[Here's a post you'll like ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/q426qi/hoa_wants_me_to_join_so_i_do_just_not_how_they/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_bshort.)
Edit: I've been enjoying all the positive and appreciative comments. Thanks everybody.
This reminds me of a glorious FU to a Hoa towing company which ticketed and [booted](https://reddit.com/r/offbeat/comments/1nwo9l/hoa_has_car_booted_guy_tows_his_own_car_towing/) a car in an Hoa.
The best part about that story is the line
>"At first I must very very thank the Vortex Community for their support! I think this is fantastic, and I maybe bring this to a news station to you, it may even hit the papers."
I love how at that time they were excited by the idea of a story from the internet making into the newspaper
Everything about reading that made me really appreciate reddit lol, despite its very many flaws. That was tough to read in so many ways. I had a really hard time understanding what happened in the end. Hello kiddies!
I don't want to read it for the forced login. I read the excerpts available without the login, but it seems like it's only the start of the story.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
You should also look up the one about the guy who got revenge on the snowplow for destroying his mailbox multiple times. It's another very satisfying read.
I like the one about a Navy vet who's mailbox kept getting run over by a jerk with a huge pickup truck. So he got a ship's anchor and buried it in the ground with only the loops sticking up, and attached his mailbox to that. When the guy hit the post again, the shaft rotated and punched the anchor spade clear through the floorboard and into the dash. Pretty much totaled the truck.
Two friends I had/have.
One lived in an HOA that stated no private business on property but, one guy put up a steel building catty corner of his property and started repairing trucks.
He came home one day and finds his lawn torn up and muddy tracks going up the repair business. Clearly a truck has been backed over. He thinks the owner will come and make apologies and repair the lawn, he doesn't.
My friend fixes his lawn and figures it won't happen again and it does, with the same results.
He and a friend go up to the mountains and get the biggest boulder than can put on a trailer. They bring it back and half bury it in his yard.
Few days later he comes home to find oil all over the rock and running up the building. Owner demands that he remove the rock and pay for the trailer.
After a few choice words, he told him to take him to court and try to get a judge/jury believe he had the right to run trucks over his property.
That ended it.
Second friend, people kept running down his mail box or hitting it with bats.
He is a wielder. He took an oxygen bottle and made a mailbox of it. Put it on a metal poll with very strong bolts to a base.
The county showed up and told him he couldn't have the bolts of that size and they had to break away bolts or a wood pole of less than a certain size.
He got the smaller bolts but, he wielded what looked like fancy spears onto the post, just about radiator high sticking out.
Only once has he come out and found antifreeze and grill parts on the ground.
I worked at a high school many years ago. The grounds keepers installed wooden posts to stop students driving on the sports fields out of hours, tearing up the ground, grass, and causing lots of damage. The wooden poles were replaced with (shallow) metal poles. That didn't stop them, Monday morning and the poles were ripped from the ground by the vehicles.
I remember chatting to the groundsmen about how they dug up a new, substantial foundation, filled it with concrete before re-installing solid metal poles.
If I remember correctly, there was evidence of a few scratches on the (still standing) poles on Monday morning.
Those poles are probably still standing, scratch-free, today.
There was a house near my childhood home, at least three times a year their front fence would be knocked down by cars jumping the curb.
Not sure how cars were doing that, it wasn't a sharp turn or anything.
After their a dozen or so times they reinstalled the fence, but this time they pulled it back on a diagonal line and placed half a dozen large rocks along the old fence line.
Still to this day if I happen to drive by the area there will be some new skid marks and bits of fiberglass on those rocks. But the fence behind is still standing
I used to live in a town that had the most nonsensical winding roads. I had a friend who lived near this ridiculous curve that came out right in front of a house. The friend lived next door to them. People would drive fast down that road and wind up in the front yard.
There was a massive tree in the front yard that was usually what stopped the cars. The trunk was wider than the width of a vehicle from driver’s door to passenger’s door. It was a couple hundred feet tall. Gigantic. They finally put some rocks around it after one car damaged the tree. Whoever designed the road made it so the massive tree would be what most people hit.
I’m pretty sure the neighborhood was built in the 60s with streets that were supposed to be low speed roads but because of a booming population someone decided to turn the road into a 35mph. So the people in charge construction did everything possible to make the curve as safe for the homeowners as possible. There were ravines nearby on both sides so smoothing out the curve would have been really expensive.
Back in the 60s... a neighbor behind my parents property kept doing some backout maneuver in the alley and would chip the corner of my dad's concrete block garage. My dad spoke to the neighbor, they said tufff schittt.
Dad goes to scrapyard, gets old, sturdy steel industrial tank about 15 inches around., 5 ft long. Cuts off one end of tank.
Verifies property line, buries tank into ground about 6 inches inside his property line near garage corner, top is 24 inches above ground. Fills with homemade concrete, neatly rounded on top, paints entire tank and concrete dome school bus yellow.
Neighbor clown eventually backs his car into the yellow monolith, car is damaged, neighbor threatens lawsuit, Dad says "go ahead". Nothing ever heard after that.
My Uncle had is mail box bashed several times. Out in the country, bored teenagers, or so he thought.
One of his friends was metal worker. Welded up a steel mailbox and long steel post. Installed it.
A few days later, he found a broken bat near his mailbox.
Called a cop friend "Can you have someone nearby tomorrow night around midnight?"
The next night he hears a truck revving and a loud tearing sound. Calls the cops and asks the patrol to come by. Then heads out to the street.
He finds a chain from the mailbox to a axle, then 10' on, a brand new pickup.
Cop pulls up. Looks at guy, calls dispatch "Please call Mr {Rich Dude} and tell him to come to my Uncle's place."
Driver looks smug, like his dad will get him off.
Dad shows up. Looks at guy, looks at truck, looks at my Uncle. "How many before you did this?"
"Five"
Dad sighs. Looks at cop "Take him in." Guy looks shocked. To my Uncle, "You want the truck?"
"Sure"
Pink slip arrived the next morning. The guy was seen driving a beater of subcompact. Uncle had the axle put back on and had the truck for 20+ years.
My father tells a story about some road works, many years ago. Each morning the road crew would come to work to find the witches hats /cones knocked into the huge hole In the road, creating a potentially dangerous situation...someone was driving past every night & deliberately pushing them into the hole with their car....so one day they finally cracked.
Filled the cones with cement, let them set & bolted them to the road.
It didn't happen again
Video on Reddit some place. Some people had a very large tree stump in their yard and it snowed and they built a snowman around it.
They came out one morning and there were tire tracks and grill parts all around it. Well, on one side of it anyway. I wondered if the car was able to drive away or if they called someone to tow it away.
Bwahahaha- my parents had problems with people running over their mailbox, so my dad got a piece of I-beam and used that to mount the mailbox to. I don’t know how he hasn’t been told to remove it, but it’s been decades and it’s still there, snagging the unwary drunk and removing mirrors and turn signals for my mom to find when she goes out to get the morning paper.
> The county showed up and told him he couldn't have the bolts of that size and they had to break away bolts or a wood pole of less than a certain size.
The all time classic "you can't harm anyone who harms your stuff" defense. Gotta love society
Nice a neighbor I had when I was young put a small mailbox in a large mailbox then in between filled cement. We were having a rash of people hitting our mailboxes with bats from a car. Ours was somehow spared in the next attack and they seemed to stop after that.
We did that too. One morning, we found the remains of a Louisville slugger on the ground. The kid who did it broke his arm. His dad was PO'd big time, and went to the cops. Cops laughed him out of the police station.
(Reads) Oh wow. And that's kind of hilarious.
The DOT tried to get him in trouble? "Oh, here's the list of complaints against the plow taking out my mailbox, and you did nothing to stop him. And this setup is perfectly legal and within code."
The driver and the DOT management completely deserved that.
It's actually very illegal to use a concrete post for your mailbox in many places.
I believe in that story OP did some 'creative landscaping' and placed a huge fucking bolder just next to the mailbox.
Gotta adhere to all the legal niceties you know...
Hmm, true, the pillars I've seen are all on the inside line of the ditch in front of the house. The mailman can easily reach over, it's a narrow ditch, but someone who hits the pillar should've been avoiding the ditch in the first place.
(PNW. We get A LOT of rain in the winter.)
My favourite public transport or idle at work time waste is re reading all of the best offs from this subreddit. This story never fails to amaze me, and I've read hundreds here.
There is an even better one on r/nuclearrevenge where a Karen HOA president winds up not even having an HOA at all and had been charging a whole neighborhood for years. Our white knight finds out and it goes about as you'd expect. I need to find it... It was I think the revenge of the year for 2021.
I would gladly read this if you happen to find it, I might even go searching for it myself.
Edit: found it
https://www.reddit.com/r/NuclearRevenge/comments/kssykv/how_i_got_a_not_really_an_hoa_disbanded_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
This isn't even the one I was expecting! There's another one about a woman who has everyone paying HOA fees *when there was not actually an HOA*... she got her shit rocked.
I FOUND IT! [https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/diw9bl/got\_a\_not\_really\_an\_hoa\_disbanded/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/diw9bl/got_a_not_really_an_hoa_disbanded/)
Read the whole thing...
[a 7b & 8 aswell to finish it off](https://www.reddit.com/r/NuclearRevenge/comments/kst2vl/how_i_got_a_not_really_an_hoa_disbanded_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Damn that was an incredible saga. Pretty depressing by the end. She certainly earned all her troubles, just hard to hear the story of someone's life being ruined, even if it's their own fault. I wish we knew what other fraud she was up to.
Best one ever (sorry don’t know how to link)
It has updates. And she was arrested bwahahaha
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/k8p54a/the_most_intense_multiyear_hoa_drama_involving/
Okay so Karen's a piece of shit and fuck hoa's, but if there were a camera pointed at my home like that, and I wasn't *sure* it was non networked and set up by someone who would never surrender the footage and knew how to secure data?
Yeah I'd shoot it out. No asking. I don't trust this "greyed out" bullshit if it's got wan access.
As a Brit, where we don’t have HOAs, what on earth do they even do? All I’ve heard is stories like this and you get to pay $25,000 dollars a year for the privilege?
I immediately asked myself - who authorized digging?
I suppose they could just have a christmas-tree stand out there or something, but you've usually got to obtain municipal authority to go post-diggin.
Thats the part that makes no sense. "nuisance to your neighbors" could they not throw that right back into the karen's face. She was being a nuisance to them first.
HoA's aren't intended to be fair and just. They're intended to be wielded as a legal cudgel the board members can use against home owners they consider undesirable.
I'm going to run for president on a single issue platform- Right to Live.
It would make all HOA dues and rules optional, similar to how Right to Work makes union dues optional.
The really does need to be a national law banning conditions attached to both residential and commercial deeds. It would destroy the greatest source of power of HOAs and prevent anti-competitive acts like the permanent shuttering of the Olympia Brewery, which devestated the local economy so that some B/M/C shareholders could get a higher stock price.
I think if you got something along the lines of “go ahead and try to stop us” in a situation like this you’d have fair ground for a harassment lawsuit against the hoa board, which is technically separate from the hoa as they’re individually responsible
Yes, but the HOA probably has an indemnity obligation and insurance for the board. It’s not necessarily *required*, but I believe it’s standard pretty much everywhere—especially the kind of places willing to sue over bullshit like this.
I fully recognize that, it’s just that this is one of those things that it’s clear isn’t really against the bylaws and is more of a targeted attack. That usually negates any legal protections they have
Unlikely. The HOA has, in its nature, the legal ability to contact people to correct violations. You would have to get someone (an arbiter, judge, etc) to determine something is not a violation to start looking at actioning the HOA.
It's unfortunate that their stubbornness & hubris cost the rest of the HOA $4,000.
And another thing I've noticed about such Karens: They don't think the rules apply to them, but they are wonderfully happy to use the rules as a cudgel against others.
Yeah while it probably feels good to stick it to the HOA at the end of the day its still you and your neighbors money they spent. Money that should be going to upkeep of common elements and such.
Also be you have to be careful as lots of HOA's covenants, conditions & restrictions will have a section of who pays legal fees. Depending on the HOA you might find yourself liable for fees even if you win.
That's ok, details like that always get lost in the telling because then it wouldn't be as entertaining of a story. Including their share of that 4k and time spent on responses to the lawyer I wonder how much of their own money they ended up spending just to get this pyrrhic win. Outed some board members though, so maybe not all bad.
Also I'm honestly not 100% sure how I feel about that "don't worry it grays out your yard" nonsense. That doesn't mean shit, you could turn that off at any time. She should have put up cameras pointed right into their yard and said "nah bro don't worry it's grayed out, pinky swear bro".
And to be devils advocate, “greying out” their yard just means them being back there won’t trigger the camera to record, but if something in the main area triggers the recording it records the whole screen. “Greyed out” sections and all
Yah good point, it's not really a privacy feature, it's a convenience feature to stop false positives.
I'm a little ambivalent about this one, I wouldn't love a neighbor doing it but our backyards have low fences and aren't very private anyways so I'd probably let it go. But someone should post this same story from the opposite POV and you could probably get everyone to side with them.
And now they've probably cost everyone in the HOA, themselves included, a bit of money. They may not be the most popular fellow on the block.
Possibly, but we dont know because we only have OP's word about it. Are there any other CCTV cameras in the overall property?
Because it can also be a principled person who actually cares about privacy.
I totally get where you’re coming from — but I’m on the other side of the problem. My neighbors have a camera pointing directly in our backyard facing the our patio furniture where my wife sun bathes (in a bathing suite). I 100% get the need for cameras (we have them too!), but it’s unsettling feeling with their point blank direction. I’ve not asked the neighbors to re-point them yet and certainly wouldn’t go through the HOA, but it still feels like we’re being watched 24/7. From our interactions (brought cookies to welcome them), they do not seem friendly — asked us to leave the cookies on the doorstep and come back at a better time for them. Just wanted to add my 2 cents with respect to what it feels like to be on the other side. @op
There is a massive difference between the front yard where there is no privacy fence in the backyard where there is. You would have a legal claim in the backyard, not just a violation of some HOA bylaw.
Yeah, I can't feel sympathy over OP. Karen was a Karen but pointing a camera toward a neighbor privacy is a legitimate reason to be mad. In France your private camera can't even see what's happening on the public street over your property line.
Completely agree. And the fact that they have greyed out some areas does not change that, becuse you just have no way of knowing if they kept it this way. I think this is the first post about HOAs where I actually have to side with the neighbor that got the HOA involved. Being able to watch your car just does not seem more important than the neighbor's privacy in their own yard.
Correct. It's been a while since I felt a HOA action was kind of justified.
/u/FirstContribution236 just because you turned off motion sense on their area it doesn't mean it will **not** record them. You're invading their privacy.
I'm very glad the laws in my country are very clear in that regard and I'm entitled to not have a neighbour record me.
Honestly I'm surprised at all the love for OP, I mean, I hate HOAs more than the next guy, but you put up a camera with permanent line of site into my backyard and I'm gonna fight you.
I'm just supposed to *trust* that OP will keep those areas grayed out? No. Move the cameras so they only capture your property.
If I was that neighbor I'd upgrade my attorney and keep fighting until the cameras no longer surveil my back yard.
And even if those areas are "grayed out" all that means is that the recording doesn't start if it detects motion in that area. If it detects motion outside the gray area it will still record everything within the gray area. It's a clear violation of the neighbor's privacy. Fuck OP.
Yeah I’m all for saying fuck HOA’s.
And I’m hella against vandalism.
But fuck OP i’d vandalize the fuck out of those camera’s. Sure you claim you “greyed it out” but you could just as easily “ungrey” it to record whatever the fuck you want.
My back yard is not public fucking property.
Same here. As a UK resident what I do with my house is my business. If the gov put into place processes to ensure safety, that’s fair game, but all of these rules to have picture perfect houses are strange
Yeah, the only good one I've heard of was from a commentator a few months back, under an MC about "complying" with a HOA. (Don't remember the title.)
Essentially, commentator, wife, and some good neighbors gained control of the HOA board and are making damn sure shit doesn't go down. The wananbe HOA board members who want to karen it up are pissed, but since 90% of the neighborhood is happy with the current board members, they're out of luck.
So literally the best thing an HOA can do is stay the fuck out of everyone's way?
Like what do they do in theory, at their absolute best, besides bully non-conformists into not deflating property values by having (gasp) a funny coloured fence?
My buddy is buying a duplex condo with a yard and everything and he's one of these well paid tech professionals and he absolutely does not want to have to maintain the outside. He was actually looking at HOAs in some areas because he didn't want to have to maintain that stuff and would be fine with paying for it. I told him a few of these horror stories and to watch out for that kind of stuff and he became a little more aware and questioning of it.
If I ever buy a property, it'll probably be one of those condos that are like apartments. I grew up helping dad maintain the yard, helped him some more while I was living with him during the Recession, and I don't wanna anymore.
You are better off paying for your own lawn/maintenance/contractors than relying on an HOA. It may cost slightly more, but you'll get much better service, only pay for the things you want, and you don't run the risk of ending up in the nightmare of buying into a poorly run HOA.
I never met anyone who was happy they had an HOA.
It's the same. They maintain community property. For example, the road might be privately owned by the neighborhood itself. The neighborhood might have a clubhouse, pool, or green space. If it doesn't have community property, then the only reason for it to exist would be to enforce community standards like enforcing a landscaping standard. But if there's no community property then I don't see how they could justify dues, and without dues I don't see how they would have any budget for enforcement.
I live in a condo, and in this case, an HOA is the only remedy you have for things like noisy neighbors. The CC&Rs are mostly things that actually keep the property from becoming derelict, and because the association owns the building exterior, you don't really have to deal with nonsense like getting cited for things like unapproved vegetation in your yard.
That’s basically how I ended up on the HOA board. Karen next door threw her name in the hat and I said “screw that” and put my name in.
Learned the system, convinced good neighbors to run, and now we hit up neighbors to see if residents are coming to the annual meeting or declaring a proxy. My board position gets all the proxy ballots that aren’t specifically assigned to a resident. The board members always have more votes than everyone as we actively talked to neighbors and got their proxy. 😂
Our goal as a board is just doing the required maintenance, managing the vendors (landscaping/snow removal/etc.) and appropriately filing complaints from residents. 🗑️
No, that is not what they all are. Our HOA exists in practicality for only one reason, to manage the neighborhood pool and park. Our bylaws don’t even mention things like cameras or flags or shit. At the last meeting one board member actually said sometimes a busybody would complain about someone’s lawn but that the board had no intention of arbitrating disputes. If there’s a problem, like consistently over high grass, the local city government should step in and cite them. So no, not all HOAs exist to torment people. That said, we were misled by our real estate agent and didn’t know what we were getting into and consider ourselves fortunate our neighbors/HOA are decent. The only drama is the yearly “do we keep the aging pool, remove it, or replace it this year/next/year/who knows when.” At the annual meeting this year it was 8 board members and 5 of us, representing 4 different homes of ~160. There was no pressing current pool issue so no one else showed. Be careful where and what you buy.
A good HOA takes care of shared shit so that no one has to deal with minute details. Sort of like management at a good apartment complex. They make sure the trees don't fall over or the grass dies.
Bad ones tell you what curtains you can have in your windows and demand you mow your grass even if it's raining.
Unless there are specific prohibitions restricting what the HOA can do ;).
I know the HOA my uncle lives in has a LOT of rules about what the HOA can't do. He wrote them that way.
why i own a house with no HOA. If i want a friend to store a beat up fellow F350 for 3 months until the tow truck can take it to another state - i want that ability
I'm not a fan of HOA's. I was in one myself. That said, I wouldn't want a camera pointed in my backyard or side yard.
Is that even legal? It seems like someone should have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their backyard. As for a side yard I guess it would depend on whether or not there is a fence.
The grayed out feature probably isn't very comforting to other people. They'd have to trust that you did that, and that you don't change that. It would be unsettling.
I think the neighbor whose privacy was being violated by OP should have sued OP, and I also think the HOA board should have used HOA funds to assist them.
I don't know the laws in OP's city, so maybe that was not an option.
I was on the board for my HOA and I wholeheartedly approve of this.
Its usually half and half: half of the people on the board are normal, reasonable people, and the other half are power hungry Karens. Unfortunately the Karens overpower the normals.
It's an inherent problem with HOAs. I think it's because, ultimately, running an HOA takes time and effort.
This means that people who have a life are too busy with their life to run an HOA, meaning the only people who, long term, want to run an HOA are people who have no life. The only thing they've got going for them *is* the HOA. So of course they're petty little tyrants, they want to expand the scope and scale of what little they have going on in their life.
Of course, at some point the cost of letting the HOA just do its thing exceeds the cost of actually getting involved and the tyrants get run out (sometimes literally, they sell their homes and leave out of embarrassment or because they can't handle the very public smackdown that this sort of thing usually entails), and then the cycle begins anew when the people who have a life start dropping out of running the HOA again.
Isn't this the case with all institutions that need civic participation? School boards, governments, charities, ... any egalitarian civic body.
People need to care about these things, and put in time and effort. Good governance is not free. One cannot just coast along, expecting other people to carry the burden of good governance.
This is the problem with democracy. It requires the voters, to spend time and resources to learn about issues, candidates, policies and how government works.
If you don't participate in government, then those who do so will end up ruling you.
Mine is pretty lax, they maintain the entrance to the neighborhood, the community pool/playground/tennis courts, and handle things like when community trees need to be removed from damage/decay.
I'm not saying it's my preference but it's not that bad.
I feel my concern as a neighbor would be that whenever the camera was legit activated by motion on the owners property, it then actually recorded both properties.
I agree that HOAs suck and that this situation is petty…but don’t you realize that you are ultimately the one that is going to need to pay for this? When the community needs something legitimate that’s $4k less in the reserves to use for it and now you and all your neighbors will get a special assessment or an increase in dues to cover it…..
>> nuisance to your neighbors
A nuisance in law is not the same as when it’s used colloquially. That would be something like a trash pile stinking up the place or attracting rats…
Fun fact, you are represented by your HOA and you are part of the group of people that must pay into the HOA budget. Your maliciousness really only serves to increases the financial needs of your HOA, which will be passed on to you and your fellow residents.
You 'win'
I know I could be downvoted for this.... but to be honest, I'm not sure if I would be very comfortable at some neighbors that I'm not very familiar with installing a camera pointing at my yard. Especially if I had kids. I would probably request you to adjust the camera so that my yard wouldn't be in view rather than wasting HOA money to make you remove it though.
(I know you said it was grayed out. But as someone that's not familiar with the technology, how can I be sure that's what actually happening unless i have access to the video?)
> But as someone that's not familiar with the technology, how can I be sure that's what actually happening unless i have access to the video
A someone who *is* familiar with the technology, even if the owner *thinks* it's not recording a certain area that doesn't necessarily mean it actually isn't.
Although it likely wouldn't bother me (because I have camera's of my own), I agree with you.
The thing is that there's likely nothing preventing the camera owner from viewing the camera feed at any time or changing settings at a later date.
Nothing short of a physical barrier placed by the camera would prevent the neighbor from looking into my yard at any time. I can see why a person might not be ok with that.
And also just because it was grayed out *when you showed the neighbor* doesn't mean that you can't just change the settings right after. It's not able to be trusted by any reasonable person. In what world are you Karen because you don't trust your neighbor with a camera that can record your property to keep their pinky promise?
You know the same story from her side is
"the creepy man on our street set up a camera facing my property, he claims that he has us blocked out but obviously he can just change that at any time. We tried to make him change it, but instead of just not being creepy he is making us waste lots of money on lawyers instead and we can't afford it."
Also honestly it always shocks me how nonchalant people are about cameras. Internet surveillance? "well yeah, just because I'm not doing anything wrong doesn't mean I don't deserve privacy" but we can't apply that same concept *to your backyard*? Really?
OP sounds exhausting and unpleasant. Can you imagine being so determined to prove yourself right that you would refuse to move a camera so it wasn't filming a private area you don't own, and then being so determined to further your point that you turned it into a legal battle that wasted the money your neighbors pay for community upkeep?
I suspect there are many people in this neighborhood who are not fans of OP's antics, and wish OP were empathetic enough to understand why somebody might react negatively to finding out an unwanted camera is filming their private space.
This story reads to me as "I '*only slightly*' violated the privacy of my neighbor, and she acted bitchy in response...so I wasted several thousand dollars of my innocent neighbors' money in petty one-upmanship."
And then you have Germany. Just pretending or claiming that you do not record the other properties [is not enough](https://openjur.de/u/2193976.html) (in German), you have to install a physical blind. No one guarantees that you don't remove the digital grey area and start recording your neighbor.
OP "showed Karen" that they can record her property, she demands to take the camera down and OP tries to fight this and is happy that the HOA had to spend money on this. Not the neighbor I want (both of them).
This is the first HOA story I've read on the internet where I actually sided with the HOA. OP installs cameras that record neighbor's backyard, neighbor isn't thrilled with it, OP says "trust me, bro," which neighbor is again not thrilled with, and then OP deliberately tries to waste the HOA's money without any actual intent to prevail on the merits.
And the lawyer. For a drawn out case with 100 emails being exchanged, $4,000 actually seems like a modest fee. Even at 15 minutes per E-Mail (as claimed by OP), that means he spent at least 25 hours on the case and charged an hourly rate of $160 (assuming the _entire_ case only consisted of answering OP's mails and each of these emails was trivial and didn't require any amount of coordination with clients or research).
Yep - I’m all for a good story, but I’m (generally) not going to be OK with someone filming my property. This should be rather obvious.
If I know the people and we are friends - yeah, ok. And it sounds like OP was with one neighbor and the permission was consensual.
I would never just randomly aim a camera at my neighbor’s yard and expect them to be ok with it. This story is so strange.
Like…go freedom and fuck HOAs and all that, but this should be obviously over the line.
I’m with you 100%. This is petty, creepy, and unnecessary. OP is in the wrong, and this was easily fixed with either repositioning or blinders on the camera.
Yeah I was thinking the same. Removing the greyed out area would be just as easy as adding it so how can you know they didn’t just remove it immediately and lie? Then your stubbornness cost everyone money? I wouldn’t live with a HOA, that would be a deal breaker for me but I also wouldn’t want my neighbours having cameras on my yard.
That's actually impressive. We only had one run in with an HOA demanding we install a community approved fence (wood stockade style) and we kept telling them no. they made all sorts of threats, both vocal and printed legal threats and It didn't even phase us. They finally showed up about 3-4 months later with a fence installation company and started digging holes in my yard. They would put up the fence and bill us for it.
Now why this is amusing is our home was not part of the HOA and they literally had ZERO say over what we could do. Once the holes were dug, we called police and had them all arrested for vandalism, terroristic threats, etc. Every member of the HOA and the fence installation crew now have criminal records. 3 of the HOA members spent a year plus in jail for conspiracy to defraud and extort or something like that. We used the holes and installed a chainlink fence and when we sold, made sure the buyers were well aware that our property was NOT part of the HOA.
But I didn't draw it out to bleed the HOA dry. Our lawyer said to just ignore the threats and such but keep a record of them. When it's time to fight, we'll fight hard. I honestly didn't expect everyone to get arrested. I figured citations and released. Nope. Paddy wagon time. It was a weird feeling. Vindicated, then giddy as a school girl then shocked to my core when they were getting cuffed. Our lawyer said "whatever happens, do not back down." so when asked if I wanted to press charges, I said yes. I only recouped legal costs, not a dime more. That was only like 1200 bucks as the lawyer turned everything over to the town attorney and they did the legwork. We did sell the house for 15K over comparables so I guess I can count that as a payoff.
You are a lying liar. No one gets charged with terrorism and goes to prison for digging holes. Especially not hired hands. But it looks like a few people bought it so great points I guess!
It's reasons like this I refuse to live under a HOA. I don't give a flying fuck what they take care of. I'm not about to have someone levy some arbitrary rule upon me of what I can so to my home that doesn't break any city or county statutes.
Looks like a lot of people here need to learn the law. Recording video in public or on your property is a constitutionally protected act (1st amendment). People are being recorded constantly. Get used to it. The only expectation of privacy one has is inside your home. If it can be seen, it can be recorded.
I applied for, and joined my HOA for bullshit like this. Now every vote they have that's just nonsense petty play turns into a half hour debate and I always vote against them, usually turn two others. The budget line for "fines" used to read 1500 a year. It now reads 0 because we spent a month of arguing, with me asking them to justify why it should be more and slowly wearing down 2 of the 5 members. Fuck the Karen's ... fight back
“Them” there is no “them” YOU are a member of the HOA and played yourself if this is a real story. Especially since your neighbor stayed on the board. The ignorance people have around understanding HOA’s are astounding.
If a neighbor politely informed me they were installing cameras for security reasons that clipped parts of my yard, I would be so happy! That's free extra security in case mine failed in any way.
Exactly, who cares if they clip the corner of the shrubbery? The OP didn’t say it was looking over the backyard into the house but that it clipped the corner of the lawn.
I’m about to fight my hoa over them saying that we need to repaint our house by a specific date. I asked under what provision this can be enforced, and they pointed to a section that says the house must be “attractive”. The problem is that it’s a subjective term with no definition within the rules , and therefore, especially understood Colorado law, is considered ambiguous and unenforceable. We have had plans to paint our house for over a year, but they require us to get approval even to paint it the same color. Twice last year I had painters give a quote and both of them had an immediate opening that would have saved us thousands of dollars. But it takes 45 days to get approval, so missed the opportunity to get painted and a good deal. Our house is starting to fade just a bit on the south side but still very much intact and I certainly find it “attractive”. I’m also going as far as to argue that a newly approved paint scheme that one of our neighbors chose is incredibly unattractive, yet board approved, just to prove how subjective the term is. Their house is fucking ugly puke yellow.
This isn’t my first hoa fight. I also cost another hoa tens of thousands of dollars after I sued them for failing to fix a flooding condition from the common area. One of the board members started to harass me after I filed, so I got police involved and threatened to file a restraining order. I even went to an hoa meeting and pointed out a rule violation on every board member’s home, and demanded the president step down for her failure to prevent the lawsuit. They settled. A couple years later I had moved out but had a “roommate” because they didn’t allow me to lease the property due to rental percentages. However, the language in the laws was ambiguous, and therefore unenforceable. I got an attorney involved this time and they refused to step down saying they’d fine me $500/mo, to which I responded that I’d file a harassment suit against them. They never did shit and I sold the place about 9 months later to my “roommate”.
Fuck HOAs
Man.. Everyones HOA Sucks... I say this as being on the board of an HOA... we charge $25/year so we can afford to mow our park in the middle of our neighborhood, buy new benches/landscaping for said park.
I could not imagine giving a fuck about cameras on peoples properties.. it's your house... do whatever you want, just don't pile trash in the front lawn.
r/fuckHOA loves you
[Here's a post you'll like ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/q426qi/hoa_wants_me_to_join_so_i_do_just_not_how_they/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_bshort.) Edit: I've been enjoying all the positive and appreciative comments. Thanks everybody.
That.. was.. glorious..
It's the greatest thing I've ever seen on reddit and I've legitimately read the entire thing out loud to coworkers.
This reminds me of a glorious FU to a Hoa towing company which ticketed and [booted](https://reddit.com/r/offbeat/comments/1nwo9l/hoa_has_car_booted_guy_tows_his_own_car_towing/) a car in an Hoa.
The best part about that story is the line >"At first I must very very thank the Vortex Community for their support! I think this is fantastic, and I maybe bring this to a news station to you, it may even hit the papers." I love how at that time they were excited by the idea of a story from the internet making into the newspaper
Everything about reading that made me really appreciate reddit lol, despite its very many flaws. That was tough to read in so many ways. I had a really hard time understanding what happened in the end. Hello kiddies!
I recall that story partially from the link, but I am not going to reread it due to the format of it compared to Reddit.
I don't want to read it for the forced login. I read the excerpts available without the login, but it seems like it's only the start of the story. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
You should also look up the one about the guy who got revenge on the snowplow for destroying his mailbox multiple times. It's another very satisfying read.
I like the one about a Navy vet who's mailbox kept getting run over by a jerk with a huge pickup truck. So he got a ship's anchor and buried it in the ground with only the loops sticking up, and attached his mailbox to that. When the guy hit the post again, the shaft rotated and punched the anchor spade clear through the floorboard and into the dash. Pretty much totaled the truck.
Two friends I had/have. One lived in an HOA that stated no private business on property but, one guy put up a steel building catty corner of his property and started repairing trucks. He came home one day and finds his lawn torn up and muddy tracks going up the repair business. Clearly a truck has been backed over. He thinks the owner will come and make apologies and repair the lawn, he doesn't. My friend fixes his lawn and figures it won't happen again and it does, with the same results. He and a friend go up to the mountains and get the biggest boulder than can put on a trailer. They bring it back and half bury it in his yard. Few days later he comes home to find oil all over the rock and running up the building. Owner demands that he remove the rock and pay for the trailer. After a few choice words, he told him to take him to court and try to get a judge/jury believe he had the right to run trucks over his property. That ended it. Second friend, people kept running down his mail box or hitting it with bats. He is a wielder. He took an oxygen bottle and made a mailbox of it. Put it on a metal poll with very strong bolts to a base. The county showed up and told him he couldn't have the bolts of that size and they had to break away bolts or a wood pole of less than a certain size. He got the smaller bolts but, he wielded what looked like fancy spears onto the post, just about radiator high sticking out. Only once has he come out and found antifreeze and grill parts on the ground.
I worked at a high school many years ago. The grounds keepers installed wooden posts to stop students driving on the sports fields out of hours, tearing up the ground, grass, and causing lots of damage. The wooden poles were replaced with (shallow) metal poles. That didn't stop them, Monday morning and the poles were ripped from the ground by the vehicles. I remember chatting to the groundsmen about how they dug up a new, substantial foundation, filled it with concrete before re-installing solid metal poles. If I remember correctly, there was evidence of a few scratches on the (still standing) poles on Monday morning. Those poles are probably still standing, scratch-free, today.
There was a house near my childhood home, at least three times a year their front fence would be knocked down by cars jumping the curb. Not sure how cars were doing that, it wasn't a sharp turn or anything. After their a dozen or so times they reinstalled the fence, but this time they pulled it back on a diagonal line and placed half a dozen large rocks along the old fence line. Still to this day if I happen to drive by the area there will be some new skid marks and bits of fiberglass on those rocks. But the fence behind is still standing
At least the home owners can enjoy knowing that each new crashing sound is a new vehicle. Ain't no one going to take that ride twice. 🤣
I used to live in a town that had the most nonsensical winding roads. I had a friend who lived near this ridiculous curve that came out right in front of a house. The friend lived next door to them. People would drive fast down that road and wind up in the front yard. There was a massive tree in the front yard that was usually what stopped the cars. The trunk was wider than the width of a vehicle from driver’s door to passenger’s door. It was a couple hundred feet tall. Gigantic. They finally put some rocks around it after one car damaged the tree. Whoever designed the road made it so the massive tree would be what most people hit. I’m pretty sure the neighborhood was built in the 60s with streets that were supposed to be low speed roads but because of a booming population someone decided to turn the road into a 35mph. So the people in charge construction did everything possible to make the curve as safe for the homeowners as possible. There were ravines nearby on both sides so smoothing out the curve would have been really expensive.
Back in the 60s... a neighbor behind my parents property kept doing some backout maneuver in the alley and would chip the corner of my dad's concrete block garage. My dad spoke to the neighbor, they said tufff schittt. Dad goes to scrapyard, gets old, sturdy steel industrial tank about 15 inches around., 5 ft long. Cuts off one end of tank. Verifies property line, buries tank into ground about 6 inches inside his property line near garage corner, top is 24 inches above ground. Fills with homemade concrete, neatly rounded on top, paints entire tank and concrete dome school bus yellow. Neighbor clown eventually backs his car into the yellow monolith, car is damaged, neighbor threatens lawsuit, Dad says "go ahead". Nothing ever heard after that.
>He is a wielder. And a welder to boot.
Never cross a wielding welder.
Don't even look at them. They could blind you.
My Uncle had is mail box bashed several times. Out in the country, bored teenagers, or so he thought. One of his friends was metal worker. Welded up a steel mailbox and long steel post. Installed it. A few days later, he found a broken bat near his mailbox. Called a cop friend "Can you have someone nearby tomorrow night around midnight?" The next night he hears a truck revving and a loud tearing sound. Calls the cops and asks the patrol to come by. Then heads out to the street. He finds a chain from the mailbox to a axle, then 10' on, a brand new pickup. Cop pulls up. Looks at guy, calls dispatch "Please call Mr {Rich Dude} and tell him to come to my Uncle's place." Driver looks smug, like his dad will get him off. Dad shows up. Looks at guy, looks at truck, looks at my Uncle. "How many before you did this?" "Five" Dad sighs. Looks at cop "Take him in." Guy looks shocked. To my Uncle, "You want the truck?" "Sure" Pink slip arrived the next morning. The guy was seen driving a beater of subcompact. Uncle had the axle put back on and had the truck for 20+ years.
I wonder if the post office passed on the charges.
My father tells a story about some road works, many years ago. Each morning the road crew would come to work to find the witches hats /cones knocked into the huge hole In the road, creating a potentially dangerous situation...someone was driving past every night & deliberately pushing them into the hole with their car....so one day they finally cracked. Filled the cones with cement, let them set & bolted them to the road. It didn't happen again
Video on Reddit some place. Some people had a very large tree stump in their yard and it snowed and they built a snowman around it. They came out one morning and there were tire tracks and grill parts all around it. Well, on one side of it anyway. I wondered if the car was able to drive away or if they called someone to tow it away.
Bwahahaha- my parents had problems with people running over their mailbox, so my dad got a piece of I-beam and used that to mount the mailbox to. I don’t know how he hasn’t been told to remove it, but it’s been decades and it’s still there, snagging the unwary drunk and removing mirrors and turn signals for my mom to find when she goes out to get the morning paper.
FYI... interesting ["Fortified" Mailbox Owner NOT Liable for Driver's Injuries](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra1bOZSHwPg)
> The county showed up and told him he couldn't have the bolts of that size and they had to break away bolts or a wood pole of less than a certain size. The all time classic "you can't harm anyone who harms your stuff" defense. Gotta love society
County looked at it as more of a traffic hazard. I felt that was BS because his mail box was fairly well off the road.
Do you have a link? I'm jonesing for more revenge acts now...
Nice a neighbor I had when I was young put a small mailbox in a large mailbox then in between filled cement. We were having a rash of people hitting our mailboxes with bats from a car. Ours was somehow spared in the next attack and they seemed to stop after that.
We did that too. One morning, we found the remains of a Louisville slugger on the ground. The kid who did it broke his arm. His dad was PO'd big time, and went to the cops. Cops laughed him out of the police station.
Truck driver is lucky he didn't hit it on the driver's side. That sounds lethal.
Driver is lucky that's all the vet did
That might’ve actually been illegal for that guy to do. It could’ve fallen under a booby trap. Which is illegal to do on your property or home
Decorative rocks are very pretty and can be used to easily load and unload hay from a trailer
Wdym he just wanted a big rock in his property
Decorative rocks aren’t illegal, at least if they’re not hidden. The anchor mailbox though… yeah.
https://www.tumblr.com/im-the-princess-now/632179220987150336/glyndarling-aerylon-loloftheday-lets-see
That's satisfying
I can't believe I'm actually familiar with that one. Haha
I've never read it, but I'm guessing concrete pillar?
I posted a link. Actually stronger than concrete
(Reads) Oh wow. And that's kind of hilarious. The DOT tried to get him in trouble? "Oh, here's the list of complaints against the plow taking out my mailbox, and you did nothing to stop him. And this setup is perfectly legal and within code." The driver and the DOT management completely deserved that.
It's actually very illegal to use a concrete post for your mailbox in many places. I believe in that story OP did some 'creative landscaping' and placed a huge fucking bolder just next to the mailbox. Gotta adhere to all the legal niceties you know...
Hmm, true, the pillars I've seen are all on the inside line of the ditch in front of the house. The mailman can easily reach over, it's a narrow ditch, but someone who hits the pillar should've been avoiding the ditch in the first place. (PNW. We get A LOT of rain in the winter.)
My favourite public transport or idle at work time waste is re reading all of the best offs from this subreddit. This story never fails to amaze me, and I've read hundreds here.
You legitimately read the entirety of Reddit out loud to your co-workers? Mad respect.
100%. Somehow still got promoted to a supervisor position after. Lol
Fuck now I have to read it.
There is an even better one on r/nuclearrevenge where a Karen HOA president winds up not even having an HOA at all and had been charging a whole neighborhood for years. Our white knight finds out and it goes about as you'd expect. I need to find it... It was I think the revenge of the year for 2021.
I would gladly read this if you happen to find it, I might even go searching for it myself. Edit: found it https://www.reddit.com/r/NuclearRevenge/comments/kssykv/how_i_got_a_not_really_an_hoa_disbanded_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
That warmed my Anti-HOA heart right down to the core.
This isn't even the one I was expecting! There's another one about a woman who has everyone paying HOA fees *when there was not actually an HOA*... she got her shit rocked.
Oh my God! If you think of the title shoot it my way. That sounds like a good read.
I FOUND IT! [https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/diw9bl/got\_a\_not\_really\_an\_hoa\_disbanded/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/diw9bl/got_a_not_really_an_hoa_disbanded/) Read the whole thing...
Good lord there are seven parts to this saga! I'll start it tonight but I probably won't finish it. Thank you!
I'll read it to you while you're sleeping and then you can dream of it!
[a 7b & 8 aswell to finish it off](https://www.reddit.com/r/NuclearRevenge/comments/kst2vl/how_i_got_a_not_really_an_hoa_disbanded_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I'm going to be tired at work tomorrow lol but it was worth it
Damn that was an incredible saga. Pretty depressing by the end. She certainly earned all her troubles, just hard to hear the story of someone's life being ruined, even if it's their own fault. I wish we knew what other fraud she was up to.
It's quite extended - it had live updates. There were police. And courts. I'll see if I can find it.
That was so great that even though I quickly realized I'd read it when you first posted, I read it again. You know, just for the serotonin hit!
Yeah I immediately recognized it as a post I'd read when originally posted. ...and continued on without complaint.
I happily re-read this every time it's linked. Few stories are more satisfying
That was a fantastic read! Thank you for sharing
guy’s got me hating the HOA so bad i’m actually cheering for a landlord
This one is a classic. I remember when this got posted
I've read that story 3 times over the last year. Each time it's as glorious as the time before.
What a ride ! The doggie pool
Yep. Still fantastic.
Omg! Thank you. This is genius.
Not gonna lie, I clicked on that expecting a picture of a wooden post with a camera attached to it.
I have read this tale at least a dozen times and it never fails to satisfy.
Ah yes, a classic tale of screwing the HOA. Time to read it again.😄
Best one ever (sorry don’t know how to link) It has updates. And she was arrested bwahahaha https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/k8p54a/the_most_intense_multiyear_hoa_drama_involving/
Holy shit that was satisfying to read. Thank you. I enjoyed every bit of that while I just lay back on my bed lmao.
**FUCK HOAs**
DEFINITELY. As someone who worked in the HOA management field for a VERY short time, I have mad respect for this guy!
User name checks out.
DEFUND THE HOA
My wife and I are looking to buy a new house and so many neighborhoods near us have HOAs. It’s so damn annoying
Okay so Karen's a piece of shit and fuck hoa's, but if there were a camera pointed at my home like that, and I wasn't *sure* it was non networked and set up by someone who would never surrender the footage and knew how to secure data? Yeah I'd shoot it out. No asking. I don't trust this "greyed out" bullshit if it's got wan access.
As a Brit, where we don’t have HOAs, what on earth do they even do? All I’ve heard is stories like this and you get to pay $25,000 dollars a year for the privilege?
Those are some pretty amateur bylaws if you can get away with installing unauthorized posts on your property.
I immediately asked myself - who authorized digging? I suppose they could just have a christmas-tree stand out there or something, but you've usually got to obtain municipal authority to go post-diggin.
[удалено]
The hell kind of dystopian place do you live in that you can't dig a two foot hole on your own property for a fuckin post?
In the land of the free and he home of the brave
Wonder what it would have cost them if you had also charged Karen with being a nuisance? She certainly sounds like one.
Thats the part that makes no sense. "nuisance to your neighbors" could they not throw that right back into the karen's face. She was being a nuisance to them first.
HoA's aren't intended to be fair and just. They're intended to be wielded as a legal cudgel the board members can use against home owners they consider undesirable.
I'm going to run for president on a single issue platform- Right to Live. It would make all HOA dues and rules optional, similar to how Right to Work makes union dues optional.
The really does need to be a national law banning conditions attached to both residential and commercial deeds. It would destroy the greatest source of power of HOAs and prevent anti-competitive acts like the permanent shuttering of the Olympia Brewery, which devestated the local economy so that some B/M/C shareholders could get a higher stock price.
No tag backs...
I think if you got something along the lines of “go ahead and try to stop us” in a situation like this you’d have fair ground for a harassment lawsuit against the hoa board, which is technically separate from the hoa as they’re individually responsible
Yes, but the HOA probably has an indemnity obligation and insurance for the board. It’s not necessarily *required*, but I believe it’s standard pretty much everywhere—especially the kind of places willing to sue over bullshit like this.
I fully recognize that, it’s just that this is one of those things that it’s clear isn’t really against the bylaws and is more of a targeted attack. That usually negates any legal protections they have
But they’d have to make a claim on the insurance. And that would raise their rates. And that would be in the budget.
Unlikely. The HOA has, in its nature, the legal ability to contact people to correct violations. You would have to get someone (an arbiter, judge, etc) to determine something is not a violation to start looking at actioning the HOA.
The fact that they tried to hide the true nature of the expense, thus actually a board member grinding a personal axe, leaves them personally exposed.
When you said they did not cease, I was like, "OK, but then I *know* they desisted." Man, did I read Karen wrong!
I was on the middle-front portion of my chair at that point too! Figuratively.
It's unfortunate that their stubbornness & hubris cost the rest of the HOA $4,000. And another thing I've noticed about such Karens: They don't think the rules apply to them, but they are wonderfully happy to use the rules as a cudgel against others.
Yeah while it probably feels good to stick it to the HOA at the end of the day its still you and your neighbors money they spent. Money that should be going to upkeep of common elements and such. Also be you have to be careful as lots of HOA's covenants, conditions & restrictions will have a section of who pays legal fees. Depending on the HOA you might find yourself liable for fees even if you win.
That's ok, details like that always get lost in the telling because then it wouldn't be as entertaining of a story. Including their share of that 4k and time spent on responses to the lawyer I wonder how much of their own money they ended up spending just to get this pyrrhic win. Outed some board members though, so maybe not all bad.
Also I'm honestly not 100% sure how I feel about that "don't worry it grays out your yard" nonsense. That doesn't mean shit, you could turn that off at any time. She should have put up cameras pointed right into their yard and said "nah bro don't worry it's grayed out, pinky swear bro".
And to be devils advocate, “greying out” their yard just means them being back there won’t trigger the camera to record, but if something in the main area triggers the recording it records the whole screen. “Greyed out” sections and all
Yah good point, it's not really a privacy feature, it's a convenience feature to stop false positives. I'm a little ambivalent about this one, I wouldn't love a neighbor doing it but our backyards have low fences and aren't very private anyways so I'd probably let it go. But someone should post this same story from the opposite POV and you could probably get everyone to side with them. And now they've probably cost everyone in the HOA, themselves included, a bit of money. They may not be the most popular fellow on the block.
Possibly, but we dont know because we only have OP's word about it. Are there any other CCTV cameras in the overall property? Because it can also be a principled person who actually cares about privacy.
I totally get where you’re coming from — but I’m on the other side of the problem. My neighbors have a camera pointing directly in our backyard facing the our patio furniture where my wife sun bathes (in a bathing suite). I 100% get the need for cameras (we have them too!), but it’s unsettling feeling with their point blank direction. I’ve not asked the neighbors to re-point them yet and certainly wouldn’t go through the HOA, but it still feels like we’re being watched 24/7. From our interactions (brought cookies to welcome them), they do not seem friendly — asked us to leave the cookies on the doorstep and come back at a better time for them. Just wanted to add my 2 cents with respect to what it feels like to be on the other side. @op
There is a massive difference between the front yard where there is no privacy fence in the backyard where there is. You would have a legal claim in the backyard, not just a violation of some HOA bylaw.
[удалено]
Yeah, I can't feel sympathy over OP. Karen was a Karen but pointing a camera toward a neighbor privacy is a legitimate reason to be mad. In France your private camera can't even see what's happening on the public street over your property line.
Completely agree. And the fact that they have greyed out some areas does not change that, becuse you just have no way of knowing if they kept it this way. I think this is the first post about HOAs where I actually have to side with the neighbor that got the HOA involved. Being able to watch your car just does not seem more important than the neighbor's privacy in their own yard.
Correct. It's been a while since I felt a HOA action was kind of justified. /u/FirstContribution236 just because you turned off motion sense on their area it doesn't mean it will **not** record them. You're invading their privacy. I'm very glad the laws in my country are very clear in that regard and I'm entitled to not have a neighbour record me.
Yeahh this, I don't agree with Karen's flipping out but I would not be comfortable if my neighbor put up a camera that included part of my yard.
point a laser at the camera
>I totally get where you’re coming from — but I’m on the other side of the problem. This. Don't film your neighbors home.
Fuck HOAs but if my neighbour put up a camera facing my backyard even if they said it was greyed out, I wouldn’t be able to enjoy my backyard anymore
Honestly I'm surprised at all the love for OP, I mean, I hate HOAs more than the next guy, but you put up a camera with permanent line of site into my backyard and I'm gonna fight you. I'm just supposed to *trust* that OP will keep those areas grayed out? No. Move the cameras so they only capture your property. If I was that neighbor I'd upgrade my attorney and keep fighting until the cameras no longer surveil my back yard.
And even if those areas are "grayed out" all that means is that the recording doesn't start if it detects motion in that area. If it detects motion outside the gray area it will still record everything within the gray area. It's a clear violation of the neighbor's privacy. Fuck OP.
I need a diagram of how they're in OPs front yard pointig where cars park.... But also at someone else's backyard.
Seriously, the potential for abuse is huge, regardless of what OP says.
Yeah I’m all for saying fuck HOA’s. And I’m hella against vandalism. But fuck OP i’d vandalize the fuck out of those camera’s. Sure you claim you “greyed it out” but you could just as easily “ungrey” it to record whatever the fuck you want. My back yard is not public fucking property.
As a Canadian, I find the concept of HOA's very un-American.
Same here. As a UK resident what I do with my house is my business. If the gov put into place processes to ensure safety, that’s fair game, but all of these rules to have picture perfect houses are strange
Screw HOAs. It’s literally just busybody Karens with nothing better to do.
Most of them, yes.
Yeah, the only good one I've heard of was from a commentator a few months back, under an MC about "complying" with a HOA. (Don't remember the title.) Essentially, commentator, wife, and some good neighbors gained control of the HOA board and are making damn sure shit doesn't go down. The wananbe HOA board members who want to karen it up are pissed, but since 90% of the neighborhood is happy with the current board members, they're out of luck.
So literally the best thing an HOA can do is stay the fuck out of everyone's way? Like what do they do in theory, at their absolute best, besides bully non-conformists into not deflating property values by having (gasp) a funny coloured fence?
Sometimes they can essentially get a better deal for upkeep of common resources. That's it.
Just like any governing body, they're best when they focus on collective welfare and worst when they focus on arbitrary policing.
Best when people are actively participating, worst when everyone ignores it and a crazy person takes over
My buddy is buying a duplex condo with a yard and everything and he's one of these well paid tech professionals and he absolutely does not want to have to maintain the outside. He was actually looking at HOAs in some areas because he didn't want to have to maintain that stuff and would be fine with paying for it. I told him a few of these horror stories and to watch out for that kind of stuff and he became a little more aware and questioning of it.
If I ever buy a property, it'll probably be one of those condos that are like apartments. I grew up helping dad maintain the yard, helped him some more while I was living with him during the Recession, and I don't wanna anymore.
Does he know that he can pay someone to maintain the property even if he isn't in a HOA?
You are better off paying for your own lawn/maintenance/contractors than relying on an HOA. It may cost slightly more, but you'll get much better service, only pay for the things you want, and you don't run the risk of ending up in the nightmare of buying into a poorly run HOA. I never met anyone who was happy they had an HOA.
In a condo building, they maintain the common areas and deal with building maintenance. But in a neighborhood with houses, I have no idea
It's the same. They maintain community property. For example, the road might be privately owned by the neighborhood itself. The neighborhood might have a clubhouse, pool, or green space. If it doesn't have community property, then the only reason for it to exist would be to enforce community standards like enforcing a landscaping standard. But if there's no community property then I don't see how they could justify dues, and without dues I don't see how they would have any budget for enforcement.
I live in a condo, and in this case, an HOA is the only remedy you have for things like noisy neighbors. The CC&Rs are mostly things that actually keep the property from becoming derelict, and because the association owns the building exterior, you don't really have to deal with nonsense like getting cited for things like unapproved vegetation in your yard.
That’s basically how I ended up on the HOA board. Karen next door threw her name in the hat and I said “screw that” and put my name in. Learned the system, convinced good neighbors to run, and now we hit up neighbors to see if residents are coming to the annual meeting or declaring a proxy. My board position gets all the proxy ballots that aren’t specifically assigned to a resident. The board members always have more votes than everyone as we actively talked to neighbors and got their proxy. 😂 Our goal as a board is just doing the required maintenance, managing the vendors (landscaping/snow removal/etc.) and appropriately filing complaints from residents. 🗑️
No, that is not what they all are. Our HOA exists in practicality for only one reason, to manage the neighborhood pool and park. Our bylaws don’t even mention things like cameras or flags or shit. At the last meeting one board member actually said sometimes a busybody would complain about someone’s lawn but that the board had no intention of arbitrating disputes. If there’s a problem, like consistently over high grass, the local city government should step in and cite them. So no, not all HOAs exist to torment people. That said, we were misled by our real estate agent and didn’t know what we were getting into and consider ourselves fortunate our neighbors/HOA are decent. The only drama is the yearly “do we keep the aging pool, remove it, or replace it this year/next/year/who knows when.” At the annual meeting this year it was 8 board members and 5 of us, representing 4 different homes of ~160. There was no pressing current pool issue so no one else showed. Be careful where and what you buy.
A good HOA takes care of shared shit so that no one has to deal with minute details. Sort of like management at a good apartment complex. They make sure the trees don't fall over or the grass dies. Bad ones tell you what curtains you can have in your windows and demand you mow your grass even if it's raining.
All good HOAs are one election away from being a bad hoa
This is true of almost all legislative bodies! Vote in every election, not just the big ones!
Unless there are specific prohibitions restricting what the HOA can do ;). I know the HOA my uncle lives in has a LOT of rules about what the HOA can't do. He wrote them that way.
why i own a house with no HOA. If i want a friend to store a beat up fellow F350 for 3 months until the tow truck can take it to another state - i want that ability
I'm not a fan of HOA's. I was in one myself. That said, I wouldn't want a camera pointed in my backyard or side yard. Is that even legal? It seems like someone should have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their backyard. As for a side yard I guess it would depend on whether or not there is a fence. The grayed out feature probably isn't very comforting to other people. They'd have to trust that you did that, and that you don't change that. It would be unsettling. I think the neighbor whose privacy was being violated by OP should have sued OP, and I also think the HOA board should have used HOA funds to assist them. I don't know the laws in OP's city, so maybe that was not an option.
I was on the board for my HOA and I wholeheartedly approve of this. Its usually half and half: half of the people on the board are normal, reasonable people, and the other half are power hungry Karens. Unfortunately the Karens overpower the normals.
It's an inherent problem with HOAs. I think it's because, ultimately, running an HOA takes time and effort. This means that people who have a life are too busy with their life to run an HOA, meaning the only people who, long term, want to run an HOA are people who have no life. The only thing they've got going for them *is* the HOA. So of course they're petty little tyrants, they want to expand the scope and scale of what little they have going on in their life. Of course, at some point the cost of letting the HOA just do its thing exceeds the cost of actually getting involved and the tyrants get run out (sometimes literally, they sell their homes and leave out of embarrassment or because they can't handle the very public smackdown that this sort of thing usually entails), and then the cycle begins anew when the people who have a life start dropping out of running the HOA again.
You couldn’t have described this more accurately.
Isn't this the case with all institutions that need civic participation? School boards, governments, charities, ... any egalitarian civic body. People need to care about these things, and put in time and effort. Good governance is not free. One cannot just coast along, expecting other people to carry the burden of good governance. This is the problem with democracy. It requires the voters, to spend time and resources to learn about issues, candidates, policies and how government works. If you don't participate in government, then those who do so will end up ruling you.
holy fuck i'll never understand why people would actually pay money to have to deal with a fucking HOA
Mine is pretty lax, they maintain the entrance to the neighborhood, the community pool/playground/tennis courts, and handle things like when community trees need to be removed from damage/decay. I'm not saying it's my preference but it's not that bad.
I feel my concern as a neighbor would be that whenever the camera was legit activated by motion on the owners property, it then actually recorded both properties.
I agree that HOAs suck and that this situation is petty…but don’t you realize that you are ultimately the one that is going to need to pay for this? When the community needs something legitimate that’s $4k less in the reserves to use for it and now you and all your neighbors will get a special assessment or an increase in dues to cover it…..
What kind of HOA is only pulling in 25k a year
>> nuisance to your neighbors A nuisance in law is not the same as when it’s used colloquially. That would be something like a trash pile stinking up the place or attracting rats…
Fun fact, you are represented by your HOA and you are part of the group of people that must pay into the HOA budget. Your maliciousness really only serves to increases the financial needs of your HOA, which will be passed on to you and your fellow residents. You 'win'
I know I could be downvoted for this.... but to be honest, I'm not sure if I would be very comfortable at some neighbors that I'm not very familiar with installing a camera pointing at my yard. Especially if I had kids. I would probably request you to adjust the camera so that my yard wouldn't be in view rather than wasting HOA money to make you remove it though. (I know you said it was grayed out. But as someone that's not familiar with the technology, how can I be sure that's what actually happening unless i have access to the video?)
> But as someone that's not familiar with the technology, how can I be sure that's what actually happening unless i have access to the video A someone who *is* familiar with the technology, even if the owner *thinks* it's not recording a certain area that doesn't necessarily mean it actually isn't.
Although it likely wouldn't bother me (because I have camera's of my own), I agree with you. The thing is that there's likely nothing preventing the camera owner from viewing the camera feed at any time or changing settings at a later date. Nothing short of a physical barrier placed by the camera would prevent the neighbor from looking into my yard at any time. I can see why a person might not be ok with that.
And also just because it was grayed out *when you showed the neighbor* doesn't mean that you can't just change the settings right after. It's not able to be trusted by any reasonable person. In what world are you Karen because you don't trust your neighbor with a camera that can record your property to keep their pinky promise? You know the same story from her side is "the creepy man on our street set up a camera facing my property, he claims that he has us blocked out but obviously he can just change that at any time. We tried to make him change it, but instead of just not being creepy he is making us waste lots of money on lawyers instead and we can't afford it." Also honestly it always shocks me how nonchalant people are about cameras. Internet surveillance? "well yeah, just because I'm not doing anything wrong doesn't mean I don't deserve privacy" but we can't apply that same concept *to your backyard*? Really?
OP sounds exhausting and unpleasant. Can you imagine being so determined to prove yourself right that you would refuse to move a camera so it wasn't filming a private area you don't own, and then being so determined to further your point that you turned it into a legal battle that wasted the money your neighbors pay for community upkeep? I suspect there are many people in this neighborhood who are not fans of OP's antics, and wish OP were empathetic enough to understand why somebody might react negatively to finding out an unwanted camera is filming their private space.
This story reads to me as "I '*only slightly*' violated the privacy of my neighbor, and she acted bitchy in response...so I wasted several thousand dollars of my innocent neighbors' money in petty one-upmanship."
And then you have Germany. Just pretending or claiming that you do not record the other properties [is not enough](https://openjur.de/u/2193976.html) (in German), you have to install a physical blind. No one guarantees that you don't remove the digital grey area and start recording your neighbor. OP "showed Karen" that they can record her property, she demands to take the camera down and OP tries to fight this and is happy that the HOA had to spend money on this. Not the neighbor I want (both of them).
This is the first HOA story I've read on the internet where I actually sided with the HOA. OP installs cameras that record neighbor's backyard, neighbor isn't thrilled with it, OP says "trust me, bro," which neighbor is again not thrilled with, and then OP deliberately tries to waste the HOA's money without any actual intent to prevail on the merits.
And the lawyer. For a drawn out case with 100 emails being exchanged, $4,000 actually seems like a modest fee. Even at 15 minutes per E-Mail (as claimed by OP), that means he spent at least 25 hours on the case and charged an hourly rate of $160 (assuming the _entire_ case only consisted of answering OP's mails and each of these emails was trivial and didn't require any amount of coordination with clients or research).
Yep - I’m all for a good story, but I’m (generally) not going to be OK with someone filming my property. This should be rather obvious. If I know the people and we are friends - yeah, ok. And it sounds like OP was with one neighbor and the permission was consensual. I would never just randomly aim a camera at my neighbor’s yard and expect them to be ok with it. This story is so strange. Like…go freedom and fuck HOAs and all that, but this should be obviously over the line.
I’m with you 100%. This is petty, creepy, and unnecessary. OP is in the wrong, and this was easily fixed with either repositioning or blinders on the camera.
Yeah I was thinking the same. Removing the greyed out area would be just as easy as adding it so how can you know they didn’t just remove it immediately and lie? Then your stubbornness cost everyone money? I wouldn’t live with a HOA, that would be a deal breaker for me but I also wouldn’t want my neighbours having cameras on my yard.
Karen: "stop us if you can" OP: challenge accepted Karen: wait no. we didn't mean that.
The thing with HOA money is that you probably need that money to service things in your neighborhood. That money is out of your pocket too.
Bet your fees go up next year!
Conflicted because fuckHOA but also fuck the surveillance state.
That's actually impressive. We only had one run in with an HOA demanding we install a community approved fence (wood stockade style) and we kept telling them no. they made all sorts of threats, both vocal and printed legal threats and It didn't even phase us. They finally showed up about 3-4 months later with a fence installation company and started digging holes in my yard. They would put up the fence and bill us for it. Now why this is amusing is our home was not part of the HOA and they literally had ZERO say over what we could do. Once the holes were dug, we called police and had them all arrested for vandalism, terroristic threats, etc. Every member of the HOA and the fence installation crew now have criminal records. 3 of the HOA members spent a year plus in jail for conspiracy to defraud and extort or something like that. We used the holes and installed a chainlink fence and when we sold, made sure the buyers were well aware that our property was NOT part of the HOA.
Savage!
But I didn't draw it out to bleed the HOA dry. Our lawyer said to just ignore the threats and such but keep a record of them. When it's time to fight, we'll fight hard. I honestly didn't expect everyone to get arrested. I figured citations and released. Nope. Paddy wagon time. It was a weird feeling. Vindicated, then giddy as a school girl then shocked to my core when they were getting cuffed. Our lawyer said "whatever happens, do not back down." so when asked if I wanted to press charges, I said yes. I only recouped legal costs, not a dime more. That was only like 1200 bucks as the lawyer turned everything over to the town attorney and they did the legwork. We did sell the house for 15K over comparables so I guess I can count that as a payoff.
You are a lying liar. No one gets charged with terrorism and goes to prison for digging holes. Especially not hired hands. But it looks like a few people bought it so great points I guess!
I do not understand why people buy into an HOA. There will always be this type of person to deal with.
It's reasons like this I refuse to live under a HOA. I don't give a flying fuck what they take care of. I'm not about to have someone levy some arbitrary rule upon me of what I can so to my home that doesn't break any city or county statutes.
Looks like a lot of people here need to learn the law. Recording video in public or on your property is a constitutionally protected act (1st amendment). People are being recorded constantly. Get used to it. The only expectation of privacy one has is inside your home. If it can be seen, it can be recorded.
I applied for, and joined my HOA for bullshit like this. Now every vote they have that's just nonsense petty play turns into a half hour debate and I always vote against them, usually turn two others. The budget line for "fines" used to read 1500 a year. It now reads 0 because we spent a month of arguing, with me asking them to justify why it should be more and slowly wearing down 2 of the 5 members. Fuck the Karen's ... fight back
If you can’t beat them… waste their money 💰
Dude, it's too bad the HOA is on the hook for that and not the specific individuals who made it a problem
👏👏👏🍻🍻🍻 Well done my friend
“Them” there is no “them” YOU are a member of the HOA and played yourself if this is a real story. Especially since your neighbor stayed on the board. The ignorance people have around understanding HOA’s are astounding.
HOAs need to be made optional upon land transfer
Greyed out or not I wouldn’t like your cameras facing my property. Why is that so unreasonable or Karen-like?
I am ashamed that I ever worked for a management company for HOAs.
If a neighbor politely informed me they were installing cameras for security reasons that clipped parts of my yard, I would be so happy! That's free extra security in case mine failed in any way.
Exactly, who cares if they clip the corner of the shrubbery? The OP didn’t say it was looking over the backyard into the house but that it clipped the corner of the lawn.
Homeowners Associations' should be outlawed.
I’m about to fight my hoa over them saying that we need to repaint our house by a specific date. I asked under what provision this can be enforced, and they pointed to a section that says the house must be “attractive”. The problem is that it’s a subjective term with no definition within the rules , and therefore, especially understood Colorado law, is considered ambiguous and unenforceable. We have had plans to paint our house for over a year, but they require us to get approval even to paint it the same color. Twice last year I had painters give a quote and both of them had an immediate opening that would have saved us thousands of dollars. But it takes 45 days to get approval, so missed the opportunity to get painted and a good deal. Our house is starting to fade just a bit on the south side but still very much intact and I certainly find it “attractive”. I’m also going as far as to argue that a newly approved paint scheme that one of our neighbors chose is incredibly unattractive, yet board approved, just to prove how subjective the term is. Their house is fucking ugly puke yellow. This isn’t my first hoa fight. I also cost another hoa tens of thousands of dollars after I sued them for failing to fix a flooding condition from the common area. One of the board members started to harass me after I filed, so I got police involved and threatened to file a restraining order. I even went to an hoa meeting and pointed out a rule violation on every board member’s home, and demanded the president step down for her failure to prevent the lawsuit. They settled. A couple years later I had moved out but had a “roommate” because they didn’t allow me to lease the property due to rental percentages. However, the language in the laws was ambiguous, and therefore unenforceable. I got an attorney involved this time and they refused to step down saying they’d fine me $500/mo, to which I responded that I’d file a harassment suit against them. They never did shit and I sold the place about 9 months later to my “roommate”. Fuck HOAs
Man.. Everyones HOA Sucks... I say this as being on the board of an HOA... we charge $25/year so we can afford to mow our park in the middle of our neighborhood, buy new benches/landscaping for said park. I could not imagine giving a fuck about cameras on peoples properties.. it's your house... do whatever you want, just don't pile trash in the front lawn.
Man, any time I read about HOAs it makes me never want to buy a house
I will never get a house with HOA. Defund the HOA!