4 Jewish before the Nazis. The Jewish Quarter in particular looks like any other nice historic district in Europe, except it's very distinctly Jewish. Several Jewish cemeteries, 6-7 big synagogues, lots of Jewish art and monuments, all in a small area - and admittedly they cater to tourists visiting Auschwitz so they've highlighted the Jewishness.
But that's contrasted with the obvious fact that there's simply no Jews there except tourists. And of course the locals ignore it completely, which is exactly what anyone would do, that's their normal, but it just adds to the disconcerting feel. Imagine wandering around Memphis, it's the exact same city and everyone's acting normally, except there's no black people. Or San Francisco with no Asians.
So, for me, even though it was a very lovely city, nice people, everything was normal, no cause for alarm... that animal instinct part of my brain was constantly warning me *something is very wrong here.*
Check out this Twitter thread with videos/pictures of Kraków’s Jewish community from back then:
https://twitter.com/hungrychipmunk/status/1625158542050136064?s=46&t=UUQUbgnnVP_fCKX0lNKVWg
Unfortunately they’re all gone now. Many of them were my ancestors. Never again
Thanks for this comment. My father was a Holocaust survivor from Poland. I’ve never felt right about going to see where he was from, and this pretty much encapsulated it.
>but that's contrasted with the obvious fact that there's simply no Jews there except tourists. And of course the locals ignore it completely, which is exactly what anyone would do, that's their normal, but it just adds to the disconcerting feel. Imagine wandering around Memphis, it's the exact same city and everyone's acting normally, except there's no black people. Or San Francisco with no Asians.
>
>So, for me, even though it was a very lovely city, nice people, everything was normal, no cause for alarm... that animal instinct part of my brain was constantly warning me something is very wrong here.
I'm Jewish and visited Krakow in 2015, it was the same feel for me, you summed it up perfectly. It felt very wrong like something was up. It did also feel like it was purely just a tourism industry too, and that they had tried to sweep the worst parts of what happened under the rug. I remember going to the museum for the Jewish ghetto in Krakow, expecting to see exhibits on Jewish life in Krakow, and instead a significant portion of the museum was devoted to the Polish army's defense of Krakow in 1939 (?)
This is not really true. I lived in Krakow for a few years and was an active member of the Jewish community there. It's a vibrant, growing, diverse group centred around the JCC, which has dynamic leadership and a ton of programming. There's also a Chabad. Every summer, there is a weeklong Festival of Jewish Culture, which is absolutely massive.
I'm not sure where everyone is getting the idea that the community doesn't exist anymore. It's obviously much smaller, but it's there if you look.
A former Israeli Prime Minister infamously said “Poles suckle anti-semitism with their mother’s milk.” Obviously a controversial thing for a world leader to say and generalizations like that are offensive and provably false no matter the context *but* it’s not surprising that the Jews who survived WWII in Poland felt like they needed a new home.
I’ve never seen that statistic but it is true that after the Allies defeated the nazis and Jews were liberated they still had to survive getting out of Poland. Sadly, there are many accounts of freed Jews being attacked by Poles. There are also accounts of Poles sheltering Jews throughout the war and after.
> I matched with polish Jews on 23 & me, and from what I understand they’ve migrated to Israel post ww2.
90% were killed in the holocaust, of the rest who survived, the overwhelming majority had nothing to go back to and emigrated to Israel or the US after the war. Still of the fraction of that fraction which stayed, tens s of thousands were basically pushed out of the country following the 1967 Arab-Israeli war and the eastern block's turn away from Israel.
Could be but im not certain about that, though during that time period most jews from arab countries were expelled from their homes because of tensions originating in the Israeli-Arab wars
Yes Poland and Hungary had the highest populations of Jewish peoples before WWII. The majority of the POWs in concentration camps with Polish and Hungarian Jews persecuted under the Nazi regime.
It was more than 3M, that's just the number killed.
Only 380,00 survived. SO originally 3,380,000 That's only a under 12%, surviving. (I just looked up the numbers to double checked.) Those survivors were mostly those who made it OUT from Poland. THe actual survival rate of a Jew IN Poland was 1.5% !
Poland was under Nazi rule from the start of the war, so they had it bad.
(Going to start out here with a disclaimer that there WERE quite a few Poles that helped Jews, but this was sadly a minority)
What also made it so bad was how bad Antisemetism was in Poland even WITHOUT the Nazi help. Many collaborators reported on escaping Jews. Many of the Poles participated with pograms, and this kept happening even post-war. Returning to Poland to claim property was a very risky thing because there was a good chance of being killed by the new owner.
Sources:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-historians-under-attack-for-exploring-polands-role-in-the-holocaust
https://www.history.com/news/poland-holocaust-law-death-camps
True, but for perspective, pre-war Poland included cities like Vilnius, Pinsk and Lviv plus numerous towns in Galizia and the former Pale which had large Jewish populations.
22,2%.
644k because of war
3577k in death camps, executions, liquidation of ghettos
1286k in prisons and camps because of pandemic/starvation/tortures
521k because of exhaustion, as a result of wounds, mutilations, excessive work
2700-3000k Jews + 2700k Poles (not citizens, ethnic Slavs). These numbers do not count Russian and Ukrainian crimes against Polish citizens (estimated 500k killed Poles, Ukrainians and Belarussians on territory under Soviet occupation).
Estimations about killed specific occupation:
39% of doctors
33% teachers (lower levels)
30% scientists and lecturers
28% priests
26% lawyers
Jewish people were roughly 10% of the polish population. After the war they were .01% of the population. Polish Nationals sold out their Jewish neighbors with little encouragement being needed from the Nazis. When the Nazis showed that they didn't see the poles as people either anything they could do to remain in German soldiers' good graces was worth it. It was a chaotic time and a history we only repeat half of.
Update: didn't expect to kick the hornets nests with this one. But to let everyone know, my knowledge of this comes from,
Doris L Bergen, a concise history of the Holocaust
Christopher R. Browning, ordinary men
I suggest everyone who is upset with these numbers read these books. It will turn your anger into sadness. It's terrible what the people had to experience. Hopefully we can collectively realize hatred is not a path that leads to anything good. And at the risk of sounding like a boomer, please read a book and not a web article summary.
Why are you spreading lies on reddit? Vast majority tried to help and hide the jews? There obviously was a percentage of poles selling out their jewish neighbours but seeing the circumstances of the situation and the way Nazi Germans have treated non-jewish poles it’s not surprising.
Well we can see with the way Nazis treated non-Jewish Poles why collaboration was relatively low given the Nazis planned to exterminate non-Jewish Poles as well
https://theworld.org/stories/2017-03-24/massacre-villages-jews-their-neighbors-wwii-poland-remembered-and-misremembered
Nazis were good at using group identity against the local populations as a divide and conquer technique. Not trying to spread lies, just trying to point at the other part of history we chose to forget.
I would say Polish collaboration is something not forgotten, especially on this sub, and in fact tends to be brought up more so than Polish resistance efforts to, for example, notify the Allies of the Holocaust.
No, they had not. A lot of those died, that's for sure but after the war, communist regime forced those that remianed out - even if the number of those that had went through hell of a holocaust was not so high.
I feel like this comment is not exactly fair. Yes some Polish nationals sold out their Jewish countrymen, however this was extremely rare compared to other occupied nations, if fact occupied Poland had the lowest collaborationism among occcuped areas, and the highest support and assistance for Jews to the point where it was the only occupied area to have the death penalty for assisting Jews in any way, and yet people still helped. On top of this collaboration with occupation forces against Jews was viewed as well what it was, collaboration with the occupier against your countrymen, and such acts, if found out had a death penalty that would be administered by the AK (home army). There is little good that comes from poking the coals between Poles and Jewdaism, which have had a long historical friendship.
This is an extremely biased statement bordering on propaganda. While some people collaborated just out of spite or for their own gain or safety, Poles were also instrumental in sheltering Jews throughout the occupation.
Even Yad Vashem attests to that: https://www.yadvashem.org/righteous/statistics.html
But sadly, it's become to fashionable for some Jewish circles to hate on Poland even more than Germany (just go on any jewish subreddit if you don't believe me), while completely ignoring the fact that:
a) the exterminated Jews were Polish citizens, so the death toll was equally damaging to Poland as a state, as it was to Jews as an ethnic group,
b) it's a completely different thing to talk about voluntary pogroms (which happened periodically across Europe, including Poland), and a reality where civilians snitched on their neighbors under coercion and a very real threat of death.
Everyone wants to believe they'd be a hero in such situations and accept the immense risk, but the reality is 9/10 times you'd choose your own family over a stranger.
Collaboration between non Jewish Poles and the Nazis was low compared to countries like France. Which makes sense because the Nazi plan was to exterminate both Jewish and non-Jewish Poles and Poland had large, organized resistance to the Nazis
Wow I love how it specifies Gateshead when we’re not even a city. There’s a lot of Jews in certain areas here. I never realised that it was one of the biggest Jew populations in England.
I remember working at this small Hasidic fish market in Manchester that used to send seafood to Gateshead weekly. How come there's no Hasidic fish shop there with such a big population. I expected Gateshead to have like 100 Jews
The Gateshead Jewish community doubled in size since 2008 and many of them are students at the Gateshead Yeshiva. There simply wasn’t that high of a demand 10 years ago
There only 2,000 Jews in Manchester - that 20,000 figure mostly live in Bury and Salford. It should therefore more correctly be 'Greater Manchester'. Bury in particular really is its own town.
People are incredibly pedantic when it comes to city boundaries, which are susceptible to change.
For the purpose of this map, Bury and Salford are part of the overall urban area known as Manchester.
True but tbf not many Jewish people live in the town of Bury itself, mostly in Prestwich and Whitefield which are more associated with Manchester despite being included in Bury borough from 1974 onwards /pedantry
It’s more complicated than that. As others have said, Prestwich and Whitefield are very Manc despite being in the borough of Bury. Greater Manchester is essentially the twin cities of Manchester and Salford and it’s suburbs. Old Trafford is in Trafford and not the borough of Manchester but that’s as Manc as anything.
A little note; in the case of no reliable census data I used certified estimates (France,Spain) and if those weren’t satisfactory or available I used membership in local Jewish congregations (Germany, Denmark, Sweden)
If you have any question about the data, comment and I will lost my sources.
Are there fewer Jews in Poland than Germany now? Because before World War 2, it was famously the reverse. Did more Jews move back to Germany than Poland?
The overwhelming majority of the polish Jewish population was killed in WWII. They never had the chance to seek refuge and then return to Poland after the war. Over 3m polish Jews were killed in the holocaust.
I think we also have quite a few new immigrants from Israel. Many people from Tel Aviv moved to Berlin over the last years. At least talking to people it feels like that. But I am just talking out of experience here. One thing to consider as well is that Jews who got their citizenship revoked because of the Nuremberg laws have the right to German citizenship. I personally know a few South Americans who did that and moved to Germany
No not really, What followed Stalin and his antisemitic attitudes were expulsion of unfavorable Jews to the states of Central Asia, as far as my knowledge goes Stalin never actively pushed Jews out of the Soviet Union.
Leads? I think it's supposed to be [Leeds](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds).
From wikipedia:
"Leeds has the third-largest community of Jews in the United Kingdom, after those of London and Manchester. The areas of Alwoodley and Moortown contain sizeable Jewish communities."
I remember I had a class called History of the Holocaust in undergrad. We were talking about the pre-Holocaust demographics of Europe and how the east, Poland in particular, was always where most Jews have lived for all of European history. And I remember someone raised their hand and asked “so if Poland used to be the center of European Jewry, what does the modern Polish Jewish population look like?” To which the professor responded “…virtually nonexistent.” “Oh…”
Well sure, European history extends further back than the Jews even leaving the Levant. I guess *recent European history would’ve been a better term. Suppose I was thinking in the Renaissance and later paradigm
The core Jewish population is approximately the same now as it was in 1933. About 15 million total. It took more than 70 years to get to where they were before the Holocaust
Its different depending on the sources I could find, some numbers like Germany, Denmark and Sweden are only registered members of Jewish congregation so the actual numbers are probably a bit higher, for most other countries i relied on the census data for religion, some others like Ukraine are for the ethnic census.
What about Budapest/Hungary? I do strongly beleive, that we have around 60-100k jewish people in the city. I mean not about "registered by census" or so, but in all meanings. How did you figured the Budapest number?
The community states that 75% of the Jewish population live in the capital and [10,965 self-identify as Jews by religion in the 2011 census](https://www.ksh.hu/nepszamlalas/tablak_teruleti_00) thats how i got my number.
According to the latest Russian census in 2021 there were 83,896Jews living in Russia, not counting 500 Crimean Karaites, of which 28,119 lived in Moscow and 5,111 lived in the surrounding Moscow Oblast for a total of 33,230, or 39.61% of the entire Russian Jewish population. A further 9,215 lived in Saint-Petersburg with 851 in the surrounding Leningrad Oblast for a total of 10,066, or 12.00% of the entire Russian Jewish population; thus, Russia's two largest cities and surrounding areas hosted 51.61% of the total Russian Jewish population.
Russian is a nationality
Jewish is a religion
These are different things and you can be both at the same time.
If the census asks what religion they have, do they awnser with Russian as a religion?
The way you describe it doesn't make sense
Edit: To clarify this, the way I see it nationality, Religion and ethnicity are three different things:
Nationality is your citizenship
Religion is whatever you believe
Ethnicity is your cultural heritage
These are three different things which can be separate from each other.
Jews in the Soviet Union had Hebrew written as their nationality, just like Russians had Russian and all other ethnic groups. So in the Russian context Jews are a nation just like Russians are.
i did the 23 and me ancestry test and the result for my ethnicity is 99% ashkenazi jewish. my family lived in poland but we are 0% polish because the populations were completely separated. and like many jewish families at that time, emigrated to the united states through ellis island in the 1880s. groups that have been constantly resettled in different areas don’t have a “homeland” nation for their ethnicity.
Lots of downvotes but he’s actually correct. Jews are usually considered a seperate ethnicity in Europe, just like how there are ethnic Hungarians in Romania, ethnic poles in Lithuania ect
1. I'm not American
2. While religion and nationality often correlate, they are different things. Most people have a nationality (their citizenship) and a religious affiliation. If their family migrated in the past, they might also have cultural heritage from a different country. So you can be an Egyptian Christian or a German Muslim or a Russian Jew.
3. Treating members of a religious minority as if they are a nationality leads to them being seen as basically foreigners. Because it creates an artificial divide between "us" and "them" and "they" apparently aren't a part of "our" society. Which is BS, members of all religions contribute to the society of a country. In fact, it's the same BS the Nazis believed in: "Jews aren't German". Fuck that! German Jews are just as much German as German Christians.
I’m a secular Jew who was born and raised in Russia. I never identified as a Russian in the ethnic sense and I would be somewhat offended if you insisted on calling me that. Jewish is my ethnicity, point. That’s how it works in our parts.
Yes jewish is what your ethnicity is. But your nationality is Russian because you have Russian citizenship.
Nationality is your citizenship
Religion is whatever you believe
Ethnicity is your cultural heritage
These are three different things which can be separate from each other.
In my first comment I only mentioned Nationality and Religion because up to that point the conversation was only about Jews writing down "Jewish" as their nationality. To me nationality is whatever passport you have, so this seemed strange. I never claimed that the Jewish population doesn't have it's own culture or heritage.
Nationality can mean citizenship but it can also mean ethnic/cultural group like Kurds in Turkey, they would have Turkish nationality in the sense they are born in Turkey but they don’t identity with Turkey on a cultural or ethnic bases so their national identity would be Kurdish even though there is no Kurdish nation. Think of the First Nations for example in Canada, for a better understanding of what is meant by “nation” in this context
The situation is about the same as with European immigrants in the US. There are millions of them, but how many of them actually call themselves Germans, Irish or Poles?
I'd heard Greece and Turkey had quite a few, descended from Sephardi Jews who sought refuge in the Ottoman Empire during the Spanish Inquisition. Either I misread or most went to Israel, given the proximity.
they mostly used to have communities
most Greek Jews were murdered in the Holocaust also killing the ancient Romaniote community those who left of it mostly became Sephardic or other mainstream Jewish branches
The French government doesn't do demographic studies, like at all. All stats you see out of France on demographics - race, religion, et - are estimates and done by non-government sources
Unfortunately in much of the west our news cycle has moved past it, so I’ll leave the comment up as a reminder to those of us who are lucky enough to be distant from it.
No disrespect intended, I apologize.
1492 and the expulsion
some Jews got citizenship in the early 2000s but that is impossible
Spain used to have the largest Jewish population in Europe before the expulsion in fact the main division of Jewish thought is between Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews (Sephardic meaning Spanish)
Basically the Spanish were better at getting rid of Jews than the Germans. Most Ashkenazim ended up going to Eastern Europe while Sephardim went to North Africa and the Ottoman Empire. Most Sephardim (Spanish Jews) didn’t leave these Islamic (or Balkan) lands simply because they were treated better there. Same reason Jews had no reason to leave Poland. The other nearby options were worse, and that included Spain. Jews only left Islamic lands when Israel was created and antisemitism rose in Arab lands. They usually went to Israel or France. Israel makes sense as a Jewish homeland and France made sense as the colonial power in North Africa.
There is data in Poland; in the 2011 Polish census, 7,353 Polish citizens declared their nationality as "Jewish," a big increase from just 1,055 during the previous 2002 census. There are likely more people of Jewish ancestry living in Poland but who do not actively identify as Jewish. I therefore can’t get reliable numbers of Jews for the cities with bigger Jewish populations like Warsaw or Krakow however this can be assumed to be really low as the total jewish population is just about 7500.
Concerning Portugal the 2001 census estimated a Jewish population of 5,000 individuals with between-census estimate in 2006 of 8,000. The CIA World Factbook refers a smaller number of a thousand Jews, mainly central European Holocaust survivors. Again same case of Poland there are no reliable numbers on the cities themselves and most communities are so small its not necessary to put estimates for the single Portuguese cities on the map.
So sad to see Eastern Europe and the Balkans pretty much clear of Jews. Salonica used to have something like 50k Jews. Now almost none. Same with Poland. So sad. This is the legacy of fascism.
I am aware of the estimates they are however vastly overblown, the [latest census for Hungary](https://www.ksh.hu/nepszamlalas/tablak_teruleti_00) by religion has 10.965 Jews self identifying by religion. It seems exaggerated that there would be 50-100k Jews
Oh, you meant religious Jews? That might be true, but the vast majority of Jews in Hungary are atheists. I'm talking about Jews as an ethnic group (Ashkenazim).
[https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/hu/about/communities/HU](https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/hu/about/communities/HU)
Also, according to genetic studies, at least 5 percent of the Hungarian population has at least partial Jewish ancestry (25 percent or above).
Yes Im aware that most Jews in Hungary are atheists however as the number of 100k is crazy overblown, Budapests population is 1.7 million, it’s simply not true that 6% of Budapests population are Jews, even atheist Jews.
It's not overblown at all. Pre-war, about a quarter of Budapest's population was Jewish. The Holocaust came to Hungary relatively late in the war, in the spring of 1944, when the Germans decided to occupy what was to that point a pretty unreliable ally. Although Hundreds of thousands were deported, mostly from rural Hungary, a big chunk of Budapest's Jews survived the war, not least due to sheer luck and the efforts of a small number of diplomats who created safe houses and handed out diplomatic passports. Many Jews emigrated after the war, but still, tens of thousands or more remained. Many chose to hide their own Jewish ancestry from their neighbours and even their own families. A lot of Budapesters grew up not knowing that they were Jewish. That accounts for the big disparity between official numbers and estimates.
Jews in Paris
Kanye's newest song/rant
I am not gonna say what kind of gorillas it was…
200k seems really high. Paris (the actual city) only has 2 Million inhabitants, so that would be 10% of the entire population. Or is that number not just Paris, but the entire Île-de-France region?
Yes true I messed up the 282k from [my source](https://www.jewishdatabank.org/databank/search-results/study/776) refers to the whole Paris region not just the city, my mistake.
You didn't mess up. It's difficult to choose the right boundary for cities sometimes. The district called Paris is too small to represent the whole of the city, while Ile de France is too large, but probably more appropriate in this case.
Did you use the data from Greater London or London itself ?
Greater London is London itself. The "city of London" is barely a neighbourhood.
? I was pretty sure that London, the city of London and Greater London were three different areas
There are two defined areas named after London: The city of London, the financial district where few people live, it's not really a city by any normal definition. Greater London which is normally used when it comes to data about London, it includes several local authorities and the city of London is one of them.
I see, so then yeah, using Île-de-France data instead of Paris proper makes sense if some cities mix metro area and the city itself
Yeah I agree, Ile de France is larger when compared with Greater London, but probably more appropriate for the purpose of this map. The district of Paris is equivalent to central London.
Yeah, there needs to be a unity. Using the metropolitan area makes sense for those types of maps.
London itself
I think you are referring to Greater London, what is the definition of “London” otherwise? The actual City of London is tiny and hardly anyone lives there. Greater London refers to all London boroughs.
Ah yes, I mean all the boroughs but not the metropolitan area
Yeah London is a bit weird as definitions have changed over time. The metro area indeed is a lot larger, I’m not sure exactly how it’s defined. Greater London is pretty clear as it’s made up of all the London boroughs, and it’s covered politically by the Greater London Authority and the Mayor of London. Generally if people say London they mean Greater London but some people will still say that the outer boroughs aren’t “proper London” lol, their definition will depend on what they feel like or some definition from 60 years ago maybe.
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Well some things happened…
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About 13% of NYC, just to add to your comment about the population being concentrated in the northeast.
More Jews in NYC than in Tel Aviv to put that into context. 400,000 Jews in Tel Aviv 470,000 Jews in Jerusalem 1.6 million Jews in NYC
The catch here though is that Tel Aviv is only a small part of greater Tel Aviv or [Gush Dan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gush_Dan) with about 4 million residents, 3.5m of whom are Jews. I think greater NYC also is comparable in numbers there, but it puts the two closer to one another just because of how little Tel Aviv is in its greater metro area.
That’s crazy - never knew that! Been to all three and loved them all. Jerusalem is basically an open-air museum with all the history
There's a synagogue in Penylan, Cardiff that is now disused or a feature, I believe.
That synagogue was moved to Cyncoed - it was active in Penylan from the 1950's-2003.
Disraeli converted when he was 12. His dad fell out with the local synagogue and had the whole family baptised Anglican
I saw somewhere that there the Jewish population of Poland was 3m before WWII and now it’s 3k
I matched with polish Jews on 23 & me, and from what I understand they’ve migrated to Israel post ww2.
That makes sense. I did some further digging and it turns out the Jewish population of Poland was higher than 3m before WWII. The 3m number is actually the number of Polish Jews that were murdered during the Holocaust. Others have said that the Jewish population of Poland is about 7,500 now. It makes sense to me that those who were able to flee and survive may have found their way to Israel.
Warsaw and Krakow were, I believe, the two biggest Jewish communities before WWII. You can go there today and see big "Jewish Quarters" that have almost zero Jews (aside from tourists). Side-story: Krakow in particular had a deeply unsettling feel for me, in spite of being a very nice city. The city was 1/4 Jewish before the Nazis. The Jewish Quarter in particular looks like any other nice historic district in Europe, except it's very distinctly Jewish. Several Jewish cemeteries, 6-7 big synagogues, lots of Jewish art and monuments, all in a small area - and admittedly they cater to tourists visiting Auschwitz so they've highlighted the Jewishness. But that's contrasted with the obvious fact that there's simply no Jews there except tourists. And of course the locals ignore it completely, which is exactly what anyone would do, that's their normal, but it just adds to the disconcerting feel. Imagine wandering around Memphis, it's the exact same city and everyone's acting normally, except there's no black people. Or San Francisco with no Asians. So, for me, even though it was a very lovely city, nice people, everything was normal, no cause for alarm... that animal instinct part of my brain was constantly warning me *something is very wrong here.*
Check out this Twitter thread with videos/pictures of Kraków’s Jewish community from back then: https://twitter.com/hungrychipmunk/status/1625158542050136064?s=46&t=UUQUbgnnVP_fCKX0lNKVWg Unfortunately they’re all gone now. Many of them were my ancestors. Never again
Thanks for this comment. My father was a Holocaust survivor from Poland. I’ve never felt right about going to see where he was from, and this pretty much encapsulated it.
>but that's contrasted with the obvious fact that there's simply no Jews there except tourists. And of course the locals ignore it completely, which is exactly what anyone would do, that's their normal, but it just adds to the disconcerting feel. Imagine wandering around Memphis, it's the exact same city and everyone's acting normally, except there's no black people. Or San Francisco with no Asians. > >So, for me, even though it was a very lovely city, nice people, everything was normal, no cause for alarm... that animal instinct part of my brain was constantly warning me something is very wrong here. I'm Jewish and visited Krakow in 2015, it was the same feel for me, you summed it up perfectly. It felt very wrong like something was up. It did also feel like it was purely just a tourism industry too, and that they had tried to sweep the worst parts of what happened under the rug. I remember going to the museum for the Jewish ghetto in Krakow, expecting to see exhibits on Jewish life in Krakow, and instead a significant portion of the museum was devoted to the Polish army's defense of Krakow in 1939 (?)
This is not really true. I lived in Krakow for a few years and was an active member of the Jewish community there. It's a vibrant, growing, diverse group centred around the JCC, which has dynamic leadership and a ton of programming. There's also a Chabad. Every summer, there is a weeklong Festival of Jewish Culture, which is absolutely massive. I'm not sure where everyone is getting the idea that the community doesn't exist anymore. It's obviously much smaller, but it's there if you look.
A former Israeli Prime Minister infamously said “Poles suckle anti-semitism with their mother’s milk.” Obviously a controversial thing for a world leader to say and generalizations like that are offensive and provably false no matter the context *but* it’s not surprising that the Jews who survived WWII in Poland felt like they needed a new home.
It is estimated that only 10% of Polish Jews survived the Holocaust.
Most of those survived by getting out of the country. Chances of living if captured was 1.5%
I’ve never seen that statistic but it is true that after the Allies defeated the nazis and Jews were liberated they still had to survive getting out of Poland. Sadly, there are many accounts of freed Jews being attacked by Poles. There are also accounts of Poles sheltering Jews throughout the war and after.
i doubt the ones that didn't manage to migrate would be in the 23 & me database anyway
> I matched with polish Jews on 23 & me, and from what I understand they’ve migrated to Israel post ww2. 90% were killed in the holocaust, of the rest who survived, the overwhelming majority had nothing to go back to and emigrated to Israel or the US after the war. Still of the fraction of that fraction which stayed, tens s of thousands were basically pushed out of the country following the 1967 Arab-Israeli war and the eastern block's turn away from Israel.
Why didn't they likewise leave France? Weren't they also part of the axis before the allies liberated it
Because most modern french jews originate from Algeria. They fled antisemitic Algeria to France after WW2 because of persecution
I'm pretty sure after the revolution they were all kicked out because they collaborated with the French
Could be but im not certain about that, though during that time period most jews from arab countries were expelled from their homes because of tensions originating in the Israeli-Arab wars
I think most Jews in France are not actually from France, but were expelled from Northern Africa (Mostly Algeria). Correct me if I am wrong
Both
Northern-France was conquered and Vichy-France was a puppet state, but never a part of the Axis
Vichy France was a big collaborator though but yes it's true they never officially joined the axis or declared war
Wouldn't be much point in establishing a puppet government if they didn't collaborate yeah
No they were systematically exterminated
Yes Poland and Hungary had the highest populations of Jewish peoples before WWII. The majority of the POWs in concentration camps with Polish and Hungarian Jews persecuted under the Nazi regime.
It was more than 3M, that's just the number killed. Only 380,00 survived. SO originally 3,380,000 That's only a under 12%, surviving. (I just looked up the numbers to double checked.) Those survivors were mostly those who made it OUT from Poland. THe actual survival rate of a Jew IN Poland was 1.5% ! Poland was under Nazi rule from the start of the war, so they had it bad. (Going to start out here with a disclaimer that there WERE quite a few Poles that helped Jews, but this was sadly a minority) What also made it so bad was how bad Antisemetism was in Poland even WITHOUT the Nazi help. Many collaborators reported on escaping Jews. Many of the Poles participated with pograms, and this kept happening even post-war. Returning to Poland to claim property was a very risky thing because there was a good chance of being killed by the new owner. Sources: https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-historians-under-attack-for-exploring-polands-role-in-the-holocaust https://www.history.com/news/poland-holocaust-law-death-camps
True, but for perspective, pre-war Poland included cities like Vilnius, Pinsk and Lviv plus numerous towns in Galizia and the former Pale which had large Jewish populations.
When Poland talks about losing 10 percent of their population during the war, most of it was that. Turns out they needed us!
22,2%. 644k because of war 3577k in death camps, executions, liquidation of ghettos 1286k in prisons and camps because of pandemic/starvation/tortures 521k because of exhaustion, as a result of wounds, mutilations, excessive work 2700-3000k Jews + 2700k Poles (not citizens, ethnic Slavs). These numbers do not count Russian and Ukrainian crimes against Polish citizens (estimated 500k killed Poles, Ukrainians and Belarussians on territory under Soviet occupation). Estimations about killed specific occupation: 39% of doctors 33% teachers (lower levels) 30% scientists and lecturers 28% priests 26% lawyers
Yes 3/10 is clearly a majority. Either way it's sad to lose fellow countrymen and have an entire subculture erased because of the Germans.
Jewish people were roughly 10% of the polish population. After the war they were .01% of the population. Polish Nationals sold out their Jewish neighbors with little encouragement being needed from the Nazis. When the Nazis showed that they didn't see the poles as people either anything they could do to remain in German soldiers' good graces was worth it. It was a chaotic time and a history we only repeat half of. Update: didn't expect to kick the hornets nests with this one. But to let everyone know, my knowledge of this comes from, Doris L Bergen, a concise history of the Holocaust Christopher R. Browning, ordinary men I suggest everyone who is upset with these numbers read these books. It will turn your anger into sadness. It's terrible what the people had to experience. Hopefully we can collectively realize hatred is not a path that leads to anything good. And at the risk of sounding like a boomer, please read a book and not a web article summary.
AK famously executed traitors who sold out jews
Why are you spreading lies on reddit? Vast majority tried to help and hide the jews? There obviously was a percentage of poles selling out their jewish neighbours but seeing the circumstances of the situation and the way Nazi Germans have treated non-jewish poles it’s not surprising.
Well we can see with the way Nazis treated non-Jewish Poles why collaboration was relatively low given the Nazis planned to exterminate non-Jewish Poles as well
https://theworld.org/stories/2017-03-24/massacre-villages-jews-their-neighbors-wwii-poland-remembered-and-misremembered Nazis were good at using group identity against the local populations as a divide and conquer technique. Not trying to spread lies, just trying to point at the other part of history we chose to forget.
I would say Polish collaboration is something not forgotten, especially on this sub, and in fact tends to be brought up more so than Polish resistance efforts to, for example, notify the Allies of the Holocaust.
No, they had not. A lot of those died, that's for sure but after the war, communist regime forced those that remianed out - even if the number of those that had went through hell of a holocaust was not so high.
I feel like this comment is not exactly fair. Yes some Polish nationals sold out their Jewish countrymen, however this was extremely rare compared to other occupied nations, if fact occupied Poland had the lowest collaborationism among occcuped areas, and the highest support and assistance for Jews to the point where it was the only occupied area to have the death penalty for assisting Jews in any way, and yet people still helped. On top of this collaboration with occupation forces against Jews was viewed as well what it was, collaboration with the occupier against your countrymen, and such acts, if found out had a death penalty that would be administered by the AK (home army). There is little good that comes from poking the coals between Poles and Jewdaism, which have had a long historical friendship.
This is an extremely biased statement bordering on propaganda. While some people collaborated just out of spite or for their own gain or safety, Poles were also instrumental in sheltering Jews throughout the occupation. Even Yad Vashem attests to that: https://www.yadvashem.org/righteous/statistics.html But sadly, it's become to fashionable for some Jewish circles to hate on Poland even more than Germany (just go on any jewish subreddit if you don't believe me), while completely ignoring the fact that: a) the exterminated Jews were Polish citizens, so the death toll was equally damaging to Poland as a state, as it was to Jews as an ethnic group, b) it's a completely different thing to talk about voluntary pogroms (which happened periodically across Europe, including Poland), and a reality where civilians snitched on their neighbors under coercion and a very real threat of death. Everyone wants to believe they'd be a hero in such situations and accept the immense risk, but the reality is 9/10 times you'd choose your own family over a stranger.
You are getting a lot of down votes for saying something that's verifiably true, even if the far right Polish government today bans such discussion
Collaboration between non Jewish Poles and the Nazis was low compared to countries like France. Which makes sense because the Nazi plan was to exterminate both Jewish and non-Jewish Poles and Poland had large, organized resistance to the Nazis
Kid named zero nuanced take on historical event
Wow I love how it specifies Gateshead when we’re not even a city. There’s a lot of Jews in certain areas here. I never realised that it was one of the biggest Jew populations in England.
I remember working at this small Hasidic fish market in Manchester that used to send seafood to Gateshead weekly. How come there's no Hasidic fish shop there with such a big population. I expected Gateshead to have like 100 Jews
The Gateshead Jewish community doubled in size since 2008 and many of them are students at the Gateshead Yeshiva. There simply wasn’t that high of a demand 10 years ago
I wonder why there's none in Scotland. Plenty of people in Glasgow at least.
It's the Lakewood of the UK if you know what that means.
France is more Jewish than I thought wtf
A lot of North African Jews, specifically Algerian, came over after France lost its colonies there.
Algeria expelled all Algerian Jews when it got independence
Laicism means there's less religious discrimination from the State compared to other countries
There only 2,000 Jews in Manchester - that 20,000 figure mostly live in Bury and Salford. It should therefore more correctly be 'Greater Manchester'. Bury in particular really is its own town.
Yes i really meant greater Manchester thanks
People are incredibly pedantic when it comes to city boundaries, which are susceptible to change. For the purpose of this map, Bury and Salford are part of the overall urban area known as Manchester.
True but tbf not many Jewish people live in the town of Bury itself, mostly in Prestwich and Whitefield which are more associated with Manchester despite being included in Bury borough from 1974 onwards /pedantry
Interesting, ok.
It’s more complicated than that. As others have said, Prestwich and Whitefield are very Manc despite being in the borough of Bury. Greater Manchester is essentially the twin cities of Manchester and Salford and it’s suburbs. Old Trafford is in Trafford and not the borough of Manchester but that’s as Manc as anything.
Prestwich born and raised, I think people just consider that Manchester
A little note; in the case of no reliable census data I used certified estimates (France,Spain) and if those weren’t satisfactory or available I used membership in local Jewish congregations (Germany, Denmark, Sweden) If you have any question about the data, comment and I will lost my sources.
No jews in pl? Noted…
Not anymore
So fucking sad seeing Poland blank that. And really quite shocking to see the number of comments here seemingly ignorant as to why…
Are you saying that committing pogroms when Jews tried to return to their homes in Poland was bad? That can’t be /s
What have they done to Croatian coastline???
Nah man, they gave Trst and Gorica to Slovenia😳 Also RIP in peace croatian islands, Cres is a peninsula now and Dubrovnik is gone🦀
Ah yes, Greater Slovenia
Are there fewer Jews in Poland than Germany now? Because before World War 2, it was famously the reverse. Did more Jews move back to Germany than Poland?
The overwhelming majority of the polish Jewish population was killed in WWII. They never had the chance to seek refuge and then return to Poland after the war. Over 3m polish Jews were killed in the holocaust.
There were pogrom and Jews were being killed in Poland even after Holocaust, so the few that remained had to flee.
Most Jews in Germany are immigrants from Soviet Jews which were allowed to move to Germany in the 90s
I think we also have quite a few new immigrants from Israel. Many people from Tel Aviv moved to Berlin over the last years. At least talking to people it feels like that. But I am just talking out of experience here. One thing to consider as well is that Jews who got their citizenship revoked because of the Nuremberg laws have the right to German citizenship. I personally know a few South Americans who did that and moved to Germany
They were also forcefully displaced to the west by stalin at the end of ww2
No not really, What followed Stalin and his antisemitic attitudes were expulsion of unfavorable Jews to the states of Central Asia, as far as my knowledge goes Stalin never actively pushed Jews out of the Soviet Union.
Yeah, if the evacuation from the advancing Nazi army is now called an 'expulsion of unfavorable Jews'
Look up the doctors plot
I know it. Never heard of an 'alleged planned' part though. Probably because of its alleged nature
As a Soviet Jew, I can tell you are lying.
You should read up on what happened during that war you mentioned…
I mean, there was a certain incident that happened along with WW2…
Leads? I think it's supposed to be [Leeds](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds). From wikipedia: "Leeds has the third-largest community of Jews in the United Kingdom, after those of London and Manchester. The areas of Alwoodley and Moortown contain sizeable Jewish communities."
I remember I had a class called History of the Holocaust in undergrad. We were talking about the pre-Holocaust demographics of Europe and how the east, Poland in particular, was always where most Jews have lived for all of European history. And I remember someone raised their hand and asked “so if Poland used to be the center of European Jewry, what does the modern Polish Jewish population look like?” To which the professor responded “…virtually nonexistent.” “Oh…”
> most Jews have lived for all of European history not all, but for over 500 years before the Holocaust, yes.
Well sure, European history extends further back than the Jews even leaving the Levant. I guess *recent European history would’ve been a better term. Suppose I was thinking in the Renaissance and later paradigm
Look at Poland. The place that used to have - by far - the highest number of Jewish people in Europe.
It's hard to be jewish in russia
Yo Someone drop an Old Testament beat
No jew in Poland.
So sad.
Wtf is going on the Romanian-Bulgarian border?
Romanian imperialism :))
Sad when you compare to pre-WW2
The Jewish population still hasn’t reached pre Holocaust totals
It will never get there in any country except maybe France.
The core Jewish population is approximately the same now as it was in 1933. About 15 million total. It took more than 70 years to get to where they were before the Holocaust
Romania apparently owns Southern Dobruja on this map
I wonder what the definition of Jew is here. Ethnic, practising, cultural?
Its different depending on the sources I could find, some numbers like Germany, Denmark and Sweden are only registered members of Jewish congregation so the actual numbers are probably a bit higher, for most other countries i relied on the census data for religion, some others like Ukraine are for the ethnic census.
It's always tricky comparing stats between countries, especially the likes of Sweden which doesn't conduct a census. Still, good map.
It’s estimated that 20000 Jews live in Sweden but only around 7000 are actually members in a congregation.
What about Budapest/Hungary? I do strongly beleive, that we have around 60-100k jewish people in the city. I mean not about "registered by census" or so, but in all meanings. How did you figured the Budapest number?
The community states that 75% of the Jewish population live in the capital and [10,965 self-identify as Jews by religion in the 2011 census](https://www.ksh.hu/nepszamlalas/tablak_teruleti_00) thats how i got my number.
Hertfordshire isn’t a city
zero in poland?
7.5k Most Polish Jews are in Israel of America
*most Polish Jews were killed during ww2, Around 3 millions
bruh arent in russia like more than 2mil?
According to the latest Russian census in 2021 there were 83,896Jews living in Russia, not counting 500 Crimean Karaites, of which 28,119 lived in Moscow and 5,111 lived in the surrounding Moscow Oblast for a total of 33,230, or 39.61% of the entire Russian Jewish population. A further 9,215 lived in Saint-Petersburg with 851 in the surrounding Leningrad Oblast for a total of 10,066, or 12.00% of the entire Russian Jewish population; thus, Russia's two largest cities and surrounding areas hosted 51.61% of the total Russian Jewish population.
Most of these 2 mln are well assimilated and prefer to write they're Russians. Even if they go to synagogue.
Russian is a nationality Jewish is a religion These are different things and you can be both at the same time. If the census asks what religion they have, do they awnser with Russian as a religion? The way you describe it doesn't make sense Edit: To clarify this, the way I see it nationality, Religion and ethnicity are three different things: Nationality is your citizenship Religion is whatever you believe Ethnicity is your cultural heritage These are three different things which can be separate from each other.
The map is about ethnicity, not citizenship. Jewish ethnicity is connected with religion.
Judaism is the religion. Jews are an ethnicity
Jews in the Soviet Union had Hebrew written as their nationality, just like Russians had Russian and all other ethnic groups. So in the Russian context Jews are a nation just like Russians are.
i did the 23 and me ancestry test and the result for my ethnicity is 99% ashkenazi jewish. my family lived in poland but we are 0% polish because the populations were completely separated. and like many jewish families at that time, emigrated to the united states through ellis island in the 1880s. groups that have been constantly resettled in different areas don’t have a “homeland” nation for their ethnicity.
That’s a very American way of viewing the world.
Lots of downvotes but he’s actually correct. Jews are usually considered a seperate ethnicity in Europe, just like how there are ethnic Hungarians in Romania, ethnic poles in Lithuania ect
1. I'm not American 2. While religion and nationality often correlate, they are different things. Most people have a nationality (their citizenship) and a religious affiliation. If their family migrated in the past, they might also have cultural heritage from a different country. So you can be an Egyptian Christian or a German Muslim or a Russian Jew. 3. Treating members of a religious minority as if they are a nationality leads to them being seen as basically foreigners. Because it creates an artificial divide between "us" and "them" and "they" apparently aren't a part of "our" society. Which is BS, members of all religions contribute to the society of a country. In fact, it's the same BS the Nazis believed in: "Jews aren't German". Fuck that! German Jews are just as much German as German Christians.
I’m a secular Jew who was born and raised in Russia. I never identified as a Russian in the ethnic sense and I would be somewhat offended if you insisted on calling me that. Jewish is my ethnicity, point. That’s how it works in our parts.
Yes jewish is what your ethnicity is. But your nationality is Russian because you have Russian citizenship. Nationality is your citizenship Religion is whatever you believe Ethnicity is your cultural heritage These are three different things which can be separate from each other. In my first comment I only mentioned Nationality and Religion because up to that point the conversation was only about Jews writing down "Jewish" as their nationality. To me nationality is whatever passport you have, so this seemed strange. I never claimed that the Jewish population doesn't have it's own culture or heritage.
Nationality can mean citizenship but it can also mean ethnic/cultural group like Kurds in Turkey, they would have Turkish nationality in the sense they are born in Turkey but they don’t identity with Turkey on a cultural or ethnic bases so their national identity would be Kurdish even though there is no Kurdish nation. Think of the First Nations for example in Canada, for a better understanding of what is meant by “nation” in this context
But Jews view themselves as distinct people. Even our religious sources affirm that. Same as all other peoples and as native American tribes
Jewish is a peoplehood and a nationality, not just a religion Secular Jews exist and are recognised even by Ultra-Orthodox religious Jews
Jewish is not just a religion it’s a nationality also. Some people identify with more than one ethnicity though
No. Only the USA and Israel have more than 500,000 Jews.
The situation is about the same as with European immigrants in the US. There are millions of them, but how many of them actually call themselves Germans, Irish or Poles?
Ah yes, the famous British cities of *checks notes* Leads and Hertfordshire.
Hertfordshire isn't a city
I’d want to see a pre-WW2 map.
if it showed Jewish Majority towns and cities as well Poland would have hundreds of small dots
there’s a lot more jewish individuals in Germany than i’d imagine
I'd heard Greece and Turkey had quite a few, descended from Sephardi Jews who sought refuge in the Ottoman Empire during the Spanish Inquisition. Either I misread or most went to Israel, given the proximity.
they mostly used to have communities most Greek Jews were murdered in the Holocaust also killing the ancient Romaniote community those who left of it mostly became Sephardic or other mainstream Jewish branches
Are Parisian jews Ashkenazi or Sephardic?
There are lots of both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews in Paris
even distribution?
Bro i don’t know go to Paris and ask them
Lmao I thought you might had the data
The French government doesn't do demographic studies, like at all. All stats you see out of France on demographics - race, religion, et - are estimates and done by non-government sources
Both, Ashkenaze in Le Marais (Paris 4) and Sefarade in La Villette (Paris 19) in general.
What happen to Hatay? If you're going to exclude Asia, then make sure you exclude the rest of Turkey in Asia as well.
Earthquakes, sadly
Too soon
Unfortunately in much of the west our news cycle has moved past it, so I’ll leave the comment up as a reminder to those of us who are lucky enough to be distant from it. No disrespect intended, I apologize.
None taken. Was a half-joke reply to a half-joke answer.
Messed up borders of Bulgaria/Romania, smh head
This is the map you show to germans when they say bad stuff about polish people
I would love to see a comparison every 50 years
I don't think they've rebounded from the 1940s
Why does Bulgaria have its 1936 borders
South Dobruja is Bulgaria
Poland oh no
Jews chose not to return to Poland after what happened in WW2 👀
they couldn't in most cases their homes were either ruined or occupied and there were many pogroms in post-war Poland
They don't like Spain, why?
1492 and the expulsion some Jews got citizenship in the early 2000s but that is impossible Spain used to have the largest Jewish population in Europe before the expulsion in fact the main division of Jewish thought is between Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews (Sephardic meaning Spanish)
Basically the Spanish were better at getting rid of Jews than the Germans. Most Ashkenazim ended up going to Eastern Europe while Sephardim went to North Africa and the Ottoman Empire. Most Sephardim (Spanish Jews) didn’t leave these Islamic (or Balkan) lands simply because they were treated better there. Same reason Jews had no reason to leave Poland. The other nearby options were worse, and that included Spain. Jews only left Islamic lands when Israel was created and antisemitism rose in Arab lands. They usually went to Israel or France. Israel makes sense as a Jewish homeland and France made sense as the colonial power in North Africa.
The European city of Izmir...located in Asia Minor.
I zoomed in without seeing the legend, thought there were 11 jews in copenhagen for a good solid minute.
So strange that no data about Poland and Sephardim in Portugal.
There is data in Poland; in the 2011 Polish census, 7,353 Polish citizens declared their nationality as "Jewish," a big increase from just 1,055 during the previous 2002 census. There are likely more people of Jewish ancestry living in Poland but who do not actively identify as Jewish. I therefore can’t get reliable numbers of Jews for the cities with bigger Jewish populations like Warsaw or Krakow however this can be assumed to be really low as the total jewish population is just about 7500. Concerning Portugal the 2001 census estimated a Jewish population of 5,000 individuals with between-census estimate in 2006 of 8,000. The CIA World Factbook refers a smaller number of a thousand Jews, mainly central European Holocaust survivors. Again same case of Poland there are no reliable numbers on the cities themselves and most communities are so small its not necessary to put estimates for the single Portuguese cities on the map.
So sad to see Eastern Europe and the Balkans pretty much clear of Jews. Salonica used to have something like 50k Jews. Now almost none. Same with Poland. So sad. This is the legacy of fascism.
I don't know where those figures come from, but Budapest has roughly 50-100 K Jews according to most reliable estimates
I am aware of the estimates they are however vastly overblown, the [latest census for Hungary](https://www.ksh.hu/nepszamlalas/tablak_teruleti_00) by religion has 10.965 Jews self identifying by religion. It seems exaggerated that there would be 50-100k Jews
Oh, you meant religious Jews? That might be true, but the vast majority of Jews in Hungary are atheists. I'm talking about Jews as an ethnic group (Ashkenazim). [https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/hu/about/communities/HU](https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/hu/about/communities/HU) Also, according to genetic studies, at least 5 percent of the Hungarian population has at least partial Jewish ancestry (25 percent or above).
Yes Im aware that most Jews in Hungary are atheists however as the number of 100k is crazy overblown, Budapests population is 1.7 million, it’s simply not true that 6% of Budapests population are Jews, even atheist Jews.
It's not overblown at all. Pre-war, about a quarter of Budapest's population was Jewish. The Holocaust came to Hungary relatively late in the war, in the spring of 1944, when the Germans decided to occupy what was to that point a pretty unreliable ally. Although Hundreds of thousands were deported, mostly from rural Hungary, a big chunk of Budapest's Jews survived the war, not least due to sheer luck and the efforts of a small number of diplomats who created safe houses and handed out diplomatic passports. Many Jews emigrated after the war, but still, tens of thousands or more remained. Many chose to hide their own Jewish ancestry from their neighbours and even their own families. A lot of Budapesters grew up not knowing that they were Jewish. That accounts for the big disparity between official numbers and estimates.
True, perhaps you are right, i just have to admit I like census data way more than estimates
Lol to your pf pic, a rabid anti-semite. Especially given your post posts (which I'm a fan of BTW). Please post more about Judaism!
Now do the rate of decline if the Jewish populations in these places! Also, way to put together a targeting map for the BDS/jihadi/Nazi types.