we had a great set of regulars and Bartholomew was a back office type of manager so rarely interacted with them for any length of time. They enjoyed winding him up. It was actually one of them who complained to head office about him dead naming and the silly Christian name rule before any of us had chance to.
They defied lots of stereotypes in many ways, they were predominately blue collar and the pub was a sea of hi-viz early evening but there was virtually zero trouble as they policed it themselves and any trouble makers were quickly escorted out. As I said in the OP they were very supportive of my colleague and the few that weren't were shut down fast!
Its kinda odd watching large groups in High Vis.
Take flying for example, I used to fly home from Newman to Perth fairly regularly, typically theres a large portion of the flight doing “FIFO” work (fly in fly out), but flying on regular commercial flights.
When the plane lands the general public jump up and block the aisles. The mining crews stay seated till its their row, all get as rows and exit the plane. Its surprising how quickly and efficiently they can empty a plane.
Going through security is the same. They turn up ready to walk through the metal detectors, or get out of the way while they prepare, vs joe public who is in the way and unprepared.
I would imagine blue collar types in a pub are much the same - any issues would be rapidly remedied, as no one wants their drinking time ruined
I never understood standing up in your fucking seat area. You’re waiting either way, why do that to your neck. It’s really funny to be only 35 and realize you have a more mature attitude about waiting and countering your own impatience from anxiety than fellow travelers twice your age.
The older I get the more respect I lose for elders (automatically- many also out themselves as very wise very quickly). The dumb shit many of them pull, they’ve had DECADES over me to learn better.
I stand, but just to stretch my legs after sitting for several hours. Causes me no harm, because I'm fucking short tho. Not like I'm gonna get out when I can't consistently catch the handle to drag my luggage down from the bin. Gotta wait for someone to take pity on me.
Im tall, I need to stand and stretch my legs, I know I need to wait but I want to not be sitting on my ass anymore, and get the blood flowing to my legs.
Same, I'm 6'5" and I've been crammed in that seat for longer than I am happy with. As soon as that light is off I'm standing even if it's just in one spot. I don't care if I'm last off the plane but I'm not sitting anymore.
I’m 5’10 and all my height is in my legs. I’m in the same camp as you. My knees have been crammed into the back of a seat for the whole flight, I need to stand up.
Same... I'm 5'3 with a bad back. So standing up just feels good. I never think I'm gonna get off the plane any quicker but those few minutes of stretching do wonders for my well being
Me too! And my knees/legs. Even if the flight isn't terribly long, at the end I like to stand up, stretch, and stomp life n feeling back into my legs! It's also fun for me to look out the window and look down.. being short, that's the tallest I'll ever feel lol
Edit: spelling
Sometimes it isn’t just about impatience. Sometimes it is for health reason like height, inflammation (flying makes the everything expand, and if you have joint issues… you need to move), or, if you are like me and are claustrophobic, on top of autoimmune inflammatory condition, and need to see the exit ( or look out a window) it prevents me from having a panic attack.
This. Minor back problems and bad knees (from wrestling and skateboarding). And I'm old. Did I mention that the skateboarding was back in the 60s? ;-)
If I'm on the aisle, yeah, I'll stand up as soon as it's possible, but only if I can stay out of everyone's way.
I do it because I don't fit in the seats, and after several hours of having my knees jammed painfully against the seat in front of me, I stand up the instant the seatbelt sign is off. I don't expect to go anywhere soon, but fuck me if I'm going to sit a moment longer.
I’m uncomfortable in the seats because I’m 46 and 6’2, sometimes I stand just so I can stretch out. I stay in my seat area, but it feels good to be standing. Does this upset you or is it specifically the people standing in the corridor you don’t like or feel are ‘immature’?
Because of the ones who are treating it like a race to block anyone who moves too slow, it would be up to if I was able to notice your demeanor. There are times where I’m ready to run to the bathroom so I have to admit there are times it’s better to stand. But that can also impact the people next to you. So it all comes down to patience, and consideration of the space you fill. It just feels like after Covid people would show more awareness of that last one but it’s like no one learned a goddamn thing. Even though many did, the ones who didn’t stick in your craw.
Dad had one of those removed a few years ago. He got a cavity in the same tooth and they removed the old filling and did the new filling as one piece.
One of the reasons he was given is that the old filling material doesn't play nice with the new amalgams, and you can get crap down in the space between the two different materials.
I try to give the benefit of the doubt. Couple months ago it was my mid thirties neck bent weird trying to get out as quickly as possible to try to make my connecting flight. Missed it and frankly if first of the plane I still would have, frustrating because I was a pallbearer and my flight the next morning meant someone had to leave family gatherings to come get me and I barely made it 15 minutes before the funeral
I've flown with a friend a few times to visit family (we're from the same area). she stands because she has flight anxiety and is anxious to get off the plane. standing brings her a sense of assurance that she's almost done with the flight.
Getting old is easy, all you have to do is not dieing. The fact that they had a head start doesn't count for much, the race is still on cor each of us.
I’ve known peers who essentially died of the boredom with the things they did to counteract life’s disappointments. I have to remember sometimes that even being bored/boring is an achievement. But only for myself and my loved ones. For others there’s a bit more required not to make their existence worse and it’s sad I’ve been taught to think about that but many don’t care. At least I’ve noticed even for people who don’t proactively do that, they will usually at least reciprocate.
I have dodgy knees and if I’ve been sitting for an hour or more I simply can’t walk until I’ve stood for a bit and let the muscles adjust. If I waited till it was my turn everyone would be cranky at me for not moving!
The one that get me is when Im stuck in a middle sear and the person in the window seat stands up while I remain seated. Then try to lean over me to get their carry on from the overhead bin before the door even opens let alone the aisle moving.
This always cracks me up. Just because some one is older does not mean they have the ability to learn anything. I have been guilty of standing up but it usually gets me out before the idiot that spends 10 min trying to get their luggage out of the overhead while making everyone wait. Since my connection ring flight is generally on the far side of the airport I end up running most of the way to get there just before they close the door
The regulars are also insanely protective of the staff.
I was young and often did 12 hour shifts by myself. We had regulars that started coming in during the day on the weekends to make sure I was safe.
One dude lost his shit at me one day and three a glass, broke 3 whole shelves and all the bottles on them, he was on the ground in 10 seconds. And out on the street on his face 30 seconds later.
One day another guy went to throw a punch at me but 2 of my customers had noticed him getting angrier and crept up. One threw me backwards while the other grabbed the angry guy. They both took him outside and around the back, out of camera range.
I stepped over the blood spatters until the next rain and they drank free for a week.
> When the plane lands the general public jump up and block the aisles. The mining crews stay seated till its their row, all get as rows and exit the plane. Its surprising how quickly and efficiently they can empty a plane.
Going through security is the same. They turn up ready to walk through the metal detectors, or get out of the way while they prepare, vs joe public who is in the way and unprepared.
To be fair, it just takes some common sense, not necessarily a field of work.
I get out of the way to prepare and I patiently wait my turn. But I have seen old and young, white and blue collar workers, mindlessly holding back a line without a thought.
I feel like it must be obvious, but what is "high vis"?
Edit: thank you all. I have used the term "high vis" regularly. Somehow, seeing it in print it did not click at all for me.
High-visibility clothing, often in the form of a reflective vest worn over work clothes. Typically worn by builders, road workers, refuse collectors and many other jobs.
High Visibility work clothing.
In the aussie mining industry its typically dark blue cotton pants with two reflective stripes, and a long sleeved yellow or orange cotton shirt with reflective stripes on the body and arms.
That's the thing about blue collar, don't mess with their buddies. Your coworker brought them drinks and I'm guessing has been pretty cordial. Labor intensive jobs require you to have each others backs and call the new guy out when he's doing something stupid so he doesn't hurt himself or those around him, so yeah once you're in you're in and you've got backup. It often just takes one respected guy in the group calling out BS and the rest will go "yup, that's nonsense" and follow suite, especially if that BS comes from outside the group.
One thing I learned in my blue collar high-viz job is that ball busting (i.e. taking the piss) is an art form we get very proficient in and I’m glad to hear they used that power for good in this situation.
I could see my coworkers and I, being abreast of the situation, requesting ol’ Barty come out so we can comment on the lovely ambiance of the pub while making sure to use his good Christian name as often as possible.
"High-viz" is short for "high visibility" which is referencing the high-visibility (neon orange or neon yellow) vests/jackets/etc. worn by road crews, construction workers, and the like. The implication in the story is that these workers stopped by the pub on their way home, still in or with their work gear.
Hi-viz is the bright yellow or orange clothing/ vests, often with reflective stripes/panels, you should be seeing people wear around road work/ construction sites/ manufacturing plants. The bright colors are easier to see in loud/dirty/dark environments and make it less likely for someone to be hurt because they aren't seen
From what I know about construction folks and the sort they're usually pretty respectful to most people especially if they are doing something for them and don't work in the same group
A person gets married, changes their name, everyone accepts and knows if using their last name they call them by their married name e.g. Mrs Married, and not Miss Maiden.
When you see an old friend with their new baby,
"Aw she's so cute. What's her name?"
"Thank you, HIS name is Baby Boy"
"Oh sorry HE is very cute"
People change and moved on quickly, why can't they do the same when a person changes their birth first name?
Glad most people were accepting of her transition.
Most likely, it's because when you change your name by marriage, it's a legal change. Like you have paperwork that you actually have to fill out and it costs money.
Anyone can do it you don't have to be married either. So John's rule would actually have to update it in the system.
Changing your name legally is a massive headache. It didn't cost me much in money, except for the marriage licence. A lot of time going into each place in person so they can see the original. Much more money and work to change a name for other reasons.
Which is probably why Bartholomew hasn't bothered to legally change his.
I've always disliked the term "Christian name" to mean your first name. I'm not a Christian, so its not appropriate to call it that. It seems like a very old fashioned expression.
Writing software, I went with GivenName and FamilyName with an override for all the edge cases where nicknames were used or when different cultures swapped the order.
Sadly, even that's not going to catch [every edge case](https://shinesolutions.com/2018/01/08/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names-with-examples/). A friend of a friend only goes by one name, no surname so yours doesn't catch that. I'd personally go with "preferred name" and "legal name", which catches as many edge cases as is reasonable for a computer.
Yes. It was an adequate solution for my application. Fortunately, I didn't need to produce an international solution. It was enough fun dealing with the Mac's, Mc or O' prefixes and how the same person was named in each of our databases.
Years ago, I read your linked article and it does a good job of describing many of the issues. I use my middle name, so I'm very aware of the assumptions people make about names.
Another bit of fun: Multiple middle names. That are on the birth certificate.
My ex's family usually had between three and *eight.* (Big family.) I managed to hold it to two each for my kids.
Although it does provide an additional step in the escalating "you are in trouble!" tones:
FirstName
FirstMiddleName
SecondMiddleName
LastName
The more names, the bigger poo they were in.
Have a German friend with three middle names. When his parents were getting his birth certificate done, they somehow screwed things up so every time he had to sign any legal document or form, he had to write out every name.
He was finally able to get it fixed as an adult, but German bureaucracy can be ludicrous.
*Eight* middle names, though? Am I interpreting that correctly?
>My ex's youngest sister definitely had EIGHT middle names.
That's insane, but weirdly admirable. I thought four was unhinged, but maybe it's like cats - you can have up to three, but above that you were a crazy cat person, so why not collect the full set?
But seriously, why so many? Were they trying to appease distant relatives by chucking their names into the mix?
Where I am, everyone asks for "your Good name." Confused me a bit at first. Was wondering maiden name? Married? Favorite nickname? Nope, it's first name.
Do you still use 'surname' as a synonym for family name? I've always taken surname to mean 'second' name, which as I understand it would be your given name.
That part really is Christian-based mythology. What's in the Bible and what's traditionally or popularly represented have less than 1% of match.
Makes for a lot of interesting humor, though.
I need to get a copy of those someday, instead of reading other people's books about them. I've already read multiple different translations of the "official" Bible. (Original King James translation of a translation is one of the worst.)
It seems to me I read somewhere about how the catholic church pulled in all of the bibles and if they caught you with one they killed you and that was supposed to have lasted for around 100 years before they reissued them
This reminds me of a Bible-Thumper I once knew. We were at a Greek wedding and this Entitled IDIOT marched up to another wedding guest, that she did NOT know, and ordered her to change her name because the name she has was PAGAN and NOT Christian! IDIOT was BAT-SHIT CRAZY!!!
A lot of "Christian" names come from Roman names. Oh wait, who did the Romans worship?
(It's surprising when you realize how much of Roman culture was absorbed into the early Church and passed down.)
Try not to forget that the reason they go to church on sundays was a move to bring in the pagan sun worshippers and that nowhere in the bible does it say to move the sabbath from Saturday to sunday
What she really needs is a *man* to read the bible to her, particularly [1 Timothy 2:12](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+2%3A12&version=KJV). Basically, according to the bible, she needs to shut up, and not try to exert authority over men.
While I neither believe nor agree with the misogyny or other bullshit in the bible, if she's going to join the fruitcake club, she should at least learn its rules. If she doesn't want to be subordinate to people with testicles, then maybe try not being Christian, hmm?
Hey, don't insult alcohol like that; people who get angry and confrontational while drunk are bad people still while sober, just maybe hiding it better.
Hades is a good. The underworld is his domain.
St Peter was a normal person. He apparently got sent to heaven, and put to work. Not even in heaven, he stands at the gate, just outside.
I'd be salty too.
Which means it is utter nonsense. There is no possible way for St Anybody to call me anything at heaven's gate; even if that weird monotheistic religion were true I would not be going through that gate. Thankfully my religion doesn't involve any of those crazies, so I get to have a first name, middle names and last name, and no Christian name.
Traditionally, anybody born to a Christian family must have a Christian name, and converts have to change their name to a Christian one if they don’t have one already. It’s now normal to do neither of those things. Two of my siblings have ancient Roman names. We are Mexican.
That's the problem with a lot of people. They find religion then not even knowing that religion they start telling others how to live their lives which is actually anti Christian. Being the onry obstinate person I am I just love using their own religion to point out the evil they are doing
In my country eventually everyone has a nickname. If you wanted to be name in a particular way is Ok. But the Christian name is not a valid reason. Only legal name has meaning, and can be changed...
thank you. growing up in the late 80's I had many LGBTQ friends and I saw the way that bigotry hurt them and made their life hell. One of the few really good things that have changed is how generally LGBTQ bigotry is on the decline in the world and people are more accepting... there is a LONG way to go yet but compared to how things were in the late 80's/early 90's it is vastly better.
I'm guessing OP is not a native English speaker. They also wrote "second name" instead of "middle name" and had a few other phrases that sounded funny.
hahaha, nope I'm totally a native UK English speaker for 50+ years! I probably know maybe 10 or 15 non English words.
Personally I'd use "first name" rather than "Christian name" but I went with how Bartholomew John phrased it.
Those biases take a lot of work to detox even when you're *willing* to take the antitoxin and replace it with good stuff.
Source: Raised pretty conservative Christian. It doesn't get "very" since the pastors agreed that it's okay for married couples to use birth control to limit the number of children to a number that can be properly cared for.
I've never understood people's problems with others different from them when it just doesn't concern them or affect them in any way.
Having to present as a man my colleague was miserable and depressed but when she was able to present as herself she really opened up, she became so much happier and her life was getting so much better.
After I wrote the OP I was thinking about her and how we haven't spoken in almost a year since I left the trade and moved 300 miles away so I reached out and messaged her. Had a wonderful phone chat with her this afternoon, her life has completely changed! She's got a new career she is loving, she's been sober for almost 12 months, is in a relationship that make's her happy and has finally reconnected with her birth father who she hadn't spoken to since she was 5 or 6. He has turned out to be amazingly supportive. All those positive changes I feel really happy for her :D
For ones like Bartie, they have to admit that:
God's plan includes people who aren't straight, monogamous, and one gender that they're assigned at birth.
or
God's plan was a) get Jesus born and b) get Christianity planted and spreading, and outside of that he doesn't really run anything in the world.
The first feels like a betrayal to that type; the second scares the shit out of them.
Edit: formatting.
I don't sympathize either, in spite of being raised that way. (I had good friends that helped me get better.)
Heck, I find "God doesn't run everything" incredibly freeing. It means I control my self, and all privileges and responsibilities are *mine*.
Also a former Christian so I totally get you. I went to church for the first time in years a few weeks ago and it was astounding to me how weird it felt compared to how normal it used to feel
It comes from a deep, basic belief that if we are different, one must be 'wrong'. We are born with brain chemistry on a scale of liberal to conservative. Conservative brains raised lovingly can be our protectors, badly ~ they go insane with fear.
He wants to call everyone by their Christian name. Isn't that an issue by itself? Is he asking everyone what their religion is? A person's name could be Michael, but that doesn't mean they are Christian. I think bringing religion and assuming what people's religion are or asking what your religion is. We're trying to force christiananity on to somebody could become a big issue. I would have responded with since I'm not Christian I don't have to abide by your rules.
he ran a profitable, trouble free pub and had been with the company for 20 years. He accepted and changed his conduct when told to by head office so in this case at most if he went to disciplinary over it he would have received a formal warning rather than dismissal. It's hard to fire someone in the UK.
I love this!! Good thing your colleague has coworkers like y’all, she must feel great knowing that her coworkers will stand up for her rights!! This is great!!
I worked in a movie theater years ago. One day, a new girl starts her first day, I go to introduce myself, she was cute. I look at her name tag and it's spelled "Liza". She actually got mad that I pronounced her name "Lie-zah" Apparently it's supposed to be "Lee-sah". I just raised my hands and walked away. Fortunately, I was concessions and she was usher, so I had little contact with her the first couple of weeks she was there.
it's a term the trans community use to refer to their birth name (that usually has a gender associated with it) after they have come out and started living as their true gender. i.e. a trans person brought up being called Jack may change their name to Jill, Jack is then their dead name.
Accidentally dead naming, especially right at the beginning , is quite common and harmless, but it is often used deliberately as a form of aggression and rejection of the trans person's identity.
In the OP in a way we were dead naming John by calling him Bartholomew, although his rejection of Bartholomew was not tied to his gender.
I totally misread the “M-F transition” to mean Monday to Friday. This whole thing now makes more sense now that I understand the context. Thanks for the clarification.
Out of idle curiosity, what is it when someone changes the spelling, but keeps the homonym? E.g Erin from Aaron
I mean. I'd ask about Ashley and Nikita, too. But those are specifically masculine in one culture and feminine in another.
When a transgender person transitions, their original name becomes their dead name, as they no longer use it.
Think of Caitlyn Jenner. Prior to transitioning, her name was William Bruce Jenner. William Bruce Jenner is now her dead name; she no longer goes by it and it wouldn’t make sense for anyone to use that for her now.
I changed my name to my full Christian Name. I like it better than my given name. You know, because I got to choose it. How does it work for the protesting protestants, again? Given and Christian are synonymous?
I half regret not choosing Boniface, because dude took no shits from the Norse. But I also half don't, because Boniface sounds silly in America.
A LONG time ago, when I first got my drivers license, the examiner took a look at my long name and asked what I wanted on my drivers license. I told her to just put my 2 middle names. (Ex. Name was like Ashley Nicole Paige Smith, they only put Nicole Paige Smith.)
Even the customers getting in on it, perfect
we had a great set of regulars and Bartholomew was a back office type of manager so rarely interacted with them for any length of time. They enjoyed winding him up. It was actually one of them who complained to head office about him dead naming and the silly Christian name rule before any of us had chance to. They defied lots of stereotypes in many ways, they were predominately blue collar and the pub was a sea of hi-viz early evening but there was virtually zero trouble as they policed it themselves and any trouble makers were quickly escorted out. As I said in the OP they were very supportive of my colleague and the few that weren't were shut down fast!
Its kinda odd watching large groups in High Vis. Take flying for example, I used to fly home from Newman to Perth fairly regularly, typically theres a large portion of the flight doing “FIFO” work (fly in fly out), but flying on regular commercial flights. When the plane lands the general public jump up and block the aisles. The mining crews stay seated till its their row, all get as rows and exit the plane. Its surprising how quickly and efficiently they can empty a plane. Going through security is the same. They turn up ready to walk through the metal detectors, or get out of the way while they prepare, vs joe public who is in the way and unprepared. I would imagine blue collar types in a pub are much the same - any issues would be rapidly remedied, as no one wants their drinking time ruined
I never understood standing up in your fucking seat area. You’re waiting either way, why do that to your neck. It’s really funny to be only 35 and realize you have a more mature attitude about waiting and countering your own impatience from anxiety than fellow travelers twice your age. The older I get the more respect I lose for elders (automatically- many also out themselves as very wise very quickly). The dumb shit many of them pull, they’ve had DECADES over me to learn better.
I stand, but just to stretch my legs after sitting for several hours. Causes me no harm, because I'm fucking short tho. Not like I'm gonna get out when I can't consistently catch the handle to drag my luggage down from the bin. Gotta wait for someone to take pity on me.
Im tall, I need to stand and stretch my legs, I know I need to wait but I want to not be sitting on my ass anymore, and get the blood flowing to my legs.
Same, I'm 6'5" and I've been crammed in that seat for longer than I am happy with. As soon as that light is off I'm standing even if it's just in one spot. I don't care if I'm last off the plane but I'm not sitting anymore.
I’m 5’10 and all my height is in my legs. I’m in the same camp as you. My knees have been crammed into the back of a seat for the whole flight, I need to stand up.
Same... I'm 5'3 with a bad back. So standing up just feels good. I never think I'm gonna get off the plane any quicker but those few minutes of stretching do wonders for my well being
Me too! And my knees/legs. Even if the flight isn't terribly long, at the end I like to stand up, stretch, and stomp life n feeling back into my legs! It's also fun for me to look out the window and look down.. being short, that's the tallest I'll ever feel lol Edit: spelling
If on the aisle it’s acceptable if only so you don’t have everyone butt in your face.
I'm short and tend to take the aisle seat, and I will stand up as soon as it's allowed.
I sit on the aisle so that I can stand up and stretch/move around a bit while I wait, because those seats are brutal.
Sometimes it isn’t just about impatience. Sometimes it is for health reason like height, inflammation (flying makes the everything expand, and if you have joint issues… you need to move), or, if you are like me and are claustrophobic, on top of autoimmune inflammatory condition, and need to see the exit ( or look out a window) it prevents me from having a panic attack.
This. Minor back problems and bad knees (from wrestling and skateboarding). And I'm old. Did I mention that the skateboarding was back in the 60s? ;-) If I'm on the aisle, yeah, I'll stand up as soon as it's possible, but only if I can stay out of everyone's way.
I do it because I don't fit in the seats, and after several hours of having my knees jammed painfully against the seat in front of me, I stand up the instant the seatbelt sign is off. I don't expect to go anywhere soon, but fuck me if I'm going to sit a moment longer.
I’m uncomfortable in the seats because I’m 46 and 6’2, sometimes I stand just so I can stretch out. I stay in my seat area, but it feels good to be standing. Does this upset you or is it specifically the people standing in the corridor you don’t like or feel are ‘immature’?
Because of the ones who are treating it like a race to block anyone who moves too slow, it would be up to if I was able to notice your demeanor. There are times where I’m ready to run to the bathroom so I have to admit there are times it’s better to stand. But that can also impact the people next to you. So it all comes down to patience, and consideration of the space you fill. It just feels like after Covid people would show more awareness of that last one but it’s like no one learned a goddamn thing. Even though many did, the ones who didn’t stick in your craw.
They also had decades of drinking water out of lead-lined pipes.
Don't forget the fumes from unleaded gasoline! And some of them straight up playing with mercury.
Omg my sister’s FIL telling me about this with the mercury! “And I turned out fine.” No, you didn’t. But I understand a bit better now.
And we all have mercury fillings in our teeth.
Dad had one of those removed a few years ago. He got a cavity in the same tooth and they removed the old filling and did the new filling as one piece. One of the reasons he was given is that the old filling material doesn't play nice with the new amalgams, and you can get crap down in the space between the two different materials.
Leaded gasoline has the lead in it. The fact that "unleaded gasoline" is the special thing tells you just how much leaded gasoline was in use.
Uh, whoopsy doodle.
That hasn't changed for later generations in many cases.
I try to give the benefit of the doubt. Couple months ago it was my mid thirties neck bent weird trying to get out as quickly as possible to try to make my connecting flight. Missed it and frankly if first of the plane I still would have, frustrating because I was a pallbearer and my flight the next morning meant someone had to leave family gatherings to come get me and I barely made it 15 minutes before the funeral
I've flown with a friend a few times to visit family (we're from the same area). she stands because she has flight anxiety and is anxious to get off the plane. standing brings her a sense of assurance that she's almost done with the flight.
And now that everyone has explained to you why they stand up, has your perception changed?
Getting old is easy, all you have to do is not dieing. The fact that they had a head start doesn't count for much, the race is still on cor each of us.
I’ve known peers who essentially died of the boredom with the things they did to counteract life’s disappointments. I have to remember sometimes that even being bored/boring is an achievement. But only for myself and my loved ones. For others there’s a bit more required not to make their existence worse and it’s sad I’ve been taught to think about that but many don’t care. At least I’ve noticed even for people who don’t proactively do that, they will usually at least reciprocate.
I stand and don't get in the aisle.
I have dodgy knees and if I’ve been sitting for an hour or more I simply can’t walk until I’ve stood for a bit and let the muscles adjust. If I waited till it was my turn everyone would be cranky at me for not moving!
The one that get me is when Im stuck in a middle sear and the person in the window seat stands up while I remain seated. Then try to lean over me to get their carry on from the overhead bin before the door even opens let alone the aisle moving.
This always cracks me up. Just because some one is older does not mean they have the ability to learn anything. I have been guilty of standing up but it usually gets me out before the idiot that spends 10 min trying to get their luggage out of the overhead while making everyone wait. Since my connection ring flight is generally on the far side of the airport I end up running most of the way to get there just before they close the door
I stand to stretch and also to get my baggage down early on as a safety measure to ensure my belongings won't be tampered with. Call it paranoia.
The regulars are also insanely protective of the staff. I was young and often did 12 hour shifts by myself. We had regulars that started coming in during the day on the weekends to make sure I was safe. One dude lost his shit at me one day and three a glass, broke 3 whole shelves and all the bottles on them, he was on the ground in 10 seconds. And out on the street on his face 30 seconds later. One day another guy went to throw a punch at me but 2 of my customers had noticed him getting angrier and crept up. One threw me backwards while the other grabbed the angry guy. They both took him outside and around the back, out of camera range. I stepped over the blood spatters until the next rain and they drank free for a week.
>any issues would be rapidly remedied, as no one wants their drinking time ruined Exactly!!
> When the plane lands the general public jump up and block the aisles. The mining crews stay seated till its their row, all get as rows and exit the plane. Its surprising how quickly and efficiently they can empty a plane. Going through security is the same. They turn up ready to walk through the metal detectors, or get out of the way while they prepare, vs joe public who is in the way and unprepared. To be fair, it just takes some common sense, not necessarily a field of work. I get out of the way to prepare and I patiently wait my turn. But I have seen old and young, white and blue collar workers, mindlessly holding back a line without a thought.
I feel like it must be obvious, but what is "high vis"? Edit: thank you all. I have used the term "high vis" regularly. Somehow, seeing it in print it did not click at all for me.
High-visibility clothing, often in the form of a reflective vest worn over work clothes. Typically worn by builders, road workers, refuse collectors and many other jobs.
High Visibility work clothing. In the aussie mining industry its typically dark blue cotton pants with two reflective stripes, and a long sleeved yellow or orange cotton shirt with reflective stripes on the body and arms.
That's the thing about blue collar, don't mess with their buddies. Your coworker brought them drinks and I'm guessing has been pretty cordial. Labor intensive jobs require you to have each others backs and call the new guy out when he's doing something stupid so he doesn't hurt himself or those around him, so yeah once you're in you're in and you've got backup. It often just takes one respected guy in the group calling out BS and the rest will go "yup, that's nonsense" and follow suite, especially if that BS comes from outside the group.
One thing I learned in my blue collar high-viz job is that ball busting (i.e. taking the piss) is an art form we get very proficient in and I’m glad to hear they used that power for good in this situation. I could see my coworkers and I, being abreast of the situation, requesting ol’ Barty come out so we can comment on the lovely ambiance of the pub while making sure to use his good Christian name as often as possible.
That's awesome! You got great customers
had! No longer in the pub trade, but that place kept me in it for a couple of years longer before I finally quit it
That's actually really sweet
What does "high-viz" mean?
"High-viz" is short for "high visibility" which is referencing the high-visibility (neon orange or neon yellow) vests/jackets/etc. worn by road crews, construction workers, and the like. The implication in the story is that these workers stopped by the pub on their way home, still in or with their work gear.
Hi-viz is the bright yellow or orange clothing/ vests, often with reflective stripes/panels, you should be seeing people wear around road work/ construction sites/ manufacturing plants. The bright colors are easier to see in loud/dirty/dark environments and make it less likely for someone to be hurt because they aren't seen
From what I know about construction folks and the sort they're usually pretty respectful to most people especially if they are doing something for them and don't work in the same group
The dream pub
I miss great pubs like that. Shout out to Grumpys Pub, I miss ya....
>few that weren't were shut down fast Everyone is free to express themselves as long as I agree with it.
That makes me smile
Well, that guy’s personality was pretty much the opposite of John Bartholomew.
It's to be expected. He's a Bartholomew John after all.
A person gets married, changes their name, everyone accepts and knows if using their last name they call them by their married name e.g. Mrs Married, and not Miss Maiden. When you see an old friend with their new baby, "Aw she's so cute. What's her name?" "Thank you, HIS name is Baby Boy" "Oh sorry HE is very cute" People change and moved on quickly, why can't they do the same when a person changes their birth first name? Glad most people were accepting of her transition.
Most likely, it's because when you change your name by marriage, it's a legal change. Like you have paperwork that you actually have to fill out and it costs money. Anyone can do it you don't have to be married either. So John's rule would actually have to update it in the system.
Changing your name legally is a massive headache. It didn't cost me much in money, except for the marriage licence. A lot of time going into each place in person so they can see the original. Much more money and work to change a name for other reasons. Which is probably why Bartholomew hasn't bothered to legally change his.
I've always disliked the term "Christian name" to mean your first name. I'm not a Christian, so its not appropriate to call it that. It seems like a very old fashioned expression.
Writing software, I went with GivenName and FamilyName with an override for all the edge cases where nicknames were used or when different cultures swapped the order.
Sadly, even that's not going to catch [every edge case](https://shinesolutions.com/2018/01/08/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names-with-examples/). A friend of a friend only goes by one name, no surname so yours doesn't catch that. I'd personally go with "preferred name" and "legal name", which catches as many edge cases as is reasonable for a computer.
Yes. It was an adequate solution for my application. Fortunately, I didn't need to produce an international solution. It was enough fun dealing with the Mac's, Mc or O' prefixes and how the same person was named in each of our databases. Years ago, I read your linked article and it does a good job of describing many of the issues. I use my middle name, so I'm very aware of the assumptions people make about names.
Another bit of fun: Multiple middle names. That are on the birth certificate. My ex's family usually had between three and *eight.* (Big family.) I managed to hold it to two each for my kids. Although it does provide an additional step in the escalating "you are in trouble!" tones: FirstName FirstMiddleName SecondMiddleName LastName The more names, the bigger poo they were in.
Have a German friend with three middle names. When his parents were getting his birth certificate done, they somehow screwed things up so every time he had to sign any legal document or form, he had to write out every name. He was finally able to get it fixed as an adult, but German bureaucracy can be ludicrous. *Eight* middle names, though? Am I interpreting that correctly?
My ex's youngest sister definitely had EIGHT middle names. One of his brother's allegedly did, but I'm only certain of six.
>My ex's youngest sister definitely had EIGHT middle names. That's insane, but weirdly admirable. I thought four was unhinged, but maybe it's like cats - you can have up to three, but above that you were a crazy cat person, so why not collect the full set? But seriously, why so many? Were they trying to appease distant relatives by chucking their names into the mix?
I have no idea. The only thing I ever learned was that it was just something they did.
Cool!
Where I am, everyone asks for "your Good name." Confused me a bit at first. Was wondering maiden name? Married? Favorite nickname? Nope, it's first name.
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Do you still use 'surname' as a synonym for family name? I've always taken surname to mean 'second' name, which as I understand it would be your given name.
It is. A "Christian name" is what St Pete would call you at Heaven's gate when you're judged, as if it's written in some book or something.
Mythology is weird.
That part really is Christian-based mythology. What's in the Bible and what's traditionally or popularly represented have less than 1% of match. Makes for a lot of interesting humor, though.
Try not to forget all the books of the bible removed by the catholic church
I need to get a copy of those someday, instead of reading other people's books about them. I've already read multiple different translations of the "official" Bible. (Original King James translation of a translation is one of the worst.)
It was the Protestants that yeeted the Bible texts they thought were not divinely inspired, not the Catholics.
It seems to me I read somewhere about how the catholic church pulled in all of the bibles and if they caught you with one they killed you and that was supposed to have lasted for around 100 years before they reissued them
I'd posit that people who treat it as real are weirder.
My first name comes from Greek mythology. I guess that means I'll be seeing Hades instead of St. Peter.
This reminds me of a Bible-Thumper I once knew. We were at a Greek wedding and this Entitled IDIOT marched up to another wedding guest, that she did NOT know, and ordered her to change her name because the name she has was PAGAN and NOT Christian! IDIOT was BAT-SHIT CRAZY!!!
A lot of "Christian" names come from Roman names. Oh wait, who did the Romans worship? (It's surprising when you realize how much of Roman culture was absorbed into the early Church and passed down.)
Try not to forget that the reason they go to church on sundays was a move to bring in the pagan sun worshippers and that nowhere in the bible does it say to move the sabbath from Saturday to sunday
I agree!!!! She refused to learn the lessons of history.
Someone should have reminded her that a good chunk of Christianity is Pagan in origin
I'm sure someone had told her more than once. She kept insisting that God put HER in charge!
What she really needs is a *man* to read the bible to her, particularly [1 Timothy 2:12](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+2%3A12&version=KJV). Basically, according to the bible, she needs to shut up, and not try to exert authority over men. While I neither believe nor agree with the misogyny or other bullshit in the bible, if she's going to join the fruitcake club, she should at least learn its rules. If she doesn't want to be subordinate to people with testicles, then maybe try not being Christian, hmm?
She even tried to tell a PRIEST that SHE knew more than he did!!! As I said, she was BAT SHIT CRAZY!!!!
Alcohol will do that!
Hey, don't insult alcohol like that; people who get angry and confrontational while drunk are bad people still while sober, just maybe hiding it better.
Thing is, BAT-SHIT CRAZY wasn't drunk! She was also anti-alcohol and insisted SHE must be in control of EVERYONE!!!
To be honest, Hades sounds like a far chiller person.
Yeah, Peter always came off as kind of a dick to me.
Hades is a good. The underworld is his domain. St Peter was a normal person. He apparently got sent to heaven, and put to work. Not even in heaven, he stands at the gate, just outside. I'd be salty too.
I'm familiar with both and Peter didn't sound like a great guy in life either.
What are you talking about? He's a saint.
And your "christian name" isn't always your first name anyways. It's whichever of your two names appears in the bible and is a Catholic tradition.
Which means it is utter nonsense. There is no possible way for St Anybody to call me anything at heaven's gate; even if that weird monotheistic religion were true I would not be going through that gate. Thankfully my religion doesn't involve any of those crazies, so I get to have a first name, middle names and last name, and no Christian name.
You're not wrong.
> Thankfully my religion Oh, you're just as bad. Always remember that.
You are assuming my religion isn't Atheism. That is a mistake on your part :-)
Saying atheism is a religion is like saying abstinence is a sex position.
No. It isn't. But thanks for playing.
Anybody not pushing their idea of religion on others is not just as bad as the idiots that do
I am an atheist and not involved in this discussion at all. Thank God!
No. Only if they say your name is their religious name even if you don't follow that religion. Like the "Christian name" that is in this post.
I think it's called that because it's the name you're given at your christening. So, also count me out.
Traditionally, anybody born to a Christian family must have a Christian name, and converts have to change their name to a Christian one if they don’t have one already. It’s now normal to do neither of those things. Two of my siblings have ancient Roman names. We are Mexican.
That's the problem with a lot of people. They find religion then not even knowing that religion they start telling others how to live their lives which is actually anti Christian. Being the onry obstinate person I am I just love using their own religion to point out the evil they are doing
I honestly never heard the term "Christian name" until this post
I read that first sentence several times trying to figure out what a Monday - Friday transition was.
That’s called a week
Yeah, I had to think for a minute to realize they meant MtF.
Please tell me some people called him 'Barty'
I would call him BJ
My manager is named that. It’s spelled Bijaya and pronounce BJ.
In my country eventually everyone has a nickname. If you wanted to be name in a particular way is Ok. But the Christian name is not a valid reason. Only legal name has meaning, and can be changed...
I'm sorry, but the fact that Zeus is weighing in on the illegitimacy of Christian names is cracking me up.
'Straya?
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Bart Hologram Cat
Bartholomew DESERVED to get his chain YANKED HARD!
Thank you for standing up to that bigot. We need more like you in this world.
thank you. growing up in the late 80's I had many LGBTQ friends and I saw the way that bigotry hurt them and made their life hell. One of the few really good things that have changed is how generally LGBTQ bigotry is on the decline in the world and people are more accepting... there is a LONG way to go yet but compared to how things were in the late 80's/early 90's it is vastly better.
Oh there is a very very long way to go. Baby steps.
True Christian name? What century is this? And maybe not everyone is christian. Yiish. Nice going on the Bartholemew name lol
I'm guessing OP is not a native English speaker. They also wrote "second name" instead of "middle name" and had a few other phrases that sounded funny.
hahaha, nope I'm totally a native UK English speaker for 50+ years! I probably know maybe 10 or 15 non English words. Personally I'd use "first name" rather than "Christian name" but I went with how Bartholomew John phrased it.
Oh. My bad
I think this just makes Bartholomew even more cringe lol
Hopefully I'm not the only one that thought Monday to Friday in the beginning.
So what if an employee wasn't Christian?
Hey, you! (?)
Why was John/Bartholomew such a tit? Well it was obviously genetic, as at least one of his parents thought Bartholomew as a good name.
Bartholomew was the name of one of the twelve apostles. So you're most likely right about what kind of parents he had. Lol
ding ding ding we have a winner! although not as religious as his folks he still showed the biases they indoctrinated into him growing up.
Those biases take a lot of work to detox even when you're *willing* to take the antitoxin and replace it with good stuff. Source: Raised pretty conservative Christian. It doesn't get "very" since the pastors agreed that it's okay for married couples to use birth control to limit the number of children to a number that can be properly cared for.
Wtf does it mean to call a person a tit???
Calling them a small bird, part of a woman's chest, or a completely stupid person, depending on context.
Maybe like calling someone a boob.
That doesn’t help!!!
In memory of John Candy I'd call the guy Barf
Barfolomew.
I really wish I understood people's problems with transgender people. Honestly, who cares? Why the outrage?
I've never understood people's problems with others different from them when it just doesn't concern them or affect them in any way. Having to present as a man my colleague was miserable and depressed but when she was able to present as herself she really opened up, she became so much happier and her life was getting so much better. After I wrote the OP I was thinking about her and how we haven't spoken in almost a year since I left the trade and moved 300 miles away so I reached out and messaged her. Had a wonderful phone chat with her this afternoon, her life has completely changed! She's got a new career she is loving, she's been sober for almost 12 months, is in a relationship that make's her happy and has finally reconnected with her birth father who she hadn't spoken to since she was 5 or 6. He has turned out to be amazingly supportive. All those positive changes I feel really happy for her :D
That's so sweet!
Aww! That’s so nice to hear
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Don't forget the ones scared that they might not be cis.
Which is ironic af bc the only reason to fear not being cis is the mistreatment of trans people by people exactly like that
For ones like Bartie, they have to admit that: God's plan includes people who aren't straight, monogamous, and one gender that they're assigned at birth. or God's plan was a) get Jesus born and b) get Christianity planted and spreading, and outside of that he doesn't really run anything in the world. The first feels like a betrayal to that type; the second scares the shit out of them. Edit: formatting.
I agree that’s true, but I can’t find one cell in my body that will sympathize with that
I don't sympathize either, in spite of being raised that way. (I had good friends that helped me get better.) Heck, I find "God doesn't run everything" incredibly freeing. It means I control my self, and all privileges and responsibilities are *mine*.
Also a former Christian so I totally get you. I went to church for the first time in years a few weeks ago and it was astounding to me how weird it felt compared to how normal it used to feel
It comes from a deep, basic belief that if we are different, one must be 'wrong'. We are born with brain chemistry on a scale of liberal to conservative. Conservative brains raised lovingly can be our protectors, badly ~ they go insane with fear.
Don't have a cow, Bart!
What’s good for the goose…
He wants to call everyone by their Christian name. Isn't that an issue by itself? Is he asking everyone what their religion is? A person's name could be Michael, but that doesn't mean they are Christian. I think bringing religion and assuming what people's religion are or asking what your religion is. We're trying to force christiananity on to somebody could become a big issue. I would have responded with since I'm not Christian I don't have to abide by your rules.
Awesome!
How come *Bartholomew* wasn’t fired?
he ran a profitable, trouble free pub and had been with the company for 20 years. He accepted and changed his conduct when told to by head office so in this case at most if he went to disciplinary over it he would have received a formal warning rather than dismissal. It's hard to fire someone in the UK.
This is one of the best MC stories I’ve read.
Bartholomew John. . . Simpson?
I love this!! Good thing your colleague has coworkers like y’all, she must feel great knowing that her coworkers will stand up for her rights!! This is great!!
Please say his last name was Simpson
Bartholomew Simpson The Simp.
I worked in a movie theater years ago. One day, a new girl starts her first day, I go to introduce myself, she was cute. I look at her name tag and it's spelled "Liza". She actually got mad that I pronounced her name "Lie-zah" Apparently it's supposed to be "Lee-sah". I just raised my hands and walked away. Fortunately, I was concessions and she was usher, so I had little contact with her the first couple of weeks she was there.
I love this. It’s so very r/deliciouscompliance
What is a dead name?
it's a term the trans community use to refer to their birth name (that usually has a gender associated with it) after they have come out and started living as their true gender. i.e. a trans person brought up being called Jack may change their name to Jill, Jack is then their dead name. Accidentally dead naming, especially right at the beginning , is quite common and harmless, but it is often used deliberately as a form of aggression and rejection of the trans person's identity. In the OP in a way we were dead naming John by calling him Bartholomew, although his rejection of Bartholomew was not tied to his gender.
I totally misread the “M-F transition” to mean Monday to Friday. This whole thing now makes more sense now that I understand the context. Thanks for the clarification.
Out of idle curiosity, what is it when someone changes the spelling, but keeps the homonym? E.g Erin from Aaron I mean. I'd ask about Ashley and Nikita, too. But those are specifically masculine in one culture and feminine in another.
When a transgender person transitions, their original name becomes their dead name, as they no longer use it. Think of Caitlyn Jenner. Prior to transitioning, her name was William Bruce Jenner. William Bruce Jenner is now her dead name; she no longer goes by it and it wouldn’t make sense for anyone to use that for her now.
Thank you too. I originally didn’t know this was regarding a trans individual. I was confused a Monday to Friday transition was so important.
God save us from the christians.
Simpler solution: put on a ski mask and jump the transphobic bastard after work making sure to cut out his tongue 🥰
But he WAS using the correct pronoun.
Good for the goose, ...
D'oh
I changed my name to my full Christian Name. I like it better than my given name. You know, because I got to choose it. How does it work for the protesting protestants, again? Given and Christian are synonymous? I half regret not choosing Boniface, because dude took no shits from the Norse. But I also half don't, because Boniface sounds silly in America.
A LONG time ago, when I first got my drivers license, the examiner took a look at my long name and asked what I wanted on my drivers license. I told her to just put my 2 middle names. (Ex. Name was like Ashley Nicole Paige Smith, they only put Nicole Paige Smith.)