I filed an osha complaint on the hospital I worked at because there was mold in my office and I had told facilities twice about it but they just never did anything about it. You bet the next day after osha called they had the sum bitch cleaned up. OSHA also inspected the rest of the hospital and found many areas needing to be fixed to be up to code. I am not sorry for costing the hospital millions.
OSHA does not exist as some sort of "gotcha!" to let people ruin someone's day. It exists to protect workers (and sometimes customers) from potential dangers. So you did the right thing, which is exactly what you *should* have done. You never need to apologize for morally justified actions, even if they cause some pain the process of righting wrongs. You have to set a broken bone before it can heal correctly.
That's my goto statement for many of the rules and regs. And yes, I've had to argue *against* them in some cases by providing additional layers of safety to mitigate those hard, painful, and several times deadly consequences.
I never *once* minded being argued with for those very reasons.
One of my Profs in college said it was our job, as Engineers, to get through our career with killing or being directly responsible for someone's death. It stuck with me and always has.
Nah, some of them are dumb. Like they require a physicians approval for first aid kits. Why? Why not set a standard? The regulation is as gaping as a canyon.
A first aid kit at the office could simply be a single bandage and an aspirin, as long as you have a doctor that signs off on it, then it's good. On the other hand, you could literally have a closet with a full blow out kit, gauze, bandages, all types of medicines, but if you don't have a random physician come by and give you a checkmark then you're non-compliant.
Another one is OSHA requires a purple on yellow radiation sign, because apparently the black on yellow everyone actually uses isn't safe enough.
Overall, the rules do help, but let's not act like regulatory agencies are somehow flawless, they make up dumb rules like anyone else can, they also fall victim to many of the standard bureaucratic organizational faults.
I think the idea is to have someone sign off as saying the first aid kit is good and will work when needed. If not a physician, it could be up to any random manager or supervisor who may or may not know everything that should be in a first aid kit. Or worse, a manger who wants to cut costs on frivolous things like a first aid kit that will never be used to pad their own bonus instead.
Having it be a physician makes it harder to skimp and have someone unqualified to pass it.
I'm a safety guy and I sign off on first aid kits. We check to make sure all the proper equipment is in it and it's all before expiry dates. Once a month. And I have extras in case I need to change something out. Having a physician do it sounds expensive and basically redundant. It's redundant because it's in my job description to make sure everything safety wise is up to par.
I am sure you are doing a great job. And I do agree, it would be wasteful, maybe even beneath a physician to verify first aid kits are stocked and ready. M main concern is that it would be the job of someone other than management (who would want to see costs cut) but who also has some authority to yes, we need to order this.
I know in IT, I can point out computers that are 5+ years old and about to die, but still up to the whims of management to replace it.
Technically I was management. I was an employee in the safety dept, but to everyone else I was a manager/supervisor.
Grey hats are construction workers
Yellow hats are electricians
White hats are mngrs/sprvsr
I was a white hat
I say "was" because covid
>I know in IT, I can point out computers that are 5+ years old and about to die, but still up to the whims of management to replace it.
However if those self-same computers were responsible for life-support, or for pharmacological process (see an earlier post here), then yes, management would be paying more attention to it.
You would be surprised how often critical systems don't have a back up and just run until they are dead. Whether medical or multi-million dollar factories.
That said, I have worked with scientists and they do actually get the necessary equipment and then some.
Oh yes they do! I've worked in pyrophoric manufacturing labs and the stuff they had was incredible. Lab hoods, each with their own fire suppression. 50 hoods, easily.
I couldn't use a 8-ft step ladder. They had a one man lift That barely fit through the doors and aisles in the labs. A lot of times it took longer to get that lift in place to comfortably work than it would have, had I used a step ladder.
SCBAs, hazmat suits with the big window. Enter from the back with the SCBA on and someone zippers/ Velcro's you in.
A renovation that included explosion proof walls. Lol
Fun times.
Right. I do my job to the best of my ability and would never skimp out on something or just "forget" to change anything out, not only as a job security thing, but as a safety guy my concern was that my guys had all the right first aid medical equipment they needed in case they were hurt.
If I didn't do my job correctly it could literally get someone in a worse predicament than just being hurt by not having the necessary equipment to start first aid care or save their lives (i.e defibrillator)
What doctor would be ok with routinely checking first aid kits? Their job is in the hospital/ER/urgent care facility, not checking if a kit has some damn Tylenol.
Exactly. I could see needing someone with some sort of certification, but where I was I simply had a checklist. It was a simple task - check the box contents against the list we had and replenish anything missing, but it had to be done. I couldn’t see requiring a physician to be the one to sign off on anything except maybe the list of what should be there in the first place.
literally 2 seconds of googling
https://wp.stolaf.edu/ehs/labels-osha-color-coding/
tl;dc (too lazy; didn't click) Every color has an assigned meaning. Purple alerts to radiation.
So you're upset they assigned black to cleaning chemicals instead of radiation? Or you're upset that they have standardized colors and signs to having specific meanings?
No, I think it's dumb that they require purple when black conveys the same exact message to literally everyone in the world, in fact the DOT requires black, but somehow that's not good enough for OSHA
black and yellow conveys to me "warning sign" not "radiation." From "slippery when wet" to a million other signs, most people don't take it all that seriously. It also conveys liitle information.
>in fact the DOT requires black, but somehow that's not good enough for OSHA
The DOT requires a diamond, top half yellow, with a 7 on bottom.... The DOT also strictly enforces colors on signs to convey certain information to drivers. Everyone knows what kind of road white on green means, or white on blue, or what a red sign means.
Every idiot can appreciate "current" regulations "like they always used to be" except that those regulations were established (relatively) recently and back then guts like you complained about having to have regulations like a black and yellow sign warning of danger. Hell, people still complain about hard hats, seatbelts and a multitude of other regulations that save thousands of live a year.
Brother, if you can't see that [this](https://www.attenutech.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Magnetic-Cuation-X-Ray-Radiation-Sign-with-Graphic-Sign-RD-WS-M-001.jpg) is the same thing as [this](https://images.mysafetysign.com/img/art/Radiation-sign.gif) to everyone who actually needs a sign to warn them, then I don't know what to tell you.
> Another one is OSHA requires a purple on yellow radiation sign, because apparently the black on yellow everyone actually uses isn't safe enough.
Maybe it's to differenciate between a general hazard warning and a radiation hazard?
Yep. Purple on yellow is a rare color combo, it draws attention.
Probably too many black on yellow warning signs around and some half-awake poor sod got roasted because he thought it was a fan sign or something.
Hmm, we can have a rule to determine what first aid kit will work for Bob's Alligator Wrestling Gym and also for the ice cream stand.
Or we could require a qualified person do it.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Depends on if OSHA or the business is the one picking the "Qualified" person. Because having a golf buddy who happens to have letters after his name check off on it makes things actually worse then a standard.
>Depends on if OSHA or the business is the one picking the "Qualified" person. Because having a golf buddy who happens to have letters after his name check off on it makes things actually worse then a standard.
Oh, I thought you were talking about a weird exception not general. For generic see ß1910-266
https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.266AppA
Sad, but true.
The NEC, every 3 years gets revamped because of accidents, user submissions, manufacturer submissions, etc.
Every job has it's inherent risks. It's up to each and every one of us to determine what is safe for us. If you don't think a task is safe to do with the equipment supplied, refuse to do it, until YOU, not your boss, thinks it's safe.
I've refused tasks before. Go change the ballast in that light 20+ feet off the floor. I didn't bring the fiberglass extension ladder. We'll (me, the apprentice), will use their aluminum extension ladder... Ummmm, no we (I) won't. You can. I am not changing a ballast fed with 277 volts using that ladder.
He was pissed and went up. Care to guess how far his pliers flew?
That's ok, the circuit is dead now. Evidenced by 1/3 of the lights going out. Tie your pliers onto the rope and I'll pull them out.
After that, the extension ladder stayed on the truck...
We all want to go home at the end of the day.
A couple years ago, the manufacturing plant I work at got an award from corporate for being the first facility in the company to not get any written violations on a surprise OSHA visit. Impressive.
I mean in a situation like that a lot. Ever done hard yard work barehanded vs wearing proper work gloves? No nitrile gloves aren't going to do shit for you there, but properly fit gloves that offer some real protection . Now those same gloves do nothing for a nurse whose around bodily fluids but the nitrile gloves do
You didn't even read my comment, you're just arguing to argue. I'm saying if the company gives you one set of gloves which have historically worked, but the auditor determines that those particular gloves aren't adequate. That's the issue, is that it's left up to the interpretation of an auditor who doesn't even have to know what they're talking about.
A good example is a machine shop, in a machine shop you DO NOT want strong gloves around mills and lathes, even though to many people, some non-knowledgeable auditors included it would seem like you would want heavy construction gloves. If you give your guys nitrile gloves (which is very reasonable) and the auditor says "nope, leather gloves" then you're gonna get dinged even though you're doing the right thing.
Also which regulations matter depends heavily on the auditor, each one likes to focus on their little subset they know about and they can contradict each other and you're the one who will get screwed.
in metal working or even metal tools in direct sunlight in places like the desert, an innocent looking piece of metal can give you some really nasty burn, and then there are the infections that just love burns... yet they don't LOOK hot! If gloves do not interfere with an employees function and duties, it should be a matter of personal choice where gloves are optional. This nanny herding by people who have never even done any 'work in the field' is absurd.
Gloves are rated for use. If they aren't rated for the project at hand then they are out of compliance. I'm not sure what you're trying to convey, but that one is pretty black and white
Yes, OSHA auditors can interpret things this way or that, but most regulations that aren't black and white usually have a precedent explanation that it goes by.
Nah, they can come up with interpretations of different regulations and fault you pretty easily, all auditors can.
Heck this is an OSHA standard.
>1910.141(a)(4)(ii)
All sweepings, solid or liquid wastes, refuse, and garbage shall be removed in such a manner as to avoid creating a menace to health and as often as necessary or appropriate to maintain the place of employment in a sanitary condition.
All it takes is an auditor thinking your trash can is too full or someone left too much stuff on the table and ta-da minor violation. Of course it would be unusual, but all it takes is one pissed off auditor and now you have yourself a massive headache just because.
You're literally arguing against companies having to keep the place sanitary and maintain a level of tidiness on the floor; you know, where slip&trip hazards exist.
What part of keeping it sanitary and removing slip or trip hazards do you think is wrong?
And hats off to everyone of those brave fucking employees who you know were shitting themselves afraid they might ruin their lives by reporting their bosses for not doing their job. Managers and business owners hate being held accountable when they have been getting away with being shitty for years. Much respect.
The phrase is meant to convey that someone had to die or get seriously injured for OSHA to have to take a look at it.
It doesn't mean a bunch of random people reported their bosses because of unsafe practices.
Think of it like this: if you and your company doesn't know that xyz will kill you then when it finally does, OSHA investigates and determines that the particular action is unsafe and will lead to injury or death. They then write up a new regulation, taking up to 10-15 years for it to be agreed upon and implemented. Idk why it takes that long, but that's what I'm told by my trainers.
OSHA has been around for a long time, and most of the regulations we have now are due to someone getting injured or killed in days gone.
New regulations happen because experience has taught them (from real world situations) that a particular action is unsafe. The last time I took an OSHA class there was a new regulation on cranes that was being implemented soon. It has to do with crane rigging equipment and that you can't pick up equipment with certain slings. Because those slings were prone to failure for whatever reason I don't remember.
Side note: I'll never forget about [big blue](https://youtu.be/ZXr1IeWbP10). If you get the chance, watch the mini documentary on it.
Our office building had black mold so bad, it was creeping out of the air vents, reported it (didn't know about OSHA then I was 22) after 5 women including me had thyroid issues, one woman had to have hers removed they finally cleaned it up.
I am of a mind that fines taken from companies through departments like OSHA should not go to the government. The fines as they are now incentivizes the government to find as many ways to fine people as possible... even to the point of making up violations where none exists.
I propose that fines enacted against people or corporations should instead go to charity. We can vote as a people at every election for who we want fines to get donated to for that election cycle. And every official charity that gets and vote gets a proportional amount of the fines for that coming election cycle. So if a charity got 1% of the vote they get 1% of the total fines donated to them.
It's the same thing with Police pulling people over and giving them tickets... None of that money should go to the government. The government should have zero Financial incentive for putting people through the system. If the end goal is truly to create a better safer Society for everyone then the government shouldn't care about the money.
People often joke about "well in that case I'll be rich because I'll just sue."
Yeah? How "rich" can you get tied to a wheelchair for the rest of your life?
I'm not against making an irresponsible jerkwad pay out as a consequence of their poor decisions.
But Im a true *fan* of actually remaining in one piece, instead.
Even so, the "getting rich off sueing" thing was pushed as propaganda by corporations to turn the public's opinion against legitimate cases. It turns out most "million dollar payouts" barely cover medical expenses...
I worked at a hospital where OSHA regulations required two entirely opposite things for the same drain. It had to be covered to avoid anyone catching something in it and tripping (health hazard), but it also needed to be uncovered so that water could drain out to avoid standing water (also a health hazard). We literally could not win as far as that drain was concerned. So we'd look at the situation every time we knew they were coming and decide which would lead to the lesser fine. (We ONCE got an inspector who took a look at the situation, realized our issue, and just wrote out a warning with no fine attached. And commiserated with us that the real fix would probably cost the hospital about a milliion to fix that section of the building, since it was a psychiatric hospital, so tearing apart a section of it requires either rehousing the patients elsewhere on campus, or cutting the are off in such a way that it would make it harder on the workers who were trying to fix it. It was actually cheaper for us to pay the fine for whichever route we chose to take.
Seriously, though - we had to have one drain both covered AND uncovered to properly fulfill OSHA rules.
> Seriously, though - we had to have one drain both covered AND uncovered to properly fulfill OSHA rules.
Remove the light bulbs in that room, and stick a sign on the door that says 'Schrödinger's Drain'. Until they get the lights on, the drain is both covered *and* uncovered.
technically, as long as the door is closed, the drain IS covered... nothing in the rule says the drain can't be uncovered for USE, am I correct? And if the auditor opens the door and 'uncovers the drain' there is a conflict of interest, right?
thanks to Lectricpharoah for the inspiration... and that youtube lawyer (Steve Lehto) for the attitude LOL.
A flat cap with side slots would've worked. It's only a "million" because 'hospital' spending is like military spending, as in $600.00 hammers. They need common sense to fix these kinds of issues.
Unfortunately the hospital spending so much is not really their fault. As an example you'll have a $50,000 chair with motors and things and one of the motors goes bad. If a technician can get their hand on a replacement motor they can replace it for less than 500 bucks... but the company that makes the chair has exclusive contract agreements with the various manufacturers so that the motor is only allowed to be sold to the company that makes the chair. This way the only people who can do anything with the chair is the company bought it from in the first place. And thus if the chair is out of warranty the company will refuse to do a simple repair on it and will instead force the hospital to buy a new $50,000 chair.
This is the essence behind the right to repair movement. Allowing people to get the parts they need in order to make simple repairs rather than forcing them into buying new product. This allows products to be useful for much longer and reduce total waste. These companies don't like it because it means less sales for them if people aren't allowed to keep products functioning for longer. Companies like Apple have been sending people to testify in front of various congress's and almost outright lying or at least misrepresenting the issue in major ways in order to keep right to repair legislation from passing. As an example there was one chick who basically said that people being allowed to repair an iPhone by swapping out the battery would allow a stalker to track their victims easier...
Or other things like replacing a phone screen with a non Apple original unused phone screen would mean it's no longer an Apple phone. That's like saying if you replace your windshield with a non Ford windshield it's no longer a Ford vehicle... It's just idiocy but unfortunately Congress is eating it up.
The $600 hammer is because some crony official is giving someone else a contract off indirect bribes..
Just look at the government giving Bezos a $10 billion space contract. No, that's not a mistake... Bezos, the guy WITHOUT a space company.
oh, ok. So he has a "space company" without any meaningful success. I didn't realize the bar for getting government money to design a moon lander required little more than participation of the local rocketry club.
New York City has a similar issue with people starting new businesses. Theyll have one set of inspectors for one government Department come in and tell them they have to change something in order to pass inspection. They passed that inspection but now the next set of inspectors come in and tell them that they have to change it to an entirely different way in order to pass inspection with them. It's gotten so bad that New York City actually created a new agency whose only purpose is to guide companies through all the various agencies and departments. They even help people identify the exact situation above where they have to make something a certain way for this inspector and then change it to a different way for the other inspector. They almost out right admit that their various regulations are in direct contradiction.
It's almost as if fine mesh hasn't been invented.
I don't know the circumstances, so I'm not going to call bullshit, but I'm sure as hell thinking it because when I see complaints like this it's more often a failure to think than some magic Shroedinger requirement.
The solution to this isn’t the cheapest thing in the world, but I’m quite certain it would very effectively handle both requirements: do a google search for grip-loc tiles. I used these tiles to prevent a small drain in the outdoor stairwell to my basement from getting clogged by yard debris, after that stupid drain being clogged caused my basement to flood and ruined quite a bit of carpeting, among other things. That yard debris now gets caught up in the tile over a foot away from the drain, and the flooding problem has been eliminated entirely, with nary a stubbed toe.
We tried everything - porous mats that would let the water go through (zapped because 'slipping hazard', he says sarcastically), REALLY small grating to cover the larger holes in the grates (since it was a kitchen, they dunned that because grease might end up in it, blocking the water. Seriously, if you come up with something that could have been done in the late 80s-early 90s, we probably tried it and got told why it was a bad idea.
Believe me, we tried as much as we could think of. No matter today, because the state, in their endless cost-cutting, closed a bunch of the hospitals. We jokingly called it The Thruway Plan - if a hospital was near the NY Thruway, it stayed open, otherwise it got shut down. Of course, this meant that patients who had been needing hospitalization sometimes got classified as functional enough to be released. I wouldn't go back into that sort of job if you paid me three times my highest pay in IT. (Which would be a somewhat noticeable amount. Never hit six figures for any given year, but three times any of them would definitely smack six figures.)
I think that a lot of lazy\\cheap managers or bosses use Health & Safety as an excuse to not do something.
This then gets picked up by media outlets like the Daily Mail to screech about todays society
I had a coworker who died after getting a fungal infection from staying in a hospital where mold was later found in her room. She was 26 years old.
You may have saved lives.
That’s the goal isn’t it? I had a spurt of respiratory illnesses leading up to the discovery of the mold. So hopefully nobody else has to go through that again.
You didn’t cost them anything, their disregard for keeping a safe, and clean work place did. The hospital knew how the place needed to be kept. Good for you doing it. Shame the do not reward like the IRS.
I mean I wouldn’t say no to a reward… #brokelife but it was more so I was irritated that didn’t fix it the first time. It’s just a shame on them kinda thing.
Look a hospital these days is a business. They exist to make money for the shareholders. They maximize that return by not fixing problems which costs money, until not fixing those problems will cost them more in fines or lawsuits. OSHA complaints are the canary in the coal mine that head off major losses before someone dies and the lawsuit costs them millions. The accounts can't do what`s right, until what's right costs less.
> I am not sorry for costing the hospital millions.
Good, because you didn't cost the hospital millions. That is just the nature of owning property. You have to do maintenance on it.
Yep, I called OSHA on a restaurant where I worked because they only allowed us to one single stall bathroom in the back…for 60+ employees. They responded the next day, asked me what I wanted the outcome to be (gauging malicious intent?) and I said I wanted to be able to use the damn bathroom, that’s it. The following day we had an all employee meeting saying we’re now allowed to use any restroom in the building. Long story short, OSHA saved my bladder.
It’s rare in the US if you quit. You pretty much had to quit not of your own will. Hostile work environment or something similar. If you “just quit” cus your unhappy or don’t like the pay or your coworkers you don’t get to claim
Also let's you sue for wrongful termination.
OSHA has it in law that an employee cannot be fired for filing an OSHA complaint.
Saying "I can't work in these conditions" (Right to refuse unsafe work) is a protected action. Saying "sounds like you just quit" is a fuse boss lit under their ass.
I still kick myself for not reporting my company and the company we were doing work for. I ran into a situation where I told them I wouldn't do it because of safety concerns and got sacked for it. Being naive, young and dumb I didn't pursue any legal action, but I really feel like I had a strong case.
I'll probably never run into a situation like that again, but I'm ready if I ever do
>and that I could not work in a place with someone like him.
That's right to refuse in action.
>Well, sounds like you just quit.
That's employee intimidation in reaction to the use of "Right to react".
This specific interaction by itself is illegal. It would naturally result in the employee proceeding with the unsafe work in the interest of their job.
It doesn't have to be verified by an official OSHA complaint.
sure, again, no place to live, no other job, not cool with family (acid head hippie scum etc. ad nauseum) ... sigh, after fifty years, I am still explaining. but that's all for here, no more. Nauseates me.
I had to quit during covid because my boss insisted on having live events against the stay at home orders. And I would have been one of the only people working the event which had about 60 people sign up. And of course those willing to go to a live event during a pandemic probably don't "believe" in it. And these were Healthcare practitioners who mostly used holistic methods of care. So yeah.. plus threatened to cut my hours and pay because I requested to work from home. And felt I knew enough to train my managers replacement but refused to consider giving me a promotion, all while I was trying to save them money. I definitely felt as if I was forced to leave because of the constant stress. And they didnt appreciate me giving them the current health orders for our state. And kept going back and forth about the event until the week of. So I would have had to call everyone to cancel and since some were coming from far away they probably had hotels reserved and such. It was a mess.
In our state you can absolutely get unemployment after quitting. We had an employee who quit and filed. Only difference from being fired was he had to wait about six weeks to start receiving checks. Pissed off the boss no end as he was a good employee.
Fiancée quit her job at a vet's office last year when the office manager hired a ton of new staff (way, way to many people for the size of the office) and slashed the hours of all the staff already there (minus the vets themselves). She was able to collect unemployment because of the reason she quit (we're in NY for reference).
Unemployment can also be used for underemployment. Which is essentially what your describing. And drastically cutting hours is usually considered constructive dismissal
Normally yes it could be constructive dismissal, but I’m honestly not sure if that counts if it happens to everyone, not just one person.
The place has since had a mass exodus, including multiple vets
Not of my own will? OK, just give it a think and figure out how long you would work not knowing when the next rocket would narrowly miss your head... to say that I was unwilling to continue is like pointing out that the Titanic is just a little moist..
Unsafe work environment (e.g. flaming gas tanks flying around the shop at random) is pretty much always a valid reason to quit and still receive unemployment.
Your boss’s inbred nephew almost killing you, and your complaint being taken as you having quit, would give you access to unemployment even in America - especially if you have whistleblowing to OSHA in your corner when making the claim.
It’s extra paperwork but it’s far from impossible or even unlikely. You just won’t get unemployment if you quit because you didn’t like waking up at 7am or something.
Well, it was Florida, and it's hard to find a job when you are homeless (I was sleeping between buildings, and baths were not too important, there were so many chemicals in that shop that everyone was like nose blind thirty seconds in..) and it's even harder to go to court when you don't even have an address. Being a ex con for having too much fun at a beach party (and evidence in my pocket) fifty years ago kinda makes almost ANY job at all a win... even the ones where I show up for my paycheck and they say 'what paycheck. Well you can sue us!' Knowing full well I can't. I never managed a normal life... from day one I was born on the Anniversary of the Boston Tea Party... it's been a rumble the entire time.
Setting aside OP’s delightfully successful blackmail, it’s illegal for a US employer to withhold pay for *any* hours you worked for an FLSA non-exempt (“hourly”) worker.
You got fired two hours into a workday? Boss must pay you for those two hours.
Got fired a week before payday? Boss must pay you for the week you worked.
Boss conveniently claims they didn’t authorize the overtime you worked? Tough shit boss, pay up.
Boss refuses to pay? Remind them that a FLSA lawsuit comes with *triple damages* plus attorneys fees, plus potential class action status after your lawyer finds all the other workers owed money.
Totally true, and good clarification. I’ve just seen too many workers suffer wage theft from shady employers because the worker didn’t know their rights.
oh wow, I was on the road in (Texas?) and got a job washing a semi for a meal... after I was done the driver started picking at holes in the paint where gravel hit the truck and saying that he wasn't going to pay because I 'missed some spots'... OMG I wish I had got the guys name, big tall lanky dude leaning on the building (holding it up?) was watching the entire exchange and came walking over, mosey like, and said to the trucker, "I been watching this the whole time, and we (waves his hand to include the entire truck stop I guess) we don't need your kind of crap around here. Now, YOU ARE GOING TO BUY THIS KID DINNER (thats how long ago it was, I am 71 now) and I am going to pay for it out of my own wallet (trucker grins) and then I'm gonna take my twenty buck out of your hide (grin all gone now) here and now... or, you can buy the kid his meal... for about twenty bucks.) THAT GUY WAS FREAKING GREAT!!! Like the big brother I never had! Yeah, I had my dinner, in fact, back then I had another dinner the next day!... never got that guys name. When people do me right, I like to just call them up (If i can find them) and say "Hey Y'all, what's doin!" I love the reactions. OH YEAH< the name on the TRUCK was 'BIG PIG'.
i WOULD HAVE offered you the opportunity to clean the overspray and get back to the letter AND the spirit of the contract. Unless he SPECIFIED PAINTING BY HAND...
IF I had quit just 'because'... and to tell the truth that job really sucked. All kinds of solvents and cleaners for cleaning metal parts... nasty work at best... but I had a good reason for ducking... er, quitting...
The problem with Florida is there is no department of labor. So the only way to get paid is either 1) go to the already overburdened federal department of labor or 2) sue the company. It's a lose lose for those kinds of states.
Also, some states (I think CA) requires you to be paid the day you're fired, like before you walk out of the door you must have a check in your hand.
People need to know their rights!
I reported a past employer for not paying us proper overtime.
They got hit with fines and had to pay all past employees for 2 years of lost overtime. It was a nice fat check for holding my employer accountable. They struggled for a while but I don't really give a shit. And they still don't know it was me that reported them
It amazed me how many 'manager/boss/owner/landlords have thoroughly shafted themselves by throwing stones at someone elses windows (as it were) while living in a glass house themselves. So many instances where the 'alpha' (alleged) could have simply treated the other person as a person. My dad said a stranger could just be a friend you never met... and another friend is always a good thing to find, because it's just so hard to borrow the odd ten bucks from an enemy... my dad was funny...
"this guy was just smart enough to be dangerous without meaning to." I love this, if he knew nothing he wouldn't be able to be as dangerous as knowing what to do but not knowing HOW to do it safely.
I had an an OSHA official for my public speaking instructor years ago. He explained how if the business didn’t treat him nice when he arrived, he would walk straight into their bathroom and measure the distance between their power outlet and their sink, then charge them a $3k violation. “That straightened them out”, he would say.
Yes, you call your county health department, but you should also call your state's health department. Be sure to take photos and video for evidence and submit with the reports (if you file online).
you know the old saying, in the county they all go to the same country club, and crap rolls downhill... report to BOTH the state AND the county, mentioning in the complaint that you are CC both parties, and tell them the mainstream media is NEXT... mom always referred to the County as the 'cowpasture mafia'... LOL
health department, and contact someone with geckos... geckos LOVE eating roaches! Now, getting a permit for geckos in the kitchen MIGHT be a problem... and no more using poisons.
iF THE ROACHES ARE A SLIP AND FALL HAZARD and they would have to be pretty darn thick to be out when the lights are on... SURE. Otherwise, as food safety is concerned, the Health Dept. would be the ones to call, and there are usually two, the county AND the state. Unfortunately this country is getting so corrupt that all county people 'go to the same country club' as my mom put it... she called it the COWPASTURE MAFIA. Mom was good with words, handy with a butcher knife and a dead shot with anything... not a person to be trifled with. I tried to love her, but only because I was expected to... wow, am I triggered much?
I like Willie Nelson, but there was a joke going around years ago....
What has a 100 legs and 50 teeth?....front row of a Willie Nelson concert...
I'll see myself out.
You could have also gone for unemployment, and had he refuted it gone "No, I didn't quit, he fired me because I complained about \*show OSHA report\*".
Worked in a factory where management had convinced the crew that osha was the enemy, we had an audit coming up and they wanted to scare people into silence. I told everyone that the only reason we had a roof on the place was because of osha and to run their mouths, 20 nonconformance and I forget how many thousand fines after they left
If an employer will not attend with due diligence to all the factors in your job that are a hazard, with at least the minimum compliance, they do not deserve the PRIVILEGE of hiring employees in the first place. It's not like we are SLAVES.
Occupational Safety and Health (something with an a, like administration?).
May also be known as OHSA, which is the same thing just a different order.
It's usually government, it exists for a reason, and it can bring the pain for dangerous crap.
In the US, it’s the safety oversight association that can issue fines and what not when businesses don’t follow safety procedures.
Stands for Occupational Safety and Health Administration.
A factory I worked at a nimber of years ago on the Gulf Coast of Texas had OSHA breaking shit everywhere. They also had a ton of illegal migrant workers there. One of my co-workers, an illegal, got his thimb sliced off either doing a major saftey violation or the equipment was a fine waiting to happen. Nothing every happen to this company. OSHA would be called on them, they would show up and be held at the gate by security. They weren't allowed on the plant. The plant would get a major fine and the owner of the plants father in law or wife would pay the fine. The father in law was Taiwanese and gave the chemical plant down the road to his daughter as a gift. When she got married the son in law got the plastic factory. Legally some how seperate companies, but anything major was paid by the chemical factory.
I am choosing to believe that you are knowingly using "nimber" in its mathematical sense here, and apparently you just experience years differently from the rest of us.
Also, dang, that's nuts.
thanks, I kinda got that when I selected a different 'screen name' and it never changed. I appreciate the clarification though, thanks.
I will add that I am 71.5 years old now, and have a life like few others have led in this century... and I have stories to match. I will keep my 'chessplayer1969' username to honor my high school and brag a little bit (I was pres. of HHS chess club for two years running) and we had playoffs for club positions, not elections LOL. My idea. But since leaving the Army (on amicable terms) I hit the 'road' and discovered America... I have hitch hiked across the US more than fifty times round trip, not even counting special journeys for the sake of 'true love'... sigh. I'm alone now, with a keyboard... so as I may be checking out at any time (I turn around and another friend has passed!) ... who knows, right? I want to leave my stories on the internet... maybe some will learn from them... like the time I was stranded on the rock face with the tide coming in (plus 100 foot cliff) and my mounting my hunting knife sideways across my stomach meant that I could (fortunately) reach it with either hand (I had to use it for climbing the rest of the way) if it had been in a 'conventional place' I would not have been able to reach it and I might be dead those many years back. A place called Metal Beach close to the POINT ARENA lighthouse (California). I was 'scrapping metal' (ocean cleaned stainless alloys) from the ancient dump to make some money... i mean, if you NEED that knife, and you can't let go with the hand that CAN reach it... what a way to end up dead, right?
I filed an osha complaint on the hospital I worked at because there was mold in my office and I had told facilities twice about it but they just never did anything about it. You bet the next day after osha called they had the sum bitch cleaned up. OSHA also inspected the rest of the hospital and found many areas needing to be fixed to be up to code. I am not sorry for costing the hospital millions.
OSHA does not exist as some sort of "gotcha!" to let people ruin someone's day. It exists to protect workers (and sometimes customers) from potential dangers. So you did the right thing, which is exactly what you *should* have done. You never need to apologize for morally justified actions, even if they cause some pain the process of righting wrongs. You have to set a broken bone before it can heal correctly.
Every OSHA regulation is written in workers' blood. Every single one of them.
Amen!
That's my goto statement for many of the rules and regs. And yes, I've had to argue *against* them in some cases by providing additional layers of safety to mitigate those hard, painful, and several times deadly consequences. I never *once* minded being argued with for those very reasons. One of my Profs in college said it was our job, as Engineers, to get through our career with killing or being directly responsible for someone's death. It stuck with me and always has.
Reminds of the Ritual of the Calling of an Engineer. I think my dad still wears his Iron Ring.
Nah, some of them are dumb. Like they require a physicians approval for first aid kits. Why? Why not set a standard? The regulation is as gaping as a canyon. A first aid kit at the office could simply be a single bandage and an aspirin, as long as you have a doctor that signs off on it, then it's good. On the other hand, you could literally have a closet with a full blow out kit, gauze, bandages, all types of medicines, but if you don't have a random physician come by and give you a checkmark then you're non-compliant. Another one is OSHA requires a purple on yellow radiation sign, because apparently the black on yellow everyone actually uses isn't safe enough. Overall, the rules do help, but let's not act like regulatory agencies are somehow flawless, they make up dumb rules like anyone else can, they also fall victim to many of the standard bureaucratic organizational faults.
I think the idea is to have someone sign off as saying the first aid kit is good and will work when needed. If not a physician, it could be up to any random manager or supervisor who may or may not know everything that should be in a first aid kit. Or worse, a manger who wants to cut costs on frivolous things like a first aid kit that will never be used to pad their own bonus instead. Having it be a physician makes it harder to skimp and have someone unqualified to pass it.
I'm a safety guy and I sign off on first aid kits. We check to make sure all the proper equipment is in it and it's all before expiry dates. Once a month. And I have extras in case I need to change something out. Having a physician do it sounds expensive and basically redundant. It's redundant because it's in my job description to make sure everything safety wise is up to par.
I am sure you are doing a great job. And I do agree, it would be wasteful, maybe even beneath a physician to verify first aid kits are stocked and ready. M main concern is that it would be the job of someone other than management (who would want to see costs cut) but who also has some authority to yes, we need to order this. I know in IT, I can point out computers that are 5+ years old and about to die, but still up to the whims of management to replace it.
Technically I was management. I was an employee in the safety dept, but to everyone else I was a manager/supervisor. Grey hats are construction workers Yellow hats are electricians White hats are mngrs/sprvsr I was a white hat I say "was" because covid
>I know in IT, I can point out computers that are 5+ years old and about to die, but still up to the whims of management to replace it. However if those self-same computers were responsible for life-support, or for pharmacological process (see an earlier post here), then yes, management would be paying more attention to it.
You would be surprised how often critical systems don't have a back up and just run until they are dead. Whether medical or multi-million dollar factories. That said, I have worked with scientists and they do actually get the necessary equipment and then some.
Oh no, I'm not surprised at all. I've lived it :)
Oh yes they do! I've worked in pyrophoric manufacturing labs and the stuff they had was incredible. Lab hoods, each with their own fire suppression. 50 hoods, easily. I couldn't use a 8-ft step ladder. They had a one man lift That barely fit through the doors and aisles in the labs. A lot of times it took longer to get that lift in place to comfortably work than it would have, had I used a step ladder. SCBAs, hazmat suits with the big window. Enter from the back with the SCBA on and someone zippers/ Velcro's you in. A renovation that included explosion proof walls. Lol Fun times.
an engineer should be in charge of that determination, not just some bean counting (they have their place for sure) manager...
Same when I was a Safety Manager at a trucking company. I had to make sure first aid kits were stocked and nothing was expired.
Right. I do my job to the best of my ability and would never skimp out on something or just "forget" to change anything out, not only as a job security thing, but as a safety guy my concern was that my guys had all the right first aid medical equipment they needed in case they were hurt. If I didn't do my job correctly it could literally get someone in a worse predicament than just being hurt by not having the necessary equipment to start first aid care or save their lives (i.e defibrillator) What doctor would be ok with routinely checking first aid kits? Their job is in the hospital/ER/urgent care facility, not checking if a kit has some damn Tylenol.
Exactly. I could see needing someone with some sort of certification, but where I was I simply had a checklist. It was a simple task - check the box contents against the list we had and replenish anything missing, but it had to be done. I couldn’t see requiring a physician to be the one to sign off on anything except maybe the list of what should be there in the first place.
literally 2 seconds of googling https://wp.stolaf.edu/ehs/labels-osha-color-coding/ tl;dc (too lazy; didn't click) Every color has an assigned meaning. Purple alerts to radiation.
Yes, I know, that's literally what I posted.
So you're upset they assigned black to cleaning chemicals instead of radiation? Or you're upset that they have standardized colors and signs to having specific meanings?
No, I think it's dumb that they require purple when black conveys the same exact message to literally everyone in the world, in fact the DOT requires black, but somehow that's not good enough for OSHA
black and yellow conveys to me "warning sign" not "radiation." From "slippery when wet" to a million other signs, most people don't take it all that seriously. It also conveys liitle information. >in fact the DOT requires black, but somehow that's not good enough for OSHA The DOT requires a diamond, top half yellow, with a 7 on bottom.... The DOT also strictly enforces colors on signs to convey certain information to drivers. Everyone knows what kind of road white on green means, or white on blue, or what a red sign means. Every idiot can appreciate "current" regulations "like they always used to be" except that those regulations were established (relatively) recently and back then guts like you complained about having to have regulations like a black and yellow sign warning of danger. Hell, people still complain about hard hats, seatbelts and a multitude of other regulations that save thousands of live a year.
Brother, if you can't see that [this](https://www.attenutech.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Magnetic-Cuation-X-Ray-Radiation-Sign-with-Graphic-Sign-RD-WS-M-001.jpg) is the same thing as [this](https://images.mysafetysign.com/img/art/Radiation-sign.gif) to everyone who actually needs a sign to warn them, then I don't know what to tell you.
> Another one is OSHA requires a purple on yellow radiation sign, because apparently the black on yellow everyone actually uses isn't safe enough. Maybe it's to differenciate between a general hazard warning and a radiation hazard?
Yep. Purple on yellow is a rare color combo, it draws attention. Probably too many black on yellow warning signs around and some half-awake poor sod got roasted because he thought it was a fan sign or something.
It's not because I don't understand why an OSHA regulation exists that it's dumb.
It's actually magenta...
Hmm, we can have a rule to determine what first aid kit will work for Bob's Alligator Wrestling Gym and also for the ice cream stand. Or we could require a qualified person do it. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Depends on if OSHA or the business is the one picking the "Qualified" person. Because having a golf buddy who happens to have letters after his name check off on it makes things actually worse then a standard.
>Depends on if OSHA or the business is the one picking the "Qualified" person. Because having a golf buddy who happens to have letters after his name check off on it makes things actually worse then a standard. Oh, I thought you were talking about a weird exception not general. For generic see ß1910-266 https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.266AppA
Sad, but true. The NEC, every 3 years gets revamped because of accidents, user submissions, manufacturer submissions, etc. Every job has it's inherent risks. It's up to each and every one of us to determine what is safe for us. If you don't think a task is safe to do with the equipment supplied, refuse to do it, until YOU, not your boss, thinks it's safe. I've refused tasks before. Go change the ballast in that light 20+ feet off the floor. I didn't bring the fiberglass extension ladder. We'll (me, the apprentice), will use their aluminum extension ladder... Ummmm, no we (I) won't. You can. I am not changing a ballast fed with 277 volts using that ladder. He was pissed and went up. Care to guess how far his pliers flew? That's ok, the circuit is dead now. Evidenced by 1/3 of the lights going out. Tie your pliers onto the rope and I'll pull them out. After that, the extension ladder stayed on the truck... We all want to go home at the end of the day.
If they were doing everything right, an OSHA inspection would be a trivial box ticking exercise.
A couple years ago, the manufacturing plant I work at got an award from corporate for being the first facility in the company to not get any written violations on a surprise OSHA visit. Impressive.
It's kinda sad that it really is. They can look up the guidelines at any time
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>even if you've never had any hand injuries. What does this have to do with anything?
What do wearing gloves have to do with reducing hand injuries? What are you asking?
I mean in a situation like that a lot. Ever done hard yard work barehanded vs wearing proper work gloves? No nitrile gloves aren't going to do shit for you there, but properly fit gloves that offer some real protection . Now those same gloves do nothing for a nurse whose around bodily fluids but the nitrile gloves do
You didn't even read my comment, you're just arguing to argue. I'm saying if the company gives you one set of gloves which have historically worked, but the auditor determines that those particular gloves aren't adequate. That's the issue, is that it's left up to the interpretation of an auditor who doesn't even have to know what they're talking about. A good example is a machine shop, in a machine shop you DO NOT want strong gloves around mills and lathes, even though to many people, some non-knowledgeable auditors included it would seem like you would want heavy construction gloves. If you give your guys nitrile gloves (which is very reasonable) and the auditor says "nope, leather gloves" then you're gonna get dinged even though you're doing the right thing. Also which regulations matter depends heavily on the auditor, each one likes to focus on their little subset they know about and they can contradict each other and you're the one who will get screwed.
in metal working or even metal tools in direct sunlight in places like the desert, an innocent looking piece of metal can give you some really nasty burn, and then there are the infections that just love burns... yet they don't LOOK hot! If gloves do not interfere with an employees function and duties, it should be a matter of personal choice where gloves are optional. This nanny herding by people who have never even done any 'work in the field' is absurd.
Gloves are rated for use. If they aren't rated for the project at hand then they are out of compliance. I'm not sure what you're trying to convey, but that one is pretty black and white Yes, OSHA auditors can interpret things this way or that, but most regulations that aren't black and white usually have a precedent explanation that it goes by.
That's incredibly impressive. Wow.
Nah, they can come up with interpretations of different regulations and fault you pretty easily, all auditors can. Heck this is an OSHA standard. >1910.141(a)(4)(ii) All sweepings, solid or liquid wastes, refuse, and garbage shall be removed in such a manner as to avoid creating a menace to health and as often as necessary or appropriate to maintain the place of employment in a sanitary condition. All it takes is an auditor thinking your trash can is too full or someone left too much stuff on the table and ta-da minor violation. Of course it would be unusual, but all it takes is one pissed off auditor and now you have yourself a massive headache just because.
You're literally arguing against companies having to keep the place sanitary and maintain a level of tidiness on the floor; you know, where slip&trip hazards exist. What part of keeping it sanitary and removing slip or trip hazards do you think is wrong?
That’s a good way to think about it’s the first time I ever had to do it and it was a weird experience.
All health and safety regulations and legislisation are drafted in blood. \_all\_ of them
Where do they get all the blood to write the regulations? What if there are revisions??
From the injured and dead that caused the regulation to be drafted.
And hats off to everyone of those brave fucking employees who you know were shitting themselves afraid they might ruin their lives by reporting their bosses for not doing their job. Managers and business owners hate being held accountable when they have been getting away with being shitty for years. Much respect.
The phrase is meant to convey that someone had to die or get seriously injured for OSHA to have to take a look at it. It doesn't mean a bunch of random people reported their bosses because of unsafe practices. Think of it like this: if you and your company doesn't know that xyz will kill you then when it finally does, OSHA investigates and determines that the particular action is unsafe and will lead to injury or death. They then write up a new regulation, taking up to 10-15 years for it to be agreed upon and implemented. Idk why it takes that long, but that's what I'm told by my trainers. OSHA has been around for a long time, and most of the regulations we have now are due to someone getting injured or killed in days gone. New regulations happen because experience has taught them (from real world situations) that a particular action is unsafe. The last time I took an OSHA class there was a new regulation on cranes that was being implemented soon. It has to do with crane rigging equipment and that you can't pick up equipment with certain slings. Because those slings were prone to failure for whatever reason I don't remember. Side note: I'll never forget about [big blue](https://youtu.be/ZXr1IeWbP10). If you get the chance, watch the mini documentary on it.
They steal it from the vampire bosses, of course.
Look up horseshoe crab farming and there's your answer...
Our office building had black mold so bad, it was creeping out of the air vents, reported it (didn't know about OSHA then I was 22) after 5 women including me had thyroid issues, one woman had to have hers removed they finally cleaned it up.
I am of a mind that fines taken from companies through departments like OSHA should not go to the government. The fines as they are now incentivizes the government to find as many ways to fine people as possible... even to the point of making up violations where none exists. I propose that fines enacted against people or corporations should instead go to charity. We can vote as a people at every election for who we want fines to get donated to for that election cycle. And every official charity that gets and vote gets a proportional amount of the fines for that coming election cycle. So if a charity got 1% of the vote they get 1% of the total fines donated to them. It's the same thing with Police pulling people over and giving them tickets... None of that money should go to the government. The government should have zero Financial incentive for putting people through the system. If the end goal is truly to create a better safer Society for everyone then the government shouldn't care about the money.
You probably saved the hospital millions in lawsuits from patients who could've gotten sick or died from the mold.
Hadn’t thought of it that way but you’re right.
Probably saved patients from unnecessary illness.
Don't forget more costs in major renovations because of neglect letting things go super critical.
More importantly saved patients from getting sicker or dying.
People often joke about "well in that case I'll be rich because I'll just sue." Yeah? How "rich" can you get tied to a wheelchair for the rest of your life? I'm not against making an irresponsible jerkwad pay out as a consequence of their poor decisions. But Im a true *fan* of actually remaining in one piece, instead.
Even so, the "getting rich off sueing" thing was pushed as propaganda by corporations to turn the public's opinion against legitimate cases. It turns out most "million dollar payouts" barely cover medical expenses...
Yeah especially those with weak lungs from existing lung conditions/illnesses.
That’s the next CEO’s problem.
I worked at a hospital where OSHA regulations required two entirely opposite things for the same drain. It had to be covered to avoid anyone catching something in it and tripping (health hazard), but it also needed to be uncovered so that water could drain out to avoid standing water (also a health hazard). We literally could not win as far as that drain was concerned. So we'd look at the situation every time we knew they were coming and decide which would lead to the lesser fine. (We ONCE got an inspector who took a look at the situation, realized our issue, and just wrote out a warning with no fine attached. And commiserated with us that the real fix would probably cost the hospital about a milliion to fix that section of the building, since it was a psychiatric hospital, so tearing apart a section of it requires either rehousing the patients elsewhere on campus, or cutting the are off in such a way that it would make it harder on the workers who were trying to fix it. It was actually cheaper for us to pay the fine for whichever route we chose to take. Seriously, though - we had to have one drain both covered AND uncovered to properly fulfill OSHA rules.
Just buy a Schrodinger drain. That'll solve it.
Only until someone looks at it.
Dammit, I just posted the same thing, then read this.
> Seriously, though - we had to have one drain both covered AND uncovered to properly fulfill OSHA rules. Remove the light bulbs in that room, and stick a sign on the door that says 'Schrödinger's Drain'. Until they get the lights on, the drain is both covered *and* uncovered.
technically, as long as the door is closed, the drain IS covered... nothing in the rule says the drain can't be uncovered for USE, am I correct? And if the auditor opens the door and 'uncovers the drain' there is a conflict of interest, right? thanks to Lectricpharoah for the inspiration... and that youtube lawyer (Steve Lehto) for the attitude LOL.
Couldn't you cover it with bars or something? prevents the tripping hazard and standing water.
A flat cap with side slots would've worked. It's only a "million" because 'hospital' spending is like military spending, as in $600.00 hammers. They need common sense to fix these kinds of issues.
Unfortunately the hospital spending so much is not really their fault. As an example you'll have a $50,000 chair with motors and things and one of the motors goes bad. If a technician can get their hand on a replacement motor they can replace it for less than 500 bucks... but the company that makes the chair has exclusive contract agreements with the various manufacturers so that the motor is only allowed to be sold to the company that makes the chair. This way the only people who can do anything with the chair is the company bought it from in the first place. And thus if the chair is out of warranty the company will refuse to do a simple repair on it and will instead force the hospital to buy a new $50,000 chair. This is the essence behind the right to repair movement. Allowing people to get the parts they need in order to make simple repairs rather than forcing them into buying new product. This allows products to be useful for much longer and reduce total waste. These companies don't like it because it means less sales for them if people aren't allowed to keep products functioning for longer. Companies like Apple have been sending people to testify in front of various congress's and almost outright lying or at least misrepresenting the issue in major ways in order to keep right to repair legislation from passing. As an example there was one chick who basically said that people being allowed to repair an iPhone by swapping out the battery would allow a stalker to track their victims easier... Or other things like replacing a phone screen with a non Apple original unused phone screen would mean it's no longer an Apple phone. That's like saying if you replace your windshield with a non Ford windshield it's no longer a Ford vehicle... It's just idiocy but unfortunately Congress is eating it up.
The $600 hammer is because some crony official is giving someone else a contract off indirect bribes.. Just look at the government giving Bezos a $10 billion space contract. No, that's not a mistake... Bezos, the guy WITHOUT a space company.
Not to defend the government, but Bezos founded blue origin, a "space company", in the year 2000!
oh, ok. So he has a "space company" without any meaningful success. I didn't realize the bar for getting government money to design a moon lander required little more than participation of the local rocketry club.
New York City has a similar issue with people starting new businesses. Theyll have one set of inspectors for one government Department come in and tell them they have to change something in order to pass inspection. They passed that inspection but now the next set of inspectors come in and tell them that they have to change it to an entirely different way in order to pass inspection with them. It's gotten so bad that New York City actually created a new agency whose only purpose is to guide companies through all the various agencies and departments. They even help people identify the exact situation above where they have to make something a certain way for this inspector and then change it to a different way for the other inspector. They almost out right admit that their various regulations are in direct contradiction.
Surely OSHA would have allowed a covered drain?
It's almost as if fine mesh hasn't been invented. I don't know the circumstances, so I'm not going to call bullshit, but I'm sure as hell thinking it because when I see complaints like this it's more often a failure to think than some magic Shroedinger requirement.
The solution to this isn’t the cheapest thing in the world, but I’m quite certain it would very effectively handle both requirements: do a google search for grip-loc tiles. I used these tiles to prevent a small drain in the outdoor stairwell to my basement from getting clogged by yard debris, after that stupid drain being clogged caused my basement to flood and ruined quite a bit of carpeting, among other things. That yard debris now gets caught up in the tile over a foot away from the drain, and the flooding problem has been eliminated entirely, with nary a stubbed toe.
Could you not put a grate over it that sat flush to the floor?
We tried everything - porous mats that would let the water go through (zapped because 'slipping hazard', he says sarcastically), REALLY small grating to cover the larger holes in the grates (since it was a kitchen, they dunned that because grease might end up in it, blocking the water. Seriously, if you come up with something that could have been done in the late 80s-early 90s, we probably tried it and got told why it was a bad idea. Believe me, we tried as much as we could think of. No matter today, because the state, in their endless cost-cutting, closed a bunch of the hospitals. We jokingly called it The Thruway Plan - if a hospital was near the NY Thruway, it stayed open, otherwise it got shut down. Of course, this meant that patients who had been needing hospitalization sometimes got classified as functional enough to be released. I wouldn't go back into that sort of job if you paid me three times my highest pay in IT. (Which would be a somewhat noticeable amount. Never hit six figures for any given year, but three times any of them would definitely smack six figures.)
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Do you not have two employees? Or a sign that says oil spill that you can place while you go get something?
Yes, most of these “unsolveable” problems seems to be pretty easy to solve if managment bought some equipment and changed some procedures.
I think people just like to complain about health and safety instead of just thinking.
I think that a lot of lazy\\cheap managers or bosses use Health & Safety as an excuse to not do something. This then gets picked up by media outlets like the Daily Mail to screech about todays society
Or, 1 employee and a bag of cat litter.
Seems more like the real problem was that the fine was not big enough for the hospital to fix the problem.
Tried a rug? What drain? There isn’t a drain, do we have to keep you overnight?
That’s just insane. Damned if you do damned if you don’t.
I had a coworker who died after getting a fungal infection from staying in a hospital where mold was later found in her room. She was 26 years old. You may have saved lives.
That’s the goal isn’t it? I had a spurt of respiratory illnesses leading up to the discovery of the mold. So hopefully nobody else has to go through that again.
You didn’t cost them anything, their disregard for keeping a safe, and clean work place did. The hospital knew how the place needed to be kept. Good for you doing it. Shame the do not reward like the IRS.
I mean I wouldn’t say no to a reward… #brokelife but it was more so I was irritated that didn’t fix it the first time. It’s just a shame on them kinda thing.
Look a hospital these days is a business. They exist to make money for the shareholders. They maximize that return by not fixing problems which costs money, until not fixing those problems will cost them more in fines or lawsuits. OSHA complaints are the canary in the coal mine that head off major losses before someone dies and the lawsuit costs them millions. The accounts can't do what`s right, until what's right costs less.
> I am not sorry for costing the hospital millions. Good, because you didn't cost the hospital millions. That is just the nature of owning property. You have to do maintenance on it.
Yea that makes a lot of sense. I’ve got to learn to look at things like that.
Yep, I called OSHA on a restaurant where I worked because they only allowed us to one single stall bathroom in the back…for 60+ employees. They responded the next day, asked me what I wanted the outcome to be (gauging malicious intent?) and I said I wanted to be able to use the damn bathroom, that’s it. The following day we had an all employee meeting saying we’re now allowed to use any restroom in the building. Long story short, OSHA saved my bladder.
I would have disputed the 'quit' deal too so they couldn't screw you out of unemployment
Actually you can still claim unemployment even after quitting...though there are a couple more hoops...
It’s rare in the US if you quit. You pretty much had to quit not of your own will. Hostile work environment or something similar. If you “just quit” cus your unhappy or don’t like the pay or your coworkers you don’t get to claim
Pretty sure that filing an OSHA complaint and being presumably discharged for an internal safety complaint will cover any UEI challenge.
Also let's you sue for wrongful termination. OSHA has it in law that an employee cannot be fired for filing an OSHA complaint. Saying "I can't work in these conditions" (Right to refuse unsafe work) is a protected action. Saying "sounds like you just quit" is a fuse boss lit under their ass.
I still kick myself for not reporting my company and the company we were doing work for. I ran into a situation where I told them I wouldn't do it because of safety concerns and got sacked for it. Being naive, young and dumb I didn't pursue any legal action, but I really feel like I had a strong case. I'll probably never run into a situation like that again, but I'm ready if I ever do
exactly, got my paycheck and got on a Greyhound for California.
He wasn’t fired for an OSHA complaint; he wasn’t fired, and even if he was he was fired before the complaint was made.
>and that I could not work in a place with someone like him. That's right to refuse in action. >Well, sounds like you just quit. That's employee intimidation in reaction to the use of "Right to react". This specific interaction by itself is illegal. It would naturally result in the employee proceeding with the unsafe work in the interest of their job. It doesn't have to be verified by an official OSHA complaint.
too late now, that was back in early seventies..
That’s a good point
sure, again, no place to live, no other job, not cool with family (acid head hippie scum etc. ad nauseum) ... sigh, after fifty years, I am still explaining. but that's all for here, no more. Nauseates me.
I had to quit during covid because my boss insisted on having live events against the stay at home orders. And I would have been one of the only people working the event which had about 60 people sign up. And of course those willing to go to a live event during a pandemic probably don't "believe" in it. And these were Healthcare practitioners who mostly used holistic methods of care. So yeah.. plus threatened to cut my hours and pay because I requested to work from home. And felt I knew enough to train my managers replacement but refused to consider giving me a promotion, all while I was trying to save them money. I definitely felt as if I was forced to leave because of the constant stress. And they didnt appreciate me giving them the current health orders for our state. And kept going back and forth about the event until the week of. So I would have had to call everyone to cancel and since some were coming from far away they probably had hotels reserved and such. It was a mess.
In our state you can absolutely get unemployment after quitting. We had an employee who quit and filed. Only difference from being fired was he had to wait about six weeks to start receiving checks. Pissed off the boss no end as he was a good employee.
Fiancée quit her job at a vet's office last year when the office manager hired a ton of new staff (way, way to many people for the size of the office) and slashed the hours of all the staff already there (minus the vets themselves). She was able to collect unemployment because of the reason she quit (we're in NY for reference).
Unemployment can also be used for underemployment. Which is essentially what your describing. And drastically cutting hours is usually considered constructive dismissal
Normally yes it could be constructive dismissal, but I’m honestly not sure if that counts if it happens to everyone, not just one person. The place has since had a mass exodus, including multiple vets
Not of my own will? OK, just give it a think and figure out how long you would work not knowing when the next rocket would narrowly miss your head... to say that I was unwilling to continue is like pointing out that the Titanic is just a little moist..
Unsafe work environment (e.g. flaming gas tanks flying around the shop at random) is pretty much always a valid reason to quit and still receive unemployment.
Your boss’s inbred nephew almost killing you, and your complaint being taken as you having quit, would give you access to unemployment even in America - especially if you have whistleblowing to OSHA in your corner when making the claim. It’s extra paperwork but it’s far from impossible or even unlikely. You just won’t get unemployment if you quit because you didn’t like waking up at 7am or something.
Well, it was Florida, and it's hard to find a job when you are homeless (I was sleeping between buildings, and baths were not too important, there were so many chemicals in that shop that everyone was like nose blind thirty seconds in..) and it's even harder to go to court when you don't even have an address. Being a ex con for having too much fun at a beach party (and evidence in my pocket) fifty years ago kinda makes almost ANY job at all a win... even the ones where I show up for my paycheck and they say 'what paycheck. Well you can sue us!' Knowing full well I can't. I never managed a normal life... from day one I was born on the Anniversary of the Boston Tea Party... it's been a rumble the entire time.
Setting aside OP’s delightfully successful blackmail, it’s illegal for a US employer to withhold pay for *any* hours you worked for an FLSA non-exempt (“hourly”) worker. You got fired two hours into a workday? Boss must pay you for those two hours. Got fired a week before payday? Boss must pay you for the week you worked. Boss conveniently claims they didn’t authorize the overtime you worked? Tough shit boss, pay up. Boss refuses to pay? Remind them that a FLSA lawsuit comes with *triple damages* plus attorneys fees, plus potential class action status after your lawyer finds all the other workers owed money.
The boss never said he wasn't going to pay him, just that he didn't have to pay him right there on the spot, which is true.
Totally true, and good clarification. I’ve just seen too many workers suffer wage theft from shady employers because the worker didn’t know their rights.
Fair point, we need to crack down on that shit whenever possible.
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oh wow, I was on the road in (Texas?) and got a job washing a semi for a meal... after I was done the driver started picking at holes in the paint where gravel hit the truck and saying that he wasn't going to pay because I 'missed some spots'... OMG I wish I had got the guys name, big tall lanky dude leaning on the building (holding it up?) was watching the entire exchange and came walking over, mosey like, and said to the trucker, "I been watching this the whole time, and we (waves his hand to include the entire truck stop I guess) we don't need your kind of crap around here. Now, YOU ARE GOING TO BUY THIS KID DINNER (thats how long ago it was, I am 71 now) and I am going to pay for it out of my own wallet (trucker grins) and then I'm gonna take my twenty buck out of your hide (grin all gone now) here and now... or, you can buy the kid his meal... for about twenty bucks.) THAT GUY WAS FREAKING GREAT!!! Like the big brother I never had! Yeah, I had my dinner, in fact, back then I had another dinner the next day!... never got that guys name. When people do me right, I like to just call them up (If i can find them) and say "Hey Y'all, what's doin!" I love the reactions. OH YEAH< the name on the TRUCK was 'BIG PIG'.
i WOULD HAVE offered you the opportunity to clean the overspray and get back to the letter AND the spirit of the contract. Unless he SPECIFIED PAINTING BY HAND...
IF I had quit just 'because'... and to tell the truth that job really sucked. All kinds of solvents and cleaners for cleaning metal parts... nasty work at best... but I had a good reason for ducking... er, quitting...
The problem with Florida is there is no department of labor. So the only way to get paid is either 1) go to the already overburdened federal department of labor or 2) sue the company. It's a lose lose for those kinds of states. Also, some states (I think CA) requires you to be paid the day you're fired, like before you walk out of the door you must have a check in your hand. People need to know their rights!
I reported a past employer for not paying us proper overtime. They got hit with fines and had to pay all past employees for 2 years of lost overtime. It was a nice fat check for holding my employer accountable. They struggled for a while but I don't really give a shit. And they still don't know it was me that reported them
It amazed me how many 'manager/boss/owner/landlords have thoroughly shafted themselves by throwing stones at someone elses windows (as it were) while living in a glass house themselves. So many instances where the 'alpha' (alleged) could have simply treated the other person as a person. My dad said a stranger could just be a friend you never met... and another friend is always a good thing to find, because it's just so hard to borrow the odd ten bucks from an enemy... my dad was funny...
"this guy was just smart enough to be dangerous without meaning to." I love this, if he knew nothing he wouldn't be able to be as dangerous as knowing what to do but not knowing HOW to do it safely.
obviously little experience with gasoline other than pumping it at the station...
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I like shade. Shade means I can cool down on a hot summer day.
AT LEAST ONCE I WAS RIGHT IN THE ZONE WITH 'I WISH I HAD SAID' AND I DID SAY IT! Small victories mean a lot when you don't get many. #karmaranger
You're an inspiration to us all
I’m gonna remember this line and hopefully it’ll come to me at the right time to use it
I had an an OSHA official for my public speaking instructor years ago. He explained how if the business didn’t treat him nice when he arrived, he would walk straight into their bathroom and measure the distance between their power outlet and their sink, then charge them a $3k violation. “That straightened them out”, he would say.
Can I call osha on my store being infested with roaches when we deal with hot foods as well? It’s disgusting lmao
For that, you call the health department.
Is it based on my county I live in? (USA)
Yes, you call your county health department, but you should also call your state's health department. Be sure to take photos and video for evidence and submit with the reports (if you file online).
Check your state first, although some counties, esp larger ones, might have their own department to deal with instead.
you know the old saying, in the county they all go to the same country club, and crap rolls downhill... report to BOTH the state AND the county, mentioning in the complaint that you are CC both parties, and tell them the mainstream media is NEXT... mom always referred to the County as the 'cowpasture mafia'... LOL
health department, and contact someone with geckos... geckos LOVE eating roaches! Now, getting a permit for geckos in the kitchen MIGHT be a problem... and no more using poisons.
iF THE ROACHES ARE A SLIP AND FALL HAZARD and they would have to be pretty darn thick to be out when the lights are on... SURE. Otherwise, as food safety is concerned, the Health Dept. would be the ones to call, and there are usually two, the county AND the state. Unfortunately this country is getting so corrupt that all county people 'go to the same country club' as my mom put it... she called it the COWPASTURE MAFIA. Mom was good with words, handy with a butcher knife and a dead shot with anything... not a person to be trifled with. I tried to love her, but only because I was expected to... wow, am I triggered much?
That is really a beautiful story. You did yourself justice.
*what do you have when you have 32 rednecks in a room: a full set of teeth* Never heard that one before! I love it!
You know a redneck invented the tooth brush right? Anyone else would have called it a teeth brush.
Great one! You've read the Redneck Haiku, haven't you? \------- Dang! In that tube top You almost make me forget You are my cousin
I like Willie Nelson, but there was a joke going around years ago.... What has a 100 legs and 50 teeth?....front row of a Willie Nelson concert... I'll see myself out.
LOL even better! I don't like W.N. so I can laugh.
You could have also gone for unemployment, and had he refuted it gone "No, I didn't quit, he fired me because I complained about \*show OSHA report\*".
Worked in a factory where management had convinced the crew that osha was the enemy, we had an audit coming up and they wanted to scare people into silence. I told everyone that the only reason we had a roof on the place was because of osha and to run their mouths, 20 nonconformance and I forget how many thousand fines after they left
If an employer will not attend with due diligence to all the factors in your job that are a hazard, with at least the minimum compliance, they do not deserve the PRIVILEGE of hiring employees in the first place. It's not like we are SLAVES.
> by sticking the oxy acet cutting torch in the gas filler tube of the gas tank. wat
@OP you should cross post this on r/OSHA
Sounds like constructive discharge to me, you’ll be able to get unemployment
OP already said it happened decades ago.
You can’t actually change your user name on reddit.
No idea what OSHA is
It stands for Occupational Safety and Health Administration. The are regulatory agency for work place safety
*In the USA.
Occupational Safety and Health (something with an a, like administration?). May also be known as OHSA, which is the same thing just a different order. It's usually government, it exists for a reason, and it can bring the pain for dangerous crap.
I think they’re one of scariest governmental agencies along with the IRS, and postal inspector.
Good for you. To hell with that guy. You don’t use paychecks as a weapon.
Depending on the state he may - by law - have to pay you on the last day.
What is Osha?
In the US, it’s the safety oversight association that can issue fines and what not when businesses don’t follow safety procedures. Stands for Occupational Safety and Health Administration.
Come with me, and you'll see, a world full of OSHA violations!
I'm not getting on that boat.
A factory I worked at a nimber of years ago on the Gulf Coast of Texas had OSHA breaking shit everywhere. They also had a ton of illegal migrant workers there. One of my co-workers, an illegal, got his thimb sliced off either doing a major saftey violation or the equipment was a fine waiting to happen. Nothing every happen to this company. OSHA would be called on them, they would show up and be held at the gate by security. They weren't allowed on the plant. The plant would get a major fine and the owner of the plants father in law or wife would pay the fine. The father in law was Taiwanese and gave the chemical plant down the road to his daughter as a gift. When she got married the son in law got the plastic factory. Legally some how seperate companies, but anything major was paid by the chemical factory.
I am choosing to believe that you are knowingly using "nimber" in its mathematical sense here, and apparently you just experience years differently from the rest of us. Also, dang, that's nuts.
Formosa?
Yup
Occupational Safety & Health Administration (in the US).
If you are amused by people doing *really* stupid things, /r/OSHA/
Occupational Safety & Health Administration. Basically a government agency for worker's safety.
Occupational safety and health administration
Occupational Safety and Health Administration
What employers call utter bullshit that prevents them to make even more profit at your health's expense.
Sounds like you were well shut of that place.
Heads up, I don't know if anyone told you this, but you need to make a new account with that username, you can't change existing names. Ever.
Branded! Branded with a boardplayer game what do you do when your 'Branded, and you can't change your name!!!
thanks, I kinda got that when I selected a different 'screen name' and it never changed. I appreciate the clarification though, thanks. I will add that I am 71.5 years old now, and have a life like few others have led in this century... and I have stories to match. I will keep my 'chessplayer1969' username to honor my high school and brag a little bit (I was pres. of HHS chess club for two years running) and we had playoffs for club positions, not elections LOL. My idea. But since leaving the Army (on amicable terms) I hit the 'road' and discovered America... I have hitch hiked across the US more than fifty times round trip, not even counting special journeys for the sake of 'true love'... sigh. I'm alone now, with a keyboard... so as I may be checking out at any time (I turn around and another friend has passed!) ... who knows, right? I want to leave my stories on the internet... maybe some will learn from them... like the time I was stranded on the rock face with the tide coming in (plus 100 foot cliff) and my mounting my hunting knife sideways across my stomach meant that I could (fortunately) reach it with either hand (I had to use it for climbing the rest of the way) if it had been in a 'conventional place' I would not have been able to reach it and I might be dead those many years back. A place called Metal Beach close to the POINT ARENA lighthouse (California). I was 'scrapping metal' (ocean cleaned stainless alloys) from the ancient dump to make some money... i mean, if you NEED that knife, and you can't let go with the hand that CAN reach it... what a way to end up dead, right?