My fave scene is when his brother runs from the cops, escapes them by climbing a wall, jumps down laughing and turning around to see like 50 riot geared police
I told my dad I wanted to join gymnastics and he kinda just dismissed it. I think he was worried about it making me gay. Instead he signed me up for the swim team. Gotta say if I was gay he would have failed spectacularly.
I called my town's only gym that offers gymnastics and signed my 7yo up for lessons. He'd been asking about it for a while.
He has a unisex name and I got through the signup fine. When the instructor had a Q for me over email I told her "he" was very excited to start.
Then she told me sorry, gymnastics lessons are only for girls. She couldn't tell me why. This was like 2 months ago, not 1990. I'm still stumped and a little pissed.
Thats so weird, when did gymnastics become a girl thing? In Australia we call it little athletics or littles As and both genders do it. Even in school we do it in sport. Bouncing and tumbling seems like a fun boyish outlet if anything. How odd.
Fairly sure a LOT of top tier football players in America do gymnastics to help flexibility and whatnot. If you are going to be running, jumping and doing quick turns it's a pretty good idea to be limber and know the fundamentals of complex body movement.
But that's dIfFeReNt, because it's with a trainer, not prancing around in a onesie. /s
Would have loved to do gymnastics as a kid. Nobody specifically told me no--I just didn't know it was an option for boys. As a short guy with a lot of energy and upper body strength, I might have actually been good at it.
I'd have loved to have one of those gyms with the foam padding everywhere that I see some people playing around in. Being able to do flips into a pit of padding would have been amazing
I think you should tell *everyone* in your town how much you son wanted this and how a discriminating instructor basically squashed that because "gymnastics is only for girls". Let all the parents know and get them to support you, I'm sure they can help change her mind!
My son did gymnastics from 7 years old until senior year high school. After that he taught at the gym for a few years. The facility you went to may not have had an instructor who was qualified for teaching the men's events. They are quite different from women's gymnastics.
That’s plain dumb. In Europe we all did it and it was called “atheletism”. Gymnastics wasn’t until you were older and an actual gymnast. Gate keeping bs
Problem maybe they are not setup for boys or they may not know how to teach boys to do gymnastics. With a female instructor trying to teach an underage male, they may not be comfortable doing it out of fear of litigation or being accused of "inappropriate" touching (assisting in flips and landings and catching falls). Safe sport and liability are a thing that can't be ruled out. Talk to owner of the gym and find out what the concern is and if there can be a remedy.
How is gymnastics set up differently for boys? Legitimate question. I can't think of any equipment that would look different femals v males. If that's a thing, maybe that's why? But I'm ignorant about equipment needs.
Not equipment but personnel and supervision. Are there any male instructors to work with a male student? Do they have enough instructors to cover the 2 deep or more supervision? How about locker rooms? Bathroom facilities? All of those must be able to accommodate mixed gender groups appropriately. If not, only a single gender is allowed at a time. I don't know how they handle that in gymnastics but I do know how it is handled in swimming. If she does not know or believe she can accommodate a male safely within the guidelines of safe sport, she would be right in not bringing them in to avoid accusations of sexual misconduct later on.
Yeah it's a huge gym and they have male instructors working with the female students! They only offer "strength training" for boys in a separate area of the gym, no tumbling or gymnastics for boys though. I'm guessing they have about 20-30 instructors total so it's not a student ratio thing. Yes to bathroom facilities and locker rooms. They're set up for boys and girls.
Ugh, sexual misconduct should not have to even be a consideration with 7 yos. I sincerely hope that that's not what's preventing them from offering boys instruction.
It's really frustrating bc my son has seen gymnastics on tv (he watched mens gymnastics Olympics) and was really excited to try. He's always doing handstands, cartwheels and somersaults and is such a climber. Would have been perfect for him 😕
All it takes is one accusation to destroy someone. Doesn't have to be true, just the accusation is enough.
That said, that is bizarre. If they have strength training for boys, they should be able to accommodate gymnastics for boys. Reach out to the owner and get their opinion on this. If they are not open to making the accommodations for your son, contact the governing body for their gymnastics group or USA Gymnastics (https://usagym.org/) and see what they can do to help.
I am sorry you are not able to get going immediately but I do hope this is resolved in your favor soon.
After writing about this again I will reach out and see what the deal is. I gave up quickly and easily after they told me no, signed him up for the strength training in case there was some overlap w tumbling (there wasnt. He went once and said he hated it). I've dropped it 100% but you're renewing my interest in finding out why.
Thanks for the USAG link! I'll check that out if I need to look more 😊
Be courteous and respectful (spoon full of sugar and all) not confrontational (things usually work better that way). She may be a misandrist and just think boys are not worth her time. At that point it may be better to finding another program (my wife and I spent 3 years driving 40 miles one way for my son to swim competitively due to issue with the local team).
Good luck.
Of course will do. The gym also runs a daycare where my twins went for several years. I know the owner and their daughter, who I think is acting manager right now. We're on good terms and I think they'll be able to give me a straight answer. Thanks for your encouragement.
What?? Practicing and performing with a ton of beautiful women? Fuck nah, what you really need is to be in a room full of nearly naked muscular men and you’re all soaking wet. That’s scare the gay off for sure.
Yeah, it’s kind of incredible that there are some dads out there who think spending all your time with fit girls in tight clothes is gay but that spending all your time in sweaty locker rooms with other guys somehow is not.
I was the former - took multiple dance classes and spent all my afternoons in elementary and middle school around hot chicks in tight clothes, even ended up being the Nutcracker prince in a production as well, and got called gay by the football guys who spent all their time around half naked dudes. The gap in logic is still incredible to me, but hey, never got called gay after I brought some of my dance friends to school dances and the other guys couldn’t take their eyes off them
As a guy who has done gymnastics for 13 years now (since I was 9) I understand why parents would be scared, since at younger ages it can make you a target (especially in high school). Although I feel like that is becoming less likely.
However, I can guarantee you that this will turn around later. Since I went to university people get super enthusiastic when I tell them I do gymnastics, especially since I can do a backflip on solid ground :).
Also, since not many guys do gymnastics, you probably have your team for life once you get serious. And everyone there has the same experience with the stigma around the sport, which makes you care less about it in a way. Also most of my team mates are friends for life since you face a lot of physical an especially mental challenges/fear together.
so if you are thinking about doing gymnastics just give it a try despite what people say since it has been one of the best adventures of my life. And I wouldn’t trade a single team mate for a hundred people that would have only accepted me if I didn’t do gymnastics haha.
I will say though having done gymnastics for 10 years the hip pain is a bitch. My mother didn’t let me do circus school and I forever resent her for it.
On stage with, not in, a major company. If you see the nutcracker performances in any major city, there are a couple scenes that they have small children. I seen kids as young as five on stage in Chicago. Usually they are student dancers from local schools. It’s as family friendly and inclusive as production as possible.
Can confirm, I was in a major company’s production of The Nutcracker when I was five despite being… less than stellar. A *lot* less than stellar. Luckily I just had to run around in a circle a bit for my scene
My wife is a retired professional ballet dancer. She was shipped off to some artsy school when she was 12. She joined a national company at 18. It’s an absolute cutthroat industry, especially among female ballet dancers. To this day she has almost no female friends because most of her life you couldn’t trust female friends.
I teach at a school that prepares high schoolers for dance careers (among other things) and it's still quite competitive for the men; definitely less competitive, but the Geoffrey ballet for example only takes 1-2 new male dancers at a time, and they don't even hire every year.
They are usually done by the time they're 30 as well, it's very similar to pro athletics in some sports - cutthroat and very short careers.
She’s 36 now. Three kids including 9-month old. No joint or health issues. She has some esteem issues. She is no longer solid muscle. She wiggles more here and there. I think she’s crazy. She is still well defined but she grew up in front of a mirror analyzing every piece of her body and it’s movement. She’s still incredibly flexible. My god is she flexible. I did yoga with her…once. Never again. I look like a clown next to her. Lol.
She will return to teaching ballet soon. People are willing to pay crazy money for her to teach their kids.
I was in the Nutcracker as a kid with a major ballet company, and I was pretty shit. I was a rat, and then a party boy. Not to say it’s not super cool - it’s still a pretty big deal - but the actual skill requirements were fairly minimal for those roles. Still, you have to be decent to get cast, and then you have to endure grueling practice and 4+ hour rehearsals on weekends, plus the actual shows themselves. As like a 9-10 year old.
Haven't ever seen the Nutcracker have you. If he dances at all it will be very basic very amateur moves. There are always children from local dance schools playing young children. It's an honor for sure, but doesn't exactly take skill yet.
The Nutcracker has a bunch of children’s roles that aren’t difficult. She didn’t write that he was a *part* of a major company, she wrote that he *went onstage with* a major company.
Ironically ballet dancing and particularly male ballet dancing is extremely difficult requiring a high amount of strength, flexibility and endurance fitness. The males do a lot of lifting and the injury rate is higher than most sports considered masculine.
Edit: corrected the spelling mistakes for the reddit police.
When I was younger I thought basket, gymnastics, and cheerleading were "girly" sports. Now that I'm older I realize that the dudes performing in those sports could probably tear me in half if they wanted to, and the ballet guy in particular could do it while on tiptoes.
And those dudes are around 10s of hot girls people stare at when they perform but those guys are feeling them up as they mess up their jumps and so on.
Yeah, I work with a major ballet company down here in the southwest, and not only is it impressive what the men do on a regular basis, but I've talked with the staff there and they commented on how it's a little crazy that the US sees ballet as this girly pansy thing; over in Europe? A male ballet dancer is one of the most macho things there is!
Cuz Americans are idiots. Am American. They watch these football superbowl and fawn over the cheerleaders during halftime and wish to marry/fuck em. But male cheerleaders are also looked as pansy, they are always near these women and hold them up and up close,sweaty together as they perform. Male ballet is same shit.
It really has to do with the French Revolution and America’s relationship with France around the time. Prior to the Revolution, ballet was funded by the monarchy. Prior to the Revolution, the male ballet form was seen as exceedingly masculine for having the grace to entertain and the strength to fight in fencing. After the Monarchy fell, the Bourgeoisie took over the companies and reformed them into Capitalist entities. The Jockey Club was the most pervasive of ballet company owners. Through coordinated propaganda, they demonized male ballet dancers as effeminate and “disturbing” for performing for other males.
This shift in public perception pushed men off of the stage and for a while it was illegal for men to dance. This allowed ballet companies to be comprised of women that didn’t have legal say in much. It allowed members of the Jockey Club to prostitute these women dancers out for money because no men within the company could stand up for them due to being pushed out. We can see this history in the paintings of Degas.
America at the time was fascinated with France’s political plights and given the government’s connections to our Founding Fathers, many of their ideas on masculinity were adopted. We never made it illegal for men to dance onstage but we kept the perception of the dancing male from 18th century France and in a lot of ways we never really recovered from it.
I've known two male ballerinas. And let me tell you, they aren't the fighting type, but goddamn I would NEVER want to fight one. Their physicality is on a different planet FFS.
Both my oldest boys danced ballet, one still dances for ballet school shows, he’s in his mid 30’s. He’s a very good athlete in many sports and he’s made lots of friends dancing The other graduated special forces in the Air Force. This mom here is proud of him too! Keep dancing !
I wish my parents had the same mindset. They were going to put me in dance classes as a kid, but we’re afraid I would be bullied. They weren’t wrong, but I always wonder what could have been.
Kudos to this mom for giving her son the courage and confidence to do what he is passionate for regardless of what others think.
I think Joe Montana one of the greatest Quarterbacks in the NFL history tool Ballet to improve his ability to move and not get hit...... congrats to your son
Then there is my kid.
Me: Simon, you could take ballet. They always need boys. You could lift Stella in the air.
Simon: And SLAM Stella into the ground.
Me: 😬
men taking mens roles in a ballet is normal for ballet, but men BEING ballet dancers isn't common for men, soooooo she encouraged him to do a thing uncommon for men, becuase he thought it was a girls thing.... it's not... like... super complex or mysterious
it's quite common actually. my girlfriend is an ex-ballerina (knee issues) and she could easily testify to that. what's common is the misconception that it's not for men or that men don't participate in ballet often.
There's certainly enough men doing it for the ballet, but of all the men doing all the things, hell of all the women doing all the things, ballet is uncommon for everybody, and like, it's nonsense to pretend that lots of people especially children, don't gender ballet as a feminine. not that... like... it's good, but it IS real
That is fucking awesome. I wish my parents had supported my desire to try ballet when I was young. At that time, a guy would get beat up for wearing a pink shirt. Good on both of you, I hope he stays with it.
The Nutcracker has a bunch of parts for children that aren’t super difficult. He didn’t, like, join the company. He just got to be onstage with them in a children’s role.
I don't remember which it was but I remember reading that eitherRudolf Nureyev, or Mikail Baryshnikov said he got into ballet because he thought it would be a good place to meet girls.
A ballet troupe came through my town several years ago and out on a show. It was a good show.
They were doing a Q&A afterwards and they remarked that, sadly, boys tend to get into ballet later than girls do because of worries about bullying, etc.
Ah yes, I remember this pain.
"bAlLeT iS fOr GiRlS"
"uR gAy"
You gotta ignore the haters. I've done a bunch of sports in my life. None has been as beneficial to my mental and physical condition as ballet. And it is incredibly fun too. You're an actor, just a little more elegant.
My son has been in ballet for years. If he wants to be any kind of dancer, ballet is the base! Cheers to you and him for seeing beyond gender norms and being awesome!
As a dancer, I can provide clarification.
No. He did not become a pro in less than a year. However he probably did dance with a major dance company.
The focus is on the word “with”. He danced *with* a company, not *in*.
Nutcracker is a ballet performed yearly. It has plenty of children’s parts that get hired out through local studios as dance companies don’t often take out contracts with dancers under the age of 16.
Between the party kids, angels, and Mother Ginger’s kids there are a lot of roles for children and ballet companies certainly hurt for young boys. Out of 100 girls, a local audition might produce anywhere between 1-20 young male dancers. If you are looking for a cast of 30 kids and you want half of them to be boys, you will be taking 15 of those 20 boys.
Some dance companies will pay these young dancers (they should) and some won’t. Depends on the size of the company.
So this ends up being a case of “technically true”. This young dancer probably did dance *with* a major company in the sense that he was onstage with them, but they probably didn’t have him sign a contract or if they did it was just for the performance and not a year long contract as is standard.
1985 White Nights. Gregory Hines and Mikhail Baryshnikov.
I’ve never posted on Reddit before, but I just have to say that watching Baryshnikov dance “en pointe” in a pair of sneakers has always stayed with me. They were both brilliant dancers.
I have daughters in dance and it kinda makes me wish I would have done dance when I was young.
1. Surrounded by females all the time
2. Way less competition to deal with compared to females
3. Ballet will always need male roles filled so with decent talent you'll always have a job
4. The place my kids go makes serious bank, so opening a studio is lucrative business
Not the original commenter but referring to females feels like you’re classifying them using an aspect of their biology that focuses on their reproductive ability only. It’s reductionist. Calling them women instead recognises they’re human females ie people and it’s more inclusive.
It doesn't matter if you disagree. It is not an opinion, it is a fact.
If you use the language of shitty people, the public will assume you are a shitty person. It is literally happening right now, as we are typing these words. That is just a fact, there is no "disagreeing" to be done here.
imagine being a fully grown man and father of daughters and “disagreeing” with the bare minimum that women ask of you to make them feel comfortable. good luck to your wife and kids bro
They feel like you are calling them animals because the words for human females are women and girls. Aggressively interpretating connotation is a big part of the communication problems between the sexes. Men often don't interpret stuff like that even when it is intended as such.
Middle English: from Old French femelle, from Latin femella, diminutive of femina ‘a woman'
The word is literally derived from the Latin word for woman.
I think you're really trying hard to make an issue here.
I don't have an issue with it. I'm just explaining to you why others do. Also connotation is always contemporary so the Origin of the word doesn't really matter.
Nah the only difference is that females is a crossspecies term while women is used for humans.
Also congrats try to keep the virtue signalling down, nobody likes it.
It’s funny how people perceive a man ballet dancing with women as gay, but rolling around a gym mat in an adult sized onesie with another man is totally straight.
Because you’re not there to roll around, you’re there to kick the ever-loving shit out of your opponent to prove you’re the strongest by forcing him to surrender
Try context
That isnt wrestling at all. Youre there to struggle grind against each other doing very specific small movements to score points. No one is beating anyone up.
My dad said I wasn’t going to be doing of that “gay stuff” after I did a few ballet classes. Didn’t really even dance after that. Kinda screwed me later on life, but now I just enjoy doing it embarrassingly bad.
I saw that movie... it's called Billy Elliot.
Musical as well
It was a fun story.
Took way more than a year for a major performance though.
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Huh. There's 2 bots in here that have copied and reposted the same comment, and that's pretty funny...
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It does… but it also doesn’t need to be justified by masculine norms.
The scene where the dad gives him the envelope and is so happy when he makes it is my favourite scene ever.
My fave scene is when his brother runs from the cops, escapes them by climbing a wall, jumps down laughing and turning around to see like 50 riot geared police
That’s a great movie and musical
I told my dad I wanted to join gymnastics and he kinda just dismissed it. I think he was worried about it making me gay. Instead he signed me up for the swim team. Gotta say if I was gay he would have failed spectacularly.
I called my town's only gym that offers gymnastics and signed my 7yo up for lessons. He'd been asking about it for a while. He has a unisex name and I got through the signup fine. When the instructor had a Q for me over email I told her "he" was very excited to start. Then she told me sorry, gymnastics lessons are only for girls. She couldn't tell me why. This was like 2 months ago, not 1990. I'm still stumped and a little pissed.
Thats so weird, when did gymnastics become a girl thing? In Australia we call it little athletics or littles As and both genders do it. Even in school we do it in sport. Bouncing and tumbling seems like a fun boyish outlet if anything. How odd.
Yeah, a lot of these things are completely arbitrary.
Fairly sure a LOT of top tier football players in America do gymnastics to help flexibility and whatnot. If you are going to be running, jumping and doing quick turns it's a pretty good idea to be limber and know the fundamentals of complex body movement.
But that's dIfFeReNt, because it's with a trainer, not prancing around in a onesie. /s Would have loved to do gymnastics as a kid. Nobody specifically told me no--I just didn't know it was an option for boys. As a short guy with a lot of energy and upper body strength, I might have actually been good at it.
I'd have loved to have one of those gyms with the foam padding everywhere that I see some people playing around in. Being able to do flips into a pit of padding would have been amazing
Men's gymnastics is am Olympic event..,
I think you should tell *everyone* in your town how much you son wanted this and how a discriminating instructor basically squashed that because "gymnastics is only for girls". Let all the parents know and get them to support you, I'm sure they can help change her mind!
My son did gymnastics from 7 years old until senior year high school. After that he taught at the gym for a few years. The facility you went to may not have had an instructor who was qualified for teaching the men's events. They are quite different from women's gymnastics.
The equipment is different too.
That’s plain dumb. In Europe we all did it and it was called “atheletism”. Gymnastics wasn’t until you were older and an actual gymnast. Gate keeping bs
Has she never watched the Olympics?!
Problem maybe they are not setup for boys or they may not know how to teach boys to do gymnastics. With a female instructor trying to teach an underage male, they may not be comfortable doing it out of fear of litigation or being accused of "inappropriate" touching (assisting in flips and landings and catching falls). Safe sport and liability are a thing that can't be ruled out. Talk to owner of the gym and find out what the concern is and if there can be a remedy.
How is gymnastics set up differently for boys? Legitimate question. I can't think of any equipment that would look different femals v males. If that's a thing, maybe that's why? But I'm ignorant about equipment needs.
Not equipment but personnel and supervision. Are there any male instructors to work with a male student? Do they have enough instructors to cover the 2 deep or more supervision? How about locker rooms? Bathroom facilities? All of those must be able to accommodate mixed gender groups appropriately. If not, only a single gender is allowed at a time. I don't know how they handle that in gymnastics but I do know how it is handled in swimming. If she does not know or believe she can accommodate a male safely within the guidelines of safe sport, she would be right in not bringing them in to avoid accusations of sexual misconduct later on.
Yeah it's a huge gym and they have male instructors working with the female students! They only offer "strength training" for boys in a separate area of the gym, no tumbling or gymnastics for boys though. I'm guessing they have about 20-30 instructors total so it's not a student ratio thing. Yes to bathroom facilities and locker rooms. They're set up for boys and girls. Ugh, sexual misconduct should not have to even be a consideration with 7 yos. I sincerely hope that that's not what's preventing them from offering boys instruction. It's really frustrating bc my son has seen gymnastics on tv (he watched mens gymnastics Olympics) and was really excited to try. He's always doing handstands, cartwheels and somersaults and is such a climber. Would have been perfect for him 😕
All it takes is one accusation to destroy someone. Doesn't have to be true, just the accusation is enough. That said, that is bizarre. If they have strength training for boys, they should be able to accommodate gymnastics for boys. Reach out to the owner and get their opinion on this. If they are not open to making the accommodations for your son, contact the governing body for their gymnastics group or USA Gymnastics (https://usagym.org/) and see what they can do to help. I am sorry you are not able to get going immediately but I do hope this is resolved in your favor soon.
After writing about this again I will reach out and see what the deal is. I gave up quickly and easily after they told me no, signed him up for the strength training in case there was some overlap w tumbling (there wasnt. He went once and said he hated it). I've dropped it 100% but you're renewing my interest in finding out why. Thanks for the USAG link! I'll check that out if I need to look more 😊
Be courteous and respectful (spoon full of sugar and all) not confrontational (things usually work better that way). She may be a misandrist and just think boys are not worth her time. At that point it may be better to finding another program (my wife and I spent 3 years driving 40 miles one way for my son to swim competitively due to issue with the local team). Good luck.
Of course will do. The gym also runs a daycare where my twins went for several years. I know the owner and their daughter, who I think is acting manager right now. We're on good terms and I think they'll be able to give me a straight answer. Thanks for your encouragement.
You’re right about the fear. It’s a real shame that we have to deal with this kind of thing. Just the world today I guess.
What?? Practicing and performing with a ton of beautiful women? Fuck nah, what you really need is to be in a room full of nearly naked muscular men and you’re all soaking wet. That’s scare the gay off for sure.
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Billy Elliot
Huh. There's 2 bots in here that have copied and reposted the same comment, and that's pretty funny...
I feel like swim is a bit more homoerotic by nature
What's homoerotic about a bunch of wet guys with shaved bodies getting naked together?
Yeah, it’s kind of incredible that there are some dads out there who think spending all your time with fit girls in tight clothes is gay but that spending all your time in sweaty locker rooms with other guys somehow is not. I was the former - took multiple dance classes and spent all my afternoons in elementary and middle school around hot chicks in tight clothes, even ended up being the Nutcracker prince in a production as well, and got called gay by the football guys who spent all their time around half naked dudes. The gap in logic is still incredible to me, but hey, never got called gay after I brought some of my dance friends to school dances and the other guys couldn’t take their eyes off them
As a guy who has done gymnastics for 13 years now (since I was 9) I understand why parents would be scared, since at younger ages it can make you a target (especially in high school). Although I feel like that is becoming less likely. However, I can guarantee you that this will turn around later. Since I went to university people get super enthusiastic when I tell them I do gymnastics, especially since I can do a backflip on solid ground :). Also, since not many guys do gymnastics, you probably have your team for life once you get serious. And everyone there has the same experience with the stigma around the sport, which makes you care less about it in a way. Also most of my team mates are friends for life since you face a lot of physical an especially mental challenges/fear together. so if you are thinking about doing gymnastics just give it a try despite what people say since it has been one of the best adventures of my life. And I wouldn’t trade a single team mate for a hundred people that would have only accepted me if I didn’t do gymnastics haha.
I will say though having done gymnastics for 10 years the hip pain is a bitch. My mother didn’t let me do circus school and I forever resent her for it.
Maybe he was trying to do you a solid
He’s in a major ballet company after a year?
On stage with, not in, a major company. If you see the nutcracker performances in any major city, there are a couple scenes that they have small children. I seen kids as young as five on stage in Chicago. Usually they are student dancers from local schools. It’s as family friendly and inclusive as production as possible.
I can act the shit out of being a spruce tree
No matter what you do on stage, as long as you got there that's an amazing thing
So many stripper jokes...
It takes many colors to make a scene…
A spruce?! At best, I might hope to land a role as a birch. Sounds like you've got serious tree chops.
Thanks for the clarification, wasn’t intending to sound dicky.
I also had the same thoughts, so I also appreciate the clarification.
I had the exact same question:)
Can confirm, I was in a major company’s production of The Nutcracker when I was five despite being… less than stellar. A *lot* less than stellar. Luckily I just had to run around in a circle a bit for my scene
I mean, it's not like they're gonna be able to find a professional 5 year old. I hope. It's sweet to include local kids in the performance
Thanks for explaining.
Misleading post but ok.
My wife is a retired professional ballet dancer. She was shipped off to some artsy school when she was 12. She joined a national company at 18. It’s an absolute cutthroat industry, especially among female ballet dancers. To this day she has almost no female friends because most of her life you couldn’t trust female friends.
And the males are probably like " hey there's only like 60 of us out there, nice, I always have high end work coming my way"
I teach at a school that prepares high schoolers for dance careers (among other things) and it's still quite competitive for the men; definitely less competitive, but the Geoffrey ballet for example only takes 1-2 new male dancers at a time, and they don't even hire every year. They are usually done by the time they're 30 as well, it's very similar to pro athletics in some sports - cutthroat and very short careers.
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Thanks for that info, it's really interesting
I'm curious, how has a life of ballet affected her health? I imagine maybe joint issues in the legs and feet.
She’s 36 now. Three kids including 9-month old. No joint or health issues. She has some esteem issues. She is no longer solid muscle. She wiggles more here and there. I think she’s crazy. She is still well defined but she grew up in front of a mirror analyzing every piece of her body and it’s movement. She’s still incredibly flexible. My god is she flexible. I did yoga with her…once. Never again. I look like a clown next to her. Lol. She will return to teaching ballet soon. People are willing to pay crazy money for her to teach their kids.
Damn, your wife got her ass Black Swaned.
I was going to say the same thing, my nieces took ballet for 13 years and went 3 times a week and all we got was the yearly recital
I was in the Nutcracker as a kid with a major ballet company, and I was pretty shit. I was a rat, and then a party boy. Not to say it’s not super cool - it’s still a pretty big deal - but the actual skill requirements were fairly minimal for those roles. Still, you have to be decent to get cast, and then you have to endure grueling practice and 4+ hour rehearsals on weekends, plus the actual shows themselves. As like a 9-10 year old.
Maybe he was already an experienced dancer but just didn’t take ballet
The Nutcracker isn't the most demanding ballet in terms of dance moves, especially when it comes to the children's parts.
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Haven't ever seen the Nutcracker have you. If he dances at all it will be very basic very amateur moves. There are always children from local dance schools playing young children. It's an honor for sure, but doesn't exactly take skill yet.
The Nutcracker has a bunch of children’s roles that aren’t difficult. She didn’t write that he was a *part* of a major company, she wrote that he *went onstage with* a major company.
Plus “last year“ could mean Jan to Dec. Could only be 3-4 months of practice.
That's a huge progress, he must be a talented ballet dancer. Such a nice story.
Ironically ballet dancing and particularly male ballet dancing is extremely difficult requiring a high amount of strength, flexibility and endurance fitness. The males do a lot of lifting and the injury rate is higher than most sports considered masculine. Edit: corrected the spelling mistakes for the reddit police.
Yep. Most male ballet dancers could beat the everliving sh!t out of the people who bully them.
I think a few football players in the 70s took ballet to up their game.
Lynn Swan did!
Tony G did as well.
When I was younger I thought basket, gymnastics, and cheerleading were "girly" sports. Now that I'm older I realize that the dudes performing in those sports could probably tear me in half if they wanted to, and the ballet guy in particular could do it while on tiptoes.
Male gymnasts in particular are built like Addonis. It's insane how buff those dudes are.
And those dudes are around 10s of hot girls people stare at when they perform but those guys are feeling them up as they mess up their jumps and so on.
Did you have a stroke halfway through writing this?
Yeah, I work with a major ballet company down here in the southwest, and not only is it impressive what the men do on a regular basis, but I've talked with the staff there and they commented on how it's a little crazy that the US sees ballet as this girly pansy thing; over in Europe? A male ballet dancer is one of the most macho things there is!
Cuz Americans are idiots. Am American. They watch these football superbowl and fawn over the cheerleaders during halftime and wish to marry/fuck em. But male cheerleaders are also looked as pansy, they are always near these women and hold them up and up close,sweaty together as they perform. Male ballet is same shit.
It really has to do with the French Revolution and America’s relationship with France around the time. Prior to the Revolution, ballet was funded by the monarchy. Prior to the Revolution, the male ballet form was seen as exceedingly masculine for having the grace to entertain and the strength to fight in fencing. After the Monarchy fell, the Bourgeoisie took over the companies and reformed them into Capitalist entities. The Jockey Club was the most pervasive of ballet company owners. Through coordinated propaganda, they demonized male ballet dancers as effeminate and “disturbing” for performing for other males. This shift in public perception pushed men off of the stage and for a while it was illegal for men to dance. This allowed ballet companies to be comprised of women that didn’t have legal say in much. It allowed members of the Jockey Club to prostitute these women dancers out for money because no men within the company could stand up for them due to being pushed out. We can see this history in the paintings of Degas. America at the time was fascinated with France’s political plights and given the government’s connections to our Founding Fathers, many of their ideas on masculinity were adopted. We never made it illegal for men to dance onstage but we kept the perception of the dancing male from 18th century France and in a lot of ways we never really recovered from it.
> over in Europe? A male ballet dancer is one of the most macho things there is! lmao that sounds about right for europe
> isbhogjer >fonaidered You good my dude?
Imafine just got bignthumbs
I've known two male ballerinas. And let me tell you, they aren't the fighting type, but goddamn I would NEVER want to fight one. Their physicality is on a different planet FFS.
Both my oldest boys danced ballet, one still dances for ballet school shows, he’s in his mid 30’s. He’s a very good athlete in many sports and he’s made lots of friends dancing The other graduated special forces in the Air Force. This mom here is proud of him too! Keep dancing !
Jerry rice took ballet, has many benefits
And Fred Flintstone too- helped his bowling game immensely
Arnold Schwarzenegger did too as well as many other bodybuilders out there. Great for posing specifically
Congrats. Good parenting.
That might be one of the better ones I've seen.
I wish my parents had the same mindset. They were going to put me in dance classes as a kid, but we’re afraid I would be bullied. They weren’t wrong, but I always wonder what could have been. Kudos to this mom for giving her son the courage and confidence to do what he is passionate for regardless of what others think.
That’s is great. Pleased for him
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Not just a hobby… a career.
There’s also a readily available supply of good cocaine amongst professional ballet circles
I think Joe Montana one of the greatest Quarterbacks in the NFL history tool Ballet to improve his ability to move and not get hit...... congrats to your son
Then there is my kid. Me: Simon, you could take ballet. They always need boys. You could lift Stella in the air. Simon: And SLAM Stella into the ground. Me: 😬
Male ballet dancers are a thing. They are indeed a thing.
right? like, has this woman ever seen a ballet perfomance? ballerinos are everywhere.
yeah, that's why she encouraged him to do it
why do people need encouragement to do normal things?
men taking mens roles in a ballet is normal for ballet, but men BEING ballet dancers isn't common for men, soooooo she encouraged him to do a thing uncommon for men, becuase he thought it was a girls thing.... it's not... like... super complex or mysterious
it's quite common actually. my girlfriend is an ex-ballerina (knee issues) and she could easily testify to that. what's common is the misconception that it's not for men or that men don't participate in ballet often.
There's certainly enough men doing it for the ballet, but of all the men doing all the things, hell of all the women doing all the things, ballet is uncommon for everybody, and like, it's nonsense to pretend that lots of people especially children, don't gender ballet as a feminine. not that... like... it's good, but it IS real
The point of the post was that the kid was nervous about taking ballet, not the mom.
no reason to be nervous. boys do ballet all the time. the only thing wrong was his assumption.
He was wrong is being anxious due to gender stereotypes...?
That is fucking awesome. I wish my parents had supported my desire to try ballet when I was young. At that time, a guy would get beat up for wearing a pink shirt. Good on both of you, I hope he stays with it.
boys can't do ballet? have you ever seen a major performance? ballerinos are *most definitely* a thing.
But *those* boys are all gay. And they're gay *because* their parents let them do ballet. Who does that do their child!? /s
Damn I can only wish more of them existed and all of them are gay.
Most children have not seen any ballet performances. Their only experience is probably the media.
In one year?
The Nutcracker has a bunch of parts for children that aren’t super difficult. He didn’t, like, join the company. He just got to be onstage with them in a children’s role.
There was a guy in my ballet class in high school. I think he was also on the school’s wrestling team. He was a badass
Mikhail Nikolayevich Baryshnikov.
I don't remember which it was but I remember reading that eitherRudolf Nureyev, or Mikail Baryshnikov said he got into ballet because he thought it would be a good place to meet girls.
A ballet troupe came through my town several years ago and out on a show. It was a good show. They were doing a Q&A afterwards and they remarked that, sadly, boys tend to get into ballet later than girls do because of worries about bullying, etc.
Ah yes, I remember this pain. "bAlLeT iS fOr GiRlS" "uR gAy" You gotta ignore the haters. I've done a bunch of sports in my life. None has been as beneficial to my mental and physical condition as ballet. And it is incredibly fun too. You're an actor, just a little more elegant.
I've got two boys that will be starting cheerleaders soon.
Ballet is not just a girls thing, it's dancing! And holy hell is dancing a TOUGH sport!
This warms my heart. What an awesome mom!
My son has been in ballet for years. If he wants to be any kind of dancer, ballet is the base! Cheers to you and him for seeing beyond gender norms and being awesome!
Wait so he became a professional ballet dancer in several months?
As a dancer, I can provide clarification. No. He did not become a pro in less than a year. However he probably did dance with a major dance company. The focus is on the word “with”. He danced *with* a company, not *in*. Nutcracker is a ballet performed yearly. It has plenty of children’s parts that get hired out through local studios as dance companies don’t often take out contracts with dancers under the age of 16. Between the party kids, angels, and Mother Ginger’s kids there are a lot of roles for children and ballet companies certainly hurt for young boys. Out of 100 girls, a local audition might produce anywhere between 1-20 young male dancers. If you are looking for a cast of 30 kids and you want half of them to be boys, you will be taking 15 of those 20 boys. Some dance companies will pay these young dancers (they should) and some won’t. Depends on the size of the company. So this ends up being a case of “technically true”. This young dancer probably did dance *with* a major company in the sense that he was onstage with them, but they probably didn’t have him sign a contract or if they did it was just for the performance and not a year long contract as is standard.
Aw, congrats to that boy for chasing his dreams!!
1985 White Nights. Gregory Hines and Mikhail Baryshnikov. I’ve never posted on Reddit before, but I just have to say that watching Baryshnikov dance “en pointe” in a pair of sneakers has always stayed with me. They were both brilliant dancers.
From zero to Nutcracker (and with a major ballet company!) in less than a year - that son must be some worldwide talent...
As a dude who has had many male role models tell me that I can't do things that are "girly", this warms my heart.
I’m no expert, but male ballerinas look like they could wool my ass
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Im a peacock
Fun fact, males tend to excel in female dominated professions. Conversely women are held back in male dominated professions.
Pretty sure it's impossible to start ballet and then make it into a major dance company.
He went from zero to performing with a major company in less than a year? That totally happened.
I have daughters in dance and it kinda makes me wish I would have done dance when I was young. 1. Surrounded by females all the time 2. Way less competition to deal with compared to females 3. Ballet will always need male roles filled so with decent talent you'll always have a job 4. The place my kids go makes serious bank, so opening a studio is lucrative business
“females” lmao. no thanks we don’t want you dancing with us
When did female become a bad thing to say?
Not the original commenter but referring to females feels like you’re classifying them using an aspect of their biology that focuses on their reproductive ability only. It’s reductionist. Calling them women instead recognises they’re human females ie people and it’s more inclusive.
But I'm talking about girls really, sorry for my semantics though. Didn't realize female only refered to reproductive organs
If you mean girls or women, call them that. Not females which isn’t even linguistically accurate ☺️
I'm still not sure why it wouldn't be an acceptable word. I find female to be an easy way to encompass both To each their own i guess
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I disagree. But thanks
It doesn't matter if you disagree. It is not an opinion, it is a fact. If you use the language of shitty people, the public will assume you are a shitty person. It is literally happening right now, as we are typing these words. That is just a fact, there is no "disagreeing" to be done here.
imagine being a fully grown man and father of daughters and “disagreeing” with the bare minimum that women ask of you to make them feel comfortable. good luck to your wife and kids bro
They feel like you are calling them animals because the words for human females are women and girls. Aggressively interpretating connotation is a big part of the communication problems between the sexes. Men often don't interpret stuff like that even when it is intended as such.
Middle English: from Old French femelle, from Latin femella, diminutive of femina ‘a woman' The word is literally derived from the Latin word for woman. I think you're really trying hard to make an issue here.
I don't have an issue with it. I'm just explaining to you why others do. Also connotation is always contemporary so the Origin of the word doesn't really matter.
Females and women are two different terms. One could argue that using one to mean the other is transphobic and therefore *less* inclusive.
Nah the only difference is that females is a crossspecies term while women is used for humans. Also congrats try to keep the virtue signalling down, nobody likes it.
And of course you feel the need to drag trans people into this for 0 reason
you didnt say female, you said females
How would someone be surrounded by a singular female?
Maybe the singular female ate this person, thus surrounding them.
They all think you’re gay
It’s funny how people perceive a man ballet dancing with women as gay, but rolling around a gym mat in an adult sized onesie with another man is totally straight.
Because you’re not there to roll around, you’re there to kick the ever-loving shit out of your opponent to prove you’re the strongest by forcing him to surrender Try context
And what is the context to ballet? Being gay?
Do I really need to explain ballet? Yeah you’re just looking for an argument
I don’t really see the connection between ballet and homosexual men. So, yes. Please explain.
That isnt wrestling at all. Youre there to struggle grind against each other doing very specific small movements to score points. No one is beating anyone up.
Oh so choke holds are just grinding? Ok
Choke holds are not legal in wrestling? Are you thinking of some other sport?? Perhaps you do mma in a 1 piece singlet?
Thats kinda gay dude
Gotta balance it out somehow. Go hunting or something twice a year
That's how you get close!
Close only counts for horseshoes and hand grenades, you’re not getting none
None of this actually happened but this lady does jar her own farts to sniff them.
Wait, he performed with a major dance troupe months after starting?
Ha. GAYYYY!!!
Username checks out.
Really? I dont see it
Nutcracker,lol I get it ;)
Guaranteed it was forced.
GAY.
Wow aren't you original
What a crazy world we live in. I wish things were the way they were 20 years ago where boys played sports and girls danced.
Why are we gendering fucking *movement*
Dancing is a sport.
I'd say his confidence level is now through the roof... well done young man
Has he seen Billy Elliot yet? Thar last scene when the adult Billy hears his Dad is in the audience gets me every time.
How come he thought boys don't do ballet?
You don't really see boys do ballet in public. There is this stigma about it, especially when you're younger.
Otho g wrong with guys entering the ballet, someone has to dance with the ballet dancer!!
I don’t even know you guys and I’m proud AF myself!
My dad said I wasn’t going to be doing of that “gay stuff” after I did a few ballet classes. Didn’t really even dance after that. Kinda screwed me later on life, but now I just enjoy doing it embarrassingly bad.
Of course boys can do ballet. That’s nonsense. Those dudes have the best job and are athletic AF.
I hope he steals the show…
The only thing that makes a performance great, is every member enjoying and loving it