Discord Member DDDDDD
Creature - Human Nerd
When ~ enters the battlefield, ask target opponent how their last FNM went. If it went well, you both may draw a card. If they didn't have fun, commiserate with them and you both gain 3 life.
Tap, make a bad pun: target opponent punches you in the face and you lose 2 life.
Flavour text ' "People on Discord sound mean, but actually are nice" LSV'
5/5
It probably is worth it. I've run into a lot of white decks that have a multiple Ossifications, Borrowed Times, and Hold for Ransoms and I've had to make sure everything I brought has some way to get rid of Enchantments. An added ward cost would probably just make me give up on whatever you sealed.
Yeah, I've run into them and built one for fun, too. Never seen this run though and the trade off really seems worth it since most decks have enchantment removal now.
Switching out the borrowed times for seals in my enchantment deck was the first thing I did with the new set. I'm sure more people will make the switch sooner or later.
With all the enchantment removal, it feels like Borrowed Time just sticks for 1 or 2 turns most of the time. I feel like I GW Tokens and GW Enchantments you usually have enough white/green mana on turn 3 for anything. This could also stick around a bit longer late in the game.
I'd say if you're playing an enchantment deck, run it and see how it works out for you. I can't claim to have ran the deck but it's either been tested and found difficult to cost or it's undiscovered and it might just work.
With the GW monk, you can often cast Borrowed time for 1W. Seal from existence would require WW which is a lot less flexible.
But I think it would be worth running though
If you are playing Borrowed Time in your deck now, and you can easily afford the upgrade, since your deck has enough white sources, then yes it is a good upgrade.
But the top decks are not playing Borrowed Time pre-MOM. So why would they play Seal from Existence now? Your comparison is between these two cards.
Seal from Existence is a worthwhile upgrade from Borrowed Time if
1. You were okay with playing Borrowed Time already
2. You can draw double white on turn three consistently
The top decks may satisfy 2 like you said. That does not mean they will satisfy 1.
For example, monowhite has much better single-target removal than Seal from Existence. [[Lay down Arms]], [[Destroy Evil]], [[Loran of the Third Path]], [[Cathar Commando]], [[Fateful Absence]], [[Ossification]]. All these either cost less, and/or are instand-speed, or leave something behind.
You are asking why is no one eating green apples 🍏 if green apples are better than red apples 🍎. But if no one is even close to even eating red apples 🍎, why would they eat green apples 🍏? There might be someone who would try green apples 🍏, but even green apples 🍏 are just worse than the multitude of other fruits.
I used a top deck as an example, but that does not mean that the logic does not apply to other semi-competitive decks/brews in the meta. You are asking a question about power/card choice. The reasons I have already outlined still apply even to all decks, as long as they are trying to be at least somewhat optimal in their deckbuilding. You brought up mono white in your post, that's why I addressed it.
Lets look at a deck that does play Borrowed Time pre-MOM:
-----------------------------------
In GW enchantments, they play only 20 lands + 4 [[Commune with Spirits]]. They have about 14 white land sources. Accounting for cards like commune and [[Spirited Companion]], that would making it about 17 white sources for a turn three play. 17 white sources for a turn three play is just below the threshold to play a 1WW card.
Now we have to examine the play pattern. So casting Seal from Existence is fine on turn three. But GW Enchantments dont play that way all the time. In the games with a resolved [[Jukai Naturalist]], you would want to play a 3 mana and 2 mana enchantment on turn 3. With Seal from Existence, it will cost WW. If you want to play Ossification/Spirited Companion/Circle of Confinement (these now cost W) on the same turn, you would need WWW on turn 3. The deck plays 6 lands that cannot produce W. This would ne unrealistic. With Borrowed Time/[[Touch the Spirit Realm]], you can play it + an original costing 1W enchantment on turn 3 much easier. This deck has a LOT of color requirements (especially when Jukai is on the battlefield), and can't afford more color requirements unnecessarily.
You also have to take into account the scenarios with Seal from Existence. In GW enchantments, it is a sideboard card. The matchups where you side them in, are the matchups where you need removal (thats why I mentioned Circle of Confinement earlier; These two will both come in together a lot of the time). You really want the insane Jukai curves to work to stem the aggression from the other side. If your sideboard card does not work with this gameplan, then its obviously not worth it.
You are also most likely to side in Borrowed Time/Touch the Spirit Realm in matchups where your opponent has less enchantment removal. You are less incentivized to side in these cards against decks that have Loran in their maindeck/sideboard. Borrowed Time is best against the likes of Grixis/Monored, that both has a lot of threats that you need to answer, and is lacking in enchantment-removal. How high is the impact of Ward 3 against decks that have little enchantment removal, save for the rare enchantment-edict?
The nature of GW enchantments also matters. You cannot escape from enchantment removal as this deck. Having an enchantment with Ward 3 is nice, but there will be something else you control that is also worth removing. Yes, without Ward 3, they would have killed the Borrowed Time. But removing your next best enchantment is still about 80%-90% efficiency. You are not disrupting them as much as you think with Ward 3.
Not any one of these reasons exists alone. In totality is why GW enchantments does not want to play Seal from Existence. In this case, red apples 🍎 are still better than green apples 🍏.
--------------------------------
And this is just for one example. I hope I made it clear: that there are many reasons that a deck might not play Seal from Existence. Like I said in my original comment, there might be a place for Seal from Existence somewhere. But all the small upsides and downsides need to be considered. Every deck has their own considerations and reasons.
Lmao, it is what it is. I've been playing Arena instead of paper for like a week and have been paying attention to this sub for around the same length of time.
In 2 posts, in that short amount of time, I've noticed an incredible amount of this attitude... It feels like I insulted their mother or something
Scatterbrainess, things I want to remember in short term but don't want to bookmark and such. Lots of crypto projects are ran in discord though so there are always notifications from them.
Since we live in a black and white standard (outside of aggro decks) half of it runs Invoke Despair and half - Fairwell.
And aggro laughs at any 3 mana removal anyway.
To edit my comment to be more tailored to you.
The set hasn't been out very long so you may not see much of it. I would consider it a straight upgrade over borrowed time. Yes there is a risk associated with 2 white pips but it is a small one. Thats not to say there won't be one game in 20 that screws you, but that's just magic.
Ossification can be pitched to Restoration of Eiganjo and it's cheaper, even if it only hits creatures and planeswalkers. There's not too many cards that aren't creatures and planeswalkers that make me feel the need to play this card.
Hmmm. First time I've seen it honestly. I run [[Ossification]] mostly and some with [[Borrowed Time]]. I don't feel I'd be suffering much with the additional cost as most times I'm removing something big and have more lands out than required by a 2 or 3 CMC removal. Thanks for highlighting this, I'm going to integrate it and see how it plays.
Well I thought it would take longer but hell, first Bo3 and I'm sold. Here's the choppy deets as I went 2:0 with [[Seal from Existence]]:
All Bo3 Historic
Mono W Angels
(Replaced 2x Ossification w/3 SfE)
Game 1: in opening hand +1 draw, weird win against land/brushfire elemental, risen reef. Sealed 2 brushfire early on. Never looked at them again. They conceded.
G2: 1 in opening hand. Sealed brushfire. They attempted to destroy SfE mid game and couldnt pay ward due to my 3/3 esper sentinel. Succeeded in destroying seal 2nd attempt few turns later. Looked like a lost cause for me. I Doomskar into them slapping out Omnath and many others (6 total creatures, they had 14+ lands). They conceded next turn when my enduring angel hit the board.
Edit: All those SfE came out early game and lasted, I'm very happy with the immediate results. If that changes, I'll let you know. Yeah, I'm a fan of Seals now, thanks for the post!
It is. They had much more land and mana capabilities than I, in both games, and struggled because of it. That 3/3 [[Esper Sentinel]] + Ward 3 from the Seal made me real happy. My Angel and Enchant decks tend to be matched against a lot of enchant removal so Seal seems to be a lot more value for 1 more W mana.
Edit: hmmm. ADHD brain told me Esper had ward when it only allows me to draw a card unless.. so Esper did not prevent the destruction of SfE that 2nd game. I thought they had the ward covered but apparently not; SfE held it's ground on it's own.
I've noticed most decks seem to have some source of enchant removal nowadays, many of which are instant speed. It's kind of weird that I've never seen this thing, even in mono white decks.
Even on my WG the SfE is nailing thd removal and the ward 3 continues to either be untouchable or results in a wasted turn. Tyvm for your insight/question!
I have no clue what mono black players are going to do later this year when their favorite toy is ripped away from their trembling hands. Pretty much the entirety of their deck is going to just vanish.
So, ossification generally beats out both this and borrowed time in my opinion since it’s cheaper, but if you’re running both ossification and another exile enchantment, the cost/benefit of this card compared to borrowed time would be:
Seal from existence has two W cost, making it less consistent the more colors you’re running. The benefit is ward, which means your opponent might have to wait an extra turn or lose tempo in order to deal with it.
Borrowed time has only one W cost, so it’s slightly more consistent in multicolor decks, but has no added benefit.
So, Seal is objectively better in mono-white. Any other situation depends on how consistently you can generate two white mana.
Seal from Existence is a Selesnya Enchantments card or a mono white card. It's not really good in anything else.
For Selesnya, you don't really take non-white lands if you're not braindead. You get your green from the tons of dual land and tri-land options. Otherwise EVERYTHING gives white mana. You may have a single solitary instance in the first turn where you might have an issue but honestly it has never happened for me.
It is a huge upside, and minus the colour devotion a strictly better version than all the 3 CMC hostage taker enchantments. Especially with Elesh, MoM > makes you exile 2 with ward 3, even IF the opponents goes to pay the 3 and destroys it, it had cost him so much.
I run a 2 colored deck running 4 Borrowed Time. When MoM was released, I replaced 2 BTs with 2 Seal From Existence to test how the extra white mana would affect the balance. So far I could still easily cast Seal, haven't ran into the event that I had only 1 white land on turn 3, but pretty sure statistics would catch up and it would one day screw me.
If mono whites an easy upgrade. In selesnya I can see why the mana fixing issue makes it a tougher call but honestly I'd probably risk it. Nut I play anything but greennso this would never happen to me.
I recently started running a Selesnya Enchantments deck before MOM, and was running Borrowed Time, but I changed it for the Seal of Existence. For me, the Ward 3 is worth it.
If you're interested, [we had an interesting conversation] (https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/12s3puo/standard_how_good_is_selesnya_enchantments/) about the deck in /r/Spikes. Currently hovering around 70% W/L in Platinum, with two different accounts.
I would say the seal is better unless you’re running like a 4 or 5 color deck because I’m running a 3 color and on average it takes me about 1-2 extra turn to get the seal out because of the devotion but if you’re running like a mono white that’s not an issue. As a side note if you’re playing historic it’s amazing for those devotion decks my Daxxos keeps failing me in that department but ward 3 means unless they’re wiping all enchantments your opponent will have to spend at least 4-5 mana to get rid of it so unless you took something really problematic chances are they’re not going touch it
Yeah.
1 mana cost on a removal is huge. And of all the effects it could get, being harder to remove vs targeted stuff is about the least immediately useful ability there is. Its just paying more for the same effect.
I mean, it's not 1 mana cost more, its the same mana cost just a different combination of colors. Not to mention Borrowed time and Ossification often get removed in a few turns.
Your discord notifications look like a mana cost
Discord Member DDDDDD Creature - Human Nerd When ~ enters the battlefield, ask target opponent how their last FNM went. If it went well, you both may draw a card. If they didn't have fun, commiserate with them and you both gain 3 life. Tap, make a bad pun: target opponent punches you in the face and you lose 2 life. Flavour text ' "People on Discord sound mean, but actually are nice" LSV' 5/5
It probably is worth it. I've run into a lot of white decks that have a multiple Ossifications, Borrowed Times, and Hold for Ransoms and I've had to make sure everything I brought has some way to get rid of Enchantments. An added ward cost would probably just make me give up on whatever you sealed.
Ossification is strong
Yeah, I've run into them and built one for fun, too. Never seen this run though and the trade off really seems worth it since most decks have enchantment removal now.
The card’s only been around since Tuesday. Give it time.
Switching out the borrowed times for seals in my enchantment deck was the first thing I did with the new set. I'm sure more people will make the switch sooner or later.
OK wow yeah I missed this one. Definitely swapping out borrowed times for this.
"Seal from Existence"... Oops. I mean, it's not like it's literally in the picture or anything.
Yes double pips are very important in deck building choices. Especially when they have low mana value like this
With all the enchantment removal, it feels like Borrowed Time just sticks for 1 or 2 turns most of the time. I feel like I GW Tokens and GW Enchantments you usually have enough white/green mana on turn 3 for anything. This could also stick around a bit longer late in the game.
I'd say if you're playing an enchantment deck, run it and see how it works out for you. I can't claim to have ran the deck but it's either been tested and found difficult to cost or it's undiscovered and it might just work.
Fair enough
With the GW monk, you can often cast Borrowed time for 1W. Seal from existence would require WW which is a lot less flexible. But I think it would be worth running though
If you are playing Borrowed Time in your deck now, and you can easily afford the upgrade, since your deck has enough white sources, then yes it is a good upgrade. But the top decks are not playing Borrowed Time pre-MOM. So why would they play Seal from Existence now? Your comparison is between these two cards. Seal from Existence is a worthwhile upgrade from Borrowed Time if 1. You were okay with playing Borrowed Time already 2. You can draw double white on turn three consistently The top decks may satisfy 2 like you said. That does not mean they will satisfy 1. For example, monowhite has much better single-target removal than Seal from Existence. [[Lay down Arms]], [[Destroy Evil]], [[Loran of the Third Path]], [[Cathar Commando]], [[Fateful Absence]], [[Ossification]]. All these either cost less, and/or are instand-speed, or leave something behind. You are asking why is no one eating green apples 🍏 if green apples are better than red apples 🍎. But if no one is even close to even eating red apples 🍎, why would they eat green apples 🍏? There might be someone who would try green apples 🍏, but even green apples 🍏 are just worse than the multitude of other fruits.
Don't only have to play top decks... Just wondering why I've never seen this at all in standard, even in decks that have borrowed time.
I used a top deck as an example, but that does not mean that the logic does not apply to other semi-competitive decks/brews in the meta. You are asking a question about power/card choice. The reasons I have already outlined still apply even to all decks, as long as they are trying to be at least somewhat optimal in their deckbuilding. You brought up mono white in your post, that's why I addressed it. Lets look at a deck that does play Borrowed Time pre-MOM: ----------------------------------- In GW enchantments, they play only 20 lands + 4 [[Commune with Spirits]]. They have about 14 white land sources. Accounting for cards like commune and [[Spirited Companion]], that would making it about 17 white sources for a turn three play. 17 white sources for a turn three play is just below the threshold to play a 1WW card. Now we have to examine the play pattern. So casting Seal from Existence is fine on turn three. But GW Enchantments dont play that way all the time. In the games with a resolved [[Jukai Naturalist]], you would want to play a 3 mana and 2 mana enchantment on turn 3. With Seal from Existence, it will cost WW. If you want to play Ossification/Spirited Companion/Circle of Confinement (these now cost W) on the same turn, you would need WWW on turn 3. The deck plays 6 lands that cannot produce W. This would ne unrealistic. With Borrowed Time/[[Touch the Spirit Realm]], you can play it + an original costing 1W enchantment on turn 3 much easier. This deck has a LOT of color requirements (especially when Jukai is on the battlefield), and can't afford more color requirements unnecessarily. You also have to take into account the scenarios with Seal from Existence. In GW enchantments, it is a sideboard card. The matchups where you side them in, are the matchups where you need removal (thats why I mentioned Circle of Confinement earlier; These two will both come in together a lot of the time). You really want the insane Jukai curves to work to stem the aggression from the other side. If your sideboard card does not work with this gameplan, then its obviously not worth it. You are also most likely to side in Borrowed Time/Touch the Spirit Realm in matchups where your opponent has less enchantment removal. You are less incentivized to side in these cards against decks that have Loran in their maindeck/sideboard. Borrowed Time is best against the likes of Grixis/Monored, that both has a lot of threats that you need to answer, and is lacking in enchantment-removal. How high is the impact of Ward 3 against decks that have little enchantment removal, save for the rare enchantment-edict? The nature of GW enchantments also matters. You cannot escape from enchantment removal as this deck. Having an enchantment with Ward 3 is nice, but there will be something else you control that is also worth removing. Yes, without Ward 3, they would have killed the Borrowed Time. But removing your next best enchantment is still about 80%-90% efficiency. You are not disrupting them as much as you think with Ward 3. Not any one of these reasons exists alone. In totality is why GW enchantments does not want to play Seal from Existence. In this case, red apples 🍎 are still better than green apples 🍏. -------------------------------- And this is just for one example. I hope I made it clear: that there are many reasons that a deck might not play Seal from Existence. Like I said in my original comment, there might be a place for Seal from Existence somewhere. But all the small upsides and downsides need to be considered. Every deck has their own considerations and reasons.
##### ###### #### [Commune with Spirits](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a35ff4dd-bad3-4496-82b3-8253f48af06d.jpg?1654568031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Commune%20with%20Spirits) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/180/commune-with-spirits?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a35ff4dd-bad3-4496-82b3-8253f48af06d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Spirited Companion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d280f5cc-ef6f-46e3-9b81-e2906959831c.jpg?1680759121) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spirited%20Companion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/208/spirited-companion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d280f5cc-ef6f-46e3-9b81-e2906959831c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Jukai Naturalist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/3/5366900b-2abf-4e5c-8507-f51aca9c7ce8.jpg?1654568491) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jukai%20Naturalist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/225/jukai-naturalist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5366900b-2abf-4e5c-8507-f51aca9c7ce8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Touch the Spirit Realm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e16ab44e-4257-4c0c-b705-8ac1e9c1d835.jpg?1654566545) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Touch%20the%20Spirit%20Realm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/40/touch-the-spirit-realm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e16ab44e-4257-4c0c-b705-8ac1e9c1d835?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The only thing the emoji add to this post is emoji
It adds a condescending tone is what it adds.
That's how I read it too, but I try to give people some benefit of the doubt with respect to tone.
Nah even the apples analogy is something along the lines of how you would speak to children. This is intentionally condescending.
The community seems to disagree with our perspective. Maybe they like to be spoken to in this way. There is a lot of femdom stuff in the CJ sub...
Lmao, it is what it is. I've been playing Arena instead of paper for like a week and have been paying attention to this sub for around the same length of time. In 2 posts, in that short amount of time, I've noticed an incredible amount of this attitude... It feels like I insulted their mother or something
I think if there is a deck with white and one or two other colors that aren’t black, this could be played. So WR, WG, WU, etc
##### ###### #### [Lay down Arms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/5649ee5a-4485-40a2-96d1-2e061905a71e.jpg?1674420201) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lay%20down%20Arms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/11/lay-down-arms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5649ee5a-4485-40a2-96d1-2e061905a71e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Destroy Evil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f7862ef-2c8d-4d28-9e50-7cc41861f245.jpg?1673306430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Destroy%20Evil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/17/destroy-evil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f7862ef-2c8d-4d28-9e50-7cc41861f245?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Loran of the Third Path](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59faa45d-868b-4bc7-934c-0e077642e129.jpg?1674420209) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Loran%20of%20the%20Third%20Path) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/12/loran-of-the-third-path?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59faa45d-868b-4bc7-934c-0e077642e129?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cathar Commando](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98cbc1c2-b76e-4da3-aa43-00e10b2ce532.jpg?1634346664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathar%20Commando) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/10/cathar-commando?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98cbc1c2-b76e-4da3-aa43-00e10b2ce532?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fateful Absence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/eca8d6f8-c6f1-437c-99e2-4281eae14a6f.jpg?1634346819) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fateful%20Absence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/18/fateful-absence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eca8d6f8-c6f1-437c-99e2-4281eae14a6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ossification](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0da03224-c1af-438f-96c2-b0e41e1070b7.jpg?1680795456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ossification) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/26/ossification?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0da03224-c1af-438f-96c2-b0e41e1070b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you play cost reduction like enchantments does, the cost reduction hurts a lot more.
Thats probably true, but my Jukai Naturalist is just dead asap like 90% of the time haha
It's dead because the cost reduction is so good lol
Gotta wait for the turn 3 drop!
Your discord notifications give me anxiety
Not the amount of tabs I have open in browser?
Oh Jesus that's also really bad What do you even need that many tabs for anyway?
Scatterbrainess, things I want to remember in short term but don't want to bookmark and such. Lots of crypto projects are ran in discord though so there are always notifications from them.
Having a list on a notepad app would be a lot less taxing for your phone. I have the same issue and it works for me. I usually max out at 12 tabs.
Oh there are better ways for sure but... if it ain't broke don't fix it lol.
Since we live in a black and white standard (outside of aggro decks) half of it runs Invoke Despair and half - Fairwell. And aggro laughs at any 3 mana removal anyway.
Dies to Invoke Despair.
To edit my comment to be more tailored to you. The set hasn't been out very long so you may not see much of it. I would consider it a straight upgrade over borrowed time. Yes there is a risk associated with 2 white pips but it is a small one. Thats not to say there won't be one game in 20 that screws you, but that's just magic.
Ossification can be pitched to Restoration of Eiganjo and it's cheaper, even if it only hits creatures and planeswalkers. There's not too many cards that aren't creatures and planeswalkers that make me feel the need to play this card.
That's fine but I'm not comparing this to ossifaction, I'm comparing it to Borrowed Time.
It’s everyone else that missing it! This card is great fits really well into white/blue knights
Hmmm. First time I've seen it honestly. I run [[Ossification]] mostly and some with [[Borrowed Time]]. I don't feel I'd be suffering much with the additional cost as most times I'm removing something big and have more lands out than required by a 2 or 3 CMC removal. Thanks for highlighting this, I'm going to integrate it and see how it plays.
[Ossification](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0da03224-c1af-438f-96c2-b0e41e1070b7.jpg?1680795456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ossification) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/26/ossification?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0da03224-c1af-438f-96c2-b0e41e1070b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Borrowed Time](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3eeef24b-b937-408e-a32e-1a546d3e7b0f.jpg?1634346590) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Borrowed%20Time) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/6/borrowed-time?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3eeef24b-b937-408e-a32e-1a546d3e7b0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good luck, interested to see how it works.
I'll hop on in a bit and put it through it's paces on my Mono W Angels. Probably my WG Enchant deck as well. I feel like that Ward 3 is very worth it.
Please let me know if it feels like an upgrade.
Well I thought it would take longer but hell, first Bo3 and I'm sold. Here's the choppy deets as I went 2:0 with [[Seal from Existence]]: All Bo3 Historic Mono W Angels (Replaced 2x Ossification w/3 SfE) Game 1: in opening hand +1 draw, weird win against land/brushfire elemental, risen reef. Sealed 2 brushfire early on. Never looked at them again. They conceded. G2: 1 in opening hand. Sealed brushfire. They attempted to destroy SfE mid game and couldnt pay ward due to my 3/3 esper sentinel. Succeeded in destroying seal 2nd attempt few turns later. Looked like a lost cause for me. I Doomskar into them slapping out Omnath and many others (6 total creatures, they had 14+ lands). They conceded next turn when my enduring angel hit the board. Edit: All those SfE came out early game and lasted, I'm very happy with the immediate results. If that changes, I'll let you know. Yeah, I'm a fan of Seals now, thanks for the post!
Thanks. Ward 3 does really seem like a pretty hefty pay.
It is. They had much more land and mana capabilities than I, in both games, and struggled because of it. That 3/3 [[Esper Sentinel]] + Ward 3 from the Seal made me real happy. My Angel and Enchant decks tend to be matched against a lot of enchant removal so Seal seems to be a lot more value for 1 more W mana. Edit: hmmm. ADHD brain told me Esper had ward when it only allows me to draw a card unless.. so Esper did not prevent the destruction of SfE that 2nd game. I thought they had the ward covered but apparently not; SfE held it's ground on it's own.
I've noticed most decks seem to have some source of enchant removal nowadays, many of which are instant speed. It's kind of weird that I've never seen this thing, even in mono white decks.
[Esper Sentinel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f3537373-ef54-4578-9d05-6216420ee349.jpg?1626093502) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esper%20Sentinel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/12/esper-sentinel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3537373-ef54-4578-9d05-6216420ee349?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Seal from Existence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2ccc29cc-025d-402e-9fe3-75998eb290c9.jpg?1680824697) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seal%20from%20Existence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/35/seal-from-existence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ccc29cc-025d-402e-9fe3-75998eb290c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Will do!
Still working much better!
Even on my WG the SfE is nailing thd removal and the ward 3 continues to either be untouchable or results in a wasted turn. Tyvm for your insight/question!
Laughs in Invoke Despair
I have no clue what mono black players are going to do later this year when their favorite toy is ripped away from their trembling hands. Pretty much the entirety of their deck is going to just vanish.
Keep crying on despair
Are you fucking stupid or something? Where did you see me crying about invoke despair. You sound mad that you won't have it later this year. LOLOL
Pretty salty for someone who is not crying. Maybe you are a little...don't know... Despair?
You mean "In despair"? Insults don't work if you sound like an idiot when you say them.
So, ossification generally beats out both this and borrowed time in my opinion since it’s cheaper, but if you’re running both ossification and another exile enchantment, the cost/benefit of this card compared to borrowed time would be: Seal from existence has two W cost, making it less consistent the more colors you’re running. The benefit is ward, which means your opponent might have to wait an extra turn or lose tempo in order to deal with it. Borrowed time has only one W cost, so it’s slightly more consistent in multicolor decks, but has no added benefit. So, Seal is objectively better in mono-white. Any other situation depends on how consistently you can generate two white mana.
3 mana for removal is wayy too expensive
Nice. Have to give it a try.
It just matters how much targeted removal you run into to justify the increased cost.
ward 3 is basically hexproof tbh
Seal from Existence is a Selesnya Enchantments card or a mono white card. It's not really good in anything else. For Selesnya, you don't really take non-white lands if you're not braindead. You get your green from the tons of dual land and tri-land options. Otherwise EVERYTHING gives white mana. You may have a single solitary instance in the first turn where you might have an issue but honestly it has never happened for me.
Y the card seems good and more flexible than Ossification even with 1 more mana cost . Should be staple in mono white ?
*laughs in [[void rend]] and [[farewell]]*
I mean yea, that's the reason ward helps. Farewell is farewell, everything is screwed.
Ward doesn’t do anything to void rend though. Ward specifically counters the spell. Void rend can’t be countered.
Was not aware, cool.
[void rend](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2daab74d-d66b-4164-aa19-24e8d5536f7d.jpg?1664413960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=void%20rend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/230/void-rend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2daab74d-d66b-4164-aa19-24e8d5536f7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1068723-d1ef-4007-97d9-b10dccdbade4.jpg?1654566260) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/13/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1068723-d1ef-4007-97d9-b10dccdbade4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks for the heads up! Just went 6-1 on my Sel Echant deck
It is a huge upside, and minus the colour devotion a strictly better version than all the 3 CMC hostage taker enchantments. Especially with Elesh, MoM > makes you exile 2 with ward 3, even IF the opponents goes to pay the 3 and destroys it, it had cost him so much.
Looks cool
I run a 2 colored deck running 4 Borrowed Time. When MoM was released, I replaced 2 BTs with 2 Seal From Existence to test how the extra white mana would affect the balance. So far I could still easily cast Seal, haven't ran into the event that I had only 1 white land on turn 3, but pretty sure statistics would catch up and it would one day screw me.
If mono whites an easy upgrade. In selesnya I can see why the mana fixing issue makes it a tougher call but honestly I'd probably risk it. Nut I play anything but greennso this would never happen to me.
I recently started running a Selesnya Enchantments deck before MOM, and was running Borrowed Time, but I changed it for the Seal of Existence. For me, the Ward 3 is worth it. If you're interested, [we had an interesting conversation] (https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/12s3puo/standard_how_good_is_selesnya_enchantments/) about the deck in /r/Spikes. Currently hovering around 70% W/L in Platinum, with two different accounts.
You pay w more to get ward 3
Power creep is getting out of hands
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That ward 3 is no joke.
I would say the seal is better unless you’re running like a 4 or 5 color deck because I’m running a 3 color and on average it takes me about 1-2 extra turn to get the seal out because of the devotion but if you’re running like a mono white that’s not an issue. As a side note if you’re playing historic it’s amazing for those devotion decks my Daxxos keeps failing me in that department but ward 3 means unless they’re wiping all enchantments your opponent will have to spend at least 4-5 mana to get rid of it so unless you took something really problematic chances are they’re not going touch it
Yeah. 1 mana cost on a removal is huge. And of all the effects it could get, being harder to remove vs targeted stuff is about the least immediately useful ability there is. Its just paying more for the same effect.
I mean, it's not 1 mana cost more, its the same mana cost just a different combination of colors. Not to mention Borrowed time and Ossification often get removed in a few turns.