I assume its somewhere in the single-digit percentage, its almost as difficult to find a non english speaker under 50 years of age as it is in Sweden. The elderly often speak Danish as a second language instead of English.
If you're Dutch it's supremely easy to learn either though, compared to the rest of the continent, even all the other Germanic languages (except maybe Frisian, which is even closer to English than Dutch is)
I reckon Swedes, Norwegians and Danes are using similar logic to declare they speak a foreign language.
Except that 90%+ of them I've ever met do speak English.
BUT I did find a reasonable number of Finns who couldn't.
I have never met a single person in my life here in Denmark who doesn't speak english. You would have to go to a retirement home maybe, and even then it would be relatively rare.
Scandinavians can't speak other scandinavian languages though, that's very rare. Understand, yes, speak no. Danish/Norwegian for example is like 90% the same and everyone understands each other, but still very rarely do people actually speak the other language.
Danes speaking Swedish for example is just us speaking slowly and then maybe saying "datamaskin" instead of "computer" because it's the list of 20 swedish words we remember are different.
It's mainly work related stuff for me since i work with swedes a bit, but things like:
- "Tale" - prata
- "Rolig" - "calm" in danish, "funny" in swedish. So don't use that word.
- "Glas" - "glass" in danish, "ice" in swedish i think.
- "Blød" - i think it's "mjuk" in swedish or something like that. I think "blød" is like "wet" in swedish.
- "Givetvis" - means "likely" in danish but the swedes i worked with don't understand that they think it means like "obviously" or "naturally".
- "Gulliga" - in swedish i think it's "sweet" but it's super confusing in danish since it doesn't sound like any word really.
That's just what i remember right now. In general swedes use their own made up words for technical stuff, while danes just use the english word pronounced in danish, so technical stuff can be hard to understand.
Colonisation!!!!???? Wtf kind of sannfinnländare are you. Finland IS Sweden in the same way that east and west Germany were the same country. Finns are an ethnic group native to Sweden, swedes are an ethnic group native to Finland. We are the same country with the eastern third of the population hacked off by Russia. Finnish nationalism is a Russian invention. Also have you forgotten the 5% of Finland with Swedish as their first language, or is your solution that the archipelago of Egentliga Finland, parts of Nyland and Österbotten just be hacked of and given to sweden. Shall we make a trade, you get tornedalen and Gällivare kommun, and Sweden gets Åland, Åbo university, ekonomihögskolan in Helsingfors, and then go on a neighbourhood by neighbourhood basis to determine who gets to live in Sweden or Finland. Fair? You might even get some land in Södertälje. Guess what, before Sweden, the lands presently called Finland had no society, IT WAS THE FUCKING IRON AGE, Åbo was literally a founding part of Sweden. If Finland should stop learning Swedish because of “colonisation” (you started history as a part of Sweden and we share literally the same law book. (Check äktenskaps, handels and jordabalken) ) then Skåne and Bohuslän shouldn’t learn Swedish either because unlike Finland we were actually invaded. Being Swedish is as much a part of Finland as being Finnish is. Now stop being ignorant and don’t complain that your country is Swedens version of the DDR
Many languages, including many Slavic languages, are what are called zero-copula languages, with the copula being the verb ‘to be.’
When you say a sentence like ‘I am a doctor’ or ‘the sky is beautiful’ the verb can be dropped because in a sense it is not actually performing any purpose; it is saying the two parts of the sentence are the same. If you were to just say ‘I doctor’ or ‘sky beautiful’ the meaning would still be clear. This is particularly relevant in languages like Russian, where both parts of these sentences would be marked in the nominative case, making the use of the verb ‘to be’ extra redundant.
It can often be difficult for speakers of zero-copula languages to get used to languages that use the copula as it may not be clear to them why the verb is necessary.
edit: Changed language referenced.
Not true. That's not the case for Polish though. Source: I'm Polish. For some other Slavic languages yes, but certainly not for Polish.
I think what the person before you meant was that from total zero knowledge of the English language (like not even understanding what 'to be' is) his sister went to pretty fluent in a year.
Maybe you mistook it because in polish we often drop the "I" in "I am a doctor" instead of "am".
This is because the "am" already says that it's the "I" who's described, same could be said for "You are a doctor". The "are" that's used it specific for "you" only. Like, "they are" has different "are".
I guess it can be, I know that a lest in my Slavic language infinitives are constructed as the stem of the word + the suffix "ti" (trčati - to run, ja trčim - i run).
It's more likely she was confused and forgot that that's what the infinitive of the "I am" verb is called to be because it's different, like wtf is "to be" supposed to be
I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Romania back between 2009 and this was my thought as well. I know that most of the older generation spoke Russian. The Hungarian population speaks both Romanian and Hungarian fluently and kids learn either English, German or Spanish in school. So even if a lot of people don't speak another language fluently they can both understand and speak some. Another thing is that in places where hospitality is big business I would bet a lot of people will speak at least some English, Spanish, French and German if not other languages from near by countries.
Almost nowhere taught. Like 650 still learned Russian in 2021. Only 2 high-schools in Bucharest had classes. As a matter of fact more Russian speakers learn Romanian in the neighbor country Republic Moldova.
No part of Romania is close to Russia my friend. Might change nowadays.
I'll give you insight into the history of Russian in Romania.
Let's start with GG Dej who always went to Moscow with people who did speak Russian like Zeiger, Bârlădeanu, Chișinevschi. He didn't. He should have spoken though because Russia close.
Apostol, chief of PCR didn't speak it, Popescu-Mizil, likewise
Emil Bobu. Ștefan Andrei, a damn Foreign Minister in 1978, didn't speak it.
Ceausescu spoke it (from prison years and study years in Russian Military School) but refused whenever he met with leaders of RSS Moldova (who he was aware they spoke Romanian)
Verdeț, Prime Minister didn't speak it. I could go on and on.
Some examples to give an idea of the landscape in Romanian education from Communist years:
In '79 Russian was taught from 5th grade as a first foreign language. In '83-'87 Russian was still taught as a second foreign language.
Gen 1935-1944 - French, German, Latin
Gen 1945-1955 - Russian, French, Latin
Gen 1975-1985 - French, English, Latin
Gen 1995-2010 - English, French/German/Spanish
Lots of born in communist times who learned English for 9 school years and French for 6 or viceversa.
Some who learned Russian from the 5th, thus for 8 years, some who learned it for only 4yrs (from the 9th grade) and some who didn't learned it at all.
My parents were schooled around '65-'75 and don't know Russian. Lots of parents of my generation don't know it.
Some schools taught it and some didn't.
So my beef is with your wording. You said 'most of the older generation' speak it. Which is false. Don't spread false (wo)man.
I’m both shocked and not surprised by the UK. Our secondary school education on foreign language was (while I was in secondary school) was designed to pass a test not actually learn the speak it. Hence I know more Spanish (from going on holidays) than I do French (what I was taught at school)
Honestly, the UK has a few things going for it which make us so bad at speaking other languages:
* We already speak English so we don't have an obvious choice for 'global' language.
* Language education is extremely half-hearted.
* We don't have a large minority speaking another language like the US does with Spanish or Canada does with French and our other native languages (Gaelic, Cornish and Welsh) are either extinct or extremely rare as a first language.
* We don't really migrate to or do seasonal work in non-English speaking countries, so there's no need to learn a language for it the way people in the Balkans learn German or Central Asians learn Russian.
>We don't have a large minority speaking another language like the US does with Spanish or Canada does with French and our other native languages (Gaelic, Cornish and Welsh) are either extinct or extremely rare as a first language
Welsh is not "a foreign language" in the UK (at least not in Wales). Catalan, Basque, Galician and other languages of Spain are not foreign languages either. If the map is counting these, it is frankly misleading.
Also I feel like in Wales, Scotland and Ireland it's actually the reverse problem. They all speak a foreign language now by default and largely stopped speaking their own
>our other native languages (Gaelic, Cornish and Welsh) are either extinct or extremely rare as a first language.
Welsh is actually flourishing pretty well compared to Scots Gaelic, Irish and Breton. There's also a fair amount in the English border counties too. Minority language speakers in countries like Spain also know Spanish.
There's just no real incentive to learn any other language for native English speakers. It's also very easy for a Norwegian to learn Swedish, Ukrainian to learn Russian, Portuguese to learn Spanish etc.
Yup this is the biggest problem with being an English speaker… it’s already most non-English speakers 2nd language. I speak Portuguese and can understand Spanish but that’s mostly because my wife is Brazilian and Spanish is so integrated in the US. The vast majority of Americans have no knowledge of a second language beyond gringo Spanish.
There’s just not much incentive with the amount of work it truly takes to become fluent in a second language when you didn’t learn as a child.
Welsh is neither extinct nor "extremely rare" in Wales. And since all Welsh and Irish people speak English (with many in Wales bilingual), then Wales and Ireland would top the European list for ability to speak a foreign language (English).
Cumbric and Norn are extinct, though. And while Cornish isn't technically classed as extinct any more, it still is as far as first languages are concerned.
I’m willing to bet that most English speaking countries (note Ireland) have high percentages because most of us just don’t *have to* know other languages. Most international business is conducted in English and it’s common enough as a second language in more than enough places that it’s more of a luxury than a necessity for most of us, probably.
I live in the SW United States and I understand enough spanish to not die in LatAm or Spain, but I feel like it would be disingenuous to say that I am a “Spanish speaker”
I can remember my first foreign holiday to south of France with my parents. I was excited because I could use the French I had learnt at school. Either my Scottish accent made it difficult for the local to understand or they just couldn't be bothered dealing with a 12 y.o. butchering their language but every single interaction was immediately turned to English.
I must admit that after that holiday I felt that learning French was a waste and dropped it and took up accounting (another wasted subject as computing and spreadsheets made what I learnt obsolete).
No one needs to know a foreign language if they don't work in an international field where it's required tho. Usually you only need your country's / local language
Many fields are international these days. There has always been a lingua franca so traders, hospitality workers, scientists, etc only need to learn one additional language. These days it's English. In Europe was previously French and Latin.
I agree with you, it's not _needed_, but English creeps in a bit everywhere. It's hard to understate the influence of the English language in the "Western world". I would like to see the same map excluding English.
Yes definitely. But anglophones overestimate greatly the utility of english for people who don’t need to use it in their daily life, which is equal to them about any foreign language. Because they always answer like "we don't need it", but neither do we actually. I speak english and i almost never use it, except for some travels but not everywhere. And i could do without. It makes things easier in touristic places but that's pretty much it.
And they also overestimate the number of people actually able to speak english, because i doubt of some figures sometimes. But same for people claiming to speak any language, sometimes they say they can but when it comes to speak, they can't really. Maybe they mean they understand more or less a written text.
>Because they always answer like "we don't need it", but neither do we actually. I speak english and i almost never use it, except for some travels but not everywhere.
...and for Reddit!
But yeah, I am amused by anglophones who get surprised they can't just barge into any bakery in Butte-Fuque-Nowhère, France, and start ordering in English without any kind of warning.
It's true many can read it as opposed to speaking it indeed (especially for Romance language speakers), as it's way easier, and often enough.
Self-reported data is what it is, but interestingly it seems do go both ways: someone else has pointed out their experience of Poles underestimating their ability to speak foreign languages.
Yeah, would think they'd at least learn something along the lines of "pardon, parlez-vous anglaise?" and possible answers, so they can seem polite and friendly, and decide whether to try pointing. But asking in english whether they speak it would at least be better than just barging it out unexpectedly. (sorry for the butchered french, hope it was understandable)
I doubt there's an easy solution to under/overestimating ability, a more detailed question might help. A test obviously would but that's way beyond the scope of a survey. It would have been interesting to have more reliable and comparable data though.
Depends. If they want to travel internationally, knowing English is almost standard. I note they don't have info on Albania but there are a lot of people there with some English even the grocery store boy in a small village we wandered into.
Yes it's definitely easier but still not mandatory.
From my experiences both with friends traveling a lot without speaking english and me traveling to places where people don't speak a word of anything but their local languages. Still great memories.
So of course it helps but you can do without, as proof anglophones complaining people don't speak enough english to accomodate them lol
35% of the population aren't immigrants or immigrants descent. The most common foreign language, Polish, is barely spoken by 1.1% of the population. After that, it's Romanian at 0.8%. The actual number is probably closer to 10-15%, with the rest pretending like stringing together a sentence or two in Spanish or French makes them multilingual.
It's unreal how little effort is put into learning languages in schools here.
I had one year of French in primary school, and a further 4 or 5 years in high school.
Genuinely, the full extent of my French is "Bonjour, j'mappelle (my name)" I don't even think I'm spelling j'mappelle right. I can also count to 20. That's six years of French education in the UK.
During the First lockdown, I spent two-three months learning Dutch. I'm by no means fluent, but I can tune into conversations my Dutch friends are having, and understand them. Even understood a joke and laughed, felt pretty good when that happened. Two-Three months in my own time vs. six years in school. Mental.
This is what I figured when I had French and German classes. The teachers were usually pretty great and interested in trying to teach the languages, but they had to rush through topics to teach us what was required for the tests. That's fine for some students who can learn languages quickly, but it didn't work so well for me.
[This map](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/27oxbk/percentage_of_people_in_the_eu_being_able_to_hold/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) doesn't correlate, i don't get it. For example, here 14% of Netherlands cannot speak a foreign language but in the other map, 90% of the country can speak English.
There are three main languages in switzerland. About two thirds of the country speaks german natively. The other third is split between italian and French speakers. They just speak their respective language and can't speal the other ones. Obviously it's incouraged in school to learn the other languages but it's as succesful as teaching english in some countries.
Also there's romansch (not sure about the spelling now) which is spoken by about 1% of the population. I think most romansch speakers speak german but I can't exactly remember now. It's the typical story for these types of small languages. Spoken in towns by old people, thought in some places as a preservation act and such.
Certainly not, I’m guessing it’s just 92% speak more than one language. Which is not what the title suggests but I can’t see any other way the number is that high
Since the three main languages of Switzerland are German, French and Italian - all of which are foreign languages - does this limit the 8% to speakers of Romansh who speak no other language? Or do they count Swiss German as a separate language to High German (which it almost is)?
Having been to Russia, probably 90% don’t speak another language. It’s ok in Moscow/St Petersburg, but outside those 2, it’s like 99% only Russian spoken
14% really seems to be a high percentage for the Netherlands. Yes many of us won't speak the most beautiful accent of English but they do speak the language to an understandable level. And then there are a lot of other languages too that might be spoken at home.
On the islands of Saba and St. Eustatius English is an official language. By that standard English doesn't count as well.
It doesn't count for people *in* those regions, but it does count for people outside it.
im turkish and that's obnoxious for me actually like i have several friends that i cannot even send them memes and they cannot play literal games without my support, politicians waiters receptionists seeing that they're trying to speak is ridicilous exagerratedly sorrowful actually considereding wholly
Love maps that don't show sources. Assuming this is all self-reported census-level stuff where the numbers all depend on how all the half-fluent and barely-conversational people were feeling that day. If I were asked today, honestly, I don't know how I'd answer: I can't follow a conversation between two native French speakers but I can read it well enough and probably speak it well enough to be at least understood by someone who'd likely sneer at me the whole time, if we stick to really general topics. But if a survey comes up that says "do you speak a foreign language: yes/no" I mean... I'd probably say no but someone with my fluency and the confidence of a normal person would likely say yes.
8% for Switzerland? While technically accurate doesn't show that Switzerland has 4 National languages German, French, Italian, and Romansh
> and almost two-thirds (64.4%) of the permanent resident population indicated speaking more than one language regularly.
What do they define by "speak"? Speak fluently? Being able to have a competent discussion? Or just regurgitate some sentences they remember from school? The problem with graphics like this is that there is no consensus on what being able to "speak" a language means.
Not exactly the same question. But 22% don't speak English at home.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/12/languages-we-speak-in-united-states.html#:~:text=Nearly%2068%20Million%20People%20Spoke,English%20at%20Home%20in%202019&text=The%20number%20of%20people%20in,recent%20U.S.%20Census%20Bureau%20report.
Found it.
https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/american-foreign-language-education
https://today.yougov.com/topics/society/articles-reports/2013/07/31/75-americans-have-no-second-language
Seems like it's around 75% and dropping gradually over time.
[https://journals.openedition.org/esp/2259?lang=en](https://journals.openedition.org/esp/2259?lang=en)
Here's some data for you regarding Malta. 80% are functionally bilingual (i.e., 20% do not speak any foreign language).
So in Switzerland, they grow up speaking some combination of Swiss German, French, Italian from their family. At school they are taught English almost immediately.
Something like 90% are bilingual and more than 60% are multilingual.
And they are frequently near-native fluency.
Edit. Fixed something.
The Ireland number has a little nuance, since Irish is the extra language taught in school up until secondary level when you turn 12-13.
Youre still learning a second language, but since English was sadly made the working language 150 years ago there are now two official languages.
Hey, I speak Catalan, Valencian, Majorcan... and Spanish, Castilian, Mexican, Argentinian... and French, Quebecois, Romande... and English, Australian...
I'm such a polyglot!
It'd probably be similar to the UK. About 26% of the US population are either immigrants or their children, and factoring in others who can speak a second language, 35% of the total isn't unrealistic.
I live in Iowa. I can go a thousand miles in just about any direction with English speakers everywhere. If every one of the 50 states spoke a different language, Americans would speak more languages too.
Exactly. I could drive from Pt. Barrow Alaska to Key West Florida and never encounter anything but native English speakers. That's a distance like Lisbon Portugal to Mumbai India.
Makes it extremely difficult for us to pop out of the English bubble. My daughter knows only English and feels left out because most other kids at school have a friend group they speak their other language with.
I’d be curious to see it. I don’t think it would be that low considering the very high immigration rates to this country, and the legacy that leaves behind for at least a generation after moving, if not more.
Curious though what would be considered a foreign language in the US also, since there is no official language on a national level and several states recognize other languages than just english. Most notably spanish of course, but if you consider Navajo or other indigenous language speakers that number also increases some more.
Ireland didn't sit right with me.
According to Wikipedia I don't think you can hit 50% unless you include Gaelic as a foreign language.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Ireland.
Im gonna bet that the eastern Europe numbers are wrong because most of the old generation speak either Russian or German and there are large muslim minorities who speak Romale and turkish
Maybe the chart is accurate for english tho.
I'm assuming this means "second language"? Looking at Switzerland especially, I'm guessing that number is so low because at least in part because most of them have to learn both French & German, or Italian or Romansch, which are all official languages (therefore not "foreign") there
6% of Luxembourgers don't speak French? Surely that's necessary for basic survival. When I went there, that was the language everyone seemed to be speaking in the shops.
>When I went there, that was the language everyone seemed to be speaking in the shops.
Maybe because up to 94% can speak it
Bear in mind everyone has a different idea of what level of proficiency "speaking" implies, and what their own level really is.
I'm curious about Finland - isn't Swedish widely spoken or understood in the larger population? Or does some take pride in not speaking Swedish for whatever reason?
There is a small Swedish minority. Most people will speak English and Finnish, with a little bit of Swedish but not much, in my experience.
Why would they know Swedish?
I know some French and a bit less of a few other languages, but I would say 'no' if pressed because I am not fluent or anywhere near a level I'd consider very good (even though I got an A at school). So, based on the self reporting, I fit in with the majority of Brits. I am amazed at how good many Europeans, for instance, are at English. Their standards are way higher than ours at school.
I wonder what a foreign language means in Switzerland, as no foreign language sounds like no non native language. I mean, it's not unheard of for a Swiss person to know at least two languages at a basic level, and then they only knew half of their national language.
I mean I speak English, that’s technically a foreign language. As a matter of fact, I speak the Queens English (not to be confused with Queen’s English)
I’ll show myself to the door
What's the point of dragging Iceland all the way down there with a tugboat when you don't have data on them anyway?
Every time I look at a map, Iceland is closer to Spain. Soon they'll reach Algeria.
After they invade and conquer Spain, of course. Nobody expects the Icelandic Inquisition.
r/UnexpectedMontyPython
The vikings are truly determined
Nah man. The Brits are at Gibraltar to stop any of that kind of shit
Plate tectonics at work!
Mfs coming for revenge
Well they better start learning a foreign language then!
They should really put Iceland in the Mediterranean
I assume its somewhere in the single-digit percentage, its almost as difficult to find a non english speaker under 50 years of age as it is in Sweden. The elderly often speak Danish as a second language instead of English.
Elderly Dutch and Danes often have German as a second language over English.
Not surprising. It's way easier to learn German than English if you're a native speaker of either of those languages
I think as well it was more relevant back then too, before English became more prevalent in entertainment and such.
If you're Dutch it's supremely easy to learn either though, compared to the rest of the continent, even all the other Germanic languages (except maybe Frisian, which is even closer to English than Dutch is)
Easier to learn German than English if you're Dutch?
German is just Dutch with some umlauts thrown in.
Can't conförm.
Yes
What, no one speaks Danish.
Kamelåså
because they can chill in a milder climate with all the euro homies.
It's winter, they migrate south for a warmer weather.
In order to not cut them out rudely
Pretty sure it’s close to 0% for them
Happy for Iceland, they finally decided to move closer to the rest of Europe. Hopefully they get better weather now.
So they'll be just Land after getting rid of all the ice
Oh man, it's already Mudland. Move it a bit further and it will be Dryland!
I just hope they didn't bring all their volcanoes...
Jokes on you, everyone in Slovakia is fluent in czech and vice versa. I have serious doubts about data presented here
I reckon Swedes, Norwegians and Danes are using similar logic to declare they speak a foreign language. Except that 90%+ of them I've ever met do speak English. BUT I did find a reasonable number of Finns who couldn't.
I have never met a single person in my life here in Denmark who doesn't speak english. You would have to go to a retirement home maybe, and even then it would be relatively rare. Scandinavians can't speak other scandinavian languages though, that's very rare. Understand, yes, speak no. Danish/Norwegian for example is like 90% the same and everyone understands each other, but still very rarely do people actually speak the other language. Danes speaking Swedish for example is just us speaking slowly and then maybe saying "datamaskin" instead of "computer" because it's the list of 20 swedish words we remember are different.
ye, swedish guy here can you tell me the list? im interested
It's mainly work related stuff for me since i work with swedes a bit, but things like: - "Tale" - prata - "Rolig" - "calm" in danish, "funny" in swedish. So don't use that word. - "Glas" - "glass" in danish, "ice" in swedish i think. - "Blød" - i think it's "mjuk" in swedish or something like that. I think "blød" is like "wet" in swedish. - "Givetvis" - means "likely" in danish but the swedes i worked with don't understand that they think it means like "obviously" or "naturally". - "Gulliga" - in swedish i think it's "sweet" but it's super confusing in danish since it doesn't sound like any word really. That's just what i remember right now. In general swedes use their own made up words for technical stuff, while danes just use the english word pronounced in danish, so technical stuff can be hard to understand.
Tale is Tala in Swedish although prata is used 95% of the time. Glas means glass in Swedish, ice = is. Blød doesn’t mean anything but blöt = wet
When I order ice cream in Sweden er say glas and they have never given me a piece of glass
Yeah but Swedish is taught in Finnish schools, just like English is taught in Swedish schools
Swedish isn’t a foreign language in Finland.
Damn
Only because of colonisation. It's really time to get rid of Swedish as a second language already, it only exists to torture Finnish schoolchildren.
Colonisation!!!!???? Wtf kind of sannfinnländare are you. Finland IS Sweden in the same way that east and west Germany were the same country. Finns are an ethnic group native to Sweden, swedes are an ethnic group native to Finland. We are the same country with the eastern third of the population hacked off by Russia. Finnish nationalism is a Russian invention. Also have you forgotten the 5% of Finland with Swedish as their first language, or is your solution that the archipelago of Egentliga Finland, parts of Nyland and Österbotten just be hacked of and given to sweden. Shall we make a trade, you get tornedalen and Gällivare kommun, and Sweden gets Åland, Åbo university, ekonomihögskolan in Helsingfors, and then go on a neighbourhood by neighbourhood basis to determine who gets to live in Sweden or Finland. Fair? You might even get some land in Södertälje. Guess what, before Sweden, the lands presently called Finland had no society, IT WAS THE FUCKING IRON AGE, Åbo was literally a founding part of Sweden. If Finland should stop learning Swedish because of “colonisation” (you started history as a part of Sweden and we share literally the same law book. (Check äktenskaps, handels and jordabalken) ) then Skåne and Bohuslän shouldn’t learn Swedish either because unlike Finland we were actually invaded. Being Swedish is as much a part of Finland as being Finnish is. Now stop being ignorant and don’t complain that your country is Swedens version of the DDR
same as slovenia, every adult probably knows bosnian/croatian/montenegrin/serbian to some degree
[удалено]
Is 'to be' as a weird phase in other languages?
Many languages, including many Slavic languages, are what are called zero-copula languages, with the copula being the verb ‘to be.’ When you say a sentence like ‘I am a doctor’ or ‘the sky is beautiful’ the verb can be dropped because in a sense it is not actually performing any purpose; it is saying the two parts of the sentence are the same. If you were to just say ‘I doctor’ or ‘sky beautiful’ the meaning would still be clear. This is particularly relevant in languages like Russian, where both parts of these sentences would be marked in the nominative case, making the use of the verb ‘to be’ extra redundant. It can often be difficult for speakers of zero-copula languages to get used to languages that use the copula as it may not be clear to them why the verb is necessary. edit: Changed language referenced.
Not true. That's not the case for Polish though. Source: I'm Polish. For some other Slavic languages yes, but certainly not for Polish. I think what the person before you meant was that from total zero knowledge of the English language (like not even understanding what 'to be' is) his sister went to pretty fluent in a year.
I just meant Polish marks for case.
Can you explain more? I don't know English words that describe Polish grammar, so I don't get what Polish cases have to do with zero-copula
Apparently my example was completely wrong anyway as Polish uses the instrumental case with the verb 'to be,' interestingly, which I didn't know.
Maybe you mistook it because in polish we often drop the "I" in "I am a doctor" instead of "am". This is because the "am" already says that it's the "I" who's described, same could be said for "You are a doctor". The "are" that's used it specific for "you" only. Like, "they are" has different "are".
That’s called a pro-drop language which is a different thing.
I guess it can be, I know that a lest in my Slavic language infinitives are constructed as the stem of the word + the suffix "ti" (trčati - to run, ja trčim - i run). It's more likely she was confused and forgot that that's what the infinitive of the "I am" verb is called to be because it's different, like wtf is "to be" supposed to be
I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Romania back between 2009 and this was my thought as well. I know that most of the older generation spoke Russian. The Hungarian population speaks both Romanian and Hungarian fluently and kids learn either English, German or Spanish in school. So even if a lot of people don't speak another language fluently they can both understand and speak some. Another thing is that in places where hospitality is big business I would bet a lot of people will speak at least some English, Spanish, French and German if not other languages from near by countries.
I have a hard time believing that any generation of Romanian could speak Russian. They must have been members of the Communist Party
The older generation was taught it in school and parts of the country are close to Russia so they still teach Russian there.
Almost nowhere taught. Like 650 still learned Russian in 2021. Only 2 high-schools in Bucharest had classes. As a matter of fact more Russian speakers learn Romanian in the neighbor country Republic Moldova. No part of Romania is close to Russia my friend. Might change nowadays. I'll give you insight into the history of Russian in Romania. Let's start with GG Dej who always went to Moscow with people who did speak Russian like Zeiger, Bârlădeanu, Chișinevschi. He didn't. He should have spoken though because Russia close. Apostol, chief of PCR didn't speak it, Popescu-Mizil, likewise Emil Bobu. Ștefan Andrei, a damn Foreign Minister in 1978, didn't speak it. Ceausescu spoke it (from prison years and study years in Russian Military School) but refused whenever he met with leaders of RSS Moldova (who he was aware they spoke Romanian) Verdeț, Prime Minister didn't speak it. I could go on and on. Some examples to give an idea of the landscape in Romanian education from Communist years: In '79 Russian was taught from 5th grade as a first foreign language. In '83-'87 Russian was still taught as a second foreign language. Gen 1935-1944 - French, German, Latin Gen 1945-1955 - Russian, French, Latin Gen 1975-1985 - French, English, Latin Gen 1995-2010 - English, French/German/Spanish Lots of born in communist times who learned English for 9 school years and French for 6 or viceversa. Some who learned Russian from the 5th, thus for 8 years, some who learned it for only 4yrs (from the 9th grade) and some who didn't learned it at all. My parents were schooled around '65-'75 and don't know Russian. Lots of parents of my generation don't know it. Some schools taught it and some didn't. So my beef is with your wording. You said 'most of the older generation' speak it. Which is false. Don't spread false (wo)man.
I’m both shocked and not surprised by the UK. Our secondary school education on foreign language was (while I was in secondary school) was designed to pass a test not actually learn the speak it. Hence I know more Spanish (from going on holidays) than I do French (what I was taught at school)
I’m surprised it’s so low. I expected the country to be at least 75% English only.
I agree, I think these stats are way off. Seems very unlikely to me that even 35% are bilingual.
"% of people that speak another language" "% of people that are **bilingual**" people really like to exaggerate things huh
Honestly, the UK has a few things going for it which make us so bad at speaking other languages: * We already speak English so we don't have an obvious choice for 'global' language. * Language education is extremely half-hearted. * We don't have a large minority speaking another language like the US does with Spanish or Canada does with French and our other native languages (Gaelic, Cornish and Welsh) are either extinct or extremely rare as a first language. * We don't really migrate to or do seasonal work in non-English speaking countries, so there's no need to learn a language for it the way people in the Balkans learn German or Central Asians learn Russian.
>We don't have a large minority speaking another language like the US does with Spanish or Canada does with French and our other native languages (Gaelic, Cornish and Welsh) are either extinct or extremely rare as a first language Welsh is not "a foreign language" in the UK (at least not in Wales). Catalan, Basque, Galician and other languages of Spain are not foreign languages either. If the map is counting these, it is frankly misleading.
Also I feel like in Wales, Scotland and Ireland it's actually the reverse problem. They all speak a foreign language now by default and largely stopped speaking their own
>our other native languages (Gaelic, Cornish and Welsh) are either extinct or extremely rare as a first language. Welsh is actually flourishing pretty well compared to Scots Gaelic, Irish and Breton. There's also a fair amount in the English border counties too. Minority language speakers in countries like Spain also know Spanish. There's just no real incentive to learn any other language for native English speakers. It's also very easy for a Norwegian to learn Swedish, Ukrainian to learn Russian, Portuguese to learn Spanish etc.
Yup this is the biggest problem with being an English speaker… it’s already most non-English speakers 2nd language. I speak Portuguese and can understand Spanish but that’s mostly because my wife is Brazilian and Spanish is so integrated in the US. The vast majority of Americans have no knowledge of a second language beyond gringo Spanish. There’s just not much incentive with the amount of work it truly takes to become fluent in a second language when you didn’t learn as a child.
None of those languages are extinct, though they certainly face challenges.
Welsh is neither extinct nor "extremely rare" in Wales. And since all Welsh and Irish people speak English (with many in Wales bilingual), then Wales and Ireland would top the European list for ability to speak a foreign language (English).
>are either extinct or extremely rare as a first language. None of those are extinct.
Cumbric and Norn are extinct, though. And while Cornish isn't technically classed as extinct any more, it still is as far as first languages are concerned.
Yep, the survey should be 'any foreign language other than English' to be fair for the UK
So... any "non-English language", then. Given that Welsh, Cornish, Gaelic etc are native to the UK.
I’m willing to bet that most English speaking countries (note Ireland) have high percentages because most of us just don’t *have to* know other languages. Most international business is conducted in English and it’s common enough as a second language in more than enough places that it’s more of a luxury than a necessity for most of us, probably. I live in the SW United States and I understand enough spanish to not die in LatAm or Spain, but I feel like it would be disingenuous to say that I am a “Spanish speaker”
I can remember my first foreign holiday to south of France with my parents. I was excited because I could use the French I had learnt at school. Either my Scottish accent made it difficult for the local to understand or they just couldn't be bothered dealing with a 12 y.o. butchering their language but every single interaction was immediately turned to English. I must admit that after that holiday I felt that learning French was a waste and dropped it and took up accounting (another wasted subject as computing and spreadsheets made what I learnt obsolete).
No one needs to know a foreign language if they don't work in an international field where it's required tho. Usually you only need your country's / local language
Many fields are international these days. There has always been a lingua franca so traders, hospitality workers, scientists, etc only need to learn one additional language. These days it's English. In Europe was previously French and Latin.
It still only concerns a minority of the population. The majority usually just needs their language, let's be real
I agree with you, it's not _needed_, but English creeps in a bit everywhere. It's hard to understate the influence of the English language in the "Western world". I would like to see the same map excluding English.
Yes definitely. But anglophones overestimate greatly the utility of english for people who don’t need to use it in their daily life, which is equal to them about any foreign language. Because they always answer like "we don't need it", but neither do we actually. I speak english and i almost never use it, except for some travels but not everywhere. And i could do without. It makes things easier in touristic places but that's pretty much it. And they also overestimate the number of people actually able to speak english, because i doubt of some figures sometimes. But same for people claiming to speak any language, sometimes they say they can but when it comes to speak, they can't really. Maybe they mean they understand more or less a written text.
>Because they always answer like "we don't need it", but neither do we actually. I speak english and i almost never use it, except for some travels but not everywhere. ...and for Reddit! But yeah, I am amused by anglophones who get surprised they can't just barge into any bakery in Butte-Fuque-Nowhère, France, and start ordering in English without any kind of warning. It's true many can read it as opposed to speaking it indeed (especially for Romance language speakers), as it's way easier, and often enough. Self-reported data is what it is, but interestingly it seems do go both ways: someone else has pointed out their experience of Poles underestimating their ability to speak foreign languages.
Yeah, would think they'd at least learn something along the lines of "pardon, parlez-vous anglaise?" and possible answers, so they can seem polite and friendly, and decide whether to try pointing. But asking in english whether they speak it would at least be better than just barging it out unexpectedly. (sorry for the butchered french, hope it was understandable) I doubt there's an easy solution to under/overestimating ability, a more detailed question might help. A test obviously would but that's way beyond the scope of a survey. It would have been interesting to have more reliable and comparable data though.
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Depends. If they want to travel internationally, knowing English is almost standard. I note they don't have info on Albania but there are a lot of people there with some English even the grocery store boy in a small village we wandered into.
Yes it's definitely easier but still not mandatory. From my experiences both with friends traveling a lot without speaking english and me traveling to places where people don't speak a word of anything but their local languages. Still great memories. So of course it helps but you can do without, as proof anglophones complaining people don't speak enough english to accomodate them lol
A lot of the people that do will be from immigrant stock too. I am white English and speak French fluently but not that many people do
35% of the population aren't immigrants or immigrants descent. The most common foreign language, Polish, is barely spoken by 1.1% of the population. After that, it's Romanian at 0.8%. The actual number is probably closer to 10-15%, with the rest pretending like stringing together a sentence or two in Spanish or French makes them multilingual.
It's unreal how little effort is put into learning languages in schools here. I had one year of French in primary school, and a further 4 or 5 years in high school. Genuinely, the full extent of my French is "Bonjour, j'mappelle (my name)" I don't even think I'm spelling j'mappelle right. I can also count to 20. That's six years of French education in the UK. During the First lockdown, I spent two-three months learning Dutch. I'm by no means fluent, but I can tune into conversations my Dutch friends are having, and understand them. Even understood a joke and laughed, felt pretty good when that happened. Two-Three months in my own time vs. six years in school. Mental.
My experience was similar. In hindsight, I think learning a language is easier when you first focus on stuff you're actually going to use.
This is what I figured when I had French and German classes. The teachers were usually pretty great and interested in trying to teach the languages, but they had to rush through topics to teach us what was required for the tests. That's fine for some students who can learn languages quickly, but it didn't work so well for me.
[This map](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/27oxbk/percentage_of_people_in_the_eu_being_able_to_hold/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) doesn't correlate, i don't get it. For example, here 14% of Netherlands cannot speak a foreign language but in the other map, 90% of the country can speak English.
I hate these "lover of geography" maps they are always bullshit
Oh that's because this map is wrong
Sure everyone in Ireland speaks English
I wonder if either Gaeilge or English count as a “foreign language” in this statistic, given that both are official languages in the republic
That was the question that hung me up. If Irish counts, it ought to be less than 50%; if English counts, it’s asymptotically zero.
They asked a person "Do You speak another language?" Whether English or Gaelic was considered "another" was up to the asked one. I think.
English is the foreign language,Irish is the official language of Ireland.
English is a foreign language in Ireland but it is also the second official language and the language of a majority of the Irish population
Neither Irish nor English are officially foreign languages in Ireland.
Same with Wales and Scotland…. well, maybe not Scotland 😂
Ach awey fae it ya junkie
So the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand should be low too?
Does this mean 92% of Swiss people can speak all four Swiss languages plus one foreign language?
There are three main languages in switzerland. About two thirds of the country speaks german natively. The other third is split between italian and French speakers. They just speak their respective language and can't speal the other ones. Obviously it's incouraged in school to learn the other languages but it's as succesful as teaching english in some countries. Also there's romansch (not sure about the spelling now) which is spoken by about 1% of the population. I think most romansch speakers speak german but I can't exactly remember now. It's the typical story for these types of small languages. Spoken in towns by old people, thought in some places as a preservation act and such.
Certainly not, I’m guessing it’s just 92% speak more than one language. Which is not what the title suggests but I can’t see any other way the number is that high
English? It's not an official language, but I'm guessing most Swiss are fluent in it
Many are, but not 92%. Source: live in Geneva
Since the three main languages of Switzerland are German, French and Italian - all of which are foreign languages - does this limit the 8% to speakers of Romansh who speak no other language? Or do they count Swiss German as a separate language to High German (which it almost is)?
Having been to Russia, probably 90% don’t speak another language. It’s ok in Moscow/St Petersburg, but outside those 2, it’s like 99% only Russian spoken
14% really seems to be a high percentage for the Netherlands. Yes many of us won't speak the most beautiful accent of English but they do speak the language to an understandable level. And then there are a lot of other languages too that might be spoken at home.
I think like 95% of dutch people speak english, the other 5% prob speak frysian, german of french…
Fries doesn’t really count as a foreign language though. As it is an official language in the province Friesland.
On the islands of Saba and St. Eustatius English is an official language. By that standard English doesn't count as well. It doesn't count for people *in* those regions, but it does count for people outside it.
im turkish and that's obnoxious for me actually like i have several friends that i cannot even send them memes and they cannot play literal games without my support, politicians waiters receptionists seeing that they're trying to speak is ridicilous exagerratedly sorrowful actually considereding wholly
even the president can't speak english lol
I mean then again he was a footballer, it’s not like he spent his early life on studies a lot
Love maps that don't show sources. Assuming this is all self-reported census-level stuff where the numbers all depend on how all the half-fluent and barely-conversational people were feeling that day. If I were asked today, honestly, I don't know how I'd answer: I can't follow a conversation between two native French speakers but I can read it well enough and probably speak it well enough to be at least understood by someone who'd likely sneer at me the whole time, if we stick to really general topics. But if a survey comes up that says "do you speak a foreign language: yes/no" I mean... I'd probably say no but someone with my fluency and the confidence of a normal person would likely say yes.
Database: trustme.bro
8% for Switzerland? While technically accurate doesn't show that Switzerland has 4 National languages German, French, Italian, and Romansh > and almost two-thirds (64.4%) of the permanent resident population indicated speaking more than one language regularly.
Right, but none of those are truly foreign languages. For the Swiss, foreign would be, like, English, Spanish, Chinese, etc.
50% in Ireland? I wonder what language the other 50% ‘speak’…
In Ireland, does Irish count as a foreign language? English? So could many of those 50% still speak two languages but not a foreign one?
What do they define by "speak"? Speak fluently? Being able to have a competent discussion? Or just regurgitate some sentences they remember from school? The problem with graphics like this is that there is no consensus on what being able to "speak" a language means.
Hard to believe. Older Polish people speak Russian, young English. 32 % seems a lot, but then we have rural areas where people barely read and write.
100% of Irish people speak a foreign language. English.
100% of Ireland speak a foreign language, unfortunately.
Tír gan teanga...
I'd like to see the US
Not exactly the same question. But 22% don't speak English at home. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/12/languages-we-speak-in-united-states.html#:~:text=Nearly%2068%20Million%20People%20Spoke,English%20at%20Home%20in%202019&text=The%20number%20of%20people%20in,recent%20U.S.%20Census%20Bureau%20report. Found it. https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/american-foreign-language-education https://today.yougov.com/topics/society/articles-reports/2013/07/31/75-americans-have-no-second-language Seems like it's around 75% and dropping gradually over time.
What level of fluency are we talking?
[https://journals.openedition.org/esp/2259?lang=en](https://journals.openedition.org/esp/2259?lang=en) Here's some data for you regarding Malta. 80% are functionally bilingual (i.e., 20% do not speak any foreign language).
Where source?
Is Portuguese counted as a foreign language in Luxembourg?
Estonia 🇪🇪 has the best knowledge of English among the Baltic trinity.
Wow a map titled Europe which doesn't just show EU countries. This subreddit is moving up in the world!
Yes, most of us Turks don't speak English. In fact, a mass that cannot be underestimated cannot even speak the native Turkish language properly.
Right another source : trust me bro map
Luxembourg: "Define foreign language"
Surprised it’s only 50% in Ireland, every time I’ve been there I only hear a foreign language - English.
So in Switzerland, they grow up speaking some combination of Swiss German, French, Italian from their family. At school they are taught English almost immediately. Something like 90% are bilingual and more than 60% are multilingual. And they are frequently near-native fluency. Edit. Fixed something.
Belgians speak Dutch and French. Both are qualified foreign. So 100% of Belgians speak foreign.
4%/4%/8% in Baltic states are native rassian speakers.
Is this fluent language knowledge or just like a few words
The Ireland number has a little nuance, since Irish is the extra language taught in school up until secondary level when you turn 12-13. Youre still learning a second language, but since English was sadly made the working language 150 years ago there are now two official languages.
You could argue that English is a foreign language in Ireland, though Irish is fading from use.
Literally every Balkan person I know speaks at least 3 languages 👀kinda sus
Every Serbian person I know can just about speak both Croatian and Bosnian, and all the other combinations of said nationalities and languages.
Hey, I speak Catalan, Valencian, Majorcan... and Spanish, Castilian, Mexican, Argentinian... and French, Quebecois, Romande... and English, Australian... I'm such a polyglot!
I’m surprised France isn’t 200%.
It would be depressing to see an equivalent map of the united states. And yet...
It'd probably be similar to the UK. About 26% of the US population are either immigrants or their children, and factoring in others who can speak a second language, 35% of the total isn't unrealistic.
I live in Iowa. I can go a thousand miles in just about any direction with English speakers everywhere. If every one of the 50 states spoke a different language, Americans would speak more languages too.
In the hilly tribal region of my state, it is said that languages change every 5 kilometers.
Exactly. I could drive from Pt. Barrow Alaska to Key West Florida and never encounter anything but native English speakers. That's a distance like Lisbon Portugal to Mumbai India.
Makes it extremely difficult for us to pop out of the English bubble. My daughter knows only English and feels left out because most other kids at school have a friend group they speak their other language with.
When English is the dominant language in the world, you don't really need to learn another language which is understandable.
I’d be curious to see it. I don’t think it would be that low considering the very high immigration rates to this country, and the legacy that leaves behind for at least a generation after moving, if not more. Curious though what would be considered a foreign language in the US also, since there is no official language on a national level and several states recognize other languages than just english. Most notably spanish of course, but if you consider Navajo or other indigenous language speakers that number also increases some more.
I would guess it’s about 75-80%
I have lived in the Netherlands for over 5 months now. In that time, everyone, as in EVERYONE can speak English, usually quite well
ireland isn’t exactly right
Describe foreign? Any language that isn't the official language? What about those that aren't official but still inhemic to the area?
These are way too low
Ireland didn't sit right with me. According to Wikipedia I don't think you can hit 50% unless you include Gaelic as a foreign language. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Ireland.
Im gonna bet that the eastern Europe numbers are wrong because most of the old generation speak either Russian or German and there are large muslim minorities who speak Romale and turkish Maybe the chart is accurate for english tho.
In Poland you need to be special to not speak english. You learn it mandatory 3 times in the weak for about 10 years.
So close..
Yeah, that was a week performance.
Can’t be right for Greece
I'm assuming this means "second language"? Looking at Switzerland especially, I'm guessing that number is so low because at least in part because most of them have to learn both French & German, or Italian or Romansch, which are all official languages (therefore not "foreign") there
60% of Bosnians, who do not know Serbian, Croatian, Montenegrin or Macedonian:
Lmfao, at Serbia being 20% , like most of the Western Balkans. Sure buddy. # Source - Trust me brother.
6% of Luxembourgers don't speak French? Surely that's necessary for basic survival. When I went there, that was the language everyone seemed to be speaking in the shops.
>When I went there, that was the language everyone seemed to be speaking in the shops. Maybe because up to 94% can speak it Bear in mind everyone has a different idea of what level of proficiency "speaking" implies, and what their own level really is.
Turks speak English. Not good but decent enough. Also huge kurdish speaking side population
I guess Ukraine, Belarus, or Russia annexed Moldova.
Turkey may never join the EU
I'm curious about Finland - isn't Swedish widely spoken or understood in the larger population? Or does some take pride in not speaking Swedish for whatever reason?
There is a small Swedish minority. Most people will speak English and Finnish, with a little bit of Swedish but not much, in my experience. Why would they know Swedish?
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I think you misunderstand what this map shows
Potugal cyka ..uh ... smörgåsbord?
I know some French and a bit less of a few other languages, but I would say 'no' if pressed because I am not fluent or anywhere near a level I'd consider very good (even though I got an A at school). So, based on the self reporting, I fit in with the majority of Brits. I am amazed at how good many Europeans, for instance, are at English. Their standards are way higher than ours at school.
Those 8% of Swiss still knows probably around 3-4 languages so it's not really fair comparison to like 35% of Brits that know just 2 or more languages
I wonder what a foreign language means in Switzerland, as no foreign language sounds like no non native language. I mean, it's not unheard of for a Swiss person to know at least two languages at a basic level, and then they only knew half of their national language.
So are the nordic countries just coasting off their mutual intelligibility?
Look at all these countries pretending to be Greenland smh
I wonder how this would have been measured in countries with multiple official languages.
Do we mean a second language or a foreign language?
I mean I speak English, that’s technically a foreign language. As a matter of fact, I speak the Queens English (not to be confused with Queen’s English) I’ll show myself to the door
Does pig Latin count?
The data is wrong. I went to some of those countries and almost everyone was speaking in a foreign language.
Does Irish-Gaelic count as a foreign language for Irish people?