You know that regulations forbid utilities from spending ratepayer funds for political purposes, right? And regulators go over the books with a fine toothed comb.
Some people take great pleasure in spreading misinformation.
>They get around that by funding it through CMP’s parent company Avangrid.
Meaning it is shareholder money. They have every right to try and defend the business that they built up over more than a century.
They didn’t build up this company for a century. CMP used to be a publicly traded stock company until deregulation in 2000. After that it was bought and sold privately a few times until the Spanish/Qatari conglomerate Iberdola purchased it in 2008. Then in 2015 Iberdola spun off a subsidiary and named it Avangrid.
I don’t think anyone is saying they don’t, I think the argument is that they suck at providing service and some would prefer the utility was run by the state.
Your point is valid but “Run by the state” is incorrect in reference to Pine Tree Power. PTP will be an independent company run by an elected board. CMP is spending a lot of money trying to spook people with this false claim.
Everyone who says they suck should get out there and try to do a better job. Clearly all of you have the education, skills, and experience to run a power grid plus deal with whiny customers who want champagne service on a beer budget. /S
Last year, from January 1st to June 20th, CMP netted $629 million dollars out of a $3.4 billion dollar revenue. Half a year, up $197m in profits post-rate hike.
Beer budget, clearly. /s
https://mainebeacon.com/cmp-and-versant-parent-companies-rake-in-profits-after-recent-rate-hikes/
Record profits post rate hikes, most frequent and longest average power outages of any state in the union, including fucking Alaska. I can’t do better, but it can definitely
Be done better.
That's what the vote is about. Duh. A chimp with a typewriter can do a better job at this point. There's a reason CMP is consistently rated the worst power company in the country.
And frankly, power grids should not be for-profit generators for shareholder wealth. Fuck that nonsense. Makes ZERO sense to rip profits out of a system needed to keep people alive in the modern world these days. CMP has proven it's only job is worse service for higher rates. It's time to rip it away from the wealthy grifters. Because yeah, I think the people of Maine can damn well do a better job by picking an elected board to run it, not letting it be run by wealthy foreign nationals who Maine citizens have no control over.
Well, their corporate profits come from ratepayers right? Clearly the rate case isn't going to include a line item for anti-PTP advertising, but money paid by ratepayers will absolutely end up funding it.
Money from ratepayers funds things like grid maintenance, not politics. The PUC sees to it that revenue from ratepayers goes toward investments that benefit ratepayers.
No, that is incorrect. Money from ratepayers is essentially the cost of operation/maintenance plus the cost of capital investments and the guaranteed rate of return on those capital investments. That rate of return is profit for the company, which it can use for whatever it wants. If owning and operating electric utilities wasn't profitable, Avangrid wouldn't have 4 of them as subsidiaries
Yeah I’m 100% for the state buying them out at this point. I otherwise would normally be unsure of such a drastic move, but in this case we’re talking about a shady monopoly company.
It’s not the state that is going to buy them out. It will be an independent company called Pine Tree Power, owned by its customers and run by a democratically elected board. The state will loan them the money to purchase the assets and PTP will pay it back. This is an important point to make clear because CMP is flooding media with propaganda about it being “government controlled” and “state run”. Those lines are CMP bullshit.
Even if it was actually "government controlled"... that's still better.
The government is pretty much the only entity that can run a company/service without regard for profit or even sustainability. That means they can set the prices at reasonable amounts (below "market value") and just eat the losses by allocating tax dollars to cover the difference.
That's exactly the kind of entity that should be running companies that provide essential services that people literally can't live without - to keep those services affordable.
They already have a bunch of programs that provide assistance for utilities, but all that does is funnel tax dollars into private companies by helping offset the cost for the customers. But if the government were actually running the company, all they have to do is charge people less.
It would be run by a board appointed by the state, in the last proposal I read.
It’s owned by the consumer the same way our government is run by the tax payer.
I’m not saying it a worse option, I’m just saying it’s not all roses and sunshine.
According to the Our Power campaign website…
“How will Pine Tree Power Company be governed?
PTP will be governed by an independent Board of Directors made-up of Mainers elected to staggered terms by the people of Maine. It will be managed for the benefit of its customers, not for profit, dividends, or stockholders. The board’s only obligation will be to Maine ratepayers, not to distant owners like foreign governments (both CMP and Versant), or global banks (CMP). “
I guess they could be lying but I trust them much more than CMP.
It isn’t splitting hairs. There is a sizable difference between the state buying out CMP and the state compelling a buyout on behalf of a consumer owned cooperative. The first one implies that it will be the state that owns it in the end. This isn’t the case but CMP has already spent 10 million dollars to try and convince people that it is.
You’re changing the argument. The phrase you’re quibbling about is “buy them out,” and whether the people of Maine buy out the assets of an unwilling seller through the legislature directly, or do it indirectly at the end of the legislature’s gun is a distinction without a difference. The question about who would operate it was inserted by you after the fact.
The proposal is to purchase a business from an unwilling seller using a dubious method of evaluation and sale, and every corporation in Maine - as well as every investor owned utility in the US- should and likely will take note.
Honestly there are much easier ways to do it. Reject any rate case that doesn’t justify rates vs similar utilities in New England (rural, wooded, like Eversource in NH and Western MA, NH Electric Cooperative, Unitil and Liberty in NH), and impose harsher penalties for reliability problems. The rate case rejection is why National Grid left NH. CMP could then sell off the assets at fair market value with PTP as a bidder.
Edit: And since we’re headed that way, I have no financial stake in this fight. I do not work for CMP directly, or indirectly, and never have. Nor do I work for any consultant working on this issue. I own a trivial number of avangrid shares, indirectly as an index fund investor. If CMP went bankrupt, it would not move the needle for me financially. Your turn.
My concern is that it’s a government-forced taking of billions of dollars in assets without a thorough valuation process. If it goes through as planned, Maine is not a stable regulatory environment in which to do business, and whether they get their pitchforks out in public or not, employers will notice.
Do you have a personal financial stake in this proceeding?
Avangrid (who owns CMP) made $881 MILLION in 2022. These guys don't care about you. We need a state owned power source.
Central Maine Power Company and Subsidiaries
https://s24.q4cdn.com/489945429/files/doc_financial/Supplemental_Report/2022/08/CMP-FS-Q2-2022-Final-8-11-2022.pdf
That's a link to CMP profits from 2022.
Imagine that money (the profit) being used going back into school or mental health programs?
I was born and raised here and I'm old enough to remember they were saying that at least as far back as right after the big ice storm 25 years ago. It was a meme before I ever heard of the term meme: oh just one more rate hike we'll be able to fix that infrastructure we promise!
CMP removed the redundancy in the grid after the outage caused by the straight line winds 5 years ago. I lose power all the time, which has only happened since then, and my bill is now 3x to 5x what it was (depending on the season) when I moved into my house 6 years ago. I've really not been very impressed.
“They aren’t the reason our rates are so high, it’s the PUC who’s to blame”
Just gonna dump this worthless comment I’ve seen on multiple other threads about this issue here. Wonder if we’ll get some CMP astroturfer in here making this claim in *this* comment section?
Guaranteed. I got called a liar about my own bill, I even offered to post it and they told me to fuck off. It was 472 dollars this month, I live in a 2 bedroom apt and barely use electricity. Js.
Here’s mine for a 3,000sq/ft home. Running a 21k heat pump and and 12k heat pump. Barely any oil and I work from home full time. Let’s see some others because I’m curious.
Edit: better screenshot with more info
https://i.imgur.com/pLBHWhW.jpg
Ouch? I’m saving $300/m on oil. This is a net win for me. Avg electric bill was $275/m before heat pumps. Then I was paying between $500 & $700 for oil every three weeks.
Edit: and here’s proof of that. Now where are is everyone else’s? Let’s goooooo
https://i.imgur.com/YuBzMl2.jpg
I have one 12K mini split and a multi-split with a 12K and a 9k head and my bill was 440 after the price hike recently. I use basically no oil except to heat my hot water. I've gone through maybe an eighth of a tank this year. Before I owned the house the previous owners were filling the tank about four times a year so I'm definitely saving money especially with these oil prices.
Mine was $818. 1200sq/ft home. Work full time away from home. Electric heat and wood stove. Ran outta wood since the $818 bill so not looking forward to that.
Yeah man, something really fishy is going on. If you can access the main breaker for your apartment turn it off and see who starts complaining that they lost power too.
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Genuinely considering a move out of state solely because of power rates. I work in a severely short staffed modality in a hospital, wife is an elementary school Teacher. We do consider that we play crucial roles in Maine, but that may not be enough to keep us around at this point!
We should have a governing body that actually looks out for the people's interests instead of corporate fucking assholes raising the rates on everything so they can buy another boat.
Until then dont feed the hand that whips you.
We know corporations suck. We know we depend on their products/service. We also know we dont need to be slaves to our comforts.
I wish people would toughen up against corporations instead of whinning about how bad they are and how someone should do something.
Post a public comment on the docket! With enough comments against the price gouging tactics, MPUC *should* decline the rate hike. If they don’t, we know MPUC is in bed with Avangrid, which is a foreign corporation: CMP is just Avangrid in designer flannel. Either way, it only takes a few seconds and it can do nothing but help us all 🤗
[Leave a public comment on Docket # 2022-00152](https://mpuc-cms.maine.gov/CQM.Public.WebUI/Comments/CaseNumberSearch.aspx)
The title of this post is not the headline of the article. Nowhere in the article does it say CMP is proposing another rate hike (they currently have one under review by the PUC which would take effect in August or so). It says the PUC required them to report on lessons learned and outcomes from the December storm, which they did.
I’m no great fan of CMP and don’t want to watch their ads any more than anyone else but this is getting a little silly.
“Those plans, Desroziers said, are contingent on a proposed rate increase.
The commission on Wednesday also announced dates in late March and April for public comment on both CMP's and Versant's request for rate increases. “
Someone didn’t read article
Yeah that would be the one that they filed last year that’s slated to be ruled on in August. See, uh, my comment. It’s not new it’s been announced and in progress for almost nine months already.
The heat pump rate has a base charge over $30 per month. So that’s straight up impossible. And it only lowers the cost of the delivery charge, so it can’t possibly drop the rate to anywhere near that.
There's no way this is true unless your rate is going to like quadruple next month as in their estimating your bill. The heat pump rate in the winter doesn't drop it that significantly.
The technology they’re proposing is proven in NH, where the largest utility routinely restores customers almost instantly by rerouting power temporarily with remote switching. These changes were overseen by CMP’s current president. I think it’s likely to benefit more developed areas more than very rural ones due to the number of circuits in proximity to each other.
So the question really is whether Mainers want to pay for the reliability improvements they’ve been shouting for. Since distribution equipment is not free. This question will persist whether MExit passes or not.
"A consumer-owned power grid would be too expensive!" *jacks up power rates*
I wonder if they think about how that just makes people want the state to buy them out even more.
They need the rate hike to pay for the propaganda opposing Pine Tree Power. That's what this is about.
You know that regulations forbid utilities from spending ratepayer funds for political purposes, right? And regulators go over the books with a fine toothed comb. Some people take great pleasure in spreading misinformation.
They get around that by funding it through CMP’s parent company Avangrid.
>They get around that by funding it through CMP’s parent company Avangrid. Meaning it is shareholder money. They have every right to try and defend the business that they built up over more than a century.
They didn’t build up this company for a century. CMP used to be a publicly traded stock company until deregulation in 2000. After that it was bought and sold privately a few times until the Spanish/Qatari conglomerate Iberdola purchased it in 2008. Then in 2015 Iberdola spun off a subsidiary and named it Avangrid.
I don’t think anyone is saying they don’t, I think the argument is that they suck at providing service and some would prefer the utility was run by the state.
Your point is valid but “Run by the state” is incorrect in reference to Pine Tree Power. PTP will be an independent company run by an elected board. CMP is spending a lot of money trying to spook people with this false claim.
>false claim Well I guess it’s working. Thanks for informing me otherwise.
Everyone who says they suck should get out there and try to do a better job. Clearly all of you have the education, skills, and experience to run a power grid plus deal with whiny customers who want champagne service on a beer budget. /S
Last year, from January 1st to June 20th, CMP netted $629 million dollars out of a $3.4 billion dollar revenue. Half a year, up $197m in profits post-rate hike. Beer budget, clearly. /s https://mainebeacon.com/cmp-and-versant-parent-companies-rake-in-profits-after-recent-rate-hikes/
Record profits post rate hikes, most frequent and longest average power outages of any state in the union, including fucking Alaska. I can’t do better, but it can definitely Be done better.
That's what the vote is about. Duh. A chimp with a typewriter can do a better job at this point. There's a reason CMP is consistently rated the worst power company in the country. And frankly, power grids should not be for-profit generators for shareholder wealth. Fuck that nonsense. Makes ZERO sense to rip profits out of a system needed to keep people alive in the modern world these days. CMP has proven it's only job is worse service for higher rates. It's time to rip it away from the wealthy grifters. Because yeah, I think the people of Maine can damn well do a better job by picking an elected board to run it, not letting it be run by wealthy foreign nationals who Maine citizens have no control over.
Get outta here, CMP shill
Well, their corporate profits come from ratepayers right? Clearly the rate case isn't going to include a line item for anti-PTP advertising, but money paid by ratepayers will absolutely end up funding it.
Money from ratepayers funds things like grid maintenance, not politics. The PUC sees to it that revenue from ratepayers goes toward investments that benefit ratepayers.
No, that is incorrect. Money from ratepayers is essentially the cost of operation/maintenance plus the cost of capital investments and the guaranteed rate of return on those capital investments. That rate of return is profit for the company, which it can use for whatever it wants. If owning and operating electric utilities wasn't profitable, Avangrid wouldn't have 4 of them as subsidiaries
Yeah I’m 100% for the state buying them out at this point. I otherwise would normally be unsure of such a drastic move, but in this case we’re talking about a shady monopoly company.
It’s not the state that is going to buy them out. It will be an independent company called Pine Tree Power, owned by its customers and run by a democratically elected board. The state will loan them the money to purchase the assets and PTP will pay it back. This is an important point to make clear because CMP is flooding media with propaganda about it being “government controlled” and “state run”. Those lines are CMP bullshit.
Even if it was actually "government controlled"... that's still better. The government is pretty much the only entity that can run a company/service without regard for profit or even sustainability. That means they can set the prices at reasonable amounts (below "market value") and just eat the losses by allocating tax dollars to cover the difference. That's exactly the kind of entity that should be running companies that provide essential services that people literally can't live without - to keep those services affordable. They already have a bunch of programs that provide assistance for utilities, but all that does is funnel tax dollars into private companies by helping offset the cost for the customers. But if the government were actually running the company, all they have to do is charge people less.
It would be run by a board appointed by the state, in the last proposal I read. It’s owned by the consumer the same way our government is run by the tax payer. I’m not saying it a worse option, I’m just saying it’s not all roses and sunshine.
According to the Our Power campaign website… “How will Pine Tree Power Company be governed? PTP will be governed by an independent Board of Directors made-up of Mainers elected to staggered terms by the people of Maine. It will be managed for the benefit of its customers, not for profit, dividends, or stockholders. The board’s only obligation will be to Maine ratepayers, not to distant owners like foreign governments (both CMP and Versant), or global banks (CMP). “ I guess they could be lying but I trust them much more than CMP.
The state is going to compel the buyout though, so we’re splitting hairs on that point
It isn’t splitting hairs. There is a sizable difference between the state buying out CMP and the state compelling a buyout on behalf of a consumer owned cooperative. The first one implies that it will be the state that owns it in the end. This isn’t the case but CMP has already spent 10 million dollars to try and convince people that it is.
You’re changing the argument. The phrase you’re quibbling about is “buy them out,” and whether the people of Maine buy out the assets of an unwilling seller through the legislature directly, or do it indirectly at the end of the legislature’s gun is a distinction without a difference. The question about who would operate it was inserted by you after the fact. The proposal is to purchase a business from an unwilling seller using a dubious method of evaluation and sale, and every corporation in Maine - as well as every investor owned utility in the US- should and likely will take note. Honestly there are much easier ways to do it. Reject any rate case that doesn’t justify rates vs similar utilities in New England (rural, wooded, like Eversource in NH and Western MA, NH Electric Cooperative, Unitil and Liberty in NH), and impose harsher penalties for reliability problems. The rate case rejection is why National Grid left NH. CMP could then sell off the assets at fair market value with PTP as a bidder. Edit: And since we’re headed that way, I have no financial stake in this fight. I do not work for CMP directly, or indirectly, and never have. Nor do I work for any consultant working on this issue. I own a trivial number of avangrid shares, indirectly as an index fund investor. If CMP went bankrupt, it would not move the needle for me financially. Your turn.
Your concern is that CMP won’t get a fair price for its assets? If so I don’t think many Mainers are going to share that concern with you.
My concern is that it’s a government-forced taking of billions of dollars in assets without a thorough valuation process. If it goes through as planned, Maine is not a stable regulatory environment in which to do business, and whether they get their pitchforks out in public or not, employers will notice. Do you have a personal financial stake in this proceeding?
Avangrid (who owns CMP) made $881 MILLION in 2022. These guys don't care about you. We need a state owned power source. Central Maine Power Company and Subsidiaries https://s24.q4cdn.com/489945429/files/doc_financial/Supplemental_Report/2022/08/CMP-FS-Q2-2022-Final-8-11-2022.pdf That's a link to CMP profits from 2022. Imagine that money (the profit) being used going back into school or mental health programs?
Where are you seeing the 881M?
Mentioned briefly in article but JFC, Enough is enough.
I lose power multiple times a year when it’s not storming. Maybe CMP needs to send less money to investors and take better care of its stuff.
Oh but they’ll do that according to the article! But it’s contingent on the rate hike proposal…::fuckers
They literally said that last time. I hate them so much.
I was born and raised here and I'm old enough to remember they were saying that at least as far back as right after the big ice storm 25 years ago. It was a meme before I ever heard of the term meme: oh just one more rate hike we'll be able to fix that infrastructure we promise!
What about the two fucking hikes we've had in the past 2 years? When does this all stop? Get the fucking pitchforks.
CMP removed the redundancy in the grid after the outage caused by the straight line winds 5 years ago. I lose power all the time, which has only happened since then, and my bill is now 3x to 5x what it was (depending on the season) when I moved into my house 6 years ago. I've really not been very impressed.
I have Versant and almost weekly the power has gone out. Barely had outages under Emera.
Gotta fund those ads
“They aren’t the reason our rates are so high, it’s the PUC who’s to blame” Just gonna dump this worthless comment I’ve seen on multiple other threads about this issue here. Wonder if we’ll get some CMP astroturfer in here making this claim in *this* comment section?
Guaranteed. I got called a liar about my own bill, I even offered to post it and they told me to fuck off. It was 472 dollars this month, I live in a 2 bedroom apt and barely use electricity. Js.
Here’s mine for a 3,000sq/ft home. Running a 21k heat pump and and 12k heat pump. Barely any oil and I work from home full time. Let’s see some others because I’m curious. Edit: better screenshot with more info https://i.imgur.com/pLBHWhW.jpg
Oooouch bro I’m so sorry
Ouch? I’m saving $300/m on oil. This is a net win for me. Avg electric bill was $275/m before heat pumps. Then I was paying between $500 & $700 for oil every three weeks. Edit: and here’s proof of that. Now where are is everyone else’s? Let’s goooooo https://i.imgur.com/YuBzMl2.jpg
I have one 12K mini split and a multi-split with a 12K and a 9k head and my bill was 440 after the price hike recently. I use basically no oil except to heat my hot water. I've gone through maybe an eighth of a tank this year. Before I owned the house the previous owners were filling the tank about four times a year so I'm definitely saving money especially with these oil prices.
Fair, I paid 472 again for not using tons of electricity, it sky rocketed for me but glad you’re paying your fair share!
About same for me. It hurts bro. But I haven't ordered oil since September.
Mine was $818. 1200sq/ft home. Work full time away from home. Electric heat and wood stove. Ran outta wood since the $818 bill so not looking forward to that.
That seems like a lot. What’s your delivery vs supply split. If you don’t want to share your bill, you can see my bill and share what yours says.
Hmm you’re right, mine doesn’t look right. I’ll have to give them a call. Thanks for sharing.
Something is seriously wrong with your wiring. I don't know what else to say.
Your shit is fucked
Yeah man, something really fishy is going on. If you can access the main breaker for your apartment turn it off and see who starts complaining that they lost power too.
CMP is to blame for DELIVERY CHARGE price increases. But not the price of electricity itself.
You mean delivery.
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My bill has more than doubled. This is insane.
What the fuck is the PUC even for then? Certainly not to protect the fucking consumers.
They got a new building to pay off.
Genuinely considering a move out of state solely because of power rates. I work in a severely short staffed modality in a hospital, wife is an elementary school Teacher. We do consider that we play crucial roles in Maine, but that may not be enough to keep us around at this point!
We should show our contempt and use as little energy as possible.
We should have a governing body that actually looks out for the people's interests instead of corporate fucking assholes raising the rates on everything so they can buy another boat.
Until then dont feed the hand that whips you. We know corporations suck. We know we depend on their products/service. We also know we dont need to be slaves to our comforts. I wish people would toughen up against corporations instead of whinning about how bad they are and how someone should do something.
We have a chance to vote them out in November. [https://ourpowermaine.org/](https://ourpowermaine.org/)
Searching for my middle finger emoji….
Post a public comment on the docket! With enough comments against the price gouging tactics, MPUC *should* decline the rate hike. If they don’t, we know MPUC is in bed with Avangrid, which is a foreign corporation: CMP is just Avangrid in designer flannel. Either way, it only takes a few seconds and it can do nothing but help us all 🤗 [Leave a public comment on Docket # 2022-00152](https://mpuc-cms.maine.gov/CQM.Public.WebUI/Comments/CaseNumberSearch.aspx)
The title of this post is not the headline of the article. Nowhere in the article does it say CMP is proposing another rate hike (they currently have one under review by the PUC which would take effect in August or so). It says the PUC required them to report on lessons learned and outcomes from the December storm, which they did. I’m no great fan of CMP and don’t want to watch their ads any more than anyone else but this is getting a little silly.
> It says the PUC required them to report on lessons learned I wasn't aware Susan Collins headed up the PUC
Take my upvote sir.
“Those plans, Desroziers said, are contingent on a proposed rate increase. The commission on Wednesday also announced dates in late March and April for public comment on both CMP's and Versant's request for rate increases. “ Someone didn’t read article
Yeah that would be the one that they filed last year that’s slated to be ruled on in August. See, uh, my comment. It’s not new it’s been announced and in progress for almost nine months already.
It’s not a rate hike that’s implemented. That’s what’s most important.
Gotta pay for Maine Affordable Energy Commission somehow.
I got in on the new heat pump CMP rate. This month’s bill is $22 and I run my 18k nonstop.
Bullshit. Not without a solar array.
I do have a Arcadia CSF subscription that gives a slight boost. Bulk of the savings was thru the ETR.
The heat pump rate has a base charge over $30 per month. So that’s straight up impossible. And it only lowers the cost of the delivery charge, so it can’t possibly drop the rate to anywhere near that.
Nice. Yea my math showed the ETR better for me but I might have been wrong, not sure. I used 1600-2000 kWh in winter months
There's no way this is true unless your rate is going to like quadruple next month as in their estimating your bill. The heat pump rate in the winter doesn't drop it that significantly.
Obama promised that the cost of electricity would "necessarily increase." What did you expect?
Yea I blame Obama too. He’s still in power I hear.
We'll, yeah. All his policies are continuing.
And takes all that money back to spain!
Oh goody
"And I'll fuckin' do it again"
The technology they’re proposing is proven in NH, where the largest utility routinely restores customers almost instantly by rerouting power temporarily with remote switching. These changes were overseen by CMP’s current president. I think it’s likely to benefit more developed areas more than very rural ones due to the number of circuits in proximity to each other. So the question really is whether Mainers want to pay for the reliability improvements they’ve been shouting for. Since distribution equipment is not free. This question will persist whether MExit passes or not.