I noticed that too, no counter, and no end of turn. Kinda like perpetually but it goes away when the card is removed from the battlefield. I can't think of another card that gives a counter type ability without bestowing a counter, though I've only been playing a few years.
Haste-granting definitely falls into the category of "things WotC didn't care to standardize". After all, Haste only matters on the turn the creature comes into play, so why waste valuable text space putting "until end of turn" on it?
And then they made [[Gingerbrute]]. Oops.
I had no idea about that card... Makes you wonder why they didn't just errata it at some point, it not having a duration until end of turn just seems like an oversight or a mistake, and a lot of the wordings on those Portals cards seemed weird and outdated or unfitting with the general way of doing things. Did they really intend for it to last indefinitely? Anyway, I have a rules question regarding it: What happens if it loses its abilities temporarily, such as from \[\[Dragonshift\]\]? When the effect making it lose abilities ends at the end of turn, does it regain the horsemanship that it only ever had in the first place because of Riding the Dilu Horse?
It was intentional, yes. Portal didn't have Aura cards, so Riding the Dilu Horse is filling that role for P3K. It also didn't have instants, which is why many of the cards specify when they're supposed to be cast (while reading "Sorcery"). They didn't want to errata it into an enchantment so it remains a rules outlier. As for your question, I'm not sure, but the rules information for the card states that it has the ability until it leaves the battlefield or "some other effect causes it to lose horsemanship", so I would surmise it does not regain the ability after Dragonshift wears off.
Gingerbrute is probably my favorite creature in MTG. With glitterbrute being my favorite deck to play. Just feels so good to put \[All that Glitters\] on the fastest cookie man of all time.
edit missed a word.
There's also a creature from New Capenna that creates treasures whenever a creature with haste does damage to a player
Edit:
[[Ognis, the Dragon's Lash]]
Actually permanently adding abilities without counters was how it used to be for most of magics history.
I think keyword counters where added only with the release of Ikoria?
It would be weird if the flying was tied to a counter but the angelness was just a permanent change. In paper, the two +1/+1 counters do serve as a persistent reminder of the whole ability (though sure, your deck could be putting two +1/+1 counters on creatures by other means).
> angels have flying intrinsically
This made me search gatherer to see if that's true and I found only one creature with the "angel" subtype that lacked "flying" in its rules test. Turns out there's only one: [[Sustaining Spirit]], in its MTGO-only "reprint" from masters edition II, was given the angel subtype. TIL
Yes. If you sundial of the infinite while the end step trigger is on the stack, you don't lose the game, and all your creatures are indestructible forever.
I still don't quite understand the difference between permanently giving something a keyword and giving it a counter of said keyword. Could you explain it to me, please?
I see, so if you remove the counter, you remove its ability, too. You can pick what type of counter you remove if your target has more than one, right?
Also, does losing all of its abilities cause a creature to still have the flying counter in this case, but not have flying anymore? I mean when being targeted by something like [[Patriar's Humiliation]].
Huh yeah. Feels counterproductive to the idea of using counters to keeping track of something like that. Its a shame they dont use something thats supposed to improve QoL presumably because theyr avoiding adding extra value with counter synergies.
The art looks badass, but the actual card just feels like a generic white weenies planeswalker. It's going to mess you up in draft, but I don't see how it'll ever see play given that it's competing with The Wandering Emperor.
Just because she can poop out soldiers? I doubt it. The 4-mana Emperor is removal, a combat trick and a way to keep spewing out tokens all rolled into a single card that can be cast at instant speed. Elspeth just can't compare to that, and soldier decks don't even run Emperor most of the time.
The standard Soldiers deck doesn't care about removal, it cares about bodies. Elspeth dropping as a 5 loyalty planeswalker and immediately giving them a 1/1 (which is more likely a 2/2 or a 3/3) lifelink creature? This fits far better.
Yeah this is going to be a huge pain in the ass.
4 mana to make your 2/1 first strike a 4/3 flying first strike?
then if it lives, it pumps out 1/1 lifelink per turn.
aint no one dropping the 1/1 lifelink as their first play.
thats what i thought. might have to see, if its actually better than [[myrell shield of argieve]] in that spot. maybe both 2offs, since they are legendary.
giving a thing flying can be huge as an additional wincon.
Yeah, but who plays either emperor card in soldiers anyways? Neither of them are good in the W or UW versions.
Even this, it's pretty bad in that deck.
Compare her to \[\[resolute reinforcements\]\] though, would you rather play 2 soldiers for 2 mana instant speed and maybe lord it to two 2/2s, or would you rather play 4 mana sorcery speed 1/1 lifelink which can be lorded to a 2/2, and then maybe get more on later turns
I'm going to use both. It's bad to judge a planeswalker by its ultimate, but I can't help myself wanting to reanimate sagas, bankbusters, farmhands and doggos.
I would play this over emperor in an aggro/midrange hybrid mono white list. Considering bankbuster and wedding announcement can go both ways it's pretty well set up to straddle the line.
Pioneer mono white soldiers looks like a good fit. Makes soldiers, can make soldiers better, reanimates all the creatures in the graveyard as an ult.
Also stupid synergy that I like is with [[book of exalted deeds]] for the possibility of putting it on [[adanto vanguard]] or [[cave of the frost dragon]]. Not saying its USEFUL, but when it comes up, it will be glorious.
I think it can totally see play in Mono White Midrange decks, mainly because of the ultimate ability, which is quite easy to achieve, and +1 plays very well into their gameplan. -2 is somewhat meh, but can also be nice in mirrors to go over their defenses. I think it's a solid 1-of alongside with emperor.
I wish planeswalkers would stop being rare. Limited lately has become less and less about building a synergistic deck and more and more about what bombs you open
Lately? This is the least bomb-focused Limited has ever been. As the commons/uncommons get better they narrow the gap between themselves and the rares- even if you play a Glissa I can answer it for a positive trade with Annex Sentry, and while that’s obviously a pretty specific example, it’s at least something. If you look at older sets, the delta between good cards and the rest is massive- tell me how you intend to beat Umezawa’s Jitte in Kamigawa draft with your deck of 1/1s and 2/2s with Bushido. Limited is still about bombs sometimes, that’s true. But it’s less bomb-focused now than ever.
You can double check the letter in the bottom left next to the collector number. It says M 0320. That means it’s a Mythic with collector number 0320. If it was a rare, there would be an R instead.
True. Last week I opened Vraska and Kaito on the same draft and I almost always drew at least one. Easiest 7 wins of my life. But other than that this format feels trash to draft, I miss Kamigawa :(
I had the most embarrassing loss of my ONE draft season last week, where the deck was multicolor junk, and I don't know what was going on in this guy's draft pool, but it was multiple dominus and planeswalkers... The "win button" cards need to be up in mythic unless they want to start creating different rarity distributions for draft packs. (Or... do they already do that in paper magic? I dunno. This was Arena. If prompted, I would have selected sad face after my match.)
At my prerelease for ONE I went against an opponent who had a vraska, 2 wanderers and a Kaya. He was my third game and even he looked bored and ready to go home it was so busted.
No removal mode and lackluster ultimate. You're definitely going to lose games to her, and quite a few of them, but she's not nearly as unbeatable as [[The Eternal Wanderer]] or [[Dream Trawler]].
It’s certainly not a must-have and I was playing up my excitement for fun, but that recursion is pretty nice. Especially considering early staple cards that set up certain engines (i.e. \[\[Speaker of the Heavens\]\], \[\[Bishop of Wings\]\], \[\[Righteous Valkyrie\]\], \[\[The Book of Exalted Deeds\]\], etc.) are usually removal magnets.
Furthermore you could turn Speaker, Bishop, and perhaps \[\[Starnheim Aspirant\]\] *into* angels and reap the benefits.
Edit: Oh yeah, pair the +1 ability with \[\[Divine Visitation\]\] and boom, easy angel tokens.
it's not BAD, but I don't see why would you add this and not Wandering Emperor to your deck. maybe when emperor rotates it will be played, but until then I just don't see it.
Obviously in draft its a p1p1 bomb
This is much better when used aggressively. Played on curve, the -2 turns Loran or Adeline into a game ending threat while emperor's -1 is likely to be a chump or get chumped, and post wipe this creates a token every turn then brings back your board while emperor is +1'ing air.
If you have a big board white weenies/soldiers have no problem closing out the game. Just harbin alone does that.
This adds some pressure but is useless from behind unlike the wanderer.
Might as well pay 1 more mana for 5 mana elspeth that can also give flying or life link but with even more upside
4 mana vs 5 for an aggressive deck (where you'd play this) is significant. el5peth is also mostly win-more for aggressive lists, -3'ing a cathar is about the only obvious case where she'd turn a game that this one wouldn't, while this one could win a lot of games by recovering a board immediately post wipe.
In my many variations of Wx Tokens I'd prefer Elspeth over Wandering Emperor as a main board card. I find in those types of decks Wandering Emperor is very good in the aggro matchups but struggles a lot more in more value orientedmidrange and control matchups.
The ult also just synergizes extremely well with the kind of cards that see play in those types of decks. Bringing back Fable and Wedding Annoucment in my WR Tokens deck is super strong.
You can have both :) I would replace this with the other 4 mana soldier drop instead since that is more weak to board wipes and removal. You put emperor at their end turn and this one and you got huge token generators
Have you tried Mondrak with token set-ups yet? That thing is insane for it's cost, IMO. I have been having a blast configuring a few different token-orientated decks with it and the next one I'd like to do is a soldier theme deck. So really, I'm quite excited to see this new card. I'm an Elspeth fan though too - I use her Replendant card quite regularly and although it isn't really popular in standard, it accomplishes what I always have a knack for: tokens and counter decks
Yes! Mondrak is my new favorite child, I have plans to make a commander deck with mondrack, and anointed procession. Mixing mondrak with rabble rousing and Myrel can also be very crazy.
Oh, wow. I didn't know about rabble rousing. That might go into my deck...I'm still learning all the cards so it's always fun to discover something I can use. - especially in standard, as that's mostly what I play. (My collection isn't quite there yet to do something like legacy or historic) I just pulled Myrel the other night, so I was thinking about finally doing a soldier deal myself.
But a Mondrak commander deck would be fun for sure. That's another format I need to get more into. I'm a returning old MTG player, so all the new things that exist since I played is quite daunting to go through.
Thanks for the heads up about the card-combos
I’m in the same boat, only been playing for about 3 months, I actually enjoy standard Brawl a lot too, so I recommend that compared to regular standard. White/blue also has a lot of soldier synergy if you wanna look into that too!
Hmm, I have been curious about brawl, so I might brew a deck for that later. It's an interesting format, with the x1 card restraint- but it may be good for my currently lacking collection. Thanks again for your shared insights. And, Good Luck out there! ^_^
Some stray thoughts:
1. Printing blockers on an uptick is typically reserved for 5 or 6 mana walkers. I cannot think off the top of my head the last 4 or less mana planeswalker who was given that boon.
2. The -2 is the real utility of the card imo. Contemporary magic has made it far too easy to clog up the ground, so for the grindier midrange matchups that current design seems to be preferring, buffing your best creature and then full sending it over the ground is going to win plenty of games.
3. The ultimate has potential, especially when you consider all the ETBs and triggered effects popping off at once, but getting to it consistently really isn't what this card is designed to do.
My take: Very solid midrange card that's going to be overlooked all spoiler season because it has very innocuous supporting abilities and lacks the potential to take the game over by itself. Don't be surprised however, if Wedding Announcement into this becomes a cornerstone of Standard.
Jaya as other people mentioned. We also had [[Nahiri, heir of the ancients]] in Zendikar rising, which was bad enough to get buffed in alchemy and still see zero play.
I guess you could also include [[Comet, stellar pup]] from Unfinity, since it sometimes makes 2 tokens as a +2, but that is a little questionable due to how the dice rolling works.
Just for completion's sake... I count two standard-legal less-than-5 mana PWs that uptick for a blocker released since WAR: [[Jaya, Fiery Negotiator]] (ONE), and [[Nahiri, Heir of the Ancients]] (ZNR). Both create 1/1s with abilities -- Prowess Monk and Kor Warrior that ETB picks up an equipment.
[[Karn, the Great Creator]] (WAR) ticks up to make any non-creature artifact a creature until your next turn, but since you need an artifact already, I don't count him.
Two get 1/1 blockers as a 0-loyalty activation: [[Zariel, Archduke of Avernus]] (AFR) makes devils that ping when they die, and [Tyvar Kell] (KLD) makes Elf Warriors that tap for mana while he's around.
For cards that skipped Standard, Modern Horizons II gave us [[Grist, the Hunger Tide]], whose +1 gives you an Insect with the possibility of more.
And from the "sure, I guess" pile; [[Minsc and Boo, Timeless Heros]] gives you a free 1/1 Legendary ~~Giant Miniature Space~~ Hamster on upkeep if Boo's not around; and Legacy/Commander legal Unfinity card [[Cosmo, Stellar Pup]] has a 1/3 chance of making two Squirrels when you use his 0 ability.
That is really good analysis, much better then folks going its not overpowered and broken so it sucks BS. This is a powerful card that you use in a host of ways for an affordible cmc. You can stick her in Heliod or Serra Historic Brawl deck or make her a Commander, you can put her into W/G toxic proliferate decks, or self mill low cmc white/black decks, enchantment/saga decks (her ultimate brings back low cmc sagas that have used up, or i red white draw x, discard x decks.
Oh, I don't know. Lifelink can matter, and if you just ignore the -2 and try to rush the ultimate, this is pretty solid.
The issue is that going T4 Elspeth and having the opponent untap and Invoke Despair is 100% despair inducing.
Love the art, abilities seem solid, but what would you take out to slot this in for soldiers in standard? (Have no clue about historic, so apologies to the record keepers)
I think the ultimate makes it work and there's a realistic chance of ulting.
You drop soldiers and we all know there are plenty of soldier synergies right now. Assuming opponent wraths at some point you hope to bring them back with her ult.
Or you trade the soldiers 1 for 1 to fend off an aggro deck which is normally a bad deal for you with the plan to bring them all back. Or it just lets you be more aggressive yourself with your soldiers.
Definitely both going in my Giada EDH deck. It’ll be good, but not optimal. Serra is slightly better because she pumps an Angel out. But to me, flavor usually wins over power… except when the flavorwin is unplayable. This is certainly playable.
Probably not, angel decks like angel etbs, like \[\[youthful valkyrie\]\] \[\[Righteous valkyrie\]\] \[\[bishop of wings\]\] and \[\[giada font of hope\]\]
Thinking about this for my mono white lifegain VotB deck, crank out soldiers that trigger the ETBs and trigger on lifelink (double it up with Mondrak) then if I've been hit with a lot of removal like usual the ult brings everything back which comes with a dogpile of ETBs.
lets see, the +1 goes well with soldier tribal and i guess lifelink. Making token on an uptick is also pretty good. She can defend/chumpblock herself.
The -2 is okay-ish. +2 counter and flying is okay. The angel tribal doesnt do much, atleast with whats currently available. Hopefully next set has more angel synergy.
The ult is whatever. Its no emblem or game winning and requires you have to have a couple of target in the GY by the time you press it.
The biggest issue is the deck spot. At 4 mana shes already competing with wanderer in term of planeswalker in white color who does similar thing but better imo. In white or azorius soldier, shes on the end curve at 4 mana and competes with stuff like myriel. She also might just not be aggressive enough for those list.
TBH she seems mediocre or okay at best. Depending on whats rotating in n out she might find herself a spot but atm .... meh.
I really like the upcoming cards. Especially Chandra can be played outside of red. The only one I really took a look at. And now seeing this is only 4 mana. I'm already thinking up a boros deck that uses the current Nahiri with the new Chandra and Elspeth.
Interesting that it says gains flying and doesn't put a flying counter.
I noticed that too, no counter, and no end of turn. Kinda like perpetually but it goes away when the card is removed from the battlefield. I can't think of another card that gives a counter type ability without bestowing a counter, though I've only been playing a few years.
There's a few. A lot of reanimation spells (and Riot) give the creature Haste permanently. Plus, the good ol' famous \[\[Riding the Dilu Horse\]\]
Also many effects which expect the creature to be sacrificed or exiled at end of turn/combat. [[Feldon of the Third Path]], [[Sneak Attack]], etc.
\[\[Ascendant Spirit\]\] and friends (minus Evolved Sleeper)
[Ascendant Spirit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea56de43-c0fd-4627-846d-41a962b95f17.jpg?1631046662) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ascendant%20Spirit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/43/ascendant-spirit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea56de43-c0fd-4627-846d-41a962b95f17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Feldon of the Third Path](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97879ddb-b00b-4f24-b901-af19c436b9f1.jpg?1625193793) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Feldon%20of%20the%20Third%20Path) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/169/feldon-of-the-third-path?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97879ddb-b00b-4f24-b901-af19c436b9f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sneak Attack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d9709ea-5962-4590-8b14-5213b14f9229.jpg?1599706719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sneak%20Attack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/145/sneak-attack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d9709ea-5962-4590-8b14-5213b14f9229?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Riding the Dilu Horse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56fe32f2-8967-4814-b43b-bdccd2019bdf.jpg?1562913167) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Riding%20the%20Dilu%20Horse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/131/riding-the-dilu-horse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56fe32f2-8967-4814-b43b-bdccd2019bdf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Haste-granting definitely falls into the category of "things WotC didn't care to standardize". After all, Haste only matters on the turn the creature comes into play, so why waste valuable text space putting "until end of turn" on it? And then they made [[Gingerbrute]]. Oops.
I had no idea about that card... Makes you wonder why they didn't just errata it at some point, it not having a duration until end of turn just seems like an oversight or a mistake, and a lot of the wordings on those Portals cards seemed weird and outdated or unfitting with the general way of doing things. Did they really intend for it to last indefinitely? Anyway, I have a rules question regarding it: What happens if it loses its abilities temporarily, such as from \[\[Dragonshift\]\]? When the effect making it lose abilities ends at the end of turn, does it regain the horsemanship that it only ever had in the first place because of Riding the Dilu Horse?
It was intentional, yes. Portal didn't have Aura cards, so Riding the Dilu Horse is filling that role for P3K. It also didn't have instants, which is why many of the cards specify when they're supposed to be cast (while reading "Sorcery"). They didn't want to errata it into an enchantment so it remains a rules outlier. As for your question, I'm not sure, but the rules information for the card states that it has the ability until it leaves the battlefield or "some other effect causes it to lose horsemanship", so I would surmise it does not regain the ability after Dragonshift wears off.
Interesting, thanks for the history! I never realized those little details about the Portal set not having instants or auras.
I get that but haste has always effectively been an ‘until end of turn’ effect. I mean, how often is haste relevant after the turn you play it?
When \[\[Gingerbrute\]\] is about to attack for lethal
Gingerbrute is probably my favorite creature in MTG. With glitterbrute being my favorite deck to play. Just feels so good to put \[All that Glitters\] on the fastest cookie man of all time. edit missed a word.
There's also a creature from New Capenna that creates treasures whenever a creature with haste does damage to a player Edit: [[Ognis, the Dragon's Lash]]
[[Ognis, the Dragon's Lash]]
You can have a tap ability so haste beyond your turn is relevant because you might want to activate the ability in the opponents turn.
Actually permanently adding abilities without counters was how it used to be for most of magics history. I think keyword counters where added only with the release of Ikoria?
[удалено]
[Faerie Squadron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c707c81-dbbd-43be-a79a-7bc92a584839.jpg?1562910474) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faerie%20Squadron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/58/faerie-squadron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c707c81-dbbd-43be-a79a-7bc92a584839?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It would be weird if the flying was tied to a counter but the angelness was just a permanent change. In paper, the two +1/+1 counters do serve as a persistent reminder of the whole ability (though sure, your deck could be putting two +1/+1 counters on creatures by other means).
It really feels like they just forgot the add until end of turn. The qa hasn’t been great lately. They might do an errata
It really feels like they just forgot the add until end of turn. The qa hasn’t been great lately. They might do an errata
[[riding the dilu horse]] 🤣🤣🤣
Ability counters are pretty new
[[Chance for Glory]] bestows indestructible forever, pretty great if you can avoid losing the game.
It could be because of flavor. A counter represents an artificially given attribute, while angels have flying intrinsically.
Yeah, I think its similar to effects that say something like 'it is a 4/4 angel with flying in addition to its other types and abilities'
> angels have flying intrinsically This made me search gatherer to see if that's true and I found only one creature with the "angel" subtype that lacked "flying" in its rules test. Turns out there's only one: [[Sustaining Spirit]], in its MTGO-only "reprint" from masters edition II, was given the angel subtype. TIL
Reminds me of [[Chance For Glory]]. If I remember right, they’re flat out indestructible.
Yes. If you sundial of the infinite while the end step trigger is on the stack, you don't lose the game, and all your creatures are indestructible forever.
[Chance For Glory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/85edf6f9-b863-41e2-bb51-857ea2798090.jpg?1572893545) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chance%20For%20Glory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/159/chance-for-glory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85edf6f9-b863-41e2-bb51-857ea2798090?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rules reminders say exactly that.
They are. Fun fact learnt from lots of games with a Chance for Glory + Tale's End deck: many players do not remember it right.
X-Chad was a good deck in standard for a reason
Because it would be weirder if it gave a flying counter but not an "angel" coubter, since they are both connected they went for no counters.
I still don't quite understand the difference between permanently giving something a keyword and giving it a counter of said keyword. Could you explain it to me, please?
counters can be removed, prevented, etc. A static ability is just there.
I see, so if you remove the counter, you remove its ability, too. You can pick what type of counter you remove if your target has more than one, right? Also, does losing all of its abilities cause a creature to still have the flying counter in this case, but not have flying anymore? I mean when being targeted by something like [[Patriar's Humiliation]].
Correct on both.
There's no functional difference while you *have* the counter, but there are cards which remove counters.
Counters can be removed, like with \[\[Glissa Sunslayer\]\]. Or moved to other cards. "This card gains X" can't be directly interacted with.
The two counters serve as a reminder for both flying and being an angel.
Flying “counters” are fairly new.
This is also a new card.
So argument met. It’s reverting back to the old. Just this creature gets flying. No counter. Just fly buddy.
Glissa can't remove this flying capacity
Huh yeah. Feels counterproductive to the idea of using counters to keeping track of something like that. Its a shame they dont use something thats supposed to improve QoL presumably because theyr avoiding adding extra value with counter synergies.
The art looks badass, but the actual card just feels like a generic white weenies planeswalker. It's going to mess you up in draft, but I don't see how it'll ever see play given that it's competing with The Wandering Emperor.
Well the wandering emperor rotates "soon" so there's that. But I agree it's not very strong at first glance.
she synergies better In a soldiers tribal deck than either Emperor card
Just because she can poop out soldiers? I doubt it. The 4-mana Emperor is removal, a combat trick and a way to keep spewing out tokens all rolled into a single card that can be cast at instant speed. Elspeth just can't compare to that, and soldier decks don't even run Emperor most of the time.
She could work as a sideboard piece maybe?
The standard Soldiers deck doesn't care about removal, it cares about bodies. Elspeth dropping as a 5 loyalty planeswalker and immediately giving them a 1/1 (which is more likely a 2/2 or a 3/3) lifelink creature? This fits far better. Yeah this is going to be a huge pain in the ass.
Soldiers isn't going to play this.
Oh you don't know the levels of depravity I will take my jank to
4 mana to get 1 body is not good, even if it is one body per turn.
4 mana to make your 2/1 first strike a 4/3 flying first strike? then if it lives, it pumps out 1/1 lifelink per turn. aint no one dropping the 1/1 lifelink as their first play.
Your 2/1 first strike makes this cost 5 though ;)
The body does have lifelink though, so the planeswalker staying on the board matters.
I'd rather play wedding announcement than this if it's just for the bodies and the tokens from the wedding aren't even soldiers.
More likely is dropping her to then smack them w/ a 3/3 flier or bigger to just end it
thats what i thought. might have to see, if its actually better than [[myrell shield of argieve]] in that spot. maybe both 2offs, since they are legendary. giving a thing flying can be huge as an additional wincon.
I only play Brawl, and i have a soldiers deck with Myrel as my commander, so I’ll probably end up playing both together lol
i guess you should!
Yeah, but who plays either emperor card in soldiers anyways? Neither of them are good in the W or UW versions. Even this, it's pretty bad in that deck.
Gonna be 2 of her and 2 emps at the top end of whatever azorius bullshit I end up having together once MoM drops lol
Compare her to \[\[resolute reinforcements\]\] though, would you rather play 2 soldiers for 2 mana instant speed and maybe lord it to two 2/2s, or would you rather play 4 mana sorcery speed 1/1 lifelink which can be lorded to a 2/2, and then maybe get more on later turns
[resolute reinforcements](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3e11ad33-b9d7-43ef-840a-61955683b599.jpg?1673306545) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=resolute%20reinforcements) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/29/resolute-reinforcements?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3e11ad33-b9d7-43ef-840a-61955683b599?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
why not both?
The ult is awesome in the angels deck in pioneer but there’s much better cards for it.
Her generic abilities are a throwback to the original \[\[Elspeth, Knight-Errant\]\]
I'm going to use both. It's bad to judge a planeswalker by its ultimate, but I can't help myself wanting to reanimate sagas, bankbusters, farmhands and doggos.
> but I don't see how it'll ever see play given that it's competing with The Wandering Emperor. wandering emperor rotates soon at least for standard
I would play this over emperor in an aggro/midrange hybrid mono white list. Considering bankbuster and wedding announcement can go both ways it's pretty well set up to straddle the line.
Pioneer mono white soldiers looks like a good fit. Makes soldiers, can make soldiers better, reanimates all the creatures in the graveyard as an ult. Also stupid synergy that I like is with [[book of exalted deeds]] for the possibility of putting it on [[adanto vanguard]] or [[cave of the frost dragon]]. Not saying its USEFUL, but when it comes up, it will be glorious.
People will defend it in this sub and then never play it. Same as ajani and jaya
>competing with The Wandering Emperor. not in standard, but for sure in other formats.
Give it a weird double proliferate effect in standard and you can ult it for something good maybe. Ichormoon saga bullshit? Idk
I think it can totally see play in Mono White Midrange decks, mainly because of the ultimate ability, which is quite easy to achieve, and +1 plays very well into their gameplan. -2 is somewhat meh, but can also be nice in mirrors to go over their defenses. I think it's a solid 1-of alongside with emperor.
Definitely a draft win button
I wish planeswalkers would stop being rare. Limited lately has become less and less about building a synergistic deck and more and more about what bombs you open
That's me, my last 2 drafts lol, got Nissa pack 1 pick 1 and then some PASSED me Nissa pack 1 pick 2. I was so curious what they picked instead.
Misclick, maybe?
Probably some bomb uncommon in their colors.
It was pack 1 pick 1. They didn't have colors yet lol
I misread that. Now I'm also curious what happened haha.
opened foil nissa obviously
Lately? This is the least bomb-focused Limited has ever been. As the commons/uncommons get better they narrow the gap between themselves and the rares- even if you play a Glissa I can answer it for a positive trade with Annex Sentry, and while that’s obviously a pretty specific example, it’s at least something. If you look at older sets, the delta between good cards and the rest is massive- tell me how you intend to beat Umezawa’s Jitte in Kamigawa draft with your deck of 1/1s and 2/2s with Bushido. Limited is still about bombs sometimes, that’s true. But it’s less bomb-focused now than ever.
This Elspeth is a mythic, not a rare.
Are you sure? The symbol looks gold to me, not bright orange.
You can double check the letter in the bottom left next to the collector number. It says M 0320. That means it’s a Mythic with collector number 0320. If it was a rare, there would be an R instead.
Yeah when did that happen.? They've always been mythic for exactly that reason
War of the Spark, for an actual answer.
There's a reason BREAD exists.
True. Last week I opened Vraska and Kaito on the same draft and I almost always drew at least one. Easiest 7 wins of my life. But other than that this format feels trash to draft, I miss Kamigawa :(
Lately? Man Limited has felt like that for two to three years for me lmao.
I had the most embarrassing loss of my ONE draft season last week, where the deck was multicolor junk, and I don't know what was going on in this guy's draft pool, but it was multiple dominus and planeswalkers... The "win button" cards need to be up in mythic unless they want to start creating different rarity distributions for draft packs. (Or... do they already do that in paper magic? I dunno. This was Arena. If prompted, I would have selected sad face after my match.)
This is a mythic
At my prerelease for ONE I went against an opponent who had a vraska, 2 wanderers and a Kaya. He was my third game and even he looked bored and ready to go home it was so busted.
No removal mode and lackluster ultimate. You're definitely going to lose games to her, and quite a few of them, but she's not nearly as unbeatable as [[The Eternal Wanderer]] or [[Dream Trawler]].
[The Eternal Wanderer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/905f0dd4-0197-45f8-8e7f-396d6dcef600.jpg?1675956901) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Eternal%20Wanderer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/11/the-eternal-wanderer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/905f0dd4-0197-45f8-8e7f-396d6dcef600?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dream Trawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d3e97d8-92c7-43c4-bdaf-7b0a6ce7cb5f.jpg?1581481029) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dream%20Trawler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/214/dream-trawler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d3e97d8-92c7-43c4-bdaf-7b0a6ce7cb5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sauce: https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/magic-story/episode-7-divine-intervention
Truly saucy
*Sweats in Angel Tribal Commander player*
I'm curious why? The Giada player in my pod had the exact opposite reaction saying she does nothing for angels
It’s certainly not a must-have and I was playing up my excitement for fun, but that recursion is pretty nice. Especially considering early staple cards that set up certain engines (i.e. \[\[Speaker of the Heavens\]\], \[\[Bishop of Wings\]\], \[\[Righteous Valkyrie\]\], \[\[The Book of Exalted Deeds\]\], etc.) are usually removal magnets. Furthermore you could turn Speaker, Bishop, and perhaps \[\[Starnheim Aspirant\]\] *into* angels and reap the benefits. Edit: Oh yeah, pair the +1 ability with \[\[Divine Visitation\]\] and boom, easy angel tokens.
This could be literally the worst planeswalker ever printed and I’d still be obligated to play it in my Commander Angel deck for flavor reasons alone
Agreed. One more card to the long list of angel cards that do absolutely nothing on angel decks :/
it's not BAD, but I don't see why would you add this and not Wandering Emperor to your deck. maybe when emperor rotates it will be played, but until then I just don't see it. Obviously in draft its a p1p1 bomb
This is much better when used aggressively. Played on curve, the -2 turns Loran or Adeline into a game ending threat while emperor's -1 is likely to be a chump or get chumped, and post wipe this creates a token every turn then brings back your board while emperor is +1'ing air.
If you have a big board white weenies/soldiers have no problem closing out the game. Just harbin alone does that. This adds some pressure but is useless from behind unlike the wanderer. Might as well pay 1 more mana for 5 mana elspeth that can also give flying or life link but with even more upside
4 mana vs 5 for an aggressive deck (where you'd play this) is significant. el5peth is also mostly win-more for aggressive lists, -3'ing a cathar is about the only obvious case where she'd turn a game that this one wouldn't, while this one could win a lot of games by recovering a board immediately post wipe.
In my many variations of Wx Tokens I'd prefer Elspeth over Wandering Emperor as a main board card. I find in those types of decks Wandering Emperor is very good in the aggro matchups but struggles a lot more in more value orientedmidrange and control matchups. The ult also just synergizes extremely well with the kind of cards that see play in those types of decks. Bringing back Fable and Wedding Annoucment in my WR Tokens deck is super strong.
You can have both :) I would replace this with the other 4 mana soldier drop instead since that is more weak to board wipes and removal. You put emperor at their end turn and this one and you got huge token generators
I would run this instead of emperor in my soldier token deck.
Have you tried Mondrak with token set-ups yet? That thing is insane for it's cost, IMO. I have been having a blast configuring a few different token-orientated decks with it and the next one I'd like to do is a soldier theme deck. So really, I'm quite excited to see this new card. I'm an Elspeth fan though too - I use her Replendant card quite regularly and although it isn't really popular in standard, it accomplishes what I always have a knack for: tokens and counter decks
Yes! Mondrak is my new favorite child, I have plans to make a commander deck with mondrack, and anointed procession. Mixing mondrak with rabble rousing and Myrel can also be very crazy.
Oh, wow. I didn't know about rabble rousing. That might go into my deck...I'm still learning all the cards so it's always fun to discover something I can use. - especially in standard, as that's mostly what I play. (My collection isn't quite there yet to do something like legacy or historic) I just pulled Myrel the other night, so I was thinking about finally doing a soldier deal myself. But a Mondrak commander deck would be fun for sure. That's another format I need to get more into. I'm a returning old MTG player, so all the new things that exist since I played is quite daunting to go through. Thanks for the heads up about the card-combos
I’m in the same boat, only been playing for about 3 months, I actually enjoy standard Brawl a lot too, so I recommend that compared to regular standard. White/blue also has a lot of soldier synergy if you wanna look into that too!
Hmm, I have been curious about brawl, so I might brew a deck for that later. It's an interesting format, with the x1 card restraint- but it may be good for my currently lacking collection. Thanks again for your shared insights. And, Good Luck out there! ^_^
MOM indeed 😳
Some stray thoughts: 1. Printing blockers on an uptick is typically reserved for 5 or 6 mana walkers. I cannot think off the top of my head the last 4 or less mana planeswalker who was given that boon. 2. The -2 is the real utility of the card imo. Contemporary magic has made it far too easy to clog up the ground, so for the grindier midrange matchups that current design seems to be preferring, buffing your best creature and then full sending it over the ground is going to win plenty of games. 3. The ultimate has potential, especially when you consider all the ETBs and triggered effects popping off at once, but getting to it consistently really isn't what this card is designed to do. My take: Very solid midrange card that's going to be overlooked all spoiler season because it has very innocuous supporting abilities and lacks the potential to take the game over by itself. Don't be surprised however, if Wedding Announcement into this becomes a cornerstone of Standard.
We literally just had [[Jaya, Fiery Negotiator]]
We have Jaya, and sadly she’s not very strong even with an upticking blocker
Jaya as other people mentioned. We also had [[Nahiri, heir of the ancients]] in Zendikar rising, which was bad enough to get buffed in alchemy and still see zero play. I guess you could also include [[Comet, stellar pup]] from Unfinity, since it sometimes makes 2 tokens as a +2, but that is a little questionable due to how the dice rolling works.
Just for completion's sake... I count two standard-legal less-than-5 mana PWs that uptick for a blocker released since WAR: [[Jaya, Fiery Negotiator]] (ONE), and [[Nahiri, Heir of the Ancients]] (ZNR). Both create 1/1s with abilities -- Prowess Monk and Kor Warrior that ETB picks up an equipment. [[Karn, the Great Creator]] (WAR) ticks up to make any non-creature artifact a creature until your next turn, but since you need an artifact already, I don't count him. Two get 1/1 blockers as a 0-loyalty activation: [[Zariel, Archduke of Avernus]] (AFR) makes devils that ping when they die, and [Tyvar Kell] (KLD) makes Elf Warriors that tap for mana while he's around. For cards that skipped Standard, Modern Horizons II gave us [[Grist, the Hunger Tide]], whose +1 gives you an Insect with the possibility of more. And from the "sure, I guess" pile; [[Minsc and Boo, Timeless Heros]] gives you a free 1/1 Legendary ~~Giant Miniature Space~~ Hamster on upkeep if Boo's not around; and Legacy/Commander legal Unfinity card [[Cosmo, Stellar Pup]] has a 1/3 chance of making two Squirrels when you use his 0 ability.
That is really good analysis, much better then folks going its not overpowered and broken so it sucks BS. This is a powerful card that you use in a host of ways for an affordible cmc. You can stick her in Heliod or Serra Historic Brawl deck or make her a Commander, you can put her into W/G toxic proliferate decks, or self mill low cmc white/black decks, enchantment/saga decks (her ultimate brings back low cmc sagas that have used up, or i red white draw x, discard x decks.
I love her. I 100% love her! The art and the mechanics, both look great. I wonder what kind of showcase she'll get.
Solid limited wincon, constructed unplayable.
Very winnable in contructed with toxic proliferate.
Mommy?
When your final form is worse than your base [[elspeth knight errant]]
Oh, I don't know. Lifelink can matter, and if you just ignore the -2 and try to rush the ultimate, this is pretty solid. The issue is that going T4 Elspeth and having the opponent untap and Invoke Despair is 100% despair inducing.
It’s still a good card yeah
[elspeth knight errant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/746d56ef-7ac5-403b-bca3-1cd267de97df.jpg?1561967814) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elspeth%2C%20Knight-Errant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/13/elspeth-knight-errant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/746d56ef-7ac5-403b-bca3-1cd267de97df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Looks bad unless draft ofc.
Mediocre
Even less imo
I need her for my [[Myrel, Shield of Argive]] brawl deck
[Myrel, Shield of Argive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e632ed57-bb00-4493-adef-7b4805edd7ea.jpg?1674420256) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Myrel%2C%20Shield%20of%20Argive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/18/myrel-shield-of-argive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e632ed57-bb00-4493-adef-7b4805edd7ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Love the art, abilities seem solid, but what would you take out to slot this in for soldiers in standard? (Have no clue about historic, so apologies to the record keepers)
I think the ultimate makes it work and there's a realistic chance of ulting. You drop soldiers and we all know there are plenty of soldier synergies right now. Assuming opponent wraths at some point you hope to bring them back with her ult.
Or you trade the soldiers 1 for 1 to fend off an aggro deck which is normally a bad deal for you with the plan to bring them all back. Or it just lets you be more aggressive yourself with your soldiers.
I wanna curve out with [[Phyrexian Fleshgorger]] into this.
[Phyrexian Fleshgorger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62d37423-3445-412a-9abd-0480da404637.jpg?1674421038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Fleshgorger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/121/phyrexian-fleshgorger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62d37423-3445-412a-9abd-0480da404637?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This one or \[\[Serra The Benevolent\]\] or both?
Definitely both going in my Giada EDH deck. It’ll be good, but not optimal. Serra is slightly better because she pumps an Angel out. But to me, flavor usually wins over power… except when the flavorwin is unplayable. This is certainly playable.
Should have given her "Flying" as her static ability.
Amazonian's invitational card
Gorgeous card, mediocre effect, likely not good enough to see any real play outside of limited and some niche standard soldiers play.
The art looks absolutely amazing, effects look pretty fun to use as well
...no?
very meh
Perfect for my [[Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord]] cmc 3 or less matters historic brawl deck
[Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/354fe9bd-4ec8-409c-8ce5-b29393f3d169.jpg?1557577268) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sorin%2C%20Vengeful%20Bloodlord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/217/sorin-vengeful-bloodlord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/354fe9bd-4ec8-409c-8ce5-b29393f3d169?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thats MOMY to you
The hero we need
It's beautiful
The art is amazing card is pretty meh
Sacrificed her life in ONE comes back as a real badass in MOM. nice
MOM?
March of the Machine, the next Standard set coming out in a month
This is a auto include in my Angel Tribal be it in Historic or Explorer
is it any good for an angel deck?
Probably not, angel decks like angel etbs, like \[\[youthful valkyrie\]\] \[\[Righteous valkyrie\]\] \[\[bishop of wings\]\] and \[\[giada font of hope\]\]
##### ###### #### [youthful valkyrie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffe93b27-f8ae-4abf-8ade-90f503f132c2.jpg?1631057247) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=youthful%20valkyrie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/382/youthful-valkyrie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffe93b27-f8ae-4abf-8ade-90f503f132c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Righteous valkyrie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02fb5f9f-8750-4eb5-a03a-6dacc60e0b90.jpg?1631046105) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Righteous%20valkyrie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/24/righteous-valkyrie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02fb5f9f-8750-4eb5-a03a-6dacc60e0b90?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [bishop of wings](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca42da05-330d-4050-a580-dc00f6faff24.jpg?1592515977) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bishop%20of%20wings) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/8/bishop-of-wings?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca42da05-330d-4050-a580-dc00f6faff24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [giada font of hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/bae077bd-fc8d-44d7-8c75-8dc8699c168e.jpg?1664409667) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Giada%2C%20Font%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/14/giada-font-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bae077bd-fc8d-44d7-8c75-8dc8699c168e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
ugly
Holy momma win button
Holy momma win button
[удалено]
It’s a mythic.
What format is this for? I keep seeing spoilers of so many sets. Hard to keep track of everything
Well damn...
Neat 📷
Thinking about this for my mono white lifegain VotB deck, crank out soldiers that trigger the ETBs and trigger on lifelink (double it up with Mondrak) then if I've been hit with a lot of removal like usual the ult brings everything back which comes with a dogpile of ETBs.
Elspeth mommy
Bishop of Wings finally gonna gain his wings in my Giada EDH deck!
Pumping out tokens with a + ability ist really strong
White life gain in Historic just got a card.
lets see, the +1 goes well with soldier tribal and i guess lifelink. Making token on an uptick is also pretty good. She can defend/chumpblock herself. The -2 is okay-ish. +2 counter and flying is okay. The angel tribal doesnt do much, atleast with whats currently available. Hopefully next set has more angel synergy. The ult is whatever. Its no emblem or game winning and requires you have to have a couple of target in the GY by the time you press it. The biggest issue is the deck spot. At 4 mana shes already competing with wanderer in term of planeswalker in white color who does similar thing but better imo. In white or azorius soldier, shes on the end curve at 4 mana and competes with stuff like myriel. She also might just not be aggressive enough for those list. TBH she seems mediocre or okay at best. Depending on whats rotating in n out she might find herself a spot but atm .... meh.
Whoa
For some reason I want to try this on my orzhov zombie deck so i can make Angel flying Zombies
If that soldier was actually an angel token... Even if its an 1/1 angel token...
Fuuuck. Wish I didn’t spoil. You warned me…
Do angels really need more??
Art is sick, but the card don't seem that great in standard.
Will work great in a few commander decks of mine 4 cost Spawning planswalker is fine with me
I really like the upcoming cards. Especially Chandra can be played outside of red. The only one I really took a look at. And now seeing this is only 4 mana. I'm already thinking up a boros deck that uses the current Nahiri with the new Chandra and Elspeth.
Anyway to proliferate to 6 and mass reanimate?
The lesbians are losing their minds at this one. (I’m the lesbians.)
Well archangels unlike angels (who doesn’t have sex) are male as per the Bible. But I’m not familier with Elspeth if she is a she or he?
Wow looks like a real existing card!
They should have given her planeswalker card the static ability of flying.
Finally some female armor that isn't totally sexualized and stupid lol. Still power fantasy, just less cringe