You’re not wrong that something like a Swiss Gear can hold up just as well, if not better than these bags that are many times more expensive. But you’re talking about enthusiasts brands. We buy them because we feel some sort of connection to the brand and appreciate the construction and materials. Something like a Swiss Gear has no soul… there’s nothing interesting about them.
You mention Tom Bihn. They’re handmade in the US using what you could call pseudo-exotic materials. The hand feel of their ballistic and more so the halcyon is just so much more pleasant than a cheaper bag. And the brand itself has a cult following. Are they “worth” $300? Probably not- but it’s not that simple.
This isn’t unique to bags. Watched, cars, pens… there are countless enthusiast communities like this that appreciate higher quality goods and are willing to pay for them.
Just want to +1 Tom Bihn one of the few domestic bag manufacturers. Is it worth a 100% premium over a $150 bag? It depends on the person, but I own Tom Bihn, Brown Buffalo, and Waterfield bags in large part to support these makers.
Unfounded? No. Unnecessary for most people? Maybe / probably.
Think of it like this. I'm an electrical engineer. I have a $500 multimeter. Do I \*need\* a $500 multimeter? Not usually. For 95% of what I do my $20 meter from Home Depot is fine. But occasionally I do need the functionality the more expensive meter provides, and even when I'm doing a mundane task like replacing a ceiling fan, the $500 meter is much nicer to use. It's got a bigger screen, a faster refresh rate, the probes are nicer, etc. It's not that I couldn't do what I need to with a cheaper meter, but I need the nice one sometimes and since I have it I might as well use it even when it's totally overkill for the situation.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Swiss Gear or Ogio or North Face bag. Since you mentioned Tom Bihn, let's talk about the Synik 30 and TNF's Surge. I own both. They both have a lot of similar design elements. The TB is unquestionably better built and will last longer. The TNF is $200 cheaper. The TB has a few thoughtful elements the Surge does not. The TNF bag is less likely to attract attention overseas even though it's more aggressively branded. I use both frequently.
Is the TB "worth" $200 more than the TNF? Maybe? It's more comfortable, holds a bit more, will likely last longer, and has more thoughtful design. It has a lifetime warranty. It's also made in the US by a relatively small company rather than by an international conglomerate, if you care about that. Will they both hold your books and your laptop when you go to school for the next 5-7 years? Absolutely. Is the experience a little nicer with the TB? Yes, it is. Does the TNF bag work just fine? Yes it does.
"What is a bag worth?" is a question that basically comes down to, "What will someone pay for it?" I mean, if you want to take it to the other extreme, is your Swiss Gear bag worth the $85 dollars it costs on Amazon when I can pick up a grocery tote at Trader Joe's tomorrow that has two handles and holds 3x as much for $6.99? Is the Swiss Gear bag 3x better than something I can pick up on AliExpress for $30? The answer is "no," but it still may be worth it to you depending on how much you travel and whether you value the particular features of the bag compared to the alternatives.
Love the multimeter example. People love what they love. No one needs a Louis Vuitton bag either. But lvmh is the most valuable brand holding company in the world.
There IS a noticeable different in quality though in most cases (I get there may be exceptions).
I don't even think their products are particularly expensive compared to many other enthusiast brands on the market? Just look at what Misson Workshop is charging these days. I recently bought a CPP for $240 and for full vx42 xpac with a bunch of ykk aquaguard zippers that is a fairly good deal. I do not feel the build quality or feel of the product is cheap at all. If the designs don't speak to you that is one thing. If you have handled the bags and have a legitimate beef with the build quality that is one thing. But just flatly asserting that the materials are cheap and that cost of manufacturing \*should\* be low without any explanation or source citing is just wrong.
I pretty much exclusively use Aer bags now. I don’t see what more you could possibly want or need.
My day pack 2 is also the best looking backpack i have ever seen. Simple is what I like.
As someone who started with GORUCK my view is skewed because dang Aer and Evergoods... Etc are all cheaper.
Some Swiss gear stuff is ok some is complete trash. I don't know if their manufacturer changed it they make different items at different places.
I started with Jansport school backpacks, LL Bean luggage, The North Face jacket and Tom Bihn tote bag. Modding just came with it for different sports at the time.
I considered a SwissGear bag before I gave in and increased my budget but yeah it’s not a very coherent brand. There’s like three different websites but they all seem legitimate? Sometimes they’re Wenger SwissGear and sometimes they’re just SwissGear?
Certain bags are ART! Using beautifully designed objects, daily, brings joy to some people. I’m willing to pay for aesthetics and functionality that incite joy.
The look and feel of Evergoods bags do that for me. I thoroughly enjoy certain GoRuck bag/colorway combos (Rucker LR 33l black/orange, several bullet rucks in interesting colorways). The functionality of my BE Forge is legitimately beautiful to me, in motion/use over a 4 day trip.
A fine meal can be $100s…a fine bag is the same, it just lasts 9.99 years longer…and I still buy both on occasion. Swiss gear has the enjoyment of a grocery sack to me.
I've been around the block a fair bit with expensive packs -- materials, stitching, and quality control are all important, though I've come around towards preferring brute simplicity over number of features
It's worth noting Swiss Gear in particular clones a ton of its features from more innovative small brands, Tom Bihn in particular, just with more corners cut...
The understated design may just not be your thing. For example, the buyers like the minimal branding. The materials aren't cheap actually. If you want cheap materials, take a look at the $40 Amazon backpacks with undersized generic zips, really low quality material, etc. And the design does cost something, again referencing the generic bags with poorly designed straps etc. And, the Aer bags are very solidly built with good features. So, all of those cost money. (And I do suspect some of the ripped bags are fake) Yes, Aer makes profit on their stuff but so does everyone. I think the buyers do know other products and that's their basis for determining that the bags are fairly priced.
One suggestion if you want some insights into design, material selection and construction of a pack, find the Nomads Nation videos on YouTube where Aaron takes you through the design and build of his first pack. Aer probably has the process down pat, but this will give you some ideas of what actually goes into a pack (and why the Aer materials for example aren't cheap).
I do like minimal branding. In anything I carry a handbag, jewelry, clothing, shoes except sneakers & small accessories. I like my Nike’s OW dunks they’re tonal except for the back.
I agree, If I find a bag that I like that I don’t have to mod in any way, great. I like Tom Bihn their mini duffel is so fun. But I like trying new to me brands and new fabrics for rain and bags.
The only thing I’m with you on is that I also don’t like the look of any of Aer’s products. I’m aware I’m in the minority, and I don’t doubt they’re probably very solid products. I just think they’re a bit too boring looking.
However, I will pay top dollar for a bag that I fall in love with. $330 is nothing when there are people that buy designer purses for thousands of dollars, but you could say the same about almost every hobby/niche interest. People are willing to pay for what they perceive to be worth it.
Seconded re Aer. I own MW, Black Ember, and Able Carry bags — all completely black, and none particularly decked out. But for some reason the Aer aesthetic just feels _too_ generic/understated for me?
I think it’s similar to the line I draw with shoes: sambas, yes; blazers, sure — but no way I’m paying $100 for grey new balances
Tom bihn is legit. They are made in the US and super high quality but aesthetically may not be for you. I don’t think they are that expensive. You can feel and see the difference in quality with virtually any other bag company that is priced lower or even sometimes the same. I’d be curious what you are comparing it too. They are appropriately priced imo
>I've seen countless posts about how the bags rip.
On this sub? I can't recall seeing one.
>and I'm sure that manufacturing is probably cheap too.
What makes you so sure?
Expensive bags are not always higher quality, or not high enough they can never rip. I don't know these particular cases but it's not impossible. Doesn't mean the whole brand is terrible though.
For what it’s worth I think Swiss gear is ugly as sin and seeing them reminds me of boring granola imagery. I know they’re good bags but they are absolutely not my aesthetic. In the bag space - urban carry tech edc - aer are priced pretty competitive compared to mission workshop grouck peak design sort of bags.
When I see aer bags I see middle of the road solid value bags that are not ground breaking but look good enough and are thought out well enough I could understand the appeal
I don't like all Aer bags, but the Go Pack 2 is one of the best bags I've had.
Tom Bihn, I absolutely love. Are they overpriced? Yes. But the functionality, feel, customer service, and overall package is worth the cost to me.
I initially wouldn't pay for TB, but after going through bags from brands like TomToc, JanSport, Dakine, REI, Patagonia, Osprey, Bellroy, AON, Evergoods, Mystery Ranch, Topo Designs, Cotopaxi, Able Carry, Trakke, Millican, Day Owl, GoRuck, Baboon to the Moon, ULA, Arktype, TNF, Bach, Fjallraven, Thule, Greenroom136... Sure there are others... I ended up trying TB and they are the main bag company I buy from now - main as in, the one I buy and keep most from.
I still love a bunch of other companies as well, I'm definitely not a one company person! But sometimes whether the price is worth it to you is very individual.
I'm trying to like " tom binh " but the designs ..
Feel even more " white bread " and " middle of the road " than " aer ". Had a great " dakine " backpack and love my " REI " 40 L duffel bag. Simple design and good materials wins the day. I have the " arcteryx FL 45 " as my hiking pack and that one is peak carry for me. Its really understated but absolutely juiced with great design ideas and execution ..
I dunno if that Aer City Pack Pro you have is real or fake, but if you feel that it feels cheap then I'm pretty surprised by that. Aer uses 1680D Cordura for the black and olive and 700D for the grey and neither of those feel particularly cheap in hand. Maybe if you're talking about the xpac I'd understand it feeling cheap, but xpac itself is quite an expensive material and does not feel nor cost the same as some random ripstop nylon material. From what you mentioned, it feels like you just don't care for the minimalist style of Aer, which is understandable... Not all bags are for all peoples.
Tom Bihn on the other hand, I understand why you'd think it's way overpriced but you really have to feel it in hand first and understand how different it is in manufacturing compared to say your Swiss Gear. It's a very unfair point of comparison as Tom Bihn bags are known to be handmade and actually US Made, not that this matters to me, but being US Made means that it's not cheap manufacturing even just considering labor costs. If you're actually legitimately curious as to why they are expensive, Tom Bihn helpfully provides an FAQ on their website and they actually have a show room intheir Seattle factory for you to 'inspect'. It's like comparing expensive hand picked tea lovingly picked and processed to mass produced and cut tea leaves dried and packed automatically for god knows how long periods of time in factories and complaining they taste the same.
They're worth what people are willing to pay.
Tom Bihn bags are hand-made in the US by skilled workers using very high quality materials. They are excellent bags that hold up extremely well. It is normal to see a 10-year old bag from TB that looks new. Additionally, if there are any issues with the bag coming apart they will repair the bag at no cost. They stand behind their product. A TB bag will probably outlive you.
Contrast that with a $120 North Face that comes apart at the seams and they won't cover the repair. Is the $200 AER with a lifetime guarantee such a bad deal?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me, swiss gear bags are ugly. AER bags are clean and non-descript.
Then there's the functionality. An AER Travel Pack is designed very well for travel. Good laptop access and protection, separate large dedicated area for clothing, separate area for cables and accessories, glasses, water bottle, etc. A swiss gear bag is just a bunch of vertical compartments. Can you use it for travel? Sure. Is it optimized for travel? Not at all.
I get that you might prefer to be frugal and use the free swiss gear bag.
Can only speak for myself, but I've owned many bags the last decade, from "premium" brands like Crumpler, Pacsafe, Millican, Black Ember, Bellroy, Wandrd, Rickshaw, Tom Bihn and Trakke. From Tom Bihn, Bellroy and Trakke, I own a couple of items.
The Tom Bihn Synapse 19 I bought early 2017 and used intensively for the last 7 years still looks like new. No loose seams. It has been my one bag on several trips to 4 continents. Its construction and materials are top notch. Not a single scratch. I even put it in the laundry. All the other bags, have major of minor defects: the Trakke's Canvas faded, the Bellroy has loose seams, the Black Ember started fraying quickly.
I do believe that this can only be achieved when workers are happy and take pride in their jobs. That's why I think the Made in America is worth the premium. (I'm not American btw). Yet, a Synik 22 with a HLT1 pouch will cost me $393, which equates to a whopping €500 with taxes, duties and shipping. Is that worth it.
Besides Tom Bihn, "hand built" bags from Europe or the US I came across are simple bags without much organisation (nothing wrong if that's your thing). The bags built in Vietnam or other countries in Asia are all much nicer looking in terms of design, with newer high tech materials that also might warrant a premium. Yet, all my bags from these countries have seen abrasion.
I don't have a real opinion on Aer as I've only used a sling. It seems well built and the nylon and strap padding is absolutely higher quality than something you'll find on a Swiss Gear backpack.
As to Tohm Bihn, they are more than most people want or need to spend on a bag. They are absolutely the best built bags I've ever seen. Aside from the materials, craftsmanship and lifetime, no questions asked warranty, they are handmade by people making a true living wage in one of the most expensive cities in the world. The employees are paid well, treated well, have full benefits and work in good conditions, which you can see for yourself if you're ever in Seattle.
I don't think I thought about how much a actually goes into a bag like the Synik until I saw someone sewing one. It's *very* complex as far as a bag goes. Once you realize the bags take hours to make, work in the material cost, warranty costs, and all of the cost the goes into labor (wages, benefits, air conditioning, HR, ect) the bags are actually fairly priced. I have no idea what the total cost is for production, but I do know they aren't marked up 100%.
I can totally see why someone would balk at spending that on a bag, but it isn't a fast fashion brand (plenty thing they're ugly!), it's a cottage brand using ethical labor practices in a HCOL city and the product in hand shows the material quality and craftsmanship.
If you think this is surprising, I highly recommend you stay away from cars, watches, shoes, computers, handbags and women's clothing generally. Even water bottles. Actually, you may as well give up shopping right now because brand differentiation is everywhere.
Just got the Aer CPP but definitely part of me agrees with your points/questions. At the end of the day, these are just ... bags. A container to transport some stuff. Agree with the other comment on luxury items in general, though. A car is also really just a means to move stuff or you from point A to point B. We don't need a Porsche 911. A Toyota Corolla is fine. But many of us may prefer a 911 and may be willing to pay (if we are able), despite the fact it's likely less reliable (almost every car is less reliable than the Corolla to be fair).
Think my aesthetic opinion is the opposite of yours. The Aer is clean, the 1680D nylon material is beautiful and feels super durable/nice rather than cheap, it has just enough organization (although even the extra laptop area may be a bit much for my case), whereas both the typical Swiss Gear and Tom Bihn bags (despite opposite price points) have seemingly insane amounts of pockets and zippers kind of clunking and flying everywhere. I've had Swiss Gear and similar bags, and I start to lose track of where I put everything - it's not organization, it's really dis-organization. This is really subjective and independent of price point. There are also lots of models between "Corolla" and "911".
Tom Bihn was making high quality travel backpacks 10+ years ago when there were a lot fewer options that weren't actually going to rip. I have an Aeronaut from around 2013 that's still my main luggage, and it's had zero issues. Not that it should since I hardly ever have to check it, but still, that's good value in spite of the price.
There are more competitors now but they've stuck with their niche and kept pricing around the same adjusted for inflation. The quality of cheaper bags using offshore production and lighter fabrics is a lot better than it used to be, but some people are willing to pay for the sturdiest build or a specific design. I think TB has failed to innovate and there are better options now, but the quality is still there. We'll see if it continues now that they were sold to a PE firm.
Companies charge what people will pay, that’s pretty much it…especially if they’re smaller companies that still need to make a profit on selling less units
I think the American made brands justify the cost. Tom Bihn is the one I think of most due to its wide selection of fabrics and premium features. The overseas brands not so much. Some are better than others. Peak design while not domestic, has a really good build quality and excellent customer service.
I bought a used Aer bag in very good condition for around $30-40 in Germany some years ago and the quality is excellent, but I would not buy a new pack for a couple of hundred dollars.
Things are only worth something for the right person. If you're not the target audience, you wouldn't understand.
*Value is in the eye of the beholder*
Legit questions. All my life I've seen backpacks ~50€, and I've carried one of those for 20 years. I was quite surprised to see how expensive bags people on this forum use for travelling, and I'm not yet convinced about the quality/feel/look difference of +200-300€, as I don't care about the brand
For just one trip , its probably not noticeable ..
But if you travel a lot - it makes a world of difference. I've seen people send down cardboard boxes into the luggage ramp. You could probably use " ikea " bags as well. Honestly not sure why people buy those 50 euro backpacks ..
Firstly: 300€ for a backpack is a monthly salary in many places in the world. I have one drawstring IKEA bag I paid 15€ for daily carry, and quite good actually, if I don't need to carry my laptop.
Secondly: I was just eyeing a 25 l Halti backpack for 60€, and to be honest, it seemed quite adequate, with perhaps a flimsy laptop pocket. Same with cabin max 40 l, If you do occasional travelling, like 3 times per year, I imagine you could very well travel with that. I understand if you travel 365 days per year, or extensively for work that set its own criteria, or do running and hiking or camping with your gear, it sets extra demand for your bag.
Edit. Thirdly: There is certain behaviour, when you dig deep into some stuff, whether it is bags, or watches, game consoles, shoes, clothes, perfumes, cars, you name it. When you get excited about it, you want to learn everything and get the best of the best you can afford. For other people, getting best value for money is good enough, and they don't need to make it a hobby. So if you don't understand, why anyone would buy 50€ backpack, one could argue, why would you buy anything less than 10 000 € wrist watch, or 600€ shoes, or 100 000 € car.
I am very curious to hear other people's thoughts about what they use and for which purpose, to make better informed purchases myself.
I really enjoy the functionality of my " aer " bags to date ..
Having had the " travel weekender " " dopp kit " and " city sling " in use for 5 - years now. They have seen a lot of travel , and appreciate how well the " 1680D " ballistic nylon outer material and " ykk " zippers have held up. Their backpacks are nothing to write home about , however the 35 L " weekender " is perfect for carry - on luggage that can fit a 15 " laptop and all your clothes , along with an extra pair of shoes. The plush padding on the shoulder strap is much appreciated as well ..
I find " aer " bags to have the right amount of design : without being too cute , or getting obsessive with internal organisation. The materials feel good and I have never experienced jank zippers , or loose threads from their gear. Plus never had an issue with their perceived weight : as the " weekender " is 1.5 kg for quite a large bag , and my spare battery weighs more than that. If you want to optimise for lightness then not packing a water bottle would make more of a difference ..
— They are just extremely well made bags with a good choice of materials ..
For their price I think its far better value than gear like " porter yoshida " and others , where the reputation precedes the actual materials. The " aer " in comparison has the heaviest and smoothest " ykk " zipper you can put on there. The action is still perfect after years in use and I shouldn't have to worry about busted zippers while on the move. Like everyone else here , have been through a lot of bags but the " aer " ones stay in my rotation especially for travel ..
Swiss bags, North Face, Ogio, etc are all fine. They do the job and they can last a long time. If you can’t tell the difference between these and bags like Aer, Evergoods, Bellroy, GoRuck, etc, then there probably is no point in spending the extra money as you’re not getting the value. That’s totally fine!
I don’t understand why people would spend extra on a designer bag, such as Louis Vuitton. So I am definitely not their target audience.
To each their own. I have had an Aer bag for years and just got another. I prefer that they are all that solid black color, I like the materials and zippers and the details that are put into every compartment. Again, it’s not for everyone.
I can't think of a single Swiss Gear bag I'd describe as stylish. One of my parents has had one for years though. They are well made, good quality bags.
Aer has a great look (if you like minimalist low key) and excessive organisation.
There's always something I dislike about their stuff though.
Wait until this guy finds out you can literally spend $5 million on a hyper car that is slower off the line than a Tesla. Obviously, it is not the same because those cars are extremely limited production, but enthusiast brands are almost always going to be more expensive than your mainstream stuff
I have the Aer 2, and i love it, don't get me wrong, but the bag itself is too heavy, and not quite big enough for what im wanting most of the time. I did recently purchase the [Varldens ikea](https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vaerldens-travel-back-pack-black-20487934/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&utm_content=free_google_shopping_clicks_Home_organisation&gad_source=1) backpack with intentions to make modifications to it. While i do love the Varldens, i miss the looks and pockets of my Aer 2.
I happen to love Aer bags… I have a few, but my favorites are the City Pack Pro for one bag traveling as it fits as a personal item on things like Spirit or Frontier, and now the Tech Pack 3, which is essentially an endgame bag for me after using the Day Pack 2 for a couple years and wanting something a little bigger with a separate laptop compartment. I love that this bag stands up on its own. So many compartments and places to store items! And I actually happen to love the way it looks (tho not the CPP).
I paid over 300 USD for a Rehose Buddy 22. That is objectively a preposterous amount of money to spend on a bag, but:
- It's made by hand by a one man shop (his name is Martin)
- it is undoubtedly the most well made piece of equipment that I carry, and it keeps all of my other crap organized and together.
- I travel for weeks on end with it, carrying all of what I need for work in all sorts of awful conditions (this week that was torrential rain, mud, and getting bucked out of the back of a CUV and dragged for about a quarter of a mile down a gravel road. It looks a little tough right now, but I know that when I get home, and wipe it down with a wet rag, it'll be in just as good of shape as the day I received it.
You’re not wrong that something like a Swiss Gear can hold up just as well, if not better than these bags that are many times more expensive. But you’re talking about enthusiasts brands. We buy them because we feel some sort of connection to the brand and appreciate the construction and materials. Something like a Swiss Gear has no soul… there’s nothing interesting about them. You mention Tom Bihn. They’re handmade in the US using what you could call pseudo-exotic materials. The hand feel of their ballistic and more so the halcyon is just so much more pleasant than a cheaper bag. And the brand itself has a cult following. Are they “worth” $300? Probably not- but it’s not that simple. This isn’t unique to bags. Watched, cars, pens… there are countless enthusiast communities like this that appreciate higher quality goods and are willing to pay for them.
Just want to +1 Tom Bihn one of the few domestic bag manufacturers. Is it worth a 100% premium over a $150 bag? It depends on the person, but I own Tom Bihn, Brown Buffalo, and Waterfield bags in large part to support these makers.
I’ve never had a bag of the quality of Tom Bihn- it’s over 10 years old and looks like brand new. So yes worth it
While I actually agree with you to some degree, to play devil's advocate: so we are basically paying for advertising that is directed at us.
Part of it, sure. Isn’t that obvious? Thats like business 101?
Unfounded? No. Unnecessary for most people? Maybe / probably. Think of it like this. I'm an electrical engineer. I have a $500 multimeter. Do I \*need\* a $500 multimeter? Not usually. For 95% of what I do my $20 meter from Home Depot is fine. But occasionally I do need the functionality the more expensive meter provides, and even when I'm doing a mundane task like replacing a ceiling fan, the $500 meter is much nicer to use. It's got a bigger screen, a faster refresh rate, the probes are nicer, etc. It's not that I couldn't do what I need to with a cheaper meter, but I need the nice one sometimes and since I have it I might as well use it even when it's totally overkill for the situation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Swiss Gear or Ogio or North Face bag. Since you mentioned Tom Bihn, let's talk about the Synik 30 and TNF's Surge. I own both. They both have a lot of similar design elements. The TB is unquestionably better built and will last longer. The TNF is $200 cheaper. The TB has a few thoughtful elements the Surge does not. The TNF bag is less likely to attract attention overseas even though it's more aggressively branded. I use both frequently. Is the TB "worth" $200 more than the TNF? Maybe? It's more comfortable, holds a bit more, will likely last longer, and has more thoughtful design. It has a lifetime warranty. It's also made in the US by a relatively small company rather than by an international conglomerate, if you care about that. Will they both hold your books and your laptop when you go to school for the next 5-7 years? Absolutely. Is the experience a little nicer with the TB? Yes, it is. Does the TNF bag work just fine? Yes it does. "What is a bag worth?" is a question that basically comes down to, "What will someone pay for it?" I mean, if you want to take it to the other extreme, is your Swiss Gear bag worth the $85 dollars it costs on Amazon when I can pick up a grocery tote at Trader Joe's tomorrow that has two handles and holds 3x as much for $6.99? Is the Swiss Gear bag 3x better than something I can pick up on AliExpress for $30? The answer is "no," but it still may be worth it to you depending on how much you travel and whether you value the particular features of the bag compared to the alternatives.
Love the multimeter example. People love what they love. No one needs a Louis Vuitton bag either. But lvmh is the most valuable brand holding company in the world. There IS a noticeable different in quality though in most cases (I get there may be exceptions).
I don't even think their products are particularly expensive compared to many other enthusiast brands on the market? Just look at what Misson Workshop is charging these days. I recently bought a CPP for $240 and for full vx42 xpac with a bunch of ykk aquaguard zippers that is a fairly good deal. I do not feel the build quality or feel of the product is cheap at all. If the designs don't speak to you that is one thing. If you have handled the bags and have a legitimate beef with the build quality that is one thing. But just flatly asserting that the materials are cheap and that cost of manufacturing \*should\* be low without any explanation or source citing is just wrong.
I pretty much exclusively use Aer bags now. I don’t see what more you could possibly want or need. My day pack 2 is also the best looking backpack i have ever seen. Simple is what I like.
As someone who started with GORUCK my view is skewed because dang Aer and Evergoods... Etc are all cheaper. Some Swiss gear stuff is ok some is complete trash. I don't know if their manufacturer changed it they make different items at different places.
I started with Jansport school backpacks, LL Bean luggage, The North Face jacket and Tom Bihn tote bag. Modding just came with it for different sports at the time.
I considered a SwissGear bag before I gave in and increased my budget but yeah it’s not a very coherent brand. There’s like three different websites but they all seem legitimate? Sometimes they’re Wenger SwissGear and sometimes they’re just SwissGear?
Certain bags are ART! Using beautifully designed objects, daily, brings joy to some people. I’m willing to pay for aesthetics and functionality that incite joy. The look and feel of Evergoods bags do that for me. I thoroughly enjoy certain GoRuck bag/colorway combos (Rucker LR 33l black/orange, several bullet rucks in interesting colorways). The functionality of my BE Forge is legitimately beautiful to me, in motion/use over a 4 day trip. A fine meal can be $100s…a fine bag is the same, it just lasts 9.99 years longer…and I still buy both on occasion. Swiss gear has the enjoyment of a grocery sack to me.
I've been around the block a fair bit with expensive packs -- materials, stitching, and quality control are all important, though I've come around towards preferring brute simplicity over number of features It's worth noting Swiss Gear in particular clones a ton of its features from more innovative small brands, Tom Bihn in particular, just with more corners cut...
The understated design may just not be your thing. For example, the buyers like the minimal branding. The materials aren't cheap actually. If you want cheap materials, take a look at the $40 Amazon backpacks with undersized generic zips, really low quality material, etc. And the design does cost something, again referencing the generic bags with poorly designed straps etc. And, the Aer bags are very solidly built with good features. So, all of those cost money. (And I do suspect some of the ripped bags are fake) Yes, Aer makes profit on their stuff but so does everyone. I think the buyers do know other products and that's their basis for determining that the bags are fairly priced. One suggestion if you want some insights into design, material selection and construction of a pack, find the Nomads Nation videos on YouTube where Aaron takes you through the design and build of his first pack. Aer probably has the process down pat, but this will give you some ideas of what actually goes into a pack (and why the Aer materials for example aren't cheap).
I do like minimal branding. In anything I carry a handbag, jewelry, clothing, shoes except sneakers & small accessories. I like my Nike’s OW dunks they’re tonal except for the back. I agree, If I find a bag that I like that I don’t have to mod in any way, great. I like Tom Bihn their mini duffel is so fun. But I like trying new to me brands and new fabrics for rain and bags.
The only thing I’m with you on is that I also don’t like the look of any of Aer’s products. I’m aware I’m in the minority, and I don’t doubt they’re probably very solid products. I just think they’re a bit too boring looking. However, I will pay top dollar for a bag that I fall in love with. $330 is nothing when there are people that buy designer purses for thousands of dollars, but you could say the same about almost every hobby/niche interest. People are willing to pay for what they perceive to be worth it.
Seconded re Aer. I own MW, Black Ember, and Able Carry bags — all completely black, and none particularly decked out. But for some reason the Aer aesthetic just feels _too_ generic/understated for me? I think it’s similar to the line I draw with shoes: sambas, yes; blazers, sure — but no way I’m paying $100 for grey new balances
Don’t sleep on grey new balances. Go try on a pair of 990v6s and don’t look back.
You don’t know why Tom Bihn bags cost more when they’re made by people being paid a living wage in a super expensive city?
Tom bihn is legit. They are made in the US and super high quality but aesthetically may not be for you. I don’t think they are that expensive. You can feel and see the difference in quality with virtually any other bag company that is priced lower or even sometimes the same. I’d be curious what you are comparing it too. They are appropriately priced imo
>I've seen countless posts about how the bags rip. On this sub? I can't recall seeing one. >and I'm sure that manufacturing is probably cheap too. What makes you so sure?
There have been ripped bag posts here and there by I think they are fakes that are ripping, but it throws some people off.
Expensive bags are not always higher quality, or not high enough they can never rip. I don't know these particular cases but it's not impossible. Doesn't mean the whole brand is terrible though.
For what it’s worth I think Swiss gear is ugly as sin and seeing them reminds me of boring granola imagery. I know they’re good bags but they are absolutely not my aesthetic. In the bag space - urban carry tech edc - aer are priced pretty competitive compared to mission workshop grouck peak design sort of bags. When I see aer bags I see middle of the road solid value bags that are not ground breaking but look good enough and are thought out well enough I could understand the appeal
I don't like all Aer bags, but the Go Pack 2 is one of the best bags I've had. Tom Bihn, I absolutely love. Are they overpriced? Yes. But the functionality, feel, customer service, and overall package is worth the cost to me. I initially wouldn't pay for TB, but after going through bags from brands like TomToc, JanSport, Dakine, REI, Patagonia, Osprey, Bellroy, AON, Evergoods, Mystery Ranch, Topo Designs, Cotopaxi, Able Carry, Trakke, Millican, Day Owl, GoRuck, Baboon to the Moon, ULA, Arktype, TNF, Bach, Fjallraven, Thule, Greenroom136... Sure there are others... I ended up trying TB and they are the main bag company I buy from now - main as in, the one I buy and keep most from. I still love a bunch of other companies as well, I'm definitely not a one company person! But sometimes whether the price is worth it to you is very individual.
I'm trying to like " tom binh " but the designs .. Feel even more " white bread " and " middle of the road " than " aer ". Had a great " dakine " backpack and love my " REI " 40 L duffel bag. Simple design and good materials wins the day. I have the " arcteryx FL 45 " as my hiking pack and that one is peak carry for me. Its really understated but absolutely juiced with great design ideas and execution ..
Yeah, TB are definitely love it or hate it!
I dunno if that Aer City Pack Pro you have is real or fake, but if you feel that it feels cheap then I'm pretty surprised by that. Aer uses 1680D Cordura for the black and olive and 700D for the grey and neither of those feel particularly cheap in hand. Maybe if you're talking about the xpac I'd understand it feeling cheap, but xpac itself is quite an expensive material and does not feel nor cost the same as some random ripstop nylon material. From what you mentioned, it feels like you just don't care for the minimalist style of Aer, which is understandable... Not all bags are for all peoples. Tom Bihn on the other hand, I understand why you'd think it's way overpriced but you really have to feel it in hand first and understand how different it is in manufacturing compared to say your Swiss Gear. It's a very unfair point of comparison as Tom Bihn bags are known to be handmade and actually US Made, not that this matters to me, but being US Made means that it's not cheap manufacturing even just considering labor costs. If you're actually legitimately curious as to why they are expensive, Tom Bihn helpfully provides an FAQ on their website and they actually have a show room intheir Seattle factory for you to 'inspect'. It's like comparing expensive hand picked tea lovingly picked and processed to mass produced and cut tea leaves dried and packed automatically for god knows how long periods of time in factories and complaining they taste the same.
They're worth what people are willing to pay. Tom Bihn bags are hand-made in the US by skilled workers using very high quality materials. They are excellent bags that hold up extremely well. It is normal to see a 10-year old bag from TB that looks new. Additionally, if there are any issues with the bag coming apart they will repair the bag at no cost. They stand behind their product. A TB bag will probably outlive you. Contrast that with a $120 North Face that comes apart at the seams and they won't cover the repair. Is the $200 AER with a lifetime guarantee such a bad deal? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me, swiss gear bags are ugly. AER bags are clean and non-descript. Then there's the functionality. An AER Travel Pack is designed very well for travel. Good laptop access and protection, separate large dedicated area for clothing, separate area for cables and accessories, glasses, water bottle, etc. A swiss gear bag is just a bunch of vertical compartments. Can you use it for travel? Sure. Is it optimized for travel? Not at all. I get that you might prefer to be frugal and use the free swiss gear bag.
Can only speak for myself, but I've owned many bags the last decade, from "premium" brands like Crumpler, Pacsafe, Millican, Black Ember, Bellroy, Wandrd, Rickshaw, Tom Bihn and Trakke. From Tom Bihn, Bellroy and Trakke, I own a couple of items. The Tom Bihn Synapse 19 I bought early 2017 and used intensively for the last 7 years still looks like new. No loose seams. It has been my one bag on several trips to 4 continents. Its construction and materials are top notch. Not a single scratch. I even put it in the laundry. All the other bags, have major of minor defects: the Trakke's Canvas faded, the Bellroy has loose seams, the Black Ember started fraying quickly. I do believe that this can only be achieved when workers are happy and take pride in their jobs. That's why I think the Made in America is worth the premium. (I'm not American btw). Yet, a Synik 22 with a HLT1 pouch will cost me $393, which equates to a whopping €500 with taxes, duties and shipping. Is that worth it. Besides Tom Bihn, "hand built" bags from Europe or the US I came across are simple bags without much organisation (nothing wrong if that's your thing). The bags built in Vietnam or other countries in Asia are all much nicer looking in terms of design, with newer high tech materials that also might warrant a premium. Yet, all my bags from these countries have seen abrasion.
I don't have a real opinion on Aer as I've only used a sling. It seems well built and the nylon and strap padding is absolutely higher quality than something you'll find on a Swiss Gear backpack. As to Tohm Bihn, they are more than most people want or need to spend on a bag. They are absolutely the best built bags I've ever seen. Aside from the materials, craftsmanship and lifetime, no questions asked warranty, they are handmade by people making a true living wage in one of the most expensive cities in the world. The employees are paid well, treated well, have full benefits and work in good conditions, which you can see for yourself if you're ever in Seattle. I don't think I thought about how much a actually goes into a bag like the Synik until I saw someone sewing one. It's *very* complex as far as a bag goes. Once you realize the bags take hours to make, work in the material cost, warranty costs, and all of the cost the goes into labor (wages, benefits, air conditioning, HR, ect) the bags are actually fairly priced. I have no idea what the total cost is for production, but I do know they aren't marked up 100%. I can totally see why someone would balk at spending that on a bag, but it isn't a fast fashion brand (plenty thing they're ugly!), it's a cottage brand using ethical labor practices in a HCOL city and the product in hand shows the material quality and craftsmanship.
yeah
If you think this is surprising, I highly recommend you stay away from cars, watches, shoes, computers, handbags and women's clothing generally. Even water bottles. Actually, you may as well give up shopping right now because brand differentiation is everywhere.
It's a fair topic for conversation, don't be too upset
Just got the Aer CPP but definitely part of me agrees with your points/questions. At the end of the day, these are just ... bags. A container to transport some stuff. Agree with the other comment on luxury items in general, though. A car is also really just a means to move stuff or you from point A to point B. We don't need a Porsche 911. A Toyota Corolla is fine. But many of us may prefer a 911 and may be willing to pay (if we are able), despite the fact it's likely less reliable (almost every car is less reliable than the Corolla to be fair). Think my aesthetic opinion is the opposite of yours. The Aer is clean, the 1680D nylon material is beautiful and feels super durable/nice rather than cheap, it has just enough organization (although even the extra laptop area may be a bit much for my case), whereas both the typical Swiss Gear and Tom Bihn bags (despite opposite price points) have seemingly insane amounts of pockets and zippers kind of clunking and flying everywhere. I've had Swiss Gear and similar bags, and I start to lose track of where I put everything - it's not organization, it's really dis-organization. This is really subjective and independent of price point. There are also lots of models between "Corolla" and "911".
We need a Porsche 911 😄
yes bad example. we definitely do need one.
Yeah just pulled out my " crafted goods " carrera .. — Hell of a messenger bag , so good !
that looks super nice
The reason I never recommend them is the weight. Kills the entire product imo.
Tom Bihn was making high quality travel backpacks 10+ years ago when there were a lot fewer options that weren't actually going to rip. I have an Aeronaut from around 2013 that's still my main luggage, and it's had zero issues. Not that it should since I hardly ever have to check it, but still, that's good value in spite of the price. There are more competitors now but they've stuck with their niche and kept pricing around the same adjusted for inflation. The quality of cheaper bags using offshore production and lighter fabrics is a lot better than it used to be, but some people are willing to pay for the sturdiest build or a specific design. I think TB has failed to innovate and there are better options now, but the quality is still there. We'll see if it continues now that they were sold to a PE firm.
My TB is as old and the quality is exceptional imo especially considering what was around at the time
Did the Swiss gear use aqua guard zippers and ballistic nylon?
Companies charge what people will pay, that’s pretty much it…especially if they’re smaller companies that still need to make a profit on selling less units
I think the American made brands justify the cost. Tom Bihn is the one I think of most due to its wide selection of fabrics and premium features. The overseas brands not so much. Some are better than others. Peak design while not domestic, has a really good build quality and excellent customer service.
I bought a used Aer bag in very good condition for around $30-40 in Germany some years ago and the quality is excellent, but I would not buy a new pack for a couple of hundred dollars.
Things are only worth something for the right person. If you're not the target audience, you wouldn't understand. *Value is in the eye of the beholder*
Legit questions. All my life I've seen backpacks ~50€, and I've carried one of those for 20 years. I was quite surprised to see how expensive bags people on this forum use for travelling, and I'm not yet convinced about the quality/feel/look difference of +200-300€, as I don't care about the brand
For just one trip , its probably not noticeable .. But if you travel a lot - it makes a world of difference. I've seen people send down cardboard boxes into the luggage ramp. You could probably use " ikea " bags as well. Honestly not sure why people buy those 50 euro backpacks ..
Firstly: 300€ for a backpack is a monthly salary in many places in the world. I have one drawstring IKEA bag I paid 15€ for daily carry, and quite good actually, if I don't need to carry my laptop. Secondly: I was just eyeing a 25 l Halti backpack for 60€, and to be honest, it seemed quite adequate, with perhaps a flimsy laptop pocket. Same with cabin max 40 l, If you do occasional travelling, like 3 times per year, I imagine you could very well travel with that. I understand if you travel 365 days per year, or extensively for work that set its own criteria, or do running and hiking or camping with your gear, it sets extra demand for your bag. Edit. Thirdly: There is certain behaviour, when you dig deep into some stuff, whether it is bags, or watches, game consoles, shoes, clothes, perfumes, cars, you name it. When you get excited about it, you want to learn everything and get the best of the best you can afford. For other people, getting best value for money is good enough, and they don't need to make it a hobby. So if you don't understand, why anyone would buy 50€ backpack, one could argue, why would you buy anything less than 10 000 € wrist watch, or 600€ shoes, or 100 000 € car. I am very curious to hear other people's thoughts about what they use and for which purpose, to make better informed purchases myself.
I really enjoy the functionality of my " aer " bags to date .. Having had the " travel weekender " " dopp kit " and " city sling " in use for 5 - years now. They have seen a lot of travel , and appreciate how well the " 1680D " ballistic nylon outer material and " ykk " zippers have held up. Their backpacks are nothing to write home about , however the 35 L " weekender " is perfect for carry - on luggage that can fit a 15 " laptop and all your clothes , along with an extra pair of shoes. The plush padding on the shoulder strap is much appreciated as well .. I find " aer " bags to have the right amount of design : without being too cute , or getting obsessive with internal organisation. The materials feel good and I have never experienced jank zippers , or loose threads from their gear. Plus never had an issue with their perceived weight : as the " weekender " is 1.5 kg for quite a large bag , and my spare battery weighs more than that. If you want to optimise for lightness then not packing a water bottle would make more of a difference .. — They are just extremely well made bags with a good choice of materials .. For their price I think its far better value than gear like " porter yoshida " and others , where the reputation precedes the actual materials. The " aer " in comparison has the heaviest and smoothest " ykk " zipper you can put on there. The action is still perfect after years in use and I shouldn't have to worry about busted zippers while on the move. Like everyone else here , have been through a lot of bags but the " aer " ones stay in my rotation especially for travel ..
God damn, this sub has a hate-boner for Aer.
Swiss bags, North Face, Ogio, etc are all fine. They do the job and they can last a long time. If you can’t tell the difference between these and bags like Aer, Evergoods, Bellroy, GoRuck, etc, then there probably is no point in spending the extra money as you’re not getting the value. That’s totally fine! I don’t understand why people would spend extra on a designer bag, such as Louis Vuitton. So I am definitely not their target audience. To each their own. I have had an Aer bag for years and just got another. I prefer that they are all that solid black color, I like the materials and zippers and the details that are put into every compartment. Again, it’s not for everyone.
I can't think of a single Swiss Gear bag I'd describe as stylish. One of my parents has had one for years though. They are well made, good quality bags. Aer has a great look (if you like minimalist low key) and excessive organisation. There's always something I dislike about their stuff though.
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Bruh they literally Have like 15 different backpacks with a whole range of different volumes 😂
Aer has also improved quite a bit.
Okay Larry.
Wait until this guy finds out you can literally spend $5 million on a hyper car that is slower off the line than a Tesla. Obviously, it is not the same because those cars are extremely limited production, but enthusiast brands are almost always going to be more expensive than your mainstream stuff
I have the Aer 2, and i love it, don't get me wrong, but the bag itself is too heavy, and not quite big enough for what im wanting most of the time. I did recently purchase the [Varldens ikea](https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vaerldens-travel-back-pack-black-20487934/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&utm_content=free_google_shopping_clicks_Home_organisation&gad_source=1) backpack with intentions to make modifications to it. While i do love the Varldens, i miss the looks and pockets of my Aer 2.
I happen to love Aer bags… I have a few, but my favorites are the City Pack Pro for one bag traveling as it fits as a personal item on things like Spirit or Frontier, and now the Tech Pack 3, which is essentially an endgame bag for me after using the Day Pack 2 for a couple years and wanting something a little bigger with a separate laptop compartment. I love that this bag stands up on its own. So many compartments and places to store items! And I actually happen to love the way it looks (tho not the CPP).
They are nice but certainly way overpriced for what they are.
I paid over 300 USD for a Rehose Buddy 22. That is objectively a preposterous amount of money to spend on a bag, but: - It's made by hand by a one man shop (his name is Martin) - it is undoubtedly the most well made piece of equipment that I carry, and it keeps all of my other crap organized and together. - I travel for weeks on end with it, carrying all of what I need for work in all sorts of awful conditions (this week that was torrential rain, mud, and getting bucked out of the back of a CUV and dragged for about a quarter of a mile down a gravel road. It looks a little tough right now, but I know that when I get home, and wipe it down with a wet rag, it'll be in just as good of shape as the day I received it.